Update Aug 8. The piano has been repaired. Apparently I have to wait for 2 weeks to get the repair bill because the guy at Yamaha who knows what the parts cost is on vacation. I will update here as soon as I can. Thanks for all your messages and comments. ❤
@@djshmul1 They replaced an optical transmitter board. It seems playable now, but I am really worried it will fail again. I am still waiting for the repair bill and will update this video when it comes.
Sorry about your bad experience. I have owned an AvantGrand N3 since 2010 as a practising instrument next to a Steinway grand piano. I have been extremely happy with my N3 and it is still in great condition, pretty much as good as when I got it. I have put it through thousands of hours of playing with anything from Disney songs to Chopin and Rachmaninov etudes and concertos. It has never let me down and has performed above expectations on top of being a very sleek-looking interior piece. I would definitively buy again.
Are you using midi recording? With my N1 I’ve never been able to get a full sensitivity range with midi. Even if I really hammer the key, I won’t get a 127 value, more like a 80 or something (don’t quite remember exactly, but the point is that I don’t get the full value range, which of course translate to less subtleties in the recording). Do you have the same issue? (I’m using pianoteq)
I’ve been using an AvantGrand N3 since 2014. I had it regulated once, five years ago. There’s been no problem other than that. So, I can say I'm a happy user, too.
I may not have made this video had Yamaha offered repair the piano and then only charge me for the parts used, labor, taxes, and shipping. Instead they wanted me to pay thousands up front, wait 6 weeks, and hope they guessed right on parts needed. This was not acceptable. Update 1: Because of this video Yamaha says will now send parts out and only charge me for the parts used for the repair plus shipping, taxes, and labour costs. Update 2: I ordered parts over 6 weeks ago, and I am still waiting, The dealer (Tom Lee Music in Vancouver) has not contacted me in those 6 weeks.
I think that is a good solution offered by Yamaha. No car dealer, for example, would give you a bunch of parts to try out for free. The N2 is a nice piano and still worth a lot of money. For a piece of technology, it did not depreciate too quickly.
@@dosgos So car dealers charge you 25% of the original purchase price of the car 6 weeks before they install parts in your vehicle? That sounds like a very bad deal.
Thanks for this video which just popped up as a recommend, as it reflects my experience with a Yamaha instrument a few years back. I’m in the UK and thought maybe I was being unreasonable when after buying one of the high end Clavinovas (I’m very pushed for space but required a ‘proper’ piano action) it started to fail in similar ways to your piano, and both Yamaha and the local dealer seemed incapable of dealing with it properly. It was eventually fixed under warranty after a great deal of tetchy back and forth, but within a few months keys had started dropping out again, and one of the internal speakers failed. Even after paying for a repair myself, within a few months the problems recurred. I sold it at considerable loss on eBay in the end as 'for parts'. It was junk and I felt I’d been ripped off. For comparison, an entry level Roland piano I used while away at work never missed a beat for years and was sold on. The Yamaha was replaced with another entry level Kawai and eventually a VPC1 and Pianoteq which I’d been using intermittently for a while (other software is available of course, this is just my favourite). This might be a better way to go as you don’t have to keep replacing instruments as the software advances. I was disappointed to put it mildly, as prior to this I’d never come across a piece of Yamaha gear that was no good: I have Yamaha outboard processors and a synth from the 80s which all still work fine, plus an SA 2000S guitar which is absolutely top dollar.
@@NeverCryWolf64 FAUX ARCHI FAUX VOUS RACONTEZ N'IMPORTE QUOI ! J'AI DEUX PIANOS NUMERIQUES DEPUIS PLUS DE 15 ET ILS SONT PARFAIT ! VOUS RACONTEZ N'IMPORTE QUOI !
@@jean-yves9924 FAUX ARCHI FAUX VOUS RACONTEZ N'IMPORTE QUOI ! J'AI DEUX PIANOS NUMERIQUES DEPUIS PLUS DE 15 ET ILS SONT PARFAIT ! VOUS RACONTEZ N'IMPORTE QUOI !
Which piano did you buy (I guess kawai, but which model?) How do you like it? I have the Kawai NV10 (Not the new 10S) and I love it. The new one is more expensive by a lot!
I was at the piano dealer a few weeks back. They had a Kawai CN29 on close out for around $1,500 it played beautifully, and sounded quite nice. You don't need $3.000.00 in parts.
YES I THINK IT WAS THE KAWAII CN29 I WAS ORIGINALLY INTERESTED IN. I HEARD SOMEONE PLAYING THAT PIANO ON RUclips AS A TEST PIANO AND I THOUGHT IT SOUNDED FANTASTIC. BUT IM HAPPY WITH THE CA79 KAWAII EXCEPT FOR ITS RECORDER WHICH PLAYS UP SOMETIMES. OTHER THAN THAT THERE ARE NO OTHER PROBLEMS.
It is sad to see a once great musical instrument maker decline so far as to be peddling expensive disposable pianos. They should have fixed this "lemon" for free. For about one-third of the repair cost they quoted you anyone can buy a new Korg B2 digital piano with hardwood stand and three pedals. The B2 has good key action and decent sound. You deserve better than what they sold you and I hope you wind up getting your money's worth.
Thanks for your review and saving me thousands on the N3X I was considering. Yamaha should have stood behind their product and repaired (parts and labor) for free! Because of your video and the excellence of Kawai electronic pianos, I bought from them.
Update July 14, 2023: I ordered parts to repair the piano, and they arrived 8 weeks later to the day. My dealer and Yamaha will attempt to repair it in the next few weeks. I will update here soon to let you know if the repair was sucessful, and how much it cost.
Sorry to hear about your hassle with the dealer and the instrument. Not discounting any of your unfortunate experience, but I wanted to share that I've owned an AvantGrand N1 for about 8 years and have really enjoyed it. It is one of the fully digital ones - no strings at all - so perhaps not as relevant to this thread. I've played it a lot! It is my main practice instrument - I bought it for the action - and I use it as my primary midi controller in my studio as well. As a professional pianist, and having played since I was a kid, my experience with Yamaha keyboards has been a little hit and miss. Their older P-90 era keyboards are workhorses! But their grands are inconsistent. I've played two that I thought were pleasurable, musical and reliable. The others over the years have felt unsatisfactory. I've found their uprights ok, but not great. I wish you the best in your search for a satisfying instrument.
There are no strings in this piano as well. They took grand piano key mechanics and added a set of sensors and a digital piano module to produce the sound. The problems are in the electronics on this instrument.
@@NeverCryWolf64 There is nothing "low tech" in acoustic piano. It is pretty high precision mechanics. With tens of small parts for each key. What makes you think it is cheaper is because there are much more professionals who can identify and fix issues. The most expensive part in the acoustic piano is cast iron and hard to break, soundboard can crack and be expensive to fix or replace as well, but that is unlikely. Unlike the computer board in a digital instrument, which can just croak like any other computer part.
I’m sorry to hear about this…what a headache. I have been considering the avantgrand myself so appreciate you sharing your experience. I suppose these hybrids are relatively new tech so there’s inherent risk there but you should expect better from Yamaha.
I know this comment is pretty old, but for new viewers: this tech is NOT new. In fact, the uploader's model, the N2, has been around since 2009. There is no updated model. Unlike others in the line up, they're still selling the exact same 2009 N2 model.
I actually have seen this before on my Yamaha Clavinova. A group of keys would occasionally stop working. I discovered that there was an alignment issue with the key-bed. If I torgued the key-bed I could get the keys to function again. For #3K you could get a new Rolland RD-2000 which is a helluva digital piano. It has a great action is built to be dragged from stage to stage. Performers refer to them as "Road Dogs".
@@NeverCryWolf64 seems like with one of each (and the digital could be pretty cheap) you get all of the benefits of the hybrid without needing a hybrid
I have a Yamaha MM8 for 9 years and a Yamaha clavinova about 20 years old, they are still working fine and they have had a proper hammering over the years. I think it’s just an unfortunate situation that can happen to anyone. Some years ago my brother bought a brand new Fiat Tipo and it broke down on the way home from the dealership 😂
Hi, have you been able to get a fix for the piano in the meantime? I just found this video by accident and thought i could share my experiences with you. Last week I found an old GT10 for free. The owner had already written it off because of the defective keys and she had already ordered a new digital piano. So she wanted to throw the GT10 away and thought maybe someone could use it after all. Luckily I found it. I was able to fix it yesterday. In my case, I only had to replace the 12 red LEDs that lead to the sensor bar under the keys via the light guide. Apparently, the LEDs lose intensity over time, which gradually leads to keys failing. I don't know if the construction is the same on your model, but I could imagine Yamaha using the same construction in many different hybrid pianos here. Greetings Andy
I don't know how old that piano is but the newer models in the industry definitely offer things we couldn't see back in the day for way cheaper, so im glad that is a thing nowadays
Most likely sensor issue. Assuming they have optical sensors for measuring key velocity etc, right? Not sure if those sorts of sensors are guarded against dust etc. I think heaps of people have an N2 - and at the moment, there doesn't appear to be similar reports of the same issue online etc. That is - not a 'common' or widespread issue. So Yamaha should really get stuck into it. As in - they get the physical unit to a technician that actually knows what they're doing. And identify the issue, and then proceed to fix it. And 0:36 - I'm sure the N2 sounds as good as analog/acoustic piano. Depends on what sort of music is being played. And I'm sure if played well, it's going to sound excellent - as good as an acoustic piano. I'm confident that if I were to play it - then it's going to definitely sound as good as any acoustic piano.
Just putting this out there that I have owned my AvantGrand N1 since 2016 and haven’t had any issues. But we have to be prepared for things to wear and break etc. I can understand it’s frustrating but as for the commenters saying they will completely boycott them is rather silly. Kawai and other hybrid pianos have the same capacity for failure. Also yours is the only video I have ever seen, so it’s not that they are falling apart all over the place. Glad you’ve managed to get it fixed tho bet that’s a relief, and like others have pointed out best make sure the new parts are covered by their own warranty
I couldn’t have stated it better myself. Sadly, the majority of these comments are gross over generalizations about the overall quality of these hybrid pianos in a very negative way. Many of these comments appear that they do not understand exactly what a hybrid piano is. And yes, I own an N1X that I am quite fond of and practice on daily on average of at least 3 hours. It has really improved my playing due to its action which as you know is quite substantial and the true acoustic action of a small/moderate grand. I hope your comment and my reply and other more knowledgeable comments about pleased hybrid owners remain and are not taken down. Thank you for posting your comment.
@@Maxime-ho9iv I think that’s very dependant on where you are in the world. I’m in the UK which is a relatively small area, where you could probably get a Yamaha technician fairly quickly. In other countries that are far bigger will probably struggle to get a tech without some sort of huge travel cost etc. I think over the coming years standard piano techs will get to grips with the hybrid technology and be able to fix them just as well as a Yamaha or Kawai technician
I have always preferred Kawai Novus series over Yamaha, Although I have heard of an issue like this in the past, it's so rare to see a malfunction of this sort on the Kawai Hybrids. The Novus 10s is an amazing hybrid that literally has the same Millenium 3 action from the GX- series of Grand Pianos. Overall, in my opinion, if you want a great quality Piano(digital,hybrid or acoustic) Kawai is the brand to go for. If you want a great quality Jet Ski, go with Yamaha. Kawai only makes piano products, and they are great at it.
I agrée. I have an Kawai RX6 grand and it’s pretty awesome. I also love the millennium 3 action. Their digital pianos are also fantastic. I love this brand.
Probe un novus 5 última actualización y no me gusta la pulsación muy blanda. Actualmente toco pianos de media cola en los hoteles. Los nuevos roland me gustó más. La pulsación es entre kawai Y yamaha
Never had any problems with my Yamaha Avantgrand piano. And have had it for 8 years. And the new one doesn't cause any problems either. You're probably one in a thousand. You don't have to advise against buying straight away.
Oh man, I'm so sorry for you. I almost bought a used N2 almost five years ago, but then decided on a new N1X. I am very happy with this to this day. A technician only had to come by once last year because the sustain pedal was squeaking a bit. But otherwise everything is good.
