Hillside Stranglers Beltway Snipers Moors Murderers Starkweather and Fugate (spree killers if you're splitting hairs) Lake and Ng The Honeymoon Killers This is just off the top of my head I don't think Zodiac was a team, either, but it's not an uncommon thing.
Just like the case of Jack the Ripper, who has literally dozens of suspects, you can read a book on each one and when you've finished it you say, aha, this was him! Until you read the next book. As time slips away and suspects, witnesses, and original police investigators die off, the truth slips away little by little. Also, as more and more time goes by, more suspects are put forward, muddying the waters even more.
@@johnkeviljr9625 If not him, a person much like him. A local, probably part of any of the minority groups living at the time in whitechapel. White male of a working class background. Most probably unmarried, have problems in cross sex relations. Furthermore I would not limit the number of victims to the Canonical five.
100% him, Always the Polak.. Gacy in Chicago, iceman Kuklinski in mid-america and unabomber for the entire USA. If its 100 suspects, 1 is polack, thats the one! Golden rule.@@SWENationen
Just like Jack the Ripper, it is solved every month with a new name. Too much time has passed and most suspects are dead. We will never know for sure. Lee was also ruled out.
No one ever thought they would catch the Original Night Stalker / East Area Rapîst/ Golden State Killer / Vacillia ransacker. Genealogy may reveal who zodiac was one day!
Thanks, I was hoping I wasn't the only person thinking this. It's almost irrelevant at this point (like the Ripper) since no crimes committed in what 50 years? He's probably long gone to his "reward".
There's no DNA taken from the scene of any of the killings. The FBI, local law enforcement, an army of journalists, private citizens, and internet sleuths, have been pouring over this case for over 50 years. The only we get any closure is if the killer is still alive, still has evidence proving his guilt, and decides to give a deathbed confession. Otherwise we never really inow.
15:04 Richard Gaikowski's experience as a medic in the military tends to disqualify him as a suspect for me. Surely a medic or combat veteran would know about vital organs and what would kill a person. Yet, after shooting Michael Mageau and walking away, only to hear him still alive and making noises, Zodiak walks back and delivers a "kill shot" to Mageau's LEG! When Zodiak stabs Bryan Hartnell six times he misses all vital organs and Hartnell survives. He stabbed Celia Shepard ten times and she was alive to speak to police and made it to the hospital before she died.
The Zodiac may have wanted some victims to survive. Wearing the hood at the lake would not have been necessary if he had killed both of them. I am not but he may have let the man survive to tell the story.
@@thelastmotel Which would be considered "often" if there were only 6 serial killers known to date, but there isn't -there have been thousands of them. So, surely you see where you naming 3 of them isn't "often" right?
Poor Mike. Not only did he have the misfortune of being shot and watching his girlfriend die at the hands of the Zodiac Killer but to add insult to injury he had to go through life with people calling him Mr. Magoo.
He might have been someone not on anyone’s radar, similar to the Golden State Killer, Joseph D’Angelo, who was hiding in plain sight. But I don’t think we will ever know.
I've often thought that this was the case. Maybe to find the Zodiac, as with D'Angelo, someone should try investigating retired law enforcement officers! My other pet theory is that one of the known suspects was responsible for at least some of the killings, but was working with an unidentified accomplice. Serial killer teams are far from unheard of, and it would explain why there has never been sufficient evidence to arrest a single suspect, or why in some cases, there's been exoneratory evidence. Just a theory, but it fits some of the more puzzling pieces of evidence together well.
@@neuralmute Serial killer duos aren't unheard of, but (noting there are many types of serial killers as it's just people that have kiled multiple people) the type that worked as duos, were typically of just the animalistic no planning violent killer types. While I don't think the Zodiak killer was a genius or particularly intelligent, he is the planning and communicating with police types. That is not conducive with working with someone else. Between the ego, and the trust it would take to not fear the other getting you caught. And all survivors and withnesses have only ever seen one killer. Every case of serial killer duos they kill together. I've heard some (not investigators or experts but just people speculating as we all are doing) give the theory of one killer and another person writing the letters. Which doesn't fit, because a serial killer is not going to get the thrill from writing letters. Another serial killer working with them would only be in it for the thrill of the killing. If it were one of the known suspects, their accomplice would be someone they were in regular contact with. Of the known accomplices and the investigations and our reasons for suspecting them, we know where they worked lived, and knew. We think they are the one because they worked at the movie theater near * and it played the movie relating to the killing. Their bosses and other people that knew them were talked to. That leads to too much chance of being revealed when that accomplice is talked to. Back to my previous statement of they types of killers that worked as duos, they were lowlifes, living the lowlife lifestyle. That's how they met the other person, and they met them in a type of place or environment that one would expect to meet violent people, who MIGHT share the same murderous mind. Whereas all the Zodiac suspects (and the type of person that they determine the mentality of the Zodiac killer to be) are middle class workers who are not outwardly violent. There were things that made people suspect underlying creepiness, that they tried to hide and tried to appear normal to everyone. Different from the duo killers who were of the lowlife type that most people could tell just by looking at them to stay away. So how would the middleclass worker who has a hidden murderous mind, that they want to hide from the public meet this accomplice? They aren't approaching coworkers in the break room with "By the way do you happen to like killing people too?" and just hope they meet another outwardly normal but with a hidden desire to kill people person.
A major problem also is investigation would often attribute all murders in the same manner to "the killer". So if there were multiple people or copycats this would be discounted considered a mere distraction to throw them off. If DNA is ever done it's not on every body for a variety of reasons. So if they happen to test one by a copycat or a contaminated sample it wouldn't point to one of their suspects. Or they may get a match but ignore other samples besides the suspect and partners or copycats stay free.
They have multiple letters with dna (under the stamps) and they have been doing testing as of the last year and a half. There was an update on the dna (slightly interesting), apparently one DNA sample they got from a letter was FEMALE. That threw a wrench in the works. They investigation team will most likely go for Genetic Geneology, at some point.
The guy is right tho. Its very often considered racist to say a suspect is black, even if said suspect is indeed black. At least it gave you the chance to get a really funny meds joke in though.
You skip over the strongest evidence for Doerr in my opinion. He didn't just claim to have killed people: The confession was a reply to a letter writer who was distraught because someone had given LSD to his infant daughter(!). Doerr claimed to have been in a similar situation a few years back "and some people are no longer alive because of it". He also asked the editor to NOT print this letter, only pass it on to the other guy (the editor ignored that). It wasn't even a deliberate confession. But what's really damning, is that they worked out what that he referred to as the "similar situation". Doerr only had one child, Gloria. When Kobek interviewed Gloria, after the book had been published, she recounted that her father had been furious at her for breaking curfew, accused her of promiscuity and taking drugs, and almost killed her. They then worked out that this episode must have happened very close to the first murders. So it was in all likelihood specifically the Lake Herman Road killings he confessed to.
No one on the night of Paul Stine's murder was thinking "The Zodiac did it", so the police were looking for a black man as the dispatcher had told them.
It seems to me, after reviewing numerous sources of information on this case, that it is entirely possible that the Zodiac killer took credit for a number of murders that were committed by others and was mostly seeking attention.
Kinda agree: serial killers tend to have a pattern. Zodiac didn’t. He even said he was gonna mix things up and make it look different to others. I think this was his way of doing what you just said
I agree with this. I think we actually know that he for sure lied about at least one murder, right? I think he copped to a crime where SFPD already had their suspect locked up
The entire Paul Alfred Doerr section is plagiarized from a Reddit post, word for word. I’m sure with that part being so blatant that much of the rest of this video is likely plagiarized from other works as well
Too many suspects and the inability to rule any of them out sadly means we still have no idea who the zodiac killer was. We are not any closer than we were decades ago.
Yeah that's an incorrect statement. Serial killers almost exclusively work alone. Leonard Lake and Charles Ng are the only "pair of serial killers" I can think of.
Amazing how circumstancial evidence and reasoning works, you can basically line up numerous people and present the facts in a way that they all look guilty or suspicious, and than think about jury's, how many people are convicted like this, freaking amazing.
in one of the Ripper books, a guy does this with some random man, and at the very end says he's just kidding. You can make literally anyone Jack the Ripper who happened to be alive at the time.
B. R. Hauptmann. 1934. Convicted and executed for a notorious crime that he never committed. All the evidence against him was only circumstantial, and that’s because all the evidence against him had really been planted by the police.
What's scary to me, aside from the murders, is how many different people show up during investigations who are clearly dangerous when out and about in the human population. Just the idea that this many people narrowly fit a highly specific profile and match enough of the points to be suspected, and clearly had issues of their own whether Zodiac or not... makes you wonder about how many people around you are secretly time-bombs.
That’s one of the creepiest things about cases like this.. in the Jon benet Ramsey case there were hundreds of child sex offenders in the area . Hundreds
I've done a lot of studying this case, but honestly I doubt it's any of the suspects that are popular and I am positive it's not any of the more far out theories like the Manson connection. I would love to see it solved but I highly doubt that it will be. The Zodiac is probably dead and gone
@theycantallbezodiac he looks like the sketch, in spite of lacking a widow's peak and having a wider nose . Nancy Slover said that his voice is the same as the Zodiac even though she was old. Richard was in the military, but records were burned in a fire so we have no idea how long or any other details. The fire was eventually put out. He was trained as a medic to rip wounded soldier's clothing off , which the Zodiac did to Paul Stine after killing him. When Gaikowski was committed to a mental asylum, the Zodiac Killer didn't write for nearly 3 years. In one of the Zodiac's cryptograms, the word "GYKE"/ "GAIK" can be seen among the letters. Some allege that Gyke or Gaik was a nickname for Gaikowski. It has been alleged that he attended one of the victim's funerals, even though he had no idea who they were. He followed a surviving victim to New York after she remarried and worked in the same building as her, he followed her and her husband for some time. He had a basement which not many people knew about. Zodiac said he had a basement.
