Heard the same from an internationally competitive powerlifter. He saw me deadlifting in a gym and asked if I'm planning to compete. I said I didn't have such plans at the time (was too weak back then). He told me that squat gives a better load pattern for general muscle development than deadlift, so if I'm not a competitive powerlifter, I should squat more instead of deadlifting at all. I took his advice to heart and started training to compete instead of ditching deadlift.
This speaks to me so loudly. I had low back pain with sciatica for more than 10 years. Tried several different chiropractors that only worked temporarily through the years. I was running out of options other than surgery. But then I started deadlifting, starting light of course and making sure I was doing them correctly. After just a few months my back pain started going away and eventually became virtually non-existent compared to how it used to be. At first, it was really tough just using the bar (45lbs) and I sure wasn't convinced this would work for me. But I kept going. Month after month slowly moving weight up. Stay consistent with it and don't give up. Today I can now deadlift 355lbs and my back is feeling so good from where it was before. So thanks to you Mitchell and many other videos of doctors and physical therapists, my low back is so much better. My strength is way up. Now I have a shoulder impingement I am working on.. but that's a different story. I am 50 years old, about to turn 51 next month and I am stronger than ever before these days. Mitchell I love your videos and I love watching you perform in your training and in the shows. Keep it up man, you have lots of fans who love you dude.
I have the complete opposite experience and a lot of others do. Deadlifting is what fked us up. Going hard and bad form and a lot of weight of course. If I had to go back in the past I would tell myself to stop at 275 and do no more ever
I also suffered with back pain after getting hit by a truck. Deadlifting with purpose and care contributes greatly to my back health and overall strength journey. Knowledge is always a good thing no matter what you are doing.
@@Freshprankstv1 I injured my back with deadlifts and deadlifts also helped me so much with getting back to lifting. There is no reason to stop deadlifting imo. People just need to educate themselves more and do the deadlifts properly. Of course it's not an easy lift if you need to use your whole body, it's by far the most complex.
What you should try is seated deadlifts half the time, so picking a dumbbell off of the floor in a seated position, this trains the lowerback in a different way and is really good for the bullet proofing of the lower back. Hope this helps if you try this 🙂
@@Freshprankstv1Right, so that means deadlifting didn’t F you up. You did because it sounds like you did an exercise without instruction. That’s not a dig at you - like you said, people so that a lot. The overall problem is people don’t realize weight training exercises involve skill and technique, which must be learned. It’s no different than any other recreational activity: at the beginning you can get away with just moving and having fun. But as you progress and you decide to take it a bit more seriously, then you have to eat some humble pie and learn the basics.
I was paralyzed for several years because my L5-S1collapsed Heavy weight lifting, especially deadlifting 1. increased my bone density, 2. helped decrease muscle imbalances in my posterior chain causing hyperlordosis 3. Decreased risks of injury Just pulled 501.2lbs at the USAPL booth in Olympia this year -edit- I didn't start lifting until after the paralysis, and surgery. It didn't cause it. To explain what happend and how lifting helped A combination of hyperlordosis, low density, and juvenile rheumetoid arthritis caused my disc to bulge and pop. Eventually the gel in the disc emptied and the vertabrae settled on my sciatic nerve, paralyzing my left quad and part of the hamstring for 3 years. The surgeries required were a laminectomy and discectomy and arthritis had been building in the surrounding tissue. 1. Hyperlordosis a spine curvature caused by a combination of A. Tight shortened hip flexors which connect at the lower spine B. Weak stretched hamstring connected to the other side of the spine Deadlifting and full range front squats strengthed my hamstrings and glutes pulling my spine back, and stretched my flexors allowing them to release 2. Low bone density occurs when a lack of force production happens such as running and jumping, or gravity in the case of astronauts (20% bone density reduction from 6 months of no gravity). The skeletal muscle force against bones reinforces this. A progressive overload in weightlifting greatly speeds this up and can help make you bones not just average, but "super" human. 3. Arthritis I can't fully explain it but maybe through the lifestyle changes such as diet,stress management and healthy sleep it no longer bothers me and seems to have gone away. Would be cool if someone with more knowledge had input on that. Just building muscle in that area alone helped alleviate the pressure put on the spinal column itself
Mitch is right on. The fact that deadlifts “cause” injury is exactly why it’s important to learn, progressively, to pick up heavy things safely in a way that stresses the weak link (or never pick anything up again to protect it). I’m a carpenter and had increasing chronic low back pain, then broke my back in a motorcycle accident. I’m now 43, 11yrs out for the accident. I just deadlifted 635 and have a strong resilient, mobile back.
If you think that lifting 635 lbs is somehow good for your back you're delusional and will have a rude awakening unfortunately. Also it did not fix your back. Try not going to the gym for 2 weeks, the pain will come and will be worse than before because of the deadlifts
@@facebookrealthe OP had low back pain because he didn’t do deadlifts, and when he did deadlifts, the pain went away. So the deadlifts did in fact help fix his back. Furthermore, deadlifting 635 is NOT bad for your back if you use proper technique. If you personally don’t like deadlifts, that’s fine, but don’t spread misinformation just because you personally don’t like deadlifts
3 things here. I didn’t say deadlifting a lot of weight is good for my back. I said the processing of building resilience and capability has been good. Most of work is moderate weight and high reps with short rest intervals. I have gone multiple months, multiple times without deadlifting or any other heavy compound lifts over the last ten years and I did feel less mobile and strong, but pain did not come back. I didn’t say deadlifting ( especially super heavy) is the one thing for everyone. I’m saying that building resilience helped me. If controlling your environment and never letting yourself do a thing that might aggravate a weak painful back is your thing, that’s fine. ( that is what most of my friends have done and I still love them) My life involves carrying plywood on angled roofs, lifting heavy beams, playing with my kids, helping friends move heavy objects, etc, and I’m glad I’m able to do those things with joy and comfort.
@@sethpendergrass9255 those are good points. It sounds like deadlifts helped you, in that the deadlifts gave you the resilience needed to do your work. I didn’t mean to imply that deadlifts were the ONLY thing that helped you, but they helped you somewhat. Also, just to be clear, I wasn’t saying that heavy deadlifts are always the answer. If lower weight and higher reps works for you, then do that. I was simply pointing out that heavy deadlifts aren’t inherently dangerous (which is what the first commenter seemed to be saying). Still, I’m happy to hear that your back is doing a lot better 😊
Oberst is not smart and doesnt know how to train. So he just has never done em right. Even though he is still really strong. His deadlift form is pretty bad for a competitive strongman
Many professional a lifter has hurt themselves deadlifting young and old. It is inherently more in jury prone than other lifts that still cause injury.
hang cleans also arent a full hinge. You're not supposed to drive your hips forwards in a clean, you drive your legs and hips upwards. Treating the hang clean like a hinge ends up throwing the bar forwards through an arc, instead of straight up like its supposed to be executed
@ yes but the point of what I said was that he did not disregard the hinge pattern. The interview discussed his injury with deadlifts and how he saw more pro athletes using the hang clean. The full interview does not say what Mitch claimed.
@kettlebells-ez9xi i didn't hear any reference to max efforts in the whole interview, so i call bullshit on that. Besides, the whole premise of max effort day in Westside requires a 1-3 rep max effort once per week of lower body exercises (which includes deads)
We're missing some context here. Oberst seemed to be talking about doing heavy deadlifts for football specifically. He said football players are programmed power cleans, and hang power cleans as they are much more beneficial for the sport. I agree with this for the most part. People shouldn't be taking the clip out of context for a free and easy dunk on him for no reason.
I disagree, I watched the interview and am a big oberst fan. That said, he did not seem to be speaking to football players he basically said if your sport doesn’t require deadlifts don’t do deadlifts
You are absolutely wrong. He's making a general statement about not deadlifting unless you are trying to be a better deadlifter then uses football players programming to justify it.
No, he is saying don't deadlift unless what you are doing specifically requires it, and uses football as an example. If deadlifts were the be-all-and-end-all exercise, you would see every athlete doing them. But you don't.
I have a severe degenerative spinal condition and started having back pain in my late teens. I've lifted weights on and off for over 38 years. I've always blamed my back issues on heavy lifting but never did heavy deadlifts for fear of making my back issues worse. The most I ever deadlifted during a workout before 2024 was 225 lbs. and that was only on a few rare occasions when I was young, though I occasionally lifted objects that were much heavier when I needed to. I did stiff-leg deadlifts as a stretching and warmup movement rarely going over 135 lbs. For the past year I've been doing stiff-leg barbell deadlifts every week working up to about 80% of my one-rep max over about 8 sets. I typically lift in the 265-285 range regularly and sometimes go as high as 315 for a few reps. My back has never felt this good, no pain anymore, better mobility and stronger than ever at 54 years old. I realize now I wasn't training my back hard enough all of those years, it was a lagging body part from neglect. I'm sure the opposite can happen from lifting too heavy, not keeping strict form and not recovering fully between workouts but neglecting your back isn't good either. X-rays of my spine look much better than they did a couple years ago, there's more space between my vertebra and I've gained about 1/2" in height.
