I just KNOW this footage has already been incorporated into the recruitment videos. I'll never forget when I joined as a scout, and the recruitment video showed all this high speed stuff (dudes with boonie hats creeping around the bush silently like the LRRPs of Vietnam... There were even dirt bikes in the video (never actually saw one while in). In the end, I was in the back of an APC, breathing exhaust fumes 90% of the time, as part of an armored maneuver element.
@@josephahner3031 I heard that being a gunner on a Bradley is more fun than a Abrams. Yea the 120mm gun is powerful but the autocannon just keeps on going. But it could just be a small sample size and everyone's preference differs.
@@neurofiedyamato8763 never got to fire the M242, but I've been in the driver's seat of a Bradley during live fire and watched the gunner's sight feed from the driver's display. That was pretty cool, but being a 19K and having fired the 120mm I can't say I agree. The sheer power of the muzzle blast is a rush that you just don't get with an autocannon or machine gun.
_"You just know these guys are having the most fun of anyone in the Army"_ I dunno.... jungle environment and no windshield, let's just say it's gonna be hard to talk while riding in those vehicles unless you want a mouthful of mud and/or bugs. 😅😅
Facing a near peer enemy needs a revert in doctrine. It's also why, with the adoption of the XM5, we've come back around to Battle Rifles. Superior range and penetration for plated infantry.
Well the humvee is supposed to be a evolution of the jeep(which was classed as a light truck like a humvee). But Humvees became a new class of light utility vehicles and the JLTV successor is even heavier. So I guess the jeep weight class was left empty as its subsequent successors kept getting heavier.
@@aking-plums6985I might be wrong but I think the wheel size make sense. It's small,hard to hit,can be changed easily and if destroyed there's more tires because of the size and the size of the tire won't dug mud too much unlike larger tires.
The Singapore Army's Guards Formation has used something similar since the '90s - the Spider Light Strike Vehicle (based on the Flyer) and the Spider LSV Mk.2. They seem to have transport, 40mm AGL and Spike Missile variants!
Awesome to actually see how forces are evaluating new ultralight concepts! I wonder if the French Fardier rider is also for a similar role for airborne forces?
The Polaris MRZR is really light and agile, narrow for offroad paths The Polaris Dagor seems very similars to new Squad Vehicle that Airborne Troops will be getting.
I have plenty of time between the wheel of various Polaris RZR models, they can go just about anywhere at a high rate of speed. However, I would be concerned about dense forest terrain that seems to be common in jungle warfare, it is one of the few environments the RZR can't effectively pass through. It can easily pass almost any track, but those are also easy to observe and mine or otherwise deny.
Army: we're getting rid of light Jeeps have a Humvee. Also Army: Humvee is also too light, have an MRAP. Still Army: Change of plan. We like Jeeps but Jeeps got big and heavy. Have some side by sides.
@@captainbroady I’ll be honest, I’d come back for free if they could get my last troop commander to French kiss a horse on the lips. Otherwise, no dice. 😂
It's an up-armored humvee. In the Cav, you're supposed to have six to a platoon but we rarely ever had six trucks. That said, this vehicle is wasted on just infantry. Put a bigger engine in that bad-boy and add a pintle mount for a .50 and it'd be set for the entire squadron. @@paxundpeace9970
Stripped down humvee weighs about 4200lbs. The polaris 4 seater weighs in around 2800lbs. The dagger weighs in at 3400lbs. The cvt clutches on the polaris burn belts. They really need to build better clutches. When loaded down the humvee will out do both polaris vehichles. Crazy.
I was in light Cav for over a decade, 1. Gun trucks need to work in pairs. You need 2 to cover reloads for one another, so they can move by bounds, and so tone can shoot while the other displaces. 2. I really like the idea of lighter vehicles. The best recon vehicle the Army has used so far were the unarmored humvees, but even lighter vehicles might be better. 3. For Northern Europe, Korea, and the US north of about Georgia you really need enclosed cabins and good heaters. Scouts need to get wet for their work, and the platoon really needs a place to warm up and dry off regularly. It has a HUGE effect on how long the platoon can stay on mission. 4.The Army has repeatedly tried to switch to unarmed scouts during periods of peace, and then given the scouts weapons and armor as soon as they start seeing combat, so I'm not sure that configuration would last. 5. You'd probably need 4 gun trucks to make the platoon practical (2 M2 and 2 Mk19), with 2-4 of the lighter vehicles. When fighting mounted as a platoon, 2 sections works best, with 2-3 vehicles in each section. 6. It would be a good idea to set up the light vehicles so they can be easily towed by humvees (with a hitch preinstalled, easy disconnect for the transmission, etc) this would allow the mounted element to bring empty light vehicles to the dismounted element. 7. This is a big one - YOU CAN'T COUNT ON SCOUTS TO AVOID FIGHTS. Sorry, I know it's not good doctrine, but your recon elements are going to fight. Historically they always do. Overall it's an interesting idea, but I just think the platoon needs around 4 gun trucks (2 sections of 2) and 2-4 of the light vehicles with dismounted scout squads, which would mean larger platoons. The bigger trucks can carry more gear (especially battery chargers, radios, and FLIR), more firepower, and give the platoon rolling shelter which can help them stay on mission longer, but they are not great for recon, since they have so much stuff on them that they can't be left unmanned. Mixing capabilities seems ideal.
