Enjoyed this and last month’s video about the Gazette. Such comprehensive sources on the far east can be hard to come by in the west, and would likely only focus on only a few of the points covered here. These lenses into different civilizations, what they valued, and the demands their culture/customs and rulers impose on each other are nothing short of fascinating, already a Channel of rare quality.
Great video! Another thing I find interesting is that this view of one's own supremacy over others can be seen in how Northern Vietnamese elite viewed the rest of the country as well, Viets or non-Viets. This is manifested through the North's immense loyalty to the Le-Trinh political establishment, well beyond Gia Long's unification, viewing others as bandits and disloyal subjects against the Le emperors' natural orthodoxy. An example is that when Nguyen Hue (later Quang Trung emperor) of the Tay Son dynasty entered Hanoi and asked the Le emperor for a princess' hand in marriage. Trần Danh Án, a Le dynasty official, wrote the poem Tây Sơn Hành (西山行) to critique the event, describing Nguyen Hue's entry into Hanoi as: "羯塵漫塞長安路" or roughly "The barbarians' dust has flooded the streets of Chang'an". Then the poem continues to describe Nguyen Hue as a barbarian and the marriage as an insult to the imperial family, he even went on to describe their wedding night with heavy SA details as well. This view of seeing the North as the cradle of civilization in the Heaven's south obviously conflicts with later military development and figures from Central and Southern Vietnam. Even more conflicted is Gia Long's ultimate victory in the end, where he did not restore the Le emperor as expected, but to declare himself as emperor. This goes against centuries of Confucian loyalty to the Le imperial family in Vietnam, something that Gia Long's own family, the Nguyễn Gia Miêu clan has claimed so dearly ever since they first support Le Loi, the first Le emperor, to drive out the Ming Dynasty invaders; even leading the successful Le restoration later on when Le dynasty was first overthrown. This also explains the mistreatment of the North in both policy and taxation in the Nguyen Dynasty, and why Gia Long did not choose Hanoi as the capital, as a way to "punish" the stubborn Northerners, whose elites continued to be loyal to the Le in both writings and actions. The shift of the cultural and political center from Hanoi to Hue and the dismantling of the original Thang Long Imperial Citadel to build Hue was heavily mourned by the literati class such as the female poet Nguyen Thi Hinh in their works. Evidently, Northern Le loyalist revolts continued to break out throughout the duration of the Nguyen Dynasty till the very end, being one of the major causes of the successful French colonization, where these revolts forced Tu Duc to concede land to the French, in order to have time to pacify the North.
The Le-Trinh polity was actually considered a southern court (Nam triều) during the 16th century. Gia Long was a continuation of the Le-Trinh tradition.
Another incredibly well researched video, this guy refuses to disappoint!! Kinda just wish i was him tbh Are you using a new/different microphone from the one you used to record the Chinese Gazzette video?
how do you define the word "China" so it can be applied to all these different states and empires that you featured here? Do you use a cultural definition?
Sinitic is probably a better description, relatively free of the nationalist association that the word 'Chinese' is given. But every example Ly Van Phuc gave in his essay was "Chinese," culturally (Hua/Hoa, Efflorescence). What he and the Vietnamese elite rejected was being "Chinese" in a political sense--the loss of Vietnamese sovereignty to a Chinese state. But who could ever claim that the cultural can be entirely separated from the political? XD
@@inotaishu1i kinda have answers for your Q, but the videos are in Vietnamese, made by a C-Malaysian living in Vietnam, although there is Eng subtitles, people usually not really patient enough to watch video in other languages they don’t understand. Try to look up @ Tung Tung Soong (he graduated his mater in Taiwan, and Doctoral degree in history and eastern ideology studies in China).
Is it possible for you to make a video on the origins of Teochew and other Min peoples? Min languages have a very unique place in Sinitic languages as they are the only descendants of Old Chinese!
@@NoCareBearsGiven I am too familiar with the Hokkien speaking peoples, but I have videos in the working on Teochew expansion in Southeast Asia and Fujian religious cults
In 1833 the Qing dynasty ruled … the Manchus were more ‘Barbarian’ than the Viets. So Northern Vietnam is more East Asian while Southern Vietnam is more South East Asian, culturally and ethnically different?
