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Anything other than an emphatic "yes" is not a "yes." A coerced "yes" is not a "yes." A "yes" after pushing against a "no" until you wear them down is not a "yes." It's 2024. We should know this by now.
i've heard "it should always be an enthusiastic yes" (also to take consideration about their mood, the environment, How conscious they are and everything to make sure it's fully consensual)
@@Dvgteeth what type of twisted logic even is that? a bad act that happened over a decade ago is still a bad act especially if it went completely unpunished. would you genuinely say that point toward in front of a victim's face?
to anyone saying "she wouldn't SA anyone, she wrote songs against it with her experience!" just because someone has trauma does not mean they are a good person.
"wrote songs about it with her experience" but wasn't that controversy when crybaby first popped up about how she wasn't a survivor and is just using it as a plot point for her albums
I feel a good reference for this point is what was exposed in the new documentary about Dan Schneider and Nickelodeon. When it was exposed what went on with drake from drake and Josh ( never watched it, I don’t know is that’s correct title) it exposed his trauma from when he was on Nickelodeon. Yet despite it he still later on was exposed for (allegedly) grooming kids. Whether he actually did it or not I think is a good example that trauma dosent make a person incapable of doing the exact same thing.
@@Sunflowerp3bbles I don't think she believes a woman can sa another woman. She always centers songs about this topic (or similar) around men and that screems ignorance to me.
@@Kit_Katttttttt13 no, Timothy is the one spreading lies. Melanie was proven innocent, someone literally came out saying Timothy talked to her about how easy it is to frame a celeb for SA (It was an ex friend of Timothy's) There's way more holes in Timothy's story than Melanie's. Be so fr right now
“Oh I really hope Melanie is innocent because-” I hope she’s innocent because that would mean someone wasn’t *assaulted.* I’ve always loved Melanie’s music and still do because it’s helped me process a TON of trauma, but I still feel so horrible for Timothy. She doesn’t deserve any of this.
EXACTLY. Melanie's been one of my favourite artists for years, and this shattered all of that. I don't understand, she allegedly raped someone, how can you still listen to their music, especially the ones that talk on the things she did to Timothy. I hope and pray that Timothy can heal and have a good life after what Melanie and her fans did.
@@lemonlimeenzyme569wait in 2019 didn’t someone find proof of Melanie’s “innocence”? Or at least someone told me there was proof of her innocence but that could be false
SA DOESNT EXPIRE. when you get sa’d (im speaking from personal experience) it’s hard to talk about when the exact day was, hard to take it to court, and when it’s women on women it’s taken less seriously. pressuring someone into saying yes, saying nothing, IS NOT CONSENT.
Isn't there some law where it's like, you can report it until it's 10 years later or until your 21, whatever comes later or sumthing? That law doesn't affect me much bc Im gonna report my expirience once I'm an adult and can handle it better.
speaking from my personal experience as well, i dont talk about it anymore bc when i did, nobody believed me or they victim blamed me. now some ppl i know assume things never happened bc i never told them
@@pearlboyscasette I don't talk about it because the guy who did it to me is probably dead now, he was really old. Plus my mum saw and accused me of having an affair with him. So not happening
I find it much more plausible that in a moment of pressure while Timothy was on a show she messed up the date, than everything that everyone said was a lie.
There are so many famous people who are starting to get called out recently and it’s so bad. What does a child have to offer that a grown adult can’t??? And why can’t they take no as a answer? Does it hurt there ego or something? Like WHAT. I hope that this situation clears up so that Timothy can be left alone.
she is. this is the only thing y’all have against her so y’all are running with it. edit - to the comment ratioing me just know nothings been proven fact AT ALL and melanie will humble tf out of her in court. good day!
I remember seeing someone on tiktok say “Listening to mels unreleased songs even if she doesnt like it bc she doesn’t seem to like consent either x 💋” AND I WAS LIKE OH MY GOD 😭😭
As someone who is neurodivergent and struggles with communication, trauma, and anxiety, I think its always important to ask for consent, and to ask throughout if the person is okay. It’s important to place care and safety on an experience that can be so emotional for people. People need to do better and care more.
@@VALENSlO I'm not saying how I support that, im neutral too, im just mentioning the irony about how people say ''believe the victim first'' but then change as soon as its someone they like
@@VALENSlO I say support the victim but don't necessarily go after the accused until there is proof. I don't think it's fair to write the victim off because that can do a lot of harm, even if they are lying, it still negatively affects real victims.
Melanie need to fr speak up. Like her being quiet is not making her look good even if she didn’t do it, when it’s a serious topic like this, I don’t understand why she’s being quiet
Thank you!! 😩 I really think anybody with an online presence her size and an ounce of responsibility would have encouraged their fans to stop harassing and doxxing Timothy years ago. The silence is deafening. She had no trouble writing diss tracks. 🙄
@@Nevadas_Numbers.Offical yeah I also don’t understand why none of them are trying to take this to court like this is a literal crime that is being accused
@@Nevadas_Numbers.Offical Taking her to court would be a response. She hasn't even aknowledged Timothy's statement, let alone implied she plans to take legal action.
Id just really like to bring up that whichever girl said that she was "worn down" by melanie to say yes is NOT consent. That is sexual coersion and when its done multiple times is abuse. (This is as clarification for people unknowing or unaware hope it helps)
People who say “but Melanie wouldn’t do that!” or “She’s too nice to do that!” Do you know what she’s like behind closed doors? Do you know how Melanie acts when people aren’t around or on camera? People trying to defend her, need to understand that THEY DO NOT KNOW HER. Yeah she comes off as nice, but that’s because that’s how she chooses to show herself to other people. We as fans can’t say what Melanie would or wouldn’t do or how she does and does not act. The only ones who REALLY know what happened are Timothy and Melanie, so people need to stop saying what happened WHEN THEY WERENT THERE…
The irony that Melanie has a song called "Dollhouse" which points out that some celebrities/people in general only look perfect for the public, but in private it's pretty much quite the opposite image lmao. Her fans should be aware that they don't truly know Melanie. Guess it's just shocking that a singer who denounces horrible topics to end up as a perpetrator (allegedly) of those topics.
@@len_4729 I love that song sm and a few others, unlike a lot her other songs during that time that felt like they were sexualizing kindergarten and child-like things. 😭
I saw a video of one of her fans reacting to the news and timothy's video and she literally kept saying that she didnt know this girl why would she believe her when shes known melanie for years, I was shocked that she was serious
The amount of 12 year olds on my feed saying "Even if she's guilty I'm still gonna support her. She makes good music!" Is concerning. Edit: I'm not talking about separation of artist and art. Kids are saying that they will still buy merchandise and love her bc it's not that big of a deal.
(I EDITED THIS BECAUSE HOW I WORDED IT MADE ME GET ATTACKED ANYWAY YOUR EDIT IS VALID TY FOR CLARIFICATION!!) I’m on Timothy’s side most definitely but still questioning if Mel is innocent. If not I do have all of her songs downloaded that were re uploaded and separating the art from the artist is very important. If you don’t agree that’s okay, that’s just my thoughts. (pls don’t reply tho I get that im probably a bad person for this)
@@Dollness_xoxoyea that’s fine as long as you can find a way to enjoy it without giving her money directly or indirectly it’s completely fine personally I feel sad and gross listening to her music but I’m happy if some people are able to listen to it still
I had one of her fans in the comments of a video tell me they DID NOT CARE! That Timothy wasn't going to "make them stop supporting Melanie and listening to her music". Of course, nothing is wrong with listening to her music. As long as you're willing to hold her accountable and not sweep the allegations under the rug. However, saying you don't care is god awful. I was disgusted...
i really appreciate you bringing this back up in 2024 because i remember being there in 2017 as a fan of the crybaby album. her tweeting “she never said no” sealed the nail in the coffin - i don’t care if the allegations are true or not, that is r*pe apologist language. every time ive tried to tell people about this (when they claim she could do no wrong/didn’t do those things), people are so quick to deny and defend her, but what she said was completely unforgivable, and the way she “responded” with diss tracks was childish and irresponsible.
As another ex-Melanie fan, I was hurt by this. I was at the trilogy tour and had spent a few hundred dollars on her merchandise. I agreed with her political beliefs and she stood for all the right things. I felt like I could trust her and I was clearly wrong trusting a celebrity. This video helped me get the right view on this situation and I have stopped listening to her and have scored all my merch away. Stay safe
This was my experience as well. I explained my logic to my sister and she just said she’d keep listening to her. It broke my heart when this happened and I ceased listening to her music altogether. Also-is it not sus at all that Melanie had her comments TURNED OFF for at least five years?
Whether or not Melanie did it, the response from her fans is SICKENING, the amount of people saying “I wouldn’t care even if she did it” is horrific. I’m not taking sides either way as I never really cared for her or her music, but it’s one thing to show indifference and another to actually attack an alleged victim
Honestly, I’ll admit I *was* a die hard fan. But now that I’ve heard about this I’m just not sure about her anymore! I don’t want to just outright say Timothy was lying but imo it’s really hard to accept or believe it. Especially after I’ve been listening to her ever since I was 6!! I just don’t know anymore! But I hope it goes well and everything gets sorted out eventually. But this whole situation is just too much imo
@@GabriellaSalmeron-uq4ds totally, I mean I get that it’s a hard situation for fans because the allegations can appear kinda sketchy, but I personally wouldn’t even want to chance supporting her in case they really were true, it doesn’t mean stop listening to her music, but I guess we just have to accept we know literally nothing about who celebrities really are as people and we never will, chances are most of them are terrible
Even if i dont like timothy, i will NEVER say she deserved all of this. The fandom is being represented by these sickening fans, and its sad. The mel fandom has been so toxic and hateful towards people and its so fucking heartbreaking to see. Timothy never deserved to be doxxed or get death threats. I apologize for this side of the fandom.
also the fact that Melanie endorsed and enabled her fans to attack others for her, no matter who ends up being innocent, her second statement thanking her fans for doing all the dirty work instead of making a statement to set the record straight is nasty
No one should go through that stuff. No one should get hate until proven guilty, this goes for both of them. Instead of picking sides, people should try to find evidence and proof or wait for one of them to expose themselves.
@@giggles36 yeah because they're naive children who have already resorted to worshipping melanie, sadly. and most these kids dont fully grasp how BAD grape even is. ive seen many claim that even if melanie uhhh. was a felonie if you catch my drift, they'd still support her
@@wanderer_808 The worst part is that most of them are older. I heard some allegations abt her when I was younger, and immediately stopped listening to her music/supporting her until I heard that they were just rumors(not sure if that still rings true) Age shouldn’t be an excuse. If you don’t understand the full extent of assaulting someone, you shouldn’t be online
SAME ND REAL. mel could say "yea i did it, it was in the past and ive changed im sorry timothy" and ppl would d1(k ride so bad and forgive nd forget it all
I would like to remind people that celebrities are essentially characters. The Melanie you see on tv or online is not really her, it's a made up persona designed to make as much money as possible. Same with every other celebrity.
as someone who was a fan of melanie martinez when she just started making music (i was around 10), i never knew the full extent of this situation. all i knew was what my friend had told be about her being accused and then disproven. i’m very unsure of what to think about all of the information, but i don’t want to believe melanie at this point. i’m a firm believer of separation of art from the artist, but as my room is practically surrounded by melanie merch from me finding portals, i don’t know if i want it up anymore. thank you for posting this video, louis, you’ve helped me understand some more of the situation
Same, I like her music and I’m sad to discover this. I haven’t known her music for very long but I have started to listen to her more recently and since I don’t have much social media I wouldn’t have known if not for this video.
Same I was between 10-12 around the whole situation and was so confused cause all the information felt like it was being spit out like fire works so I just dropped it til everything cooled down but I was also sweeped into a few more dramas on the internet about my favorite RUclipsrs so I just forgot about it til a week or two after I week to the trilogy tour
this is great. so few of her fans seem to have the self awareness and compassion to change. i think honestly having all that merchandise around you will only remind you of her crimes. it's up to you, separation of art and the artist ofc, you dont have to throw it away. you dont have to stop listening to her music. but id personally stop supporting her and buying merchandise. and imo there's plenty of artists with way more depth and a better sound than melanie has. especially with portals... but im very very relieved that you have the sense to see through all the denying and shaming and victim blaming happening. fuck melanie martinez. everyone tells women who come out against male celebrities that they just want attention, fame, etc. these are the same tactics people have been using against victims forever. to shame them into silence. id rather side with a potential victim than a potential rapist. we have to remember, we know NOTHING about the celebrities we worship and adore. we only know them as much as they want us to, as the image they portray to us. she isnt some vulnerable, innocent, emotional, creative magical fairy woman. she's a regular person. who happens to be a piece of shit and ruined a woman's life.
