I'm so glad to hear it!! Explaining and justifying your choices to people is so often just as hard as coming to term with what you want personally. I hope your detransition goes excellently ☺️
@@arthur_rockwell I was questioning my gender last year and wondering if I should detransition (didn’t end up doing it) and when I was talking to my dad, who got divorced two years ago, he made that comparison too. So, divorcees and their trans kids concur!
@@revimfadli4666 Having gender dysphoria or not being content with your gender is not a choice since it's an emotional state (you can't talk yourself out of it). Transitioning is technically a choice, since you have to take direct action to do it, but a lot of people wouldn't even call it a choice since their life would be just plain miserable without it.
@@DeeegenerateThat's a good explanation. I am trans myself. In therapy they told me. In Law you can choose to be a person male or female. There is nothing else. We can offer that. If I don't want to be listed as a man, then you are not trans at all. Then I would have another disorder but not the trans-disorder. It is a sociological social order. I don't fit into one category or the other.
I detransitioned for about 4 years before retransitioning. I was young and moved across the world and didn’t want to explain myself constantly. It turned into trying to explain away my previous transition as a weird phase and internalized misogyny. I came out again because I realized that it was a performance. I was playing into it because other people liked me more as a woman. I’m so glad that I came out as nonbinary and started taking testosterone
I did that too! I detransed for around a year and a half and fell into TERF circles trying to explain away my transness. After I turned 18 and couldn't handle the woman moding anymore I started transitioning as a binary trans male, and I've been on T over a year now :)
As a detrans person, I want to say that this is probably the most nuanced and well thought-out video I have seen on the subject. I don't personally view my transition as a negative thing. I also think that my dysphoria came from mental illness, trauma, internalized homophobia, and internalized misogyny. My biggest concern with detransitioning has been "will I be alienated again?". When I came out as trans, I lost my family. If I come out as detrans, I might lose my chosen family. It's insane to me that we (the LGBTQ community) exile someone for detransitioning. Gender and sexuality are complex and open to change throughout our lives
I mean... people remain people. I feel like most people in the LGBTQ community don't actually deconstructed gender but to attack heteronormativity and pull themselves up. For example I have friends who say gender is fluid and a social construct but still call fem gay men and bottoms "girls" and treat them as a masc cishet chad would treat a woman. That doesn't look like deconstructed gender power dynamics
@Louis Kingsta I think the reason that has some issues for people is because "Why do people transition" becomes "How can we stop them from transitioning" really quickly in some areas. Or even that people will start gate keeping and over analyzing someone if they appear to not fit all the "criteria" for being trans. Fact of the matter is that gender is fluid and might change for some people. I think some people may never know they're NOT trans if they don't start presenting and identifying as a different gender. That doesn't necessarily mean that they should start medically transitioning too but by changing things up and maybe with some therapy, it can help people think things through. I don't think someone temporarily identifying as a different gender is a bad thing, because people should be allowed to experiment with their gender before making concrete decisions.
i'm a binary trans guy, little doubt about it, and this video alleviates my underlying worries about becoming a detransitioner a lot more than those that tell me it's very unlikely. i think this understanding of detransition is more empathetic and open-minded when it comes to questioning gender. it personally feels a lot truer to the way i came to understand my gender: not as an a-ha moment but a period of continuous questioning, slow acclimation to my new identity, and realization of how much comfort my current identity brings me. super well-presented essay, great job
I already posted in a gendering questioning video that it sometimes feel really freeing to read and hear about a gender identity you don't feel alined with and don't personally relate with because it helps you to also understand and be content with your own identity.
i think the knee jerk reaction to discount stories of ppl detransitioning is, at least in part, due to the fact that transphobes co opt the language in order to push transphobic ideas, such as not supporting gender affirming care, or social transition. but also, in the more leftist and progressive spaces i’m in, it’s becoming more and more accepted that identity is fluid, and people should be free to explore themselves and then decide something isn’t for them, if they choose. as long as someone doesn’t use their experience as a way to invalidate others, there’s no harm caused.
So true! A lot of transphobes will point to an instance of a person detransitioning and go, “See?! This person regrets doing it, which must mean that every trans person is in denial and just lying to themselves!” It’s weird, because a lot of those who have detransitioned almost NEVER make a 180 and suddenly see being trans as invalid; if they did, they wouldn’t have transitioned in the first place. It’s a narrative that’s definitely used by cis people who don’t know what they’re talking about.
@@gregjayonnaise8314 In addition, it's ignoring the extreme pressure that society exerts on the individual. There's a reason that LGBT youth have a higher suicide rate. It's not because they are LGBT. It's because their parents, their friends, their relatives, their co-workers, the person who shares the same bus... all of these people may be pushing, either explicitly or implicitly the idea that being LGBT is perverse. People can internalize these ideas. It's not even LGBT. It can also be observed in other minority populations. For example, in the US, the ideal beauty is white European. You can see this in movies especially. Many of the more popular black actresses are those who have more European style looks. For example a Halle Berry or a Zendaya are prime examples. They are beautiful but there are other styles of beauty. A rose may be beautiful but that doesn't mean that a oak tree lacks beauty. Both are beautiful and should be appreciated. So it's difficult to parse out the nuance and focus on the individual attributes. The emotionally charged rhetoric has a way of muddling the situation rather than clarifying the situation. The inability of a substantial population of humanity to consider alternative view points and handle unknowns or reality means that a lot of people will suffer and may die. See the increased suicide rate for LGBT youth as just one form of human sacrifice that the anti-LGBT crowd fosters. I'm not really sure how to deal with the phobes of society because they are such conservative reactionaries. Unfortunately, our society continues to operate on the assumption that this kind of hysterical conservative reactionary individual is worthy of respect or consideration. Until the majority of society stops catering to the conservatives primitive nonsense, a lot of people are going to continue to suffer and new victims and new victim groups will be created. After all, life is about change and conservatives cannot handle change.
the issue is that a lot of trans teens, when they're talking to their parents about getting medical treatment, have to argue something that runs very contrary to detrans experiences if i'm right, the "common" narrative arthur in the video talks about is: "detrans people were definitely happy with transition for a long time, but no longer think it's the best path forward for them", which is absolutely valid, i'm not saying otherwise. a common transphobic narrative, though, is "trans people are just trying to hop onto a trend, and they'll like it for a bit, before realizing how big of a mistake that it was". in the mind of a transphobic parent in particular, the former narrative is the same as the latter if a trans kid who's seeking medical transition, is trying to work it out with their (likely transphobic) parents, saying "detrans people exist and are more common than the studies cited, but they enjoyed it while they can and would probably not be alive if they didn't" would not work. transphobic people see transitioning as catastration, and any possibility that's more than a one in a million case is enough for them to go like "you're doing this for a trend, wait until you're 21" and then that child doesn't get medical treatment until they're financially independent so they have to argue the common narrative, the "detrans people exist but they usually do for money or support reasons" narrative, even if it's objectively wrong, even if it hurts detrans people because it's the only way of getting medical care for them the ultimate cause of this problem is transphobia, not detrans people, of course
Part of what I hope is that people are comfortable enough with the fluidity of gender that people feel free to experiment with their presentation and it’s not a big fusss
That's exactly my reaction too. All the detransitioned people I have watched talked at some point of "being an abomination to God" and sinning, etc. Or advocate for conversion therapy. And the comments are full of transphobes
As a 31 year old cis lady watching this video, I really feel like I'm spying on a community that isn't mine, but on the other hand it gives me so much insight into the potential struggles of the people around me. I want to keep learning. Thank you for the education 😊
I really appreciate you making this video. My trans fear of detransitioning came true and my detrans fear of transitioning again also came true. I think talking about these things and being honest with each other is incredibly important. In 8th grade (2012-2013) I began doing something similar to homeschooling and sometime after that, I saw one of Alex Bertie's videos and I realized that I felt the same way. I eventually came out to my parents. It didn't go well. For the next few years I was too afraid to leave the house, except for rare occasions, because I didn't want anyone to find out. I only had online friends and I was stealth with most of them. I had a gender therapist but I was too afraid to talk to her openly because I needed my letter for T. I was afraid to talk to other trans people because I wasn't sure if certain feelings I had were "normal" and I didn't want to be called a trender. Basically, I was completely alone. I think all of my doubt, severe isolation, pressure to be the "right kind of trans", etc. accumulated over the years and my senior year, a few months after I started T and went back off, I finally told myself "I want to be normal and have friends. I was wrong. I'm not trans." I never even had to tell my parents. They were just immediately very on board. I made a ton of friends, dated, went on wild adventures, etc. and unfortunately still was not a healthy person. I also had "I don't think I'm cis. Oh god." thoughts and things along those lines which got worse over time. I didn't tell anyone that I ever identified as trans, not even my trans friend who passed a few years ago. I was too ashamed. During the course of the pandemic I've left a very bad relationship and cut off all of those unhealthy friendships that I made. I started making a lot of progress in therapy but I've been very isolated. I was put on new meds and all of a sudden the once passing "I think I am trans" thoughts intensified. Then, I had a dream that someone directed me to the men's restroom and called me "sir" and I woke up thinking "Crap. I don't think I can avoid it anymore." I finally talked to some more trans people, read other people's stories, and realized I wasn't alone in anything that I felt. There was always someone else who felt similarly. I think a lot of my issue has always been my own insecurity. Especially with wanting people to like me. I also think I'm more comfortable being treated like a woman socially even though I feel like a man, want to be seen as a man, and feel like I should physically be a cis man. It doesn't make total sense but I think the main reason for that is being afraid that people will Know. I'll "do being a man wrong" and they'll find out I'm not "normal" and I will be humiliated. It was easier for me to figure out how to be a girl that people liked. Someone people wanted. Being trans makes avoiding my fear of rejection very hard lol. My parents aren't great about it again and some other people haven't been either. When I think about it now, if people were totally cool with trans people AND people who have detransitioned, I'm pretty sure I personally never would have detransitioned. I'm trying to just be me now and I think EMDR with my new therapist is helping some already. I'm starting T again next month. I want to be me AND live my life this time. Before, those seemed like 2 totally separate options. Really hoping that I'll be ready to look for friends soon.
Wow those studies are pretty bad.. it's upsetting that we can't just face reality.. gender, identity, dysphoria, these are all complicated things. We should be able to admit that. Can we just admit that there are multiple causes of dysphoria and wanting to transition? And therefore multiple ways that it could be treated? That doesn't invalidate that being trans is a real thing.. I feel like we're all expected to only accept One True Way to be trans.
I totally agree! I think especially when you're taking an action like transition that's so stigmatized it's tempting to try and make everything black and white (like people, my former self included, who buy into the hazy trans brain studies). We shouldn't need to perfectly explain why some people are trans or why some people detransition to accept that transition makes many people quite happy! Some things, especially gender, are just quite complex
I think it would be easier to admit if 1. Transphobes didn't run the world to ruin the life of anyone trans or trans adjacent and 2. If the community was not so gatekeepy and actually believed that all this is complicated
I vaguely remember some issues with nonbinary people seeking medical transition and given a binary transition which didn't help. I think this is a past (or is it still happening?) example of just how oversimplified this issue is, and I think that's the fault of transphobes being the main people that have to be contented with, so we're just so often held back trying to combat it
This video is the most balanced look at detransition that I've seen. This was so refreshing to watch. I'm a trans man 10 years into my transition and I am extremely happy with my transition. I love and feel connected with my body now. Yet, I still sometimes feel sad about my transition because it has resulted in a lot of pain (emotionally and physically). We are all complex humans, nothing is black and white. Thank you.
I feel like a large issue with transitioning is that there is pressure to have a “traditional” and linear transition. Gender expression can be messy, it can be random, it can be mixed and personal, and it can fluctuate. You don’t have to pick one label for your entire life, or even pick a label at all. You can have times where you have many labels and that makes you happy, and times where you have none and that makes you happy. I love messy genders that make you happy.
❤thank you for this. I'm a feminine presenting transman who still havent told many people about myself and how I identify. I've always loved my femininity and feel empowered by it but I also know at the same time I'm not a woman. I know I'll never "pass" as a man but that's okay to me. Because the most important thing to me is that I just want to be myself!
This is super important!! I was fine as a teenaged “girl” it was fine but at some point the idea of being a “woman” didn’t sit well with me. And now just because I didn’t want to grow up. I’m nearly 30 now and it still doesn’t feel right.. so I use they/them pronouns and I’m trying to figure out my gender lol.
Personally, I find that the English language binary of Cisgender/Transgender is difficult. The notion that “if you are in any way, shape, or form not perfectly happy with your given gender, you are Not Cisgender” is a challenge. There was a period where I actively expressed my femininity as a part of my trans* non-binary identity, but realized that I preferred being seen as a Gay Man. I still don’t feel like “cisgender male” is accurate, but I don’t really identify as trans or even non-binary. I never transitioned. My native ancestors used the term ku’saat (which we now describe as Two Spirit) and that’s the word I cling to because there is no direct English translation in the Cis/Trans/Non-binary model. It recognizes that I have a male and a female spirit inside and it is important to acknowledge both
I've run into something similar, where "trans" just feels too much like being across? Like, just because I'm not on the near shore, doesn't mean I'm on the far shore. I'm sitting on the riverbed, watching the light reflect off the water's surface. Calling me trans because I'm not cis feels wrong, even if the identity I use falls under an umbrella that falls under the trans umbrella. 'Trans' does not describe me. On your second paragraph: have you heard of the label bigender? it falls under the NB umbrella, and basically means that someone experiences two gender identities -I don't know if there's a nuance difference between bigender and two spirit, but from my understanding it's a reasonable translation.
I really enjoy how you established the difference between choosing to detransition and having transition regret. The experience of the drag performer Eureka O'Hara was really illuminating for me-- she says she doesn't like to say "detransitioned" but instead says "I transitioned to living as a woman, and then I felt as though that wasn't working out for me, so I transitioned again." That perspective, in my opinion, has the power to allow the conversation to include people who detransition without stigmatizing them as either betraying the community or saying their experience is illegitimate. There shouldn't be anything wrong with having multiple steps on your journey and growing and evolving in different ways and changing your mind. Ending up at what might appear to be the same place as you started doesn't mean that the experience wasn't valuable or necessary for you.
When I first saw this title it did make me nervous as a trans man but I think that really does just have to do with the stigma around detransitioning. After watching it and sitting and thinking I feel really at peace with the choices I've made and am making. I really appreciate you opening this conversation that so many are afraid to have
Aw thanks! Yeah, "at peace with the choices I've made and am making" is how I feel as well and what I hope for everyone who's struggling with their gender 😊
From a detrans person, thank you for this video. I appreciate that you give the truth about detransition and not just try and sweep us under the rug. Too often (if not always) people like to treat detrans people as mistaken idiots, an insignificant statistic or transphobic psy-ops. Transition (social and medical) helped me until it didn’t, but that’s not the narrative trans people like to use for detrans people and it hurts to be misrepresented. It hurts to see those from a community I used to take part in, one I used to love, treat me like a devil for having a different experience. You have a thoughtful and compassionate approach - I look forward to watching more of your channel :)
This comment means a lot to me. I really hoped that my video would accurately represent the experiences of some detrans people (obviously it's hard to describe it universally, especially as an outsider). I *so* get why it would be so hurtful for your own community to so radically misrepresent your experiences and a large part of my inspiration for making this video was trying to bridge the gap (in that, I think many trans people unfortunately need to have misconceptions corrected by someone happily transitioned because people tune out detransitioners 🙁). I personally like to view the community very broadly -- including binary trans people who complete every medical intervention, nonbinary people, trans people who don't medically transition, gendernonconforming people, and detransitioners alike (etcetc not a comprehensive list). We have all had so many similar and also so many different experiences and I hope by listening to one another we can grow and support each other. Hopefully your detransition is going great and I am happy to hear you're sticking around to watch more of my content 😊
I feel so bad for detrans folks, the trans community and the medical community basically want to ignore them as inconvenient and crazy and unworthy of treatment for what they actually need. And not everyone who detransitions does so for the same reasons either, and I always see over simplistic reasons people detrans from trans people and other people who are afraid that detrans people will invalidate people who choose to transition. They always say people detransition just because society is transphobic but when you actually listen to the stories from detransitioners, it's usually much more complicated than that.
I know it's not the same scenario, but I really feel for you as a pansexual person. Being bi/pan seems to just be an excuse for people to either ignore your sexuality (you're straight, right?) or dismiss it outright (you're just greedy/stupid/indecisive/slutty/ridiculous), and that happens in the community as well as out of it. It's like "You're making me feel all alone but I know for a fact that I'm not the only human with this kind of experience or perspective - you just wish we weren't a thing, for some insecure reason to do with who YOU identify as." This politics of lack approach to the rights of minorities, people at large, other animals and the environment is a very sneaky tactic that has been exploited by those on top for so long that average, loving, caring people seem to live their lives by it too. Someone should make tshirts that say "Your rights and my rights are not mutually exclusive. The world is big enough to treat everyone and everything with the respect it inherently deserves as a creation. P.S. fuck you" See, I'm part of the problem lol it makes me so salty....
I feel like some of that is that the loudest detrans people have become transphobic, and I think it is so important that positive/neutral experiences get more attention to balance that noise out.
"You can't know with certainty that transition is gonna work." This is the crux of it. We should be accepting of the fact that life involves trying things, and if someone else's choices make you feel insecure, you might wanna think about why that is.
This felt so incredibly refreshing to hear. Detransition for me has always been a bit of a trigger subject because I then start obsessing about thoughts similar to what I've heard detransition people have, mostly out of fear that I could be one of them. The idea that every detransitioner is different and that it can work out okay aslong as you're tackling your issues is really what I think a lot of trans identifying people need to hear, so thank you for that. I also had no clue those 1% stats were a myth, but I'm glad they are if I'm honest... I have huge respect for this video, and keep it up x
@@christinaedwards5084 Of course, but not "telling you something is wrong", rather that you haven't thought about it enough or not considered some things
As a trans person who’s been obsessed lately with detransition stories, THANK YOU for making this video. I’m so thankful I transitioned about a decade ago, a few years before the big boom. I still had to get an hrt letter, and I chose to obtain that from a Christian counselor who’d never dealt with gender issues (had been seeing my main therapist at an LGBT clinic for about a year) but said he was up for the challenge of at least making sure I was healthy/fit/had no underlying issues that may be prompting my desire to transition. I’m really thankful I didn’t receive ONLY “affirming” care. When detransitioners started becoming more openly vocal, I was years into my transition, happily living mostly stealth. Tbqh I was a bit nervous about listening to their stories at first - what if I identified with their path a bit too much? What if it made me doubt my decision? What if, god forbid, it somehow forced me to want to be a woman again?! 😨 Obviously the answer was in the question with that one hah. But this was confirmed by the fact that hearing detrans narratives only made me _more_ certain I made the right choice. Because of this, I have the utmost compassion and respect for open detransitioners. We are not the same in any way - we didn’t have the same unhappiness, we didn’t transition for the same reasons, and we didn’t get the same things out of the transition, we didn’t/don’t have the same goals. Not only is there room for both of us, but in fact, I believe both trans _and detrans_ people have almost the obligation to let people who are questioning know about the differences - and the regrets.
Thank you for sharing your story! It's interesting how the concept of detransition can be frightening even when you're happy with your transition -- I definitely relate to that. And I'm happy to liked the marriage analogy; I was proud of it haha
@@arthur_rockwell Arthur, I am a retired K teacher, and unfortunately, some children have been seriously abused as young boys or girls, and in their child's mind, they get the idea that they wouldn't be experiencing this if they were the opposite sex. This is trauma, please look at mrmenno's YT channel. He is happily gay, but wanted to be girl as young child. If you have OCD, this presents a serious conflict of interest on the part of the therapist, if they think the transition will solve the OCD. You are very, very young. You do not understand the conflict of interest of the pharma and mental health fields. Young people need to realize that life is long, and you could change your mind and have regret for the rest of your life. Life is long.
Thank you for this comment. I'm in my 30s and I desperately need to transition. But I have always been afraid of the detransition narratives because I didn't want to be convinced. But in the end ...You're right! Those various narratives just make me more certain than ever about my decision.