I agree with Oberst's take it's easy talking about taking it slowly and using perfect technique but all it takes is a single mistake, people tend to test their limits on the exercise and max dead lifting for bragging rights.
Conventional deadlift….. tooooo technical for most… trap bar dead or sumo much safer and very effective… you can train the hinge pattern using a trap bar also and do RDL with it too
I’m a longtime lifter. 35 solid years of lifting. I got hurt lifting and during my time in the military. I was a very good at the dead lift. 9 surgeries later, I’m still in the gym and I can still challenge my muscles. However, I cannot perform full range deadlifts. BUT…I can perform half rack deadlifts. I’m a 13” from the ground vs. 9” from the ground at the bottom of the lift. I have managed to increase my flexibility and muscularity performing this exercise. I alternate it with a snatch grip to challenge my lats. I have had a shoulder replacement, 3 cervical fusions, and 2 lumbar laminectomies. I believe this would cripple a person who doesn’t have a lifetime of hard work behind them. Modify it, don’t cancel it. Worst case, find a close replacement. Great advice, Mr. Hooper.
@@prepped8551 for me, deadlift is more or less ego lift proof.... I think because starting from bottom, either it moves or doesn't. For squat, it's easy to ego lift and get injured tho.
i stopped caring about strength when i realised the heaviest things i carry are a suitcase when travelling, a fridge/couch when moving, and a big load of groceries
I definitely understood what Rob was saying. I absolutely shredded my back deadlifting with poor form and heavy weight. My back will never be the same and it was for absolutely nothing. There are many other exercises you can do instead. Deadlifting is awesome, but there is high risk for average lifters with little experience in the gym.
If you watch the whole discussion he was talking about straight bar deadlifts, he said you should be using a trap bar for deadlifting because the rate of injury is much lower
He didn't mention trap bar a single time during that podcast. And he's wrong anyway. Woman at my gym broke her back doing trap bar so there's that. Second, my glutes and hamstrings are very weak but my quads are strong. Trap bar deadlift for me would just be a quad exercise.
@@simenandersen3262 oh you know a lady that got hurt wow oh and what are you talking about, I have weak glutes and hamstrings from injuries and surgeries and trap bar dead lifts activate them more than squatting or normal deadlifts
@@ETAisNOW Because when you have your hands out to the sides, the quads can take up a greater part of the load because the trap bar allows you to push your knees further forward.
What else? Trap bar deadlifts. Trap bar deadlifts are a better lift for people that don't compete. The injury risk is lower because the "correct" form is much, much easier. The problem with regular deadlifts is that you're picking up pretty dangerous amounts of weight and there's a high amount of skill needed in order to do it safely. People are like "it's only dangerous if you do it WRONG" but that's not really saying much. The same applies to anything dangerous and skill based, like knife juggling, dirt bike jumping,or walking on a high wire 20ft off the ground. Those things are also pretty safe if you never ever mess up.
The whole point of deadlifting is strength for competing, either directly in strength sports, or in other sports. For pure hypertrophy you only need RDLs. Trap bear deadlifts suck at all of that.
Do RDL's, good mornings, sets of 8+ on deads if someone is worried or lower intensity levels. I am convinced there is no exercise you shouldn't do, there are just pros and cons with each one and the user/coach needs to make that decision. For instance I won't do low bar back squats seriously again after weighing my issues with it, but high bar, front squats, zerchers, and others are still good to go for me.
Been powerlifting for about a decade now. I've seen way more injuries in my fellow gym goers from bench press than deadlifts. I can count one deadlift injury (probable herniated disc). One squat injury (crushed fingers). I've seen at least a dozen bench related injuries happen. 3 dozen or so if you count guys who told me they got injured benching, but I wasn't there.
Depending on what your goal is doing deadlifts can be good and bad at the same time. If your goal in the gym is achieving hypetrophy, deadlift is probably not a key exercise to achieve that. If your goal is overall strength , than yes go for it.
Herniated my L5S1 deadlifting. Only reason I deadlifted was to say I could deadlift a lot, no other benefit. Years of physio and chiro, but never been the same since. Wouldn't recommend it.
he said this ages ago and i assumed he was meaning 1RM's which i agree with however i do think being able to comfortably do highish reps of your own body weight with of DL variations is important they are great movements and will significantly decrease the chance of silly little injuries a normal person might get
When I was 17 I had back pain because I was tall and never exercised. Then I started lifting and after a few months of deadlifts the pain went away and never returned. I'm 38 now and never had any pain since. No matter what I do. Best exercise ever.
I broke my back in 2007, had a heart attack in 2012. As long as you listen to your body, and don't overdo it, you can push, pull, hinge, carry, squat or overhead. press. Listen to your body, it just takes time. When I broke my back I didn't deadlift for at least 1 1/2 years. Now my deadlift is at 200 kilos. Listen to your body, it will tell you how much weight you can lift, and what exercises are right for you.
I used to injure my back muscles in the gym pretty regularly (A few times a year-ish, not every month or something. lol), but since I started deadlifting a couple years ago I haven't even tweaked it since. I think deadlifts are actually a good thing for injury prevention because it strengthens a weak link.
I’ve started doing deadlifts recently as an injury prevention tactic for running. Not only have they helped, I also now look forward to deadlift day almost more than running
I had nonspecific low back pain for years, starting from an age way too young to be complaining about low back pain, and what made it go away was deadlifting and stonelifting
To be fair to OB, what he was originally saying was that for sports where you don't need to literally deadlift; the risk:reward of Olympic lifting is much greater than the risk:reward of deadlifting. He wasn't talking about it in terms of rehab or injury prevention and if I remember correctly it was in terms of building explosive power and strength for football and wrestler type athletes.
Yes, for football players there's next to no reason to program deadlifts unless you're maybe in the off season. Power cleans from the floor or from hang are substantially better.
I think HEAVY deadlifting is one of the most dangerous lifts that you can do. It is the exercise that must be done with the utmost of technique. It’s definitely not the worst advice ever. Should he have specified heavy deadlifts? Yes. Is he a strong man and that’s obviously what he’s talking about? Yes. Is this clickbait? Yep. Welcome to RUclips. Is MH a good guy? Yep. Is he playing the YT game? Yep.
I'm pretty sure that in that interview Oberst was making the point that the risk reward ratio of doing trap bar deadlifts is much better than with a barbell.
I've had a back injury in the past from work. I had also suffered from lower back pain most of my adult life, and just put up with it. Since starting to deadlift, my back pain is non-existent. I started very light, made sure my form was good and now I can deadlift 220kg. Not any record number of course but more than the average person and my back feels great.
He is right about the deadlift, we dont need to do it. We can do loaded back extensions, good morning, rows, RDL. Conventional deadlift is not needed, even RDL is not needed. You can bulletproof your back with loaded back extensions and good mornings
💯 if you do a strength sport then of course deadlift is necessary. But it's absolutely unnecessary for people just trying to bodybuild or get strong in the gym. Plenty of exercises you can do to isolate the lower back, hamstrings ect that still carryover well. So even if you occasionally throw the deadlift in you'll still maintain and even build a lot of deadlift strength without doing the exercise.
Come on this is cherry picking. In that interview Oberst is saying that, unless you need to deadlift for a comp, you should chose to dl with a trap bar instead. He never said not to deadlift.
When people get really good at things, they tend to get to a point where they feel their experience is really typical and that often sours their opinions. Most people don't train deadlifts like an elite strongman desperate to keep up with his competitors. When I first started deadlifts it was hard, but I didn't conclude it feels unsafe it just highlighted for me what I already knew - that I need to build my back.
Precisely in that Oberst's experience is just that.. deadlift is/was his weakest event BY FAR.. so of course he's going to be like "well i haven't been able to get good at deadlifts so that means it isn't worth it.."
The opposite of what you've said is also true and I think people who haven't suffered back pain from deadlifts are biased by their experiences and think that they are typical.
@@goggins6121To just declare an exercise itself as unnecessary completely disregards individual circumstance. With a mentality like that, I hope you aren’t a coach. For example, I can say bicep exercises are unnecessary. After all, if you are doing a good amount of pulling exercises, then they tend to be the secondary engaged muscle group, especially with neutral grip variations. However, suppose I have a client whose weak point is their back. Of course I’m going to prescribe pulling exercises. But, by adding in a few exercises that hit biceps directly, I’m strengthening the muscle that literally helps the client pull heavier weight. On the other hand, if that client is bicep-dominant in which they have a hard time engaging the back bc biceps take over, then I am going to exclude bicep isolation exercises for the time being. When you say something is “unnecessary” it means it’s not needed or you don’t have to do it. Well, you don’t HAVE to do any exercise, so it’s a pointless statement. Instead, one component of proper programming is selecting exercises conducive to the person’s goal. And if a client hates the exercise assigned, there are plenty alternatives.
I never learned to properly deadlift, so I never have. But, I was taught proper form for Good Mornings, and that has been my go-to for lower back strength.
I'm personally not a big fan of heavy conventional deadlifts, but I agree that doing loaded hinge movements for reps is important for all-around functional health. The RDL with moderate weight and higher reps is my personal favorite.
