HEMA needs more Half Armour Combat! Featuring Swordshop Aegis Munitions Armour
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- Опубликовано: 14 ноя 2023
- A look into what half armour combat is, why it is fum and important, and how easily and accessible it is with the new armour release by Swordshop with their Aegis Munitions Armour!
www.swordshop.ca/product/Swor... 
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Great stuff! I am a fully armored medieval fighter but I'd love to see more of this as well. It can also absolutely be done in a medieval or renaissance context. Would love to do half harness, partisan, and rotella! Great video, thanks.
This is great! I come from full armoured combat (buhurt) and the entry is a big Problem. In our team we start with partial armour, too. So getting padding("gambeson"), a helm, gloves and leg protection in combination with some soft Torso protection, is a good transition to full metal armour.
You are doing the same with partial armour and it is great. So HEMA fencing and armoured combat get an option for a transition for each other....
Good explanation of your armour and how it works etc.
You misspelled be hurt
/j
Finally! 16 gauge AND 16th century!
I know. I'm more interested in 16th century armor than 15th century, these days.
Personally I think a synthetic half armor would be great, durable & affordable 😊
We are pushing for that too as it could be an excellent addition, options and variety are always good.
For synthetic amor you could check out mac armour
I see a lot of focus on 15th century European armor, as if that was the last great age of armor. These days, I'm more interested in the armor and combat of the 16th and early 17th century, how the armor adapted to new threats (like firearms), and how it continued to be vital, throughout this period.
I love the mask overlay! It makes the joy of armored fighting far more accessible :)
Thanks for doing this review! I ordered a set from Jay the other day as I've always wanted to get into some form of armoured combat and the price was just unbeatable. Glad to see it holds up!
I received my half-armour last night and can only echo what NIck says here in his review. Although it is an off-the-shelf armour, it has clearly been designed properly and fits me as well as if it had been custom made for my measurements. Having fought in it last night (against someone else in the same harness as well as unarmoured opponents), I can vouch that the movement in the arms is fantastic, the breastplate snugs in properly at the natural waist and when fastened properly, the weight feels to be distributed quite nicely. Yes, you get tired more quickly wearing the armour and will require assistance in putting it on and taking it off, but those are expected trade-offs. In truth, the armour affected my fencing less than some other notable pieces of gear that we all typically use in HEMA (looking at you, heavy gloves and gorget). At no time while fighting in it did the armour force me to change my techniques or even get in the way. Overall, the value for money is absolutely insane.
What kind of weapons did you use? I’m interested in this armor, but I’m not sure what kind of fencing is period appropriate
@@MaxSDSF Sideswords, basket-hilted broadsword/backsword, dussack, sword and buckler or sword and rotella shield, for examples. Longsword would be appropriate, as well. Anything that would have been used in the 16th and 17th centuries, which is quite a broad array of weapons.
Question for you- how is the sizing? I’m a little on the bigger end of a medium, so I’m concerned the small/medium might be too small on me?
@@MaxSDSF Yeah, I'm also on the larger end of the medium spectrum, and it fits me perfectly. If you are a trim/athletic medium+ build, then the medium should probably fit you perfectly. If you are heavier set, you might want to go up to the large (it can be adjusted down via the straps to fit). Hope this helps.
@@AngryArchaeologist thanks alot! Just ordered one
This has been my thing for a long time and you are right that it is a gap that hasn't been addressed by HEMA. The 'way' I fight with partial depends on what the opponent wears, to be honest, rather than what a set system suggests. Reckon the vast bulk of real opponents in most periods would have had whatever cover they'd have scraped up from battlefields. And it must be just common sense to grab whatever armour one can get. Built my own custom, modular suit over the years that can cover four (or even five) different time periods by adding or leaving out bits. This was a very interesting video. Perhaps I might find someone with partial armour locally to train with. Cool!
This looks like it'd also be good for dismounted heavy cavalry/cuirassier combat of the late 17th to 19th centuries since it's pretty close to the same coverage.
