Do you guys have the old saying: "Gotta eat a little crow"? It's classically used when you really screw up and you have to apologize. Sometimes you gotta apologize to a lot of people. I find myself in that un-desirable position today. I've been very vocal (and adamant) that I based my SmoothFlight tool on the original code base that Muumimorko and Fragtality made. To be very quick about it... I was wrong. I thought I was being careful to only use from that code base until I had explicit permission to use anything from ResetXPDR. But I screwed up and had some cross-pollination. I could come up with lots of reasons how or why that happened ... but let's cut to the chase. I screwed up - and I screwed up with proof right in my code. I'd make a lousy criminal. Freakin' brilliant. It's like committing a crime and leaving your business card at the scene with a blood sample. So it's no wonder that ResetXPDR was upset with me. And I was clueless. Because... as of about an hour ago, I still thought I hadn't used his code. But we had a chat, and there it is. I have to admit that it really makes me look like a scumbag. I humbly ask for forgiveness. I have broken a trust. It's also my first red flag that I might have cognitive decline - so that's a wonderful diagnosis... old age sux but that's a story for another time. At any rate, I need to amend my earlier statements: I have 3 people to thank for my ability to have an idea like this... build the mod, and then share it with you guys. Muumimorko, Fragtality and ResetXPDR. As a famous guy once said: "We stand on the shoulders of Giants"
Thanks for this posting, it clarify the situation. I would be nice that you also describe how you software do better that the 2 others. How do you differentiate?
Thank you for owing up to this, and publicly too. It takes real guts to do that. In response, I am completely satisfied that it was inadvertent and I forgive you. If I can do that being the one most affected, I hope that others can too and continue to use and support your app into the future.
@@eaglefirestudioI'm hoping that in the future, the differences in our 2 approaches will begin to separate us a bit more. Now that we have a more open line of communication, I expect a bit more of a difference to emerge. Also, I've already been in contact with 2 people that tell me my version doesn't do anything for them..and I find it's refreshing to be able to point them to ResetXPDR's version as an alternative. I could agree with the messy comment, except that they both use the exact same "mobiflight-event-module" that goes in the Community folder, so running comparisons with them couldn't be easier. It's kind of the opposite of messy.
@somewhereelsestudio6342 While I was quick to criticise you yesterday, I applaud you for coming back publicly and apologising....well done! After thinking about it more, I believe the VR Flight Sim Guy jumped the gun a bit and could have maybe have done a tad of research before posting....he did that once before with an initial Windows11 and G2 being wiped out video he posted then retracted when he realised he had created unfounded panic....anyway, alls well that ends well eh?
@VRFlightSimGuy mentioned something during his review that I feel I should address: The "Landing Mode" setting caused a quick stutter when he crossed the threshold. and that's due to an intentional decision. If the difference between your current graphics settings and the ones you have selected in the "Landing Mode" are too much, then yes, you will see the change happen. That's because "Landing Mode" is designed to be a "safe space" where no automatic adjustments are allowed. A "Sterile cockpit" if you will... So I give you 2 choices. 1. Force those settings at the altitude threshold (that you can set as high as 500 ft above the runway). Because one quick quarter-second stutter and then butter-smooth for the rest of the landing is better than a slide-show that lasts all the way down. 2. Or...use the "Freeze" option. Freeze will just stop updating graphics as you cross the threshold. The settings might still be too high, but at least you have a choice of how to handle it. On the other hand, the issue that he saw during landing wouldn't have been a problem if he was following a normal glide path, as that would have given the SmoothFlight tool enough time to invisibly adjust the graphic quality on the way. That being said, if this continues to be an issue then I'll be writing a new algorithm for approaches. This is most assuredly a work in progress. The ability to do this kind of a mod has only recently been available. So (as my good friend continues to say: "More to come" on this subject)
Outstanding effort, I’ve tried running both of the apps together, it seemed to work ok, good fps. I’ll give this app a good test tomorrow at some point.
@@goochygoochoutdoors.1913 Definitely don't do this. Both programs will be competing to modify the variables that represent the TLOD and OLOD. One of the other, not both!
Why no admission that you just piggy backed onto the original developers app and the major improvement that Reset XPDR published a few days before you released this...not good to imply its all your work, you should definitely give credit to the 2 guys who were there before you
@@GunPilotI never implied that it was *all* my work. And I have given credit to the 2 guys before me. But you're making accusations you know nothing about. Those 2 guys are Muumimorko and Fragality. With the exception of their code that talks to and from MSFS, this program *is* all mine. My design... my code. Both ResetXPDR and I branched off the same code that was built by Muumimorko (the MobiConnect part) and Fragality (the rest of the proof of concept code known as DynamicLOD) after both of them had abandoned the project and announced there would be no further updates. It was at that point that both of us each created a new fork and began to work on our own ideas. (By the way, I originally asked ResetXPDR to collaborate on the project, but he declined. ) After a short discussion, we agreed that our different approaches were unique enough that it would be difficult to collaborate. At the time, ResetXPDR's version was nearly identical to the latest version of the Fragality code... in that it was all based on AGL with a couple of spreadsheets and hard coded AGL = LOD pairings. The version of the original DynamicLOD that I used as a base for the communication with between the tool and MSFS has none of ResetXPDR's code in in it. So yes, I'm using Muumimorko's very slick communication engine to talk to MSFS. The majority of the remainder of the code I'm assuming belongs to Fragality - and it is pages (and pages) of code to manage the spreadsheets that correlate AGL to LOD settings. And since I was not about to base my idea on AGL, that was entirely discarded. But to claim I piggy-backed off of Reset's code? That has no basis in reality.. You must think I saw Reset's autoFPS tool and then built (and tested) mine in 4 days??? I'm flattered that you think I'm that fast, but no. This took time. It's a design I've had ever since MSFS came out with VR support three and a half years ago. Without Muumimorko's amazing Memory Injection code, it wasn't possible until just recently. While we're on the subject, the original design for this came from a title that Papyrus came out with in 1995 (I think) called Indy Car Racing 2, that would change the number of cars you could see based on FPS. Back then getting 12-14 FPS was considered decent performance.
Darren; the short answer is this: You should know 3 things about your current settings. Your current Terrain LOD, Object LOD, and what FPS you normally hit with those settings. 1. Set the FPS to a value your video card can hit. It won't do you much good if you set it so high that the SmoothFlight tool continually tries to lower your graphics settings to get you above that FPS threshold. That would look ugly. This doesn't give your computer more power. It does however very intelligently adjust your settings to make the best use of what you have.... all without cooking your video card. (check your video card temperature while this is running - you'll be surprised) 2. In the "Limits" section, set the maximum values to roughly the same as what you now use in normal MSFS flight. In other words, DON"T set these to maximum. This is important, unless all you want is the best visuals at all costs. Note: Once SmoothFlight has found how far it can push the TLOD and OLOD settings without your FPS dropping below your FPS threshold... it will have found the optimum settings for that moment in time. The good news is, it's going to keep double-checking to make sure you are *still* using the optimal settings during your entire flight... so yes, you can go from flying over the ocean to flying low over Lower Manhattan with 3,000 x 3000 supersampling in VR and this beast will auto-compensate and keep you smooth. When you leave the city, the higher graphics come back and you never leave too much power on the table. 3. If you have the maximum values set low enough, and SmoothFlight was able to reach those maximums without dropping below the minimum threshold, the remaining power / headroom is not wasted. It will be converted back into higher FPS. It's not uncommon for me to have my minimum set to 40 FPS, TLOD set to 125 (for scenery out as far as I can see anyway), OLOD set to 85 (because if I miss a baggage cart at the airport, I really don't care) and actual FPS is in the 70's. In VR. Don't be suckered into setting a high FPS number. This number won't limit your FPS. It only sets a threshold by which lots of calculations start happening.
@@somewhereelsestudio6342What do you recommend for landing settings? Seeing what Steve set for his landing settings seems a bit low no? Also...for alitude...if I set it to 33 does that mean 3,300 feet is the altitude at which the settings lock in for landing?
@@JM1701ABCDAs mentioned elsewhere, you can disregard the "Landing Mode" and just let it adjust based on performance. but for those who really love tweaking and want a bit more control for landings, the option is there.
What I would really love to see is something that stops MSFS spontaneously adjusting the terrain mesh when close up to mountains - as you are here. There's hardly ever improved visual fidelity when that happens, but it is a total immersion breaker in VR, at least when you're ridge soaring.
100% agree with you @bulversteher. As a creator of some race tracks for MSFS, I find it insane that Asobo can get the X-Y coordinates of those mountain peaks correct from 20 miles away, but is continually adjusting the elevation right up until you get within arms reach. but it's the limitations of the current sim ...and we all deal with them. The only thing you can do to help alleviate that is to set your TLOD setting higher. This will cause the levels of detail to be drawn at a greater distance. (I was able to gather that Asobo has 14 different LOD levels for terrain) But as we all know, if you set that too high, it gets like a slide-show and that's another immersion breaker.
