Bi & Trans History: The Invasion of Lesbianville, Massachusetts
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- In the 1980s pride was still "Lesbian and Gay Pride". What happened in this small city to bring in the bisexuals and trans people?
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Sources:
Boston Bisexual Women’s Network Newsletter Vol 8 No 2, 1990
Bisexual Politics: Theories, Queries, and Visions, edited by Naomi Tucker, 1995
Bisexual Spaces: A Geography of Sexuality and Gender by Clare Hemmings, 2002
Bisexual Women in the Twenty-first Century, edited by Dawn Atkins, 2003
Gay Community News, February to June 1990
“Lesbianville, USA?” by Julia Penelope, Off Our Backs
Vol. 23, No. 9, October 1993
"Identity/Crisis" by Mustang Sally, TransSisters: the Journal of Transsexual Feminism #5 Summer 1994
"The Bisexual Revolution: Closet Cases or the Vanguard of the Movement?" by Carrie Wofford, Outweek #84, 1991
Stone, Sharon Dale. “Bisexual Women and the ‘Threat’ to Lesbian Space: Or What If All the Lesbians Leave?” Frontiers: A Journal of Women Studies, vol. 16, no. 1, 1996
Sylvia River's "Y'all Better Quiet Down" Speech: • L020A Sylvia Rivera, “...
To all the bisexuals who don't feel "gay enough" to check out gay culture-- most LGBT events and groups aren't carding at the door. It's vulnerable sometimes but you aren't the first person who's felt insecure about their ties to gay culture. You won't be the last. You have things to add to The Community, from your friendship to your activism to your party hosting skills.
Cough chocolate tasting skills cough.
v
thank you
Ummm also our input and thoughts
But all the events are too interesting!
I want more lemon tea and Trivial Pursuit kind of gay.
I was living in Northampton while this was going on. I was a student, but a lot of what happened in the town carried over to the campus. Whenever I hear about an American TERF, I wonder if it was someone I knew at school. I suspect a lot of people who were irrationally terrified of bisexuals in their teens and twenties are now irrationally terrified of trans people in their forties and fifties.
Absolutely!
I was about to say certainly an interesting hypothesis but then realised that that might sound like might be disagreeing with you so I'm just going to say agreed.
Agreed
I went to school in the pioneer valley (only graduated 2 years ago) and it's a little trippy: Noho (and Amherst by association) are simultaneously embarrassed and proud of their TERF roots. There's been a push to be more trans inclusionary but it's all very surface-level PR stuff, and there's a lot of glorification of the good ol' days and the TERF aesthetic (???) is everywhere here--as are their most insidious ideologies, hiding right beneath the surface.
(also did everybody wear overalls in the 90s too??? not sure where all these overalls are coming from)
@@samirateixeira6954 That's interesting. The last time I was there was 1995 and I've wondered if things have changed. A friend's daughter is going to school there now, and she is very openly bisexual and doesn't seem to be encountering any of gatekeeping that I did. But it's hard to know from one person's experience how things are more generally.
Haha... I don't remember seeing a lot of overalls, but maybe I wasn't paying attention. The "grunge" look was popular at the time, but most students just wore sweatshirts and jeans. There was definitely a "uniform" that Noho lesbians wore, though. This consisted of a button down oxford shirt, men's style jeans, black lace up men's style shoes, and a short, men's style haircut. Expressions of femininity were looked down as supporting the patriarchy, and women who presented more traditionally feminine were treated like traitors who were making all women look bad.
Maybe this sounds worse than it actually was. There were a lot of pretty cool and openminded people there, too. But there was this current of exclusion and having to be the "right' kind of LGBTQ person that I could feel around me.
@@samirateixeira6954 south shore bi guy here, south of Boston has become very bi and pan we have a growing community down here, especially bi men
11:50 that quote is classic biphobia - "For many of us, our lesbianism is a way of life, not just something we do in bed". It's the same attacks used against gay and lesbian people by homophobes, by making it all about the sex and making bisexuality about the things they do not who they are. These same lesbians would be horrified at people saying the same thing to them - that it's a preference, that they can easily date men in order to avoid homophobia.
Reminds me of when I introduced my mom to my girlfriend, and when I mentioned it being awkward to tell the rest of the family, I was told "It's nobody's business what you do in the bedroom". Not sure if it was just because she is my girlfriend or if it's because I have a boyfriend too. Either way, I don't appreciate my relationship being reduced to just being sexual.
To be fair, if you're bi you _can_ choose who to date, but it won't help who you are interested in.
ANYONE can choose to be in the closet and date heterosexually.
@@jazzpear8877 Yes this is true.
@@jazzpear8877 yeah no, bisexuals can be in happy fulfilling heterosexual relationships but homosexuals can't.
