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Why You Can't Trust Youtube 'Reviews' - It's not just about Victory Amps
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2023
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G U T T L E S S !!
Is the extra T for Twat here, Kevin?
Don't see what Cordy did wrong here...what he said was true and a lot of what we see is marketing and has hidden agendas.....not gutless at all!
@@johnnathancordy bravo!!
@@johnnathancordy “i think”
Hey John, enjoyed your thoughts on this. As you know I've been in the guitar media business since the mid/late 1990s and kinda seen it all since then. Mick here. What we had then, and what we still have now, are gear companies who want to sell as much gear as possible, and a large proportion of enthusiast players who are almost entirely driven by motivated cognition and vindication of musical tastes and heroes. That is to say: if you want to like something, you usually will. Between the two is a vast chasm of marketing opportunity that every consumer brand ever has understood how to manipulate, to a lesser or greater extent, with all kinds of emotional and hard-benefit triggers. But usually emotional. "You too can be like this." "You can achieve this." "If you buy this, you will be like this" etc. And as consumers we willingly lap it up. We are entirely complicit.
What Dan and I are excited about currently is a bit a realisation among audiences, and here's where it gets a bit complex in my opinion. First, the notion that there is better and worse gear. Good and bad. It's not true in any universal sense and it never has been. I fought for years against scores in guitar magazines because some of us just thought it was nonsense. We'd make all these overtures about build quality and playability when actually those things simply don't matter AT ALL for creativity and music. They're there as signposts and differentiators in a market that's totally overwhelmed with pseudo-individualisation. Sure, I've been involved in shootouts and gear videos trying to choose the 'best' this and that, and hopefully on video anyway, always pointed out that it's just an opinion and you as the viewer might totally disagree. Could Petrucci play one of Jon Spencer's down-tuned monsters in Dream Theater? Nah. And vice versa - context is everything.
Moving on from that and, second: Dan and I are increasingly pushing that agenda - there is no best, only what you like. And that really speaks to this assumption that ANY reviewer or demoer is or can ever be, objective. Objectivity in something as subjective as playing, feeling and hearing the guitar is pure nonsense. How else do we explain such a colossally wide range of tastes and opinions in music?
I guess if any of us (collectively) are guilty of anything in gear videos, it's in not stating that at the beginning of the video - "If you're expecting objectivity, please turn off now, because it is not humanly possible in anything outside of pure numbers." And to be fair, I don't think anyone really wants objectivity anyway - they want to be told what other people like, whereupon we circle back to the top of the comment. People will believe, ultimately, what they want to believe. It's all motivated cognition in the end, until you actually know for yourself. The learning lies in giving up on believing what ANYBODY says, and putting the time and investment into actually knowing for yourself. That takes decades and a tremendous amount of cash. The ire we get from people annoyed with gear demos is a projection of anger of not having the time or wherewithall to do the long term learning. Marketeers love these people, obviously. They just want to be told what to buy. Again, back to the top of the comment.
As I hinted, I've started to make it a personal mission to tell people that there is no best, only what you like. Not what I like, not what they like - only what you like. Quite a few people are starting to say it more… and that really annoys a lot of other people because they don't want the hassle and the responsibility of the decision. They want to hand that responsibility to me or you or Mr Anderton. The faster you understand that, the faster you'll stop feeling put upon by people trying to sell you things, and the faster you'll be back to making music. I appreciate this is a little zoomed out from the Victory/Anderton thing specifically - that's a discussion for elsewhere and I agree with you that KDH absolutely has a valid place among 'us'.
Sorry for the long comment - it's an area I find super interesting. If anyone finds any aspect of this contradictory or in some way hypocritical, all I can say is that it's a long process of learning, realisation and change. I worked on guitar magazines supported by advertising. I've done product demos for people on the internet. I'm pleased to say TPS has never and will never accept payment for any video or product placement. We do get sent a tremendous amount of stuff for free, and we still buy a great deal of stuff too. We have everything, basically, and I can say unequivocally that Dan and I use the stuff we want to use and like the most, whether it cost zero or many thousands. We like some stuff a lot. We like other stuff a lot less. The reasons are almost never objective, whatever life lies we construct as part of a purchasing narrative/explanation. Please, everyone, understand there is no best, only what you like the most. Watch the ALL demos, watch ALL the 'reviews', but NEVER believe what any single entity tells you. Ever. In anything. Peace!
This is such an enlightening and
fascinating comment and really helped
solidify what "upset me" about this
particular topic as a regular Joe guitar player. TI;DR version your
channel (and that mission statement!) - and John's of course - I
believe are incredibly valuable so keep
doing what you're doing, please :)
This tide change amongst a guitar-playing and buying public is definitely happening,
and youtube demos/deepdives alongside
just having "good players I like chatting and enjoying the noise they make" are a huge
reason why people might be able to
move away from "this is the best thing
because I've been told it must be" vs
what our ears (or that ever elusive "feel") tell us we enjoy. I can hear something (miced up) and decide if that's a sound I'd like to aim for use making my own music: as Jim Lill put it "send me your favourite unrecorded guitar tone"...
I certainly look back with frustration at buying guitar mags as a young player and NOT understanding a clear link - never stated or even implied, in my recollection - between the products reviewed favourably and exactly how they got into those pages. Instead whatever kit got the best reviews was catapulted to the top of my opinions as "this is objectively the best thing, because a position in authority told me so". With no ability to hear stuff, alongside whatever choices you're lucky to have available at you local guitar shop, it's so easy to fall into preconceived bias of what is the right or wrong gear; also IMO far easier to fall for the more dubious/nebulous "these strings/saddles/cleaning products IMPROVE YOUR TONE". What's been so upsetting about the reaction to KDH is seeing so many guitar players revert back to "I don't care about not disclosing this information, and even if I did I like/trust the videos/person so I want to buy from him anyway". A ruling of an ASA breach should be cut and dried mistake made and move on, but guitarists burying their head in the sand about it on the strength of personality and "oh it doesn't bother me" seems to ignore all of the above (and discount those who might not be as discerning/"enlightened" and would have their opinions shaped by what they're told is best). Bear Andertons no ill will and also love their stuff (evidently a great business and very entertaining too), but yes yes yes to 'question everything'! Rock on chaps and thanks.
