I started with Reinier when I first joined last season cos every guide was putting him first, with the 2nd place torn between Scarlita and Phraesto. I'm so glad I chose Phraesto as 2nd. I'm honestly really surprised by how fast Scarlita fell out of favour.
Yes scarlita was recommended over phraesto for a while, I even believed that for some time. But, after seeing phraesto's performance in dream realm being the best option in every single 8/8 dream realm boss, that showed that he is the king of the cele/hypos.
I remember a post on the subreddit arguing in favor of Scarlita over Phraesto as a second Celepogean after Reinier was M+. Unfortunately it convinced me to go for Scarlita at the end of Season 1 and most of Season 2. I regretted the decision as I was getting little use out of her since I only really casually engage in pvp so I left her at S to work on Phraesto, who is now currently at the same point, S, and just need one last copy to get him to S+. Twins are definitely what I work on next. They were meta since their release in AFK Arena and to this day are still considered a top tier support, and Journey's version of them only improved their mechanics, so they're almost certainly in it for the long haul.
Yeah, the twins are a must. More than half my guild originally tried to skip them, but had to cave in because they were falling behind in too many game modes. Like you said, supports are really powerful in this game and so from a futureproof standpoint, the twins are very safe to summon for.
Talene has a super unique kit. infinite Revives+ Pseudo Healing + almost full 90 sec ult duration + Revive and Dmg for another ally + Debuff dispelling. She is hard to powercreep than Harak by a mile cus Harak is just Seth with some extra steps lol
He will see some more use in endless than he currently is, but yes it is sad to see the downfall of harak due to the removal of his 2 best bosses: skyclops & necrodrakon
@@PuzzleAFKJThis is why this time I don't pull twins into supreme+ even though I have the resources. I am afraid of the " Harak Case" happens again. To pull a cele/hypo into supreme + make a large cost, The same amount of money can buy a lot of thing in real life.
@@caocao2727twins are a meta support , they won’t jsut get phased out bro. It doesn’t happen that way lol. Harak was just a damage dealer which can be power crept. Supports not rly
The impact of the Twins has been insane, i'm glad i was able to finish Phraesto at the start of the season & can now save up for my mext invest. Currently i would be able to get myself 4 copies of a new Cele/Hypo
Yes the twins have shaken up the meta more than any other hero, that's great you are on track to complete the twins before the end of this season hopefully!
@PuzzleAFKJ I really hope i can. Since my focus ain't on PvP i can skip a lot of Cele/Hypos. Hopefully the next few Events will give us even more Scamgazer tokens!
yeah same here, i’m getting reinier checked off now that i’ve finished pesto, everything else will be saved up for when we get the full picture of this season
My S+ Ex20 Scarlita is gathering dust... Hopefully they add a cel/hypo swap card. I mean, it's only a matter of time before they add some sort of Cel/Hypo tower (like in AFK Arena) but that might take a few years. Unless Lilith incorporates the ultimate Christmas spirit and hands out this gift for all of us, I don't think that swap card will be added into the game this year.
Scarlita is still pretty useful in Supreme Arena, both offense and defense - especially due to the Rivalry stat boost to Supreme+ celehypos. :) Other thatn that you're absolutely right about her gathering dust. =/
I just finished s+ Harak a week ago, and He is my first s+ hypo/cele. I decided to build him because his design looks really cool to me. I really hope Harak shines again in the future…
This video came just when I need a clear thought. my pesto S+ 25, Scarl S+ 10, reiner S 10,now twins 1 copy ,talene 2 copies .I was so confused I was going to committ to Talene. You just saved me, I will build twins now. Twins Afk stages resonance defecit push is also OP.
Smart decision, it is always best to wait and see how the meta shapes up for the endless bosses, right now we only have a week of testing on VN server in endless, so we will get more clarity with time about all of this
I don't know why everyone is saying that but she's my strongest team in Supreme arena and in normal arena. She's still dominating, she's still strong and beating meta teams
@@claynone105 Yes, whenever i am in supreme arena, i do not fear pesto i wacht out for Scarlita. I dont have pesto highly ascended but in DR i am never gonna beat the whales so i dont really need him at S+.
The experience of playing alot of gacha games will tell you that Harak is a niche character and will probably get powercrept fast. Alot of f2p and whales were baited real hard by Harak.