"Bisexuality erases lesbians" Time is a flat circle
Time is a cold soup
@@WhichDoctor1 time is running outt
Time isn’t holding up
@@justheretolikeandcomment5116 Time isn't after us
@@WhichDoctor1 is time about lesbians or supporters
I'm really vibing to what Ben Power said. Lesbian separatism doesn't just target men - you hit on bisexual women and trans women as entry points for "male violence" but it literally is anyone who gets too close to perceived patriarchy, including lesbians who practice the "patriarchal parody" of BDSM, lesbians who support bi and trans women, lesbians who are gender subversive... I've even heard some lesbian separatists say you shouldn't even be friends with men. it gets to the point where you don't "count" as a lesbian unless you are also a separatist. Everyone else is a traitor. I don't understand why some lesbians have gotten to that point.
Probably years of being treated like crap and having to deal with misogyny? Is it really that hard to understand?
@@petalchild I can understand why lesbian separatism exists, but I think the hard part to understand is the fact that these people who have been treated like crap for years and have had to deal with with misogyny would turn around and be misoginistic themselves
@@petalchild so that gives them license to treat bi and trans women like crap?
@@kjarakravik4837 this is unfortunately kind of a common thing, oppressed people often turn on a less powerful person to oppress as a way to "regain power" psychologically. its why victims of child abuse sometimes become abusers themselves. this isn't to say that all ppl who suffer oppression/abuse become oppressors, but there is often a cycle in oppressed communities where the abuse and hurt starts circulating withing the community because of these unresolved psychological issues
Every exclusionary group eventually becomes a suicide cult, because in the end no one is pure enough and your power base shrinks and shrinks until you are left alone in your bunker. Untainted by the degeneracy of the traitors that don’t really understand why you have to exclude the unpure.
I'm 48 and I'm a lesbian. Thank you for posting this. It brings back a lot of memories of university and the endless debates my liberal arts sisters would have while I was running around trying to get laid.
i honestly feel like things aren't that much better now. at the first pride i attended, i saw a group of women marching in the parade with a large banner declaring that "real" lesbians have vaginas. the next year i realized i was bi and realized that a lot of gays and lesbians idea of "accepting" bi people is literarily, in their own words, "i'm fine with you being bi so long as you never talk about opposite attraction in front of me as anything other than 'jokingly' negative."
i don't think i'll ever feel like a part of any larger community. not when my existence is just as likely (if not more likely) to be met with hostility or mockery as from straight people.
I'm ace, not gay, but I you won't get any hostility from me. Granted; I don't feel the strongest connection to much of a larger community, either.
Sorry the people in your area give off that vibe and make you feel unwelcome.
even other bi people can be weird. Had one say I didn't talk enough about men for them. People can't just let people be themselves.
@@Toast-un2gd i had to click through to see what this was even in response to. you're seriously going through years old youtube comments to post snide little replies? are you okay?? i was in a pretty bad place when i made that comment two years ago, but i'm doing a lot better and have found a great community of people who love me for who i am. i hope you're able to feel better soon too.
I'm intersex, nonbinary, and queer. I don't feel like I'm part of the community, either.
I wish those of us who feel as though we don't belong could find community and comfort with each other in real life.
No hostility here. Just love. 💜
@@RexytheRexy Same. I realized I was bi around 5-6 years ago and was like, "Omg, I have this whole community now!"
Pretty quickly realized that community didn't want me. I'm in a relationship with a man and that makes me "straight-passing" (yay? just what I want??? except no??????) and therefore entirely unaffected by bigotry.
Huh it's kinda ironic that I'm seeing this video in the day where a black bisexual man in a reality show was so attacked for kissing an out gay man in a party (attacked by other lgbt people no less!!!) that he left the show
We're really having the very same arguments over and over and over ain't us
BBB?
LMAO WHAT THE FUFK??????
@@mophead_xu so there was this guy in BBB (Brazillian version of big brother) called Lucas and he was already being posecuted inside the house because people found him annoying and thus started this huge bullying spree against him. People leaving the kitchen when he goes to eat, telling him to shut up, unpromptedly saying that he was violent and would attack them with knifes when all he did in the house was be a young dude who talks a bit loud sometimes. Meanwhile, this other guy, an openly gay man called Gil, was getting friendly with him and they were vibing and flirting all the time because the big bullying group also didn't care much for Gil, so they bonded. Then in a Saturday party, they MADE OUT SO HARD. The first man/man kiss in the show's history. Top10 anime kisses, it was great. Lucas followed this kiss with coming out as bisexual not only for the house but also for his family and the entire country because he was not out yet because he has a pretty conservative family? So it was a very emotional moment for him. It was of course completely ruined by the gang that was bullying him in the first place because they decided that he was faking it for the show, including a moment where the out lesbian psychologist known for her long rants about respecting the LGBT community basically said to him that "you can't use serious topics to self promote like that, you're diminishing the struggle" because obviously the only reason to kiss a dude he was vibing with for weeks and also come out to the whole ass country is GAME STRATEGY. Two other out bisexual women (Karol Conká and Pocah) also said the same both to him and to the rest of the house for the entire night because "why didn't he tell us he was bi before? Sounds kinda fishy". They harrassed him so hard that he willingly left the show in the next morning and all of the people involved in the bullying were voted out with record rejection.
