Vincent Price was great. It seemed like he never took himself too seriously. He had a great sense of humor as evidenced by him playing the villain Egghead on the Batman television series from the 1960s. Some actors might have thought it beneath them to play this role but I am thinking he thought it would be just plain fun to do that role. As did a lot of other actors who lined up to play villains of that show. Thanks for the video.
When Leiber and Stoller were asked what they were thinking of when they wrote a song called "Hound Dog", the diplomatic answer was "nothing". In fact, the answer would have been too risque for 1958 network TV, even at 10:30 PM. The composers were 19 years old when they wrote the song at the behest of Johnny Otis for Big Mama Thornton, an earthy, raunchy, black singer/comedienne who weighed anywhere from 280 to 350 pounds and had a scarred face. They wanted to write a song that would convey her persona and raw sexuality without being too risque for air play. They settled on the phrase "hound dog", a term in black culture for a man looking for a woman to support him. Ironically, probably because of who wrote the song, Thornton started to croon the song like Sinatra or Como. Leiber gingerly protested and there were tense moments until he demonstrated how he wanted her to belt it out. When she realized they had really written a song in her style, she caught on fast, made a few changes and the second of two takes was eventually released for air play and became a #1 R&B hit in 1952. If the WML team didn't like the Elvis version, imagine how they would have felt about Thornton's version. Not exactly the type of song you would have expected from 19 year old Jewish boys. Even more unexpected than a Jewish mayor of Dublin. ruclips.net/video/yoHDrzw-RPg/видео.html Johnny Otis was supposed to produce the record. But the drummer wasn't getting the hang of the beat. So Otis reluctantly at first went behind the drum kit and let the kids produce the record. And so Leiber and Stoller became record producers as well as songwriters. While Elvis is said to have done a cover version of Thornton's song (which he admired and owned a copy of), his version is nearly identical to a parody rewrite of the song by Feddie Bell and the Bellboys for their Las Vegas act. The new sanitized lyrics made no sense, to the disdain of Leiber, the original lyricist. But when Elvis recorded that version, Leiber and Stoller got a lot more in royalties than they ever received on Thornton's version. Elvis reworked the song a few times in performances before it was recorded. But perhaps the two most important performances of the song occurred on television. The first was on Milton Berle's show, still a top draw at the time with an estimated viewership of 40 million. Berle told Elvis to come out without his guitar so the audience could see him. It was that performance that brought the attacks on Elvis for being sexually provocative and morally degenerate. And some of the WML reaction to rock 'n roll is related to that one show. The second was on Steve Allen's show, where he had Elvis sing the song to a basset hound with Elvis wearing a tuxedo and the hound wearing a top hat. The next day, an angry Elvis and his backing musicians recorded the song at a much faster tempo with anger at the edge of Elvis's voice. From then on, that was the version he sang in concert and on two performances on Ed Sullivan's show.
To Ms. Simmons: "While Elvis is said to have done a cover version of Thornton's song (which he admired and owned a copy of), his version is nearly identical to a parody rewrite of the song by Freddie Bell and the Bellboys for their Las Vegas act." Actually according to a new book called "Cover Me: The Stories Behind the Greatest Cover Songs of All Time", Elvis Presley supposedly had no idea of Thornton's version's existence. He heard Freddie Bell and his band doing it live and decided to record it himself. So what is the real nitty-gritty here?
+Jeffrey Slott Well, my understanding is that Elvis actually owned a copy of the record. He liked all kinds of music: country/western, r&b, bluegrass, gospel, spirituals and pretty much everything else you could sing to. He used to sneak out of his (white) church on Sunday mornings and go down the street to hear the music in the black church (which was where he picked up some of his leg movements that he used when he sang). He recorded for Sun Records. That's the same label that released "Bear Cat" by Rufus Thomas, a parody of "Hound Dog" for which Sam Phillips was sued and had to give up a lot of the profit he made on "Bear Cat". According to Peter Guralnick's "Last Train to Memphis", "Whenever [Bob] Neal [Elvis's manager before Col. Parker] went by [Elvis's] house, he found him with a stack of records - Ray Charles and Big Joe Turner and Big Mama Thornton and Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup - that he studied with all the avidity that other kids focused on their college exams." Also in that book, Scotty Moore is quoted as saying that Elvis already knew "Hound Dog" before he heard Freddie Bell's version in Vegas. Finally, according to Leiber and Stoller, they were prepared to hate Elvis because of how his version of :Hound Dog", now the most well-known version, had bastardized the version they wrote. But when they actually met him for the first time (to work on the movie, "Jailhouse Rock"), they found that Elvis was a kindred spirit, a white person who knew r&b as well as they did (a rare thing at that time). Knowing what I know about the music scene in post-WWII Memphis, knowing about Sam Phillips, Dewey Phillips, and BB King, having visited the museums at Sun Records and Stax Records former locations, my best guess is that Elvis was very familiar with Big Mama Thornton's version of "Hound Dog". But the only way to know for sure is to catch his ghost on Union Avenue (probably near the Sun Records studio) and follow him up to the gates of Graceland and ask him. ruclips.net/video/PTVbf44HMkY/видео.html
+Jeffrey Slott Oh, and just to set the record straight, the most well-known version of "The Nitty Gritty" was recorded by Shirley Ellis! ruclips.net/video/1VrcpXbPN4w/видео.html
@@jeffreyslott3883 there always has to be that one douchebag to undermine black success or recognition, ignoring all the facts. Miss Simmons shut you up!
Bennett opened up a can of worms this time when he made a completely unnecessary comment to the Lord Mayor.. I'm glad Mr. Briscoe took him to task. John, who treated the Lord Mayor of Dublin with great respect, must have been terribly embarrassed if not greatly annoyed at Bennett.
What I like about these shows is we got to see how Rock & Roll was being talked about during it's birth, all the pro's and con's. So I can tell that when The Beatles made it and came over here, how and what our parents felt about them. That's why I'm glad I'm a Baby Boomer, we got to see so much history being made as we grew up.
I don't think I realized how tall Vincent Price was until he stood to shake hands behind the panel desk. 6'4". Everyone who dealt with him professionally said he was one of the nicest people they ever knew. When he died in 1992, our local ABC news anchor said that he'd had the opportunity to interview Price when he first started as a TV news reporter, was nervous as all get out, and Price put him at ease and proved to be such a nice man. Of course, he'd made a career of playing macabre roles.
I had the chance to meet him at around 1985 at a St Louis Community College. Just was in the right place at the right time. Very nice man! He was there to do some narrating, not sure exactly what for.
My daughter met him in 1985 at Truman University in Kirksville, MO. He was a big fan of the university and came there at least 2-3 times a year to take part in stuff going on. I never found out exactly what it was that interested him about the school. (I think the name of the school back then was Northeast MO.
13:53 Leiber and Stoller were as prolific a songwriting duo as the Beatles were in the 60s, and their work spanned three decades with an endless number of Top 40 hits -- many of which most of us my age would recognize in a second. Many of their compositions made otherwise obscure singers and groups famous, and some who were already well established turned their compositions into solid gold records. John Daly wished them continued success and that wish was certainly granted in their case. Some of their well-known hits I didn't even know that they were the composers! Stoller is still alive today.
It's amusing that the most legendary people among the guests in this episode (Lieber & Stoller) were almost completely unknown, at least by sight at this time.
Wow Vincent Price, Lieber & Stoler, and Jack Paar all in one show... quite a range of 50s pop culture on one stage! The panel were obviously rather skeptical of that rock & roll business. :-)
@@sferrell1000 Because the Twist was considered (in it's second coming particularly in 1961-2) as au courant and cosmopolitan while rock and roll in 1958 was considered greasy and dirty. At least that's what the talk is at the insane asylum.