Mick this is probably the most fascinating and thought provoking comment. I value your feedback here as you've seen different facets of the guitar industry and marketing world. Thank you for sharing your experience and as you said, gear is what you want it to be. I am guilty of watching a lot of videos on a product(pedal guitar amp etc) before making a purchase as I feel that players with greater skill and breadth of experience can really show you the ranges you could potentially get out of something as well. I believe that the key for you personally is how can you take that inspiration with you and create as well. I love your guys show and support what you and Dan do.
Beautifully said, Mick. I like and watch your show because you guys have a similar ear and search for the same kind of tones I try to achieve myself. However, you could not be more correct that viewers, and people today in general, need to stop depending hopelessly on RUclips reviews and reviewers to form their opinions for them.
everyone's selling something - if people cant discern guitar products/who is providing info how will they go with the news and making life decisions. is monetization of you tube videos something to be declared like paid product reviews etc?. if people part with their money on guitar gear these days its all pretty good product. Like you say people will believe what they want - nothings going to change their mind except hindsight. Its a non issue for me either way.
@ThatPedalShow "Watch the ALL demos, watch ALL the 'reviews', but NEVER believe what any single entity tells you. Ever." Sure... NOW you tell me! :-D j/k
Your channel has, however, been immensely helpful in my tone journey thus far. Anderton's has likewise been helpful. For example, my TK Imperial MkII acquisition was fueled in part by both channels showcasing of that amp. I'm happy to say I'm in love with that amp and everything said and shown about that amp has borne out fully in my experience.
I’m a UK regulated financial Adviser and any relationship with a prospective client begins with full disclosure. When done properly that forms the basis of a relationship based on trust. This discussion kind of reminds me of that. Tell the viewers and they will make up their own minds. Great post!
I have no problem with people doing paid gear demos, there are two just key things for me. One, the fact that it should be a demo rather than a review. Secondly people need total transparency: declare whether you were paid for the video, given the product for free or at a discount. Loopop is the gold standard for this for me. He declares every time the conditions under which he's doing the video.
I rely a lot on gear demos to be able to hear equipment that I can't easily try out myself. It's at least an hour's drive to get to a decent guitar shop and closer to 3 hours to somewhere I can try synths. So other than ordering, trying and returning gear, these videos are the best opportunity for me to hear this stuff being used in a relatively uncontrolled environment, that's important to me. I have no issue with you doing work for Strymon (in favour I'd be well up for it) and no issue with anyone being paid in cash or gear so long as it's completely clear to the viewer.
Again, I don't think anything happened that should motivate the community to 'Bud Light' Andertons... Things are hard enough on everyone, I don't see why we should make it harder for everyone.
@bulletsforteeth5029 couldn't agree more. I think the whole thing got blown out of proportion, typical internet drama. But then I always assumed Lee had some involvement in Victory anyway so I don't feel "misled" which I guess some people may do. Either way I'm tired of the topic.
Yes, a lot of people use the term 'review' when in fact it's an overview or demo.
Even if the situation appears relatively unimportant, the importance of truth is never diminished…
Yep, it's principle. Honest person, vs dishonest person trying to screw; deceive his audience. The people who dismiss this likely suffer from some sort of cognitive dissonance; they were fooled, but rather than facing this reality, they prefer just to ignore it and pretend like everything is fine; they weren't deceived, not a big deal, doesn't matter, etc.
@@literalghost929what is even more odd is Lee pretty much open face acknowledged it and those people will still say “big deal”. The facts staring them in the face and I guess it just doesn’t matter to them 😂
@@JosePineda-jn8jk Yeah, apology when caught is meaningless, yet, many are so many easily deceived that they end up praising the guy and thinking even more highly of him after the fact...! It's amazing really.
It's like for them, the crime/dishonesty doesn't matter one bit, what matter is that ONCE THEY GOT CAUGHT, they made a nice apology video.............. So easily confused / distracted ....
@@JosePineda-jn8jk Also as I wrote on the KDH video to a few replies praising Lee:
-100 points for deceiving his audience for 10 years.
+5 points for his nice apology video.
Total points: -95.
Somehow, for many people, it's the exact opposite. -5 pts for 10 years of lies and deception, +100 for apology (after he was caught).
People are truly amazing.
Well said. The backlash makes one worry about society a bit. How do these people operate in their personal lives if their morality is so easily bought by a smiling face in a marketing video?
Everyone should be grateful KDH is doing what he's doing. He's not doing it to make friends in the industry; He's burned plenty of bridges. He's doing it for US, the consumers. He's the hero we need.
Isn't KDH Rob's brother, and actually works or worked for him?
No. But that's funny.
He’s just another you tube guitarist and can’t be trusted anymore than any other channel can
What keeps me coming back to your channel is your toned down discussion style about the stuff vs sounding like an excited infomercial. I appreciate your honesty and that it seems like you primarily make content about stuff that you like and enjoy. When I stepped up to play guitar for my church my friend let me borrow his HX Stomp and if it weren't for your channel I'd have been lost. Your walkthroughs on making presets are solid gold. Thank you.
Its reverb n delay
@Abdul-Amburadul ...there's more to it than that obviously. Building an amp preset, chaining effects, setting snapshots, changing parameters for the specific delays and reverbs between presets. All of that is overwhelming to someone that has never used modelers before. He was a big help to me getting it right.
kdh has informed me of A LOT about the guitar industry and i appreciate it.. i wish there were more channels like it.... and i appreciate you backing him here
Great channel, John. It's been one of the more instructive channels I follow. I don't get the backlash toward KDH or Andertons. Ideally, Anderson would have been more transparent and compliant with the law, but on the other hand, they've always told you who they are: They sell gear, the channel has always been and will always be a biased advert (and I don't think that's an inherently negative thing). Anderton's channel is 100% a commercial for gear they have a stake in selling and they show certain products for a reason. Like you said, It's great that you can have a listen and make up your mind, but it's always in the context of a sales pitch. The KDHs of the world have a role in helping to make us more media savvy and that's quite valuable.