@@silveirona holy shit. That's fucking horrible. I really hope that he's doing okay after that, because god, imagine being bullied publicly for coming out?? This is why I don't want to be out 🙃 gee I wonder why he wasn't open about his sexuality before?? Fucking hell.
could it be a case of a modern normalized argument to put down bisexuals? cuz i see this a lot honestly. like an example i saw other bisexuals discuss recently was the bullying n harassment bisexual artist rita ora got from a big group of people for making a song abt wanting to kiss girls.. so much so that lesbian singer hayley kiyoko wrote a "statement" and called it horrible things claiming it was disrespectful n gross n faking the experience... she ended up having to APOLOGIZE for making a song abt kissing woman as a bisexual woman (even weirder considering how hayley kiyoko made so so many songs abt kissing women and a lot of tem paint bi women as unfaithful women who need to make up their mind)... is this a thing we should tak abt or am i drawing weird conclusions?
...I’m a lesbian that was born in North Hampton (moved a couple months after). I had no clue how important to LGBTQ history that town was
As a bi woman married to a trans woman, I found this video very informative.
I wish I was this close with my roommate
Jk *finger guns*
Thank you for making this video. Everyone in the community needs to learn our history.
The first time I read about lesbian separatism I did get the point of it. But it also struck me as an essentialist view of gender, and not only do I not want to accept any gender essentialism because it would mean that feminism is a lost battle (or that it can only be won through separatism), but also... gender essentialism is not real, because there are so many people who subvert the essentialist categories of gender. By their very existence, the people who are currently under the umbrella of LGBTQ+ people all subvert, in one way or another, the cis/heterosexual categories of gender.
Hard agree! Political lesbianism relies on the uncritical acceptance of the gender binary which is itself inherently sexist! Rather than patriarchal systems & gender roles like toxic mascuinity being the sources of oppression, men (or for TERFs, people who have penises) are seen as the sources of evil and oppression just by virtue of the fact that they exist and happen to have a penis... because "boys will be boys"! Ironically, the more that TERFs and lesbian separatists think they are liberated, the more they're actually chaning themselves to those same old toxic false binaries that created queer oppression and misogyny in the first place. It it really boils my piss.
i always thought that's why lgbtq exists as a group, because its people who subvert the categories of gender (which is why other forms of sexual preferences arent usually included)
As a white male cishet ally I'd like to thank you for being here! I have said and done sooo many well meaning yet problematic things out of sheer ignorance (and sadly, probably still do) and content like yours has helped to clarify things that are difficult to find clarification on. To all my brothers, sisters and variations thereupon, not everyone who puts their foot in their mouth is an as$clown, we may be well meaning but misinformed. I like to apologize for all the mistakes I have and will make on my journey. May the worst of your futures be the best of your pasts! Liked and subbed! Thanks again!!!
I appreciate that you're trying
@@shadowwolflycan6176 Thank you, that brings me joy!
Ugh, Twitter and Tumblr are so toxic it's unbelievable :(
Don't apologize for making progress. You can make up for past mistakes by being better today. No one should shame you for growing.
Good for you! I love to see a white male cishet ally- many people only care about an issue if it affects them, & there IS stuff you just don't notice, like I'm also white & cis so I need people who aren't to point some things out to me, so I'm not disrespectful out of ignorance. I've made mistakes & been wrong about stuff, & I'm sorry I have, but I correct myself & just try to be a decent, respectful human being- like, that shouldn't be a novel concept!
As someone who is a Lesbian TransWoman....it's scary to see how much of this is STILL going on today.
Like a Lesbian saying I was PERFECT on a Dating App, until finding out I was a TransWoman. Being told I couldn't be a woman, despite being Trans*, and even getting a Gender Change.
I'm glad that these have changed...BUT in many ways there's STILL many of these Exlcusive Communities.
Fuck it's even carried over into Trans* Communities, to further exclude each other.
In my social circles we're ALL inclusive of different Genders & Sexualities
This is the first video from this channel recommended to me by The Almighty Algorithm, and it's soooo good. I've watched several of your videos since watching this one, and this is definitely the bisexual RUclips content I've been wanting for years. Videos from adolescents on "10 Misconceptions About Bisexuals" are well and good, but eventually one wants more. And this is that MORE. I'm old, but I only began coming to terms with being bi a few years ago. Finding resources that dig deep into what being bi is about has been difficult. But your long list of videos looks like a feast to me, and I'm grateful for it. And you're really funny!