Robert Oberst stated that the risk to reward is not worth it for the standard deadlift when trap-bar deadlift dose the same thing but has lower risk of injury.
Shit advice still. Hinging with the weight in front of you is much more important from and athletic and functional perspective. This is why Zerchers are great.
People need to ask themselves before they start working out what exactly is the goal , being healthy and mobile doesn't require you to lift insane weights , bad form and ego lifting is the main cause of injury at the gym.
I totally agree that deadlifts aren't essential to the average exercise program. Plenty of other exerises are available to get people fit and strong with less risk of injury.
Robert is dead on with his advice. Deadlifting, like all freeweight movements, have a higher risk vs machines. A seated low cable row, getting a deep stretch, is a viable alternative for hinge movement. Deadlift is terrible, unless you're training for deadlifting.
I guess everything in moderation. During the 2000's Louie Simmons wrote many articles about deadlift training. The stuff he mentioned were - Training the abs, especially standing abdominal exercises like side bends, standing cable crunches, landmine rotations. And exercises that train the hip flexors like hanging leg raises, lying leg raises, sit ups with legs straight. Then the hamstrings, and the exercises he most prescribe for lower back would be the reverse hyper. Simply because it deloads the spinal cord while training the lower back muscles and glutes.
I dont think this video is really about Robert Oberst. Mitch wanted to talk about why he thinks deadlifts are important and the video clip is his hook/clickbait.
that is so true - I forgot to brace properly before - and my disks bulged the L4 to S1. Never forget to brace or forget my cues anymore! Oh my goodness when I ended up in the hospital after injuring the ac joint(sublaxion) I was not a happy bunny!!! But my own fault. Bad technique no more! I can now deadlift fine again, and load my spine. Yes the ac area is a sore every workout, the actual more pain free day for me is dead lift! Oh flipping heck I promise anyone I was with chronic hyponatremia from 2018 - 2022 from my psych meds until my blood serum level dropped to 120 & i was in a wheelchair by the time I left the hospital. Now I can deadlift 110kg which for me is awesome! Gym saved me mentally and physically.
I'd argue that kettlebell swings are a good replace deadlifts if one is not competing. Also,trap bar deadlifts are much better for ppl w back issues and athletes anyway.
@mitchell what if part of what Robert said is true, hear me out. I used to pull competitively and obviously not your level in any way (I did 535 for a double conventional at 151lbs here in Nova Scotia), so I'm not new to lifting. What about how say, the deadlift is about a 3.5:1 ratio of hip to knee, as per scientific journals, whereas a trap bar is closer to 1:1. While I think deadlifts are the king to strength, I also think if you're not comfortable loading your hips, doing other variants is safer for a lot of people.
I can attest to that, I had chronic back pain, every single day I had lower back pain. I assumed it was due to my office job and sitting all the time. I incorporated bent over rows and deadlifts to my back day, slowly but surely. I haven't felt that pain anymore in a long time now and feel much better. So hinge movements are definitely a must. It was so frustrating because you really can't do anything to make the pain go away. I'd have to wait until I got home to more or less roll around on my back and do some stretching to get any relief.
100% agree, injuries are a result of a weakness in a movement, it's impossible to avoid hinging if you want a normal life so you need to practice it somehow. Any kind of ego lifting has the potential for injury, deadlifts just happen to be most people's heaviest exercise so the limits are pushed more often.
Herniated L4/L5, bulged S1 from a work injury in 2016. Out of work 2 years. Got into the worst shape of my life. Started lifting 2 years ago and pulled 5 plates last week. No more back pain 😊
100% perfect point. It's not the lift, it's doing the lift with poor form, too much weight/ego, not enough groundwork, etc. But... "Not going to the gym is going to guarantee injuries going down the track." I think Mitch here means not doing some kind of resistance work with an eye towards function and resilience will guarantee injury. Plenty of people out there who don't do the whole gym thing are strong and injury free.
I injured my back doing construction digging holes when I was 18. Lived in pain for almost 10yrs. Wasn't able to sleep much more than 4hrs at a time because my back would be on fire. Got lucky with an awesome chiropractor, didn't know how awesome he was until he retired and I went through a bunch of chiropractors after. Was tired of my constant back pain. Heard Louie Simmons talk about good mornings and gave them a try. I practiced with a pvc pipe for like 2 weeks, watched multiple videos from multiple sources on ques and technique before touching an empty bar. Once I felt comfortable got under a bar. Over about a year I got up to 285lbs for 10, was scared to go under 10's. Went from barely able to get out of bed and overweight to pain free in a few months. Best decision I ever made. Our bodies are incredible self healing machines. Faced the same issue a few years ago when I tore 2 stabilizer muscles in my shoulder. I did everything I could to rehab it since I didn't have insurance. Finally 3 yrs later have insurance and PT fixed me right up. Went from barely able to lift 10lbs over my head a year ago to Overhead pressing 145lbs for 5 last week.
Deadlifts changed my life exponentially. My quality of life skyrocketed. My everyday life is so much better. Reward is very much worth it. Just dont ego lift and make sure youre using strick form and the benefit is heavenly.
I would disagree, mostly because safety of a lift outside of equipment itself is a matter almost entirely of volume. Further, lacking a physical cue like dragging the bar along the shins means trap bar lifts tend to vary far more which is loading unprepared tissues and causing lower stimulus to the intended tissues. What folks mean is because a trap bar brings the weight in slightly closer, the amount of weight deadlifted may increase, and done at the same weight this is "safer" than conventional... like doing incline press weight for flat bench.
I have chronic low back pain from a car accident related injury. Deadlifts for me have been life changing. Barbell hinging movements in general have strengthened my body so much and have taken me from someone who was basically made of glass to someone who can train combat sports with confidence. I can take hits and falls and yes I still have to be smart about it but the point is that heavy hinging movements gave me my life back. Be smart. Use good form. Don’t push past what you’re capable of. But if you slowly look to gradually increase your capabilities you will be amazed at how much progress you can make.
Thanks for being such a great ambassador of your sport. I remember having had pain in the back, neck and forearms from working in front of a computer all day long at 40 years old -- this was in 2012. When I started lifting -- and deadlifting -- in 2013, those problems vanished within a few months. I was still working long hours in front of that same computer screen, but my body became a lot sturdier and could handle that stressor no problem. I went from nearly chronic back pain in 2012 to entering a car deadlift in 2016 and achieving double-digit reps. Deadlifting is fun!
The points of supporting Oberst statement : Most of people who go to the gym have very little knowledge about the deadlift technique. And they still do it, specially youngsters while making phone pics for their friends to show how many plates they can lift. Big toll on central nervus system - it takes at few days to recover from deadlift session. High blood pressure - bloody noses, ect. And yes, a lot of those points can be solved with correct coaching, skipping ego lifting, ect.
Thank you for the videos Mitch, im 41, weigh 83kgs and your videos helped me finally achieve the 1000lb challenge a few weeks back, in particular progression with the deadlift. Many thanks for your help and love watching you compete
I have injured my back (same location) on two different occasions: 1. First or second time sumo deadlifting, went a bit too heavy and didn't have good form. 2. About two and a half years later, doing squats with moderately heavy weight (like 70-80% of max). I probably had butt wink as I tended to go ATA, or at least well below parallel. However insofar as I am aware, I never injured myself doing conventional deadlifts. However, they may have contributed to the injury incident(s) as at the time of the second injury I was doing more deadlift volume than I ever had before (I wanted to up my deadlift max) and outside of that I had been sitting every day for 10+ hours either working or doing my school work for the previous 7 years, which I think contributed to my disc being prone to a bulge.
I feel like 1 thing that doesn't get mentioned enough for people not competing is just to use straps. Mix grip which is often the solution for lack of grip strength greatly increases the risk of bicep injury.
For reference I'm a Chiropractor and personal trainer. Here's my 2 cents. I’ve consistently experienced back pain aggravation with deadlifts despite adjusting load, technique, frequency, and form. After years of trial and error, I found that switching to exercises like lunges, hip thrusts, and Bulgarian split squats (hip hinge "ish") not only reduced the recurrence of my back pain but actually relieved it. From my experience treating patients, 8 or 9 out of 10 injuries I see that come from the gym are related to deadlifts-not because deadlifts are inherently bad, but because they are IMO a higher-risk exercise and may not suit every individual (even with proper technique). When it comes to managing back pain, I’d also like to note that for acute low back pain, exercise is NOT superior to standard care and could potentially cause harm. For chronic pain, however, exercise is likely the most beneficial thing you can do, but not necessarily for reasons most people assume. Research consistently indicates that it’s not the improvements in fitness metrics like strength, range of motion, or muscular endurance that eases chronic back pain, but rather the neurological adaptations that result from performing pain-free movements. That’s why, in my opinion, if an exercise consistently causes pain, it’s best to avoid it; if it doesn’t, do more of it.
Yet, the amount of guys at the gym with back issues from their deadlifting phase is real. We all use terrible form. It happens when we are tired or pushing ourselves. We all make mistakes. I went in an ambulance to hospital with deadlift injury. Luckily I hadn’t done any damage and am one of the few guys at the gym at 52 that has a perfect back. I have never hurt myself doing hyperextensions.