I had one of the first generation Yamaha Clavinovas when they came out , and while under warranty the action was so poor, you couldn't play rapid repeated notes. Yamaha had addressed the problem at the time and sent a technician out to replace all 88 leaf springs that were the action problem... It was an ok instrument and expensive even at that time .... but the memory was so limited that you could here this little digital sizzle as notes trailed off ... That being said , it still surpassed , at least in sound anyway a basic spinet home piano. Years later while working I bought a Kurzweil SP88X stage piano . I Loved everything about the piano .... the samples were second to none, and the action was perfect ... There was nothing I could play to trip it up . I'm not sure but I had heard that Fatar had a hand in the design of the action part of the board. I liked this piano so much , I bought one for home, already had a nice 3 way left, right, center , stereo setup , cabinets with 15's in them , and the sound was absolutely amazing ..... I'm still playing it today with no real desire to move on. I paid between $600-700 for it , and it just blows away other digital as well as many consoles, .... forget spines totally ....!! It has samples from a 9 ft. Grand in it ... A friend of mine, wanted my help in buying a med. Size Yamaha baby grand..... Nice piece of furniture, got one with a nice bright tone ... Feel was stiff but friendly... $15,000. ..... Couldn't wait to get home to play the Kurzweil right after the baby grand ..... And was Very Pleased with my purchase !!! It just sounds and feels amazing !
I had a similar thing happen to me. I bought a Yamaha Clavinova for $7000 in 2001. In 2018 is started to have static crackling sounds. I got a partial repair but it started up again. Long story short, it could not be fixed (I believe bad capacitors that leaked). I suppose 17 years is good for an electronic/ computer device. But never again will I get locked into a “nice cabinet” piano. Only stage-type pianos around $1000-1500.
I'm not buying any more laptop computers. Mini computers work very well with an inexpensive TV. The keybords are USB plug-in, and can be expensively replaced too. ruclips.net/video/tBGGQJ_tmy4/видео.html
Be sure and play as many acoustics as you can. It will help you to find what your tonal and touch preference is. Also do plenty of research. It's a good thing to be an informed buyer.
I am the original owner. I have palyed the piano very little, but it is out of warranty now. My main objection is having to pay up front for very expensive parts, and then wait 6 weeks for a repair when no one is really sure what is wrong.
For the action Alone , I think it would still be good for something … especially if it may have midi out ports … to trigger external sound sources via midi out port ..
I have a now-5 year old Kawai CA97, it's had 3 services due to sticking pads, however I can't fault Kawai's dedication to its 5 year warranty (Sydney Australia). Prompt and as advertised. Sure, having to get it serviced was a little inconvenient but the three services were free and the last one seems to have fixed it permanently. Kawai may have fixed this issue with the CA99, not sure...
This is disappointing. I serviced electronics for decades and it was always an effort to get engineers to actually do troubleshooting. Swapping parts to find an issue shows a lack of troubleshooting skills. If the failure is there permnently the issue should be easily tracked with a mukltimeter and oscilloscope. I have a Yamaha digital piano and have been pleased with their service to this point. I wonder if a mom and pop electronics shop, if there is still one in your area, could give it a go. It sounds like a bad soldered connection. These, when intermittent, can cause hair to be pulled out. Yours should be easy to find. Good luck.
I completely agree John. They have no idea which parts are bad if any, and yet want me to pay up front for parts, wait 6 weeks, and hope the repair works. Does this seem reasonable?
@@NeverCryWolf64 , Trust me it has something to do with hammers whatever they look like, not making contact with the electronic sensor strip. which is probably an aluminum bar across the length of all the hammers. I have had computer keyboards where certain keys stop working. In that case you have to replace the keyboard, but in the case of a digital piano you would replace the sensor strip. There may be RUclips videos on it. I have seen some before. ruclips.net/user/results?search_query=Replacing+the+sensor+strip+in+a+digital+pianos ruclips.net/video/nORuyLx5MMk/видео.html
Our church piano, a Yamaha Clavinova CVP 609 in 2015, 7 years later in 2022 we started to have issues of dead notes. The service tech replaced a couple of the flexible digital circuit plates that interface with the keys, one per octave. Cost $400 NZD. Considering the use it got, we thought that was OK.
@@NeverCryWolf64 that's such a shame you are having these problems. One would think a company like Yamaha would be able to offer a solution? It is certainly a nice-looking instrument. Also, the dealer is NOT very helpful.
Well I was considering paying nearly $20k for the n3x instead of getting a c7 because of how big c7s are. Glad I saw this video. Thanks. Yamaha should have done the right thing here and replaced their clearly defective unit. Seeing how many have viewed this video, not only did they lose my purchase after this video It’s clear there’s probably a few hundred grand easy in lost sales. Yamaha marketing team better get with it. Epic fail.
Thank you very much for this post. If you have not done so already, might I suggest that you look at what Merriam Music stated in January 2023 about the longevity of digital pianos. While the whole of MM's post is generally relevant there are a couple of points which might be especially relevant to your case: 1. Given that the N2 is, as MM state, at the top end of digital pianos out there, then it would have been expected with normal use to have given you 10-15 years of trouble-free use (MM's estimate, not mine). With the actual very low usage in your case then one can assume that in effect you have had the equivalent of only one or two years of normal use (though if you left the piano switched on at the mains then even when the N2 was not in use and switched on at the keyboard, one conjectures that some degradation particularly of the electronic parts could still have occurred over the time the piano was 'not in use' (presumably you got your N2 c. 2009/10?). 2. In regard to the failure of the motherboard and other electrical parts of the instrument MM state: "When the motherboard or sensors will fail is fairly unpredictable, but we do find that these can fail with minimal use, but overall, this tends to occur at a very low percentage. Most manufacturers will have some type of fail rate on their electronics within a range of about 0.5% up to 2% or so." This suggests the possibility that your N2 might be/may have been part of the 'up to 2%' which fail, in other words part of the 'lemon' category. I hope the above is useful to you. Best wishes. P.S. By the way, you might be interested to learn that from my own standpoint your cautionary tale is timely: I am and have been the owner of digital pianos over the last 13 years, including an N2, an N3x, a Roland FP90x and currently a Roland LX708. I am currently considering upgrading to a Roland GP-9 (part of a new GP series comprising also the GP-3 and GP-6, which was released earlier this year and which has only just become available at dealer level). However, in my case I use the piano for at least a few hours daily and want my next instrument to last for a good 20+ years, not even partly because of an investment of money criterion but because I want some stability in the action of the piano that I use, whether that be a digital or an acoustic. So, like yourself I am now considering whether a used acoustic grand piano (in my case retrofitted with a good silent system which can be used as a digital option to the use of the same piano in its normal acoustic mode) might be a better fit with my criteria than the Roland GP-9. Though the latter comes with a 10-year warranty that will be of little consolation to me if the specific digital model I would get subsequently proves to fall within the up to 2% category that MM have mentioned.
Donal, I would recommend the Kawai Aures series. it's a full acoustic with the silent Aures system attached from the manufacturer. Although having a 3rd party system attached is okay. Keeping everything copasetic will net you longer and better results. Idk you budget range, but you can probably find a K500 Aures for about $15,000. I could talk all day about how much I love that instrument. I have the K300 Aures myself and it's amazing, the K500 simply has a better touch and deeper, better tones (because the strings are longer).
waiting "for 2 weeks to get the repair bill because the guy at Yamaha who knows what the parts cost is on vacation" is something unbelievable. I mean, it is Yamaha, a multimega international corporation, they own now Bossendorfer, and the price and the bills depennd on just one guy. Thanks for sharing your experiance with this instrument and Yamaha. We know now how Yamaha responds when the instruments fail.
Don't know if this helps or applies in this situation. My 3 year experience with Yamaha digital piano. They don't like Android phones near them. I don't know about IOS stuff, they work with Apple apps so maybe it's different. Here's what I discovered by just placing my android phone on the keys while playing. Certain keys would act up. Playing loud and rude, playing even when not played, or not sounding at all. Sometimes it would cause multiple keys to act up, then octaves,then 5ths and 4ths. I thought it was junk. Some times it malfunction led, some time not. I finally figured out not to place phone on keys or music desk. Good luck everyone, keep playing.
Every digital piano that I have owned eventually glitched after many hours of practice. I finally decided to get an acoustic. In ten years, a digital piano is worn out and obsolete. In those same ten years, an acoustic piano is just getting started in its service life.
Sorry, about your bad experience. Many subscribers ,like me, are still wondering how much money they changed you. Had have an N1X; it is two years old; so far no problems.
You could try a Yamaha or Kawai Silent Piano instead. They are proper a ousting pianos but when you slide the middle pedal to the left it puts it into digital mode and puts up a barrier to stop the hammers hitting the strings and you can then play it silently using headphones, or without if it has an in built-in speaker!
How can I get the piano off your hands? I'm in Victoria and can arrange pickup if you are in Vancouver. I was at Tom Lee's at Langford yesterday checking out these Hybrid models, I was checking RUclips for more information and saw your video. Please let me know, cheers
it's a shame it takes a youtube video for them to fix it. we are all different, but on principle i would not have accepted their 'attempt to repair' after this video was posted.
I'm so sorry to hear that. That sounds like to every pianists nightmare! I have an AnantGrand myself- an N3, and I love it. For years I was pianist/singer with The James Last Orchestra and he rented one for me to play on every tour. That's how I learned about it in the first place. I see that you posted this 11 months ago. I only hope that since then you have found a solution! Frankly, I'm shocked that your dealer didn't immediately take it back and give you a new one! Kind regards, Joe Dorff.
James Last! I wrote to him when I was a kid. I so wanted to play in his band. I remember working with a trumpet player much later. Henry Lowther, and he said what a great band it was to play in personally
Hello. First of all I would like to say that I love the sound of Yamaha and I have used their products for many years, but lately I have had these kinds of problems. first with my MOX 8 and then with different clavinovas like the CLP-765 GP. Notes that are triggered at maximum volume while you press the sustain pedal or as it happened with the MOX simply stops sounding, having to turn it off and on. I don't know what happens with this brand since they are not cheap products. They say it may be because of the humidity. I don't know but it is very sad that this happens with instruments of this category
I was very disappointed after a few years of owning a digital piano ... You ASSUME that it will be cheaper in the long run, because you don't need to tune it, etc. Then I discovered this sort of thing happens that you described in this video. Little rubber mats similar to those used for the rubber keys of calculators seem to have a limitation in their life span and cleaning them or replacing them is either expensive or quite a laborious task.The bottom line is that digital pianos have lots of flaws that show after time, like those contact points failing and you might not have to pay as much as what you pay for a nice acoustic piano, but in the long run digital pianos also have flaws in their design from the point of view that they will be a better investment than some acoustic pianos. And let's face it, there's nothing more majestic than playing a real grand piano
1:52 yea, that's really not how it should work...I would expect a serious dealer to come, take the piano and then AFTER they verified exactly what parts need to be changed they should tell you the exact estimated cost, and THEN you could decide if it's worth it or not. There's no way I'm gonna pay for something without even being sure it'll fix the issues. That's also kinda scummy in my opinion. I would also send a formal complaint to Yamaha about it. Good luck with your next piano ;)
The only problem I can imagine right now are some worn rubber contacts which make the contact with a PCB. These rubbers have a conductive layer underneath, usualy made of carbon. Over time, this layer can wear out. They should be fairly cheap and easy to replace.
The piano was repaired today. It was actually an optical transmitter board that was emitting a low signal. I will update this video soon to tell everyone about the repair, and how much it cost.
Appalling that yamaha didnt replace or repair it. Im poised sctually to get an avantgrand nux1A but now i will think twice, unless there is a warranty for at least five years ..didnt you have a warranty or dodnt the warranty back up the repair?