I was thinking leave the mounted Scout Platoons alone with their 6x HMMWVs, but if you give the same 3-4 Polaris ATVs to the dismounted Scout Platoons, you could gain the mobility without having to change anything in their structure (they're already purely footmobile with no armor/heavy MGs in the sections, so no tradeoffs there). Can take the ATVs if needed for greater mobility, or leave them behind (or halfway or wherever) and continue their current footmobile use... Although I can see a Pacific orientated unit with lots and lots of heavy jungle where the HMMWVs for mounted Scout Troops would be at enough of a disadvantage to consider the lower armor/firepower tradeoffs for the greater mobility (as those current units are likely to be forced to dismount anyway in such terrain), but for the rest, these would be a greater force multiplier for the dismount Troop IMHO (But I'm just a former POG talking out my ass so you know, grains of salt loool)
Wait, wait, wait, wait.... Is that a sidemounted MG and a Top mounted Minigun at 1:51 ? That's some A-Team level shit. Who needs armour if you're just going to light up everything in every direction xD. Edit: Oh God, I just googled it. Yes it is. Seems like somebody asked "How American do you want this to get" "Yes, absolutley"
Are one of these vehicles used for the mobile mortar system that was featured in a video not too long ago? If I recall correctly, the DAGOR kind of looks like the vehicle that mounted an 81 mm mortar in the back. If anyone knows I'd be interested to find out if they're different vehicles and if so, why they don't just use the same vehicle (or a slightly modified vehicle) to streamline parts and supplies.
That concept tentatively had the M1301 infantry squad vehicle as a base, which is a GM vehicle that will be used by motorized infantry brigades in the future. I'm not actually sure why the Polaris DAGOR was tested for the concept here as they are the same class of vehicle, but it may have been because it was easier to procure as a one-off commercial off the shelf vehicle than get an ISV through the big army
Watching this video and looking over the organization and benefits of such a unit, I can't help but remember that the U.S. Army had such organizations as late as the early 1980's with such a vehicle.... ... it was called the Jeep...
@@Grubnar Willys MB and Ford GPW were first produced in 1941. Descendents of it were produced and used well into the 1980's by the U.S. Armed Forces: The M38, M38A1 (known as the Jeep CJ5 in the Civilian market), and the famous (or infamous if you've driven the early ones) M151 MUTT series which could be found in some reserve units into the 1990's.
9th Infantry (Motorized) at Ft Lewis. They were the High Technology Test Bed (HTTB). Big Army decided to cancel the program and deactivated the 9th ID.
This is what Humvees were doing in the early 2000s until IEDs became a threat after the initial invasion of Iraq. The Humvees I trained on were set up just like this and we trained having every man having their gun pointing out to cover all directions. Then we rapidly transitioned to uparmored Humvees.
Regular Marine Infantry BNs have been equipped with the MRZR for at least 5 years. But these particular tactics are being copied from the Marines Littoral Combat Team which is also stationed in Hawaii and the 25th ID have been training with for the last 2yrs
Couple of things 1. Of course as soon as there is a cool piece of equipment the sir (officer) wants to ride on it and puts the platoon daddy in a HMMWV 😂 2. Those things are going to get wrecked if the Pvt’s and Spc’s get to drive them unsupervised. I was in a unit that was given 3 gators, we quickly annihilated 2 of them going off road and would try to drive it in between these two trees in a path. We ended up with only 1 and the battery commander stepped in, no lower I listed could use it without an nco driving with him 😂 just sayin’
This formation seems like they’d greatly benefit from the XM7 & XM250. So that way they’d only need one ammo type, and could even mount an XM250 on the MRZR or DAGOR.
Maybe it's just me but when I look at this arrangement, between the jungle environment and lack of front windshield, I can't help but think whoever rides in these vehicles are gonna get a mouthful of mud and bugs each time they try to speak. 😅😅
@@MaxwellAerialPhotography Jungle warfare is close in battle. The HE 411 you mention is great. But you need to use a laser range finder before it's effective. We used both in Helmand. But that was a mix of close in battle and medium range.
@@MaxwellAerialPhotographynot in a jungle environment, dense foliage makes accurate range finding almost impossible and without accurate, quick range finding air burst rounds are literally useless. Conventional HE or canister is better there.
So, back to light infantry in tiny vehicles, like the 9th infantry FAV dune buggies in the 80’s. We got rid of the miserable things for humvees and were quite happy to be out of the weather, with a heater, more gear and better off road performance.
Speed is essential. I like the concept. One wants to get out of trouble as quickly as you get into it. It fits with the scouts and all the hunters and offroader kids use razors growing up. It's a good doctrine in theory.
If there is a road, then it is not the jungle, fighting in the jungle means walking and sometimes using mules or horses, any vehicle in the jungle is heard miles away, some countries are experymenting with electric vehicles and motorcycles
Back when it was 4/25 (11th Airborne now) we used the Polaris GMV 1.1. Basically it’s the MRZR and DAGR combined, while still capable of mounting weapons and armor. Great for airborne operations, air assault, and scouting. They just weren’t the best in the winter, primarily due to no windshield and heater though their are efforts to make a winter kit. Other than that, would rather go with the GMVs over the Humvees.
Yeah I think it’s a good concept, I would only add that in the way cheap drones are more readily available now, single gun trucks especially ones lacking any anti drone capabilities or support are more vulnerable than I think the imagined missions perceive
This is pretty similar to our Cazadores de Monte (forest hunters infantry) in Argentina. They are light infantry for the northern subtropical and dry forests. They operate with wheeled light vehicles and recently have incorporated the Polaris vehicles too.