Fr also it’s pretty obvious that Melanie is the liar considering she literally admitted to it in that tweet and just proceeded to contradict herself several more times I don’t get how anyone is on her side she made herself look like a complete fool
When Timothy’s story first came out back in 2017, I feel like I was the only one who put my foot down and said I don’t want to follow someone with allegations. Glad you made this video Louis. And I just want to say that Melanie was one of my top 3 artists at that time.
@@floreiii Right. Melanie is techincally innocent. Its been 7 years and she still cant provide any evidence. She even said that its just her word against melanie.. what is the point of all of this? I think its her borderline personality disorder causing her to self sabotage. She got doxxed and is still to this day harassed over her initial statement, I dont know why she keeps bringing it back up. She needs to move on. If she knows she cant provide any evidence, then she needs to try and heal and move on. Again... 7 years... Let melanie go. Its evident how hard her BPD is coming into play with this.
i do not believe melanie & won’t support her until she is proven innocent but, guilty until proven innocent is wrong. it is innocent until proven guilty so melanie is still innocent until proven guilty
I saw the title and was like "Man, not Melanie Martinez" istg no one can escape the downfall EDIT: NO i did not know about this years ago. I was a lot younger at the time and was hyperfixated on my little pony. Please stop asking me why i didnt know about this before, beause i was a kid.
@@ARandomRUclipsr0no they HAVEN'T. Melanie just DENIED THEM, victim blamed Timothy, and her fan harassed Timothy off of the Internet. All Melanie said in response was "she never said NO" so she never said YES either. Don't even try that.
@@laurentrevethan1802 “she never said no to what WE CHOSE to do TOGETHER” i think Mel missed some body language or something because she perceived the action as consentual…. where did she victim blame her? stop responding to me i will NOT reply anymore😪
It's not really surprising anymore when one by one they are all being exposed. There are good people out there of course but there are times where it's hard to believe so
Melanie is 29 now. If she continues this silence instead of at least apologizing for misunderstanding Timothy's feelings.....that would make Melanie seem incredibly guilty. REGARDLESS Timothy does not deserve anything that has been done to her. It is ridiculous that people are proud about treating someone that way.
i commented on a video reminding everyone ‘hey!! remember we need to support the victim until blah blah blah’ like a normal person and i received many insane comments “yeah, i’m just gonna believe some random person on the internet” (as if melanie isn’t just a random person at the end of the day 💀) “believe the victim? are you insane? are you sick?” this one shocked me… people are so strange :/
@@pookiewookiemeowmeow and the fact that Melanie responded, the one thing that stuck out while reading that was "she never said no" which practically admitted it
@@rorocherri I’m tired of people just screaming believe the victim. Yes believe the victim but also innocent until proven guilty??? What about actually having proof? If it was automatically believe the victim, then do you know how many innocent people would be in jail right now? Sometimes you need actually use your brain and not just mindlessly follow what’s popular or thrown at you.
as an sa survivor it’s always innocent until proven guilty. my abuser accused me and one of my friends of SAing them and fucked up our lives. it’s not always blindly believe the victim, its dont support anyone until you have enough information to.
i’ve been threatened, almost doxxed & harassed for talking ab this over the years. i am SO GLAD that ppl are finally telling Timothy’s story & seeing MM for who she is.
I remember Melanie Martinez supposedly and officially replying to the Oliver Tree situation on TikTok, saying they ended their relationship on good terms and that the fan rumors are nonsense. If she actually said this, I’m just shocked she’d rather respond to a less serious rumor that smart fans can figure out if they’re not a 10-year-old shitposting on their mama’s iPad, instead of addressing something way more serious.
I'm an abuse survivor and was a massive Melanie Martinez stan before the news in 2017, I dropped all of it so fast because this all felt too real and too right. Then her statement was the final nail in the coffin because it was the classic denial spin. 🚫
Yeah I’ve been a fan of hers when I was 7 and hearing everything has been a shock but I’ve actually dropped both the fandom and the music since there might be a chance that she did something horrible. Also I’m so sorry and I hope ur doing better now❤
@Rayscales6 I appreciate you and your kind thoughts internet stranger, I'm trying. I'm sorry someone you were supposed to be able to look up to let you down.🫶
@Potterhead1111 dude thank you for your kind words. Honestly, what I tell people and what I want to say to you is I'm so glad you don't. Its insidious tendrils creep into every corner of your life, though my case could be considered a rather extreme one, this is true for so many no matter the specifics. It's a day by day process, I like to think I'm getting somewhere though....I'm still here and that counts in my book
to those who say "she couldnt have done that she was a victim too!" people who are victims of S/A are more likely to commit the same crimes. nearly every r@p!$t i know was also S/A'd when they were kids or teens. its a common occurrance since the most common mindset is 'oh it happened to me and i'm ok so they will be too'
People who are assaulted are not more likely to assault someone else. Dont spread that narrative. Its just not true. Are there cases of people being assaulted and then assaulting other people? Yes. But its categorically untrue to say a someone whos a victim will more than likely assault someone else. Do not feed into this narrative bc no victim in their right/healthy mind would be okay doing it to someone else.
It’s interesting to me how her fandom falsely accused her former boyfriend Oliver Tree of abuse, yet vehemently force Timothy into silence when she speaks up about ACTUAL sexual crimes being committed against her. It just proves how performative they are, “support victims” until it’s their favorite music artist ig.
I like both mel and oliver tree she never said he abused her and its not all fans who do this. Read my OG comment i state good points in how this guy is taking mels statement out of context.
her fans are the same people who would say “believe all victims” but once its their favorite artist they will do anything to defend her… absolutely the worst fanbase of all time
Exactly! Liking someone’s music is no excuse for supporting something like SA, they all have parasocial relationships with her too from what I’ve seen. It’s actually sickening to me
had a argument with a mel defender the other day, she said timothy brought the sex game and her bringing it automatically meant she couldn’t change her mind on playing it and had too, mel fans are insane
As a Melanie fan (please don't come for me, I'm a fellow victim I'm just staying neutral and keeping my two cents to myself) that is the most bullshit statement I've heard in my life like Consent can be WITHDRAWN wtf do they mean "she can't change her mind"??? 😭😨😨
Well and Timothy bought it with joking intent. She explains this in a video, she found the game at a thrift store with Mel and thought it would be funny to take it back with them. Timothy would take it unseriously while Mel would slowly make advances and get suggestive about it
melanie and her fans/defenders REALLY need to learn the damn 'FRIES' consent rule, genuinely so tired of seeing this type of argument used to defend perpetrators and blame victims, (for those who are genuinely unaware, F- Freely Given, R- Reversible, I- Informed, E- Enthusiastic, S- Specific)
As someone who loves Melanie's music, this is so heartbreaking. Even if the allegations aren't true, I still feel horrible for Timothy. Nobody should have to go through what they did.
me too. I dont even know how to feel, her music has helped me with so much in my life. it’s… insane to think that this has been going on for years and people didn’t know about Melanie’s actions until now. It really is heartbreaking
@@eval_969now I feel like absolute crap for wanting to listen to her music- I love her music so much and I think im going to delete and remake all of my Spotify playlists now 😢
Personally I think Timothy is full of shit and not because I’m a Melanie “Stan” I have supported many other woman who go through these things. I will tell you that if the allegations are PROVEN true I would drop Melanie so fast. It’s just so sus with her that I have trouble really believing it. People say they’d rather believe and alleged liar over an alleged rapist but imagine being called a rapist and you’re actually innocent.. and that persons life is ruined forever and they will be forever known as a “rapist” People forget that people lie all the time to ruin lives and people are so easy to believe it :/ and of course it’s just as awful if someone did those things to you and no one believes you. This is why full investigations are thrown in people lol
I'm not saying this 100% happened, but I've noticed that sometimes if you post a picture on twitter (and I think Instagram but I could be wrong, I haven't been on that app in years) you'll end up with a duplicate of the picture in your gallery. So it could be something like that? Idk how you wouldn't notice that though unless she forgot to delete the extra one.
@@Anna_Crossing i think its genuinely just random, i had a picture that was created in 2020 but it popped up in my camera roll as 2016, might've just been an insane coincidence
Depending on the updatez and settings changes insta forced on you, heah it's absolutely possible. A few updates reset or added the toggles for saving a copy @@Anna_Crossing
Not to mention-(I’m an SA victim-I was SA’d via coercion) which is the same thing that Maddie carina was talking about-pressuring someone to say yes is assaulting them s*xually-my ex boyfriend did this to me, after seeing all of this put together-I am no longer a fan of melaine or her music-I am so horrified and disgusted-dear god why can’t anyone be normal??
@@wutthehell I am, I have a partner who loves me-and respects my boundaries, they are honestly the best person ever and I adore them more than words can describe Thank you so much for the kind comment ❤️
The problem is melanie didnt say "she didnt say no" but she said "she never said no to anything we chose to do together" while it doesnt mean yes its clear a consensual yes was not given so no further actions should have been taken.
Ofc consent is always so important but she never said no doesn't mean she never said yes. A lot of people have taken that statement and run with it. Also, implied consent can be given. In truth, only Mel and timothy knows what happened and people need to stop putting words in Mel's mouth. She didn't say timothy never said yes.
@@D0T_IS_A_TH3R14N melanie said that as a direct response to timothy, timothy said “i said no many times” something along the lines of that. thats why melanie said “she never said no to what we chose to do together”
As someone who was there in 2017, I think much of her audience was too young to genuinely comprehend what was being said especially what it meant for their favorite arist.
I once commented on a post about Melanie’s music and the person in the video said “Comment your fav artists and what you think of Melanie!” And I said that I liked Nirvana and my favorite song was Man Who Sold The World live in NYC, and that I didn’t really like Melanie’s music and thought her merch was overpriced. Some kid got mad and replied to my comment “Shame on you! Your body SHREDDED! Your meat fed to DOGS! Your bones burned in HELL!” This is what she actually replied too-
I don’t think kids know what “opinions” are, like sure people (even me) get a little angry bc of an opinion, but HARRASING SOMEONE is not cool dude, i cant even
as a victim of m0lestation, recent r@pes by my childhood best friend, and a huge fan of melanie in the past (and multiple other artists), we need to remember that saying, “celebrities are people too.” it has a few different interpretations like they deserve the same respect and privacy or they make mistakes but fans of artists need to start realizing, yes, they ARE people so they can be just as terrible and disgusting as the next person. celebrities should never get a pass just because theyre hot or because they are good at what they do or because they have done good things in the past. they are just like us and worse a majority of the time
What makes me really mad about Melanie is that she has never even once asked her fans to stop what they are doing. They are making the situations so much worse and are honestly disgusting
Melanie even made a post saying something along the lines of just her basically thanking her fans for all that they have done, which is just sickening.
@@Nick.loves.men. encouraging your fans to continue cyberbullying your victim is definitely interesting! she even told her fans to not harrass oliver tree but not timothy LMAO
@@m0ch4_t3a bro, no one has full control over anyone. If that was the case, we wouldn’t have free will 😐 even if Melanie told her fans to stop, there would still be fans that try to hurt Timothy.
i find it appalling that people doubt Timothy cause she came out and said her abusers name long after. i couldn't even begin to explain what rape could do to a person, and it's completely normal for her to not want to say her abuser's name in that moment, or even at all. it takes an unbelievable amount of courage and bravery to say who abused you, and i don't believe people should doubt her for naming her abuser later. in fact, it'd be weirder for her to immediately blurt it out (not to say that that's weird of course, it's just unusual) considering how hard it is to come out, wether the abuser is famous or not.
@@onlycows726 umm…huh? I don’t know why you asked that, but I suppose I’ll answer. Rape is non-consensual sex. If the person didint look straight into your eyes and said ‘yes’ by their free will- and I repeat, BY THEIR FREE WILL, it is rape. Hope this helps, I guess.
@@rivereexo did Timothy not have free will in the situation? she was under no mortal danger, no threats, no blackmail, no physical or mental power imbalance. What exactly was stopping Timothy from getting Melanie tf off of her? Wasn't it free will? Was her transportation to a more private setting an act of her free will? Were her clothes being magically removed so she could be penetrated with a sex toy her free will? All of that sounds like free will to me. Unless you're saying Melanie has super strength and carried Timothy over her shoulder to said private setting where she used her super strength to tear Timothy's clothing off. I don't know, Timothy's definition of "rape" is awfully vague and unidentifiable. How could she have been raped in a situation that was created by choices she made? She's a grown woman, what power imbalance does Melanie have over her exactly? And before you say 'Melanie was a known singer!!' Timothy herself never specified that in her past or future statement. If this is what passes as rape then where is the line drawn? How exactly did Melanie force her into anything? Because Timothy lacks a backbone to make her boundaries clear?
