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that is character development, in Captain America 1 captain would have signed the accords but after Winter Soldier he does not trust any government. in Iron Man 1 Tony would have never signed any kind of accord but after the events of Avengers and the Winter Soldier, he is now ready to sign the Treaty because of his own guilt.
@Emad Raza I’m not talking about who’s right! I’m just saying, Characters in the MCU are not stationary, they keep evolving like humans, that is the only reason why they are still successfully making stuff.
@@rachit1042 I don’t think she was saying who’s right or wrong; I believe Elizabeth was referring to the character development that you mentioned in detail. She even said, “that’s really interesting 👌”
In my opinion, the movie doesn't carry the title Avengers because it's not about the team coming together dealing with a big threat. It's an internal conflict with Steve as the unifying center of it all. That's why it's a Captain America movie. That said, many fans call it Avengers 2.5
The reason I always considered that it was a "Captain America" movie was because if you took away the storyline about the Accords and the Avengers dispute, the rest of the movie was entirely about Cap. Bucky being framed, Cap tracking him down in Bucharest to defend him, him finding out about the other Winter Soldiers, traveling to Siberia to learn the truth about them...
It’s an Avengers plot but it’s a Captain America narrative. It’s only Cap (and Falcon) who oppose the Accords while the others are pro-accords or undecided. And the rest of the movie like you said is all about Bucky being framed.
God, I love this movie, even to this day. The Russo brothers do action filming (in any genre) the best, hands down. Plus, the Russo's (plus the writers) making Bucky the pivot point for this movie was just such a great story and directorial direction to go. Honestly, probably my favorite MCU movie
AGREED! I’m (1.) Infinity War (2.) Civil War (3.) Winter Soldier (4.) Black Panther (5.) probably Endgame? I don’t really have a 5th spot I can settle on. . .
The point of the movie is to show that both sides are right and wrong, and they set it up from the start. Tony's guilt, arrogance and conflicting emotions in regards to his parents, then Steve's self-righteousness, uncompromising atitude and inability to let go of the past. Steve - Crossbones (Rumlow) mentioned Bucky and Steve immediately froze and failed to see what Rumlow was up to, putting Wanda in a lose-lose situation where it was either save the people on the ground or send the blast up except it went off before it cleared the building. Penny, Steve's last link to his past dies, which makes him blindly latch onto Bucky whenever he arises. Black Widow asks Steve to let them handle it and they'd bring him in alive, that he'd only make things worse (which he did) but he doesn't listen, saying that Bucky was his responsibility. Note his justification. Steve ditches the Avengers altogether and goes rogue, so blinded by Bucky that he doesn't even think to question or investigate, falling right into Zemo's trap. Him knowing that Bucky killed Tony's parents and not telling him in order to spare both himself and Bucky. This is the setup for Steve's special brand of arrogance and self-righteousness, made evident by Rhodey, who is a soldier as well, calling him out as being arrogant. Tony - The holographic scene between Tony and his parents, then the mother blaming him for her son's death immediately make Tony want to redeem himself and deal with his guilt via oversight. There are also the issues in his relationship with Pepper, where his work as an Avenger seems to be the problem. Tony's ego, fear and guilt over all that's happened and the tremendous amount of civilian loss make Ross's offer all the more appealing and an easy fix to his issues. Steve was right when he said Tony wanted to surrender responsibility for their actions. Then again, Tony is not a soldier and the extreme loss of life when they engage in a fight seems to be too much for him to handle. Remember what he did when he found out his weapons were being used for terrorism. Then Tony begins to cross lines like putting Wanda (the youngest member in the Avengers who's taking the heat for Steve's mistake) under house arrest. The movie is a clash of ideals. Accountability vs freedom, and figuring out where one ends and the other begins. Tony and Steve happened to stand on opposite ends of the spectrum, and through their own biases, flaws and emotional ties, were unable to find middle ground.
Thanks for this comment. This is literally what I figured in this movie which is why I’m not on either of them and it also explains why it’s my favourite movie.
I love this reply. Plus, we also know Steve is a character of great integrity. My thing has always been sign the accords to shut up the govt, but when it comes down to it they can't stop the Avengers from doing whatever needs to be done (strength, power, & wit on their side lol). However that's where it all falls apart. Cap couldn't live with himself if he were to sign something he knows he won't uphold - he's a man of his word. Tony could care less what jerks (the govt, not civilians like Alfre Woodard's character) think of him, as long as he knows what he's doing will save people. Both crossed lines in this movie (Tony with Wanda's house arrest & Steve with the Winter Soldier secret), which makes the audience all the more conflicted between the two sides
@@candykane6480 What's curious is that most people take Steve's side and fail to see the point of this movie. Not to mention, Steve Rogers is a man of great integrity but he's not infallible or flawless. Steve believes himself to be morally superior and has very traditional American values (like the uncompromising approach to freedom to the point it skirts accountability), which gives him a very peculiar brand of arrogance. I love that Rhodey was actually the only one to point out how arrogant some of his stances are.
I loved Infinity War and Endgame, I loved No Way Home, but for me, my favorite two movies are Winter Soldier and Civil War. They're just amazing. It's because even though there's plenty of action, the conflict is a lot more mental. Idk these two are my favs. I just love Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes, they're two of my favs.
There is so much action in this films. Stan Lee’s cameos are priceless. Aqeel. FYI:During the post credits with Black Panther and Captain America, that was a statue of a black panther. This was a Captain American movie, also introductions to characters Black Panther, Ant-Man, and Spider-Man. Leading to their origin stories. R.I.P. Chadwick Bozeman & R.I.P. Stan Lee
It was so much fun to see all the other superheroes in this movie when it was actually released because people didn’t know who they were going to see…excitement in marvel movies is on next level
Tony signed to help himself sleep better at night. Throughout the entire movie, Tony kept saying things like “articles can be amended.” He broke the accords when he put his suit on in the helicopter. He himself doesn’t even believe the accords as much as he puts out.
And yet if cap would’ve just had a conversation with Tony he would’ve believed him instead of listening to Sam , Tony found out everything himself in seconds lol so many things could’ve been avoided.
Elizabeth Izaguirre Tony wasn’t willing to listen at the airport. Once Steve was getting to the point, Tony interrupted and said “I don’t have time for this.” called “Underoos”, and everything spiralled out of control because Tony couldn’t be patient.
@@Jisungs.moving.castle Well if Cap and his team surrendered and while in custody explained what was actually happening, then the whole fight could’ve been avoided. Think about it, if Cap, bucky, and Tony showed up to face Zemo later, what would Zemo have done differently that would’ve been worse than if they gone earlier? Nothing, he would’ve waited. But Cap insisted on conflict and doing his own thing instead of sitting down and talking.
Steve was 100% right. Most people who takes Tony's side just regurgitate what Tony is saying without explaining why it's good for bad. That's because they can't, it comes from an emotional perspective so the argument falls apart. But you guys broke down exactly why Cap is right and are awesome for it 😍 Putting power in the hands of people who have agendas leads to corruption. Trying to make someone give up their values and coerce them into signing something just because Tony says theyll "deal with the issues as they come" is irresponsible and toxic And the proof here being that they're gonna do what they want regardless, why force someone to sign something that they don't want when you aren't gonna follow it either? What looks worse? Not signing something, or signing something and then going back on it? If we stop to think about who is actually right in terms of morality, individuality, freedom, and logic.. it's Steve. If you want to think who's right in terms of the "feel goods" then I guess Tony is right but that's bass ackwards. I said what I said 💁🏿♀️🤷🏿♀️
I don't know. I agree partly. I'm a huge Cap fan. You're saying Tony is just arguing emotionally right? I always felt that Tony was right on some level and not just emotionally. Yes emotionally he was a disaster. And he was wrong about Bucky. But if they didn't sign the accords, all the countries that are a part of the UN will force them to retire. And forcing them to retire is impossible. What they'd actually do is name them Vigilantes. And terrorists. And they'd all have to go into hiding. It's not the US. It's the UN. This also means they'd try to confiscate all Iron man suits, probably including vision. They won't be successful because Tony is stronger and smarter and it's impossible to get hold of Vision. But it will lead to more conflict, more loss. But it also means that they won't be able to fight battles like they did in the beginning of this very movie. In bright day light. 15 seconds into the fight, they'd probably be surrounded by forces, helicopters etc. Irrespective of which country. As long as it's a part of the UN, they'd be armed and ready to arrest them. They'd be in constant hiding. Running. Let's not be arrogant saying they're the Avengers. Let's think practically? They're not gonna be together all the time to be strong. They're obviously gonna go into hiding and still have normal casual moments, without being on guard all the time. People like Hawkeye, iron man and black widow, have easy weak points that could be hurt. Hell, even captain, black panther and falcon were caught almost immediately. They'd be forced to surrender and we saw them in prison cells. I don't think they'd be successful being vigilantes for very long, especially when it's the United Nations. Yes if it's just American government, maybe Tony can still override it. But it's the UN. When all the countries ask you to sign something, you atleast think about it and work into it. Like Rhodey says. It was incredibly arrogant of Cap to assume they don't have to sign the accords. It's kind of a slap to the governments that lost property, the people that lost lives. I also think Cap protected Wanda because she saved his life, which caused the whole loss of lives in the early movie. Yes he feels responsible for her. Also Cap this entire movie acted based on emotions too. I don't understand why people think Tony was the only emotional guy. I think Tony had the smarter choice. They were clearly backed into a corner. You can be ethical and say i won't sign in something I don't believe in, like cap. Or be Tony. And be smart? Sign the Accords but still work it to your benefits. And that's exactly what Tony did. He signed it yet still did whatever the hell he wanted. The solution was in the middle and Cap abandoned the Team to save his friend. (Which is something I would've done too) but cap always said that if we lose, we'll do that together. Didn't he?) He definitely wasn't acting on everybody's best interest. He's going more rogue by the day and we all know why. Even tho cap was doing the right thing by protecting Bucky, doesn't mean he had a practical solution. I'm always Team cap. But this movie i was genuinely torn and i choose Iron man. If they're the mightiest heroes, they can clearly workout a way to do things their way. Negotiation. Was key. Cap wasn't negotiating. He was arrogant and selfish this movie. And i love that man so much. It's only human of him
@@dhairiyasundar1285 I strongly disagree that Tony had the smarter choice. If you're being coerced into signing something, that should spark red flags right away. Let's break it down like this, we know that Tony violates the accords anyways by doing his own thing (the whole reason he had to hide from the general). Soo he had no issue breaking it when necessity calls. So by that logic everything you just stated that would happen, would happen regardless when the Avengers need to act out of necessity and don't have the go ahead to do so. The difference here with Cap is you maintain your integrity and values. Also if the UN can't come to the table and talk alternatives rather than saying "it's this document or your enemies" then that's foolish. And if they manage to convince world leaders and civilians that the Avengers are bad based off of this, then that all the more fits the description of corruption. Making Cap even more right 😂 so 🤷🏿♀️🤷🏿♀️🤷🏿♀️
@@dhairiyasundar1285 Yeah I agree with this take. In this particular instance, it played out where in this movie Cap was correct. As the viewer we know that the avengers are good people. But if there ever was corruption among the Avengers, is Tony or Ross wrong in saying there needs to be oversight in order to stop that corruption? In a general view, Cap was right, only because in this instance it played out that way. Like the person I’m replying to said, if the entirety of the Avengers didn’t agree to sign, they’d be marked as vigilantes if not terrorists, and the governments of the world would look to hunt them down, which incites more conflict. In my opinion, both Tony and Cap were right. Cap was right in general that the Avengers need to be able to make their own decisions for the greater good. Tony was right that in that particular instance, working with the governments for the time being until pressures were lowered was the best option in order to incite less conflict between the governments of the world and the Avengers. Also, let’s not forget that Tony and Cap, the two leaders of the Avengers, were good people with good intentions. Now that they’re gone, the Avengers are essentially in disarray. Spiderman/Peter Parker went through that journey in NWH so now he’s alone. Dr Strange helped break the multiverse (obviously wasn’t the intention, he was trying to help Peter, but he was warned not to by more than 2 people). Wanda enslaved an entire town and helped break the multiverse (not consciously but she still did). I could talk about Hawkeye and Sam too. So obviously Civil War played out the way it did because the Avengers needed to go through that in Phase 3. But disregarding Tony’s opinion as just feel goods is ignoring what could and has now happened.
