Great new video here! Cool thoughts and thanks for sharing what you do and kinda how. 👊🤓 And, by the way, all the "it's my game" way of DM-ING, is exactly what Gary said and did himself, sir, so you're of course in amazingly great company!! Please do much, much, more of this for us!
For the Horned Society, I went with using a character from the Rogue's Gallery called Erac's Cousin, who took over and made the Horned Society into a fully fledged nation after becoming a Cambion of Infernal blood.
Tony - great topic. Unless I’m misremembering, I do believe the WG6 Isle of the Ape addresses some rules particulars for extremely high level players and monsters.
You are correct. There are a few high level modules out there. For AD&D, the WG & H modules are designed for higher levels. One can also go to the Masters or Immortals sets for the BECMI D&D system.
I use central casting for backgrounds, one character had a rival for the love of his life but lost out. His rival used and ruined the woman. Fast forward to a secret cave harbor full of pirates. He recognizes his rival during a harbor wide brawl set off by the party. The player risked his own life, the lives of his party (1 dies as a result) to take out this old rival. The look of satisfaction on his face when he took him out was priceless.
Can you maybe touch on how you handle combat with these high powered characters. The charts, spells etc? Do they ever miss etc. that kind of thing. Thanks again Tony, please do more videos like these.
Thanks for the video! I've rarely run high level games, and only one high level campaign, and though they were fun, I find they can suffer a bit if the DM isn't well versed in the system. I have really hated when I have had to spend more time checking the books for mechanics or spell details. What might be worse is when more than one of the PCs' players aren't up to speed to play at the higher levels. A DM can often flip quickly to a book section, get the gist of what might be a gap in knowledge then wing it from there but unless the DM is willing and able to do the same for multiple players, a game can be one screeching halt after another. Maybe having one inexperienced player can be handheld but more than one can make a game troublesome for everyone at the table. Don't let it be a spellcaster. Anyway, when it has worked out, it has been a blast, but it can be risky for convention or gameday one-shots. Not as bad for home campaigns where everyone is growing in rules mastery together. I am still an advocate of allowing gameplay to dictate story but story elements in the setting are key to getting players engaged, so maybe it works the same way. I am also a fan of leaving the room as a DM and giving players time to scheme if the in-game situation warrants it. I like surprises! 1E AD&D is what I run mainly and beyond the three core books stuff needs approval for inclusion, with spells from UA or elsewhere that are approved needing to be researched in-game.
Have you considered also the 2e AD&D module for A Paladin in Hell? I don’t know how well it integrates with Judges Guild Inferno. I’ve heard good things about both of them. I highly recommend consulting Dragon # 28, 75, 76, & 91 for much material on the Nine Hells. Issues # 42, 120, & 223 also have some info. Of course, MM, FF, & MM2, & De&De contain all sorts of info about Devils & Hell. Enjoy! 😉
@@glenncox9128 Thanks a ton for this, not familiar with most of it but integrating usually isn't that hard, And if the material is good, a good DM finds a way!
@@Snoil Google is your friend. Dragon magazine can be found at AnnaArchive &/or the Internet Archive. Searches for 1st or 2nd edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons will turn up most materials.
My original character, that would be 50 years old, got too powerful so I declared him to be a minor god. I took his original stats, and ran them as if he was the first's son.
Honestly I agree it only matters that somehow he’s found a way to do this thing If it becomes relevant via some solution players figure might work or some player wants to seek out figuring out the method themselves, then sure define a method. But until it becomes something your players interact with there’s no real reason to define how he’s doing it. Besides it’s magic it can do anything within reason. And it’s not like there’s no precedence for something like that. There’s tons of ways magic users in the core rules can project their senses and cast spells through other things. The simple answer would be “oh it’s like this other thing but it works in this scenario”
Sometimes you can't kill the Villain. Because of the story you may not be able to get rid of them and may have to make a deal or contract or even peace with them. It could be that the populace loves the Villain so much that it would cause a revolution against YOU or cause a war in your own territory. We didn't have super high level characters like your campaign. But we were forced to let the Villain live because we had no way to destroy him.
The Iron Mage sounds like a great villain, a Sentinel meets Dr. Doom! I may need to borrow that. . . I've honestly never bother with the "how" villains get their power either, they tend to have things that are never in the books unless its something that catches my family. They have their power and its a problem, simple as.
While this is perfectly fair, I generally feel a need to justify every BBEG with a game mechanic explanation for everything they have and do. Maybe I’m just OCD, but to me it seems to be more of a creative process in maintaining game balance if everything can be justified and explained. I think it produces a tangible effect of reality to the players if there’s a consistent cause & effect process undergirding the campaign. That being said, the potential variety is endless, and I could easily see incorporating a gun fight with Captain Kirk. I guess I must be OCD.😂
Have you ever had writers block? I got stuck in my campaign and had to ask a friend to take over. I had a dark elf smuggler as one of the main bad guys. He wanted to blot out the sun, but i didnt know how to get from one plot point to the next.
you mention comics...in the star trek adventures game im in a few of our players work in the comics industry so our ship is named the Sabre class starship the USS Sienkiewicz
How lethal are your games? It sounds like a lot of characters survive a very very long time. Or are the players just super wary and avoid getting into deadly situations?