I am sure that everyone, by the time Harak came out, was aware that any character would eventually be powercrept after the experiences with the likes of Korin, Scarlita & co after 9 months since the game launch, but to see a hypogean become useless in just a couple months time is quite frightening. We still need to check how the meta will settle once we reach endless in dream realm and the max level cap in the many gamemodes, but the premises are definitely not reassuring
I wish the admin would add a celehypo swap ticket and give a free copy of all the celehypos of last season. But aside from that and more importantly they shouldn't make changes like they did with the twins. The twins pre buff would have been BiS for quite a few bosses and some afk stages, but now they are just absolutely overpowered. I just worry that we will get to a point where the best team for every mode is just a full cele/hypo team. I think that'd be pretty sad. Thanks for the video anyways :D
Yes antistory, your point is very true. Twins pre-buff were balanced, post-buff they are overpowered and now everyone needs to rush to building them. Honestly the direction we are headed is more and more cele/hypos in each top team. If we get some insane main faction buffers or damage dealers maybe things can change
The only thing I've been wondering about that you didn't mention is exclusive equipment break points on the Twins. I've loved my +25 Phraesto, but the arguments for Twins are interesting. It could be: Stop at +15 because the stats don't matter much Stop at +20 because the stats matter for Enhance Force but +25 is really expensive Go to +25 because the stats matter for Enhance Force and it's used for every Dream Realm boss always so the cost is worth it My plan was +25, but we'll see how things evolve!
Honestly why is Scarlita hated by devs? Talene gets amazing charms every season that make her great dps and overall solid hero. Scarlita got okay charms on first sesson then she gets gutted, only sees some use in pvp. Harak is slowly approaching this fate as well. She isnt even top tier option in pvp anymore.
I greatly regret trying to build Harak. Got him to Legendary already, and 1 copy away from Mythic. I could have used those resources for maxing out Phraesto. Anyways, gotta be smarter with my priorities from now on haha
Yes especially because at global launch with only 4 cele/hypos it seemed like we could pick anyone we wanted after getting reinier to M+, but then we started quickly getting more cele/hypos added faster than is possible to keep up
My priority for a newbie: Phraesto L+ (considering the timegates it is enough for AFK and storyline ) > 1 copy Reinier > Twins S+. Then you just save up 8 copies of the character and look at the new heroes, if they can be skipped, you collect the previous ones
As a f2p I overinvested into Talene cause she is hot. Next I'll simply w8. Also Valka actually outdamages sharkboi thx to her rly strong attack speed buff.
Harak is actually doing better than valka in endless on VN server. He's currently used in the top team for 3 bosses: Orson, Plague Creeper & Crazed shellbrute. For the other ones it's very unlikely he will be the best choice though
Build twins BEFORE phraesto?? That's something. People will wonder if they should stop building phraesto and build twins instead asap even mid-way through finishing him up.
I mentioned it's very close between the 2, and you can build either first. Personally if both were at scratch I would build twins first, because twins are working with sonja & sinbad even in endless right now. If phraesto is mid-way then he should be completed first. It's only heroes further down like harak/talene that I would recommend abandoning mid-way
I think that for completely new account that just started playing, Phraesto is a better "first pick" than Twins because as an new account your options for stage pushing are very limited and having Phreasto can make your life way easier. He will help a lot even at lower tiers and will be a good unit that you can upgrade alongside other characters and get great value in any type of team. Twins I don't think they will help a new account that much, they will be better in pre-endless but then for afk stages, PvP and endless I think Phraesto is just better. You could make a point that Twins are also good for afk stages but without a key units build up to higher tiers I don't think they are that good and as a new account you might not see that M+ Eiron and M+ Ulmus combo for a quite some time (depending on your luck). I would say go for Twins first if you are a spender and Phraesto if F2P.
I agree with your points Varvadius, I think phraesto as the first pick is definitely the safe option and a great option. But based on the twins performance in dream realm & afk stages I think they might also be the best to choose first. I think what needs to be checked is if the S+ twins without phraesto teams do better in dream realm than the S+ phraesto teams without twins. For pre-endless it is definitely the case, but for endless we will have to see
I really hope that a swap ticket can be added eventually, because I think most of us have over-invested into a cele/hypo which we would like to change to something more useful
Should Pesto go to s+ now? I know I need to do twins first, but after that? My current cel/hypos are: Pesto at s with +15 exclusive equipment. Harak at s+ Reiner at m+ Scarlita at s Twins, Talene, Dionel, and Berial at 1 copy I get that Pesto scales in endless based on 40% of his attack and that ascending him to s+ will increase his attack. But is that worth it before other hero's now?
Hey had a question, since there's a login event for my server that I'm guaranteed to get phraesto on at some point. I'm at 3/4 to S+ would it be fine to just leave him there till I get the last copy?
I did not have time to start with harak, and i have started saving 60 crystals and 60000 guild currency, until i know which is better to invest in. I actually have zero dudes at s+. I went with reinier m+. Scarlita m+, talene supreme, Phraesto m+.. and thats about it so far.