Thanks so much, glad to have you along!
Another “Bi 2.0” type thing is a podcast called Two Bi Guys which also really gets its teeth into the meatiness of bisexuality, rather than just “Bi 1.0” stuff like myth-busting.
“Radical lesbians and lesbian separatists-which I guess counts as two separate groups...” I assume the separatists wanted it that way.
I helped archive a lot of photographs and their negatives of Northampton’s pride parade from the 70s-90s last year! A woman donated them for local history purposes and she was very interesting to talk to. I don’t think they’re available online but they’re definitely scanned and inputted in our library’s computers if anyone is interested through Forbes Library by email. Bisexuals were present pretty early on but you’re right about the lack of overt trans presence-I think the closest thing I remember was a Spice Girls drag show in 2001. Interestingly, the small town thing carries over, and in one of the earliest photos (from the 70s!) there were churches present in support. I didn’t know about of this drama though, which goes to show how much I missed being stuck in a library. This was really fascinating and thanks for doing all the work in this-you should reach out to the archives if you ever want!
Awesome video! Very educational, I always worry about being "gay enough" for LGBT spaces as a bi woman.
Same here as a masc bi man, I’m worried everyone sees me as “the straight guy” at first. Sometimes I feel like an imposter
@ruliak @Jim D you are both valid and welcome and i wish you all the best!! 💞💞💞💞💞💞💞
Honestly with discussions like these I have to wonder why some lesbians in particular (I say as a lesbian myself) seem to be vehemently against having any prolixity to anything even remotely connected to men, but you don’t really see the same type of behaviour from gay men towards bi men, as far as i know. this might have to do with the fact that bi men are usually seen as “basically gay” while bi women are usually seen as “basically straight but wanting to be extra”, but still interesting observation.
that might have to do with the fact that someone's attraction to men is seen as the most important thing about them, lol. although i would say that some gay men do express similar, almost separatist views - i've mostly seen it used transphobically, but i've seen bi men saying that they have been excluded from gay male spaces for this reason too.
I absolutely LOVE your LGBTQ+ history videos! They are so educational and interesting! I'm a bisexual woman who was born in the mid 90's, so it's really amazing to be able to learn all of the important things you teach through these videos. Keep them coming! :)
This comment sums up my feelings as well! I'm so grateful for these accessible and entertaining little history lessons!
Same, only I was born in the early 90s.
“Activist Elana Dykewomon said in her speech ‘Woman-Born-Woman-Loving-Woman - A Real Identity….” I can’t believe this is a real sentence from an actual periodical
I refuse to believe this isn't out of the onion.
Oh Elena Dykewoman makes every sentence she's in very interesting! She crops up a lot!
maybe we should accept that other people's identities do not, and never will, erase our own
i agree with this in that bisexuality does not erase lesbians or gay men but there are certainly some cases where an identity could erase another
@@sibeliusan such as?
hi I'm a possibly nonbinary bisexual who just discovered your channel (through your spiderman video somehow?), and I love it. just wanted to say thank you for your wonderful content, you are appreciated
As a bi ace person who realized my asexuality before my bisexuality, it always STUNS me how much old rhetoric trying to exclude bisexuals is echoed/reproduced in ace exclusionist rhetoric.
Fellow ace; I noticed the recycled exclusionary reasons, too! XD
YES! I’m bi and ace as well and the same exact arguments used against bi people is replicated against aces and aros and mspecs. The simple fact is, gender or sexuality policing is not ok! It has always harmed us and replicating that oppression onto other queer or trans people is harmful. There’s no *one* correct way to be queer or trans, were all valid in our unique experiences!
I mean,aren't all exclusionists the same?
Mostly this is because it quite literally all comes from the same source, the Lesbian Sepratist movement, the forced changing of definitions and propaganda to split up the community. These women would go on to found the TERF movement, and basically all modern exclusionist rhetoric has it's origins there. Which is where "Acephobia is TERF rhetoric" comes from and why they really want to push the idea that Queer is a slur (because it's radically inclusive).
The issue is because of the AIDS epidemic we lost so many of our Queer elders that a lot of kids don't know their history, so they go on sites like Tumblr which is filled with TERFs pouring poison in their ear, and that's how I get 14 year olds screaming at me vitriol about how my very existence is a crime against the community.
Aro-Ace here. Yep. Same BS, different day. This is why I consider Bi folks of all stripes to be Aces' most natural allies. They tend to get flak from all sides in a similar way.
"Northampton is a small city, yet EXTREMELY lesbian"
As someone who is currently watching this from Noho, you're right.
Just because you're a victim doesn't mean you can't become a perpetrator.
