The History of PROG in 60 albums | Part 5 | Prog or Progressive? | 1990-99
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- Опубликовано: 19 сен 2024
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Andy is a drummer, producer and educator. He has toured the world with rock legend Robert Plant and played on classic prog albums by Frost and IQ.
As a drum clinician he has played with Terry Bozzio, Kenny Aronoff, Thomas Lang, Marco Minneman and Mike Portnoy.
He also teaches drums privately and at Kidderminster College
Just to save time with me replying to many of the comments here, if you can just imagine this reply as an answer to your comment (where applicable) 'Next time I do this I will simply read out a list of proggy bands so every is happy that their favourite band was read out. I apologise for not mentioning (insert your favourute band here) on this specific video.' Thank you for commenting
Mine is Ozric Tentacles. :)
Oh man, it's your channel Andy, don't get sucked into the "I must please everyone" mistake - you'll never make objective, vital and valid videos if you do! This is a fantastic series and I'm agreeing with those I know and exploring those that I don't! The electronic scene in the 90s was exactly where the innovation and excitement was - The Orb, Aphex Twin, FSOL, early KLF, System 7, Roni Size, Massive Attack, Square Pusher...... these are the artists being truly innovative.
@@JimNewstead Jim, you are on point. Actually, I love it when Andy gets angry and decides he's sticking with a point because it's his channel and he is right. I get a kick out of it. Your right, he doesn't have answer to anyone. However, I was surprised when he commented on my comments. I"m sure he has better things to do. I do like going back and forth with other followers.
I hope he takes your advise. I know you've been doing this a while. I've enjoyed your channel as well...
Paul Craddick, former drummer of the band Enchant.
"To my mind, there's an interesting, rough-and-ready division in the world of "progressive" music (a category-name I don't like, in any event) between the more avante-garde/experimental or "free-spirited" wing, and, say, the more -- how to describe it? -- "working-in-a-kind-of-tradition" approach, which could be described in terms of certain dominant characteristics that *almost* sum to a kind of "formula": long songs, working in odd times (and working in them in a definite way), conveying an "epic" feel, addressing "deep" topics lyrically, employing certain sounds, timbres, and textures, and so on. Though I'm certainly guilty of having worked in terms of the latter approach, my heart is definitely with the former -- to me that's where the real "action" is.
A simple way to illustrate the difference is to name a few bands that might plausibly fall under each category. In the latter, I'll put bands like Spock's Beard, Dream Theater, IQ, Kansas, Gentle Giant, post-Gabriel-pre-Abacab Genesis, post-Close-to-the-Edge Yes, etc. In the former, I'd put King Crimson (esp. from "Red" onwards), Gabriel solo, much of Rush, Radiohead, latter Porcupine Tree, and other more unlikely borderline cases -- like The Police, U2, Our Lady Peace, and other bands which don't so much exemplify a genre or sound as go to define one of their own (Primus or Rage Against the Machine even). As an aside, I think it's an interesting exercise to ponder where Marillion might go (or perhaps at different points they belong in different places?!)."
LOL
Glad to see you bring up “ IQ. “ I have their remarkable debut album, but I’ve heard some encouraging reviews on the “ Ever “ album as well. Gotta check that one out. And I couldn’t agree more that “ Ok Computer “ is a prog masterpiece. But I must give extra kudos to Porcupine Tree. Their 90s material is about as prog like as it gets, showing their heavy influence from Pink Floyd. Especially “ The Sky Moves Sideways “ album. I could go on all day about that one.
Love that you included Echolyn...one of the best from that era!
I think it'd be fine to leave a heater on! 🙂 The noise wasn't all that distracting.
Mr. Bungle's influences were many. I also think of John Zorn's "Naked City" as a very strong influence on their sound. Mike Patton also played with "Naked City".
Straight off the bat …. I have that Bungle album and at the time it blew my mind despite coming from the more funk/fusion end ‘relative to yourself’,( with the exception of Genesis who are just the highest of the high).
Your musical evolution seems to almost mirror my own but with subtle variation.
This video series is manna for my prog loving soul. Bless you Andy. Top notch as always.
Great video, Andy. Love seeing the Mr Bungle album. They're definitely my favorite band from the 90s - it's hard to think of them as prog per se because of how much deconstructing they do and the fact that they sound nothing like Yes or Genesis. Those are the last bands that come to mind when thinking of Mr Bungle; however, as you're arguing pretty persuasively here, prog/progressive means taking things into new areas, not just a retread of past glory. It would be interesting to see deeper explorations of some of the bands: Bungle, Squarepusher, Radiohead. Cheers!