@@MrJoeybabe25 This is not so far from reality. On March 25, 1956, after Alan Freed's Big Beat Show Rock n' Roll Show in Hartford, CT ended with several arrests, Dr. Francis Graceland, chief psychiatrist at the Institute of Living, a psychiatric hospital in Hartford, said "Rock n' Roll is a communicable disease driving teenagers to do outlandish things." As an aside, my father, who was a psychologist, knew and worked with Dr. Braceland.
I love how the panelists (and John Daly)still think of Rock&Roll as a silly (and annoying) novelty ...Arlene was the only one still on panel the day they had Franz Zappa on as the Mystery Guest, would've been a treat to see Dorothy and Bennett's reaction to him
17.28 - "I hope you have a chance to enjoy it and then go on and perhaps do some more serious things in music" - Right, John. Nearly 60 years later and still waiting for that rock & roll fad to end so Jerry and Mike can be taken more seriously. ;-) For those of you who don't know, the duo also wrote the song Stand by Me for Ben E. King.
Yes, rock has continued, but it no longer holds the stage it once did. It goes through cycles. Presently it's overshadowed by hip/hop, various forms of dance music and other pop genres. Demographics are destiny.
Actually, they did write "Is That All There Is?" Of course, this was a big hit for Peggy Lee. So they did go (at least for a while) in a more cabaret-style direction.
Just amazing - at least Vincent Price knew they were rich at that time. Now they are legendary names in "that fad" rock n roll, still making money over 60 years later.
I think what is most interesting is how people didn't yet realize the potential artistry and artistic achievement of the form. The Beatles, Stones, Dylan, all still to come. . .
Fascinating banter by all involved around the notion of this new fad 'rock n roll' and the "cashing-in-while-it's-popular" nature of the two composers sitting quietly. To think that only NINE years later, Jimi Hendrix would be on stage and literally setting his guitar on fire with oil and a burning match.
I have to smile: Mr. Briscoe gave it to Bennett pretty good. Really put Bennett in his place. Interesting that Mr. Briscoe was a Jewish politician. Very cool. Bennett, Arlene and Vincent stood up for him while Dorothy continued sitting but she and Mr. Briscoe seemed to have a lively little exchange.
Kate Luxor Bennet's questions as the guest is about to exit are often irritating ( although I like Bennett) but he sure got his comeuppance on this very windy reply from the good Lord Mayor
I will give the Lord Mayor full marks. His response was measured and exact with extreme careful wording and consideration. Kinda like how we wish people in the public eye in today's age would act.
Whatever the facts surrounding the plays not being performed, and it is possible that a politician is not telling the entire truth (no specificity with the supposed technical issues was offered for either play), Bennett deserves credit for raising the question whether O'Casey and Joyce plays were censored, and he might not have been able to have determined the truth of the allegations that he presumably read or heard from reliable sources, other by asking Mr. Briscoe. Whatever personal characteristics Cerf had that can be irritating, Cerf's greatest accomplishment as a publisher was to create a test case that led to a landmark First Amendment case that led Cerf to be the first to publish Ulysses anywhere in the English speaking word, creating a precedent that reduced censorship (the book had been claimed to be illegal on obscenity grounds). Naturally, Cerf, having devoted time and resources to publishing Ulysses as a personal commitment to its literary greatness following a groundbreaking lawsuit, would have been troubled by the possibility that a Joyce based play, or O'Casey for that matter had been censored for its content, regardless of any possibly pretext for such an action, would have publicly stood up for the rights of publication and performance of works by literary masters and their publishers and producers.
@@preppysocks209 -except, such a question does not belong on a game show. I fully support Mr. Cerf's right to challenge, to ask questions, to stand up for what he believes is right. but this game show is neither the time or the place. Mr. Cerf could have asked the same question backstage. Also, since Mr.Briscoe was not representing Ireland or the people who rejected the plays, i think Mr. Cerf would have been out of line for asking the question anywhere.
@@MrYfrank14 I respect where you are coming from but I also respect what Bennett did here. And Mr. Briscoe seemed not only to have been prepared to address the issue, but welcomed the chance to tell the public his side of the story. It seems that he himself preferred to respond to these questions that had been in the media in public since he spent a great deal of time, uninterrupted, in responding. John or someone appeared to say "hear, hear" when he finished and the various panelists and audience applauded afterward. I do not know who is right, but again reviewing the clip, Mr. Briscoe's defense seems very vague, concerning unspecified "technical" reasons for the O'Casey play not being produced and the director's unwillingness to make certain changes to remove objectionable "content" with the Joyce-derived play are more than suggestive of censorship. If that is true, that adds to supporting Bennett here -- the last word went to Briscoe, and given time, we don't know what evidentiary basis Bennett had for asking his question. As to whether it belonged on a game show, John would sometimes ignore a panelist's question after the game concluded and dismiss the guest and he did not do so here. He and Bennett and Dorothy were all journalists and this was a TV program so I think the subject of censorship could have been fairly brought up on a show like this -- it isn't "The Gong Show." I don't think the matter is black and white. Bennett was not compelled to raise the subject, and I understand why someone could feel as you do. I think the best test of appropriateness would be to see whether Mr. Briscoe thought the question was disrespectful or out of line, and his reaction suggests that he welcomed the chance to address the subject and had prepared what he would say if the matter came up.
Bennett, knowing everyone in the world as he does, appears to have had previous discussions with the Lord Mayor. Mr. Briscoe hasn't been on WML before, but he tells Bennett, at 11:02, 'You are again, as I explained to you last year, accepting statements as facts and asking questions that don't really comply with the facts.' I suspect Bennett met him on vacation. Or talked to him about publishing, though Briscoe's 1958 autobiography was published (in the US) by Little Brown. Of course, I suppose their having arguments might well lead to Mr. Briscoe seeking out a different publishing company... Also, Stand-Up Watch: Arlene does, Dorothy doesn't, but Mr. Briscoe and Dorothy have quite a confab at the end.
Well, since the Lord Mayor mentioned speaking to Mr Cerf previously, and since Mr. Daly said just after the Lord Mayor signed in that he'd been on the programme before, then perhaps your assertion that the Lord Mayor hadn't appeared on the programme before is incorrect. Just a thought...
One of TV's all time Greats! The unforgettable Jack Paar. As a pre-teen I used to stay up way past my bed time watching an old TV with Jack Paar. I used the same old RCA to watch What's My Line. No wonder I couldn't get up for school!
This is almost instantly popped in my head if I were a schooler at the time I would be sad cause I watched this and didn’t do my homework. Now the whole archive is open and we can watch anytime we want. Not fair. *sighs*
Jack Paar was quite the urbane talk show host. Remember watching him late night when I was in grade school. Men of his character are absent from all late night tv these days.
Amazing how in 1958 rock and roll was still considered something derided by Ms. Francis and even wished by Mr. Daly that they would eventually go on to something "more serious."
Serf's very tasteful speech about books and their benefits has a whiff of being necessary in light of the technology of the day (chiefly television!) replacing reading activities! Way back in 1958. :) and....WOW didn't he have to take a rather firm response on the chin from the first guest after asking a rather sensitive question? He took it so well too....as of course he only could during a family show! But still, I do like Serf. A sound guy.
As background to Bennett's argument with the former Lord Mayor of Dublin, Bennett Cerf was first in the United States to publish James Joyce's Ulysses in its complete, unabridged form, having previously fought the government for the right to publish it after the government had declared it obscene in a different case. So while Bennett may have been out of line in calling out the Lord Mayor on what's supposed to be a lighthearted, family-friendly television show, this was an issue very dear to Bennett's heart. It's clear from the Lord Mayor's rather sanctimonious reply that the plays in question were indeed canceled because of their controversial content and not because of any refusal to make "technical changes" in the one case or the play being found "rather not to suit" (whatever that means) in the other.
AT LAST....WELL DONE Arlene for suggesting a name during a conference QUIETLY so that the audience don't hear and ruin it by applauding. That's the way to do it for a better reveal.
