This is the most authentic video I have watched about sleep. I have suffered maintenance insomnia for almost 8 years. Always waking up tired. Tried medication but all in vain. Hearing that some one out there has been through the same and overcome by knowing that there's nothing I can do to sleep better is so liberating. My first time to watch coach Daniel but I must say, Thank you
Alina is so thoughtful and shares her learnings so generously it’s something to celebrate and hold onto. I watch her channel and the videos that you have her on like this one and I’m so hopeful that someday I won’t think about sleep and just sleep. I am getting there. Thank you Daniel and Alina for your youtube channels, your writings and for sharing your insights and recovery with the world.
This is a really great episode! Even some of my "safety" thoughts, started becoming more and more sleep efforts. like when I would say "Wakefulness is not a threat," and I kept going to that, it actually hindered me! Wow. It really is all about letting go and releasing any efforts and trying!
It's funny, every single guest feels like they are telling my experience. Like I'm listening to my own story. Thanks for sharing Ali! Another amazing video. onto the next 🤘
your videos gave me more peace and understanding, especially when after 3 days without sleep I didn't feel tired at all. I still have terrible thoughts at night that I can't cope with, e.g. do I always see darkness when I close my eyes? Are these white spots always there when your eyes are closed? I know so many things about sleep and it all just gets more difficult. Has this shaken me? Is this normal? Was it really a dream or maybe I will never sleep again. or maybe it's a light dream or just the thought of a dream and not a dream. It's so tiring to have these thoughts when I'm lying in bed at night.How I wish I could never think about sleep again
Just wanted to say thank you again, I've had an entire good week of sleep all because of your channel and reading your book (Set it and Forget It) , which I'm reading slowly as you advised. It was this episode that started me drinking green caffeinated tea in the morning, prior i had refused anything that had a trace of caffeine in all day for the last 6 years. Its my sincere hope and pray that the CBT-I medical professionals take note.
Marcy, you’ve been so very supportive, this means so much 🙂 And I’m soo glad the channel and book have been helpful. One day, we will make a difference in the sleep universe for sure!
I don't usually watch these longer videos, but i watched this one all the way to the end. I like her harsh reality of "there's nothing you can do!" Even putting into practice the insights of this channel have become counter efforts for me. I also like that she acknowledged the physical pain sensations of sleeplessness. Also that general anxiety is easier to deal with than insomnia because in the day time, you can work through your thoughts and go on with your day, but at night, it can feeling much more like a trap. 5 ⭐
Wow! This is so insightful . Like her I’m an over-thinker. My thoughts and questions 1. There is nothing you can do to sleep. But isn’t there something you can do if your insomnia is caused by health issue (pain or sleep apnea)? 2. Sleep is like breathing, is a great analogy but for those with asthma they use inhalers. But I get it . 3. Feelings/sensations always end is extremely helpful concept. She said something early in video, when an unpleasant sleep thought occurs she actually smiles . That actually helped me last night. 4. People with insomnia actually sleep more than they realize is me, my husband tells me I was sleeping when I would have sworn I was up. Question: do you recommend sleep trackers you can wear on your wrist to monitor the length and quality of your sleep?
So glad it made sense 🙂! 1. I think they key here is to look at the difference between insomnia and sleep disruption. I would argue insomnia cannot be caused by a health issue. Let’s look: It’s true that things like noise, hormone levels, alcohol, withdrawals, medications, side effects and thousands of circumstances can cause sleep disruption. But this is totally different from insomnia. And here is how you can tell one from the other: Sleep disruption is obvious. I was binge drinking and slept poorly. My husband snores like crazy and that’s annoying. The reason for not sleeping well is clear so there’s (1) no pondering/wondering/questioning/researching and (2) no fear or anxiety. Insomnia on the other hand is when there’s an ongoing struggle and it’s not clear that it’s the fear of not sleeping that’s driving the trouble. Therefore there are many questions as for why there’s no or choppy sleep, there’s researching and many theories, there’s trying things to sleep more. There are many teaching points here by the main ones are that the sleep disruption caused by an endless number of circumstances is real, but it’s not self-perpetuating. It stops when circumstances change. And if circumstances don’t change, then the sleep disruption will be at the level where it’s expected. Insomnia on the other hand ends when there’s understanding and clarity and you know nothing is wrong with you and there’s no more fear. Now here’s the thing: when it’s difficult to tell if we have sleep disruption or insomnia, it can seem important to figure out which it is. And this in itself can lead to lots of struggle. In reality, it isn’t important because both call for the same: they are both an invitation to okness. If we have a sleep disruption then this is an inevitable consequence of circumstances we cannot change. A call for no action. If we have insomnia then this is a surface manifestation of fear and it’s driven by the things we do to escape this fear. A call for no action. 2. Yes, one can have constricted airways but - the ability to breathe as in the circuits in the brain that make sure we automatically breathe, they’re unaffected by this. Now as for trackers, I think it’s often so helpful to go the opposite direction! Because keeping track, this is part of attempting to monitor and control something that gets more and more slippery the more we try to monitor and control it!
Fantastic episode! A lot of what was mentioned resonates with me. I am doing great and feel like my sleep is improving daily - its not perfect everyday but it no longer bothers me. I'm still working on things and know I'm almost there. I am trained in CBT for anxiety which has helped me a lot along side your books and videos. Funny I refer to your videos a lot when working with clients and even friends. I am so fascinated with CBT and neuroplasticity which has served me personally and professionally. Would love to one day get certified in CBT- I in your program (with a twist in your program which removes some of the traditional concepts that feed into insomnia). Daniel you helped me a lot in the summer of 2020 (a month through your sleep app) and with ongoing views of your podcasts (I get excited each time). Keep up the podcasts - love them! Thanks Despina
Despina! Thanks so much for all the support and wasn’t it a wonderful episode?! It’s truly thanks to this community that I’ve learned so much and its comments like yours that being so much value 🙏😁 “it no longer bothers me” - I am always so very happy when I read this. To me it’s really what gives us freedom, not that we sleep certain amount every night but that when we don’t it doesn’t bother us. This is thanks to all your work and courage so well done!! And you know, I think someone who has gone through this journey themselves truly can make a difference in someone else’s life, whether you certify with this school or not I know you’re an ambassador out there making a dent in the sleep world 😊!!
Hi Daniel, What Ali said really resonated with me: I too was suffering horribly from anxiety induced insomnia this spring into summer, but I got your book and also the Sleep School book in late May and that was the beginning of things improving (by July I was sleeping 7 hours a night). Like Ali, things had been going fine, and even if I had a poor night, I shook it off as just a one time thing and then would be ok. But…now I’m here because I’ve begun to relapse and fall down the rabbit hole again and don’t want to fall any further. This past weekend with the time change I had a mediocre night of sleep, which I shook off as normal, but then Sunday night it took forever to fall asleep too and Monday, even though I was exhausted, I struggled as well (and then woke up in the middle of the night and that was it). This has continued the last two nights and even though I’m able to stay mostly calm in the wakefulness, I can feel this building anxiety and hyper arousal around sleep which had all but gone away. Now here I am feeling defeated (I had gotten to such a great place but here I am again). Do you have any guidance? This latest bout with insomnia is so recent, only a few nights, but I want to move on without falling further and further down the rabbit hole. Thanks for your response!!
Hi Emily, So glad you have seen things get easier and that what Alina said resonated. And thanks for all the support! It’s tricky but do check the speed bump playlist. Basically it boils down to resistance. Insomnia really is a cycle of resistance. There can be for example this random thought “what if I don’t sleep tonight again” and then some resistance to the unpleasant thought. You don’t want this thought or the anxiety it creates. Because of the resistance, the brain wants to make sure you really hear this important warning signal it thinks you need and it pushes the thought more and then there’s some more resistance. More resistance becomes more intense thoughts and feelings and less sleep. And then of course the thought “what if I don’t sleep tonight again?” happens again. Now, when you’ve slept better, it was because you gave up on resistance, and here’s the teaching point… “I want to move on without falling further and further down the rabbit hole” IS that resistance. It’s paradoxical but when you let it sink in, things get easier and easier. Hang in there!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you! I’ll definitely check out the Speed bump playlist. One other quick question: in the Roadmap to Insomnia Immunity, it references the Trouble and Desire model as an action item and I can’t find this anywhere (I flipped through Set it and forget it but couldn’t find it in there). Can you please let me know where I I can find that?
Anytime! And yes absolutely, this model is in This is Natto (book) but also here in the This is Natto playlist! ruclips.net/video/MTr_eDeIiLY/видео.html
What an amazing episode Daniel!! Ali is so well educated on sleep and anxiety which personally I think do go together.love these episodes with different guests. Maybe I’ll come on one of these day’s 🤔
It’s interesting that she mentions a memory of struggling that became a traumatic event. The wound from that is real. I’m currently really struggling with it. When we went on a family vacation, my husband snored so loud and I couldn’t sleep both nights and since then whenever I hear him snoring, it creates this reaction in my body because I guess I have never never gotten over those traumatic night. And it keeps me awake for hours until he stops snoring. Sometimes, by the time he stops snoring, my body is all riled up, and I can’t fall asleep.
