True Detective Season 2 Retrospective
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- Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2024
- I rewatched Season 2 of True Detective after the crushing disappointment of Night Country. It's far from perfect, but it's a genuine attempt to craft a detective show about corporate and political corruption that captures the weird mood and poetic darkness of the series. I liked it a lot more this time around, warts and all. So I ramble about all that.
Appreciate all of you! Thanks for subscribing and commenting and being awesome!
It’s (season 2) convoluted like The Big Nowhere, by James Ellroy. I think the creator mentioned he was inspired by it for season 2, plus having a deadline pushed it in that direction, it seems. I liked season 2.
The sex party doesn’t allude to the sex and murder conspiracy of season 1, but it draws a nice parallel that asks the season 1 viewer to pay attention, but not in the ham fisted way season 4 did.
Plus, the crooked spiral in season 1 is taken from real world pedo rings, and used by the killer. Season 4 used it, but was it saying that the indigenous women were part of the same skin trade? Such bad writing.
Season 2 is very different, convoluted and messy, but leaps and bounds better than whatever season 4 was.
I subscribed to your channel a few weeks ago and have appreciated your take on the show.
PS: there is a city in LA county that functions like the city in season 2. Vernon, CA, with a population of 112 in 2010. Meat packing plants and warehouses.
I’m really glad you did this!
This was great, man! Appreciate your work and your highlighting that while S2 was different, it had many things in common with S1 still. It felt like True Detective in a way Night Country could only dream of.
It also had Kelly Reilly. 🙃
Last but not least, I think it was super ballsy of Nic P to do something so different to S1. I actually think S3 was similar in that respect, with the Rust and Marty mentions ultimately turning out to be a red herring. And subverting expectations done right imo.
I had to do a palette cleanse as well and re-watched Season One, which I hadn't seen since I watched it twice as soon as it came out. The dialog is just so dense and meaningful, and it doesn't insult the viewer's intelligence. I'm just angry at season four - your reviews kept me sane, even though I gave up after episode four I kept watching your reviews.
I also just finished another show from last year that tackled the subject of missing/murdered indigenous women in Alaska that was done SO much better than TD:S04 - Alaska Daily, with Hillary Swank. Obviously it wasn't as dark as TD, but the writing was crisp throughout, the tertiary characters seemed way more fleshed out, and it was just a much more solid show from start to finish. Only eleven episodes, definitely worth a watch if you haven't seen it.
@@AaronClow heard about this one. I'll add it to the list!
I watched 1 and 2 back to back in preparation for 4. I'm a unique case in that I was defending the character-study of S2 back when it was airing and people were falling off because they wanted the exact same flavor as S1. The performances are what makes this season as heart-wrenching as it is. You believe every moment. The mystery is really tough to follow even if you are on your second viewing, but the locations and tension are what makes this season such a beautiful piece of art.
Yes! I remember being lukewarm on it the first time I watched it. But I always appreciated the character work. Think Taylor Kitch’s character is particularly underrated.
My girlfriend rolled her eyes at vince Vaughns monologues. But I love his movies and still believe he has it in him.l if he ever wanted to take another shot at drama
I'm chalking Vaughn standing out more to having less experience with the genre. Season 1 dialogue would have stood out more if the acting didn't carry so damn hard with the presentation of our leads. (Not a diss)
@@vincenta8652 I dunno if it was intentional, but I always assumed that Vaughn was meant to depict a character that was out of place. I thought he was pretty convincing as a violent, street criminal but it seemed like the show wanted him to appear to be out of place as an upper class gangster. None of the rich people respected him and they were all planning on cutting him out... including his own guy. Casper was in the process of stealing his money from the land deal and the Russian was gonna steal his business.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seemed like Vaughn was intentionally cast in order to play the role of a man that was unsuccessfully trying to fake it until making it, in the world of the elites and white collar crime.
It was entertaining, but it didn't do anything that hundreds of other (better) cop shows haven't done in the past. NYPD Blue already did the self-destructive/alcoholic/divorced cop and traumatized female detective angle. The Shield and Southland both touched on corrupt bureaucracies and cops struggling with their sexuality. The Wire did the gangster with a heart of gold.
S1 was unapologetically original while S2 was your run of the mill procedural cop drama.
@@franknb7827 I mean Erik’s video you’re commenting on outlined a few ways S2 wasn’t your run of the mill cop procedural/drama, but sure.
I'm rewatching season 3 and after two episodes, it's clearly on a different level than Night Country.
Maybe Lopez did Pizzolatto a favor and helped people have a greater appreciation his work in seasons 2 and 3.
I also thought season three was very good.
Just wanted to say thank you thank you thank you for being a comforting voice of reason in the wake of night country. I think a lot of us have been gaslit by the media and critics, but you’ve always been there to tell it exactly how it is. I’m glad to see you revisiting season 2 as I did the same in the run-up to night country and, honestly, though I agree with your criticisms (and those of others and even myself on the first viewing!) I think it’s a messy masterpiece.
I also think David chase was right in his recent comments, that this is the end of the golden age of tv, and we won’t ever get anything like TD seasons 1 and 2 in a very long time. :(
Thanks! And thanks for the reminder to go read his comments. Saw a headline but didn't click.