I guess the items like an AvantGrand , and other similar items come with , what I call , ‘Furniture Appeal ‘ But for me … as a musician … my priority is for a fine playing & sounding instrument . And because I like to record at home … sound & playability is EVERYTHING ‘Furniture Appeal’ is last in my mind … if any … It don’t mean a thing … to me ….. if an instrument doesn’t ‘swing’ ….. (if it doesn’t play well & sounds good ) Maybe just simply have the ‘internal ‘ aspects changed out by some other technician who’s not gonna rip you off …. Or if you might be a bit able to yourself … just change the midi strip to a more simpler & reliable midi strip … But for what they want you to pay … I agree with you …. To stop 🛑 while you’re ahead & look for better option
This is very unusual for an "n" series Yamaha Hybrid and I think you're being pretty poorly by your dealer. I've had my N1 for 10 years and have never had an issue with it and its been played very heavily. I hope you get it sorted out for 100's rather than 1000's. It certainly looks like an electronic fault rather than a mechanical one.
Both the dealer and Yamaha have treated me very badly. I finally ordered the thousands in parts. It has now been 6 and a half weeks and no word from either the dealer or Yamaha about when they will arrive.
I recommend anyone looking at digital pianos should really consider getting a Kawai VPC1 instead and using virtual pianos. Honestly it's going to end up cheaper, better sounding, and more future proof.
@@JoeLinux2000 I mean it’s high end sound but a lot cheaper than many digital pianos on the market which is my point. With these digital pianos you’re paying a lot for the cabinet and speakers when really the most important part is the action. Buy the best action you can and use VST. My two cents anyway.
@@EvanZamir I know people are very happy with the VPC1 and it seems to be one of the very best on the mass market today. If you compare it to this Yamaha Avant Grand it makes a lot of sense. I'm just saying the VPC1 may be more than most people need. I'm playing thye DGX-670 with the GHS action. There are many negative comments about the GHS action, but I'm totally fine with it, when combined with Pianoteq Pro. One of the good things about the DGX is there is no latency, and I can layer a Pianoterq Pro voice with an interal DGX voice. There resulting tone is better than either one played by itself. In fact my piano sounds very similar to the Roland LX 708 which is one of the best sounding digitals on the showroom floor. The total cost for my rig was around $2,500 which includes Pianoteq Pro and a computer to run it. I'm not sure of the price of an LX708 but I'm sure it must be around $7,500.00 or more., maybe close to $10,000.00 Purchasing over priced overly complex digitals is unnecessary for most people. So I do agree with you. The VPC1 would provide a very good action to drive a piano voice that can be upgraded as technology moves forward.
Don't these pianos come with 5 year warranty? or 10? It's sad that a brand like Yamaha takes that long to repair it. Was it under warranty? Why did they ask you to pay for it? Please tell me as I also want to buy one of these pianos and I need to know if Yamaha has bad quality and does not stand by their warranty. It would also help everybody. Don't fear Yamaha. They should build their reputation if it gets damaged by truth. Thank you for sharing.
I have asked him for the cost at least a few times and have not received any answer. I have a Yamaha N1X for almost 2 years and am very pleased with it and I practice daily 3-4 hours on it. If you look at the many comments there are a few others who are also happy with their Yamaha Avant Grands. Keep in mind that many of these negative comments come from people who do not understand what an Avant Grand is. I have just asked him again for a price. The warranty is 5 years and he states he’s had this piano for much longer than the warranty and has not played the piano much at all. I really hope he answers us with a final cost as he assured us he would months ago in August when the repair was made.
I'm so sorry you have to go thru this as a Yamaha fan Yamaha should sort you out for you to be happy and in order for them to keep their integrity at no further cost to you since no product is beyond it's backup. Regards Andre SA
Hi, if you gonna get rid of it, tell me, please. If it is possible to ship it to Norway, I'll take it and I think I can fix it for you. Just tell me.. well keep in touch. Best regards Ken Torkildsen, from Norway.
Hello again, for those of us who are waiting to find out how much the repair cost you would it be possible that you can tell us how much you paid? As you said in your last post 5 months ago when you stated the man from Yamaha was on vacation and you would tell us when he returned. At this point he may be on another vacation with the money you paid for the repair. Or just possibly the repair was not as costly as you anticipated. In either case please let us know what you paid as you assured us you would 5 months ago.
Maybe this is silly but do the keys have an electric metal to metal contact like an old analog joystick? If so you can just use an eraser on them. Just seems just like the issue that would plague arcade games many moons ago.
Well, I had the authorized dealer service person out 3 times to fix it, and they had a Yamaha expert on a video conference, and they could not fix it. They did bill me though... I doubt it is an easy fix...
Like I said probably out there but dirty contacts might not be something they thought if. They may not even exist in the piano, it just fits your symptoms
@@NeverCryWolf64 My experience with Yamaha customer support is that it's absolutely worthless. They never address the actual issue you are calling about, plus they really don't seem to care if the end user is happy with the product or not. Also the so called expert from Yamaha may have actually known very little about the piano. When I first called about my DGX the person answering the call had never even seen one, let alone repaired it. You would think there would be a repair manual on an instrument like that. Did they give you a parts list they think could be the problem? We can't help much if we don't know the specifics of the piano. We're just like the Yamaha agents.
I believe these pianos come with a 5 year Yamaha warranty that covers parts and labor. Did you buy it used? I don’t see how an electronic instrument wouldn’t last as long as a regular piano. There is no sound board to crack over time or tuning pins that get loose over time or hammers to wear out. If you bought new maybe you got a lemon. Or if you bought it used it could have been a lemon. Mine N3X has been working fine without issues since I purchased it 3 years ago.
I’ve been considering buying the nux1 and found this video when searching for repair info. I will consider getting an acoustic piano or just a chap stage piano now. Thanks and hope it gets repaired economically in the end.
They're replacing the nu1x with a different piano that has no optical sensor. Probably due to this same problem, i believe their entire line will move to magnets instead of optical
I disassembled at my own risk, my 88 keys Kronos and took out all keys, key by key until I get it right. I did the same with an old Yamaha organ that had some keys with poor contact. After I did it including potentiometers everything is playing as brand new for 0$ on the Yamaha. I would open the piano keybed myself until I understood was is going on...
Interesting. Unfortunately I think newer Hybrids are very complicated, and the parts that Yamaha want me to buy to try to see if they will fix the issues are not availble for sale to the public. They are not discrete components, but rather proprietary modules. This makes repair very expensive and tricky.
@@NeverCryWolf64 My option with Korg Kronos 88X was to buy a new keybed or send it for maintenance to apply grease (PFPE PTFE). But I suspected it would not be enough and I was right. I had to remove the grease from the guides and apply silicon and slice it to a thickness of a paper sheet and then apply the grease again after drying the silicon. No more plastic keys sound. On Korg Kronos 2 they fixed this issue. You may have the solution in your hands. Its ridiculous that they are charging you for a poorly conceived product. This is clearly a Quality issue away from optimal Pareto point, and should be addressed as so at Yamaha cost. The cost of Yamaha not doing it right may have higher cost impact than if they do. They have no idea of what is going on and some guy that studied Engineering and is curious from childhood and disassembles everything does? Come on! You deserve better than this! Are the sensors optical or rubber contact? If optical may be the led. If not may be the microchip that send and receives information. If rubber contact (I doubt it because its a hybrid hammer action) just clean it with alcohol 1 time and it will last another 20 years. Don't do it often though...be gentle.
@@joaonuno439 Thanks for your input and understanding. The Korg (as far as I understand) is completely electronic, whereas mine is a hybrid. I think Hybrids are much too complicated and expensive. This is why I made this video - to warn others of the expense of repair. I did not expect Yamaha to fix it for free, but I was not expecting such an expensive and lengthy process. I face thousands in costs, months wait, and they want me to pay in advance when I do not even know if the repair will work, and how long it will last until it breaks down again. It is pretty daunting...
Sorry to hear of your experience on many levels. Not least, given the less than great experience you've had with this instrument but the surprise and disappointment at the lack of the company's ability to reach out to you and compromise about the cost of repairs. It's their instrument that has let you down, it's not like you took a hammer to it (Excuse the pun!) As with anything, it can go wrong epecially things or indeed pianos with chips inside. In the first instance I would contact their afters sales department and let them know one of their pianos is faulty and the best reputable place near you to have it repaired. Any decent Yam rep should be all over it like a rash as it's the company's reputation that's at stake. Yes, they could fob you off but in a market saturated with products of a similar vein and competitors just waiting to knock you off your perch, bad press is not good for business or a good look. I would suspect that there many reasons why a person may want to buy a hybrid piano. Just because a person might not be able to play like Chopin right now should not deter them from getting one. In fact. there are many wonderful pianists who have them specifically because they are hybrid or silent. The hybrid piano or the AnyTime ATX range is a considered purchase for most but for some pianists while there maybe numerouse reaons to have one, key action, space and lifestyle tend to be at the top of the list for getting one. The Kawai VPC1 I think as others have mentioned is for the keyboard purist. It would be great to see the action of MP11 SE inside it one day because I think it just shades it action-wise but then that would make it more expensive and even heavier. The VPC1 whilst not outrageously expensive, is not exactly cheap either. That said, it's been around a while and I think pianists, composers and songwrighters would welcome and be willing to pay for a significant and long overdue upgrade if and when it's available. Please don't give up hope, I feel there is someone out there who can steer you in the right direction. Hopefully, it will be something small that can save you a small fortune or having to shell out more money on another instrument. I hope someone sees your upload and can be the light at the end of your currently dark tunnel. Wishing you all the best in your efforts.
I purchased a studiologic sl88, it came with one pedal but also purchased a thre pedal unit and just use software through my laptop. It has hammer action thats great. The keyboard, pedal, and stand cost me just a little over 400 quid. I'm a new player but I am very happy with it.
I had the same issues with my Kawai NV5. After many months it was finally fixed for free... but now the control screen is sometimes glitchy. I love the piano though.
How despicable that any company would fail to stand behind their product like this. I was seriously considering an N2 or N3X. I won't consider one now. I'm sorry you have to endure such poor service. So disheartening.
Hard to day at the moment if it is Yamaha that isn't pushing enough, or whether Tom Lee isn't being effective enough to help the customer. I have a feeling that Tom Lee needs to get the unit to a proper Yamaha technician - physically get it there, in order to properly find out what the issue is. And then fix it.
@@NeverCryWolf64 Totally with you NCW, as I got to reflect and consider ourselves being in the same situation. If the unit goes in for repair, then it's their responsibility to just do what it takes to figure it out, and get it sorted properly, and then even tell the customer exactly what the issue is/was. At the moment - due to little or no reports/complaints in various piano forums, this situation can likely be resolved properly if eg. Tom Lee gets the unit to the 'proper' tech. It's not right for them to ask you to fork out a few thousand dollars etc. They need to diagnose properly - and then provide a quote for a fix instead.
I am so sorry this happened to you. had the same thing happen to me. It was apparently a defect from the factory. Although they covered it under warranty, the bill would have been several thousand dollars. Yamaha took care of me. I play it a couple of hours per day every day. I have had no problem with it since. I made a video of the repair. I love this piano, although I think Yamaha could use a Lean Six Sigma quality process to ensure these things don’t happen in the first place.
@@NeverCryWolf64 Give us an exact report of how many keys don't work and which ones they are exactly. Next tell us about the working keys. Do they work perfectly or intermittently? Also what about the humidity level where the piano is located? Is it humid or dry? Did you get any literature with the piano that describes the type of action it is. Specifically do the describe it as being optical for example like a CD or DVD. Sometimes you have to clean the lens on a DVD or CD player.
It’s not just this piano. I sold a Roland HP-605 for a Clavinova CSP-170PE. The thing just isn’t sealed anywhere near as well against dust as the competitors. Design is also flawed as it has cracks in the keyboard cover (it is supposed to be there), that dusk just gets into and you can’t get it out. I will honestly never buy another Piano from Yamaha again, as I tried to trade it in for a better design and they wanted to give me a 3rd of the price I paid for a current model one year old piano.