I've been wearing armor from Aegis armor for years now and they are very very comfortable and superb well priced!!! I love and only but Aegis armor for defensive needs :)))
Awesome!!! I love seeing this available for a reasonable price. Thanks for the in-depth look at it and the choices made for it.
This was excellent! You are always trying new ways to use the imagination to try expand what is being done today and to capture what sword fighting and combat might have been like. Terrific!
A Backplate is more important for mounted protection where you can't just turn to face an opponent.
Excellent review, you are making me want to get some👍👍
Awesome! Please keep us updated about possible future mask covers
really interesting ideas, thx Nick !
Sounds great thanks for posting.
Sir, just when you dare think HEMA cannot possibly get any cooler, Nick comes and makes it even more glorious!
Thank you
+][+
I love this new trend, make it a thing Tomas!
half and 3/4 armours so cool
Very interesting!
Oh, very interesting!
hey Robin isnt this very close to your infantry configuration? Maybe the jackchain isnt as encompassing as upper arms here... What do you think of this kind of half-armors for HEMA training?
Now we need a reseller in europe!
The shipping cost almost triples the cost coming to like 1.300 cad/ 880€ when it would just cost 475 cad/ 325€ without shipping :(
That’s something I have always wanted to do. Specifically with a Napoleon style cavalry cuirass, but I can’t find any option or the ones I found don’t like very good in quality and since.
I hope this takes off.
HELL YEAH!
Very interested in a off-the-shelf production model burgonet overlay, been looking for something like that for years.
Absolutely, it's a simple solution and we have a few companies working towards it. It's alkso easy to add a face plate to, if you want an enclosed helmet like a closed burgonet. I am going to design a velco in visor for this purpose soon. Hopefully we will see production models soon.
Great review, and thank you for always contacting manufaturers to get us new stuff for HEMA. How would you rate it for blunt combat simulations, like the Arcem rubber poleaxes?
No problem. The armour is definitely up to the task. I would consider it tough enough for all HEMA training. The only thing it would not be suitable for would be the sort of heavy battering with of HMB and similar. We have used outs extensively with all sorts of steel training swords and also arcem polearms.
A greatsword mobtante vsvdane bearded heavy axe could be very interesting. Both cappable of chop a head or arm, both more or less at same weight, and seemed heights and battle distances, but probably with a diferent "language" at fencing, diferent way of fencing, different sweeps etc
That's a pretty good price. I wasn't too sure about the exchange rate between pounds and Canadian dollars, but that's slightly less than I was estimating.
Any chance for a longterm review of the 5 fingered supfen glove soon?
Can you guys do a fencing video of a dussack vs cutlass please
YES! Fucking thank you, someone finally said it
Do you mind if I ask where you got that Mary Rose style basket hilt in the background?
I bought it from the widow of a fellow HEMA fencer after his death and no details came with it sadly. Nobody seems to recognise it. Armourclass make them though if you are after one. Not on their website but I have seen customs made by them, and had a similiar type made by them in the past.
I love Knight Errants' series on helmets for the poorer soldier. Seeing things like cheap kettle hats with eye holes on the brim, and brigandine helmets, combined with other cheaper armors kind of creates this interesting vibe of what a cheaper pikeman or billman/halberdier from the common stock might have looked and acted like.
Certainly, sergeants and aristocratic officers ended up dominanting the military world, and the idea of a middle class soldier with half-way decent kit did eventually become the standard that still holds to this day.
But just like how there is a fascination with guerilla fighters in the modern world, and pirates/gunslingers from history, it can be really interesting to see how the guys who wouldn't be at the front blocking arrows in super nice armor might have looked and fought.
What are your thoughts on this armor for two handed swords and polearms? Mobility wise. Are the arm holes cut in enough to not impede arm movement?
We have done some halberd and greatsword stuff in them and it was just fine. Not tried any longsword with it.
By the 16th century they were using properly heat treated steel. An 18ga or even 20ga breastplate made out of 4130 or 1050 and heated properly will weight only a few pounds but still resist dents better than the one he's wearing now. 4130 is an alloy and common enough to be cheap. 1050 is historically correct as it's just plain steel.
what are those Trousers with multicolor called and did 16th Century Soldiers actually wear them?