The way characters speak is not unlike people speak in Cormack McCarthy or even just a Coen Brothers movie. The poetic dialogue is part of the style of True Detective that I think is an essential piece of its DNA
I think this take is basically right - definitely suffers from being convoluted. I think the style alone carries it anyways, lots of good moments, dialogue is a lot of fun, characters are great, music is excellent, bird mask villain is a striking image... It has more going right for it than wrong. It's good and vindicating to see people re-evaluating this season and having a more positive but balanced view of it. This night country mess is a good opportunity for us to reflect on the things we've taken for granted :)
Season 4 has made Season 2 look like a masterpiece. I want to profusely apologize for sh 11ttting all over Season 2. My sincerest apologies
Accepted . Same said for s3..😴
Season 2 is a feast of LA noir tropes, so the convoluted plot is kinda mandatory like in The Big Sleep or Chinatown.
Agreed, throw in James Elroy’s The Big Nowhere as well!
Season 2 was The Big Nowhere…wish someone would adapt Big Nowhere, LA Confidential and White Jazz as a series.
Idk about mandatory. I just rewatched it, and it felt like Nic didn't have enough time to polish the season.
@@jamesstanton2012That's one of My favorite books. That's why I like this season so much.
Thank you! This is for noir heads.. main stream weren't ready. Note the poster in the background ... bring me the head of Alfredo...
Any season is better than Night Country, easily.
“Perhaps I had treated you too harshly.”
I loved S2 when it aired. It's the Dark Knight Rises to S1's Dark Knight, in the sense that *nothing* was going to match or top what preceded, and it was foolish on the viewer's part to expect otherwise. Nic at least knew to try something different, but his style and aesthetic are all there. It helps that I'm a massive Colin Farrell fan and have always found him to be a criminally underrated actor since going off the beaten path around 2005. And Lera Lynn's soundtrack is amazing. If this show occurred in a vacuum, it would've been praised quite a lot. It just so happened to follow the greatest anthology season of all time. Still better than 99% of current media.
huh that's actually a really interesting observation
And to add to this thought-- if Night Country occurred in a vacuum, literally none of us would be talking about it right now. It would have left no impression or impact on its own. The only relevance it will ever have is the True Detective branding.
@@TheAltarOfKez Sad thing is, had it been a standalone piece (and devoid of the overt propaganda), I'd have enjoyed it for what it was. It should've just leaned into the supernatural element and gone full X-Files, because the "reality" presented in the show is even more farfetched than ghosts.
I'm glad people enjoy it.
The Dark Knight Rises is pretty thick praise though.
Personally I would say it's somewhere in an Alien 3 (the assembly cut) area of quality. There is a lot of good, people need to check their expectations at the door, and appreciate the work for what it is (as opposed to participating in this power struggle of wishing it were something else). Its thematic, its atmospheric, and the artistry and love of the craft is there.
So Season 2: Season 2 wasn't bad and is overly hated.
6.5/10 area - worth watching! Particulary if you're a fan of the genre.
Great acting.
Great atmosphere.
Respect it for going somewhere totally different and approaching a totally different type of crime.
An intriguing mystery was set up with lots of moving parts.
Respect the risks and kind of going a "we lost" route with it.
"Praised a lot in a vacuum" I disagree there too.
Critics would probably still call it convoluted and grim (though I can definitely see them not being as harsh).
MOST of its flaws are in storytelling, not story.
The audience needs to remember why this person is important, who this person is, and so forth in order to connect the dots (and some of the most important people we don't actually see, which is very unfortunate).
I think it would be received worlds better if Cary Joji Fukunaga directed (I think he's cancelled now?). Or Nic had much more time. We'd know who Tascha is. We'd know the conspirators are like the back of our hand.
SPOILERS
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But as for the story itself...? 1). You don't care about finding Caspere's killer because he's part of the problem. Good riddance, dude.
2). Caspere's killers are pretty random and only tangentially related to the greater narrative. The eye-burning was pretty... cultish / spooky for a revenge killing. It just doesn't fit very well as the answer to the central mystery.
3). Four leads is a lot for an eight-episode series and they don't mesh very well. I'm not sure if there's an easy fix for this.
Season 2 is outstanding. Always has been. People just wanted a copy of Season 1 and they got something quite different.
What season 2 did well is give you a feel of isolation in a big city. Michael Mann was always great at doing that. Watch Heat and you will see the similarities. If Pizzalatto had another year to write the story it would have been so much better. Not bad for a rushed job. I agree with you on the soundtrack. The score itself is hypnotic. In episode 7 there is a long stare down between Ray and Annie with that ominous music playing. Awesome scene. T Bone Burnette is the man.
I love it from the get-go. It is far more complex and it takes longer to get, but still. I thought that Vince Vaughn proved himself in this season just like Matthew McConaughey
did in the first. Though, I get your point about the detective work.
I would die to listen to you interview Nic Pizzolatto
Hey ... you never know
I'd like to see a six hour video of them watching, critiquing, and laughing at season four.
*Ian McDiarmid voice* Do it 😈 ⚡️
Season 2: "I welcome judgement" 😎
Issa Slowpez: “judgement is toxic and problematic”
Season 2 has some great scenes. The music is fantastic I agree.