Hi Rachel, I think insomnia really can be described as a struggle where the fear of something we went through that felt traumatic keeps us trying to prevent it from happening again. And unfortunately those attempts to try to prevent it become the efforts that keep us awake and keep the wounds from healing.. But just seeing that it’s not the snoring but the fear that we won’t sleep with snoring nearby is what is behind the struggle.. it can help much
This all resonates with me. I have had this 26 years. This drive to fix it is insatiable. Hard to release it. It's very interesting. Other sleep programs like re: sleep don't address the anxiety around sleep which is the most difficult aspect. Very helpful video.
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Great interview. Gave me new insights. I begin to think more and more that the only way is the no attachment to the outcome and education. I am a thinker too so I want to understand all of it. I just remembered that in the past sometimes I deliberatly set my alarm early on a free day because I enjoyed the feeling of being in bed and not to have to get up. And now I think of sleep all the time. And all the what ifs...I just want to enjoy my day and let go of that I cannot influence. I get the counter efforts. Have them too. Problem I have is when I wake up in the early morning I have a hard time falling back asleep. Then I think about that it doesnt matter and cannot harm me etc. But thats also the effort and attachment. Because I still do care to much I guess. I will look into the natto book. Last time I checked it was not yet available in the netherlands. Thanks for the interview.
Hi Karin, and thanks much for the support. And you know, you’re really starting to understand sleep, which is a foundation! Without this it’s really difficult to see things get better. And exactly like you say, all the knowledge paradoxically can come to stand in your way. Because at some point it’s all about being less attached... This is Natto should be available in the Netherlands through Amazon. If you don’t see it let me know, I think it can help. Thanks again for the support 😁
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thanks for the aswer. I think this is whats happening. Some of the knowledge is paradoxically becomming a counter effort. I think i am at a point where I should let things go by enjoying things because I still spend much time looking at video's and reading. I do little for myself that is not sleeprelated. And you are right. It is available at Amazone. I will order it. Looking forward to reading it. Have a great weekend!
Great Episode! I am happy to see someone like me overcome this struggle. But I am wondering how long does it take for her to fall asleep when in her good nights. Because it takes me 1-2 hour to fall asleep.
Thanks Agamyrat! I know that nowadays, it doesn’t take much time at all and she doesn’t keep track of it. I know this because I work with Alina all the time! I’m glad you found this episode and saw that someone in a similar situation to yourself can leave the struggle 🙂
It takes me too 1-2 hours but thereafter I am asleep .Sometimes it gets my angry but I remember myself before the same.But I wasnt having problem with that 😅😅😅
Greetings Dr. Daniel, currently struggling with insomnia for almost 6 months. Speaking of sleep efforts, would you consider CBT and/or ACT sleep efforts?
Hi there! I’d say it’s all about intent, if we say “I have to get out of bed when awake so I make my brain associate bed with sleep so I sleep” OR “I have to stay in bed so my brain knows it’s safe there so I sleep” - that’s effort there. But if we approach CBT or ACT as means of self exploration, then there’s no effort there.
but is it okay to lie in bed in the day for 1 or 2 hours when you are tired? because they say that we have not lie in bed and use the hed only for sleep but that is also an effort@@thesleepcoachschool8192
So I feel like I learned about insomnia and sleep and efforts etc. and it feels like my mind learned so much and i understand it but how do I actually do it? Feels like my mind is going 10000 miles an hour with all the information. It seems more confusing than what it really is.. What are some key things that I can take away? To just embrace wakefulness?
Thank you very much for the video! It helped my anxiety a bit. Should I also just keep watching TV until I go to bed if that’s what I want to the most? Since turning it off would be an effort that I make to produce melatonin and be able to sleep?
Thanks for your comment!! Just a quick heads-up: we're hosting live Q&A sessions most weeks and we'd love for you to join us! It's a great chance to ask questions, share insights, and connect with others in the community.
Considering she states she began to suffer with insomnia in January, she has made a remarkable quick recovery. Is it common to be fully recovered within a year? I fully believe that this “fearless method” or more simply changing your perception is the key, however getting to this point I imagine can take a very long time especially for individuals who have negative associations with bedtime deeply engrained within them. I guess sleep anxiety can become a habit like anything and habits are hard to break. On a lighter note, great video👍
Hi Jake and thanks so much for this comment. You know, insomnia can mean anything from someone who’ve had a scare and trouble sleeping for two weeks to someone who’s been struggling for decades! And for Ali, it was January 2020 so it was about a year between her starting to have trouble and leaving that struggle behind. I want to say that it all depends on how strong the “defense” is. When the brain is really convinced there’s something wrong that must be taken care of, when there are deeply entrenched thoughts like this, it takes longer. If the thoughts are more fleeting, it takes less time... just like you said! And totally agree about perceptions and habits... happy you liked it Jake and thanks for the support 😊
Hi Jake, this is Ali. I think the length of insomnia does not affect the speed of the recovery, at least the difference might be insignificant. I would assume that for those who struggled longer the reason might be that they didn't have the right resources and support at times when they really needed it. And Daniel's work helps speed it up a lot. I think once you get on this path (no matter how many years before you struggled), the progress spirals up. It also depends what you mean by a full recovery. For me sleep stoped being a topic I need to solve or improve. And as weird as it sounds, I don't really think of myself as recovered because I realised that insomnia is not an illness it's more like a "boogie man" I once believed in, but it doesn't exist. So there isn't really what to recover from, you know what I mean? :) I'm sure that the more ups and downs you have along the way the closer you are to the real unattachment to sleep, when you know that ability to sleep is built in you and you trust this without doing or thinking a thing. I am not scared of "bad" nights. I think I have one - two nights every month when I get up and read or watch something, but the rest of the nights I just go to bed and the next thing it is morning. I can wake up early or sleep in, or have a nap during the day or drink coffee at 6pm - and it won't make any difference. And I am 100% sure that each and everyone on that path is going to get there eventually :)
@@alinah.5140 such a great way to say that you didn't recover from insomnia because it is not a disease. That it is more like a boogieman. Never thought of it that way.
Coach Daniel, I haven't been sleeping but like 2 hrs 3 hrs on off and I'm so anxious about it I start to feel so terrible without sleep and mentally losing it. And then I can't sleep because I'm scared help me 😢😢😢
Hang in there, just knowing and understanding that it’s fear keeping us awake… that’s a big big step from thinking something like a hormonal problem or we are missing some vitamin, there’s already clarity which is so helpful. I think if you just spend a little time here learning and seeing that everyone who left the struggle once were in this place… things will get easier, rooting for you
Hi Daniel, thank you for replying to my posts. I have a question because I’ m confused a bit. So I tried getting up at night and reading and it worked really well. I went back to sleep. That was early night. But I often wake up early around 4-5 and the I don’t feel like getting up so I decide to stay in bed and do the breathing exercise. I saw your interview with Nina in which she says, just do nothing. My question is, I read Sasha’s book as well and she describes this one relaxation technique which she says is very powerful. Normally as I said when I’m in bed I do the breathing and that’s it. But she goes further and says to imagine I am the breathing or even the fear! So I’m confused because first I hear from Nina to do nothing and then from Saha no imagine that I’m the fear. I’m scared I will have more fear. But I tink what Nina means is give fear nothing, meaning don’t give it more power, but will it not become stronger if I say to myself that I am that fear?! What do I do? I’m confused now. Since I started to follow Nina and thought of the fear as a programme it went better but I’m confused today. I also watched an episode in which you say the only winning move is not to play, but imagining that I’m fear is not playing the game is it? If I imagine I am the fear, I will try to befriend it and it should lose its power right. That’s why I thought maybe this technique would be good for the moments when I’m in bed in the early hours. Or should I rather get up. When I got up two days ago and read something, I went back to bed and fell asleep immediately.
Anytime Kasia, thanks for being here. It’s a little tricky to answer to this longer comment in a meaningful way. You can either just specify the question in another comment or you can send this or any other message to open class where we can go into more detail. www.thesleepcoachschool.com/have-questions Thanks!!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 maybe I could ask you this, during the day I have this tingling sensation and I wonder if I have to welcome it, or maybe it’s too much of a sleep effort. Today I didn’t do it, I know about it but I didn’t do anything. Is it just not to pay any attention to it? What do I have to do during the day with such sensations and this anxious feeling that I know something is in my head. You said abandon the game and the only winning move is not to play, that’s why I wonder, is it the best not to pay any attention, or not welcome any anxiety and tingling and leave it and do as if it’s not there, this pretending what Nina describes?
