Yet another certified W from the squirrel. In my opinion people have this backwards. The right "rules light" system is even better for a long-term campaign than a crunchier system. A lot of crunchy systems tend to focus on vertical progression (big number go brrr) whereas the primary lever to pull on progression in a rules light system is horizontal progression (gain new abilities/tools/gear rather than making the ones you already have stronger) which is just more fun to me? People enjoy what they enjoy, it's all subjective and all, but I've found over the years that my players are far more excited to find a use-case for the weird new ability they took than they are to take a test drive on their extra +1 to attack and damage. I've honestly gotten bored with Pathfinder campaigns far faster than I did playing a campaign of something like Mausritter or Vaults of Vaarn. Plus a rules-light system opens up for the option of purely emergent progression. Rather than having a list of stuff to pick from, you develop based on the choices you made in the campaign. The party has succeeded in driving a gnoll clan out of the monastery that they were occupying, finding in the process a magical flail on the gnoll chieftan made from a human's skull that can be launched from the flail as a ranged attack, and as thanks for returning their monastery to them the Order of Being Real Good at Looking Cool has offered to train one of the party members in their hidden techniques, giving them a new feature that lets them wallrun. Had they instead befriended the gnolls and gotten rid of those pesky monks for them, they would have received the blessing of the Gnoll god of the Five Second Rule, letting them eat anything organic without consequence and some stupid roll of paper the gnolls found that they don't care about which turns out to be a prayer anyone can recite in order to bless 6 people with the ability to slow fall and double jump for 1 hour. I'm sure someone could do that in Pathfinder, but you'd have to wait for the players to pick their 18th feet and figure out if their two different +2 to hit bonuses stack or not before you could tell them about it.
We're on the same page. I think I mentioned it another video, but it seems like systems like D&D and Pathfinder would be the ones to get stale after so much play. If you have predetermined level up paths, even with some options along the way, you're going to end up playing the same thing sooner or later. Whereas with a rules light, your progression and growth is specific to the adventure you were playing like you mentioned. I think it was the "Skills vs Classes" video I touched on that a little bit. But hey, different strokes and all that. There's a reason Path of Exile is so popular, along with D&D and Pathfinder. Though I will say I do think there has been a rise in people wanting to get away from crunchier systems, but in reality that's probably just because there's been a rise in players across the board.
I'm running a space opera campaign using EZD6. Works just fine. Admittedly, our group is more focused on roleplaying in-character than a tactical wargame. The roleplaying of the character is our goal, not some sort of mechanical levelling up. EZD6 is a great system.
Yep, that's interesting, I was thinking of using ezd6 for space opera, share your exp - did you just reflavoured or made some homebrew? Did you use original ezd6 or wasteland one?
I think you reached the crux of the sticking point- at least for me. I think a lot of people maybe be coming from video games, like me. I came into gaming knowing nothing but leveling really, even some of the stuff via ocarina of time. Changing that mindset I think is tricky
It is, and to make it even worse, you can accrue video game time a LOT faster than you can TTRPG time since it's a lot easier to start playing, making the mindset all the more ingrained. And it's nothing against video games either. That leveling up approach they take is a key ingredient to feeling like you're progressing and getting somewhere due to the limitations of reality and not being able to program anything and everything under the sun into a single video game. Whether it's Cities: Skylines where you're building a city or Skyrim where you're in a fantasy world taking quests, there's still a defined path of progression, because that's typically what a video game needs. TTRPGs play a little different, or at least they can, and like you said, sometimes changing that mindset can be difficult. But man once you break that mindset it sure does open a world of possibilities.
@ oh for sure. Even now if I’m playing a video game I find myself breezing through it like I have to “get to the next objective”. Even in games like pillars of eternity or BG3! What’s interesting is I feel like I used to be invested in some of the stories of older games with less crunchy progression a la Zelda games… but that shifted for me with KOTOR and KOTOR 2, but that was really the last story game that pulled me in When I’ve tried solo ttrpg-ing it was definitely more engaging but also harder..probably because it’s new to me lol
@@vincentesposito4843 There's probably an argument to be made there that newer/more recent games focus way more on the "dopamine drip", tempting you with that level up. There's a reason roguelites sell so well (along with being cheaper/easier to make, leaving more budget for marketing). Whereas older games kept you playing with an interesting story and characters, or just wanting to explore "one more cave", or a mixture.
Aside from HP increase and lower THAC0 when leveling, thats pretty much how we played BECMI D&D back in the day, prior to rules expansions. Great video, Squirrel. And, as a bonus, you also gave viewers a little glimpse on how to plan adventures and drop a little foreshadowing and adventure nuts along the way, i mean seeds, adventure seeds... Keep up the good work, and be careful you don't go "too far" out on that limb. Its a nasty drop🤪
Well thanks for the kind words, but also Adventure Nuts! I'm going to have to remember that one. Also yes, it is a long drop. Gotta be careful when talking about certain things.
I'd like to do more with reputation at some point. The first campaign I ran would have been a good one for it, as they were rooted pretty firmly in a single city. Being recognized could be a lot of fun, especially when you go somewhere a bunch of people don't like what you've done.