Hello i do have talene only at s and it is good enough, usable on all content, the 4 copies to s plus is huge so yes you could spend it on the twins. Twins at supreme is good but ofcourse better at s+
Need some advice, currently have M+ Talene and 1 copy of Twins, currently maintaining top 100 in everything and want to push for top 50. Should i finish talene S+ or continue building Twins?
im still hurt with my S+ scarlita who is currently collecting dust because i dont use her anymore even in supreme arena they better give us a swap ticket for cele/hypo soon
I had to buy harak copies to M (+chest left) because of capped GPs. I am now at 180k again and have 340 scamgazers. Already have reinier and pesto built. Would you finish him and go for twins after him or just put harak down and perhaps only buy him with capped GPs? Thanks mate, you are the king of AFKJ
Gaawd Im so torn. I really want to start building twins but pesto is 2/4 S+. Would you say to finish pesto before going for twins? Or is the added value of S>S+ for pesto so limited twins is the way to go?
I would finish phraesto to S+ and take him to EX+20/25 then go for twins to S+. You're in a good position, there will definitely be good endless dream realm teams using phraesto and low copy or no twins
I've saved up over 100k guild coins and about 130 gazers, I have Phraesto, Talene and Reinier all built... I've been thinking of waiting for all celehypos to come out this season before investing in anyone, but given how strong the twins are, would you recommend I pull for them or wait for the rest of the celehypos?
My Phraesto is currently in Supreme tier, but with the Twins being a more relevant in most content, should I start investing on Twins now or should I still invest on Phraesto until Supreme+?
Go S+ on Phraesto. It’ll take you a while to get the twins ready and while I think the twins are relatively future proof, we don’t know really. So get the DPS increase on Phraesto (as well as PvP utility and everything else) to tie you up until you can finish the twins.
I have reiner at m+, Talene at S+ and Pharesto at S, I know people keep saying go S+ for Phraesto and I'll work slowly on that. Who should I go after next?
Annoying as I legitimately got harak to s+ a couple of hours ago. I have wanted to build Talene for ages, but everyone said she isn't great. I am regretting it now as I love her aoe power.
Lol, she's definitely a bracket above Berial, I just talked about them altogether in the end. But yes, scarlita is just niche for PvP, still good, but you could skip her and not even notice
As a F2P I'm so torn on all this cel/hypogean stuff. 17 days in and everyone keeps saying go for Phraesto first. He barely sees use in DR right now, meanwhile the twins is on pretty much all of them. While Reinier M+ is also a really good option and very used. I did go for Phraesto, but I can't help but think I should have picked twins
Yes as a new player it is VERY overwhelming. But you are doing well, phraesto to S+ is a solid first choice, and you may doubt it because at pre-endless level phraesto is hardly used, but you will see when you make it to endless why he is so strong. Twins to S+ are very important as well, and depending on how the entire endless meta shapes up may be higher in priority over phraesto, that's why I was torn in this video but deciding to place them first. But you can't go wrong if your first 2 cele/hypos are phraesto & twins to S+, no matter which order you decide
I personally think if you're a new player and you are trying to decide what to build first, you should probably build phraesto because he is providing a lot more in AFK stages which are already difficult enough and phraesto provides a ton of value there, the twins are not working as well until higher investment for afk stages due to being fragile. I think we need to consider the f2p perspective more and what they may be going through which is hard to determine unless you've dealt with it.
The time it takes for most players to invest enough on a celehypo to make them work means there's always a chance they will be powercrept by the time youre done :/ If you want to be efficient you save for as long as possible, but that is simply not fun.
@@edumazieri Uh, no, they provide value as little as 7 copies, that's mythic+, if you wanna make that argument you could just save forever and never get any cele/hypo because they may get powercrept, also if that were the case then why are my m+ cele/hypos providing me value right now and increasing my ranks if there's this fear they will just get powercrept? gotta think intelligently about which ones you're picking and that is always the case with any decision you make.
I'm still waiting on the resources to get the last copy of Phraesto to S+, starting to think about just putting that towards twins and finishing him after getting them to S+
I would say complete phraesto to S+ since you are so close. Then build up the twins gradually after that. I'm hoping the twins can work at lower ascension when we get to endless.
@@CatturdDaily it's weird for zeebo to recommend skipping the twins though. I slightly disagree with puzzle tho and I'd say at least S or S+ phraesto before going on to the twins
When I first found out about the eating own heroes mechanic I really was not expecting him to be good for dream realm, but he ended up dominating. I think the thing with harak is he is the best and probably always will be at specific bosses, such as summoning bosses or where you need to move to dispell debuffs like necrodrakon. But in regular bosses it's harder for him to compete
TLDR: CLICK READ MORE 👇👇👇 Harak is not so good this season (only good for plague creeper, his 2 other best bosses got removed so don't worry if you invested in him) n1 pick - Twins S+ n2 pick - Phraesto M+ ideally S+ n3 pick - Reinier M+ F2P players can stop here n4 pick - Talene M+ ideally S+ n5 pick - Harak M+ ideally S+ Competitive F2P or low/mid spenders stop here n6 pick - Dunlingr n7 pick - Scarlita n8 pick - Dionel n9 pick - Berial
Phraesto S+!!! Also, if you have already started on phraesto finish him to S+ EX+20 before switching to twins. Make use of 1 copy twins where possible.
