Dr. Joshua Coleman and How Parents Can Heal or Prevent Estrangement | Episode 166
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- Опубликовано: 30 май 2024
- In this episode, Sasha and Stella delve into the intricate world of family estrangement with psychologist and author, Dr. Joshua Coleman. Coleman's insights highlight the complexity and emotional strain of estrangement, emphasizing empathy, responsibility, and strategic communication as essential tools for parents navigating these challenging dynamics. This episode offers valuable insights and practical strategies for families coping with the heartache of alienation.
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Great episode. A few years back, I had the opportunity to speak with Dr Coleman and implement a Letter of Amends and received my first reconciliation with my young adult child. However, it was not to last and reconnection has been intermittent.
Gender ideology adds a unique layer even to estrangement, and like my daughter, many children want ideological adherence from the parent and aren’t ready for the cognitive and emotional maturity required for nuanced reconnection with a parent who holds a differing worldview.
How’s that for a run on sentence?
😏😂
Bon Jovi documentary 🤘🏻
In the 90s I went down this path with my parents under the influence of a well meaning but misguided therapist. Children need to be realistic about how their parents are likely to respond to this and whether they are capable of responding at all, which I think is what the child is looking for, a response that will make them feel seen, heard, acknowledged etc. My parents responded with a mute puzzled acceptance and never forgave me. I wanted them to fight for me, but they just weren't interested, they had 6 other kids and a host of grandchildren to think about and care about. If i hadn't done this I still would have suffered fairly limited disinterested parents but at least they wouldn't have hated me. As usual in the main this sort of good advice from Joshua really only benefits those able to think about it and in the main are likely to have been thoughtful parents to begin with.
this sounds so familiar. My parents had a lot of children and numerous grandchildren, so I never had any leverage to attempt cut-off. They were flawed. I am flawed. ... humans are flawed. Live & Love.
I was an audio-only listener up until very recently. Before I saw what you guys looked like, I imagined Stella having long black hair and looking kind of like Siouxsie Sioux. I don't know why. I am a fan of Siouxsie though so it's a compliment coming from me haha
I assumed my young adult daughter was getting these ideas from social media, but had no idea there was a whole movement online telling them No Contact (& misdiagnosing their parents as narcissists), even for non gender issues.
There is a lot of social pressure to cut off your parents now. My mom was very verbally abusive to me (and everyone else in our family) and when i would mention it people's first comment was that i should cut off contact and it was like weird to them that i didnt. She was a deeply troubled and traumatized person and no it's not right that she took it out on everyone around her but i grew to understand that behavior was not about me, it was about her unresolved childhood trauma. i still wanted a relationship with her so i had a lot of boundaries in place to make that work (and for anyone who doesn't understand how boundaries work, boundaries are for you, not the other person - you don't go around telling people this is my boundary and if you cross it I'm going to punish you, that's not how healthy boundaries work and if you do that you are asking for drama. You say to yourself this is what I'm going to do to protect myself and if the other person notices and asks you why you're doing xyz then you can explain it (gently)...). Anyway when i was a kid i dreamed of my mom apologizing, acknowledging all the pain she caused me (i even tried family therapy with her but it only made things worse), so eventually i realized that was never going to happen and releasing that allowed me to love her as she was, even though i would no longer tolerate her bad behavior, which is like what dr coleman was saying about accepting the kind of relationship the other person is able to give, opposed to the fantasy or ideal relationship you think it should be. (I'm a millennial btw)
Like you, I maintained contact with my very damaged and abusive mother. I recognised in some way when I was very young that there was something very wrong with her and vowed to myself I'd never treat her as she treated me. I stayed in contact with her and took care of her needs through to the end. As far as she could, she did acknowledge my effort to help her and take care of her just before she died. She could never truly recognise or apologise sincerely for her behaviour and I accepted this was the reality, though it took me many years to do so.