Honestly as a detransitioner talking openly with trans people about my experiences made me even more sure of my decision to detransition lol, and made me more certain of my decision to stand by trans people even when it felt like the only community that I could relate to was the gender critical one (I think it's gotten better since then thankfully, there are more options now), I was just really afraid that my trans friends were making the same mistake I was because my ftm friends had such similar experiences with dysphoria and such and some had complicated histories with trauma and stuff so there were a lot of factors there, but one of my mtf friends helped me by giving me permission to vent all my gender critical anxiety to her which she then patiently reassured me about and explained her perspective, and I think because her experiences were inherently different to mine I was able to accept it easier when she said we had different experiences and she explained it better than my ftm friends had (I think they were also struggling to accept my detransition in some ways and might have been viewing it as internalised transphobia or something because I'd been expressing anxiety about regretting medical transition for quite a while beforehand, so they were possibly trying to convince me I was trans but ended up just convincing me that they might not be, we've worked it out now but it was weird for a while), that whole experience is why I think discussing detransition in trans spaces is so important, I can relate to trans people in ways other cis people will never, but I am not trans, so I keep having a weird identity crisis where I'm comfortable being a woman but I still don't feel cis, idk it's a weird mess. I just think it'd be cool if we could talk like we are part of the same community, just different sides with different journeys you know? If we talk we can help people figure out which is the right path to take and help them live their life with as little regret as possible, we can make it okay to choose either path and ultimately stop detransition from being used by transphobes to scare people away from a gender experience that could save their life.
I really appreciate this video. I’m a nonbinary transmasc person who has debated whether medical transition is right for me for several many years. When I was feeling super unsure about transition it wasn’t helpful to see the trans community talk so dismissively about detransition because it was a genuine concern of mine, and it often went along with a really narrow view of what being trans is that didn’t necessarily include me. Neither was it helpful to encounter some really transphobic black and white thinking from some detrans material I read. I think your approach is absolutely correct to frame this about minimizing transition regret rather than this ridiculous weren’t really trans argument.
Thanks for this comment! Detransition/transition regret was certainly a genuine concern of mine as well and I hope you find what medical transition (or not) works for you :)
RUclips constantly puts detransition videos in my feed and it always hurt as a lot of the voices from the videos recommended to me talked about how much they regretted transitioning. I am grateful for having a video that feels more informative. It’s a really tough world to navigate with so many voices but it should be treated as perfectly natural no matter how someone identifies.
When I started considering medical transition I sought out the perspectives of detransitioners and I found it really reassuring... a lot of people who describe themselves as detransitioners actually continued on their gender journey as a nonbinary person after they realized they weren't as binary as they thought. It made me realize it's ok for me to take steps that might make me mentally healthier and more comfortable, without necessary knowing all the answers or being able to predict my future feelings. Also, as a divorced person, I can absolutely say that people tell you all this sh!t about marriage and put weird resentments on you if you divorce.
I can definitely advocate for transmed spaces being incredibly toxic for dysphoria. I've never been a person with incredibly strong dysphoria, it can be bad but it isn't "can't even look at myself in the shower" bad, it's more like "for a while I coped with dysphoria by pretending that I was just borrowing someone else's body" type bad. But when I started watching transmed type RUclipsrs I felt so weird about myself and constantly questioned if I needed to be more dysphoric or less feminine. Although I know that the word "man" best describes me and I feel like a man through and through, I also like 'feminine' clothes and I'm not a macho dude. Nowadays it's just helped me realized that I'm not just transitioning because of gender stereotypes, but because it's what really feels right to me. I started T about 3 months ago and just simple things like seeing more body hair on me have been filling me with complete and total joy. I completely feel for people who've had bad dysphoria and found transitioning DIDN'T bring them joy. It's important to remember that transitioning can really only go so far to help you and you can't go into it thinking it's necessary or that it will solve all your problems. And of course, as in anything in life, it's important to accept that there's a possibility you're wrong. Having your mind open to other options makes the whole thing a lot easier and let's you turn back sooner than having to go through all the denial.
Thank you for making this video! As a trans guy who’s had some bad experiences with detrans folks, watching videos like these makes me a little nervous some times. Keep in mind I 100% understand that a majority of de-transitioners are lovely, I just got unlucky. I know I’ve always wanted to transition, but I also have heavy anxiety and the idea that I might be wrong somehow terrifies me. I spent so long trying to just convince people I love just to use the right pronouns that the idea I might detransition sounds like it’d be humiliating more than anything else, even if right now I KNOW I’m a guy. This video has really chilled me out though and I somehow feel more affirmed than I did before.
I think the word "detransition" gives off this idea that the person is no longer Trans, which I've heard is often hurtful for a lot of people. I wonder if using the term "retransition" could be more appropriate? Because as you said gender identity is nuanced and changes our entire life, so it's not really that they're not "real trans", they just realized that a new transition might help them better in that new stage of life
@@frank_calvert That seems logical, but “de-transition” often implies that the person in question “undid” everything and went back to square one, when that’s not always the case. As some individuals in the comments say, choosing to detransition helped them to experience and explore more of their feelings on their identity, and they didn’t necessarily have the same identity as they did before transitioning. Furthermore, there are people who still identify as trans who no longer identify with how they were post-transitioning (detransitioning didn’t mean they were no longer identifying as trans in some way). However, that’s just my way of looking at it based on what I’ve heard and seen here, and it’s more respectful to leave it to the community in question anyways and the individual who is affected (like those in the video whom Arthur says no longer think of themselves/identity as trans). (Also, if I’m being ignorant or disrespectful in this reply, please let me know. I wanted to contribute a second opinion based on detransitioners’ comments here, but ultimately as a person not in that community I don’t want to speak over them and their preferred language.)
I was thinking exactly this though out. Okay, it was more along the line that it's not a detransition but another transition but I like retransition better!
@@frank_calvert yep. everything is aaaalllways about someone else's feelings when the person isn't even dealing with them or what have you. There are times to care what others think and then times not to. This over caring and changing up things is going to make people burst.
I so appreciate and value the nuance that you approached this topic with. As a detransitioner myself, it's so easy to feel isolated; a community that once had been my floating device in the middle of the ocean seemed to be causing me to sink all of a sudden instead. Even with detransition itself, resources are very difficult to come by, I remember digging through Reddit for hours at a time just trying to scrap up any information I could. I have BPD, and PTSD. Without going too in-depth, my life has been very traumatic up until this point. Transition meant everything to me, I was more than just sure of myself, and I hadn't had any doubt. That is, until after a little under three months on T. Suddenly, things just...didn't feel right. I can't pinpoint my exact feelings, it was just this general air of discomfort and I started to feel that I couldn't recognize myself. I'm more comfortable now just existing. I think I tried escaping one box by entering another. And it's really sad to me that my experience is cast away simply because my story does not fit the typical trans narrative you often see. I think it's really important that detransition is spoken about more openly...people like myself deserve to have easy access to information about feelings that I know from firsthand experience cause a lot of distress and guilt.
Thank you so much for this comment! Detransitioners are very much part of the community, in my mind, and I really hoped this video would speak to your guys' experiences.
THANK YOU for this video! I'm an enby who has always had many queer men and straight women in my life, but very few gay women. As a result, I've been unable to see myself as anything other than "wrong." I didn't identify with the other people around me who inhabit bodies that look like mine, but I also didn't look like the people around me with whom I could identify. It only recently occurred to me that there might be people who look AND act like me, and I just haven't found them, yet. Recently, my exposure to butch people has been so validating!! And, knowing that the "am i a butch lesbian? a trans man? neither?? both????" thoughts are fairly common is such a relief. The cishet people around me often assume that queer people are very certain in their identities and sometimes, I want to think that way, too. But, it's hard out here. Thank you, again, for this video ❤️
So agree that discovering the butch community can be a comforting and validating experience. I also had the "why aren't you certain?? Why don't you know??" thoughts for a long time, but now I've cut my past self so much slack. Life is complex and being gendernonconforming/transgender can be a complicated, hard, and rewarding journey!
A friend of mine went through transition from male to transfem non binary he went through hormones and started socially to id as a transfem person. But recently he decided to start a detrans. It shouldn't be something to fear, everyone can go through a gender journey and it is fine. He has decided he is much more okay with IDing as a feminine presenting man rather than a trans woman. He decided to keep his name change though.
I'm gender nonbinary but I present as female for the sake of others. In truth I don't really care, I'm probably agender. I have realized that my ideal body shape would be completely androgynous. Flat chest, flat everything, no curves. My chest caused me a bit of dysphoria in my early 20s, but now that I'm a mom and have breastfed, I realized the benefit of bonding with my child and I'm glad I have them. Ultimately I have come to terms with my body as it is, and am aware that in another life I could have transitioned, however I don't know if living as a man would have left me truly satisfied in any case. Gender is extremely complicated. And transition or no, ultimately there is a limit on what can be done with the body you have. No surgery in the would could give me the body I wish I had. It is important for everyone to come to terms with their body because while surgery can help with the dysphoria and makes a big difference for some people, it is not a magic fix-all.
I think you hit the nail on the head with how studies operationalize "detransitioning" and how there is basically no consistency in the field. It is such a blind spot that the research field doesn't care to answer.
I know the thumbnail was a joke, but I’d honestly love to see you do more videos a la Contrapoints if that’s something you’re interested in. Left Tube has nothing in terms of FtM representation, it would be incredibly refreshing
I think that the reason is that trans women are targeted more often and that means that they have to fight 10x harder. Trans men don't have to fight to go to the bathroom and nobody is going around screaming that they are going into the men's spaces to r@pe the cismen. That situation generally pushes trans women to the left and they have more of a need to come out and fight for their rights regardless of the consequences because the group doesn't have much to lose. Trans women have no options even if they are stealth they know that if they get outed they may lose everything and many trans women have been victims of violence because they were outed. They have to find a way to change society for their survival. **To be clear I am not saying that trans men don't face discrimination, but they are in less physical danger than trans women.**
I'm about to see a doctor who specializes in hormone therapy. I've identified as trans since I was 13, and I'm now 18. I've had a lot of mental health issues in my life, and something I've noticed is that at the absolute worst of my suicidality, anxiety, etc, I was trans. I've done so much work in therapy and I probably feel the best I ever have in my life mental health wise right now. I identify as trans now as well. Like many others, I avoided detransitioning narratives out of anger, fear, and confusion. I was terrified I would decide it was better to stay in a box that I had hated my whole life (cisgender female). Your distinction between detransitioning and having transition regret has meant the world to me. I've never heard it described that way, and it resonates heavily with me. I've done a lot of external research and introspection, and I want to start testosterone. It's not a fix all and I always knew that. But I truly believe it will be such a positive for me. Fretting about if I'm dysphoric enough, male enough, etc, has done nothing. I know this is a good decision for me right now, but I cannot see the future and that's okay. This also makes me feel more comfortable with reevaluating my feelings about my transition down the line. If a certain result of hrt does not feel right to me, I don't have to continue. But I also don't have to immediately detransition and say I was wrong from the start. It's clearly not that black and white, and I want to do my best to be okay with that. Thank you.
More talk of the dysphoric transmascs but romantically lesbian PLEASE. I felt so seen by you the 1st person I've ever heard talk about it. I was on T for almost 4 years and had top surgery before realizing I don't desire to be male, but very masc. Neutral pronouns are not always accepted so in the case id have to choose, male pronouns and descriptors feel more comfortable. I don't mind that I'm biologically female, especially after having top surgery and my voice lowering. Yet I don't feel like a woman. And not just in a social/society way, but internally. I tried just being a masc woman but that wasn't enough, transitioned, but living and looking entirely as a man was too much. I usually use androgyne or genderqueer or transmasc to describe my gender. I say I'm androgynous leaning masc both on the outside and internally. Im a masculine PERSON who happens to be female. I wish it wasn't so confusing, I wish I wasn't this way and I wish I knew an easier term and way to describe it to others when asked. And yes I do feel much more comfortable in queer afab spaces/lesbian community. I admire buches and how some are comfortable using the term to identify their gender. Wish that was also something more talked about for better understanding. I'm more comfortable being referred to as partner, but other gendered words id choose uncle over aunt for example. And my dad gives my favorite compliment. He said "dude you look sharp!" Which feel more masc but feels more fitting than handsome. Although id take handsome over pretty. It's a very confusing spot to be in and I tend to say I'm homosexual to describe I'm attracted to other afab ppl who id as either women or genderqueer themselves. But I know for some that could come off as I would see binary trans folks as their agab but thats just not the case. I just simply have no clue what else I'm suppose to use to describe it. Also wanted to add, if someone transitions to alleviate dysphoria but then they succeed in that and then choose to stop hrt, does that make them less trans just because they weren't trans in a binary way? Thats why I still from time to time use transmasc. I did need to do some things to alleviate dysphoria. I transitioned to be more masculine, but not a transman (binary) even though at the time of transitioning I didn't realize that. For some, transition has an ending and for others they may continue hrt for the rest of their lives. If anyone reads this and can relate, I'm sorry that you can relate bc it sucks, but also hello I too exist in this space and you're not alone.
Hey hi similar deal with me. Yeah I wish it wasn't so complicated. I have a dear friend who is a trans man who is binary but regrets T because they lost all their hair. They stopped taking T but honestly it makes no difference. Their identity is still a trans man.
i am going through this crisis exactly rn. I am planning on transitioning in the next coming year(s) but I am scared I will never feel comfortable being perceived as fully male and it feels weird leaving the lesbian community. I don't know if im a feminine binary man or non binary, and quite frankly I still dont even understand wtf gender is. Its like i feel more like a gay 'twinkish' man, but I am only into women and its just aarghghghhg
I'm a cis woman. I have beard envy and it made me question my gender. I put NB in my Twitter profile, bought a binder, and tried out they/them. I still have the binder and have only worn it twice. NB, and they/them didn't feel right. It was also good to read that Testosterone is NOT a guaranteed beard and I didn't want all the body hair that T gives. It was really good to question my gender, it makes me feel more comfortable being a woman. Getting out of strict gender roles (Mormonism) helped A LOT because Mormons only conception of women was as mothers which was NOT right for me at all, where father's don't have to deal with kids as much. I still don't know why I have beard envy maybe I'll try dude drag sometime.
Crazy because I am a trans man who was raised Mormon. And although I feel very secure and pleased with my transition so far, I never realized how detrimental mormonism is on a trans person. Somewhere subconsciously I still feel guilty for my existence even if I feel much better now that I am presented as male, the walking on eggshells, and deep rooted guilt from Mormonism really rose up. I just found it cool that another mormon related person is on here because the deeply ingrained gender roles is very detrimental towards trans people raised in the church.
i also grew up in a very mormon household in utah valley, surrounded by mormons, never even hearing about lgbtq people until i was about 13! i agree that is has a large affect on how we may see gender roles/envy other genders, and i say that as a questioning transmasculine/ non-binary person.
I am detrans. One of the " rare one percent" I was on t for six years, my whole adult life. Nobody wants to listen to me in the medical field when I call to report my detransition.
this was a really informative video! I think that many people don't like to acknowledge detransitioners because if they do, they have their own worries about whether they might regret their transition in the future. it was nice to hear about another side of detransition, especially when detransition is generally marked as regret rather than other possible factors that may come into play.
Yes! I found the idea of detransitioners way more scary when I hadn't yet transitioned than now when I'm pretty content in my transition. Back then, I felt comforted when people would try and claim detransition was incredibly rare, but now that my own worries are quieter it's way easier to acknowledge that people having varying degrees of happiness and complex opinions about their transitions.
"gender is hard and we're all doing our best" lol so true it hurts. love your kind & nuanced approach to the subject. it's really frustrating when people insist detrans people were never really trans & btw they're statistically insignificant anyway. I mean I get the inclination to deny detrans people their experiences when it feels like the loudest of the bunch are gender critical bigots. But it's still not true and far from the whole picture.
Thank you!! I have been heavily questioning lately, but this reminded me that my first priority should be being happy and content as myself, not necessarily trying to “figure out” my true identity, because I’m sure that will eventually manifest itself. Forcing doubt (and negativity) on myself has not been helpful
BRUUUH the showering in the dark thing so true, growing up in like, transmed spaces and specfically hearing kalvin garrah (ew) talk about how much he hated everything about himself really imprinted on me, so i grew up thinking i need to hate my ALL of my body to be trans, which just isnt healthy at all
As a non-binary person, I found this video really insightful and I really love the way you talk about how experiences of gender are varied, even in a single individual over time. It also reminds me of why, at least right now, I don't plan on medically transitioning in any way because I'm... somewhat? Mostly? Fine with the body I have, and even though there are things about it I wish I could change (e.g. muscle mass, voice range, "softness?" of facial features). To me, it's just not worth it especially because I honestly don't know how I would feel about living with the results, so I wouldn't even say that I'm "transitioning" but more so changing the way I dress and present so that I feel the most comfortable. It's also different because as a non-binary person, I'm not going from one end to another, I'm trying to get the world to see not "man" or "woman" but just... me. And different NB people will also have different goals, so like some NB people might medically transition as well as socially transition whereas I think at least right now I'm most comfortable with just shifting the cadence of my voice and wearing a binder sometimes, etc.
Thanks for the comment! I'm always happy to hear when my videos speak to many different life experiences. I am, I suppose, a binary trans man but I certainly view my community as encompassing trans/non-binary/GNC and strive to make content which reflects that
Social Influences!! when i (a probably cis gay guy) was first discovering what being gay meant (like 2012), i was exposed to a LOT of homophobic rhetoric and hate crimes that it made me feel worse about being gay. i felt like my life was going to be dangerous and awful despite never having experienced this for myself, and it made me stay closeted all thru highschool when i could have easily and safely been out!! and i was hearing these things from other gay people!! i totally agree that we need to be more careful about how we talk about being queer in queer spaces and to focus on being positive. it's from learning more about trans people's experiences when i started questioning myself that made me realize a lot of that!!
Thank you for this video, it was clear and still had room for nuance. Although as someone who is 63 of age, one would think that such a person would know what he/she is doing, but transition is 'new' for me now I finally dared to make the step. 'Detransitioning' and the stories around it, is certainly one of the things I worry about [although the furter I'm in the proces, the smallers the worries get]. Your video analysed much about detransitioning in a clear way for me. [it made also clear to me that you are working on your PHD] Pardon my my mistakes in writing and syntaxis; English is not my first laguage, in my region we first learn Dutch, French and German.
This showed up in my recommended videos and I'm so glad it did. As a cis person, the divorce metaphor and the emphasis on decoupling detransition (the action) from regret (the feeling) has given me a lot to think about and provided me with a much better understanding of detransitioning. Thank you for a well-researched and informative video essay!
First I wanted to thank you for posting this video. I am in the process of coming to terms that I am transgender (mtf) I wanted to research why people detransition. I saw a Ton of very negative content on that subject that I felt didn't apply to me. I really think you helped me reduce some of my concerns about going on hormones. I think for each person this is a very different process and one we need to work through on our own. It is hard because of me, there is a certain amount of comfort I have built into my male life. I know what to expect and even though I think it would be great to have been born female, making an unknown jump is scary.
Thank you for making this video. It allowed me to think of my transition in a much healthier way with far less anxiety. The marriage analogy I think helps in both transition and detransition. I am marrying a new body, a new name and a new way of being seen. If this relationship becomes toxic, I can always get a divorce. But for now, I love this new me and wish to cherish it. If I would not marry it now, I would regret it later.
This video really made me think, I don't have anything to add. I'm glad I saw this as a cis person, I've always heard this argument of "Oh, all these trans people are going to detransition in a few years! They just want attention, that's why they're making *us* do the work of figuring out pronouns" and it's hard to respond. Thank you for making this, it's incredibly insightful and you're a fantastic speaker.
People get so worked up about the idea of being wrong. Detransitioners speaking up circa 2016 (when trans and gender critical ideology seemed to BOOM) actually HELPED me make the decision to go ahead and medically transition. I'd questioned since age 16 and began T at age 27 (long time to be debating with myself). The thing that bothered me the most was a diagnosis via a 'feeling'. I mean, how was I to know what another person FELT? Did I feel like a man? Not really. Men generally did not treat me as one of their own. But a woman? Nope. Women often told me to get the hell out of the female restroom and I was made to feel unwelcome in female spaces (to any MTFs reading this - being not considered 'woman enough' is a thing that genetic females experience as well...it is not outside of the female experience to be ostracized for being 'too masculine' -- sad but true). Before this, I'd heard those 0.1% detrans rates and was genuinely curious how those were calculated. In 2010 I knew of two desisted females and one transman and one trans woman. Small sample size but pretty large desistence rate for 11 years ago. Because of what I'd seen with my own eyes, something felt incorrect about that data. Now as a scientist myself, I see it all the time - bias everywhere. It's not just in the soft sciences. Hell...our own algorithms to analyze data begin to bias themselves on their own. Anyway, since then I've met a shitload of trans, detrans, desisted, questioning, all sorts of people. I've met incels who hate women but want to be one and lesbians who hate men (yet want to be one as well). People like Trisha Paytas claiming transness has people all up in arms, but if it's "just a feeling" then what makes her feelings less valid than mine...unless stereotypes DO play a role (of course they do :P). But if she wants to go on testosterone one day and use 'he/him' pronouns at some point...whatever. That's Trisha's decision. It isn't an empirical diagnosis, and the majority of people who talk about that white/gray matter study probably have 'gender conforming' brains. Also fMRI is filled with circle jerk confirmation biasing usually.