I've always been intrigued by the possibility of some academic type like Ted Kaczynski because of the cyphers. It may have even been a duo or group. California was such an odd state back then producing so many high profile weirdos general in addition to killers.The unnabomber and night stalker the golden state killer the zodiac killer the manson family Sirhan Sirhan etc. The mysterious deaths of others before and after but that one period produced such memorable crimes that it stands out.
arthur leigh allen has already been disproven. and post isnt even a credible suspect. its stupid how people even consider allen to be a suspect anymore. all it does is hold back progress on the case if there is any to be made anymore
I think he is someone who was briefly interviewed but dismissed as a suspect because he did seem to be the 'type'. I have never seen an analysis of how many men would have had the knowledge Zodiac had. Remember military service was much more common then than now as the Vietnam Was was going on and the draft ended in 1972.
I heard it recently turned out that they took the DNA sample from the front of the stamp. So it wasn't the DNA of the person licking the stamp, just the DNA of some person holding the envelope at some point. So that non-DNA match actually doesn't tell us anything.
Allen was a boichemist. He understood blood typing from saliva. He would not have licked a swamp, nor would He have left ANY types of prints on any piece of paper...
Ha ha, I thought the same thing. It looked like he was in his mid 40's. I guess driving a taxi in San Francisco in the late sixties made you old before your time.
From these listed suspects I would say Paul Doerr seems like the most likely candidate to me. He was highly intelligent, his correspondence with the newspapers is eerily similar to that of the Zodiac, his handwriting was similar to Zodiac, was skilled in cryptography and his fascination with the Renaissance festival means that he could've gotten the executioner's hood from there.
“Mike Ma-goo?” I hate to be that guy, but his last name is pronounced; Ma-geaux. Perhaps it’s just me nitpicking, but when putting together a true crime documentary, the absolute bare minimum, and the least you could do is to get the victim’s names right.
We may never know who the Zodiac is/was. While he may be one of the many suspects/persons of interest people have listed over the years, it’s also likely that he could honestly be somebody who was never a suspect and likely never would be thought of as being the Zodiac Killer. Regardless, the Zodiac defiantly made it so nobody would forget about him as people still try to figure out who he was to this day.
I don't believe any of the popular suspects is anything like the man behind the Zodiac spree. I think most of the popular assumptions -- e.g., that this man was overtly disturbed; that he was into astrology and/ or the occult; that this man had a particular resentment towards women or couples -- are false. Serious students of the case need to reject all of the bad assumptions and start over from scratch.
@@norbertk9595as time goes on, I’m a bit more incline to believe the man who is the Zodiac isn’t someone that is listed as a suspect. If he is or ever has been, then he’s someone who is not listed or talked about enough for people to truly keep his name in the public mind when discussing the case. Lot of people have their favorite suspects/persons of interest and try to look at everything we have on the Zodiac and make their suspect fit the mold of the Zodiac when that’s not good when trying figure out who the Zodiac is. Lot of circumstantial evidence makes Arthur Leigh Allen look like the Zodiac Killer, yet there’s no physical or DNA evidence to tie him to being the Zodiac. Plus Don Cheney had a grudge against Allen particularly due to him being inappropriate with his daughter among other things, so it looks like Cheney really just wanted to ruin Allen’s life and that’s why he said everything he said about Allen being the Zodiac.
Bingo. The most cogent narrative is that none of the pet suspects were the Zodiac Killer and the reason(s) for law enforcement's failure for not catching Zodiac was a combination of poor police work and bad luck. There is a strong argument to be made for Zodiac being the luckiest high profile serial killer of the 20th century. Just think, the police and the FBI have Zodiac's partial DNA profile, a palmprint exemplar, bloody fingerprint exemplars, handwriting exemplars, his shoe/boot size, and physical description, yet law enforcement hasn't come close to getting him in a courtroom to pay for his cowardly crimes.
Wasn't Allen too jowly to match the sketches? The Doerr segment was quite interesting. He made references to Gilbert and Sullivan ( ??? ) in his "zine" writing, just as in the Zodiac letters. That is a much bigger long-shot coincidence than Allen saying he liked the novel The Most Dangerous Game, and the Zodiac referencing it. The Zodiac was indeed hunting humans, which is what the novel was about, so it's not a stretch that he would mention it.
Yeah, I suspected Allen for a long time, but I have to admit that it was mostly from the movie pointing that way. Looking into it myself, he didn't seem worthy as a suspect at all. And no pictures of him resembled the description at all.
Allen still has more circumstantial evidence against him than anyone even if he isn't Zodiac. There is nothing that suggests Doerr is the Zodiac, just a guy with esoteric interests.
Allen was big, fat and bald -- the police composites suggest Zodiac was none of those (Fouke described the PH suspect as "barrel-chested"). Allen was also a homosexual pedophile. See behavioral profiler Sharon Pagalings comments in the "His Name Was Arthur Lee Allen" doc; this astute woman deems Zodiac a heterosexual male whose relationships with women were age-appropriate.
You have a predilection for accepting the better and ignoring the bitter. Don Cheney was an attention seeker and Robert Graysmith a classic carnival barker. Allen was a creepy dude, but he was not the Zodiac Killer. Allen's DNA profile, fingerprint/palmprint exemplars, and handwriting exemplars did not match the DNA found on 2 of the Zodiac letters; multiple bloody fingerprints found on the door of Paul Stine's cab; a palmprint found on 1 of the Zodiac letters; and the handwriting on the Zodiac letters. Allen also didn't match the descriptions of the individual who murdered Paul Stine, and no items with direct links to the Zodiac murders were found at Allen's residence.
My theory: Why have these murders been logged together as the work of a serial killer? There doesn't appear to be a consistent modus operandi. In fact, if you leave the letters out of the equation, there is no apparent link between in each case. It's as if the letter writer wants the police to treat the cases as the work of one man. What if one of the attacks was committed by a cop who committed another attack and then wrote the letters to create a link to another two cases in order to cover up his first crime? This would explain a lot. From watching many documentaries on the Zodiac, I have formulated the following premise: Case 2 (shooting): Michael Renault Mageau, 19, and Darlene Elizabeth Ferrin, 22: shot on July 4, 1969, in the parking lot of Blue Rock Springs Park in Vallejo. Mageau survived the attack, Ferrin was pronounced dead on arrival at Kaiser Foundation Hospital. The second attack was carried out by the juvenile division detective Richard Hoffman. In interviews, Hoffman continually feels the need to explain why he was out there and squinted and looks down as he gives his explanation. They victims were followed and the driver left then came back and shot them. According to Darlene (the female victim), his name was Richard. How many men named Richard were out there that night in a supposedly deserted area?!. This Richard knew the victim and she said he was jealous and would kill her if she was with someone. Hoffman's body language and demeanour when questioned about whether he knew Darlene is suspicious. He looks away to avoid eye contact with the interviewer. He answers the question "did you know her" very quickly and appears to be angry that he was asked. He was at the park minutes before and was still nearby when the call came through. The survivor, Michael Mageau, thought the killer was a police officer. The killer wore glasses as does Hoffman in the documentary. Hoffman was with the survivor when the other cops arrived. He didn't go to the girl, who knew him. (Was he disturbed before finishing the job?). The other cop on the scene says he couldn't make out anything that Darlene was saying!! What nothing? This is very suspicious. Hoffman's comments on Darlene being undressed in the ambulance and his creepy comments about her bra. The phrase "I saw her" is interesting and accompanied by stress!. Hoffman also says: "I was there to record anything that 'would' have been said" by her (not might have been said). Case 3 (stabbing): Bryan Calvin Hartnell, 20, and Cecelia Ann Shepard, 22: stabbed on September 27, 1969, at Lake Berryessa in Napa County. Hartnell survived eight stab wounds to the back, but Shepard died as a result of her injuries on September 29, 1969. This case bears no similarities to case 2. The detective at the lake side scene didn't report what Shepard said about his looks!! He didn't think it was important!! The description doesn't match Hoffman, which is convenient and that description was brought up later after she died at which point it could not be corroborated. The other cops were not allowed to talk to her before she died. The crime scene by the lake was compromised as well as the clothing etc. Finally, Hoffman's police report misspells until as 'untill' the very same misspelling appears in the famous Zodiac Letter.
Betty Lou Jensen was the younger sister of my mother's best friend, Melodie (who recently passed). Betty Lou would have been at my parents' wedding in 1964 and well known to my father, John. My father strongly resembled the police sketches, owned all of the weapons used in the murders, was a cipher fanatic, worked at Mare Island Naval Shipyard, went on frequent "hunting trips", was very familiar with EVERY murder location in the bay area but died of a brain tumor in 1972 when I was 6 years old (He would have been 29). I don't believe that my father could have done all of this alone - and certainly wasn't responsible for any of the murders after his death. His closest friend during that time was a man I only knew as "Uncle Pudge", a local butcher that my father had worked with before being employed on Mare Island. I don't know whatever happened to Pudge after my father died. I don't think I ever saw him again. I grew up with the Jensens. Verne (Betty Lou and Melodie's father) was a surrogate grandfather to me (as Melodie was my second mother). I still refer to Betty Lou's niece as "Sis". The Jensens are family. I reached out to the FBI with this information and to offer my DNA for testing purposes, but they never got back to me - go figure. I would really love some closure with regard to Betty Lou's murder which cast such a pall over my second family. As an aside, no one who knew my father that I've broached this subject with believes that he could have been capable of these killings (brain tumor or not) and stated that he was one of the sweetest, kindest men they ever knew and to this day, I pray that he wasn't involved. I suppose that's all I have to say about that. This presentation was really well done. Thanks for sharing.
Have you tried getting more information about this “uncle pudge”? I’m sure you have as your clearly dedicated but it just seems to me that besides waiting for the feds to get back to you that’s the only avenue to accrue more information. I mean even a full name or background would be helpful or if somehow he hasn’t passed perhaps law enforcement could even speak to him.