Please detail: What size unit these Light Cav Squadrons support The component of: Squadron HHQ Squadron Forward Support Company Troop HQ Sections (Motorized vs Dismounted Mortar Sections (Motorized vs Dismounted) Dismounted Cav Sniper Squad Dismounted Cav Platoons
Very informative. There are both Pros & Cons to moving to their final configuration with just one gun truck in a platoon. This Humvee would be out of action for long periods of time. Consider that the platoon sergeant would regularly remove it from the line as he gathered up the beans, bullets, & water for his platoon. In addition it appears that he would be responsible for evacuating wounded troops. Therefore one of your greatest casualty-causing weapon systems would be out of service for a great percentage of time. Not good. The Calvary Scouts have primary missions of (1) being the forward eyes & ears of the Battalion, Brigade &/or Division. For this mission, you can make a case that lighter & more mobile fits the need. But…. And I have a Bug But here; Calvary has the other mission of (2) being a Screening Force (Security units) for the larger units when in movement. You want the scouts to be the first engaged by an attacking enemy. In this role, some .50 cal MGs, some Tow missiles, and any other heavy weapons that you can load on board an armored gun truck would be really useful! Now Scouts are very capable of calling in artillery, mortars, & air support. Can’t do that well if the enemy forces are overrunning your positions with no fear of your weapon systems, though. Do a video on Armored Cavalry. You will see that an armored Cavalry Platoon typically operates with. Section of tanks (2), and a section of IFV’s (2). In addition the PL & PS usually have an IFV, too. The IFVs have a squad for dismount that is split into two small sections ( fire teams ) and a vehicle section. The troops provide stealth. The IFVs provide overwatch. And the tanks bring knockout firepower. Combined arms at a platoon level. At least that is how it was done 30 years ago. 😊
I'm thinking leave the mounted Scout Platoons alone with their 6x HMMWVs, but if you give the same 3-4 Polaris ATVs to the dismounted Scout Platoons, you could gain the mobility without having to change anything in their structure (they're already purely foot mobile with no armor/heavy MGs in the sections already, so no tradeoffs there). Can take the ATVs if needed for greater mobility, or leave them behind (or halfway or wherever) and continue their current foot mobile use... Although I can see a Pacific orientated unit with lots and lots of heavy jungle where the HMMWVs for mounted Scout Troops would be at enough of a disadvantage to consider the lower armor/firepower tradeoffs for the greater mobility (as those current units are likely to be forced to dismount anyway in such terrain), but for the rest, these would be a greater force multiplier for the dismount Troop IMHO (But I'm just a former POG talking out my ass so you know, grains of salt loool) Love the videos, looking forward to the next!
You're not talking out of your ass. I was the XO of a D Troop / FSC for a Cavalry Squadron in 10th Mtn (LI), mobility and logistics was a nightmare for the dismounted cav scouts.
I'll bet that large drones will also play a role in force mobility for difficult terrain. I could imagine a short-hop drone having enough umph to move a soldier or perhaps even a pair of them. It probably wouldn't be hard to move an entire fire team if you have a few big octo-copter drones at a company platoon level. Helicopters server the roll of the 'gun-truck' in this case, where smaller drones could be used at the unit level. Depending on construction you might even be able to pack it in like other gear.
Would be interesting to see something like the mual from Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter to carry heavy AT/Weapons and ammo for the guys on ground with the ability to drive on most terrains. I'm more curious about how effective infantry will be with drone tech developing as fast as it is. It's going to probably turn to very fast strikes and get back underground or bunkers until full control of the airspace is obtained. Though in fights with non conventional enemies I truly feel there will be no way of winning anymore.
I wonder if the new focus on jungle warfare will also bring back the Vietnam style Jungle Mechanized, where they had light amphibious armor like armed M113s with infantry to handle inundated terrain like swamps or deep mud
Got news for you, those damn tracks only went so far, then it was ground-pounder time. Besides, charlie could hear those detroit motors a mile away. You lose the element of surprise and set yourself up for an ambush.
I've been reading 'Arms of the Future' by Dr Jack Watling and this fits right into thr concepts mentioned. Mobility and low signature are going to be the key watchwords.
We had these in the 82nd, but got rid of them all about 9 months ago and swapped over to the new ISV. One time we flipped it doing donuts on the drop zone 😂.Personally I think the concept as a combat vehicle is absurd but for transportation it’s nice.
We had a RZR in 2012 when we were deployed to Moqor district in Ghazni province. 1/504 82D. It wasn't very practical, though. Way too many IEDs and sniper threats to use it for operations. We just messed around with it on our down time for the most part. Got some cool pictures of the boys with the 240 mounted on the passenger side. Pretty cool. Jungle would be effective if you put a bug screen on the thing.
Oh shit, i was in 3-4 cav back in 08. Glad to see they are continuing to innovate and try new things. We were trying out 4 wheelers back then, ended up using them a ton out of the back of ch47's in Iraq.
Marine infantry battalions, have also been using jav teams like this for a while now although slightly different with each battalion and mission calling for slight alterations
As a retired Cav. Light Scout. It's one of the funniest challenging jobs to have. A Cav. Scout is self-sufficient and has multiple skill sets. We are the eyes and ears of the battlefield!
Hey Army learning from the Navy…glad they finally got it. 35 years ago Marine Humvee recon vehicles outperformed Army Bradley recon vehicles. The purpose of recon is to observe and report…not to engage.
Not just heavy, hot. Armour doesn't breath. Which is bad enough in dry heat, but potentially deadly in humid heat. The marines did extensive testing of plate carriers in the jungle recently and their findings were you ahve to ultra-careful about how long you wear the armour because it can cause casualties just by having men get too hot.
