Excellent ! Love the general infos at the end, like : "Most vocal mics need ~35 / 40db of gain, Guitars ~25, etc". These general cases are great to know, please keep doing these "most case" scenarios. It provides just general rules, or thoughts to keep in mind, and easy to remember.
@@AttawayAudio Thank YOU ! I'm about to sonorize a gig next week, and I'm currently watching all your videos (even tho it's 3am here haha), and taking notes. Your content will help a ton you have no idea. (I'm on your Vocal Reverb & Delay videos right now, they're so great. You go into details, numbers like feedback percentage, etc. Love it ! Please keep going ! You rock !) Have a nice day sir, I go back into it :)
Thank you so much for sharing so much knowledge in the audio field with such funny and effective cartoons! I could literally see the faces getting sprayed! lol 😂
Vocal mics about 35-40dB gain? :o Woah, that's hot! I've never put my SM58 or 57 more than 32dB. Usually 28-30dB for my voice - which is already loud. For some others quieter singers I do 32.
Question when setting mics on a digital mixer if you have unity do you still have to dial back the fader to -6 to -10 db my mixer digital mixer has 0 an goes up to +10
Thanks for suggesting I make it! As always, let me know if there's anything else you'd like to see. Teaching singers to mix their own in-ears is on the way...
Muchísimas gracias por compartir y ayudarnos y a You tu be por dejar poner traductor a español el video y poder leer en español los comentarios 👍👌😉saludos 😉👌
I`ve understood that the more gain on the preamp, the more sensitive the mic gets. Based on this, it would be important to not to try to get loud giving extra dbs on the preamp, but instead doing it on the fader or in the make up of the comp, so we can get louder with less feedback risk. What do you think about this?
That's a common misconception, but I'm glad you brought it up! Gain is gain, unless the preamp starts to distort, which "compresses" the signal. That's where the "preamp-over-fader" idea came from. But as long as you're not clipping, the level change is going to be ALMOST exactly the same.
i do this on my live mix too. when i have four singers and they are all at -18dbfs it just makes it right on the border of feedbacking especially once i add reverb.
Gain structure putting everything consistent to -18 and then adjusting the front of house with the faders and then the band has all p16 monitoring their selves with headphones works for me.
Hey James, I was working on a very harsh female vox today, trying to EQ and make more palatable for live stream (digital x32 as a slave). We played back from a pre recorded service and I noticed that it was clipping on the livestream, so i checked the main console. Sure enough, clipping there too. I tried adjusting the pre and it did bring the signal down, but still clipped at certain points. My thoughts were that the input signal was clipping even before it hit the preamp, but I'm just guessing here. I called Sennheiser about lowering the dB's on the transmitter, but apparently they are automatic (digital) and unable to be adjusted. Am i thinking on the right path here? I am not a sound man, I'm a worship leader, but I know my way around the board. I'm just entering a leadership position and trying to get everything in order. Thoughts? Oh yes, I was somewhat unsuccessful in EQ'ing the vox so far, so any help on this end is much appreciated. By the way, I was sold on your channel when i heard you say "24 hour worship is in my blood"....yes, yes, yes! To God be the Glory!
Hey jj! Sounds like you’re on the right track, but let me just ask some clarifying questions. Are you adjusting the gain on the board while listening to virtual sound check, or while she’s actually singing into the mic? Have you watched your meters while she’s singing into the mic to verify that the board isn’t clipping and that it’s the mic’s transmitter? You can’t undo the clipping in post (well you can, but that won’t help your gain structure problem)
@@AttawayAudio James, I have not seen the meters on FOH yet, I just discovered the problem in post trying to EQ in virtual soundcheck (on slave). I will be looking this Sunday for sure. The EQ led to the clipping question, back to FOH. Let me clarify, virtual soundcheck is running through FOH then to slave. But I didnt know that if the actual recording clips that it would send a "clipped" red light to FOH even when gain is low? I dont remember analog working that way?