But the key here is that Mr. Daly completely allowed him to speak. He (and producers) may not have liked the idea of the subject at hand, but kudos to JCD for clamming up.
It's surprising that Lieber and Stoller were not known by name or by reputation after Elvis Presley broke through with their songs. In another episode Rogers and Hammerstein were the mystery guests, but they were in a more established musical tradition and closer to the theatre world of Arlene Francis. Elvis was never a guest on the show but other, older singers were: Frank Sinatra, Andy Williams, Bobby Darin, Johnny Ray, Sammy Davis Junior, Frankie Laine and jazz stars such as Lena Horne and Louis Armstrong. Maybe Elvis was not considered 'safe' for family viewing.
Hilarious how the panel, only one of whom was Jewish, asked about pork and Lent.😂 How ironic, too.😂 With everything that Bennett Cerf knew, I’m shocked that he didn’t know that that mayor was Jewish and therefore, it was logical that he would’ve been dealing in kosher meat. I wasn’t surprised over the mayor’s second interest, because I knew that he was Jewish - and a very self-confident, polished mayor - who wasn’t ashamed to tell the world that he was a Jew.
There have been some comments made about the confusion for John Daly and the panel members about fur versus hair versus hide. I find it more incredible that: 1) Bennett had to correct Arlene that pork doesn't come from cows 2) Bennett insisting that calfskin comes from unborn cows. (Most versions come from young cattle, but only one version comes from unborn cattle.) 3) Despite Robert Briscoe being known well enough in the U.S. and especially to these panel members that they would be aware that he was Jewish, that they would think of him being associated with pork before they arrived on beef as the meat he was associated with. And then after stumbling around and arguing about these matters, the panel looks down their noses at rock and roll composers? I usually love this show and the regular members of the panel, but this episode was one of their low points.
At the time Rock and Roll was a bit more of a "Fad" and most of 'cultured' background had little understanding of it. Always remember the one key line in the movie "Back to the Future" where Marty was playing the guitar: "But your kids will love it......."
I may be wrong but I do believe this is during the feud between Dorothy and Jack paar. I never really liked him, a lot of people said he had a bad temper and would always make a big ass of himself even if it meant getting his way. He once said he was going to quit I think it was the tonight show (but I may be wrong) saying that the news papers and reporters are giving him and his family a hard time (which wasn't necessarily true)and he did it on live television (and started to fake cry) with it ending with him walking off stage. Dorothy said in column that he was doing this all for publicity but that was after they had a feud that had been going on for a while.
I was reading recently about the sinking of the Andrea Doria in 1956, when it collided with the Stockholm off the Massachusetts coast in the last years of the ocean liner era. To this day, survivors of the disaster, and fortunately all but 46 people survived, meet up. I don't know whether he attends, but Mike Stoller was one of the surviving passengers from the disaster. Enough time elapsed before the ship sank, that the passengers who survived the crash were brought to New York on other ships. Leiber met Stoller on the dock after his ordeal. Stoller had been in Europe for some time. He and Stoller had written "Hound Dog" several years earlier, and it had been recorded by Big Mama Thornton. Stoller had been in Europe for some time. Lieber told Stoller that while he was away, and unbeknownst to Stoller, a Mississippi singer named Elvis Presley had recorded the song and had had a huge hit. Stoller's reply, "Elvis who?"
Used to watch Jack Paar when he back on television in the 1970s with a late night show on ABC. I miss his type of show. Jack, Phil Donahue and David Susskind were the best. This stuff on how is just fun, games, making fun of people for sport, mindless chatter and the latenight hosts nowdays (Colbert, Kimmel and Fallon) don't like controversy. Jack loved to take on those types of guests and though he may have disagreed with their opinions, he still treated them with respect even when he disagreed with them. When I saw the names "Stoller and Leiber" I recognized them as song composers. You have to keep in mind that this was 1958 and there was no Social Media so it was probably very easy to be a famous song writer but still go unnoticed. Today, when someone writes a big hit song, people want to know "who wrote that!"
As young (mid-20's) composers of R&B and rock 'n roll music, they were not known to the members of the panel. Dorothy is heard to say that rock 'n roll inflicts pain on her. Even though "Hound Dog" was originally written for Big Mama Thornton in 1952 and Elvis crossed over with it to reach #1 on the pop, R&B and country charts in 1956, that didn't make Leiber and Stoller household names yet, especially with the WML team. They were only starting to learn the names of the major singers appreciated by the "Bobby Soxers" of that time. The composers were just names on 45 record labels that these people didn't go anywhere near. I was surprised that Dorothy had heard of a song that had come out around the same time as "Don't", "Don't Let Go" (written by Jesse Stone, sung by Roy Hamilton and produced by Otis Blackwell). That song reached #2 on the R&B charts and #13 on the pop charts. Blackwell is the person who wrote two hit songs for Elvis: "Don't Be Cruel" and "All Shook Up". ruclips.net/video/nnRV7G7-xd0/видео.html The only other artists for whom Leiber and Stoller wrote pop hits before this episode aired was the crossover from R&B group, The Coasters. (Although the song mentioned by John Daly, "Black Denim Trousers and Motorcycle Boots", reached #6 on the pop charts, it was basically a novelty song.)
+Frank Sadat You are 100% correct, as was +Julian Prewett. My comments were intended to expand the topic, not to disagree with the original poster. If I had, I would have addressed them directly by citing his name the same as I have highlighted your name at the beginning of my reply.
Cerf and the former Mayor of Dublin are discussing a Stage -play, and James Joyce is mentioned, but the only play I can find, which was prohibited at a stage in Dublin 1958, was Sam Thompson's "Over the Bridge". Does anyone know more about what Cerf was talking about?
From playwright Sean O'Casey's Wikipedia page- "His play The Drums of Father Ned was supposed to go up at the 1958 Dublin Theatre Festival, but the Catholic Archbishop of Dublin, John Charles McQuaid, refused to give his blessing (it has been assumed because works of both James Joyce and O'Casey were in the Festival)."
SuperWinterborn At ~10:55, the former Lord Mayor of Dublin stated that there were no plays banned and that they would not ban plays anyway. According to him what happened, O'Casey refused to permit his play to be performed because the Festival wanted to make some changes to fit the format of the Festival, and he did not want to make the changes. The James Joyce play was not a James Joyce play, it was a script that someone had written, based on a James Joyce play. The Festival wanted to remove a couple of items from this script, but the producer refused to allow it, so they canceled the play. The Church had nothing to do with it. He chided Bennett for listening to the stories, but not checking the facts :) And apparently Bennett had made this mistake the last time he was a guest :) Interesting side point as we do not usually think of it about Ireland, but the Former Mayor of Dublin was Jewish. No problem with that of course, it is just that you do not think of Jews when you think of Ireland.
John Waller Thank you very much for your information. It's interesting that the former Mayor of Dublin was Jewish, but even more interesting is, that these pages are open for an exchange of views and information in a nice and polite way. Once again, thanks! :)
2:20 "Panel mawdahwaydah." 12:30 Half the audience had fallen asleep by that point. 19:45 Two of television's worst hairstyles, side by side. 21:15 It was just a game, Dorothy. Lighten up!
I believe Paar himself called himself a "humorist" as opposed to a comedian. One could call Fred Allen the same. I wouldn't even begin to guess who qualifies as a humorist today.
Bennett is the one to whom I usually ascribe a longstanding crusade against rock music but it sounds like Dorothy isn't a fan either. When told that "Hound Dog" sold 5 million copies, she says "That's no excuse," to the guests faces, mind you.
Read all the comments, still have no idea why the plays were unacceptable. The former Mayor took a long time to not really answer the question. I guess the specific reasons were unsuitable for the show.
Casey Holloway, youtube/google+ won't let me reply to you either. I don't know what's going on with that, it's come up before when I've wanted to reply to a comment from you. :( But as for your theory on "weenie", it sounds good to me. It certainly fits, as in getting a lead on something. I really don't believe at all that there was anything dirty implied by the panelists or inferred by the audience, though it does sound very funny today. Just my two cents.