@@kaylaparks5516 Tony doesn't hide from General Ross. He never goes into hiding. He just puts him on hold because he can. Because they now depended on Iron man do deal with issues. And because Tony knew captain would be the one to free the Avengers, he just puts Ross on hold. Tony had the practical solution. See you're talking about morality and i agree. Cap was being moral. Yes in realistic situations being coerced to sign something is a red flag. But they'd become fugitives. Kn this movie Iron man or anyone on his side didn't become fugitives because he signed the accords. And he still did whatever he wants. He didn't hide from General Ross he avoided him. Cuz he can do that. Cuz he signed the damn accords. :P
It's 2 hrs of Captain America and basically 25 min of avengers......everything relating to Starks, Shield, Government, Winter Soldier program and the villain(he was targeting Winter Soldier) is a part of Captain America franchise......we can say the avengers made a glorified cameo due to the presence of Sokovia accords
Fun Fact: The scene where Tony tells Peter to move so he can sit is slightly improvised. Tom sat in Roberts spot and Robert didn't want to ruin it so he said "Move over so I can sit down"
Vision has the mind stone. It in itself creates emotions. When the Avengers were on the helicarrier, they were fighting with each other because the mind stone was altering their emotions.
@@FranciscoHOS In the video they were questioning how Vision had emotions. I get that after it was in Vision it stopped affect everyone else around it.
Zemo is the best villain in the MCU in terms of how he's written, and what he achieved. He won. He tore the avengers apart like no one else had done before. He's not the strongest villain, but he's by far the smartest and sometimes that's all a villain needs
It bothers me how the blame for the suicide bomb seems to get shifted to Wanda just because she contained it briefly. It would have killed just as many if not more people on the ground had she done nothing.
Disclaimer I'm team Cap for this movie and I had a lot of Empathy for Wanda in this movie cause I know she had no ill intention but I also acknowledge Cap wasn't 100% right for not trying to find a more neutral middle ground, everything about to say is me just adding some balance cause your whole comment was biased and basic regarding a serious and yes I know fictional incident. The more basic part of reply to that would be wanda didn't just contain the blast briefly she redirected the blast onto people that would still be alive had she not been involved fact, it's not about her doing it on purpose it's about the fact that she along with rumlow killed those people even tho neither of them had that intention(Rumlow basically had different targets and Wanda's target was the sky) it's still a fact that they both killed those people. Rumlow is blow himself up and correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the team kill the rest of his crew leaving none to be stand trial and as a result left Wanda the only living person that could be held accountable baring in mind even if they left any of those henchmen alive at the most all their guilty of is working for Rumlow and there for wouldn't shoulder much more blame than Cap, Widow and Falcon who was working with Wanda. Without biased either way you look at it Wanda is basically suspect number 1 of people alive. Now to address the more complicated stuff, the point is every viewer can feel the way you feel and that's all well and good when one we as the viewers get the benefit of not only knowing Wanda and her intention but also a better view than a lot of the civilians would have got while also not being in a state of panic cause we're not the ones under attack while we watch from the comfort of our homes or local cinemas(if you watched while it aired). When it's not you or your family/friend thats been directly affected by the blast or even the government of the country that are meant to ensure safety to its people and have to be held accountable it's easy to just say fuck it shit happens but as a government even if they don't actually care they have to maintain an image that they do care. I'm sure the victims friends and family would be bothered by you not showing empathy for their loss equally if the government come out and said Wanda may have killed a bunch of civilians but said hey look at the bright side she saved the civilians in the original blast radius so we're just gunna her go back to wherever she come from with no questions asked they would be met with uproar. When you deep it she got off alright in this movie couple of days of house arrest, sure there's the guilt but that's not on the UN
@@Jacoc323 all that essay & it still didn't prove anything 💀 wanda wasn't the one blasting bombs. People would've died with or without her intervention. The only difference it made is people on the upper floor died instead of people on the ground & captain America's life was saved by wanda. The only one to blamed here was zemo & those suicide bombers not wanda. It's bad writing on this part where they make it a completely "wanda is dangerous/bad" agenda
They both had a point; Steve saying "we're signing for people with agendas & agendas change". Also Tony saying "they need supervision". Tony acknowledged Cap was right & went to help him but the problem started when he found out Bucky killed his parents, Steve knew & he didn't tell him.
While it was not nice to tell Tony Bucky killed Howard and Maria Stark, how are you supposed to bring that up to someone? By the time Tony learns this it has been 25 years since they died. That is not a fresh wound. That should be a closed, healed, and up to snuff wound. Let’s say Steve supposedly learns that Bucky killed Howard and Maria by the events of 2014, the next time we see Steve and Tony together is in 2015. He has a year to tell Tony (in retrospect). How do you go up to someone saying “My best friend, who was credited with over 24 assassinations, killed your parents. Sorry about that. Now let’s go try to lift Thor’s hammer.” I’m not saying it’s a dick move. But Tony should have at least known trying to capture Zemo should have come first. He let his emotions get the best of him.
yeah, i don't really like having to side one way or another especially the whole 'pick a side' i like both sides and they both have good reasoning whether you agree with it or not i think i'd honestly be like black widow if i was in this situation which is kind of the most neutral you can be, sign it to shut them up and gain their trust and then use your own judgment
@@nightfrost1891 thankyou. This is absolutely true. And exactly what Tony does later too. He signs and still does whatever the hell he wants. The most practical solution.
I'm rewatching this, and that was a bomb, that rumlow blasted. So it wasn't just captain, she saved all the people down there by containing it, but it seemed like she couldn’t control it for long, so before she could take the bomb someplace else she lost the control and it happened to land at that part of the building. Wanda isn't the best strategist of the team, it happened cause cap got weepy about bucky, and forgot the man in front of him is an experienced soldier and hydra agent.
Captain was right here, just because a few citizens died while they were fighting doesn't mean they are the danger or wrong! It was either sone civilians or the entire world! Some people did die but it was because they were saving the bigger amount of people
Here's the thing -- no matter if it stays as is or they fall under UN supervision, once they are deployed for battle you're going to get the same amount of terrible casualties. And this angle never gets brought up, because it would end the discussion. The reason they are "superheroes" is because of who they are -- they're to be trusted over any agency or council. Look what happened to SHIELD.
When I first saw this movie, I was only 14 and I left disappointed that we didn't get a cool fight between Captain America, the Winter Soldier, and Iron Man versus 5 crazy powerful and skilled super soldiers. Upon rewatching just a few years later, the subversion makes this one of my absolute favorite Marvel movies. We didn't need a huge 3rd act final fight between The Good Guys and The Bad Guys, we needed something different. Props to Christopher Markus, Stephen McFeely and the Russo brothers for giving us something different, complex, and still exciting and emotional.
Always team Tony. Cap's point is correct too. But they should take responsibility for their actions. My every respect goes to Black Panther. He forgave that man even tho he is the reason why his dad died. My favourite avenger in this movie. I don't like what Wanda did to Vision.He is just trying to protect her. Well about Bucky he is innocent too. They could have discussed about this matter with each other.
Hey guys. He is from Sherlock and RDJ plays Sherlock in the movies. Plus, Cumberbatch plays Sherlock in that tv show. Martin Freeman also from The Hobbit he plays Bilbo.