This 💯
It's amazing how much the bisexual exclusionary arguments of old tracks to the same talking point that "drop the T" people make. Well to be honest quite a few would argue for just LG as soon as the first drop happened and there are of course still modern day lesbian separatist
every time I bring up the word “monosexual” to describe people who don’t experience biphobia, I get a LOT of shit... would love to see a video on that topic!! 💖💜💙
mood, literally everyone screams 'JUST SAY NON BISEXUAL' like no, we bi ppl are allowed a word to describe things
lots of lesbians don’t like the word monosexual being used because in the context of ‘monosexual privilege’, it simply does not exist.
@@mmanyhandss except, it does - you should read the epistemic contract of bisexual erasure by dr kenji yoshino
@@_blank-_ here they are, right on schedule
@@_blank-_ i'll ask my girlfriend, one sec
I’m so invested in this hypothetical bisexual woman with a polycule of 20 men that invade lesbian book clubs and mansplain the books. Living the dream!
I’m impressed by this hypothetical bi woman’s time management skills. With a polycule of twenty other people her Google calendar must be packed!
@@teddy-1965 Maybe it's a commune-with-benefits type situation, where it's basically roommates with a combined budget.
Thank you so much for this video. I've watched a number of your videos on bi history now, and I cannot say how much I appreciate you making these videos. As a bisexual woman, it makes me feel less alone and like I have a collective history and am part of something.
This channel is criminally underrated. The algorithm pointed me here, and I subbed
i love your lgbt+ history videos - even though I'm from Poland where we still seem to be in the 70s kind of mindset in some aspects (for example, the TERFism wasn't really popular here before 2020 - i remember being at a queer student group meeting in 2019 and wondering whether we should organise a lecture about TERFs but I decided that it could be dangerous to invite these ideas to Poland, even if we'd show them in negative light, in fear someone might feel inspired - well, 2020 did it for us, some major "feminists" turned out to be TERFs after people started voicing concerns about calling anti abortion ban protests "women's protests", thus excluding anyone that can get preganant and isn't a woman) - now that I'm talking about it I realize that I myself am a part of history that will probably be talked about in the future, maybe in videos just like yours, haha!
That being said, I also wish that non-british and non-US LGBT+ history and reality was talked about more often - I realise that the language barrier is huge but as someone said, none of us can be equal if we aren't all equal. :D I envy British and American people who have so many resources and international recognition when it comes to LGBT+ history!
lol sorry i got carried off - i wanted to say that i love your LGBT+ history videos because even though it's not really my history, it's interesting to see that those issues are treated similarly even in different countries and in different times!! there's still so much infighting and stupidity even though there are years and kilometers between us hahaa
Good luck!!! I often think about LGBTQ efforts in Poland and other places. I do what I can to consider people internationally. You inspire me to do the best I can here!
@@alias5305 haha, thanks!
This video honestly does an excellent job at deconstructing the layers of psychology underpinning lgbt-phobes and ppl who express internalized lgbt-phobia!!! speaking as someone who used to be involved in.... acecourse on tumblr, i find the part where you reflect on how the separatists viewed transgender and bisexual participants... eerily familiar.
This video is a must-watch for any burgeoning lgbt+ person! history repeats itself unless we know how to move on- and that requires reflection
As a bi-male, it feels kinda good to hear this story and these takes. It comes with a certain amount of baggage, and I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling it.
I really enjoy these and your dry, well targeted sarcasm.
Cheers lass.
I really appreciate that you humanise both sides and treat the issue with the nuance and complexity it deserves. Your videos are fantastic!!
I dunno why hearing the beginning feels parallel to what is happening now with non binary people
this is fascinating! i live in mass and had never heard of this conflict anywhere, even online. I know that there were conflicts between lesbian separatists and the rest of the lgbt community but it’s super interesting to see a concrete example of how that actually manifested.
Your video are amazing, it gave me context to how I feel in lgbt spaces being a pansexual. I feel like I shouldn’t be there at time my girlfriend makes me feel that way. Even thought I’m dating a woman she really others me to the point where she tells me I can’t have opinions on it as “I like men”. Which I feel invalids my experiences and identity lots.
That sounds so hurtful, I hope you can find more accepting people
That's horrible you shouldn't be treated like that. I'm so sorry, I hope the community realizes how harmful it is and you're able to feel accepted.
It does invalidate your identity and voice. And it's...really weird honestly, since you're literally dating her, a woman, unless she somehow forgot that lol.
Like: so she's okay with dating you, but she's not okay with hearing your experience, so she wants to kinda let herself be the only one who's "allowed" to have an opinion on something that definitely affects both of you? Sorry, but that's just kind of a shitty way to treat someone you're supposed to care for.
Yeah your girlfriend has some stuff to work through. I think it's important to be understanding to her , but do not let that mean your feelings are pushed aside .