Mr Brisco said some logical and sensible things about the theater 🎭 denials. Also he is a qualified politician. But I don't hold that against him in this case. To Mike and Jerry, you mean you wrote the "popular" versions of these songs? I only really know about 'Hound Dog' being around before Elvis. Also,I liked this episode especially.
Usually you can adjust the brightness of your display screen. Sniff around and you'll find a way. On my Mac the keyboard has F1 and F2 keys which make the screen brighter or darker; probably you have something similar.
*Hound Dog was common black slang for a cheap gigolo. Leiber & Stoller were drawn to black music and style* *It was especially written for, and originally performed by, Willie Mae Thornton, A BLACK WOMAN, four years BEFORE Elvis’s performance* 17:06 They stole the whole premise of the song from Black people and black culture. That’s why they literally couldn’t answer the question. It would’ve caused an actual UPROAR *The best-known version is the July 1956 recording by Elvis Presley, ranked number 19 on Rolling Stone's list of the 500 Greatest Songs of All Time in 2004, but was excluded from the revised list in 2021, IN FAVOR OF THORTON’S VERSION*
Just so everyone knows, Arlene is technically right stating cows have fur. It might not be dense but its fur. Fur and hair are the same. Some people refer fur as short and tense hair, ex:fur on his face, etc.
John Smith I don't know if you've seen some of the prior discussion on this, but John Daly, intelligent and erudite John Daly, was absolutely awful at basic biological taxonomy. We're not talking fine distinctions here, but things on level of considering lobsters to be fish, insectes to not be animals, bananas to not have seeds, that level. It's one of his very, very, very few weaknesses as a WML moderator!
The Amish Umpire It really depends on whether you're talking about plain English or biological categories. I don't think there's any clear (or meaningful) biological distinction between hair and fur.
@@paulasnow8420 certainly not Yogi Berra, who, when told that Dublin had elected a Jewish mayor, supposedly clasped his hands, looked heavenward, and said, "Only in America!"
I love when he asks if they plan to go onto more "serious" things with music! What a generational moment. (And the Beatles, Stones, and Dylan all yet to come!)
Was the plays being described being put on by an arm of the state of Ireland? If so, then Bennett's question was valid. And if so, I would say it is not under the purview of an apparatus of the state to put on plays of any kind.
None of these people in this show were modern, even then. Even the trans-atlantic accent some of them use was falling out of style by the late 50's (mostly John and Arlene)
![What's My Line? - Fred Astaire; Martin Gabel [panel] (Jun 8, 1958)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2Wo0tJyKgAA/mqdefault.jpg)
![What's My Line? - Frankie Laine; Vincent Price [panel] (Apr 12, 1959)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0oXrZjxk-hI/mqdefault.jpg)
![What's My Line? - Peter Lind Hayes & Mary Healy; James Roosevelt [panel] (Mar 16, 1958)](/img/1.gif)
Vincent Price was an exceptional gentleman and a lightning wit. We could all learn from watching this quality man off set.
Vincent Price was great. It seemed like he never took himself too seriously. He had a great sense of humor as evidenced by him playing the villain Egghead on the Batman television series from the 1960s. Some actors might have thought it beneath them to play this role but I am thinking he thought it would be just plain fun to do that role. As did a lot of other actors who lined up to play villains of that show. Thanks for the video.
When Leiber and Stoller were asked what they were thinking of when they wrote a song called "Hound Dog", the diplomatic answer was "nothing". In fact, the answer would have been too risque for 1958 network TV, even at 10:30 PM. The composers were 19 years old when they wrote the song at the behest of Johnny Otis for Big Mama Thornton, an earthy, raunchy, black singer/comedienne who weighed anywhere from 280 to 350 pounds and had a scarred face. They wanted to write a song that would convey her persona and raw sexuality without being too risque for air play. They settled on the phrase "hound dog", a term in black culture for a man looking for a woman to support him.
Ironically, probably because of who wrote the song, Thornton started to croon the song like Sinatra or Como. Leiber gingerly protested and there were tense moments until he demonstrated how he wanted her to belt it out. When she realized they had really written a song in her style, she caught on fast, made a few changes and the second of two takes was eventually released for air play and became a #1 R&B hit in 1952.
If the WML team didn't like the Elvis version, imagine how they would have felt about Thornton's version. Not exactly the type of song you would have expected from 19 year old Jewish boys. Even more unexpected than a Jewish mayor of Dublin.
ruclips.net/video/yoHDrzw-RPg/видео.html
Johnny Otis was supposed to produce the record. But the drummer wasn't getting the hang of the beat. So Otis reluctantly at first went behind the drum kit and let the kids produce the record. And so Leiber and Stoller became record producers as well as songwriters.
While Elvis is said to have done a cover version of Thornton's song (which he admired and owned a copy of), his version is nearly identical to a parody rewrite of the song by Feddie Bell and the Bellboys for their Las Vegas act. The new sanitized lyrics made no sense, to the disdain of Leiber, the original lyricist. But when Elvis recorded that version, Leiber and Stoller got a lot more in royalties than they ever received on Thornton's version.
Elvis reworked the song a few times in performances before it was recorded. But perhaps the two most important performances of the song occurred on television. The first was on Milton Berle's show, still a top draw at the time with an estimated viewership of 40 million. Berle told Elvis to come out without his guitar so the audience could see him. It was that performance that brought the attacks on Elvis for being sexually provocative and morally degenerate. And some of the WML reaction to rock 'n roll is related to that one show.
The second was on Steve Allen's show, where he had Elvis sing the song to a basset hound with Elvis wearing a tuxedo and the hound wearing a top hat. The next day, an angry Elvis and his backing musicians recorded the song at a much faster tempo with anger at the edge of Elvis's voice. From then on, that was the version he sang in concert and on two performances on Ed Sullivan's show.
To Ms. Simmons:
"While Elvis is said to have done a cover version of Thornton's song (which he admired and owned a copy of), his version is nearly identical to a parody rewrite of the song by Freddie Bell and the Bellboys for their Las Vegas act."
Actually according to a new book called "Cover Me: The Stories Behind the Greatest Cover Songs of All Time", Elvis Presley supposedly had no idea of Thornton's version's existence. He heard Freddie Bell and his band doing it live and decided to record it himself.
So what is the real nitty-gritty here?
+Jeffrey Slott
Well, my understanding is that Elvis actually owned a copy of the record. He liked all kinds of music: country/western, r&b, bluegrass, gospel, spirituals and pretty much everything else you could sing to. He used to sneak out of his (white) church on Sunday mornings and go down the street to hear the music in the black church (which was where he picked up some of his leg movements that he used when he sang). He recorded for Sun Records. That's the same label that released "Bear Cat" by Rufus Thomas, a parody of "Hound Dog" for which Sam Phillips was sued and had to give up a lot of the profit he made on "Bear Cat".
According to Peter Guralnick's "Last Train to Memphis", "Whenever [Bob] Neal [Elvis's manager before Col. Parker] went by [Elvis's] house, he found him with a stack of records - Ray Charles and Big Joe Turner and Big Mama Thornton and Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup - that he studied with all the avidity that other kids focused on their college exams."
Also in that book, Scotty Moore is quoted as saying that Elvis already knew "Hound Dog" before he heard Freddie Bell's version in Vegas.
Finally, according to Leiber and Stoller, they were prepared to hate Elvis because of how his version of :Hound Dog", now the most well-known version, had bastardized the version they wrote. But when they actually met him for the first time (to work on the movie, "Jailhouse Rock"), they found that Elvis was a kindred spirit, a white person who knew r&b as well as they did (a rare thing at that time).
