The Best Cordless Die Grinder
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Is it really worth paying more? Dyno'ing the small cordless die grinders.
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1/4 Collet for the Bosch PN 1 619 P10 662 from GWG12V-20S parts book www.boschtoolservice.com/ph/en/boschprof/spareparts/none-gwg12v-20s-3601CA701
THIS IS ONLY SMALL DIE GRINDERS, Large inline die grinders IE Dewalt Flex Metabo etc will be in a separate video.
wouldn't mind hearing/seeing them run, even for a second, maybe let them vibrate around on the table? I really need a quiet one for long hours of use.
I am using both Milwaukee M12 and Bosch new right angle grinder. Bosch is much better. I like its more power, slim grip and spindle lock. Your test mixed the small grinders and big size ones.
But for this video guy only power matter.
how's the vibration and noise level on that Bosch? which trigger do you prefer?
@@sevenohm3375 I prefer Bosch and its vibration is less. The noise are similar.
I had to return the M12 right angle. It stalls out even if left to cool for several minutes. I need to get the Ryobi now though.
Yep thats understandable, I found the M12 is about 1/2 the power vs air from use. I should do a video of cordless vs air, the Ryobi feels comparable to air IMO.
Please replace the AA battery in your clock
Idk kinda like it this way, I can have a beer any time bc its always 5 o'clock lol.
1 week ago I was looking for this exact comparison. And noone did it so far. Why is this channel sooo damn good 😨 I wonder if the Bosch suffers from the same cutoff problem as the Milwaukees. Max Watts may be about the same, but the Milwaukee is incredibly sensitive when being pushed.
So that’s a good point on the Bosch, it actually suffers from the exact opposite of the m12. It keeps the torque but loose’s rpm, so it’s less likely to stall but on the flip side you loose that rpm for actually get work done if that makes sense. It’s interesting that the majority of Bosch tools I have tested perform in this manner.
Torque test channel did it as well
@@Tools-Tested True, but no work gets done at zero RPM which is where the M12's tend to want to be after a couple minutes. There is a thermal saturation issue on either the motor or the electronics board, coupled with ultra conservative logic to keep warranty claims low. They are a misery to use as a result. I look forward to picking up the Ryobi. Great test process - much appreciate the comprehensive and scientific approach. Many thanks for this super helpful video and happy new year !👍
@@chrishoward4017 no Bosch though. They rather often skip Bosch or test it afterwards
@GannDolp Thanks! Happy New Year!
I got that ryobi because I bought a tool kit that came with another free tool, and of the tools I could choose from the die grinder was the most expensive at regular price so that's what I chose as my free tool. I didn't need one, had an air version, but if you say I can pick a free tool im gonna take the most expensive option no matter what. That was two years ago, the tools that came in that kit are all broken and the ryobi die grinder is still perfect. Perfect. Totally flawless. I use it all the time. Only once in two years has the size been an issue and I just used the air version for that.
The only annoying thing about it, and it's a minor thing, is the first gear speed setting doesn't have enough torque. It'll catch and grab on stuff. But, if you go up to 2nd gear and just give the handle a half squeeze so it's running at 1st gear rpm just while in 2nd gear, You have torque now and it's fine. More of a quirk that anything really
Snap-on is a waste of money
All battery die grinders are. Lol.
Your tools are are supposed to make you money, not make you go in debt and broke. 😂
If you work in the field, and use your tools to make money. They are not a waste of money. Plus they hold their value way better than any tool on the market.
Why would Milwaukee want to take that 18 V Ryobi and paint it red. Milwaukee all already offers an 18 V die grinder and so does snap on. Why you chose to throw that 18 V in the mix of the 12 V I don’t understand. Is it a pricing thing? Because it just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.
Thanks for the great review as always! I’m hoping for a good deal during HD’s Ryobi Days!🤞🏼
No problem! Yeah they should have it on sale.