Because kdh is a crybaby,that’s why the backlash
Well said. Andertons also owns East Coast guitars and part of Chapman guitars, but those brands are featured on their channel very, very rarely compared to all the others they demo from large and small manufacturers, whether as the main point of the episode or as the platform for the pedals and amps being discussed. To me, that provides good evidence of Andertons’ overall fairness. Also, Lee and Pete’s enthusiasms tend to gibe with what my ears tell me. I also like their inclusion of blinded shootouts! So, they have built credibility with me, over time.
I love the on line demos. I cant afford gear, but i love the content and the information. When i was falling in love with guitars, back in the 80s, all i had was magazines and 2 small stores that had mostly copy guitars. So the fact that i can immerse my mind in a sea of guitar related STUFF thrills me weather i can afford to buy any of it or not! I have enough guitars and gear to keep me happy, but i love keeping up on whats new.
Not only the fact that you had this thought, but, the fact that you were open and transparent about it speaks volumes about your character. You are a treasure and an asset to the musical community. Thanks blood.
Plus he has a good sense of humor!
@@jakollee The truth brother
Agreed!
"blood"?
John you have an outstanding channel 👍You have always come across as an honest guy with integrity and a phenomenal top notch player. I had never heard of the Suhr Bella Reverb amp until your review/demo, and now I`m getting one.
It is nice to see your open, honest thought process. I appreciate it. I would hope (perhaps naively) that many YT gear content providers are being transparent as long as they put a disclaimer up front about the gear they’re reviewing.
And regarding Strymon content, yes please. Thanks.
I love and appreciate your thoughtfulness when it comes to demonstrating products. I do think that if you want to get products from reputable company like Strymon or any other company you are interested in and demonstrate them, it would be great for you and the viewers. I really love listening to you play, discuss your thought process or just dial in tones on anything to be quite honest. Its great to experience new products and you might discover something awesome. Try not to let other people's biased videos affect you too much, you are always transparent and aware of how you come across to people and I think the viewers here really appreciate it :D Thanks man
You and Phillip McKnight are probably the only people who I watch who I can 100% trust that their opinions aren't clouded by profiting off increased sales.
Came here to say this.
Phillip McKnight is one of the worst channels on here. Smh.
McKnight routinely scalps guitar off reverb and private sellers and then after hyping it up on his channel sells them for inflated prices. To say McKnight doesn't profit off his work is like saying water isn't wet.
@@jamest.135 Selling things higher then you bought them is just business.
What i'm referring to is sponsored deals where you get a cut of sales for the specific product you're shilling or the andertons/revv situation.
@@carloslonmoer6285RUclipsr sycophants say the silliest things.
"Selling things higher then you bought them is just business."
-you
Not on used gear. Your car is worth less the day you buy it. An amp is worth less the more it's used, unless it's a collector amp.
No one likes middlemen, do nothing FLIPPERS. NO ONE. They artificially inflate prices, and have the NERVE to buy a piece of used gear, then sell it for more than the seller. Adults with principles don't do that, but fat, lazy scammers live on it.
"It's only worth $100 to me, but I'll convince others the same amp is worth $200, and my heavy EQ'd video will help, that I ALSO made money on"
-a POS middle man, do nothing FLIPPER
Btw, this is one of maybe 10 guitar channels I've subscribed, mostly for the music, the reviews and Pod Go videos/tutorials, etc.. And for the reviews, you do get a sense of who is bought for and who is an honest reviewer, and yeah, your honesty does shine through. So thumbs up for that. That is not the impression I got from a lot of channels, and why I ditched them, and are still subbed here. :D Great work, keep it up!
Every Salesman has his angle.
@@bulletsforteeth5029 Sure, and you might say that the line is blurry. But there's clear lines not to cross, and some of these lines have even legislated.
In the case of Lee Anderton, he clearly knew that what he was doing was unethical, and again, it was also illegal. So it goes much further than an 'angle'... It's really in scam / charlatan / con / crime territory
The weird thing is that nearly all of the kit sounds the same by the time it's been recorded, mastered uploaded to RUclips and compressed. But it works on all of us. I like what I see, new shiny etc...
You're on point with this vid. Transparency is important and people talking shit about KDH and blindly supporting big brands need to take a look at themselves.
One of the things I like best about you and your channel is your openness, candor, honesty and clarity. You’re 100% right about conflicts of interest. That said, gear demos can be instructive, even though one thing kind of nags at me, is that you don’t really know what the exact settings of the gear are and what other gear is being used.
It's probably best to view all RUclips channel product reviews as generally advertising even if its not a paid/sponsored video. Transparency is appreciated however. I watch many uploads and can generally make up my own mind whether to purchase or not. We can usually send the product back if not satisfied with it, which I have also had to do. I am not complaining just a fact of life now with so many new products released. Cheers
Content creators are probably the most susceptible to hype because marketing teams know the value of the medium, even if the creator themselves is not. So at times, and at different levels in the youtube musicsphere, they're drowning in gear and most of it is uninspiring and cumbersome or imperceptibly different from the gear they've got currently or have been using for decades.
But it's not all nefarious or anything. It's just good to keep in mind.
"Transparency is appreciated however."
In many countries it's actually the law. It was the case for Lee Anderton. And btw, it goes further than 'appreciated', it is to be expected. Because not doing so is dishonest. It's lying by omission. It's sad that so many people have come to find this reprehensible behavior as acceptable. It shouldn't be.
Exactly. I think this video (and this controvery in general) assumes influencers are far more powerful than they really are. I've never heard anyone say they bought brand X because Pete Thorn / Andy / Eytsch, etc. said it's better than brand Y. Maybe a complete beginner might ask an uncle to accompany them to the store to buy their first guitar, but experienced players? I think it's more that people already have GAS for a piece of gear, and seeing good demos can close the sale.