Im very sorry for your loss. The zodiac murders has always baffled me. And i pray one day the truth comes out and the true identity of the killer is revealed. Ill never forget Bettys case. Thanks for sharing some info about betty. Its good that people see that the victims were people, and that they are worth more then jus a newspaper headline
It's a good movie, in and of itself... David Fincher is awesome... but, like Oliver Stone's JFK, it is based on a book of baseless gossip, rumor, and guesses, some of it being flat out bullshit. It isn't as full of shit as JFK, but it is not nearly as "we know this to be true" as anyone actually knows. Graysmith is the equivalent of "Mr X" in JFK, who was essentially Fletcher Prouty. There is a bunch of talking from the asses of those people that is taken as gospel.
If there was any evidence in the DAs office that Manson family contained zodiac as a member they would’ve crucified all of them for it during the trial. Even if it wasn’t true.
Arthur Lee Allen was definitely not the Zodiac, however, I wouldn't doubt that he may have used the MO to actually commit a murder? I mean you never know.
@@SkindoggiedogI agree with your assessment. He did have some help. But the sketch shows someone with hair. Do we know if he ever wore a toupee? That information could be huge in my opinion. I’m sure it’s possible he used that as a disguise along with the glasses.
Zodiak was likely multiple unconnected murderers and the letters were created by a cop or journalist. Thats why you can find really good suspects for some attacks but not all.
A lot of evidence points on him, but at the same time, some cracked code from the Zodiac shows a few orthographic mistakes that give me second thoughts.
@@Neomalthusiano Very Interesting. It's a bummer that Zodiac will always be a mystery. I think today he would have been caught. But back then.................
I came home late one night and I went into the kitchen for a late night snack. When I did, someone hit me with a box of Total, followed by a box of Cap’n Crunch. I fought back, and he hit me with a box of cheerios before I finally got away. I’m lucky that I got away-I think he was a cereal killer.
No, it was not him. His name was found in Z340 and Z408. I found it and law enforcement took me seriously. It is really him. He is nothing to write home about. Just wait till you see him, you are in for a shock.
Paul Stine must have been through hell, not getting murdered, yeah that might have hurt a bit. But looking 50 when you're only 29? WTF happened to him?
I looked way older than I was, looking 40 at 25 and then, stopped ageing. Growing up in some places makes you age faster, in his case being a cab driver in la, in my case, in a soviet ruled part of Germany, at the time called DDR. Life is strange.
I've always wondered why he killed the taxi driver Paul Stein. I imagine Paul somehow put together that his passenger was The Zodiac. I don't know how this could be possible, but why else would he shoot a lone taxi driver?? The Zodiac was some incel who enjoyed killing couples. Shooting one random lone man would not bring The Zodiac any pleasure.
He had been taunted that he only hunted women. The men survived his attacks. So it may have been to prove his manhood. Or he might have been visiting a stressor nearby, such as a condescending mother. And then lashed out at Stine. That was John Douglas theory.
My theory is that he was not as brave and devil-may-care as he made out. I think after his killings had become public knowledge he was worried about getting caught. I think that killing Stein was just a soft target to boost his numbers, talking very little risk. But he could easily have been caught that night, and I think that scared him into retirement.
It was one guy. The amount of leaps you have to make for there to be two people (one doing the killing and one the writing) is so astronomical they should have to give you Olympic gold for the hurdles.
This happened at a time when police agencies, and federal authorities didn’t play well together. That’s about the only sophisticated aspect of the crime. The rest was luck and poor investigation and operations.
"Mike Magoo"? hahaha it's actually pronounced "Ma-jzo". Was this made with AI? The voiceover pronounces the same names several ways, like "Cheri" and "Sheri", and there's tons of little spelling mistakes in the written copy on-screen
I suspect, obviously with no way to to prove it, that many serial killers have never been caught; therefore the thesis that they are "lone wolves" or teams more likely can't be verified either way!
And although in most police investigations you will at least find the killer's name in there somewhere. I believe the zodiac is actually an exception and he is someone that has remained above suspicion and that none of the suspects are a good match to the zodiac.
Edward Wayne Edwards is The Zodiac killer. His Zodiac symbol displays his name ED no matter what angle it is displayed. Ed Edwards. He told the male victim the exact details of the prison he escaped from . Edward Edwards was in that prison. All the other details he gave the victim Ed Edwards had been. The photofit, the boot size, the leather sheath, the hood, him being in the area on the night of the killings, his cyphers had his name embedded within them his date of birth on the Halloween card. 14/06/1933. He never stopped killing until his death. He is a serial killer and can be linked to every Zodiac claimed murder through his being in the area when the murders took place. He appeared on a game show in a jacket covered in "Z" without doubt it is Edward Wayne Edwards his name is there in plain site. He killed other couples in lovers lanes. Look no further Edwards is the Zodiac €+D this is the closest I can get to showing you he embedded Ed Ed in his Zodiac symbol Edward Edwards.... Capital E capital D through the cross hairs gives Ed Ed....it is him and he tells you his name is in the letters.
I don’t either, for various reasons. But even if you take away Graysmith’s sensationalized case and discount Cheney’s accusation, the coincidences with Allen are incredible. It’s so hard to believe it’s not him. Yet, it most likely isn’t.
@@jere.nurkka not to mention, it's a CAB. It wouldn't be surprising to find hundreds of different DNA profiles in a cab, given that several different people get in and out of a cab every single day..
@@sethstine4698 But there is some story going around that Zodiac was in the front seat and Paul didn't let most people in the front. I don't know how they determined that but if that's true that would help a little bit.
While there have been times where serial killers have worked together...it is a rare occurrence. For my money, look no further than Dennis Rader. He had the opportunity to commit the crimes. He was in the area when they happened and there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence showing his guilt. Including the wing tipped shoes, writings, spelling errors, history of violence, and so much more. I implore anyone who is even remotely curious about the Zodiac case...look into it yourself. When I did the hair on my neck stood up.
@@jondorr4011 That is correct my friend. I understand if that sounds...odd but trust me when I say this, I (we) did not come to said conclusion lightly. There is such a wealth of evidence pointing towards Rader being the Zodiac Killer that it is very hard to ignore. We know Dennis Rader was in California during the Zodiac killings. We know that he was serving in the US military and even had access to the type of shoes the killer wore. Rader was known to taunt the police by sending letters. What's interesting here is how these letters were written. If you compare the Zodiac's letters and BTK's many things stand out. Both abbreviated words very strangely (like Calif for California) and they used words like consternation which were not common back then. Their handwriting looks almost identical to the naked eye (at least mine). My phone is about to die...if you're interested I have many more details to share with you. We also believe we can explain why the Zodiac changed his MO and became BTK.
@@Sinn0100 sure, I'm interested in what you have to say. Can't say I'll end up agreeing with you, but I'm definitely interested in what your evidence is.
@@jondorr4011 Hey, if you don't agree...that's okay too. Alright let's get into this thing... As I was saying earlier, Rader did many things the Zodiac Killer did when he was active. Like for example taunting police with a very unique writing style. However, there is something else that is so strikingly errie it made the hair on my neck stand up when I heard it. Both the Zodiac and BTK did not kill all of their victims (thank God). Two people (Ferrin and Mageau) that survived the Zodiac's attack talked about how polite he was and that he basically "disarmed" them (in a sense) by telling them he just wanted to rob them. Now, it is very important to note that this information was not shared with the public or media at that time. This information did not make it to the public until roughly 2004 after the release of The Zodiac film. Kevin Bright is the only known BTK victim that survived. During his interviews with law enforcement he talked about how BTK "disarmed" him by telling him that he was only there to rob him. He said BTK was very polite and acted as if he cared for his well-being. I believe the statement was "I am a wanted fugitive on the run from the law. I just want your car, money, and food. If you give me what I want I will leave" (I don't have my notes on me). The takeaway here is...the statement given by both serial killers was identical in every way. When you compound everything from the writing similarities, word usage, taunting police, access to the victims, long breaks between kills, and of course how they each treated their victims...there is something there. Addendum- My phone isn't the greatest so I am going to break up my response. In my next post I will give you our theory on why The Zodiac would change his MO...
@@jondorr4011 Now, why would The Zodiac change the way he kills? The reason is geographical in nature. You see, the Dennis Rader's stint with the military was up and he had nowhere to go but home. Now, Rader was very well known in Kansas making it very hard for him to kill out in the open as he had in Northern California. This is why he began attacking people in their homes but I digress... The one thing that bothers me is...the Otero Family. If we are to believe the status quo Dennis Rader chose and took down an entire family in broad daylight without anyone catching on. There is no way his "first attack" was first, no way. There are others of that I can guarantee.... Addendum- There is so much going on with these two cases that it is hard for me to believe they are not connected. If you're interested there is a book written by former detective Kimberly McGath that really paints a believable case. Seriously, check it out man. :)
What I don’t understand is that one of his victims was in the car with him, before she escaped. She would have had a very good look at him. Why did no one recognise the description she gave ? Surely there would have been gas stations, shops, bars who would have recognised her description.
Here’s my question! With the advancement in hereditary DNA testing why don’t they send the envelopes and watch to see if they can get a hit. I’m sure they’ll find DNA mixed with the stamp glue, or better yet the watch. Because no matter how tight watch seals are there’s always DNA material working it’s way inside the case.
I hate this case because it always seems like several men fit the profile. They tick all the boxes and it makes it seem like that isn’t a difficult feat.
It's funny how we still make rock stars out of these first batch of 70's serial killers when every day there's killers caught with higher body counts, that eat people, communicate with the press, are charming and hansom like Bundy, you name it. You'd think people would want to hear about something new (boy I do) but I guess in this instance it pays to be the first.