Mm yeah I personally think that overall the gender critical content I read didn't leave me better off *but* there were a handful of things that, similar to what you've described, helped me process my choice to transition. Like hearing about the historically lesbian language of "female man" and GCs descriptions of "females on testosterone" were something I related to for some time (though no longer tbh). I also had a hard time with gender "feelings" and so I did take some comfort in talking about my actions in an ~objective~ sense (like especially pre T calling myself a man felt a bit crazy, but calling myself a female man felt like my lived reality).
@@arthur_rockwell Why would the gender critical stuff leave you better off? That stuff is literal transphobia. Do women reading MRA websites supposed to feel better about themselves? Or Black people reading "race realism" supposed to feel better about themselves?
@@jonathanxavier2026 I think you were being rhetorical but I actually feel way better about myself when I read MRA websites. Safely immersing yourself in opposing extremist views is a good way to give yourself a new perspective, reframe your own arguments, and get a better understanding of the emotions and experiences behind bigoted views. I was really fascinated by MRA and MGTOW in my early 20s and am extremely thankful for the exposure at that time when, as a lesbian, I didn't really have a dog in the fight. Now I'm a parent of a son and I feel way better prepared and aware of any potential harmful attitudes that could manifest as my kid gets older. Don't give opposing viewpoints your time and consideration if they will be bad for you, but don't be afraid of them outright. Reading something doesn't legitimize it.
@ippos_khloros Gender identity being separable from bodily sex, and bodily sex not being as clearly binary as was once believed, aren't far-fetched, even though they sound strange to anyone raised to believe that gender = sex and sex = male or female. The medical community once believed that homosexuality was a form of mental illness, and it knows different now. We all used to believe it was not "natural" because we believed other mammals didn't exhibit same-sex pair bonding...except that now we know they actually sometime do, and in some species, far more often that we expected. Same with cross-sex social behavior even including pair bonding and/or mating behaviors: they happen in other kinds of mammals, so they can no longer be considered some sort of social invention unique to humans. Historically, shockingly, gay and trans people have always existed and in many societies, even in antiquity, were revered rather than reviled, but European colonialism and the far-reaching and highly invasive influence of The Church did much to erase, censor, and suppress art, poetry, and ancient texts in which same-sex love or cross-gender people were represented. So the sense that this is all some unnatural and newfangled notion is false, based on hundreds of years of deliberate erasure by organized religious and political conquest. But regardless of what our taboos are or aren't, modern medicine no longer believes gay or transgender people to be suffering from a mental illness, but recognizes that they are as valid as straight and cisgender people, psychologically and biologically.
Thank you for making this video. I feel like this gets overlooked a lot. When I was deciding if transition was right for me, I made a decision that if it ever felt wrong, I would detransition. With that in mind, I searched for detrans spaces to see if there was anything I should consider before I started medical transition, and overwhelmingly the pages I went to were filled with terfs and transphobes. I think detransition should be discussed in trans circles, but not as a failure. Things change and there are so many reasons for people to detransition. Unfortunately, the loudest detrans voices seem to be the ones saying "transition wasn't right for me, thefore it is always wrong and trans people do not exist."
This was a great video, a really valuable conversation that I wish could be had in good faith more prevalently throughout trans spaces. There's so much nuance and complexity with regards to peoples' personal relationships with gender and transition, it's a shame that detransition is so often only portrayed in a negative light. This felt really useful and even comforting as someone who's questioning their gender and what transition steps I might want to take in the future, so thank you :)
As a trans person who has struggled for like 5 years now to gain access to transition and STILL HASN'T because of various intersecting discriminations and who has had detransitioned people used against itself so much and done the same as you, listened to so many detrans people, there genuinely is nothing more reassuring than detransitioned people!!!! Like it's so good to see the bodies and experiences of detrans people and also! See their happiness even their struggles!!! Idk. The problem really isn't detransition or detransitioned people it's the lack of agency over our choices and bodies that trans (and honestly detrans!) people face. I would honestly rather just make my choice, informed and well supported as i am and not face so much doubt from the medical system and later regret it than go through having to explain my gender over and over again and being accused of lying or even actually just lying just so I can get bodily autonomy.... If I make the "wrong" choice please just.... Let me. I'm an adult person I can DEAL with the consequences of my own decisions if you let me make them. But yeah thank you for this it's genuinely the best outlook on detransition I've seen online!
I also would like to say that what you said about what will make you happier over all with addressing problems in therapy is true BUT also not safely possible for all trans people. I tried addressing my csa with my therapist who i was already working with because I wanted to transition, because i trusted him and it literally became this conversion therapy thing you talked about and I genuinely would rather die than go through that again and i DO NOT recommend anyone else should do that. I am lucky and have a great support system but surviving abusive therapy is not easy and it made everything just so much worse i wish i had just stuck with talking about it with friends who understand.
This is the first time that I heard that people think that detransitioners don't exist. Based on my current interactions with the community, my understanding is that it is rare but it does happen and that most detranstioners do it for various reasons including societal expectations, financial stress, or because their body doesn't react well to the treatment. My understanding is that the vast majority of detransitioners are in fact still trans. So yeah, I mean if you haven't told me that some people don't think they exist I would have never known this to be the case. As far as I'm concerned, detrans people that still identify as trans are part of the trans community and will always be. Just as there is no necessity to medically transition to be trans, there's no necessity to keep on going once you start. The video mentions that medical procedures don't always work for everyone and that's absolutely valid. The one small exception, I will make (and I'll explain why) are detrans people that then go on to diss the entire trans community and accuse all trans people of being deluded or nefarious. I remember when I started transitioning, RUclips felt it needs to show me tons of videos of detrans people that were very hostile towards transition and started really messing with me and fuelling fears of me doing the wrong thing. I decided to just force RUclips to stop recommending them and I'm glad I did that. Transition literally saved my life and was the right thing for me. That said, if it's not the right thing for you, that doesn't make you bad, invalid, or not trans and your voice is needed in the community because that perspective is important. Just don't be a dick about it :)
i agree, i encountered numerous videos of people who detransition and then go into almost terf-like rhetoric, being transphobic and generally awful... i've seen one of two of them and they made me anxious to the point where the whole subject of detransition makes me anxious, because i associate it with such rhetoric!! they project their personal story onto others and it made me project my feelings of anxiety onto the whole subject of detransition, because i feel threatened and afraid to see transphobic and disrespectful rhetoric, undermining trans people and acting as if transition shouldn't be allowed because it failed THEM, ignoring thousands of people who are alive because they were allowed to transition!! but yeah i think that everyone has the right to do whatever they want with their bodies & social presentation and if detransitioning is something they want to do, i'm all for it!! i respect every reason behind detransitioning and support every person's journey to be truly themselves but i just wish the transphobic detransition stories didn't gain this much traction, esp considering the fact that they buy into conservative "tHeY aRe BrAiNWaShiNG oUr ChiLdReN to CHAnGe SeX" worldview and conservatives can use these videos as perfect "token detransitioned person failed by the TRA community" evidence!! like the subject is still so delicate and polarizing that having almost any opinion on it and expressing it publicly can affect the discourse! and that's a bit scary
@@christinaedwards5084 where is this magical place? I had to wait a year before getting my first hormone prescription after a year in therapy and 3 appointments with psychiatrists and endocrinologists. This is considering I'm an adult, went private, and paid out of pocket. Sure, probably there are some places that are more lenient but I'm yet to see anything beyond anecdotes that shows that this is the mass practice.
@@christinaedwards5084 overall according to whom? The data seems to go against your assertion. The amount of detransitioners hasn't massively increased, the waiting times for access to hormones haven't decreased and the gatekeeping is getting stronger not the other way around. This is why policy shouldn't be done by everyday people. Heresy is not a way to make decisions. Bottom surgery, based on current studies, is the procedure that people regret the least and I don't know a single person that actually regretted it yet your experience is different. The thing is, if I get all of my friends and they say they were happy with their transition and you get all of yours and they say they were unhappy, it will mean nothing because statistically we are irrelevant. This is why policymakers need to go off of averaged data, not moral panic. Transitioning is not nor will it ever be for everyone, however, it is for some people. There is no situation in which 100% of the people will be happy so, unfortunately, we need to balance the harm caused with the benefits gained and at least for now, things seem to show that there's no significant cause for concern. This hypothetical detransition wave is nowhere to be found in the data and unless we see it, I suggest we act with a bit more calm.
as someone who has socially transitioned many different ways throughout my life, thank you for this! gender is complex as heck and it can change over time. i feel like a lot of ppl forget that gender is influenced by social and emotional aspects; you arent born having a sense of gender, you develop it over time. some people feel one way their entire life, but that's not how it works for a lot of people. i think we should normalize gender not being a set in stone thing, it can change and thats ok!
I originally watched this video as a transman. I'm now rewatching a year into detransition. I greatly appreciated your "How to Know if You're Trans" video with the linked bullet point list and have shared it in my Trans & Detrans Discord. I may be going through a grieving process as part of understanding my new situation as a detrans woman, but it is still true that the vast majority of my time being a man was fulfilling and felt natural to me. The man I was for that 14 years never once regretted or felt bad about transition. I simply changed in a radical way internally. I followed my deepest instincts when I was transitioning, and have again followed those instincts detransitioning. While I'm grieving my losses, when I come out of this process on the other side, I will come to accept the bigger picture and the fact that I was very happy with my transition for a long time.
what a waste of life... instead of having kids and being a kind, wholesome mother, this brat is jerking thisway that way... trying to escape the realisation of the uselessness of selfish life
@@svetavinogradova4243Detransitioners didn't waste their life. Also, you're really creepy by mentioning that detrans women should just be baby makers & mothers. Your sexist attitude is part of what causes women to transition & then detransition.
i just discovered your channel today, and i’m loving all your videos! this one was excellent, i really appreciate the open-minded and non-judgmental approach you’ve taken - i think the trans community really needs that. thanks for making an awesome video :)
well. the thing is, when the general cis public asks, "what about detransition?" they are not usually asking about detrans experiences, they are asking if they should prevent transition. and similarly, "detransition is exceedingly rare" is not usually about detrans experiences either, it is answering that the times the general cis public should be involved in preventing transition are exceedingly rare. this is like, extremely annoying and hurtful to detrans people for all the reasons you went over. i agree with all that, you did a good job there. i appreciate the reminder to be empathetic and careful to wording for detrans people in my social spaces. silly to put all this effort in to influence most cis and then not care about people that, like you pointed out, overlap more with us than them. but the aforementioned effort really can't just be put aside... this is more serious than some small percentage of detransitioners being transphobic. it is that these experiences can be, ARE weaponized to further anti-transgender opinion and legislature, VERY often, and VERY effectively. when in any relatively public space, like RUclips, it cannot just be about information. it must address misinformation and misused information, in the beginning and repeatedly throughout and probably a couple other spots too. it's (not fully, but enough) like how video makers must talk about vaccine adverse events; recommending vaccination has to happen in the start of the video, not partway through, even when it's almost not related, because of the societal context. i think you did well enough for 'throughout'. the video, taken in its entirety, is good! i would particularly recommend it to people considering if transition or detransition is right for them, though i do notice a bit of emphasis on assuming the viewer is FTM and/or part of those negative mostly-online social groups that involve/mimic pro ED and selfharm, but that's fine, personally irrelevant information won't hurt them. but i also think your video, or at least future videos on similar topics, would benefit from being much clearer, much sooner, about the part which most affects opinion on public health policy. an opening line that includes "detransition is a bigger problem than people think - and i still support informed consent. stick around to find out why", would be quite effective. hm. i kind of went overboard explaining but.. oh well. thanks for the video dude
This video helped immensely thank you so much. I’m a trans man who isn’t out yet but I wanted to be absolutely positive before I come out, start HRT or get top surgery. It feels hard for me to know for sure a lot of times, and there’s all these what if’s. But this helped so much. I can’t know the future, and I just have to trust myself. If I end up changing my mind later, it doesn’t say anything about my sincereness now.
i am proud of my transition, but at the same time i'd not recommend it to other people. transition can be a heartbreaking process, it made me doubt everything i believed before, almost all the people i loved and trusted left me. so i had to learn to have faith in myself, so that i can live without the support of other people. i feel happy with the physical changes i got in my body, but, dammit, if i wanted to detransition, there wouldn't be a place i could go back to, i don't feel connected with those people anymore. so it's pretty insulting to hear that 'everyone will eventually detransition'. it feels like it comes from a place of privilege, that you are able to go back to life as it was before, and not everyone can or even wants to. my position is that life moves on, people who left me are best forgotten, and i should face life with all the strength that i got from this complicated process. if you detransition, don't try to go back, always move forward. we cannot and should not try to fix the past, there's no point in living with regrets.
i had to start blocking detran accounts because youtube wouldn't stop recommending me their videos and it just filled me with so much anxiety and really didn't help me figure out if transition was right for me. I appreciate this video though, as a nb person i've had to accept that most of the visible mainstream trans stories won't reflect my own and I can't obsess over my feelings until the end of time. So far I'm happy with my transition but that could change and it won't be the end of the world.
You do such a good job at putting things into words and providing nuance about these complicated things. I feel like I walked away from this video feeling less confused and more calm about how I wanna approach gender
I'm so happy to hear it! This was something I struggled with for so long and I wanted to make the kind of video that my younger self needed to see. Wishing you luck in finding a gender identity/presentation that works for you 😊
i was in ED treatment right at the beginning of my transition and that therapy really really helped a lot with my dysphoria, even though it was not centered around gender identity at all. Also finding other trans women musicians especially in punk and hardcore did a LOT for accepting myself too and coming into being comfortable with things about myself that used to give me dysphoria. This is a really thoughtful essay and I like all the points you hit. Nice channel, Arthur! Subscribed!
Yeah, I'm mtf and dated a gay cis woman for a few months who had learned to embrace her masculine characteristics. She was tall (taller than me even), had a high hairline, but dressed in a mix between masculine and feminine. I thought she was beautiful though, and she owned the hell out of it. She had confidence in herself and actually previously socially transitioned to male in high school but determined it wasn't right for her. I guess she was a detransitioner in a way. Unfortunately things didn't work out between us, but meeting her gave me a lot more confidence in myself and helped me to get over insecurities in my appearance and my voice. She encouraged me to join a church choir in my batural baritone range, and I'm still in that choir months after I last saw her. Sometimes, dysphoria can be managed without drastic intervention.
I'm so grateful to have stumbled across this video, Arthur! You really called out some of my internalized transphobia and I really needed this nuanced compassionate reality check. Really an astute perspective. Thank you!
i’m not trans but i am a lesbian and going to begin working for a lgbt mental health charity in a few months time and this video was so interesting and eloquent, really gave me a lot to think about and consider! thank you
I think looking into the cause of my dysphoria helped me to transition more healthily than I otherwise would have, adopting a principle of minimal intervention for the most benefit, and the the principle of decreasing returns on investment. I find Ray Blanchard's research very illuminating to why I'm gender dysphoric. I'm autogynephilic and this sort of led to me idealizing femininity and not wanting to exist as a man. I did notice that a good deal of my dysphoria came from online truscum communities and being undatisfied with being trans (wanting to be a cis woman). I was forced to be honest with myself and leave those communities. It helped so much but not all my dysphoria went away which is why I decided to start HRT and social transition. Both have helped so so much over the last year and a half and I'm far happier and no longwr suicidally depressed. But I feel I'm afforded a much more serious perspective about the surgeries I want to do and the risk and financial investment required. If I can live the rest of my life as a trans woman with a penis and have only mild dysphoria about my parts, maybe that's best. Again, minimal intervention for maximum benefit, and is it worth is to spend thousands of dollars and weeks of recovery time and maybe never have sensation down there again to reduce an insecurity I could probably live with (and possibly be insecure about having a neovagina instead of a vagina)? No. I've been on a good deal of dates with bisexual and lesbian cis women and been intimate with one bisexual woman. I still get insecure over dating a lot but I don't necessarily think that's because I'm trans. I think I'd be in this boat even if I hadn't transitioned. But it's worth bearing in mind: are you willing to be that vulnerable and reduce your dating pool that much? For some, it isn't worth it. I think people need to approach dysphoria with the idea that not every insecurity is gender dysphoria which is incurable. Some of it can be worked through. Might I wake up one day 10 years from now and want to go back to living as a guy? Maybe, and I accept that. I still wake up sometimes feeling like I'm a man in a weird position. Transition so far has allowed me to feel freer and to give myself the tools I needed to dig myself out of the worst suicidal depression I've had.
This is an excellent video. Thank you for speaking thoughtfully and fairly about this issue. Detrans people's experiences do not take away any legitimacy from trans people who benefitted from transition. It's just helpful to be open and honest about both outcomes as real possibilities, and the importance of checking on yourself as you go into this and working through trauma at any stage of your journey. The marriage analogy was particularly apt. Thank you
I am a trans man with ocd and my current theme is around detransition and I’m part way through treatment and I’m working on accepting doubt and uncertainty. I probably wouldn’t have been able to watch this video a month ago without completely spiraling into compulsions and anxiety but I’m so glad that I could watch this video. On a meta level my ocd was/is attached to my beliefs and understandings around what detransition means and why it happens. My understanding of detransition was lackluster at best and just terrifying to me. This video really took some of the fear out of the concept and let me accept the gray areas even though it’s scary to me. Thank you so much! Knowing you have ocd as well helped me decide to comment :)
You sound exactly like me two years ago! Now that this video is gaining traction, I find myself wondering if I can produce other similarly well-researched content but honestly the only reason I know so much about detransition is because of my OCD (ie, my compulsive researching). It took many months and a lot of work, but now those worries and spirals are just a quiet memory. I might even make a video about this sometime, but what surprised me was how slowly and peacefully the obsession faded away. I thought I would Find the Answer ™️ or know perfectly when I did my first T shot I would never detransition. Instead, as my mental health got better and my transition became so evidently a joyous, healthy experience, the worries about detransition just stopped being so seductive. I would have that same impulse "what if you check out detrans Twitter?" but then I just ... wouldn't care. If I do detransition one day, I feel confident I would think back fondly on my time spent transitioning and what more can one ask for? And I've been this way, really content in my transition and with my old OCD habits muted, for nearly a year now. And I have faith you will achieve this peace one day too 😊
THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!!! SO MUCH!!! i identified as nonbinary for 2-3 years since i was like, 12, and now i started college and now realised i feel more uncomfortable with it. I was like- was i faking it this whole time?? am i betraying trans people?? then it turned into self-deprecation that i had to be a woman or else i'm betraying feminism- i felt so lost and scared, because i'm still experiencing dysphoria, or at least something very similar to it, but i'm uncomfortable with being perceived as neutral. Your video essay really, really validated my struggles and now i know that theres no two distinct categories of "cis" and "trans". I was afraid to stop considering myself trans (i didnt transition much, i only told my close friends and some people) bc it would make trans people feel less safe with me. I still dont feel like a woman, and feel disconnected from womanhood, but i also dont want to transition into other genders, at least for now. For now i'll just call myself female or afab bc thats what i am for sure lol! Thank you for making this video and expanding many peoples view
i usually dont leave comments but i just wanted to say that this is exactly the video i needed at this time. I'm at the very beginning stages of my transition and suddenly having to start dealing not only my own doubts and insecurities but my family's has been very overwhelming. The idea of detransitioners has always been a source of anxiety for me, as i kept fearing that i might end up regretting my transition, and dealing with that insecurity in a productive way on my own was proving quite difficult. I recently watched a video by mia mulder where she says that the possibility of detransition was comforting for her when she was just starting because that meant she could go back whenever she wanted to, so i had been trying to shift my way on thinking to that as well. the idea that transition can be a fluid thing and that detransitioning doesn't mean you were/are any less trans has made me feel so much more comfortable going for the tings i want without this overwhelming fear of regret. you just put all my thoughts on it into words and provided a way forward from here, so thank you so much. i just realized my comment was very "me" centric so i ought to mention that a trans person speaking up for detrans people and starting to shift the narrative to highlight their stories too is invaluable, so thank you for that as well.
Oh my god, incredible video!! I was putting off watching it even though it had been in my recommended for a while because I was terrified I'd come out of it questioning myself, or wanting to detransition (or more accurately, not finish transitioning), but I'm SO glad I watched it. I feel more confident in my decision and more secure than ever before. Not because I'm now SURE that I'll never detransition, but because I didn't know there was a possibility that I might detransition and still have a future ahead of me, and still be able to find a place for myself and find happiness in wherever my gender identity ends up. I'm coming out of this video with the realization that, no matter what, there is a positive future out there for me. Thank you
If I was born in the current space I think there is a good chance I would have transitioned and detrasitioned in my early teens and 20s. I saw feminity as a weakness and a negative thing for so long. I also know someone who transitioned almost 20 years ago now (who I knew back then). I think need to explore our personal qualms with our relationship to our gender/sex without the need to put that label on it. It was that same trans person who made me feel comfortable with my own gender. I didn't have to let feminine define every attribute about me, I can pick what parts of me are feminine and what parts are not.