I have 3 of the right angle ryobi's in my workshop. We use them for hours each day with 2 inch 'roloc' style, quick change, sanding and surface conditioning pads. The oldest one we have us around 3 years old and is still going strong with daily use. They have been a cheap and reliable alternative to running air tools. I do not want the noise of running rotary air tools all day, I am in light industrial zoning and do not want to annoy my neighbours. With a good quality ceramic sanding disc they knock down small welds on highly finished stainless steel parts with ease. I have tried the 12v milwaukee and they just dont compare. The batteries drain way too fast. And there is not nearly enough torque compared to the 18V. The ryobi are much heavier but still lighter than a 100mm angle grinder and much more precise and easier on the wrists if used for long periods. For the price I would be happy to replace the tools every year if needed as they would have more than paid for themselves but it seems they are quite durable. For my usage the abrasive costs is lower too. As the price of flap discs is so high, and much of the disc gets wasted using them for my purposes. the 2 inch quick changes can be gotten cheap once a good supplier is found.
Thanks for the info! yeah I love mine. Would be nice if Milwaukee made a 18v version, that 12v is gutless. It has to be one of Ryobi's best tools IMO, nice to hear its lasting under heavy use.
Which battery do you typically run on it? Im thinking this tool will benefit hugely from the new 4ah tabless.
@@Tools-Tested I run the 5ah batteries, and keep at least 2 batteries per tool. Generally we don't drain one before the other has charged with fairly constant but intermittent use. The 5ah definately increase the weight a bit. But for us it's worth the extra torque and run time. I really rate them highly. We have no other Ryobi tools in our shop. Mostly use Metabo. Even if Milwaukee brought one out now I probably wouldn't swap.
We use the M12 units with 2" sanding pads to remove mill scale prior to welding instead of reaching for the heavier M18 4.5-5" cutoff / angle grinder on smaller stock. Die grinding on steel and aluminum has us for reaching for the Metabo (German) model 600627420 as it by far has the most useful RPM range for controlled grinding and polishing without losing control. The higher RPM units have a tendency to get unwieldy with burr bits and are useless for polishing as the RPM exceeds felt ratings.
Keep up the great content and happy new year!
Yep thats a very good point about RPM, things can get out of hand fast @ high rpms with a burr bit.
Will do! Happy New Year!
Metabo has a brushless option too, they claim it to be equivalent to 1100W corded, which should mean about 750Wout.
That may be interesting.
Yep hopefully I can test in a few months.
Great testing as usual! But I have to disagree with your conclusions regarding the Bosch.Your data shows that it was the only model to deliver it claimed RPM, has the lightest weight (even with the chunker 6Ah battery), is most quiet, and has the lowest vibration. That doesn't sound like a disappointment to me. By the way, are you sure this model is made in China? Nearly all Bosch 12V "specialty" tools (not drivers) are made in Hungary or Germany.
Also, using an imported price for the Bosch is not apples-to-apples as there is no such thing as a $270 USD Bosch 12V tool in the US market. In the US, Bosch 12V tools tend to max out at about $150, but are often available for much less.
I also have to disagree with your interpretation of the Watts @ 15K RPM and Max Watts charts. At 15K RPM, there is no meaningful difference between models with the exception of the Ryobi. The same is arguably true for Max Watts (39W difference between the lowest and highest).
Excluding the much larger/heavier Ryobi, I interpret your data as showing negligible performance differences between the 12V models. With that in mind, other factors such as weight, noise, vibration, and cost are arguably the most important differentiating factors.
Please don't interpret my comments as criticisms of your work. You have an excellent channel! But I think your analysis would be improved by contextualizing differences in performance data to the real world.
Thanks!, I agree with the vibration and it actually meeting the claimed rpm.
The serial number sticker says "Made In China" sadly.
Pricing is based off of MSRP on Amazon Germany shipping to Spelle Germany 48480. I will admit it is onsale now but still has an MSRP listed of 250 euro.
I just think they could and should have done better coming into the market so late, granted yes its 12v. The cutoff tool is in the same boat but at least its made in Germany.
Yeah, there's basically zero performance difference between the 12V tools. Milwaukee also has the slight advantage of having higher powered cells than the Bosch.
The Snap-on is 14.4V (or 16V max). So it has voltage advantage. However, it has fewer cells (4) compared to the M12 and Bosch which have 6. Good example of how higher voltages give more power, especially at these low voltages.
At over 600 bucks you'd think Snap On could balance the rotor properly.
Yeah I put that vibration monitor on there and was like ew lol.