Pluderhose, and yes they were all the rage for a good while among both civilians and soldiers.
Would a brigandine be suitable? I think some of them are pretty reasonable and don't require extensive tailoring
There are not any specific rules here, it is down to what individual clubs and fencers want to do. Personally we would count any actual historical armour as armour yes.
I would also consider making a leather overlay for the morion helmet type, and not just the burgonet.
Yeh that is on my list to do as well, but it will require a little more figuring out because of how the morion shape needs to really go out over the back of the head, and also the broad rim will need support all around. It is all doable and hopefully I will hopefully get on it soon
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Your burgonet overlay looks awesome, btw! 😁
Ciao dove si puo trovare una maschera hema fatta in stlie 1500 1600 come la tua?
I talk about this in the video, it is an overlay which I modified. We have approached several companies about putting something similar into production, hopefully it will come in time.
Some of the issues you mentioned about full armor weren’t really issues. Full harnesses provided enough flexibility for everything you’d be expected to do and then some. Also visibility wasn’t generally an issue either by the 16th century for fully enclosed helmets, since most had visors that could be raised or buffs that could be lowered. Cost and manufacture time were the primary reason half armors were popular. Comfort also played a roll, but the men who took that into account generally had a full garniture where they could swap parts out depending on how likely they’d be in an engagement.
I like the idea, though, of more people representing the common soldier with half/partial armors. The fully armored knights, gendarmes and cuirassiers would have been such a minority of troops, a vital and powerful minority for sure, but still. It must have been truly stunning to see those fully-armored mounted warriors, though, since we are still so awed and fascinated by them, to this day.
This is fun it’s a good example of armor you can wear all the time . Sleep in it if you had too .
This question may be completely out of your bailiwick but given your martial arts background handling blades (including daggers I presume) and given the high rate of knife crime in the UK, I wonder if you have any insights into stab proof clothing or vests for the civilian that you might be able to share with us. Thanks and cheers!
I can't help you there, knives are just not something most Brits worry about. There are some hotspots in some of the largest cities, but for most part we don't see a lot of knives. The idea that Britain is such a hotspot for knife crime is very much a media moral panic and other countries using some bizarre (often entirely false) statistics for their own political gain.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Thank you very much for your reply and your perspective. Greatly appreciated. Cheers!
I've been reading a lot about the 30 years war recently (not super familiar, as an American). With all the fencing treatises we get from around the period, before and after, why we don't see more treatises with that kind of armor.
For the same reason we don't get manuals written on small unit melee combat. Martial written works msotly focus either on one on one combat, which means civilian and duelling contexts (in armour or not). Or large battle discipline, which is more about formation training that inidividual weapon skill. For this same reason there was not a single manual published in Britain on how to fight with a musket and bayonet until the early 19thc, and nothing official by the army until the mid century, despite bayonet becoming common in the late 17th century. We assum everything was systemised and thoroughly taught because of our modern perspective. In reality the soldier who wore partial armour likely never training swordsmanship in their partial armour. They drilled to be a disciplined formation, and perhaps trained at a fencing school in how to use the sword.Another equivelent here is the shield, and especially the rotella. A super common soldiers item of the 16th and early 17th century. All the manuals are about one on one fighting with them. Look to a manual menat for war, like Adam De Breen, and its then all about how to easily draw your sword and take your shield from your back, bracing for an assault and keeping order with those beside you. Nothing about the actual fight itself.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Good point. I actually forgot to finish my comment and left out the main point, but that answered it. I saw a demo by the Jamestown settlement history interpreters. The Powhatan coalition uses a lot of arrows, and instead of pike and shot, the settlers used targiteer (rodelero) and musketeers. It was really interesting. The targiteers would have a sword and shield, maybe a pistol before they went to the sword. Thee musketeers would fire over the shoulder of the targiteers and then move to the back and another would fire until they all engaged with their swords. There were no pikes. They'd all wear half armor as described, and when John Smith wrote a recommended packing list for settlers, he included "light armor" which may have meant half armor or cheap armor.