It's interesting with these cases, Zodiac, Jack the Ripper, Black Dahlia etc, you'd think the evidence would only point to one suspect but there's always compelling evidence that points to four or five. Strange! 🤔
As I start watching I have to say I'm praying this theory takes into fact the killer's use of radian angles. When it comes to narrowing the field or just naming the killer outright, the radian angle thing is massive.
@@kathykline7202 We now know that the Zodiac was in fact Ted Cruz's father.......Which is why Ted rebelled so hard and became the lead singer of Stryper.
@@nathaniel6526 He's not when you compare him to other killers. Only what, 5 victims? All were killed by Gunshot wounds. Whereas Jeffrey Dahmer had like 17 victims and would rape them while torturing them. The Zodiac Killer is so infamous because of the cryptic messages, and the mystery is unsolved some 50+ years later. The reality of the zodiac is IF they are still alive, they are well past 85 years old, and probably long dead and gone. This means the killings will likely remain unsolved forever unless there is a major piece of evidence that comes to the surface.
Too much time has passed by and like other cases like Jack The Ripper, the zodiac killer will be never be 100% known. And unless Arthur Leigh Allen had a personal secretary who was down for being an accomplice for his crimes and licked his letter envelopes, it can't be Allen. I'll admit, Allen was a creepy guy and he was not a good person it seems from what info is available. But, I don't think he had the nerve to do the murders as he was a very reserved guy. Zodiac was very braggadocious and would likely be a more brash kinda guy. The Code Breakers claim that DNA confirms Gary Francis Poste was the Zodiac killer. I'd believe him, Lawrence Kane or others like Ross Sullivan. Sullivan in particular had many similarities to the police sketch and he was closer to having more consistencies with what known info there is on the killer.
Most likely it was Arthur Leigh Allen. He wasn't ruled out as Zodiac only as the person who licked the stamps on the letters. It was well known that ALA hated the taste of glue and did NOT lick his own stamps which is why they tested Don Cheney as well because he could have licked the stamps not knowing where the letters were going. He could still have had another person or persons licking the stamps for him who were unsuspecting of him being Zodiac. Too much lines up well with ALA to not be Zodiac.
@@MarxMan0o Allen was 6 feet tall. Hartnell describes Z as 5’8” to 6’ tall. Hartnell had the longest look at him. The rest of the witnesses/ survivors had a flash and had things distorting Z’s height. ALA clearly falls within the range Hartnell gives. Not sure where you’re getting a foot taller than described, this is categorically wrong.
I have been pouring over all the info lately, and the deeper I go, the more convoluted it gets. Its almost to the point that the whole thing is comical. Everyone has a suspect they are 100% is the one, but not a single one has any hard evidence pointing at them. Even the letters that link all of this are not even consistent enough to make a case. There are a few things in the comments that make sense, multiple people and someone in law enforcement. The funny thing is its just as up in the air as it was in 1970.
It was two different people, and they did not know each other. Seemed too far-out to believe at the time, and a lot still don't think it possible, but it fits everything we know.
That's probably why it's the perfect crime. Alibi for a given crime or 2, so they couldn't have done "all" of them. DNA doesn't match. Etc, etc. Nobody checks all the boxes because it's more than 1 person.
@@trippmoore life experience. Licked a lot of stamps back in the day. Some businesses had this little porcelain wheel they used if they didn't feel like licking, but I never saw one in a private residence. Just using the sink would have been problematic - too easy to wash ALL the glue off. Yes, things were weird back then. Not gonna lie.
“Serial killers often work in pairs”. No, they don’t.
Hillside Stranglers
Beltway Snipers
Moors Murderers
Starkweather and Fugate (spree killers if you're splitting hairs)
Lake and Ng
The Honeymoon Killers
This is just off the top of my head
I don't think Zodiac was a team, either, but it's not an uncommon thing.
Yorksire Ripper. Dennis Neilsonn
@@studogable The key word is “often”.
@@tatata1543 which is nebulous as hell
@@studogable Hardly, it suggests serial killers working in pairs is a common occurrence. It isn’t, the vast majority are loners.
Just like the case of Jack the Ripper, who has literally dozens of suspects, you can read a book on each one and when you've finished it you say, aha, this was him! Until you read the next book.
As time slips away and suspects, witnesses, and original police investigators die off, the truth slips away little by little. Also, as more and more time goes by, more suspects are put forward, muddying the waters even more.
Agreed. Perhaps Kozminsky was Jack the Ripper?
@@johnkeviljr9625 If not him, a person much like him. A local, probably part of any of the minority groups living at the time in whitechapel. White male of a working class background. Most probably unmarried, have problems in cross sex relations. Furthermore I would not limit the number of victims to the Canonical five.
100% him, Always the Polak.. Gacy in Chicago, iceman Kuklinski in mid-america and unabomber for the entire USA. If its 100 suspects, 1 is polack, thats the one! Golden rule.@@SWENationen
@@SWENationen Agreed. Thank You!!!
Exactly! 😑🫨
Just like Jack the Ripper, it is solved every month with a new name. Too much time has passed and most suspects are dead. We will never know for sure. Lee was also ruled out.
And the final piece of the ciphers that supposedly contains his name will never be solved when there to few symbols to work with.
No one ever thought they would catch the Original Night Stalker / East Area Rapîst/ Golden State Killer / Vacillia ransacker. Genealogy may reveal who zodiac was one day!
Thanks, I was hoping I wasn't the only person thinking this. It's almost irrelevant at this point (like the Ripper) since no crimes committed in what 50 years? He's probably long gone to his "reward".
Jack the ripper using h.g.wells time machine to the future.and that man was h.h.holmes
There's no DNA taken from the scene of any of the killings. The FBI, local law enforcement, an army of journalists, private citizens, and internet sleuths, have been pouring over this case for over 50 years. The only we get any closure is if the killer is still alive, still has evidence proving his guilt, and decides to give a deathbed confession. Otherwise we never really inow.
15:04 Richard Gaikowski's experience as a medic in the military tends to disqualify him as a suspect for me. Surely a medic or combat veteran would know about vital organs and what would kill a person. Yet, after shooting Michael Mageau and walking away, only to hear him still alive and making noises, Zodiak walks back and delivers a "kill shot" to Mageau's LEG! When Zodiak stabs Bryan Hartnell six times he misses all vital organs and Hartnell survives. He stabbed Celia Shepard ten times and she was alive to speak to police and made it to the hospital before she died.
Could have done it on purpose as an alabie
@@jamesonmanning3138Do you know what an alib means?
The Zodiac may have wanted some victims to survive. Wearing the hood at the lake would not have been necessary if he had killed both of them. I am not but he may have let the man survive to tell the story.
@@the-quiver yes an alabie is a way to prove you didn’t do something it’s not just a person that says you didn’t
@@the-quiver the exact definition is a claim of evidence to prove one’s innocence
"serial killers often work in pairs" lol well.. They don't..
Fred & Rose West, Ian Brady & Myra Hindley, and The Hillside Stranglers, say hi
@thelastmotel open your eyes and ready the part where he said "often". 🤦🏼♂️
@@thelastmotel Which would be considered "often" if there were only 6 serial killers known to date, but there isn't -there have been thousands of them.
So, surely you see where you naming 3 of them isn't "often" right?
Poor Mike. Not only did he have the misfortune of being shot and watching his girlfriend die at the hands of the Zodiac Killer but to add insult to injury he had to go through life with people calling him Mr. Magoo.
Mr. Magoo is awesome tho 😉
I don't see what you did there.
Much as I dislike corrections of pronunciations, this one irks me. It's Ma-JOE.
that one bugs me. makes me wonder if its computer generated. had to back up and see if it was spelled magoo. still made me laugh though.
@@scallopohare9431 I know but the guy says Magoo in the video
He might have been someone not on anyone’s radar, similar to the Golden State Killer, Joseph D’Angelo, who was hiding in plain sight. But I don’t think we will ever know.
I've often thought that this was the case. Maybe to find the Zodiac, as with D'Angelo, someone should try investigating retired law enforcement officers!
My other pet theory is that one of the known suspects was responsible for at least some of the killings, but was working with an unidentified accomplice. Serial killer teams are far from unheard of, and it would explain why there has never been sufficient evidence to arrest a single suspect, or why in some cases, there's been exoneratory evidence. Just a theory, but it fits some of the more puzzling pieces of evidence together well.
@@neuralmute William McDuff Andrew is zodiac
@@neuralmute Serial killer duos aren't unheard of, but (noting there are many types of serial killers as it's just people that have kiled multiple people) the type that worked as duos, were typically of just the animalistic no planning violent killer types. While I don't think the Zodiak killer was a genius or particularly intelligent, he is the planning and communicating with police types. That is not conducive with working with someone else. Between the ego, and the trust it would take to not fear the other getting you caught. And all survivors and withnesses have only ever seen one killer. Every case of serial killer duos they kill together. I've heard some (not investigators or experts but just people speculating as we all are doing) give the theory of one killer and another person writing the letters. Which doesn't fit, because a serial killer is not going to get the thrill from writing letters. Another serial killer working with them would only be in it for the thrill of the killing.
If it were one of the known suspects, their accomplice would be someone they were in regular contact with. Of the known accomplices and the investigations and our reasons for suspecting them, we know where they worked lived, and knew. We think they are the one because they worked at the movie theater near * and it played the movie relating to the killing. Their bosses and other people that knew them were talked to. That leads to too much chance of being revealed when that accomplice is talked to.
Back to my previous statement of they types of killers that worked as duos, they were lowlifes, living the lowlife lifestyle. That's how they met the other person, and they met them in a type of place or environment that one would expect to meet violent people, who MIGHT share the same murderous mind. Whereas all the Zodiac suspects (and the type of person that they determine the mentality of the Zodiac killer to be) are middle class workers who are not outwardly violent. There were things that made people suspect underlying creepiness, that they tried to hide and tried to appear normal to everyone. Different from the duo killers who were of the lowlife type that most people could tell just by looking at them to stay away. So how would the middleclass worker who has a hidden murderous mind, that they want to hide from the public meet this accomplice? They aren't approaching coworkers in the break room with "By the way do you happen to like killing people too?" and just hope they meet another outwardly normal but with a hidden desire to kill people person.