Bro break up with her, she's not worth your time.
The term “lesbian fortress” is the best combination of two words I’ve ever heard
I was in my late-teens/early-twenties when all this was going down, and have always had a self-righteous streak about me. A tiny, scared part of me has wondered whether I'd've been among the separatists had I been born cis. Because I understand how they come to their horribly wrong conclusions.
If you're scared that you'd be like them, then chances are you probably would never be, even if you had been born cis.
Terfs go way back, it seems. PS. love the 80's vibe to the vid
To be fair ‘you transes are stealing our lesbians’ is the next logical step after getting put on blast trying to be a lesbian separatist. ‘They won’t defend these trans men’ is probably their line of thinking. Stop being so myopic ladies your hatred is dragging everyone down.
0:23 omg what?! I literally saw some older lesbians on Twitter this morning talking about being from or formally living in/near that area... that makes so much sense somehow now...
I am almost 30 and only now learning this history as it was always forbidden. Being bi was very much associated with being broken in the eyes of my family. Your videos are, well I don't have words yet. Thank you. (Also omg I really love your sense of fashion. Sorry, not really the point here, but it's really stunning.)
This is iconic can't wait to watch your channel grow.
In the early 1990s, I was a facilitator of a bi support group in our city's Lesbian and Gay Community Center. Several of us who were members of the center and the bi group brought up our desire to have the B added to the center's name, and we called for a vote of the members of the center. Eventually, we were successful, and eventually, the center became LGBT.
I'm not bi, but asexual, but damn all the points still hit me hard. It's like the vocal minority of people being against bi (and all multigender attracted identities, no matter what the word that makes sense for you is) folk have just passed of their rhetoric to another wave of exclusion when they lost the fight. All the "you don't count because" arguments are just refitted. All the same fears and justifications. oh no, the heteromantic people are just going to bring in the dreaded STRAIGHTS instead of bringing in the dreaded MEN, oh no but you can BLEND IN BETTER IF YOU JUST TRY and therefor are taking the voice of other people, OH NOOOOOO I have to take more than two seconds to relate to the struggle so it isn't a problem. I can't experience aphobia and aphobia has nothing to do with oppression because... Well, follow biphobic reasoning and replace words, you'll get the point.
It just keeps popping up again and again, the same tired rhetoric and the community keeps shutting it down. I hope for the next generations are taught of, and learn from things like this. This kind of logic is hurtful every single time.
Damn, your comment also reminded me of how it's mirrored in enbyphobic rhetoric. "You can hide it, if you don't medically transition you aren't really trans, you're infringing on our space," etc.
@@MissPoplarLeaf It really is the same old fears again and again. I wish we'd stop trying to justify ourselves and just accept there's more than a handful of ways to be trans or queer or experiencing romantic attraction. The people with "default settings" aren't the arbiters of love or gender, and that should be the FINAL sentence and we should ne all about that. Somehow some of us don't learn from our own history well enough to see this.
Yeah as an ace with some ace-centered dysphoria I kinda just hide out of the way tbh.
As a two spirit, trans, bi, MLM, gay, aroace, each of my identities has been invalidated as queer following the logic you described. “You can hide it” “you like men that’s privilege” “you’re a man that’s privilege” “you’re ace you’re not queer” (trans and queer is queer??? What?) and so on. It’s frustrating because I have so much love and compassion for every queer person who uses any term but they don’t have that solidarity for us. I’m glad there are a small amount of trans and queer people who are supportive (almost always BBIMP, autistic or ND or disabled, and have multiple attractions or genders)
@@YourWaywardDestiny exactly. these arguments that were used against trans and queer people are the same ones used against aros, aces, bi people, trans people, enbies and genderfluid ppl etc. there is no *one* way to be queer or trans. All our experiences are different and that is valid!
I live in Northampton currently! It’s not at all like it used to be, thankfully. I’m a cis lesbian but trans folks are omnipresent. Our local bar is just a broadly queer bar and there’s a lot more diversity in terms of gender and orientation that go there. (It’s still extremely white but that’s a separate conversation). It’s a young town barring the older folks in the area employed by the colleges or business owners, so despite its roots, it ultimately trends pretty young ergo much more informed. The colleges are definitely behind the rest of the town. I’d imagine that the remnants of a lot of the lesbians you’re referencing here still exist within the five colleges academia. I attended one of the five colleges from 2013-2017 and I protested at a sister womens college over the school refusing to amend their policy about admitting trans women (they had never been allowed to attend). They eventually walked back on this stance. but they were still barring trans women as recently as then. I’m glad that culture is fading and the embracing of fluidity is celebrated. We also have a very robust furry community that marches in our pride march lol. Anyways, this is apropos of nothing but I always find it interesting to learn more about the place i live and how it contrasts to now!! 😊
And there is still a sign that says “Where the women are strong, just like our coffee” when you pull into the main parking garage downtown.