Whenever people say deadlifting is dangerous or bad for your back, I always refer to a line I heard like 8 years ago. Deadlifts can hurt people's backs, but if more people did deadlifts, there would be fewer hurt backs. I don't remember where I read it or who it was from, but I've found it really helps people understand the importance of the deadlift just for everyday life.
Best advice is to do the lifts you want to do (and learn to do them the proper way)! I hear a lot of trash talk about benching, for instance, but It's my passion, so that's what I'm going to do. Great video as always!
Have always loved the deadlift, but Oberst is correct.. Broke my articular lip in my hip-socket because of sumo-deadlift. Ended up having to get a complete hip-replacement at age 31.. I know this is an edge case but just be aware that you have to be careful. My form was perfect.. The doctors had seen it a couple of times before. This would properly not have happened if I was doing regular. My leg-training is not, and will never be the same again... BE CAREFUL!
I’m 23 and have had left low back pain since 18. I’ve tried so many different interventions like PRP, steroid injections, nerve ablation, PT, and eventually got an SI joint fusion, which now I completely regret because I have less capacity for activity and it hurts more than before. I used to be able to bike and walk quite a bit, but now if I bike 10-15 minutes it flares up and is irritated for hours. Before surgery I tried to use deadlifts and other hinge patterns but lifting in general would always make it hurt more after and the next day. The bird dog doesn’t feel good for me, same as side planks. I’ve done so many stabilizing exercise it’s insane. My issue is just not knowing if movement actually helps. And if it does, how to SLOWLY progress hinge movements to eventually maybe deadlift. Cause I’ve started super light and added 5 lbs each week and that still caught up to me where the pain prevented me from adding weight despite it being like 85 lbs
RDLs and back extensions are fine if you can't or won't deadlift, with glute bridges and some adductor/abductor work, you got a nice lower back/spinal mobility PT session. superior unless you're trying to lift a lot. not bad. just not ideal for most people.
I had terrible back issues in my late teen years. Deadlifting basically cured me. I almost never have back pain anymore and I'm 40. As long as you're doing it correctly, it's an incredible exercise.
i watched that episode of JRE with Obe when it came out ... i think you're taking him out of context here. you would have to give what the conversation was about and show that he gave his own qualifying information with it; he didn't just say "don't deadlift".
I threw my back out at the beginning of 2021, and ended up having incredible low back pain, to where I could barely walk. I've always suffered from low back pain, but this injury caused me to become sedentary and I ended up gaining a lot of weight. I was diagnosed with degenerative disc disease between L1 and S5. Went to chiropractors, had injection surgeries between those discs, and was on track from my Dr. to have surgery to fuse the vertebrae. I said hell naw to that, and started to go back to the gym a year and a half ago, focusing on core and back strengthening exercises, cardio, and general strength training. Once I was comfortable, I started doing deadlifts, and my back pain started to melt away. I can now do 225x5, and while that's not a lot, it's a huge improvement from not being able to walk/function or play with my daughter to now running half marathons and living with ZERO pain for the first time in years. Deadlifts may have very well saved my life. Love your content Mitch! Keep it goin!!
I haven't been able to or wanted to do deadlifts in over 10 years after a jujitsu injury. I've been doing yoga since which has completely changed my life for the better. It's personal experience.
I disagree. I dont deadlift anymore. why? what muscle is it targeting? All of them? The fatigue is really high - what does the lift target glutes, hamstrings, back?. It is hard to fit into a routine. Because it targets every, and nothing at the same time.
He is right, deadlift is waste of time for most people. Pretty much zero actual athletes are doing it. Some MMA fighters do hex bar deadlift, which is far more functional, however, not needed at all. Deadlifted for 10 years, repped 505 for 10+ reps at 200 lbs, stopped deadlifting, and NOTHING about my physique changed to the worse, actually i just grew thicker and wider thanks to rowing and doing more back exercises. But sure, do it if you like it. No exercise is a must do exercise.
Recently I developed a bad anterior pelvic tilt from not training my posterior chain correctly. I realized that was the issue when the back pain got so severe that I was desperately trying to find a corrective exercise and randomly decided to pick up a deadlift bar someone left lightly loaded - one set caused instant relief. I hadn't deadlifted in about 4.5 years, but I remembered the form and did them persistently for a few weeks until I could identify some replacement exercises to use with my squats instead, since that's the movement I prefer, and never felt like I was at risk of injury because it was literally correcting an injury I'd given myself. You don't have to do deadlifts specifically if you don't want to, but if you don't train the muscles that lift targets while consistently training the crap out of the antagonist muscle groups, then you're going to pay for it.
I dunno, I’m not a professional, I am only DL’ing 120 lbs (41 year old female, on the StrongLifts 5x5 program started in late September) and I get excited for deadlift days! I was an athlete in HS (field hockey and lacrosse) so lifting and form aren’t foreign to me, but it’s been years since I DL’ed, squatted, rowed, or OHP’ed with a loaded barbell and I gotta say, I love it!!! 🤷🏻♀️
That's great! Don't let any of those juiced dudes persuade you otherwise. Deadlifting is fine. I don't know your physique but you'll be lifting 225 for sure 💪🏻 females.
@ thank you! I’m 5’4 and actively losing weight (went Carnivore on 1/20/24, and have lost 113 lbs since, so now I’m working on building muscle). My goal is to DL 350 by this time next year.
@@HeidiWillToWin 🤯 that's insane. Huge respect 💪🏻. Focus on the health benefits, secondarily get effin strong. Whatever you end up with, it was a mighty undertaking.
I had lower back pain from about middle school on to my freshman year in college, and general back soreness for years after that. Two things that made a drastic improvement: Increasing flexibility (got me from being essentially bed ridden for a few days a year when my back was out) and deadlifts. Since I started routinely deadlifting, I've had zero chronic back issues. The only relapse I had was on me. Treated a light lift without respect, and got hurt.
I’ve always said that the deadlift is arguably the best exercise for anyone looking to maximise growth from the gym, I think what oburst said was ridiculous, I’m thankful that we have someone like yourself to comment on this who actually has the years of educational and academic training behind him
Heard the same from an internationally competitive powerlifter. He saw me deadlifting in a gym and asked if I'm planning to compete. I said I didn't have such plans at the time (was too weak back then). He told me that squat gives a better load pattern for general muscle development than deadlift, so if I'm not a competitive powerlifter, I should squat more instead of deadlifting at all. I took his advice to heart and started training to compete instead of ditching deadlift.
This speaks to me so loudly. I had low back pain with sciatica for more than 10 years. Tried several different chiropractors that only worked temporarily through the years. I was running out of options other than surgery. But then I started deadlifting, starting light of course and making sure I was doing them correctly. After just a few months my back pain started going away and eventually became virtually non-existent compared to how it used to be. At first, it was really tough just using the bar (45lbs) and I sure wasn't convinced this would work for me. But I kept going. Month after month slowly moving weight up. Stay consistent with it and don't give up. Today I can now deadlift 355lbs and my back is feeling so good from where it was before. So thanks to you Mitchell and many other videos of doctors and physical therapists, my low back is so much better. My strength is way up. Now I have a shoulder impingement I am working on.. but that's a different story. I am 50 years old, about to turn 51 next month and I am stronger than ever before these days. Mitchell I love your videos and I love watching you perform in your training and in the shows. Keep it up man, you have lots of fans who love you dude.
I have the complete opposite experience and a lot of others do. Deadlifting is what fked us up. Going hard and bad form and a lot of weight of course. If I had to go back in the past I would tell myself to stop at 275 and do no more ever
I also suffered with back pain after getting hit by a truck. Deadlifting with purpose and care contributes greatly to my back health and overall strength journey. Knowledge is always a good thing no matter what you are doing.
@@Freshprankstv1 I injured my back with deadlifts and deadlifts also helped me so much with getting back to lifting. There is no reason to stop deadlifting imo. People just need to educate themselves more and do the deadlifts properly. Of course it's not an easy lift if you need to use your whole body, it's by far the most complex.
What you should try is seated deadlifts half the time, so picking a dumbbell off of the floor in a seated position, this trains the lowerback in a different way and is really good for the bullet proofing of the lower back. Hope this helps if you try this 🙂
@@Freshprankstv1Right, so that means deadlifting didn’t F you up. You did because it sounds like you did an exercise without instruction. That’s not a dig at you - like you said, people so that a lot.
The overall problem is people don’t realize weight training exercises involve skill and technique, which must be learned.
It’s no different than any other recreational activity: at the beginning you can get away with just moving and having fun. But as you progress and you decide to take it a bit more seriously, then you have to eat some humble pie and learn the basics.
I was paralyzed for several years because my L5-S1collapsed
Heavy weight lifting, especially deadlifting
1. increased my bone density,
2. helped decrease muscle imbalances in my posterior chain causing hyperlordosis
3. Decreased risks of injury
Just pulled 501.2lbs at the USAPL booth in Olympia this year
-edit-
I didn't start lifting until after the paralysis, and surgery. It didn't cause it.