Hi Kasia, I think it’s all about intent. If we welcome something so that it will go away, then that’s not truly welcoming. If we try to ignore something so it goes away, this also can lead to some struggle. But if we welcome discomfort and truly are willing to experience it, or if we pay little attention because it doesn’t feel like it needs attention… then in both cases we are willing to experience it and then the message is heard. When the message is hear then there’s no more any need for the brain to send the message!
Hi! Trying to help my husband sleep - he can't sleep until 3-4am. What should I do? He says he should use ambien to "get back on track". What should I do?
Hi Dwitiyah, welcome to the channel. I’m sorry to hear your husband has trouble sleeping, but glad you found the education here. I think it can be really helpful to learn a bit by spending some time here. When you see that your husband has something very common, then it will not worry you as much and you can then, by just being kind and gentle with him, keep from doing what many spouses (with the best intentions!) do - suggest supplements or remedies that just cause more confusion and trouble! Now, the key insight with insomnia is that you can’t force sleep. The more you try the less you sleep. Similarly, we can’t force someone to change their opinion or their thoughts. So I would say if your husband is very much set on going in a certain direction, then it’s possible that the more you try to convince him that another direction is better, the more he will want to stick to his plan. The person struggling has to be ready, willing to do some learning and have that courage within to leave the struggle. And by the way, many many many people have done well after being on Ambien! The path of least pressure is always a nice one! Now, if you (or him!) want to start learning, these are great places to start: This is natto - the perfect place to start learning! ruclips.net/p/PL6RQ1GS7B1cik8Xr8iVdxmKB9FYieevYj Success stories - if you need hope and inspiration, this is for you. ruclips.net/p/PL6RQ1GS7B1cj68v9hdoXYv_fpOR65oI3U Hope this helps and stay in touch!!
Hey Daniel ❤! If you are afraid of monitoring if you sleep and waiting for sleep to come ,just do the opposite ? Willing to experiecing that ? Because its my main problem ,i do sleep after but i notice if i have to wake up early i am anxious because the little hours i have for sleep and i monitor very much.This is not everyday because i am working mostly late so i sleep fine after 1-2 hours
Hello! I’d say that yes, anytime we are okay with something, it actually helps. Even sleep monitoring, because if we think “this is a problem” our brain will monitor it. And fear too, when we are willing to experience it, it becomes less and less bothersome
I suffer with chronic health issues, sinusitis and anxiety, and general debility from autoimmune disease, it effects my ability to sleep, how to I manage to sleep and be hyper arroused when battling chronic health symptoms that create major discomfort and pain
Hi Scarlett. Thank you for sharing this and I’m sorry to hear of all these struggles. I would say this, for many people there are some circumstances that make it more difficult to sleep. Maybe it is that someone is elderly and has arthritis, maybe that someone has financial problems, there are often circumstances that makes it more difficult. The thing is that when we focus on the circumstances that we have no control over come on and we think of them as the reason we can’t sleep, then we feel this empowered and creates a lot of frustration that makes sleep more difficult! When we on the other hand acknowledge that there are circumstances that makes it more difficult but we can’t do anything about them, then that focus shifts. This frees us up to sleep as well as we can given the circumstances. Hope this helps and hang in there Scarlett!!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you,Daniel. Would love an episode on health triggers and sleep, and letting go when dealing with health issues, and overcoming fear of dying in sleep for example.
Hi Scarlett, thanks for this! The best episodes are really the ones suggested from the community. I’m noting this to my short list of topics. You can also always send questions via the website. Best!
Oh my. Here's my story with no happy ending. I'm a 24 years old girl suffering from insomnia for about 9 years. Using Seroquel(Quetiapine) so that I can sleep. If there is no seroquel then there is no such a thing sleep. Not that I cannot, but because I don't feel sleepy if I don't take my meds for days over days. Once I tried to get off my pills, I found myself sleepless for 8 days with no sleep at all. What a misery I've been going through. Do I have to use them until the end of my life? What do you think?
Hi Asli, Sorry to hear how much you’re struggling, but glad you found the channel. There’s much here that I hope will be really helpful. I want to share some words on why trying not to take sleep medications is so tricky: A lot of people try to come off the medication but end up going back on it. This really happens mostly because they tried to come off. What do I mean by that? Well I mean they considered it a trial! When you come off the medication or a sleeping pill and think of it as an experiment, you think “Let me see if I can sleep without this” then you have started a trial. And whenever you are doing something as a trial, you want to keep track of how well you’re doing. So you go to bed without taking the pill, and you wonder what will happen. After 30 minutes you become a little bit worried, after one hour you think oh my gosh I’m not gonna sleep at all. But you decide to keep going and you sleep a little bit at night. But you decide to keep going with the trial. After four sleepless nights, having tried to go without the pill, you decide it’s not working and you go back on the pill. Then it seems for sure like you cannot sleep without it. But what actually happened is that it was the act of self monitoring and the trialing/experiment that was the reason you didn’t sleep! We sleep really well when we don’t give it too much attention, and when we are trying to get off a medication, it’s very hard not to give it extra attention to see how we are doing. Now, when you understand things like the above, when you see that delegation (thinking “the medication will take care of my sleep”) is the reason sleep medications “work” and not the chemicals inside, then you start seeing the path to sleeping well without struggling. So no I don’t thing anyone has to take sleep pills. It’s not an easy path to no struggle, but anyone willing to learn and ready to face fear will get there!!
So glad you’re here and you know we recently talked about this, I think this will be a nice answer to your question! Yes you CAN! Here is how...(Insomnia Insight #542 ) ruclips.net/video/EfFhfPrmRbs/видео.html
I have kept a sleep diary for a number of years. It is simply an x for nights I didn't sleep well or a checkmark for nights I did sleep well. I wonder if I should stop that?
I think you’re onto something that can help sooo much, leaving the attempts to have control. As you said, it’s none of my business just like let’s say digestion or nerve conduction 🙂
Hello Ali, Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I think I’m in the same situation as you. I like to give up all the tricks because I have so many speed bumps. But I have a question relating to that thinking: how can you calm down your anxiety when it attack you? Just think nothing or do nothing and let the bad thoughts come in?
@@truongnguyen53 Hi! Thanks for the question! You know, to me this isn't about right or wrong thoughts, or having no thoughts at all. I find it find it impossible to get rid of all thought :) It is about understanding where that anxiety comes from. Sometimes it's worth looking into that anxiety and asking yourself: what exactly am I scared of? What's the worst that can happen? And sometimes you directly see that there is actually nothing behind and you might feel better. Sometimes however, you might find yourself worrying about having a ruined day due to no sleep, or some potential health consequences. This is when it is good to test those assumptions, are they actually true? Does every sleepless night lead to the horrible day? Does every good night sleep lead to the great day? Do people with insomnia (and it's a huge number) die from insomnia? (never!) Are people with no insomnia protected against diseases just because they sleep well? (not at all!) And what you find is that these assumptions fail at the reality check. And I believe this can truly lead to feeling better, because you understand what is happening to you and why. No specific technique is needed to achieve the state of peace, understanding and clarity is enough. It is tricky, takes time and courage, and definitely not a quick-fix, but totally worth it 🙏 Hope it brings some clarity!
Hey Daniel, one girl in the comments wrote she didn’t sleep for 8 days? This is so triggering and I don’t know how to deal with that… I mean - I don’t think this is possible, actually and it never happened to me. But how can we stop comparing our story to someone else’s?
Hi Ella, You know, I also believe this isn’t possible… but having the experience and belief that we didn’t sleep for many days is very common.. And you know, I think there is this paradoxical answer to all our struggles which is to let them be. When we want to avoid something that is triggering, we think more about it and we become white sugar. When we want to forcefully try to stop ourselves from comparing to other stories, we end up spending more time comparing. So what I think helps is to just distance ourselves from our thoughts. We can just observe how the brain start comparing with somebody else’s story without judging ourselves or the brain. Just taking note of it. And when we no longer are trying to control our thoughts or our emotions, things just become so peaceful 🙂
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Your answers are always SO on point and helpful, I am so so grateful for all the work you do!!! You honestly give me so much hope. Thank you, it means the world!🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Hi Daniel and Alina, I have a very similar story, having good sleep and then gradually the counterproductive sleep efforts creep in without me realising...I feel like I have no control over that at times. I have a question - on days when I don’t think about sleep at all, don’t care and don’t fear it, I’d go to bed at night with just an intention of relaxing and enjoying myself but my thoughts would start to race and then heart starts to race as well. Thoughts not even about sleep but just chaotic pointless thoughts, and I end up being awake for hours and then often wake up early with heart racing. I try to make them fleeting and just observe them but it doesn’t always work and I don’t feel comfortable in my bed as they race but also very sleepy at the same time so I don’t feel like getting out of bed but also I feel really uncomfortable at the same time. It’s annoying because i can’t see why it happens when I don’t care or think about sleep and feel relaxed before bedtime and then they just start to race when I hit the pillow...could it be deep subconscious insomnia leftovers or am I doing something wrong? On other days day I go to bed and feel very comfortable and relaxed, thoughts are pleasantly drifting but then I feel more awake after a few minutes and I don’t feel comfortable in my own mind and my bed anymore (anxiety?). I wouldn’t say it’s hypnic awareness because I don’t pay attention to my thoughts at all, just relaxing, then why does it happen if I feel good and relaxed and then suddenly it disappears for no reason?? What should I do in this case?
