When Has The Left Gone Too Far?
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
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#communism #socialism #leftism
As a side note I find it hilarious that the word for “bundle of sticks” in Italian that fascism gets it’s name from would essentially be “faggot” in English.
I cannot even type the English word...
"You could make the argument that hating the swastica is in fact racist... but that's a troll's argument"
oh Dev, you have no idea what you've unleased
@Thomas Davis that 4chan dude needs to team up with russia man and florida man. they would be the worlds most epic superhero team
What about Alabama man.
Fun fact: You can get around it by calling it a Manji (the name of the symbol in Asian cultures)
@@shadowangel6359 Its still called the swastika in Hindu culture
@@29-arnavsamant97 While you are right, it is referred to as a Manji in Buddhism
"When Has The Left Gone Too Far?" Jordan Peterson asked the Lefties.
But they didn't dare to answer.
When Jordan Peterson is marched into the mass grave.
yeah i remember him asking the question at some point, so i tried to give it my best shot at answering it
@@ShortFatOtaku IIRC it was here ruclips.net/video/GxYimeaoea0/видео.html
And the other pundits evaded the question constantly.
@@ShortFatOtaku Think he reached the same conclusion as you did too
From what I remember, they replied with "ORANGE MAN BAD!"
Jordan Peterson sounds a lot less frog-like today
I was inspired by his asking this question in a debate with uh, i forget, some angry black fellow. I decided to try and answer it myself.
@@ShortFatOtaku Michael Eric Dyson, race-baiter extraordinaire.
Comparing "equality of outcome" as the opposite extreme to the "racial superiority" extreme is a proper gut punching point. Very good.
slightlytwistedagain I think I finally saw equality of outcome work when some Antifa counter protestors at a KKK rally burnt and destroyed the flag of Israel.
Doesn't really make sense either. What if you wanted equality of outcome in an ethno national state?
Matthew Fox kind of what happened in Germany up to 1945 except that the Jews got all the publicity
Matthew Fox yeah....that was a little dark. But kind of true
In regards to tonight's stream:
Don't worry about us. Sort yourself out. Relationships are worth more than some internet plebs.
thank you very much.
To the first question:
I would, making fun of Hitler is basicly the same.
Yeah but if you make fun of Hitler people think you associate with him.
@@user-pr1dh2bw6k Picture of Auschwitz, but laid out like a Summer Camp advert?
Jordan Peterson asked Michael Dyson this very question. He didn't get an answer either.
YEAH that debate is where I got the inspiration.
@@ShortFatOtaku I find your reasoning spot on for why the left in general will never admit when they've gone too far.
And also: yay senpai noticed me.
@@MMDelta9 jeans i will always notice you, you watch my twitch!
Jordan Peterson has asked this question in a few different talks, and provided the same answer as SFO (don't think he did it in the Dyson "debate" though). When you reach the point were equity is being valued over equality, you've gone too far.
So, funny thing about walls and barriers...
The most basic natural barrier is the membrane of a cell. Break it down and the cell dies. Don't allow anything in or out and the cell dies. Really makes you think...
Not comparable to society, if you want to use biology than a whole body would be better, it consumes (resources) and excretes (waste) and has a brain (the legislative branch), white blood cells keeling out hostile foreign agents (immigration), and a cardio-vascular system (infrastructure).
@@-haclong2366 And when you remove your barrier, skin, you die, quite painful as skinning alive can be.
@@-haclong2366
The purpose of consuming (resources) is to provide nutrients so that the cells, (the people/nation) can survive. The probiotics microorganisms (immigrants) one consumes are the symbiotes in your body (the nation/state) to help the body function more effectively. When these symbiotic organisms gain a large enough population within the body, it will disrupt the body's ability to survive by overconsuming or overproducing the necessary nutrients the body consumes thus starving or poisoning the body. At this point the body either has to expel or destroy these organisms or it will die. The same thing applies to cancer (traitors). The body's immune response (law enforcement), or white blood cells in your argument, is there to deal with foreign pathogens (enemies), the overgrowth of symbiotic organisms, and cancer cells.
When you're on the side who wants control over everything you know it has become evil.
what is that side called?
@@comrademartinofrappuccino authoritarian left or authoritarian right
Good point
Their lack of disgust comes from lack of knowledge.
Lack of morals and spirituality, too.
With regards to the "Equal opportunity vs. Equal outcome" debate, I've heard quite a few leftists say that they oppose equality of outcome but are all for equality of opportunity, but they might not define it in the same way that centrists or conservatives do.