I will add a caveat on games that kind of put themselves in a position specifically not to have long campaigns. Blood & Bronze is a system I have been looking into and the Rank up system is money based. It wouldn't be unreasonable for smart or lucky players to get rank ups pretty fast, even if they aren't fighting human enemies. Not to mention the longer term detriments for some classes using their abilities. Some systems are made for the characters to be around for a good time, not a long time. Thanks for another great video! You clarified more thoughts on my own system once again. Also, I've been noticing squirrels at work now since seeing that channel on Discord... 😆
I'll have to check that one out. Mausritter definitely braces you for not being around for long, but at the same time does provide a way for you to grow if you can make it. Money based growth always catches my attention though. One of these days I'll get to try it in a TTRPG. Also yes - the squirrels are everywhere. Watch out!
Nice! It's also worth noting that both systems have additional supplements that include expanded options for advancement -- DM Scotty's Brain Candy (for EZD6) and Tricube Tactics (for Tricube Tales).
Shhhh! We can't talk about Tricube Tactics yet because I haven't got to play. Therefore it doesn't officially exist. But on that note, me and Avenue Studios are looking to be geared up to play Tricube Tales on Feb 15th. The plan is to run Tactics shortly after that too. I'm super stoked, because Jacob is going to be running both of them and Tricube seems like something right up his alley. Gonna be a good time.
I don't generally use advancement in EZD6 campaigns though I do usually give extra aspects for particularly epic achievements. Adding HP isn't something I'd use because it decreases the risk element but it would work well for most fantasy settings.
Adding HP in something like EZD6 or Tricube is pretty big buff considering you only get 3. But it is still an option! Might reserve that one for a super magical shield or something.
I'm currently planning a hex crawl in Cairn and these are roughly the principles I'm following. It has a neat SCAR system to improve PCs but it is a bit hit or miss when it gets triggered. To supplement, I'm making some homebrew items, relics, etc and plan on giving PCs abilities based on how their role in the party naturally develops. Like magic is pretty uncommon and usually requires a spellbook to cast spells, I'm planning on adding a grimoire that can hold 3 spellbooks in one inventory slot and maybe introduce the idea of cantrips that don't require a spellbook or can be indefinitely added to one inventory slot. But players won't unlock this unless someone in the party is really invested in magic
Likewise for stealthy or tankier characters I have relics that will ignore the armor of a enemy if certain conditions are met and require different recharge methods
"SCAR" sounds like an awesome acronym lol. I didn't get into it in the video, but one thing you can do with the magical items when trying to "level up" a character is make the magical item limited if you're not fully confident in its balance. That way if it's a bit over-tuned, you won't have to worry about it when it runs dry. And if it ends being balanced just right? You can come up with a way for them to charge it back up or prevent it from draining. Another quest! Just hope you don't get the player that refuses to try it out until you get to an important boss fight and then unloads the entire thing 😒
I always try to tell people that light rules systems can handle long-term campaigns, and I usually use the Zelda videogames as examples. There are other ways to measure progression: gear, reputation, fame, or money. However, for some players, only the numbers matter.
EZD6 mentions "land, title, fortifications, or small businesses" as some of the long-term play rewards you could do. And honestly, after seeing the enjoyment the players had in my first campaign by owning and upgrading a tavern, that is 100% something to do. Actually ... I might just have to make a video on that. "Interesting mounts or means of transport" is another thing EZD6 mentions, and who doesn't like an awesome mount? Especially when it can hold more loot to bring back home.
It's about what you are looking for in an rpg. Personally, I love light systems because I just want to be a part of an action story that has some rules to make logic in combat consistent. However, other people are more wargame oriented and want to be able to make character builds.
Very much so. I can understand the appeal of growing a character, leveling, getting new abilities and all that and just hacking your way through one dungeon after another, but I can also dig the more "free-flow" approach of growth being unique to your character and specific to that adventure. That's more interesting to me, but again, different strokes, different folks. And that's all fine and dandy so long as everyone finds the right table.
I love the hell out of the idea of rules lite. I have 5 torches deep, but it is really on the lite side of things. I have some ways to spice it up a little, but in the end I keep coming back to - why am I putting work into someone else's game when I could put the same effort into my own. I have a couple of ideas in the works and in theory they will work just fine and they get away from the DND clone epidemic. I think when a game is too much like DND, like 5td is, people are always comparing it, and it is just lackluster. However, if anything, 5TD was inspirational.
That "why am I putting work into someone else's game" is what pushed me towards making my own too. I was trying to make what was essentially an overhaul for 5e. I wanted a way people could still make the characters they wanted and pick all their spells and abilities, then run it all through a "converter" basically that simplified things so combat wouldn't take 3 days. At some point I realized it was very silly to spend time "fixing" someone else's multi-million dollar mistake when I could just make something from the ground up and call it my own. And then I could make my own mistakes!
ive seen people ask if the cypher system (a game with a level up system and story arcs built into the core book) can handle a long term campaign because it "only has 6 tiers". Nevermind that getting to those tiers takes 16 xp and you only expect a player to get 2-4 xp per session on average so thats 8*5 = 40 on the short side and 4*5 = 20 on the longer side and theres other things to do for players with xp than level up, like reroll or short/long term benefits. Honestly sometime i think that if a system has xp in the single digits, people lose their minds, not even mentioning games without xp
hey I'm actually somewhat familiar with the Cyper System! I even played a game of DimDay Red with Dean, who I believe is connected to it somehow? Haven't played Cypher, but it does seem pretty cool. ANYWAY - you're very right about single digit XP. If you want a fun rabbit hole to go down, look up why video games are designed with the numbers they use. The damage in/out ratio can be the same, but when you fluff the numbers up, it makes people want to play more. It's kinda crazy, really.