I realize that I'm coming to this video a couple months late and asking this, but why did you include the Ryobi 18v die grinder with the lower voltage die grinders? Of course it should outperform them by a large margins. It was even more confusing when you showed the Milwaukee M18 (18v) die grinder and said your testing setup couldn't handle it, which implies that the Milwaukee 18v die grinder is much more powerful than the Ryobi 18v die grinder that you just chose as the highest performer.
Thanks for making the video, but I'm not sure what the criteria was that you were using to choose which die grinders were included in this comparison. Were you including any right angle die grinders, regardless of voltage/size? If you took the Ryobi 18v die grinder out of the competition and were choosing among only the lower voltage, smaller die grinders, which would be your choice? That's what I'm looking for now. I don't have the room for that big Ryobi base and battery for some projects.
I got the Ryobi the very next day after your first eye opening Die Grinder Video, around a year ago. And thank for that, very much.
I have thrown everything at it. Have put tooling on it, one wouldn't think possible, and it just keeps on giving.
Other trades try to give me a hard time about my little Ryobi drill. Then go into a confused state when they realize it's not a drill.
Entertaining indeed.
Once again, your attention to detail is appreciated.
Thank you.
Glad to hear it has worked well for you aswell.
Yeah for some reason people hate on ryobi, which I find funny because the guy who owns TTI owns Milwaukee.
I agree! I use my Ryobi very often in my auto shop. People always look at me like I’m crazy until they see it work.
@@Tools-Tested i think the stima evolved from the ryobi of yesteryear when the tools were legitimately crap
Interesting example of voltage benefits with Snap-on (14.4V or 16V MAX) vs M12 (10.8V or 12V MAX). Snap on is 274W vs 256W for M12. But Snap-on only has 4-cells vs 6-cells for M12. The M12 5ah is also using Samsung 25S, but Snap-on is Samsung 25R (unless they upgraded).
So Snap-on is getting ~7% more output power despite using a battery that's
Yep, this was my first time using the 14.4 (16v). I think it's a smart idea, with 2 cells in the tool vs 3 and higher voltage allowing for a lower amp draw.
It will be interesting to see how the other tools compare vs Milwaukee.
@Tools-Tested I wonder if the format could fit 21700 cells without making the case too thin. That would give them comparable power to the M12 5ah (4x35A = 140A vs M12's 6x25A = 150A)
Hmm that’s an interesting thought, would be awesome if they could.
When is dewalt going to release a right angle die grinder?
Idk but if they use the motor in the cut off tool it would be amazing! I should build one for the fun of it.
I don't have any of them but I have a lot of the M18 & M12 tools. Waiting for the next generation of Milwaukee seems to be the best option. I do have a Ryobi tool so that's a temporary option too. the large heavy and pricey battery ruin it for comparison unless the M18 is considered.
Yeah hopefully we see gen2 m12 or M18 soon!
You won't get much more power out of M12, it's just too low voltage. Your best hope is that they make a compact M18 die grinder.
@@toolscientist I agree. There are a few M12s that I don't want anymore. The only reason I still have them is in case there's ever a need for that exact sized tool...
@@toolscientistThe problem with the M12 grinders (and cut off saw too) is not so much the max power , it's that they can't maintain their power more than a minute or less due to rapid thermal saturation somewhere in the design, coupled with overly conservative protection logic. Many folks have incorrectly concluded it's a battery thing but it's not.
A gen 2 M12 needs to address the thermal bottleneck whatever it is, with beefed up motor /electronics /cooling/thermal inertia etc.
I have the Milwaukee m12 and 2 m18 die grinders.
Put them through their paces, almost burnt the motor out in the older m18 slotting out larger holes doing steel fab and erection, great tool, looking forward to how they actually stack up against other brands, the braked 1 is a nice upgrade.
Yeah it should be interesting, seems like all the brands now sell larger inline die grinders.
The M12's will never burn out , they cut out so conservatively. I'd much rather have the responsibility of not letting them burn up in my own hands, but alas ..
Looks like the Bosch is now officially sold in the US (with a 1/4" collet) at $229 with a couple 3Ah batteries. Which would undercut both Milwaukees kitted with a single battery
Nice to see it comes with the 1/4 collet and with a kit price of $230. Not bad price wise in the kit form like u pointed out.