For those in the centre or to the right, the "opportunity" they're referring to is being able to lift oneself out of poverty and enjoy life the way they want to regardless of initial resources, or simply not be restricted from rights and occupations based on their own identities.
By contrast, the left may define "opportunity" as the potential to rise to the very top of the "social hierarchy" whether the individual wants to or not (though the left thinks that everybody wants to rule the world - referencing Tears For Fears ;)), so that's why they think that outcome is an indicator of opportunity or in some cases that you cannot have equal opportunity without equal outcome. Hence why the left don't just strive for equal rights but also "equal representation", however arbitrarily they want to define it.
I once read a Quora user's take on equality of opportunity - that they believe that people should work according to their ability even if they don't produce the same output, but nobody should be able to pass the outcomes of their successes on to their offspring giving them an unfair advantage. They didn't support instant equality of outcome, where everyone works at the same pace and as successfully as each other, but rather they implicitly supported delayed equality of outcome, where the state simply seizes any excess property and redistributes it to everyone, creating an equal outcome from the notion of, "you've enjoyed your acknowledgement of winning for long enough, now share your prize money out with everyone else or we'll arrest you."
How on earth would a society like that function properly? It would be the Soviet Union all over again - sacrificing liberty for the sake of equality. Face it commies - on planet earth, what you win is yours to keep, even if you use it selfishly. If everybody wins in the end, nobody does.
5:16 - Tyranny and freedom are not bound to the left/right spectrum, the left are just as capable as the right at being authoritarians.
People in Eastern Europe don't have the same problem as the West, when it comes to identifying the terrors behind the Swastika and the Hammer & Sickle, as they have experienced the evils of both and find both to be horrific. Here in the West we associate WWII as fighting the Nazis, which is why I believe we tend to hold a greater disdain towards them, and why Communism is seen as a something _too far away_ to worry about. It's all about education, people don't see Communism as evil because they were never taught about its atrocities as much as they were with the Nazis.
We weren't taught the atrocities of Communism because they infiltrated and brainwashed the people in the education system. Look up Yuri Bezmenov's 1984 interview, or the various campus riots that sprung up over the Vietnam war a war against that communist state. Which was the only such war in our history the media worked tooth and nail to "report" as they threw their own nation under the bus as genocidal freaks. We still have several award winning "journos" from shit tier rags like the New York Times(who has a long history of covering for Communists like Stalin) who literally advocate for the former Vietnamese communist regime *to this day*
@@jacobblanton5179 I've seen the interview, it's fucking scary shit.
As an American conservative my moral compass is centered around rights and freedom. Left and right are nonsense.
It is also important to note that the last Fascist regime (Estado Español) ended in 1976, meanwhile there are still several Socialist states today. And while there are some Spanish people trying to excuse Fascism today, they are whole governments actively advocating Socialism.
Communists do invoke a sense of disgust in me.
The left has gone too far when someone watches Star Trek and thinks "hey maybe human nature won't exist in the future!"
Everyone knows it's much more like Babylon 5. Hahaha. Nice channel SFO (EDIT: spelling)
Roger Furlong
Or the future could be like starship troopers. The book version I mean.
We have plenty of signs of the left going too far, let me ask you this question, "why do we not use the honour system in our trading practices"?, I could then go into the question "why did Britten use ration books well into the 60s after WW2"?, next I'll direct your attention to the riots within the United States where black men were justly shot by police and the looters of those riots the press said "those looters are stealing to survive", note that one of those stores was a black business who sold hair weave products and were surviving while running with a 40 inch flat screen tv.
Fact is for communism and marxism to work everyone needs to be governed more than the system we have at this time. Communism invites chaos and is far from been a left learning ideal when put into practice, for Communism is a full on Ordered Structure.
If the extreme Right's highest value is order, the extreme Left's highest value is equality. Kurt Vonegut's short story "Harrison Bergeron" is an excellent thought experiment in equality gone too far.
I think a big problem with answering these kind of questions is that there is no clear definition of left and right.
Is it socialism and capitalism?
Is it globalism and nationalism?
Is it collectivism and individualism?
Is it all of them?
Is it none of them?
Nobody knows.
What I know is just that it is definitly NOT liberalism and authoritarianism, since on both sides there are people who value liberty and others who want to controll everything.