@@nigell.8705 The FOH recording was the clipping problem. Also, the gain cannot be controlled from the slave/livestream. It’s pre controlled by the FOH.
@@jjmonty8090 I was having the same problem and found the graphic equalizer that was feeding the FOH on our system and turned down the gain and it fixed the clipping problem. I figured your's was similar with the FOH being the issue. Glad you found the problem.
Awesome, you quickly addressed something I've always wondered, where do I set my power amps at... I'm running a eurodesk into a 1400 watt power amp for my band live... Drums, vocs, harmonica, keys, bass and guitar I've always set them 3/4s of the way up. My main issue is running out of headroom for lead vocals. After watching some of your vids on eq and fader placement I'll try cutting everything else before trying to boost vocals. But back to my original question what is a good rule of thumb for setting power amps output
If you're running out of headroom on the mixer, why not go all the way up on the power amps? After you do that, just make sure you're not clipping the power amps. It's kind of a dance back and forth to get the best level from your console and the most headroom on your amplifiers.
Hi James. What do you think would be the ideal method to use when setting up gain in a smaller room. The dimensions of the room are probably around 80ft by 20ft. The method I’ve been using is keeping the faders at 0 and adjusting gain thereafter. But I run the main L&R fader at about -10. I know I should be running it at 0, But I can the noise floor come up in the room at that level. I recorded the sermon yesterday and while editing it in protools, the noise floor was quite noticeable as I recorded the main L&R output through the console USB recorder. I’m using a Behringer X32 console
Sounds like your speakers/amps are too hot. If you turn them down, you'll be able to get better signal-to-noise ratio from your preamps, rather than boosting digitally after you record.
Attaway Audio I see thank you. Just to let you know, the speakers are running on it’s mid volume. On the speaker volume pot, it says “normal”, that’s where I’m running it at. But I will turn the volume down a bit on them and see if that helps. I appreciate your response :)
Never mix with gain knobs! Set them where they need to be so you have enough gain for the channel to sound good and to have proper gain for IEM’s and stream if mixing the stream from the FOH.
yes and no. if you have gain structure that works on your power amp side, you'll have both at the same time, without having tons of energy on instruments that need to be quiet, and mixes that "balance themselves" in those other destinations
I can never get my snare and first two Toms in the FOH - even though the channel gain on my X32 is -18 db - without added tons of makeup gain. It doesn’t seem correct. When I hear other live mixes, the Tom’s and snare always come through easily. I’m using senheiser 604’s. Any thoughts? Should it just work without makeup gain?
Vocals are a mono input, but adding effects can be in stereo. If i'm running to IEMs, I like to have their send stereo so they can pan things, but (mostly) keep their vocal straight down the middle. Thanks for the comment andy M!
@@AttawayAudio ur amazing in thease times and if feedback occurs in foh cause compressing will the singer here it in monitors hat are not compressed ? thanks
Just heard of a method where in order to feed all effects and monitor sends with a decent signal, set preamps to just below clip, then remove all channels from L/R mix and assign them to various buss'. Send the buss' to the mains. You can pull a buss down without affecting the sends to everywhere else and if you mix into each buss well, the buss' can be close to unity to have better control over buss faders no matter where channel faders are set. I haven't tried it yet but it looks good on paper lol.
On our X32 we have the signal pretty low. We can only turn our PA system up to about -17db. Would it be worth it to lower the volume of our speakers so then our board's gain structure will be more correct? Just feels weird to turn something else down to turn something else up...
Exactly right. It feels weird but it’s letting each gain stage live in its “happy place.” Your console will use all its bits, and your power amps will still sound great.