38:25 agree with being accepting detranspeople, and not saying the "I'm cool with" phrase, but i don't think they are the same thing. Transphobia is hurtful and harmful. Making being gay your whole personality, trans people being showy, isn't harmful and hurtful. Don't think it's the same. But your point still stands. Great thought out, introspective, empathetic, understanding video👏
It's such a shame that we can't have more nuanced conversations about this. In a way, I detransitioned- questioned my gender at 16, went back in the closet at 17 because I thought i had to be manly mcmannerson to be a trans man- yet over time, I still had gender feels and came out as non binary at 21 then as a trans man at 23. Even though I'm not a woman, I don't regret not transitioning as a teen. Transitioning as an adult meant I had money and independence I couldn't have had as a teen, plus I had therapists who, even with their lack of experience with LGBT people, totally supported me transitioning and didn't see me as a woman. Gender is so messy and I still have some insecurities that took time and self reflection to heal that my medical transition couldn't fix. Even if I woke up one day and didn't want to live as a man anymore, I'd still love my body and what T and surgery has done for me and what more could anyone ask for?
I totally relate to this! I also questioned my gender and then decided not to transition at 16 and feel like the years I spent thereafter living as a woman were invaluable and that transitioning as an adult made everything go way smoother for me. Transition wasn't right for me then, but is right for me now. And so of course it makes sense to me that others might experience this but flipped (find transition helped but then didn't and go on to detransition)
@@arthur_rockwell yeah, I don't really think of it as detransitioning but I just can't picture my life if I hadn't had the experiences I had during that in between time. I went to college, traveled, fell in love, made friends, and while there were hard times, I also feel like I'm a better man with less of a tendency towards toxic masculinity because of them.
im questioning transition right now with the only person in my life i can really talk to about this being my cis therapist. it sucks because i was hesitant to talk about doubts and nuances of my identity with her because of a fear of being denied medical transition in the future. its a very slow process where i live especially before 18 and ive felt like i need to be cautious or i will have to transition later in life and have a less "stealth" (and therefore acceptable because of the place im in) experience. i think the best thing i can do is be open with her to prevent transition regret :) i know this will make me a less acceptable trans person, but it may be what it best and truest to me. im quite comfortable in my own perception of myself when i am able to dress as i like and when im binding (which is a whole other logistical issue oml binding takes a toll on me. so top surgery? potentially?). its other people that often make me uncomfortable. it gives me comfort that one day i will likely be able to find a circle that makes me feel comfortable. i would like to have my own personal nirvana free from gender, because i know i will never live to see gender abolition. this is exactly what queer people have always done. still, i think sometimes if i could handle existing in my current space as a rebellion it might make a larger impact for trans and gnc people in the future. i know that if gender is a construct so is transness and my own identity. that makes me much more comfortable in my gender not existing in a vacuum as i thought it was meant to. im curious to see myself approach the age where cis boys are moreso referred to as "men". im 13 and feel very comfortable with "boy", but my relationship with "man" is quite fluid. are most 13 year old cis boys and binary trans guys comfortable with "man"? i try to compare it to woman and girl as im afab, and find i was never comfortable with woman. but im trans, so of course not. im also involved with feminism. my relationship with oppression is unique. i blast bikini kill songs with the word "girl" but then look at a million propositions for the fourth wave of feminism and gender abolition happening together. its a dream but i feel like im contradicting and disrespecting work that has already been done. im scared of terfs and i dont really understand them. i want to be involved in feminism and gender abolition and i want to talk to cis women about it. it's difficult to explain myself to any cis person. its still hard for me to accept that i most likely wont be able to be all that close with my parents. i still see something very boyish when i look in the mirror. its the same boy i saw when i couldnt use that word a couple years ago pushing my chest down and standing up tall. i wish i could have the confidence in myself to be the acceptable, binary trans person that i could explain to others, but i dont think i have that kind of certainty. i think trans healthcare needs to be less binary on the road to gender abolition. thank you so much for making these videos. i cant show an adequate level of gratitude for making this space. i feel less alone. youre such a role model to me being a transmasc in academia with all of these ideas about these struggles that ive experienced. i hope to do what you do some day.
This is so refreshing. I feel like discourse on gender often ends up being so divisive and performative- people saying things only to back up their group and not thinking about things based on the evidence or listening to other experiences/evidence. I feel like this video really comes from a good place and a place of learning and educating, not trying to push one narrative dogmatically. You brought up some things I had thought of but don't say outwardly, and other things I hadn't thought of. It would be so good if people felt able to talk about gender and people's decisions in life in a truly neutral and evidence-based way. Love the video man.
Through this video, I’ve finally come to understand why some people go by he/him despite identifying as a lesbian or the endless amount of different ways of identifying as non-binary/trans masc but still feeling like they belong in the lesbian community. I learned a bunch of other stuff too, this video was extremely insightful, but I’ve finally come to be more empathetic when it comes to understanding non-binary or he/him lesbians. Thank you, from a cis girl, for lending the nuance and complexity this topic deserves, and for being so open and understanding towards cis people as discussions around gender tend to be divisive for both sides (though trans people have more reasons to be hurt and closed off). I’m glad the internet exists so that people can learn from channels like yours. I know I’ll definitely be using this video if my friends or family have trouble understanding these topics.
I feel really lucky to have found good communities online and not really see a lot of negative unproductive discourse about transness/detransition. I also feel like as a non-binary person I'm glad I didn't just jump into medical transition right when I started questioning my gender. Transitioning and de transitioning both count as changing your body/pronouns/presentation etc to better align with your identity. That is something we should, as a supposedly open minded community, try to be supportive of whatever that looks like for someone.
You talked a lot about transitioning in terms of bodies but you didn't bring up people's internal sense of their gender identity as much. I'm wondering if many detransitioners experience the sense that their actual gender identity has changed? (Not saying that this is something that does not or cannot happen regardless of transition status.) Anyway, thanks so much for this super informative video! It really helped me as a non binary person who has never transitioned who has always felt confused and challenged by this topic.
As someone who started testosterone after getting out of my depression (although I still have bad anxiety), this video was actually very validating :) Also, I'm glad you clarified the 1% thing, I really had to idea and it's incredibly important.
This is very informative! You have a great teaching style that's full of empathy. I'm a cis women but have worked in mental health clinics who serve LGBTQ+ communities. I would share this video with co-workers to help them better understand this topic.
New viewer here. This is the most nuanced take on detransition I've come across on this website. Thank you so much! I have to admit I tend to go into the discourse of detransitioning in a defensive mode from the get-go because there is so much transphobia in all the other spaces where I've seen it addressed. The only point I would challenge is the one for having empathy for detransitioner who are now backing transphobic policies and making it harder for trans people to...well...live. In my mind, it would be a similar comparison to someone getting cancer and everyone around them encouraging them to get treatment that works most of the time and because it didn't work for them now they want to block other cancer patients from getting care. *I'm not comparing transness = cancer. I am saying dysphoria, depression, etc = cancer in this less than perfect metaphor Great video! SUBBED!
Aw thank you for this kind comment! The question about empathy for transphobic detransitioners is a hard one. I suppose what I mean is I often see trans people more quick to attack those detransitioners (say Kira Bell) than the cishet people who really hold the power (her lawyers etc.). And that we can disagree with the policies the detransitioners support while also holding empathy for them
What a well put together video. So glad that this conversation is starting to be had in good faith and with empathy. (And from a RUclips community perspective, such a relief that Blair White et al do not have the sole ownership of discourse on this topic.)
Than you ❤️ I’m not trans myself, but I think watching your video has made me understand so much more about the complexities of human gender experience…
I appreciate this video a lot, there’s often black and white thinking surrounding detransition. That having detransitioned you can only be truly a mistaken cis person. I haven’t transitioned yet and i’m not sure to what extent I will. I have only came out to some people and changed my name and pronouns with some people. I am constantly plagued with doubts about my identity because I don’t want to be a cis man. The more I reflect on this the more I understand my own beliefs affect how i see myself, as a person more than say a man or a woman or a nonbinary person. But because the world is very binary and likes to split the world between men and women, I find I cannot exist in a completely authentic way as simply a person who enjoys looking semi masculine. People will always try to label me as a woman, a butch lesbian, a trans man, etc. When really i would be happiest going by my chosen name and pronouns, dressing how I want and just simply being a person outwith gender. Since people won’t perceive me this way it makes it hard to decide how i should go on with life, would transition be better or not? It is complicated. But anyway, I really appreciate you talking about this
I feel like a lot of the conflation between detransitioning and TERFs occurs due to two things. One is that TERFs have incorporated the stories of detransitioners so crucially into their arguments that it makes attempting to discuss the topic almost impossible in online forums due to black-and-white thinking, or that it can be seen as a TERF dogwhistle. The second is that detransitioning circles tend to tolerate transphobia from their members because everyone broadly agrees that feelings about once being trans and transitioning should be respected, or they agree with some/all of it themselves. The issue arises when feelings and opinions start to leak beyond the bounds of self-expression and begin to shape into opinions on how *other* people should be living. Even without the latter half happening, the mere tolerating of transphobia has unfortunately tended to help conflate the topic of detrans to TERFs. Case in point: I followed a twitter account where detransitioners could submit their own life stories, because I had seen basically nothing about the subject online, and this seemed like a good starting point. The people running it made a post about how they did not curate the submissions for transphobia because they didn't feel comfortable being the arbiter of the detrans experience. A little while later, I'm finding myself blocked by tons of accounts I've never interacted with before - it drove me fucking bonkers. It turned out, that twitter account was added to one of the bigger anti-trans blocklists on twitter, and thus anyone following it also got hit too. It made me really sad that the account got so quickly lumped in with TERFs because there were many personal accounts on there who did not regret their transition, or who discussed wrestling with detransitioning because they knew how black-and-white the general opinion on detransitioners is in the found family they'd created. It's already very difficult to access resources or information on detransitioning that hadn't been tainted by TERFs pushing an agenda, so to see a relatively neutral account get hit really pained me.
Thank you so much for making this video!! You did a great job explaining everything in detail too. I am trans myself and I really hate it when trans people talk about detrans and then just end up attacking them and/or undermining their experience. I can absolutely see how detrans people are attracted to the gender critical movement, especially when we as a community dont treat them with empathy. I have strongly felt now for a while that we need to bridge the gap between the trans and detrans communities and it means so much to me that you made a video that helps with exactly that. I really hope more people in the community take this approach in the future!
That's exactly what I've been thinking about. I'm new to LGBTIQ+ community as I just recently admitted to myself that I'm a lesbian. Anyway I want to support everyone in community and seeing how many lesbian and bisexual girls claim themselves gender critical makes me sooo upset. Right now I'm figuring things out. I follow some trans people on RUclips and watch stories from detransitioners, too. Yet quite a lot of them state gender critical ideas as they were badly treated be T community after starting detransitioning. So, I'm very delightful to see trans people talking about real statistic and caring about detrans ones. It gives me hope.
Lots of detrans people openly and willingly lend their voices and platform for "gender critical" (let's call it what it is transphobia) views. There is little to no push back by the detrans group for these views and platforming and you want trans people to just bridge the gap? Even someone recommended by this channel "Issa Ismail" made a video where the top comments were openly transphobic nonsense that she didn't push back against, especially when she want responding to other comments. When a platform becomes a tool for your oppressors to weaponise against you, it is the duty of the person to whom that platform belongs to, to examine why that is happening. No wonder detrans people are attacked, they're so willing to collaborate with transphobes.
Thank you for this video. I'm a non binary neurodivergent person and am definitely one of those people struggling with trauma, body image issues and stuff like that. Your video helped me to go from "I can only pursue X, Y and Z if I'm 100% sure I'm trans" to "I need to listen to what will be most likely to make me happy and healthy" Also I really think It's such a shame detransitioned people get so much hate, from the queer community and queerphobes alike. We really need to do a better job to not alienate people that have already been through enough bullshit.
i just recently accepted myself as nb (I'm in my late twenties), and a huge part of me taking so long was the Fear of medical transition, the restrictions it would impose on me, and from that, the fear of not being "trans" enough, of being one of those that would give up half way through, a "tender". i genuinely believe that if I had come out earlier, I would've been a detransitioner by now. The amount of times I explained to people my gender troubles and their answer was "if you're serious about it, just go on HRT". I also love that you talk about the murky waters of dysphoria and dysmorphia, taking the time to detangle those might be hard, but so important I think its time we change the way we talk these topics.
Just started watching, adding to my watch list, loving what I've seen after five minutes. I'm not trans but have trans acquaintances. They are awesome people and I just want to support them no matter what. I think the trans movement is so eager to prove that they are legitimate that they are suppressing stories like yours which certainly happen. I think it's OK to acknowledge that some people will live happier, better lives as trans people, some people will start their journey before realising it was not for them (and if they never do, they'll never know) and others will just make outright mistakes. I think that the only thing that matters is that we give these people a safe environment to do that and not have to deal with any bullshit. If you feel supported by your friends and the world at large, the whole experience should be entirely positive, regardless of whether you transition and live happily ever after or you transition and detransition. Anyway, thanks to everyone who read this comment, hope you're doing well :)
When I hear “detransition” I think of this one lady who is a hardcore terf who claims she only transitioned to escape sexism (a gender critical terf talking point) . She does that whole “stolen daughter” “just a lesbian” bs too. I do hope people understand that people should feel free to explore their gender expression or their going to another gender identity that wasn’t what they were assigned at birth.
wow, i almost never comment on videos, but this is seriously amazing!! really appreciate the fresh perspective on a rarely talked about trans related topic! definitely deserves to blow up, hope this comment helps the algorithm do its thing.
Aww thank you!! I still haven't figured out the youtube algorithm lolol (had a prosthetic video randomly blow up after a couple weeks of being uploaded 🤷♂️) but I sure hope the same
this reminded me of a quote that i had written in my journal a few years ago, “gender is like a color, it is on a spectrum. you cannot quantify a color. it may look different next to other colors but it is still the same isolated no matter the environment” i don’t necessarily agree with everything in this now, i think that gender, like the self, is ever changing but it comforted me at the time so it might help someone else :)
this is the conclusion I came to at 18 when starting my transition after watching several detrans videos. all I knew for sure then was that I wouldn't regret it. I now identify as the example lesbian from the beginning of your video. everyone should watch this before transitioning
all I will say is carefully parsing detrans content can be helpful in deciding whether or not to transition, though you are right that it can be detrimental
Thank you for talking about this in depth and citing your sources where appropriate. I am all in favor of anything that lets people have a more supportive environment in which to explore their gender and make the decision that’s right for them, regardless of what that decision might be. The “never trans to begin with” discourse is also very harmful. I know several trans people who had temporarily detransitioned but then retransitioned several years later, and if they’d been convinced that they were “never trans” then they’d almost certainly just be miserable now. My own social transition has been more of a random stumble than a straight-line path, and while my medical transition was absolutely the right thing for me the social side of things has been way more difficult to pin down.
I've had a lot of complex feelings around my gender and have been very scared of detransitioning, enough that I had a full mental breakdown when I got my first appointment at the gender clinic. I think this is why it's important that you go through a process and talk to a gender therapist. Of course you could just lie if you really want to, but for me actually talking about my doubt rather than pushing it away out of fear has helped me understand myself much better. I thought I was nb years ago when first thinking about gender, then thought I was a trans guy for a little while, and now I've actually come back to identifying as enby and I feel better then I ever have.
this video was amazing to watch. in the middle of it, i was feeling super weird and bad for some reason and i guess i just never wanted detransition to be something that i feel i need to do (i still don't think i need to do it) but then i watched to the end and your last few points helped me out a lot. of course, I think that suing the NHS is a very bad thing to do but i understand the thought process a bit more now. i also am less worried about whether i'll detransition or not because i've realised that it doesn't matter a whole lot because gender isn't the only thing in life and isn't actually that important so i should just do what feels right instead of worrying about what box I'm falling into because doing that, in the past, has made me super unhappy. i think that i will continue to identify as non-binary but then again that is a very broad spectrum so i don't feel restricted by it at all.
I'm so glad the algorithm showed me your video in the suggestions! Detransitioning is so much more nuanced than the discourse leads one to believe, but you brought up so many relevant points. I just wish governments would fund more research into trans questions rather than tighten trans healthcare budgets whenever trans issues pop up into the mainstream and become heavily politicized.
great video!! loved the marriage analogy :D personally i feel like sometimes the transition OR detransition as the only 2 ways of labeling people's gender experience medically or socially can make the discussion of things harder. Mostly because some experiences are inherently hard to categorize between the 2, and some people may feel pushed to identify their experience with one or the other without being super comfy. Same with the you are either trans or cis (or nb since some consider it different than being trans). Like, labels are amazing! they can be very useful and very important to people! that's why they exist afterall. But these labels are made for very subjective nonconcrete concepts, that can mean different things to different people and can be hard for some to wrap their heads around enough to be comfortable with using them. Like, i believe a great number of people that are weary of detransitioners and their stories, are only so because transitioning is put in opposite of transitioning. They may understand that gender can be fluid and change over time, and what feels right and comfortable now might not later, and all of that is completely natural and ok, but still feel icky because it feels like a "us vs them" situation. Like idk what i would be??? I came out as a trans man many years ago, and did get hrt for around 5 years, during those years at first i wanted top surgery and was very sure about it, but as my chest reduced with the fat redistribution, i felt i didn't needed it so i didn't end up getting it (i was on a super long waiting list of like 4 years but ended up saying no thank you!). Then last year i stopped testosterone, because i felt i may not need it anymore and wanted to see how i would feel without it. I sorta missed my periods in a way. I didn't identify as a woman, i just wanted to see how i felt. I ended up feeling great! i love the permanent effects testosterone had on me, and i can still pass as a man which makes me happy! but sadly my chest dysphoria came back, because my chest became as big as it originally was before hrt and is quite noticeable. So now i am saving up for top surgery, and hoping to get it in the next few years. I also found out this year that i do not identify as much as a man anymore, i feel more in the trans masculine side of non binary, man-adjacent is how i like to explain it. So does this make me a detransitioner?? I changed labels, but i do not feel "less trans", nor do i feel like i am not trans anymore. I just changed labels, and i tried something else for my body. It's confusing and not helpful for me honestly to think about it haha and i feel like maybe a lot of people feel similar, even if they "go back to being cis". Is just label changes, all of it. And trying new things for your body to improve your quality of life hopefully. anyway sorry for the rambling xDDD some concepts are just hard for my brain to wrap itself around. Not that i necessarily need to apply a label to my experience anyway. But i do feel like that would mess with studies and such :P people like me. Like those studies about sexuality, some people just don't feel strongly with any one label, and rather not take any or take some that are just "close" even if it is not the same as what the study parameters meant those to signify. Hard to study people!
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I just detransitioned, and explaining it as a divorce is such a good metaphor, I'm going to use it with everyone. Thank you so much
I'm so glad to hear it!! Explaining and justifying your choices to people is so often just as hard as coming to term with what you want personally. I hope your detransition goes excellently ☺️
@@arthur_rockwell I was questioning my gender last year and wondering if I should detransition (didn’t end up doing it) and when I was talking to my dad, who got divorced two years ago, he made that comparison too. So, divorcees and their trans kids concur!
Wait it's a choice?
@@revimfadli4666 Having gender dysphoria or not being content with your gender is not a choice since it's an emotional state (you can't talk yourself out of it). Transitioning is technically a choice, since you have to take direct action to do it, but a lot of people wouldn't even call it a choice since their life would be just plain miserable without it.
@@DeeegenerateThat's a good explanation.
I am trans myself. In therapy they told me. In Law you can choose to be a person male or female.
There is nothing else.
We can offer that.
If I don't want to be listed as a man, then you are not trans at all. Then I would have another disorder but not the trans-disorder.
It is a sociological social order.
I don't fit into one category or the other.