When I rewatched season 3, there were certain scenes that blew me away. Does not get its due at all. Please do a season 3 rewatch! It’s so damn good
I second the S3 rewatch/review. Tbh, I love all 3 seasons equally.
I really need to rewatch S2 again.
Glad you put a spotlight on this season’s soundtrack. It’s how I found artists like Lera Lynn and Alexandra Savior, who I still listen to to this day.
Thanks T-Bone and Nic P!
I recently watched all five seasons of Boardwalk Empire and there’s so many storylines and great characters but the editing keeps everything tight and running seamlessly; that’s what True Detective season two needed.
as someone who enjoyed season 2 more than the average viewer, the only redeeming aspect of season 4 is that it'll make people appreciate season 2 way more.
Watched S2 when it came out, gave up after a couple of episodes. Watched in its entirety recently. Has its flaws but overall it’s fantastic. Will be viewing again.
"forget it Erik, it's Chinatown"
Episodes 4-6 are total bangers. Good as it gets.
Season 2 just needed a bit more woodshedding. You can tell he was on the right track trying to recreate a Chinatown-like narrative in LA. He had the ingredients. It just needed to cook a little longer.
I like season 2. Maybe a bit messy with too much going on, maybe Vaughn was not best cast - but overall the season was great. The tragic/heroic character in Velcoro especially in his relationship with his son is strong. It's not season 1, but that does not make season 2 bad.
Season 2 of True Detective is one my favorite seasons of TV of all time. I hate the way people talk about it, not because they didn’t like it, I understand the complaints, but because most people have no idea or inclination of what it’s actually about.
This is not a straight forward cop series. It’s actually an odyssey through the afterlife of 4 people who don’t know they are dead. Yes, all the main characters are actually dead. It’s not a fan theory, it was confirmed by Nick P on his Instagram. Why did this go over most peoples head? Because most people have never read the Bardo Thodal, The Eastern Book of the Dead. Nick P is stooped in this sort of esoteric literature.
It’s the only way some of the things we see make sense. (Velcoro getting shot point blank in the chest by a shotgun and walking away like nothing happened)
I won’t go too far into detail here in this comment section but a guy named Honest_Richard did a full breakdown of the themes of this show in a Reddit post entitled “True Detective Season 2 and The Tibetan Book of the Dead” Google that if you are interested.
Also Lera Lynn the female guitar player is amazing.
Do you have a link to Nic confirming this theory? It doesn't really make narrative sense even though I kind of like it.
@@ErikKain I think they are misremembering because that wouldn't make any sense
@@lawrenceragnarok1186he's mixing it up with 'the sixth sense' somehow.
He was shot with rock salt. You can totally walk away from that although very slowly
I need to rewatch it and give it a second chance.
I'll probably love it now after witnessing that wreckage known as season 4.
Two is very good…as far as characters. Following the various stories and whodunits ain’t easy, but Vaughn, mcadams, and Farrell are all EXCELLENT.
Kitsch too imo. And Kelly Reilly, of course. 😆
Vinci is actually based on a real city in LA, Vernon. It is all factories and industrial buildings, and close to no residents. They also have a track record of corruptedness. Very eerie vibes there!
ooh very interesting!
The Vince Vaughn storyline in Season 2 is pretty much ripped off of The Long Good Friday (1980) - with Frank being Harold (the character played by Bob Hoskins) and Jordan being Victoria (Helen Mirren). Both storylines are about a gangster attempting to secure a lucrative property deal, backed up by a supportive wife. Ultimately it turns out that the mysterious carnage that ensues has been partially caused by a friend, who the main character kills in a rage.
Yep, and The Long Good Friday is getting a 4K from Arrow in May!
Planning a full franchise video to discuss why season 2 is subversively amazing, season 3 was boring and s4 committed the same sins as season 3 . Appreciate your Night Country vids and awesome to see you revisit s2
I liked 3!
@@ErikKain I thought 3 and 4 both called back to season 1 alot to hold fan interest. Although I have to go back and rewatch 3 as I only watched it once when it aired. I remember Dorf and Ali having great chemistry but that was about it.
@@PaperStarship iirc it certainly alluded to the missing girls and the broader conspiracy but it was a lot more subtle than 4.
100% agreed. I thought I was the only one. If you dont compare it with Season 1 its actually pretty good. Really like Colin Farrell in this one and I thought Vince Vaughan was fine.
Sorry super random but his name is actually Vince Vaughn
Possible mandela effect as it was definitely Vaughan at one stage but apparently not😂
@@Daviddanielstoday Wow! I didn't even know u could spell it that way
I'm rewatching season 1 to scour the residual grime left by night country. I barely remember season 2, but I recall defending it at the time because it wasn’t "as good as" 1. You've inspired me to take another look at 2 if only to pay my respects to a now dead series.
Vince has charisma and a type of menace to him, and definitely fits the "not a regular white guy" eastern bloc guy grown up in America. Taylor was a believable ex soldier with troubles. Rachel was a great tough but feminine cop with childhood trauma and believable with knife skills. Colin was great. Special shout out to Fred Ward and Timothy (Osip) and the scar faced girl as supporting cast.