Hi Nina, what you are describing is something I experienced too. And I have a few thoughts on that. When you write that anxiety comes out of nowhere, even if you feel good and relaxed - this is actually our internal alarm system in action. The thing with this alarm is that it is automatic and super-fast, it gets triggered (fight or flight) even before you realize it consciously. And this has a reason - we need these super fast reactions to keep us safe in moments when we are in danger. But with sleep, there is no real danger at all, but to the alarm system it is all the same. It can get triggered by very subtle things, even by a fact that it is dark, for example. I find it helpful seeing these symptoms (racing thoughts and hartbeat) as a part of automatic alarm system that has nothing to do with the reality or truth. Once you see it not as an enemy but the feature of our brain and give it some time to pass on its own, without forcing it, then it stops having any control over you and vanishes over time. “I try to make them fleeting and just observe them” - when thoughts become too strong, it is not that easy to dismiss them, any attempts not to think will end up in more thoughts :) From my experience, if you have “what if” type of anxious thoughts about sleep, and you can’t get out of them, it is enough just to remind yourself that sleeplessness can’t harm you, that you can be OK the next day even without sleeping, and other reassuring thoughts that bring you to the place when you are OK with not sleeping. Also remember that these thoughts are a part of automatic alarm system, they aren’t the enemy, they can’t harm, it is the feature of anxious mind :) “I feel like I have no control over that at times” The truth is no one has control over their sleep, even those who sleep well. You can’t make yourself fall asleep, it happens unconsciously. It is actually letting go of control that brings you to the place where you don’t struggle with sleep anymore. I don’t know if this was helpful, let me know :)
@@alinah.5140 thank you Alina...yeah my alarm system must get triggered by very subtle things...out of nowhere, it can be really frustrating. You say to let thoughts pass And not make them go away, but what if it feels unpleasant to lie in bed while thoughts race? Befriending wakefulness and getting out of bed to do sth else would be like suppressing my alarm system by distracting myself,so then I don't let racing thoughts pass, and because I avoided them, they will come back? On the other hand if I don't feel comfortable , would it not make sense to get out and enjoy some other activity? How did you deal with it??
@@ninasimonovic6852 My approach was to choose a path of least resistance. With that in mind, there is no need to force yourself stay in bed when you are obviously frustrated, and also no need to pretend you don't feel the way you really feel. This is why distracting yourself isn't really helpful, because it becomes an effort - pretending and ignoring you feelings for the sake of controlling sleep. Befriending wakefulness is not about trying to trick your mind, it is about discovering that being awake is not that scary as it seems. So if you feel frustrated lying in bed, getting up and doing something you'd enjoy or find meaningful is a better choice. But if you find it nice and cosy while in bed (but still awake) - there is no harm in staying there, enjoying that comfort. And the cool thing I find about this path of least resistance is that you can enjoy your night while having these thoughts and feelings - overtime they vanish, 'cause you aren't resisting them. Hope this made sense :)
@@alinah.5140 hi Alina I’ve had some amazing nights of sleep lately but then suddenly one night I felt wired and too awake to fall asleep even though I went to bed feeling calm and without expectations. That night my heart just wouldn’t stop racing, after that a few more nights happened that were identical to that night. I think really surprised me because my sleep got to a point where it’s pretty much fixed as I thought. Somehow these nights were worst than I’ve had in a long time... my heart wouldn’t stop racing, I’d tell myself that I’ll be alright the best day and I genuinely believed it, I knew I don’t have to force sleep and I didn’t... but my heart raced and I felt fearful despite all the knowledge and progress I’ve had. Last night same pattern happened, I was struggling to stay awake in the evening, went to bed, heart started racing. This time I decided to not fight it and just became aware of it and let it pass naturally. But eventually I would just get sick of lying there waiting for it pass without trying, because it wouldn’t pass! It raced for hours no matter what I thought... I was feeling uncomfortable being in bed even while just being aware and observing, it didn’t make me feel any better. Am I doing something wrong? Why did I suddenly have such bad nights? I remember that’ it’s just a alarm system and it can’t harm me.. but heart raced anyway. What’s the best thing to do to move past it back to my good sleep?
I can’t seem to figure out whether I’m scared of wakefulness or the intrusive thoughts after. How can we deal with the pressure of anxiety after sleepless nights?
I would say as an amateur beginner that you should try to act normal as possible on the days after you can't sleep. Just as if you had a good night sleep. That way you teach yourself that it doesn't matter whether you are anxious or not or whether you slept well or not
How do I fix anxiety due to fear of feeling tired during the day and not getting things done... this fear keeps me up at nights. I’m so tired of being tired all the time due to lack of sleep
Aron, I’m so so saddened to read these lines… but you’ve found your way here and many many have felt this way and are now not struggling with sleep or emotions… of course check with your doctor when you’re concerned about your health, but I think there’s much here that can help… rooting for you Aron
@thesleepcoachschool8192 I have been to several doctors. They can't help as I am physically healthy. I definitely have hyperarousal and sleep anxiety. I would love to share my story someday, its a wild story.
Hi Adam! Thank you for posting this comment, I’m sure a lot of people have this question. I would say that everyone’s experience is different but insomnia really all comes from the same place. It comes from a place were being awake has become a threat and problem and is something you want to go away. And the more you want it to go away the more sticky it becomes! When someone is really afraid of being awake invite from the moment they are going to bed, they have trouble falling asleep. When someone wakes up and then is afraid of being awake then they have trouble staying asleep. But the key is really the same, the key is to learn that there is no harm that can come from being awake, that there is no threat, and then you sleep well whether you had trouble falling asleep or staying asleep from the beginning!
So getting to sleep cant be controled and even thinking beyign awaken is fine can be considered as geting yourslef into presure. Well then the only solution is to giveup or belive in god - since only the unexplainable uncontrolable solves it. And you cant do that either since that can be count as presure - wanting it to solve it itself. So it would be the best to wipe out yourr memory and not even knowing u havent slept before. Imposible task. Which creates another trauma of not solveable. So maybe the best way is to just live with the state your curently in. If u forget about u havent slept then u won. Since it cant be considered presure if u didnt even know u doing it for that reason since u dont even know u have a problem. Has to be litteraly forgetting. It cant be intentionaly hiding the truth u havent slept. It has to be literaly forgeting over time (preferebly by itself). Not sleeping is the weirdest sicknes there was. I woudltn even care to solve it if it didnt put presure on my rgith side of skull whenever am not sleepin. I bet our brain just not geting some chemicals properly setup and it cant restart itself to go to sleep if some bug protecitng it from finishing the restart.
Hi Synarus, I do think this is how our inner struggles fade, to surrender our attempts to have control… whether to god, ourselves, nothingness… it leads to peace
Yay! ALI is my coach! Looking forward to getting the mind body connected again so I get restful sleep again!
This is the most authentic video I have watched about sleep. I have suffered maintenance insomnia for almost 8 years. Always waking up tired. Tried medication but all in vain. Hearing that some one out there has been through the same and overcome by knowing that there's nothing I can do to sleep better is so liberating. My first time to watch coach Daniel but I must say, Thank you
So so glad to read this 😊
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 I am from Uganda Africa, I would like to get more help. How do I reach out?
Hi Rose, just email kathyrene@thesleepcoachschool.com, she can help with any questions you have.
Alina is so thoughtful and shares her learnings so generously it’s something to celebrate and hold onto. I watch her channel and the videos that you have her on like this one and I’m so hopeful that someday I won’t think about sleep and just sleep. I am getting there. Thank you Daniel and Alina for your youtube channels, your writings and for sharing your insights and recovery with the world.
She is super! And so is your support 😊 your willingness to learn and do some inner work will lead you there i have no doubts
This is a really great episode! Even some of my "safety" thoughts, started becoming more and more sleep efforts. like when I would say "Wakefulness is not a threat," and I kept going to that, it actually hindered me! Wow. It really is all about letting go and releasing any efforts and trying!
It is so nice to see your comments and how you see things so clearly again!!
It's funny, every single guest feels like they are telling my experience. Like I'm listening to my own story. Thanks for sharing Ali! Another amazing video. onto the next 🤘
So glad to read this Felipe! Oh and Alina is on IG, @sleeptalks.ali in case you want to follow her or say hi!