As someone who works in marketing/branding, I can also understand why Victory is better off not being associated with Anderton's. If you look at this from Martin Kidd's perspective, would you want people to think you're Anderton's store brand?
@@sundrenched6248 " I've never heard anyone say they bought brand X because Pete Thorn / Andy / Eytsch, etc. said it's better than brand Y."
Because nobody will admit to that fact. But in actuality, that's the power of marketing. Why do you think companies spent millions on it? Because it doesn't work? Because it doesn't influence people into buying products? Genuine question. Why would an amp company send out free amps and pay thousands of dollars, because nobody will buy them because of the videos?
@@literalghost929 Obviously using influencers works, for certain goals. I'm in Marketing so I'm aware it's a popular medium. I'm just very skeptical that what comes out of an influencer's mouth will impact brand choice much. If they make the product sound great, then yes. Also to create awareness for unknown brands, But to sway brand choice through an influencer's expressed opinion (not sound produced), I don't believe so, at least not for guitar gear.
The fact that two staffers of Anderton’s have signature models and they are pretty much the only big channel featuring Victory regularly… it just seems common sense that they have a stake.
wouldn't someone have to watch all the channels to know that Anderton's is the only one doing that? How often is it brought up that two staffers have signature models? Neither of these things seems common knowledge to me. Hard to say uncommon knowledge is common sense.
I think you would have be asleep to not connect those dots.
@@mhb450 I think you're vastly overestimating how familiar the casual consumer is with the RUclips gear review universe
@@jc5512 over estimating? Maybe. But it’s obvious as the sun to me and if someone can’t figure it out, we won’t be able to have much conversation.
I think in the hurry to tell everyone how amazing you are, you’ve ignored the rights of a consumer, the legal obligation of a retailer and KDH who addresses tedious bores like you that claim they always knew, in his video. Small boutique brands often make ties with a retailer in the development of a brand - Andertons has had numerous relationships with brands that were every bit as focussed on selling through them, even brands that are huge in the states that pretty much only appear in the UK via Andertons - none of them Lee had any tangible stake in. The signature models having three members of staff and Guthrie, who may not be paid by Andertons, but is a close ally, is definitely a bit sus, but again it is not reason enough - not even close. KDH criticised the practise of doing what Lee was doing and you may argue that the facets of deceit were in themselves thinly veiled, there is no one with any sense that can’t acknowledge that they were deceitful, and as a retailer that pushes this hideously vomitus ‘hey we’re the crazy guys down at andertons, join our gang’ kind of rhetoric is even more worthy of being called out. It sounds like youre exactly the sort of munchkin that laps up their shite and is willing to play the white knight, justifying it to yourself as being in possession of ‘common sense’. Pah. I bet you have a chapman guitars tattoo.
Good people like you should be paid for their work. Not every guitar seller in a store does it for free. Neither does the shoe salesman ✌🏼
Spot on John. I don't understand the backlash either. Probably related to what you mentioned early on - Lee is a likeable guy and many of the things that fight for our attention end up becoming a popularity contest. Even though we'd all like to think that humans mature as they grow up, certain elements that we're introduced to early, such as competition and popularity, are there in one form or another for the duration...
I watch all your gear videos cuz I like hearing you rip on that Strat. I feel like gear doesn’t make as big a difference as we think. The listener could care less. They just want to be inspired. Your playing is inspiring on every piece of gear you have demoed. And the tones are 80-90% similar in my opinion
We need more of this approach.
Dude - you're my favorite gear reviewer. You are so honest/on the up-and-up. The only problem is that your playing sounds so good sometimes that it can give an overly favorable impression of the gear. Not sure there's much you could do about that and still keep it entertaining.
The value that I get from gear videos has been, for the most part, is an introduction to a lot of products that I wasn’t previously aware of.
I feel like many of the YT Channels I watch be it Guitar Gear, Headphones/Audio Gear or Electronics are like watching QVC. After watching long enough you know who's being honest on a product and who is trying to get some kickback on sales.
Not intended to bash anyone here just some thoughts after some of the dust has settled...
Also - is there a difference between a Product Demo and a Review? Or are those lines blurry?
I think it is a valid discussion but, at this point in time I think people should have learned online literacy. It has been a long time since the home dial up days but, I have known to be skeptical of info on the internet for some time. I think that thinking and frame of mind just needs to come back because people should have always been watching reviews or demos with a grain of salt. 🤷🏽♂️
I think the lines between demo and review have for sure been blurred because most channels use the same format for both interchangeably.
The difference to me is basically just the length. A demo will be just a short bit of trying out the product, giving a few short impressions, ex; feels great, I like the tone, love this and that, dislike that, etc., and a review will be a more in depth review/demo, going over a couple of features, etc. All in all, to me they're the same.
In both case, fact that it's paid for; paid advertisement, should be disclosed. The only acceptable non-disclosed paid 'demo' would be one where there are only product sounds; no commentary at all by the paid advertiser. Even smiling or thumbs up wouldn't be acceptable, as this would be considered endorsement; require disclosure that it's paid advertisement, and not genuine unbiased thoughts.
You can demo a product without offering like/dislike commentary or comparing it to comparable gear. A review implies a rendered opinion usually ending with a recommendation to buy/avoid.
I've always found you to be quite impartial / honest in your reviews - product demonstrations - tone demos and myself and the other 89k subscribers do as well
For me demos are the sounds of the product, while reviews explain it, though that can be something I totally made up
As someone that does not have access to a local music store to pop in and check out gear for myself, RUclips reviews have been very important. Most of my gear was selected using video reviews, and thankfully most of it worked out well although I have probably bought more than I should have 🥴.
It looks to me like you have a firm grasp on the concept of 'conflict of interest'. It would be great if more people did but unfortunately the examples set by even the highest levels of society don't reinforce this.
Keep being you, you are doing great.
Product demos have always been there. Watching masterful Alex Hutchins years ago was always a joy. We watch knowing Alex could make anything sound good (even an audio interface from China!). I think KDH has exposed something different. Where our trust with the Anderson’s and actually part owning these products is unique and undisclosed. Many gear demos go thru a Princeton or something that adds less colour and yet Anderson’s always uses a victory. Subliminal advertising.