My only issue was that the plot was a little convoluted. It was fresh i guess to have an unhappy ending
Everybody hates on Vince Vaughan for playing against type while forgetting he played a serial killer in The Cell. Meanwhile Rachel McAdams was female lead in a several romcoms and romcom adjacent films including The Notebook and Wedding Crashers the very movie that cemented Vince Vaughan as a comedic actor in so many people’s eyes.
I never felt S2 was bad, even when it came out I took it as it's own and enjoyed it. It's different but thats the great thing about it. And Im totally on the opposite I feel Vaughn was one of the strongest performances in these series.
Maybe not the best comparison but ppl always compare BoB to Pacific and I would elevate those to the same place on the podium, cause they are both unique but have a different angle.
Same here with S1 & S2 theyre from the same fabric, one the coat and the other one is the pair of trousers.
S4 on the otherhand was not TD. It was evident in the first scenes with dialogue..
Edit: yes I agree on the point that it could have been more tightly put together. First time watching was confusing.
Like I've said I really think Vice pulled it off in the end. Just threw me early on
I liked it when it came out. I even liked it better than season 3.
Lots of good points. I almost wish Nick could get a second shot at S2. I think it's underrated. Interesting fact I missed on first watch, in E2 Velcoro has a dream after getting shot where his father tells him exactly how he is ultimately killed in E8. The scene w/ the Elvis impersonator singing in the background. I think the secret society angle of season 1 is part of what's missing from other seasons.
Obviously season one was brilliant, the writing and acting was great.
Maybe Im one of the few that liked Season 2 right off the bat.
Loved the actors.
Actually saw something recently with LT Buress being the lead in some film / tv and thought what a great actor.
Colin Farrell is great, as was Rachel Mcadams and Taylor Kitsch.
Personally I think Vince Vaughan makes a great criminal, nice to see him break out from comedy and be great in True Detective 2, ' CellBlock ' and excellent in " dragged across concrete".
I thought some of the best scenes were on the bar with Frank and Ray.
Obviously it was different having FOUR protagonists and also not the time jumps you had in 1 and 3.
Havnt seen four as im not subscribed and im not just for one show.
I love my physical media with a 70' Oled , nice 4K player and a mix of 450 UHD and 400 Blu Rays and i will always support physical media and seadon four is being released in a month or so and will sit next to 1,2 and 3.
So far season 1 was my favourite followed by season 2 and then 3.
I have a lot of love for Two.
Apart from an overally Dark ending where far too many Dont make it, but overall ive watched it 5-6 times.
I really appreciate your views and video so thanks from deepest Southern UK, can't go any further south or it sea and France.
I look forward to season 4 and hope it on par with others.
But for me it's 1 closely followed by 2 which gets better with multiple watches.
Man the writting is soo good.
Also to wrap up, season one was so good that i think anything that followed would of been disrespectef and not been given a fair chance.
Thanks 👍 ✌️✌️✌️🇺🇦🇵🇸
PS just remembered he was in the TV Gotham playing Theo Galavan 🙄.
Great actor but personally i havnt seen him in much.
Good bad guy certainly made Taylor Kitsch Crawl 😉..
I loved season 2 also the first time and still love it. It's my favorite season and one of my favorite shows ever . Better call Saul, season 2 of true detective, Netflix's Dark. These are my favorite shows of all time.
@@C-White-88 haven't seen it BUT I hear a series called 1899 same crew as the dark.
Supposed to be amazing although ??🤔 I hear No season two.
Anyway must watch the dark and 1899.
You want a BRILLIANT one off film twy " APOSTLE" with the ever brilliant " Dan Stevens" from Downton abbey to " The Guest " ( I actually thought he was American ), onto " The Apostle" ama Kong X Godzilla.
Dam great actor especially in " The Guest" 👍👍😉😊😊
PS guess Apostle depends often on what netflix region you are.
Popular on UK N Flix as been there years and IF ?? Enough people only vote a film 50% or less Netflix drop it.
✌️👍✌️
@@rikaardyyz3039 I thought 1899 was no where near as good as Dark but that's just my opinion. I'm in the US, I have seen Apostle it was one of the first movies I watched when I first got Netflix a few years back.
Ray ❤
The mansion episode with the classical music was top notch, it was too damn good.
I've seen this season three times and I like it more each time. It must've been hard to break down the jist of the season (because it was shall we say, a little BUSY) but you did a great job.
I don't think that this season is the trainwreck that many painted it as when it was first released, but to me it's akin to watch an injured champion run a marathon: you admire the past greatness and the effort, but it's still awkward and painful to sit through.
I've always preferred Season 2 over Season 3. The more standard crime story of Season 2 was definitely jarring after Season 1 and i believe thats why it wasn't so well received. Obviously, Season 2 has more issues but it wasnt NEARLY as bad as people made it seem
Completely disagree about Vaughn being out of place in his role
Like I said, he grew on me. But it's still hard for me to shake his other roles as more of a funny guy and I don't think he really finds his stride until the second half.
M
@@ErikKainVaughn was very good in domestic disturbance which showcased to me he can do well in both drama and comedy.
@@anitaknight3915 I'm not saying he can't I'm just saying it still throws me off.