The fasces used to be depicted on the back of the US 10 cent piece. See the Mercury Dime.
It is still prominently depicted in Congress.
And it's still the symbol that represents the State in France (look at a passport or anywhere where there is a symbolisation of the State itself). Because this was a symbol of the State back during the roman era and it carried over trough time, and this is exactly what it meant in Italy, the symbol just represented the State and the ideology simply revolved around the concept of the State.
So still happy that this symbol hasn't been vilified, it doesn't deserve it and if it were to be vilified, then you know that we are in for the worst to come because now they have turned completely anarchist
jordan peterson is that you
Guess he took over "some" of his viewpoints.
JP asked the title of this video of his opponent in a debate like a year ago, I just watched it and got inspired to try and answer it myself.
@@ShortFatOtaku JP also put forward the same answer, when people start advocating for equity over equality, you've got some serious issues to work out.
@@broutefoin Yeah I was kinda hoping for an analysis and/or answer that was in any way different from Jordan Petersons :P not that I have anything against the guy, I just don't see what the point of copy+pasting his argument is.
I'm seeing SFO but hearing Jordan Peterson
Good sources, man
JPB is a bit more articulate on that. He identifies two key things: jealousy and revenge. Claiming injustices where there aren't any, is a way to rationalize their jealousy. The rhetoric of equality of outcome is the way they're going to address the jealousy, by punishing those they want to take things from.
this is really informative! I'm loving these more serious videos from you, I like the way you are charitable with the opposing view, and then calmly rebuke it. I've probably learnt more from this than in my 3 years in college studying politics...
thank you!
@@ShortFatOtaku I much prefer it too! Thanks for your awesome work! Keep it up!
The bias towards the left chaos against the right order is so pervasive, I wasn't even allowed to betray Sheogorath to join Jygallag! Lol
i'd love to have a fascist joke poster similar to the one you shown, it would be hilarious!
or one like, Welcome to camp! Like a summer camp but like you know, the nazi kind.
@@ME-ki7vq LOL
How do you differenciate left from right? The scale I know has "parent state" on the left and every man for himself on the right. Such division places nacional socialism and fascism on the left and left center respectively. Both have more or less state controled economy. Fascists held critical industries under the dirrect influence of state.
The fact, that one tried to exterminate all other people for being different and the other held believe that war is the highest art a man can do doesn´t place them on the right. Enforcing influence upon others makes movement dictatorial, not right wing.
technically the "swastika" is actually universal, as its been found in greek, proto Germanic tribe carvings, celtic etc, its only just more commonly used in modern day by Asiatic people
I think the greater repulsion of Nazis over Communists has a lot to do with conditioning and the distance of time. Nazis were effectively wiped out almost 70 years ago but have been used as a standard go to bad guy that whole time and as such became some kind of mythical boogiemen. A go to standard for Satan himself if you will.
On top of that, as Aydin Paladin has also covered some of political jousting that has been going on in social science all that same time that really seems to come down to trying to establish an all or nothing binary that tries to enforce the idea "Nazis bad and anything that fought against Nazis is good. " Which in more recent years have morphed into the current purity spiral where everybody right of Stalin is considered a Nazi now.
Red Dog Dragon thats how you make a fake religion. Its scarier when the government/msm is in on it too. Making them drink the koolaid, ya know?
ruclips.net/video/RJfXJhs-A7k/видео.html
The Left v. Right paradigm is irrelevant. It's all about Libertarianism v. Authoritarianism.
I would prefer Individualism v. Collectivism, less ideological baggage.
In libertarianism its not enough to just consider goverment as malign force, every authority given ability to grow will ultimately turn tyrannical.
In every case it is the same, establishment of unquestionable authority, this is the breaking point no matter at what point in history you look.
Da Voodoo so your an anarchists. This is in fact what Communism wants, anarchy I mean. They want to take over the government of course are hold supreme power but they do this to tear down societies intuitions and “re-distribute” wealth. Their ultimate goal is to have no government. So ultimately Libertarians and communists want the same goal. That’s maybe why they fought on the same side in he Spanish Civil War.
Quite opposite, im not against goverment and i dont consider every bill that goes through parliament as worst thing that can happen.
I just see the flaw in thinking that elected goverment is in fact worse than unelected board of directors.