A major problem also is investigation would often attribute all murders in the same manner to "the killer". So if there were multiple people or copycats this would be discounted considered a mere distraction to throw them off. If DNA is ever done it's not on every body for a variety of reasons. So if they happen to test one by a copycat or a contaminated sample it wouldn't point to one of their suspects. Or they may get a match but ignore other samples besides the suspect and partners or copycats stay free.
They have multiple letters with dna (under the stamps) and they have been doing testing as of the last year and a half. There was an update on the dna (slightly interesting), apparently one DNA sample they got from a letter was FEMALE. That threw a wrench in the works. They investigation team will most likely go for Genetic Geneology, at some point.
When he called Mike "McGoo" I about lost it.
Its most likely that "suspect in black" was misheard "suspect is black"
Yes but we are supposed to say RACISM!!
Get with the times Adolph
@@ransakreject5221hey
@ransakreject5221 take your meds, now.
The guy is right tho. Its very often considered racist to say a suspect is black, even if said suspect is indeed black. At least it gave you the chance to get a really funny meds joke in though.
@@Musso88 it’s policy in most newsrooms to only give a perps race if he’s white
You skip over the strongest evidence for Doerr in my opinion. He didn't just claim to have killed people: The confession was a reply to a letter writer who was distraught because someone had given LSD to his infant daughter(!). Doerr claimed to have been in a similar situation a few years back "and some people are no longer alive because of it". He also asked the editor to NOT print this letter, only pass it on to the other guy (the editor ignored that). It wasn't even a deliberate confession.
But what's really damning, is that they worked out what that he referred to as the "similar situation". Doerr only had one child, Gloria. When Kobek interviewed Gloria, after the book had been published, she recounted that her father had been furious at her for breaking curfew, accused her of promiscuity and taking drugs, and almost killed her. They then worked out that this episode must have happened very close to the first murders. So it was in all likelihood specifically the Lake Herman Road killings he confessed to.
No one on the night of Paul Stine's murder was thinking "The Zodiac did it", so the police were looking for a black man as the dispatcher had told them.
The most amazing part of this story is that Paul stein was 29! Dude looks 50 at least.....
This stuck out too. I doubled check to make sure it wasn’t a mistake and he was indeed somehow only 29
@@brendanraimondo7897 dude is 47 at least
yeah that's crazy, I paused and searched for a comment like this
Looked like George Reeves.
@@user-si6ik7dw6xLooked like he was wearing a groucho marx mask lol
It seems to me, after reviewing numerous sources of information on this case, that it is entirely possible that the Zodiac killer took credit for a number of murders that were committed by others and was mostly seeking attention.
Kinda agree: serial killers tend to have a pattern. Zodiac didn’t. He even said he was gonna mix things up and make it look different to others. I think this was his way of doing what you just said
I agree with this. I think we actually know that he for sure lied about at least one murder, right? I think he copped to a crime where SFPD already had their suspect locked up
Sure thing a lot of them
Do it
@@aftertheheadlines link the yt here ?
Agreed
The entire Paul Alfred Doerr section is plagiarized from a Reddit post, word for word. I’m sure with that part being so blatant that much of the rest of this video is likely plagiarized from other works as well
Next you'll be telling me that the narrator is AI too!
Too many suspects and the inability to rule any of them out sadly means we still have no idea who the zodiac killer was. We are not any closer than we were decades ago.
"Serial killers often work in pairs."
You lost me there.
Jeffery dahmer had a partner?
@@ricardolozano5356 Dahmer 😹😹😹
How about Ted Bundy?
Yeah that's an incorrect statement. Serial killers almost exclusively work alone. Leonard Lake and Charles Ng are the only "pair of serial killers" I can think of.
Most are loners.
Amazing how circumstancial evidence and reasoning works, you can basically line up numerous people and present the facts in a way that they all look guilty or suspicious, and than think about jury's, how many people are convicted like this, freaking amazing.
in one of the Ripper books, a guy does this with some random man, and at the very end says he's just kidding. You can make literally anyone Jack the Ripper who happened to be alive at the time.
I know. 2 of my uncles and my 6th grade teacher were all likely Zodiac.
Makes you realize why the American prison system is so full of people to the point they have to just release people to make room lol
B. R. Hauptmann. 1934. Convicted and executed for a notorious crime that he never committed. All the evidence against him was only circumstantial, and that’s because all the evidence against him had really been planted by the police.
What's scary to me, aside from the murders, is how many different people show up during investigations who are clearly dangerous when out and about in the human population. Just the idea that this many people narrowly fit a highly specific profile and match enough of the points to be suspected, and clearly had issues of their own whether Zodiac or not... makes you wonder about how many people around you are secretly time-bombs.
That’s one of the creepiest things about cases like this.. in the Jon benet Ramsey case there were hundreds of child sex offenders in the area . Hundreds
There’s a lot of humans on this planet way too many. There’s bound to be a lot of evil people out there. Probably a lot more each year
One in 25 humans are sociopaths.
Amén, never crossed my mind!! Oh sh&t!!!
@@cathimummery6873 Exactly. There are 40 MILLION people in California. At least a few dozen of them are bound to fit ANY profile.
I've done a lot of studying this case, but honestly I doubt it's any of the suspects that are popular and I am positive it's not any of the more far out theories like the Manson connection. I would love to see it solved but I highly doubt that it will be. The Zodiac is probably dead and gone
Or very, very old...
Richard Gaikowski was the Zodiac Killer
@@bluesea2023 that's not a fact
@theycantallbezodiac he looks like the sketch, in spite of lacking a widow's peak and having a wider nose .
Nancy Slover said that his voice is the same as the Zodiac even though she was old.
Richard was in the military, but records were burned in a fire so we have no idea how long or any other details. The fire was eventually put out.
He was trained as a medic to rip wounded soldier's clothing off , which the Zodiac did to Paul Stine after killing him.
When Gaikowski was committed to a mental asylum, the Zodiac Killer didn't write for nearly 3 years.
In one of the Zodiac's cryptograms, the word "GYKE"/ "GAIK" can be seen among the letters. Some allege that Gyke or Gaik was a nickname for Gaikowski.
It has been alleged that he attended one of the victim's funerals, even though he had no idea who they were.
He followed a surviving victim to New York after she remarried and worked in the same building as her, he followed her and her husband for some time.
He had a basement which not many people knew about. Zodiac said he had a basement.
I've always been intrigued by the possibility of some academic type like Ted Kaczynski because of the cyphers. It may have even been a duo or group. California was such an odd state back then producing so many high profile weirdos general in addition to killers.The unnabomber and night stalker the golden state killer the zodiac killer the manson family Sirhan Sirhan etc. The mysterious deaths of others before and after but that one period produced such memorable crimes that it stands out.
How people get so little time for hurting children is astonishing!!
arthur leigh allen has already been disproven. and post isnt even a credible suspect. its stupid how people even consider allen to be a suspect anymore. all it does is hold back progress on the case if there is any to be made anymore
I think he is someone who was briefly interviewed but dismissed as a suspect because he did seem to be the 'type'. I have never seen an analysis of how many men would have had the knowledge Zodiac had. Remember military service was much more common then than now as the Vietnam Was was going on and the draft ended in 1972.
Good points. I also suspect the Zodiac was involved -- in one way or another -- in the Vietnamese war.
I heard it recently turned out that they took the DNA sample from the front of the stamp. So it wasn't the DNA of the person licking the stamp, just the DNA of some person holding the envelope at some point. So that non-DNA match actually doesn't tell us anything.
Allen was a boichemist. He understood blood typing from saliva. He would not have licked a swamp, nor would He have left ANY types of prints on any piece of paper...
The most shocking statement in this video? “Paul Stein….age 29.”
Ha ha, I thought the same thing. It looked like he was in his mid 40's. I guess driving a taxi in San Francisco in the late sixties made you old before your time.
That dude must've had a hard life *before* he ran into a serial killer. Jesus.
Right? Maybe 59
I had to Google him to verify he was only 29! He was.
Yeah he looks at least 57 not 29
From these listed suspects I would say Paul Doerr seems like the most likely candidate to me. He was highly intelligent, his correspondence with the newspapers is eerily similar to that of the Zodiac, his handwriting was similar to Zodiac, was skilled in cryptography and his fascination with the Renaissance festival means that he could've gotten the executioner's hood from there.
Jim Ross tried to tell us all in the 90's. "Bah, God!!! That's gotta be Kane!!!".
“Mike Ma-goo?” I hate to be that guy, but his last name is pronounced; Ma-geaux. Perhaps it’s just me nitpicking, but when putting together a true crime documentary, the absolute bare minimum, and the least you could do is to get the victim’s names right.
Agree. And yet somehow, the word "penchant" was pronounced with a correct French accent but we also get "magoo".... SMH
We may never know who the Zodiac is/was. While he may be one of the many suspects/persons of interest people have listed over the years, it’s also likely that he could honestly be somebody who was never a suspect and likely never would be thought of as being the Zodiac Killer. Regardless, the Zodiac defiantly made it so nobody would forget about him as people still try to figure out who he was to this day.
I don't believe any of the popular suspects is anything like the man behind the Zodiac spree. I think most of the popular assumptions -- e.g., that this man was overtly disturbed; that he was into astrology and/ or the occult; that this man had a particular resentment towards women or couples -- are false. Serious students of the case need to reject all of the bad assumptions and start over from scratch.