I think with 2024 they've all but given up on 2020. I have high hopes for the new version built from the ground up with the lessons learned. I think we'll come to view 2020 as a paid beta, with 2024 hopefully being absolutely amazing 🙏Shame we have to pay twice, but worth every penny
Yes, Yes, Yes... An explanation of each setting, what it attempts to accomplish, and what reasonable values might be considered for low-end, mid-range, and high-end graphics cards would be helpful. I've been playing with AutoFPS for a few days now with decent results. Now spending time with this new app. Having this capability embedded in the sim would be awesome but KUDOS to the persistence of the author. I will definitely contribute some $$.
I would really appreciate a head-to-head or comparison between this and AutoFPS. I assume you can’t run both at the same time, so basically which one is ‘better’ for general uses. Since they both seem brilliant, it’s hard to know which one to go for
Thanks so much! This app is amazing. I don't use VR but got only ~20-25 FPS (3080/i5 11400) fsr frame gen pushed it to 40 but still micro stutters, now im at around 70, no stutters at all. Just Amazing.
Incredible.. Without tweaking the standard settings it made a huge difference in stutter. Not flown it yet but sitting on the tarmac was far better than ever. 3080 Graphics card, Quest 3 VR. First impressions were excellent.
Great video Steve, I also would like a comparison between auto fps and smooth flight with a settings guide. It’s amazing we have these tools to improve our VR.
it's good. Still seeing micro stutters at edge of performance limits but the frame pacing seems much better. Low Flying and looking down the Wing cord, you get a smoother experience.
I love AutoFPS and gave this a try. Both are identical apart from AutoFPS using cloud detail change when needed to maintain FPS. Both great programs and Asobo need to take note !
AFAIK The reason you want 45 fps (half of 90) is for the motion re-projection, consistent interpolated artificial frames. Then MSFS added a triple option so 30/90 IIRC, been a while for me. See vid here from a year ago etc for more details.
Thank you for keeping us so informed. Does this one also adjust the clouds like the other one does? And also are you able to minimize so you don't see it in your screen all the time? Thank you
Clouds are not yet implemented. Changing cloud detail is VERY noticeable and was therefore not included ... but the more I read about cloud manipulation, the more I'm tempted to add it. I did some performance testing myself with cloud adjustments, and found the results to be rather un-impressive. That might have to do with the fact that I'm using a 4090 card but I saw no more than one FPS difference between Low detailed clouds and Ultra. Yet I read how everyone else thinks that clouds are "da bomb". So back to the test bench for me. Still, some rather impressive results are possible without such visually obvious changes. And I value invisible mods more than the things that reduce immersion. Yes, this can be minimized... or better yet, the "secret" mini-mode. check the upper left hand corner of the app window. There's a tiny silver button up there that will shrink the app to post-it note size. You can "paste" that anywhere in the cockpit in VR - totally out of the way, but still able to read how it's doing.
Interesting video. My only question is will these tools work with any gaming - not just flight games? I do SIM racing and other VR sports games and with the Quest 3 now. Looks like these are specific to Flight Sim games.
Hi Steve. Thank you for always bringing the VR community cutting edge info. As a big fan of Almalence( i know you don’t care much for it) have you tried running this app with that mod? Ty in advance
Stuttering has ruined MSFS VR for me so tried both of these. They both report a frame rate of around 40-60 (target 32), don't apply much lowering of details, and the stutter is still wild. Can you have a high frame rate and stutter?
I’m so out of the loop that I’m so happy you keep me / us In the loop. I’ll have to give this a try but I’m happy I get 25fps so I’ll try 30? and see what performance gain I get at what noticeable details loss. Thanks for showing
I am going to try this, I don't know if this will help but I notice that 99% of my stutters in VR come from when I am flying over add on scenery created by users. I feel like a lot of the time the scenery is just not optimized and while it may work OK in 2D mode it is a no go for VR. For example, I had Boston add on scenery from enjoy it fly installed. In 2D it is great but in VR I was getting MASSIVE stutters. I deleted it and added the Boston Scenery from the Modern US Cities add on scenery from the Markey place and just like that 99% of the stutters were gone. I believe we could be looking at a data throughput bottleneck where the sim is trying to download too much data and inject it into the sim and it just can't in real time. That is my working theory at least lol.
Have you tried turning AMD FX Sharpening down? I run mine at zero and I get a much clearer image in VR, especially in the cockpit looking at the instruments.
Thanks so much for sharing, exciting stuff! So do you turn off ASW / Space warping when you using Smooth Flight? If all this add-on does it adjust the TLOD and OLOD then why cant it work with ASW do you suppose? About to test this and will certainly make a donation, what a legend @Michael Manthei
The majority of questions seem to be focused around some type of setup guide, so would it be a benefit if I did a Twitch stream and went through that? I'm not much on making RUclips videos but a stream would allow for some interaction.... a question and answer session type of thing.
@@VRFlightSimGuyI guess the trick is to find a good time. With users all over the planet, when would be the best time to do this? I suppose the VOD will be around for viewing later, but getting in on the active questions would be beneficial. Anyone have ideas?
@@somewhereelsestudio6342which HW do you use? And much more interesting what linking SW do you use? I got a quest 2 and have horrible stutters likely due to linking SW
@@Alexander-hk5ke I replied to this hours ago but it's not showing up. I don't know what you mean by HW and linking SW. Please explain. Could you be referring to HardWare and SoftWare? I have a Quest 3 and use the link cable. If you mean something different.. I'll try to answer once I know what HW and SW mean. Also, It's important to realize that stutters are generated by lots of different things. .. and at no time have I ever claimed that this eliminates stuttering. It's true that almost everyone who uses it (and has reviewed it) reports a dramatic decrease in stutters, but in reality, there are causes for stutters that I have no control over. It's designed to automatically adjust graphics within the limitations of your hardware. So the bottom line is: If you set unreasonable expectations of a tool like this, it's going to disappoint ya. :) For instance if you never got more than 30 FPS on medium settings, but you installed SmoothFlight and cranked up your options to "ultra" and then demanded 65 FPS, it's going to get ugly. That's an extreme example, but I want to reiterate that the best setup advice I can give is this: Leave your system options alone and setting a reasonable FPS that your system can hit - - and you'll probably be in the ballpark.
More in depth please. Sounds fantastic. Problem with Auto fps is, that it is not aware where and what you fly. Takeoff in the alps with TLOD 50 and flying in mountain regions with GA or helicopter is a difficult to handle usecase
Great video and potentially very useful tool. Would you be able to make another video of how to set this software, please? Which setting are more important, which are less and so on. Thanks
Nice job on the approach in Innsbruck! As a pilot, I can't pass by without mentioning, landing must be done from the opposite side. Noise amendment procedures 🙄 Keep up the great work! ✈👏
Great info and ap! I think I know the answer but wondering if I should still use OpenXR together with Smooth Flight? Smooth Flight is showing 9FPS on my low spec system but seems like it might be getting 3x.
Thanks for sharing this with all of us. I followed all the instructions for installing Smooth Flight but the app only shows "sim running" but not "Connected" or "Controllable". Please do an installation video for Smooth Flight including all the steps necessary. If you have any specific suggestions for me, please advise. And thanks again for all the useful flight sim video topics that you present.
I can't imagine an installation video would be necessary. You should put the "mobiflight-event-module" in your Community folder. MSFS must be rebooted after this step. If this is not done, you will see the symptoms you describe. Otherwise I've not seen that issue.
@@somewhereelsestudio6342 I did what you suggested and I am still getting the same results as before. Once more people try this product you may find that there are other issues that need to be addressed. If there is anything else you can suggest to troubleshoot the problem, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
@@somewhereelsestudio6342 Well, my problem was an installation issue. I resolved it by downloading and installing AutoFPS. The install program of that product automatically checks for and installs the latest versions of the other utilities needed. It It determined that the Mobi module (which I DLd from the Smooth Flight page link) was out of date. It installed an updated version and now Smooth Flight runs as expected.
Auto FPS was working amazing although i surprisingly had stuttering on my last use of it with a glider in the Alps??? Ill give this a try and look forward to any settings advice you can give?
My best advice would be to set some reasonable limits. The worst thing you can do is set FPS to 90 and TLOD maximum to 400. This will NOT give your video card superpowers and magically give you the ability to run everything on Ultra. So, try this as a starting point. Look at what you currently have your Terrain LOD and Object LOD set to. Set the TLOD max limit and OLOD Max limit to the same numbers. Then set FPS to a value that's a bit lower than what you can normally hit. Set Deadzone to 3 or 4 FPS higher than FPS minimum. This will give you a comfortable zone where no changes are necessary. Then go fly. You should have some room to auto-adjust to varying conditions whether that's higher or lower. Edit for clarification: Some are still confused to the real function of the FPS setting. It does not limit your FPS. It''s merely a directive to SmoothFlight that says: "Please don't let FPS fall below THIS". It's very common for me to have my FPS set to 40 and my actual FPS to be fluctuating between 70 and 80. This is where SmoothFlight really shines. Sometimes I'll just head for a large city and dial up a blizzard to watch SmoothFlight handle it. I can hear it faintly say: "Is that all you got? "
Hi, Tried this and it only says "Sim running" Connected and Controllable still red. So seems to be doing nothing. Not sure how to get it running properly.