For the scouts mission, drone capabilities must be a top priority. Ukraine has proven beyond a doubt, the effectiveness of drone for reconnaissance and fire support direction.
Team of 30 Ukrainians used side by sides and dirt bikes to create 40 mile long column and bring it to halt. Helped since Russians never had contingency plan for secondary routes.
I remember your video about Russians doing same sort of research with an ultralight technical unit in central asia influenced by the lessons learned from Syria... the American version sure has the future strategic concern of island hopping capability and self sufficiency in the pacific theatre for the coming decades of intensified cold war with China in the region but the need is clearly there for all armed forces with global responsibilities as part of their doctrine...
I think you might be thinking of the Russians experimentation with “Tachanka” light gun trucks built off of Ural trucks and SuV’s. Those were built and utilized for very different purposes than this when they were deployed to Syria.
If these get adopted I'm sure they'll start to get guns and armor bolted on by troops. Given enough time they may even evolve the same way as the HMMWV did until the cycle begins again.
This looks like the S-FAV concept from the 9th ID (in the 80s). Lots of issues, especially with maintenance, sustainment, and cold injuries. That was before the shooting ever started. The day we turned those in for HMMWVs was a great day.
For some reason this brings to mind the dirt bike video that suckered in so many to become Cavalrymen back in the 80s-90s...self included. Never saw a single one in 11yrs of service lol.
Mobility can be armor, specially in difficult terrain. I wonder if horse training was officially or unofficially considered by the cavalrymen for really rough terrain.
In the opening of the video the sling load operation is actually done by the Air Force CRW. I know this cause I was literally there wen we did this 2-3 years ago At Little Rock.
Great video!
Nerd
Mald@@misfits8237
@@misfits8237
😂
THATS MY LT!
What a killer, hope you’re doing good as an XO! 🫡
I just KNOW this footage has already been incorporated into the recruitment videos. I'll never forget when I joined as a scout, and the recruitment video showed all this high speed stuff (dudes with boonie hats creeping around the bush silently like the LRRPs of Vietnam... There were even dirt bikes in the video (never actually saw one while in). In the end, I was in the back of an APC, breathing exhaust fumes 90% of the time, as part of an armored maneuver element.
"Your lung cancer is not service related "
The Dirt Bikes were in the 101st in the early 80s ... we had a few on the Border in Germany with the 11th ACR....
I KNOW EXACLTY WHAT FUCKING VIDEOS YOURE TALKINF ABOUT. THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ME
@@Bigsky1991 this was the early 2000s. Video was fairly recent. Totally false advertising.
My favorite part was being housed in asbestos filled barracks for a year and a half lol
You just know these guys are having the most fun of anyone in the Army
Looking at this from my mechanized battalion with HEAVY envy
Apache pilots and tankers enter the chat
@@josephahner3031 I heard that being a gunner on a Bradley is more fun than a Abrams. Yea the 120mm gun is powerful but the autocannon just keeps on going. But it could just be a small sample size and everyone's preference differs.
@@neurofiedyamato8763 never got to fire the M242, but I've been in the driver's seat of a Bradley during live fire and watched the gunner's sight feed from the driver's display. That was pretty cool, but being a 19K and having fired the 120mm I can't say I agree. The sheer power of the muzzle blast is a rush that you just don't get with an autocannon or machine gun.
_"You just know these guys are having the most fun of anyone in the Army"_
I dunno.... jungle environment and no windshield, let's just say it's gonna be hard to talk while riding in those vehicles unless you want a mouthful of mud and/or bugs. 😅😅
This is the vehicle everyone dreamed about owning when they were a 13 year olds boy.
You're god damn right
Even full grown men spaz out over such toys, yes I said toys.
I still dream about it at 27 lol
I'd still take it (and the hit to my fuel expenses / tickets from LE) at 31 years old 😂
I'm 40 and dreaming of one of those
We've finally come full circle to the old school jeep
Exactly.
And then they’ll finally get back to donkeys like Merrill’s Marauders.
Marine’s 10th mountain division has donkeys already
@@Frisco_Schills Been there done that in Afghanistan. And just like WWII, they did their train up at Fort Carson.
Facing a near peer enemy needs a revert in doctrine. It's also why, with the adoption of the XM5, we've come back around to Battle Rifles. Superior range and penetration for plated infantry.
So they rediscovered the utility of the Willys jeep. Good for them.
Well the humvee is supposed to be a evolution of the jeep(which was classed as a light truck like a humvee). But Humvees became a new class of light utility vehicles and the JLTV successor is even heavier. So I guess the jeep weight class was left empty as its subsequent successors kept getting heavier.
Basically the humvee turned into wheeled universal/brengun carriers leaveing the jeep spot open.
For the Algorithmen
Amen brother
For the emperor
Amen 🙏🏻
Algorithm
To the Algorithm Gods!
I'm a believer in UTVs. They are incredibly cheap and give a lot of mobility in rough terrain without the need for tracks (eg M113).
And because the army is building essentially commercial vehicles with minor changes they don't necessarily suffer from being "Military grade"
That's a laugh. Initial batch of Polaris Dagors delivered in 2015 were $150k each. At the time the civilian version cost under $20k.
Does anyone know why the wheels on the Polaris MRZR look too small for that size of vehicle?
@@aking-plums6985I might be wrong but I think the wheel size make sense. It's small,hard to hit,can be changed easily and if destroyed there's more tires because of the size and the size of the tire won't dug mud too much unlike larger tires.