Initially southern Vietnam was more indianized. As vietnamese kingdoms expanded southwards they assimilated and pushed the native peoples into other countries or into the mountainous areas.
@ ethnic Kinh (京) people north and south can have minor genetic differences. First off, most kinh people have partial Chinese ancestry due to China and Vietnam’s thousands of years of history and exchange. Many Chinese peoples throughout history migrated southwards during times of war, conflict, and famine. Many of these Chinese intermarried and became assimilated. In south and central vietnam some vietnamese can have some other southeast asian ancestry since those lands used to be territory of Champa and Cambodia. And these natives still reside there today.
Vietnamese is a modern nationality and like NoCareBearGivens said, Kinh is the actual designation for the “Vietnamese people” I mentioned in the video. The Kinh constituted the majority of the multi-ethnic nation state that is Vietnam today. The Cham and much of the highland peoples are still around, as part of the country’s many ethnic groups. At least half of Vietnam’s history is a story about Southern expansion, so much of the historical ‘South Vietnamese’ you mentioned originated from Vietnamese colonies in the Southern regions.
I read that Northern Vietnamese are 60% east Asian and southern Vietnamese are 40% east Asian. Also half of the vocabulary in the Vietnamese language comes from Chinse. If these numbers were true then the Vietnamese are basically half Chinese with a different national construct. Like Spaniards versus white Latinos.
May I ask White Latinos in your example meaning which type? The French? Portuguese? Italiano? Roman? All? Or the White Latin American only? Kinda confused.
Vietnam was taught to hate China by westerners. Since Qing failed to protect Vietnam during the French invasion in Vietnam, they fell to colonization. During this time they became partially westernized. The french, portugese, soviets, and americans all heavily indoctrinated vietnamese over centuries to turn Vietnam against China
Interesting! While I enjoy your content I am curious as to why your content only cover Vietnam from the 1800 and not further back. Your content shows how Vietnam political society was influent greatly by admiration or what not from the Chinese, it however does not discussed the influence of other powers at that time. Your content also show many maps and images that surely from the French (Wikipedia). The French has been involved in Vietnam way before 1800s and they were the main force that help Nguyen Anh take over the country. By what mean did the Vietnamese have control of Laos and Cambodia? It's incomprehensible to see pictures of the military officials in your content and visualizing their influence on territories hundreds of kilometers away separated jungles, mountains, and rivers,. I could not imagine the Hue central government message could be send to or control the local Indigenous tribes or warlords. No controls no country. I don't see high civilization that could influent militarily over vast land rough terrain. Perhaps, the ideal Vietnam was independent was country originated by the "Divide and Conquer" doctrine that the West has successfully over and over again all over the world, was build with the backing of the French and so the leaders of such regions will readily make bold statements. The French/West has so successful at splitting up large countries and making all powerful countries weak that spawns so many theories. From afar one not see differences of people in Vietnam versus other Chinese remote tribes from central plain. They all have their uniqueness but they were all Chinese. Political borders started when the West came. Then the cultural and language boundaries. The modern Vietnamese language is a result of colonialization. Once that wedge is driven people will try to establish their own identities. History are lies after lies...
thanks for the comment and questions! I talked about the reigns of Gia Long and Minh Mang simply because I know that period the best, and I do mention French support/presence in Gia Long's campaigns. And of course, you are 100% correct that French colonial efforts, especially processes of knowledge production about "Indochina," created the epistemic visage of Vietnam today. Heck, French colonial epistemology contributed a lot to the whole "Vietnam was a smaller China" narrative. History is not lies upon lies, but different narratives in competition against each other, we just need to be aware that certain voices will often be more powerful than others, and always try to trace the continuities and changes of those narratives. The Vietnamese elite did not just show "admiration" for the Chinese, imperial Vietnam was as much a center of Confucian learning and classical knowledge production as China. I did skip many forces at play. But the video is already 20min long; I tried to fit in the Minh Huong, the Chams and such, but I already feel bad for having to skip a whole lot of details even for the groups I mentioned. If you can, may I recommend reading about the reasons for and aftermaths of the Le Van Khoi revolt? Minh Mang's responses should answer most of your questions regarding imperial authority and efficiency of rule in this period. I showed the pictures I showed for several reasons: there are significantly lesser Vietnamese textual and graphic sources surviving today than say, in China or Korea, due to strict surveillance under the Nguyen state, the relatively underdeveloped publishing industry of Vietnam before the 20th century, and local conditions for textual preservation. For a very long time in the late imperial period, the city of Foshan in Southern China was responsible for accepting Vietnamese contracts and printing Vietnamese texts. Either way, it is impossible for me to travel personally to the Han-Nom institute in Hanoi or libraries of the EFEO in France to photograph their collections of "pictures" just so I have something to show on a youtube video.