Thanks for sharing your story. It is good for us all to discuss these problems. Hopefully Yamaha will feel some pressure from its customers and learn to do better.
i already put a deposit for NU1X hybrid and the guy told me that there's a five years free maintenance parts and labor...thanks for the warning...looks like i have to trade it in every five years....pretty sure it'll be much better than my previous ones
@@NeverCryWolf64 You would need some sort of MIDI instrument and a cable to it. I doubt you have that. You might be able to connect a USB cable to a computer that has some sort of MIDI instument software and check it. Most likely the key is not sending any information. The suggestion is good, because it's a way of checking it. If it doesn't send MIDI data most likely the key is not making contact which I have been saying all along. Whatever the case, in all probability the electrical contacts are poor or the mechanical hammer is not making contact with the sensor which could be working electronically. What's against these hybrid pianos is they are too complex. Most people don't need something like it in the first place. How many people are entering the Chopin competition?
@@JoeLinux2000 I will try to figure this out. It would be nice if I could still use this piano with the midi out. I think you ar right though, it probably won't work. Thanks!
@@NeverCryWolf64 I don't know about the key switches specifically, but MIDI instruments work on MIDI which stands for Musical Instrument Digital Instructions. On the original standard each parameter was between 0 and 127. 0 is totally silent and 127 is as loud as it could be. Each key has a number when you press the key. it's number is sent with the information of how hard or fast it was played. Sometimes a key or keys can get stuck open and will continue to play endlessly if the MIDI data stream is interrupted and the 0 (zero) is never received. Your piano is computerized. Honestly in most cases the hybrid action is a mistake it is an ancient thing mated to a computerized instrument and you end up with a mule that can be uncooperative at times. But in the end, your piano is like every other digital piano and has key switches that sent out MIDI data from a key sensor. As I understand it, a few aren'tr working. Either they aren't being hit by the hammer or the contact or lens is dirty. It's as simple as that. Get to work on it. Yamaha is not the only person who can work pn it. Often the solution is very simple. But you are right about one thing buying such and instrument that just has the voice of some other cheaper digital piano controlled by a complex antique action doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are truly a concert artist. I've played some of these high end pianos at the dealership and don't care for the way they play or sound. You said so yourself. You said it doesn't sound that good. Some of the newer digital really do sound good. MY DGX combined with Pianoteq is the best sounding piano I have ever played. Look up Pianoteq or Modartt they have many demos of the different pianos they allegedly emulate.
Thank you for the warning. That DOES seem like a strange design indeed. There should also be some REALLY GOOD digital pianos for less than that price for parts.
Do you mind sharing what year model this is? I am looking at a N1 (used) and am wondering if it may develop the same issues. The one I am looking at was made in 2015.
I bought an N1 in 2013 and have never had an issue with it. I play some very heavy repertoire too. I think this poor fellow has just been unlucky, there certainly aren't widespread reports of this kind of failure with any of the "n" series Hybrids.
This message is for 'deckardwill' - who posted in 'PW' regarding this vid. My comment is - even 'people' have failures in their body sometimes - through no fault of their own, or anybody. If the issue is at least fixable, then that is good. In this case - in the hands of the 'real' expert at Yamaha, where the unit gets shipped properly to Yamaha, then I'm sure that the issue will become identified, and resolved.
I'm sorry you've had such an awful experience. I guess it comes down to lazy/inexperienced/inadequate technicians, more than anything. My YDP-164 had this exact problem. Spoke to Yamaha, they gave me the number of a fantastic technician, Tony. Tony came down with the part he knew I needed, which was a new sensor strip, popped it in, played a bit and left, no hassle. Yamaha isn't always this bad, although, I can fully understand why you might not want to buy from Yamaha again. I hope people know that this isn't a very common occurrence, and I hope this alone doesn't put you off buying a Yamaha, as they are truly wonderful digital pianos.
@@NeverCryWolf64 Perhaps. Honestly, at the price point that they offer those things at, if you have the space and don't absolutely require headphones, I don't know why one would go for a hybrid over like a nice Kawai GL10 or another quality low-end baby grand. Cheaper and a hundred times better in terms of feel, key action, sound, tone and looks! And with the silent system technology that can be installed on grands now, I think hybrids are just completely useless.
I'm used to Clavinovas failing after 5-6 years - my old CLP-440 is just starting to go, and my 200 series got about the same life prior to that. But this costs thousands more, so I'd expect it to last. A properly maintained acoustic is probably still the way to go for longevity.
So much money to pay for disappointment.... and they say after that Nords are too expensive. Nord Piano 5 + granny's old good upright Petrof from the middle of the 80s - that's the perfect combination for me🙂
I’ve had my Roland digital piano since 2001 and it’s still perfect. Great action, but the sound is a bit “boxy”. I had a Yamaha digital quite a few years ago which was the top of the range with rhythms and styles etc. Excellent speaker and amp system. Great sound. But.. the action I did not like so I sold it.
Your AvantGrand N2 has: Keyboard Action: Specialized Grand Piano Action You probably bought it for that "Specialized" Grand Piano Action Unique feature of the N2 is the "Specialized" Grand Piano Action of the keys, which gives you a very exact like a real piano key action, but it is complicated and not very durable. Its Amplifier is no very strong, but with a high fidelity tree way system. Amplifiers 22 W x 10 + 80 W x 2 three way speaker system (13 cm + 2.5 cm) x 3 + (8 cm + 2.5 cm) + 16 cm x 2 A the tree way speaker system has a base + a middletone + a hightone speaker A two way speaker system has a widerange-middletone + a hightone speaker Three way speaker systems have usually better base, than a two way system-. My CSP 170 has only a two way speaker system, it sounds good, but if you compare it side by side with a N2, the N2 will sound better. Alternatives with three way speaker system similar or better than N2: CVP-809 /arranger piano with many (1,605 !) voices and functions Keyboard Action: GrandTouch Keyboard: wooden keys synthetic ebony and ivory key tops, escapement MSRP: $14,499.00 Amplifiers (40W + 30W + 20W) × 2 + 80W Speakers (16 cm + 5 cm + 2.5 cm (dome)) × 2 + 20 cm, Spruce Cone Speaker, Twisted Flare Port tree way speaker system Number of Preset Styles 675 1,605 Voices + 58 Drum/SFX Kits + 480 XG Voices 82 kg (180 lb, 12 oz) CLP-785 Normal Digital Piano with 53 voices GrandTouch keyboard features wooden keys MSRP: $6,899.00- (50 W + 50 W + 50 W) x 2 (16 cm + 8 cm + 2.5 cm (dome) + transducer) x 2, Spruce Cone Speaker three way speaker system Style (Auto Accompaniment) No Number of Voices 53 voices + 14 Drum/SFX Kits + 480 XG voices 84 kg (185 lb, 3 oz) both CLP-785 and CVP-809 have GrandTouch keyboard (not "Specialized") more durable, but not realistic piano feeling, for my taste good enough, but you should try it at your local dealer, if its good enough for you. Sound quality from the speaker system should be the best on the CLP-785. but the CLP-785 has "only" 53 voices an less functions than the CVP--809 Sound quality of the CVP-809 is somewhat less good in base section, but the CVP-series has the most functions in terms of accompaniment styles and number (1605) of different voices (piano, guitar and all you can imagine, on the CVP-809 you get unbelievable many additional instruments in one piano). Sound quality of my CSP 170 is somewhat less good than CVP-809, but it is cheaper and it has a lot of fuctions and voices too. 692 Voices + 29 Drum/SFX Kits 14 VRM Voices, 113 Super Articulation Voices, 27 Natural! Voices, 27 Sweet! Voices, 63 Cool! Voices, 69 Live! Voices, 30 Organ Flutes! Featured Styles 396 Pro Styles, 34 Session Styles, 4 Free Play Styles, 36 Pianist Styles Amplifiers (45 W + 45 W) × 2 two way speaker system (16 cm + 8 cm) ×2 I DONT recommend the even cheaper CVP-701 because it has a very weak speaker system. if you want CVP series with lots of functions and voices, choose CVP800 or higher for the better speaker system. If you dont want many functions but best speaker system choose CLP series but not the lower price CLP-745 (two way speaker system), rather choose the CLP-785 (tree way speaker system) or higher.
Why advise Yamaha products to someone disgusted by Yamaha inability to solve its issues ? I own a top of the range Clavinova CVP-109 and am disappointed too : - the keyboard is a bit noisy, - there are « crackling noises » when I start to play, - some notes became out of tune (that eventually solved by itself) !
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Update Aug 8. The piano has been repaired. Apparently I have to wait for 2 weeks to get the repair bill because the guy at Yamaha who knows what the parts cost is on vacation. I will update here as soon as I can. Thanks for all your messages and comments. ❤
Please keep us posted. I think the sensors for those few broken keys need to be replaced or tighten. Hope the repair is minimal.
@@ahyungrocks5509 They replaced an optical transmitter board.
So they did found what was the problem and it fixed and your can go back and fully play the piano its playable now?
@@djshmul1 They replaced an optical transmitter board. It seems playable now, but I am really worried it will fail again. I am still waiting for the repair bill and will update this video when it comes.
I hope it will last for you for a long long time
Sorry about your bad experience. I have owned an AvantGrand N3 since 2010 as a practising instrument next to a Steinway grand piano. I have been extremely happy with my N3 and it is still in great condition, pretty much as good as when I got it. I have put it through thousands of hours of playing with anything from Disney songs to Chopin and Rachmaninov etudes and concertos. It has never let me down and has performed above expectations on top of being a very sleek-looking interior piece. I would definitively buy again.
That is really nice to hear. I wish I were so lucky.
that's a lovely review.
you should post some videos of you playing, if you have not done so already.
Are you using midi recording? With my N1 I’ve never been able to get a full sensitivity range with midi. Even if I really hammer the key, I won’t get a 127 value, more like a 80 or something (don’t quite remember exactly, but the point is that I don’t get the full value range, which of course translate to less subtleties in the recording). Do you have the same issue? (I’m using pianoteq)
I’ve been using an AvantGrand N3 since 2014. I had it regulated once, five years ago. There’s been no problem other than that. So, I can say I'm a happy user, too.
I may not have made this video had Yamaha offered repair the piano and then only charge me for the parts used, labor, taxes, and shipping. Instead they wanted me to pay thousands up front, wait 6 weeks, and hope they guessed right on parts needed. This was not acceptable.
Update 1: Because of this video Yamaha says will now send parts out and only charge me for the parts used for the repair plus shipping, taxes, and labour costs.
Update 2: I ordered parts over 6 weeks ago, and I am still waiting, The dealer (Tom Lee Music in Vancouver) has not contacted me in those 6 weeks.
Yamaha customer support for the DGX-670 is extremely poor to the point of being non existent. They won't even call me back.
@@JoeLinux2000 Sad to learn. Maybe it is time for customers to fight back.
I think that is a good solution offered by Yamaha. No car dealer, for example, would give you a bunch of parts to try out for free.
The N2 is a nice piano and still worth a lot of money. For a piece of technology, it did not depreciate too quickly.
@@dosgos So car dealers charge you 25% of the original purchase price of the car 6 weeks before they install parts in your vehicle? That sounds like a very bad deal.
Also my piano has very low mileage. I barely ever played the thing.
Thanks for this video which just popped up as a recommend, as it reflects my experience with a Yamaha instrument a few years back. I’m in the UK and thought maybe I was being unreasonable when after buying one of the high end Clavinovas (I’m very pushed for space but required a ‘proper’ piano action) it started to fail in similar ways to your piano, and both Yamaha and the local dealer seemed incapable of dealing with it properly. It was eventually fixed under warranty after a great deal of tetchy back and forth, but within a few months keys had started dropping out again, and one of the internal speakers failed. Even after paying for a repair myself, within a few months the problems recurred.
I sold it at considerable loss on eBay in the end as 'for parts'. It was junk and I felt I’d been ripped off.
For comparison, an entry level Roland piano I used while away at work never missed a beat for years and was sold on. The Yamaha was replaced with another entry level Kawai and eventually a VPC1 and Pianoteq which I’d been using intermittently for a while (other software is available of course, this is just my favourite). This might be a better way to go as you don’t have to keep replacing instruments as the software advances.