Way too much editing out of T'Challa for my taste.... Won't go into why. But anyways, about the accords. I would say the actual best would've been somewhere in the middle. The Avengers do cause A LOT of damage. It always cracks me up how people just overlook the fact that they destroyed that airport and sooo much just trying to resolve the Bucky issue. Were there people in those cars Wanda was tossing around? How many black people were killed in that fight when Hulk was enraged by that enchantment Wanda put on him in Age of Ultron? They do need some sort of checks and balances but not to the degree that the accords wanted. People that are long time comics readers already know that the Avengers in the comics WERE sanctioned by the government by a degree for a long time. It didn't stop them from addressing world threats when called upon. No they are not exempt from collateral damage just because they carry the mantle of superhero and you just like them. Someone is still responsible for the lost lives and property damaged. The Avengers just blow up stuff and leave. That isn't sustainable.
That's why this movie is so great. Because both Steve and Tony are right and wrong, they both have reasons you can understand. I fall somewhere in the middle, I don't agree with Steve in that they should be free to do as they please all over the world. But I also don't agree with the extent of the accords, I think their should be some form of management though.
An Opinion why the movie wasn't called The Avengers is, since the Avengers themselves were divided between agreeing and signing the accords, there were No Avengers to begin with; hence, it was a Cap movie 😃 😄
Y'all please make sure to react to The Falcon & Winter Soldier series after you finished all the movies. They are my two favorite characters and the show is really damn good.
This is a Captain America movie because Steve was the impetus for nearly everything. He's a paragon, someone they all look up to, and half of Cap's team took his side literally because he is Captain America, and he has more honor and integrity than most people on the whole damn planet. That alone is enough to side with him for some of the Avengers. Without Steve, there wouldn't have been a "civil war" in the first place. Bucky would have just been wrongfully arrested and that would be it.
My favorite thing about this movie is it’s not an avengers movie as much as it is a slice of life film set in the avengers universe. The world feels lived in.
For me I am in Steve side, because puting the Avenger in "control" of people who ar e in Goberement that we know made mistakes: The Council decied to launch a nuclear weapon against New York City, and knaw they are worried about the civils that die in nY, this was the fault of the Alience and Loky. We saw how Shield was corrupted with Hydra. And people with agendas in control of the Avenger, we know someone like Gr. Roos who has agenda with HUlk and the Avenger. I know that Tony was blind by the guilty, but he put his exteam in prison, And Steve made a mistke not talking to Tony about the death of his parents.
Captain America represents the America that doesn't compromise on its values, i.e. the old school perspective that we do things before they are right or wrong, no matter the consequences. Tony represents the new consequentialist america that values everything according to benefit and utility. In this way, Cap is the "Man out of time" because he represent an ideology that is now outdated in the political decision process. The guy in the middle is right. People act like they are all free and rightous (like Cap) but they are compromising bunch (like Tony)
Cap and his team are now fugitives......Cap asked Tony will there be safeguards in the accords and Tony said once it's signed I can make all kind of changes(he is a rich and a man of influence) this could have been solved diplomatically and if Cap didn't got what he wanted like going to Germany or any other country to fight villains, as you guys were talking about, he could have just broken the accords and then became the fugitive.......Steve is like the new America......as soon as it comes to working with or for official bodies and by rules......America resists with big words like Freedom and Rights......things can be much easier if people aren't stubborn
Yaaas. I agree. Exactly. They had to work together with the governments, earn their trust and work things to their advantage. We had a council in Avengers 1 and Nick still did whatever the hell he wanted. I don't gedit. Tony was the practical man here for the first time!!!!
yes but it's tonys word (of being able the amend and change the accords) over an actual signed accord. What if they don't allow changes in the accord? Everybody knows how the government runs. Which government is actually good and wants to do good for their people? The governments who actually hold power are the bad ones and the 'good' governments are run by people who dont hold much power sadly. So although i agree with tony and caps pov,,, i would still pick cap if i had to choose. Yes, being a vigilante isn't good but what other choice is there? Heroes are technically vigilantes. They were called heroes bc they have the people support. But if they dont have the peoples support, then their labelled as vigilantes eventho its basically the same thing as being a hero. But ig thats just my pov and its ok for others to think differently
@@prateekkhanna5540 yes i do agree with that statement but i was specifically talking about the accords and about the avengers signing them. What's the point of signing the accords or 'siding' with the government if theyre just going to go against it anyways? I always thought that it was sort of a loop hole in the avengers movies.
Great reaction & discussion guys!! In retrospect Zemo isn't so bad compared to other villains, he's just a sadboy lashing out. The accords and Tony are the real villains of this movie. Also... 24:29 hottest moment in MCU history damnnnn Steve those biceps 🔥
Wt you smoking how tony is villan and zemo not.. Accords was right in some things not all and tony told Steve if they sign first then they can change some things but Steve went all out bcaming criminal helping his buddy bucky. Steve was wrong in every way
@@vishkorg Steve was actually completely ready to sign after being arrested until he learned they essentially keeping Wanda captive in the facility. He can’t get down with restricting someone’s freedom out of fear.
@@Jabberwocky415 wonda was not kept captive she was on watch under vision till everything cool down. That's was one of right decision tony made Steve was just cry baby he was looking for reason not to sign and he found some stupid reason to hang on that.
@@vishkorg puh-lease, Tony is awful lmao, I'm not saying he's not redeemed or I don't like him but come on, he's bad, and in this movie he's the worst. Do I have to list why? We've all seen the movies: He made all his money off of weapon sales and then builds his empire and makes cool suits with that money. He's developed a never depleting energy source - has he given that gamechanger to climate change and poverty to the world so people everywhere can benefit? Nah, he builds cool suits for himself. He creates Ultron like some mad scientist, indirectly causing Sokovia and the murder of millions; holds Wanda hostage in his facility with no cause (they've all blown shit up by accident); he takes charge of the accords and decides the group needs to sign, like he's their leader? He calls Cap a friend yet refuses to stop and listen to Cap ever in the whole movie, great friend. He straight up tries to murder Bucky for revenge - no arresting, etc, just merc'ing him. If you saw a movie where the protagonist's whole family was killed by an out of control robot created by a mad scientist, and the protagonist went after said mad scientist, you and I would be cool w it I bet. Zemo didn't even kill any of them right? He just manipulated them and brought out their worst qualities. Sorry that was so long but I'm stuck on a bus with nothing else to do, so why not argue w someone on the internet hahaha ❤😅
The beauty of this conflict is that no one is right and not guilty at the same time! And the strangest thing is that the government took into account the sins of the Avengers, but not its own, including although they themselves approved the launch of a nuclear warhead on New York (yes, I know that it was indirectly involved Hydra, but it does not remove them from responsibility, as well as for the consequences)
Very few people realize that Tony went to fight cap because general Ross was about to send soldiers to arrest Cap......Tony knew it was only him and his team that can bring Cap and his team without loss of life on either side......Tony and Natasha's point was to work with the UN and avoid becoming fugitives.....having soldiers fight Cap to death, would have been bad
Sorry but working with the UN doesn't mean signing into something that isn't agreed upon by everyone. If the UN couldn't sit down and discuss alternatives with the Avengers without having them all sign then that's means they were trying to coerce
@@jesssss9973 all the avengers signing wasn't the necessary requirement......those who didn't sign just had to act retired......those who would have signed could have had meetings and discussions......Cap's retaliation made everyone in team cap a fugitive, though Tony was unaware that events are being manipulated in a way that cap is forced to retaliate but that all came too late.....cap should've signed when he had a chat(punch your teeth) with Tony......but again he got pissed that Wanda was held in a compound because she couldn't control her powers and is roaming around without an American Visa......these things count......their are rules and ways of saving the world without killing pedestrians that's what different nations around the world wanted......the government was right on their part though General Ross was too aggressive........I'm not saying cap was wrong but Tony and UN wasn't the villains people make them to be
@@prateekkhanna5540 your point literally makes no sense. What you're describing is LITERALLY coercion. Putting a condition on the pressured decision to sign? That's WRONG. And you're proving caps point 😂 you just admitted to it being manipulated, which is exactly what Caps point was, that agendas and power leads to corruption. Doesn't matter if they knew it at the time or not, the point is that the reason NOT to sign is because of the possibility of hidden agendas
@@jesssss9973 it was Zemo who was manipulating Cap not the accords......how is putting a condition is coercion......they are not normal people.....using powers lead to death of innocents thats what they were showing(and its ture)......so they are putting a condition to work with UN or just live like a normal person......they want to avoid enhanced individuals from using their powers whenever and however they want......I get the point about agenda......thats why I said Cap isn't wrong but the world isn't wrong from stopping avengers from using their powers whenever and wherever they want......imagine that the person who died from Hulk's wreckage was your family......where will you go to get justice? Government isn't it? That's why governments want avengers to work with them so they can be answerable
@@prateekkhanna5540 How is this flying over your head? That's what this movie is proving, that it doesn't matter who it is. Zemo was manipulating everyone, he had an agenda, he has access to the facilities for interrogation. He wasn't just some nobody, he had an in with the system and it caused manipulation. Signing of the accords doesn't just mean that the UN would have to be the ones oppressing, it means ANYONE can have an agenda, and the Avengers have to abide by the signings otherwise they'll be fugitives. This is such common sense, cap was right not to sign. Also this argument about civilian lives is so silly, signings of the accords doesn't ensure civilian safety 😂 Now villains can just trget whatever they want knowing there will be a slow process for the Avengers to get approval. So again Cap was right not to sign
i really didn’t get how no one understood that if the avengers weren’t there to stop any of the criminals and aliens there would far more damage then what the avengers did. what wanda did was an accident, she didn’t have her powers mastered at this point. hulk is just a destructive person, it’s not like he does it on purpose and bucky is literally brainwashed by a few words. if people think a battle between supes and villains isn’t gonna have destruction then that’s just poor thinking
You could make literally the same argument for why the police force should function with 0 oversight "because the situation would be worse if they weren't there to help." More oversight and transparency is never a bad thing, but Cap fanboys seem to have blinders on in regards to this.