True
Same. I laugh every time too. It’s mental isn’t it. 😂❤
I agree ❤. Everyone’s story resonates with me to a tee. It’s comforting, even though insomnia is a miserable and scary experience.
your videos gave me more peace and understanding, especially when after 3 days without sleep I didn't feel tired at all. I still have terrible thoughts at night that I can't cope with, e.g. do I always see darkness when I close my eyes? Are these white spots always there when your eyes are closed? I know so many things about sleep and it all just gets more difficult. Has this shaken me? Is this normal? Was it really a dream or maybe I will never sleep again. or maybe it's a light dream or just the thought of a dream and not a dream. It's so tiring to have these thoughts when I'm lying in bed at night.How I wish I could never think about sleep again
Just wanted to say thank you again, I've had an entire good week of sleep all because of your channel and reading your book (Set it and Forget It) , which I'm reading slowly as you advised. It was this episode that started me drinking green caffeinated tea in the morning, prior i had refused anything that had a trace of caffeine in all day for the last 6 years.
Its my sincere hope and pray that the CBT-I medical professionals take note.
Marcy, you’ve been so very supportive, this means so much 🙂 And I’m soo glad the channel and book have been helpful.
One day, we will make a difference in the sleep universe for sure!
How did green tea help?
I don't usually watch these longer videos, but i watched this one all the way to the end. I like her harsh reality of "there's nothing you can do!" Even putting into practice the insights of this channel have become counter efforts for me. I also like that she acknowledged the physical pain sensations of sleeplessness. Also that general anxiety is easier to deal with than insomnia because in the day time, you can work through your thoughts and go on with your day, but at night, it can feeling much more like a trap. 5 ⭐
Jason! Alina is so amazing, and she’s lived jt… so glad this resonated and thanks so much for this comment 🤗
Every thi g seems worse at night
Wow! This is so insightful . Like her I’m an over-thinker.
My thoughts and questions
1. There is nothing you can do to sleep. But isn’t there something you can do if your insomnia is caused by health issue (pain or sleep apnea)?
2. Sleep is like breathing, is a great analogy but for those with asthma they use inhalers. But I get it .
3. Feelings/sensations always end is extremely helpful concept. She said something early in video, when an unpleasant sleep thought occurs she actually smiles . That actually helped me last night.
4. People with insomnia actually sleep more than they realize is me, my husband tells me I was sleeping when I would have sworn I was up.
Question: do you recommend sleep trackers you can wear on your wrist to monitor the length and quality of your sleep?
So glad it made sense 🙂!
1. I think they key here is to look at the difference between insomnia and sleep disruption. I would argue insomnia cannot be caused by a health issue.
Let’s look:
It’s true that things like noise, hormone levels, alcohol, withdrawals, medications, side effects and thousands of circumstances can cause sleep disruption. But this is totally different from insomnia. And here is how you can tell one from the other:
Sleep disruption is obvious. I was binge drinking and slept poorly. My husband snores like crazy and that’s annoying. The reason for not sleeping well is clear so there’s (1) no pondering/wondering/questioning/researching and (2) no fear or anxiety.
Insomnia on the other hand is when there’s an ongoing struggle and it’s not clear that it’s the fear of not sleeping that’s driving the trouble. Therefore there are many questions as for why there’s no or choppy sleep, there’s researching and many theories, there’s trying things to sleep more.
There are many teaching points here by the main ones are that the sleep disruption caused by an endless number of circumstances is real, but it’s not self-perpetuating. It stops when circumstances change. And if circumstances don’t change, then the sleep disruption will be at the level where it’s expected.
Insomnia on the other hand ends when there’s understanding and clarity and you know nothing is wrong with you and there’s no more fear.
Now here’s the thing: when it’s difficult to tell if we have sleep disruption or insomnia, it can seem important to figure out which it is. And this in itself can lead to lots of struggle.
In reality, it isn’t important because both call for the same: they are both an invitation to okness.
If we have a sleep disruption then this is an inevitable consequence of circumstances we cannot change. A call for no action.
If we have insomnia then this is a surface manifestation of fear and it’s driven by the things we do to escape this fear. A call for no action.
2. Yes, one can have constricted airways but - the ability to breathe as in the circuits in the brain that make sure we automatically breathe, they’re unaffected by this.
Now as for trackers, I think it’s often so helpful to go the opposite direction! Because keeping track, this is part of attempting to monitor and control something that gets more and more slippery the more we try to monitor and control it!
Fantastic episode! A lot of what was mentioned resonates with me. I am doing great and feel like my sleep is improving daily - its not perfect everyday but it no longer bothers me. I'm still working on things and know I'm almost there. I am trained in CBT for anxiety which has helped me a lot along side your books and videos. Funny I refer to your videos a lot when working with clients and even friends. I am so fascinated with CBT and neuroplasticity which has served me personally and professionally. Would love to one day get certified in CBT- I in your program (with a twist in your program which removes some of the traditional concepts that feed into insomnia). Daniel you helped me a lot in the summer of 2020 (a month through your sleep app) and with ongoing views of your podcasts (I get excited each time). Keep up the podcasts - love them! Thanks Despina
Despina! Thanks so much for all the support and wasn’t it a wonderful episode?! It’s truly thanks to this community that I’ve learned so much and its comments like yours that being so much value 🙏😁
“it no longer bothers me” - I am always so very happy when I read this. To me it’s really what gives us freedom, not that we sleep certain amount every night but that when we don’t it doesn’t bother us. This is thanks to all your work and courage so well done!!
And you know, I think someone who has gone through this journey themselves truly can make a difference in someone else’s life, whether you certify with this school or not I know you’re an ambassador out there making a dent in the sleep world 😊!!
Hi Daniel,
What Ali said really resonated with me: I too was suffering horribly from anxiety induced insomnia this spring into summer, but I got your book and also the Sleep School book in late May and that was the beginning of things improving (by July I was sleeping 7 hours a night). Like Ali, things had been going fine, and even if I had a poor night, I shook it off as just a one time thing and then would be ok.
But…now I’m here because I’ve begun to relapse and fall down the rabbit hole again and don’t want to fall any further. This past weekend with the time change I had a mediocre night of sleep, which I shook off as normal, but then Sunday night it took forever to fall asleep too and Monday, even though I was exhausted, I struggled as well (and then woke up in the middle of the night and that was it). This has continued the last two nights and even though I’m able to stay mostly calm in the wakefulness, I can feel this building anxiety and hyper arousal around sleep which had all but gone away. Now here I am feeling defeated (I had gotten to such a great place but here I am again). Do you have any guidance? This latest bout with insomnia is so recent, only a few nights, but I want to move on without falling further and further down the rabbit hole. Thanks for your response!!
Hi Emily,
So glad you have seen things get easier and that what Alina said resonated. And thanks for all the support!
It’s tricky but do check the speed bump playlist. Basically it boils down to resistance.
Insomnia really is a cycle of resistance. There can be for example this random thought “what if I don’t sleep tonight again” and then some resistance to the unpleasant thought. You don’t want this thought or the anxiety it creates. Because of the resistance, the brain wants to make sure you really hear this important warning signal it thinks you need and it pushes the thought more and then there’s some more resistance.
More resistance becomes more intense thoughts and feelings and less sleep. And then of course the thought “what if I don’t sleep tonight again?” happens again.
Now, when you’ve slept better, it was because you gave up on resistance, and here’s the teaching point… “I want to move on without falling further and further down the rabbit hole” IS that resistance.
It’s paradoxical but when you let it sink in, things get easier and easier. Hang in there!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you! I’ll definitely check out the Speed bump playlist. One other quick question: in the Roadmap to Insomnia Immunity, it references the Trouble and Desire model as an action item and I can’t find this anywhere (I flipped through Set it and forget it but couldn’t find it in there). Can you please let me know where I I can find that?
Anytime! And yes absolutely, this model is in This is Natto (book) but also here in the This is Natto playlist!
ruclips.net/video/MTr_eDeIiLY/видео.html
What an amazing episode Daniel!! Ali is so well educated on sleep and anxiety which personally I think do go together.love these episodes with different guests.
Maybe I’ll come on one of these day’s 🤔
SO helpful! Another over-thinker. Thank you!
It’s interesting that she mentions a memory of struggling that became a traumatic event. The wound from that is real. I’m currently really struggling with it. When we went on a family vacation, my husband snored so loud and I couldn’t sleep both nights and since then whenever I hear him snoring, it creates this reaction in my body because I guess I have never never gotten over those traumatic night. And it keeps me awake for hours until he stops snoring.
Sometimes, by the time he stops snoring, my body is all riled up, and I can’t fall asleep.
Hi Rachel, I think insomnia really can be described as a struggle where the fear of something we went through that felt traumatic keeps us trying to prevent it from happening again. And unfortunately those attempts to try to prevent it become the efforts that keep us awake and keep the wounds from healing..
But just seeing that it’s not the snoring but the fear that we won’t sleep with snoring nearby is what is behind the struggle.. it can help much
Woah...That resonates a lot...Great episode, Great vision and analyse from Ali 💜🙏
Wasn’t it?! She brought soo much value 😁
This all resonates with me. I have had this 26 years. This drive to fix it is insatiable. Hard to release it. It's very interesting. Other sleep programs like re: sleep don't address the anxiety around sleep which is the most difficult aspect. Very helpful video.