Classic Traveller had zero PC skill growth, and I have read about campaigns that ran for years. Of course in Traveller PCs are supposed to experienced professionals at the beginnig of the campaign. Newer versions do have PC skill growth but is very slow. PCs grow by acquiring new gear, better ships, and the dreaded narrative stuff like friends, allies, and the worst thing...a cool story of the PCs adventures. I've always found actual leveling like in D&D to be a very clunky and completely unrealistic way to increase the skill and power of the PCs. Slower more organic growth as is found in most skill based RPGs is a much better way to do it. I definitely agree with you that if you think rules light RPGs can't be used for longer campaigns, the problem isn't the system, but the people playing the game. I engage in sandbox gaming with emergent play being the end goal of the narrative exercise. The whole point of a campaign isn't to see how many plusses the PCs can aquire before the end, but to find out how the cool ass story of their deeds plays out. For me the collaborative storytelling inherent in TTRPs is what makes these games so unique, and you don't need tons of rules and bells and whistles for that to happen. All you need is a coherent system that can be used to facilitate the creation of an emerging storyline. I've also found with lighter rule sets PCs often have access to a lot of the cool shit they can do either immediately or fairly early in the campaign. With something like 5e, it could take months or even years for PCs to gain access to even half the cool shit they can do. I want PCs to be badass at the beginning!
oooo starting off as experienced professionals would be interesting. Instead of the meme of "I'm a master wizard at level 1 with almost no spells". Getting to start off actually experienced and good but also with slow progression could be really neat. I think there's a rise in people lately realizing they don't need much to run a game or campaign. Like you said, just something basic/coherent to keep it grounded and make sense. But at the same time, D&D's popularity continues to spread, pulling in entirely new people that think that's just how TTRPGs work.
Another similar topic is "This game can't be used solo". When in fact, you can solo any game! All it takes is some oracles of some sort and you're good to go! (e.g. Mythic and other random tables)
Ooooo that could be a fun video. Unfortunately, I've done so little solo stuff, I'm not sure I'm "fit enough" to do that one just yet. But I like the idea! Might have to rope in some of those solo gurus like Caverna Do Lekkis.
@@asquirrelplays Yep! Any of the solo vtubers should have more info and know how. They'll all say it's possible, but that some games are harder than others. Mysteries can be done too!
@@asquirrelplays Mythic Magazine Volume 6 goes through how to Mystery solo. Has lots of advice and provides ways to do it. Mythic Magazine Volume 47 contains the one-page mystery crafter. Then there's The Between and Brindlewood Bay, since they don't start with the mystery solution determined, those can be modified for solo quite easily. Same concepts!
@@asquirrelplays For specific solo ttrpgers that have done mysteries, I'm unsure! I know Man alone, The dungeon dive, and dave thaumavore have done videos on solo mystery stuff before.
well lucky for you I (should) always have the links in the description! Can't tell you how many videos I've seen with catchy music I wanted to listen to and there was no mention or way to find it. But on that note, that was a pretty solid version of it. I had never heard it before making the video. 10/10 would doot doot again.
Campaigns are about an ongoing episodic story. Neither progression nor mechanical crunch have anything to do with storytelling or campaigns. That's roll play not roleplay. Instead advancing the story's points, building relationships, finding knowledge, recovering specific props, and even traveling to specific locations are all elements used to move a campaign's forward. Leveling up, has zero relationship to any of that. This kind of thinking is what happens when players learn how to DM from people who write collectible card games. Great material keep up the good work.
whaaaaaaaat? I know it's been a while but don't you have to in order to finish the game? When I was searching for the footage I actually found an entire video dedicated to talking about that specific moment lol and you know what? Dude was right. It was a game changer. If I remember right, little child me picked up on the clue where you find another tube just like it in an enclosed space but it's already busted.
My two cents: 1¢ It does and doesn’t put more work on the GM (maybe even the players). There’s more creative work, more tweaking and stuff. But while on paper it’s objectively easier and less work, finding the approach rules, finding out if there even are appropriate rules, figuring out exactly how they work, figuring out how to adjust them when the situations aren’t as clean as described in the book etc etc all adds lots of time and effort. Just different kinds. 2¢ I far prefer mechanical leveling to simply story telling or basically adding a new skin to a character, but in no way does this need to be codified, linear or balanced. If you remember the end of the BREAK!! campaign, Steph’s character got their arm mangled. Had we continued he would have had to make a choice of what to do next. Patch and dress it up but leave it there, useless? Amputate? He was a magical character so maybe magical healing or magical arm? Mechanical arm? Each have different mechanical and role playing elements to them. While BREAK!! isn’t rules lite, that character development didn’t rely on any established rules nor would have been particularly complicated or difficult to work out. A bonus, 3¢ Like was mentioned in the Discord, the world developing can also be huge. This probably doesn’t work as well with big, world saving quests, but for example with the Roothaven campaign (Mausritter), you guys gained the ability to communicate with spiders as ambassadors. You also were on the way I believe to helping those one skeleton mice to escape the tree which would have caused all sorts of reactions within the greater community. So you’re watching the world developing and watching your place within that world change
Yeah, I really wanted to get into the banes/quirks part of growing where things don't exactly go your way, but it only got an honorable mention at the end. In Steph's case, it could have been a magical replacement or something more mechanical. Giving him both pros and cons to the new "feature" is a great way to not only grow, but make the growth unique to that adventure. Losing his arm would be a detriment/bane/quirk/whatever for a period, but then it could eventually get replaced with something else, making him stronger than he initially was (with some possible drawbacks). Also the way we were changing the world in Mausritter was fantastic, and yet another method that I didn't get time to talk about. And now that I think about it, that's probably a better way to go in Mausritter since you're so expendable in that one.