I detransitioned for about 4 years before retransitioning. I was young and moved across the world and didn’t want to explain myself constantly. It turned into trying to explain away my previous transition as a weird phase and internalized misogyny. I came out again because I realized that it was a performance. I was playing into it because other people liked me more as a woman. I’m so glad that I came out as nonbinary and started taking testosterone
I did that too! I detransed for around a year and a half and fell into TERF circles trying to explain away my transness. After I turned 18 and couldn't handle the woman moding anymore I started transitioning as a binary trans male, and I've been on T over a year now :)
As a detrans person, I want to say that this is probably the most nuanced and well thought-out video I have seen on the subject. I don't personally view my transition as a negative thing. I also think that my dysphoria came from mental illness, trauma, internalized homophobia, and internalized misogyny. My biggest concern with detransitioning has been "will I be alienated again?". When I came out as trans, I lost my family. If I come out as detrans, I might lose my chosen family. It's insane to me that we (the LGBTQ community) exile someone for detransitioning. Gender and sexuality are complex and open to change throughout our lives
I'm really happy to hear it! I hope your detransition goes smoothly and you still feel a part of your/our community
I mean... people remain people. I feel like most people in the LGBTQ community don't actually deconstructed gender but to attack heteronormativity and pull themselves up. For example I have friends who say gender is fluid and a social construct but still call fem gay men and bottoms "girls" and treat them as a masc cishet chad would treat a woman. That doesn't look like deconstructed gender power dynamics
@Louis Kingsta I think the reason that has some issues for people is because "Why do people transition" becomes "How can we stop them from transitioning" really quickly in some areas. Or even that people will start gate keeping and over analyzing someone if they appear to not fit all the "criteria" for being trans. Fact of the matter is that gender is fluid and might change for some people.
I think some people may never know they're NOT trans if they don't start presenting and identifying as a different gender. That doesn't necessarily mean that they should start medically transitioning too but by changing things up and maybe with some therapy, it can help people think things through. I don't think someone temporarily identifying as a different gender is a bad thing, because people should be allowed to experiment with their gender before making concrete decisions.
Holy fuck you bunch of people are insane
@@pigslayer703 Why say that? We're having a conversation, not insulting each other.
i'm a binary trans guy, little doubt about it, and this video alleviates my underlying worries about becoming a detransitioner a lot more than those that tell me it's very unlikely. i think this understanding of detransition is more empathetic and open-minded when it comes to questioning gender. it personally feels a lot truer to the way i came to understand my gender: not as an a-ha moment but a period of continuous questioning, slow acclimation to my new identity, and realization of how much comfort my current identity brings me. super well-presented essay, great job
I already posted in a gendering questioning video that it sometimes feel really freeing to read and hear about a gender identity you don't feel alined with and don't personally relate with because it helps you to also understand and be content with your own identity.
I agree, there hasn’t been an a-ha moment for me either. Just a slow realization
OP is FtM, for anyone mistakenly taking them as MtF detransitioner
The video has way too much focus on afabs for anything else to be the case
i think the knee jerk reaction to discount stories of ppl detransitioning is, at least in part, due to the fact that transphobes co opt the language in order to push transphobic ideas, such as not supporting gender affirming care, or social transition. but also, in the more leftist and progressive spaces i’m in, it’s becoming more and more accepted that identity is fluid, and people should be free to explore themselves and then decide something isn’t for them, if they choose. as long as someone doesn’t use their experience as a way to invalidate others, there’s no harm caused.
So true! A lot of transphobes will point to an instance of a person detransitioning and go, “See?! This person regrets doing it, which must mean that every trans person is in denial and just lying to themselves!”
It’s weird, because a lot of those who have detransitioned almost NEVER make a 180 and suddenly see being trans as invalid; if they did, they wouldn’t have transitioned in the first place. It’s a narrative that’s definitely used by cis people who don’t know what they’re talking about.
@@gregjayonnaise8314 In addition, it's ignoring the extreme pressure that society exerts on the individual. There's a reason that LGBT youth have a higher suicide rate. It's not because they are LGBT. It's because their parents, their friends, their relatives, their co-workers, the person who shares the same bus... all of these people may be pushing, either explicitly or implicitly the idea that being LGBT is perverse. People can internalize these ideas.
It's not even LGBT. It can also be observed in other minority populations. For example, in the US, the ideal beauty is white European. You can see this in movies especially. Many of the more popular black actresses are those who have more European style looks. For example a Halle Berry or a Zendaya are prime examples. They are beautiful but there are other styles of beauty. A rose may be beautiful but that doesn't mean that a oak tree lacks beauty. Both are beautiful and should be appreciated.
So it's difficult to parse out the nuance and focus on the individual attributes. The emotionally charged rhetoric has a way of muddling the situation rather than clarifying the situation. The inability of a substantial population of humanity to consider alternative view points and handle unknowns or reality means that a lot of people will suffer and may die. See the increased suicide rate for LGBT youth as just one form of human sacrifice that the anti-LGBT crowd fosters.
I'm not really sure how to deal with the phobes of society because they are such conservative reactionaries. Unfortunately, our society continues to operate on the assumption that this kind of hysterical conservative reactionary individual is worthy of respect or consideration. Until the majority of society stops catering to the conservatives primitive nonsense, a lot of people are going to continue to suffer and new victims and new victim groups will be created. After all, life is about change and conservatives cannot handle change.
the issue is that a lot of trans teens, when they're talking to their parents about getting medical treatment, have to argue something that runs very contrary to detrans experiences
if i'm right, the "common" narrative arthur in the video talks about is: "detrans people were definitely happy with transition for a long time, but no longer think it's the best path forward for them", which is absolutely valid, i'm not saying otherwise. a common transphobic narrative, though, is "trans people are just trying to hop onto a trend, and they'll like it for a bit, before realizing how big of a mistake that it was". in the mind of a transphobic parent in particular, the former narrative is the same as the latter
if a trans kid who's seeking medical transition, is trying to work it out with their (likely transphobic) parents, saying "detrans people exist and are more common than the studies cited, but they enjoyed it while they can and would probably not be alive if they didn't" would not work. transphobic people see transitioning as catastration, and any possibility that's more than a one in a million case is enough for them to go like "you're doing this for a trend, wait until you're 21" and then that child doesn't get medical treatment until they're financially independent
so they have to argue the common narrative, the "detrans people exist but they usually do for money or support reasons" narrative, even if it's objectively wrong, even if it hurts detrans people because it's the only way of getting medical care for them
the ultimate cause of this problem is transphobia, not detrans people, of course
Part of what I hope is that people are comfortable enough with the fluidity of gender that people feel free to experiment with their presentation and it’s not a big fusss
That's exactly my reaction too. All the detransitioned people I have watched talked at some point of "being an abomination to God" and sinning, etc. Or advocate for conversion therapy. And the comments are full of transphobes
As a 31 year old cis lady watching this video, I really feel like I'm spying on a community that isn't mine, but on the other hand it gives me so much insight into the potential struggles of the people around me. I want to keep learning.
Thank you for the education 😊
I really appreciate you making this video. My trans fear of detransitioning came true and my detrans fear of transitioning again also came true. I think talking about these things and being honest with each other is incredibly important.
In 8th grade (2012-2013) I began doing something similar to homeschooling and sometime after that, I saw one of Alex Bertie's videos and I realized that I felt the same way. I eventually came out to my parents. It didn't go well.
For the next few years I was too afraid to leave the house, except for rare occasions, because I didn't want anyone to find out. I only had online friends and I was stealth with most of them. I had a gender therapist but I was too afraid to talk to her openly because I needed my letter for T. I was afraid to talk to other trans people because I wasn't sure if certain feelings I had were "normal" and I didn't want to be called a trender. Basically, I was completely alone.
I think all of my doubt, severe isolation, pressure to be the "right kind of trans", etc. accumulated over the years and my senior year, a few months after I started T and went back off, I finally told myself "I want to be normal and have friends. I was wrong. I'm not trans." I never even had to tell my parents. They were just immediately very on board. I made a ton of friends, dated, went on wild adventures, etc. and unfortunately still was not a healthy person. I also had "I don't think I'm cis. Oh god." thoughts and things along those lines which got worse over time. I didn't tell anyone that I ever identified as trans, not even my trans friend who passed a few years ago. I was too ashamed.
During the course of the pandemic I've left a very bad relationship and cut off all of those unhealthy friendships that I made. I started making a lot of progress in therapy but I've been very isolated. I was put on new meds and all of a sudden the once passing "I think I am trans" thoughts intensified. Then, I had a dream that someone directed me to the men's restroom and called me "sir" and I woke up thinking "Crap. I don't think I can avoid it anymore."
I finally talked to some more trans people, read other people's stories, and realized I wasn't alone in anything that I felt. There was always someone else who felt similarly. I think a lot of my issue has always been my own insecurity. Especially with wanting people to like me. I also think I'm more comfortable being treated like a woman socially even though I feel like a man, want to be seen as a man, and feel like I should physically be a cis man.
It doesn't make total sense but I think the main reason for that is being afraid that people will Know. I'll "do being a man wrong" and they'll find out I'm not "normal" and I will be humiliated. It was easier for me to figure out how to be a girl that people liked. Someone people wanted. Being trans makes avoiding my fear of rejection very hard lol. My parents aren't great about it again and some other people haven't been either.
When I think about it now, if people were totally cool with trans people AND people who have detransitioned, I'm pretty sure I personally never would have detransitioned. I'm trying to just be me now and I think EMDR with my new therapist is helping some already. I'm starting T again next month. I want to be me AND live my life this time. Before, those seemed like 2 totally separate options. Really hoping that I'll be ready to look for friends soon.
And how are you now after 1 year on t?
Wow those studies are pretty bad.. it's upsetting that we can't just face reality.. gender, identity, dysphoria, these are all complicated things. We should be able to admit that. Can we just admit that there are multiple causes of dysphoria and wanting to transition? And therefore multiple ways that it could be treated? That doesn't invalidate that being trans is a real thing.. I feel like we're all expected to only accept One True Way to be trans.
I totally agree! I think especially when you're taking an action like transition that's so stigmatized it's tempting to try and make everything black and white (like people, my former self included, who buy into the hazy trans brain studies). We shouldn't need to perfectly explain why some people are trans or why some people detransition to accept that transition makes many people quite happy! Some things, especially gender, are just quite complex
this is such a great comment
I think it would be easier to admit if 1. Transphobes didn't run the world to ruin the life of anyone trans or trans adjacent and 2. If the community was not so gatekeepy and actually believed that all this is complicated
I vaguely remember some issues with nonbinary people seeking medical transition and given a binary transition which didn't help. I think this is a past (or is it still happening?) example of just how oversimplified this issue is, and I think that's the fault of transphobes being the main people that have to be contented with, so we're just so often held back trying to combat it
This video is the most balanced look at detransition that I've seen. This was so refreshing to watch.
I'm a trans man 10 years into my transition and I am extremely happy with my transition. I love and feel connected with my body now. Yet, I still sometimes feel sad about my transition because it has resulted in a lot of pain (emotionally and physically). We are all complex humans, nothing is black and white. Thank you.
I feel like a large issue with transitioning is that there is pressure to have a “traditional” and linear transition. Gender expression can be messy, it can be random, it can be mixed and personal, and it can fluctuate. You don’t have to pick one label for your entire life, or even pick a label at all. You can have times where you have many labels and that makes you happy, and times where you have none and that makes you happy. I love messy genders that make you happy.
❤thank you for this. I'm a feminine presenting transman who still havent told many people about myself and how I identify. I've always loved my femininity and feel empowered by it but I also know at the same time I'm not a woman. I know I'll never "pass" as a man but that's okay to me. Because the most important thing to me is that I just want to be myself!
This is super important!! I was fine as a teenaged “girl” it was fine but at some point the idea of being a “woman” didn’t sit well with me. And now just because I didn’t want to grow up. I’m nearly 30 now and it still doesn’t feel right.. so I use they/them pronouns and I’m trying to figure out my gender lol.
I'm glad you named this. As a genderfluid person, seeing these inputs while I'm doing my new phase of research REALLY hepls. Love!
Personally, I find that the English language binary of Cisgender/Transgender is difficult. The notion that “if you are in any way, shape, or form not perfectly happy with your given gender, you are Not Cisgender” is a challenge. There was a period where I actively expressed my femininity as a part of my trans* non-binary identity, but realized that I preferred being seen as a Gay Man. I still don’t feel like “cisgender male” is accurate, but I don’t really identify as trans or even non-binary. I never transitioned.
My native ancestors used the term ku’saat (which we now describe as Two Spirit) and that’s the word I cling to because there is no direct English translation in the Cis/Trans/Non-binary model. It recognizes that I have a male and a female spirit inside and it is important to acknowledge both
I've run into something similar, where "trans" just feels too much like being across? Like, just because I'm not on the near shore, doesn't mean I'm on the far shore. I'm sitting on the riverbed, watching the light reflect off the water's surface. Calling me trans because I'm not cis feels wrong, even if the identity I use falls under an umbrella that falls under the trans umbrella. 'Trans' does not describe me.
On your second paragraph: have you heard of the label bigender? it falls under the NB umbrella, and basically means that someone experiences two gender identities -I don't know if there's a nuance difference between bigender and two spirit, but from my understanding it's a reasonable translation.
Isn't effeminate male already a term you can use? I'm sure two spirited sounds cooler tho....
I'm 2-spirit and my astrology sign is also duality 🤘 Loving life and all sides of experiences
I really enjoy how you established the difference between choosing to detransition and having transition regret. The experience of the drag performer Eureka O'Hara was really illuminating for me-- she says she doesn't like to say "detransitioned" but instead says "I transitioned to living as a woman, and then I felt as though that wasn't working out for me, so I transitioned again." That perspective, in my opinion, has the power to allow the conversation to include people who detransition without stigmatizing them as either betraying the community or saying their experience is illegitimate. There shouldn't be anything wrong with having multiple steps on your journey and growing and evolving in different ways and changing your mind. Ending up at what might appear to be the same place as you started doesn't mean that the experience wasn't valuable or necessary for you.
And now she transitioned again btw
@@parrotdoesasploot2381 love that for her!! Thanks for the update
When I first saw this title it did make me nervous as a trans man but I think that really does just have to do with the stigma around detransitioning. After watching it and sitting and thinking I feel really at peace with the choices I've made and am making. I really appreciate you opening this conversation that so many are afraid to have
Aw thanks! Yeah, "at peace with the choices I've made and am making" is how I feel as well and what I hope for everyone who's struggling with their gender 😊
From a detrans person, thank you for this video. I appreciate that you give the truth about detransition and not just try and sweep us under the rug. Too often (if not always) people like to treat detrans people as mistaken idiots, an insignificant statistic or transphobic psy-ops. Transition (social and medical) helped me until it didn’t, but that’s not the narrative trans people like to use for detrans people and it hurts to be misrepresented. It hurts to see those from a community I used to take part in, one I used to love, treat me like a devil for having a different experience.
You have a thoughtful and compassionate approach - I look forward to watching more of your channel :)
This comment means a lot to me. I really hoped that my video would accurately represent the experiences of some detrans people (obviously it's hard to describe it universally, especially as an outsider). I *so* get why it would be so hurtful for your own community to so radically misrepresent your experiences and a large part of my inspiration for making this video was trying to bridge the gap (in that, I think many trans people unfortunately need to have misconceptions corrected by someone happily transitioned because people tune out detransitioners 🙁). I personally like to view the community very broadly -- including binary trans people who complete every medical intervention, nonbinary people, trans people who don't medically transition, gendernonconforming people, and detransitioners alike (etcetc not a comprehensive list). We have all had so many similar and also so many different experiences and I hope by listening to one another we can grow and support each other. Hopefully your detransition is going great and I am happy to hear you're sticking around to watch more of my content 😊
I feel so bad for detrans folks, the trans community and the medical community basically want to ignore them as inconvenient and crazy and unworthy of treatment for what they actually need. And not everyone who detransitions does so for the same reasons either, and I always see over simplistic reasons people detrans from trans people and other people who are afraid that detrans people will invalidate people who choose to transition. They always say people detransition just because society is transphobic but when you actually listen to the stories from detransitioners, it's usually much more complicated than that.
O
I know it's not the same scenario, but I really feel for you as a pansexual person. Being bi/pan seems to just be an excuse for people to either ignore your sexuality (you're straight, right?) or dismiss it outright (you're just greedy/stupid/indecisive/slutty/ridiculous), and that happens in the community as well as out of it. It's like "You're making me feel all alone but I know for a fact that I'm not the only human with this kind of experience or perspective - you just wish we weren't a thing, for some insecure reason to do with who YOU identify as." This politics of lack approach to the rights of minorities, people at large, other animals and the environment is a very sneaky tactic that has been exploited by those on top for so long that average, loving, caring people seem to live their lives by it too. Someone should make tshirts that say "Your rights and my rights are not mutually exclusive. The world is big enough to treat everyone and everything with the respect it inherently deserves as a creation. P.S. fuck you"
See, I'm part of the problem lol it makes me so salty....
I feel like some of that is that the loudest detrans people have become transphobic, and I think it is so important that positive/neutral experiences get more attention to balance that noise out.
"You can't know with certainty that transition is gonna work." This is the crux of it. We should be accepting of the fact that life involves trying things, and if someone else's choices make you feel insecure, you might wanna think about why that is.
This felt so incredibly refreshing to hear. Detransition for me has always been a bit of a trigger subject because I then start obsessing about thoughts similar to what I've heard detransition people have, mostly out of fear that I could be one of them. The idea that every detransitioner is different and that it can work out okay aslong as you're tackling your issues is really what I think a lot of trans identifying people need to hear, so thank you for that. I also had no clue those 1% stats were a myth, but I'm glad they are if I'm honest... I have huge respect for this video, and keep it up x
@@christinaedwards5084 Of course, but not "telling you something is wrong", rather that you haven't thought about it enough or not considered some things
Dude I’m not even trans and don’t even have dysphoria but listened to your whole video till the end because of your eloquence
Aw this is so kind!!
Me too
Same here
As a trans person who’s been obsessed lately with detransition stories, THANK YOU for making this video.
I’m so thankful I transitioned about a decade ago, a few years before the big boom. I still had to get an hrt letter, and I chose to obtain that from a Christian counselor who’d never dealt with gender issues (had been seeing my main therapist at an LGBT clinic for about a year) but said he was up for the challenge of at least making sure I was healthy/fit/had no underlying issues that may be prompting my desire to transition. I’m really thankful I didn’t receive ONLY “affirming” care.
When detransitioners started becoming more openly vocal, I was years into my transition, happily living mostly stealth. Tbqh I was a bit nervous about listening to their stories at first - what if I identified with their path a bit too much? What if it made me doubt my decision? What if, god forbid, it somehow forced me to want to be a woman again?! 😨
Obviously the answer was in the question with that one hah. But this was confirmed by the fact that hearing detrans narratives only made me _more_ certain I made the right choice. Because of this, I have the utmost compassion and respect for open detransitioners. We are not the same in any way - we didn’t have the same unhappiness, we didn’t transition for the same reasons, and we didn’t get the same things out of the transition, we didn’t/don’t have the same goals. Not only is there room for both of us, but in fact, I believe both trans _and detrans_ people have almost the obligation to let people who are questioning know about the differences - and the regrets.
Also, wow, the divorce analogy is absolutely excellent.
Thank you for sharing your story! It's interesting how the concept of detransition can be frightening even when you're happy with your transition -- I definitely relate to that. And I'm happy to liked the marriage analogy; I was proud of it haha
@@arthur_rockwell Arthur, I am a retired K teacher, and unfortunately, some children have been seriously abused as young boys or girls, and in their child's mind, they get the idea that they wouldn't be experiencing this if they were the opposite sex. This is trauma, please look at mrmenno's YT channel. He is happily gay, but wanted to be girl as young child. If you have OCD, this presents a serious conflict of interest on the part of the therapist, if they think the transition will solve the OCD. You are very, very young. You do not understand the conflict of interest of the pharma and mental health fields. Young people need to realize that life is long, and you could change your mind and have regret for the rest of your life. Life is long.
Thank you for this comment. I'm in my 30s and I desperately need to transition. But I have always been afraid of the detransition narratives because I didn't want to be convinced. But in the end ...You're right! Those various narratives just make me more certain than ever about my decision.
Honestly as a detransitioner talking openly with trans people about my experiences made me even more sure of my decision to detransition lol, and made me more certain of my decision to stand by trans people even when it felt like the only community that I could relate to was the gender critical one (I think it's gotten better since then thankfully, there are more options now), I was just really afraid that my trans friends were making the same mistake I was because my ftm friends had such similar experiences with dysphoria and such and some had complicated histories with trauma and stuff so there were a lot of factors there, but one of my mtf friends helped me by giving me permission to vent all my gender critical anxiety to her which she then patiently reassured me about and explained her perspective, and I think because her experiences were inherently different to mine I was able to accept it easier when she said we had different experiences and she explained it better than my ftm friends had (I think they were also struggling to accept my detransition in some ways and might have been viewing it as internalised transphobia or something because I'd been expressing anxiety about regretting medical transition for quite a while beforehand, so they were possibly trying to convince me I was trans but ended up just convincing me that they might not be, we've worked it out now but it was weird for a while), that whole experience is why I think discussing detransition in trans spaces is so important, I can relate to trans people in ways other cis people will never, but I am not trans, so I keep having a weird identity crisis where I'm comfortable being a woman but I still don't feel cis, idk it's a weird mess. I just think it'd be cool if we could talk like we are part of the same community, just different sides with different journeys you know? If we talk we can help people figure out which is the right path to take and help them live their life with as little regret as possible, we can make it okay to choose either path and ultimately stop detransition from being used by transphobes to scare people away from a gender experience that could save their life.