I tried to balance between the truly progressive and the generis prog peddlars,
1994 - Downward Spiral - NIN
Good one, as usual. Thanks for braving the cold. (When we were working in an unheated video studio I recall we used a quartz heater, which was silent, to survive the 50F temps.) I was a fan of the short-lived '90's art rock supergroup called Channel Light Vessel that included Roger Eno, Jill St. John (Dream Academy), ambient + percussion player Laraaji, with the great Bill Nelson (Red Noise, Be-Bop Deluxe). Curious readers should investigate their CD *Excellent Spirts.*
Brilliant. Really kicking open the doors of prog, Andy. When you mentioned Tortoise I also thought of Godspeed You! Black Emperor and other bands that emerged a bit later on the Constellation label. Dawn Of The Replicants were a big proggy band for me and I think their first batch of EPs got 9/10 reviews in the NME.
Spot on, I've been saying these things for years, nice to hear someone else talking like this, especially a tutor.
Impossible to mention everyone in a short history. Future Sound of London's Lifeforms, The Orb's Uforb and DJ Shadow's Endtroducing were the big sellers in electronic prog from this period that deserve a mention though.
Will Common's Electric Circus get a mention on the next episode? Not a big seller but what an album.
This series has so far been, by far, the best history of prog on RUclips yet. Excellent 👏👍
Thankd Stuart...I must admit there is a bit more 'normal' prog on thje next episodes...
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer I'm sure, Porcupine Tree I presume, that's logical. 👍
My copy of Ever was given to me by Paul Cook while we were working on a school musical. For many years we were (I still am) VMTs in Mid Sussex.
Oooo ….. The Soft Bulletin… needs to be there
I like what you do, reliving my own music journey.
❤it. I get called out all the time for saying Massive Attack, Portishead, Goldie, and Aphex Twin are progressive. Of course, that is from people who only see 70s prog as progressive. Sure, the virtuosity isn't spectacular, but the bands are pushing production envelopes, experimenting with new tools and techniques, and looking to make something new. Would love to see where they fall on the Prog-o-meter. I’d guess these would be in the 75-85% range.
Yes I think Aphex Twin especially are successors to such as Gong/Hillage. Been revisiting them over the last couple of years and been pleasantly surprised.
The Metheny album referred to might be Still Life (Talking), from 1986/7.
Thank you Andy for the great content. And for introducing people to amazing music. It’s great to know that there are other people with the same range of musical taste out there. McLaughlin, Buckethead, Mr Bungle, Iron Maiden. Keep up the great work my friend. My question, however, is quite off topic. What is the drumming technique called when say Art Blakey hits about six rim shots separate from the actual rhythm of the song (seemingly)? It always makes me grin. Cheers mate!
Not losing me with Goldie. Full on Prog ….
You’ve just gone Squarepusher …. !!!!!
I give up , we’re basically in full agreement!!!
A very thoughtful and sometimes startling list. I was sorry you didn't use the Progometer on these to see where they fall on the scale.
No arguments from me. I was pretty sure the Orb were going to get at least a mention - and they did.
My recommendation:
Nomeansno - Why Do They Call Me Mr. Happy? (1993) - I think this band were hugely influential at the heavier end of Prog. Early Math Rock, Jazz/Hardcore band. They toured extensively through the 1990's across Canada, the U.S. and Europe - reminding the punks what virtuosity meant. This might not be their most popular album, but it has raw power and epic long form grooves to spare.
I'm a huge fan of what you call the "cliché" contemporary prog bands, there's a reason that 70s sound became cliché and I don't believe we've really exhausted the idiom. That said, I've seen enough of your videos (I've been bingeing) to know those probably weren't going to be the bands I'd hear about in this video. I came to be surprised. Was glad to hear you mention Squarepusher because I'd totally forgotten all about them.
Seems like you'd be a Venetian Snares enjoyer.
What about the celtic influenced prog bands who came in the 90's? Bands like Iona,Mostly Autumn, Karnataka and Magenta were mixed celtic folk/Clannad with PF,Renaissance,Kate Bush, Yes and JT. They all had great female vocalists.
I have drummed for Magenta and nearly played for Karnataka
What I'm learning from this series is was much more into prog than I thought. I liked some prog rock and metal in the 80s and early 90s but hadn't realised how influential prog was on other music I was listening to.
That Mr Bungle album was and still is one of my all time favourite albums. I loved Radiohead from when Creep was released as a single and have always said that they're at least prog adjacent. I was very pleasantly surprised to see Dillinger mentioned. They're another of my favourite bands.