@@ErikKain I understand because he's seen as the funny guy. I loved him in wedding crashers and on curb your enthusiasm. I really liked Farrell performance in S2 and felt Taylor Kitch was underrated. The ending was sooo sad for Paulie and Vaccaro.
The episode 4 shootout was fantastic!
I’m personally not a fan of the “bad guy full auto mag dumps with little to no accuracy” trope. I thought S3’s shootout with Woodard was a lot better. Though I will say that S2 as a whole is worth a rewatch. There’s a lot going on in the conspiracy and it’s easier to follow along during a second viewing.
That shootout and how it was handled was the only really big mistake in the season in my opinion.
@@Fedorevsky without analyzing it too much, it was friggin exciting!
I disagree since I reacted differently to it, but I'm glad you enjoyed it!@@Jffeeney3rd
I just binge watched all of Season 2 today. The first 4 eps were a slow burn. But I really liked it. Not as good as 1 & 3. But very good. Way better than 4, which I thought was ok, till the end.
After the disaster of Night Country I did exactly what you did & rewatched Season 2, which I remember liking but was also confused by & pretty much dismissing at the time. I disagree mildly with you on Vince Vaughn, I liked his performance & character. What jumped out at me this time was how children/childhood is a running theme, all the characters are motivated by them - Velcoro & his son, Frank & his wife trying to conceive, Woodrugh’s sleazy mother & what was probably a chaotic childhood, Ani’s childhood trauma & eventual motherhood, the revelation of the murderer of Caspere by someone with a ruined childhood. I thought that was an interesting layer on what I thought was a pretty fascinating but definitely flawed season.
Season 2 sent flowers to Season 4 for taking the spot as the worst season of TD. BTW, Season ll is not that bad. Michael Mann’s “Collateral” and “Heat” are great LA films.
Has anyone else watched Issa Lopez' film 'Tigers Are Not Afraid'?. It got amazing reviews and I thought it was bloody awful. And I actually love Issa Lopez as a human being- she is incredibly charming on podcasts and in interviews. I'm very puzzled by her choice to helm Night Country. Especially when Barry Jenkins is involved. I'd love to understand how and why Jenkins got involved. What I would like to see is True Detective 5 taken over by Barry Jenkins.
season 2 was incredible almost as good as one ive never understood the hate
I mostly enjoyed S2 when it came out. What S2 needed was more time and more care. As you said, what it needed was a different way to tell it. someone at the time suggested that it should have been told like a Raymond Chandler novel,.The detectives first get involved in the children's jewel story. Only later, through them, do the detectives - and the audience - become involved in the Vinci story.
HBO is partially responsible, because they wanted another hit series and they rushed Pizzolatto. Also,the series suffered from Fukunaga's absence. He might have been able to help Vaughan shape his role. Pizzolatto & Fukunaga had a bad falling out so P directed. P, a writer, had no experience as a director.
I do think it was kinda cool how the theme song in each episode had different lyrics every time for each episode. I like the LA Noire vibe the season had, but some of the lines in the season just made me cringe so hard, especially that scene where Colin Farrell threatens the dad 😂
That line alone, is a million times better than everything in season 4.
I bought it. I thought that scene was savage.
@@zzz7zzz9 I know it was memorable I’ll give it that 😂 Colin Farrell made it work, he sounded demented
Yea man Season 1 was and over 10 years later remains a near masterpiece and there's no question Season 2 isn't on its level in almost every way but it's also one of the best cases in my life of holding a successor in the shadow of it's predecessor, particularly when it's predecessor is something I love as much as that first season not to mention Woody and Matthew are two of my all time favorite actors but so is Colin Farrell, who for me is definitely MVP of this season from the first couple scenes he's in, in the first episode, I've always loved Vince Vaughn as well though one of my biggest issues and what it made it harder for me to stop comparing it to season 1 is Nic trying to make Vince out to be the Rust Cohle of this season but once he lets up on that I really started to like his character, Taylor Kitsch is yet another actor I've always liked though not as much as the rest of the main cast I still mostly loved his character throughout the season though I wish he would've had more moments of being a bad ass, in a parallel earth I like to think Battleship and John Carter were both blockbusters and Taylor went on to be a major star...then we got one of my all time biggest crushes, Rachel McAdams who again is another actor/actress i either like or love in pretty mich everything I've seen her in...I don't want to yap too much but plain and simple this season while definitely not on the level of the classic first season is really good and ive enjoyed it even more everytime i rewatch it...i think after such an amazing first season Nic and the rest of the crew needed to time but season 2 hit like 16 months after season 1..I think he needed a couple years but him probably being rushed to follow up a first season that was so well loved in a pretty short amount of time...bottom line I truly feel this season is underrated and underappreciated and deserves at least 2 watch throughs, not everything is an instant like,love or classic and especially after a few years around 2018 and beyond so it wasn't so.much in season 1's shadow..i like or love of majority of this season even most of the cliches though no question in my top 3 main problems with this season is setting it in LA, call it Vinci if u want but A Rose By Any Other Name...for me the First setting in the first season sucked me in more than almost any other thing I've ever seen, as cliche as it is to say but they used that deep south creole bayou setting so well ita a character itself for me...LA is so played out and they did nothing special with the setting though at least some of it takes place out of the city like Rachel's character going to high end escort party, i love those scenes but LA is so overused, i love NYC so much, it's my city my home but it's also played out, I want to see lesser used locations, at least they went back to that in season 3 & 4...but borrowing the spill and double toasted rating system ill give the season at a low Full Price(basically 7-7.5/10) for the season overall, it's definitely worthy of at least one watch imo and I also think it deserves 2 go thrus especially if u didn't like it all that much the first time cuz it's not just me that it grew on during a second play through, my big brother, my uncle and one of my closest boys all agree it grew on them in the second playthrough
Cool review . I think I’ll rewatch season 2. A review of LA Confidential would be great !!! Awesome movie .