@@rivereexopreach so many people think its okay if they say "no" like 5 times then say yes the 6th time. or if they make a face that looks like they want it (i did that and they thought i wanted it but HELL NAH)
literally!!! Like im still on the fence a tiny bit about what the whole truth of the situation cause ive only seen this video (and thats obviously not gonna be completely accurate), but its such a gross thing to judge a potential victim for :( i mean to this day i have never told my friends the name of my SAer, does that make me less valid ??? no, obviously not
That is THREE people who personally knew Melanie who instantly believed Timothy. That should be more than enough for Timothy’s story to have at least an 80% chance of being true. Yikes 💀
Lol you got 3 ppl who actually knew and worked with Melanie who openly stated they dumped her after that & that her behavior towards them was what made it believable, and no Melanie Stan bats an eye Then Globelamp whose “friendship” with Timothy was over twitter & through text switches up & calls Tim a liar bc she didn’t defend her from Melanie’s crazy fans & who sucks up to Melanie now gets instantly believed by fans LMAO
@Tsukino2799 They tried saying Madeleine who came forward about her experience with Melanie was lying because she was friends with Timothy. Melanie fans don't understand Madeleine was friends with Melanie first. Melanie pushed Madeleine's boundaries and basically pushed her into intimacy. But they discredit Madeleine due to her supporting Timothy
@@Tourmalineghost wow I didn’t realize she was friends with Mel first! Is there like photos of them & dates of when they were friends, lol sorry for bugging you I’m just in the process of making a video of my own debunking the claim that Tim’s story was “inconsistent”.
I always thought it was cut and dry but finding out that the woman who she coerced is a SEPARATE woman than the one who was chased off the Internet is so horrifying to me. She not only assaulted one woman. But TWO. Because pressuring people into saying yes is NOT consent
@@BlueberryPl4ntYeah the accusor at the time came out and said it wasn't true if I remember right..... Getting kinda sick of Louis not researching at all and having kinda half-baked takes :/ Seems like power may be getting too alluring.... Unless these are all new but idk, I didn't think they were?
at the age of 12 i became in love with Melanie’s music, it helped me cope from being a victim of SA. now finding out that Melanie’s done this, it really crushes me. and the fact that she wrote so many songs like “Strawberry Shortcake” and others, it really hurts bc i’ve used those song to help me, and now i find out she’s done the thing that she’s singing against. it’s really devastating to find out
@@moa_bookworm nor am i, but it still hurts to find out what she could of possibly of done. even though shes made many songs against R@pe, and SA. so that’s manly the reason why im devastated, and upset
16:51 i believe Timothy on the multiple of the same photo thing because my phone tends to re-save photos from 2015 of me when i was little, so it could just be that her phone did too
if the "yes" had hesitation for whatever reason, it wasn't a "yes". if the "yes" was pressures, its not a "yes". if the victim stayed quiet, that does not equal a "yes". if the victim tried to politely decline or rearrange it, they were saying "no" in possibly the nicest way possible. if you support the supposed gr@p!st before they are proven innocent with REAL receipts, automatic blocked and DNI. what happened to "the accused is guilty until proven innocent" or "the accuser is innocent until proven guilty"??
GUYS! as it has been stated BUYING ITEMS DOES NOT EQUAL CONSENT!!! just because she bought items or maybe even brought them for that purpose DOES NOT MEAN ITS OKAY FOR THEM TO BE USED AGAINST HER WILL!!! PLUS! Consent CAN BE WITHDRAWN and that is COMPLETELY VALID! All of these fans saying OH WELL SHE BOUGHT THE STUFF please SHUT UP 🙏 she did not ask for it to be used against her will and saying one victim is lying harms all victims.
this argument has such a simple explanation provided by Timothy herself. It was Timothy's idea to buy the game as a joke, then Melanie's to play it, so yes, it can 100% still have been nonconsensual
its scary how you can't speak up against ur abuser if they're popular/famous or smth, because like, most ppl wouldn't believe you or smth edit: 1,5k likes??? thats the most i have ever gotten 😨tysm guys 💗💗 have an awesome day hope yall do well
The issue is that she has no proof. People come out against famous people ALL the time. You're on youtube, I know youve seen the mountain of youtubers being exposed in just this year. They all get settled because there is actual proof and the stories align.. timothy has nothing. She is just asking us to believe her words, which unfortunately you cant do, because false allegations exist. Melanie is innocent, until evidence can be brought against her to say otherwise. Thats how it works. This has been going on since 2017 and nothing has come from it for 7 years!!! The 2 girls need to settle it on their own, Timothy needs to stop coming to the media over and over. Its the same thing again and again.
Exactly it's so sad especially when it's other women tearing you down and telling you to get over it. The same women who supposedly call themselves girls girls
and then when said celebrity is finally outted for what they've done those same mfs who said you was lying would be like "I always had a bad feeling about ______"
I didn’t believe her in 2017 because her fan base told me it was “proven to be lies”. But I never realized how many people were standing with her that everyone was just burying.
As a die-hard melanie fan, we shouldn't be so quick to support someone we only know through a screen. I get it, people get attached to their idols and want to protect their name at all costs, but when it comes to serious allegations like this (especially this) we should take the time to see both sides of the story and as fans of melanie we should hold her accountable. It is not looking good for melanie, but what's more important to you? Your security with someone you only know through a carefully crafted screen, or a victim who was close to melanie and who's being supported by others who were also very close to melanie in the past. All I'm saying is, don't be so quick to support someone unless you know who you're supporting. Don't be blinded by rose-colored glasses, guys
I'm also a die-hard melanie fan(to the point of obsession, I need help), but I don't know what to think. I don't know who to support. I absolutely am sorry Timothy is traumatized, I just don't think Melanie did it or if she did, she didn't understand she was doing something wrong at the time. I love her music, and she seems like a sweetheart and someone I'd love to get to know, but you're right. We don't know her, and that's actually terrifying. To a point, I don't believe either. Till its all sorted out, I can't support either one. Melanie could have worded her statement better and Timothy could stop being kinda sketchy. Both could be in the wrong. Edit: sorry for the long ass comment, enjoy your day!
As an ex fan, it's actually shocking that she still has a career. By saying "she didn't say no" YOU'RE STILL ADMITTING TO DOING SOMETHING 😭 and on top of that APPLAUD your fan base for bullying the victim off the Internet...
She never applauded her fans for running her off the Internet, she thanked her fans for finding out that the date was wrong in her timeline and Timothy DID say that the date was wrong. That doesn't mean I'm on Mel's side tho, I'm neutral in this situation. I don't trust Mel but don't really believe Timothy either
I’m not saying Melanie is guilty or innocent, but I love the fact that everyone mentions the fact that Melanie says “she never said no” but completely overlooks the part where she says “to anything WE CHOSE to do TOGETHER” just saying
@@viper_lvr I completely agree, saying “she never said no” is a very gross thing to say, but she also said that whatever happened between them they chose to do to together, Ofc that doesn’t mean it’s the truth, just find it interesting how that part of the statement gets ignored is all.
consent doesn’t work this way, they CHOSE to have a sleepover and play swex game that looked silly, but for timothy it was only about spending time together and nothing more, but for melanie that playfulness and her friend’s love towards her was a sign timothy also wanted it, especially since she was high. that full sentence doesn’t sound any better in context, its even worse knowing timothy was broken down and let it happen just for melanie to stop pressuring her into saying yes. considering maddie, former mel’s friend also having the same experience it sounds just awful.
This isn't new, those allegations came out in 2017/2018, but people just decided to ignore it and forget about it for the sake of continuing to support a celebrity
@@elliot__agares When I was younger, I heard abt the situation, but I also heard that the allegations were false😭 It’s so hard to stay on top of everything when her stans are so toxic and adamant abt keeping everything hidden.
@@elliot__agares It doesn't help that Melanie has such a devoted community that all it takes is for rumors to spread that it's a lie and they'll gaslight themselves into believing it is one atp. Plus most people that are actually paying attention to this are ex Melanie fans or current ones.
Its just cancel culture if you think about what mel said years ago shes replying to timothys statement so when she says she didnt say no she is replying to when she was saying she said no. people are just taking it out of context to cancel her. just makes her piggyback song more real
when i first started listening to Melanie these allegations were years old and i had no idea about them till recently. i have a hard time letting her go because literally last month i was at her concert and now it just makes me sick to my stomach i wish she would speak up but i don’t think she ever will.
She doesn't need to speak up. She's made two official statements alongside speaking more freely about it on Piggyback and Fire Drill. She's said all she needs to say and has moved on, meanwhile Timothy can't do anything without having to constantly remind you
same. started listening to her a few yrs ago when these were already about 4yrs old and last month js went to the trilogy tour also. i thought they had been debunked and now that they’re resurfacing it sucks butt cheeks
@@dreamwclkerit's almost like Timothy was the fvcking victim or something, and every time Melanie gets popular she's reminded of the person who, idk, violated her and her consent or smth. Hm. And and Melanie has the privilege to never be held accountable for that because she has a rabid fanbase of people who will dox and attack that poor woman EVERY TIME she tries to get justice.
Okay, as a Melanie fan myself, I found out about this around two weeks ago. Never had it EVER crossed my mind to automatically assume, because I loved Melanie, that she could do no wrong. I can and will never understand how some people can blindly defend creators, claiming that they "KNOW" Mel and that she would "NEVER do that!!" Because the only things that you truly know about her are things that either she told you, or got leaked. Needless to say, I no longer consider myself a fan, and I was never one of those die hard fans (thank fuck, I really could not care less what you think about artists that I like - we all have our own opinions).
Tbf I think a lot of those people are young. When these allegations first came I was 12 and I thought like that. Now I'm 19 and realise I don't know her, and I can't know for certain what happened. I hope this is the case for most of those people too or else this is really really really concerning
Agreed she's a celebrity and not everyone knows her "good" people are different with others yk? So that's not a good defense for Melanie regardless I'm neutral in this situation
This is just like Tana where someone can be a bad person and bad things happen to them by a loved creator where fans just want their beloved creator to be the pure human being that can do no wrong
Thank you for speaking about this! I was scared people were gonna stop tallking about it and ppl just gonna forget it. no matter how bad i want Melanie to be innocent we have to hold her accountable, idc if she already made a statement, that's old and barely sound considerate. She needs to address it again because there already has been so much negative talk around her ever since people were noticing how expensive but very cheaply made her merch was for the trilogy tour. Her whole fandom is in shambles right now. It is fucked up how many young children are defending her right now when they don't even have the fully developed brain to decide on what's right from wrong, and how to do proper research and not believe very fake sources. It's more sickening when there are full grown adults defending the allegations to the moon and back! So yes! Id rather say shes guilty until proven innocent bc if tim was lying then we can go apologize to melanie and she wouldnt even lose anything, but if tim was right and we supported her, we wouldnt look like such guilty monsters, and this is coming from a crybaby
@@Devilish.Kitten in all seriousness, i understand. but its very annoying when people just automatically decide to choose a side when: a. melanie hasnt spoken out, mainly bc shes on tour. b. timothy doesnt have any CONCRETE proof that melanie did anything. c. suspiciously, timothy only seems to make a comeback when melanie is at her peak. atleast learn to stay neutral for now.
I’ve been a Melanie Martinez fan for quite a while. I haven’t even listened to her music since the allegations came out. I’d rather support an alleged liar then an alleged you know what.
Hi I'm so sorry this happened to you! I used to be apart of the fandom and they are really toxic for no reason it's still shocking the Melanie said all of this and she really needs to speak out
As a Mel fan (might have to call myself Ex fan if this is true 💀) I am so sorry that you had that experience I didn't even know that the fandom was so toxic until now just know your not whatever slurs they told you & you deserve more respect than tha
i saw some ppl saying "oh, melanie wouldn't do that!" YOU DONT KNOW?? you just know her from the internet, not real life, you just know what SHE wants you to know
Idk but someone who has made a bunch of songs abt abuse and rape while saying her music is heavily inspired by abuse she has suffered herself would do something like this, u can't cancel someone over just a claim.
Here’s my hot take: Just because Timothee said/did some racist things on Twitter/X *doesn’t mean she’s not a victim of SA.* It just means she was a SA victim who just-so-happened to not be a great person. Not all victims are perfect little angels.