I was disappointed to put it mildly, as prior to this I’d never come across a piece of Yamaha gear that was no good: I have Yamaha outboard processors and a synth from the 80s which all still work fine, plus an SA 2000S guitar which is absolutely top dollar.
I had 2 digital pianos in my short list, Yamaha and Kawai. Now I know which one to buy, thanks for sharing this information.
Best of luck with your new piano!
@@NeverCryWolf64 FAUX ARCHI FAUX VOUS RACONTEZ N'IMPORTE QUOI ! J'AI DEUX PIANOS NUMERIQUES DEPUIS PLUS DE 15 ET ILS SONT PARFAIT ! VOUS RACONTEZ N'IMPORTE QUOI !
@@jean-yves9924 FAUX ARCHI FAUX VOUS RACONTEZ N'IMPORTE QUOI ! J'AI DEUX PIANOS NUMERIQUES DEPUIS PLUS DE 15 ET ILS SONT PARFAIT ! VOUS RACONTEZ N'IMPORTE QUOI !
Which piano did you buy (I guess kawai, but which model?) How do you like it? I have the Kawai NV10 (Not the new 10S) and I love it. The new one is more expensive by a lot!
@@knittysong Ended up with the Kawai CA701 and just love it. Great instrument at a reasonable price.
I was at the piano dealer a few weeks back. They had a Kawai CN29 on close out for around $1,500 it played beautifully, and sounded quite nice. You don't need $3.000.00 in parts.
Yes, Agreed. This was a very bad (and very expensive) decision on my part. 😭
YES I THINK IT WAS THE KAWAII CN29 I WAS ORIGINALLY INTERESTED IN. I HEARD SOMEONE PLAYING THAT PIANO ON RUclips AS A TEST PIANO AND I THOUGHT IT SOUNDED FANTASTIC. BUT IM HAPPY WITH THE CA79 KAWAII EXCEPT FOR ITS RECORDER WHICH PLAYS UP SOMETIMES. OTHER THAN THAT THERE ARE NO OTHER PROBLEMS.
It is sad to see a once great musical instrument maker decline so far as to be peddling expensive disposable pianos. They should have fixed this "lemon" for free. For about one-third of the repair cost they quoted you anyone can buy a new Korg B2 digital piano with hardwood stand and three pedals. The B2 has good key action and decent sound. You deserve better than what they sold you and I hope you wind up getting your money's worth.
Thanks Friend. It was an expensive lesson, but such is life. All the best.
Thanks for your review and saving me thousands on the N3X I was considering. Yamaha should have stood behind their product and repaired (parts and labor) for free! Because of your video and the excellence of Kawai electronic pianos, I bought from them.
Thanks! Good luck. Lots of people commented about their favorite pianos below.
Update July 14, 2023: I ordered parts to repair the piano, and they arrived 8 weeks later to the day. My dealer and Yamaha will attempt to repair it in the next few weeks. I will update here soon to let you know if the repair was sucessful, and how much it cost.
Can you say which parts did you get? What do they say the problem is?
interesting on topic video:
ruclips.net/video/hrTJjxViB2w/видео.html
@@batner They don't know what thew problem is, so they are basically going to try replacing everything until they find the part that is at fault.
@@NeverCryWolf64 We're looking forward for an update :)
Wish you luck!
@@OnnQuan Thanks!
Sorry to hear about your hassle with the dealer and the instrument. Not discounting any of your unfortunate experience, but I wanted to share that I've owned an AvantGrand N1 for about 8 years and have really enjoyed it. It is one of the fully digital ones - no strings at all - so perhaps not as relevant to this thread. I've played it a lot! It is my main practice instrument - I bought it for the action - and I use it as my primary midi controller in my studio as well. As a professional pianist, and having played since I was a kid, my experience with Yamaha keyboards has been a little hit and miss. Their older P-90 era keyboards are workhorses! But their grands are inconsistent. I've played two that I thought were pleasurable, musical and reliable. The others over the years have felt unsatisfactory. I've found their uprights ok, but not great. I wish you the best in your search for a satisfying instrument.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
There are no strings in this piano as well. They took grand piano key mechanics and added a set of sensors and a digital piano module to produce the sound. The problems are in the electronics on this instrument.
@@batner Yes, but it is an extremely complex design. In hindsight I would always only buy simple low tech things....
@@NeverCryWolf64 There is nothing "low tech" in acoustic piano. It is pretty high precision mechanics. With tens of small parts for each key. What makes you think it is cheaper is because there are much more professionals who can identify and fix issues. The most expensive part in the acoustic piano is cast iron and hard to break, soundboard can crack and be expensive to fix or replace as well, but that is unlikely. Unlike the computer board in a digital instrument, which can just croak like any other computer part.
@@batner Yes, you are 100% right, but I did own a 100 year old acoustic that was abused and still sounded great and was easy and cheap to maintain.
I’m sorry to hear about this…what a headache. I have been considering the avantgrand myself so appreciate you sharing your experience. I suppose these hybrids are relatively new tech so there’s inherent risk there but you should expect better from Yamaha.
Thanks James. I tried to give a balanced view. It is a good hybrid piano until it starts having problems. I hope you find a good alternative.
I know this comment is pretty old, but for new viewers: this tech is NOT new. In fact, the uploader's model, the N2, has been around since 2009. There is no updated model. Unlike others in the line up, they're still selling the exact same 2009 N2 model.
I actually have seen this before on my Yamaha Clavinova. A group of keys would occasionally stop working. I discovered that there was an alignment issue with the key-bed. If I torgued the key-bed I could get the keys to function again. For #3K you could get a new Rolland RD-2000 which is a helluva digital piano. It has a great action is built to be dragged from stage to stage. Performers refer to them as "Road Dogs".
Thanks Tony. Next time I will buy an acoustic or a pure digital. No more hybrids for me.
@@NeverCryWolf64 seems like with one of each (and the digital could be pretty cheap) you get all of the benefits of the hybrid without needing a hybrid
I have a Yamaha MM8 for 9 years and a Yamaha clavinova about 20 years old, they are still working fine and they have had a proper hammering over the years.
I think it’s just an unfortunate situation that can happen to anyone.
Some years ago my brother bought a brand new Fiat Tipo and it broke down on the way home from the dealership 😂
Hi,
have you been able to get a fix for the piano in the meantime? I just found this video by accident and thought i could share my experiences with you.
Last week I found an old GT10 for free. The owner had already written it off because of the defective keys and she had already ordered a new digital piano. So she wanted to throw the GT10 away and thought maybe someone could use it after all. Luckily I found it. I was able to fix it yesterday. In my case, I only had to replace the 12 red LEDs that lead to the sensor bar under the keys via the light guide. Apparently, the LEDs lose intensity over time, which gradually leads to keys failing.
I don't know if the construction is the same on your model, but I could imagine Yamaha using the same construction in many different hybrid pianos here.
Greetings
Andy
Thanks!. I am still waiting for parts for repair - 6 weeks wait now.
I don't know how old that piano is but the newer models in the industry definitely offer things we couldn't see back in the day for way cheaper, so im glad that is a thing nowadays
Most likely sensor issue. Assuming they have optical sensors for measuring key velocity etc, right? Not sure if those sorts of sensors are guarded against dust etc. I think heaps of people have an N2 - and at the moment, there doesn't appear to be similar reports of the same issue online etc. That is - not a 'common' or widespread issue. So Yamaha should really get stuck into it. As in - they get the physical unit to a technician that actually knows what they're doing. And identify the issue, and then proceed to fix it.
And 0:36 - I'm sure the N2 sounds as good as analog/acoustic piano. Depends on what sort of music is being played. And I'm sure if played well, it's going to sound excellent - as good as an acoustic piano. I'm confident that if I were to play it - then it's going to definitely sound as good as any acoustic piano.
Just putting this out there that I have owned my AvantGrand N1 since 2016 and haven’t had any issues. But we have to be prepared for things to wear and break etc. I can understand it’s frustrating but as for the commenters saying they will completely boycott them is rather silly. Kawai and other hybrid pianos have the same capacity for failure. Also yours is the only video I have ever seen, so it’s not that they are falling apart all over the place. Glad you’ve managed to get it fixed tho bet that’s a relief, and like others have pointed out best make sure the new parts are covered by their own warranty
I couldn’t have stated it better myself. Sadly, the majority of these comments are gross over generalizations about the overall quality of these hybrid pianos in a very negative way. Many of these comments appear that they do not understand exactly what a hybrid piano is. And yes, I own an N1X that I am quite fond of and practice on daily on average of at least 3 hours. It has really improved my playing due to its action which as you know is quite substantial and the true acoustic action of a small/moderate grand. I hope your comment and my reply and other more knowledgeable comments about pleased hybrid owners remain and are not taken down. Thank you for posting your comment.
@@jacquelinerubin8274 absolutely agree. Thanks for the reply
The failure is not really the issue here. It can happen to any piano. But the handling of the failure is an issue, a very big issue.
@@Maxime-ho9iv I think that’s very dependant on where you are in the world. I’m in the UK which is a relatively small area, where you could probably get a Yamaha technician fairly quickly. In other countries that are far bigger will probably struggle to get a tech without some sort of huge travel cost etc. I think over the coming years standard piano techs will get to grips with the hybrid technology and be able to fix them just as well as a Yamaha or Kawai technician
So how much was it. It’s been 10 months and no update.
I have always preferred Kawai Novus series over Yamaha, Although I have heard of an issue like this in the past, it's so rare to see a malfunction of this sort on the Kawai Hybrids. The Novus 10s is an amazing hybrid that literally has the same Millenium 3 action from the GX- series of Grand Pianos. Overall, in my opinion, if you want a great quality Piano(digital,hybrid or acoustic) Kawai is the brand to go for. If you want a great quality Jet Ski, go with Yamaha. Kawai only makes piano products, and they are great at it.
Thanks. Yamaha won't do anything for me, so I think I will never buy anything from them again.
Totally agree, Kawai much more better than Yamaha in digital piano. And have better price/quality.
I agrée. I have an Kawai RX6 grand and it’s pretty awesome. I also love the millennium 3 action. Their digital pianos are also fantastic. I love this brand.
Probe un novus 5 última actualización y no me gusta la pulsación muy blanda. Actualmente toco pianos de media cola en los hoteles. Los nuevos roland me gustó más. La pulsación es entre kawai Y yamaha
@@franquitofrankilopez Gracias por compartir su experiencia.
Thanks for warning, did they rebate you for parts and service you paid?
Never had any problems with my Yamaha Avantgrand piano. And have had it for 8 years. And the new one doesn't cause any problems either. You're probably one in a thousand. You don't have to advise against buying straight away.
Oh man, I'm so sorry for you. I almost bought a used N2 almost five years ago, but then decided on a new N1X. I am very happy with this to this day. A technician only had to come by once last year because the sustain pedal was squeaking a bit. But otherwise everything is good.
I had one of the first generation Yamaha Clavinovas when they came out , and while under warranty the action was so poor, you couldn't play rapid repeated notes.
Yamaha had addressed the problem at the time and sent a technician out to replace all 88 leaf springs that were the action problem...
It was an ok instrument and expensive even at that time .... but the memory was so limited that you could here this little digital sizzle as notes trailed off ...
That being said , it still surpassed , at least in sound anyway a basic spinet home piano.
Years later while working I bought a Kurzweil SP88X stage piano . I Loved everything about the piano .... the samples were second to none, and the action was perfect ...
There was nothing I could play to trip it up . I'm not sure but I had heard that Fatar had a hand in the design of the action part of the board.
I liked this piano so much , I bought one for home, already had a nice 3 way left, right, center , stereo setup , cabinets with 15's in them , and the sound was absolutely amazing ..... I'm still playing it today with no real desire to move on.
I paid between $600-700 for it , and it just blows away other digital as well as many consoles, .... forget spines totally ....!! It has samples from a 9 ft. Grand in it ...
A friend of mine, wanted my help in buying a med. Size Yamaha baby grand.....
Nice piece of furniture, got one with a nice bright tone ... Feel was stiff but friendly...