Knowing what I know about the music scene in post-WWII Memphis, knowing about Sam Phillips, Dewey Phillips, and BB King, having visited the museums at Sun Records and Stax Records former locations, my best guess is that Elvis was very familiar with Big Mama Thornton's version of "Hound Dog". But the only way to know for sure is to catch his ghost on Union Avenue (probably near the Sun Records studio) and follow him up to the gates of Graceland and ask him.
ruclips.net/video/PTVbf44HMkY/видео.html
+Jeffrey Slott
Oh, and just to set the record straight, the most well-known version of "The Nitty Gritty" was recorded by Shirley Ellis!
ruclips.net/video/1VrcpXbPN4w/видео.html
@@loissimmons6558 Much ado about nothing...
@@jeffreyslott3883 there always has to be that one douchebag to undermine black success or recognition, ignoring all the facts. Miss Simmons shut you up!
Bennett opened up a can of worms this time when he made a completely unnecessary comment to the Lord Mayor.. I'm glad Mr. Briscoe took him to task. John, who treated the Lord Mayor of Dublin with great respect, must have been terribly embarrassed if not greatly annoyed at Bennett.
Please don't be so silly.
Bennett showed his support for those who wanted ill of law and order in Ireland.
Cerf is responsible for introducing smut into the United States (Joyce's Ulysses). I am glad his fellow Jew smacked him down.
@@shirtless6934 I see. Y'all be having yourself a great day y'all
Wow! So love watching Vincent Price on this particular episode! Thank you so much !
What I like about these shows is we got to see how Rock & Roll was being talked about during it's birth, all the pro's and con's. So I can tell that when The Beatles made it and came over here, how and what our parents felt about them. That's why I'm glad I'm a Baby Boomer, we got to see so much history being made as we grew up.
What stuck out for me was John Daly calling Rock and Roll a "fad".
Zac M. And we haven't recovered from it yet.
The Beatles is not Rock n Roll
@Jay I can't disagree with this comment.
@Jay Your anti-Semitic rants are most unwelcome.
Arlene’s response to Bennet when he asked Paar if he was on Daily and she says “No that’s John” went extremely under appreciated by the audience
I don't think I realized how tall Vincent Price was until he stood to shake hands behind the panel desk. 6'4". Everyone who dealt with him professionally said he was one of the nicest people they ever knew. When he died in 1992, our local ABC news anchor said that he'd had the opportunity to interview Price when he first started as a TV news reporter, was nervous as all get out, and Price put him at ease and proved to be such a nice man. Of course, he'd made a career of playing macabre roles.
I had the chance to meet him at around 1985 at a St Louis Community College. Just was in the right place at the right time. Very nice man! He was there to do some narrating, not sure exactly what for.
My daughter met him in 1985 at Truman University in Kirksville, MO. He was a big fan of the university and came there at least 2-3 times a year to take part in stuff going on. I never found out exactly what it was that interested him about the school. (I think the name of the school back then was Northeast MO.
Vincent Price died on October 25, 1993, not in 1992, so whoever said that should stand corrected.
The whole country watched Paar. Wish he had been with us a lot longer.
John Daly's look at 12:25... He really was not expecting such a delicate discussion.
He's probably thinking, Oh I bet the producers are just loving this.
As ever, he's very very conscious of time!! Eyeing that clock.
Thanks to Bennett. He's always asking unnecessary, spur of the moment questions. Guess it's probably too late to ask him to stop.
@@alansorensen5903 Mr. Briscoe's whole answer to Bennett could have been condensed in to two words.
Well..... imagine if he was discus Sinn Fein or BLM
13:53 Leiber and Stoller were as prolific a songwriting duo as the Beatles were in the 60s, and their work spanned three decades with an endless number of Top 40 hits -- many of which most of us my age would recognize in a second. Many of their compositions made otherwise obscure singers and groups famous, and some who were already well established turned their compositions into solid gold records. John Daly wished them continued success and that wish was certainly granted in their case. Some of their well-known hits I didn't even know that they were the composers! Stoller is still alive today.
Absolutely right! Perhaps only outdone by Mann and Weill, Leiber and Stoller were Brill building masters.
It's amusing that the most legendary people among the guests in this episode (Lieber & Stoller) were almost completely unknown, at least by sight at this time.
And obviously by name
To the public yes but probably not to the society.
Wow Vincent Price, Lieber & Stoler, and Jack Paar all in one show... quite a range of 50s pop culture on one stage! The panel were obviously rather skeptical of that rock & roll business. :-)
Ironically, Vincent would be the only one on the panel with a #1 R&B record (Thriller).
@tinwoods I never understood the fact that Dorothy hates rock and roll with a passion, but loves the Twist a few years later.
@@sferrell1000 Because the Twist was considered (in it's second coming particularly in 1961-2) as au courant and cosmopolitan while rock and roll in 1958 was considered greasy and dirty.
At least that's what the talk is at the insane asylum.
@@MrJoeybabe25 This is not so far from reality. On March 25, 1956, after Alan Freed's Big Beat Show Rock n' Roll Show in Hartford, CT ended with several arrests, Dr. Francis Graceland, chief psychiatrist at the Institute of Living, a psychiatric hospital in Hartford, said "Rock n' Roll is a communicable disease driving teenagers to do outlandish things." As an aside, my father, who was a psychologist, knew and worked with Dr. Braceland.
I love how the panelists (and John Daly)still think of Rock&Roll as a silly (and annoying) novelty ...Arlene was the only one still on panel the day they had Franz Zappa on as the Mystery Guest, would've been a treat to see Dorothy and Bennett's reaction to him
+james joyce
A fad... silly... something more serious.... what snobs.
+james joyce Haha that's exactly what I was thinking. The fact that they keep cracking jokes over how silly rock & roll is is hilarious.
I wonder what they would think of hip hop and r and b
@@erichanson426 Their talking about Rock and roll not Hip hop or Rap.
Zappa was a filthy creep.
BRAVO to the former Lord Mayor of Dublin for putting the self proclaimed know it all Bennett Cerf! It's about time.
Love Jack Paar. One of the wittiest hosts ever. Wish he was still with us.
I can't stand him...
Absolutely. Even the snippets of memory I have of him, were of a witty, suave and urbane host. People like him, are just not on t.v. anymore.
He always had interesting guests and he got out of their way letting them talk! Carson wasn't nearly as good.
17.28 - "I hope you have a chance to enjoy it and then go on and perhaps do some more serious things in music" - Right, John. Nearly 60 years later and still waiting for that rock & roll fad to end so Jerry and Mike can be taken more seriously. ;-)
For those of you who don't know, the duo also wrote the song Stand by Me for Ben E. King.
How about the fact the songs were all done by the greatest R&R'r of all time, a guy by the name of Elvis, and they never even mentioned that!
Yes, rock has continued, but it no longer holds the stage it once did. It goes through cycles. Presently it's overshadowed by hip/hop, various forms of dance music and other pop genres. Demographics are destiny.
Actually, they did write "Is That All There Is?" Of course, this was a big hit for Peggy Lee. So they did go (at least for a while) in a more cabaret-style direction.
Just amazing - at least Vincent Price knew they were rich at that time. Now they are legendary names in "that fad" rock n roll, still making money over 60 years later.
I think what is most interesting is how people didn't yet realize the potential artistry and artistic achievement of the form. The Beatles, Stones, Dylan, all still to come. . .
Fascinating banter by all involved around the notion of this new fad 'rock n roll' and the "cashing-in-while-it's-popular" nature of the two composers sitting quietly. To think that only NINE years later, Jimi Hendrix would be on stage and literally setting his guitar on fire with oil and a burning match.
It WAS a fad. No one makes R&R anymore in 2023
Long live rock and roll!
Its dead.
I have to smile: Mr. Briscoe gave it to Bennett pretty good. Really put Bennett in his place. Interesting that Mr. Briscoe was a Jewish politician. Very cool. Bennett, Arlene and Vincent stood up for him while Dorothy continued sitting but she and Mr. Briscoe seemed to have a lively little exchange.