I really appreciate this video. I’m a nonbinary transmasc person who has debated whether medical transition is right for me for several many years. When I was feeling super unsure about transition it wasn’t helpful to see the trans community talk so dismissively about detransition because it was a genuine concern of mine, and it often went along with a really narrow view of what being trans is that didn’t necessarily include me. Neither was it helpful to encounter some really transphobic black and white thinking from some detrans material I read.
I think your approach is absolutely correct to frame this about minimizing transition regret rather than this ridiculous weren’t really trans argument.
Thanks for this comment! Detransition/transition regret was certainly a genuine concern of mine as well and I hope you find what medical transition (or not) works for you :)
Exactly where I'm at. It's so so relieving to see this video. I'm still confused about my gender, but at least now I have something I can work off of.
RUclips constantly puts detransition videos in my feed and it always hurt as a lot of the voices from the videos recommended to me talked about how much they regretted transitioning. I am grateful for having a video that feels more informative. It’s a really tough world to navigate with so many voices but it should be treated as perfectly natural no matter how someone identifies.
When I started considering medical transition I sought out the perspectives of detransitioners and I found it really reassuring... a lot of people who describe themselves as detransitioners actually continued on their gender journey as a nonbinary person after they realized they weren't as binary as they thought. It made me realize it's ok for me to take steps that might make me mentally healthier and more comfortable, without necessary knowing all the answers or being able to predict my future feelings.
Also, as a divorced person, I can absolutely say that people tell you all this sh!t about marriage and put weird resentments on you if you divorce.
I can definitely advocate for transmed spaces being incredibly toxic for dysphoria. I've never been a person with incredibly strong dysphoria, it can be bad but it isn't "can't even look at myself in the shower" bad, it's more like "for a while I coped with dysphoria by pretending that I was just borrowing someone else's body" type bad. But when I started watching transmed type RUclipsrs I felt so weird about myself and constantly questioned if I needed to be more dysphoric or less feminine. Although I know that the word "man" best describes me and I feel like a man through and through, I also like 'feminine' clothes and I'm not a macho dude. Nowadays it's just helped me realized that I'm not just transitioning because of gender stereotypes, but because it's what really feels right to me. I started T about 3 months ago and just simple things like seeing more body hair on me have been filling me with complete and total joy.
I completely feel for people who've had bad dysphoria and found transitioning DIDN'T bring them joy. It's important to remember that transitioning can really only go so far to help you and you can't go into it thinking it's necessary or that it will solve all your problems. And of course, as in anything in life, it's important to accept that there's a possibility you're wrong. Having your mind open to other options makes the whole thing a lot easier and let's you turn back sooner than having to go through all the denial.
Thank you for making this video! As a trans guy who’s had some bad experiences with detrans folks, watching videos like these makes me a little nervous some times. Keep in mind I 100% understand that a majority of de-transitioners are lovely, I just got unlucky.
I know I’ve always wanted to transition, but I also have heavy anxiety and the idea that I might be wrong somehow terrifies me. I spent so long trying to just convince people I love just to use the right pronouns that the idea I might detransition sounds like it’d be humiliating more than anything else, even if right now I KNOW I’m a guy.
This video has really chilled me out though and I somehow feel more affirmed than I did before.
I think the word "detransition" gives off this idea that the person is no longer Trans, which I've heard is often hurtful for a lot of people. I wonder if using the term "retransition" could be more appropriate? Because as you said gender identity is nuanced and changes our entire life, so it's not really that they're not "real trans", they just realized that a new transition might help them better in that new stage of life
but the point is they've transitioned and then realised it wasn't right for them, and thus undoing their decision
@@frank_calvert That seems logical, but “de-transition” often implies that the person in question “undid” everything and went back to square one, when that’s not always the case. As some individuals in the comments say, choosing to detransition helped them to experience and explore more of their feelings on their identity, and they didn’t necessarily have the same identity as they did before transitioning. Furthermore, there are people who still identify as trans who no longer identify with how they were post-transitioning (detransitioning didn’t mean they were no longer identifying as trans in some way). However, that’s just my way of looking at it based on what I’ve heard and seen here, and it’s more respectful to leave it to the community in question anyways and the individual who is affected (like those in the video whom Arthur says no longer think of themselves/identity as trans).
(Also, if I’m being ignorant or disrespectful in this reply, please let me know. I wanted to contribute a second opinion based on detransitioners’ comments here, but ultimately as a person not in that community I don’t want to speak over them and their preferred language.)
I always say I retransitioned! I transitioned ftm and now I'm non binary. Some people do entirely detransition but I think a lot of people don't.
I was thinking exactly this though out. Okay, it was more along the line that it's not a detransition but another transition but I like retransition better!
@@frank_calvert yep. everything is aaaalllways about someone else's feelings when the person isn't even dealing with them or what have you. There are times to care what others think and then times not to. This over caring and changing up things is going to make people burst.
I so appreciate and value the nuance that you approached this topic with. As a detransitioner myself, it's so easy to feel isolated; a community that once had been my floating device in the middle of the ocean seemed to be causing me to sink all of a sudden instead. Even with detransition itself, resources are very difficult to come by, I remember digging through Reddit for hours at a time just trying to scrap up any information I could.
I have BPD, and PTSD. Without going too in-depth, my life has been very traumatic up until this point. Transition meant everything to me, I was more than just sure of myself, and I hadn't had any doubt. That is, until after a little under three months on T. Suddenly, things just...didn't feel right. I can't pinpoint my exact feelings, it was just this general air of discomfort and I started to feel that I couldn't recognize myself.
I'm more comfortable now just existing. I think I tried escaping one box by entering another. And it's really sad to me that my experience is cast away simply because my story does not fit the typical trans narrative you often see.
I think it's really important that detransition is spoken about more openly...people like myself deserve to have easy access to information about feelings that I know from firsthand experience cause a lot of distress and guilt.
Thank you so much for this comment! Detransitioners are very much part of the community, in my mind, and I really hoped this video would speak to your guys' experiences.
THANK YOU for this video! I'm an enby who has always had many queer men and straight women in my life, but very few gay women. As a result, I've been unable to see myself as anything other than "wrong." I didn't identify with the other people around me who inhabit bodies that look like mine, but I also didn't look like the people around me with whom I could identify. It only recently occurred to me that there might be people who look AND act like me, and I just haven't found them, yet. Recently, my exposure to butch people has been so validating!! And, knowing that the "am i a butch lesbian? a trans man? neither?? both????" thoughts are fairly common is such a relief. The cishet people around me often assume that queer people are very certain in their identities and sometimes, I want to think that way, too. But, it's hard out here. Thank you, again, for this video ❤️
So agree that discovering the butch community can be a comforting and validating experience. I also had the "why aren't you certain?? Why don't you know??" thoughts for a long time, but now I've cut my past self so much slack. Life is complex and being gendernonconforming/transgender can be a complicated, hard, and rewarding journey!
A friend of mine went through transition from male to transfem non binary he went through hormones and started socially to id as a transfem person. But recently he decided to start a detrans. It shouldn't be something to fear, everyone can go through a gender journey and it is fine. He has decided he is much more okay with IDing as a feminine presenting man rather than a trans woman. He decided to keep his name change though.
I'm gender nonbinary but I present as female for the sake of others. In truth I don't really care, I'm probably agender. I have realized that my ideal body shape would be completely androgynous. Flat chest, flat everything, no curves. My chest caused me a bit of dysphoria in my early 20s, but now that I'm a mom and have breastfed, I realized the benefit of bonding with my child and I'm glad I have them. Ultimately I have come to terms with my body as it is, and am aware that in another life I could have transitioned, however I don't know if living as a man would have left me truly satisfied in any case. Gender is extremely complicated. And transition or no, ultimately there is a limit on what can be done with the body you have. No surgery in the would could give me the body I wish I had. It is important for everyone to come to terms with their body because while surgery can help with the dysphoria and makes a big difference for some people, it is not a magic fix-all.
I think you hit the nail on the head with how studies operationalize "detransitioning" and how there is basically no consistency in the field. It is such a blind spot that the research field doesn't care to answer.
I know the thumbnail was a joke, but I’d honestly love to see you do more videos a la Contrapoints if that’s something you’re interested in. Left Tube has nothing in terms of FtM representation, it would be incredibly refreshing
there’s an FTM youtuber called Boyform who’s made amazing video essays. i recommend his channel! :)
I think that the reason is that trans women are targeted more often and that means that they have to fight 10x harder. Trans men don't have to fight to go to the bathroom and nobody is going around screaming that they are going into the men's spaces to r@pe the cismen. That situation generally pushes trans women to the left and they have more of a need to come out and fight for their rights regardless of the consequences because the group doesn't have much to lose. Trans women have no options even if they are stealth they know that if they get outed they may lose everything and many trans women have been victims of violence because they were outed. They have to find a way to change society for their survival. **To be clear I am not saying that trans men don't face discrimination, but they are in less physical danger than trans women.**
@@rn2787 TERFs and "bathroom police" keep being obsessed with trans women and even often forgetting trans men exist.
@@Call-me-Al yup.
I'm about to see a doctor who specializes in hormone therapy. I've identified as trans since I was 13, and I'm now 18. I've had a lot of mental health issues in my life, and something I've noticed is that at the absolute worst of my suicidality, anxiety, etc, I was trans. I've done so much work in therapy and I probably feel the best I ever have in my life mental health wise right now. I identify as trans now as well.
Like many others, I avoided detransitioning narratives out of anger, fear, and confusion. I was terrified I would decide it was better to stay in a box that I had hated my whole life (cisgender female). Your distinction between detransitioning and having transition regret has meant the world to me. I've never heard it described that way, and it resonates heavily with me. I've done a lot of external research and introspection, and I want to start testosterone. It's not a fix all and I always knew that. But I truly believe it will be such a positive for me. Fretting about if I'm dysphoric enough, male enough, etc, has done nothing. I know this is a good decision for me right now, but I cannot see the future and that's okay.
This also makes me feel more comfortable with reevaluating my feelings about my transition down the line. If a certain result of hrt does not feel right to me, I don't have to continue. But I also don't have to immediately detransition and say I was wrong from the start. It's clearly not that black and white, and I want to do my best to be okay with that. Thank you.
More talk of the dysphoric transmascs but romantically lesbian PLEASE. I felt so seen by you the 1st person I've ever heard talk about it. I was on T for almost 4 years and had top surgery before realizing I don't desire to be male, but very masc. Neutral pronouns are not always accepted so in the case id have to choose, male pronouns and descriptors feel more comfortable. I don't mind that I'm biologically female, especially after having top surgery and my voice lowering. Yet I don't feel like a woman. And not just in a social/society way, but internally. I tried just being a masc woman but that wasn't enough, transitioned, but living and looking entirely as a man was too much.
I usually use androgyne or genderqueer or transmasc to describe my gender. I say I'm androgynous leaning masc both on the outside and internally. Im a masculine PERSON who happens to be female. I wish it wasn't so confusing, I wish I wasn't this way and I wish I knew an easier term and way to describe it to others when asked.
And yes I do feel much more comfortable in queer afab spaces/lesbian community. I admire buches and how some are comfortable using the term to identify their gender. Wish that was also something more talked about for better understanding.
I'm more comfortable being referred to as partner, but other gendered words id choose uncle over aunt for example. And my dad gives my favorite compliment. He said "dude you look sharp!" Which feel more masc but feels more fitting than handsome. Although id take handsome over pretty.
It's a very confusing spot to be in and I tend to say I'm homosexual to describe I'm attracted to other afab ppl who id as either women or genderqueer themselves. But I know for some that could come off as I would see binary trans folks as their agab but thats just not the case. I just simply have no clue what else I'm suppose to use to describe it.
Also wanted to add, if someone transitions to alleviate dysphoria but then they succeed in that and then choose to stop hrt, does that make them less trans just because they weren't trans in a binary way? Thats why I still from time to time use transmasc. I did need to do some things to alleviate dysphoria. I transitioned to be more masculine, but not a transman (binary) even though at the time of transitioning I didn't realize that. For some, transition has an ending and for others they may continue hrt for the rest of their lives.
If anyone reads this and can relate, I'm sorry that you can relate bc it sucks, but also hello I too exist in this space and you're not alone.
Hey hi similar deal with me. Yeah I wish it wasn't so complicated. I have a dear friend who is a trans man who is binary but regrets T because they lost all their hair. They stopped taking T but honestly it makes no difference. Their identity is still a trans man.
Transmasculine butches and lesbians are valid too.
i am going through this crisis exactly rn. I am planning on transitioning in the next coming year(s) but I am scared I will never feel comfortable being perceived as fully male and it feels weird leaving the lesbian community. I don't know if im a feminine binary man or non binary, and quite frankly I still dont even understand wtf gender is. Its like i feel more like a gay 'twinkish' man, but I am only into women and its just aarghghghhg
I'm a cis woman. I have beard envy and it made me question my gender. I put NB in my Twitter profile, bought a binder, and tried out they/them. I still have the binder and have only worn it twice. NB, and they/them didn't feel right. It was also good to read that Testosterone is NOT a guaranteed beard and I didn't want all the body hair that T gives. It was really good to question my gender, it makes me feel more comfortable being a woman. Getting out of strict gender roles (Mormonism) helped A LOT because Mormons only conception of women was as mothers which was NOT right for me at all, where father's don't have to deal with kids as much. I still don't know why I have beard envy maybe I'll try dude drag sometime.
I so wish dude drag was more popular! Would so watch a dude version of drag race
Crazy because I am a trans man who was raised Mormon. And although I feel very secure and pleased with my transition so far, I never realized how detrimental mormonism is on a trans person. Somewhere subconsciously I still feel guilty for my existence even if I feel much better now that I am presented as male, the walking on eggshells, and deep rooted guilt from Mormonism really rose up. I just found it cool that another mormon related person is on here because the deeply ingrained gender roles is very detrimental towards trans people raised in the church.
i also grew up in a very mormon household in utah valley, surrounded by mormons, never even hearing about lgbtq people until i was about 13! i agree that is has a large affect on how we may see gender roles/envy other genders, and i say that as a questioning transmasculine/ non-binary person.
I am detrans. One of the " rare one percent" I was on t for six years, my whole adult life. Nobody wants to listen to me in the medical field when I call to report my detransition.
Don't give up.
this was a really informative video! I think that many people don't like to acknowledge detransitioners because if they do, they have their own worries about whether they might regret their transition in the future. it was nice to hear about another side of detransition, especially when detransition is generally marked as regret rather than other possible factors that may come into play.
Yes! I found the idea of detransitioners way more scary when I hadn't yet transitioned than now when I'm pretty content in my transition. Back then, I felt comforted when people would try and claim detransition was incredibly rare, but now that my own worries are quieter it's way easier to acknowledge that people having varying degrees of happiness and complex opinions about their transitions.
"gender is hard and we're all doing our best" lol so true it hurts.
love your kind & nuanced approach to the subject. it's really frustrating when people insist detrans people were never really trans & btw they're statistically insignificant anyway. I mean I get the inclination to deny detrans people their experiences when it feels like the loudest of the bunch are gender critical bigots. But it's still not true and far from the whole picture.
Thank you!! I have been heavily questioning lately, but this reminded me that my first priority should be being happy and content as myself, not necessarily trying to “figure out” my true identity, because I’m sure that will eventually manifest itself. Forcing doubt (and negativity) on myself has not been helpful
Totally! Exactly how I think about it. I wish you good luck on this journey ☺️
BRUUUH the showering in the dark thing so true, growing up in like, transmed spaces and specfically hearing kalvin garrah (ew) talk about how much he hated everything about himself really imprinted on me, so i grew up thinking i need to hate my ALL of my body to be trans, which just isnt healthy at all
As a non-binary person, I found this video really insightful and I really love the way you talk about how experiences of gender are varied, even in a single individual over time. It also reminds me of why, at least right now, I don't plan on medically transitioning in any way because I'm... somewhat? Mostly? Fine with the body I have, and even though there are things about it I wish I could change (e.g. muscle mass, voice range, "softness?" of facial features). To me, it's just not worth it especially because I honestly don't know how I would feel about living with the results, so I wouldn't even say that I'm "transitioning" but more so changing the way I dress and present so that I feel the most comfortable. It's also different because as a non-binary person, I'm not going from one end to another, I'm trying to get the world to see not "man" or "woman" but just... me. And different NB people will also have different goals, so like some NB people might medically transition as well as socially transition whereas I think at least right now I'm most comfortable with just shifting the cadence of my voice and wearing a binder sometimes, etc.
Thanks for the comment! I'm always happy to hear when my videos speak to many different life experiences. I am, I suppose, a binary trans man but I certainly view my community as encompassing trans/non-binary/GNC and strive to make content which reflects that
Social Influences!! when i (a probably cis gay guy) was first discovering what being gay meant (like 2012), i was exposed to a LOT of homophobic rhetoric and hate crimes that it made me feel worse about being gay. i felt like my life was going to be dangerous and awful despite never having experienced this for myself, and it made me stay closeted all thru highschool when i could have easily and safely been out!! and i was hearing these things from other gay people!!
i totally agree that we need to be more careful about how we talk about being queer in queer spaces and to focus on being positive. it's from learning more about trans people's experiences when i started questioning myself that made me realize a lot of that!!
Thank you for this video, it was clear and still had room for nuance. Although as someone who is 63 of age, one would think that such a person would know what he/she is doing, but transition is 'new' for me now I finally dared to make the step. 'Detransitioning' and the stories around it, is certainly one of the things I worry about [although the furter I'm in the proces, the smallers the worries get]. Your video analysed much about detransitioning in a clear way for me. [it made also clear to me that you are working on your PHD]
Pardon my my mistakes in writing and syntaxis; English is not my first laguage, in my region we first learn Dutch, French and German.
This showed up in my recommended videos and I'm so glad it did. As a cis person, the divorce metaphor and the emphasis on decoupling detransition (the action) from regret (the feeling) has given me a lot to think about and provided me with a much better understanding of detransitioning. Thank you for a well-researched and informative video essay!
First I wanted to thank you for posting this video. I am in the process of coming to terms that I am transgender (mtf) I wanted to research why people detransition. I saw a Ton of very negative content on that subject that I felt didn't apply to me. I really think you helped me reduce some of my concerns about going on hormones. I think for each person this is a very different process and one we need to work through on our own. It is hard because of me, there is a certain amount of comfort I have built into my male life. I know what to expect and even though I think it would be great to have been born female, making an unknown jump is scary.
Thank you for making this video. It allowed me to think of my transition in a much healthier way with far less anxiety. The marriage analogy I think helps in both transition and detransition. I am marrying a new body, a new name and a new way of being seen. If this relationship becomes toxic, I can always get a divorce. But for now, I love this new me and wish to cherish it. If I would not marry it now, I would regret it later.
This video really made me think, I don't have anything to add. I'm glad I saw this as a cis person, I've always heard this argument of "Oh, all these trans people are going to detransition in a few years! They just want attention, that's why they're making *us* do the work of figuring out pronouns" and it's hard to respond. Thank you for making this, it's incredibly insightful and you're a fantastic speaker.
This is so kind 😌
People get so worked up about the idea of being wrong. Detransitioners speaking up circa 2016 (when trans and gender critical ideology seemed to BOOM) actually HELPED me make the decision to go ahead and medically transition. I'd questioned since age 16 and began T at age 27 (long time to be debating with myself).
The thing that bothered me the most was a diagnosis via a 'feeling'. I mean, how was I to know what another person FELT? Did I feel like a man? Not really. Men generally did not treat me as one of their own. But a woman? Nope. Women often told me to get the hell out of the female restroom and I was made to feel unwelcome in female spaces (to any MTFs reading this - being not considered 'woman enough' is a thing that genetic females experience as well...it is not outside of the female experience to be ostracized for being 'too masculine' -- sad but true).
Before this, I'd heard those 0.1% detrans rates and was genuinely curious how those were calculated. In 2010 I knew of two desisted females and one transman and one trans woman. Small sample size but pretty large desistence rate for 11 years ago. Because of what I'd seen with my own eyes, something felt incorrect about that data.