To explain what happend and how lifting helped
A combination of hyperlordosis, low density, and juvenile rheumetoid arthritis caused my disc to bulge and pop. Eventually the gel in the disc emptied and the vertabrae settled on my sciatic nerve, paralyzing my left quad and part of the hamstring for 3 years. The surgeries required were a laminectomy and discectomy and arthritis had been building in the surrounding tissue.
1. Hyperlordosis a spine curvature caused by a combination of
A. Tight shortened hip flexors which connect at the lower spine
B. Weak stretched hamstring connected to the other side of the spine
Deadlifting and full range front squats strengthed my hamstrings and glutes pulling my spine back, and stretched my flexors allowing them to release
2. Low bone density occurs when a lack of force production happens such as running and jumping, or gravity in the case of astronauts (20% bone density reduction from 6 months of no gravity). The skeletal muscle force against bones reinforces this.
A progressive overload in weightlifting greatly speeds this up and can help make you bones not just average, but "super" human.
3. Arthritis
I can't fully explain it but maybe through the lifestyle changes such as diet,stress management and healthy sleep it no longer bothers me and seems to have gone away.
Would be cool if someone with more knowledge had input on that.
Just building muscle in that area alone helped alleviate the pressure put on the spinal column itself
So you did not learn your lesson?
@Bulsebub Learned an amazing lesson. Deadlift for health and happiness.
Fuck yeah, Zack! Good job, homie!
I tell people I cured my chronic back pain of 30 years with carefully titrated deadlifts. Shout out to Barbell Medicine for the education to do so.
❤💪
Mitch is right on. The fact that deadlifts “cause” injury is exactly why it’s important to learn, progressively, to pick up heavy things safely in a way that stresses the weak link (or never pick anything up again to protect it).
I’m a carpenter and had increasing chronic low back pain, then broke my back in a motorcycle accident. I’m now 43, 11yrs out for the accident. I just deadlifted 635 and have a strong resilient, mobile back.
If you think that lifting 635 lbs is somehow good for your back you're delusional and will have a rude awakening unfortunately.
Also it did not fix your back. Try not going to the gym for 2 weeks, the pain will come and will be worse than before because of the deadlifts
@@facebookrealthe OP had low back pain because he didn’t do deadlifts, and when he did deadlifts, the pain went away. So the deadlifts did in fact help fix his back. Furthermore, deadlifting 635 is NOT bad for your back if you use proper technique. If you personally don’t like deadlifts, that’s fine, but don’t spread misinformation just because you personally don’t like deadlifts
3 things here.
I didn’t say deadlifting a lot of weight is good for my back. I said the processing of building resilience and capability has been good. Most of work is moderate weight and high reps with short rest intervals.
I have gone multiple months, multiple times without deadlifting or any other heavy compound lifts over the last ten years and I did feel less mobile and strong, but pain did not come back.
I didn’t say deadlifting ( especially super heavy) is the one thing for everyone.
I’m saying that building resilience helped me. If controlling your environment and never letting yourself do a thing that might aggravate a weak painful back is your thing, that’s fine. ( that is what most of my friends have done and I still love them) My life involves carrying plywood on angled roofs, lifting heavy beams, playing with my kids, helping friends move heavy objects, etc, and I’m glad I’m able to do those things with joy and comfort.
@@sethpendergrass9255 those are good points. It sounds like deadlifts helped you, in that the deadlifts gave you the resilience needed to do your work. I didn’t mean to imply that deadlifts were the ONLY thing that helped you, but they helped you somewhat.
Also, just to be clear, I wasn’t saying that heavy deadlifts are always the answer. If lower weight and higher reps works for you, then do that. I was simply pointing out that heavy deadlifts aren’t inherently dangerous (which is what the first commenter seemed to be saying).
Still, I’m happy to hear that your back is doing a lot better 😊
My comment was in response to “Facebookreal”. Sorry for the confusion.
He didn’t say you shouldn’t hinge; he said you shouldn’t heavy deadlift. Plenty of hinge movements that aren’t a heavy deadlift.
when someone says "stop doing deadlifts" I correct them by saying "You mean: stop doing deadlifts WRONG"
This comment deserves more likes
Oberst is not smart and doesnt know how to train. So he just has never done em right. Even though he is still really strong. His deadlift form is pretty bad for a competitive strongman
And then someone corrects you by saying, "You mean 'incorrectly'".
& stop going heavier than your prepared to go. Work your way up gradually, & don’t fail a deadlift attempt twice in the same week
Many professional a lifter has hurt themselves deadlifting young and old. It is inherently more in jury prone than other lifts that still cause injury.
Oberst didn’t say to not do the hinge pattern. He recommended the hang clean in that interview.
Hang cleans are good but do NOT offer the strength stimulus a heavy deadlift does.
hang cleans also arent a full hinge. You're not supposed to drive your hips forwards in a clean, you drive your legs and hips upwards. Treating the hang clean like a hinge ends up throwing the bar forwards through an arc, instead of straight up like its supposed to be executed
@ yes but the point of what I said was that he did not disregard the hinge pattern. The interview discussed his injury with deadlifts and how he saw more pro athletes using the hang clean. The full interview does not say what Mitch claimed.
He said power cleans
As someone who did heavy deadlifts in my youth, now at 45 I find SLDL a better movement; lower weight, and less strain on the spine column.
I remember when I first heard Rob say that. I don’t even think he believes that.
If he does, it would explain why he was so mid tier...
He's back deadlifting, so probably not.
The bit left out was that he was talking about doing 1 rep maxes no necessarily not deadlifting at all
@kettlebells-ez9xi i didn't hear any reference to max efforts in the whole interview, so i call bullshit on that. Besides, the whole premise of max effort day in Westside requires a 1-3 rep max effort once per week of lower body exercises (which includes deads)
@@narcissus79 that was just about the oberst clip I w a s talkin
We're missing some context here. Oberst seemed to be talking about doing heavy deadlifts for football specifically. He said football players are programmed power cleans, and hang power cleans as they are much more beneficial for the sport. I agree with this for the most part. People shouldn't be taking the clip out of context for a free and easy dunk on him for no reason.
Exactly, up
I disagree, I watched the interview and am a big oberst fan. That said, he did not seem to be speaking to football players he basically said if your sport doesn’t require deadlifts don’t do deadlifts
You are absolutely wrong. He's making a general statement about not deadlifting unless you are trying to be a better deadlifter then uses football players programming to justify it.
No, he is saying don't deadlift unless what you are doing specifically requires it, and uses football as an example.
If deadlifts were the be-all-and-end-all exercise, you would see every athlete doing them. But you don't.
context. this is clickbait
I have a severe degenerative spinal condition and started having back pain in my late teens. I've lifted weights on and off for over 38 years. I've always blamed my back issues on heavy lifting but never did heavy deadlifts for fear of making my back issues worse. The most I ever deadlifted during a workout before 2024 was 225 lbs. and that was only on a few rare occasions when I was young, though I occasionally lifted objects that were much heavier when I needed to. I did stiff-leg deadlifts as a stretching and warmup movement rarely going over 135 lbs. For the past year I've been doing stiff-leg barbell deadlifts every week working up to about 80% of my one-rep max over about 8 sets. I typically lift in the 265-285 range regularly and sometimes go as high as 315 for a few reps. My back has never felt this good, no pain anymore, better mobility and stronger than ever at 54 years old. I realize now I wasn't training my back hard enough all of those years, it was a lagging body part from neglect. I'm sure the opposite can happen from lifting too heavy, not keeping strict form and not recovering fully between workouts but neglecting your back isn't good either. X-rays of my spine look much better than they did a couple years ago, there's more space between my vertebra and I've gained about 1/2" in height.
I agree with Oberst's take it's easy talking about taking it slowly and using perfect technique but all it takes is a single mistake, people tend to test their limits on the exercise and max dead lifting for bragging rights.
Deadlifting with moderately heavy weight and with proper technique actually popped a disc back in place and releaved my lower back pain immediately.
Conventional deadlift….. tooooo technical for most… trap bar dead or sumo much safer and very effective… you can train the hinge pattern using a trap bar also and do RDL with it too
I’m a longtime lifter. 35 solid years of lifting. I got hurt lifting and during my time in the military. I was a very good at the dead lift. 9 surgeries later, I’m still in the gym and I can still challenge my muscles. However, I cannot perform full range deadlifts.
BUT…I can perform half rack deadlifts. I’m a 13” from the ground vs. 9” from the ground at the bottom of the lift. I have managed to increase my flexibility and muscularity performing this exercise. I alternate it with a snatch grip to challenge my lats.
I have had a shoulder replacement, 3 cervical fusions, and 2 lumbar laminectomies. I believe this would cripple a person who doesn’t have a lifetime of hard work behind them.
Modify it, don’t cancel it. Worst case, find a close replacement.
Great advice, Mr. Hooper.
I think the message here is "don't ego lift". Follow that rule and you'll be fine. Actually you won't be fine, you'll be better.