@@norbertk9595as time goes on, I’m a bit more incline to believe the man who is the Zodiac isn’t someone that is listed as a suspect. If he is or ever has been, then he’s someone who is not listed or talked about enough for people to truly keep his name in the public mind when discussing the case. Lot of people have their favorite suspects/persons of interest and try to look at everything we have on the Zodiac and make their suspect fit the mold of the Zodiac when that’s not good when trying figure out who the Zodiac is. Lot of circumstantial evidence makes Arthur Leigh Allen look like the Zodiac Killer, yet there’s no physical or DNA evidence to tie him to being the Zodiac. Plus Don Cheney had a grudge against Allen particularly due to him being inappropriate with his daughter among other things, so it looks like Cheney really just wanted to ruin Allen’s life and that’s why he said everything he said about Allen being the Zodiac.
Bingo. The most cogent narrative is that none of the pet suspects were the Zodiac Killer and the reason(s) for law enforcement's failure for not catching Zodiac was a combination of poor police work and bad luck. There is a strong argument to be made for Zodiac being the luckiest high profile serial killer of the 20th century. Just think, the police and the FBI have Zodiac's partial DNA profile, a palmprint exemplar, bloody fingerprint exemplars, handwriting exemplars, his shoe/boot size, and physical description, yet law enforcement hasn't come close to getting him in a courtroom to pay for his cowardly crimes.
I'm sure you meant to say "definitely", not " defiantly".
@@Liz-sn1mm people are writing here, not talking.
Wasn't Allen too jowly to match the sketches? The Doerr segment was quite interesting. He made references to Gilbert and Sullivan ( ??? ) in his "zine" writing, just as in the Zodiac letters. That is a much bigger long-shot coincidence than Allen saying he liked the novel The Most Dangerous Game, and the Zodiac referencing it. The Zodiac was indeed hunting humans, which is what the novel was about, so it's not a stretch that he would mention it.
Fingerprints and DNA cleared Allen. Not even remotely an official suspect anymore.
Yeah, I suspected Allen for a long time, but I have to admit that it was mostly from the movie pointing that way. Looking into it myself, he didn't seem worthy as a suspect at all. And no pictures of him resembled the description at all.
@@thatllputmarzipaninyourpie3117 they don't have Zodiac DNA
Allen still has more circumstantial evidence against him than anyone even if he isn't Zodiac. There is nothing that suggests Doerr is the Zodiac, just a guy with esoteric interests.
Allen was big, fat and bald -- the police composites suggest Zodiac was none of those (Fouke described the PH suspect as "barrel-chested").
Allen was also a homosexual pedophile. See behavioral profiler Sharon Pagalings comments in the "His Name Was Arthur Lee Allen" doc; this astute woman deems Zodiac a heterosexual male whose relationships with women were age-appropriate.
06:07 - "Serial killers often work in pairs". Statistically, I don't think that's true.....
Often no, sometimes yes. Fred & Rose West and Ian Brady & Myra Hindley, for example, as well as The Hillside Stranglers.
You have a predilection for accepting the better and ignoring the bitter. Don Cheney was an attention seeker and Robert Graysmith a classic carnival barker. Allen was a creepy dude, but he was not the Zodiac Killer. Allen's DNA profile, fingerprint/palmprint exemplars, and handwriting exemplars did not match the DNA found on 2 of the Zodiac letters; multiple bloody fingerprints found on the door of Paul Stine's cab; a palmprint found on 1 of the Zodiac letters; and the handwriting on the Zodiac letters. Allen also didn't match the descriptions of the individual who murdered Paul Stine, and no items with direct links to the Zodiac murders were found at Allen's residence.
Highly unlikely a child Offender (Allen) would also be a serial killer of teens and adults
Zodiac was a teen himself. I got his name from Z340 and Z408/ Its his name without one doubt whatsoever.
My theory:
Why have these murders been logged together as the work of a serial killer? There doesn't appear to be a consistent modus operandi. In fact, if you leave the letters out of the equation, there is no apparent link between in each case. It's as if the letter writer wants the police to treat the cases as the work of one man.
What if one of the attacks was committed by a cop who committed another attack and then wrote the letters to create a link to another two cases in order to cover up his first crime?
This would explain a lot.
From watching many documentaries on the Zodiac, I have formulated the following premise:
Case 2 (shooting):
Michael Renault Mageau, 19, and Darlene Elizabeth Ferrin, 22: shot on July 4, 1969, in the parking lot of Blue Rock Springs Park in Vallejo. Mageau survived the attack, Ferrin was pronounced dead on arrival at Kaiser Foundation Hospital.
The second attack was carried out by the juvenile division detective Richard Hoffman.
In interviews, Hoffman continually feels the need to explain why he was out there and squinted and looks down as he gives his explanation.
They victims were followed and the driver left then came back and shot them.
According to Darlene (the female victim), his name was Richard. How many men named Richard were out there that night in a supposedly deserted area?!.
This Richard knew the victim and she said he was jealous and would kill her if she was with someone.
Hoffman's body language and demeanour when questioned about whether he knew Darlene is suspicious. He looks away to avoid eye contact with the interviewer.
He answers the question "did you know her" very quickly and appears to be angry that he was asked.
He was at the park minutes before and was still nearby when the call came through.
The survivor, Michael Mageau, thought the killer was a police officer.
The killer wore glasses as does Hoffman in the documentary.
Hoffman was with the survivor when the other cops arrived. He didn't go to the girl, who knew him. (Was he disturbed before finishing the job?).
The other cop on the scene says he couldn't make out anything that Darlene was saying!! What nothing? This is very suspicious.
Hoffman's comments on Darlene being undressed in the ambulance and his creepy comments about her bra. The phrase "I saw her" is interesting and accompanied by stress!.
Hoffman also says: "I was there to record anything that 'would' have been said" by her (not might have been said).
Case 3 (stabbing):
Bryan Calvin Hartnell, 20, and Cecelia Ann Shepard, 22: stabbed on September 27, 1969, at Lake Berryessa in Napa County. Hartnell survived eight stab wounds to the back, but Shepard died as a result of her injuries on September 29, 1969.
This case bears no similarities to case 2.
The detective at the lake side scene didn't report what Shepard said about his looks!! He didn't think it was important!!
The description doesn't match Hoffman, which is convenient and that description was brought up later after she died at which point it could not be corroborated.
The other cops were not allowed to talk to her before she died.
The crime scene by the lake was compromised as well as the clothing etc.
Finally, Hoffman's police report misspells until as 'untill' the very same misspelling appears in the famous Zodiac Letter.
I agree about creepy detective Richard Hoffman murdering Darkene. I don't think the murders are linked.
I
What I want to know is who was the genius that thought Ted Cruz was the Zodiac...two years before he was born!
Betty Lou Jensen was the younger sister of my mother's best friend, Melodie (who recently passed). Betty Lou would have been at my parents' wedding in 1964 and well known to my father, John. My father strongly resembled the police sketches, owned all of the weapons used in the murders, was a cipher fanatic, worked at Mare Island Naval Shipyard, went on frequent "hunting trips", was very familiar with EVERY murder location in the bay area but died of a brain tumor in 1972 when I was 6 years old (He would have been 29). I don't believe that my father could have done all of this alone - and certainly wasn't responsible for any of the murders after his death. His closest friend during that time was a man I only knew as "Uncle Pudge", a local butcher that my father had worked with before being employed on Mare Island. I don't know whatever happened to Pudge after my father died. I don't think I ever saw him again. I grew up with the Jensens. Verne (Betty Lou and Melodie's father) was a surrogate grandfather to me (as Melodie was my second mother). I still refer to Betty Lou's niece as "Sis". The Jensens are family. I reached out to the FBI with this information and to offer my DNA for testing purposes, but they never got back to me - go figure. I would really love some closure with regard to Betty Lou's murder which cast such a pall over my second family. As an aside, no one who knew my father that I've broached this subject with believes that he could have been capable of these killings (brain tumor or not) and stated that he was one of the sweetest, kindest men they ever knew and to this day, I pray that he wasn't involved. I suppose that's all I have to say about that. This presentation was really well done. Thanks for sharing.
Have you tried getting more information about this “uncle pudge”? I’m sure you have as your clearly dedicated but it just seems to me that besides waiting for the feds to get back to you that’s the only avenue to accrue more information. I mean even a full name or background would be helpful or if somehow he hasn’t passed perhaps law enforcement could even speak to him.
@@shaneiles5672 Not sure when, but Pudge died in the late 80's/early 90's.
You could probably set up an appointment with SFPD to explain all this to them.
Im very sorry for your loss. The zodiac murders has always baffled me. And i pray one day the truth comes out and the true identity of the killer is revealed. Ill never forget Bettys case. Thanks for sharing some info about betty. Its good that people see that the victims were people, and that they are worth more then jus a newspaper headline
Oh no, yo daddy IS THE ZODIAC😮😱😭
The Lake Berryessa scene in the movie was pretty brutal. I remember three people sitting in front of me at the theater got up and left.
It's a good movie, in and of itself... David Fincher is awesome... but, like Oliver Stone's JFK, it is based on a book of baseless gossip, rumor, and guesses, some of it being flat out bullshit. It isn't as full of shit as JFK, but it is not nearly as "we know this to be true" as anyone actually knows. Graysmith is the equivalent of "Mr X" in JFK, who was essentially Fletcher Prouty. There is a bunch of talking from the asses of those people that is taken as gospel.
I heard Bryan Hartnell say, after watching that scene, that it closely captured the feel of what happened that day.
JFK was extremely well researched
@@smallies7154 The JFK movie is largely a load of horseshit.
Excellent doc and done perfectly!!!!! Love the content and glad I found the channel. Keep up the great work!!!!
Thanks so much Andrew!
This is the one case I’d love to see solved in my lifetime. But I’m not optimistic. They never found Jack the Ripper either.
Too much time has passed yet again.
If there was any evidence in the DAs office that Manson family contained zodiac as a member they would’ve crucified all of them for it during the trial. Even if it wasn’t true.
Arthur Lee Allen was definitely not the Zodiac, however, I wouldn't doubt that he may have used the MO to actually commit a murder? I mean you never know.
"The Zodiac" wasn't one person, and ALA definitely did some - probably the majority - of the murders.