@ Yeah, remember that we had a graveyard? Would have been kind of cool to have PC names in there as a memory. But the emphasis was more on the community
I definitely clicked on this video because the thumbnail made me think you were saying squirrels can handle campaigns. On one hand, I'm disappointed. On the other, this is a good video.
One of my pet peeves is people saying that 'Classic Traveller is an incomplete game because it has no character progression system.' Just because your character doesn't increase in skill level, doesn't mean there is no progression. Most Traveller campaigns revolve around facing a challenge the party can't solve, so they have to earn money or do work for a patron to get the equipment they need to solve the main challenge. Improving capabilities of the crew's ship is a central feature of lots of different types of Traveller campaigns. That is character progression, even if it isn't reflected in the character's stat lines or skill levels. Stepping off my soap box now.
Yeah, saying a game is "incomplete" because it doesn't have a certain feature you like is pretty crazy. It's hard to say it without sounding insulting, but some people really do need things spelled out for them in the book. To venture outside of what the book says just doesn't "register" with them for a lack of better words. It's similar to what's come up a few times in my chats with the Inn of Planar Crossroads. Some people really like spell lists that have descriptions for each, and they can come up with some really creative ways to use them that I would never think of. But give them the freedom of a magic system like EZD6 and they basically freeze. So it's not that they're "not creative", they just have a different way of getting there.
The very things that some folks feel required for a campaign will kill ot for somebody else. D&D style leveling changes the game so much that different level ranges feel like entirely different beasts. Your character and/or the game itself may just stop being what you want them to be. Crunchy systems can just burn you out if you're not after what that crunch does. If you want snappy dramatic fights when the system is designed for wargaming. Or if you have a strong vision of what the character should be, and the character system just isn't really designed to let you do it properly. For some players, narrative progress feels more meaningful than a stat increase. Character arcs, plot progress, clearly leaving their mark on the game world... I know folks in games with a lot of mechanical progress that would just never do it unless the narrative made it ferel right to them. Sitting on tons of unspent XP after years of play because it just wasn't relevant to them.
I got a buddy who is currently getting burned out on the crunch. He runs a lot of Pathfinder and D&D games, and despite being a big fan of Pathfinder, it's really starting to wear him down. It sounds a little silly, but juggling all those mechanics in your head, even if you're familiar with them, can wear you out as the GM. Rules Light can make your life a lot easier, depending on which way your brain works. "Different strokes", as they say. But it's still fun to observe the different methods. Never know when you might find something new you like!
Honestly I have never understood why people think a rules-heavy system is better for a campaign. Really, it's much better to use a light system. There's a lot less to keep track of with scaling encounters, it's much easier to keep encounters new and fresh, and you can focus on character development more.
Have you checked out Cairn at all? If not I think you might like it as it’s very much in line with these games and have a similar lineage to Mausritter which it appears you liked (haven’t watched that video yet). Plus it’s free.
I haven't got to that one yet, but I see it mentioned in the Discord a lot. Plus, my buddy who is also really into Mausritter likes it, so I'm pretty confident it's a good one (considering I also think Mausritter is pretty great).
@ second edition is backwards compatible with first edition and the whole of first edition is 24 digest sized pages so it’s a quick read. Will get you all the mechanical flavor.
Yet another certified W from the squirrel. In my opinion people have this backwards. The right "rules light" system is even better for a long-term campaign than a crunchier system. A lot of crunchy systems tend to focus on vertical progression (big number go brrr) whereas the primary lever to pull on progression in a rules light system is horizontal progression (gain new abilities/tools/gear rather than making the ones you already have stronger) which is just more fun to me? People enjoy what they enjoy, it's all subjective and all, but I've found over the years that my players are far more excited to find a use-case for the weird new ability they took than they are to take a test drive on their extra +1 to attack and damage. I've honestly gotten bored with Pathfinder campaigns far faster than I did playing a campaign of something like Mausritter or Vaults of Vaarn.
Plus a rules-light system opens up for the option of purely emergent progression. Rather than having a list of stuff to pick from, you develop based on the choices you made in the campaign. The party has succeeded in driving a gnoll clan out of the monastery that they were occupying, finding in the process a magical flail on the gnoll chieftan made from a human's skull that can be launched from the flail as a ranged attack, and as thanks for returning their monastery to them the Order of Being Real Good at Looking Cool has offered to train one of the party members in their hidden techniques, giving them a new feature that lets them wallrun. Had they instead befriended the gnolls and gotten rid of those pesky monks for them, they would have received the blessing of the Gnoll god of the Five Second Rule, letting them eat anything organic without consequence and some stupid roll of paper the gnolls found that they don't care about which turns out to be a prayer anyone can recite in order to bless 6 people with the ability to slow fall and double jump for 1 hour. I'm sure someone could do that in Pathfinder, but you'd have to wait for the players to pick their 18th feet and figure out if their two different +2 to hit bonuses stack or not before you could tell them about it.