@@mieroth nah they agree with cap because he’s right and u can’t compare them to cops, like they can’t go anywhere because they have restrictions. Caps not my favorite avenger but he was right in this case
I just wanna say I'm Team Iron man in this movie, even though I'm always team Steve in every other movie ever. He's my most favourite. Just hear me out. Both iron man and captain have changed over the course of these many movies. Captain in Avengers 1 was ready to do as he was told. And then figures out that Nick was using The Tessaract to do something else. Further realises that every organisation has its own agenda in Captain America 2. Captain gets more rogue with each movie. On the other hand, for every damage caused by Iron man, he feels more guilt. Like vision says, challenge breeds catastrophe. And that's a very meaningful thing. Wanda happened because of Avengers 1 when we got the mind stone. Because Wanda messed with Iron man's head, he made Vision ( and Ultron) so even though it's Iron mans fault it's not completely his fault. Everyone has their part in whatever happened. Iron man has with time realised he has made awful mistakes and tries to rectify it by maybe sticking with the accords. He has his own selfish reasons- fixing things with pepper, fixing his guilt. We also notice Captain almost agrees to sign the accord two times. The first time, we have Peggy's death. And her words from after life that make his feelings stronger. I just have one thing to say. Iron man signed the accord, but still does whatever he wants. You know why? Because he can. They're the Avengers. They can sign something, but still act of necessity. They could have tried to amend it to become better, TOGETHER. Iron never said he wanted to completely follow the accord. He was ready to negotiate. Because he himself could never follow rules. Captain decided to be selfish to protect his friend. He still didn't know for sure that Bucky, didn't do it he trusted him because he was his friend He also was selfish by not telling Tony the truth about the death of his parents, which is dishonest on his part. Imagine having something work with you, where your life depended on your coworkers, it takes a lot of trust. To fight together in a battle. Steve fought battles with Tony. I would never expect anyone, let alone Tony be able to handle that kind of betrayal. He does apologise later. Obviously, cuz CAP Is a great man.
People always miss the third side, the Wakandan side. They were going to sign the accords, yet still basically do whatever they want in secret like they always have. But Steve can't seem to be dishonest for the greater good.
I don't think that's an option for the Avengers tho. They're like celebrities, everyone knows them so wherever they go poeple will notice. Wakanda, on the other hand, is overlooked by other countries so it makes sense that they have more freedom to do what they want in secret.
@@Naahi95 its harder, indeed, but an option to strive for but perhaps be less effective than they'd like to be. Tony could have kept Spiderman as a secret that he could use as a proxy for certain missions. Steve could have kept Falcon more secretive, and of course they could hire ant man for things. Steve could have an extra suit that covers his face and not use a shield for secret missions. Tons of options.
I get where your tryna go with that but the difference is up until the black panther movie when they come to the US what incidents can you pick from the MCU that you could blame on Wakanda? There's a difference between doing what they want living peacefully on their own land and going to foreign countries causing damage(whether the Avengers had good or bad intentions is a whole different angle)
@@Jacoc323 they were free to not sign the accords. But they wanted to hide their power to help act to save people of the world. It's not just about retribution for wrongs, but a compulsion to act on the counsils deicion, which they were going to lie about their power.
And yet again we see Tony trying to control everything /one around him. How did that work out the last time? Don't people usually die in a Civil War, I thought War Machine would be it when he fell from that height (spam in a can )...One thing, I wish they would have stuck more to the comic book version.
Captain America, typically represents what is righteous. A very high moral compass. America does not live up to that. There are many in America that strive to be that. But there are also many that are selfish & ego driven, like Stark. We all try to think of ourselves in the Captain America image. But at the end of the day, we have to acknowledge we are a mix of both. But, I would say this. I truly do not believe that our government represents us well at all. Most of what they do, goes against our better judgment. It's almost as if Hydra has taken over.
To me, Captain America was against type in this movie. He is supposed to be the ultimate soldier willing to fight for freedom, but he was a soldier who was part of an army that took orders and was sent by superiors to where they were told to fight. This movie had him rejecting that, saying he won’t fight where his country sends him when they need him, he will decide where he will fight and when.
There is a long history in the comic books of Cap disobeying directives from the U.S. government when he believes that they're not acting in the interests of freedom and liberty. There have even been two separate occasions when he resigned as Captain America because he refused to follow along with the government. Steve was acting completely in character in this film.
There is a perfect line in the comics from Steve Rogers I’m going to quote right here. “The colours on my costume doesn’t represent who I fight for, but for what I believe in.”
Hesam M Because Fury and Widow is in it? They’re also in Iron Man 2. If anything the Captain America films show us that HYDRA has a long legacy, even after the Red Skull died. When the Second film finished it showed us that HYDRA agents, and in Civil War some agents are living normal lives but holding onto the past and not burning it away. Also Siberia.
I'm just gonna put this out there; There is a reason why this conflict happened under the "Captain America" arc. Which side is right? Never take sides against Cap in a war of morals.
Team Cap, the only logical side. pd: I *really* didn't like Vision in this movie. Rhoades's injury was all his fault. Plus he was acting super arrogant for some reason
I don't hate either of them. I think the beauty of this movie is that they were both right and wrong, they both made mistakes but you can understand their reasoning.
Tony wanted Bucky to die for killing his parents while he himself got off scott free for all the people he killed by building a murder bot. Tony is fully responsible for every death in Sarkovia yet he walked away clean. In the real world all his tech would have been confiscated and he would be barred from any research at minimum.
Haha you’re forgetting Bruce banner? Oh and let’s not forget that because of this we have Vision. Let’s not forget how important Vision is later on? Right right no wonder your comment has been disliked so much…
This was an emotion moment not a government issue he wanted to kill Bucky for killing his parents and he felt bad for what happened so he wanted to sign the accords as well for that reason whole point
What? No come on? He did all that because of Wanda. If not for Tony we wouldn't have vision. So on and so forth. If not for Tony, the entire New York would be in ashes RN. He decided to put his life on the line to save Newyork from the stupid Nuke. Better watch the movies all ove ragai. With a fresh unbiased perspective.
Dhairiya Sundar Just because there are reasons, does not mean that save him from getting all his tech retrieved by the government. Especially if you made a genocidal AI that would drop a city and kill all life on Earth. Even when it failed, it the rubble killed lots of people. It’s not a matter of pointing fingers, because if that was the case, school shooters who had issues would get away scott free. Fresh unbiased opinion is how the world sees the Avengers in universe. While they do save the world, they cause a lot of damage, with lives lost people have grudges.
Still think the one mistake of this movie was letting Cap win so easily. Maybe there was not enough budget to show all the power Iron man could have used in the fight.
In the last fight Tony is in an enclosed space. He is not going to be hard to hit neither is he going to be fast. He is also just trying to kill Bucky, without collapsing the entire structure they’re in. You can see when Tony activated his thrusters when Steve lifted him up, he panicked. He is not used to fighting in enclosed spaces with the Iron Man suit as it does not work well. Tony’s last mistake in the fight was putting his arms in front of his face. Steve was banking on that since, once he did that, the suit would de power when Steve struck it with his shield. The Iron Man suits aren’t invincible or as powerful as people think they are in the MCU. I remember how the Mark 42 got completely shattered when it flew into a semi.
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that is character development, in Captain America 1 captain would have signed the accords but after Winter Soldier he does not trust any government. in Iron Man 1 Tony would have never signed any kind of accord but after the events of Avengers and the Winter Soldier, he is now ready to sign the Treaty because of his own guilt.
You're right, that's really interesting 👌
@Emad Raza I’m not talking about who’s right! I’m just saying, Characters in the MCU are not stationary, they keep evolving like humans, that is the only reason why they are still successfully making stuff.
@@rachit1042 I don’t think she was saying who’s right or wrong; I believe Elizabeth was referring to the character development that you mentioned in detail. She even said, “that’s really interesting 👌”
In my opinion, the movie doesn't carry the title Avengers because it's not about the team coming together dealing with a big threat. It's an internal conflict with Steve as the unifying center of it all. That's why it's a Captain America movie.
That said, many fans call it Avengers 2.5
Two of the strongest members are missing too lol.
The reason I always considered that it was a "Captain America" movie was because if you took away the storyline about the Accords and the Avengers dispute, the rest of the movie was entirely about Cap. Bucky being framed, Cap tracking him down in Bucharest to defend him, him finding out about the other Winter Soldiers, traveling to Siberia to learn the truth about them...
It’s an Avengers plot but it’s a Captain America narrative. It’s only Cap (and Falcon) who oppose the Accords while the others are pro-accords or undecided. And the rest of the movie like you said is all about Bucky being framed.
RIP William Hurt, just passed today. He played a heck of a general.
Also RIP to Chadwick Boseman Tchalla will always be kind of Wakanda to me
Oh i just saw a post about it
Rip william hurt
His last marvel performance will be in she hulk
God, I love this movie, even to this day. The Russo brothers do action filming (in any genre) the best, hands down. Plus, the Russo's (plus the writers) making Bucky the pivot point for this movie was just such a great story and directorial direction to go. Honestly, probably my favorite MCU movie
i think it’s under rated. low key one of the greatest cbm of all time.
it’s so good
@@johnnosmith1067 cbm?
@@DelightFools comic book movie
AGREED! I’m
(1.) Infinity War
(2.) Civil War
(3.) Winter Soldier
(4.) Black Panther
(5.) probably Endgame? I don’t really have a 5th spot I can settle on. . .
The point of the movie is to show that both sides are right and wrong, and they set it up from the start. Tony's guilt, arrogance and conflicting emotions in regards to his parents, then Steve's self-righteousness, uncompromising atitude and inability to let go of the past.