@@Theliteratus168 Many points I would like to argue. But the main one is Divide and Conquer work very well. History are not different narratives. They always have hidden agendas. We are living in it now. 50 years from now the truth is told by the powerful force. History has always started with propagandas. You never directly response to my question whether the French/West goal splitting up China was the reason Vietnam got its identity. I believe if there were No French no Identity hence no Vietnam hence no "Little (smaller) China" as how the west would say it. As you mentioned the Fact that Foshan was printing the Vietnamese texts just reinforce my thoughts that Vietnam was not a high society. Imperial Vietnam was just a blown up versions of warlords. I only mentioned about the maps because it kind of misleading. For the purpose of you video well it might have served a purpose. many more but.... All theories, One question I wonder if you could explain how the Viet expanded south by eliminated the Cham. Maybe another video?
Just a small note: Khmer is pronounced k-mai, like "kuh-mai", but emphasis on the "mai". I personally wouldn't say the Nguyen lords were embracing non-Viet traditions of Southeast Asia. Their fashion laws were quite strict on presenting as Sinitic, and they were also using Classical Chinese to write. At no point in Vietnamese history were Nom script officially used in official documents, sans a few place names and words.
No such problems, he made that pretty clear in the videos. Our participation in the sinosphere is well-known our culture is heavily influenced Hans cultures, it's not hated nor misunderstood here. Removed the thinly veiled. china-centrist xenophobia and you may understand that. China have been ruled by "barbarians" for 842 years from the Tuobao to the Manchu, ours have kept those rites and tradition strong for almost 2000 years, even when you burned most it in the Cultural revolution. It's an important part of ours tradition, no intentions to wipe that away anytime soon.
China was always invaded by northern nomadic Mongols and Turks. But it was never invaded from the South, did no Viet, Burmese or Thai king dream of conquering China and beginning their own Chinese dynasty like the Mongols and Manchu?
Thats not true. You just dont see these events as much as Mongols or Jurchens/manchu because they never became as powerful or they were absorbed by Chiba Many southern states have invaded China ever sense the Warring states period. Chinese states had more incentive to push those indigenous from the south because the south has more resources and strategic importance than the north
@ are you referring to the ancient state of Yueh 越? The Chinese view them as “Chinese” and not foreigners. The Chinese invaded Vietnam for centuries but the Viets never thought about invading China.
South is a relative region and the “Yueh” you mentioned at one time encompassed the entirety of Southern China (and south of that). Chinese interactions with the “South” and “Southwest” did not gain as much attention as say, China’s conflicts with Northern peoples from the Steppes is likely because the Chinese state had a different set of policies in managing the South and Southwest regions (usually in the form of the Jimi system, whereby native rulers accept nominal Chinese rule while maintaining autonomy). But every dynasty in Chinese history have at least one conflict with the Southern/Southwestern peoples.
Look up the Song-Đại Việt war. The Tây Sơn dynasty also had plans for war against the Qing, but Nguyễn Huệ died so after a few years after the dynasty fell.
Some Nguyen argue with me,about how all the chinese culture are stolen from vietnamese, confucianism is from Vietnam,hanfu is vietnamese etc,he was coping so hard with his hate for China,he disassociate everything chinese in vietnamese culture as their own,and China stole it.😂
We don't claim those idiots, those who are educated will always tell the chinese are cultural brothers unlike those uneducated rice farmers who are nothing but revisionists
Must have been a South Vietnamese who fled to America in 1975. Some of them would say blatant lies to look stupid and cause Viet-Chinese hostility. Imagine if a Taiwanese say that Chinese culture is stolen from Japan(which is false) then Chinese people get angry, causing national hostility. Literally no one thinks China stole Vietnamese culture, wtf? Everyone knows China as a civilization is older than Vietnam.