Just was thinking about rewatching that. Watched Zodiac last night and may do something about it.
I had to rewatch Season 2 to appreciate it fully, and in doing so, I realized that one of the "problems" with the season is it came on the heels of season 1, which was almost flawless. But in and of itself, season 2 is excellent. If, in fact, it came before season 1, I probably wouldn't have judged it so harshly. The other issue that I had with the season is that it did have too many subplots and minor characters. This made it too hard to follow. If the season was 16 episodes long, this might have been okay, but with only 8 episodes, it was too much. Despite this, I do enjoy the season, would watch it again (this would be my fourth time doing so), and I believe it IS True Detective - unlike the train wreck that is Night Country which is just a hot mess.
I’m from L.A and Vinci looks like it’s based on a city in south east L.A. it’s primarily industrial with very minimal residential areas. It was also infamous for being rife with corruption.
I thought the scene where Frank dies was powerful
S2 is a distant memory TBH, but i remember enjoying the back half. The directing & score when Bezzerides (sp) invades the sex party was awesome. Russian bouncer - "What the fvck you do?" as he's spraying arterial blood lol. Altho one of the more glaring things i remember was when Woodrugh sneaks in the back way and is like "oh, handy, here's all the incriminating documents-- with signatures!" lol. The finale definitely went dark with Ani n Jordan in Venezuela and the other 3 dead.
I appreciate the re-watch and retrospective..... I think I remember Nic Pizzolatto talking about the length of time he had to write and structure Season One and HBO's demand for a second season... that time just was not there. You do make great points about pacing for sure... Some plot points DRAAAAG on.
Being fromTexas I loved how Season One captured the art of conversation... That is how we do in the South... Personal and Detailed.
So the juxtaposition of big city California and just "To The Point" is spot on.
Also,how every character is impacted badly by sex. From the main cast to Paul's mother with a glaring herpes sore and the underlining lust for her son and contempt for his homosexuality.
Plus, as you said the soundtrack is Amazing.
I believe if HBO cold have waited another year the script would have been much tighter, delivering a better product but i have always defended this season and again appreciate you giving it another shot. Great work as always.
I honestly liked Season 2 when I watched it years back. The characters were all interesting and well acted (even Vince Vaghn did well. I know some people disliked his acting but I thought it was great). The main problem was a convoluted plot that was hard to follow and not that intriguing.
I am under the impression that we will never get another season equal to TD S1. The reason being is that Cary Fukunaga directed the hell out of that season. Too bad Nicki Pizza got in the way of the Fukunaga's direction resulting in him turning down any subsequent seasons. Without a solid director the show has continually gone downhill to where it is now. TV and film are for sure a collaborative effort, everyone involved is vital. But (IMO) a good director is the lynchpin. For TD S2-4 they have lacked that lynchpin director and it shows.
I highly suggest you to watch/review a spanish movie called La Isla Minima its has similar vein to TD S01 in fact i like it more than TD it felt way more "Authentic".
Its sets in 80's Spains after Franco Regime, Two detectives solving a case about Two missing girls in a Marshland.
And everytime i hear this song "Yes Sir, I Can Boogie - Baccara" i thought about La Isla Minima.
Honestly liked session 2. Defended it then and now.
I just rewatched it as well--in fact I rewatched all of them including...'.Untrue Night Detective'. I agree, S2 is way better then I remembered. I personally believed Vince Vaughn's character this time around but felt Racheal McAdams was miscast. I just don't believe her as a loner bad ass. Agree that it needed to be edited down and tightened up--should have left it in the oven for another 8 months--HBO's fault actually, they rushed Nic Pizzolatto.
I also decided to rewatch Season 2 after forcing myself to get through 4 and that’s one good thing about Season 4 is that it helped me realize season 2 was actually decent.
I think it’s time to start the season over again!
I loved Season 2. I like Vince and Colin. Thought they did a great job.
When season two of True Detective came out it was like performing right after Michael Jackson performed Billie Jean at the Apollo in 1983 and received a five minute standing ovation; whoever it was that had to perform after Michael Jackson you feel bad for that person. I have to admit that I watched a couple of episodes of season two and then just stopped watching it; I never thought it was horrible like Dark Country but my expectations were off the charts. I lived in Alaska for four years and Dark Country does nothing right when it comes to capturing the small town dynamic; it’s pretty atrocious actually.
Hated S2 upon first watch back when it released. Rewatched it last month and it was actually very good, different than S1 and has flaws, but overall enjoyable. Season 2 - perhaps I treated you too harshly
Well, at least season 3 can't be worse, right?
Well, at least season 4 can't be worse, right?
Well, at least season 5 can't be worse, right?