There's no point in bringing Harak only to M+. For PvP you want ANY hero at S+, and in DR he is not really viable until S+ either because that's what unlocks his ult spam for high single target damage. So Harak is not worth building unless you can get him to S+.
Yes, but based on the VN server testing so far: twins have been used in every endless team, phraesto in most teams as well. Reinier seeing a bit of use. Harak was best in orson & plague creeper in endless this week.
I started with Reinier when I first joined last season cos every guide was putting him first, with the 2nd place torn between Scarlita and Phraesto. I'm so glad I chose Phraesto as 2nd. I'm honestly really surprised by how fast Scarlita fell out of favour.
Yes scarlita was recommended over phraesto for a while, I even believed that for some time. But, after seeing phraesto's performance in dream realm being the best option in every single 8/8 dream realm boss, that showed that he is the king of the cele/hypos.
I feel you and congrats ❤ I'm that guy that chose the opposite 😅
I just went full Scarlita before season 1 ended.. Sad...
I remember a post on the subreddit arguing in favor of Scarlita over Phraesto as a second Celepogean after Reinier was M+. Unfortunately it convinced me to go for Scarlita at the end of Season 1 and most of Season 2. I regretted the decision as I was getting little use out of her since I only really casually engage in pvp so I left her at S to work on Phraesto, who is now currently at the same point, S, and just need one last copy to get him to S+. Twins are definitely what I work on next. They were meta since their release in AFK Arena and to this day are still considered a top tier support, and Journey's version of them only improved their mechanics, so they're almost certainly in it for the long haul.
Same almost got pabresto s+ so I need to see whose next
Yeah, the twins are a must. More than half my guild originally tried to skip them, but had to cave in because they were falling behind in too many game modes. Like you said, supports are really powerful in this game and so from a futureproof standpoint, the twins are very safe to summon for.
Talene has a super unique kit. infinite Revives+ Pseudo Healing + almost full 90 sec ult duration + Revive and Dmg for another ally + Debuff dispelling. She is hard to powercreep than Harak by a mile cus Harak is just Seth with some extra steps lol
I wish we can get a hypo switch card. If ever we choose to get twins over invested Harak
Yes let's hope we can get one
Or a link like arena
It would be nice if they introduced a hero swap ticket for cele/hypo units in the next upcoming patches
I really hope so!
👍👍
Even if we only get 1 a year it would be so helpful
yeah, I love Talene, but I'd trade her for the twins in a heartbeat (I only have her, Phraesto and Reinier)
I got a feeling that this Ice Bithc is gonnna be AMAZING. The Power Creep has really sped up.
has it really
Yes. Even lily may fall down
It is a shame for Lilith to treat Harak like this. His value drops dramatically just after 1.5 months
He will see some more use in endless than he currently is, but yes it is sad to see the downfall of harak due to the removal of his 2 best bosses: skyclops & necrodrakon
@@PuzzleAFKJThis is why this time I don't pull twins into supreme+ even though I have the resources. I am afraid of the " Harak Case" happens again. To pull a cele/hypo into supreme + make a large cost, The same amount of money can buy a lot of thing in real life.
@@caocao2727twins are a meta support , they won’t jsut get phased out bro. It doesn’t happen that way lol. Harak was just a damage dealer which can be power crept. Supports not rly
@@ksam400 a crisis of faith towards Lilith. For example, Lilith can change the map easily to restrict twins position
@@PuzzleAFKJ Other than the dream realm, Harak cannot fight againt Talene, Bonnie and Tasi combination. It hurts a lot.
The impact of the Twins has been insane, i'm glad i was able to finish Phraesto at the start of the season & can now save up for my mext invest. Currently i would be able to get myself 4 copies of a new Cele/Hypo
Yes the twins have shaken up the meta more than any other hero, that's great you are on track to complete the twins before the end of this season hopefully!
@PuzzleAFKJ I really hope i can. Since my focus ain't on PvP i can skip a lot of Cele/Hypos. Hopefully the next few Events will give us even more Scamgazer tokens!
I have 140k guild coins and over 200 stargazers just waiting for all the celestial/hypogeons to come out this season.
That's a smart decision!
yeah same here, i’m getting reinier checked off now that i’ve finished pesto, everything else will be saved up for when we get the full picture of this season
My S+ Ex20 Scarlita is gathering dust...
Hopefully they add a cel/hypo swap card. I mean, it's only a matter of time before they add some sort of Cel/Hypo tower (like in AFK Arena) but that might take a few years. Unless Lilith incorporates the ultimate Christmas spirit and hands out this gift for all of us, I don't think that swap card will be added into the game this year.