I agree 100% but Melanie herself had said that they both mutually consented and during their intimacy, the consent was never rescinded. This whole allegation situation is confusing tbh
What disgusts me the most is that so many people expect victims to be perfect - to remember dates and time stamps, ideally have everything saved and recorded or taken pictures of and also have the best memory possible while barely expecting the same from the alleged rapist; as if SA isn't traumatic enough. Also: 1. Even if Timothy did something bad in the past, I honestly don't care- in a sense that any of her negative behaviors are a seperate issue to the fact that Melanie allegedly raped her. No one, I repeat, NO ONE should go through sexual assault. Rape is always bad, no matter who it happens to- crazy that it has to be said. 2. I'm really disgusted by the fans' behavior too. Whether all of it did happen or not, it was sickening to see so many people blindly defending their idol without a second thought, some admitting that they don't even care. Trully awful. Also just a side note, but it took me maybe three minutes of googling to learn that your pictures can, in fact, double themselves on your camera roll, either because of the system itself or because of third-party apps, mostly happening on Apple products by what I've read. So...
for real, in fact many criminology statements explain how most victims get facts wrong, as when you are in survival mode, our brains cannot think of all the details... victim blaming sucks real hard, so thanks for bringing this point up, cause it is not spoken about enough.
@@sleepy_teacup Yeah, glad I'm not alone in knowing how crazy it is to blame the victim's memory... also I feel like many people forget that it's not only the "survival mode" you mentioned- which is incredibly important to take into consideration too- but it's been literally proven that trauma affects memory as well :/
@CormacMcMillan Trauma affects different people differently. Some can never forget it. For mine, I can't tell you the details, time stamps or dates. I can only tell how much I wanted to disappear/end it and that I still feel the pain and harm of it. Hence why a few details may change overtime, because you remembered something after recovering. Also I know how easy it is to be manipulated and this way, convinced to say something else or stay silent for some parts- by words, by actions, by the fact that many support your abuser, but they despise you. So you change some things or avoid them to be left alone in peace, because trying seems wasteful and unattainable. I may be interpreting your words wrong, but I think it's good to have something in mind for everyone: I'd much rather believe an alleged liar than an alleged rapist. And who you choose also shows what kind of person you are.
I agree with your statement I am a Melanie fan and even so I still will not take sides I will wait for the appropriate amount of evidence to prove her guilty even if it isn't much it will still be evidence I do hope Melanie did not assault the girl and I hope she speaks up to say something and I hope the girl is ok and I hope she gets help through it if it is true
Btw just to let people know, the drawings melanie did of the chest out was a photo of melanie herself and not of a child. At the time of drawing that photo the "crybaby" album wasnt going to have a character that the album would follow. Instead the songs were gonna follow melanie herself with songs from that original concept being leaked such as "rotten milk" "where do babies come from" so thats not a child, its melanie herself. The character was only added to appease her record label later on. And the 2 headed baby is an actual doll btw and she was just drawing a replica.
that and if you notice, crybaby as a character is portrayed with brown hair, the album cover has split dye. I believe the 2 headed babies are also a symbol and are portayed as being that way, I forget what they are called sadly :(
As someone who considered themselves a diehard Melanie fan, I’m glad you covered this cause the fans defending a possible rapist on twitter THIS HARD when the victim isn’t even trying to file charges, just trying to defend herself online from weirdos, idk, I don’t wanna defend either but in always going to side with the possible victim before I side with a possible rapist.
I feel the same. I would love to support Melanie in this because I love her music but if she SA’d someone and then lied about it, that’s something that I can’t support.
If someone doesn’t say a three letter word ‘Yes’ it is NOT consensual. Every one of us should know this by now and it pains me that not all of us know this.
@@zimmyzioom that truly has nothing to with this comment... listening to both sides isn't going to change anything about what they said. it isn't going to change the fact that consent is not consent without a yes. your reply would've been fine as a standalone comment but it's really odd as a reply to this particular comment.
It's so delusional to think, just because you like a certain artist that you actually KNOW them. You don't. You have no idea who these people really are offstage. At the end of the day, they're just strangers who can be capable of anything like everyone else.
how is that proof of anything oml. timothy is PROVEN to be a pedophile, racist and hitler supporter. even timothy's ex-friend talks about her being a liar and how she went from believing her to realizing she just wanted to ruin melanie's career. and melanie's full statement was "she never said no to what we CHOSE to do TOGETHER", which was a response to timothy saying "i repeatedly said no".
"she didn't say no to what we chose to do together" melanie claims that this was consensual. it was a direct response to Timothy saying "I said no multiple times", meaning consent was not revoked. She's not saying a lack of no = yes, it's just poorly worded. (neutral, just explaining her statement because the first reply also got the statement wrong)
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Okie!
Epic vid as always btw
why did you just comment this
data breachers are so much more terrifying than melanie martinez
@@Louis_McClung Louis gets sponsors?? (Not hate I’m just genuinely surprised)
Anything other than an emphatic "yes" is not a "yes." A coerced "yes" is not a "yes." A "yes" after pushing against a "no" until you wear them down is not a "yes."
It's 2024. We should know this by now.
So real, thank you
Good thing this happened over a decade ago aye?
i've heard "it should always be an enthusiastic yes" (also to take consideration about their mood, the environment, How conscious they are and everything to make sure it's fully consensual)
@@Dvgteeth what type of twisted logic even is that? a bad act that happened over a decade ago is still a bad act especially if it went completely unpunished. would you genuinely say that point toward in front of a victim's face?
@@diosnumber1stfan it went unpunished because she didn’t go to the police
“ celebrities should touch our hearts not our parts”
👏👏👏💯🔥☝️
This comment needs more likes
@@noir._.drawingz4466 Thank You 💯🔥
W comment
Best comment!
to anyone saying "she wouldn't SA anyone, she wrote songs against it with her experience!"
just because someone has trauma does not mean they are a good person.
If anything, it just hints to me she thinks about it a lot... which isnt great with the allegations. She needs fuckin therapy, not fame
"wrote songs about it with her experience" but wasn't that controversy when crybaby first popped up about how she wasn't a survivor and is just using it as a plot point for her albums
I feel a good reference for this point is what was exposed in the new documentary about Dan Schneider and Nickelodeon. When it was exposed what went on with drake from drake and Josh ( never watched it, I don’t know is that’s correct title) it exposed his trauma from when he was on Nickelodeon. Yet despite it he still later on was exposed for (allegedly) grooming kids. Whether he actually did it or not I think is a good example that trauma dosent make a person incapable of doing the exact same thing.
@@Sunflowerp3bbles I don't think she believes a woman can sa another woman. She always centers songs about this topic (or similar) around men and that screems ignorance to me.
@@gaminganimators7000I don't know if that's really comparable as ww2 is a historical topic
“if its not a yes, then its a no!!!” we all say in unison
so real
*if its not a 100% yes (people can be forced/pressured to say yes, can say yes but not be sure about it, can say yes and clearly not mean it, etc)
2024 seems to be the year for celebritys getting outed as creep
fr i wasnt expecting melanie martinez to be problematic tho
She was outed years ago
@@passionate_possum_palfrrr
@@passionate_possum_palyup but her fans managed to cover it up by spreading lies
@@Kit_Katttttttt13 no, Timothy is the one spreading lies. Melanie was proven innocent, someone literally came out saying Timothy talked to her about how easy it is to frame a celeb for SA (It was an ex friend of Timothy's)
There's way more holes in Timothy's story than Melanie's.
Be so fr right now
“Oh I really hope Melanie is innocent because-” I hope she’s innocent because that would mean someone wasn’t *assaulted.* I’ve always loved Melanie’s music and still do because it’s helped me process a TON of trauma, but I still feel so horrible for Timothy. She doesn’t deserve any of this.
I agree
EXACTLY. Melanie's been one of my favourite artists for years, and this shattered all of that. I don't understand, she allegedly raped someone, how can you still listen to their music, especially the ones that talk on the things she did to Timothy. I hope and pray that Timothy can heal and have a good life after what Melanie and her fans did.
Exactly
@@lemonlimeenzyme569wait in 2019 didn’t someone find proof of Melanie’s “innocence”? Or at least someone told me there was proof of her innocence but that could be false
Exactly how I feel on the matter
SA DOESNT EXPIRE. when you get sa’d (im speaking from personal experience) it’s hard to talk about when the exact day was, hard to take it to court, and when it’s women on women it’s taken less seriously. pressuring someone into saying yes, saying nothing, IS NOT CONSENT.
Isn't there some law where it's like, you can report it until it's 10 years later or until your 21, whatever comes later or sumthing? That law doesn't affect me much bc Im gonna report my expirience once I'm an adult and can handle it better.
@@itz_faeIt depends on where you live. Are you safe right now??? Is your dad still around?
@@rachelstanger6079 wait oops idk why it autocorrected to my dad, it was some girl I was friends with a few years ago sorry 😭
speaking from my personal experience as well, i dont talk about it anymore bc when i did, nobody believed me or they victim blamed me. now some ppl i know assume things never happened bc i never told them
@@pearlboyscasette I don't talk about it because the guy who did it to me is probably dead now, he was really old. Plus my mum saw and accused me of having an affair with him. So not happening
I find it much more plausible that in a moment of pressure while Timothy was on a show she messed up the date, than everything that everyone said was a lie.
Why does it feel like every person I like turns out to be a grapist or childliker CAN WE PLEASE KEEP OUR HANDS TO OURSELVES LIKE ITS NOT THAT HARD 😭
There are so many famous people who are starting to get called out recently and it’s so bad. What does a child have to offer that a grown adult can’t??? And why can’t they take no as a answer? Does it hurt there ego or something? Like WHAT. I hope that this situation clears up so that Timothy can be left alone.
@@PurpleDUCKY24 I think it's a power thing. they crave power over someone they perceive weaker than them.
IKR 😭
Yeah wtff
Most likely to pedos and sickos it is difficult to do so
Why can't anyone be normal
real
real
Fr
she is. this is the only thing y’all have against her so y’all are running with it.
edit - to the comment ratioing me just know nothings been proven fact AT ALL and melanie will humble tf out of her in court. good day!
@@BitterSavoryBecause guess what dumbass Sexual assaulting someone isn't normal! Even if it's accusations if it's true there's no excusing this.
I remember seeing someone on tiktok say “Listening to mels unreleased songs even if she doesnt like it bc she doesn’t seem to like consent either x 💋” AND I WAS LIKE OH MY GOD 😭😭
WAHT😨
HAHA
Love that lol
I mean she didn’t say no to her unreleased music being listened to
@@wookushe did lol
As someone who is neurodivergent and struggles with communication, trauma, and anxiety, I think its always important to ask for consent, and to ask throughout if the person is okay. It’s important to place care and safety on an experience that can be so emotional for people. People need to do better and care more.
It's always ''believe the victim first'' until its a celebrity they love.
I personally don't think that's what we should do,I find it immature to think this way SPECIALLY when it's random ppl online we don't know
I find it immature to think this way when we are thinking of canceling someone,u can't cancel someone over a claim
@@VALENSlOexactly. Nobody knows what happened that night, just stay neutral.
@@VALENSlO I'm not saying how I support that, im neutral too, im just mentioning the irony about how people say ''believe the victim first'' but then change as soon as its someone they like
@@VALENSlO I say support the victim but don't necessarily go after the accused until there is proof. I don't think it's fair to write the victim off because that can do a lot of harm, even if they are lying, it still negatively affects real victims.
i find it disgusting how SA is classified as 'normal' on the internet now
Sadly, knowing how common it is on the Internet, and off. I can see why someone would say that, But it 1000% shouldn't be 'normalized'
@@notsoBrokenPhoneAcc616 Yeah, there's no way it should be normalized, that's fricking messed up, considering me myself was SAd
@@That-One-Silly-Val im so sorry to hear that bro, your valid and you deserve to have a voice
same
just, ''ew''.
Melanie need to fr speak up. Like her being quiet is not making her look good even if she didn’t do it, when it’s a serious topic like this, I don’t understand why she’s being quiet
Thank you!! 😩 I really think anybody with an online presence her size and an ounce of responsibility would have encouraged their fans to stop harassing and doxxing Timothy years ago. The silence is deafening.
She had no trouble writing diss tracks. 🙄
Bc maybe she doesn’t wanna act like a child and post it on the internet instead maybe she wants to take it to court
@@Nevadas_Numbers.Offical yeah I also don’t understand why none of them are trying to take this to court like this is a literal crime that is being accused
@@Nevadas_Numbers.Offical Taking her to court would be a response. She hasn't even aknowledged Timothy's statement, let alone implied she plans to take legal action.
@@lemonboyardee I’m saying Timothy should also take it to court she’s acting 13 putting on TikTok
whats crazy is this all disappeared from the mel fandom once k12 dropped too, everyone just forgot about it
Id just really like to bring up that whichever girl said that she was "worn down" by melanie to say yes is NOT consent. That is sexual coersion and when its done multiple times is abuse. (This is as clarification for people unknowing or unaware hope it helps)
LITERALLY!! This is so important that it’s still pressure to do a sexual act and is indeed still rape.