@the_rzh compared to a M113 and a HMMV, cost wise I would take the Polaris.
The Singapore Army's Guards Formation has used something similar since the '90s - the Spider Light Strike Vehicle (based on the Flyer) and the Spider LSV Mk.2.
They seem to have transport, 40mm AGL and Spike Missile variants!
Yes! I've seen them in person before. It's like a militarised and upscaled version of a dune buggy and an absolute treat to drive.
Those are meant for our Guardsman, our scouts still riding dirt bike
@@___Danny___ya man
Awesome to actually see how forces are evaluating new ultralight concepts! I wonder if the French Fardier rider is also for a similar role for airborne forces?
The Polaris MRZR is really light and agile, narrow for offroad paths
The Polaris Dagor seems very similars to new Squad Vehicle that Airborne Troops will be getting.
If I remember correctly, the Dagor was entered into the competition for the Infantry Squad Vehicle but ultimately lost to the GM vehicle.
I have plenty of time between the wheel of various Polaris RZR models, they can go just about anywhere at a high rate of speed. However, I would be concerned about dense forest terrain that seems to be common in jungle warfare, it is one of the few environments the RZR can't effectively pass through. It can easily pass almost any track, but those are also easy to observe and mine or otherwise deny.
I LOVE the militarized golf kart
Army: we're getting rid of light Jeeps have a Humvee.
Also Army: Humvee is also too light, have an MRAP.
Still Army: Change of plan. We like Jeeps but Jeeps got big and heavy. Have some side by sides.
Love the detail!
Team-sized sections.
That's definitely fitting the "lightweight" brief 😅
Hawaii mentioned.
@@BattleOrderBrazil mentioned when
I would've loved to use this instead of a 1151A1 while I was a Cavalryman. That said, I'm out and you couldn't pay me to go back. lol
Given the recruitment numbers these days, I think they would pay you :D
@@captainbroady I’ll be honest, I’d come back for free if they could get my last troop commander to French kiss a horse on the lips. Otherwise, no dice. 😂
The 1151 A1 is what to the common men?
It's an up-armored humvee. In the Cav, you're supposed to have six to a platoon but we rarely ever had six trucks. That said, this vehicle is wasted on just infantry. Put a bigger engine in that bad-boy and add a pintle mount for a .50 and it'd be set for the entire squadron. @@paxundpeace9970
Presumably the M1151A1, a type of humvee
Stripped down humvee weighs about 4200lbs. The polaris 4 seater weighs in around 2800lbs. The dagger weighs in at 3400lbs. The cvt clutches on the polaris burn belts. They really need to build better clutches. When loaded down the humvee will out do both polaris vehichles. Crazy.
I was in light Cav for over a decade,
1. Gun trucks need to work in pairs. You need 2 to cover reloads for one another, so they can move by bounds, and so tone can shoot while the other displaces.
2. I really like the idea of lighter vehicles. The best recon vehicle the Army has used so far were the unarmored humvees, but even lighter vehicles might be better.
3. For Northern Europe, Korea, and the US north of about Georgia you really need enclosed cabins and good heaters. Scouts need to get wet for their work, and the platoon really needs a place to warm up and dry off regularly. It has a HUGE effect on how long the platoon can stay on mission.
4.The Army has repeatedly tried to switch to unarmed scouts during periods of peace, and then given the scouts weapons and armor as soon as they start seeing combat, so I'm not sure that configuration would last.
5. You'd probably need 4 gun trucks to make the platoon practical (2 M2 and 2 Mk19), with 2-4 of the lighter vehicles. When fighting mounted as a platoon, 2 sections works best, with 2-3 vehicles in each section.
6. It would be a good idea to set up the light vehicles so they can be easily towed by humvees (with a hitch preinstalled, easy disconnect for the transmission, etc) this would allow the mounted element to bring empty light vehicles to the dismounted element.
7. This is a big one - YOU CAN'T COUNT ON SCOUTS TO AVOID FIGHTS. Sorry, I know it's not good doctrine, but your recon elements are going to fight. Historically they always do.
Overall it's an interesting idea, but I just think the platoon needs around 4 gun trucks (2 sections of 2) and 2-4 of the light vehicles with dismounted scout squads, which would mean larger platoons. The bigger trucks can carry more gear (especially battery chargers, radios, and FLIR), more firepower, and give the platoon rolling shelter which can help them stay on mission longer, but they are not great for recon, since they have so much stuff on them that they can't be left unmanned. Mixing capabilities seems ideal.
I was thinking leave the mounted Scout Platoons alone with their 6x HMMWVs, but if you give the same 3-4 Polaris ATVs to the dismounted Scout Platoons, you could gain the mobility without having to change anything in their structure (they're already purely footmobile with no armor/heavy MGs in the sections, so no tradeoffs there). Can take the ATVs if needed for greater mobility, or leave them behind (or halfway or wherever) and continue their current footmobile use...
Although I can see a Pacific orientated unit with lots and lots of heavy jungle where the HMMWVs for mounted Scout Troops would be at enough of a disadvantage to consider the lower armor/firepower tradeoffs for the greater mobility (as those current units are likely to be forced to dismount anyway in such terrain), but for the rest, these would be a greater force multiplier for the dismount Troop IMHO
(But I'm just a former POG talking out my ass so you know, grains of salt loool)
This is the Army realizing they need to re-gear for Pacific fight or they're going to be sitting out the next one.