Roger Waters - Amused to Death. 1993. Awesome album.
You can tell which generation I'm from as I've never heard of any of these 90's bands. I've tried listening to your featured albums, Andy, but so much of it seems rather harsh and without melody to me. Scorching metal guitar and shouty vocals just don't hit the spot for me.
I love the mellow tunes in Pink Floyd, Yes or Genesis, even though my old Dad thought they were tuneless. Go figure.
However, that IQ album does hit the spot for me. I can hear both the Genesis and the Camel in there but the latter vibe is so strong that it could be Andy Latimer on guitar. I saw Camel live three times in the 70's so anything that sounds like them is right up my street. I will check out IQ more fully so thanks for the introduction. 🙂
Hopefully 1999’s is Unter the Boardwalk- Robert Plant Live .
It’s conceptual Continuity is without peer’s
So any genre sufficiently ‘advanced’ is prog ?
I knew you’d stir the waters with this, ( did predict it, … check it out).
You’re essentially correct and if any dissenters disagreed they’d end up agreeing at end of thesis).
Enjoying this and glad to see you included Goldie's album. I count this alongside "Maxinquaye" by Tricky and Portishead's album with "Glory Box" on (whose name escapes me) as somewhere that my love of prog took me while music left me behind in the 90s.
Interesting to have seen where prog has come from, but as for the present, are you going to say where the music is progressing to?
The term "Prog" seems to be though of in two different ways , and people tend to choose one of them when they're trying to determine wether a band/album is prog or not:
1. If it's progressive/fresh, at that particular point in musical history when the album was released.
2. If the musical content bear resemblence of the tonal characteristics of the bands [insert your band list here] from the golden age of the 70's.
I think you, Andy, welcome both groups on this channel, but I get the feeling that where your heart lies, is in number 1. 🙂
Yeah, I usually label the first kind "truly progressive". But there's also seems to be a third kind (at least), being the generic "prog metal" or "modern prog" that has to incorporate awkward time signatures/polyrythm and intricate instrumental parts that weren't really compulsory within the 70's prog (although some 70's bands certainly invented those ideas). I've noticed this understanding of "prog" from people unfamiliar with 70's stuff but really into modern prog (metal). When they hear some of the 70's prog classics their first reaction is "this isn't prog is it?" Since it wasn't full of those signature features they came to identify as "prog".
Thievery Corporation?
[Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead is some kind of a Kerry Minnear of the 90s]
Did you consider the '80s crimson albums?
Yes
Camels Rajaz 1999 ... brilliant
In the 90s, at least one year from 94 must be kept free for Robert Fripp, the father of reinvention.
More Prog isn't possible.
94 Sylvian/Fripp
95 King Crimson
Another great video with a lot of debating. Thanks for taking a different route than the generic prog bands, I get how you're going. Wow! Tortoise, I didn't think anyone in the UK would even know them.
Now for some of my thoughts, we all want to put our 2 cents in.
1990 Jane's Addiction's Ritual De Lo Habitual. They really weren't grunge, they were from Cali and Three Days is amazing...
1995 Smashing Pumpkins's Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, it's "The Wall" of the 90s
Final note, you mentioned Sigur Ros at the end, lumped in with a bunch of neo prog bands, they are NO generic prog band. They are truly unique from Iceland. Thom Yorke sights them as an influence. Their album "Takk" from 2005 should, at least be mentioned. Check out the song "Saeglopur". You will hear what I mean.
As a side note, I've checked out Rain, no joking, really impressive. Great guitarist, he can give Polyphia a run for their money. The keyboardist's voice is very good, he harmonizes well with the guitarist. And the drummer is not too bad...
Hi Phillip. Enjoyed just reading your comment here. Totally agree about 'Melon Collie' ... and enjoy your clear passion for the wonderfully unpretentious beauty of Sigur Ros. A recommendation, if I may, the 'Osty / Thistles' album, by female Polish prog-folk trio 'Sutari' (2017) which I think you might enjoy. I don't speak Polish btw, so I don't know what they're singing about!! haha ... but it still moves me.
@@SpookyLuvCookie I'll give it a go. I don't speak Icelandic or Hopelandic (Jonsi's made up language),
Three Days is an amazing song. #1 for me on the Jane's Addiction list.
Would love to throw Don Cab in to the mix...
Future Sound Of London with their albums Lifeforms and Dead Cities, both concept albums, could have made the list, plus their even more prog orientated spin off Amorphous Androdgenous.