It’s disheartening to hear someone say “I said yes eventually so it’s alright” her feeling she needs to defend Melanie is so sad :[
@@donutcat5535timothy lied
People who say “but Melanie wouldn’t do that!” or “She’s too nice to do that!” Do you know what she’s like behind closed doors? Do you know how Melanie acts when people aren’t around or on camera? People trying to defend her, need to understand that THEY DO NOT KNOW HER. Yeah she comes off as nice, but that’s because that’s how she chooses to show herself to other people. We as fans can’t say what Melanie would or wouldn’t do or how she does and does not act. The only ones who REALLY know what happened are Timothy and Melanie, so people need to stop saying what happened WHEN THEY WERENT THERE…
The irony that Melanie has a song called "Dollhouse" which points out that some celebrities/people in general only look perfect for the public, but in private it's pretty much quite the opposite image lmao. Her fans should be aware that they don't truly know Melanie. Guess it's just shocking that a singer who denounces horrible topics to end up as a perpetrator (allegedly) of those topics.
@@len_4729 Exactly
@@len_4729 I love that song sm and a few others, unlike a lot her other songs during that time that felt like they were sexualizing kindergarten and child-like things. 😭
I saw a video of one of her fans reacting to the news and timothy's video and she literally kept saying that she didnt know this girl why would she believe her when shes known melanie for years, I was shocked that she was serious
its like how people dont belive shubble because they think wilber cound do no wrong
The amount of 12 year olds on my feed saying "Even if she's guilty I'm still gonna support her. She makes good music!" Is concerning.
Edit: I'm not talking about separation of artist and art. Kids are saying that they will still buy merchandise and love her bc it's not that big of a deal.
Oh... I'm not support her as a artist but just listen to her songs that aren't on Spotify or her actual account
(I EDITED THIS BECAUSE HOW I WORDED IT MADE ME GET ATTACKED ANYWAY YOUR EDIT IS VALID TY FOR CLARIFICATION!!)
I’m on Timothy’s side most definitely but still questioning if Mel is innocent. If not I do have all of her songs downloaded that were re uploaded and separating the art from the artist is very important. If you don’t agree that’s okay, that’s just my thoughts.
(pls don’t reply tho I get that im probably a bad person for this)
@@Dollness_xoxoyea that’s fine as long as you can find a way to enjoy it without giving her money directly or indirectly it’s completely fine personally I feel sad and gross listening to her music but I’m happy if some people are able to listen to it still
@@JolieG659yea that’s fine as long as you don’t listen to it through her acc cause that gives her money
I had one of her fans in the comments of a video tell me they DID NOT CARE! That Timothy wasn't going to "make them stop supporting Melanie and listening to her music". Of course, nothing is wrong with listening to her music. As long as you're willing to hold her accountable and not sweep the allegations under the rug. However, saying you don't care is god awful. I was disgusted...
i really appreciate you bringing this back up in 2024 because i remember being there in 2017 as a fan of the crybaby album. her tweeting “she never said no” sealed the nail in the coffin - i don’t care if the allegations are true or not, that is r*pe apologist language. every time ive tried to tell people about this (when they claim she could do no wrong/didn’t do those things), people are so quick to deny and defend her, but what she said was completely unforgivable, and the way she “responded” with diss tracks was childish and irresponsible.
As another ex-Melanie fan, I was hurt by this. I was at the trilogy tour and had spent a few hundred dollars on her merchandise. I agreed with her political beliefs and she stood for all the right things. I felt like I could trust her and I was clearly wrong trusting a celebrity. This video helped me get the right view on this situation and I have stopped listening to her and have scored all my merch away.
Stay safe
She said she never said no to what we wanted to do TOGETHER get it right.
This was my experience as well. I explained my logic to my sister and she just said she’d keep listening to her. It broke my heart when this happened and I ceased listening to her music altogether.
Also-is it not sus at all that Melanie had her comments TURNED OFF for at least five years?
@sabrinashitpost she turns off her Comments bc she wants them to comment on her portals album basically
Bruh did you read the last part of her sentence???? Seriously you're worse than Twitter!
Whether or not Melanie did it, the response from her fans is SICKENING, the amount of people saying “I wouldn’t care even if she did it” is horrific. I’m not taking sides either way as I never really cared for her or her music, but it’s one thing to show indifference and another to actually attack an alleged victim
Honestly, I’ll admit I *was* a die hard fan. But now that I’ve heard about this I’m just not sure about her anymore! I don’t want to just outright say Timothy was lying but imo it’s really hard to accept or believe it. Especially after I’ve been listening to her ever since I was 6!! I just don’t know anymore! But I hope it goes well and everything gets sorted out eventually. But this whole situation is just too much imo
@@GabriellaSalmeron-uq4ds totally, I mean I get that it’s a hard situation for fans because the allegations can appear kinda sketchy, but I personally wouldn’t even want to chance supporting her in case they really were true, it doesn’t mean stop listening to her music, but I guess we just have to accept we know literally nothing about who celebrities really are as people and we never will, chances are most of them are terrible
the timothy ones are worse honestly
@@angel7937 are they? I’d rather side with an (alleged) liar than an (alleged) rapist
@@angel7937 explain?
Even if Timothy wasn’t a victim of Mel herself, she was a victim of all her fans. She was doxxed and received death threats, she didn’t deserve that
Even if i dont like timothy, i will NEVER say she deserved all of this. The fandom is being represented by these sickening fans, and its sad. The mel fandom has been so toxic and hateful towards people and its so fucking heartbreaking to see. Timothy never deserved to be doxxed or get death threats. I apologize for this side of the fandom.
also the fact that Melanie endorsed and enabled her fans to attack others for her, no matter who ends up being innocent, her second statement thanking her fans for doing all the dirty work instead of making a statement to set the record straight is nasty
No one should go through that stuff. No one should get hate until proven guilty, this goes for both of them. Instead of picking sides, people should try to find evidence and proof or wait for one of them to expose themselves.
THIS THIS THIS
That happens all the time online even with randoms
As someone who was a melanie fan since crybaby, the fandom needs a fucking reality check.
They could get all the proof they want and still deny it.
@@giggles36 yeah because they're naive children who have already resorted to worshipping melanie, sadly. and most these kids dont fully grasp how BAD grape even is. ive seen many claim that even if melanie uhhh. was a felonie if you catch my drift, they'd still support her
@@wanderer_808 The worst part is that most of them are older. I heard some allegations abt her when I was younger, and immediately stopped listening to her music/supporting her until I heard that they were just rumors(not sure if that still rings true) Age shouldn’t be an excuse. If you don’t understand the full extent of assaulting someone, you shouldn’t be online
SAME ND REAL. mel could say "yea i did it, it was in the past and ive changed im sorry timothy" and ppl would d1(k ride so bad and forgive nd forget it all
fr.
I would like to remind people that celebrities are essentially characters. The Melanie you see on tv or online is not really her, it's a made up persona designed to make as much money as possible. Same with every other celebrity.
as someone who was a fan of melanie martinez when she just started making music (i was around 10), i never knew the full extent of this situation. all i knew was what my friend had told be about her being accused and then disproven. i’m very unsure of what to think about all of the information, but i don’t want to believe melanie at this point. i’m a firm believer of separation of art from the artist, but as my room is practically surrounded by melanie merch from me finding portals, i don’t know if i want it up anymore. thank you for posting this video, louis, you’ve helped me understand some more of the situation
Same, I like her music and I’m sad to discover this. I haven’t known her music for very long but I have started to listen to her more recently and since I don’t have much social media I wouldn’t have known if not for this video.
Same I was between 10-12 around the whole situation and was so confused cause all the information felt like it was being spit out like fire works so I just dropped it til everything cooled down but I was also sweeped into a few more dramas on the internet about my favorite RUclipsrs so I just forgot about it til a week or two after I week to the trilogy tour
this is great. so few of her fans seem to have the self awareness and compassion to change. i think honestly having all that merchandise around you will only remind you of her crimes. it's up to you, separation of art and the artist ofc, you dont have to throw it away. you dont have to stop listening to her music. but id personally stop supporting her and buying merchandise. and imo there's plenty of artists with way more depth and a better sound than melanie has. especially with portals... but im very very relieved that you have the sense to see through all the denying and shaming and victim blaming happening. fuck melanie martinez. everyone tells women who come out against male celebrities that they just want attention, fame, etc. these are the same tactics people have been using against victims forever. to shame them into silence. id rather side with a potential victim than a potential rapist. we have to remember, we know NOTHING about the celebrities we worship and adore. we only know them as much as they want us to, as the image they portray to us. she isnt some vulnerable, innocent, emotional, creative magical fairy woman. she's a regular person. who happens to be a piece of shit and ruined a woman's life.
this is so real of you
Omg I’m actually scared to watch this now, I’ve known her music for so long :(
I would personally rather believe an alleged liar than an alleged rapist.
Thats what I'm saying
PREACH!🔥🔥🔥
EXACTLY
Fr also it’s pretty obvious that Melanie is the liar considering she literally admitted to it in that tweet and just proceeded to contradict herself several more times I don’t get how anyone is on her side she made herself look like a complete fool
Same, I was a Mel stan until all this happened, I'm on Timothy's side until Mel decides to speak up :(
did yall see the tiktoks that said "idc, she can 🍇 me too" or "me next" I thought those were a little insane
😨
WHAT 😨
yea, i’ve seen those. im neutral but those are actually so insane
NO-
@@ARandomRUclipsr0 I haven’t seen them but WTF
When Timothy’s story first came out back in 2017, I feel like I was the only one who put my foot down and said I don’t want to follow someone with allegations. Glad you made this video Louis. And I just want to say that Melanie was one of my top 3 artists at that time.
“ believe all victims! “ until it’s your idol being accused. “guilty until proven innocent! “ until it’s your idol being accused.
innocent until proven guilty BECAUSE TIMOTHY HAS NO PROOF OF ANYTHING 😭 🙏🏻
I'm NOT supporting Melanie but I've never heard guilty until proven innocent only innocent until proven guilty
@@The_R3AL_Akutagawa yes bc it doesnt work that way in court of law, this person doesnt know what theyre saying lmfao
@@floreiii Right. Melanie is techincally innocent. Its been 7 years and she still cant provide any evidence. She even said that its just her word against melanie.. what is the point of all of this? I think its her borderline personality disorder causing her to self sabotage. She got doxxed and is still to this day harassed over her initial statement, I dont know why she keeps bringing it back up. She needs to move on. If she knows she cant provide any evidence, then she needs to try and heal and move on. Again... 7 years... Let melanie go. Its evident how hard her BPD is coming into play with this.
i do not believe melanie & won’t support her until she is proven innocent but, guilty until proven innocent is wrong. it is innocent until proven guilty so melanie is still innocent until proven guilty
I saw the title and was like "Man, not Melanie Martinez" istg no one can escape the downfall
EDIT: NO i did not know about this years ago. I was a lot younger at the time and was hyperfixated on my little pony. Please stop asking me why i didnt know about this before, beause i was a kid.
Fr Melanie was my fav artist and I relate to a lot of her songs on the k-12 and crybaby album, it's sad that this happened :(
these rumors already got debunked before😓
im not gonna respond anymore, i dc anymore🤦🏾
@@ARandomRUclipsr0no they HAVEN'T. Melanie just DENIED THEM, victim blamed Timothy, and her fan harassed Timothy off of the Internet. All Melanie said in response was "she never said NO" so she never said YES either. Don't even try that.
@@laurentrevethan1802 “she never said no to what WE CHOSE to do TOGETHER”
i think Mel missed some body language or something because she perceived the action as consentual…. where did she victim blame her?
stop responding to me i will NOT reply anymore😪
LITERALLY. like the next one is gonna be the sweetest person (seemingly), js watch
I'm sadly not that surprised anymore when I hear an artist I liked is a total creep.
Same 😕
It really sucks….
Melanie has a song where she talks about kids getting jerked off on a bus. There were signs😭🙏
Im just waiting on taylor swifts and beyonces downfall.
It's not really surprising anymore when one by one they are all being exposed. There are good people out there of course but there are times where it's hard to believe so
Melanie is 29 now. If she continues this silence instead of at least apologizing for misunderstanding Timothy's feelings.....that would make Melanie seem incredibly guilty. REGARDLESS Timothy does not deserve anything that has been done to her. It is ridiculous that people are proud about treating someone that way.