Scarlita is still pretty useful in Supreme Arena, both offense and defense - especially due to the Rivalry stat boost to Supreme+ celehypos. :) Other thatn that you're absolutely right about her gathering dust. =/
I just finished s+ Harak a week ago, and He is my first s+ hypo/cele. I decided to build him because his design looks really cool to me. I really hope Harak shines again in the future…
This video came just when I need a clear thought. my pesto S+ 25, Scarl S+ 10, reiner S 10,now twins 1 copy ,talene 2 copies .I was so confused I was going to committ to Talene. You just saved me, I will build twins now. Twins Afk stages resonance defecit push is also OP.
As non spender, i will wait and save the stargazer. It takes me 1 seasons just to build 1 s+ phraesto
Smart decision, it is always best to wait and see how the meta shapes up for the endless bosses, right now we only have a week of testing on VN server in endless, so we will get more clarity with time about all of this
its sad to see scarlita fall like this. she was recommended as second c/h hero even when phraesto and talene just came out
Yes it's sad, let's get a scarlita buff!
I don't know why everyone is saying that but she's my strongest team in Supreme arena and in normal arena.
She's still dominating, she's still strong and beating meta teams
@@claynone105 same. even if there's a cele/hypo swap ticker in the future, I wont be switching her out. I like her kit and animation
@@MrVMQ-tv1yb Same here. Never gonna give her up.😅
@@claynone105 Yes, whenever i am in supreme arena, i do not fear pesto i wacht out for Scarlita. I dont have pesto highly ascended but in DR i am never gonna beat the whales so i dont really need him at S+.
The experience of playing alot of gacha games will tell you that Harak is a niche character and will probably get powercrept fast. Alot of f2p and whales were baited real hard by Harak.
I knew he was going to get power crept fast but like barely any use this season so far and came out at end of last season just doesn’t make sense
I am sure that everyone, by the time Harak came out, was aware that any character would eventually be powercrept after the experiences with the likes of Korin, Scarlita & co after 9 months since the game launch, but to see a hypogean become useless in just a couple months time is quite frightening. We still need to check how the meta will settle once we reach endless in dream realm and the max level cap in the many gamemodes, but the premises are definitely not reassuring
I wish the admin would add a celehypo swap ticket and give a free copy of all the celehypos of last season. But aside from that and more importantly they shouldn't make changes like they did with the twins. The twins pre buff would have been BiS for quite a few bosses and some afk stages, but now they are just absolutely overpowered. I just worry that we will get to a point where the best team for every mode is just a full cele/hypo team. I think that'd be pretty sad.
Thanks for the video anyways :D
Yes antistory, your point is very true. Twins pre-buff were balanced, post-buff they are overpowered and now everyone needs to rush to building them. Honestly the direction we are headed is more and more cele/hypos in each top team. If we get some insane main faction buffers or damage dealers maybe things can change
I get how they wanna make celehypos the "strongest" units, but they've taken it a bit too far.
The only thing I've been wondering about that you didn't mention is exclusive equipment break points on the Twins. I've loved my +25 Phraesto, but the arguments for Twins are interesting. It could be:
Stop at +15 because the stats don't matter much
Stop at +20 because the stats matter for Enhance Force but +25 is really expensive
Go to +25 because the stats matter for Enhance Force and it's used for every Dream Realm boss always so the cost is worth it
My plan was +25, but we'll see how things evolve!
Twins need +25?
Currently working on the Twins after getting very lucky with Phraesto summons (got some doubles and early pities, shaving off 2-3 months of waiting)
Thats amazing Chrom, good luck on stellar crystals saves a lot of time!
@@PuzzleAFKJ yeah if it weren’t for that I’d be real behind xd. Got lucky w twin summons and they’re 1/2 of the way to M
I’ve held off on building the Twins for a while cuz waiting for Endless and seeing how good ice mommy is before I commit.
twins is used in endless according to vn server
phew i was very close to pulling for harak instead of twins when they first dropped
My account would be so good if I didn't build Scarlita xD
Me and I think a lot of people feel the same way 😂
Me too 😂😂
When i finally built S+ Scarlita, she became useless. It feels so sad :(
You can still use her in supreme arena, thoran soul pact hewynn, scarlita, lily may, damian/arden. It's a strong stall team.
Honestly why is Scarlita hated by devs? Talene gets amazing charms every season that make her great dps and overall solid hero. Scarlita got okay charms on first sesson then she gets gutted, only sees some use in pvp. Harak is slowly approaching this fate as well. She isnt even top tier option in pvp anymore.
yeah scarlita has been left behind. Honestly it feels like most of the starter story 4 cele hypos are pretty neglected, other than reinier
@PuzzleAFKJ hope we at least get a rly good team mate for Scarlita. Just like Talene got Tasi
I greatly regret trying to build Harak. Got him to Legendary already, and 1 copy away from Mythic. I could have used those resources for maxing out Phraesto. Anyways, gotta be smarter with my priorities from now on haha
This makes me sad because I just finished S+ harak 2 weeks ago :(
i was about to ask if you will ever make a celehypo priority unit, this came just in time
❤️
Kinda sad I went for Dionel first then Talene… both are S+.. working on Phaestro now but I feel so much behind..