Who knows, maybe you will LOVE night country on a second watch as well! 🥳
On the subject of misogyny in the show- I don't think the show is misogynistic, but I do think it reveals some underlying holes in the writer's understanding of how to create a compelling female character. There are some writers who can convincingly create a character of the opposite sex, but many more who struggle to fully envision one or understand how their inner world might look. A lot of 'badass female characters' just feel like the character is written as a man, meaning their approach to life and their inner world is more akin to that of a man than it is to an authentic woman. Female writers fall into this exact same problem writing male characters sometimes as well, especially in romance where they wordily wax poetic about the inner machinations of a man's mind when they clearly don't know what that's actually like.
As a woman, I really don't mind when a writer sticks with what they know. Pizzolatto has a lot of interesting ideas to explore and express to his audience about masculinity, what it means to be a man and what it feels like. Season One is often criticized as portraying women as perpetual victims and satellites to the male character's story, but Season One had themes closely connected to masculinity and a male perspective. I didn't find it misogynistic. I found it a insightful piece of work about how some men worry about, approach, and handle relationships with the women in their lives and in their world in general. Especially given the fact that we're entering the world through the eyes of two male cops. No doubt after years of seeing women being hurt they begin to view them through the lense of their victimhood. Police work and exposure to the worst side of humanity has a way of narrowing your perspective like that.
I liked Bezzerides as a character, irrespective of gender, but she wasn't too compelling as a female character. I wonder if that distinction makes sense. She doesn't think like a woman or speak like a woman, really. But she's a good 'cop' character so I could enjoy her on that level. I do wish her backstory didn't need to include sexual assault. Not because I don't think it's a perfectly reasonable backstory to give someone, but because it actually feels empty. We're given a lot of complex insight into how Velcoro's difficult backstory impacts him, both in the overall arc of his story and in the minor details of how he thinks and behaves. But Ani's sexual assault feels flimsily connected to her character as she is in present day. It doesn't feel like an authentic portrayal of a woman who had such a traumatic experience as a child, nor does it really get expressed how it makes her feel short of 'feels bad, so sad.'
Again, that's not misogyny to me. It's just a lack of personal experience Pizzolatto has with being a woman. It's a writing weak spot, and I understand why that weak spot generated criticism.
@@kd8663 very well said. Thank you.
Season 2 was great but you had to forget comparing to season 1! But it’s great work on its own on a completely different topic
I loved season 2 it's one of my all time favorite shows . I loved season one but something about season 2 just really worked for me and I had no trouble following the story . The gang that kills frank is the cartel he cut a deal with them towards the end that they could sell their dope 2 or maybe it was 3 days a week. So when he burns it down they took it as you broke our deal. I mean we understand why he's burning it down because we're following his story but the cartel doesn't care why . Anyway Maybe I'm weird because I loved this season it's my favorite season and one of my favorite shows even.
I have the feeling that a lot of people slept on s2 because everyone else told them to, and didn't actually watch it to form theor own opinion. I wouldn't dare to say that s2 is perfect, or that is remotely the same of good stuff as s1 is; it has many, many flaws, but I always thought that it spoke the same language of s1, shared it's DNA to a degree that the other two didn't. It was all about the pessimism and the futility of things. The score, the brown lighting, the characters, the music (OMG, S2 with Lera Lynn is superior than f'in Billie Eilish bruh), the intimacy during the motel scene with that dark score as Ani and Ray talk about being brought back into the investigation and the melancholic piano, pfff! So many cool moments. I think everyone should give it an honest try, because, at least, for me it's one of the greatest shows seasons of tv out there
I only watched it for the first time recently but I enjoyed it. The plot is kind of a mess and I couldn't figure out exactly what Frank's role in the story was for most of the season, but the writing and performances were excellent. What stood out for me was the visceral cynicism, almost loathing for Californian society 😂 By contrast there's a kind of quiet reverence for middle America in seasons 1&3. Particularly loved the shots of the swampland in season 1.
I always wondered about the backstory of the female guitarist at the bar.
I don't even think Vaughn was necessarily bad, but his character is written kinda weird. I don't think anyone could have voiced that dialogue and not sounded off. That said, of the four main characters Frank is definitely the weak link
Yeah totally. With some tweaks it could have been a great role.
I felt Season 2 suffered cause too many characters. I feel that the Taylor Kitsche character could've been completely removed.
So the story…yeah. There’s another video somewhere on RUclips breaking down both the land plot and the actual murder that starts the season which have nothing to do with each other aside from the murder victim being involved in the land plot too. The actual murder mystery is bonkers and hinges on a character named Tasha who never appears onscreen, and on the murder victim taking Tasha to look at the jewels in his safe deposit box in a bank and letting her take pictures of them when this is really the only way anyone could tie him to the murders back in the day. Also apparently, it is implied he’s having a sexual relationship with a woman who is his daughter but maybe neither of them know.
Agree with you on Vince Vaughn miscasting, as Vaughn is has been typecasted as the Wedding Crashers guy. Someone like Willem Defoe would have worked better due to the tone of the show.
There is a suburb of LA named City of Industry with only like 100-200 residents who vote in a city council that pass laws favorable to big industrial tenants who rent land from the owner of all the land in the city who in turn lets the few residents live in town for next to no rent in return for electing the right people.