Your comment is insightful, and shows that you have done a lot of reflection and introspection. I wish our daughter was as open hearted as you are. I’m convinced that these patterns are generational, like a curse, and we break them by restoring what we can and refusing to perpetrate or participate in the pattern further.
I’m both an estranged daughter and an estranged mother. My father stopped speaking to me 30 years ago; and my daughter, just last year. She lacks the will to communicate honestly nor to attempt problem solving or conflict resolution. Her father and I are heartbroken, but trying to go on with our lives without her.
Estrangement is a cruel and torturous way to punish kind and loving parents who simply don’t subscribe to the latest gender ideology. And karma is not kind to the cruel.
An insightful, mature, and compassionate way to love your mother in spite of her flaws.
My kids were swallowed up by the Ayahuasca cult masquerading as a legitimate Church where they have been conditioned to preach that their drugs are the spiritual drugs there is no reaching them the lawyer who helped legalize drugs in Oregon of course was a New York divorce attorney who stole his son from his loving mother is how he gets his jollies a Serial sexual predator the Oregon Bar Association louds as a hero he has a house on the hill where antifa can come and go taking directions from him and who they are to put the hit on I was surrounded by about 20 of them at my local grocery store sitting on a bench outside waiting for a friend to get off work called every name in the book told not to come out of my house and at the same time lawyers were trying to evict me from my own home weaponizing eviction of older women is a thing and doesn't the government participate yes it does
Nobody has to stay in abusive relations with family because it physical or sa. You’re out of your mind. Next
Some young people caught up in gender often believe (and are advised to believe that) their parents are abusive because the parents believe that taking hormones or a double mastectomy or genital surgery is a bad idea for their young person (that is, that likely risks outweigh likely benefits). And they have listened to the young person and did their research and learned that the young person was misinformed ("there is no other way to be happy"[false], "the regret rate is tiny" [false], "it's no big deal or danger to my health or future" [false]).
Where do you start? (I'm sorry for telling you that the benefit you were promised hasn't been seen in studies, you can't count on it in any way beyond a possible short term effect. That the regret rate hasn't been measured but appears to be significant, they aren't checking. It has a huge effect on your health as the hormones and surgery are long term stressors on your body, but again, the MDs haven't been keeping track, but the medical reports of adverse outcomes keep piling up.)
I was one such adult child who needed to get my mother’s voice out of my head. She had borderline personality disorder, however, and it was very, VERY difficult for me and my sister to individuate in a healthy way. Her death a few years back left us with mixed feelings. Sure, her death was sad, but on the other hand the ever present, ever demanding voice was gone. It was often said to me that, as she was dying, that I should get a recording of her voice because I would miss it one day. Frankly, and I feel bad for saying this, I still do t feel so bad for the silence.
I am in year 5, and proud that I have regained myself despite the task of managing grief all the time. My son changed dramatically, influenced by a controlling wife. Their complaints are petty and frankly absurd.
I just learned this morning that my 19yr old cousin just had a double mastectomy, and is on the road to testosterone. 😭
I’m terrified her parents will shut me out, they are very supportive and I’m worried they will cut off contact with me because I’m not buying trans ideology.
My father disowned me when I came out as gay. Well, he said I wasn't his son, that I should change my name, and that he wanted a DNA test and that sort of thing. So I didn't bother talking to him for a while. Does that mean I "cut ties" with him?
When he started talking to me again, about ten years later, I immediately started talking with him again. But it seemed to me he needed to make the first move. People would often tell me I was being selfish for not trying to repair the relationship when I wasn't the one who broke it up on the first place, which I found very annoying. It was on me to reach out to him, rather than on him to apologize.
We now have a cordial, but not close or warm, relationship. He has never apologized.
Such a helpful video. I am an alienated mother. i have read and do believe whether alienated or estranged, mothers are bonded to their children through the chemicals they shared before birth. It’s not so easy to just let go. Trust me, I wish it was.
For anyone interested in this topic I highly recommend Trish Wood Is Critical podcast from February 2 2024. The episode is called Ann Bauer: Families Are Not Alright.