Honestly the whole situation sucks, it's always "believe the victim until it's a celebrity being accused"
i commented on a video reminding everyone ‘hey!! remember we need to support the victim until blah blah blah’ like a normal person and i received many insane comments
“yeah, i’m just gonna believe some random person on the internet” (as if melanie isn’t just a random person at the end of the day 💀)
“believe the victim? are you insane? are you sick?” this one shocked me… people are so strange :/
@@pookiewookiemeowmeow and the fact that Melanie responded, the one thing that stuck out while reading that was "she never said no" which practically admitted it
@rorocherri both you and the pookie wookie person are 100% correct
@@rorocherri I’m tired of people just screaming believe the victim. Yes believe the victim but also innocent until proven guilty??? What about actually having proof? If it was automatically believe the victim, then do you know how many innocent people would be in jail right now? Sometimes you need actually use your brain and not just mindlessly follow what’s popular or thrown at you.
as an sa survivor it’s always innocent until proven guilty. my abuser accused me and one of my friends of SAing them and fucked up our lives. it’s not always blindly believe the victim, its dont support anyone until you have enough information to.
You said I'm sorry in this video more than Melanie has.
DAMNNNNN this one got me. Jaw on the floor. Do better Melanie.
HEPL
why did he say sorry
@@samuraikudzi because he was pronouncing melanie wrong
@VilleUTTPwhat
i’ve been threatened, almost doxxed & harassed for talking ab this over the years. i am SO GLAD that ppl are finally telling Timothy’s story & seeing MM for who she is.
Who r u?
@@abiliv-lf9tz who are YOU?
@@dragu_la I'm confused on why they was almost doxxed
Were the Mel Martinez fans actually just doxxing ppl who sided w/Timothy??
?
But we don't know "who she is" There's been no actual proof against Mel other than that statement that is *years old*.
I love the “I’m SORRY”s every time you say MelAnie 😆
I used to be a huge melanie stan. This is genuinely just sad. I wish she would actually say something about the allegations.
She did say something and it was very lame and not even really an apology lmao
@@Cyber_g0re what is she supposed to say? She’s already made a statement years ago. Nothing she says now is gonna change what she said then
She made two statements already
There’s nothing to say that wasn’t said 7 years ago???
I don’t think she rlly needs to tbh. Timothy didn’t bring any new info up, and she made statements years ago
I remember Melanie Martinez supposedly and officially replying to the Oliver Tree situation on TikTok, saying they ended their relationship on good terms and that the fan rumors are nonsense. If she actually said this, I’m just shocked she’d rather respond to a less serious rumor that smart fans can figure out if they’re not a 10-year-old shitposting on their mama’s iPad, instead of addressing something way more serious.
I'm an abuse survivor and was a massive Melanie Martinez stan before the news in 2017, I dropped all of it so fast because this all felt too real and too right. Then her statement was the final nail in the coffin because it was the classic denial spin. 🚫
Yeah I’ve been a fan of hers when I was 7 and hearing everything has been a shock but I’ve actually dropped both the fandom and the music since there might be a chance that she did something horrible. Also I’m so sorry and I hope ur doing better now❤
@Rayscales6 I appreciate you and your kind thoughts internet stranger, I'm trying. I'm sorry someone you were supposed to be able to look up to let you down.🫶
I’m really sorry at that. I’ve never experienced it but I am sure it was bad(I doubt words could describe it). I really hope you find peace in life. ❤
@Potterhead1111 dude thank you for your kind words. Honestly, what I tell people and what I want to say to you is I'm so glad you don't. Its insidious tendrils creep into every corner of your life, though my case could be considered a rather extreme one, this is true for so many no matter the specifics. It's a day by day process, I like to think I'm getting somewhere though....I'm still here and that counts in my book
to those who say "she couldnt have done that she was a victim too!" people who are victims of S/A are more likely to commit the same crimes. nearly every r@p!$t i know was also S/A'd when they were kids or teens. its a common occurrance since the most common mindset is 'oh it happened to me and i'm ok so they will be too'
its the same way with abuse from parents. when victims are taught that this behavior is okay they are more likely to do the same thing to others
People who are assaulted are not more likely to assault someone else. Dont spread that narrative. Its just not true. Are there cases of people being assaulted and then assaulting other people? Yes. But its categorically untrue to say a someone whos a victim will more than likely assault someone else. Do not feed into this narrative bc no victim in their right/healthy mind would be okay doing it to someone else.
If it’s not a yes it’s not consent
It’s interesting to me how her fandom falsely accused her former boyfriend Oliver Tree of abuse, yet vehemently force Timothy into silence when she speaks up about ACTUAL sexual crimes being committed against her. It just proves how performative they are, “support victims” until it’s their favorite music artist ig.
They want to save her...
Frrr
Oliver didn’t even do anything. From what I’ve heard, him and Melanie ended on good terms 😭
Exactly they were always heavily projecting onto him
Wilbur Soot 😒
I like both mel and oliver tree she never said he abused her and its not all fans who do this. Read my OG comment i state good points in how this guy is taking mels statement out of context.
If Melanie did what she is accused of, it makes her music so much more fucked up, Melanie literally has atleast one Song abt SA/🍇
she has an unrealsed song about trafficking
@@Baileymcm555what the actual fuck
Its CLEARLY something she thinks about a lot. Its uncomfortable.
Strawberry shortcake is about that i think.
@@Cat19986Nope. It’s Tag, You’re It.
"I would never be intimate with someone without their absolute consent." - Melanie on her second statement.
her fans are the same people who would say “believe all victims” but once its their favorite artist they will do anything to defend her… absolutely the worst fanbase of all time
believe all victims until it's someone you like. believe all victims until the victim is a problematic person
Exactly! Liking someone’s music is no excuse for supporting something like SA, they all have parasocial relationships with her too from what I’ve seen. It’s actually sickening to me
Exactly, even in this comment section
@@k2a2l2 I understand but not every fan is like that
Don’t put everyone in one box you weirdo
had a argument with a mel defender the other day, she said timothy brought the sex game and her bringing it automatically meant she couldn’t change her mind on playing it and had too, mel fans are insane
Not me having the same argument it’s such cookie cutter bs
As a Melanie fan (please don't come for me, I'm a fellow victim I'm just staying neutral and keeping my two cents to myself) that is the most bullshit statement I've heard in my life like
Consent can be WITHDRAWN wtf do they mean "she can't change her mind"??? 😭😨😨
Well and Timothy bought it with joking intent. She explains this in a video, she found the game at a thrift store with Mel and thought it would be funny to take it back with them. Timothy would take it unseriously while Mel would slowly make advances and get suggestive about it
@@LyntzbartzkyPerez you said me which im pretty sure is a misspelling of mel.
melanie and her fans/defenders REALLY need to learn the damn 'FRIES' consent rule, genuinely so tired of seeing this type of argument used to defend perpetrators and blame victims,
(for those who are genuinely unaware, F- Freely Given, R- Reversible, I- Informed, E- Enthusiastic, S- Specific)
As someone who loves Melanie's music, this is so heartbreaking. Even if the allegations aren't true, I still feel horrible for Timothy. Nobody should have to go through what they did.
Temp fan spotted
me too. I dont even know how to feel, her music has helped me with so much in my life. it’s… insane to think that this has been going on for years and people didn’t know about Melanie’s actions until now. It really is heartbreaking
@@eval_969now I feel like absolute crap for wanting to listen to her music- I love her music so much and I think im going to delete and remake all of my Spotify playlists now 😢
I liked Melanie's music, but idk what to do or how to feel. I got a hoodie from the merch, and I just feel sick to my stomach,
There are other better artists.
Personally I think Timothy is full of shit and not because I’m a Melanie “Stan” I have supported many other woman who go through these things. I will tell you that if the allegations are PROVEN true I would drop Melanie so fast. It’s just so sus with her that I have trouble really believing it. People say they’d rather believe and alleged liar over an alleged rapist but imagine being called a rapist and you’re actually innocent.. and that persons life is ruined forever and they will be forever known as a “rapist” People forget that people lie all the time to ruin lives and people are so easy to believe it :/ and of course it’s just as awful if someone did those things to you and no one believes you. This is why full investigations are thrown in people lol
having duplicates of a photo in ur camera roll isn’t weird at all so that being their leg they stand on is crazy
I'm not saying this 100% happened, but I've noticed that sometimes if you post a picture on twitter (and I think Instagram but I could be wrong, I haven't been on that app in years) you'll end up with a duplicate of the picture in your gallery. So it could be something like that? Idk how you wouldn't notice that though unless she forgot to delete the extra one.
ok but why was it *only* that picture? Every other picture correlated with dates on her insta perfectly but somehow that specific one "messes up"??
@@Anna_Crossing i think its genuinely just random, i had a picture that was created in 2020 but it popped up in my camera roll as 2016, might've just been an insane coincidence
Depending on the updatez and settings changes insta forced on you, heah it's absolutely possible. A few updates reset or added the toggles for saving a copy @@Anna_Crossing
@VilleUTTP Bait uttp
“melanie wouldn’t do that!!” do yk her? were u there?
the same thing applies to timothy
@@Mrdogy-_- soundin dumb as hell right now.
were you there?
and what do you know timothy isn’t lying? nobody was there
@@me.rose.combined.channel I would much rather believe a potential liar than a potential rapist. Hope this helps!
Not to mention-(I’m an SA victim-I was SA’d via coercion) which is the same thing that Maddie carina was talking about-pressuring someone to say yes is assaulting them s*xually-my ex boyfriend did this to me, after seeing all of this put together-I am no longer a fan of melaine or her music-I am so horrified and disgusted-dear god why can’t anyone be normal??
im so sorry, :(. i hope u are doing better now
@@wutthehell I am, I have a partner who loves me-and respects my boundaries, they are honestly the best person ever and I adore them more than words can describe
Thank you so much for the kind comment ❤️
The problem is melanie didnt say "she didnt say no" but she said "she never said no to anything we chose to do together" while it doesnt mean yes its clear a consensual yes was not given so no further actions should have been taken.
RIGHT? I hate how everybody is just ignoring this? Consent is so much deeper than a yes and no. It can be revoked too.
Melanie should explain what she meant by that, but if it means what I think it means then she sucks. Consent is VERY important
THANK YOU
Ofc consent is always so important but she never said no doesn't mean she never said yes. A lot of people have taken that statement and run with it. Also, implied consent can be given. In truth, only Mel and timothy knows what happened and people need to stop putting words in Mel's mouth. She didn't say timothy never said yes.
@@D0T_IS_A_TH3R14N melanie said that as a direct response to timothy, timothy said “i said no many times” something along the lines of that. thats why melanie said “she never said no to what we chose to do together”
As someone who was there in 2017, I think much of her audience was too young to genuinely comprehend what was being said especially what it meant for their favorite arist.
We could see through the bullsht of the alleged victim, tik tok gen can't
@@Maletearsasoil classic delusional fan trying to denounce a rape victim bc the abuser is their idol
I just thought like; didn’t we already go through this back in 2017? Ugh this Tiktok-gen is so brainrotted 🥲
I once commented on a post about Melanie’s music and the person in the video said “Comment your fav artists and what you think of Melanie!” And I said that I liked Nirvana and my favorite song was Man Who Sold The World live in NYC, and that I didn’t really like Melanie’s music and thought her merch was overpriced. Some kid got mad and replied to my comment “Shame on you! Your body SHREDDED! Your meat fed to DOGS! Your bones burned in HELL!” This is what she actually replied too-
I don’t think kids know what “opinions” are, like sure people (even me) get a little angry bc of an opinion, but HARRASING SOMEONE is not cool dude, i cant even
Just so u know you have an amazing music taste her fans are crazy
Somebody called me fat and told me to “get up out of my wheelchair” I’m not even disabled 😭😭😭
i love both nirvana and mel, im so sorry abt the toxic fandom
@@IAMDOLLP4RTSI love your Courtney love pfp, also I agree too, I love grunge a lot
as a victim of m0lestation, recent r@pes by my childhood best friend, and a huge fan of melanie in the past (and multiple other artists), we need to remember that saying, “celebrities are people too.” it has a few different interpretations like they deserve the same respect and privacy or they make mistakes but fans of artists need to start realizing, yes, they ARE people so they can be just as terrible and disgusting as the next person. celebrities should never get a pass just because theyre hot or because they are good at what they do or because they have done good things in the past. they are just like us and worse a majority of the time
The whole time he kept saying "malaney" I was completely gaslit like "oh shit have I been pronouncing it wrong?!?!"
Oml me too 😭
SAME-
Same 😂
@@twinkletoes982 what did u pronounce it as?
What makes me really mad about Melanie is that she has never even once asked her fans to stop what they are doing. They are making the situations so much worse and are honestly disgusting
Melanie even made a post saying something along the lines of just her basically thanking her fans for all that they have done, which is just sickening.