Do the same clip over London and the Heathrow payware airport. Totally different and imo the additional tools don’t help anything, raw Nvidia power does.
For AutoFPS on a 2080TI is best with 30 cap Repro in OpenXR Toolkit. For my other 3080 is good with 45 Repro. With this it may still need Repro all the same. Only thing is Repro will make calcs slower is all. Would not like an abrupt change. AutoFPS may suffice.
Give it a try. It costs nothing. And you might find that the equally-spaced frames are actually smoother looking than what you get with motion reprojection technologies.... so it's worth a shot.
I think its just a coincidence and something else is at play, but after using auto fps, my pimax vr fps has dropped to 19 (smart smoothing), i still need to try to figure out why though. I did the 'uninstall' on autofps and the dynamiclod one too, but something is now amiss.
I normally limit my frame rate to 40 fps in OpenXR Toolkit. Should I no longer do that if using this App? Also, what is RA under the OLOD on the FPS page of the APP?
@@VRFlightSimGuy Good evening, I just tried this application in VR mode and for me it changes absolutely nothing, I don't see any difference in terms of increase in fps!!!
msfs/sim rig dof h3 pimax crystal and all the other open xr pimax xr opencomposite.. to open when I want to start it. thank god for batch files to open them all at once.. another one added to the queue.
Will check this out tonight. I do find when there’s lots of other aircraft around Valley my quest 3 frame rate drops lots. I was getting 30fps last night then when I came into land I was getting 8fps. Bloody scary. You have no real idea when you have actually touched down at 8fps. lol. So any software that can help will be good.
Frame rate and stuttering has never been an issue even with my old 2070 super. The issue is clarity, definition and blurriness. All things that still exist in VR even with my new 4070ti.
It's awfully kludgy - as I don't know how to get a user interface to show up on the in-game ribbon menu... but here's how I've been doing it: First I get all my windows set up and the in-game windows placed where I want them. I don't know how everyone else does it, but I guess we all end up in the same place. But basically, do your normal method to get the SmoothFlight window into the VR space with you. Just before you launch VR, Alt-Tab to the SmoothFlight app by holding the Alt button down and tap Tab until the app is highlighted: then release Alt key. Then one more Alt-tab to go back to MSFS . Because of the default way Microsoft windows works (and has since W95) your most recent 2 windows will always be the default windows to focus. While in VR, you can alt-tab again and it will bring the SmoothFlight app into focus. Alt-tab again to go back to MSFS. I mapped alt-tab to a button on my StreamDeck so I don't have to fumble around to find the keyboard in VR. So yea, it's a bit of a kludgy workaround for now. But it lets me make changes while flying without leaving VR. To be fair though, the main focus of SmoothFlight is that you find your settings and then leave it alone. So hopefully you'll adopt that workflow soon and this will be a non-issue.
@somewhereelsestudio6342 Cool. I will give it a try. To be honest, I was hoping you had some clever way to bring Windows apps into VR. 🙂 I wrote an in-game popup for my app (rsFirstOfficer) but it seems to cause stutters so I don't promote that feature. Thanks for all your efforts on this handy tool.
Tried this after viewing vid. I wouldn't say game changer, but it seems to help somewhat, worth trying and tinkering with. I'm going to try throwing some real fps killer sceneries at it and see how it does. The concept is great, everyone should try it.
Wow. Sounds amazing, Steve. I will try this, even though I'm very close to 100% stutter free as is, running the 4090 at half, like yourself. A very clever piece of software, and I will definitely donate 🙂 Have a great week, buddy. Love from Norway ♥♥♥♥♥
Thanks to continued updates and optimizations from Asobo, it's true that many of us can run stutter free. However, the settings you use to get stutter free are truthfully only good when flying in the same kind of environment that you created them in. Take those settings to one of the major cities (NYC, Tokyo, Paris, London, etc) and your hard-coded stutter-free existence falls short. Take those same settings to the Alps in nice weather and you're leaving a lot of horsepower on the table and not using to it's full advantage. Do you find yourself wondering if you could add a bit of eye candy?? I know I and many friends do every day. And that's the reason why tools like this exist. So you can be assured you're getting the best performance and/or visuals based on your preference.... no matter where you are. Heavy Rain storm? No problem. Joined a group flight with 30 other planes? Got it covered. :) Myself, I'm very susceptible to low frame-rates, so I set mine to give me blistering FPS numbers in VR. My flying buddy would rather have amazing visuals and happily runs at 10 FPS below me. We use the same tool, different settings, and we are both blissfully happy.
@@somewhereelsestudio6342 Very good point. The feeling of having extra grunt unused can be somewhat annoying sometimes. I am one of those who accepted high 20s in the G2, so for me to be satisfied probably takes less than it does for you. But the settings I use now pretty much allow me to fly a fighter between the skyscrapers in NY with all high/ultra, even clouds. But I know for a fact that I'm missing out on even greater results when in less demanding scenarios. I',m using the Crystal, so that makes up for a lot for it regardless. The clarity is amazing. I will definitely try the software out tomorrow 👍
@@poolhallshark re: "The feeling of having extra grunt unused can be somewhat annoying sometimes." If you had asked me about this in the early days of MSFS2020, I would have denied it. But after tweaking on settings for over 3 years, I suppose the "quest for the perfect setup" is now taking over. It has become a lifestyle.
Is there an "official" support channel for the app? I installed per the instructions (msfs, smoothflight, mobiconnect, net7.0 runtime, no AWS enabled, etc.). Smoothflight reports "Sim Running?" in green text, however "Connected? and "Controllable?" are in red text - and the program has no affect on my TOD or LOD or frame rate. Would really like to get this working :) .
When I try to download this I don't seem to be able to find the app in Google drive. I just get Mobi Connect and a text file for SmoothFlight change log. Can anyone help? Sorry if I'm being dumb
Hey I noticed your terrain pre-cache is set to "high". What are your thoughts on this instead of the "Ultra" setting? I have found the Ultra helps a lot with the terrain suddenly morphing as you approach, and I haven't seen any hit to FPS or stutter.
yes i would like to see a further in depth tutorial, but please enable the ingame FPS display to show the framerate and info whats still limiting the performance. thanks
So Steve thanks again for a very informative video. Quick question, for us Pimax Crystal users who lock the framerate to 1/2, do you still advise doing that when running Smooth Flight? Also can you share your exact Smooth Flight settings? Thanks!
I know I'm not Steve, but locking the frame rate at half native resolution doesn't give Smooth Flight any information to work with. So no, Smooth Flight is designed to run with motion reprojection or ASW turned off. The good news though is that the resulting smoothness can be even better than what you get with a locked frame rate.... Between that and the fact that you have eliminated all of the ASW artifacts, you might just like it better.
I'm still not Steve, and I do hope he replies still but.... if your computer can consistently give you 45 FPS so that lock mode works, then I would set it for 40 in SF. And then I would set the dead zone to three or four, and I would go for a flight. At some point in the future you can go back into settings and turn down your upper limits for the lods to get a higher frame rate..... but for your first test flight you can certainly start with those two settings. This assumes of course that you have shut off ASW or lock mode and are allowing the Sim to report the actual FPS it's able to get
How do I get the LOD settings and such back that I had before trying the app? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the app modifies settings somewhere in the sim's files and because of that, even deleting the app doesn't get the default settings back. I really want to go back to how my MSFS was before trying the app, for reference. Am I supposed to reinstall the sim just to get it working the way it used to?
Re-install? That's a bit overly dramatic. The only things that are changed are your Terrain LOD and Object LOD. And it doesn't change it in the files. It only changes the copy of the program while it's in memory and running on your PC. You can easily go back into your settings menu and drag the slider to the desired value. That's the extent of what is changed. I'll make sure this is implemented for my next update. In the meantime, please accept my apology for not including it in this admittedly early access release.
Wow a 3rd utility now, thanks Steve! I use first one: DynamicLOD for VR and works with Fixed FPS play. For me, that's at 30 FPS with MR. First time in years getting this sim to be butter smooth with almost zero micro-stutters; what an awesome feeling while flying now!!! (Cant quite get to 45 consistently in my new rig because of the 3080Ti.) Based on your suggestion, I will try this and see if I can disable Motion Reprojection now at 30 FPS. Thanks again:)
In this current iteration, the SmoothFlight tool is designed to work without motion reprojection only. With ASW or MR, the sim continually reports that it is always at half-native-framerate. So without accurate FPS data coming from the sim, SmoothFlight cannot accurately assist.