I'd say you're wrong about the swastika being non-white. Some of the earliest swastikas found if not the earliest are from Europe and the Neolithic era to boot iirc. It was also very popular in Scandinavia during the 1800's and served as a logo for ASEA a Swedish electric company. They changed the logo 1933 though because of the nazis but you can still find plenty of old electrical boxes with the the original logo. It's often called sun cross or hooked cross originally here. The Finnish air force used to have a blue swastika on white background too, unrelated to the nazis.
While true I think the Nazi party themselves were still adopting the asian version moreso because of their fascination with the aryan race (which does originate from Asia) where the symbol was deeply connected spiritually. Granted the idea of the aryans was minstranslated and misconstrued in the 1800's, somehow changing from an indo iranian hindi ethnicity to that of blonde white people.So yeah, the swastika in Europe does predate Hitler but he specifically chose it from being related to the aryan ideal.
@@ORLY911 Very likely that the nazis took it from there. Just saying that the swastika itself isn't exclusively an Asian symbol.
When they turn bustling atheist movements into wastelands. Everything after that was just bonus points.
Dave has very good taste in posters
Thought so myself, looks like something from the people's cube.
I now have a way to troll people in a way that I’d enjoy
Finally someone is talking about this, its the same with the Che t shirts
Otaku, the Fascis is still being used in my home cantons insignia, and I love it.
It‘s St. Gallen, Switzerland.
Well ofc it's Switzerland
I’d say since the introduction and widespread acceptance amongst the politically active section of the left of the progressive stack and their current goal of not attempting to end oppression, but instead be the oppressors.
“Freedom is the left’s domain”? Not on the scale I usually refer to. Nor the compass you’re fond of.
I remember on a video I cant remember what it was other than dealing with communism, reading the comments about survivors from warsawpact countries in eastern europe, talking terrible living conditions and oppressive government, straight from them. And people were telling him he made it up or it didn't happen or he was exaggerating. Sounds eerily similar to holocaust denial doesn't it? All the people saying that were indeed the communism was never tried and far left types.
Thank you for answering this question for me! It has been bugging me for years.
I have that poster. Hung it next to my dad's computer. He laughed at it and we mutually hate it.
On the note of freedom, when tested on moral foundations left-leaning participants actually score lower on their love of liberty than conservatives. Rather, their major moral values tend to align with ideas like "fairness" and "care."
That's because the fascias was used on U.S government seals and other government issued stuff like money etc... for years long long before WWII and still is to this day. The manji did not have such fortune/luck in the west. The manji was used all the time in the east it was used for hundreds of years for lots of different reasons. When the Nazis co-opted it the new bad meaning did not stick in the east and is why is still used today in Asia.
So, I guess you could say we need... Chaos Control. ... I'll see myself out.
I... was not expecting this video to start feeling like a D&D alignment thesis halfway in. But it did. And now I'm scared.
I think we’re missing something important here though... since when is nazism a right wing ideology?
Since the "socialism" in it stands for "Prussian Socialism". The whole "for nation and race" jazz.
Wait, if their objective is to remove borders of any kind... this reminds me a lot of human instrumentality...
Equality of outcome in one easy step: stop dividing people into groups based on their inherent and immutable traits.
Naive I know. Though if identity politics were to stop creating fissures in our societies, we would likely get there in a few generations, as things become normalised and prejudices die out.
We're hurtling towards becoming an ever more interconnected global society. So wherever the devolution of powers ends up, I expect tribalism to decline overall.
Thanks for the thought provoking video.
Minor correction: the Swastika and it's clockwise-facing counterpart the Swavastika aren't solely Indian religious symbols. Virtually every culture on earth on every corner of the globe used some variant of these two symbols, from the Americas, to Europe, to Africa, to Asia. They are both universal symbols representing the sun, with the Swastika representing life, light, and creation, and the Swavastika representing death, darkness, and destruction. The most likely place where Hitler got the idea of embracing the Swastika as his political symbol is a clocktower in the Austrian town he grew up in, which had its own Swastika near the top.
Maybe it's because nobody takes Russia seriously, perhaps?
Oh hey, an excellent video I love. =3
If I had one query, it would be does anyone think the swastika will ever be *not* primarily a sign of "evil?" Tbh, it seems like a mass social experiment to see if our society could effectively decide on one singular symbol being inherently negative, and observe how long, if forever, that perception stays on top.
My theory is that it's a done-deal for the West for a minimum of 200 years. I think I could see generations removed from the events trying to focus on the original meaning of the symbol; They would end up using other cultures as examples, given it's been abandoned by effectively all Western cultures, so fresh representations of the 1940s would be all but historical.