All countries have these kinds of ultra-nationalists that refuse to have logic. I personally have seen many lunatic Chinese who tried to claim Ho Chi Minh and other Vietnamese elites as Chinese, including Ngo Bao Chau, Dang Thai Son or even the current president Luong Cuong just because he looks "handsome like a Han" 🤭
Amazing video! I love when a Sinospheric video has clear historical references and directly quote from Classical Chinese sources!
Enjoyed this and last month’s video about the Gazette. Such comprehensive sources on the far east can be hard to come by in the west, and would likely only focus on only a few of the points covered here.
These lenses into different civilizations, what they valued, and the demands their culture/customs and rulers impose on each other are nothing short of fascinating, already a Channel of rare quality.
Glad you enjoyed!
Great video!
Another thing I find interesting is that this view of one's own supremacy over others can be seen in how Northern Vietnamese elite viewed the rest of the country as well, Viets or non-Viets. This is manifested through the North's immense loyalty to the Le-Trinh political establishment, well beyond Gia Long's unification, viewing others as bandits and disloyal subjects against the Le emperors' natural orthodoxy.
An example is that when Nguyen Hue (later Quang Trung emperor) of the Tay Son dynasty entered Hanoi and asked the Le emperor for a princess' hand in marriage. Trần Danh Án, a Le dynasty official, wrote the poem Tây Sơn Hành (西山行) to critique the event, describing Nguyen Hue's entry into Hanoi as:
"羯塵漫塞長安路" or roughly "The barbarians' dust has flooded the streets of Chang'an". Then the poem continues to describe Nguyen Hue as a barbarian and the marriage as an insult to the imperial family, he even went on to describe their wedding night with heavy SA details as well.
This view of seeing the North as the cradle of civilization in the Heaven's south obviously conflicts with later military development and figures from Central and Southern Vietnam. Even more conflicted is Gia Long's ultimate victory in the end, where he did not restore the Le emperor as expected, but to declare himself as emperor. This goes against centuries of Confucian loyalty to the Le imperial family in Vietnam, something that Gia Long's own family, the Nguyễn Gia Miêu clan has claimed so dearly ever since they first support Le Loi, the first Le emperor, to drive out the Ming Dynasty invaders; even leading the successful Le restoration later on when Le dynasty was first overthrown.
This also explains the mistreatment of the North in both policy and taxation in the Nguyen Dynasty, and why Gia Long did not choose Hanoi as the capital, as a way to "punish" the stubborn Northerners, whose elites continued to be loyal to the Le in both writings and actions. The shift of the cultural and political center from Hanoi to Hue and the dismantling of the original Thang Long Imperial Citadel to build Hue was heavily mourned by the literati class such as the female poet Nguyen Thi Hinh in their works. Evidently, Northern Le loyalist revolts continued to break out throughout the duration of the Nguyen Dynasty till the very end, being one of the major causes of the successful French colonization, where these revolts forced Tu Duc to concede land to the French, in order to have time to pacify the North.
@@photastica Thanks for sharing it with us
Thank you sharing this important info that I missed! Le loyalism was indeed a very significant part of Nguyen history.
The Le-Trinh polity was actually considered a southern court (Nam triều) during the 16th century. Gia Long was a continuation of the Le-Trinh tradition.
@@saigonpunkiddid you mean southern court to the Ming Dynasty? Like the vessel state of Korean “Joseon” state right?
Another great video from Literatus
Another incredibly well researched video, this guy refuses to disappoint!! Kinda just wish i was him tbh
Are you using a new/different microphone from the one you used to record the Chinese Gazzette video?
Thank you for the continuous support! I really appreciate it. I am using a new mic, hopefully the audio quality has improved.
thank as american vietnamese,
Seldom do I get to chance to learn about this history,
besides few bits of history like the Trung Sisters, thank you.
how do you define the word "China" so it can be applied to all these different states and empires that you featured here? Do you use a cultural definition?