So you are auto-varying 3 settings based on the UI window= TLOD, OLOD and RA. What is RA? By the way too; I don't know why on my PC but the utility was accurately picking up the correct Motion Reprojection FPS and was adjusting the 3 variable settings as I flew just fine. So also tried in non MR as well, was auto-correcting in the same fashion in both modes just fine.@@somewhereelsestudio6342
@@MrEDETGood question. Because of the way that all reprojection technologies work, I think they'll all be problematic. Because my experience with them is that they either will report 45 FPS or 90. (assuming this is on a headset that's set to 90hz refresh) . The most important part of this is that no matter which one they report, it will never change. And watching that number change is how SmoothFlight works. So if you MUST use reprojection, then maybe a different solution is better for you. But in my testing, as long as I can set the minimum FPS to 38 or higher, I can have a successful result. YMMV of course... and that's why we pre-release these types of tools so we can get a better handle on what works (hopefully the vast majority of it) and what doesn't.
Great solutions for getting More FPS and less stutters, but Microsoft shame that your Engine is so bad that we need all those Addons, hopefully MFS 2024 will be much better for VR performance
It would have been so much easier if they had just implemented it inside the box. It's quite a trick to get this to work using an outside application. Imagine how slick it would be if it was embedded??
So is this to be used in conjunction with that other auto fps app? Can they work together? Or just one or the other? Are you using DLSS frame generation? Does it work with frame gen? Also, I have not installed and setup MSFS along with my Quest3 yet. Do I need to dial in MSFS settings first without VR, and then with VR, and THEN use one of these programs or will these just work instantly as a "set and forget" kind of thing? (RTX3080).
Nope, they cannot work together. Even though the internal processes are unique, they both modify the exact same parameters in the sim...and as such will just fight against each other with unpredictable results. Umm.. not sure how to answer the next question as DLSS is an upscaling technology and frame generation is another thing entirely. But I think the best way to answer this is that it works just fine with upscaling. It does not work with frame generation... unless the frame generation reports a useful FPS. All of the frame Gen tech I've tried just reports a static number (either half-rate or full rate) and therefore is useless. But if your computer can play the game at half-native rate (36/40/45), just turn it off and see what it looks like. This has the uncanny capability of making 45 FPS look much smoother than the raw numbers indicate.
@@somewhereelsestudio6342 It seems to interfere with the Turbo mode in the XR Toolkit, whereas sometimes I can see the effects of turbo mode fps increase (in the 60's) for a time and then it drops down to half refresh at 36 for awhile...can you verify if this is normal behavior or not?...Not sure if i should use this with the XR toolkit currently. Also I have no understanding of how to get the UI visible in the cockpit when in VR...any idea? Thank you for this btw, I may be able to come back to msfs because of this!!
So question you only startup this app before the sim only for VR? That will effect both VR and PC graphics settings? And can you please fly any airliner instead of GA for ones so we can see the performance more?😊 Thanks
There is a checkbox on the left side of the screen for VR. Uncheck that box, and it will change the settings in 2-D mode. It does not have to be started before the sim. You can indeed launch the sim first, fly around for an hour, and then launch it. It doesn't really care. The only limitation is a timer that waits for about 30 seconds to see if it can find MSFS running. So I generally just wait until I have the sim up and running first.
Sorry if I missed this, I went through all the posts. Can I adjust Smoothflight settings on the fly or must I stop/restart VR or even restart the sim itself?
No need to pause, changes can be made on the fly. The trick is getting to where you can interract with the app while in VR. I manage this by bringing the app into the VR world, and then use the standard Alt-Tab windows shortcut keystroke to bring the app into focus... or some would call it the foreground app. I know this is very klunky, and hopefully a better way will present itself. But functionally there is no reason to pause.
Some payware airports which are using custom ground textures provide very very ugly looking textures when setting TLOD to 50 or lower. Even below your airplane position. So it's not always the best way to use low TLOD
Couldn't agree more. That's why I have included the ability to set a custom lower limit for TLOD (and OLOD). Having a low limit set to 10 can be really ugly, but when you fly like I do, sometimes you need it to be a bit heavy handed to get you back to a flyable framerate. I like to fly faster than mach 1 downtown Manhattan. Not many do. On the other hand, I know many of you are more "polite" and like to follow procedures and treat the sim like an actual "Simulator". And so you are probably going to be happier setting the low limit to something that looks a bit better. I know there are already 20 or so questions asking "What are the proper settings?" Well, if there was such a thing as a "proper setting" then I wouldn't have spent the time making these things adjustable. For those who still feel like I owe them a preset ;) Try this: * Set the Upper maximum for TLOD to 100 (or to whatever you had it set to before you tried SmoothFLight) * Set the Upper maximum for OLOD to 100, (or whatever you would set it to manually as above) * Set the desired FPS to something around 5 FPS lower than what you think your video card can do on average... Now Go Fly. Don't spend all day in a menu. This is supposed to stop that. Remember that SmoothFlight isn't going to give you more power. Its job is to turn down some settings when you get into a difficult area, and then them back up when you return to an "easy" area. The "goal" if there is such a thing, is to set your upper maximum (TLOD especially) so that you can reach it. Once reached, SmoothFLight will turn all the rest of the extra horsepower into higher FPS. It's not uncommon for me to have a minimum FPS set to 40, the LOD's are maxed out and the sim is running at 70+ FPS. It sounds lot more simple than it really is. What you get as a benefit is: * less stuttering because your computer now has a bit of headroom to play with. * you might discover the mouse even seems a bit more responsive as you try to adjust things on your dash (because your computer has more headroom now)... * Lower temperatures on your video card (it's not being pushed to 100%) ...and the list goes on
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Do you guys have the old saying: "Gotta eat a little crow"? It's classically used when you really screw up and you have to apologize. Sometimes you gotta apologize to a lot of people. I find myself in that un-desirable position today.
I've been very vocal (and adamant) that I based my SmoothFlight tool on the original code base that Muumimorko and Fragtality made. To be very quick about it... I was wrong. I thought I was being careful to only use from that code base until I had explicit permission to use anything from ResetXPDR. But I screwed up and had some cross-pollination. I could come up with lots of reasons how or why that happened ... but let's cut to the chase. I screwed up - and I screwed up with proof right in my code. I'd make a lousy criminal. Freakin' brilliant. It's like committing a crime and leaving your business card at the scene with a blood sample.
So it's no wonder that ResetXPDR was upset with me. And I was clueless. Because... as of about an hour ago, I still thought I hadn't used his code. But we had a chat, and there it is. I have to admit that it really makes me look like a scumbag. I humbly ask for forgiveness. I have broken a trust.
It's also my first red flag that I might have cognitive decline - so that's a wonderful diagnosis... old age sux but that's a story for another time.
At any rate, I need to amend my earlier statements: I have 3 people to thank for my ability to have an idea like this... build the mod, and then share it with you guys. Muumimorko, Fragtality and ResetXPDR. As a famous guy once said: "We stand on the shoulders of Giants"
Thanks for this posting, it clarify the situation. I would be nice that you also describe how you software do better that the 2 others. How do you differentiate?
Thank you for owing up to this, and publicly too. It takes real guts to do that. In response, I am completely satisfied that it was inadvertent and I forgive you. If I can do that being the one most affected, I hope that others can too and continue to use and support your app into the future.
It would make a lot of sense to consolidate this FPS project into one sensible project,
It’s messy having two different projects…
@@eaglefirestudioI'm hoping that in the future, the differences in our 2 approaches will begin to separate us a bit more. Now that we have a more open line of communication, I expect a bit more of a difference to emerge. Also, I've already been in contact with 2 people that tell me my version doesn't do anything for them..and I find it's refreshing to be able to point them to ResetXPDR's version as an alternative.
I could agree with the messy comment, except that they both use the exact same "mobiflight-event-module" that goes in the Community folder, so running comparisons with them couldn't be easier. It's kind of the opposite of messy.
@somewhereelsestudio6342 While I was quick to criticise you yesterday, I applaud you for coming back publicly and apologising....well done! After thinking about it more, I believe the VR Flight Sim Guy jumped the gun a bit and could have maybe have done a tad of research before posting....he did that once before with an initial Windows11 and G2 being wiped out video he posted then retracted when he realised he had created unfounded panic....anyway, alls well that ends well eh?
@VRFlightSimGuy mentioned something during his review that I feel I should address: The "Landing Mode" setting caused a quick stutter when he crossed the threshold. and that's due to an intentional decision. If the difference between your current graphics settings and the ones you have selected in the "Landing Mode" are too much, then yes, you will see the change happen. That's because "Landing Mode" is designed to be a "safe space" where no automatic adjustments are allowed. A "Sterile cockpit" if you will...
So I give you 2 choices.
1. Force those settings at the altitude threshold (that you can set as high as 500 ft above the runway). Because one quick quarter-second stutter and then butter-smooth for the rest of the landing is better than a slide-show that lasts all the way down.
2. Or...use the "Freeze" option. Freeze will just stop updating graphics as you cross the threshold. The settings might still be too high, but at least you have a choice of how to handle it.