Honestly, idols can’t control their fans…😐
@@Nick.loves.men. encouraging your fans to continue cyberbullying your victim is definitely interesting! she even told her fans to not harrass oliver tree but not timothy LMAO
I think she can control them but can't,I think she's seen the fans who support her who are kind,but not the other sides of the fans
@@m0ch4_t3a bro, no one has full control over anyone. If that was the case, we wouldn’t have free will 😐 even if Melanie told her fans to stop, there would still be fans that try to hurt Timothy.
i find it appalling that people doubt Timothy cause she came out and said her abusers name long after. i couldn't even begin to explain what rape could do to a person, and it's completely normal for her to not want to say her abuser's name in that moment, or even at all. it takes an unbelievable amount of courage and bravery to say who abused you, and i don't believe people should doubt her for naming her abuser later. in fact, it'd be weirder for her to immediately blurt it out (not to say that that's weird of course, it's just unusual) considering how hard it is to come out, wether the abuser is famous or not.
define rape
@@onlycows726 umm…huh? I don’t know why you asked that, but I suppose I’ll answer. Rape is non-consensual sex. If the person didint look straight into your eyes and said ‘yes’ by their free will- and I repeat, BY THEIR FREE WILL, it is rape. Hope this helps, I guess.
@@rivereexo did Timothy not have free will in the situation? she was under no mortal danger, no threats, no blackmail, no physical or mental power imbalance. What exactly was stopping Timothy from getting Melanie tf off of her? Wasn't it free will? Was her transportation to a more private setting an act of her free will? Were her clothes being magically removed so she could be penetrated with a sex toy her free will? All of that sounds like free will to me. Unless you're saying Melanie has super strength and carried Timothy over her shoulder to said private setting where she used her super strength to tear Timothy's clothing off. I don't know, Timothy's definition of "rape" is awfully vague and unidentifiable. How could she have been raped in a situation that was created by choices she made? She's a grown woman, what power imbalance does Melanie have over her exactly? And before you say 'Melanie was a known singer!!' Timothy herself never specified that in her past or future statement. If this is what passes as rape then where is the line drawn? How exactly did Melanie force her into anything? Because Timothy lacks a backbone to make her boundaries clear?
@@rivereexopreach so many people think its okay if they say "no" like 5 times then say yes the 6th time. or if they make a face that looks like they want it (i did that and they thought i wanted it but HELL NAH)
literally!!! Like im still on the fence a tiny bit about what the whole truth of the situation cause ive only seen this video (and thats obviously not gonna be completely accurate), but its such a gross thing to judge a potential victim for :(
i mean to this day i have never told my friends the name of my SAer, does that make me less valid ??? no, obviously not
No means no. Silence means no. I’m not sure about this means no. Yes means yes. anything thing else MEANS NO!
Luv this guy!
That is THREE people who personally knew Melanie who instantly believed Timothy. That should be more than enough for Timothy’s story to have at least an 80% chance of being true. Yikes 💀
Yeah and for some reason NOBODY talk about this some fan even ignore this when I heard that this was the ultimate proof for defending Timothy
Lol you got 3 ppl who actually knew and worked with Melanie who openly stated they dumped her after that & that her behavior towards them was what made it believable, and no Melanie Stan bats an eye
Then Globelamp whose “friendship” with Timothy was over twitter & through text switches up & calls Tim a liar bc she didn’t defend her from Melanie’s crazy fans & who sucks up to Melanie now gets instantly believed by fans LMAO
@@idezwitch LMFAO THIS IS SO TRUE 💀💀💀💀
@Tsukino2799 They tried saying Madeleine who came forward about her experience with Melanie was lying because she was friends with Timothy. Melanie fans don't understand Madeleine was friends with Melanie first. Melanie pushed Madeleine's boundaries and basically pushed her into intimacy. But they discredit Madeleine due to her supporting Timothy
@@Tourmalineghost wow I didn’t realize she was friends with Mel first! Is there like photos of them & dates of when they were friends, lol sorry for bugging you I’m just in the process of making a video of my own debunking the claim that Tim’s story was “inconsistent”.
I always thought it was cut and dry but finding out that the woman who she coerced is a SEPARATE woman than the one who was chased off the Internet is so horrifying to me.
She not only assaulted one woman. But TWO. Because pressuring people into saying yes is NOT consent
They’re not different women. They’re both Timothy Heller
@@Dvgteethproof??
@@Dvgteeth I mean the one that spoke up in alliance with Timothy. The one who said that Melanie wore her down
@@EranRaye I remember seeing a tweet about that person saying it was a man and not being Melanie
@@BlueberryPl4ntYeah the accusor at the time came out and said it wasn't true if I remember right..... Getting kinda sick of Louis not researching at all and having kinda half-baked takes :/ Seems like power may be getting too alluring.... Unless these are all new but idk, I didn't think they were?
at the age of 12 i became in love with Melanie’s music, it helped me cope from being a victim of SA. now finding out that Melanie’s done this, it really crushes me. and the fact that she wrote so many songs like “Strawberry Shortcake” and others, it really hurts bc i’ve used those song to help me, and now i find out she’s done the thing that she’s singing against. it’s really devastating to find out
Wait but we don’t know if she did it 100% so hold on there (I don’t pick sides)
We don't know if its fully true.
@Klee.Klee.Help
Yeah, we don't know 100%, but Melanie hasn't even denied it?
@@cluckerchick9425 yeah. Thats true
@@moa_bookworm nor am i, but it still hurts to find out what she could of possibly of done. even though shes made many songs against R@pe, and SA. so that’s manly the reason why im devastated, and upset
No because the "I'm Sorry" flashing on the screen every time he said Mealanie made me laugh so much every time lollllll
i really hope timothy is doing ok, whether the allegations are correct or not, she’s still being tormented by melanie fnas
I've been listening to Mel's music since I was a kid and I have to say,those weirdos harassing the victim is just sick.
As someone who was SA’d in a scarily similar way by a women, this is why wlw SA is never taken seriously
I’m so sorry you went through that. I hope you’re doing okay 🤍
💕 I really hope you're okay 💕
@@wowacoolusername if Melanie was a man this would be different
16:51 i believe Timothy on the multiple of the same photo thing because my phone tends to re-save photos from 2015 of me when i was little, so it could just be that her phone did too
if the "yes" had hesitation for whatever reason, it wasn't a "yes". if the "yes" was pressures, its not a "yes". if the victim stayed quiet, that does not equal a "yes". if the victim tried to politely decline or rearrange it, they were saying "no" in possibly the nicest way possible. if you support the supposed gr@p!st before they are proven innocent with REAL receipts, automatic blocked and DNI. what happened to "the accused is guilty until proven innocent" or "the accuser is innocent until proven guilty"??
Tmf pfp of course you have a good take🔥🔥🔥
@@neopolitanicecream4871 tmf opinions are always the correct ones trust!
KOHANE FAN TOO!!! GOOD AND AMAZING TAKE!!!
Tmf pfp.
AND U ALSO LIKE KOHANE
GUYS! as it has been stated BUYING ITEMS DOES NOT EQUAL CONSENT!!! just because she bought items or maybe even brought them for that purpose DOES NOT MEAN ITS OKAY FOR THEM TO BE USED AGAINST HER WILL!!! PLUS! Consent CAN BE WITHDRAWN and that is COMPLETELY VALID! All of these fans saying OH WELL SHE BOUGHT THE STUFF please SHUT UP 🙏 she did not ask for it to be used against her will and saying one victim is lying harms all victims.
this argument has such a simple explanation provided by Timothy herself. It was Timothy's idea to buy the game as a joke, then Melanie's to play it, so yes, it can 100% still have been nonconsensual
@@LyntzbartzkyPerez exactly thank you!
It sucks that this had to be said
@@Clown_Curry it really is
@@Clown_Curryfr, it’s like they choose to act slow
its scary how you can't speak up against ur abuser if they're popular/famous or smth, because like, most ppl wouldn't believe you or smth
edit: 1,5k likes??? thats the most i have ever gotten 😨tysm guys 💗💗 have an awesome day hope yall do well
real
The issue is that she has no proof. People come out against famous people ALL the time. You're on youtube, I know youve seen the mountain of youtubers being exposed in just this year. They all get settled because there is actual proof and the stories align.. timothy has nothing. She is just asking us to believe her words, which unfortunately you cant do, because false allegations exist. Melanie is innocent, until evidence can be brought against her to say otherwise. Thats how it works. This has been going on since 2017 and nothing has come from it for 7 years!!! The 2 girls need to settle it on their own, Timothy needs to stop coming to the media over and over. Its the same thing again and again.
Exactly it's so sad especially when it's other women tearing you down and telling you to get over it. The same women who supposedly call themselves girls girls
and then when said celebrity is finally outted for what they've done those same mfs who said you was lying would be like "I always had a bad feeling about ______"
They don’t even have to be famous trust me.
I didn’t believe her in 2017 because her fan base told me it was “proven to be lies”. But I never realized how many people were standing with her that everyone was just burying.
As a die-hard melanie fan, we shouldn't be so quick to support someone we only know through a screen. I get it, people get attached to their idols and want to protect their name at all costs, but when it comes to serious allegations like this (especially this) we should take the time to see both sides of the story and as fans of melanie we should hold her accountable. It is not looking good for melanie, but what's more important to you? Your security with someone you only know through a carefully crafted screen, or a victim who was close to melanie and who's being supported by others who were also very close to melanie in the past. All I'm saying is, don't be so quick to support someone unless you know who you're supporting. Don't be blinded by rose-colored glasses, guys
Im still a Melanie fan but I don’t believe either of them. I like Melanie’s music, not her.
I'm also a die-hard melanie fan(to the point of obsession, I need help), but I don't know what to think. I don't know who to support. I absolutely am sorry Timothy is traumatized, I just don't think Melanie did it or if she did, she didn't understand she was doing something wrong at the time. I love her music, and she seems like a sweetheart and someone I'd love to get to know, but you're right. We don't know her, and that's actually terrifying.
To a point, I don't believe either. Till its all sorted out, I can't support either one. Melanie could have worded her statement better and Timothy could stop being kinda sketchy.
Both could be in the wrong.
Edit: sorry for the long ass comment, enjoy your day!
@@-__Ast0lf0__- I agree 100%
This has been known and open information for years. Its never looked good.
I also love her music
As an ex fan, it's actually shocking that she still has a career. By saying "she didn't say no" YOU'RE STILL ADMITTING TO DOING SOMETHING 😭 and on top of that APPLAUD your fan base for bullying the victim off the Internet...
Exactly all these stupid kids and Stan’s saying theirs no proof when she admitted to it herself
She never applauded her fans for running her off the Internet, she thanked her fans for finding out that the date was wrong in her timeline and Timothy DID say that the date was wrong. That doesn't mean I'm on Mel's side tho, I'm neutral in this situation. I don't trust Mel but don't really believe Timothy either
@@allistairgeorge8965 ahh right thx
@@ponchosavage5207 EXACTLY and the language used tells you a lot
@@aisforaya very true 😭😭😭 I still enjoy her music but not her. I am going to stop buying merch too
This is why you don't worship or blindly follow celebs.
Even if they appear like nice people on the surface
@@pizzahutz_inthegarage Agree
I’m not saying Melanie is guilty or innocent, but I love the fact that everyone mentions the fact that Melanie says “she never said no” but completely overlooks the part where she says “to anything WE CHOSE to do TOGETHER” just saying
it's still a gross thing to say
@@viper_lvr I completely agree, saying “she never said no” is a very gross thing to say, but she also said that whatever happened between them they chose to do to together, Ofc that doesn’t mean it’s the truth, just find it interesting how that part of the statement gets ignored is all.
consent doesn’t work this way, they CHOSE to have a sleepover and play swex game that looked silly, but for timothy it was only about spending time together and nothing more, but for melanie that playfulness and her friend’s love towards her was a sign timothy also wanted it, especially since she was high. that full sentence doesn’t sound any better in context, its even worse knowing timothy was broken down and let it happen just for melanie to stop pressuring her into saying yes. considering maddie, former mel’s friend also having the same experience it sounds just awful.
ITS MELANIE NOW? CAN PEOPLE PLEASE KEEP YOUR HANDS TO THEMSELVES?
You mean Melanie needs to keep her hands to herself right
This isn't new dude... Stuff came out about her years ago.
This isn't new, those allegations came out in 2017/2018, but people just decided to ignore it and forget about it for the sake of continuing to support a celebrity
@@elliot__agares When I was younger, I heard abt the situation, but I also heard that the allegations were false😭 It’s so hard to stay on top of everything when her stans are so toxic and adamant abt keeping everything hidden.
@@elliot__agares It doesn't help that Melanie has such a devoted community that all it takes is for rumors to spread that it's a lie and they'll gaslight themselves into believing it is one atp. Plus most people that are actually paying attention to this are ex Melanie fans or current ones.