Steve - Crossbones (Rumlow) mentioned Bucky and Steve immediately froze and failed to see what Rumlow was up to, putting Wanda in a lose-lose situation where it was either save the people on the ground or send the blast up except it went off before it cleared the building. Penny, Steve's last link to his past dies, which makes him blindly latch onto Bucky whenever he arises. Black Widow asks Steve to let them handle it and they'd bring him in alive, that he'd only make things worse (which he did) but he doesn't listen, saying that Bucky was his responsibility. Note his justification. Steve ditches the Avengers altogether and goes rogue, so blinded by Bucky that he doesn't even think to question or investigate, falling right into Zemo's trap. Him knowing that Bucky killed Tony's parents and not telling him in order to spare both himself and Bucky. This is the setup for Steve's special brand of arrogance and self-righteousness, made evident by Rhodey, who is a soldier as well, calling him out as being arrogant.
Tony - The holographic scene between Tony and his parents, then the mother blaming him for her son's death immediately make Tony want to redeem himself and deal with his guilt via oversight. There are also the issues in his relationship with Pepper, where his work as an Avenger seems to be the problem. Tony's ego, fear and guilt over all that's happened and the tremendous amount of civilian loss make Ross's offer all the more appealing and an easy fix to his issues. Steve was right when he said Tony wanted to surrender responsibility for their actions. Then again, Tony is not a soldier and the extreme loss of life when they engage in a fight seems to be too much for him to handle. Remember what he did when he found out his weapons were being used for terrorism. Then Tony begins to cross lines like putting Wanda (the youngest member in the Avengers who's taking the heat for Steve's mistake) under house arrest.
The movie is a clash of ideals. Accountability vs freedom, and figuring out where one ends and the other begins. Tony and Steve happened to stand on opposite ends of the spectrum, and through their own biases, flaws and emotional ties, were unable to find middle ground.
Thanks for this comment. This is literally what I figured in this movie which is why I’m not on either of them and it also explains why it’s my favourite movie.
I love this reply. Plus, we also know Steve is a character of great integrity. My thing has always been sign the accords to shut up the govt, but when it comes down to it they can't stop the Avengers from doing whatever needs to be done (strength, power, & wit on their side lol). However that's where it all falls apart. Cap couldn't live with himself if he were to sign something he knows he won't uphold - he's a man of his word. Tony could care less what jerks (the govt, not civilians like Alfre Woodard's character) think of him, as long as he knows what he's doing will save people. Both crossed lines in this movie (Tony with Wanda's house arrest & Steve with the Winter Soldier secret), which makes the audience all the more conflicted between the two sides
@@candykane6480 What's curious is that most people take Steve's side and fail to see the point of this movie.
Not to mention, Steve Rogers is a man of great integrity but he's not infallible or flawless. Steve believes himself to be morally superior and has very traditional American values (like the uncompromising approach to freedom to the point it skirts accountability), which gives him a very peculiar brand of arrogance.
I love that Rhodey was actually the only one to point out how arrogant some of his stances are.
I loved Infinity War and Endgame, I loved No Way Home, but for me, my favorite two movies are Winter Soldier and Civil War. They're just amazing. It's because even though there's plenty of action, the conflict is a lot more mental. Idk these two are my favs. I just love Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes, they're two of my favs.
There is so much action in this films. Stan Lee’s cameos are priceless.
Aqeel. FYI:During the post credits with Black Panther and Captain America, that was a statue of a black panther. This was a Captain American movie, also introductions to characters Black Panther, Ant-Man, and Spider-Man. Leading to their origin stories.
R.I.P. Chadwick Bozeman & R.I.P. Stan Lee
It was so much fun to see all the other superheroes in this movie when it was actually released because people didn’t know who they were going to see…excitement in marvel movies is on next level
I don’t blame Zemo for his vengeance or Tony for his going after Bucky
Zemo is one of my favorite villains ❤️
Tony signed to help himself sleep better at night. Throughout the entire movie, Tony kept saying things like “articles can be amended.” He broke the accords when he put his suit on in the helicopter. He himself doesn’t even believe the accords as much as he puts out.
And yet if cap would’ve just had a conversation with Tony he would’ve believed him instead of listening to Sam , Tony found out everything himself in seconds lol so many things could’ve been avoided.
Elizabeth Izaguirre Tony wasn’t willing to listen at the airport. Once Steve was getting to the point, Tony interrupted and said “I don’t have time for this.” called “Underoos”, and everything spiralled out of control because Tony couldn’t be patient.
That’s why cap was right during the accords but definitely siding with him after he tried to fix it
@@elizabethizaguirre4831 he literally said “the doctor, he’s behind all of this.” He was trying to explain it but Tony didn’t want to listen..
@@Jisungs.moving.castle Well if Cap and his team surrendered and while in custody explained what was actually happening, then the whole fight could’ve been avoided. Think about it, if Cap, bucky, and Tony showed up to face Zemo later, what would Zemo have done differently that would’ve been worse than if they gone earlier? Nothing, he would’ve waited. But Cap insisted on conflict and doing his own thing instead of sitting down and talking.
Steve was 100% right. Most people who takes Tony's side just regurgitate what Tony is saying without explaining why it's good for bad. That's because they can't, it comes from an emotional perspective so the argument falls apart. But you guys broke down exactly why Cap is right and are awesome for it 😍
Putting power in the hands of people who have agendas leads to corruption.
Trying to make someone give up their values and coerce them into signing something just because Tony says theyll "deal with the issues as they come" is irresponsible and toxic
And the proof here being that they're gonna do what they want regardless, why force someone to sign something that they don't want when you aren't gonna follow it either? What looks worse? Not signing something, or signing something and then going back on it?
If we stop to think about who is actually right in terms of morality, individuality, freedom, and logic.. it's Steve. If you want to think who's right in terms of the "feel goods" then I guess Tony is right but that's bass ackwards. I said what I said 💁🏿♀️🤷🏿♀️
This!! This is how I break it down with my friends! If I could like twice, I would
I don't know. I agree partly. I'm a huge Cap fan. You're saying Tony is just arguing emotionally right? I always felt that Tony was right on some level and not just emotionally. Yes emotionally he was a disaster. And he was wrong about Bucky.
But if they didn't sign the accords, all the countries that are a part of the UN will force them to retire. And forcing them to retire is impossible. What they'd actually do is name them Vigilantes. And terrorists. And they'd all have to go into hiding. It's not the US. It's the UN.
This also means they'd try to confiscate all Iron man suits, probably including vision. They won't be successful because Tony is stronger and smarter and it's impossible to get hold of Vision. But it will lead to more conflict, more loss.
But it also means that they won't be able to fight battles like they did in the beginning of this very movie. In bright day light. 15 seconds into the fight, they'd probably be surrounded by forces, helicopters etc. Irrespective of which country. As long as it's a part of the UN, they'd be armed and ready to arrest them. They'd be in constant hiding. Running.
Let's not be arrogant saying they're the Avengers. Let's think practically? They're not gonna be together all the time to be strong. They're obviously gonna go into hiding and still have normal casual moments, without being on guard all the time.
People like Hawkeye, iron man and black widow, have easy weak points that could be hurt. Hell, even captain, black panther and falcon were caught almost immediately.
They'd be forced to surrender and we saw them in prison cells.
I don't think they'd be successful being vigilantes for very long, especially when it's the United Nations.
Yes if it's just American government, maybe Tony can still override it. But it's the UN. When all the countries ask you to sign something, you atleast think about it and work into it. Like Rhodey says. It was incredibly arrogant of Cap to assume they don't have to sign the accords. It's kind of a slap to the governments that lost property, the people that lost lives. I also think Cap protected Wanda because she saved his life, which caused the whole loss of lives in the early movie. Yes he feels responsible for her. Also Cap this entire movie acted based on emotions too. I don't understand why people think Tony was the only emotional guy.
I think Tony had the smarter choice. They were clearly backed into a corner. You can be ethical and say i won't sign in something I don't believe in, like cap. Or be Tony. And be smart? Sign the Accords but still work it to your benefits. And that's exactly what Tony did. He signed it yet still did whatever the hell he wanted. The solution was in the middle and Cap abandoned the Team to save his friend. (Which is something I would've done too) but cap always said that if we lose, we'll do that together. Didn't he?) He definitely wasn't acting on everybody's best interest. He's going more rogue by the day and we all know why. Even tho cap was doing the right thing by protecting Bucky, doesn't mean he had a practical solution. I'm always Team cap. But this movie i was genuinely torn and i choose Iron man.
If they're the mightiest heroes, they can clearly workout a way to do things their way. Negotiation. Was key. Cap wasn't negotiating. He was arrogant and selfish this movie. And i love that man so much. It's only human of him
@@dhairiyasundar1285 I strongly disagree that Tony had the smarter choice. If you're being coerced into signing something, that should spark red flags right away.
Let's break it down like this, we know that Tony violates the accords anyways by doing his own thing (the whole reason he had to hide from the general). Soo he had no issue breaking it when necessity calls. So by that logic everything you just stated that would happen, would happen regardless when the Avengers need to act out of necessity and don't have the go ahead to do so. The difference here with Cap is you maintain your integrity and values. Also if the UN can't come to the table and talk alternatives rather than saying "it's this document or your enemies" then that's foolish. And if they manage to convince world leaders and civilians that the Avengers are bad based off of this, then that all the more fits the description of corruption. Making Cap even more right 😂 so 🤷🏿♀️🤷🏿♀️🤷🏿♀️
@@dhairiyasundar1285 Yeah I agree with this take. In this particular instance, it played out where in this movie Cap was correct. As the viewer we know that the avengers are good people. But if there ever was corruption among the Avengers, is Tony or Ross wrong in saying there needs to be oversight in order to stop that corruption? In a general view, Cap was right, only because in this instance it played out that way. Like the person I’m replying to said, if the entirety of the Avengers didn’t agree to sign, they’d be marked as vigilantes if not terrorists, and the governments of the world would look to hunt them down, which incites more conflict. In my opinion, both Tony and Cap were right. Cap was right in general that the Avengers need to be able to make their own decisions for the greater good. Tony was right that in that particular instance, working with the governments for the time being until pressures were lowered was the best option in order to incite less conflict between the governments of the world and the Avengers.