Kate Luxor Bennet's questions as the guest is about to exit are often irritating ( although I like Bennett) but he sure got his comeuppance on this very windy reply from the good Lord Mayor
I will give the Lord Mayor full marks. His response was measured and exact with extreme careful wording and consideration.
Kinda like how we wish people in the public eye in today's age would act.
Whatever the facts surrounding the plays not being performed, and it is possible that a politician is not telling the entire truth (no specificity with the supposed technical issues was offered for either play), Bennett deserves credit for raising the question whether O'Casey and Joyce plays were censored, and he might not have been able to have determined the truth of the allegations that he presumably read or heard from reliable sources, other by asking Mr. Briscoe. Whatever personal characteristics Cerf had that can be irritating, Cerf's greatest accomplishment as a publisher was to create a test case that led to a landmark First Amendment case that led Cerf to be the first to publish Ulysses anywhere in the English speaking word, creating a precedent that reduced censorship (the book had been claimed to be illegal on obscenity grounds). Naturally, Cerf, having devoted time and resources to publishing Ulysses as a personal commitment to its literary greatness following a groundbreaking lawsuit, would have been troubled by the possibility that a Joyce based play, or O'Casey for that matter had been censored for its content, regardless of any possibly pretext for such an action, would have publicly stood up for the rights of publication and performance of works by literary masters and their publishers and producers.
@@preppysocks209 -except, such a question does not belong on a game show.
I fully support Mr. Cerf's right to challenge, to ask questions, to stand up for what he believes is right. but this game show is neither the time or the place. Mr. Cerf could have asked the same question backstage.
Also, since Mr.Briscoe was not representing Ireland or the people who rejected the plays, i think Mr. Cerf would have been out of line for asking the question anywhere.
@@MrYfrank14 I respect where you are coming from but I also respect what Bennett did here. And Mr. Briscoe seemed not only to have been prepared to address the issue, but welcomed the chance to tell the public his side of the story. It seems that he himself preferred to respond to these questions that had been in the media in public since he spent a great deal of time, uninterrupted, in responding. John or someone appeared to say "hear, hear" when he finished and the various panelists and audience applauded afterward. I do not know who is right, but again reviewing the clip, Mr. Briscoe's defense seems very vague, concerning unspecified "technical" reasons for the O'Casey play not being produced and the director's unwillingness to make certain changes to remove objectionable "content" with the Joyce-derived play are more than suggestive of censorship. If that is true, that adds to supporting Bennett here -- the last word went to Briscoe, and given time, we don't know what evidentiary basis Bennett had for asking his question. As to whether it belonged on a game show, John would sometimes ignore a panelist's question after the game concluded and dismiss the guest and he did not do so here. He and Bennett and Dorothy were all journalists and this was a TV program so I think the subject of censorship could have been fairly brought up on a show like this -- it isn't "The Gong Show." I don't think the matter is black and white. Bennett was not compelled to raise the subject, and I understand why someone could feel as you do. I think the best test of appropriateness would be to see whether Mr. Briscoe thought the question was disrespectful or out of line, and his reaction suggests that he welcomed the chance to address the subject and had prepared what he would say if the matter came up.
Bennett, knowing everyone in the world as he does, appears to have had previous discussions with the Lord Mayor. Mr. Briscoe hasn't been on WML before, but he tells Bennett, at 11:02, 'You are again, as I explained to you last year, accepting statements as facts and asking questions that don't really comply with the facts.' I suspect Bennett met him on vacation. Or talked to him about publishing, though Briscoe's 1958 autobiography was published (in the US) by Little Brown.
Of course, I suppose their having arguments might well lead to Mr. Briscoe seeking out a different publishing company...
Also, Stand-Up Watch: Arlene does, Dorothy doesn't, but Mr. Briscoe and Dorothy have quite a confab at the end.
juliansinger watch again.........he was previously on the show.
Well, since the Lord Mayor mentioned speaking to Mr Cerf previously, and since Mr. Daly said just after the Lord Mayor signed in that he'd been on the programme before, then perhaps your assertion that the Lord Mayor hadn't appeared on the programme before is incorrect. Just a thought...
@@PrenticeBoy1688Exactly correct😊
I'm going to write off for tickets as invited to at the end of the show.
I wish
Oh, if only we could time travel!
Marty McFly, bring the DeLorian!
Not happening 😮
One of TV's all time Greats! The unforgettable Jack Paar. As a pre-teen I used to stay up way past my bed time watching an old TV with Jack Paar. I used the same old RCA to watch What's My Line. No wonder I couldn't get up for school!
This is almost instantly popped in my head if I were a schooler at the time I would be sad cause I watched this and didn’t do my homework. Now the whole archive is open and we can watch anytime we want. Not fair. *sighs*
Jack Paar was quite the urbane talk show host. Remember watching him late night when I was in grade school. Men of his character are absent from all late night tv these days.
I thought the entire audience would break out in laughter when Dorothy asked if it was in the pork family.😂
Amazing how in 1958 rock and roll was still considered something derided by Ms. Francis and even wished by Mr. Daly that they would eventually go on to something "more serious."
Love Vincent Price her met him at 7 yrs old. And interacted here on my Island. Lovely guy he was.
Serf's very tasteful speech about books and their benefits has a whiff of being necessary in light of the technology of the day (chiefly television!) replacing reading activities! Way back in 1958. :) and....WOW didn't he have to take a rather firm response on the chin from the first guest after asking a rather sensitive question? He took it so well too....as of course he only could during a family show! But still, I do like Serf. A sound guy.
As background to Bennett's argument with the former Lord Mayor of Dublin, Bennett Cerf was first in the United States to publish James Joyce's Ulysses in its complete, unabridged form, having previously fought the government for the right to publish it after the government had declared it obscene in a different case. So while Bennett may have been out of line in calling out the Lord Mayor on what's supposed to be a lighthearted, family-friendly television show, this was an issue very dear to Bennett's heart. It's clear from the Lord Mayor's rather sanctimonious reply that the plays in question were indeed canceled because of their controversial content and not because of any refusal to make "technical changes" in the one case or the play being found "rather not to suit" (whatever that means) in the other.
AT LAST....WELL DONE Arlene for suggesting a name during a conference QUIETLY so that the audience don't hear and ruin it by applauding.
That's the way to do it for a better reveal.
John's face when Briscoe was taking up half the show talking after his spot 😂
I suspect his ire was largely directed at Mr. Cerf.
"I just can't imagine what my producers are thinking", is most likely going through Daily's mind at this time. 😃
I gotta say it was nice to hear a contestant talk for a change!
But the key here is that Mr. Daly completely allowed him to speak. He (and producers) may not have liked the idea of the subject at hand, but kudos to JCD for clamming up.
A real windbag.
I enjoyed Jack Paar's TV appearances, wit, and humor very much.
It's surprising that Lieber and Stoller were not known by name or by reputation after Elvis Presley broke through with their songs. In another episode Rogers and Hammerstein were the mystery guests, but they were in a more established musical tradition and closer to the theatre world of Arlene Francis. Elvis was never a guest on the show but other, older singers were: Frank Sinatra, Andy Williams, Bobby Darin, Johnny Ray, Sammy Davis Junior, Frankie Laine and jazz stars such as Lena Horne and Louis Armstrong. Maybe Elvis was not considered 'safe' for family viewing.
In only eight months at the helm of "The Tonight Show" Jack Paar had by this time become fabulously famous!
Hilarious how the panel, only one of whom was Jewish, asked about pork and Lent.😂 How ironic, too.😂
With everything that Bennett Cerf knew, I’m shocked that he didn’t know that that mayor was Jewish and therefore, it was logical that he would’ve been dealing in kosher meat.
I wasn’t surprised over the mayor’s second interest, because I knew that he was Jewish - and a very self-confident, polished mayor - who wasn’t ashamed to tell the world that he was a Jew.
17:30 - "perhaps go on and do more serious things in music".