THE WAY MY JAW DROPPED WHEN YOU SAID "CROCHETING" BC THATS WHAT IM DOING! wow, i used to be a huge melanie fan but I'm 100% rethinking it now
Same..
I'm also crocheting and I completely missed the part where crocheting was mentioned
this was more critical of melanie and thats okay but i would also recommend watching one more critical of timothy so you can see both sides
Its just cancel culture if you think about what mel said years ago shes replying to timothys statement so when she says she didnt say no she is replying to when she was saying she said no. people are just taking it out of context to cancel her. just makes her piggyback song more real
when i first started listening to Melanie these allegations were years old and i had no idea about them till recently. i have a hard time letting her go because literally last month i was at her concert and now it just makes me sick to my stomach i wish she would speak up but i don’t think she ever will.
She doesn't need to speak up. She's made two official statements alongside speaking more freely about it on Piggyback and Fire Drill. She's said all she needs to say and has moved on, meanwhile Timothy can't do anything without having to constantly remind you
same. started listening to her a few yrs ago when these were already about 4yrs old and last month js went to the trilogy tour also. i thought they had been debunked and now that they’re resurfacing it sucks butt cheeks
@@dreamwclkeroh no, how dare her victim speak up😢
@@brain3aterrikr I put all the trilogy merch away in a box, not sure what to do
@@dreamwclkerit's almost like Timothy was the fvcking victim or something, and every time Melanie gets popular she's reminded of the person who, idk, violated her and her consent or smth. Hm. And and Melanie has the privilege to never be held accountable for that because she has a rabid fanbase of people who will dox and attack that poor woman EVERY TIME she tries to get justice.
This situation is heart breaking, i hope melanie is innocent, not just because i love her but also because that means that no one was assaulted.
Okay, as a Melanie fan myself, I found out about this around two weeks ago. Never had it EVER crossed my mind to automatically assume, because I loved Melanie, that she could do no wrong. I can and will never understand how some people can blindly defend creators, claiming that they "KNOW" Mel and that she would "NEVER do that!!" Because the only things that you truly know about her are things that either she told you, or got leaked. Needless to say, I no longer consider myself a fan, and I was never one of those die hard fans (thank fuck, I really could not care less what you think about artists that I like - we all have our own opinions).
Tbf I think a lot of those people are young. When these allegations first came I was 12 and I thought like that. Now I'm 19 and realise I don't know her, and I can't know for certain what happened. I hope this is the case for most of those people too or else this is really really really concerning
Agreed she's a celebrity and not everyone knows her "good" people are different with others yk? So that's not a good defense for Melanie regardless I'm neutral in this situation
Everyone keeps saying "oh she didn't do it" "oh she's innocent" like do yall know her personally or smth? I think not
Exactly like fans act like they know Melanie personally, when in reality they don’t
@Tickle_Tickl3 fr fr like it's honestly disappointing
Fr bias parasocial much
a lot of Melanie fans have a gross parasocial relationship with Melanie. they need to get offline
no fr like were you there?
“M’lany” (tips hat)
this tickled me
i choked laughing, thank you
i smiled a little
"Fe'lany" (tips hat)
@@StarboyJuno Help- I choked on my water-
This is just like Tana where someone can be a bad person and bad things happen to them by a loved creator where fans just want their beloved creator to be the pure human being that can do no wrong
“SA is bad but it’s Melanie” IM SORRY??????? 😨
LIKE SHE WROTE A WHOLE ASS SONG ABOUT THIS
I kept seeing that bullshit to its so insane and scary
@@blue_jay590what song was it😢?
@@4lbalmatieseecharan507 maybe piggyback
Thank you for speaking about this! I was scared people were gonna stop tallking about it and ppl just gonna forget it. no matter how bad i want Melanie to be innocent we have to hold her accountable, idc if she already made a statement, that's old and barely sound considerate. She needs to address it again because there already has been so much negative talk around her ever since people were noticing how expensive but very cheaply made her merch was for the trilogy tour. Her whole fandom is in shambles right now. It is fucked up how many young children are defending her right now when they don't even have the fully developed brain to decide on what's right from wrong, and how to do proper research and not believe very fake sources. It's more sickening when there are full grown adults defending the allegations to the moon and back! So yes! Id rather say shes guilty until proven innocent bc if tim was lying then we can go apologize to melanie and she wouldnt even lose anything, but if tim was right and we supported her, we wouldnt look like such guilty monsters, and this is coming from a crybaby
Facts (I'm a crybaby too)
Real.
innocent until proven guilty 😭
@@Devilish.Kitten “lair” lmao
@@Devilish.Kitten in all seriousness, i understand. but its very annoying when people just automatically decide to choose a side when:
a. melanie hasnt spoken out, mainly bc shes on tour.
b. timothy doesnt have any CONCRETE proof that melanie did anything.
c. suspiciously, timothy only seems to make a comeback when melanie is at her peak.
atleast learn to stay neutral for now.
this WHOLE situation is literally the definition of "believe the victim" until its your favorite artist.
I’ve been a Melanie Martinez fan for quite a while. I haven’t even listened to her music since the allegations came out. I’d rather support an alleged liar then an alleged you know what.
i got called slurs for not liking mel, the fandom is disgusting
Hi I'm so sorry this happened to you! I used to be apart of the fandom and they are really toxic for no reason it's still shocking the Melanie said all of this and she really needs to speak out
@@Dollness_xoxo thank you for your concern! they did worse but i would have to use a tw for that so yeah i agree they are toxic asf
It's like the people following Trump a if he's Christ himself (he ain't.)
As*
As a Mel fan (might have to call myself Ex fan if this is true 💀)
I am so sorry that you had that experience I didn't even know that the fandom was so toxic until now just know your not whatever slurs they told you & you deserve more respect than tha
i saw some ppl saying "oh, melanie wouldn't do that!" YOU DONT KNOW?? you just know her from the internet, not real life, you just know what SHE wants you to know
REALLLL!!!
Idk but someone who has made a bunch of songs abt abuse and rape while saying her music is heavily inspired by abuse she has suffered herself would do something like this, u can't cancel someone over just a claim.
@@VALENSlOsomeone with trauma isn't always going to be innocent 100% of the time. You can be a bad person even if you have trauma.
To be fair you don't know too, just sayin
@@VALENSlOnot Everyone who has Trauma is Innocent.
Here’s my hot take: Just because Timothee said/did some racist things on Twitter/X *doesn’t mean she’s not a victim of SA.* It just means she was a SA victim who just-so-happened to not be a great person. Not all victims are perfect little angels.
SAY IT WITH ME FOLKS!
SILENCE!
IS!
NOT!
CONSENT!
REALL
I agree 100% but Melanie herself had said that they both mutually consented and during their intimacy, the consent was never rescinded. This whole allegation situation is confusing tbh
@@Benmeover she said that "she didn't say no" which doesn't mean she consented
@@itz_fae her “she didn’t say no” refers back to Timothy’s original statement “I said no to her multiple times and she ignored me”
@@Benmeoverexactly, one if them lying but there is literally no way to know so we shouldn't be trying to "cancel" either of them.
Consent isn't the absent of a no it's a continued and enthusiastic yes/ref
What disgusts me the most is that so many people expect victims to be perfect - to remember dates and time stamps, ideally have everything saved and recorded or taken pictures of and also have the best memory possible while barely expecting the same from the alleged rapist; as if SA isn't traumatic enough. Also:
1. Even if Timothy did something bad in the past, I honestly don't care- in a sense that any of her negative behaviors are a seperate issue to the fact that Melanie allegedly raped her. No one, I repeat, NO ONE should go through sexual assault. Rape is always bad, no matter who it happens to- crazy that it has to be said.
2. I'm really disgusted by the fans' behavior too. Whether all of it did happen or not, it was sickening to see so many people blindly defending their idol without a second thought, some admitting that they don't even care. Trully awful.
Also just a side note, but it took me maybe three minutes of googling to learn that your pictures can, in fact, double themselves on your camera roll, either because of the system itself or because of third-party apps, mostly happening on Apple products by what I've read. So...
for real, in fact many criminology statements explain how most victims get facts wrong, as when you are in survival mode, our brains cannot think of all the details... victim blaming sucks real hard, so thanks for bringing this point up, cause it is not spoken about enough.
@@sleepy_teacup Yeah, glad I'm not alone in knowing how crazy it is to blame the victim's memory... also I feel like many people forget that it's not only the "survival mode" you mentioned- which is incredibly important to take into consideration too- but it's been literally proven that trauma affects memory as well :/
And even when a victim has all the proof they are still disbelieved
@CormacMcMillan Trauma affects different people differently. Some can never forget it. For mine, I can't tell you the details, time stamps or dates. I can only tell how much I wanted to disappear/end it and that I still feel the pain and harm of it. Hence why a few details may change overtime, because you remembered something after recovering. Also I know how easy it is to be manipulated and this way, convinced to say something else or stay silent for some parts- by words, by actions, by the fact that many support your abuser, but they despise you. So you change some things or avoid them to be left alone in peace, because trying seems wasteful and unattainable.
I may be interpreting your words wrong, but I think it's good to have something in mind for everyone: I'd much rather believe an alleged liar than an alleged rapist. And who you choose also shows what kind of person you are.
I agree with your statement I am a Melanie fan and even so I still will not take sides I will wait for the appropriate amount of evidence to prove her guilty even if it isn't much it will still be evidence I do hope Melanie did not assault the girl and I hope she speaks up to say something and I hope the girl is ok and I hope she gets help through it if it is true
The default shouldn’t be “yes”, Melanie. It’s so painfully obvious that you should assume Timothy doesn’t give consent until she does.
Btw just to let people know, the drawings melanie did of the chest out was a photo of melanie herself and not of a child. At the time of drawing that photo the "crybaby" album wasnt going to have a character that the album would follow. Instead the songs were gonna follow melanie herself with songs from that original concept being leaked such as "rotten milk" "where do babies come from" so thats not a child, its melanie herself. The character was only added to appease her record label later on. And the 2 headed baby is an actual doll btw and she was just drawing a replica.
that and if you notice, crybaby as a character is portrayed with brown hair, the album cover has split dye. I believe the 2 headed babies are also a symbol and are portayed as being that way, I forget what they are called sadly :(
@Wyattthewakko precisely! I don't know what the babies are called but I do know that it's based on an actual doll sold for children
As someone who considered themselves a diehard Melanie fan, I’m glad you covered this cause the fans defending a possible rapist on twitter THIS HARD when the victim isn’t even trying to file charges, just trying to defend herself online from weirdos, idk, I don’t wanna defend either but in always going to side with the possible victim before I side with a possible rapist.
I feel the same. I would love to support Melanie in this because I love her music but if she SA’d someone and then lied about it, that’s something that I can’t support.
@@blue_jay590 100%
If someone doesn’t say a three letter word ‘Yes’ it is NOT consensual. Every one of us should know this by now and it pains me that not all of us know this.
this was more critical of melanie and thats okay but i would also recommend watching one more critical of timothy so you can see both sides
@@zimmyzioom what does that have to do with this comment
@@debbie0110 so people so take sides without hearing both sides what did u think omfg read the comment
@@zimmyzioom that truly has nothing to with this comment... listening to both sides isn't going to change anything about what they said. it isn't going to change the fact that consent is not consent without a yes. your reply would've been fine as a standalone comment but it's really odd as a reply to this particular comment.
@@debbie0110 it would though because he mostly didnt get both sides as it WAS more critical on melanie
It's so delusional to think, just because you like a certain artist that you actually KNOW them. You don't. You have no idea who these people really are offstage. At the end of the day, they're just strangers who can be capable of anything like everyone else.
Melanie responding that she never said no is evidence that Timothy isn’t lying, this is crazy
She got cut off Timothy didn’t say no to what she and her did together
how is that proof of anything oml. timothy is PROVEN to be a pedophile, racist and hitler supporter. even timothy's ex-friend talks about her being a liar and how she went from believing her to realizing she just wanted to ruin melanie's career. and melanie's full statement was "she never said no to what we CHOSE to do TOGETHER", which was a response to timothy saying "i repeatedly said no".
@@CrybabyEarthlings29 didn't say no does NOT mean yes, when somebody asks me a yes or no question, me not saying no does not mean I m saying yes
"she didn't say no to what we chose to do together"
melanie claims that this was consensual. it was a direct response to Timothy saying "I said no multiple times", meaning consent was not revoked. She's not saying a lack of no = yes, it's just poorly worded.
(neutral, just explaining her statement because the first reply also got the statement wrong)
@@2v45n88z jit, reread my comment with more braincells and come back to me when you finally understand