Season 2 actually touches on the p**za g*te themes of high society individuals, as does season 1, trafficking and sexual abusing people ,but once again just wasn’t that great of a show but worth a watch
"Vinci" = Vernon, CA
With Night country, the setting and visuals of it would be a lot better if it had daylight. The scenes with daylight would have helped establish scenes and setting. Frozen tundra in daylight was cool in the very few 3 or 4 moments. Always being in dark sounds cool but doesn't work for visuals and story telling
Very nice retrospective. VinceV is a solid actor and by all accounts a great guy, his portrayal falls flat hard here. I remember him sticking out in a bad way in every scene he was in. Some of it was certainly the writing. And, as you said, his character tightens up in later episodes. I found him to be the weakest piece in S02. The second major flaw was the erratic storytelling. There's a way to parcel out clues, even throwing in some red herrings, while still moving the story ahead linearly. The writers of S02 have not mastered that art. BTW, I agree with your rankings: S01>S03>S02>>S04. (S04 was a HARD FAIL.)
I remember liking it up until last episodes, when it all kinda fizzled down...
I actually liked the last episodes a lot. Very depressing though
This retrospective is how I felt revisiting the Star Wars prequels after viewing the Star Wars sequel trilogy. The prequels are still bad films, sure, but it did give me some appreciation for the films being different from the original trilogy. Granted, the prequels were also pretty bad about over-relying on the iconography of the original trilogy, but at least it wasn’t a copy and paste like the sequel trilogy.
I've tried and I just can't. I hate the prequels more than almost anything. The first time I felt totally betrayed by media
@@ErikKain That is totally fair. I mean, I still had to skip through most of the Phantom Menace to even finish it. I watched the pod race and the final duel with Darth Maul and that was about it. And the less said about Episode II the better.
Season 2 is better than the Star Wars Prequels. I know a lot of people are re-evaluating the Prequels in the wake of the Sequels but that's a step too far for me. Hayden Christiansen? WTF was Lucas smoking?
@@adtastic1533 I agree wholeheartedly. Again, I still think the prequels are really bad. This retrospective just reminded me of my experience trying to rewatch the prequels after seeing the sequels.
Maybe eventually season 5 will be so bad we'll say season 4 deserves a rewatch.
I think S2 focused a little too much meta-contextually on slashing Season 1 expectations for the viewer in several ways. First, by making the law-enforcement we focus upon far more dangerous people to the general public (Rust's reclusive nature means wider society is safe and Marty's violent nature is specific and targeted) and by using the utter lack of a mystical revelation as the definitive revelation to the audience. It turns out in a corptocracy, nestled in the richest state in the richest country on the planet, you don't need supernatural reasons to be a piece of shit human being. Indeed, that sort of city culture promotes, proliferates, and profits off of young boys and girls volunteering. The realization of Antigone at the party ("You think these girls don't know why they're here?") being the supposed gut-punch to the audience is what seemed to fall so flat at the time. But I enjoyed how genuine and 'real' the characters and their behaviours are. Total antithesis to Night Country, which isn't just supernatural- it's Lala Land Fantasy.
Can i ask one question thay has not been brought up anywhere on the Internet as far as i can tell-
In episode 7 of True Detective series 1, Rust says to Marty that he moved back to Alaska for 8 years after he stopped being a cop.
Did he go and see his dad? Who was his mum? Did he live in Ennis? Was it Rust that brought all the spriral and the flat circle shit there?
Most of all- if Rust was living in Alaska for EIGHT F*CKING YEARS, why did no one notice or mention him?
Rust was not in Alaska. I'm pretty sure that was just a cover story and he was still working the case down south off the grid the whole time.
@@ErikKain yeah I thought that. But why would he need to develop a cover story? And how fucking easy is that cover story to blow? He works in a bar. Or maybe he was trying to escape the Tuttles? Not realising that THEY WERE ALSO IN ALASKA FOR SOME REASON. And it only took Rust- essentially the modern day Sherlock Holmes, EIGHT YEARS to realise that the TUTTLES were there. So he decided to escape back to Lousiana WHERE HE KNEW THE TUTTLES DEFINITELY WERE? I'm so confused.
Season four I didn’t think it was controlled by the writing, strike detective
Alaska is such an “obvious” setting it feels cheap almost.
If you have been to alaska (not just anchorage or somewhere like Girdwood), it could have been amazing. Alaska has a feeling similar to S1 Louisiana, being eerie in the sunlight. Where nature is taking over everything manmade. So many structures are dilapidated. The gas station with nothing 50 miles in any direction. The sleepy town/village with 20-50 people. It could have been great, but they filmed in Iceland not Alaska.
Now season 3
I still liked season 2 , but it just didn’t have the same feeling of chasing a specific bad guy or group. Based on the real town Vernon
Things have fallen this far in only 8 years. There will be nothing in 2032.
I thought this season was pretty damn good it just lacked a good overall villain, I thought they would uncover some like super big human traffiking type criminal ring or something the ending was super lackluster but characters were great, actors were great
"vince Vaughn is so vince Vaughn"
And he's been a guy you csn just root for. In movies and in real life. My bias is strong ill admit