I don't have anything specific on that console, but you might like this playlist and this other video ruclips.net/p/PLR7hxbYNsHgyPel9lOZvUuRX_e1NgMpSd ruclips.net/video/XYKszVPOTB8/видео.html
I would, but I don't actually do that quite exactly. There are other gain stages to take into consideration... maybe this video will help ruclips.net/video/R7zKiFErHs4/видео.html
@@AttawayAudio Thanks. I've been asked in my church if i'm interested to be a sound engineer.. Usually i play bass in church but i notice i seem to have good ears/feel/about sound + i can analyse things quite easily. Anyway, i actually never worked on a mixer before and you are helping me a lot. Thanks :-)
I just love the intro music and transition music. I often pause and sit in silence because of how beautiful it is!!
Excellent !
Love the general infos at the end, like :
"Most vocal mics need ~35 / 40db of gain, Guitars ~25, etc".
These general cases are great to know, please keep doing these "most case" scenarios.
It provides just general rules, or thoughts to keep in mind, and easy to remember.
Thanks Dex! Those guidelines have saved me SOOOO much time when I’m trying to get set for sound check
@@AttawayAudio Thank YOU !
I'm about to sonorize a gig next week, and I'm currently watching all your videos (even tho it's 3am here haha), and taking notes. Your content will help a ton you have no idea.
(I'm on your Vocal Reverb & Delay videos right now, they're so great. You go into details, numbers like feedback percentage, etc. Love it ! Please keep going ! You rock !)
Have a nice day sir, I go back into it :)
For me it's important to know, what headroom ensures, that when I get the artist's opinion of "the loudest", the real loudest won't clip.
Thank you so much for sharing so much knowledge in the audio field with such funny and effective cartoons! I could literally see the faces getting sprayed! lol 😂
The pixilated image for to low gain and the clipped image for ...well, clipped audio due to too much gain is an excellent analogy.
God Bless you gor sharing all this amazing knowledge. the best channel on pro audio!🙏👏👏👏👏👏
5:01 Dave Rat has a really good channel. He mixes for the Chili Peppers!
Vocal mics about 35-40dB gain? :o
Woah, that's hot! I've never put my SM58 or 57 more than 32dB.
Usually 28-30dB for my voice - which is already loud. For some others quieter singers I do 32.
Could depend on your power amp levels too. No gain stage is an island 🌴
@@AttawayAudio also, but this is more regarding method #1 - looking at levels. Doing more than 32dB I can easily clip level with my voice ;)
Yeah some people are just loud 🤷🏻♂️
Very useful tips. Thanks a lot
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the comment J Restrepo!
Question when setting mics on a digital mixer if you have unity do you still have to dial back the fader to -6 to -10 db my mixer digital mixer has 0 an goes up to +10
Great explanation of digital clipping....and you did it on my board! Woot!
Sweet! Thanks David! Happy mixing!
So great, dude!!!!!!
Hello! I have a question, can these tips be also applied if using powered speakers?
Thanks!! This helped a lot!
Thanks for suggesting I make it! As always, let me know if there's anything else you'd like to see. Teaching singers to mix their own in-ears is on the way...
Muchísimas gracias por compartir y ayudarnos y a You tu be por dejar poner traductor a español el video y poder leer en español los comentarios 👍👌😉saludos 😉👌
do I have to treat digital pream differently and analog? what on analog I should start with a 0db fader and on digital gain first?
Sir, how do you use the effects in the Allen and heath wz16:2dx mixer? How to get a digital balance?
I`ve understood that the more gain on the preamp, the more sensitive the mic gets. Based on this, it would be important to not to try to get loud giving extra dbs on the preamp, but instead doing it on the fader or in the make up of the comp, so we can get louder with less feedback risk. What do you think about this?
That's a common misconception, but I'm glad you brought it up! Gain is gain, unless the preamp starts to distort, which "compresses" the signal. That's where the "preamp-over-fader" idea came from. But as long as you're not clipping, the level change is going to be ALMOST exactly the same.
i do this on my live mix too. when i have four singers and they are all at -18dbfs it just makes it right on the border of feedbacking especially once i add reverb.