We're on the same page. I think I mentioned it another video, but it seems like systems like D&D and Pathfinder would be the ones to get stale after so much play. If you have predetermined level up paths, even with some options along the way, you're going to end up playing the same thing sooner or later. Whereas with a rules light, your progression and growth is specific to the adventure you were playing like you mentioned.
I think it was the "Skills vs Classes" video I touched on that a little bit.
But hey, different strokes and all that. There's a reason Path of Exile is so popular, along with D&D and Pathfinder. Though I will say I do think there has been a rise in people wanting to get away from crunchier systems, but in reality that's probably just because there's been a rise in players across the board.
I'm running a space opera campaign using EZD6. Works just fine. Admittedly, our group is more focused on roleplaying in-character than a tactical wargame. The roleplaying of the character is our goal, not some sort of mechanical levelling up. EZD6 is a great system.
oooooo space opera you say? well well well, I'll just have to mosey over there and check it out
Yep, that's interesting, I was thinking of using ezd6 for space opera, share your exp - did you just reflavoured or made some homebrew? Did you use original ezd6 or wasteland one?
Omg this is amazing.
A small channel with an adorably cute mascot AND good videos?! I'm subscribing!
ayooooooooo welcome aboard! There's squirrel and nuts puns aplenty.
1:40 this will never get old
good thing because it's bound to happen again
Telling that tricube tales can't handle campaigns is a wild claim, that's for sure XD.
Cool video
People say some crazy things. Not as crazy as that turtle in your avatar though.
I think you reached the crux of the sticking point- at least for me.
I think a lot of people maybe be coming from video games, like me.
I came into gaming knowing nothing but leveling really, even some of the stuff via ocarina of time. Changing that mindset I think is tricky
It is, and to make it even worse, you can accrue video game time a LOT faster than you can TTRPG time since it's a lot easier to start playing, making the mindset all the more ingrained. And it's nothing against video games either. That leveling up approach they take is a key ingredient to feeling like you're progressing and getting somewhere due to the limitations of reality and not being able to program anything and everything under the sun into a single video game.
Whether it's Cities: Skylines where you're building a city or Skyrim where you're in a fantasy world taking quests, there's still a defined path of progression, because that's typically what a video game needs.
TTRPGs play a little different, or at least they can, and like you said, sometimes changing that mindset can be difficult. But man once you break that mindset it sure does open a world of possibilities.
@ oh for sure. Even now if I’m playing a video game I find myself breezing through it like I have to “get to the next objective”.
Even in games like pillars of eternity or BG3! What’s interesting is I feel like I used to be invested in some of the stories of older games with less crunchy progression a la Zelda games… but that shifted for me with KOTOR and KOTOR 2, but that was really the last story game that pulled me in
When I’ve tried solo ttrpg-ing it was definitely more engaging but also harder..probably because it’s new to me lol
@@vincentesposito4843 There's probably an argument to be made there that newer/more recent games focus way more on the "dopamine drip", tempting you with that level up. There's a reason roguelites sell so well (along with being cheaper/easier to make, leaving more budget for marketing). Whereas older games kept you playing with an interesting story and characters, or just wanting to explore "one more cave", or a mixture.
@ that totally makes sense. I honestly never “got” rogue lites but now that you say it- totally makes sense form a generational gap standpoint
Aside from HP increase and lower THAC0 when leveling, thats pretty much how we played BECMI D&D back in the day, prior to rules expansions.
Great video, Squirrel. And, as a bonus, you also gave viewers a little glimpse on how to plan adventures and drop a little foreshadowing and adventure nuts along the way, i mean seeds, adventure seeds...
Keep up the good work, and be careful you don't go "too far" out on that limb. Its a nasty drop🤪
Well thanks for the kind words, but also Adventure Nuts! I'm going to have to remember that one. Also yes, it is a long drop. Gotta be careful when talking about certain things.
Excellent! Also, connections, allies, reputation, and status, and the resources they afford.
I'd like to do more with reputation at some point. The first campaign I ran would have been a good one for it, as they were rooted pretty firmly in a single city. Being recognized could be a lot of fun, especially when you go somewhere a bunch of people don't like what you've done.
Excellent as always, sir.
A squirrel of quality, you might say
I will add a caveat on games that kind of put themselves in a position specifically not to have long campaigns. Blood & Bronze is a system I have been looking into and the Rank up system is money based. It wouldn't be unreasonable for smart or lucky players to get rank ups pretty fast, even if they aren't fighting human enemies. Not to mention the longer term detriments for some classes using their abilities. Some systems are made for the characters to be around for a good time, not a long time.
Thanks for another great video! You clarified more thoughts on my own system once again.
Also, I've been noticing squirrels at work now since seeing that channel on Discord... 😆
I'll have to check that one out. Mausritter definitely braces you for not being around for long, but at the same time does provide a way for you to grow if you can make it. Money based growth always catches my attention though. One of these days I'll get to try it in a TTRPG.