LOL i saw dudes in the desert driving that thing 8 years ago at fort bliss. they been "testing" that atv for a while now
Wait, wait, wait, wait.... Is that a sidemounted MG and a Top mounted Minigun at 1:51 ? That's some A-Team level shit. Who needs armour if you're just going to light up everything in every direction xD.
Edit: Oh God, I just googled it. Yes it is. Seems like somebody asked "How American do you want this to get" "Yes, absolutley"
Literally British armed land rover.
Neat! I was expecting dirtbikes or something, but those MRZR's and DAGOR's look fun.
Are one of these vehicles used for the mobile mortar system that was featured in a video not too long ago? If I recall correctly, the DAGOR kind of looks like the vehicle that mounted an 81 mm mortar in the back.
If anyone knows I'd be interested to find out if they're different vehicles and if so, why they don't just use the same vehicle (or a slightly modified vehicle) to streamline parts and supplies.
That concept tentatively had the M1301 infantry squad vehicle as a base, which is a GM vehicle that will be used by motorized infantry brigades in the future. I'm not actually sure why the Polaris DAGOR was tested for the concept here as they are the same class of vehicle, but it may have been because it was easier to procure as a one-off commercial off the shelf vehicle than get an ISV through the big army
@@BattleOrder Appreciate the response! I always look forward to your videos!
Watching this video and looking over the organization and benefits of such a unit, I can't help but remember that the U.S. Army had such organizations as late as the early 1980's with such a vehicle....
... it was called the Jeep...
Isn't the Jeep from the 1940's?
@@Grubnar Willys MB and Ford GPW were first produced in 1941. Descendents of it were produced and used well into the 1980's by the U.S. Armed Forces: The M38, M38A1 (known as the Jeep CJ5 in the Civilian market), and the famous (or infamous if you've driven the early ones) M151 MUTT series which could be found in some reserve units into the 1990's.
M-151 jeeps.
9th Infantry (Motorized) at Ft Lewis. They were the High Technology Test Bed (HTTB). Big Army decided to cancel the program and deactivated the 9th ID.
1:31 - The second stud exiting the plane - His life got a exciting for a few second. 🤣
This is what Humvees were doing in the early 2000s until IEDs became a threat after the initial invasion of Iraq. The Humvees I trained on were set up just like this and we trained having every man having their gun pointing out to cover all directions. Then we rapidly transitioned to uparmored Humvees.
Regular Marine Infantry BNs have been equipped with the MRZR for at least 5 years.
But these particular tactics are being copied from the Marines Littoral Combat Team which is also stationed in Hawaii and the 25th ID have been training with for the last 2yrs
Couple of things
1. Of course as soon as there is a cool piece of equipment the sir (officer) wants to ride on it and puts the platoon daddy in a HMMWV 😂
2. Those things are going to get wrecked if the Pvt’s and Spc’s get to drive them unsupervised.
I was in a unit that was given 3 gators, we quickly annihilated 2 of them going off road and would try to drive it in between these two trees in a path. We ended up with only 1 and the battery commander stepped in, no lower I listed could use it without an nco driving with him 😂 just sayin’
Oh u know every officer would turn these into grocery getters lol
Interesting to see If this tactic works in a hilly jungle terrain like Burma or Vietnam.
This formation seems like they’d greatly benefit from the XM7 & XM250. So that way they’d only need one ammo type, and could even mount an XM250 on the MRZR or DAGOR.
Maybe it's just me but when I look at this arrangement, between the jungle environment and lack of front windshield, I can't help but think whoever rides in these vehicles are gonna get a mouthful of mud and bugs each time they try to speak. 😅😅
The CG can fire canister rounds. Good thing to have in a jungle 👍😊
Mmmm. 1100 flechettes of fuck you.
They have programable airburst rounds, which I would say is better.
@@MaxwellAerialPhotography Jungle warfare is close in battle. The HE 411 you mention is great. But you need to use a laser range finder before it's effective. We used both in Helmand. But that was a mix of close in battle and medium range.
@@MaxwellAerialPhotographynot in a jungle environment, dense foliage makes accurate range finding almost impossible and without accurate, quick range finding air burst rounds are literally useless.
Conventional HE or canister is better there.
So, back to light infantry in tiny vehicles, like the 9th infantry FAV dune buggies in the 80’s. We got rid of the miserable things for humvees and were quite happy to be out of the weather, with a heater, more gear and better off road performance.
😂😂 They all got a bunch of cav scouts from the 04-08 timeframe to sign up with a cool video back then. "Fool me once.."
Speed is essential. I like the concept. One wants to get out of trouble as quickly as you get into it. It fits with the scouts and all the hunters and offroader kids use razors growing up. It's a good doctrine in theory.
If there is a road, then it is not the jungle, fighting in the jungle means walking and sometimes using mules or horses, any vehicle in the jungle is heard miles away, some countries are experymenting with electric vehicles and motorcycles
Really interesting video!
Back when it was 4/25 (11th Airborne now) we used the Polaris GMV 1.1. Basically it’s the MRZR and DAGR combined, while still capable of mounting weapons and armor. Great for airborne operations, air assault, and scouting. They just weren’t the best in the winter, primarily due to no windshield and heater though their are efforts to make a winter kit. Other than that, would rather go with the GMVs over the Humvees.