I'd disagree with some of your synthesis. Primarily, I'd disagree that fascism is right wing. It's essentially racially motivated authoritarian dictatorships. So, identity politics and big government. That's leftwing.
The left loves freedom? Not the left we have right now. I also don't think fascism is a right wing idea, at least not as the left and right stand today. The current left has much more in common with Nazi Germany than the right currently does. Small government, personal responsibility, freedom of the individual and strong borders would be what the right seems to stand for, while the left seeks to impose a monoculture of "diversity" and have the government control as much of society as it can manage. Remember Nazi is shorthand for National Socialism and last time I checked socualsim is a left wing concept.
Addressing your title; "When has the left gone too far?" It depends on who you ask. Ask a hard-core conservative: allowing gay marriage. Ask a hard-core leftist: never. Ask a normal sane person anywhere else on the spectrum: open reality denial and discrimination against groups they consider "privileged."
1:54 it is not only an Asian symbol, it is found EVERYWHERE in pagan culture. The celts had it, the slavs had it, the norse people had it. Its everywhere
Its funny how the Left can be so easily characterized but the right seems more overeaching in terms of people. Maybe I'm wrong tho I dunno
Rather than reacting to your feeling of disgust and rationalizing actions, reason trough it and do not let a feeling take control.
The swastika is hated because it’s easy to draw. Across the western world it is doodled by children on desks and books as a semi-conscious ‘rebellion’ and the reaction is normally swift and severe. Therefore it’s constantly being reinforced as a taboo. By contrast the hammer and sickle isn’t quite so easy to draw so you have to think a bit more consciously about drawing it. Add to the fact we were actually at war with people using the swastika then you have the taboo being reinforced over and over again.
Interesting theory however it is important to consider libertarianism which is considered to be both left and right. Libertarianism being the belief that all strong federal government's turn tyrannical and should be checked with power of the people
The clear cut boundary between the moderate left and the fringe left simply cannot exist, because there are always things for which to SOMEONE the ends will always justify the means. Take the chernobil - it took just 6 DAYS to establish the exclusion zone, cover the ground zero and clear the area of potentially volatile debree. Imagine what would happen if the fukushima's overseer would take charge of clearing the chernobil? The guy who took weeks just to set up the heavy machinery and called the radioactive leakage to the ocean "a mild inconvenience" because he could have done nothing about it without killing thousands of skilled workers and wouldn't want a global panic.
I didn't plan to scale someone's extremists tendencies through hygiene standards but hey lol
Great summary of Jordan Peterson's 12 rules for life dude
Good video. Seems like the center left is already heading right for equality of outcome. Hard to call it out at that point.
This is an intellectually satisfying rant
I feel like this new wave of leftism is like a third great awakening but with little of the cultural and social benefits that the first two caused
4:49 We do, except that even the very, very moderate and rational left doesn't recognize it, possibly due to that disgust insensitivity that you alluded to. That point is when the left seeks power.
5:33 Not really. Chaos has a role in the well-being of people on the personal level. There is no order to things like who we love, or the decision to marry or start a family. There is no structure to these things, nor rules, nor predictable results. Chaos is the enemy of a stable and safe society, however. Societies do not advance by chaos, but by order turned to moral ends.
Wilbur Wilberforce did not call mobs into the streets, but used the laws and structures of the orderly British society to divorce England from slavery. The social "revolutionaries" of the 1960s civil rights movement in the United States tightly stage-managed their efforts, using tools like litigation to alter the established order, while their "mobs" were usually well-dressed, well-groomed, orderly, and law-abiding. Reverend Martin Luther King Jr called for the law to change, using principles of a system of order (Christianity) to appeal to another, and what he was demanding was that an orderly change be made using the existing structures of the society.
Speaking of Martin Luther, his revolution against the Catholic Church was begun by stating his grievances and calling for orderly dialogue by posting notice of those grievances on a chapel door. One of the chief components of his success was that he spoke against disorder and violence, and when called before a hostile forum to defend his views, he showed deference to the established order and went to the Diet of Worms.