Yes especially because at global launch with only 4 cele/hypos it seemed like we could pick anyone we wanted after getting reinier to M+, but then we started quickly getting more cele/hypos added faster than is possible to keep up
My priority for a newbie: Phraesto L+ (considering the timegates it is enough for AFK and storyline ) > 1 copy Reinier > Twins S+. Then you just save up 8 copies of the character and look at the new heroes, if they can be skipped, you collect the previous ones
As a f2p I overinvested into Talene cause she is hot. Next I'll simply w8. Also Valka actually outdamages sharkboi thx to her rly strong attack speed buff.
Harak is actually doing better than valka in endless on VN server. He's currently used in the top team for 3 bosses: Orson, Plague Creeper & Crazed shellbrute. For the other ones it's very unlikely he will be the best choice though
I have Phraesto, Scarlita, Harak and Reinier built. Do i build Talene or the twins next?
Twins!
Build twins BEFORE phraesto?? That's something. People will wonder if they should stop building phraesto and build twins instead asap even mid-way through finishing him up.
I mentioned it's very close between the 2, and you can build either first. Personally if both were at scratch I would build twins first, because twins are working with sonja & sinbad even in endless right now. If phraesto is mid-way then he should be completed first. It's only heroes further down like harak/talene that I would recommend abandoning mid-way
I think that for completely new account that just started playing, Phraesto is a better "first pick" than Twins because as an new account your options for stage pushing are very limited and having Phreasto can make your life way easier. He will help a lot even at lower tiers and will be a good unit that you can upgrade alongside other characters and get great value in any type of team. Twins I don't think they will help a new account that much, they will be better in pre-endless but then for afk stages, PvP and endless I think Phraesto is just better. You could make a point that Twins are also good for afk stages but without a key units build up to higher tiers I don't think they are that good and as a new account you might not see that M+ Eiron and M+ Ulmus combo for a quite some time (depending on your luck). I would say go for Twins first if you are a spender and Phraesto if F2P.
I agree with your points Varvadius, I think phraesto as the first pick is definitely the safe option and a great option. But based on the twins performance in dream realm & afk stages I think they might also be the best to choose first. I think what needs to be checked is if the S+ twins without phraesto teams do better in dream realm than the S+ phraesto teams without twins. For pre-endless it is definitely the case, but for endless we will have to see
Do you have a video on charm priority? If not I would super appreciate that! ❤
I don't have a video on it, will make one soon, thanks for the idea!
When I first started, I chose the Scarlita S+ and now I regret it. Perhaps there is still some hope of exchanging god-level tickets in the future?
I really hope that a swap ticket can be added eventually, because I think most of us have over-invested into a cele/hypo which we would like to change to something more useful
@@PuzzleAFKJ Hope so too.
Reinier: "My loss of value have been greatly exaggerated."
went first with reiner, m+ then talene s+ and finished phraesto s+ never regreted with talene,
I've been saving up for the Twins but I'm holding off until they release the Ice Queen hypo
Should Pesto go to s+ now? I know I need to do twins first, but after that?
My current cel/hypos are:
Pesto at s with +15 exclusive equipment.
Harak at s+
Reiner at m+
Scarlita at s
Twins, Talene, Dionel, and Berial at 1 copy
I get that Pesto scales in endless based on 40% of his attack and that ascending him to s+ will increase his attack. But is that worth it before other hero's now?
Hey had a question, since there's a login event for my server that I'm guaranteed to get phraesto on at some point. I'm at 3/4 to S+ would it be fine to just leave him there till I get the last copy?
Yes otherwise you will only have 1 into paragon not worth it
@@snake8534 yes
I did not have time to start with harak, and i have started saving 60 crystals and 60000 guild currency, until i know which is better to invest in. I actually have zero dudes at s+. I went with reinier m+. Scarlita m+, talene supreme, Phraesto m+.. and thats about it so far.
Im going for twins
Reiner -> Pesto -> Twins -> Talene -> w/e
Good plan! But Reinier falls off in endless sadly, but it will be nice to have reinier built for the pre-endless bosses in all future seasons!
If I have Phraesto at Supreme would you recommend getting Phraesto to Supreme plus first or move onto the Twins right now?
@@giannisalazar267 S with weapon at lvl 15 in my experience has been useful enough. Im moving on to twins soon
Hey Puzzle I just started and I'm f2p I got phareosto from the login , should I get a copy of the twins now and then build on him.
I'm saving for either the twins or the last hypo/celes hero. Cryonaia could be skipable.
I need 3 more copies on Phraesto to S+. Should I stop & start build for the Twins?