@@prepped8551 for me, deadlift is more or less ego lift proof.... I think because starting from bottom, either it moves or doesn't. For squat, it's easy to ego lift and get injured tho.
i stopped caring about strength when i realised the heaviest things i carry are a suitcase when travelling, a fridge/couch when moving, and a big load of groceries
Thats why you weak and gay.
I definitely understood what Rob was saying. I absolutely shredded my back deadlifting with poor form and heavy weight. My back will never be the same and it was for absolutely nothing. There are many other exercises you can do instead. Deadlifting is awesome, but there is high risk for average lifters with little experience in the gym.
If you watch the whole discussion he was talking about straight bar deadlifts, he said you should be using a trap bar for deadlifting because the rate of injury is much lower
No dude this is the new world, we take things out of context and make a thing out of if.
He didn't mention trap bar a single time during that podcast. And he's wrong anyway. Woman at my gym broke her back doing trap bar so there's that.
Second, my glutes and hamstrings are very weak but my quads are strong. Trap bar deadlift for me would just be a quad exercise.
Even then you can't generalize that straight bar deadlifts are dangerous. Didn't you watch the fucking video?
@@simenandersen3262 oh you know a lady that got hurt wow oh and what are you talking about, I have weak glutes and hamstrings from injuries and surgeries and trap bar dead lifts activate them more than squatting or normal deadlifts
@@ETAisNOW Because when you have your hands out to the sides, the quads can take up a greater part of the load because the trap bar allows you to push your knees further forward.
I turned 65 this past year. Been Deadlifting and variants ,as well as squats every week for the past Thirty years. Feelin great and strong !
Excellent! Hope to say the same in twenty years sir
What else? Trap bar deadlifts.
Trap bar deadlifts are a better lift for people that don't compete. The injury risk is lower because the "correct" form is much, much easier.
The problem with regular deadlifts is that you're picking up pretty dangerous amounts of weight and there's a high amount of skill needed in order to do it safely.
People are like "it's only dangerous if you do it WRONG" but that's not really saying much. The same applies to anything dangerous and skill based, like knife juggling, dirt bike jumping,or walking on a high wire 20ft off the ground. Those things are also pretty safe if you never ever mess up.
The whole point of deadlifting is strength for competing, either directly in strength sports, or in other sports. For pure hypertrophy you only need RDLs. Trap bear deadlifts suck at all of that.
Do RDL's, good mornings, sets of 8+ on deads if someone is worried or lower intensity levels. I am convinced there is no exercise you shouldn't do, there are just pros and cons with each one and the user/coach needs to make that decision.
For instance I won't do low bar back squats seriously again after weighing my issues with it, but high bar, front squats, zerchers, and others are still good to go for me.
Been powerlifting for about a decade now. I've seen way more injuries in my fellow gym goers from bench press than deadlifts. I can count one deadlift injury (probable herniated disc). One squat injury (crushed fingers). I've seen at least a dozen bench related injuries happen. 3 dozen or so if you count guys who told me they got injured benching, but I wasn't there.
Depending on what your goal is doing deadlifts can be good and bad at the same time. If your goal in the gym is achieving hypetrophy, deadlift is probably not a key exercise to achieve that. If your goal is overall strength , than yes go for it.
Herniated my L5S1 deadlifting. Only reason I deadlifted was to say I could deadlift a lot, no other benefit. Years of physio and chiro, but never been the same since. Wouldn't recommend it.
he said this ages ago and i assumed he was meaning 1RM's which i agree with however i do think being able to comfortably do highish reps of your own body weight with of DL variations is important they are great movements and will significantly decrease the chance of silly little injuries a normal person might get
When I was 17 I had back pain because I was tall and never exercised. Then I started lifting and after a few months of deadlifts the pain went away and never returned. I'm 38 now and never had any pain since. No matter what I do. Best exercise ever.
I broke my back in 2007, had a heart attack in 2012.
As long as you listen to your body, and don't overdo it, you can push, pull, hinge, carry, squat or overhead. press. Listen to your body, it just takes time. When I broke my back I didn't deadlift for at least 1 1/2 years. Now my deadlift is at 200 kilos. Listen to your body, it will tell you how much weight you can lift, and what exercises are right for you.
I had total hip replacement surgery last month, I can't walk properly yet but I'm already deadlifting. Feels good man.
i like the grind 🙏
I have a friend who did the same...
Here's to a speedy recovery. Should be good rehab. As long as it doesn't make it hurt more, it should help. If it does, scale back.
@@espenstoro Thanks, I have had 2 replacements and one arthroscopic hip surgery. I'm very experienced with recovery, definitely taking it easy.
I used to injure my back muscles in the gym pretty regularly (A few times a year-ish, not every month or something. lol), but since I started deadlifting a couple years ago I haven't even tweaked it since. I think deadlifts are actually a good thing for injury prevention because it strengthens a weak link.
the only injuries i've ever had in the gym were from deadlifting.
How bad was it ?
Explain your mistake and what you did wrong.
I’ve started doing deadlifts recently as an injury prevention tactic for running. Not only have they helped, I also now look forward to deadlift day almost more than running
I had nonspecific low back pain for years, starting from an age way too young to be complaining about low back pain, and what made it go away was deadlifting and stonelifting
I have a bum shoulder That I've been working on so I've found good mornings to be A good alternative to deadlifts
To be fair to OB, what he was originally saying was that for sports where you don't need to literally deadlift; the risk:reward of Olympic lifting is much greater than the risk:reward of deadlifting. He wasn't talking about it in terms of rehab or injury prevention and if I remember correctly it was in terms of building explosive power and strength for football and wrestler type athletes.
Yes, for football players there's next to no reason to program deadlifts unless you're maybe in the off season. Power cleans from the floor or from hang are substantially better.
He recomended hang cleans and power cleans. That means not squating down to catch the bar. Cleans like that are less risky then deadlifts.
I think HEAVY deadlifting is one of the most dangerous lifts that you can do. It is the exercise that must be done with the utmost of technique. It’s definitely not the worst advice ever. Should he have specified heavy deadlifts? Yes. Is he a strong man and that’s obviously what he’s talking about? Yes. Is this clickbait? Yep. Welcome to RUclips. Is MH a good guy? Yep. Is he playing the YT game? Yep.
I'm pretty sure that in that interview Oberst was making the point that the risk reward ratio of doing trap bar deadlifts is much better than with a barbell.
Nothing has lowered my amount of back pain more than getting up from my chair, going to the gym and doing deads
I've had a back injury in the past from work. I had also suffered from lower back pain most of my adult life, and just put up with it. Since starting to deadlift, my back pain is non-existent. I started very light, made sure my form was good and now I can deadlift 220kg. Not any record number of course but more than the average person and my back feels great.
He is right about the deadlift, we dont need to do it. We can do loaded back extensions, good morning, rows, RDL. Conventional deadlift is not needed, even RDL is not needed. You can bulletproof your back with loaded back extensions and good mornings
Reverse hypers for the win
💯 if you do a strength sport then of course deadlift is necessary. But it's absolutely unnecessary for people just trying to bodybuild or get strong in the gym. Plenty of exercises you can do to isolate the lower back, hamstrings ect that still carryover well. So even if you occasionally throw the deadlift in you'll still maintain and even build a lot of deadlift strength without doing the exercise.
Deadlift is king
Come on this is cherry picking. In that interview Oberst is saying that, unless you need to deadlift for a comp, you should chose to dl with a trap bar instead. He never said not to deadlift.
When people get really good at things, they tend to get to a point where they feel their experience is really typical and that often sours their opinions. Most people don't train deadlifts like an elite strongman desperate to keep up with his competitors. When I first started deadlifts it was hard, but I didn't conclude it feels unsafe it just highlighted for me what I already knew - that I need to build my back.
Precisely in that Oberst's experience is just that.. deadlift is/was his weakest event BY FAR.. so of course he's going to be like "well i haven't been able to get good at deadlifts so that means it isn't worth it.."
The opposite of what you've said is also true and I think people who haven't suffered back pain from deadlifts are biased by their experiences and think that they are typical.
I think Rob was talking about if your not doing comps you don't need to do heavy dead lift.
If you’re not doing heavy deadlifts, you’re not doing anything, a bit of an unmentioned point in the video.
@@davidoa3276 good thing deadlifts are totally unecessary
Rob is an idiot.
@@goggins6121To just declare an exercise itself as unnecessary completely disregards individual circumstance. With a mentality like that, I hope you aren’t a coach.
For example, I can say bicep exercises are unnecessary. After all, if you are doing a good amount of pulling exercises, then they tend to be the secondary engaged muscle group, especially with neutral grip variations.
However, suppose I have a client whose weak point is their back. Of course I’m going to prescribe pulling exercises. But, by adding in a few exercises that hit biceps directly, I’m strengthening the muscle that literally helps the client pull heavier weight.
On the other hand, if that client is bicep-dominant in which they have a hard time engaging the back bc biceps take over, then I am going to exclude bicep isolation exercises for the time being.