Can't believe Stella visits Mum's net. I suppose she has to keep up to speed on developments.
Is it still estrangement when your adult daughter refuses to see you in person, but responds to text messages and will call now and again? My daughter won’t allow me or her father to ever visit her, but she calls each week. She only talks about how her job is going, and never asks about her brother or her father. Like calling me is a duty to excuse never seeing us.
That was my daughter, now she is full no contact for the last two years. It seems I was willing to take any attention from her before and walked on eggshells rather than tell her the truth and risk losing her.
❤🇬🇧
Can you get investigative journalist, Jennifer Bilek on the show?? That'd be really interesting!!
Hm, interesting interview. My mother cut off contact with her parents maybe a decade years ago in a way I (Millennial) found rather unfair and I always felt in the middle until both of my grandparents had died. And then to this day I feel angry at her for this and for... i don't know, making it somehow like I can't properly grieve or I have to grieve in secret, because to this day she talks badly about them and if I say anything in their favor or dare to say that I loved them, it's like I am a traitor. And I thought at least after they died it would be over, but now her resentment goes to my aunt, so I have another "secret" and stuck-in-the-middle relationship. So it's not just the younger generation...
But something you guys haven't really touched on, and I wonder if that isn't so much the case when it's Millennials or Gen-Z, but I found that one of the biggest reasons my mother cut them out of her life wasn't really about what they were doing, but because of her own shame. I think we (and I definitely include myself in this) can see ourselves reflected quite harshly in our parents who really know us. And if you don't want someone to really know you because you are ashamed, or deep down you know you are stuck or on the wrong path and you don't know how to get out of it and how to become a person you can be proud of, and you've already figured out that your parents can't help you with that, that means they are just watching it - and you imagine their disappointment or apathy or sadness, and that can feel deeply uncomfortable. And I felt like that had much more to do with the whole thing than any real actions my grandparent had taken, even though, of course they weren't perfect.
This is hugely insightful.
Your comment is so insightful!
Fascinated to hear about this important topic from this very qualified guest. I'll be listening along as I cook breakfast for my children!
What a spiteful comment.
Josh is a beautiful human being.. literally saving parents lives from all over the world every day.
He gives so much time for free.
He genuinely cares for us all.
I've read and listened to almost everything he's done.. I'm now reconciled using his advice and techniques.. it took years but against all odds,in way, it worked as I applied it all exactly as he advises. He's a great guy so kind and supportive.
Coleman’s contempt of adult children is clear
You may not be reading this comment correctly....if you are then I dissagree. Dr. Coleman is very kind in offering free advice and support for those suffering.
@@lynnmarie1943 Joshua Coleman spreads misinformation about estrangement and that is neither kind or professional
I'm reconnected with my kids .. Joshua Colemans advice support and information is why and how.
@@Nannie-jx2px the good doesn’t make up for the bad.
Thank you for this discussion. It really does highlight the difference between the previous understanding and knowledge about Estrangement and then adding in the pit of narcissism that is gender ideology. Our children reinvent their history, literally making up abuse and trauma where none existed, so they know we are lying when we try to apologise, because there is nothing to apologise for, at least not on the scale that they invented. So by trying to acknowledge their hurt we are performing and for most of us NOT lying to our children is the main reason they estranged from us, we wouldn't celebrate the Emperors New Clothes.
@@Ddddddddd885 Don't call it nonsense just because you don't get it. You're only making yourself look the fool.
Or narcissistic parents refuse to acknowledge or don't remember what they did. Their apology is a lie because their narcissism drives them into a total lack of accountability. Like. Seriously.
You may not agree with what they remember, but that is besides the point. If you actually love your children you want to hear from them and how they feel. There is something wrong, that's what you should concentrate on - not defending yourself at all costs.