Thank you for your heartfelt comment! We want to assure you that your comments are seen and deeply appreciated. We're grateful that the message resonated with you and that it's contributing to a meaningful conversation. Your support means a lot, and we're glad it made sense to you. 💙
Another amazing guest! Thank you.
Truly! Soo much value here, thanks Ali (!) and thank you Sarah for the support 😁
Thank you Ali!
Great interview. Gave me new insights. I begin to think more and more that the only way is the no attachment to the outcome and education. I am a thinker too so I want to understand all of it. I just remembered that in the past sometimes I deliberatly set my alarm early on a free day because I enjoyed the feeling of being in bed and not to have to get up. And now I think of sleep all the time. And all the what ifs...I just want to enjoy my day and let go of that I cannot influence. I get the counter efforts. Have them too. Problem I have is when I wake up in the early morning I have a hard time falling back asleep. Then I think about that it doesnt matter and cannot harm me etc. But thats also the effort and attachment. Because I still do care to much I guess. I will look into the natto book. Last time I checked it was not yet available in the netherlands. Thanks for the interview.
Hi Karin, and thanks much for the support. And you know, you’re really starting to understand sleep, which is a foundation! Without this it’s really difficult to see things get better. And exactly like you say, all the knowledge paradoxically can come to stand in your way. Because at some point it’s all about being less attached... This is Natto should be available in the Netherlands through Amazon. If you don’t see it let me know, I think it can help.
Thanks again for the support 😁
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thanks for the aswer. I think this is whats happening. Some of the knowledge is paradoxically becomming a counter effort. I think i am at a point where I should let things go by enjoying things because I still spend much time looking at video's and reading. I do little for myself that is not sleeprelated. And you are right. It is available at Amazone. I will order it. Looking forward to reading it. Have a great weekend!
You’ll get there Karin, you’re seeing the path so clearly! Hope you have a nice weekend, thanks for the supper, and be in touch!
Best episode...Ali...you are a star
Great Episode! I am happy to see someone like me overcome this struggle. But I am wondering how long does it take for her to fall asleep when in her good nights. Because it takes me 1-2 hour to fall asleep.
Thanks Agamyrat! I know that nowadays, it doesn’t take much time at all and she doesn’t keep track of it. I know this because I work with Alina all the time! I’m glad you found this episode and saw that someone in a similar situation to yourself can leave the struggle 🙂
It takes me too 1-2 hours but thereafter I am asleep .Sometimes it gets my angry but I remember myself before the same.But I wasnt having problem with that 😅😅😅
Thank you! I got some interesting insights from watching this episode 😊
So glad to hear Gerry 😊
Wauw thanks for sharing this story! This inspires me 🤩
So so happy Gideon to read this 😊 Alina is amazing!
Greetings Dr. Daniel, currently struggling with insomnia for almost 6 months. Speaking of sleep efforts, would you consider CBT and/or ACT sleep efforts?
Hi there! I’d say it’s all about intent, if we say “I have to get out of bed when awake so I make my brain associate bed with sleep so I sleep” OR “I have to stay in bed so my brain knows it’s safe there so I sleep” - that’s effort there. But if we approach CBT or ACT as means of self exploration, then there’s no effort there.
but is it okay to lie in bed in the day for 1 or 2 hours when you are tired? because they say that we have not lie in bed and use the hed only for sleep but that is also an effort@@thesleepcoachschool8192
So I feel like I learned about insomnia and sleep and efforts etc. and it feels like my mind learned so much and i understand it but how do I actually do it? Feels like my mind is going 10000 miles an hour with all the information. It seems more confusing than what it really is.. What are some key things that I can take away? To just embrace wakefulness?
Thank you very much for the video! It helped my anxiety a bit. Should I also just keep watching TV until I go to bed if that’s what I want to the most? Since turning it off would be an effort that I make to produce melatonin and be able to sleep?
Thanks for your comment!! Just a quick heads-up: we're hosting live Q&A sessions most weeks and we'd love for you to join us! It's a great chance to ask questions, share insights, and connect with others in the community.
Considering she states she began to suffer with insomnia in January, she has made a remarkable quick recovery. Is it common to be fully recovered within a year? I fully believe that this “fearless method” or more simply changing your perception is the key, however getting to this point I imagine can take a very long time especially for individuals who have negative associations with bedtime deeply engrained within them. I guess sleep anxiety can become a habit like anything and habits are hard to break. On a lighter note, great video👍
Hi Jake and thanks so much for this comment. You know, insomnia can mean anything from someone who’ve had a scare and trouble sleeping for two weeks to someone who’s been struggling for decades!
And for Ali, it was January 2020 so it was about a year between her starting to have trouble and leaving that struggle behind. I want to say that it all depends on how strong the “defense” is.
When the brain is really convinced there’s something wrong that must be taken care of, when there are deeply entrenched thoughts like this, it takes longer. If the thoughts are more fleeting, it takes less time... just like you said!
And totally agree about perceptions and habits... happy you liked it Jake and thanks for the support 😊
Hi Jake, this is Ali. I think the length of insomnia does not affect the speed of the recovery, at least the difference might be insignificant. I would assume that for those who struggled longer the reason might be that they didn't have the right resources and support at times when they really needed it. And Daniel's work helps speed it up a lot. I think once you get on this path (no matter how many years before you struggled), the progress spirals up.
It also depends what you mean by a full recovery. For me sleep stoped being a topic I need to solve or improve. And as weird as it sounds, I don't really think of myself as recovered because I realised that insomnia is not an illness it's more like a "boogie man" I once believed in, but it doesn't exist. So there isn't really what to recover from, you know what I mean? :)
I'm sure that the more ups and downs you have along the way the closer you are to the real unattachment to sleep, when you know that ability to sleep is built in you and you trust this without doing or thinking a thing. I am not scared of "bad" nights. I think I have one - two nights every month when I get up and read or watch something, but the rest of the nights I just go to bed and the next thing it is morning. I can wake up early or sleep in, or have a nap during the day or drink coffee at 6pm - and it won't make any difference. And I am 100% sure that each and everyone on that path is going to get there eventually :)
@@alinah.5140 such a great way to say that you didn't recover from insomnia because it is not a disease. That it is more like a boogieman. Never thought of it that way.
@@alinah.5140 thank you for taking the time to respond.
@@alinah.5140 Amen!
Coach Daniel, I haven't been sleeping but like 2 hrs 3 hrs on off and I'm so anxious about it I start to feel so terrible without sleep and mentally losing it. And then I can't sleep because I'm scared help me 😢😢😢
Hang in there, just knowing and understanding that it’s fear keeping us awake… that’s a big big step from thinking something like a hormonal problem or we are missing some vitamin, there’s already clarity which is so helpful. I think if you just spend a little time here learning and seeing that everyone who left the struggle once were in this place… things will get easier, rooting for you
Hi Daniel, thank you for replying to my posts. I have a question because I’ m confused a bit. So I tried getting up at night and reading and it worked really well. I went back to sleep. That was early night. But I often wake up early around 4-5 and the I don’t feel like getting up so I decide to stay in bed and do the breathing exercise. I saw your interview with Nina in which she says, just do nothing. My question is, I read Sasha’s book as well and she describes this one relaxation technique which she says is very powerful. Normally as I said when I’m in bed I do the breathing and that’s it. But she goes further and says to imagine I am the breathing or even the fear! So I’m confused because first I hear from Nina to do nothing and then from Saha no imagine that I’m the fear. I’m scared I will have more fear. But I tink what Nina means is give fear nothing, meaning don’t give it more power, but will it not become stronger if I say to myself that I am that fear?! What do I do? I’m confused now. Since I started to follow Nina and thought of the fear as a programme it went better but I’m confused today. I also watched an episode in which you say the only winning move is not to play, but imagining that I’m fear is not playing the game is it? If I imagine I am the fear, I will try to befriend it and it should lose its power right. That’s why I thought maybe this technique would be good for the moments when I’m in bed in the early hours. Or should I rather get up. When I got up two days ago and read something, I went back to bed and fell asleep immediately.
Anytime Kasia, thanks for being here.
It’s a little tricky to answer to this longer comment in a meaningful way. You can either just specify the question in another comment or you can send this or any other message to open class where we can go into more detail.
www.thesleepcoachschool.com/have-questions
Thanks!!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 maybe I could ask you this, during the day I have this tingling sensation and I wonder if I have to welcome it, or maybe it’s too much of a sleep effort. Today I didn’t do it, I know about it but I didn’t do anything. Is it just not to pay any attention to it? What do I have to do during the day with such sensations and this anxious feeling that I know something is in my head. You said abandon the game and the only winning move is not to play, that’s why I wonder, is it the best not to pay any attention, or not welcome any anxiety and tingling and leave it and do as if it’s not there, this pretending what Nina describes?