Some of these comments are along the lines of “who cares?” I care and this is the reason. There’s a difference between a review and a demo/promotion. If a review is dressed up as a demo, it’s one thing pretending to be another. It’s people at least not telling the truth, or whole truth, but pretending they are, for money, which is a deceit. There are ‘reviewers’ like John, who says when things are not made well, are disappointing in some way, and says when he just doesn’t like something. A demo will *never* do that. Some people say in their comments “I’d never buy because of a RUclips video” etc because, basically, they feel they’re too smart and experienced to be taken in. Well, good for you, but there are thousands (millions?) who are taken in and think they’re watching an honest review when in fact it’s simply a sales pitch. If someone compares x to y and says they like x better, it means nothing, or actually worse than nothing, if they own the company that makes x or are being paid a lot of money to say x is better. To you integrity may not matter. I know probably three reviewers in the photography world who I respect and trust because of their balance, because of their pros and cons and different conclusions for various products. These are valuable people amongst the sea of promoters and I rely on them for that reason. All power to KDH and long may he continue
But if it's Andertons you must be out of your mind to think its simply a "review". They're a music shop that exists to sell products to make a profit. Nobody should think their reviews are neutral, disinterested reviews, although for a music shop they do a reasonable job. I couldn't care less that they are trying to sell me a Fender amp which they don't part own, for a profit, or a Victory amp which they do part own, for a profit.
@@plantagenant No, of course not, we all know Andertons is a shop so it would be silly to think they would do impartial reviews. The Andertons case was interesting, because of the ownership aspect, which was dealt with by KDH pretty comprehensively. The general principle of what I said is true nonetheless - the lack of transparency and disclosure is widespread and in my opinion Tubers ought to be very clear if it’s a review or a promotion, paid or otherwise. If not, why not?
Caveat Emptor, onus is on the buyer.
And what if you were “duped” into buying the amp, does it change how you play? What if you actually like the amp? There was no wool being pulled over people’s eyes.
@@greysuit17 If you think what he did is OK, that’s your prerogative and we’ll agree to disagree. However, it was illegal and he was contacted by trading standards after which he committed to full disclosure of his involvement with any product in all future videos
I watch your channel because you offer an unbiased view of the gear you review. I can't remember a time when you didn't disclose financial compensation - or being given a piece of gear - in your review.
Of course I also watch your videos to hear your playing ....and to steal your licks. Keep doing what you are doing. Cheers.
More than any gear review, I get tremendous value in your honesty!
Your integrity is very appreciated in the community John. I would really be interested in your take on the deco (which I own and am intrigued by) over hyped vs essential piece of gear ? Reproducible in helix ?
Yours is one of the very few opinions I trust. And even then, we all have our own biases and preferences, it blows my mind how people don't use their ears for these various demos and want someone else to make a decision for them.
Your shootouts with multiple modelers have been super helpful in me picking out gear, but I've definitely went with different modelers than the one you preferred in the video. I value your opinion, but in the end I have to go with what works best for me.
Yes on the Strymon demos. Would love a side-by-side of the Nightsky with Mercury& and Sloer.
We are of course interested in Strymon videos.
I personally could care less because I just assume that any demo or review is just someone else’s opinion and I make up my own mind on everything. What is essential is for those of us who have no shop near us is that the demos/reviews give me an idea of what’s out there and I take a day and go find a shop that sells that item or items I’m interested in. One of my favorite pedals that is an always on was a Anderton’s demo. I can’t buy from them easily but they are a great resource for product. That’s what you tube is to me a resource to see and hear the newest product
Ooh what pedal was that?
@@johnnathancordyI hope he replies, I wanna know too. 😅
Come on man
It's been 2 months
Tell us what pedal it was ... 🤣
Hm, my opinion is: Gear demos are already interesting for me. Simply because I can already get a first impression. But I also agree with you completely, because what I like to call the "RUclips trap" happens very quickly if you're not careful. The objectivity is lost - and thus such a demo is no longer worth much.
I like your channel very much, John. You seem totally authentic and I think it's great that you just do your thing. I love the way you play (the technique & the notes you find...just amazing!). And I like to listen to you, just because you are not an advertising uncle, but look at things the way it works (or doesn't work) for you and your way of making music.
No marketing talk but really useful information and experiences from your everyday life.
Great class, and I thank you very much for it! Thumbs up.
Best regards from Germany.
Michael.
My man, where can I buy any of those wonderful tracks of yours? Honestly!? I see many links in the description, but none of them sends anyone to the real place. I listened to your intro and I got instantly addicted, it felt like being outside, on a beautiful peaceful morning with the smell of fresh grass, beside a beautiful pond... I won't tell you what to do, but don't waste another minute, record an album ASAP my man. You're a superstar. Oh and if this intro made it into some sort of single, I'd buy it for a thousand bucks, it's that magical.
RUclips gets swamped with positive reviews for every product release. I wait to see if they are still saying positive things 6 months later. Amazing how many products are never mentioned again
I personally quite like to hear how a piece of gear has performed over time (hopefully those types of video are interesting too?) because things like tuning stability/dodgy pots are pretty easy to miss in the honeymoon phase and over time I personally find some of my opinions shift or I notice things that I didn't first time round?
The only RUclips reviews I trust are the ones made by non-professional and non-sponsored. The people that do it professionally tend to try to make product sound amazing and usually do so by using $30k-
$100k of pro equipment (amps, guitars, speakers, microphones and recording equipment, etc)… for example when someone is playing a $7k two rock amp I know I’m never gonna be able to duplicate that with my cheap home amp…
I totally agree if you are a part of a company you should say it and if you are getting paid to review gear you always say that you are.
Especially if you are a part owner of a company.
@@JohnShalamskas Exactly.