@@hardpathpoet2859 Or you're an idiot that has no clue what they're talking about and seriously thinks that they have anything of worth to add to this discussion. Like. Seriously. Literally, I mean. 🙄
@@kimberlyf4888 You don't have a clue what you're talking about. There is nothing to defend, because what they are saying is a fiction. Our children are annoyed that we don't believe that men can become women and women can become men. Reality isn't abusive, supporting their delusion is.
Filial duty has evaoprated due to lack of maternal dyadic care.
Interesting podcast. If a parent truly has cluster b personality disorder, it's actually impossible to have a HEALTHY relationship with them. Its utter futility. I'm not sure our kids know what cluster b actually is. I'd never want my confused daughter to have anything to do with cluster b, even if she thought it was me.
Also some adult children can have cluster b pd. It is heartbreaking to see how some older parents are abused😢
I don’t find Josh’s approach appropriate when you are dealing with an adultified, psychologically abused child who has been placed in a position of power over their rejected parent. Children, teens and young adults who have been alienated by a pathological parent against their loving healthy parent (aka parental alienation) is a different kettle of fish.
These parents are being abused - I agree with Stella O’Malley that the amends letter can be inauthentic and won’t be successfully and in fact place the parent in a worse position as they are being threatened
I think my child wants me to admit that my blind spot is that I don't agree with trans ideology... That is where my defect lies...bc i cannot agree. I can accept its the solution hes found to make himself feel better but I see it as an escape , he doesnt want to face reality and he thinks because i reject his ideology around where he gets his new identity from I reject him.
This movement works like a cult. Love bombing, peer pressure, control, and a demand that they cancel those who disagree. Pretty terrible stuff.
I don’t find Josh’s approach appropriate when you are dealing with an adultified, psychologically abused child who has been placed in a position of power over their rejected parent. Children, teens and young adults who have been alienated by a pathological parent against their loving healthy parent (aka parental alienation) is a different kettle of fish.
These parents are being abused - I agree with Stella O’Malley that the amends letter can be inauthentic and dangerous
Joshua Coleman was with Focus on the Family, which was a staunchly Christian conservative group started by Chuck Colson (Nixon’s Watergate dirty trickster). Colson found Jesus in the slammer, so FotF was hard core Republican moral-majority type stuff. FotF supported conversion therapy and staying in abusive marriages, because the bible said.
Coleman distanced himself from conversion therapy, but never apologised for the harm he did.
Yes thank you for pointing this out and speaking up. Coleman is not an expert on estrangement. He spreads propaganda about estrangement that is misleading and dangerous. He should be reported to the APA immediately
Coleman creates echo chambers for abusers. Sad
Exactly
Dr. Coleman's advice really is of no use to the typical parents of Trans kids who listen to Stella and Sasha. His methods require the parent acknowledging wrongdoing and these parents won't even accept that their estranged kids have much happier, healthier and fuller lives post-transition, let alone that denying their identity and socially ostracizing them as minors was abusive behaviour resulting in permanent physical and psychological damage that they'll likely be dealing with the consequences of for the rest of their lives. Maybe just accept your kids as they are from the moment they have the courage to speak up for themselves and they won't become estranged the moment they become independent.
😂
Well said. Agreed
There's always a honeymoon period post-transition, where they feel relief at having done the thing that they were told would make them happy. But it doesn't last. All the actual reasons for their unhappiness are still there. And they've now got a messed up body on top of it.
They then have a choice. Admit that they made a mistake and start the long hard road to healing and self-realisation; or dig their heels in and continue to delude themselves because, to them, it's better than accepting that their worldview was flawed.
@@siobhannoble8545 Is that opinion backed up by any evidence from peer reviewed medical studies? Because long term studies consistently show a detransition rate of 1-2%. There’s ZERO evidence for the mental health and quality of life benefits of medical transition being transitory.
I think the more abusive action from parents would be to feed into their child's delusion, rather than helping them to navigate the distress that is causing them to deny themselves and believe that changing gender will solve this distress.
In my day parents would bash their kids into cis het normativity.