On the other hand, the issue that he saw during landing wouldn't have been a problem if he was following a normal glide path, as that would have given the SmoothFlight tool enough time to invisibly adjust the graphic quality on the way. That being said, if this continues to be an issue then I'll be writing a new algorithm for approaches. This is most assuredly a work in progress. The ability to do this kind of a mod has only recently been available. So (as my good friend continues to say: "More to come" on this subject)
Outstanding effort, I’ve tried running both of the apps together, it seemed to work ok, good fps. I’ll give this app a good test tomorrow at some point.
@@goochygoochoutdoors.1913Both together? I hate to break it to you, but you're not actually testing what you think you're testing.
@@goochygoochoutdoors.1913 Definitely don't do this. Both programs will be competing to modify the variables that represent the TLOD and OLOD. One of the other, not both!
Why no admission that you just piggy backed onto the original developers app and the major improvement that Reset XPDR published a few days before you released this...not good to imply its all your work, you should definitely give credit to the 2 guys who were there before you
@@GunPilotI never implied that it was *all* my work. And I have given credit to the 2 guys before me. But you're making accusations you know nothing about. Those 2 guys are Muumimorko and Fragality. With the exception of their code that talks to and from MSFS, this program *is* all mine. My design... my code.
Both ResetXPDR and I branched off the same code that was built by Muumimorko (the MobiConnect part) and Fragality (the rest of the proof of concept code known as DynamicLOD) after both of them had abandoned the project and announced there would be no further updates. It was at that point that both of us each created a new fork and began to work on our own ideas. (By the way, I originally asked ResetXPDR to collaborate on the project, but he declined. ) After a short discussion, we agreed that our different approaches were unique enough that it would be difficult to collaborate. At the time, ResetXPDR's version was nearly identical to the latest version of the Fragality code... in that it was all based on AGL with a couple of spreadsheets and hard coded AGL = LOD pairings.
The version of the original DynamicLOD that I used as a base for the communication with between the tool and MSFS has none of ResetXPDR's code in in it. So yes, I'm using Muumimorko's very slick communication engine to talk to MSFS. The majority of the remainder of the code I'm assuming belongs to Fragality - and it is pages (and pages) of code to manage the spreadsheets that correlate AGL to LOD settings. And since I was not about to base my idea on AGL, that was entirely discarded.
But to claim I piggy-backed off of Reset's code? That has no basis in reality.. You must think I saw Reset's autoFPS tool and then built (and tested) mine in 4 days??? I'm flattered that you think I'm that fast, but no. This took time. It's a design I've had ever since MSFS came out with VR support three and a half years ago. Without Muumimorko's amazing Memory Injection code, it wasn't possible until just recently.
While we're on the subject, the original design for this came from a title that Papyrus came out with in 1995 (I think) called Indy Car Racing 2, that would change the number of cars you could see based on FPS. Back then getting 12-14 FPS was considered decent performance.
Absolutely would love a more in-depth look at this, when you have the opportunity. Thanks for sharing!
You wait 4 years for a bus... then 3 come along all at once
😂😂
Exactly my thoughts!
3?
What’s the third one? I’ve got the autoFPS, what else is there?
@@JanStrojil DynamicLOD Tool
Very much thank you. Excellent job and I would really enjoy seeing an review of both 'AutoFPS' and 'SmoothFlight'. 👍
Thanks Steve. Great news with these new fps optimisers! Would love a settings guide when you are able to.
They're coming thick and fast now mate, thanks for the support :)
Darren; the short answer is this:
You should know 3 things about your current settings. Your current Terrain LOD, Object LOD, and what FPS you normally hit with those settings.
1. Set the FPS to a value your video card can hit. It won't do you much good if you set it so high that the SmoothFlight tool continually tries to lower your graphics settings to get you above that FPS threshold. That would look ugly. This doesn't give your computer more power. It does however very intelligently adjust your settings to make the best use of what you have.... all without cooking your video card. (check your video card temperature while this is running - you'll be surprised)
2. In the "Limits" section, set the maximum values to roughly the same as what you now use in normal MSFS flight. In other words, DON"T set these to maximum. This is important, unless all you want is the best visuals at all costs.
Note: Once SmoothFlight has found how far it can push the TLOD and OLOD settings without your FPS dropping below your FPS threshold... it will have found the optimum settings for that moment in time. The good news is, it's going to keep double-checking to make sure you are *still* using the optimal settings during your entire flight... so yes, you can go from flying over the ocean to flying low over Lower Manhattan with 3,000 x 3000 supersampling in VR and this beast will auto-compensate and keep you smooth. When you leave the city, the higher graphics come back and you never leave too much power on the table.
3. If you have the maximum values set low enough, and SmoothFlight was able to reach those maximums without dropping below the minimum threshold, the remaining power / headroom is not wasted. It will be converted back into higher FPS. It's not uncommon for me to have my minimum set to 40 FPS, TLOD set to 125 (for scenery out as far as I can see anyway), OLOD set to 85 (because if I miss a baggage cart at the airport, I really don't care) and actual FPS is in the 70's. In VR. Don't be suckered into setting a high FPS number. This number won't limit your FPS. It only sets a threshold by which lots of calculations start happening.
@@somewhereelsestudio6342
Excellent! Thanks for this explanation!
@@somewhereelsestudio6342What do you recommend for landing settings? Seeing what Steve set for his landing settings seems a bit low no? Also...for alitude...if I set it to 33 does that mean 3,300 feet is the altitude at which the settings lock in for landing?
@@JM1701ABCDAs mentioned elsewhere, you can disregard the "Landing Mode" and just let it adjust based on performance. but for those who really love tweaking and want a bit more control for landings, the option is there.
What I would really love to see is something that stops MSFS spontaneously adjusting the terrain mesh when close up to mountains - as you are here. There's hardly ever improved visual fidelity when that happens, but it is a total immersion breaker in VR, at least when you're ridge soaring.
Totally agree 💯
100% agree with you @bulversteher. As a creator of some race tracks for MSFS, I find it insane that Asobo can get the X-Y coordinates of those mountain peaks correct from 20 miles away, but is continually adjusting the elevation right up until you get within arms reach. but it's the limitations of the current sim ...and we all deal with them.
The only thing you can do to help alleviate that is to set your TLOD setting higher. This will cause the levels of detail to be drawn at a greater distance. (I was able to gather that Asobo has 14 different LOD levels for terrain)
But as we all know, if you set that too high, it gets like a slide-show and that's another immersion breaker.
Totally agree. In VR you really notice these changes much more than on a regular monitor.
I think with 2024 they've all but given up on 2020. I have high hopes for the new version built from the ground up with the lessons learned. I think we'll come to view 2020 as a paid beta, with 2024 hopefully being absolutely amazing 🙏Shame we have to pay twice, but worth every penny
@MichaelBarry-gz9xl "From the ground up," now where have we heard of that phrase before? 😂
Would love to see more in dept settings video
Yes, Yes, Yes... An explanation of each setting, what it attempts to accomplish, and what reasonable values might be considered for low-end, mid-range, and high-end graphics cards would be helpful. I've been playing with AutoFPS for a few days now with decent results. Now spending time with this new app. Having this capability embedded in the sim would be awesome but KUDOS to the persistence of the author. I will definitely contribute some $$.
I would really appreciate a head-to-head or comparison between this and AutoFPS. I assume you can’t run both at the same time, so basically which one is ‘better’ for general uses. Since they both seem brilliant, it’s hard to know which one to go for
Excellent video, a walkthrough setup would be great.
Thanks so much! This app is amazing. I don't use VR but got only ~20-25 FPS (3080/i5 11400) fsr frame gen pushed it to 40 but still micro stutters, now im at around 70, no stutters at all. Just Amazing.
This works totally fantastic. Go buy the dev a coffee if you use this, he deserves it.
Couldn't agree more!
Are you using them together? What is the difference between them? Hope to see some test.
Auto fps didn't stop my big fps fluctuations, but thanks for sharing this, I will definitely be trying this out.
Unfortunately it didn't work for me.
Thanks for the update mate, very keen to see your more in depth settings review on this and trying it out myself :)
Off topic I know, but I would really love to know your thoughts of your motion rig having used it for some time. The good but also limitations.
Video coming very soon!
Incredible.. Without tweaking the standard settings it made a huge difference in stutter. Not flown it yet but sitting on the tarmac was far better than ever. 3080 Graphics card, Quest 3 VR. First impressions were excellent.
Thank you. Trying this now. Would love to see an in-depth settings guide.
Thanks Steve, will definitely give both a try. Keep em coming!
Thanks for the update. Can you make a video showing us how to set it up please Cheers.
Great video Steve, I also would like a comparison between auto fps and smooth flight with a settings guide. It’s amazing we have these tools to improve our VR.
Would love a deeper dive into Smooth Flight.
it's good. Still seeing micro stutters at edge of performance limits but the frame pacing seems much better. Low Flying and looking down the Wing cord, you get a smoother experience.