Modified fencing breastplates could fit the chest, and modified gloves could be made into shoulder armor.
It's an interesting idea, but I find it really hard to implement in a meaningful way, due to additional difficulty in judging. Simple in-group/in-club sparring is ok, you can simply self-judge (which can also create problems), but on competative'ish level I find it to be hard to judge a valid cut due to additional noise (both literal and figural) created by armor.
If we can't find solution for this - it will be just a gimmick of several clubs and not a space for meaningful and observable self-improvement (which is a large motivation for a lot of people).
It's not really built for competition, so not an issue. The tournament scene is just one small part of HEMA. This armour is for so much of the other parts. But ultmately it is a little specialist because not everyone is interested in armoured combat of any kind, but that's fine.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing makes sense.
I was talking about judging because, as we can see, it's important for a weapon(/weapon set/tradition/etc)'s popularity to have a competitive element. It drives more people to try "the thing" out. And form quantity of people cometh a lot of good stuff (better equipment, easier to find study partners, etc). It also may have a drawbacks, but this reply is already too long.
I may be wrong, of course. So, if there is something to comment on, I'd be glad to be corrected.
I hope you guys are alright. I'm missing the content.
We are, I (Nick) suffered a bad back injury last Autumn and only now am I close to fully recovered. It wasn't caused by fencing but massively limited what i could do for many months. I am now 95% recovered and back to all regular training and sparring. I hope to get back to making videos next week.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Great news on the content side, and while a back injury is always bad (moreover when it's serious), I'm glad to hear that you are close to a full recovery. 👍
Why not MacArmour CZ? Cheaper, similar set of items.
They don't do anything quite equivelent. The chest peice they sell is intended as protection for under a fencing jacket. In theory you could wear it on the outside but it has no faulds nor tassets and so has a very small amount of coverage compared to the historical armour represented here. The pauldrons they do are roughly similar. It certainly isn't cheaper. A set of pauldrons and that under jacket chest plate would work out the same price as this steel set, despite not having the faulds nor tassets.
I'm not against plastic armours, but I do far prefer having something that more accurately represents the real thing in style, cut, coverage, weight etc, especially when it can be had for the same price. On top of that its so much easier for people to understand what is being treated as armour when it looks like armour, and sounds like armour when hit. Whereas black plastic armour can easily be mistaken for the protective kit we wear for unarmoured fencing. If the plastic armour looked more like the real deal both in overall style and material appearance that woudl help a lot and could be useful too. Though having access to the real deal steel for the same price is simply epic.
$350 USD is not a bad price.
IMHO, definetly needs an european supplier at a similar production price for this to catch on.
I agree, as shipping to Europe from North America is prohibitively high, especially for heavy packages.
as if the hobby itself wasn't expensive enough
The beauty of this is it is entirely optional. As when these half armours were worn, soldiers wore anything from no armour to rather a lot and it can all face eac other with the advantages and disadvantages that each setup has.
Would be far preferable if heat treated.
It's not needed and only adds to rthe cost. Also, it is often more useful for off the shelf armours to not be heat treated so that they can be shaped a little to the individual. 16 guage is perfect for HEMA, doesn't take damage, is of a goo accurate weight and cost is low.
I wish I wasn't poor nd autistic cuz then I would totally do hema
Lots of us Nd's in HEMA, I assure you. I'm ADHD and autistic myself and I find it incredibly good for me. It's improved my focus, helped immensely with my ability to regulate my emotions and a fantastic outlet and healthy way to work through the frustrations my life and brain constantly throw at me. I know it's a little hard to afford, I was and still am on the poor side too but if you can find a way, I'd strongly encourage you to do it
Do you think it’s would’ve been common to wear this armour on the march? I remember reading one reason the macedonians were so effective is because they carried their kit with them, reducing the size of their baggage. I feel like the same would applied to the european armies using half armour too
Yes absolutely, common munitions soldiers armours were commonly worn whilst marching.