LOL!
back when rock and roll was not taken seriously.
I never understood how Dorothy hated rock and roll, but loved twist music.
Scott Ferrell Twisting is not so rumbunctious. She's quite a quiet lady socially I get the feeling. :)
There have been some comments made about the confusion for John Daly and the panel members about fur versus hair versus hide. I find it more incredible that:
1) Bennett had to correct Arlene that pork doesn't come from cows
2) Bennett insisting that calfskin comes from unborn cows. (Most versions come from young cattle, but only one version comes from unborn cattle.)
3) Despite Robert Briscoe being known well enough in the U.S. and especially to these panel members that they would be aware that he was Jewish, that they would think of him being associated with pork before they arrived on beef as the meat he was associated with.
And then after stumbling around and arguing about these matters, the panel looks down their noses at rock and roll composers? I usually love this show and the regular members of the panel, but this episode was one of their low points.
At the time Rock and Roll was a bit more of a "Fad" and most of 'cultured' background had little understanding of it. Always remember the one key line in the movie "Back to the Future" where Marty was playing the guitar: "But your kids will love it......."
the panel members are city people.
everything is a dog , cat or pigeon.
meat comes from the store, not animals.
Agreed. I find this one of the strangest episodes yet (I've been watching in sequence since the 1950 start through March 1958 thus far).
They were famously clueless about the natural world.
@@Tedybear315Exactly 😊
Someone to put the extreamly arrogant Bennett in his place!
Good!!!
I may be wrong but I do believe this is during the feud between Dorothy and Jack paar. I never really liked him, a lot of people said he had a bad temper and would always make a big ass of himself even if it meant getting his way. He once said he was going to quit I think it was the tonight show (but I may be wrong) saying that the news papers and reporters are giving him and his family a hard time (which wasn't necessarily true)and he did it on live television (and started to fake cry) with it ending with him walking off stage. Dorothy said in column that he was doing this all for publicity but that was after they had a feud that had been going on for a while.
Was that why she was so unimpressed when she guessed his name? It sounded like "Ugh! are you Jack Paar?"
At this time people really liked Parr. He would later show his true colors.
Just before The Fly was made.
doginstine ....and over thirty years before he'd narrate a creepy passage on what would be the highest-selling record of all time.
@@davidsanderson5918 24 yrs
I would have thought Leiber & Stoller were celebrity guests, though they became household names later, in the 1960s
I was reading recently about the sinking of the Andrea Doria in 1956, when it collided with the Stockholm off the Massachusetts coast in the last years of the ocean liner era. To this day, survivors of the disaster, and fortunately all but 46 people survived, meet up. I don't know whether he attends, but Mike Stoller was one of the surviving passengers from the disaster. Enough time elapsed before the ship sank, that the passengers who survived the crash were brought to New York on other ships. Leiber met Stoller on the dock after his ordeal. Stoller had been in Europe for some time. He and Stoller had written "Hound Dog" several years earlier, and it had been recorded by Big Mama Thornton. Stoller had been in Europe for some time. Lieber told Stoller that while he was away, and unbeknownst to Stoller, a Mississippi singer named Elvis Presley had recorded the song and had had a huge hit. Stoller's reply, "Elvis who?"
Used to watch Jack Paar when he back on television in the 1970s with a late night show on ABC. I miss his type of show. Jack, Phil Donahue and David Susskind were the best. This stuff on how is just fun, games, making fun of people for sport, mindless chatter and the latenight hosts nowdays (Colbert, Kimmel and Fallon) don't like controversy. Jack loved to take on those types of guests and though he may have disagreed with their opinions, he still treated them with respect even when he disagreed with them.
When I saw the names "Stoller and Leiber" I recognized them as song composers. You have to keep in mind that this was 1958 and there was no Social Media so it was probably very easy to be a famous song writer but still go unnoticed. Today, when someone writes a big hit song, people want to know "who wrote that!"
As Mr. Daley said, "Hear, hear'" Mr. Briscoe!
that is what Mr. Cerf gets for asking political questions on a game show.
you ask a question like that backstage.
He was lied to and he did not deserve that.
Leiber and Stoller! I feel like they are too famous not to be listed in the description!
As young (mid-20's) composers of R&B and rock 'n roll music, they were not known to the members of the panel. Dorothy is heard to say that rock 'n roll inflicts pain on her. Even though "Hound Dog" was originally written for Big Mama Thornton in 1952 and Elvis crossed over with it to reach #1 on the pop, R&B and country charts in 1956, that didn't make Leiber and Stoller household names yet, especially with the WML team. They were only starting to learn the names of the major singers appreciated by the "Bobby Soxers" of that time. The composers were just names on 45 record labels that these people didn't go anywhere near.
I was surprised that Dorothy had heard of a song that had come out around the same time as "Don't", "Don't Let Go" (written by Jesse Stone, sung by Roy Hamilton and produced by Otis Blackwell). That song reached #2 on the R&B charts and #13 on the pop charts. Blackwell is the person who wrote two hit songs for Elvis: "Don't Be Cruel" and "All Shook Up".
ruclips.net/video/nnRV7G7-xd0/видео.html
The only other artists for whom Leiber and Stoller wrote pop hits before this episode aired was the crossover from R&B group, The Coasters. (Although the song mentioned by John Daly, "Black Denim Trousers and Motorcycle Boots", reached #6 on the pop charts, it was basically a novelty song.)
@@loissimmons6558 They're known TODAY. He's talking about the description of this video.
+Frank Sadat
You are 100% correct, as was +Julian Prewett.
My comments were intended to expand the topic, not to disagree with the original poster. If I had, I would have addressed them directly by citing his name the same as I have highlighted your name at the beginning of my reply.
@@loissimmons6558If one could download your memory. They would be richly endowed 😊
Now I want to go listen to the Smokey Joe's Cafe soundtrack.
Daly's reaction at around 15:40 is priceless
Always nice to see Bennet slapped down hard.
It was a thing of beauty! Can't stand him.
If anyone on that panel had given "Don't" a listen I imagine they wouldn't have found much to legitimately dislike about it.
By the way: Vincent Price had a noble brother: Sesame Street News - Dr. Nobel Price's Talky Stick :)
Cerf and the former Mayor of Dublin are discussing a Stage -play, and James Joyce is mentioned, but the only play I can find, which was prohibited at a stage in Dublin 1958, was Sam Thompson's "Over the Bridge". Does anyone know more about what Cerf was talking about?
From playwright Sean O'Casey's Wikipedia page-
"His play The Drums of Father Ned was supposed to go up at the 1958 Dublin Theatre Festival, but the Catholic Archbishop of Dublin, John Charles McQuaid, refused to give his blessing (it has been assumed because works of both James Joyce and O'Casey were in the Festival)."
Zac M. Thanks! :)
SuperWinterborn At ~10:55, the former Lord Mayor of Dublin stated that there were no plays banned and that they would not ban plays anyway. According to him what happened, O'Casey refused to permit his play to be performed because the Festival wanted to make some changes to fit the format of the Festival, and he did not want to make the changes. The James Joyce play was not a James Joyce play, it was a script that someone had written, based on a James Joyce play. The Festival wanted to remove a couple of items from this script, but the producer refused to allow it, so they canceled the play. The Church had nothing to do with it. He chided Bennett for listening to the stories, but not checking the facts :) And apparently Bennett had made this mistake the last time he was a guest :)
Interesting side point as we do not usually think of it about Ireland, but the Former Mayor of Dublin was Jewish. No problem with that of course, it is just that you do not think of Jews when you think of Ireland.
John Waller Thank you very much for your information. It's interesting that the former Mayor of Dublin was Jewish, but even more interesting is, that these pages are open for an exchange of views and information in a nice and polite way. Once again, thanks! :)
Problems with FAKE NEWS even in the ‘50s!
Vincent heading off to make The Fly! Classic.