I have tried the Wilmaukee but I was not a fan of the hold button or the "on button".
I went with Ryobi since I got the two pack 4ah battery pack with a free tool, which one of the options was the brushless die grinder.
Nice! I really like mine.
1:40 that's an interesting example of sample variance. I'm 99.9% sure both M12s have identical motors and you're seeing 5-7W difference or about 2-3%.
Yep I would agree, seems both have the same motor.
Is snap on power tools really worth the money? Hell no
Can you lock the button on the Borsch?
The Milwaukee M12s are in dire need of an update. They’re basically useless. Better still, come out with an M18 version. Personally I use my Ryobi but I’d love to see Ridgid put that tiny cutoff tool motor in a right angle die grinder.
Yep the m12 was cool when it came out, but they seriously need to do something. Between this in the 3" cutoff tool, M18 versions are what they need. That Ridgid motor in a die grinder would be sweet.
Your testing is getting more angles to it with every video. I just don't want a cordless die grinder, it is just one of those tools that has to be air driven for me. 🤔
Yep just trying to cover all the bases lol. Yeah IMO its Ryobi or air, I should do a video comparing air to cordless. The others feel like they are half the performance compare to air.
I have the Ryobi brushless. Buddy of mine gave it to me since he doesn't have a need for it and it came with his kit. I've been happy with it in my limited use and, of course, the price 😊
Yeah its powerful tool, you cant beat that price!
No other 18-24v die grinders? I almost bought the bulky Hercules, but it is single speed. HF may have improved with the Hercules line ,but a lot of them are dumbed down to save money.
No not yet, working on a dyno to handle them. This one can’t handle those.
I have a dollar to donate to the Mirka right angle die grinder fund. Close to a grand for made in China.
Lol yeah that one didn't make the cut, crazy how expensive it is for made in china. I would also love to test the Matco.
i got the milwaukee right angle on sale for $100 bundled with a 4ah battery and charger 2 weeks ago. hard to shop around when you see a price like that.
Yep cant beat that, awesome deal for the $.
What vibration meter/tester did you use? Thanks
UNI-T UT312A
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So what happened to the FLEX die grinder?
This is only small die grinders, large inline grinders will be in a video later this year.
@@Tools-Tested Okay, I can't wait, happy new year.
@@rickyperkins232 Happy New Year!
Dewalt has 20V die grinders too.
Yep hope to test it with the other larger inline's soon.
Hell yeah!!! Thank you, nice testing!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
I think you could get a aftermarket one that size for Bosch not 100% sure
Yeah probably, they did just release it for the US market with a 1/4. I need to see if I can find the PN, also the kit price is about how much it cost me to import just the tool.
@@Tools-Tested Amazon already have the kits for pre-order $169 tool
@@bluemantom77 wow even better
@Tools-Tested
1/8 2608570139
3mm 136
1/4 140
6mm 137
8mm 138
😅
Would like to see the 24v kobalt die grinder tested also
Hopefully in a few months once the higher watt dyno is done.
Yeah, I would love to see that too. I have an M12 right angle and the Kobalt. But I’m usually doing small 2” abrasive wheels to remove paint and rust and stuff. The M12 seems to work just fine for that, and it’s smaller of course. So I’ve barely used the Kobalt.
I ordered my first week of last month from Amazon UK 🇬🇧 come with 6mm collet. So have to look up 1/4 collet found the Bosch P.N for the 1/4 & 1/8 was chipper to order from Amazon UK 🇬🇧
Hello do you have the PN or Amazon link?
I will add it into the description, I’m sure others will be looking for it.
Thanks!
Happy new 2024
Happy New Year!
Snapon should be ashamed
Yep should be around half that, they want US made prices for a tool that’s made in china.
@Tools-Tested well said, at this point, I've just got to assume they think we're all idiots.
I’m wondering how many they sell, and if they are actually making much money on them. Their sales volume has got to be really low at those prices.
Yep I imagine that’s the issue, low volume and high design/manufacture costs. I would love to see their margins.
@@Tools-Tested I wonder what everyone else’s margins are, too. Ryobi makes so many different models of everything.
The other things I have no idea about is, how hard is it to design some of these tools? How hard to make them reliable? And how hard to make them inexpensive to manufacture?