I finished my earlier comment right before you said the last words of the video, but it does matter. It absolutely does matter having integrity makes all the difference in the world, and don’t think your words are wasted because I heard one of them even though I was typing out a comment and a question I’ve been in the business for 50 years buying selling playing, doing gigs performing etc. and I love it. I’m never going to be a rockstar and I never wanted to be. I was actually more interested in studio work anyway, and as a blind or totally blind person, I feel that the stage may not be the ideal platform for me to be on anyway For safety sake lol but I love the guitar more than anything in this world and I also have a great deal of honor and integrity myself. I am working on opening the channel or starting one as you may read for my earlier, and I have built up a ton of gear, so I am super excited about starting my channel and I hope that I can be as honest and maintain the same integrity you have I will certainly always be transparent With my audience, I think victory is fine so amplifiers I don’t hold it against Lee for owning it or owning part of it but at the same time I don’t think it’s a vote of confidence that he did not disclose it either and certainly that has made me less focused on their videos But I can truly tell you that doing the right thing although much harder most of the time always pays off not many guitars especially considering I’m a blues rock guitarist but God‘s watching man and that’s a fact and I try to keep that in mind in my daily life as I walk with God because I do believe you can be a Christian and play a blues guitar at the same time Again that’s personal choice. Thanks for a great channel and honest opinions. You’ve got my And commitment to your channel so obviously it’s working on some people. 16:32 16:32
Very nice intro. I loved the little solo towards the end.
I had no idea Lee owned Victory until recently! I should of connected the dots when Guthrie Govan used Cornford (then later Victory). I felt Guthrie single-handedly put the brand on the map and blew it up (because of those amazing jam tracks). It was ridiculous how fast we recognised Guthrie as one of the best in the world. I'm sure Lee saw it early too. He is probably the reason why I use legato more, instead of furiously alternate picking everything 😂
Liked and subbed just from the intro instrumental alone. Beautiful
Interesting video and topic. I definitely apply healthy skepticism to all of this at this point. I assume the vast majority of reviews have a personal / profit motive when it comes to their reviews and opinions of the gear. So if there is an amp or guitar I am interested in I try to watch as many reviews / demos as I can to get the best overall impression I can of the product. Ultimately if it's a more expensive item that I am not able to try out before I purchase, I'll order from one the companies that have a generous return policy.
Off topic sorry, but your playing, your touch mesmerises me every time. Well done 🎶🎶🎶
Like EVH said, “just play” 😂 … but in all seriousness, transparency is always welcomed. After buying gear for almost 30 years, you kind of know what you want and gear demos help just to give you an idea on how it will sound. I still have to do a ton of research before buying anything since I live in Mexico and I buy stuff in the US and take it here. There are good stores on my town, and I’ve bought more stuff locally in the last 4-5 years, but there are some brands I just get to know through videos, so I always appreciate your videos or other similar channels.
I appreciate your viewpoint on this.
For me, I watch demos to hear what something sounds like.
I get that some of us get paid or are given gear for demos.
Honestly, I'm kind of soured on the whole getting stuff for free in trade for demo videos. I've just finished a few videos and the sponsor has been really cool but, I'm just tired of doing gear demos. Also, most of my gear videos are for products I've purchased myself since that's more fun.
The rub in all this is that gear videos do bring in views. So yeah, while an occasional sponsored video may happen, but I'd like to shift to other content.
This is what I've experienced too, if it's a piece of gear that I've gone through the usual process of what I assume a viewer goes through i.e. hears about a piece of gear, or has been interested in the gear for years since it was used by guitar hero #7 or whatever.
Happy to see you demo Strymon products!!
The best part of your videos is that your clean sound is clean.
“Back in my day” every review was a paid demo(pretty much magazines only when I was a kid). I never have expected “non biased reviews” and I don’t put much stock in a reviewers opinion.
As far as Anderson’s goes, I don’t care to go back through all the old videos but I seem to remember it being mentioned on multiple occasions that they partnered with victory amps. While they may favor certain products in terms of screen time, I don’t think they have misrepresented anything.
I am more bothered by kdh stirring up drama and pretending to be the moral police of the guitar RUclips community.
I agree. I've got ears and I can decide for myself if a piece of gear sounds like it might be of interest. Andertons are a business trying to make a profit. Does it matter if they sell say Marshall amps for a profit or Victory amps that they part own? In both cases they are going to tell you the product is good and worth your money. Now that I know Andertons part own Victory it makes absolutely no difference to whether I would consider buying one.
I appreciate your honesty. I started using RUclips for gear reviews a couple of years ago. I’ve been a guitar teacher for a number of years, but always interested in the tone chase from a gigging musician standpoint to a teaching standpoint. It has certainly been a good tool unfortunately the fact is is that most of these reviewers there has to be something more in it for them and I honestly think the people that want to have the most successful channels should buy the gear And resell it if they want but the fact is if they’re not willing to spend their money on it how can they expect any customer to do that I buy high gear that’s one of the reasons I look at these reviews in the guitar world there’s no doubt you do get what you pay for Years ago it was more competitive but now it seems extremely competitive but the truth is you get what you pay for so if you want to grade amp you spend $3000 and you get one and it’s done it really just depends on who you are and what your intentions and goals are but thanks for your honesty again and truly if you wouldn’t buy it wash, should I thanks Some of these guys on RUclips have become guitar heroes in a sense I know my students talk about them frequently I don’t want them influencing them to purchase a PV amplifier when my honest opinion is that it’s a piece of crap no offense to anyone reading this comment but It’s just too much packed into two little too many potential problems. I truly tried to encourage my students to go for the most basic Tube Amplifier best they can afford. Of course I am an old-school player, so I still use tubes myself. I don’t think that any computer in my opinion can keep up or dial in the exact tones that I’m able to but then again some people do fantastic with it so I’m not going to knock what they’re doing. I’m just going to say I like doing it the way I have been since I was 13 years old 38 years ago and before I got two different masters degree in music either way thanks again
What needs to be considered is shops doing reviews of gear is not without bias. They are there to sell gear. When they say the "best practice amp", it will be out of those that they stock not every amp available. There are incentives from manufacturers to sell gear and push certain brands. We as consumers are not stupid we know this. What it does give is an opportunity to hear the gear, so use your ears. Andertons are one of the best at doing this, and with all the products I have brought from them I don't feel cheated in any way.