I do have 1 copy of the twins
S+ Phraesto. That shield is good for him even if it lasts for only 12 seconds.
I just finished with Phraesto , and got 2 copies of twins yesterday . Now waiting 2-3 months to max them out :/
Do you think it's a good idea to get Talene from S to S+ before going for the Twins?
I would start going for the twins and not S+ talene.
Hello i do have talene only at s and it is good enough, usable on all content, the 4 copies to s plus is huge so yes you could spend it on the twins. Twins at supreme is good but ofcourse better at s+
Yeah, we don't know what developer do
Maybe they make old hypo celes upgrade their supreme+ skill
Need some advice, currently have M+ Talene and 1 copy of Twins, currently maintaining top 100 in everything and want to push for top 50. Should i finish talene S+ or continue building Twins?
Me with S+ scar hoping she had make a comeback 🫡
im still hurt with my S+ scarlita who is currently collecting dust because i dont use her anymore even in supreme arena they better give us a swap ticket for cele/hypo soon
I don't use my supreme+ Phraesto for damage. For me it's more for the buffs he gives to the heroes behind him...
I had to buy harak copies to M (+chest left) because of capped GPs. I am now at 180k again and have 340 scamgazers. Already have reinier and pesto built. Would you finish him and go for twins after him or just put harak down and perhaps only buy him with capped GPs? Thanks mate, you are the king of AFKJ
Abandon Harak for right now, and go all in on the twins until S+. After that you can complete harak to S+ or just save for future cele/hypos.
Thanks
So do you think valka is a skip then? Since she’s not making waves in dream realm where she was supposed to be strong?
Gaawd Im so torn. I really want to start building twins but pesto is 2/4 S+. Would you say to finish pesto before going for twins? Or is the added value of S>S+ for pesto so limited twins is the way to go?
I would finish phraesto to S+ and take him to EX+20/25 then go for twins to S+. You're in a good position, there will definitely be good endless dream realm teams using phraesto and low copy or no twins
@@PuzzleAFKJ Thanks man, was hoping you'd say this! And thanks for the daily awesome content!
Received 2 early copies haha
I've saved up over 100k guild coins and about 130 gazers, I have Phraesto, Talene and Reinier all built... I've been thinking of waiting for all celehypos to come out this season before investing in anyone, but given how strong the twins are, would you recommend I pull for them or wait for the rest of the celehypos?
Is the twins usable in M+?
My Phraesto is now at S. Should I S+ him or should I now focus on the twins?
S+ is really usefull in AFK arena and Pvp, but for bossing S is enough
Twins,talene or harak to pull from zero?
I must pull phraesto to paragon?
twins, to S+. Don't paragon phraesto.
What hero i should focus on as f2p? I have legend reiner, legend+ phesto, epic+ talene, and i don’t have the twins yet.
Complete phraesto to S+ EX+20 then go for twins after that
@@PuzzleAFKJ noted! ty
My Phraesto is currently in Supreme tier, but with the Twins being a more relevant in most content, should I start investing on Twins now or should I still invest on Phraesto until Supreme+?
Go S+ on Phraesto. It’ll take you a while to get the twins ready and while I think the twins are relatively future proof, we don’t know really. So get the DPS increase on Phraesto (as well as PvP utility and everything else) to tie you up until you can finish the twins.
I just used my first 40 pulls to get a phraesto before I saw this haha
Question about paragon upgrading, should I upgrade my lily may to from paragon 1 to paragon 2 or upgrade my tasi from S+ to paragon 1 first?
I got m+ reiner s+ scarlita s pharesto with 2 copies so idk if i go for talene twins or maradak
I stopped playing for a bit but I'm back now. I have Phrasesto M+, should I finish him out or just switch to twins now?
I have reiner at m+, Talene at S+ and Pharesto at S, I know people keep saying go S+ for Phraesto and I'll work slowly on that. Who should I go after next?
How important is +15 ability/extra stats from +25 for Twins?
Annoying as I legitimately got harak to s+ a couple of hours ago. I have wanted to build Talene for ages, but everyone said she isn't great. I am regretting it now as I love her aoe power.
I have Phresto on S and 0 copies, should I go now for twins or finish him? Or maybe wait for next heroes ? :)
If I have Phraesto at Supreme with 1 copy, should I deviate from Phraesto and focus on the Twins?
I have Harak at M+ right now, should i pivot to twins instead of finishing S+?
I have Phraesto supreme do i go supreme+ or should go for the Twins ? they already epic+
thank you for the video
Poor Scarlita in the same bracket as Berial.
Lol, she's definitely a bracket above Berial, I just talked about them altogether in the end. But yes, scarlita is just niche for PvP, still good, but you could skip her and not even notice
I just need 2 more copies for my phraesto to be S+, should i just finish him or just put him on pause and go full on twins?
So I have pesto and twins at S +10. Which one to take S+ first. Twins?