100%
@@VRFlightSimGuy ruclips.net/video/s8TOeU2vEiw/видео.htmlsi=CM0EbO797QkNIhuf
Thank you very much for the tutorial, this addon also works for those of us who play VR
Yes please. Love some setting help for this with a 4090.
I love AutoFPS and gave this a try. Both are identical apart from AutoFPS using cloud detail change when needed to maintain FPS. Both great programs and Asobo need to take note !
AFAIK The reason you want 45 fps (half of 90) is for the motion re-projection, consistent interpolated artificial frames. Then MSFS added a triple option so 30/90 IIRC, been a while for me.
See vid here from a year ago etc for more details.
But this is no sense because Frame generation brake vsync? No?
Thank you for keeping us so informed. Does this one also adjust the clouds like the other one does? And also are you able to minimize so you don't see it in your screen all the time? Thank you
Clouds are not yet implemented. Changing cloud detail is VERY noticeable and was therefore not included ... but the more I read about cloud manipulation, the more I'm tempted to add it. I did some performance testing myself with cloud adjustments, and found the results to be rather un-impressive. That might have to do with the fact that I'm using a 4090 card but I saw no more than one FPS difference between Low detailed clouds and Ultra. Yet I read how everyone else thinks that clouds are "da bomb". So back to the test bench for me. Still, some rather impressive results are possible without such visually obvious changes. And I value invisible mods more than the things that reduce immersion.
Yes, this can be minimized... or better yet, the "secret" mini-mode. check the upper left hand corner of the app window. There's a tiny silver button up there that will shrink the app to post-it note size. You can "paste" that anywhere in the cockpit in VR - totally out of the way, but still able to read how it's doing.
Hey i use quest 3 for my vr. Not sure how to make it show up when im flying so i can tweak it. Any help would be appreciated please. Thank you.
Interesting video. My only question is will these tools work with any gaming - not just flight games?
I do SIM racing and other VR sports games and with the Quest 3 now.
Looks like these are specific to Flight Sim games.
Hi Steve. Thank you for always bringing the VR community cutting edge info. As a big fan of Almalence( i know you don’t care much for it) have you tried running this app with that mod? Ty in advance
My pleasure Kam :) Funny enough, I'm about to try it!
Stuttering has ruined MSFS VR for me so tried both of these. They both report a frame rate of around 40-60 (target 32), don't apply much lowering of details, and the stutter is still wild.
Can you have a high frame rate and stutter?
Yes. Higher FPS is not always good for VR. Try and match half of your refresh rate
I’m so out of the loop that I’m so happy you keep me / us In the loop. I’ll have to give this a try but I’m happy I get 25fps so I’ll try 30? and see what performance gain I get at what noticeable details loss. Thanks for showing
It will definitely help you out Sven, especially since the software tries to better match frame timing at lower FPS values.
I am going to try this, I don't know if this will help but I notice that 99% of my stutters in VR come from when I am flying over add on scenery created by users. I feel like a lot of the time the scenery is just not optimized and while it may work OK in 2D mode it is a no go for VR. For example, I had Boston add on scenery from enjoy it fly installed. In 2D it is great but in VR I was getting MASSIVE stutters. I deleted it and added the Boston Scenery from the Modern US Cities add on scenery from the Markey place and just like that 99% of the stutters were gone. I believe we could be looking at a data throughput bottleneck where the sim is trying to download too much data and inject it into the sim and it just can't in real time. That is my working theory at least lol.
Have you tried turning AMD FX Sharpening down? I run mine at zero and I get a much clearer image in VR, especially in the cockpit looking at the instruments.
Thankyou for the tip, it used to be the other way around. I'll give this a try now 👍
Please, please explain how to get it working! :)
Great work, keep on rocking! Your work is very much appreciated! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thankyou so much!
Thanks so much for sharing, exciting stuff! So do you turn off ASW / Space warping when you using Smooth Flight? If all this add-on does it adjust the TLOD and OLOD then why cant it work with ASW do you suppose? About to test this and will certainly make a donation, what a legend @Michael Manthei
The majority of questions seem to be focused around some type of setup guide, so would it be a benefit if I did a Twitch stream and went through that? I'm not much on making RUclips videos but a stream would allow for some interaction.... a question and answer session type of thing.
Great idea 😃
@@VRFlightSimGuyI guess the trick is to find a good time. With users all over the planet, when would be the best time to do this? I suppose the VOD will be around for viewing later, but getting in on the active questions would be beneficial. Anyone have ideas?
Hey Steve. This looks really interesting. I can’t wait for the day we get smooth 90fps with high fidelity visuals in vr
I had over 80 this morning with TLOD at 150, 30% supersampling (2500x2100) into a Quest 3 this morning. So we're close. :)
@@somewhereelsestudio6342which HW do you use? And much more interesting what linking SW do you use? I got a quest 2 and have horrible stutters likely due to linking SW
@@Alexander-hk5keYou lost me. I don't know what HW is ... or what linking SW is.
@@Alexander-hk5ke I replied to this hours ago but it's not showing up. I don't know what you mean by HW and linking SW. Please explain. Could you be referring to HardWare and SoftWare? I have a Quest 3 and use the link cable. If you mean something different.. I'll try to answer once I know what HW and SW mean.
Also, It's important to realize that stutters are generated by lots of different things. .. and at no time have I ever claimed that this eliminates stuttering. It's true that almost everyone who uses it (and has reviewed it) reports a dramatic decrease in stutters, but in reality, there are causes for stutters that I have no control over. It's designed to automatically adjust graphics within the limitations of your hardware.
So the bottom line is: If you set unreasonable expectations of a tool like this, it's going to disappoint ya. :) For instance if you never got more than 30 FPS on medium settings, but you installed SmoothFlight and cranked up your options to "ultra" and then demanded 65 FPS, it's going to get ugly. That's an extreme example, but I want to reiterate that the best setup advice I can give is this: Leave your system options alone and setting a reasonable FPS that your system can hit - - and you'll probably be in the ballpark.
Awesome thanks Steve!
Hey Jose, I hope you are well :)
please settings guide. do we need both?
More in depth please. Sounds fantastic. Problem with Auto fps is, that it is not aware where and what you fly. Takeoff in the alps with TLOD 50 and flying in mountain regions with GA or helicopter is a difficult to handle usecase
With AutoFPS, you can quickly change your TLOD Min to be higher and even a higher Alt TLOD Base if you want for such flights.
Cheers for video mate 👍
the last FPS tool would start but would read Not compatible with this version of MSFT flight sim and go into read mode only. Maybe this one will work.
Great video and potentially very useful tool. Would you be able to make another video of how to set this software, please? Which setting are more important, which are less and so on. Thanks
Hope he has plans to develop this for DCS
Nice job on the approach in Innsbruck!
As a pilot, I can't pass by without mentioning, landing must be done from the opposite side. Noise amendment procedures 🙄
Keep up the great work! ✈👏
Thanks for the tips! ❤️😁
Great info and ap! I think I know the answer but wondering if I should still use OpenXR together with Smooth Flight? Smooth Flight is showing 9FPS on my low spec system but seems like it might be getting 3x.
Thanks for sharing this with all of us. I followed all the instructions for installing Smooth Flight but the app only shows "sim running" but not "Connected" or "Controllable". Please do an installation video for Smooth Flight including all the steps necessary. If you have any specific suggestions for me, please advise. And thanks again for all the useful flight sim video topics that you present.
Same here!
I can't imagine an installation video would be necessary. You should put the "mobiflight-event-module" in your Community folder. MSFS must be rebooted after this step. If this is not done, you will see the symptoms you describe. Otherwise I've not seen that issue.
Still doesn't work. And what about in game settings? Do we leave those alone, at whatever we had? There needs to be far more instruction here.
@@somewhereelsestudio6342
I did what you suggested and I am still getting the same results as before. Once more people try this product you may find that there are other issues that need to be addressed. If there is anything else you can suggest to troubleshoot the problem, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
@@somewhereelsestudio6342
Well, my problem was an installation issue. I resolved it by downloading and installing AutoFPS. The install program of that product automatically checks for and installs the latest versions of the other utilities needed. It It determined that the Mobi module (which I DLd from the Smooth Flight page link) was out of date. It installed an updated version and now Smooth Flight runs as expected.
Auto FPS was working amazing although i surprisingly had stuttering on my last use of it with a glider in the Alps??? Ill give this a try and look forward to any settings advice you can give?
My best advice would be to set some reasonable limits. The worst thing you can do is set FPS to 90 and TLOD maximum to 400. This will NOT give your video card superpowers and magically give you the ability to run everything on Ultra.
So, try this as a starting point. Look at what you currently have your Terrain LOD and Object LOD set to. Set the TLOD max limit and OLOD Max limit to the same numbers. Then set FPS to a value that's a bit lower than what you can normally hit. Set Deadzone to 3 or 4 FPS higher than FPS minimum. This will give you a comfortable zone where no changes are necessary. Then go fly. You should have some room to auto-adjust to varying conditions whether that's higher or lower.