In Andertons case they are a store. Consider all their videos ads. They make them to sell gear. If they have have ownership in a product or not doesn’t really matter they are a store so they have interest in everything they sell. All videos (and all information of any type) you have to consider the biases of the people giving the information. Even people with seemingly no financial stake in a subject will have their biases. Be an informed consumer of information.
Finally somebody who’s honest! Thank you. Subscribed!
I take every 'review' as a demo. I mainly watch for the sounds and display if the features not the opinion
I liked the video at the opening jam, that was class 👌
Very tasteful discussion free of drama. I see reviews and demos all the time that are secret ads. I am an audio engineer and I watch gear demos through very good studio equipment and I have seen gear demos many times in a multiple places where comparisons were swapped or a deceptive tactic was used to manipulate the viewer's perception. Some demo makers and reviewers are professional shills and when there is some level of direct profit sharing, they will do whatever benefits them. The more direct the ties are to something, the more manipulated the material is, what a coincidence! People that make videos have to make money to live from, but this small niche of the economy has really taken an interesting turn lately to be more unscrupulous and I do think that viewers need to beware and it's a good discussion to have.
Very transparent John. I bought an MX-5 based on a plethora of reviews including yours, and only by comparison.
The T-shirt in reference to Victory is hilarious. Same thing - felt a vibe that Lee Anderton was a part of ownership when I saw the website and there was no 'about us' or ownership information on the website, and the artist models were Rob and Rabea... hmmm...
Demos have an ‘everything is awesome’ vibe.
We need reviews that state which products are better and worth our money.
With RUclipsrs always need to see what they actually choose to play or put on their own board to get a real idea of preferences
KDH really rocked the boat, cool. I for one, when researching for a purchase prefer videos of regular, unknown youtubers like yours truly, personally I'm here much more for the playing and lessons than gear
The one thing I often think about gear demo's, is that even if one is not paid, the sound we hear is usually through an attenuator, or some kind of digital interface that goes straight into computer and either headphones or studio monitors. Of course this is not the same as hearing something in the room; but then if things are consistent, one can sometimes develope a comparative audio imprint in one's own mind, and form a " relative" idea of how some gear sounds. The person using the gear also changes how the gear sounds, but no-one can do anything about that, so ,of course, the best method is to try out the article st an actual bricks and mortar music shop, but the proliferation of on-line demo's is coincident with the diminishing of sctual stores, and in some parts (eg New Zealand) no- one can see anything but the most mainstream and high-selling gear, so although being on line is great for browsing, it's having a bad effect ( excuse unintentional pun) on the real physical environment of many musicians. I'm not a great player, but I believe, maybe wrongly that I have a good ear, so I continue to watch videos amd try to develope some relative comparisons with gear; but the main reason I watch video demo's is because I appreciate the playing of whoever does them. I like your playing, and along with three or four others, I watch pretty well all of your videos to enjoy the music, and if I think a product sounds good, I try and track them down locally to confirm what I've heard. Sometimes this is not possible, because by the time an "economical " product reaches our shores it's travelled a long way and if it's not required in Australia, we get the few leftovers at a pumped up price. ( moan,moan) I have occasionally bought cheap guitars on line, availing myself of my wife's credit card, and giving her the cash, and so far I've had three positive results by taking a chance, but hearing is believing. Thanks awhain for providing some good musical entertainment on your channel in each video, so even if the product is beyond me or I'm not interested, I still find enjoyment there, so keep it up and thank you.
John gives a point of stability to gear reviews. I like down to earth approach and honesty. The small Patreon contribution every month is well worth it. The splash screen for demo's from other reviewer's tells you everything: They look like they have just finished watching a porn movie!
I have been playing guitar since the late 1990s and have recently gotten into stomp boxes. Previously I used the Boss GT-5 and then GT-8. I have watched a lot of review/demo videos and I enjoy them. It doesn't really matter to me whether or not the person was sponsored as long as they declare it up front.
What I don't 'like' or find as helpful as they could be, is when videos only use one guitar and one amplifier to demo a pedal for instance. If you only have one of each then there is little viable option but for people like Andertons, I think it would be more useful to demo gear on a range of instruments etc. I have bought pedals (admittedly cheap ones) and had a very different experience to that suggested by the video.
In general, with reviews I have always been skeptic. Movie reviews, gear, and other odds and ends. If something catches my attention I feel like I have to research or do a deep dive before I buy something. This channel helped me in my decision to buy a helix.
In general though, I think a lot of reviews should disclose if they are paid to do so, or not. Its why I enjoy some or the more neutral channels that are fine grilling a product or explaining the good and bad. Ola Englund has been pretty transparent with any of his recent demos and he does go into the good and bad of a product usually, thankfully.
Appreciate the level-headed response. I wish it was more common.
The number of people who are willing to toss aside morality because they have a parasocial attachment to a salesman is depressing. As is the number of channels I've seen bashing KDH. I've learned some of the channels I followed are far less trustworthy than I would have thought. "We tell you our honest opinion, even if it gets us in trouble with brands... But Lee did nothing wrong and KDH is an unlikable shitstirrer."
At least it has helped expose some channels being so two-faced. But none of this has been enjoyable.
I’m mostly a Boss and E-H guy but would love to know more about Strymon
I have acquired a Stomp after extensively watching many of your videos! And i think its really good!
Disclaimer: I am always here for the playing, but I enjoy the honest chat too
Got into a discussion with another commenter about a fairly popular youtuber than loves EVERYTHING he shows on his channel. Just gushes about how amazing it is. Never has a bad word to say about anything. I don't believe a word he says anymore. The other guy was oblivious and thought it was all just spontaneous. 😉😉
I agree with the point about the importance of KDHs role.
The thing is, we're not just talking about being honest or nice to your community, but about following the law.