I’ve lost track now just how many times John has scolded Bennett ...... such a pain in the rear he was
It was their shtick. Everyone listened for the barbs.
Theirs some speech. or statement that wasn't meant to be spoken on tv😮
Send a email complaint 😊
the golden age of TV. it didn't have to be color. premier entertainment!
It's just a blindfolded guess... ..but the Incredibly Exquisitely Talented Vincent Price was "Probably" thinking of Mel Blanc..
2:20 "Panel mawdahwaydah." 12:30 Half the audience had fallen asleep by that point. 19:45 Two of television's worst hairstyles, side by side. 21:15 It was just a game, Dorothy. Lighten up!
I believe Paar himself called himself a "humorist" as opposed to a comedian. One could call Fred Allen the same. I wouldn't even begin to guess who qualifies as a humorist today.
Bennett is the one to whom I usually ascribe a longstanding crusade against rock music but it sounds like Dorothy isn't a fan either. When told that "Hound Dog" sold 5 million copies, she says "That's no excuse," to the guests faces, mind you.
Very impolite Dorothy 😮
What if they had heard rap😂
Vincent price I love your voice
Leiber and Stoller and mayor Briscoe- giant men!!!
16:59 Snark from Dorothy.
“Oh no. How can the orange juice be FRESH if it’s FROZEN?” - Gordon Ramsay
It's fresh oranges being flash frozen.😊
Read all the comments, still have no idea why the plays were unacceptable. The former Mayor took a long time to not really answer the question. I guess the specific reasons were unsuitable for the show.
Wish the network would bring this show back-retro style of course!
Not happening 😊
Did Dorothy and Jack Paar already hate each other by this point?
Mr Briscoe certainly had alarming physical mannerisms.
Casey Holloway, youtube/google+ won't let me reply to you either. I don't know what's going on with that, it's come up before when I've wanted to reply to a comment from you. :(
But as for your theory on "weenie", it sounds good to me. It certainly fits, as in getting a lead on something. I really don't believe at all that there was anything dirty implied by the panelists or inferred by the audience, though it does sound very funny today. Just my two cents.
Weenie another way of the word idea!😊
Wow, the Lord Mayor of Dublin really put Bennett Cerf in his place. The Lord mayor made a point of stating that he is a Jew; as is Bennett Cerf .
Bennett not Jewish
Yes, he was.
“It’s not pork for goodness sake.”😂
Give it up for Lent. 😂
Mayor Briscoe who wasn’t afraid to say that he was a Jew.
This was just 13 years after WW2 😮
Mr Brisco said some logical and sensible things about the theater 🎭 denials.
Also he is a qualified politician. But I don't hold that against him in this case.
To Mike and Jerry, you mean you wrote the "popular" versions of these songs?
I only really know about 'Hound Dog' being around before Elvis.
Also,I liked this episode especially.
And perhaps do more serious things in music. Hilarious.
No Carson, Letterman, and Conan without Jack Paar.
I can state, without a doubt, that Arlene most certainly did not have a 'Weenie'.
Arlene had a Vagina...She could have all the Weenie's she wanted...
😂it's actually the word that meant 💡 IDEA
Cxan someone please explain to me why the picture is sometimes way too dark?! I cannot st and that whenever it happens. How can I correct this?
Usually you can adjust the brightness of your display screen. Sniff around and you'll find a way. On my Mac the keyboard has F1 and F2 keys which make the screen brighter or darker; probably you have something similar.
*Hound Dog was common black slang for a cheap gigolo. Leiber & Stoller were drawn to black music and style*
*It was especially written for, and originally performed by, Willie Mae Thornton, A BLACK WOMAN, four years BEFORE Elvis’s performance*
17:06 They stole the whole premise of the song from Black people and black culture. That’s why they literally couldn’t answer the question. It would’ve caused an actual UPROAR
*The best-known version is the July 1956 recording by Elvis Presley, ranked number 19 on Rolling Stone's list of the 500 Greatest Songs of All Time in 2004, but was excluded from the revised list in 2021, IN FAVOR OF THORTON’S VERSION*
Just so everyone knows, Arlene is technically right stating cows have fur. It might not be dense but its fur. Fur and hair are the same. Some people refer fur as short and tense hair, ex:fur on his face, etc.
John Smith You're 100% correct. This is one of the basic categorical characteristics of mammals: fur bearing.
I just thought i'd mentioned it after watching John clearly making it seem silly that cows have fur.
John Smith I don't know if you've seen some of the prior discussion on this, but John Daly, intelligent and erudite John Daly, was absolutely awful at basic biological taxonomy. We're not talking fine distinctions here, but things on level of considering lobsters to be fish, insectes to not be animals, bananas to not have seeds, that level. It's one of his very, very, very few weaknesses as a WML moderator!
Sorry to disappoint you, but it is called hair, and when it is tanned, it is called hair on hide.
The Amish Umpire It really depends on whether you're talking about plain English or biological categories. I don't think there's any clear (or meaningful) biological distinction between hair and fur.
They sure didn't like rock n roll music ..wow..and called it a fad !!! Lol...if only they had known
It WAS. No one is making Rock anymore in 2023
Wow - quite condescending comments from john and the panel with the rock and roll producers. "We hope you go on and do more serious things." Lol.
To one of the greatest song writers ever
@@rickrick5041Not well known at this time😊
@@robertjean5782 At that time their records had already sold millions. The panel and moderator just thought rock n roll was low class
@rickrick5041 It was unacceptable to the panelist that were from 1897 and early 1920s
Just tell Bennett to stuff It
Who'da thought the Irish would have a Jewish Politian - good for them.
ooops, should have used spell-check. politician
@@paulasnow8420 certainly not Yogi Berra, who, when told that Dublin had elected a Jewish mayor, supposedly clasped his hands, looked heavenward, and said, "Only in America!"
@@preppysocks209 Oh yes, Yogi Berra and Casey Stengel "All right everyone, line up alphabetically according to your height." love fun quotes.
Is it in the pork family 😆
Stupid question Bennett.🤪
It wasn't a stupid question, it shouldn't have been asked on live tv😢
I love when he asks if they plan to go onto more "serious" things with music! What a generational moment.
(And the Beatles, Stones, and Dylan all yet to come!)
Cerf was born in 1897. So rock and roll was a horrific thing to hear 😊
What's with all the "Private Video"s?
Was the plays being described being put on by an arm of the state of Ireland?
If so, then Bennett's question was valid. And if so, I would say it is not under the purview of an apparatus of the state to put on plays of any kind.
The panelists were so square. Little did they know what was coming!
To the older folks this music was horrible and I couldn't play it at home. My father grabbed a few 45s I had and smashed them up into little pieces 😢
Dorothy was one of this people saying "Rock and Roll is music from the Devil"? I thaught she was a modern woman!
None of these people in this show were modern, even then. Even the trans-atlantic accent some of them use was falling out of style by the late 50's (mostly John and Arlene)
Anyone over 30 years old were totally outraged with Rock roll😊
@@jimchabai3163Really Trans Atlantic 😂
An Irish Jew. OK, that's Kosher with me.
Paar does not act as thin skinned as he becomes later. He really attacks Dorthy over a comments she made
Did Bennett think Jack Parr was Alec Guinness?
Or William Holden
Did briscoe convert? Orthodox family. Seems to have been like Disraeli. Even looks like him. Intereting activities during WW2.
At times... Dorothy took the fun out of the game by taking it way too seriously.
THANK YOU....for a woman who was supposed to be so intellectual... she could come off as a complete idiot sometimes!!!
Leiber & Stoller (R&B/R&R composers.)
*_Manufactures Kosher Meat Products in Ireland_*
*_Rock 'n Roll Composers_*
Can’t believe they don’t know leiber and stoller😊
They were just starting to writing songs, unknown at this particular time 😊
I wish Bennett had just once kept his mouth shut. I can hardly stand to watch the episodes because of his big yap going on and on.
Send a email complaint 😊