Gain structure putting everything consistent to -18 and then adjusting the front of house with the faders and then the band has all p16 monitoring their selves with headphones works for me.
Totally - that's a great way to get things done. Thanks Caleb!
Great content!
Hey James,
I was working on a very harsh female vox today, trying to EQ and make more palatable for live stream (digital x32 as a slave). We played back from a pre recorded service and I noticed that it was clipping on the livestream, so i checked the main console. Sure enough, clipping there too. I tried adjusting the pre and it did bring the signal down, but still clipped at certain points. My thoughts were that the input signal was clipping even before it hit the preamp, but I'm just guessing here. I called Sennheiser about lowering the dB's on the transmitter, but apparently they are automatic (digital) and unable to be adjusted. Am i thinking on the right path here? I am not a sound man, I'm a worship leader, but I know my way around the board. I'm just entering a leadership position and trying to get everything in order. Thoughts? Oh yes, I was somewhat unsuccessful in EQ'ing the vox so far, so any help on this end is much appreciated. By the way, I was sold on your channel when i heard you say "24 hour worship is in my blood"....yes, yes, yes! To God be the Glory!
Hey jj! Sounds like you’re on the right track, but let me just ask some clarifying questions. Are you adjusting the gain on the board while listening to virtual sound check, or while she’s actually singing into the mic? Have you watched your meters while she’s singing into the mic to verify that the board isn’t clipping and that it’s the mic’s transmitter? You can’t undo the clipping in post (well you can, but that won’t help your gain structure problem)
@@AttawayAudio James,
I have not seen the meters on FOH yet, I just discovered the problem in post trying to EQ in virtual soundcheck (on slave). I will be looking this Sunday for sure. The EQ led to the clipping question, back to FOH. Let me clarify, virtual soundcheck is running through FOH then to slave. But I didnt know that if the actual recording clips that it would send a "clipped" red light to FOH even when gain is low? I dont remember analog working that way?
What did you find out?
@@nigell.8705 The FOH recording was the clipping problem. Also, the gain cannot be controlled from the slave/livestream. It’s pre controlled by the FOH.
@@jjmonty8090 I was having the same problem and found the graphic equalizer that was feeding the FOH on our system and turned down the gain and it fixed the clipping problem. I figured your's was similar with the FOH being the issue. Glad you found the problem.
Awesome, you quickly addressed something I've always wondered, where do I set my power amps at... I'm running a eurodesk into a 1400 watt power amp for my band live... Drums, vocs, harmonica, keys, bass and guitar I've always set them 3/4s of the way up. My main issue is running out of headroom for lead vocals. After watching some of your vids on eq and fader placement I'll try cutting everything else before trying to boost vocals. But back to my original question what is a good rule of thumb for setting power amps output
If you're running out of headroom on the mixer, why not go all the way up on the power amps? After you do that, just make sure you're not clipping the power amps. It's kind of a dance back and forth to get the best level from your console and the most headroom on your amplifiers.
Awesome I'll try... Turn up all the way and work my way back if necessary thanks for all the info 👍
No problem! Let me know how it goes and if you have any more questions!
Thanks
Ironic he mentions mixing for the red hot chili peppers... I am subscribed to Dave Rat's channel, who does mix for them!
Exactly what I'm referring to. He runs his preamps hot on purpose.
Hi James. What do you think would be the ideal method to use when setting up gain in a smaller room. The dimensions of the room are probably around 80ft by 20ft. The method I’ve been using is keeping the faders at 0 and adjusting gain thereafter. But I run the main L&R fader at about -10. I know I should be running it at 0, But I can the noise floor come up in the room at that level. I recorded the sermon yesterday and while editing it in protools, the noise floor was quite noticeable as I recorded the main L&R output through the console USB recorder. I’m using a Behringer X32 console
Sounds like your speakers/amps are too hot. If you turn them down, you'll be able to get better signal-to-noise ratio from your preamps, rather than boosting digitally after you record.