Sinitic is probably a better description, relatively free of the nationalist association that the word 'Chinese' is given. But every example Ly Van Phuc gave in his essay was "Chinese," culturally (Hua/Hoa, Efflorescence). What he and the Vietnamese elite rejected was being "Chinese" in a political sense--the loss of Vietnamese sovereignty to a Chinese state. But who could ever claim that the cultural can be entirely separated from the political? XD
@@Theliteratus168 from my pov, you did not answer my question. using sinitic is just another word for chinese then. But how do you define it?
@@inotaishu1i kinda have answers for your Q, but the videos are in Vietnamese, made by a C-Malaysian living in Vietnam, although there is Eng subtitles, people usually not really patient enough to watch video in other languages they don’t understand. Try to look up @ Tung Tung Soong (he graduated his mater in Taiwan, and Doctoral degree in history and eastern ideology studies in China).
Is it possible for you to make a video on the origins of Teochew and other Min peoples?
Min languages have a very unique place in Sinitic languages as they are the only descendants of Old Chinese!
@@NoCareBearsGiven I am too familiar with the Hokkien speaking peoples, but I have videos in the working on Teochew expansion in Southeast Asia and Fujian religious cults
In 1833 the Qing dynasty ruled … the Manchus were more ‘Barbarian’ than the Viets.
So Northern Vietnam is more East Asian while Southern Vietnam is more South East Asian, culturally and ethnically different?
Initially southern Vietnam was more indianized. As vietnamese kingdoms expanded southwards they assimilated and pushed the native peoples into other countries or into the mountainous areas.
@@NoCareBearsGiven but are northern Viets different from southern Viets? Ethnically I mean.
@ ethnic Kinh (京) people north and south can have minor genetic differences.
First off, most kinh people have partial Chinese ancestry due to China and Vietnam’s thousands of years of history and exchange. Many Chinese peoples throughout history migrated southwards during times of war, conflict, and famine. Many of these Chinese intermarried and became assimilated.
In south and central vietnam some vietnamese can have some other southeast asian ancestry since those lands used to be territory of Champa and Cambodia. And these natives still reside there today.
Vietnamese is a modern nationality and like NoCareBearGivens said, Kinh is the actual designation for the “Vietnamese people” I mentioned in the video. The Kinh constituted the majority of the multi-ethnic nation state that is Vietnam today. The Cham and much of the highland peoples are still around, as part of the country’s many ethnic groups.
At least half of Vietnam’s history is a story about Southern expansion, so much of the historical ‘South Vietnamese’ you mentioned originated from Vietnamese colonies in the Southern regions.
@@Nom_AnorVSJedikinh aka viet north or south are the same not much different in genetic.
I read that Northern Vietnamese are 60% east Asian and southern Vietnamese are 40% east Asian. Also half of the vocabulary in the Vietnamese language comes from Chinse. If these numbers were true then the Vietnamese are basically half Chinese with a different national construct. Like Spaniards versus white Latinos.
May I ask White Latinos in your example meaning which type? The French? Portuguese? Italiano? Roman? All? Or the White Latin American only? Kinda confused.
I'm a Chinese and I dated a Viet thinking our cultures are similar - she turned out to be crazy and I learned Viet culture is very different
Vietnam was taught to hate China by westerners. Since Qing failed to protect Vietnam during the French invasion in Vietnam, they fell to colonization. During this time they became partially westernized. The french, portugese, soviets, and americans all heavily indoctrinated vietnamese over centuries to turn Vietnam against China
It's not very different...we both eat rice, worship Taoist deities/Buddha, our vocabulary our similar such as our customs
im Viet ,in fact our culture is similar ,ur girlfriend is a nationalist,so she couldnt admit it,in vietnam many people like her
@@vonganduc5602 thats true, Vietnam and China are the closest of all sinospheric countries. One day hopefully they will work together
So you learned a culture by observing an individual's personality?