Now as a scientist myself, I see it all the time - bias everywhere. It's not just in the soft sciences. Hell...our own algorithms to analyze data begin to bias themselves on their own. Anyway, since then I've met a shitload of trans, detrans, desisted, questioning, all sorts of people. I've met incels who hate women but want to be one and lesbians who hate men (yet want to be one as well). People like Trisha Paytas claiming transness has people all up in arms, but if it's "just a feeling" then what makes her feelings less valid than mine...unless stereotypes DO play a role (of course they do :P). But if she wants to go on testosterone one day and use 'he/him' pronouns at some point...whatever. That's Trisha's decision. It isn't an empirical diagnosis, and the majority of people who talk about that white/gray matter study probably have 'gender conforming' brains. Also fMRI is filled with circle jerk confirmation biasing usually.
Mm yeah I personally think that overall the gender critical content I read didn't leave me better off *but* there were a handful of things that, similar to what you've described, helped me process my choice to transition. Like hearing about the historically lesbian language of "female man" and GCs descriptions of "females on testosterone" were something I related to for some time (though no longer tbh). I also had a hard time with gender "feelings" and so I did take some comfort in talking about my actions in an ~objective~ sense (like especially pre T calling myself a man felt a bit crazy, but calling myself a female man felt like my lived reality).
@@arthur_rockwell Why would the gender critical stuff leave you better off? That stuff is literal transphobia. Do women reading MRA websites supposed to feel better about themselves? Or Black people reading "race realism" supposed to feel better about themselves?
@@jonathanxavier2026 I think you were being rhetorical but I actually feel way better about myself when I read MRA websites. Safely immersing yourself in opposing extremist views is a good way to give yourself a new perspective, reframe your own arguments, and get a better understanding of the emotions and experiences behind bigoted views. I was really fascinated by MRA and MGTOW in my early 20s and am extremely thankful for the exposure at that time when, as a lesbian, I didn't really have a dog in the fight. Now I'm a parent of a son and I feel way better prepared and aware of any potential harmful attitudes that could manifest as my kid gets older.
Don't give opposing viewpoints your time and consideration if they will be bad for you, but don't be afraid of them outright. Reading something doesn't legitimize it.
@ippos_khloros Gender identity being separable from bodily sex, and bodily sex not being as clearly binary as was once believed, aren't far-fetched, even though they sound strange to anyone raised to believe that gender = sex and sex = male or female. The medical community once believed that homosexuality was a form of mental illness, and it knows different now. We all used to believe it was not "natural" because we believed other mammals didn't exhibit same-sex pair bonding...except that now we know they actually sometime do, and in some species, far more often that we expected. Same with cross-sex social behavior even including pair bonding and/or mating behaviors: they happen in other kinds of mammals, so they can no longer be considered some sort of social invention unique to humans. Historically, shockingly, gay and trans people have always existed and in many societies, even in antiquity, were revered rather than reviled, but European colonialism and the far-reaching and highly invasive influence of The Church did much to erase, censor, and suppress art, poetry, and ancient texts in which same-sex love or cross-gender people were represented. So the sense that this is all some unnatural and newfangled notion is false, based on hundreds of years of deliberate erasure by organized religious and political conquest. But regardless of what our taboos are or aren't, modern medicine no longer believes gay or transgender people to be suffering from a mental illness, but recognizes that they are as valid as straight and cisgender people, psychologically and biologically.
Thank you for making this video. I feel like this gets overlooked a lot. When I was deciding if transition was right for me, I made a decision that if it ever felt wrong, I would detransition. With that in mind, I searched for detrans spaces to see if there was anything I should consider before I started medical transition, and overwhelmingly the pages I went to were filled with terfs and transphobes.
I think detransition should be discussed in trans circles, but not as a failure. Things change and there are so many reasons for people to detransition. Unfortunately, the loudest detrans voices seem to be the ones saying "transition wasn't right for me, thefore it is always wrong and trans people do not exist."
This was a great video, a really valuable conversation that I wish could be had in good faith more prevalently throughout trans spaces. There's so much nuance and complexity with regards to peoples' personal relationships with gender and transition, it's a shame that detransition is so often only portrayed in a negative light. This felt really useful and even comforting as someone who's questioning their gender and what transition steps I might want to take in the future, so thank you :)
Thank you for the comment! Yes, there's nothing that grinds my gears more than bad faith conversations about people's personal identities.
As a trans person who has struggled for like 5 years now to gain access to transition and STILL HASN'T because of various intersecting discriminations and who has had detransitioned people used against itself so much and done the same as you, listened to so many detrans people, there genuinely is nothing more reassuring than detransitioned people!!!! Like it's so good to see the bodies and experiences of detrans people and also! See their happiness even their struggles!!! Idk. The problem really isn't detransition or detransitioned people it's the lack of agency over our choices and bodies that trans (and honestly detrans!) people face. I would honestly rather just make my choice, informed and well supported as i am and not face so much doubt from the medical system and later regret it than go through having to explain my gender over and over again and being accused of lying or even actually just lying just so I can get bodily autonomy.... If I make the "wrong" choice please just.... Let me. I'm an adult person I can DEAL with the consequences of my own decisions if you let me make them. But yeah thank you for this it's genuinely the best outlook on detransition I've seen online!
I also would like to say that what you said about what will make you happier over all with addressing problems in therapy is true BUT also not safely possible for all trans people. I tried addressing my csa with my therapist who i was already working with because I wanted to transition, because i trusted him and it literally became this conversion therapy thing you talked about and I genuinely would rather die than go through that again and i DO NOT recommend anyone else should do that. I am lucky and have a great support system but surviving abusive therapy is not easy and it made everything just so much worse i wish i had just stuck with talking about it with friends who understand.
This is the first time that I heard that people think that detransitioners don't exist. Based on my current interactions with the community, my understanding is that it is rare but it does happen and that most detranstioners do it for various reasons including societal expectations, financial stress, or because their body doesn't react well to the treatment. My understanding is that the vast majority of detransitioners are in fact still trans. So yeah, I mean if you haven't told me that some people don't think they exist I would have never known this to be the case.
As far as I'm concerned, detrans people that still identify as trans are part of the trans community and will always be. Just as there is no necessity to medically transition to be trans, there's no necessity to keep on going once you start. The video mentions that medical procedures don't always work for everyone and that's absolutely valid.
The one small exception, I will make (and I'll explain why) are detrans people that then go on to diss the entire trans community and accuse all trans people of being deluded or nefarious. I remember when I started transitioning, RUclips felt it needs to show me tons of videos of detrans people that were very hostile towards transition and started really messing with me and fuelling fears of me doing the wrong thing. I decided to just force RUclips to stop recommending them and I'm glad I did that. Transition literally saved my life and was the right thing for me.
That said, if it's not the right thing for you, that doesn't make you bad, invalid, or not trans and your voice is needed in the community because that perspective is important. Just don't be a dick about it :)
i agree, i encountered numerous videos of people who detransition and then go into almost terf-like rhetoric, being transphobic and generally awful... i've seen one of two of them and they made me anxious to the point where the whole subject of detransition makes me anxious, because i associate it with such rhetoric!! they project their personal story onto others and it made me project my feelings of anxiety onto the whole subject of detransition, because i feel threatened and afraid to see transphobic and disrespectful rhetoric, undermining trans people and acting as if transition shouldn't be allowed because it failed THEM, ignoring thousands of people who are alive because they were allowed to transition!!
but yeah i think that everyone has the right to do whatever they want with their bodies & social presentation and if detransitioning is something they want to do, i'm all for it!! i respect every reason behind detransitioning and support every person's journey to be truly themselves
but i just wish the transphobic detransition stories didn't gain this much traction, esp considering the fact that they buy into conservative "tHeY aRe BrAiNWaShiNG oUr ChiLdReN to CHAnGe SeX" worldview and conservatives can use these videos as perfect "token detransitioned person failed by the TRA community" evidence!!
like the subject is still so delicate and polarizing that having almost any opinion on it and expressing it publicly can affect the discourse! and that's a bit scary
@@christinaedwards5084 where is this magical place? I had to wait a year before getting my first hormone prescription after a year in therapy and 3 appointments with psychiatrists and endocrinologists. This is considering I'm an adult, went private, and paid out of pocket. Sure, probably there are some places that are more lenient but I'm yet to see anything beyond anecdotes that shows that this is the mass practice.
@@christinaedwards5084 overall according to whom? The data seems to go against your assertion. The amount of detransitioners hasn't massively increased, the waiting times for access to hormones haven't decreased and the gatekeeping is getting stronger not the other way around. This is why policy shouldn't be done by everyday people. Heresy is not a way to make decisions. Bottom surgery, based on current studies, is the procedure that people regret the least and I don't know a single person that actually regretted it yet your experience is different. The thing is, if I get all of my friends and they say they were happy with their transition and you get all of yours and they say they were unhappy, it will mean nothing because statistically we are irrelevant. This is why policymakers need to go off of averaged data, not moral panic. Transitioning is not nor will it ever be for everyone, however, it is for some people. There is no situation in which 100% of the people will be happy so, unfortunately, we need to balance the harm caused with the benefits gained and at least for now, things seem to show that there's no significant cause for concern. This hypothetical detransition wave is nowhere to be found in the data and unless we see it, I suggest we act with a bit more calm.
as someone who has socially transitioned many different ways throughout my life, thank you for this! gender is complex as heck and it can change over time. i feel like a lot of ppl forget that gender is influenced by social and emotional aspects; you arent born having a sense of gender, you develop it over time. some people feel one way their entire life, but that's not how it works for a lot of people. i think we should normalize gender not being a set in stone thing, it can change and thats ok!
I originally watched this video as a transman. I'm now rewatching a year into detransition. I greatly appreciated your "How to Know if You're Trans" video with the linked bullet point list and have shared it in my Trans & Detrans Discord. I may be going through a grieving process as part of understanding my new situation as a detrans woman, but it is still true that the vast majority of my time being a man was fulfilling and felt natural to me. The man I was for that 14 years never once regretted or felt bad about transition. I simply changed in a radical way internally. I followed my deepest instincts when I was transitioning, and have again followed those instincts detransitioning. While I'm grieving my losses, when I come out of this process on the other side, I will come to accept the bigger picture and the fact that I was very happy with my transition for a long time.
what a waste of life... instead of having kids and being a kind, wholesome mother, this brat is jerking thisway that way... trying to escape the realisation of the uselessness of selfish life
@@svetavinogradova4243Detransitioners didn't waste their life. Also, you're really creepy by mentioning that detrans women should just be baby makers & mothers. Your sexist attitude is part of what causes women to transition & then detransition.
i just discovered your channel today, and i’m loving all your videos! this one was excellent, i really appreciate the open-minded and non-judgmental approach you’ve taken - i think the trans community really needs that. thanks for making an awesome video :)
Omg I'm so flattered 😌. This means a lot -- open-minded and non-judgemental is exactly what I'm going for.
.
well. the thing is, when the general cis public asks, "what about detransition?" they are not usually asking about detrans experiences, they are asking if they should prevent transition. and similarly, "detransition is exceedingly rare" is not usually about detrans experiences either, it is answering that the times the general cis public should be involved in preventing transition are exceedingly rare.
this is like, extremely annoying and hurtful to detrans people for all the reasons you went over. i agree with all that, you did a good job there. i appreciate the reminder to be empathetic and careful to wording for detrans people in my social spaces. silly to put all this effort in to influence most cis and then not care about people that, like you pointed out, overlap more with us than them.
but the aforementioned effort really can't just be put aside... this is more serious than some small percentage of detransitioners being transphobic. it is that these experiences can be, ARE weaponized to further anti-transgender opinion and legislature, VERY often, and VERY effectively. when in any relatively public space, like RUclips, it cannot just be about information. it must address misinformation and misused information, in the beginning and repeatedly throughout and probably a couple other spots too. it's (not fully, but enough) like how video makers must talk about vaccine adverse events; recommending vaccination has to happen in the start of the video, not partway through, even when it's almost not related, because of the societal context.
i think you did well enough for 'throughout'. the video, taken in its entirety, is good! i would particularly recommend it to people considering if transition or detransition is right for them, though i do notice a bit of emphasis on assuming the viewer is FTM and/or part of those negative mostly-online social groups that involve/mimic pro ED and selfharm, but that's fine, personally irrelevant information won't hurt them. but i also think your video, or at least future videos on similar topics, would benefit from being much clearer, much sooner, about the part which most affects opinion on public health policy. an opening line that includes "detransition is a bigger problem than people think - and i still support informed consent. stick around to find out why", would be quite effective.
hm. i kind of went overboard explaining but.. oh well. thanks for the video dude
This video helped immensely thank you so much. I’m a trans man who isn’t out yet but I wanted to be absolutely positive before I come out, start HRT or get top surgery. It feels hard for me to know for sure a lot of times, and there’s all these what if’s. But this helped so much. I can’t know the future, and I just have to trust myself. If I end up changing my mind later, it doesn’t say anything about my sincereness now.
i am proud of my transition, but at the same time i'd not recommend it to other people. transition can be a heartbreaking process, it made me doubt everything i believed before, almost all the people i loved and trusted left me. so i had to learn to have faith in myself, so that i can live without the support of other people. i feel happy with the physical changes i got in my body, but, dammit, if i wanted to detransition, there wouldn't be a place i could go back to, i don't feel connected with those people anymore. so it's pretty insulting to hear that 'everyone will eventually detransition'. it feels like it comes from a place of privilege, that you are able to go back to life as it was before, and not everyone can or even wants to. my position is that life moves on, people who left me are best forgotten, and i should face life with all the strength that i got from this complicated process. if you detransition, don't try to go back, always move forward. we cannot and should not try to fix the past, there's no point in living with regrets.
Really solid video. I’m trans, and I know probably close to 50 detrans people from Twitter. A nuanced take like this is really needed
i had to start blocking detran accounts because youtube wouldn't stop recommending me their videos and it just filled me with so much anxiety and really didn't help me figure out if transition was right for me. I appreciate this video though, as a nb person i've had to accept that most of the visible mainstream trans stories won't reflect my own and I can't obsess over my feelings until the end of time. So far I'm happy with my transition but that could change and it won't be the end of the world.
You do such a good job at putting things into words and providing nuance about these complicated things. I feel like I walked away from this video feeling less confused and more calm about how I wanna approach gender
I'm so happy to hear it! This was something I struggled with for so long and I wanted to make the kind of video that my younger self needed to see. Wishing you luck in finding a gender identity/presentation that works for you 😊
i was in ED treatment right at the beginning of my transition and that therapy really really helped a lot with my dysphoria, even though it was not centered around gender identity at all. Also finding other trans women musicians especially in punk and hardcore did a LOT for accepting myself too and coming into being comfortable with things about myself that used to give me dysphoria. This is a really thoughtful essay and I like all the points you hit. Nice channel, Arthur! Subscribed!
Yeah, I'm mtf and dated a gay cis woman for a few months who had learned to embrace her masculine characteristics. She was tall (taller than me even), had a high hairline, but dressed in a mix between masculine and feminine. I thought she was beautiful though, and she owned the hell out of it. She had confidence in herself and actually previously socially transitioned to male in high school but determined it wasn't right for her. I guess she was a detransitioner in a way. Unfortunately things didn't work out between us, but meeting her gave me a lot more confidence in myself and helped me to get over insecurities in my appearance and my voice. She encouraged me to join a church choir in my batural baritone range, and I'm still in that choir months after I last saw her.
Sometimes, dysphoria can be managed without drastic intervention.
I'm so grateful to have stumbled across this video, Arthur! You really called out some of my internalized transphobia and I really needed this nuanced compassionate reality check. Really an astute perspective. Thank you!
What a nuanced, well articulated and informed take on something I knew next to nothing about. How does this guy only have 2500 followers?
i’m not trans but i am a lesbian and going to begin working for a lgbt mental health charity in a few months time and this video was so interesting and eloquent, really gave me a lot to think about and consider! thank you
Thanks for listening 🥰
I think looking into the cause of my dysphoria helped me to transition more healthily than I otherwise would have, adopting a principle of minimal intervention for the most benefit, and the the principle of decreasing returns on investment.
I find Ray Blanchard's research very illuminating to why I'm gender dysphoric. I'm autogynephilic and this sort of led to me idealizing femininity and not wanting to exist as a man. I did notice that a good deal of my dysphoria came from online truscum communities and being undatisfied with being trans (wanting to be a cis woman). I was forced to be honest with myself and leave those communities. It helped so much but not all my dysphoria went away which is why I decided to start HRT and social transition.
Both have helped so so much over the last year and a half and I'm far happier and no longwr suicidally depressed. But I feel I'm afforded a much more serious perspective about the surgeries I want to do and the risk and financial investment required.
If I can live the rest of my life as a trans woman with a penis and have only mild dysphoria about my parts, maybe that's best. Again, minimal intervention for maximum benefit, and is it worth is to spend thousands of dollars and weeks of recovery time and maybe never have sensation down there again to reduce an insecurity I could probably live with (and possibly be insecure about having a neovagina instead of a vagina)? No.
I've been on a good deal of dates with bisexual and lesbian cis women and been intimate with one bisexual woman. I still get insecure over dating a lot but I don't necessarily think that's because I'm trans. I think I'd be in this boat even if I hadn't transitioned.
But it's worth bearing in mind: are you willing to be that vulnerable and reduce your dating pool that much? For some, it isn't worth it.
I think people need to approach dysphoria with the idea that not every insecurity is gender dysphoria which is incurable. Some of it can be worked through.
Might I wake up one day 10 years from now and want to go back to living as a guy? Maybe, and I accept that. I still wake up sometimes feeling like I'm a man in a weird position. Transition so far has allowed me to feel freer and to give myself the tools I needed to dig myself out of the worst suicidal depression I've had.
This is an excellent video. Thank you for speaking thoughtfully and fairly about this issue. Detrans people's experiences do not take away any legitimacy from trans people who benefitted from transition. It's just helpful to be open and honest about both outcomes as real possibilities, and the importance of checking on yourself as you go into this and working through trauma at any stage of your journey. The marriage analogy was particularly apt. Thank you
I am a trans man with ocd and my current theme is around detransition and I’m part way through treatment and I’m working on accepting doubt and uncertainty. I probably wouldn’t have been able to watch this video a month ago without completely spiraling into compulsions and anxiety but I’m so glad that I could watch this video. On a meta level my ocd was/is attached to my beliefs and understandings around what detransition means and why it happens. My understanding of detransition was lackluster at best and just terrifying to me. This video really took some of the fear out of the concept and let me accept the gray areas even though it’s scary to me. Thank you so much! Knowing you have ocd as well helped me decide to comment :)
You sound exactly like me two years ago! Now that this video is gaining traction, I find myself wondering if I can produce other similarly well-researched content but honestly the only reason I know so much about detransition is because of my OCD (ie, my compulsive researching). It took many months and a lot of work, but now those worries and spirals are just a quiet memory. I might even make a video about this sometime, but what surprised me was how slowly and peacefully the obsession faded away. I thought I would Find the Answer ™️ or know perfectly when I did my first T shot I would never detransition. Instead, as my mental health got better and my transition became so evidently a joyous, healthy experience, the worries about detransition just stopped being so seductive. I would have that same impulse "what if you check out detrans Twitter?" but then I just ... wouldn't care. If I do detransition one day, I feel confident I would think back fondly on my time spent transitioning and what more can one ask for? And I've been this way, really content in my transition and with my old OCD habits muted, for nearly a year now. And I have faith you will achieve this peace one day too 😊
@@arthur_rockwell Thank you! I’m very hopeful as well!
THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!!! SO MUCH!!!
i identified as nonbinary for 2-3 years since i was like, 12, and now i started college and now realised i feel more uncomfortable with it. I was like- was i faking it this whole time?? am i betraying trans people?? then it turned into self-deprecation that i had to be a woman or else i'm betraying feminism- i felt so lost and scared, because i'm still experiencing dysphoria, or at least something very similar to it, but i'm uncomfortable with being perceived as neutral. Your video essay really, really validated my struggles and now i know that theres no two distinct categories of "cis" and "trans".
I was afraid to stop considering myself trans (i didnt transition much, i only told my close friends and some people) bc it would make trans people feel less safe with me.
I still dont feel like a woman, and feel disconnected from womanhood, but i also dont want to transition into other genders, at least for now. For now i'll just call myself female or afab bc thats what i am for sure lol! Thank you for making this video and expanding many peoples view
i usually dont leave comments but i just wanted to say that this is exactly the video i needed at this time. I'm at the very beginning stages of my transition and suddenly having to start dealing not only my own doubts and insecurities but my family's has been very overwhelming. The idea of detransitioners has always been a source of anxiety for me, as i kept fearing that i might end up regretting my transition, and dealing with that insecurity in a productive way on my own was proving quite difficult. I recently watched a video by mia mulder where she says that the possibility of detransition was comforting for her when she was just starting because that meant she could go back whenever she wanted to, so i had been trying to shift my way on thinking to that as well. the idea that transition can be a fluid thing and that detransitioning doesn't mean you were/are any less trans has made me feel so much more comfortable going for the tings i want without this overwhelming fear of regret. you just put all my thoughts on it into words and provided a way forward from here, so thank you so much.
i just realized my comment was very "me" centric so i ought to mention that a trans person speaking up for detrans people and starting to shift the narrative to highlight their stories too is invaluable, so thank you for that as well.