Attaway Audio I see thank you. Just to let you know, the speakers are running on it’s mid volume. On the speaker volume pot, it says “normal”, that’s where I’m running it at. But I will turn the volume down a bit on them and see if that helps. I appreciate your response :)
Never mix with gain knobs! Set them where they need to be so you have enough gain for the channel to sound good and to have proper gain for IEM’s and stream if mixing the stream from the FOH.
yes and no. if you have gain structure that works on your power amp side, you'll have both at the same time, without having tons of energy on instruments that need to be quiet, and mixes that "balance themselves" in those other destinations
I can never get my snare and first two Toms in the FOH - even though the channel gain on my X32 is -18 db - without added tons of makeup gain. It doesn’t seem correct. When I hear other live mixes, the Tom’s and snare always come through easily.
I’m using senheiser 604’s.
Any thoughts? Should it just work without makeup gain?
just use more preamp, but don't clip it
Subscribed 👍🏼
Thanks Protoman!
dave rat's analog console hahaha for the over driven mic pre. :D
Exactly 😂
❤
bosss does foh prefer vocals in stereo or mono ? and does singers own iem mix prefer vocals in stereo or mono ? like always thanks
Vocals are a mono input, but adding effects can be in stereo. If i'm running to IEMs, I like to have their send stereo so they can pan things, but (mostly) keep their vocal straight down the middle. Thanks for the comment andy M!
@@AttawayAudio ur amazing in thease times and if feedback occurs in foh cause compressing will the singer here it in monitors hat are not compressed ? thanks
Hi i was mixing a band of gypsies and they were using the mic imput level at + 6 or more and output level at +9 is it ok ??
Probably fine unless you start to hear distortion.
Just heard of a method where in order to feed all effects and monitor sends with a decent signal, set preamps to just below clip, then remove all channels from L/R mix and assign them to various buss'. Send the buss' to the mains. You can pull a buss down without affecting the sends to everywhere else and if you mix into each buss well, the buss' can be close to unity to have better control over buss faders no matter where channel faders are set. I haven't tried it yet but it looks good on paper lol.
On our X32 we have the signal pretty low. We can only turn our PA system up to about -17db. Would it be worth it to lower the volume of our speakers so then our board's gain structure will be more correct? Just feels weird to turn something else down to turn something else up...
Exactly right. It feels weird but it’s letting each gain stage live in its “happy place.” Your console will use all its bits, and your power amps will still sound great.
How to m16.8 digital mixer vocal setting and gate control
I don't have anything specific on that console, but you might like this playlist and this other video
ruclips.net/p/PLR7hxbYNsHgyPel9lOZvUuRX_e1NgMpSd
ruclips.net/video/XYKszVPOTB8/видео.html
👍👍👍
thanks! 🙌
What is your outro's song
it's from a track Judah Earl made for Jaye Thomas, but never got released ruclips.net/video/Z4ZW5GCvKlM/видео.html
Going way too fast ,need to slow down smoothly I'm a bigginer just learning stages while setting up church Mike, Sir Slowly thank you
@@AttawayAudio woah jaye Thomas is an amazing singer/worship leader thanks by the way
Can you please do a separate video about mixing everything by using the pre-amp settings?
I would, but I don't actually do that quite exactly. There are other gain stages to take into consideration... maybe this video will help ruclips.net/video/R7zKiFErHs4/видео.html
@@AttawayAudio Thanks. I've been asked in my church if i'm interested to be a sound engineer.. Usually i play bass in church but i notice i seem to have good ears/feel/about sound + i can analyse things quite easily. Anyway, i actually never worked on a mixer before and you are helping me a lot. Thanks :-)
Nice thumbnail
thanks!
Why does he looks so much Like Ross from friend
Hurting people? Blow their face off? I'd better drink less coffee! ☕
Põem legenda em português
a tradução de legendas está na lista de coisas a fazer. obrigado Wil William (via google translate... I don’t really know Portuguese)