The NZ Army adopted Polaris mrzr shortly after the marines brought some over for a wargame a few years ago
Yeah I think it’s a good concept, I would only add that in the way cheap drones are more readily available now, single gun trucks especially ones lacking any anti drone capabilities or support are more vulnerable than I think the imagined missions perceive
This is pretty similar to our Cazadores de Monte (forest hunters infantry) in Argentina. They are light infantry for the northern subtropical and dry forests. They operate with wheeled light vehicles and recently have incorporated the Polaris vehicles too.
Not many ATV trails in the jungle. At least not the ones we'd be fighting in. In those cases, you'd want to stay off the trail anyway.
Please detail:
What size unit these Light Cav Squadrons support
The component of:
Squadron HHQ
Squadron Forward Support Company
Troop HQ Sections (Motorized vs Dismounted
Mortar Sections (Motorized vs Dismounted)
Dismounted Cav Sniper Squad
Dismounted Cav Platoons
Basically they re-invented the Willy's Jeep
It would be neat to see them experimenting with diesel powered dirt bikes again
Very informative.
There are both Pros & Cons to moving to their final configuration with just one gun truck in a platoon.
This Humvee would be out of action for long periods of time.
Consider that the platoon sergeant would regularly remove it from the line as he gathered up the beans, bullets, & water for his platoon. In addition it appears that he would be responsible for evacuating wounded troops. Therefore one of your greatest casualty-causing weapon systems would be out of service for a great percentage of time.
Not good.
The Calvary Scouts have primary missions of (1) being the forward eyes & ears of the Battalion, Brigade &/or Division. For this mission, you can make a case that lighter & more mobile fits the need.
But…. And I have a Bug But here;
Calvary has the other mission of (2) being a Screening Force (Security units) for the larger units when in movement. You want the scouts to be the first engaged by an attacking enemy.
In this role, some .50 cal MGs, some Tow missiles, and any other heavy weapons that you can load on board an armored gun truck would be really useful!
Now Scouts are very capable of calling in artillery, mortars, & air support. Can’t do that well if the enemy forces are overrunning your positions with no fear of your weapon systems, though.
Do a video on Armored Cavalry. You will see that an armored Cavalry Platoon typically operates with. Section of tanks (2), and a section of IFV’s (2). In addition the PL & PS usually have an IFV, too. The IFVs have a squad for dismount that is split into two small sections ( fire teams ) and a vehicle section.
The troops provide stealth. The IFVs provide overwatch. And the tanks bring knockout firepower.
Combined arms at a platoon level.
At least that is how it was done 30 years ago. 😊
Brilliant evolution of a sports car that evolved into a super-sports car that eventually became a Supercar. Definitely an icon for the ages
I'm thinking leave the mounted Scout Platoons alone with their 6x HMMWVs, but if you give the same 3-4 Polaris ATVs to the dismounted Scout Platoons, you could gain the mobility without having to change anything in their structure (they're already purely foot mobile with no armor/heavy MGs in the sections already, so no tradeoffs there). Can take the ATVs if needed for greater mobility, or leave them behind (or halfway or wherever) and continue their current foot mobile use...
Although I can see a Pacific orientated unit with lots and lots of heavy jungle where the HMMWVs for mounted Scout Troops would be at enough of a disadvantage to consider the lower armor/firepower tradeoffs for the greater mobility (as those current units are likely to be forced to dismount anyway in such terrain), but for the rest, these would be a greater force multiplier for the dismount Troop IMHO
(But I'm just a former POG talking out my ass so you know, grains of salt loool)
Love the videos, looking forward to the next!
You're not talking out of your ass. I was the XO of a D Troop / FSC for a Cavalry Squadron in 10th Mtn (LI), mobility and logistics was a nightmare for the dismounted cav scouts.
Should talk about the British army’s light cavalry
I'll bet that large drones will also play a role in force mobility for difficult terrain. I could imagine a short-hop drone having enough umph to move a soldier or perhaps even a pair of them. It probably wouldn't be hard to move an entire fire team if you have a few big octo-copter drones at a company platoon level. Helicopters server the roll of the 'gun-truck' in this case, where smaller drones could be used at the unit level. Depending on construction you might even be able to pack it in like other gear.
Would be interesting to see something like the mual from Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter to carry heavy AT/Weapons and ammo for the guys on ground with the ability to drive on most terrains. I'm more curious about how effective infantry will be with drone tech developing as fast as it is. It's going to probably turn to very fast strikes and get back underground or bunkers until full control of the airspace is obtained. Though in fights with non conventional enemies I truly feel there will be no way of winning anymore.
I wonder if the new focus on jungle warfare will also bring back the Vietnam style Jungle Mechanized, where they had light amphibious armor like armed M113s with infantry to handle inundated terrain like swamps or deep mud
Got news for you, those damn tracks only went so far, then it was ground-pounder time. Besides, charlie could hear those detroit motors a mile away. You lose the element of surprise and set yourself up for an ambush.
LETS GO BOYS THE COMBAT GOLF CART IS IN
I've been reading 'Arms of the Future' by Dr Jack Watling and this fits right into thr concepts mentioned. Mobility and low signature are going to be the key watchwords.
Jack Watling is great. I had no idea he had published a book recently. Thanks!
@aaronclair4489 No problem! If theres any other books of his you'd recommend I'd appreciate it.c
New video from Battle Order…..Happy Friday indeed!!!!
We had these in the 82nd, but got rid of them all about 9 months ago and swapped over to the new ISV. One time we flipped it doing donuts on the drop zone 😂.Personally I think the concept as a combat vehicle is absurd but for transportation it’s nice.
Finally, a truly successor for Willy Jeep.
We went full circle and reinvented the original army jeep
That's the Army way!