When you say something is “unnecessary” it means it’s not needed or you don’t have to do it. Well, you don’t HAVE to do any exercise, so it’s a pointless statement. Instead, one component of proper programming is selecting exercises conducive to the person’s goal. And if a client hates the exercise assigned, there are plenty alternatives.
@@goggins6121 Worst comment I think I've ever read.
I never learned to properly deadlift, so I never have. But, I was taught proper form for Good Mornings, and that has been my go-to for lower back strength.
The trap bar is much less likely to cause injury than straight-bar dls.
I'm personally not a big fan of heavy conventional deadlifts, but I agree that doing loaded hinge movements for reps is important for all-around functional health. The RDL with moderate weight and higher reps is my personal favorite.
Robert Oberst stated that the risk to reward is not worth it for the standard deadlift when trap-bar deadlift dose the same thing but has lower risk of injury.
Shit advice still. Hinging with the weight in front of you is much more important from and athletic and functional perspective. This is why Zerchers are great.
People need to ask themselves before they start working out what exactly is the goal , being healthy and mobile doesn't require you to lift insane weights , bad form and ego lifting is the main cause of injury at the gym.
Wasn’t this like 5 years ago?!
tbf, the title didn't say, "The newest worst advice" also, there are new people all the time that have never heard this before.
@ dragging up old controversies for clicks is a waste of time for someone as busy as successful as Mr. Hooper
@@kylew7930especially with robbie just now trying to make a return to the sport,
@@kylew7930it’s still being quoted to this day and mitch has the right to react to older content aswell ffs
@@kylew7930he is going after the comment, not the man.
I totally agree that deadlifts aren't essential to the average exercise program. Plenty of other exerises are available to get people fit and strong with less risk of injury.
Robert is dead on with his advice. Deadlifting, like all freeweight movements, have a higher risk vs machines. A seated low cable row, getting a deep stretch, is a viable alternative for hinge movement. Deadlift is terrible, unless you're training for deadlifting.
that's if one of your goals is to be strong. there's a lot of people that lift where that isn't their goal
I had great benefits from deadlifts, I also had the worst injury of my life from deadlifting.
If you're not competing with a straight bar, just hex bar deadlift.
Deadlifts are the leg press of free weight exercises. Everyone wants to show how much weight they can move.
I guess everything in moderation. During the 2000's Louie Simmons wrote many articles about deadlift training. The stuff he mentioned were - Training the abs, especially standing abdominal exercises like side bends, standing cable crunches, landmine rotations. And exercises that train the hip flexors like hanging leg raises, lying leg raises, sit ups with legs straight.
Then the hamstrings, and the exercises he most prescribe for lower back would be the reverse hyper. Simply because it deloads the spinal cord while training the lower back muscles and glutes.
This is from over 5 years ago, why comment on this now? You should have reached out to him to see if he still feels this way even.
I dont think this video is really about Robert Oberst. Mitch wanted to talk about why he thinks deadlifts are important and the video clip is his hook/clickbait.
It is the what, not the who
that is so true - I forgot to brace properly before - and my disks bulged the L4 to S1. Never forget to brace or forget my cues anymore! Oh my goodness when I ended up in the hospital after injuring the ac joint(sublaxion) I was not a happy bunny!!! But my own fault. Bad technique no more! I can now deadlift fine again, and load my spine. Yes the ac area is a sore every workout, the actual more pain free day for me is dead lift! Oh flipping heck I promise anyone I was with chronic hyponatremia from 2018 - 2022 from my psych meds until my blood serum level dropped to 120 & i was in a wheelchair by the time I left the hospital. Now I can deadlift 110kg which for me is awesome! Gym saved me mentally and physically.
I'd argue that kettlebell swings are a good replace deadlifts if one is not competing. Also,trap bar deadlifts are much better for ppl w back issues and athletes anyway.
@mitchell what if part of what Robert said is true, hear me out. I used to pull competitively and obviously not your level in any way (I did 535 for a double conventional at 151lbs here in Nova Scotia), so I'm not new to lifting. What about how say, the deadlift is about a 3.5:1 ratio of hip to knee, as per scientific journals, whereas a trap bar is closer to 1:1. While I think deadlifts are the king to strength, I also think if you're not comfortable loading your hips, doing other variants is safer for a lot of people.
I can attest to that, I had chronic back pain, every single day I had lower back pain. I assumed it was due to my office job and sitting all the time. I incorporated bent over rows and deadlifts to my back day, slowly but surely. I haven't felt that pain anymore in a long time now and feel much better. So hinge movements are definitely a must. It was so frustrating because you really can't do anything to make the pain go away. I'd have to wait until I got home to more or less roll around on my back and do some stretching to get any relief.
Yeah just don’t go too heavy and slip a disk like I did… may end up with worse back pain for the rest of your life lol
100% agree, injuries are a result of a weakness in a movement, it's impossible to avoid hinging if you want a normal life so you need to practice it somehow. Any kind of ego lifting has the potential for injury, deadlifts just happen to be most people's heaviest exercise so the limits are pushed more often.
Herniated L4/L5, bulged S1 from a work injury in 2016. Out of work 2 years. Got into the worst shape of my life. Started lifting 2 years ago and pulled 5 plates last week. No more back pain 😊
100% perfect point. It's not the lift, it's doing the lift with poor form, too much weight/ego, not enough groundwork, etc. But... "Not going to the gym is going to guarantee injuries going down the track." I think Mitch here means not doing some kind of resistance work with an eye towards function and resilience will guarantee injury. Plenty of people out there who don't do the whole gym thing are strong and injury free.
I injured my back doing construction digging holes when I was 18. Lived in pain for almost 10yrs. Wasn't able to sleep much more than 4hrs at a time because my back would be on fire. Got lucky with an awesome chiropractor, didn't know how awesome he was until he retired and I went through a bunch of chiropractors after. Was tired of my constant back pain. Heard Louie Simmons talk about good mornings and gave them a try. I practiced with a pvc pipe for like 2 weeks, watched multiple videos from multiple sources on ques and technique before touching an empty bar. Once I felt comfortable got under a bar. Over about a year I got up to 285lbs for 10, was scared to go under 10's. Went from barely able to get out of bed and overweight to pain free in a few months. Best decision I ever made. Our bodies are incredible self healing machines. Faced the same issue a few years ago when I tore 2 stabilizer muscles in my shoulder. I did everything I could to rehab it since I didn't have insurance. Finally 3 yrs later have insurance and PT fixed me right up. Went from barely able to lift 10lbs over my head a year ago to Overhead pressing 145lbs for 5 last week.
Deadlifts changed my life exponentially. My quality of life skyrocketed. My everyday life is so much better. Reward is very much worth it. Just dont ego lift and make sure youre using strick form and the benefit is heavenly.
I think for the hinge the trap bar is a much safer alternative for most lifters.
I would disagree, mostly because safety of a lift outside of equipment itself is a matter almost entirely of volume. Further, lacking a physical cue like dragging the bar along the shins means trap bar lifts tend to vary far more which is loading unprepared tissues and causing lower stimulus to the intended tissues. What folks mean is because a trap bar brings the weight in slightly closer, the amount of weight deadlifted may increase, and done at the same weight this is "safer" than conventional... like doing incline press weight for flat bench.
5:50 the trophy on the left gained consciousness and ascended to heaven
Haha, brilliant spot
I have chronic low back pain from a car accident related injury. Deadlifts for me have been life changing. Barbell hinging movements in general have strengthened my body so much and have taken me from someone who was basically made of glass to someone who can train combat sports with confidence. I can take hits and falls and yes I still have to be smart about it but the point is that heavy hinging movements gave me my life back.
Be smart. Use good form. Don’t push past what you’re capable of. But if you slowly look to gradually increase your capabilities you will be amazed at how much progress you can make.
Replace with RDL. All the benefits, alot less risk, better for hypertrophy.
Thanks for being such a great ambassador of your sport. I remember having had pain in the back, neck and forearms from working in front of a computer all day long at 40 years old -- this was in 2012. When I started lifting -- and deadlifting -- in 2013, those problems vanished within a few months. I was still working long hours in front of that same computer screen, but my body became a lot sturdier and could handle that stressor no problem.
I went from nearly chronic back pain in 2012 to entering a car deadlift in 2016 and achieving double-digit reps. Deadlifting is fun!
The points of supporting Oberst statement :
Most of people who go to the gym have very little knowledge about the deadlift technique. And they still do it, specially youngsters while making phone pics for their friends to show how many plates they can lift.
Big toll on central nervus system - it takes at few days to recover from deadlift session.
High blood pressure - bloody noses, ect.
And yes, a lot of those points can be solved with correct coaching, skipping ego lifting, ect.
Thank you for the videos Mitch, im 41, weigh 83kgs and your videos helped me finally achieve the 1000lb challenge a few weeks back, in particular progression with the deadlift. Many thanks for your help and love watching you compete
I have injured my back (same location) on two different occasions:
1. First or second time sumo deadlifting, went a bit too heavy and didn't have good form.
2. About two and a half years later, doing squats with moderately heavy weight (like 70-80% of max). I probably had butt wink as I tended to go ATA, or at least well below parallel.