$15,000. ..... Couldn't wait to get home to play the Kurzweil right after the baby grand ..... And was Very Pleased with my purchase !!! It just sounds and feels amazing !
I have had an N2 for 11 years. Luckily without any discernible issues and I play it almost all the time.
I had a similar thing happen to me. I bought a Yamaha Clavinova for $7000 in 2001. In 2018 is started to have static crackling sounds. I got a partial repair but it started up again. Long story short, it could not be fixed (I believe bad capacitors that leaked). I suppose 17 years is good for an electronic/ computer device. But never again will I get locked into a “nice cabinet” piano. Only stage-type pianos around $1000-1500.
I'm not buying any more laptop computers. Mini computers work very well with an inexpensive TV. The keybords are USB plug-in, and can be expensively replaced too.
ruclips.net/video/tBGGQJ_tmy4/видео.html
Thanks! Good advice. I wish I had done that in the forst place.
Be sure and play as many acoustics as you can. It will help you to find what your tonal and touch preference is. Also do plenty of research. It's a good thing to be an informed buyer.
Are you selling your piano bench? I would like to buy from you.
No, SORRY.
If you are the original owner and its less then 5 years old arent you covered by the Yamaha Warranty???
I am the original owner. I have palyed the piano very little, but it is out of warranty now. My main objection is having to pay up front for very expensive parts, and then wait 6 weeks for a repair when no one is really sure what is wrong.
For the action
Alone , I think it would still be good for something … especially if it may have midi out ports … to trigger external sound sources via midi out port ..
The Midi out has the same problem.
I have a now-5 year old Kawai CA97, it's had 3 services due to sticking pads, however I can't fault Kawai's dedication to its 5 year warranty (Sydney Australia). Prompt and as advertised. Sure, having to get it serviced was a little inconvenient but the three services were free and the last one seems to have fixed it permanently. Kawai may have fixed this issue with the CA99, not sure...
What's up with these digitals...with mine, the keys were so loose it felt like Kawai forgot to install key bushings!
This is disappointing. I serviced electronics for decades and it was always an effort to get engineers to actually do troubleshooting. Swapping parts to find an issue shows a lack of troubleshooting skills. If the failure is there permnently the issue should be easily tracked with a mukltimeter and oscilloscope. I have a Yamaha digital piano and have been pleased with their service to this point. I wonder if a mom and pop electronics shop, if there is still one in your area, could give it a go. It sounds like a bad soldered connection. These, when intermittent, can cause hair to be pulled out. Yours should be easy to find. Good luck.
I completely agree John. They have no idea which parts are bad if any, and yet want me to pay up front for parts, wait 6 weeks, and hope the repair works. Does this seem reasonable?
If it is individual keys, it's more likely poor contact of the key switch.
@@JoeLinux2000 Some keys now do not work at all. Others are intermittant.
@@NeverCryWolf64 , Trust me it has something to do with hammers whatever they look like, not making contact with the electronic sensor strip. which is probably an aluminum bar across the length of all the hammers. I have had computer keyboards where certain keys stop working. In that case you have to replace the keyboard, but in the case of a digital piano you would replace the sensor strip. There may be RUclips videos on it. I have seen some before.
ruclips.net/user/results?search_query=Replacing+the+sensor+strip+in+a+digital+pianos
ruclips.net/video/nORuyLx5MMk/видео.html
Our church piano, a Yamaha Clavinova CVP 609 in 2015, 7 years later in 2022 we started to have issues of dead notes. The service tech replaced a couple of the flexible digital circuit plates that interface with the keys, one per octave. Cost $400 NZD. Considering the use it got, we thought that was OK.
Isn’t it under a warranty?
No. I wish it was.
@@NeverCryWolf64 that's such a shame you are having these problems. One would think a company like Yamaha would be able to offer a solution? It is certainly a nice-looking instrument. Also, the dealer is NOT very helpful.
@@michaelsmith697 Yes. I find equal fault with both. The dealer does not seem qualified to repair and Yamaha does not seem to care.
Well I was considering paying nearly $20k for the n3x instead of getting a c7 because of how big c7s are. Glad I saw this video. Thanks. Yamaha should have done the right thing here and replaced their clearly defective unit. Seeing how many have viewed this video, not only did they lose my purchase after this video It’s clear there’s probably a few hundred grand easy in lost sales. Yamaha marketing team better get with it. Epic fail.
Sorry for the inconvenience, but THANK YOU for your advice ✔
Thanks for the warning.
Thank you very much for this post. If you have not done so already, might I suggest that you look at what Merriam Music stated in January 2023 about the longevity of digital pianos.
While the whole of MM's post is generally relevant there are a couple of points which might be especially relevant to your case:
1. Given that the N2 is, as MM state, at the top end of digital pianos out there, then it would have been expected with normal use to have given you 10-15 years of trouble-free use (MM's estimate, not mine). With the actual very low usage in your case then one can assume that in effect you have had the equivalent of only one or two years of normal use (though if you left the piano switched on at the mains then even when the N2 was not in use and switched on at the keyboard, one conjectures that some degradation particularly of the electronic parts could still have occurred over the time the piano was 'not in use' (presumably you got your N2 c. 2009/10?).
2. In regard to the failure of the motherboard and other electrical parts of the instrument MM state: "When the motherboard or sensors will fail is fairly unpredictable, but we do find that these can fail with minimal use, but overall, this tends to occur at a very low percentage. Most manufacturers will have some type of fail rate on their electronics within a range of about 0.5% up to 2% or so." This suggests the possibility that your N2 might be/may have been part of the 'up to 2%' which fail, in other words part of the 'lemon' category. I hope the above is useful to you. Best wishes.
P.S. By the way, you might be interested to learn that from my own standpoint your cautionary tale is timely: I am and have been the owner of digital pianos over the last 13 years, including an N2, an N3x, a Roland FP90x and currently a Roland LX708. I am currently considering upgrading to a Roland GP-9 (part of a new GP series comprising also the GP-3 and GP-6, which was released earlier this year and which has only just become available at dealer level). However, in my case I use the piano for at least a few hours daily and want my next instrument to last for a good 20+ years, not even partly because of an investment of money criterion but because I want some stability in the action of the piano that I use, whether that be a digital or an acoustic. So, like yourself I am now considering whether a used acoustic grand piano (in my case retrofitted with a good silent system which can be used as a digital option to the use of the same piano in its normal acoustic mode) might be a better fit with my criteria than the Roland GP-9. Though the latter comes with a 10-year warranty that will be of little consolation to me if the specific digital model I would get subsequently proves to fall within the up to 2% category that MM have mentioned.
Thanks for the info Donal. I wish you well in your new purchase.
Donal, I would recommend the Kawai Aures series. it's a full acoustic with the silent Aures system attached from the manufacturer. Although having a 3rd party system attached is okay. Keeping everything copasetic will net you longer and better results. Idk you budget range, but you can probably find a K500 Aures for about $15,000. I could talk all day about how much I love that instrument. I have the K300 Aures myself and it's amazing, the K500 simply has a better touch and deeper, better tones (because the strings are longer).
waiting "for 2 weeks to get the repair bill because the guy at Yamaha who knows what the parts cost is on vacation" is something unbelievable. I mean, it is Yamaha, a multimega international corporation, they own now Bossendorfer, and the price and the bills depennd on just one guy. Thanks for sharing your experiance with this instrument and Yamaha. We know now how Yamaha responds when the instruments fail.
Already tried replacing the rubber contacts?
No, but my dealer came twice and also consulted with Yamaha, so I am (probably foolishly) trusting they know what they are doing...
Don't know if this helps or applies in this situation. My 3 year experience with Yamaha digital piano. They don't like Android phones near them. I don't know about IOS stuff, they work with Apple apps so maybe it's different. Here's what I discovered by just placing my android phone on the keys while playing. Certain keys would act up. Playing loud and rude, playing even when not played, or not sounding at all. Sometimes it would cause multiple keys to act up, then octaves,then 5ths and 4ths. I thought it was junk. Some times it malfunction led, some time not. I finally figured out not to place phone on keys or music desk. Good luck everyone, keep playing.
Every digital piano that I have owned eventually glitched after many hours of practice. I finally decided to get an acoustic. In ten years, a digital piano is worn out and obsolete. In those same ten years, an acoustic piano is just getting started in its service life.
Sorry, about your bad experience. Many subscribers ,like me, are still wondering how much money they changed you. Had have an N1X; it is two years old; so far no problems.
Basicly, it is always better to buy an acoustic piano. It's possible to buy a silent piano if there are troubles with neighbours.
Yes. I wish I had done that.
You could try a Yamaha or Kawai Silent Piano instead. They are proper a ousting pianos but when you slide the middle pedal to the left it puts it into digital mode and puts up a barrier to stop the hammers hitting the strings and you can then play it silently using headphones, or without if it has an in built-in speaker!
How can I get the piano off your hands? I'm in Victoria and can arrange pickup if you are in Vancouver. I was at Tom Lee's at Langford yesterday checking out these Hybrid models, I was checking RUclips for more information and saw your video. Please let me know, cheers
I decided to spend thousands to repair it after all. I am not happy about it, but I have ordered the parts.
tough luck, hope you can sort it out.
I have just bought a Yamaha N1X and I’m perfectly happy with it. You must have had bad luck, I guess.
it's a shame it takes a youtube video for them to fix it. we are all different, but on principle i would not have accepted their 'attempt to repair' after this video was posted.
If you just recently bought it, you have a warranty to actually return it. They have to take it back. I suggest you get a Yamaha. CVP-909
Unfortunately it is out of warranty.
I'm so sorry to hear that. That sounds like to every pianists nightmare! I have an AnantGrand myself- an N3, and I love it. For years I was pianist/singer with The James Last Orchestra and he rented one for me to play on every tour. That's how I learned about it in the first place. I see that you posted this 11 months ago. I only hope that since then you have found a solution! Frankly, I'm shocked that your dealer didn't immediately take it back and give you a new one! Kind regards, Joe Dorff.
James Last! I wrote to him when I was a kid. I so wanted to play in his band. I remember working with a trumpet player much later. Henry Lowther, and he said what a great band it was to play in personally
Hello.
First of all I would like to say that I love the sound of Yamaha and I have used their products for many years, but lately I have had these kinds of problems. first with my MOX 8 and then with different clavinovas like the CLP-765 GP. Notes that are triggered at maximum volume while you press the sustain pedal or as it happened with the MOX simply stops sounding, having to turn it off and on. I don't know what happens with this brand since they are not cheap products. They say it may be because of the humidity. I don't know but it is very sad that this happens with instruments of this category
Is it humidity or dust? I really wish I had bought an acoustic piano. I think I will never trust Yamaha technology again.
I was very disappointed after a few years of owning a digital piano ... You ASSUME that it will be cheaper in the long run, because you don't need to tune it, etc. Then I discovered this sort of thing happens that you described in this video. Little rubber mats similar to those used for the rubber keys of calculators seem to have a limitation in their life span and cleaning them or replacing them is either expensive or quite a laborious task.The bottom line is that digital pianos have lots of flaws that show after time, like those contact points failing and you might not have to pay as much as what you pay for a nice acoustic piano, but in the long run digital pianos also have flaws in their design from the point of view that they will be a better investment than some acoustic pianos. And let's face it, there's nothing more majestic than playing a real grand piano
1:52 yea, that's really not how it should work...I would expect a serious dealer to come, take the piano and then AFTER they verified exactly what parts need to be changed they should tell you the exact estimated cost, and THEN you could decide if it's worth it or not. There's no way I'm gonna pay for something without even being sure it'll fix the issues. That's also kinda scummy in my opinion. I would also send a formal complaint to Yamaha about it. Good luck with your next piano ;)
Yes, Very poor customer service from both Yamaha and my dealer Tom Lee Music.
So what’s happened to it 😳 did it get repaired ?? And is it now playable ??
The only problem I can imagine right now are some worn rubber contacts which make the contact with a PCB. These rubbers have a conductive layer underneath, usualy made of carbon. Over time, this layer can wear out. They should be fairly cheap and easy to replace.