Leigh
Anyone could become the Zodiac, that is why he once stated any murder would be his.
@@12345678927164 never know
@@SkindoggiedogI agree with your assessment. He did have some help. But the sketch shows someone with hair. Do we know if he ever wore a toupee? That information could be huge in my opinion. I’m sure it’s possible he used that as a disguise along with the glasses.
Zodiak was likely multiple unconnected murderers and the letters were created by a cop or journalist. Thats why you can find really good suspects for some attacks but not all.
I have been a follower of this case since the 60’s when I was teen. I have never been convinced that the Zodiac was anybody other than Allen.
You're right.
They exhumed his body and took a DNA sample, it did not match
A lot of evidence points on him, but at the same time, some cracked code from the Zodiac shows a few orthographic mistakes that give me second thoughts.
@@Neomalthusiano Very Interesting. It's a bummer that Zodiac will always be a mystery. I think today he would have been caught. But back then.................
So you've always been convinced it's Allen? Double negatives are hard to follow.
I came home late one night and I went into the kitchen for a late night snack. When I did, someone hit me with a box of Total, followed by a box of Cap’n Crunch. I fought back, and he hit me with a box of cheerios before I finally got away. I’m lucky that I got away-I think he was a cereal killer.
Watch the zodiac's identity end up being revealed as Joseph James DeAngelo. 🤣
No, it was not him. His name was found in Z340 and Z408. I found it and law enforcement took me seriously. It is really him. He is nothing to write home about. Just wait till you see him, you are in for a shock.
Only five?.he's an Amatuer Now Jack the Ripper theres a.man with style and class 😂
Im not the zodiac but if I was I certainly wouldn't tell you
That line was super creepy in the movie. I still remember it
@@deankay800 it's a great movie...that guy also played that killer clown in American horror story...he's played a few different killers ...
I think Arthur Leigh Allen wanted people to think he was the Zodiac, even though he wasn't.
I think Don Cheney wanted people to think ALA was the Zodiac.
I think he’s still a good suspect.
Everybody knows the Zodiac was really Bill Dauterive
Paul Stine must have been through hell, not getting murdered, yeah that might have hurt a bit. But looking 50 when you're only 29? WTF happened to him?
I've seen a few other photos of him and he didn't look nearly as old as the typical photo we see.
I looked way older than I was, looking 40 at 25 and then, stopped ageing. Growing up in some places makes you age faster, in his case being a cab driver in la, in my case, in a soviet ruled part of Germany, at the time called DDR. Life is strange.
Zodiac was always considered average height, but Arthur Leigh Allen was tall. I think he just liked larping as the Zodiac
Officer Fouke said Allen was 100 pounds heavier than the man he encountered on Jackson Street that night.
I've always wondered why he killed the taxi driver Paul Stein. I imagine Paul somehow put together that his passenger was The Zodiac. I don't know how this could be possible, but why else would he shoot a lone taxi driver?? The Zodiac was some incel who enjoyed killing couples. Shooting one random lone man would not bring The Zodiac any pleasure.
Oh the horror! i'd be shedding cold sweat😰😰
He had been taunted that he only hunted women. The men survived his attacks. So it may have been to prove his manhood. Or he might have been visiting a stressor nearby, such as a condescending mother. And then lashed out at Stine. That was John Douglas theory.
My theory is that he was not as brave and devil-may-care as he made out. I think after his killings had become public knowledge he was worried about getting caught. I think that killing Stein was just a soft target to boost his numbers, talking very little risk. But he could easily have been caught that night, and I think that scared him into retirement.
The Zodiac was bipedal.
Finally a fact i can believe
It was one guy. The amount of leaps you have to make for there to be two people (one doing the killing and one the writing) is so astronomical they should have to give you Olympic gold for the hurdles.
Your style of narration is excellent man
Thanks broham
It's AI
Feel sorry for Mike Mageau (pronounced ma-joe) - who survived the horrific Zodiac ambush only to be called Mr Magoo for decades to come!
This happened at a time when police agencies, and federal authorities didn’t play well together. That’s about the only sophisticated aspect of the crime. The rest was luck and poor investigation and operations.
"Mike Magoo"? hahaha it's actually pronounced "Ma-jzo". Was this made with AI? The voiceover pronounces the same names several ways, like "Cheri" and "Sheri", and there's tons of little spelling mistakes in the written copy on-screen
Yep. It's AI, which is why it sounds fake classy
I didn't realize until now that he carved that message into a car door. To think he hung around that long...damn.
He didn't, he wrote it
@@theycantallbezodiac thank you for the clarification. Still quite a while to hang around after shooting someone.
@@studogable he stabbed them at Berryessa then it would have taken seconds to write on door
@@studogable why, it would only take seconds to sketch on a car.
When he got done shooting them he quickly carved the brief message with a sharp wood chisel
I suspect, obviously with no way to to prove it, that many serial killers have never been caught; therefore the thesis that they are "lone wolves" or teams more likely can't be verified either way!
Does anyone realize the similarities between the composite sketches of Zodiac and D.B. Cooper?
The Zodiac is a complete legend for dying with his secret. To have us guessing for ages.
Do you think we will ever know who he was?
@@LeeJohnson-zn9tl if he is actually dead, there's pretty much no way to find him now
@@LeeJohnson-zn9tl YES !!!!!
@@thelastmotel He was already found. You will hear soon.
Mooning the cops on the Z videotape rules and whether or not he is the Zodiac I think we should give him props for this.
Lol!
Props for what? Torturing animals? Molesting children? You need a life. One that isn't so sad.
The man was a convicted child molester. Don't give him props for anything!
And although in most police investigations you will at least find the killer's name in there somewhere. I believe the zodiac is actually an exception and he is someone that has remained above suspicion and that none of the suspects are a good match to the zodiac.
Mike “Magoo”?!?! That crashing sound you hear is your credibility flying out the window.
No one really knows
He marked a VHS "Z" so when the police viewed it it would be his ass. Classic.
I'm confused....Are you implying that Allen IS the Zodiac??? Because you did a video saying the David Fincher movie went with the wrong suspect.
Edward Wayne Edwards is The Zodiac killer. His Zodiac symbol displays his name ED no matter what angle it is displayed. Ed Edwards. He told the male victim the exact details of the prison he escaped from . Edward Edwards was in that prison. All the other details he gave the victim Ed Edwards had been. The photofit, the boot size, the leather sheath, the hood, him being in the area on the night of the killings, his cyphers had his name embedded within them his date of birth on the Halloween card. 14/06/1933. He never stopped killing until his death. He is a serial killer and can be linked to every Zodiac claimed murder through his being in the area when the murders took place. He appeared on a game show in a jacket covered in "Z" without doubt it is Edward Wayne Edwards his name is there in plain site. He killed other couples in lovers lanes. Look no further Edwards is the Zodiac €+D this is the closest I can get to showing you he embedded Ed Ed in his Zodiac symbol Edward Edwards.... Capital E capital D through the cross hairs gives Ed Ed....it is him and he tells you his name is in the letters.
1:54 Why is the girl’s name spelled “David”? Smh
I really don't think Arthur Lee Allen is the guy.
But he had a very long makeshift dildo in his trailer. He’s definitely the guy.
He for sure is not.
Yeah I don’t see why they kept on the road for so long
I don’t either, for various reasons. But even if you take away Graysmith’s sensationalized case and discount Cheney’s accusation, the coincidences with Allen are incredible. It’s so hard to believe it’s not him. Yet, it most likely isn’t.
I believe ruhtra eel nella is the Zodiac
I agree with everything you have said, he sounds like Americas version of jack the ripper in London as its never going to be solved
Would it be possible to find DNA In paul stine's cab?
It still sits In the SF PD basement as evidence to this day.
Your guess is as good as anyone elses. My guess? Yes it might be but I have feeling cops where not careful with not ruining dna back then.
@@jere.nurkka not to mention, it's a CAB. It wouldn't be surprising to find hundreds of different DNA profiles in a cab, given that several different people get in and out of a cab every single day..
@@sethstine4698 That's a good point
@@sethstine4698 But there is some story going around that Zodiac was in the front seat and Paul didn't let most people in the front. I don't know how they determined that but if that's true that would help a little bit.
While there have been times where serial killers have worked together...it is a rare occurrence. For my money, look no further than Dennis Rader. He had the opportunity to commit the crimes. He was in the area when they happened and there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence showing his guilt. Including the wing tipped shoes, writings, spelling errors, history of violence, and so much more. I implore anyone who is even remotely curious about the Zodiac case...look into it yourself. When I did the hair on my neck stood up.
Just so I'm clear, are you saying you think Dennis Rader is who you think the Zodiac could be?
@@jondorr4011
That is correct my friend. I understand if that sounds...odd but trust me when I say this, I (we) did not come to said conclusion lightly. There is such a wealth of evidence pointing towards Rader being the Zodiac Killer that it is very hard to ignore.
We know Dennis Rader was in California during the Zodiac killings. We know that he was serving in the US military and even had access to the type of shoes the killer wore. Rader was known to taunt the police by sending letters. What's interesting here is how these letters were written. If you compare the Zodiac's letters and BTK's many things stand out. Both abbreviated words very strangely (like Calif for California) and they used words like consternation which were not common back then. Their handwriting looks almost identical to the naked eye (at least mine).
My phone is about to die...if you're interested I have many more details to share with you. We also believe we can explain why the Zodiac changed his MO and became BTK.
@@Sinn0100 sure, I'm interested in what you have to say. Can't say I'll end up agreeing with you, but I'm definitely interested in what your evidence is.
@@jondorr4011
Hey, if you don't agree...that's okay too. Alright let's get into this thing...