Oh my god, incredible video!! I was putting off watching it even though it had been in my recommended for a while because I was terrified I'd come out of it questioning myself, or wanting to detransition (or more accurately, not finish transitioning), but I'm SO glad I watched it. I feel more confident in my decision and more secure than ever before.
Not because I'm now SURE that I'll never detransition, but because I didn't know there was a possibility that I might detransition and still have a future ahead of me, and still be able to find a place for myself and find happiness in wherever my gender identity ends up.
I'm coming out of this video with the realization that, no matter what, there is a positive future out there for me. Thank you
If I was born in the current space I think there is a good chance I would have transitioned and detrasitioned in my early teens and 20s. I saw feminity as a weakness and a negative thing for so long. I also know someone who transitioned almost 20 years ago now (who I knew back then). I think need to explore our personal qualms with our relationship to our gender/sex without the need to put that label on it. It was that same trans person who made me feel comfortable with my own gender. I didn't have to let feminine define every attribute about me, I can pick what parts of me are feminine and what parts are not.
38:25 agree with being accepting detranspeople, and not saying the "I'm cool with" phrase, but i don't think they are the same thing. Transphobia is hurtful and harmful. Making being gay your whole personality, trans people being showy, isn't harmful and hurtful.
Don't think it's the same.
But your point still stands.
Great thought out, introspective, empathetic, understanding video👏
It's such a shame that we can't have more nuanced conversations about this. In a way, I detransitioned- questioned my gender at 16, went back in the closet at 17 because I thought i had to be manly mcmannerson to be a trans man- yet over time, I still had gender feels and came out as non binary at 21 then as a trans man at 23. Even though I'm not a woman, I don't regret not transitioning as a teen. Transitioning as an adult meant I had money and independence I couldn't have had as a teen, plus I had therapists who, even with their lack of experience with LGBT people, totally supported me transitioning and didn't see me as a woman. Gender is so messy and I still have some insecurities that took time and self reflection to heal that my medical transition couldn't fix. Even if I woke up one day and didn't want to live as a man anymore, I'd still love my body and what T and surgery has done for me and what more could anyone ask for?
I totally relate to this! I also questioned my gender and then decided not to transition at 16 and feel like the years I spent thereafter living as a woman were invaluable and that transitioning as an adult made everything go way smoother for me. Transition wasn't right for me then, but is right for me now. And so of course it makes sense to me that others might experience this but flipped (find transition helped but then didn't and go on to detransition)
@@arthur_rockwell yeah, I don't really think of it as detransitioning but I just can't picture my life if I hadn't had the experiences I had during that in between time. I went to college, traveled, fell in love, made friends, and while there were hard times, I also feel like I'm a better man with less of a tendency towards toxic masculinity because of them.
im questioning transition right now with the only person in my life i can really talk to about this being my cis therapist. it sucks because i was hesitant to talk about doubts and nuances of my identity with her because of a fear of being denied medical transition in the future. its a very slow process where i live especially before 18 and ive felt like i need to be cautious or i will have to transition later in life and have a less "stealth" (and therefore acceptable because of the place im in) experience. i think the best thing i can do is be open with her to prevent transition regret :) i know this will make me a less acceptable trans person, but it may be what it best and truest to me. im quite comfortable in my own perception of myself when i am able to dress as i like and when im binding (which is a whole other logistical issue oml binding takes a toll on me. so top surgery? potentially?). its other people that often make me uncomfortable. it gives me comfort that one day i will likely be able to find a circle that makes me feel comfortable. i would like to have my own personal nirvana free from gender, because i know i will never live to see gender abolition. this is exactly what queer people have always done. still, i think sometimes if i could handle existing in my current space as a rebellion it might make a larger impact for trans and gnc people in the future.
i know that if gender is a construct so is transness and my own identity. that makes me much more comfortable in my gender not existing in a vacuum as i thought it was meant to.
im curious to see myself approach the age where cis boys are moreso referred to as "men". im 13 and feel very comfortable with "boy", but my relationship with "man" is quite fluid. are most 13 year old cis boys and binary trans guys comfortable with "man"? i try to compare it to woman and girl as im afab, and find i was never comfortable with woman. but im trans, so of course not.
im also involved with feminism. my relationship with oppression is unique. i blast bikini kill songs with the word "girl" but then look at a million propositions for the fourth wave of feminism and gender abolition happening together. its a dream but i feel like im contradicting and disrespecting work that has already been done. im scared of terfs and i dont really understand them. i want to be involved in feminism and gender abolition and i want to talk to cis women about it.
it's difficult to explain myself to any cis person. its still hard for me to accept that i most likely wont be able to be all that close with my parents.
i still see something very boyish when i look in the mirror. its the same boy i saw when i couldnt use that word a couple years ago pushing my chest down and standing up tall.
i wish i could have the confidence in myself to be the acceptable, binary trans person that i could explain to others, but i dont think i have that kind of certainty.
i think trans healthcare needs to be less binary on the road to gender abolition.
thank you so much for making these videos. i cant show an adequate level of gratitude for making this space. i feel less alone. youre such a role model to me being a transmasc in academia with all of these ideas about these struggles that ive experienced. i hope to do what you do some day.
This is so refreshing. I feel like discourse on gender often ends up being so divisive and performative- people saying things only to back up their group and not thinking about things based on the evidence or listening to other experiences/evidence. I feel like this video really comes from a good place and a place of learning and educating, not trying to push one narrative dogmatically. You brought up some things I had thought of but don't say outwardly, and other things I hadn't thought of. It would be so good if people felt able to talk about gender and people's decisions in life in a truly neutral and evidence-based way. Love the video man.
Through this video, I’ve finally come to understand why some people go by he/him despite identifying as a lesbian or the endless amount of different ways of identifying as non-binary/trans masc but still feeling like they belong in the lesbian community. I learned a bunch of other stuff too, this video was extremely insightful, but I’ve finally come to be more empathetic when it comes to understanding non-binary or he/him lesbians.
Thank you, from a cis girl, for lending the nuance and complexity this topic deserves, and for being so open and understanding towards cis people as discussions around gender tend to be divisive for both sides (though trans people have more reasons to be hurt and closed off). I’m glad the internet exists so that people can learn from channels like yours. I know I’ll definitely be using this video if my friends or family have trouble understanding these topics.
I feel really lucky to have found good communities online and not really see a lot of negative unproductive discourse about transness/detransition. I also feel like as a non-binary person I'm glad I didn't just jump into medical transition right when I started questioning my gender. Transitioning and de transitioning both count as changing your body/pronouns/presentation etc to better align with your identity. That is something we should, as a supposedly open minded community, try to be supportive of whatever that looks like for someone.
You talked a lot about transitioning in terms of bodies but you didn't bring up people's internal sense of their gender identity as much. I'm wondering if many detransitioners experience the sense that their actual gender identity has changed? (Not saying that this is something that does not or cannot happen regardless of transition status.)
Anyway, thanks so much for this super informative video! It really helped me as a non binary person who has never transitioned who has always felt confused and challenged by this topic.
As someone who started testosterone after getting out of my depression (although I still have bad anxiety), this video was actually very validating :) Also, I'm glad you clarified the 1% thing, I really had to idea and it's incredibly important.
This is very informative! You have a great teaching style that's full of empathy. I'm a cis women but have worked in mental health clinics who serve LGBTQ+ communities. I would share this video with co-workers to help them better understand this topic.
New viewer here. This is the most nuanced take on detransition I've come across on this website. Thank you so much! I have to admit I tend to go into the discourse of detransitioning in a defensive mode from the get-go because there is so much transphobia in all the other spaces where I've seen it addressed.
The only point I would challenge is the one for having empathy for detransitioner who are now backing transphobic policies and making it harder for trans people to...well...live.
In my mind, it would be a similar comparison to someone getting cancer and everyone around them encouraging them to get treatment that works most of the time and because it didn't work for them now they want to block other cancer patients from getting care.
*I'm not comparing transness = cancer. I am saying dysphoria, depression, etc = cancer in this less than perfect metaphor
Great video! SUBBED!
Aw thank you for this kind comment! The question about empathy for transphobic detransitioners is a hard one. I suppose what I mean is I often see trans people more quick to attack those detransitioners (say Kira Bell) than the cishet people who really hold the power (her lawyers etc.). And that we can disagree with the policies the detransitioners support while also holding empathy for them
What a well put together video. So glad that this conversation is starting to be had in good faith and with empathy. (And from a RUclips community perspective, such a relief that Blair White et al do not have the sole ownership of discourse on this topic.)
Ahaha i also saw and wasn't a huge fan of that Blaire White video! Thanks for the comment ☺️
Than you ❤️ I’m not trans myself, but I think watching your video has made me understand so much more about the complexities of human gender experience…
I appreciate this video a lot, there’s often black and white thinking surrounding detransition. That having detransitioned you can only be truly a mistaken cis person. I haven’t transitioned yet and i’m not sure to what extent I will. I have only came out to some people and changed my name and pronouns with some people. I am constantly plagued with doubts about my identity because I don’t want to be a cis man. The more I reflect on this the more I understand my own beliefs affect how i see myself, as a person more than say a man or a woman or a nonbinary person. But because the world is very binary and likes to split the world between men and women, I find I cannot exist in a completely authentic way as simply a person who enjoys looking semi masculine. People will always try to label me as a woman, a butch lesbian, a trans man, etc. When really i would be happiest going by my chosen name and pronouns, dressing how I want and just simply being a person outwith gender. Since people won’t perceive me this way it makes it hard to decide how i should go on with life, would transition be better or not? It is complicated. But anyway, I really appreciate you talking about this
I feel like a lot of the conflation between detransitioning and TERFs occurs due to two things. One is that TERFs have incorporated the stories of detransitioners so crucially into their arguments that it makes attempting to discuss the topic almost impossible in online forums due to black-and-white thinking, or that it can be seen as a TERF dogwhistle. The second is that detransitioning circles tend to tolerate transphobia from their members because everyone broadly agrees that feelings about once being trans and transitioning should be respected, or they agree with some/all of it themselves. The issue arises when feelings and opinions start to leak beyond the bounds of self-expression and begin to shape into opinions on how *other* people should be living.
Even without the latter half happening, the mere tolerating of transphobia has unfortunately tended to help conflate the topic of detrans to TERFs. Case in point: I followed a twitter account where detransitioners could submit their own life stories, because I had seen basically nothing about the subject online, and this seemed like a good starting point. The people running it made a post about how they did not curate the submissions for transphobia because they didn't feel comfortable being the arbiter of the detrans experience. A little while later, I'm finding myself blocked by tons of accounts I've never interacted with before - it drove me fucking bonkers. It turned out, that twitter account was added to one of the bigger anti-trans blocklists on twitter, and thus anyone following it also got hit too. It made me really sad that the account got so quickly lumped in with TERFs because there were many personal accounts on there who did not regret their transition, or who discussed wrestling with detransitioning because they knew how black-and-white the general opinion on detransitioners is in the found family they'd created. It's already very difficult to access resources or information on detransitioning that hadn't been tainted by TERFs pushing an agenda, so to see a relatively neutral account get hit really pained me.
Thank you so much for making this video!! You did a great job explaining everything in detail too. I am trans myself and I really hate it when trans people talk about detrans and then just end up attacking them and/or undermining their experience. I can absolutely see how detrans people are attracted to the gender critical movement, especially when we as a community dont treat them with empathy. I have strongly felt now for a while that we need to bridge the gap between the trans and detrans communities and it means so much to me that you made a video that helps with exactly that. I really hope more people in the community take this approach in the future!
Aw thank you for this comment! I feel exactly the same.
That's exactly what I've been thinking about. I'm new to LGBTIQ+ community as I just recently admitted to myself that I'm a lesbian. Anyway I want to support everyone in community and seeing how many lesbian and bisexual girls claim themselves gender critical makes me sooo upset. Right now I'm figuring things out. I follow some trans people on RUclips and watch stories from detransitioners, too. Yet quite a lot of them state gender critical ideas as they were badly treated be T community after starting detransitioning.
So, I'm very delightful to see trans people talking about real statistic and caring about detrans ones. It gives me hope.
Lots of detrans people openly and willingly lend their voices and platform for "gender critical" (let's call it what it is transphobia) views. There is little to no push back by the detrans group for these views and platforming and you want trans people to just bridge the gap? Even someone recommended by this channel "Issa Ismail" made a video where the top comments were openly transphobic nonsense that she didn't push back against, especially when she want responding to other comments. When a platform becomes a tool for your oppressors to weaponise against you, it is the duty of the person to whom that platform belongs to, to examine why that is happening. No wonder detrans people are attacked, they're so willing to collaborate with transphobes.
@@anastasiashpyt except most gay and bisexual people aren't trans exclusionary. It sounds like you got into a filter bubble
Thank you for this video. I'm a non binary neurodivergent person and am definitely one of those people struggling with trauma, body image issues and stuff like that.
Your video helped me to go from "I can only pursue X, Y and Z if I'm 100% sure I'm trans" to "I need to listen to what will be most likely to make me happy and healthy"
Also I really think It's such a shame detransitioned people get so much hate, from the queer community and queerphobes alike. We really need to do a better job to not alienate people that have already been through enough bullshit.
i just recently accepted myself as nb (I'm in my late twenties), and a huge part of me taking so long was the Fear of medical transition, the restrictions it would impose on me, and from that, the fear of not being "trans" enough, of being one of those that would give up half way through, a "tender".
i genuinely believe that if I had come out earlier, I would've been a detransitioner by now. The amount of times I explained to people my gender troubles and their answer was "if you're serious about it, just go on HRT".
I also love that you talk about the murky waters of dysphoria and dysmorphia, taking the time to detangle those might be hard, but so important
I think its time we change the way we talk these topics.
This is such a compassionate take on de-transitioning!
Just started watching, adding to my watch list, loving what I've seen after five minutes. I'm not trans but have trans acquaintances. They are awesome people and I just want to support them no matter what. I think the trans movement is so eager to prove that they are legitimate that they are suppressing stories like yours which certainly happen.
I think it's OK to acknowledge that some people will live happier, better lives as trans people, some people will start their journey before realising it was not for them (and if they never do, they'll never know) and others will just make outright mistakes.
I think that the only thing that matters is that we give these people a safe environment to do that and not have to deal with any bullshit. If you feel supported by your friends and the world at large, the whole experience should be entirely positive, regardless of whether you transition and live happily ever after or you transition and detransition.
Anyway, thanks to everyone who read this comment, hope you're doing well :)
This is a powerful message, kind and gentle with a understanding that there are so many roads within the trans community. No one shoe fits all 💜
When I hear “detransition” I think of this one lady who is a hardcore terf who claims she only transitioned to escape sexism (a gender critical terf talking point) . She does that whole “stolen daughter” “just a lesbian” bs too. I do hope people understand that people should feel free to explore their gender expression or their going to another gender identity that wasn’t what they were assigned at birth.
wow, i almost never comment on videos, but this is seriously amazing!! really appreciate the fresh perspective on a rarely talked about trans related topic! definitely deserves to blow up, hope this comment helps the algorithm do its thing.
Aww thank you!! I still haven't figured out the youtube algorithm lolol (had a prosthetic video randomly blow up after a couple weeks of being uploaded 🤷♂️) but I sure hope the same
this reminded me of a quote that i had written in my journal a few years ago, “gender is like a color, it is on a spectrum. you cannot quantify a color. it may look different next to other colors but it is still the same isolated no matter the environment”
i don’t necessarily agree with everything in this now, i think that gender, like the self, is ever changing but it comforted me at the time so it might help someone else :)
this is the conclusion I came to at 18 when starting my transition after watching several detrans videos. all I knew for sure then was that I wouldn't regret it. I now identify as the example lesbian from the beginning of your video. everyone should watch this before transitioning
all I will say is carefully parsing detrans content can be helpful in deciding whether or not to transition, though you are right that it can be detrimental
Thank you for talking about this in depth and citing your sources where appropriate. I am all in favor of anything that lets people have a more supportive environment in which to explore their gender and make the decision that’s right for them, regardless of what that decision might be.
The “never trans to begin with” discourse is also very harmful. I know several trans people who had temporarily detransitioned but then retransitioned several years later, and if they’d been convinced that they were “never trans” then they’d almost certainly just be miserable now.
My own social transition has been more of a random stumble than a straight-line path, and while my medical transition was absolutely the right thing for me the social side of things has been way more difficult to pin down.
I've had a lot of complex feelings around my gender and have been very scared of detransitioning, enough that I had a full mental breakdown when I got my first appointment at the gender clinic. I think this is why it's important that you go through a process and talk to a gender therapist. Of course you could just lie if you really want to, but for me actually talking about my doubt rather than pushing it away out of fear has helped me understand myself much better. I thought I was nb years ago when first thinking about gender, then thought I was a trans guy for a little while, and now I've actually come back to identifying as enby and I feel better then I ever have.
this video was amazing to watch. in the middle of it, i was feeling super weird and bad for some reason and i guess i just never wanted detransition to be something that i feel i need to do (i still don't think i need to do it) but then i watched to the end and your last few points helped me out a lot. of course, I think that suing the NHS is a very bad thing to do but i understand the thought process a bit more now. i also am less worried about whether i'll detransition or not because i've realised that it doesn't matter a whole lot because gender isn't the only thing in life and isn't actually that important so i should just do what feels right instead of worrying about what box I'm falling into because doing that, in the past, has made me super unhappy. i think that i will continue to identify as non-binary but then again that is a very broad spectrum so i don't feel restricted by it at all.
I'm so glad the algorithm showed me your video in the suggestions! Detransitioning is so much more nuanced than the discourse leads one to believe, but you brought up so many relevant points. I just wish governments would fund more research into trans questions rather than tighten trans healthcare budgets whenever trans issues pop up into the mainstream and become heavily politicized.
great video!! loved the marriage analogy :D
personally i feel like sometimes the transition OR detransition as the only 2 ways of labeling people's gender experience medically or socially can make the discussion of things harder. Mostly because some experiences are inherently hard to categorize between the 2, and some people may feel pushed to identify their experience with one or the other without being super comfy. Same with the you are either trans or cis (or nb since some consider it different than being trans). Like, labels are amazing! they can be very useful and very important to people! that's why they exist afterall. But these labels are made for very subjective nonconcrete concepts, that can mean different things to different people and can be hard for some to wrap their heads around enough to be comfortable with using them. Like, i believe a great number of people that are weary of detransitioners and their stories, are only so because transitioning is put in opposite of transitioning. They may understand that gender can be fluid and change over time, and what feels right and comfortable now might not later, and all of that is completely natural and ok, but still feel icky because it feels like a "us vs them" situation.
Like idk what i would be??? I came out as a trans man many years ago, and did get hrt for around 5 years, during those years at first i wanted top surgery and was very sure about it, but as my chest reduced with the fat redistribution, i felt i didn't needed it so i didn't end up getting it (i was on a super long waiting list of like 4 years but ended up saying no thank you!). Then last year i stopped testosterone, because i felt i may not need it anymore and wanted to see how i would feel without it. I sorta missed my periods in a way. I didn't identify as a woman, i just wanted to see how i felt. I ended up feeling great! i love the permanent effects testosterone had on me, and i can still pass as a man which makes me happy! but sadly my chest dysphoria came back, because my chest became as big as it originally was before hrt and is quite noticeable. So now i am saving up for top surgery, and hoping to get it in the next few years. I also found out this year that i do not identify as much as a man anymore, i feel more in the trans masculine side of non binary, man-adjacent is how i like to explain it. So does this make me a detransitioner?? I changed labels, but i do not feel "less trans", nor do i feel like i am not trans anymore. I just changed labels, and i tried something else for my body. It's confusing and not helpful for me honestly to think about it haha and i feel like maybe a lot of people feel similar, even if they "go back to being cis". Is just label changes, all of it. And trying new things for your body to improve your quality of life hopefully.
anyway sorry for the rambling xDDD some concepts are just hard for my brain to wrap itself around. Not that i necessarily need to apply a label to my experience anyway. But i do feel like that would mess with studies and such :P people like me. Like those studies about sexuality, some people just don't feel strongly with any one label, and rather not take any or take some that are just "close" even if it is not the same as what the study parameters meant those to signify. Hard to study people!