Also yes - the squirrels are everywhere. Watch out!
Nice! It's also worth noting that both systems have additional supplements that include expanded options for advancement -- DM Scotty's Brain Candy (for EZD6) and Tricube Tactics (for Tricube Tales).
Shhhh! We can't talk about Tricube Tactics yet because I haven't got to play. Therefore it doesn't officially exist. But on that note, me and Avenue Studios are looking to be geared up to play Tricube Tales on Feb 15th. The plan is to run Tactics shortly after that too. I'm super stoked, because Jacob is going to be running both of them and Tricube seems like something right up his alley. Gonna be a good time.
Skrat: "No pun intended"
Me: ...press X to doubt...
~ Adam
honest to goodness
"Space book says bad"
Talking squirrel is a mutant they also claim!
Stay tuned for more at Eleven.
nobody expected the surprise lore drop on saxophone squirrel
I don't generally use advancement in EZD6 campaigns though I do usually give extra aspects for particularly epic achievements.
Adding HP isn't something I'd use because it decreases the risk element but it would work well for most fantasy settings.
Adding HP in something like EZD6 or Tricube is pretty big buff considering you only get 3. But it is still an option! Might reserve that one for a super magical shield or something.
@@asquirrelplays something on that level I guess! I do like to keep my players worried though 🤣
I'm currently planning a hex crawl in Cairn and these are roughly the principles I'm following. It has a neat SCAR system to improve PCs but it is a bit hit or miss when it gets triggered. To supplement, I'm making some homebrew items, relics, etc and plan on giving PCs abilities based on how their role in the party naturally develops. Like magic is pretty uncommon and usually requires a spellbook to cast spells, I'm planning on adding a grimoire that can hold 3 spellbooks in one inventory slot and maybe introduce the idea of cantrips that don't require a spellbook or can be indefinitely added to one inventory slot. But players won't unlock this unless someone in the party is really invested in magic
Likewise for stealthy or tankier characters I have relics that will ignore the armor of a enemy if certain conditions are met and require different recharge methods
"SCAR" sounds like an awesome acronym lol. I didn't get into it in the video, but one thing you can do with the magical items when trying to "level up" a character is make the magical item limited if you're not fully confident in its balance. That way if it's a bit over-tuned, you won't have to worry about it when it runs dry. And if it ends being balanced just right? You can come up with a way for them to charge it back up or prevent it from draining. Another quest!
Just hope you don't get the player that refuses to try it out until you get to an important boss fight and then unloads the entire thing 😒
I always try to tell people that light rules systems can handle long-term campaigns, and I usually use the Zelda videogames as examples. There are other ways to measure progression: gear, reputation, fame, or money.
However, for some players, only the numbers matter.
EZD6 mentions "land, title, fortifications, or small businesses" as some of the long-term play rewards you could do. And honestly, after seeing the enjoyment the players had in my first campaign by owning and upgrading a tavern, that is 100% something to do. Actually ... I might just have to make a video on that.
"Interesting mounts or means of transport" is another thing EZD6 mentions, and who doesn't like an awesome mount? Especially when it can hold more loot to bring back home.
It's about what you are looking for in an rpg. Personally, I love light systems because I just want to be a part of an action story that has some rules to make logic in combat consistent. However, other people are more wargame oriented and want to be able to make character builds.
Very much so. I can understand the appeal of growing a character, leveling, getting new abilities and all that and just hacking your way through one dungeon after another, but I can also dig the more "free-flow" approach of growth being unique to your character and specific to that adventure. That's more interesting to me, but again, different strokes, different folks. And that's all fine and dandy so long as everyone finds the right table.
I love the hell out of the idea of rules lite. I have 5 torches deep, but it is really on the lite side of things. I have some ways to spice it up a little, but in the end I keep coming back to - why am I putting work into someone else's game when I could put the same effort into my own.
I have a couple of ideas in the works and in theory they will work just fine and they get away from the DND clone epidemic. I think when a game is too much like DND, like 5td is, people are always comparing it, and it is just lackluster. However, if anything, 5TD was inspirational.
That "why am I putting work into someone else's game" is what pushed me towards making my own too. I was trying to make what was essentially an overhaul for 5e. I wanted a way people could still make the characters they wanted and pick all their spells and abilities, then run it all through a "converter" basically that simplified things so combat wouldn't take 3 days.
At some point I realized it was very silly to spend time "fixing" someone else's multi-million dollar mistake when I could just make something from the ground up and call it my own. And then I could make my own mistakes!
ive seen people ask if the cypher system (a game with a level up system and story arcs built into the core book) can handle a long term campaign because it "only has 6 tiers". Nevermind that getting to those tiers takes 16 xp and you only expect a player to get 2-4 xp per session on average so thats 8*5 = 40 on the short side and 4*5 = 20 on the longer side and theres other things to do for players with xp than level up, like reroll or short/long term benefits. Honestly sometime i think that if a system has xp in the single digits, people lose their minds, not even mentioning games without xp
hey I'm actually somewhat familiar with the Cyper System! I even played a game of DimDay Red with Dean, who I believe is connected to it somehow? Haven't played Cypher, but it does seem pretty cool. ANYWAY - you're very right about single digit XP. If you want a fun rabbit hole to go down, look up why video games are designed with the numbers they use. The damage in/out ratio can be the same, but when you fluff the numbers up, it makes people want to play more. It's kinda crazy, really.