We did not come to encompass sanitation, or disease, or the airplane, or any other social good by the operations of chaos, but by a very rational, meticulous, orderly process. Revolutions upend society, but we often suffer the weakness of hindsight, seeing the revolution as good because of the structural solutions imposed on the society to repair the problems the revolution caused were good things. All revolutions are the tool of desperation because they are never good for the society, but like amputation of a gangrenous limb, a necessary evil. They are always the last resort when all attempts to proceed in an orderly and structured way fail. Chaos does not better a society; it breaks the misaligned limb and requires order to come along and set the bone.
centrism is the only adult ideology
It's because the people who see communism as not as bad are always the people who never had to live through the horrors of communism, nor the remaining damage left over post communism. At university I met a lot of people from Eastern European countries who usually always saw communism in the same way that other people see fascism, because they have seen the damage caused by communism on a daily basis and so are under no illusion as to how more "tolerable" it is
"But borders are poisonous to the left, because borders restrict freedom, and *freedom is fundamentally the Left's domain*".
That last part - U WOT M8.
freedom and order are polar opposites - freedom is philosophically the left's domain as they want to be free from the ordered structures of the right. freedom is not, in practice, the modern left's domain obviously, but i'm talking about political philosophy here
Yes, I see where you're coming from now.
You do know the party also means the political party which was more prevalent in communist regimes than in facist regimes
actually the swastika or the broken Cross or whatever you want to call it has been found in Europe dating back at least eight thousand years not to mention in North America in fact it was the symbol of the Navajo Nation up until 1941
@Andorian Nationalist
Well I mean just look at the similarities between Clovis technology and solutrean technology
They went too far when they naturalised the debt.
3:54 as a fat lefty this makes me sad :C
Very well put. But I think some of your comparisons don't quite work out, even though I can't quite figure out why. The idea that Communism could be on the same side as "chaos" seems just completely bizarre. It just requires the most oppressively enforced structures imaginable. Also, it's not like the Fascists were the opposite of the Communists. In many ways they were more similar than different. Not least in their emphasis on order.
This can be solved in at least two ways: Either the Fascists and Communists were on largely the same side (either both right or both left, as I prefer), or chaos is not (exclusively) the domain of the left.
Either solution largely comes down to a redefinition of the terms left and right, which is sorely needed in any case.
Another solution of course would be that we are not speaking of strict dichotomies at all. That maybe left-right isn't a comprehensive view of politics, that chaos-order isn't a comprehensive view of society, etc.. That would go way beyond the scope of this comment section, beyond my limited understanding, and beyond my current level of fatigue.
NSDAP = NationalSOZIALISTISCHE Deutsche Arbeiter Partei. They were far left.
You are not wrong. Nazis and Bolsheviks had far more in common than they had differences. In the 1920s and 1930s Germany, nazis didn't even view the German communist party as their enemy. Their declared enemy were the liberal-democrats, i.e. the political center. Same for the communists.
I recently came cross an interesting concept that helps visualize the correct relationships. Commonly the left-right political spectrum is depicted as a line, with the communists to the far left and the nazis to the far right. And liberals/liberal-democrats in the center. But what if the line was bent in the shape of a horseshoe. One end of the horseshoe is the far right, the other the far left. And yet they are close to one another. Far closer than they are to the political center.
I gotta disagree, it's not racist to hate the swastika... it's just bigotry to hate the swastika. If it's wrong to hate other people for being something, and you consider race, sex, religion, sexual orientation, career ambition, and political alignment to be characteristics which a person can't help but have, then that also means you can't hold hatred towards those groups without being wrong yourself. So if you want everyone to be shown the same level of respect and be allowed to live their own life without being ostracized, then I applaud you, person who hates financially successful white straight male christian conservatives.
Honestly I think a big part of it is just we fought a relatively quick war with National Socialism and Fascism, whereas as the Soviet Union was around for a long time that it’s ideas just came to be passively tolerated (despite the best efforts of ardent cold warriors), and that it sort of just crumbled away rather than being smashed. (I know Franco stuck around till ‘75, but Spain was hardly the juggernaut on the world stage that National Socialist Germany or the Soviet Union was)
I don't know if it's far to say that the Swastika was taken from the Hindu usage but rather it's historical association with Aryan people. There was deep historical usage of the Swastika symbol throughout Germanic history, as well as other people's deemed to be of Aryan racial origin.
The Communists got away with mass murder where the Fascists didn't for one simple reason:
There were no photographs.
Peterson has made a lot of the same points you make in the video, and this is actually a good summary of his comments about this subject, so well done. Appreciate the video and ill be showing it to some of my friends so we can talk about it.
I was inspired to attempt to try and answer the titular question, because JBP asked it to one of his debate opponents like a year ago, and he never got a suitable reply. I consider myself to be on the left, so I gave it a go of my own!