Hi Kasia,
I think it’s all about intent. If we welcome something so that it will go away, then that’s not truly welcoming. If we try to ignore something so it goes away, this also can lead to some struggle. But if we welcome discomfort and truly are willing to experience it, or if we pay little attention because it doesn’t feel like it needs attention… then in both cases we are willing to experience it and then the message is heard. When the message is hear then there’s no more any need for the brain to send the message!
Hi! Trying to help my husband sleep - he can't sleep until 3-4am. What should I do? He says he should use ambien to "get back on track". What should I do?
Hi Dwitiyah, welcome to the channel. I’m sorry to hear your husband has trouble sleeping, but glad you found the education here.
I think it can be really helpful to learn a bit by spending some time here. When you see that your husband has something very common, then it will not worry you as much and you can then, by just being kind and gentle with him, keep from doing what many spouses (with the best intentions!) do - suggest supplements or remedies that just cause more confusion and trouble!
Now, the key insight with insomnia is that you can’t force sleep. The more you try the less you sleep. Similarly, we can’t force someone to change their opinion or their thoughts. So I would say if your husband is very much set on going in a certain direction, then it’s possible that the more you try to convince him that another direction is better, the more he will want to stick to his plan.
The person struggling has to be ready, willing to do some learning and have that courage within to leave the struggle. And by the way, many many many people have done well after being on Ambien!
The path of least pressure is always a nice one!
Now, if you (or him!) want to start learning, these are great places to start:
This is natto - the perfect place to start learning!
ruclips.net/p/PL6RQ1GS7B1cik8Xr8iVdxmKB9FYieevYj
Success stories - if you need hope and inspiration, this is for you.
ruclips.net/p/PL6RQ1GS7B1cj68v9hdoXYv_fpOR65oI3U
Hope this helps and stay in touch!!
Hey Daniel ❤! If you are afraid of monitoring if you sleep and waiting for sleep to come ,just do the opposite ? Willing to experiecing that ? Because its my main problem ,i do sleep after but i notice if i have to wake up early i am anxious because the little hours i have for sleep and i monitor very much.This is not everyday because i am working mostly late so i sleep fine after 1-2 hours
Hello! I’d say that yes, anytime we are okay with something, it actually helps. Even sleep monitoring, because if we think “this is a problem” our brain will monitor it. And fear too, when we are willing to experience it, it becomes less and less bothersome
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thank you Daniel ! You are so good person
Trying not to think about making an effort is an effort
Yes! We call it a countereffort 🙂
The fear of fear.
I suffer with chronic health issues, sinusitis and anxiety, and general debility from autoimmune disease, it effects my ability to sleep, how to I manage to sleep and be hyper arroused when battling chronic health symptoms that create major discomfort and pain
Hi Scarlett. Thank you for sharing this and I’m sorry to hear of all these struggles. I would say this, for many people there are some circumstances that make it more difficult to sleep. Maybe it is that someone is elderly and has arthritis, maybe that someone has financial problems, there are often circumstances that makes it more difficult.
The thing is that when we focus on the circumstances that we have no control over come on and we think of them as the reason we can’t sleep, then we feel this empowered and creates a lot of frustration that makes sleep more difficult!
When we on the other hand acknowledge that there are circumstances that makes it more difficult but we can’t do anything about them, then that focus shifts. This frees us up to sleep as well as we can given the circumstances.
Hope this helps and hang in there Scarlett!!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you,Daniel. Would love an episode on health triggers and sleep, and letting go when dealing with health issues, and overcoming fear of dying in sleep for example.
Hi Scarlett, thanks for this! The best episodes are really the ones suggested from the community. I’m noting this to my short list of topics. You can also always send questions via the website. Best!
Defiance rather than bravery it confrontational "may" be a better descriptive term.
Oh my. Here's my story with no happy ending. I'm a 24 years old girl suffering from insomnia for about 9 years. Using Seroquel(Quetiapine) so that I can sleep. If there is no seroquel then there is no such a thing sleep. Not that I cannot, but because I don't feel sleepy if I don't take my meds for days over days. Once I tried to get off my pills, I found myself sleepless for 8 days with no sleep at all. What a misery I've been going through.
Do I have to use them until the end of my life? What do you think?
Hi Asli,
Sorry to hear how much you’re struggling, but glad you found the channel. There’s much here that I hope will be really helpful.
I want to share some words on why trying not to take sleep medications is so tricky:
A lot of people try to come off the medication but end up going back on it. This really happens mostly because they tried to come off. What do I mean by that? Well I mean they considered it a trial!
When you come off the medication or a sleeping pill and think of it as an experiment, you think “Let me see if I can sleep without this” then you have started a trial. And whenever you are doing something as a trial, you want to keep track of how well you’re doing.
So you go to bed without taking the pill, and you wonder what will happen. After 30 minutes you become a little bit worried, after one hour you think oh my gosh I’m not gonna sleep at all. But you decide to keep going and you sleep a little bit at night. But you decide to keep going with the trial.
After four sleepless nights, having tried to go without the pill, you decide it’s not working and you go back on the pill. Then it seems for sure like you cannot sleep without it.
But what actually happened is that it was the act of self monitoring and the trialing/experiment that was the reason you didn’t sleep!
We sleep really well when we don’t give it too much attention, and when we are trying to get off a medication, it’s very hard not to give it extra attention to see how we are doing.
Now, when you understand things like the above, when you see that delegation (thinking “the medication will take care of my sleep”) is the reason sleep medications “work” and not the chemicals inside, then you start seeing the path to sleeping well without struggling.
So no I don’t thing anyone has to take sleep pills. It’s not an easy path to no struggle, but anyone willing to learn and ready to face fear will get there!!
I am the same boat as you. I don’t know if this will end too
I want to try this but the problem is, i have been taking sleeping pills, melatonin.. Can i just stop taking pills and try this method?
So glad you’re here and you know we recently talked about this, I think this will be a nice answer to your question!
Yes you CAN! Here is how...(Insomnia Insight #542 )
ruclips.net/video/EfFhfPrmRbs/видео.html
I have kept a sleep diary for a number of years. It is simply an x for nights I didn't sleep well or a checkmark for nights I did sleep well. I wonder if I should stop that?
I have been realizing that sleep is none of my business!
I think you’re onto something that can help sooo much, leaving the attempts to have control. As you said, it’s none of my business just like let’s say digestion or nerve conduction 🙂
Hello Ali,
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I think I’m in the same situation as you. I like to give up all the tricks because I have so many speed bumps. But I have a question relating to that thinking: how can you calm down your anxiety when it attack you? Just think nothing or do nothing and let the bad thoughts come in?
Or should you try to think something different than anything related to sleeping?
@@truongnguyen53 Hi! Thanks for the question! You know, to me this isn't about right or wrong thoughts, or having no thoughts at all. I find it find it impossible to get rid of all thought :)
It is about understanding where that anxiety comes from. Sometimes it's worth looking into that anxiety and asking yourself: what exactly am I scared of? What's the worst that can happen? And sometimes you directly see that there is actually nothing behind and you might feel better. Sometimes however, you might find yourself worrying about having a ruined day due to no sleep, or some potential health consequences.
This is when it is good to test those assumptions, are they actually true? Does every sleepless night lead to the horrible day? Does every good night sleep lead to the great day? Do people with insomnia (and it's a huge number) die from insomnia? (never!) Are people with no insomnia protected against diseases just because they sleep well? (not at all!) And what you find is that these assumptions fail at the reality check.
And I believe this can truly lead to feeling better, because you understand what is happening to you and why. No specific technique is needed to achieve the state of peace, understanding and clarity is enough.
It is tricky, takes time and courage, and definitely not a quick-fix, but totally worth it 🙏
Hope it brings some clarity!
@@FearlessSleep thanks Ali!
Hey Daniel, one girl in the comments wrote she didn’t sleep for 8 days? This is so triggering and I don’t know how to deal with that… I mean - I don’t think this is possible, actually and it never happened to me. But how can we stop comparing our story to someone else’s?
Hi Ella,
You know, I also believe this isn’t possible… but having the experience and belief that we didn’t sleep for many days is very common..
And you know, I think there is this paradoxical answer to all our struggles which is to let them be. When we want to avoid something that is triggering, we think more about it and we become white sugar. When we want to forcefully try to stop ourselves from comparing to other stories, we end up spending more time comparing.
So what I think helps is to just distance ourselves from our thoughts. We can just observe how the brain start comparing with somebody else’s story without judging ourselves or the brain. Just taking note of it.