Also, let’s not forget that Tony and Cap, the two leaders of the Avengers, were good people with good intentions. Now that they’re gone, the Avengers are essentially in disarray. Spiderman/Peter Parker went through that journey in NWH so now he’s alone. Dr Strange helped break the multiverse (obviously wasn’t the intention, he was trying to help Peter, but he was warned not to by more than 2 people). Wanda enslaved an entire town and helped break the multiverse (not consciously but she still did). I could talk about Hawkeye and Sam too. So obviously Civil War played out the way it did because the Avengers needed to go through that in Phase 3. But disregarding Tony’s opinion as just feel goods is ignoring what could and has now happened.
@@kaylaparks5516 Tony doesn't hide from General Ross. He never goes into hiding. He just puts him on hold because he can. Because they now depended on Iron man do deal with issues. And because Tony knew captain would be the one to free the Avengers, he just puts Ross on hold. Tony had the practical solution. See you're talking about morality and i agree. Cap was being moral.
Yes in realistic situations being coerced to sign something is a red flag. But they'd become fugitives. Kn this movie Iron man or anyone on his side didn't become fugitives because he signed the accords. And he still did whatever he wants. He didn't hide from General Ross he avoided him. Cuz he can do that. Cuz he signed the damn accords. :P
R.IP. William Hurt. passed away today at 71. He played General ross
It's 2 hrs of Captain America and basically 25 min of avengers......everything relating to Starks, Shield, Government, Winter Soldier program and the villain(he was targeting Winter Soldier) is a part of Captain America franchise......we can say the avengers made a glorified cameo due to the presence of Sokovia accords
Fun Fact: The scene where Tony tells Peter to move so he can sit is slightly improvised. Tom sat in Roberts spot and Robert didn't want to ruin it so he said "Move over so I can sit down"
Vision has the mind stone. It in itself creates emotions. When the Avengers were on the helicarrier, they were fighting with each other because the mind stone was altering their emotions.
Well no, it doesn’t affect them anymore like that when Vision was alive. Otherwise they’d constantly be fighting against each other.
@@FranciscoHOS In the video they were questioning how Vision had emotions. I get that after it was in Vision it stopped affect everyone else around it.
Zemo is the best villain in the MCU in terms of how he's written, and what he achieved. He won. He tore the avengers apart like no one else had done before. He's not the strongest villain, but he's by far the smartest and sometimes that's all a villain needs
33:05 There's a rivalry between Queens and Brooklyn, so no, they shouldn't be buddies LOL
“Woah this looks so CG wtf”
My exact thoughts every time I see the Spider-Man suit
It bothers me how the blame for the suicide bomb seems to get shifted to Wanda just because she contained it briefly. It would have killed just as many if not more people on the ground had she done nothing.
Disclaimer I'm team Cap for this movie and I had a lot of Empathy for Wanda in this movie cause I know she had no ill intention but I also acknowledge Cap wasn't 100% right for not trying to find a more neutral middle ground, everything about to say is me just adding some balance cause your whole comment was biased and basic regarding a serious and yes I know fictional incident.
The more basic part of reply to that would be wanda didn't just contain the blast briefly she redirected the blast onto people that would still be alive had she not been involved fact, it's not about her doing it on purpose it's about the fact that she along with rumlow killed those people even tho neither of them had that intention(Rumlow basically had different targets and Wanda's target was the sky) it's still a fact that they both killed those people. Rumlow is blow himself up and correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the team kill the rest of his crew leaving none to be stand trial and as a result left Wanda the only living person that could be held accountable baring in mind even if they left any of those henchmen alive at the most all their guilty of is working for Rumlow and there for wouldn't shoulder much more blame than Cap, Widow and Falcon who was working with Wanda. Without biased either way you look at it Wanda is basically suspect number 1 of people alive.
Now to address the more complicated stuff, the point is every viewer can feel the way you feel and that's all well and good when one we as the viewers get the benefit of not only knowing Wanda and her intention but also a better view than a lot of the civilians would have got while also not being in a state of panic cause we're not the ones under attack while we watch from the comfort of our homes or local cinemas(if you watched while it aired). When it's not you or your family/friend thats been directly affected by the blast or even the government of the country that are meant to ensure safety to its people and have to be held accountable it's easy to just say fuck it shit happens but as a government even if they don't actually care they have to maintain an image that they do care. I'm sure the victims friends and family would be bothered by you not showing empathy for their loss equally if the government come out and said Wanda may have killed a bunch of civilians but said hey look at the bright side she saved the civilians in the original blast radius so we're just gunna her go back to wherever she come from with no questions asked they would be met with uproar.
When you deep it she got off alright in this movie couple of days of house arrest, sure there's the guilt but that's not on the UN
@@Jacoc323 all that essay & it still didn't prove anything 💀 wanda wasn't the one blasting bombs. People would've died with or without her intervention. The only difference it made is people on the upper floor died instead of people on the ground & captain America's life was saved by wanda. The only one to blamed here was zemo & those suicide bombers not wanda. It's bad writing on this part where they make it a completely "wanda is dangerous/bad" agenda
They both had a point;
Steve saying "we're signing for people with agendas & agendas change". Also Tony saying "they need supervision".
Tony acknowledged Cap was right & went to help him but the problem started when he found out Bucky killed his parents, Steve knew & he didn't tell him.
While it was not nice to tell Tony Bucky killed Howard and Maria Stark, how are you supposed to bring that up to someone? By the time Tony learns this it has been 25 years since they died. That is not a fresh wound. That should be a closed, healed, and up to snuff wound. Let’s say Steve supposedly learns that Bucky killed Howard and Maria by the events of 2014, the next time we see Steve and Tony together is in 2015. He has a year to tell Tony (in retrospect). How do you go up to someone saying “My best friend, who was credited with over 24 assassinations, killed your parents. Sorry about that. Now let’s go try to lift Thor’s hammer.”
I’m not saying it’s a dick move. But Tony should have at least known trying to capture Zemo should have come first. He let his emotions get the best of him.
yeah, i don't really like having to side one way or another especially the whole 'pick a side'
i like both sides and they both have good reasoning whether you agree with it or not
i think i'd honestly be like black widow if i was in this situation which is kind of the most neutral you can be, sign it to shut them up and gain their trust and then use your own judgment
@@nightfrost1891 thankyou. This is absolutely true. And exactly what Tony does later too. He signs and still does whatever the hell he wants. The most practical solution.
Steve didn't know it was Bucky, only that his parents were killed by hydra.
Exactly, that's why I love this movie. They were both right and wrong and you can understand each side of their point of view.
I'm rewatching this, and that was a bomb, that rumlow blasted. So it wasn't just captain, she saved all the people down there by containing it, but it seemed like she couldn’t control it for long, so before she could take the bomb someplace else she lost the control and it happened to land at that part of the building. Wanda isn't the best strategist of the team, it happened cause cap got weepy about bucky, and forgot the man in front of him is an experienced soldier and hydra agent.
Captain was right here, just because a few citizens died while they were fighting doesn't mean they are the danger or wrong! It was either sone civilians or the entire world! Some people did die but it was because they were saving the bigger amount of people
Team Cap all day everyday! Tony usually causes problems and then has his "uh oh" moments later when shit escalates and gets out of hand
Here's the thing -- no matter if it stays as is or they fall under UN supervision, once they are deployed for battle you're going to get the same amount of terrible casualties. And this angle never gets brought up, because it would end the discussion. The reason they are "superheroes" is because of who they are -- they're to be trusted over any agency or council. Look what happened to SHIELD.
10:03 The same guy that wanted to hunt down Hulk and weaponize him.
When I first saw this movie, I was only 14 and I left disappointed that we didn't get a cool fight between Captain America, the Winter Soldier, and Iron Man versus 5 crazy powerful and skilled super soldiers. Upon rewatching just a few years later, the subversion makes this one of my absolute favorite Marvel movies. We didn't need a huge 3rd act final fight between The Good Guys and The Bad Guys, we needed something different. Props to Christopher Markus, Stephen McFeely and the Russo brothers for giving us something different, complex, and still exciting and emotional.
23:55 The extras in these movies are always the best lol
R.I.P William Hurt 🕊
Always team Tony. Cap's point is correct too. But they should take responsibility for their actions. My every respect goes to Black Panther. He forgave that man even tho he is the reason why his dad died. My favourite avenger in this movie. I don't like what Wanda did to Vision.He is just trying to protect her. Well about Bucky he is innocent too. They could have discussed about this matter with each other.
But the accords is not them taking responsability... more like passing the blame to the UN and letting go of their freedom
Hey guys. He is from Sherlock and RDJ plays Sherlock in the movies. Plus, Cumberbatch plays Sherlock in that tv show. Martin Freeman also from The Hobbit he plays Bilbo.
No 💩 Sherlock 😂
Way too much editing out of T'Challa for my taste.... Won't go into why. But anyways, about the accords. I would say the actual best would've been somewhere in the middle. The Avengers do cause A LOT of damage. It always cracks me up how people just overlook the fact that they destroyed that airport and sooo much just trying to resolve the Bucky issue. Were there people in those cars Wanda was tossing around? How many black people were killed in that fight when Hulk was enraged by that enchantment Wanda put on him in Age of Ultron? They do need some sort of checks and balances but not to the degree that the accords wanted. People that are long time comics readers already know that the Avengers in the comics WERE sanctioned by the government by a degree for a long time. It didn't stop them from addressing world threats when called upon.
No they are not exempt from collateral damage just because they carry the mantle of superhero and you just like them. Someone is still responsible for the lost lives and property damaged. The Avengers just blow up stuff and leave. That isn't sustainable.