Classic Traveller had zero PC skill growth, and I have read about campaigns that ran for years. Of course in Traveller PCs are supposed to experienced professionals at the beginnig of the campaign. Newer versions do have PC skill growth but is very slow. PCs grow by acquiring new gear, better ships, and the dreaded narrative stuff like friends, allies, and the worst thing...a cool story of the PCs adventures.
I've always found actual leveling like in D&D to be a very clunky and completely unrealistic way to increase the skill and power of the PCs. Slower more organic growth as is found in most skill based RPGs is a much better way to do it.
I definitely agree with you that if you think rules light RPGs can't be used for longer campaigns, the problem isn't the system, but the people playing the game. I engage in sandbox gaming with emergent play being the end goal of the narrative exercise. The whole point of a campaign isn't to see how many plusses the PCs can aquire before the end, but to find out how the cool ass story of their deeds plays out. For me the collaborative storytelling inherent in TTRPs is what makes these games so unique, and you don't need tons of rules and bells and whistles for that to happen. All you need is a coherent system that can be used to facilitate the creation of an emerging storyline.
I've also found with lighter rule sets PCs often have access to a lot of the cool shit they can do either immediately or fairly early in the campaign. With something like 5e, it could take months or even years for PCs to gain access to even half the cool shit they can do. I want PCs to be badass at the beginning!
oooo starting off as experienced professionals would be interesting. Instead of the meme of "I'm a master wizard at level 1 with almost no spells". Getting to start off actually experienced and good but also with slow progression could be really neat.
I think there's a rise in people lately realizing they don't need much to run a game or campaign. Like you said, just something basic/coherent to keep it grounded and make sense. But at the same time, D&D's popularity continues to spread, pulling in entirely new people that think that's just how TTRPGs work.
Another similar topic is "This game can't be used solo". When in fact, you can solo any game! All it takes is some oracles of some sort and you're good to go! (e.g. Mythic and other random tables)
Ooooo that could be a fun video. Unfortunately, I've done so little solo stuff, I'm not sure I'm "fit enough" to do that one just yet. But I like the idea!
Might have to rope in some of those solo gurus like Caverna Do Lekkis.
@@asquirrelplays Yep! Any of the solo vtubers should have more info and know how. They'll all say it's possible, but that some games are harder than others. Mysteries can be done too!
@@Avenger222 a solo mystery? Now that I'd like to see how works. You got any names/recommendations for solo ttrpgers? I know like ... 1 and a half.
@@asquirrelplays Mythic Magazine Volume 6 goes through how to Mystery solo. Has lots of advice and provides ways to do it. Mythic Magazine Volume 47 contains the one-page mystery crafter. Then there's The Between and Brindlewood Bay, since they don't start with the mystery solution determined, those can be modified for solo quite easily. Same concepts!
@@asquirrelplays For specific solo ttrpgers that have done mysteries, I'm unsure! I know Man alone, The dungeon dive, and dave thaumavore have done videos on solo mystery stuff before.
Get GUD SCRUB
you can't make me
Had to leave half way to listen to eye of the tiger with the saxophone
well lucky for you I (should) always have the links in the description! Can't tell you how many videos I've seen with catchy music I wanted to listen to and there was no mention or way to find it.
But on that note, that was a pretty solid version of it. I had never heard it before making the video. 10/10 would doot doot again.
@ next you need a picture of a squirrel playing the saxophone and don’t forget the sunglasses
Campaigns are about an ongoing episodic story.
Neither progression nor mechanical crunch have anything to do with storytelling or campaigns. That's roll play not roleplay.
Instead advancing the story's points, building relationships, finding knowledge, recovering specific props, and even traveling to specific locations are all elements used to move a campaign's forward. Leveling up, has zero relationship to any of that.
This kind of thinking is what happens when players learn how to DM from people who write collectible card games.
Great material keep up the good work.
"That's roll play, not roleplay" - that's solid. I'm gonna have to remember that one. Great way to summarize it. Why didn't I think of that?
another fine video. thanks dad.....
I'm not your daaaaaaaaad!
I had no idea you could destroy that tube! 😭
whaaaaaaaat? I know it's been a while but don't you have to in order to finish the game? When I was searching for the footage I actually found an entire video dedicated to talking about that specific moment lol and you know what? Dude was right. It was a game changer.
If I remember right, little child me picked up on the clue where you find another tube just like it in an enclosed space but it's already busted.
My two cents:
1¢ It does and doesn’t put more work on the GM (maybe even the players). There’s more creative work, more tweaking and stuff. But while on paper it’s objectively easier and less work, finding the approach rules, finding out if there even are appropriate rules, figuring out exactly how they work, figuring out how to adjust them when the situations aren’t as clean as described in the book etc etc all adds lots of time and effort. Just different kinds.
2¢ I far prefer mechanical leveling to simply story telling or basically adding a new skin to a character, but in no way does this need to be codified, linear or balanced. If you remember the end of the BREAK!! campaign, Steph’s character got their arm mangled. Had we continued he would have had to make a choice of what to do next. Patch and dress it up but leave it there, useless? Amputate? He was a magical character so maybe magical healing or magical arm? Mechanical arm? Each have different mechanical and role playing elements to them. While BREAK!! isn’t rules lite, that character development didn’t rely on any established rules nor would have been particularly complicated or difficult to work out.