You had me up until the 90s. Your 90s seemed like a Prog related video. Your most subjective decade so far. The 90's saw an infusion of Scandinavian bands and psychedelic. Bands like ÄNGLAGÅRD, Porcupine Tree, Ozric Tentacles, Ankedoten, and Opeth. How many albums has Andy mentioned outside the UK, Canada, and USA? Just saying...
His reasoning seems almost sublime to me,( he’s explicitly giving you the reference points and connection to his overarching narrative).
@@davidwylde8426 Yeah, I dig it. Yet, he ignored the new Scandinavian scene which blossomed like a sublime lotus flower. He didn't discus the birth of the extreme prog metal scene featuring bands like Opeth, Death, Gorguts, and Edge of Sanity. I'm not into death growls, but I must admit the above bands brought new things to the prog genre.
Andy mentioned IQ's Ever album as an album that glanced back at the 70's, but neglected the highest ranking Progarchives album since the mid 70s- ÄNGLAGÅRD- Hybris. Another Scandinavian band. But hey, Andy was in IQ.
Porcupine Tree ( Arguably the biggest prog band in the world since 1990) recorded a series of psychedelic prog albums during the 90s. So did Ozric Tentacles. Ozric Tentacles merged dub, electronic, world, jazz fusion, and space rock. Plus, Ozric Tentacles were integral in starting prog music festivals. These movements were huge in shaping Prog in the 90's and beyond.
I get Andy is demonstrating the influence of prog beyond progressive rock borders. Bands like NIN, Talk Talk, and Death Can Dance fall into that category. However the name of Andy's series is the History of Prog...not "Bands Influenced By Prog" or "Prog Adjacent Albums".
@@JohnnyRecently I’ve just liked your comment, because there’s nothing wrong with what you’ve said. It’s just that he can’t include every deviation from every possible narrative. And as someone who’s played in a band that has supported Porcupine Tree and had at least some of their fans approach me post gig and say we were better,( we weren’t but that’s my point), I feel my opinion is as valid as any journalistic or even fan consensus should be … or even more so once we test the validity of said view point.
Andy has framed his musical arc extremely well given the limitations of having a life and doing this within constraints,( one would assume).
Oh and Oz Tentacles were great but Steve H and Gong had pretty much mapped out most of that territory many years earlier
Opeth and Porcupine Tree will be mentioned.I think the generic prog peddlars that clog up the scene today hadn't quite got their act together in the 90s. In real terms Anglagard and Ankedoten are side notes in the history of Prog. I love the Ozrics and saw them quite recently, they too, however play a very smaill part in the history of prog. To give the game away, I have Moon Safari and Wobbler coming up which hopefully will represent Scandanvian [rog and Opeth and Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson will be heavily represented.
@@davidwylde8426 Supported Porcupine Tree. How cool is that? David, I don't doubt that your opinion is as valid as any journalist. Your writing style demonstrates depth and open mindedness. Definite Gong/Oz connection. Good call, David.
Andy's a smart man. I dig his philosophical tangents. That said, I don't remember Andy mentioning a prog band outside the UK, USA, Canada sphere... so far. Perhaps I underestimated the importance of Andy's English aesthetic gradient on his progometer?
Obviously, any music genre can be progressive in a general sense, and share common influenced and uninfluenced elements from other genres. This can tempt a circular argument and the attribution of an album to a specific genre when maybe it is more something else, or needs to be, or is even its own individual category given the originality demonstrated by the artist. Many if not most artists have multiple influences within their defined genre. To call some post 1990 albums progressive rock may be too vague and lack meaning to account for, and capture the variety and development out there since the 1970's. On an intuitive level, DSOTM and OK Computer to me make more sense described as art rock.
Digable Planets (Blow out comb). You always seem to forget their name haha.
I do...and I love this album and listen to it regularly (unlike many of the prog albums |I', talking about) but I never can remember their name!
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer their debut album is also very good: Reachin' 👌🏻
The Roots is a band you will also probably like .. I do believe I've heard you mention them once or twice if I'm not mistaken.
@@richard8417 point me to
the best. I own an album, but the only track on my playlist ends up being Break You Off
TNT !!!!!!!!!
Stop it !!!
You have to hear No Protection remix by Mad Professor, I like it better than the original.
Mr Bungle was great live. The first album is produced by Zorn and He used Patton on a bunch of his vocal (screaming) albums.
"Generic prog" is an oxymoron, yet it seems to be some purists' definition of prog. Even the word "genre" should be handled with care.
Coming up to 2000. There's one group who began in 2002; I'm not going to say their name but they manage to pull off the feat of harking back to the 70s without falling into "the Generesis trap". (I just invented that word.)
I bet you can work out who I mean.