Short answer.. all of them! Lol
Lol, maybe all except Berial 💀
I WAS ABOUT TO SAY THAT 😂😂
@ksam400 but u beat me to it
@@PuzzleAFKJ Berial hit dislike button
Harak is dead :(
I can pull 7/8 copies should I pull twins or wait? Phaestro full maxed 25+
Hey now put some respect on my boy berials name ok ive been running a Berial Bonnie comp in both SA and regular arena and its been great
I was so happy without the OP twins -.-''
I'm saving my resources.
Harak already empty my pocket 😅.
And I'm waiting the downfall of grandpa praesto 😊, he's old
As a F2P I'm so torn on all this cel/hypogean stuff. 17 days in and everyone keeps saying go for Phraesto first. He barely sees use in DR right now, meanwhile the twins is on pretty much all of them. While Reinier M+ is also a really good option and very used. I did go for Phraesto, but I can't help but think I should have picked twins
Yes as a new player it is VERY overwhelming. But you are doing well, phraesto to S+ is a solid first choice, and you may doubt it because at pre-endless level phraesto is hardly used, but you will see when you make it to endless why he is so strong. Twins to S+ are very important as well, and depending on how the entire endless meta shapes up may be higher in priority over phraesto, that's why I was torn in this video but deciding to place them first. But you can't go wrong if your first 2 cele/hypos are phraesto & twins to S+, no matter which order you decide
I personally think if you're a new player and you are trying to decide what to build first, you should probably build phraesto because he is providing a lot more in AFK stages which are already difficult enough and phraesto provides a ton of value there, the twins are not working as well until higher investment for afk stages due to being fragile. I think we need to consider the f2p perspective more and what they may be going through which is hard to determine unless you've dealt with it.
The time it takes for most players to invest enough on a celehypo to make them work means there's always a chance they will be powercrept by the time youre done :/ If you want to be efficient you save for as long as possible, but that is simply not fun.
@@edumazieri Uh, no, they provide value as little as 7 copies, that's mythic+, if you wanna make that argument you could just save forever and never get any cele/hypo because they may get powercrept, also if that were the case then why are my m+ cele/hypos providing me value right now and increasing my ranks if there's this fear they will just get powercrept? gotta think intelligently about which ones you're picking and that is always the case with any decision you make.
100% believe in phraesto
Twins need ex+25?
+15 works, they're not a damage dealer but might as well take to +20 if you have reds
I'm still waiting on the resources to get the last copy of Phraesto to S+, starting to think about just putting that towards twins and finishing him after getting them to S+
I would say complete phraesto to S+ since you are so close. Then build up the twins gradually after that. I'm hoping the twins can work at lower ascension when we get to endless.
Scarlita Maxed :c
Glad i didn't listen to zeebo and instead
I pull for the twins 😅
Huh? Puzzles also saying to pull for the twins...
@@snake8534 that's what I meant. In the last vid zeebo said he gonna skip twin and if you r an f2p player don't pull for the twin
@@CatturdDaily ah right, was confused by how you had written it. No worries.
@@CatturdDaily it's weird for zeebo to recommend skipping the twins though. I slightly disagree with puzzle tho and I'd say at least S or S+ phraesto before going on to the twins
I called this Harak snafu as soon as he came out. I just knew it was a money grab.
When I first found out about the eating own heroes mechanic I really was not expecting him to be good for dream realm, but he ended up dominating. I think the thing with harak is he is the best and probably always will be at specific bosses, such as summoning bosses or where you need to move to dispell debuffs like necrodrakon. But in regular bosses it's harder for him to compete
Harak can always rise next season be patient
TLDR: CLICK READ MORE 👇👇👇
Harak is not so good this season (only good for plague creeper, his 2 other best bosses got removed so don't worry if you invested in him)
n1 pick - Twins S+
n2 pick - Phraesto M+ ideally S+
n3 pick - Reinier M+
F2P players can stop here
n4 pick - Talene M+ ideally S+
n5 pick - Harak M+ ideally S+
Competitive F2P or low/mid spenders stop here
n6 pick - Dunlingr
n7 pick - Scarlita
n8 pick - Dionel
n9 pick - Berial
Phraesto S+!!! Also, if you have already started on phraesto finish him to S+ EX+20 before switching to twins. Make use of 1 copy twins where possible.
There's no point in bringing Harak only to M+.
For PvP you want ANY hero at S+, and in DR he is not really viable until S+ either because that's what unlocks his ult spam for high single target damage. So Harak is not worth building unless you can get him to S+.
@@Rhyffthis is true Harak only outperforms other heroes if his S+. Even S ex15 wasnt enough on DR last season
Also remember we aren’t in endless mode yet either.. so take this with a grain of salt for now
Yes, but based on the VN server testing so far: twins have been used in every endless team, phraesto in most teams as well. Reinier seeing a bit of use. Harak was best in orson & plague creeper in endless this week.