I have been extremely bisexual since I was a little boy and I still am at age 41. I have feelings both sexual and romantic for more than one gender. It's nice to be acknowledged and counted. Being queer is a gift.
I just discovered your channel and just wanted to say thank you! I am bisexual and honestly don't know much about bisexual history; most likely because of erasure.
Here after being told i don't belong in queer spaces as a bi/queer woman(starting to question bc people make me feel like bi isn't gay enough), and starting off pride being told you can't talk about WLW in a general way under a post talking about lesbian characters 😬👍🏻
This video was informative, and close to what I've been experiencing, in a more tone downed level. Brings me some comfort to know bisexuals have always been pushed out of gay spaces for not being gay enough tbh, i feel less alone.
Your voice is so soft and calming
As a lesbian, this is fascinating and really enlightening. Thank you for making this video!
This happened decades ago and we’re still having this conversations today. I’m so tired.
How did I only now discover your channel ?
You’re pretty cool and clearly put so much effort in your videos
Your narrative style really helps me approach these difficult historical and political topics. You have such a soothing voice for such a frustrating and enraging topic!
I'm so glad I've found your Channel you've educated me so much and helped me come to terms with my own identity.
Great video! Also, pretty sad how long the cycle of nonsensical privilege politics has been going on.... Those newspaper articles sound like tiktoks
The whole point of the privilege web, where everyone has privilege and oppression under the system, is, imo, a way of showing that separating people into these groups makes no sense, and we need to abolish the current system completely.
"Please come to the Unitarian Church" might be the most gay mass thing I've ever heard oh my god
This is a relatively normal, non-radical thing with Unitarian churches.
@@charliekahn4205 It was more of a comment on Massachusetts, a very religious state and one of the few places in the US where Catholicism is the dominant form of Christianity. I grew up in a relatively small town outside of Boston and while we had 1 grocery store that was properly in our town but we had 3 catholic churches and a Unitarian church. MA is also relatively progressive when it comes to LGBT rights so those two things in combination result in a strong LGBT association with Unitarian churches. In fact, I literally used to refer to the Unitarian Church as a "Gay Church" as a kid.
It was really neat to watch your video because I remember the events and am surprised that they are documented here. It was nice to see Helen Harrison's letter. It was lovely to spend time with her as she is so thoughtful and gracious. She took me all the way to the 1993 March on Washington! I also enjoyed going to performances of her band. So thank you for bringing up the nice memories.
I also remember some of the Northampton marches including the lesbian liberation marches. How interesting that people are interested in this history.
It's been 30 years but I feel much as not changed
This is a really fantastic video (as always) and dive into a bit of our history that's sadly still all too relevant today.
another brilliant video, thank you for this! will be sharing with my lesbian friends as i’ve done with your previous videos too. ps i love this hairstyle xx
Me, a bisexual born in 1989: ah, so it was Fate™
As a new subscriber I’m just starting my deep dive through your back catalog and I’m so glad I found this channel! Also I think you may have the best channel name of all time, it’s so good
I'm from Northampton England. It's so weird hearing the town I was born in next to Massachusetts..
I only realized in the last year it so that there was any vitriol among lesbian toward bi women. I couldn't fathom why that could be even when given a little context by others. With this history added it makes so much more sense why there is residual resentment. Thank you for educational content. I'm so happy i stumbled into your content finally! I'm following you now!
this was informative and super interesting, thank u!!
I think it's so cool that you did so much research and really present each side of this issue. This might sound really stupid, but I wasn't 100% sure where you landed on some of the nuances of this super heated debate. I read a lot of opinions I don't agree with, and I personally find it difficult sometimes, it can be draining on my patience as well as my faith in humanity, and I can't imagine what that might have been like for someone so personally invested in these issues and this history. I really appreciate it
So glad to have this in my recommended!! Very interesting and informative video.
Also, unrelated to the subject matter but your voice is very soothing, I could listen to it all day 😅
i am not going to lie-even halfway through this video the parroting of biphobic remarks i’ve heard reiterated decades later has me pausing to gasp aloud. in the age of lgbt, you mostly hear it from OUT of the queer community but to hear it from lesbians themselves was physically painful :/ still a very entertaining narrative, + a HUGE bit of queer american history!
All hail the Algorithm that led me to your channel! Subscribed! Yay!
There's some comments like this directed at asexuals, nowadays, too.
"You can blend in" "Go start your own movement"
lmao. Sometimes people are so dumb. lol.
Asexuals and bisexuals have similar stereotypes
Both don't exist, both are confused, both are actually dragons, etc.
@@CygnusTheSilly Bi-ace alliance. UuU!
@@TheKarret Yes, let's commit world domination together.