As I was saying earlier, Rader did many things the Zodiac Killer did when he was active. Like for example taunting police with a very unique writing style. However, there is something else that is so strikingly errie it made the hair on my neck stand up when I heard it. Both the Zodiac and BTK did not kill all of their victims (thank God). Two people (Ferrin and Mageau) that survived the Zodiac's attack talked about how polite he was and that he basically "disarmed" them (in a sense) by telling them he just wanted to rob them. Now, it is very important to note that this information was not shared with the public or media at that time. This information did not make it to the public until roughly 2004 after the release of The Zodiac film.
Kevin Bright is the only known BTK victim that survived. During his interviews with law enforcement he talked about how BTK "disarmed" him by telling him that he was only there to rob him. He said BTK was very polite and acted as if he cared for his well-being. I believe the statement was "I am a wanted fugitive on the run from the law. I just want your car, money, and food. If you give me what I want I will leave" (I don't have my notes on me). The takeaway here is...the statement given by both serial killers was identical in every way. When you compound everything from the writing similarities, word usage, taunting police, access to the victims, long breaks between kills, and of course how they each treated their victims...there is something there.
Addendum- My phone isn't the greatest so I am going to break up my response. In my next post I will give you our theory on why The Zodiac would change his MO...
@@jondorr4011
Now, why would The Zodiac change the way he kills?
The reason is geographical in nature. You see, the Dennis Rader's stint with the military was up and he had nowhere to go but home. Now, Rader was very well known in Kansas making it very hard for him to kill out in the open as he had in Northern California. This is why he began attacking people in their homes but I digress...
The one thing that bothers me is...the Otero Family. If we are to believe the status quo Dennis Rader chose and took down an entire family in broad daylight without anyone catching on. There is no way his "first attack" was first, no way. There are others of that I can guarantee....
Addendum- There is so much going on with these two cases that it is hard for me to believe they are not connected. If you're interested there is a book written by former detective Kimberly McGath that really paints a believable case. Seriously, check it out man. :)
What I don’t understand is that one of his victims was in the car with him, before she escaped. She would have had a very good look at him. Why did no one recognise the description she gave ? Surely there would have been gas stations, shops, bars who would have recognised her description.
how do people just skip over what the people who was there like mike mageau said his name was Richard
I don't have to watch the video. I know for a FACT that the Zodiac killer was the Professor from Gilligan's Island.
one of the interesting aspect of zodiac killer mystery is Mike Mageau name pronounciation, it's always different from one video to other video
Michael Ma- Joe is the pronunciation.
A Black guy did it,but they won't say it cause it's not PC.
Aye. The police HATE accusing black people of stuff. 🙄
Anyone else see the resemblance between the sketches of the zodiac and db copper
Here’s my question!
With the advancement in hereditary DNA testing why don’t they send the envelopes and watch to see if they can get a hit.
I’m sure they’ll find DNA mixed with the stamp glue, or better yet the watch.
Because no matter how tight watch seals are there’s always DNA material working it’s way inside the case.
Nah fam that’s inconclusive too much time has passed
too many other people have touched those things.
I think Gary Poste is actually a very promising candidate for the Zodiac. As for JTR, there is a very compelling case for Charles Lechmere.
Poste is a terrible suspect
I'm 85 years old and still alive. I'm the Zodiac and I also was DB Cooper
@@theycantallbezodiac no, ALA is the worst suspect
@@user-ns9qt3os2i and yet he remains at the top of law enforcement list
@@jamesellis701 maybe think of the victims and their families before becoming an internet troll
I hate this case because it always seems like several men fit the profile. They tick all the boxes and it makes it seem like that isn’t a difficult feat.
We better get this answer (among others) when we die lol
I thought the Zodiac had hair. Was Arthur wearing a toupee?
Nope it was just more than one killer.
Richard Gaikowski has the most compelling case compared to the top 3 in the video.
Its not him.
@@kathykline7202 it was your mom
It's funny how we still make rock stars out of these first batch of 70's serial killers when every day there's killers caught with higher body counts, that eat people, communicate with the press, are charming and hansom like Bundy, you name it.
You'd think people would want to hear about something new (boy I do) but I guess in this instance it pays to be the first.
It's interesting with these cases, Zodiac, Jack the Ripper, Black Dahlia etc, you'd think the evidence would only point to one suspect but there's always compelling evidence that points to four or five. Strange! 🤔
Probably deliberate by someone
Not really. There are violent offenders everywhere all the time, and they're always good suspects simply by existing in the area of a violent crime.
As I start watching I have to say I'm praying this theory takes into fact the killer's use of radian angles. When it comes to narrowing the field or just naming the killer outright, the radian angle thing is massive.
Agreed wholeheartedly. Such a unique word...radians. Vector is the same.
@@kenanacampora What are radian angles?
He knew radian angles from cutting solar panels.
@@kathykline7202 We now know that the Zodiac was in fact Ted Cruz's father.......Which is why Ted rebelled so hard and became the lead singer of Stryper.
Can't wait to watch I love all your videos! The long form is really great.
Thanks so much 😊
My gut is telling me its ross Sullivan, soon as I saw his pic i got strong feeling its him 🤔
It's really too bad this was never resolved. It's been farrrrr too long now to know anything with absolute certainty.
It was resolved. You have not been told. I dont think anyone in the general public knows.
If they could find the golden state killer five years ago (who was operating at the same time as the Zodiac) then they could find the Zodiac.
there isn't a full DNA profile on the zodiac killer
@@ricardolozano5356 why is the zodiac killer so evil
@Nathaniel he's alot like the son of sam
@@ricardolozano5356 I don't get what you mean
@@nathaniel6526 He's not when you compare him to other killers. Only what, 5 victims? All were killed by Gunshot wounds. Whereas Jeffrey Dahmer had like 17 victims and would rape them while torturing them. The Zodiac Killer is so infamous because of the cryptic messages, and the mystery is unsolved some 50+ years later. The reality of the zodiac is IF they are still alive, they are well past 85 years old, and probably long dead and gone. This means the killings will likely remain unsolved forever unless there is a major piece of evidence that comes to the surface.
Too much time has passed by and like other cases like Jack The Ripper, the zodiac killer will be never be 100% known. And unless Arthur Leigh Allen had a personal secretary who was down for being an accomplice for his crimes and licked his letter envelopes, it can't be Allen. I'll admit, Allen was a creepy guy and he was not a good person it seems from what info is available. But, I don't think he had the nerve to do the murders as he was a very reserved guy. Zodiac was very braggadocious and would likely be a more brash kinda guy. The Code Breakers claim that DNA confirms Gary Francis Poste was the Zodiac killer. I'd believe him, Lawrence Kane or others like Ross Sullivan. Sullivan in particular had many similarities to the police sketch and he was closer to having more consistencies with what known info there is on the killer.
William McDuff Andrew is the zodiac killer
@Richie Harrison they didn't, they had no evidence
Sullivan was way too big, Kane was a small time crook with a distinctive Brooklyn accent
@Richie Harrison it was in 2021 I do believe when the Case Breakers said Poste was the Zodiac.
@@biozio186 in the many suspects proposed, I've never heard of William McDuff Andrew.
Have you ever seen Ted Cruz and the Zodiac in the same room? Case closed.
I don't think Sanfranciso police could've found this guy if they nuked the city!
Most likely it was Arthur Leigh Allen. He wasn't ruled out as Zodiac only as the person who licked the stamps on the letters. It was well known that ALA hated the taste of glue and did NOT lick his own stamps which is why they tested Don Cheney as well because he could have licked the stamps not knowing where the letters were going. He could still have had another person or persons licking the stamps for him who were unsuspecting of him being Zodiac. Too much lines up well with ALA to not be Zodiac.
What about him being nearly a foot taller than the victims described?
@@MarxMan0o Allen was 6 feet tall. Hartnell describes Z as 5’8” to 6’ tall. Hartnell had the longest look at him. The rest of the witnesses/ survivors had a flash and had things distorting Z’s height. ALA clearly falls within the range Hartnell gives. Not sure where you’re getting a foot taller than described, this is categorically wrong.
I thought the prints they found didn't match Allen's.
I’m going with Gary Poste.
Do we know if he ever wore a toupee? It could have been part of his disguise. I wish we knew that information.
Gikowski makes sense as the Zodiac. He was a newspaperman and the Zodiac symbol is a registration mark every four-color printer would know
Interesting theory
Gaikowski was a friendly counterculture type. Zodiac's sardonic use of hippie expressions tells me he was hostile to the counterculture.
if theres two people, one carrying a polish name, thats the guy. If its 100 people, one is carrying a polish name, thats the guy.
@@norbertk9595 could be just to Cover up, u can fake ur behaviour lol
I always thought it was likely Gikowski.
I have been pouring over all the info lately, and the deeper I go, the more convoluted it gets. Its almost to the point that the whole thing is comical. Everyone has a suspect they are 100% is the one, but not a single one has any hard evidence pointing at them. Even the letters that link all of this are not even consistent enough to make a case. There are a few things in the comments that make sense, multiple people and someone in law enforcement. The funny thing is its just as up in the air as it was in 1970.
When I clicked this video I planned to comment “nuh, we know it’s Ted Cruze” not thinking you would even mention it 😂
It was two different people, and they did not know each other.
Seemed too far-out to believe at the time, and a lot still don't think it possible, but it fits everything we know.
Exactly. Every time i read something or watch something on this I always leave thinking there were more than one and they weren’t connected.
That's probably why it's the perfect crime. Alibi for a given crime or 2, so they couldn't have done "all" of them. DNA doesn't match. Etc, etc. Nobody checks all the boxes because it's more than 1 person.
Couldn't you just run a little water over a stamp? Or dip it in water? You wouldn't necessarily have to "lick" it, would you?
Yes. That was uncommon then, though.
@@studogable what? where's your proof of that claim?
@@trippmoore life experience. Licked a lot of stamps back in the day. Some businesses had this little porcelain wheel they used if they didn't feel like licking, but I never saw one in a private residence. Just using the sink would have been problematic - too easy to wash ALL the glue off.
Yes, things were weird back then. Not gonna lie.