A bonus, 3¢ Like was mentioned in the Discord, the world developing can also be huge. This probably doesn’t work as well with big, world saving quests, but for example with the Roothaven campaign (Mausritter), you guys gained the ability to communicate with spiders as ambassadors. You also were on the way I believe to helping those one skeleton mice to escape the tree which would have caused all sorts of reactions within the greater community. So you’re watching the world developing and watching your place within that world change
Yeah, I really wanted to get into the banes/quirks part of growing where things don't exactly go your way, but it only got an honorable mention at the end. In Steph's case, it could have been a magical replacement or something more mechanical. Giving him both pros and cons to the new "feature" is a great way to not only grow, but make the growth unique to that adventure. Losing his arm would be a detriment/bane/quirk/whatever for a period, but then it could eventually get replaced with something else, making him stronger than he initially was (with some possible drawbacks).
Also the way we were changing the world in Mausritter was fantastic, and yet another method that I didn't get time to talk about. And now that I think about it, that's probably a better way to go in Mausritter since you're so expendable in that one.
@ Yeah, remember that we had a graveyard? Would have been kind of cool to have PC names in there as a memory. But the emphasis was more on the community
@@crallsfickle2994 Don't put Brynn in the graveyard 😭
@ don’t kill him
I definitely clicked on this video because the thumbnail made me think you were saying squirrels can handle campaigns. On one hand, I'm disappointed. On the other, this is a good video.
Well I'm glad you enjoyed it but now I want to put dice out for the squirrels and see what they do.
One of my pet peeves is people saying that 'Classic Traveller is an incomplete game because it has no character progression system.' Just because your character doesn't increase in skill level, doesn't mean there is no progression. Most Traveller campaigns revolve around facing a challenge the party can't solve, so they have to earn money or do work for a patron to get the equipment they need to solve the main challenge. Improving capabilities of the crew's ship is a central feature of lots of different types of Traveller campaigns. That is character progression, even if it isn't reflected in the character's stat lines or skill levels. Stepping off my soap box now.
Yeah, saying a game is "incomplete" because it doesn't have a certain feature you like is pretty crazy. It's hard to say it without sounding insulting, but some people really do need things spelled out for them in the book. To venture outside of what the book says just doesn't "register" with them for a lack of better words.
It's similar to what's come up a few times in my chats with the Inn of Planar Crossroads. Some people really like spell lists that have descriptions for each, and they can come up with some really creative ways to use them that I would never think of. But give them the freedom of a magic system like EZD6 and they basically freeze. So it's not that they're "not creative", they just have a different way of getting there.
The baby 👾
I’m just over a year and a half into my shadowdark campaign! If anything my players are too powerful haha
Year and a half? You must have started that campaign as soon as the game came out! Or is time getting away from me again
The very things that some folks feel required for a campaign will kill ot for somebody else.
D&D style leveling changes the game so much that different level ranges feel like entirely different beasts. Your character and/or the game itself may just stop being what you want them to be.
Crunchy systems can just burn you out if you're not after what that crunch does. If you want snappy dramatic fights when the system is designed for wargaming. Or if you have a strong vision of what the character should be, and the character system just isn't really designed to let you do it properly.
For some players, narrative progress feels more meaningful than a stat increase. Character arcs, plot progress, clearly leaving their mark on the game world...
I know folks in games with a lot of mechanical progress that would just never do it unless the narrative made it ferel right to them. Sitting on tons of unspent XP after years of play because it just wasn't relevant to them.
I got a buddy who is currently getting burned out on the crunch. He runs a lot of Pathfinder and D&D games, and despite being a big fan of Pathfinder, it's really starting to wear him down.
It sounds a little silly, but juggling all those mechanics in your head, even if you're familiar with them, can wear you out as the GM. Rules Light can make your life a lot easier, depending on which way your brain works.
"Different strokes", as they say. But it's still fun to observe the different methods. Never know when you might find something new you like!
Any ttrpg can handle campaigns if you use ✨Diegetic Progression ✨
This guy knows what's up
I think the pun was intended 😊
you can't prove it!
zup dude
you became a squirrel!
@@asquirrelplays I kept my promise!
Instead of a level up, ill take 20 pitons
Only because it's you, I think I'd rather give you the level up
Honestly I have never understood why people think a rules-heavy system is better for a campaign. Really, it's much better to use a light system. There's a lot less to keep track of with scaling encounters, it's much easier to keep encounters new and fresh, and you can focus on character development more.
gotta have that crunch! (not really though). I'm a big fan of having less to keep up with.
Have you checked out Cairn at all? If not I think you might like it as it’s very much in line with these games and have a similar lineage to Mausritter which it appears you liked (haven’t watched that video yet). Plus it’s free.
I haven't got to that one yet, but I see it mentioned in the Discord a lot. Plus, my buddy who is also really into Mausritter likes it, so I'm pretty confident it's a good one (considering I also think Mausritter is pretty great).
@ second edition is backwards compatible with first edition and the whole of first edition is 24 digest sized pages so it’s a quick read. Will get you all the mechanical flavor.
Calendar and Sanity handles campaign, not Rules.
sanity is what I keep forgetting to bring