Why’s it specifically matter how many black people were killed? Very weird
That's why this movie is so great. Because both Steve and Tony are right and wrong, they both have reasons you can understand. I fall somewhere in the middle, I don't agree with Steve in that they should be free to do as they please all over the world. But I also don't agree with the extent of the accords, I think their should be some form of management though.
Yeah, I agree too.
The DEAN 😂😂
I love the super soldiers plot was a feint!
An Opinion why the movie wasn't called The Avengers is, since the Avengers themselves were divided between agreeing and signing the accords, there were No Avengers to begin with; hence, it was a Cap movie 😃 😄
Y'all please make sure to react to The Falcon & Winter Soldier series after you finished all the movies. They are my two favorite characters and the show is really damn good.
Team Cap all the way
This is a Captain America movie because Steve was the impetus for nearly everything. He's a paragon, someone they all look up to, and half of Cap's team took his side literally because he is Captain America, and he has more honor and integrity than most people on the whole damn planet. That alone is enough to side with him for some of the Avengers. Without Steve, there wouldn't have been a "civil war" in the first place. Bucky would have just been wrongfully arrested and that would be it.
William hurt the guy who plays thunderbolt ross died
The Sokovia Accords are a red flag.
My favorite thing about this movie is it’s not an avengers movie as much as it is a slice of life film set in the avengers universe. The world feels lived in.
For me I am in Steve side, because puting the Avenger in "control" of people who ar e in Goberement that we know made mistakes:
The Council decied to launch a nuclear weapon against New York City, and knaw they are worried about the civils that die in nY, this was the fault of the Alience and Loky.
We saw how Shield was corrupted with Hydra.
And people with agendas in control of the Avenger, we know someone like Gr. Roos who has agenda with HUlk and the Avenger.
I know that Tony was blind by the guilty, but he put his exteam in prison,
And Steve made a mistke not talking to Tony about the death of his parents.
Captain America represents the America that doesn't compromise on its values, i.e. the old school perspective that we do things before they are right or wrong, no matter the consequences. Tony represents the new consequentialist america that values everything according to benefit and utility. In this way, Cap is the "Man out of time" because he represent an ideology that is now outdated in the political decision process. The guy in the middle is right. People act like they are all free and rightous (like Cap) but they are compromising bunch (like Tony)
Cap and his team are now fugitives......Cap asked Tony will there be safeguards in the accords and Tony said once it's signed I can make all kind of changes(he is a rich and a man of influence) this could have been solved diplomatically and if Cap didn't got what he wanted like going to Germany or any other country to fight villains, as you guys were talking about, he could have just broken the accords and then became the fugitive.......Steve is like the new America......as soon as it comes to working with or for official bodies and by rules......America resists with big words like Freedom and Rights......things can be much easier if people aren't stubborn
Yaaas. I agree. Exactly. They had to work together with the governments, earn their trust and work things to their advantage. We had a council in Avengers 1 and Nick still did whatever the hell he wanted. I don't gedit. Tony was the practical man here for the first time!!!!
@@dhairiyasundar1285 yeah.....the future movies proved Cap wrong of his dialogue about "if we do this we will loose our right to choose"
yes but it's tonys word (of being able the amend and change the accords) over an actual signed accord. What if they don't allow changes in the accord? Everybody knows how the government runs. Which government is actually good and wants to do good for their people? The governments who actually hold power are the bad ones and the 'good' governments are run by people who dont hold much power sadly. So although i agree with tony and caps pov,,, i would still pick cap if i had to choose. Yes, being a vigilante isn't good but what other choice is there? Heroes are technically vigilantes. They were called heroes bc they have the people support. But if they dont have the peoples support, then their labelled as vigilantes eventho its basically the same thing as being a hero. But ig thats just my pov and its ok for others to think differently
@@ashleym8170 Tony was doing whatever he felt like in homecoming and infinity war.....he wasn't waiting on government sanctions to help spidy
@@prateekkhanna5540 yes i do agree with that statement but i was specifically talking about the accords and about the avengers signing them. What's the point of signing the accords or 'siding' with the government if theyre just going to go against it anyways? I always thought that it was sort of a loop hole in the avengers movies.
Oh man.. just saw that William Hurt(General/ SecState Ross) died.
people complaining about CGI is the same as high schoolers complaining about Math...
🕶️ with it.
RIP William Hurt
Great reaction & discussion guys!!
In retrospect Zemo isn't so bad compared to other villains, he's just a sadboy lashing out. The accords and Tony are the real villains of this movie.
Also... 24:29 hottest moment in MCU history damnnnn Steve those biceps 🔥
Wt you smoking how tony is villan and zemo not.. Accords was right in some things not all and tony told Steve if they sign first then they can change some things but Steve went all out bcaming criminal helping his buddy bucky. Steve was wrong in every way
@@vishkorg Steve was actually completely ready to sign after being arrested until he learned they essentially keeping Wanda captive in the facility. He can’t get down with restricting someone’s freedom out of fear.
@@Jabberwocky415 wonda was not kept captive she was on watch under vision till everything cool down. That's was one of right decision tony made Steve was just cry baby he was looking for reason not to sign and he found some stupid reason to hang on that.
@@vishkorg puh-lease, Tony is awful lmao, I'm not saying he's not redeemed or I don't like him but come on, he's bad, and in this movie he's the worst. Do I have to list why? We've all seen the movies:
He made all his money off of weapon sales and then builds his empire and makes cool suits with that money. He's developed a never depleting energy source - has he given that gamechanger to climate change and poverty to the world so people everywhere can benefit? Nah, he builds cool suits for himself.
He creates Ultron like some mad scientist, indirectly causing Sokovia and the murder of millions; holds Wanda hostage in his facility with no cause (they've all blown shit up by accident); he takes charge of the accords and decides the group needs to sign, like he's their leader? He calls Cap a friend yet refuses to stop and listen to Cap ever in the whole movie, great friend. He straight up tries to murder Bucky for revenge - no arresting, etc, just merc'ing him.
If you saw a movie where the protagonist's whole family was killed by an out of control robot created by a mad scientist, and the protagonist went after said mad scientist, you and I would be cool w it I bet. Zemo didn't even kill any of them right? He just manipulated them and brought out their worst qualities.
Sorry that was so long but I'm stuck on a bus with nothing else to do, so why not argue w someone on the internet hahaha ❤😅
@@mehlev 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
r.i.p william hurt and chadwick
The beauty of this conflict is that no one is right and not guilty at the same time! And the strangest thing is that the government took into account the sins of the Avengers, but not its own, including although they themselves approved the launch of a nuclear warhead on New York (yes, I know that it was indirectly involved Hydra, but it does not remove them from responsibility, as well as for the consequences)
how about going to Nigeria without the Nigerian government's permission, that explosion was their fault
Very few people realize that Tony went to fight cap because general Ross was about to send soldiers to arrest Cap......Tony knew it was only him and his team that can bring Cap and his team without loss of life on either side......Tony and Natasha's point was to work with the UN and avoid becoming fugitives.....having soldiers fight Cap to death, would have been bad
Sorry but working with the UN doesn't mean signing into something that isn't agreed upon by everyone. If the UN couldn't sit down and discuss alternatives with the Avengers without having them all sign then that's means they were trying to coerce
@@jesssss9973 all the avengers signing wasn't the necessary requirement......those who didn't sign just had to act retired......those who would have signed could have had meetings and discussions......Cap's retaliation made everyone in team cap a fugitive, though Tony was unaware that events are being manipulated in a way that cap is forced to retaliate but that all came too late.....cap should've signed when he had a chat(punch your teeth) with Tony......but again he got pissed that Wanda was held in a compound because she couldn't control her powers and is roaming around without an American Visa......these things count......their are rules and ways of saving the world without killing pedestrians that's what different nations around the world wanted......the government was right on their part though General Ross was too aggressive........I'm not saying cap was wrong but Tony and UN wasn't the villains people make them to be
@@prateekkhanna5540 your point literally makes no sense. What you're describing is LITERALLY coercion. Putting a condition on the pressured decision to sign? That's WRONG. And you're proving caps point 😂 you just admitted to it being manipulated, which is exactly what Caps point was, that agendas and power leads to corruption. Doesn't matter if they knew it at the time or not, the point is that the reason NOT to sign is because of the possibility of hidden agendas
@@jesssss9973 it was Zemo who was manipulating Cap not the accords......how is putting a condition is coercion......they are not normal people.....using powers lead to death of innocents thats what they were showing(and its ture)......so they are putting a condition to work with UN or just live like a normal person......they want to avoid enhanced individuals from using their powers whenever and however they want......I get the point about agenda......thats why I said Cap isn't wrong but the world isn't wrong from stopping avengers from using their powers whenever and wherever they want......imagine that the person who died from Hulk's wreckage was your family......where will you go to get justice? Government isn't it? That's why governments want avengers to work with them so they can be answerable
@@prateekkhanna5540 How is this flying over your head? That's what this movie is proving, that it doesn't matter who it is. Zemo was manipulating everyone, he had an agenda, he has access to the facilities for interrogation. He wasn't just some nobody, he had an in with the system and it caused manipulation. Signing of the accords doesn't just mean that the UN would have to be the ones oppressing, it means ANYONE can have an agenda, and the Avengers have to abide by the signings otherwise they'll be fugitives. This is such common sense, cap was right not to sign.
Also this argument about civilian lives is so silly, signings of the accords doesn't ensure civilian safety 😂 Now villains can just trget whatever they want knowing there will be a slow process for the Avengers to get approval. So again Cap was right not to sign
I died when you guys mentioned the House of Commons 😂
R.I.P General Ross
i really didn’t get how no one understood that if the avengers weren’t there to stop any of the criminals and aliens there would far more damage then what the avengers did. what wanda did was an accident, she didn’t have her powers mastered at this point. hulk is just a destructive person, it’s not like he does it on purpose and bucky is literally brainwashed by a few words. if people think a battle between supes and villains isn’t gonna have destruction then that’s just poor thinking
I don’t think their thinking at all that’s why it’s a conflict cuz they just feel grief
iron man is still right
@@hikhik6441 lmao HOW? He himself doesn't even follow the accords in this movie or after
You could make literally the same argument for why the police force should function with 0 oversight "because the situation would be worse if they weren't there to help." More oversight and transparency is never a bad thing, but Cap fanboys seem to have blinders on in regards to this.