Edit for clarification: Some are still confused to the real function of the FPS setting. It does not limit your FPS. It''s merely a directive to SmoothFlight that says: "Please don't let FPS fall below THIS". It's very common for me to have my FPS set to 40 and my actual FPS to be fluctuating between 70 and 80. This is where SmoothFlight really shines. Sometimes I'll just head for a large city and dial up a blizzard to watch SmoothFlight handle it. I can hear it faintly say: "Is that all you got? "
Thanks for another great video. So do you recommend using this AND the auto FPS app?
Use only one. Try them both :)
thanks. Appreciated :)
@@VRFlightSimGuy
Hi, Tried this and it only says "Sim running" Connected and Controllable still red. So seems to be doing nothing. Not sure how to get it running properly.
Do the same clip over London and the Heathrow payware airport. Totally different and imo the additional tools don’t help anything, raw Nvidia power does.
For AutoFPS on a 2080TI is best with 30 cap Repro in OpenXR Toolkit.
For my other 3080 is good with 45 Repro.
With this it may still need Repro all the same. Only thing is Repro will make calcs slower is all. Would not like an abrupt change. AutoFPS may suffice.
Give it a try. It costs nothing. And you might find that the equally-spaced frames are actually smoother looking than what you get with motion reprojection technologies.... so it's worth a shot.
I think its just a coincidence and something else is at play, but after using auto fps, my pimax vr fps has dropped to 19 (smart smoothing), i still need to try to figure out why though. I did the 'uninstall' on autofps and the dynamiclod one too, but something is now amiss.
I normally limit my frame rate to 40 fps in OpenXR Toolkit. Should I no longer do that if using this App? Also, what is RA under the OLOD on the FPS page of the APP?
You've discovered something beautiful again :)
I do try :D
@@VRFlightSimGuy Good evening, I just tried this application in VR mode and for me it changes absolutely nothing, I don't see any difference in terms of increase in fps!!!
Reminds me of the days when OpenXR Toolkit came out, and suddenly everything opened up
msfs/sim rig dof h3 pimax crystal and all the other open xr pimax xr opencomposite.. to open when I want to start it. thank god for batch files to open them all at once.. another one added to the queue.
Will check this out tonight. I do find when there’s lots of other aircraft around Valley my quest 3 frame rate drops lots. I was getting 30fps last night then when I came into land I was getting 8fps. Bloody scary. You have no real idea when you have actually touched down at 8fps. lol. So any software that can help will be good.
Frame rate and stuttering has never been an issue even with my old 2070 super. The issue is clarity, definition and blurriness. All things that still exist in VR even with my new 4070ti.
Thanks for this video. Will try it asap. Cheers, Ron :))
Great find, looks awesome. I'll start messing around with it, but please provide some settings stats, will be really useful.
Thanks for the info Steve. Is there a way to open the Smooth Flight window while in VR? (Quest 3)
It's awfully kludgy - as I don't know how to get a user interface to show up on the in-game ribbon menu... but here's how I've been doing it:
First I get all my windows set up and the in-game windows placed where I want them. I don't know how everyone else does it, but I guess we all end up in the same place. But basically, do your normal method to get the SmoothFlight window into the VR space with you.
Just before you launch VR, Alt-Tab to the SmoothFlight app by holding the Alt button down and tap Tab until the app is highlighted: then release Alt key. Then one more Alt-tab to go back to MSFS . Because of the default way Microsoft windows works (and has since W95) your most recent 2 windows will always be the default windows to focus.
While in VR, you can alt-tab again and it will bring the SmoothFlight app into focus. Alt-tab again to go back to MSFS. I mapped alt-tab to a button on my StreamDeck so I don't have to fumble around to find the keyboard in VR.
So yea, it's a bit of a kludgy workaround for now. But it lets me make changes while flying without leaving VR.
To be fair though, the main focus of SmoothFlight is that you find your settings and then leave it alone. So hopefully you'll adopt that workflow soon and this will be a non-issue.
@somewhereelsestudio6342
Cool. I will give it a try.
To be honest, I was hoping you had some clever way to bring Windows apps into VR. 🙂
I wrote an in-game popup for my app (rsFirstOfficer) but it seems to cause stutters so I don't promote that feature.
Thanks for all your efforts on this handy tool.
Tried this after viewing vid. I wouldn't say game changer, but it seems to help somewhat, worth trying and tinkering with. I'm going to try throwing some real fps killer sceneries at it and see how it does. The concept is great, everyone should try it.
Heathrow airport and NYC
Wow. Sounds amazing, Steve. I will try this, even though I'm very close to 100% stutter free as is, running the 4090 at half, like yourself. A very clever piece of software, and I will definitely donate 🙂 Have a great week, buddy. Love from Norway ♥♥♥♥♥
Thanks to continued updates and optimizations from Asobo, it's true that many of us can run stutter free. However, the settings you use to get stutter free are truthfully only good when flying in the same kind of environment that you created them in. Take those settings to one of the major cities (NYC, Tokyo, Paris, London, etc) and your hard-coded stutter-free existence falls short. Take those same settings to the Alps in nice weather and you're leaving a lot of horsepower on the table and not using to it's full advantage. Do you find yourself wondering if you could add a bit of eye candy?? I know I and many friends do every day.
And that's the reason why tools like this exist. So you can be assured you're getting the best performance and/or visuals based on your preference.... no matter where you are. Heavy Rain storm? No problem. Joined a group flight with 30 other planes? Got it covered. :) Myself, I'm very susceptible to low frame-rates, so I set mine to give me blistering FPS numbers in VR. My flying buddy would rather have amazing visuals and happily runs at 10 FPS below me. We use the same tool, different settings, and we are both blissfully happy.
@@somewhereelsestudio6342 Very good point. The feeling of having extra grunt unused can be somewhat annoying sometimes. I am one of those who accepted high 20s in the G2, so for me to be satisfied probably takes less than it does for you. But the settings I use now pretty much allow me to fly a fighter between the skyscrapers in NY with all high/ultra, even clouds. But I know for a fact that I'm missing out on even greater results when in less demanding scenarios. I',m using the Crystal, so that makes up for a lot for it regardless. The clarity is amazing. I will definitely try the software out tomorrow 👍
@@poolhallshark re: "The feeling of having extra grunt unused can be somewhat annoying sometimes." If you had asked me about this in the early days of MSFS2020, I would have denied it. But after tweaking on settings for over 3 years, I suppose the "quest for the perfect setup" is now taking over. It has become a lifestyle.
@@somewhereelsestudio6342 Indeed 😅
Need something like this in DCS
Can't find the exe file to run the program :(, only plugin in the zip file.
Is there an "official" support channel for the app? I installed per the instructions (msfs, smoothflight, mobiconnect, net7.0 runtime, no AWS enabled, etc.). Smoothflight reports "Sim Running?" in green text, however "Connected? and "Controllable?" are in red text - and the program has no affect on my TOD or LOD or frame rate. Would really like to get this working :) .
Wow I just installed Auto FPS when I went to sleep and now there's this smooth motion when I woke up😊
When I try to download this I don't seem to be able to find the app in Google drive. I just get Mobi Connect and a text file for SmoothFlight change log. Can anyone help? Sorry if I'm being dumb
Have it installed, as per instructions.
But how do I get to see the smooth fight menu in VR in my Aero?
Hey I noticed your terrain pre-cache is set to "high". What are your thoughts on this instead of the "Ultra" setting? I have found the Ultra helps a lot with the terrain suddenly morphing as you approach, and I haven't seen any hit to FPS or stutter.
It used to make a difference to performance, but that was pre SU13 - So I'll try it on ultra many thanks.
where can I download the MeeshTrax: SmoothFlight software?
The link you provided does not have the MeeshTrax: SmoothFlight software.
yes i would like to see a further in depth tutorial, but please enable the ingame FPS display to show the framerate and info whats still limiting the performance. thanks
Hi thanks, I usually would be there is currently a bug in SU15 whereas enabling the FPS counter causes stutters. How ironic.
@@VRFlightSimGuyironic. maybe the frametime display within MSI afterburner works as a workaround.
@@VRFlightSimGuyI'm shaking my head at that one.
How can I open the MobiFlightWasmModule.wasm file. I did not find any possibility to open it.
Thanks Steve, I aways enjoy your videos. Would this also work for AMD video cards?
Absolutely! 😁
So Steve thanks again for a very informative video. Quick question, for us Pimax Crystal users who lock the framerate to 1/2, do you still advise doing that when running Smooth Flight? Also can you share your exact Smooth Flight settings? Thanks!
I know I'm not Steve, but locking the frame rate at half native resolution doesn't give Smooth Flight any information to work with. So no, Smooth Flight is designed to run with motion reprojection or ASW turned off. The good news though is that the resulting smoothness can be even better than what you get with a locked frame rate.... Between that and the fact that you have eliminated all of the ASW artifacts, you might just like it better.