Interesting! While I enjoy your content I am curious as to why your content only cover Vietnam from the 1800 and not further back. Your content shows how Vietnam political society was influent greatly by admiration or what not from the Chinese, it however does not discussed the influence of other powers at that time. Your content also show many maps and images that surely from the French (Wikipedia). The French has been involved in Vietnam way before 1800s and they were the main force that help Nguyen Anh take over the country. By what mean did the Vietnamese have control of Laos and Cambodia? It's incomprehensible to see pictures of the military officials in your content and visualizing their influence on territories hundreds of kilometers away separated jungles, mountains, and rivers,. I could not imagine the Hue central government message could be send to or control the local Indigenous tribes or warlords. No controls no country. I don't see high civilization that could influent militarily over vast land rough terrain. Perhaps, the ideal Vietnam was independent was country originated by the "Divide and Conquer" doctrine that the West has successfully over and over again all over the world, was build with the backing of the French and so the leaders of such regions will readily make bold statements. The French/West has so successful at splitting up large countries and making all powerful countries weak that spawns so many theories. From afar one not see differences of people in Vietnam versus other Chinese remote tribes from central plain. They all have their uniqueness but they were all Chinese. Political borders started when the West came. Then the cultural and language boundaries. The modern Vietnamese language is a result of colonialization. Once that wedge is driven people will try to establish their own identities. History are lies after lies...
thanks for the comment and questions! I talked about the reigns of Gia Long and Minh Mang simply because I know that period the best, and I do mention French support/presence in Gia Long's campaigns. And of course, you are 100% correct that French colonial efforts, especially processes of knowledge production about "Indochina," created the epistemic visage of Vietnam today. Heck, French colonial epistemology contributed a lot to the whole "Vietnam was a smaller China" narrative. History is not lies upon lies, but different narratives in competition against each other, we just need to be aware that certain voices will often be more powerful than others, and always try to trace the continuities and changes of those narratives.
The Vietnamese elite did not just show "admiration" for the Chinese, imperial Vietnam was as much a center of Confucian learning and classical knowledge production as China.
I did skip many forces at play. But the video is already 20min long; I tried to fit in the Minh Huong, the Chams and such, but I already feel bad for having to skip a whole lot of details even for the groups I mentioned. If you can, may I recommend reading about the reasons for and aftermaths of the Le Van Khoi revolt? Minh Mang's responses should answer most of your questions regarding imperial authority and efficiency of rule in this period.
I showed the pictures I showed for several reasons: there are significantly lesser Vietnamese textual and graphic sources surviving today than say, in China or Korea, due to strict surveillance under the Nguyen state, the relatively underdeveloped publishing industry of Vietnam before the 20th century, and local conditions for textual preservation. For a very long time in the late imperial period, the city of Foshan in Southern China was responsible for accepting Vietnamese contracts and printing Vietnamese texts. Either way, it is impossible for me to travel personally to the Han-Nom institute in Hanoi or libraries of the EFEO in France to photograph their collections of "pictures" just so I have something to show on a youtube video.
@@Theliteratus168 Many points I would like to argue. But the main one is Divide and Conquer work very well.
History are not different narratives. They always have hidden agendas. We are living in it now. 50 years from now the truth is told by the powerful force. History has always started with propagandas. You never directly response to my question whether the French/West goal splitting up China was the reason Vietnam got its identity. I believe if there were No French no Identity hence no Vietnam hence no "Little (smaller) China" as how the west would say it.
As you mentioned the Fact that Foshan was printing the Vietnamese texts just reinforce my thoughts that Vietnam was not a high society. Imperial Vietnam was just a blown up versions of warlords.
I only mentioned about the maps because it kind of misleading. For the purpose of you video well it might have served a purpose.
many more but.... All theories, One question I wonder if you could explain how the Viet expanded south by eliminated the Cham. Maybe another video?
Just a small note: Khmer is pronounced k-mai, like "kuh-mai", but emphasis on the "mai".
I personally wouldn't say the Nguyen lords were embracing non-Viet traditions of Southeast Asia. Their fashion laws were quite strict on presenting as Sinitic, and they were also using Classical Chinese to write. At no point in Vietnamese history were Nom script officially used in official documents, sans a few place names and words.