The piano was repaired today. It was actually an optical transmitter board that was emitting a low signal. I will update this video soon to tell everyone about the repair, and how much it cost.
Appalling that yamaha didnt replace or repair it. Im poised sctually to get an avantgrand nux1A but now i will think twice, unless there is a warranty for at least five years ..didnt you have a warranty or dodnt the warranty back up the repair?
In what year was your purchase? Just curious.
I cant remember now. It is more than 5 years ago...
I guess the items like an AvantGrand , and other similar items come with , what I call , ‘Furniture Appeal ‘
But for me … as a musician … my priority is for a fine playing & sounding instrument .
And because I like to record at home … sound & playability is EVERYTHING
‘Furniture Appeal’ is last in my mind … if any …
It don’t mean a thing … to me ….. if an instrument doesn’t ‘swing’ ….. (if it doesn’t play well & sounds good )
Maybe just simply have the ‘internal ‘ aspects changed out by some other technician who’s not gonna rip you off …. Or if you might be a bit able to yourself … just change the midi strip to a more simpler & reliable midi strip …
But for what they want you to pay … I agree with you …. To stop 🛑 while you’re ahead & look for better option
This is very unusual for an "n" series Yamaha Hybrid and I think you're being pretty poorly by your dealer. I've had my N1 for 10 years and have never had an issue with it and its been played very heavily. I hope you get it sorted out for 100's rather than 1000's. It certainly looks like an electronic fault rather than a mechanical one.
Both the dealer and Yamaha have treated me very badly. I finally ordered the thousands in parts. It has now been 6 and a half weeks and no word from either the dealer or Yamaha about when they will arrive.
How long was the guarantee? It's sad ro hear this bad experience.
5 years.
@@NeverCryWolf64 so it occured after the guarantee was over. So sorry
Did you purchase this from a dealer? I have never had any issues with warranty claims. Yamaha has some of the best service out there.
I recommend anyone looking at digital pianos should really consider getting a Kawai VPC1 instead and using virtual pianos. Honestly it's going to end up cheaper, better sounding, and more future proof.
Thanks. I wil look into this. I wish I had been smarter before buying the Yammy.
I don't believe it's necessary to go that high end. How many people play as well as Yuja Wang?
@@JoeLinux2000 I mean it’s high end sound but a lot cheaper than many digital pianos on the market which is my point. With these digital pianos you’re paying a lot for the cabinet and speakers when really the most important part is the action. Buy the best action you can and use VST. My two cents anyway.
@@EvanZamir I know people are very happy with the VPC1 and it seems to be one of the very best on the mass market today. If you compare it to this Yamaha Avant Grand it makes a lot of sense. I'm just saying the VPC1 may be more than most people need. I'm playing thye DGX-670 with the GHS action. There are many negative comments about the GHS action, but I'm totally fine with it, when combined with Pianoteq Pro. One of the good things about the DGX is there is no latency, and I can layer a Pianoterq Pro voice with an interal DGX voice. There resulting tone is better than either one played by itself. In fact my piano sounds very similar to the Roland LX 708 which is one of the best sounding digitals on the showroom floor. The total cost for my rig was around $2,500 which includes Pianoteq Pro and a computer to run it. I'm not sure of the price of an LX708 but I'm sure it must be around $7,500.00 or more., maybe close to $10,000.00 Purchasing over priced overly complex digitals is unnecessary for most people. So I do agree with you. The VPC1 would provide a very good action to drive a piano voice that can be upgraded as technology moves forward.
Kawai ES920 enough for a non proper keyboard action -
Don't these pianos come with 5 year warranty? or 10? It's sad that a brand like Yamaha takes that long to repair it. Was it under warranty? Why did they ask you to pay for it? Please tell me as I also want to buy one of these pianos and I need to know if Yamaha has bad quality and does not stand by their warranty. It would also help everybody. Don't fear Yamaha. They should build their reputation if it gets damaged by truth. Thank you for sharing.
I have asked him for the cost at least a few times and have not received any answer. I have a Yamaha N1X for
almost 2 years and am very pleased with it and I practice daily 3-4 hours on it. If you look at the many comments there are a few others who are also happy with their Yamaha Avant Grands. Keep in mind that many of these negative comments come from people who do not understand what an Avant Grand is. I have just asked him again for a price. The warranty is 5 years and he states he’s had this piano for much longer than the warranty and has not played the piano much at all. I really hope he answers us with a final cost as he assured us he would months ago in August when the repair was made.
I'm so sorry you have to go thru this as a Yamaha fan Yamaha should sort you out for you to be happy and in order for them to keep their integrity at no further cost to you since no product is beyond it's backup. Regards Andre SA
Hi, if you gonna get rid of it, tell me, please. If it is possible to ship it to Norway, I'll take it and I think I can fix it for you. Just tell me.. well keep in touch. Best regards Ken Torkildsen, from Norway.
The shipping would cost more than it is worth.
@@NeverCryWolf64 ah, so the shipping would cost much?
$12,000 for a digital piano that breaks down in a few years?
He's being scammed. They don't know how to adjust it.
Hello again, for those of us who are waiting to find out how much the repair cost you would it be possible that you can tell us how much you paid? As you said in your last post 5 months ago when you stated the man from Yamaha was on vacation and you would tell us when he returned. At this point he may be on another vacation with the money you paid for the repair. Or just possibly the repair was not as costly as you anticipated. In either case please let us know what you paid as you assured us you would 5 months ago.
Get a Kawai Novus 5s or 10s. They are so good.
I have the Clavinova 645 and can only recommend it. For me still the best "e-grand-piano" out there.
Strange. Good to know.
I have a digital Roland for 22 years already. Never problems.
Maybe this is silly but do the keys have an electric metal to metal contact like an old analog joystick? If so you can just use an eraser on them. Just seems just like the issue that would plague arcade games many moons ago.
Well, I had the authorized dealer service person out 3 times to fix it, and they had a Yamaha expert on a video conference, and they could not fix it. They did bill me though... I doubt it is an easy fix...
Like I said probably out there but dirty contacts might not be something they thought if. They may not even exist in the piano, it just fits your symptoms
I don't think it's silly at all, but I have heard of few pianos that have an optical action. This could be one of them.
@@NeverCryWolf64 My experience with Yamaha customer support is that it's absolutely worthless. They never address the actual issue you are calling about, plus they really don't seem to care if the end user is happy with the product or not. Also the so called expert from Yamaha may have actually known very little about the piano. When I first called about my DGX the person answering the call had never even seen one, let alone repaired it. You would think there would be a repair manual on an instrument like that. Did they give you a parts list they think could be the problem? We can't help much if we don't know the specifics of the piano. We're just like the Yamaha agents.
@@johnnyp6202 Thanks.
I believe these pianos come with a 5 year Yamaha warranty that covers parts and labor. Did you buy it used? I don’t see how an electronic instrument wouldn’t last as long as a regular piano. There is no sound board to crack over time or tuning pins that get loose over time or hammers to wear out. If you bought new maybe you got a lemon. Or if you bought it used it could have been a lemon. Mine N3X has been working fine without issues since I purchased it 3 years ago.
I’ve been considering buying the nux1 and found this video when searching for repair info. I will consider getting an acoustic piano or just a chap stage piano now. Thanks and hope it gets repaired economically in the end.
They're replacing the nu1x with a different piano that has no optical sensor. Probably due to this same problem, i believe their entire line will move to magnets instead of optical
Wasn’t that part of warranty?
Maybe you should have bought a Casio GP510?
I disassembled at my own risk, my 88 keys Kronos and took out all keys, key by key until I get it right. I did the same with an old Yamaha organ that had some keys with poor contact. After I did it including potentiometers everything is playing as brand new for 0$ on the Yamaha. I would open the piano keybed myself until I understood was is going on...
Interesting. Unfortunately I think newer Hybrids are very complicated, and the parts that Yamaha want me to buy to try to see if they will fix the issues are not availble for sale to the public. They are not discrete components, but rather proprietary modules. This makes repair very expensive and tricky.
@@NeverCryWolf64 My option with Korg Kronos 88X was to buy a new keybed or send it for maintenance to apply grease (PFPE PTFE). But I suspected it would not be enough and I was right. I had to remove the grease from the guides and apply silicon and slice it to a thickness of a paper sheet and then apply the grease again after drying the silicon. No more plastic keys sound. On Korg Kronos 2 they fixed this issue. You may have the solution in your hands. Its ridiculous that they are charging you for a poorly conceived product. This is clearly a Quality issue away from optimal Pareto point, and should be addressed as so at Yamaha cost. The cost of Yamaha not doing it right may have higher cost impact than if they do. They have no idea of what is going on and some guy that studied Engineering and is curious from childhood and disassembles everything does? Come on! You deserve better than this! Are the sensors optical or rubber contact? If optical may be the led. If not may be the microchip that send and receives information. If rubber contact (I doubt it because its a hybrid hammer action) just clean it with alcohol 1 time and it will last another 20 years. Don't do it often though...be gentle.
@@joaonuno439 Thanks for your input and understanding. The Korg (as far as I understand) is completely electronic, whereas mine is a hybrid. I think Hybrids are much too complicated and expensive. This is why I made this video - to warn others of the expense of repair. I did not expect Yamaha to fix it for free, but I was not expecting such an expensive and lengthy process. I face thousands in costs, months wait, and they want me to pay in advance when I do not even know if the repair will work, and how long it will last until it breaks down again. It is pretty daunting...
Sorry to hear of your experience on many levels. Not least, given the less than great experience you've had with this instrument but the surprise and disappointment at the lack of the company's ability to reach out to you and compromise about the cost of repairs. It's their instrument that has let you down, it's not like you took a hammer to it (Excuse the pun!) As with anything, it can go wrong epecially things or indeed pianos with chips inside. In the first instance I would contact their afters sales department and let them know one of their pianos is faulty and the best reputable place near you to have it repaired. Any decent Yam rep should be all over it like a rash as it's the company's reputation that's at stake. Yes, they could fob you off but in a market saturated with products of a similar vein and competitors just waiting to knock you off your perch, bad press is not good for business or a good look.
I would suspect that there many reasons why a person may want to buy a hybrid piano. Just because a person might not be able to play like Chopin right now should not deter them from getting one. In fact. there are many wonderful pianists who have them specifically because they are hybrid or silent. The hybrid piano or the AnyTime ATX range is a considered purchase for most but for some pianists while there maybe numerouse reaons to have one, key action, space and lifestyle tend to be at the top of the list for getting one.
The Kawai VPC1 I think as others have mentioned is for the keyboard purist. It would be great to see the action of MP11 SE inside it one day because I think it just shades it action-wise but then that would make it more expensive and even heavier. The VPC1 whilst not outrageously expensive, is not exactly cheap either. That said, it's been around a while and I think pianists, composers and songwrighters would welcome and be willing to pay for a significant and long overdue upgrade if and when it's available.
Please don't give up hope, I feel there is someone out there who can steer you in the right direction. Hopefully, it will be something small that can save you a small fortune or having to shell out more money on another instrument. I hope someone sees your upload and can be the light at the end of your currently dark tunnel. Wishing you all the best in your efforts.
Thanks for taking the time to write this great comment Carl. I will look on the bright side.😁
I purchased a studiologic sl88, it came with one pedal but also purchased a thre pedal unit and just use software through my laptop. It has hammer action thats great. The keyboard, pedal, and stand cost me just a little over 400 quid. I'm a new player but I am very happy with it.
I had the same issues with my Kawai NV5. After many months it was finally fixed for free... but now the control screen is sometimes glitchy. I love the piano though.
Hybrids aren’t there yet. Give another decade for them to sort it out. Kawai NV5 also has issues.
Also very disappointed about your experience. I bought my AvantGrand N2 8 years ago and have not experienced any problems with mine. Love it!
I am happy for you. May it give you years more pleasure.
was it not covered by warranty
How despicable that any company would fail to stand behind their product like this. I was seriously considering an N2 or N3X. I won't consider one now. I'm sorry you have to endure such poor service. So disheartening.