@@CygnusTheSilly As a recently realized ace/aro, cannot wait until I'm sufficiently evolved in my identity to turn into a dragon 🐉
@@TheKarret we're either at war or in an alliance, no one quite knows which lol
Whilst I recognise their were small LGBT events in some places LGBT as an international thing didn't happen till the mid nineties.
But the Bi community has been having Trans inclusive since the late 80's. Trans women were going to women only workshops at Bicon 7 the 7th National Bisexual conference in 1989.
Comrade. You're out here doing the good work.
"You are a lesbian"
ehh, not really, some idiots might call me that but I am not
"The year is 1988, the place Northampton,"
ahh, probably england, usually people mean Northampton, England and not my hometown,
"Massachusetts."
O.O
As a random click on a video, that really caught me off guard...
It's really reassuring to hear these accounts that my hometown queer movement has always had brave folks "outside" the "LG" community fighting alongside everyone for our right from the very beginning, even though, currently, as back then, there are those who would seek to draw lines between us. I've always been relatively grateful to have grown up in Northampton, even though my feeling on its reputation as a "gay haven" have become more complicated as time passes. A lot of terf/radfem logic still runs rampant, and the watered down version (with lots of gender essentialisim) of it tends to be the cultural norm, despite it being seen as an open and accepting place. But to hear that the "others" have always been there, fighting, means a lot to me.
Also;
It's hilarious because a lot of people still rely on the newspaper as a grounds for airing out their drama and opinions, time is truly a flat circle.
At least it's a kind of safe waystone of sorts if things get really bad. A stopping point between bases, if you will.
Over 30 years later and the same kind of people are having the same bad faith arguments. Is it ever going to be better?
This is bloody brilliant.
Tight funny informative style with some really cool editing.
Subscribed!
"Our voices have always been part of the choir. The only difference, they can now hear them."
Respect! Thanks so much for this tasty knowledge 🤘
I LOVE your videos!! So glad I searched for commentary on this topic.
Absolutely losing my mind over this. The Discourse TM has not changed in over 30 YEARS, huh?
something that i really would love to hear a trans creator critique is the history of feminist and lesbian separatism, because i think knowing that history could really be a source of insight on how to navigate exclusionism in the contemporary queer community
It’s so weird to see Robyn Oaks in queer history videos. I’ve been getting emails from her from the Boston Bi Women Network for years
12:27 Yay Helen Harrison! Leading the way as always, fond memories my dear Helen.
This was really well done, thank you!
unrelated to the content of this video in any way but i just stumbled onto your channel and idk your energy and your voice are both so soothing 😦 ❤️ amazing job :))
"What if all twenty men in her polycule come to our book club and mansplain the book to everyone????!!!!!"
LOL
hey just letting you know the daily wire/matt walsh is running their ad for their transphobic documentary, council of geeks posted a video of how to stop them from running ads on ur channel if you want them to stop (they ran the ad like 3 times already on this same video)
Thank you for letting me know! They shouldn't pop up again, if I sorted it right. Sorry you had to see that!
@@verilybitchie it's alright! I find it disgusting that they're doing that so I hope you and other creators can evade hateful ads like that
So basically this was one massive tumblr dramabattle that happened IRL before Tumblr was invented
There were TERFs on Tumblr? You'd think they'd have been chased off almost instantly…
@@charliekahn4205 There are a lot of TERFs on tumblr
me, a bi trans guy, watching the beginning of this video: guess I'm double the wrong kind of gay, lol
"You are a lesbian."
Ok.
Not sure I like the boobs...
this flavor of history (and unfortunate present tbh) of the cis lesbian community is why i, as a trans femme non binary person, was literally scared to call myself a lesbian to anyone but myself for years.
"Bissexuals erase lesbians" It's so weird to hear that when I'm on my bissexual aunt and her lesbian partner coach.
Personal coments no one asked for a part I imagine that the bi exclusionary would be a similar fenomenon to TERFS and trans exclusionist in LGBT+ comunities. Now that the comunity became les biphobic they needed another enemy to be the "bad gay" and so got straigth aproval and they choose us.
A piece of history I didn't know! Thank you for this insight♡
"And bask in the glow of a sun large and free enough to shine on us one and all" is such a beautiful quote, damn
“she was met with booing and hissing from the crowd” based let’s keep this energy for TERFs today
My haunted copy of Sarah Schulman's Conflict Is Not Abuse rammed me repeatedly in the back of the head while watching this.
I learn so much from your videos! Thank you for sharing everything you know and have researched!
This video really resonated with me. It reminded me of when I did feminist philosophy in the early 90s. I always identified as queer, even if we didn’t really have the words for it back then, and some of the people in class were always very hostile to “men” invading their spaces. “Men” of course included some of the women who actually welcomed me.