@@mieroth nah they agree with cap because he’s right and u can’t compare them to cops, like they can’t go anywhere because they have restrictions. Caps not my favorite avenger but he was right in this case
The dean has been awakened
I also with cap's side
William Hurt 💙 Thunderbolt Ross
Your list is wild... 😮
Everyone thinks this is an Avengers movie, ist not. Its a Captain America story FEATURING the Avengers. Still his movie
You guys really need to read comic books. Iron man series
Explains civil war. Iron man works for the government, Captain America for the people.
Please watch Black widow befor End game!! Just for Natasha 🤫
Thr after credits will spoil endgame if they do that
My guy really said a falcon is a dinosaur lol
Lol well technically he's not wrong
I just wanna say I'm Team Iron man in this movie, even though I'm always team Steve in every other movie ever. He's my most favourite. Just hear me out.
Both iron man and captain have changed over the course of these many movies. Captain in Avengers 1 was ready to do as he was told. And then figures out that Nick was using The Tessaract to do something else. Further realises that every organisation has its own agenda in Captain America 2. Captain gets more rogue with each movie.
On the other hand, for every damage caused by Iron man, he feels more guilt. Like vision says, challenge breeds catastrophe. And that's a very meaningful thing. Wanda happened because of Avengers 1 when we got the mind stone. Because Wanda messed with Iron man's head, he made Vision ( and Ultron) so even though it's Iron mans fault it's not completely his fault. Everyone has their part in whatever happened. Iron man has with time realised he has made awful mistakes and tries to rectify it by maybe sticking with the accords. He has his own selfish reasons- fixing things with pepper, fixing his guilt.
We also notice Captain almost agrees to sign the accord two times. The first time, we have Peggy's death. And her words from after life that make his feelings stronger.
I just have one thing to say. Iron man signed the accord, but still does whatever he wants. You know why? Because he can. They're the Avengers. They can sign something, but still act of necessity. They could have tried to amend it to become better, TOGETHER. Iron never said he wanted to completely follow the accord. He was ready to negotiate. Because he himself could never follow rules.
Captain decided to be selfish to protect his friend. He still didn't know for sure that Bucky, didn't do it he trusted him because he was his friend He also was selfish by not telling Tony the truth about the death of his parents, which is dishonest on his part. Imagine having something work with you, where your life depended on your coworkers, it takes a lot of trust. To fight together in a battle. Steve fought battles with Tony. I would never expect anyone, let alone Tony be able to handle that kind of betrayal. He does apologise later. Obviously, cuz CAP Is a great man.
Rip Willian Hurt...
People always miss the third side, the Wakandan side. They were going to sign the accords, yet still basically do whatever they want in secret like they always have. But Steve can't seem to be dishonest for the greater good.
I don't think that's an option for the Avengers tho. They're like celebrities, everyone knows them so wherever they go poeple will notice. Wakanda, on the other hand, is overlooked by other countries so it makes sense that they have more freedom to do what they want in secret.
@@Naahi95 its harder, indeed, but an option to strive for but perhaps be less effective than they'd like to be. Tony could have kept Spiderman as a secret that he could use as a proxy for certain missions. Steve could have kept Falcon more secretive, and of course they could hire ant man for things. Steve could have an extra suit that covers his face and not use a shield for secret missions. Tons of options.
I get where your tryna go with that but the difference is up until the black panther movie when they come to the US what incidents can you pick from the MCU that you could blame on Wakanda? There's a difference between doing what they want living peacefully on their own land and going to foreign countries causing damage(whether the Avengers had good or bad intentions is a whole different angle)
@@Jacoc323 they were free to not sign the accords. But they wanted to hide their power to help act to save people of the world. It's not just about retribution for wrongs, but a compulsion to act on the counsils deicion, which they were going to lie about their power.
I don’t think I would trust the Avengers to do what they want with zero oversight. What happened to Zemos family could happen to anyone
Love your reactions, you guys should do the show "Once Upon a Time"🍎
And yet again we see Tony trying to control everything /one around him. How did that work out the last time? Don't people usually die in a Civil War, I thought War Machine would be it when he fell from that height (spam in a can )...One thing, I wish they would have stuck more to the comic book version.
19:57 True. I always forget that this is a Captain America movie. In my mind, it's an Avengers movie!😂😂
"Whats TBD?"
what time today will thor ragnarok be on patreon
Can you guys react to some... or all of the Christo Nolan movies
Lol yes it’s in Nigeria it’s pronounced le-gus. Not la-gos
Captain America, typically represents what is righteous. A very high moral compass. America does not live up to that. There are many in America that strive to be that. But there are also many that are selfish & ego driven, like Stark. We all try to think of ourselves in the Captain America image. But at the end of the day, we have to acknowledge we are a mix of both. But, I would say this. I truly do not believe that our government represents us well at all. Most of what they do, goes against our better judgment. It's almost as if Hydra has taken over.
To me, Captain America was against type in this movie. He is supposed to be the ultimate soldier willing to fight for freedom, but he was a soldier who was part of an army that took orders and was sent by superiors to where they were told to fight. This movie had him rejecting that, saying he won’t fight where his country sends him when they need him, he will decide where he will fight and when.
There is a long history in the comic books of Cap disobeying directives from the U.S. government when he believes that they're not acting in the interests of freedom and liberty. There have even been two separate occasions when he resigned as Captain America because he refused to follow along with the government. Steve was acting completely in character in this film.
There is a perfect line in the comics from Steve Rogers I’m going to quote right here. “The colours on my costume doesn’t represent who I fight for, but for what I believe in.”
That began back in The Winter Soldier, for obvious reasons.
His story started out with him following orders now he’s realizing they have their own agendas as he said
Iron Man movies: Terrorism
Captain America movies: Avengers
I’m looking at Captain America 1 and 2, don’t see the Avengers parallels.
@@theomnigamer9177 Captain America: Winter soldier had Avengers parallel.
Hesam M Because Fury and Widow is in it? They’re also in Iron Man 2.
If anything the Captain America films show us that HYDRA has a long legacy, even after the Red Skull died. When the Second film finished it showed us that HYDRA agents, and in Civil War some agents are living normal lives but holding onto the past and not burning it away. Also Siberia.
I’m just gonna keep on asking until you answer
To get so worked up over the title of the film to the point that it ruins your enjoyment of the film, is really damn sad.
I'm just gonna put this out there; There is a reason why this conflict happened under the "Captain America" arc. Which side is right? Never take sides against Cap in a war of morals.
y'all gotta read a little bit of comics fr
I don't like this one so much, but it's still WAY better than the comic story it's based on.
In the comics Tony is a straight up villain. They tone it way down for this movie.
@@Naahi95 Civil War turned me off Marvel for a long time.
19:59 you're right, it DOES seem like Avengers 2.5 instead of a captain america movie. *screams in frustration bc Serpent Society *
Team Cap, the only logical side.
pd: I *really* didn't like Vision in this movie. Rhoades's injury was all his fault. Plus he was acting super arrogant for some reason
Team cap
my hatred for captain america started w this movie and still remains to this day
My hatred for Iron Man escalated with this movie
@@TheSmartgirl101 same, it's really frustating watching Tony make mistake after mistake and divide the group because of it.
I don't hate either of them. I think the beauty of this movie is that they were both right and wrong, they both made mistakes but you can understand their reasoning.
Tony wanted Bucky to die for killing his parents while he himself got off scott free for all the people he killed by building a murder bot. Tony is fully responsible for every death in Sarkovia yet he walked away clean. In the real world all his tech would have been confiscated and he would be barred from any research at minimum.
Haha you’re forgetting Bruce banner?
Oh and let’s not forget that because of this we have Vision.
Let’s not forget how important Vision is later on?
Right right no wonder your comment has been disliked so much…
This was an emotion moment not a government issue he wanted to kill Bucky for killing his parents and he felt bad for what happened so he wanted to sign the accords as well for that reason whole point
What? No come on? He did all that because of Wanda. If not for Tony we wouldn't have vision. So on and so forth. If not for Tony, the entire New York would be in ashes RN. He decided to put his life on the line to save Newyork from the stupid Nuke. Better watch the movies all ove ragai. With a fresh unbiased perspective.
Dhairiya Sundar Just because there are reasons, does not mean that save him from getting all his tech retrieved by the government. Especially if you made a genocidal AI that would drop a city and kill all life on Earth. Even when it failed, it the rubble killed lots of people. It’s not a matter of pointing fingers, because if that was the case, school shooters who had issues would get away scott free. Fresh unbiased opinion is how the world sees the Avengers in universe. While they do save the world, they cause a lot of damage, with lives lost people have grudges.
Fully responsible? Oh sure, lets all forget about Wanda messing with his and Hulk's head.
Still think the one mistake of this movie was letting Cap win so easily. Maybe there was not enough budget to show all the power Iron man could have used in the fight.
In the last fight Tony is in an enclosed space. He is not going to be hard to hit neither is he going to be fast. He is also just trying to kill Bucky, without collapsing the entire structure they’re in. You can see when Tony activated his thrusters when Steve lifted him up, he panicked. He is not used to fighting in enclosed spaces with the Iron Man suit as it does not work well. Tony’s last mistake in the fight was putting his arms in front of his face. Steve was banking on that since, once he did that, the suit would de power when Steve struck it with his shield. The Iron Man suits aren’t invincible or as powerful as people think they are in the MCU. I remember how the Mark 42 got completely shattered when it flew into a semi.
2ssv1 was bound to leave tony weak so its probably fair he was defeated mentally as well not just physically
RIP William Hurt