Milwaukee made that defective update to their high torque. I’d love to know what went wrong. Did it get assembled wrong? Did the prototype differ from production in some way? Did they make a last minute change? Did a sub assembly company make a change without discussing? Etc.
I watched a great teardown of the Juicero juicer. They designed it with huge pieces of plastic with varying thicknesses. Impossible to make those parts cheaply. And with CNC machined metal parts that couldn’t be made any other way. So if they wanted to make them in larger quantities for less money, it was simply not possible without a significant redesign. Making the initial units expensively to see how the market reacts can make sense but you should be thinking about how to do it less expensively eventually.
Makita, no?
Plan is to dyno that one with the larger cordless inline grinders, it kinda falls between the two.
By far in my opinion, it Milwaukee
The Mikita die grinders are the best.
I hope to test them soon with the other large inline's.
The makita 18V die grinder is brushed. It is likely to come last against every other brand's brushless 18V die grinder.
@@toolscientist
TTC measured it at 330W or so if I remember right. Not great for an 18V tool of that size and weight. I guess you could find worse.
Awesome video! I recently got a 26 gallon compressor 175 PSI and 4.5 SCFM. It still struggled to run my die grinder during my last fab project. I would have been interested seeing Run time compared on these models with a similiar 2.0/2.5 AH battery. Mostly to decide if an electrical Die Grinder is a valid move since my compressor could not keep up with 5-8 minutes of grinding at a time. Not sure if that would be a good metric for other consumers though. Keep it coming!
Thanks!
Heavy fab use you will definitely need air with a large air compressor, seeing your pulling down a 26 with 4.5 cfm sounds like you are doing a good amount of work.
Sadly the only solution would be to add another compressor to the system or get a larger one.
If you look up the model of the die grinder it should tell you the max cfm it uses.
Hopefully at some point I can dyno air.
No dewalt 20v?
That's in a separate class, this test is only for the small die grinders.
The dyno cant handle the watts of large inline die grinders. Im currently working on finishing up the dyno for angle grinders which will also work for large inline die grinders.
@@Tools-Tested I was going to ask about Kobalt.. I take it... it's in that other class too.. Looking forward to that test.. Thanks for the honest reviews. Keep up the great work!🖖
Yes sir, will be with the larger ones. Will do, thanks!
Dang. No DeWalt in-line?
Nope, will be dyno’ed with the other large inline’s.
I wonder how the Dewalt Die Grinder would stack up. It’s rated at 760 watts. So maybe it would edge the Ryobi? But it’s also a huge grinder.
Dewalts cutoff tool is really good, the die grinder might be interesting indeed.
Dewalt's inline is much better than the Ryobi, i have both as well as the 2 m12 Milwaukee's. I use them for different applications. The Dewalt and straight m12 for carbide burrs for steel, the right angle m12 for carbide burr for wood and the ryobi for 2" sanding wheels.
Off of spec I would say the Dewalt would smoke this Ryobi, from my testing of other dewalt tools they are actually honest with the specs. That being said most are rated with a 2 or 4ah, so when u use the PS batterys I could see that 760 watts pushed over 1000.
If everything goes as planned we will see in about two months, once the larger high speed dyno is done.
I have a DeWalt in-line as well as the DeWalt cut off tool, both are monsters
@@KosmicHRTRacingTeam I have the die grinder, but no other grinders to compare it too. The few times I’ve used it, it more than got the job done.
I currently own the ryobi and like you said I have not run in to any issues with it yet, I do abuse it and run it pretty hard and it has not let me down or bog down. On the other hand, I have used the Milwaukee one and it was good but once I started to push down on it is when the tool would cut out and I needed a battery pretty quick. That is why I went with the ryobi because of these two issues.
Yep very good point on the battery life with m12.
For anyone wanting to no collet size part numbers. Bosch only listed 6mm and 8mm in uk for some reason which i think put alot of people off bit silly of bosch really knowing they have the parts from the 18v die grinders.
1/8 2608570139
3mm 136
1/4 140
6mm 137
8mm 138
😅
Thanks! yeah kinda crazy sell it in the UK with a 6mm collet, then don't easily provide the 1/4 PN.
I ordered 1 619 P10 662 from the parts book for the US version.
no Makita?
In a few months, I have to build a larger dyno for it.