However insofar as I am aware, I never injured myself doing conventional deadlifts. However, they may have contributed to the injury incident(s) as at the time of the second injury I was doing more deadlift volume than I ever had before (I wanted to up my deadlift max) and outside of that I had been sitting every day for 10+ hours either working or doing my school work for the previous 7 years, which I think contributed to my disc being prone to a bulge.
I feel like 1 thing that doesn't get mentioned enough for people not competing is just to use straps. Mix grip which is often the solution for lack of grip strength greatly increases the risk of bicep injury.
For reference I'm a Chiropractor and personal trainer. Here's my 2 cents.
I’ve consistently experienced back pain aggravation with deadlifts despite adjusting load, technique, frequency, and form. After years of trial and error, I found that switching to exercises like lunges, hip thrusts, and Bulgarian split squats (hip hinge "ish") not only reduced the recurrence of my back pain but actually relieved it. From my experience treating patients, 8 or 9 out of 10 injuries I see that come from the gym are related to deadlifts-not because deadlifts are inherently bad, but because they are IMO a higher-risk exercise and may not suit every individual (even with proper technique).
When it comes to managing back pain, I’d also like to note that for acute low back pain, exercise is NOT superior to standard care and could potentially cause harm.
For chronic pain, however, exercise is likely the most beneficial thing you can do, but not necessarily for reasons most people assume. Research consistently indicates that it’s not the improvements in fitness metrics like strength, range of motion, or muscular endurance that eases chronic back pain, but rather the neurological adaptations that result from performing pain-free movements.
That’s why, in my opinion, if an exercise consistently causes pain, it’s best to avoid it; if it doesn’t, do more of it.
He might of been referring to heavy dead lifts?
Yet, the amount of guys at the gym with back issues from their deadlifting phase is real. We all use terrible form. It happens when we are tired or pushing ourselves. We all make mistakes. I went in an ambulance to hospital with deadlift injury. Luckily I hadn’t done any damage and am one of the few guys at the gym at 52 that has a perfect back. I have never hurt myself doing hyperextensions.
Guess they should have used better technique
Whenever people say deadlifting is dangerous or bad for your back, I always refer to a line I heard like 8 years ago.
Deadlifts can hurt people's backs, but if more people did deadlifts, there would be fewer hurt backs.
I don't remember where I read it or who it was from, but I've found it really helps people understand the importance of the deadlift just for everyday life.
Best advice is to do the lifts you want to do (and learn to do them the proper way)! I hear a lot of trash talk about benching, for instance, but It's my passion, so that's what I'm going to do. Great video as always!
Have always loved the deadlift, but Oberst is correct.. Broke my articular lip in my hip-socket because of sumo-deadlift. Ended up having to get a complete hip-replacement at age 31.. I know this is an edge case but just be aware that you have to be careful. My form was perfect.. The doctors had seen it a couple of times before. This would properly not have happened if I was doing regular. My leg-training is not, and will never be the same again... BE CAREFUL!
Mitch you are never gonna run out of content if you are pulling up dumb clips from a Rogan podcast to get mad at.
😂😂😂
Depends on the guest the dr Rhonda Patrick episodes literally change my life for the better.
Nah, Rob is right. For non pro athletes dead lifting is completely slippage and could cause more damage then progress. Rob is correct in that.
I’m 23 and have had left low back pain since 18. I’ve tried so many different interventions like PRP, steroid injections, nerve ablation, PT, and eventually got an SI joint fusion, which now I completely regret because I have less capacity for activity and it hurts more than before. I used to be able to bike and walk quite a bit, but now if I bike 10-15 minutes it flares up and is irritated for hours. Before surgery I tried to use deadlifts and other hinge patterns but lifting in general would always make it hurt more after and the next day. The bird dog doesn’t feel good for me, same as side planks. I’ve done so many stabilizing exercise it’s insane. My issue is just not knowing if movement actually helps. And if it does, how to SLOWLY progress hinge movements to eventually maybe deadlift. Cause I’ve started super light and added 5 lbs each week and that still caught up to me where the pain prevented me from adding weight despite it being like 85 lbs
RDLs and back extensions are fine if you can't or won't deadlift, with glute bridges and some adductor/abductor work, you got a nice lower back/spinal mobility PT session. superior unless you're trying to lift a lot. not bad. just not ideal for most people.
I had terrible back issues in my late teen years. Deadlifting basically cured me. I almost never have back pain anymore and I'm 40. As long as you're doing it correctly, it's an incredible exercise.
i watched that episode of JRE with Obe when it came out ... i think you're taking him out of context here. you would have to give what the conversation was about and show that he gave his own qualifying information with it; he didn't just say "don't deadlift".
I threw my back out at the beginning of 2021, and ended up having incredible low back pain, to where I could barely walk. I've always suffered from low back pain, but this injury caused me to become sedentary and I ended up gaining a lot of weight. I was diagnosed with degenerative disc disease between L1 and S5. Went to chiropractors, had injection surgeries between those discs, and was on track from my Dr. to have surgery to fuse the vertebrae. I said hell naw to that, and started to go back to the gym a year and a half ago, focusing on core and back strengthening exercises, cardio, and general strength training. Once I was comfortable, I started doing deadlifts, and my back pain started to melt away. I can now do 225x5, and while that's not a lot, it's a huge improvement from not being able to walk/function or play with my daughter to now running half marathons and living with ZERO pain for the first time in years. Deadlifts may have very well saved my life.
Love your content Mitch! Keep it goin!!
"There is no reason to be alive if you cannot do deadlift"...
I haven't been able to or wanted to do deadlifts in over 10 years after a jujitsu injury. I've been doing yoga since which has completely changed my life for the better. It's personal experience.
Equally dumb extreme.
Great quote!
heavy dead lifts are risky i agree with oberst. so easy to tweak something
Its good advice, many people trying to weight bigger and bigger weight on deadlift and then its dengerous excercise
Don’t disrespect Oberst. He is the King of the Tactical Zero.
What's the tactical zero ? Asking for a friend
Tactical what now?
He means iq nause brother!👌💪🤝🇬🇧🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦@SaltandDragons
The most known strongman to win nothing 😅
I disagree. I dont deadlift anymore. why? what muscle is it targeting? All of them? The fatigue is really high - what does the lift target glutes, hamstrings, back?. It is hard to fit into a routine. Because it targets every, and nothing at the same time.
I never deadlift, I do below the knee rack pulls.
He is right, deadlift is waste of time for most people. Pretty much zero actual athletes are doing it. Some MMA fighters do hex bar deadlift, which is far more functional, however, not needed at all. Deadlifted for 10 years, repped 505 for 10+ reps at 200 lbs, stopped deadlifting, and NOTHING about my physique changed to the worse, actually i just grew thicker and wider thanks to rowing and doing more back exercises. But sure, do it if you like it. No exercise is a must do exercise.
Why would it? Clearly the deadlifts worked... lol
Recently I developed a bad anterior pelvic tilt from not training my posterior chain correctly. I realized that was the issue when the back pain got so severe that I was desperately trying to find a corrective exercise and randomly decided to pick up a deadlift bar someone left lightly loaded - one set caused instant relief. I hadn't deadlifted in about 4.5 years, but I remembered the form and did them persistently for a few weeks until I could identify some replacement exercises to use with my squats instead, since that's the movement I prefer, and never felt like I was at risk of injury because it was literally correcting an injury I'd given myself. You don't have to do deadlifts specifically if you don't want to, but if you don't train the muscles that lift targets while consistently training the crap out of the antagonist muscle groups, then you're going to pay for it.
I dunno, I’m not a professional, I am only DL’ing 120 lbs (41 year old female, on the StrongLifts 5x5 program started in late September) and I get excited for deadlift days! I was an athlete in HS (field hockey and lacrosse) so lifting and form aren’t foreign to me, but it’s been years since I DL’ed, squatted, rowed, or OHP’ed with a loaded barbell and I gotta say, I love it!!! 🤷🏻♀️
That's great! Don't let any of those juiced dudes persuade you otherwise. Deadlifting is fine. I don't know your physique but you'll be lifting 225 for sure 💪🏻 females.
@ thank you! I’m 5’4 and actively losing weight (went Carnivore on 1/20/24, and have lost 113 lbs since, so now I’m working on building muscle). My goal is to DL 350 by this time next year.
@@HeidiWillToWin 🤯 that's insane. Huge respect 💪🏻. Focus on the health benefits, secondarily get effin strong. Whatever you end up with, it was a mighty undertaking.
@ thank you for the vote of confidence!! 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻😊
Deadlift dose not convert to any other sport
I had lower back pain from about middle school on to my freshman year in college, and general back soreness for years after that. Two things that made a drastic improvement: Increasing flexibility (got me from being essentially bed ridden for a few days a year when my back was out) and deadlifts. Since I started routinely deadlifting, I've had zero chronic back issues.
The only relapse I had was on me. Treated a light lift without respect, and got hurt.
I’ve always said that the deadlift is arguably the best exercise for anyone looking to maximise growth from the gym, I think what oburst said was ridiculous, I’m thankful that we have someone like yourself to comment on this who actually has the years of educational and academic training behind him