"There are infinite ways to be an outsider"-JBP
Nice Video
JP would be proud
Guilt by inalienable attributes is also on my list. Peterson has been asking thia question fooooor.... How long? 3 years? Well, publicly. Probably 30 or more in private. His and yours seem very accurate to me.
I think the reason why communism seems more palatable in general is because ussr was a ww2 ally (eventually).
Yeah such ally... Ask any middle-aged or elder person from countries behind Iron Curtain. Even facism is more friendly to citizen than communism all things considered.
I think the reason communism is considered more tolerable is because the deaths caused by fascists were based on race and whatnot, while the average uninformed person's view of communism is that it caused deaths out of incompetence. So fascists are seen largely as outright malevolent, while commies are just considered doofuses. The mistake is thinking that the doofus is any better than the fash, they both still caused untold misery and millions of deaths, so while communism isn't as malevolent in theory, it's still horrible in practice.
Communist deaths were absolutely not considered to be from incompetence. It was class struggle.
@@ShortFatOtaku I agree wholeheartedly, I meant the average person considers a lot of them to be from incompetence, meant to add that on before I commented. It's incorrect, yes, but from what I've seen many people consider communists to just be incompetent, with malevolent leaders.
@@ShortFatOtaku Edited for clarity
A great example of this is the story of Harrison Bergeron
also there isn't anything particularly "right" about the Nazi's, (pop culture dictates it is, simply because, circular logic style) its just an extreme authoritarian ideology, it doesn't believe in any sort of God, higher power, markets or nearly anything Right Wing beyond nationalism, and specific superiority, which either Left or Right is capable of, as seen in USSR, both sides can be Authoritarian, the only reason Nazi's are lumped with the right-wing is because its politically convenient to the modern times, no one was saying they were righties back in they day.
swastika was nearly universally occurring and not exclusively asian. The nazis probably lifted it from the norse not the asians.
To make the hammer and sickle more palatable, I like to think of it as the hammer of fascism smashing the Muslim crescent.
Actually fascist in Italy used for a bundle of sticks was used to describe trade unions. Mussolini was a marxist syndicalists after all as were most of the leaders of fascism in Italy. Fascism can be described as Italian socialism.
Equity. Enforcement of equity is probably when it goes too far.
And conversely, purity is when the right goes too far.
First, we should address if the Nazi regime is considered left or right leaning. A totalitarian regime based on a state controlling every aspect seems more of a leftist paradigm to me. If conservatism is based on the liberalism of the illustration, then it’s imposible to relate nazism with conservatives.
Second, there a two main point which makes que swastica and nazism a worst appreciation over other ideologies: both occidental capitalism and eastern communism condemned nazism during wwii, and Germany is the only country which has globally shown regret over its own processes. Have you heard any Russian politic making statements of regrets over commuting atrocities? Or Chinese? Or Cambodian?
To be fair, the bundle of sticks has been used by just about everyone, if you look at America's department seals, the eagle is often carrying a bundle of sticks, since it was used to represent democracy, communists probably used it too, it makes sense, the workers together are stronger than when apart, 1 big union, etc, I think native Americans also used it as a symbol, so that could be why the bundle of sticks is ok
Genocide and ethnic cleansing are not equal in terms of morality.
to answer your starting question, the nazis where seen as more targeted genociders as opposed to the communists, and therefore more evil
I don't know man, If I'm faced with 2 killers and can only kill one of them, Killer A wants to kill Every Black person, Killer B wants to kill everyone that disagrees with them... I would kill B in a heart beat, for no other reason than that Killer A might eventually run out of people to kill. Both killers are monsters, but Killer B is magnitudes worse.
I haven't ever thought about the fact that I didn't even know the word "communist" until I was in college. Even then, I can't think of a single time, all the way up to getting my Master's in anthropology, that I learned what people like Joseph Stalin or Mao Zedong did. However, I knew who Hitler was. I knew what nazis were. From a young age, I knew they were "evil" because I watched things like Indiana Jones. That's not a bad thing, but there was no equivalent for communist mass murderers.
The swastika is commonly found in archeological sites all over Europe as well. Nearly all European civilizations had the symbol, typically to refer to one god or another. It's not an Asian thing only. Christianity just erased most of its meaning in Europe.
The suncross is europian culture, Do not let the intersectionalists subvert our history!
Dude. Great video