@@conho4898 thank you for pointing out my mistake! You are absolutely right, imperial edicts would’ve been written in classical Chinese
@@conho4898 A 1788 edict Thái Đức has chữ Nôm mixed in with Classical Chinese.
詔傳羅山夫子阮涉欽知。 𣈜畧委朱夫子𧗱乂安相地濫都朱及期尼回御。牢𧗱細妬, 渚𧡊鄧役(⿰而二)? 𢧚唉駕回富春京, 休息士卒。丕詔頒下夫子早宜與鎮守慎共事, 經之營之, 相地作都在浮石。行宮稍後近山。其正地, 倣在民居於間, 咍羅兠吉地可都, 唯夫子道眼鑑定。早匕卜成！委朱鎮守慎早立宮殿。期三月內完成, 得便駕御。惟夫子勿以閒忽視。欽哉。特詔。泰德十一年, 六月, 初一日。
Agree with your points
I love my Chinese brothers and sisters !!!!!
Uh oh, here comes the horde of Vietnamese cyber forces telling you how Vietnam is not China
No such problems, he made that pretty clear in the videos. Our participation in the sinosphere is well-known our culture is heavily influenced Hans cultures, it's not hated nor misunderstood here. Removed the thinly veiled. china-centrist xenophobia and you may understand that.
China have been ruled by "barbarians" for 842 years from the Tuobao to the Manchu, ours have kept those rites and tradition strong for almost 2000 years, even when you burned most it in the Cultural revolution. It's an important part of ours tradition, no intentions to wipe that away anytime soon.
China was always invaded by northern nomadic Mongols and Turks. But it was never invaded from the South, did no Viet, Burmese or Thai king dream of conquering China and beginning their own Chinese dynasty like the Mongols and Manchu?
Thats not true. You just dont see these events as much as Mongols or Jurchens/manchu because they never became as powerful or they were absorbed by Chiba
Many southern states have invaded China ever sense the Warring states period. Chinese states had more incentive to push those indigenous from the south because the south has more resources and strategic importance than the north
@ are you referring to the ancient state of Yueh 越? The Chinese view them as “Chinese” and not foreigners. The Chinese invaded Vietnam for centuries but the Viets never thought about invading China.
South is a relative region and the “Yueh” you mentioned at one time encompassed the entirety of Southern China (and south of that). Chinese interactions with the “South” and “Southwest” did not gain as much attention as say, China’s conflicts with Northern peoples from the Steppes is likely because the Chinese state had a different set of policies in managing the South and Southwest regions (usually in the form of the Jimi system, whereby native rulers accept nominal Chinese rule while maintaining autonomy). But every dynasty in Chinese history have at least one conflict with the Southern/Southwestern peoples.
@@Nom_AnorVSJedithe Chinese did not just “invade” Vietnam for centuries, that is a very nationalistic way of looking at things
Look up the Song-Đại Việt war. The Tây Sơn dynasty also had plans for war against the Qing, but Nguyễn Huệ died so after a few years after the dynasty fell.
Some Nguyen argue with me,about how all the chinese culture are stolen from vietnamese, confucianism is from Vietnam,hanfu is vietnamese etc,he was coping so hard with his hate for China,he disassociate everything chinese in vietnamese culture as their own,and China stole it.😂
Unfortunately Vietnam was taught to hate China by westerners colonialism
We don't claim those idiots, those who are educated will always tell the chinese are cultural brothers unlike those uneducated rice farmers who are nothing but revisionists
China stole a shit ton of others architecture & technology, they steal chip design from US, so she ain't all that wrong
Must have been a South Vietnamese who fled to America in 1975. Some of them would say blatant lies to look stupid and cause Viet-Chinese hostility. Imagine if a Taiwanese say that Chinese culture is stolen from Japan(which is false) then Chinese people get angry, causing national hostility. Literally no one thinks China stole Vietnamese culture, wtf? Everyone knows China as a civilization is older than Vietnam.
All countries have these kinds of ultra-nationalists that refuse to have logic. I personally have seen many lunatic Chinese who tried to claim Ho Chi Minh and other Vietnamese elites as Chinese, including Ngo Bao Chau, Dang Thai Son or even the current president Luong Cuong just because he looks "handsome like a Han" 🤭