With D&D and AD&D we learned very quickly to run away and fight another day. We spent our fortunes to raise the dead or regain lost levels. I can remember only a couple of characters that were actually what you would call wealthy. The rest of the characters were fairly poor by comparison.
in the swords and wizardry game im in i have a level three fighter and tbh i feel like a big bad considering some of the players are level one...some are level two
S1: Tomb of Horrors was specifically designed to take out overpowered high level characters. The idea was to focus more upon the actual game play than the character build. With that in mind, any DM can ALWAYS find ways to kill overpowered characters. But, really, the point is to have fun by finding the right balance between risk and reward. There’s an unlimited variety of ways to achieve this, and the 1e AD&D books have the basic information required to accommodate everything. It’s not implausible for a 1 hit point kobold to take out a 30th level character, if the DM sets up the encounter correctly. This is the point behind S1: Tomb of Horrors and Tucker’s Kobolds. But, for higher level player characters, ultimately the DM will want to move them into other aspects of role playing, such as managing kingdoms, or developing legacies.
In a *game* universe where a wave of a stick, and shouting some weird sounds, can make a ball of fire suddenly explode, without chemicals or any other moving parts, the idea of "rules" is charming. 😉
It helps to remember the game arose from a derivation of table top strategy war games. Thus, while many players have different game concepts, there are many liking the rules structure for strategic reasons in addition to the role playing aspects. But, that is the beauty of AD&D - it easily accommodates both features. 👍 👍
100% agree.
Great new video here! Cool thoughts and thanks for sharing what you do and kinda how. 👊🤓 And, by the way, all the "it's my game" way of DM-ING, is exactly what Gary said and did himself, sir, so you're of course in amazingly great company!! Please do much, much, more of this for us!
A lich + an iron golem? Oooooh, that's genius!
Monster summoning rust monsters
For the Horned Society, I went with using a character from the Rogue's Gallery called Erac's Cousin, who took over and made the Horned Society into a fully fledged nation after becoming a Cambion of Infernal blood.
Two words … cursed items ( relics ) as always very well done and congratulations on being published
Tony - great topic. Unless I’m misremembering, I do believe the WG6 Isle of the Ape addresses some rules particulars for extremely high level players and monsters.
Yes it does.
You are correct. There are a few high level modules out there.
For AD&D, the WG & H modules are designed for higher levels.
One can also go to the Masters or Immortals sets for the BECMI D&D system.
I use central casting for backgrounds, one character had a rival for the love of his life but lost out. His rival used and ruined the woman. Fast forward to a secret cave harbor full of pirates. He recognizes his rival during a harbor wide brawl set off by the party. The player risked his own life, the lives of his party (1 dies as a result) to take out this old rival. The look of satisfaction on his face when he took him out was priceless.
Yeah Paul Jaquays did some great work back in the day.
Cool different video. I like the content. Thanks for doing it
The Iron Mage sounds terrific. Your campaign must have incredible depth after so many years. 👏 👏
If you can create a villain or other NPC your players love to hate, you're doing a great job! 👍
The From The Ashes map, nice.
Very few people can tell stories about their 43-year-old AD&D Greyhawk campaign. You rock!
*I'm loving these guides on Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.*
Can you maybe touch on how you handle combat with these high powered characters. The charts, spells etc? Do they ever miss etc. that kind of thing. Thanks again Tony, please do more videos like these.
When I run high level tables combat is rare, often last resort, and literally epic. Story and character development are the main course.
Thanks for the video! I've rarely run high level games, and only one high level campaign, and though they were fun, I find they can suffer a bit if the DM isn't well versed in the system. I have really hated when I have had to spend more time checking the books for mechanics or spell details. What might be worse is when more than one of the PCs' players aren't up to speed to play at the higher levels. A DM can often flip quickly to a book section, get the gist of what might be a gap in knowledge then wing it from there but unless the DM is willing and able to do the same for multiple players, a game can be one screeching halt after another. Maybe having one inexperienced player can be handheld but more than one can make a game troublesome for everyone at the table. Don't let it be a spellcaster. Anyway, when it has worked out, it has been a blast, but it can be risky for convention or gameday one-shots. Not as bad for home campaigns where everyone is growing in rules mastery together. I am still an advocate of allowing gameplay to dictate story but story elements in the setting are key to getting players engaged, so maybe it works the same way. I am also a fan of leaving the room as a DM and giving players time to scheme if the in-game situation warrants it. I like surprises! 1E AD&D is what I run mainly and beyond the three core books stuff needs approval for inclusion, with spells from UA or elsewhere that are approved needing to be researched in-game.
I like the concept of your Iron Mage! 👍
Thank you for this! I was thinking 10th-plus level but 30th level? WOW!