In the uk it's illegal to not mark advertisment as such, so Lee just plain and simply broke the law.
The advertisment laws are also there for a reason and Lee is a good example:
carismatic generally nice guy regularly praising more or less directly a brand which he coowns, in videos which reach thousands of people...
Great video. Experienced something similar myself with a Chinese guitar maker. I don’t trust too many people on YT anymore. Too much self interest out there.
The main point that wasn't clearly made here John, is that Anderton's is a store. How is Lee having stake in Victory different than a given product having better margins than another. It isn't. You're watching a video from a store not John Nathan Cordy's personal youtube channel. Anyone who confuses that deserves to be confused. Really enjoy your channel btw.
You are such a very tasteful player. Really enjoy your picking.
Your honesty is to be admired , but at the end of the day you have to make a living, I enjoy your videos, more so what you can get out the guitar and the gear you are using. This is why sponsors are after you, please take it while you can ,. just stay honest, as you are. Dont get shut out by big donors
p.s. the lesson based videos are gold . . . it's why I'm still a Patreon :)
Great video, playing also.
Respect for your thoughts. Long time ago I clearly figured out that Andertons you tube channel is nothing but marketing. Guess they do what ever they can to sell their products, just go easy with their “advice” :-)
I don't put as much weight/trust in the actual person/RUclipsr/demo'er as youtubers think! I have listened to hundreds of demos of all the top modelers, profilers and so on (yours are some of my favorites because of your playing!). There are so MANY demos of virtually EVERY modeler, profiler, capturer, ... that I personally don't care who or why, as long as I can see and hear the device being used. What I have discovered (and we all know this, we just want that shinier object!) is that you can actually get by with a $500 unit, 98% of the time: we are at the point now where it comes down to which unit has the best UI, or which has the most configurability. Is this a first world problem? But I also know the RUclips demos help the companies (or else they would not reach out to people). Keep doin the demos, we'll decide if you are honest or not! (I appreciate your transparency)
I personally assume that all gear reviews or demos are commercials until I come to believe otherwise.
From Leo: Anytime A shop owner (or his hired salesman) is demonstrating a product, I fully understand that it is part of business. I don't care in the least if he got it from a distributor, partially owns the manufacturer or if he builds the product in his garage after his evening supper. This whole idea that everyone is supposed to do a bunch of stuff for free for them, with no other gain is selfish fantasy. Even your mother does not do that. Not a single person on youtube signs up and turns down the money.
good points thank you
I own victory v50, and I can't understand how victory didn't go broke building them , absolutely brilliant engineering wiring and craftsmanship. It is my favourite
Lol
Personally I think the backlash on the KDH video is just that his personality doesn't have universal appeal and his delivery of the information can be a bit contrived in the sense that he could perhaps give the information in a more neutral way that doesn't have him come off like he's the self appointed youtube police and he's made a ground breaking discovery on a tough case that nobody could crack. With that said though I think it was important for him to help clarify Lee Anderton's involvement and for it to be disclosed properly.
Sorry for getting out of the topic, but will you talk about Liquid Profiling? I'm curious about your opinion on the new update from kemper.
Agreed, took KDH to put hear on Lee for them to come clean.
For me, gear demos can be a way to come across a piece of gear I’ve never heard of and could fill a void. Anything I buy though, I will always make sure it’s gotten a 30 day return policy. I’ve tried so much gear that has been really hyped up that I hated. It’s all personal preference. There’s no good or bad as Mick says but what you like.
I would love to see you demo/review the Strymon dual drive pedals, Sunset and Riverside. I always trust you to give your honest opinion. (Update - oops, I see you've already compared these two pedals, back in 2019! I'll have to watch that video. In any case, I'd be happy to see you review any Strymon products, whether they're loaned to you or you're paid or not, whatever!)
Yes, I’d much rather you buy the gear you review than accept manufacturers “gifts”, because we’re more likely to get an honest review. Too many gear reviews never give negative feedback about marginal gear. I’ve bought too much gear I’ve been disappointed with so I don’t trust channels that always love every bit of gear they feature. Buy the gear, tell us what you really think, then sell it off to recoup the cost, or most of it. Would be much better for your subscribers. Love KDH btw, he keeps them honest. And I’ve never trusted Lee Anderton, nor especially Chappers, he’s as dishonest as they come.
Rob Chapman is the worst kind of lying scumbag
@johnnathancordy reviews are definitely useful. Like you I’m in the south west uk, between Exeter and Bristol. Being a parent makes you time poor. It’s hard enough to get time to nip to a shop and now the last few years the smaller towns have lost their guitar shops. (5 near me are gone). I was in Exeter last week and as you probably know it’s lost mansons and musicroom. Will I go on guitar safari there again to visit life guitars who sell online and project music? Probably not unless passing. The point is - it’s hard to get hands on gear. I think review what you think fits your niche and interests without allowing it to take the channel into the weeds.
I enjoy watching demos/reviews/comparisons on RUclips, whether the person is getting paid or not. I do like to KNOW whether they have a financial interest, but I feel like I can come to useful conclusions as long as the video doesn't actively sabotage one product versus another. In addition, I'm currently looking at reverb pedals, and often will let demos play whether or not I'm seriously considering that particular unit just because the sounds are so good.
Super sensitive playing for that intro, really impressive showcase of what the gear can deliver
I love Strymon stuff- would definitely enjoy your videos on their products 👍
It’s like everyone reviewing that new Jackson guitar and before it, it was the Acoustasonic Jazzmaster or the Spark Amp, etc.
Having managed a music store for 6 years, and been a musician my whole life, I have no problem with people doing paid reviews as long as they are people of integrity. The reality is if you are a good reviewer, people will want your opinion on gear that you may not choose to or can afford to buy yourself.
As long as the companies that pay you for your reviews allow you to speak honestly I don't see a problem.
I'll further that by saying any company that is not willing to allow you to give an honest review is not when you want to be associated with anyhow.
A review that gives you the pros and cons on a product is going to create a better customer satisfaction level in those that decide to buy the product because they already know the potential downsides and have realistic expectations.