I'm still not Steve, and I do hope he replies still but.... if your computer can consistently give you 45 FPS so that lock mode works, then I would set it for 40 in SF. And then I would set the dead zone to three or four, and I would go for a flight. At some point in the future you can go back into settings and turn down your upper limits for the lods to get a higher frame rate..... but for your first test flight you can certainly start with those two settings. This assumes of course that you have shut off ASW or lock mode and are allowing the Sim to report the actual FPS it's able to get
How do I get the LOD settings and such back that I had before trying the app? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the app modifies settings somewhere in the sim's files and because of that, even deleting the app doesn't get the default settings back. I really want to go back to how my MSFS was before trying the app, for reference. Am I supposed to reinstall the sim just to get it working the way it used to?
Re-install? That's a bit overly dramatic. The only things that are changed are your Terrain LOD and Object LOD. And it doesn't change it in the files. It only changes the copy of the program while it's in memory and running on your PC. You can easily go back into your settings menu and drag the slider to the desired value. That's the extent of what is changed.
I'll make sure this is implemented for my next update. In the meantime, please accept my apology for not including it in this admittedly early access release.
Tested this, but it is not running…no install, just unzip and run?
Please make Video for settings
Wow a 3rd utility now, thanks Steve! I use first one: DynamicLOD for VR and works with Fixed FPS play. For me, that's at 30 FPS with MR. First time in years getting this sim to be butter smooth with almost zero micro-stutters; what an awesome feeling while flying now!!! (Cant quite get to 45 consistently in my new rig because of the 3080Ti.) Based on your suggestion, I will try this and see if I can disable Motion Reprojection now at 30 FPS. Thanks again:)
In this current iteration, the SmoothFlight tool is designed to work without motion reprojection only. With ASW or MR, the sim continually reports that it is always at half-native-framerate. So without accurate FPS data coming from the sim, SmoothFlight cannot accurately assist.
Understood; the plan was to try it with no MR anyways, thanks.@@somewhereelsestudio6342
So you are auto-varying 3 settings based on the UI window= TLOD, OLOD and RA. What is RA? By the way too; I don't know why on my PC but the utility was accurately picking up the correct Motion Reprojection FPS and was adjusting the 3 variable settings as I flew just fine. So also tried in non MR as well, was auto-correcting in the same fashion in both modes just fine.@@somewhereelsestudio6342
@@somewhereelsestudio6342Is that also the case when enabling MR in ToolkitXR and not in FS2020 itself?
@@MrEDETGood question. Because of the way that all reprojection technologies work, I think they'll all be problematic. Because my experience with them is that they either will report 45 FPS or 90. (assuming this is on a headset that's set to 90hz refresh) . The most important part of this is that no matter which one they report, it will never change. And watching that number change is how SmoothFlight works. So if you MUST use reprojection, then maybe a different solution is better for you. But in my testing, as long as I can set the minimum FPS to 38 or higher, I can have a successful result. YMMV of course... and that's why we pre-release these types of tools so we can get a better handle on what works (hopefully the vast majority of it) and what doesn't.
Great solutions for getting More FPS and less stutters, but Microsoft shame that your Engine is so bad that we need all those Addons, hopefully MFS 2024 will be much better for VR performance
It would have been so much easier if they had just implemented it inside the box. It's quite a trick to get this to work using an outside application. Imagine how slick it would be if it was embedded??
Autofsp did not work for me at all. But this Smooth Flight works great. More Indepth review is need please.
Thanks friend. Can you do a detailed review and also a comparison between smooth flight and auto fps. Thanks
Wow, this seems very interesting!
Will these programs work with FPS games as well?
Through my testing with it in VR the TLOD stays at the minimum setting? It doesn't budge, any idea why?
It is always good to see such tools🎉🎉🎉
So is this to be used in conjunction with that other auto fps app? Can they work together? Or just one or the other? Are you using DLSS frame generation? Does it work with frame gen?
Also, I have not installed and setup MSFS along with my Quest3 yet. Do I need to dial in MSFS settings first without VR, and then with VR, and THEN use one of these programs or will these just work instantly as a "set and forget" kind of thing? (RTX3080).
Nope, they cannot work together. Even though the internal processes are unique, they both modify the exact same parameters in the sim...and as such will just fight against each other with unpredictable results. Umm.. not sure how to answer the next question as DLSS is an upscaling technology and frame generation is another thing entirely. But I think the best way to answer this is that it works just fine with upscaling. It does not work with frame generation... unless the frame generation reports a useful FPS. All of the frame Gen tech I've tried just reports a static number (either half-rate or full rate) and therefore is useless. But if your computer can play the game at half-native rate (36/40/45), just turn it off and see what it looks like. This has the uncanny capability of making 45 FPS look much smoother than the raw numbers indicate.
@@somewhereelsestudio6342 It seems to interfere with the Turbo mode in the XR Toolkit, whereas sometimes I can see the effects of turbo mode fps increase (in the 60's) for a time and then it drops down to half refresh at 36 for awhile...can you verify if this is normal behavior or not?...Not sure if i should use this with the XR toolkit currently.
Also I have no understanding of how to get the UI visible in the cockpit when in VR...any idea? Thank you for this btw, I may be able to come back to msfs because of this!!
So to be clear, one would run this in lieu of AutoFPS, not in tandem? Have you, or can you, do a side by side comparison of the two?
I'm going to do that today and will post video
Hi Steve. I have tried to download the files but I'm having. I have read their instructions but I can't open the files? Any idea's mate.
Quick question. Are you still using the OpenXR toolkit to do this? And is this add on added on to every game?
I'm not using the Open XR Toolkit to do this, but I do use it in conjunction with this addon. (If that's what you mean)?
I’d love a deeper dive into the possible combinations and optimal use for each.
@@VRFlightSimGuy Yes, that’s what I mean. Thank you for your prompt response! I’ll definitely subscribe to your channel. Great content!
So question you only startup this app before the sim only for VR? That will effect both VR and PC graphics settings? And can you please fly any airliner instead of GA for ones so we can see the performance more?😊
Thanks
There is a checkbox on the left side of the screen for VR. Uncheck that box, and it will change the settings in 2-D mode. It does not have to be started before the sim. You can indeed launch the sim first, fly around for an hour, and then launch it. It doesn't really care. The only limitation is a timer that waits for about 30 seconds to see if it can find MSFS running. So I generally just wait until I have the sim up and running first.
Sorry if I missed this, I went through all the posts. Can I adjust Smoothflight settings on the fly or must I stop/restart VR or even restart the sim itself?
No need to pause, changes can be made on the fly. The trick is getting to where you can interract with the app while in VR. I manage this by bringing the app into the VR world, and then use the standard Alt-Tab windows shortcut keystroke to bring the app into focus... or some would call it the foreground app. I know this is very klunky, and hopefully a better way will present itself. But functionally there is no reason to pause.
Some payware airports which are using custom ground textures provide very very ugly looking textures when setting TLOD to 50 or lower. Even below your airplane position. So it's not always the best way to use low TLOD
Couldn't agree more. That's why I have included the ability to set a custom lower limit for TLOD (and OLOD). Having a low limit set to 10 can be really ugly, but when you fly like I do, sometimes you need it to be a bit heavy handed to get you back to a flyable framerate. I like to fly faster than mach 1 downtown Manhattan. Not many do.
On the other hand, I know many of you are more "polite" and like to follow procedures and treat the sim like an actual "Simulator". And so you are probably going to be happier setting the low limit to something that looks a bit better.
I know there are already 20 or so questions asking "What are the proper settings?" Well, if there was such a thing as a "proper setting" then I wouldn't have spent the time making these things adjustable.
For those who still feel like I owe them a preset ;) Try this:
* Set the Upper maximum for TLOD to 100 (or to whatever you had it set to before you tried SmoothFLight)
* Set the Upper maximum for OLOD to 100, (or whatever you would set it to manually as above)
* Set the desired FPS to something around 5 FPS lower than what you think your video card can do on average... Now Go Fly. Don't spend all day in a menu. This is supposed to stop that.
Remember that SmoothFlight isn't going to give you more power. Its job is to turn down some settings when you get into a difficult area, and then them back up when you return to an "easy" area. The "goal" if there is such a thing, is to set your upper maximum (TLOD especially) so that you can reach it. Once reached, SmoothFLight will turn all the rest of the extra horsepower into higher FPS. It's not uncommon for me to have a minimum FPS set to 40, the LOD's are maxed out and the sim is running at 70+ FPS. It sounds lot more simple than it really is.
What you get as a benefit is:
* less stuttering because your computer now has a bit of headroom to play with.
* you might discover the mouse even seems a bit more responsive as you try to adjust things on your dash (because your computer has more headroom now)...
* Lower temperatures on your video card (it's not being pushed to 100%)
...and the list goes on
how can help me that if i dnt know which system you have? we have not the same computer ...
Anyone with a Quest 2 know how to make the UI appear in the cockpit once in VR mode?
Auto FPS is not working after the sim update