Indo Pacific for rapid combat engagements threat is high from Chinese PLA forces
We had a RZR in 2012 when we were deployed to Moqor district in Ghazni province. 1/504 82D. It wasn't very practical, though. Way too many IEDs and sniper threats to use it for operations. We just messed around with it on our down time for the most part. Got some cool pictures of the boys with the 240 mounted on the passenger side. Pretty cool. Jungle would be effective if you put a bug screen on the thing.
HOLY FUCK MEGADETH REFERENCE?!!
This concept is no different than what US SOF has been doing for years with its mobility capabilities. Good video.
Stealth isn't just low signature, its how big an area you could be in. Thus high mobility is higher stealth.
Awesome video! Out of curiosity, is there any interest in the Estonian Scouts?
I have a fantasy where the US Army clones a 1990 Hilux as a light utility vehicle. Call it something like the Technical Support Vehicle.
Why would they not just buy modern hilux? They are sold all over the world, except the united states.
@@cenccenc946 aesthetics
For the algorithm & AWESOME VID, THX!!!!
Oh shit, i was in 3-4 cav back in 08. Glad to see they are continuing to innovate and try new things. We were trying out 4 wheelers back then, ended up using them a ton out of the back of ch47's in Iraq.
Thank you!
Marine infantry battalions, have also been using jav teams like this for a while now although slightly different with each battalion and mission calling for slight alterations
For those who loved adventures, explosions, adrenaline rush, military vehicles, GO TO YOUR NEAREST RECRUITING Center!
As a retired Cav. Light Scout. It's one of the funniest challenging jobs to have. A Cav. Scout is self-sufficient and has multiple skill sets. We are the eyes and ears of the battlefield!
Hey Army learning from the Navy…glad they finally got it. 35 years ago Marine Humvee recon vehicles outperformed Army Bradley recon vehicles. The purpose of recon is to observe and report…not to engage.
I love how they were showing this off. But we're still rocking eighty pounds on our backs get the fuck out
Unrelated but kinda related question.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of wearing body armor / PPEs in jungle environments?
Advantage you have body armor. Disadvantage shit is heavy.
Protect against baboon rock throwers and chimpanzee spearmen.
Not just heavy, hot. Armour doesn't breath. Which is bad enough in dry heat, but potentially deadly in humid heat. The marines did extensive testing of plate carriers in the jungle recently and their findings were you ahve to ultra-careful about how long you wear the armour because it can cause casualties just by having men get too hot.
Advantage: duh. Disadvantage is heat. Philippine marines are notorious for fighting damn near bare naked for a reason.
For the scouts mission, drone capabilities must be a top priority. Ukraine has proven beyond a doubt, the effectiveness of drone for reconnaissance and fire support direction.
Team of 30 Ukrainians used side by sides and dirt bikes to create 40 mile long column and bring it to halt.
Helped since Russians never had contingency plan for secondary routes.
I remember your video about Russians doing same sort of research with an ultralight technical unit in central asia influenced by the lessons learned from Syria... the American version sure has the future strategic concern of island hopping capability and self sufficiency in the pacific theatre for the coming decades of intensified cold war with China in the region but the need is clearly there for all armed forces with global responsibilities as part of their doctrine...
I think you might be thinking of the Russians experimentation with “Tachanka” light gun trucks built off of Ural trucks and SuV’s. Those were built and utilized for very different purposes than this when they were deployed to Syria.
If these get adopted I'm sure they'll start to get guns and armor bolted on by troops. Given enough time they may even evolve the same way as the HMMWV did until the cycle begins again.
Are the Dagger Tires Foamed so they don't get Shot Flat?
I feel like we’re going to regret doing this in the future
I’m bricked up (for the algorithm)
🎶 welcome to the jungle 🎶
It won't work in dense jungle. It will be a stuck unarmored death trap.😂😂😂
This looks like the S-FAV concept from the 9th ID (in the 80s). Lots of issues, especially with maintenance, sustainment, and cold injuries. That was before the shooting ever started. The day we turned those in for HMMWVs was a great day.
Wish for Toyota technical videos soon.
These vehicles are not just being used in Jungle combat. They in Latvia for one of the Multinational Brigades under Canadian Command now
For some reason this brings to mind the dirt bike video that suckered in so many to become Cavalrymen back in the 80s-90s...self included. Never saw a single one in 11yrs of service lol.
Waiting a dirt bike on TV caught you to sign up to kill innocent people for below minimum wage? Murikkka
Y’all we literally have Warthogs now
LMAO.
All the jungles ive seen when scouting, dont have roads enough for these vehicles
Mobility can be armor, specially in difficult terrain. I wonder if horse training was officially or unofficially considered by the cavalrymen for really rough terrain.
Isn't horse training still part of the mountain warfare course?
I’m surprised they weren’t doing light vehicles like this before, since the marines and some NATO countries already have been
I guess how they will perform in Indian rainforest.
Drove that in Afghanistan briefly. Some ODA guys were good enough to loan us some.
Tbf the US Army Cav both Air and Armored Cav are experienced enough, they learned and adapted to the lessons of Vietnam.
Great content.
In the opening of the video the sling load operation is actually done by the Air Force CRW. I know this cause I was literally there wen we did this 2-3 years ago At Little Rock.
This feels like preparation for war in the pacific against a certain poo bear.
It is
You should make a video on Marine LAR Scouts sometime in the future.
Single man tanks and single man helicopters is where things get interesting...now that's a scouting party
@battleorder did you unpublish the ww2 ammo loads vid?