Thanks D. All the best in your search for a great piano.
Hard to day at the moment if it is Yamaha that isn't pushing enough, or whether Tom Lee isn't being effective enough to help the customer. I have a feeling that Tom Lee needs to get the unit to a proper Yamaha technician - physically get it there, in order to properly find out what the issue is. And then fix it.
@@southpark5555 I think you are 100% right.
@@NeverCryWolf64 Totally with you NCW, as I got to reflect and consider ourselves being in the same situation. If the unit goes in for repair, then it's their responsibility to just do what it takes to figure it out, and get it sorted properly, and then even tell the customer exactly what the issue is/was. At the moment - due to little or no reports/complaints in various piano forums, this situation can likely be resolved properly if eg. Tom Lee gets the unit to the 'proper' tech. It's not right for them to ask you to fork out a few thousand dollars etc. They need to diagnose properly - and then provide a quote for a fix instead.
@@southpark5555 Yeah. Right on.
I guess it has to do with the opitcal sensors...
Looks like you just got defected unit. They should have just replaced it.
Oh and by the way, Roland gives you a 10 year bumper to
Bumper warranty on their HP line and above.
Wow. Yamaha really needs to address issues and up its game.
I am so sorry this happened to you. had the same thing happen to me. It was apparently a defect from the factory. Although they covered it under warranty, the bill would have been several thousand dollars. Yamaha took care of me. I play it a couple of hours per day every day. I have had no problem with it since. I made a video of the repair. I love this piano, although I think Yamaha could use a Lean Six Sigma quality process to ensure these things don’t happen in the first place.
Look into the key switch assembly kit. I had the same problem with my Kawai. That part only cost me $265.00
I am not sure that is applicable here, but I will look into it. Thanks!
@@NeverCryWolf64 Give us an exact report of how many keys don't work and which ones they are exactly. Next tell us about the working keys. Do they work perfectly or intermittently? Also what about the humidity level where the piano is located? Is it humid or dry? Did you get any literature with the piano that describes the type of action it is. Specifically do the describe it as being optical for example like a CD or DVD. Sometimes you have to clean the lens on a DVD or CD player.
Kawai seems to be the best of all brands for warranty , my ES8 experience I can attest to it .
It’s not just this piano. I sold a Roland HP-605 for a Clavinova CSP-170PE. The thing just isn’t sealed anywhere near as well against dust as the competitors. Design is also flawed as it has cracks in the keyboard cover (it is supposed to be there), that dusk just gets into and you can’t get it out.
I will honestly never buy another Piano from Yamaha again, as I tried to trade it in for a better design and they wanted to give me a 3rd of the price I paid for a current model one year old piano.
Thanks for sharing your story. It is good for us all to discuss these problems. Hopefully Yamaha will feel some pressure from its customers and learn to do better.
i already put a deposit for NU1X hybrid and the guy told me that there's a five years free maintenance parts and labor...thanks for the warning...looks like i have to trade it in every five years....pretty sure it'll be much better than my previous ones
I just had mine repaired yesterday. The repair took almost a whole day. I am waiting to recieve the bill...
Good advice
Thanks. I tried not to exaggerate.
Does it register MIDI for the silent keys? If so you could try Pianoteq or some other virtual instrument.
Oh. I had no idea. I am not technical. How do I check that? THANKS!
Excellent suggestion.
@@NeverCryWolf64 You would need some sort of MIDI instrument and a cable to it. I doubt you have that. You might be able to connect a USB cable to a computer that has some sort of MIDI instument software and check it. Most likely the key is not sending any information. The suggestion is good, because it's a way of checking it. If it doesn't send MIDI data most likely the key is not making contact which I have been saying all along. Whatever the case, in all probability the electrical contacts are poor or the mechanical hammer is not making contact with the sensor which could be working electronically. What's against these hybrid pianos is they are too complex. Most people don't need something like it in the first place. How many people are entering the Chopin competition?
@@JoeLinux2000 I will try to figure this out. It would be nice if I could still use this piano with the midi out. I think you ar right though, it probably won't work. Thanks!
@@NeverCryWolf64 I don't know about the key switches specifically, but MIDI instruments work on MIDI which stands for Musical Instrument Digital Instructions. On the original standard each parameter was between 0 and 127. 0 is totally silent and 127 is as loud as it could be. Each key has a number when you press the key. it's number is sent with the information of how hard or fast it was played. Sometimes a key or keys can get stuck open and will continue to play endlessly if the MIDI data stream is interrupted and the 0 (zero) is never received. Your piano is computerized. Honestly in most cases the hybrid action is a mistake it is an ancient thing mated to a computerized instrument and you end up with a mule that can be uncooperative at times. But in the end, your piano is like every other digital piano and has key switches that sent out MIDI data from a key sensor. As I understand it, a few aren'tr working. Either they aren't being hit by the hammer or the contact or lens is dirty. It's as simple as that. Get to work on it. Yamaha is not the only person who can work pn it. Often the solution is very simple. But you are right about one thing buying such and instrument that just has the voice of some other cheaper digital piano controlled by a complex antique action doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are truly a concert artist. I've played some of these high end pianos at the dealership and don't care for the way they play or sound. You said so yourself. You said it doesn't sound that good. Some of the newer digital really do sound good. MY DGX combined with Pianoteq is the best sounding piano I have ever played. Look up Pianoteq or Modartt they have many demos of the different pianos they allegedly emulate.
Thank you for the warning. That DOES seem like a strange design indeed. There should also be some REALLY GOOD digital pianos for less than that price for parts.
The piano was repaired today. I will update this video with deatails soon.
Do you mind sharing what year model this is? I am looking at a N1 (used) and am wondering if it may develop the same issues. The one I am looking at was made in 2015.
Mine is from around the same year.
@@NeverCryWolf64 Thank you.
I bought an N1 in 2013 and have never had an issue with it. I play some very heavy repertoire too. I think this poor fellow has just been unlucky, there certainly aren't widespread reports of this kind of failure with any of the "n" series Hybrids.
@@Mystery_Tramp Good to know. Unfortunately the one I was looking at (a 2015 model) sold. I guess I will keep my eyes out.
This message is for 'deckardwill' - who posted in 'PW' regarding this vid. My comment is - even 'people' have failures in their body sometimes - through no fault of their own, or anybody. If the issue is at least fixable, then that is good. In this case - in the hands of the 'real' expert at Yamaha, where the unit gets shipped properly to Yamaha, then I'm sure that the issue will become identified, and resolved.
I'm sorry you've had such an awful experience. I guess it comes down to lazy/inexperienced/inadequate technicians, more than anything. My YDP-164 had this exact problem. Spoke to Yamaha, they gave me the number of a fantastic technician, Tony. Tony came down with the part he knew I needed, which was a new sensor strip, popped it in, played a bit and left, no hassle. Yamaha isn't always this bad, although, I can fully understand why you might not want to buy from Yamaha again. I hope people know that this isn't a very common occurrence, and I hope this alone doesn't put you off buying a Yamaha, as they are truly wonderful digital pianos.
Thanks. I think the "hybrid" thing is a mistake. You were smart to get a true digital.
@@NeverCryWolf64 Perhaps. Honestly, at the price point that they offer those things at, if you have the space and don't absolutely require headphones, I don't know why one would go for a hybrid over like a nice Kawai GL10 or another quality low-end baby grand. Cheaper and a hundred times better in terms of feel, key action, sound, tone and looks! And with the silent system technology that can be installed on grands now, I think hybrids are just completely useless.
I'm used to Clavinovas failing after 5-6 years - my old CLP-440 is just starting to go, and my 200 series got about the same life prior to that. But this costs thousands more, so I'd expect it to last. A properly maintained acoustic is probably still the way to go for longevity.
So much money to pay for disappointment.... and they say after that Nords are too expensive. Nord Piano 5 + granny's old good upright Petrof from the middle of the 80s - that's the perfect combination for me🙂
I have heard Nords are indestructible.
I’ve had my Roland digital piano since 2001 and it’s still perfect. Great action, but the sound is a bit “boxy”. I had a Yamaha digital quite a few years ago which was the top of the range with rhythms and styles etc. Excellent speaker and amp system. Great sound. But.. the action I did not like so I sold it.
Your AvantGrand N2 has:
Keyboard Action: Specialized Grand Piano Action
You probably bought it for that "Specialized" Grand Piano Action
Unique feature of the N2 is the "Specialized" Grand Piano Action of the keys,
which gives you a very exact like a real piano key action,
but it is complicated and not very durable.
Its Amplifier is no very strong, but with a high fidelity tree way system.
Amplifiers 22 W x 10 + 80 W x 2
three way speaker system (13 cm + 2.5 cm) x 3 + (8 cm + 2.5 cm) + 16 cm x 2
A the tree way speaker system has a base + a middletone + a hightone speaker
A two way speaker system has a widerange-middletone + a hightone speaker
Three way speaker systems have usually better base, than a two way system-.
My CSP 170 has only a two way speaker system, it sounds good,
but if you compare it side by side with a N2, the N2 will sound better.
Alternatives with three way speaker system similar or better than N2:
CVP-809 /arranger piano with many (1,605 !) voices and functions
Keyboard Action: GrandTouch Keyboard: wooden keys
synthetic ebony and ivory key tops, escapement
MSRP: $14,499.00
Amplifiers (40W + 30W + 20W) × 2 + 80W
Speakers (16 cm + 5 cm + 2.5 cm (dome)) × 2 + 20 cm, Spruce Cone Speaker, Twisted Flare Port
tree way speaker system
Number of Preset Styles 675
1,605 Voices + 58 Drum/SFX Kits + 480 XG Voices
82 kg (180 lb, 12 oz)
CLP-785 Normal Digital Piano with 53 voices
GrandTouch keyboard features wooden keys
MSRP: $6,899.00-
(50 W + 50 W + 50 W) x 2
(16 cm + 8 cm + 2.5 cm (dome) + transducer) x 2, Spruce Cone Speaker
three way speaker system
Style (Auto Accompaniment) No
Number of Voices 53 voices + 14 Drum/SFX Kits + 480 XG voices
84 kg (185 lb, 3 oz)
both CLP-785 and CVP-809 have GrandTouch keyboard (not "Specialized")
more durable, but not realistic piano feeling, for my taste good enough,
but you should try it at your local dealer, if its good enough for you.
Sound quality from the speaker system should be the best on the CLP-785.
but the CLP-785 has "only" 53 voices an less functions than the CVP--809
Sound quality of the CVP-809 is somewhat less good in base section,
but the CVP-series has the most functions in terms of accompaniment styles
and number (1605) of different voices
(piano, guitar and all you can imagine, on the CVP-809 you get unbelievable many additional instruments in one piano).
Sound quality of my CSP 170 is somewhat less good than CVP-809,
but it is cheaper and it has a lot of fuctions and voices too.
692 Voices + 29 Drum/SFX Kits
14 VRM Voices,
113 Super Articulation Voices,
27 Natural! Voices,
27 Sweet! Voices,
63 Cool! Voices,
69 Live! Voices,
30 Organ Flutes!
Featured Styles
396 Pro Styles,
34 Session Styles,
4 Free Play Styles,
36 Pianist Styles
Amplifiers (45 W + 45 W) × 2
two way speaker system (16 cm + 8 cm) ×2
I DONT recommend the even cheaper CVP-701 because it has a very weak speaker system.
if you want CVP series with lots of functions and voices,
choose CVP800 or higher for the better speaker system.
If you dont want many functions but best speaker system choose CLP series
but not the lower price CLP-745 (two way speaker system),
rather choose the CLP-785 (tree way speaker system) or higher.
Wow.Thanks for sharing all this!
Why advise Yamaha products to someone disgusted by Yamaha inability to solve its issues ?
I own a top of the range Clavinova CVP-109 and am disappointed too :
- the keyboard is a bit noisy,
- there are « crackling noises » when I start to play,
- some notes became out of tune (that eventually solved by itself) !
I’ve had an N3 for several years and not a single glitch. Sorry about urs.