And when we no longer are trying to control our thoughts or our emotions, things just become so peaceful 🙂
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Your answers are always SO on point and helpful, I am so so grateful for all the work you do!!! You honestly give me so much hope. Thank you, it means the world!🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Hi Daniel and Alina,
I have a very similar story, having good sleep and then gradually the counterproductive sleep efforts creep in without me realising...I feel like I have no control over that at times. I have a question - on days when I don’t think about sleep at all, don’t care and don’t fear it, I’d go to bed at night with just an intention of relaxing and enjoying myself but my thoughts would start to race and then heart starts to race as well. Thoughts not even about sleep but just chaotic pointless thoughts, and I end up being awake for hours and then often wake up early with heart racing. I try to make them fleeting and just observe them but it doesn’t always work and I don’t feel comfortable in my bed as they race but also very sleepy at the same time so I don’t feel like getting out of bed but also I feel really uncomfortable at the same time. It’s annoying because i can’t see why it happens when I don’t care or think about sleep and feel relaxed before bedtime and then they just start to race when I hit the pillow...could it be deep subconscious insomnia leftovers or am I doing something wrong? On other days day I go to bed and feel very comfortable and relaxed, thoughts are pleasantly drifting but then I feel more awake after a few minutes and I don’t feel comfortable in my own mind and my bed anymore (anxiety?). I wouldn’t say it’s hypnic awareness because I don’t pay attention to my thoughts at all, just relaxing, then why does it happen if I feel good and relaxed and then suddenly it disappears for no reason?? What should I do in this case?
Hi Nina, what you are describing is something I experienced too. And I have a few thoughts on that.
When you write that anxiety comes out of nowhere, even if you feel good and relaxed - this is actually our internal alarm system in action. The thing with this alarm is that it is automatic and super-fast, it gets triggered (fight or flight) even before you realize it consciously. And this has a reason - we need these super fast reactions to keep us safe in moments when we are in danger. But with sleep, there is no real danger at all, but to the alarm system it is all the same. It can get triggered by very subtle things, even by a fact that it is dark, for example. I find it helpful seeing these symptoms (racing thoughts and hartbeat) as a part of automatic alarm system that has nothing to do with the reality or truth. Once you see it not as an enemy but the feature of our brain and give it some time to pass on its own, without forcing it, then it stops having any control over you and vanishes over time.
“I try to make them fleeting and just observe them” - when thoughts become too strong, it is not that easy to dismiss them, any attempts not to think will end up in more thoughts :) From my experience, if you have “what if” type of anxious thoughts about sleep, and you can’t get out of them, it is enough just to remind yourself that sleeplessness can’t harm you, that you can be OK the next day even without sleeping, and other reassuring thoughts that bring you to the place when you are OK with not sleeping. Also remember that these thoughts are a part of automatic alarm system, they aren’t the enemy, they can’t harm, it is the feature of anxious mind :)
“I feel like I have no control over that at times” The truth is no one has control over their sleep, even those who sleep well. You can’t make yourself fall asleep, it happens unconsciously. It is actually letting go of control that brings you to the place where you don’t struggle with sleep anymore.
I don’t know if this was helpful, let me know :)
@@alinah.5140 thank you Alina...yeah my alarm system must get triggered by very subtle things...out of nowhere, it can be really frustrating. You say to let thoughts pass And not make them go away, but what if it feels unpleasant to lie in bed while thoughts race? Befriending wakefulness and getting out of bed to do sth else would be like suppressing my alarm system by distracting myself,so then I don't let racing thoughts pass, and because I avoided them, they will come back? On the other hand if I don't feel comfortable , would it not make sense to get out and enjoy some other activity? How did you deal with it??
@@ninasimonovic6852 My approach was to choose a path of least resistance. With that in mind, there is no need to force yourself stay in bed when you are obviously frustrated, and also no need to pretend you don't feel the way you really feel. This is why distracting yourself isn't really helpful, because it becomes an effort - pretending and ignoring you feelings for the sake of controlling sleep.
Befriending wakefulness is not about trying to trick your mind, it is about discovering that being awake is not that scary as it seems. So if you feel frustrated lying in bed, getting up and doing something you'd enjoy or find meaningful is a better choice. But if you find it nice and cosy while in bed (but still awake) - there is no harm in staying there, enjoying that comfort. And the cool thing I find about this path of least resistance is that you can enjoy your night while having these thoughts and feelings - overtime they vanish, 'cause you aren't resisting them.
Hope this made sense :)
@@alinah.5140 thank you so much Alina, so much wisdom there!
@@alinah.5140 hi Alina I’ve had some amazing nights of sleep lately but then suddenly one night I felt wired and too awake to fall asleep even though I went to bed feeling calm and without expectations. That night my heart just wouldn’t stop racing, after that a few more nights happened that were identical to that night. I think really surprised me because my sleep got to a point where it’s pretty much fixed as I thought. Somehow these nights were worst than I’ve had in a long time... my heart wouldn’t stop racing, I’d tell myself that I’ll be alright the best day and I genuinely believed it, I knew I don’t have to force sleep and I didn’t... but my heart raced and I felt fearful despite all the knowledge and progress I’ve had. Last night same pattern happened, I was struggling to stay awake in the evening, went to bed, heart started racing. This time I decided to not fight it and just became aware of it and let it pass naturally. But eventually I would just get sick of lying there waiting for it pass without trying, because it wouldn’t pass! It raced for hours no matter what I thought... I was feeling uncomfortable being in bed even while just being aware and observing, it didn’t make me feel any better. Am I doing something wrong? Why did I suddenly have such bad nights? I remember that’ it’s just a alarm system and it can’t harm me.. but heart raced anyway. What’s the best thing to do to move past it back to my good sleep?
There is so much pressure now on having a good sleep for good health
Unfortunately so true… check our Heard online series, it can help so much to know there’s no backing for these claims
I took antibiotics too and did not sleep as in 0 sleep also. Until watching this and following Daniel. Somehow i manage to sleep. But taking meds.
Glad you could relate Samantha
I can’t seem to figure out whether I’m scared of wakefulness or the intrusive thoughts after. How can we deal with the pressure of anxiety after sleepless nights?
I would say as an amateur beginner that you should try to act normal as possible on the days after you can't sleep. Just as if you had a good night sleep. That way you teach yourself that it doesn't matter whether you are anxious or not or whether you slept well or not
How do I fix anxiety due to fear of feeling tired during the day and not getting things done... this fear keeps me up at nights. I’m so tired of being tired all the time due to lack of sleep
Yes, this is one of the most common drivers. I think this can really help!
ruclips.net/p/PL6RQ1GS7B1cje9e66guVo6BsSF-glS8c7
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thanks for your answer🙂
@@di5957 how are you now?
@@shreyas1995 I’m good, thanks! My sleep has gotten so much better)
Amazing insights😀
😊
I'm struggling so bad for 2.5 years. Not one night of good sleep. I don't know where to even begin. I can't continue on in life like this.
Aron, I’m so so saddened to read these lines… but you’ve found your way here and many many have felt this way and are now not struggling with sleep or emotions… of course check with your doctor when you’re concerned about your health, but I think there’s much here that can help… rooting for you Aron
@thesleepcoachschool8192 I have been to several doctors. They can't help as I am physically healthy. I definitely have hyperarousal and sleep anxiety. I would love to share my story someday, its a wild story.
@aronjohnson2553 you are always welcome, hope you’ll find the answers that had been escaping here
What advice do you have for those who can GET to sleep, but not STAY asleep?
Hi Adam! Thank you for posting this comment, I’m sure a lot of people have this question. I would say that everyone’s experience is different but insomnia really all comes from the same place. It comes from a place were being awake has become a threat and problem and is something you want to go away. And the more you want it to go away the more sticky it becomes!
When someone is really afraid of being awake invite from the moment they are going to bed, they have trouble falling asleep. When someone wakes up and then is afraid of being awake then they have trouble staying asleep. But the key is really the same, the key is to learn that there is no harm that can come from being awake, that there is no threat, and then you sleep well whether you had trouble falling asleep or staying asleep from the beginning!
Good question ADAM.. that is exactly the problem I have.
I am sleeping 5 hours but still feeling unrefreshed? This is very frustrating
Hi Sumit, yes many have shared this and we have a playlist called unrefreshing sleep… hope it can helo
This case is not chronic insomnia .I've had it for 20 years ❤
So getting to sleep cant be controled and even thinking beyign awaken is fine can be considered as geting yourslef into presure. Well then the only solution is to giveup or belive in god - since only the unexplainable uncontrolable solves it. And you cant do that either since that can be count as presure - wanting it to solve it itself. So it would be the best to wipe out yourr memory and not even knowing u havent slept before. Imposible task. Which creates another trauma of not solveable. So maybe the best way is to just live with the state your curently in. If u forget about u havent slept then u won. Since it cant be considered presure if u didnt even know u doing it for that reason since u dont even know u have a problem. Has to be litteraly forgetting. It cant be intentionaly hiding the truth u havent slept. It has to be literaly forgeting over time (preferebly by itself). Not sleeping is the weirdest sicknes there was. I woudltn even care to solve it if it didnt put presure on my rgith side of skull whenever am not sleepin.
I bet our brain just not geting some chemicals properly setup and it cant restart itself to go to sleep if some bug protecitng it from finishing the restart.
Hi Synarus,
I do think this is how our inner struggles fade, to surrender our attempts to have control… whether to god, ourselves, nothingness… it leads to peace
what is Ali's instagram please ?