Some handy tips, I'll be running some high evels into Inferno a ways down the road 8>D
Have you considered also the 2e AD&D module for A Paladin in Hell?
I don’t know how well it integrates with Judges Guild Inferno. I’ve heard good things about both of them.
I highly recommend consulting Dragon # 28, 75, 76, & 91 for much material on the Nine Hells. Issues # 42, 120, & 223 also have some info.
Of course, MM, FF, & MM2, & De&De contain all sorts of info about Devils & Hell.
Enjoy! 😉
@@glenncox9128 Thanks a ton for this, not familiar with most of it but integrating usually isn't that hard, And if the material is good, a good DM finds a way!
@@Snoil Google is your friend. Dragon magazine can be found at AnnaArchive &/or the Internet Archive. Searches for 1st or 2nd edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons will turn up most materials.
That is a cool villain idea, and yeah I wouldn't share my legacy characters fully either.
Another question: Have you ever posted your Ooo on Patreon for us to peruse from you?
Not yet.
My original character, that would be 50 years old, got too powerful so I declared him to be a minor god. I took his original stats, and ran them as if he was the first's son.
Awesome
Lord Dremel sounds like a tool
I see what you did there. Actually, I was trying to think of a name for the NPC and was working with my dremel...
Honestly I agree it only matters that somehow he’s found a way to do this thing
If it becomes relevant via some solution players figure might work or some player wants to seek out figuring out the method themselves, then sure define a method. But until it becomes something your players interact with there’s no real reason to define how he’s doing it. Besides it’s magic it can do anything within reason. And it’s not like there’s no precedence for something like that. There’s tons of ways magic users in the core rules can project their senses and cast spells through other things. The simple answer would be “oh it’s like this other thing but it works in this scenario”
My mega level characters are from 1979 and 1982.
Sometimes you can't kill the Villain. Because of the story you may not be able to get rid of them and may have to make a deal or contract or even peace with them. It could be that the populace loves the Villain so much that it would cause a revolution against YOU or cause a war in your own territory.
We didn't have super high level characters like your campaign. But we were forced to let the Villain live because we had no way to destroy him.
I had that in my Sunndi campaign.
Story always drives games the right way, regardless of level.
👍🏻😎👽
The Iron Mage sounds like a great villain, a Sentinel meets Dr. Doom! I may need to borrow that. . .
I've honestly never bother with the "how" villains get their power either, they tend to have things that are never in the books unless its something that catches my family. They have their power and its a problem, simple as.
While this is perfectly fair, I generally feel a need to justify every BBEG with a game mechanic explanation for everything they have and do. Maybe I’m just OCD, but to me it seems to be more of a creative process in maintaining game balance if everything can be justified and explained. I think it produces a tangible effect of reality to the players if there’s a consistent cause & effect process undergirding the campaign. That being said, the potential variety is endless, and I could easily see incorporating a gun fight with Captain Kirk. I guess I must be OCD.😂
Have you ever had writers block? I got stuck in my campaign and had to ask a friend to take over. I had a dark elf smuggler as one of the main bad guys. He wanted to blot out the sun, but i didnt know how to get from one plot point to the next.
Yes, I have. I will generally switch to a different game until it clears.
you mention comics...in the star trek adventures game im in a few of our players work in the comics industry so our ship is named the Sabre class starship the USS Sienkiewicz
How lethal are your games? It sounds like a lot of characters survive a very very long time. Or are the players just super wary and avoid getting into deadly situations?
The campaign has been pretty lethal. Almost all of the characters have died at some point and been brought back.
With D&D and AD&D we learned very quickly to run away and fight another day. We spent our fortunes to raise the dead or regain lost levels. I can remember only a couple of characters that were actually what you would call wealthy. The rest of the characters were fairly poor by comparison.
Look up the module H4
in the swords and wizardry game im in i have a level three fighter and tbh i feel like a big bad considering some of the players are level one...some are level two
S1: Tomb of Horrors was specifically designed to take out overpowered high level characters.
The idea was to focus more upon the actual game play than the character build.
With that in mind, any DM can ALWAYS find ways to kill overpowered characters. But, really, the point is to have fun by finding the right balance between risk and reward. There’s an unlimited variety of ways to achieve this, and the 1e AD&D books have the basic information required to accommodate everything. It’s not implausible for a 1 hit point kobold to take out a 30th level character, if the DM sets up the encounter correctly. This is the point behind S1: Tomb of Horrors and Tucker’s Kobolds.
But, for higher level player characters, ultimately the DM will want to move them into other aspects of role playing, such as managing kingdoms, or developing legacies.
man I wish my wife would play
In a *game* universe where a wave of a stick, and shouting some weird sounds, can make a ball of fire suddenly explode, without chemicals or any other moving parts, the idea of "rules" is charming. 😉
It helps to remember the game arose from a derivation of table top strategy war games.
Thus, while many players have different game concepts, there are many liking the rules structure for strategic reasons in addition to the role playing aspects.
But, that is the beauty of AD&D - it easily accommodates both features. 👍 👍