60 were build by Lima between 1941 and '48. 58 were scrapped. Only 2 were saved. 1601 was in Dearborn, Michigan and 1604 was at the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore, Maryland.
The 2-6-6-6 Allegheny is one of my favorite locomotives (Big Boy is my all time favorite) , its a shame that their not that much footage of the Alleghenies in action.
Excellent short detail documentary & footage about the C&O H8 class "Allegheny" type locomotive, one of my favorite eastern USA articulated type steam locomotives, it is excellent that both 1601 and 1604 have been preserved in museums.
For those of you who have never been to the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI, please let me explain the problem with the soundtrack. The museum is very large with thousands of displays in what is essentially a huge single room. Most of the display areas have sound systems that project the audio quite loudly so that everyone can hear the selected program within a certain radius. That day, the civil rights era of the 1960s was playing in relatively close proximity while the person attempting to record the story of the Allegheny locomotive was using a microphone on his recording device that was probably not very directional, so it picked up everything! Unfortunately for rail enthusiasts, not much could be done at the time with the available equipment. Go visit the museum and you'll hear what I mean! No, the audio guy wasn't me!
That museum is incredible. Built around one of Mr Fords electricity generators. Absolutely incredible things in there. Took our son to get him settled into MSU and was able to stop by on the way home.
When designing the locomotive Lima had to make sure it kept the length within the bounds of the C&O's turntables otherwise, of course, there would have been a logistical headache in trying to turn the beasts. To get around this Lima angled the rear tender to be larger at the rear to increase its capacity while reducing the locomotives' overall length, which was still an impressive 113 feet. This resulted in the tender having an uneven truck setup, four axles on the rear and three in front with a capacity of 25,000 gallons (water) and 25 tons (coal). With sixty-seven inch drivers and over 110,000 pounds of tractive effort an Allegheny could move 5,000 tons at an incredible 45 mph although they were commonly asked to haul twice this tonnage (around 10,000 lugging freights at about 15 mph).
The Big Boys & Alleghenys were both great locomotives. In terms of power Big Boys had more tractive force (135,375Ibs), Alleghenys had more horsepower (7498 horsepower), Big Boys are longer (132ft 10in), Alleghenys are heavier (without coal & water in the tender), Big Boys had a heavier loaded weight (1.2 million pounds), Alleghenys were taller (16ft 7in), Big Boys has bigger drivers (68in) & a higher pressure (300 psi) Big Boy had a higher top speed.
"Iron American Dream" a song on RUclips. America was built on iron and it was powered by steam. Iron is what allowed America to happen. The railroads, the shipping industry, the automobile industry, America's military were all dependent on iron. Take a ride across the Promised Land on the "Iron American Dream."
If you want to see (and hear) the original version of the operating Alleghenies in this footage, get B&O/C&O Steam with Live Sound on DVD from Herron Rail Video.
Luckier than the rest? 1601 has a surviving sister engine in the B&O rr museum #1604. The Alleghenies are one of my favorite steamers, and their HP is outstanding, being 7498 (or 7500).
Edit: Allegheny had a wider boiler that could fit over that of the Big Boys, and a larger firebox with more heating surface. They also could take passenger services, which was rarely done by Big Boys. But the H8 boiler could only FIT OVER it, not entirely close upon it at both ends, because the 4000 was, in fact, the LONGEST reciprocating steam engine. (Minus tenders, as the PRR S1 was longer when it carried the tender) Still, both had similar jobs with grades and long trains and war loads.
this one is also the most powerful at speed, but hp in a loco can be a tricky thing to know for sure, but with tender on it the h-8 was longer, and had more power, second only to the yellowstone and the big blow which was a gas turbine loco.
@MrAquarium I really like the Alleghenies, but "Big Boy" will always be my #1 favorite steam locomotive. The Alleghenies might have been taller and heavier than "Big Boy", but "Big Boy" had over 20,000 lbs more tractive effort than an Allegheny, was built to be able to reach 80 m.p.h., and the last "Big Boy" was retired from service in 1959, outliving the Alleghenies by about 3 years. As I said, I have a deep respect for the Alleghenies, but, in my opinion, "Big Boy" is "the king of steam".
@@TomKirkman1 That amount of tractive effort is still contested. The actual calculated tractive efforts for the N&W's Y5-Y6 was 126,838 lbs. (running in compound) and 152,206 lbs. (running in simple).
@MrBurlingtonNorthern I completely agree. I don't like saying that one locomotive was 'better' than another, but I will say things like one locomotive was faster, heavier, stronger, operated longer, etc. than another. I love many of the giant steam locomotives, like the UP 4-8-8-4s, DM&IR 2-8-8-4s, Southern 2-8-8-2s, UP 4-6-6-4s, C&O 2-6-6-6s, etc. However, I will always have one steam locomotive I love more than any other, and that's Big Boy, "the king of steam" (at least, to me, he is).
@shnimmuc I know that "Big Boy" wasn't the strongest steam locomotive ever built. However, I will say that he was the largest successful steam locomotive ever built, and I will also say that he is, and always will be, my favorite steam locomotive.
Unfortunately, the Allegheny's potential for steam at speed was largely wasted on the C&O, being used for push-pull coal drag service at low speed. Only on the Northern Sub and time freights did they ever show their abilities. Largest and most powerful for sure, but totally misused, and the film proves it: 407K miles in 15 years. Big Boys built a couple of years later racked up well over a million in about 17 years of service due to faster runs and quicker turning times.
Almost NO FOOTAGE that I can find. 2 clips oh You Tube and no videos I am aware of. Lots of Big Boys and N&W but no Alleghenies. Possibly the most powerful steam loco ever built and certainly the Big Boys equal.
What locomotive is the largest? - UP Big Boy (4-8-8-4) @ 132 Ft long. What locomotive had the highest tractive effort? - DM&IR M-4 Yellowstone (2-8-8-4) @ 140,000 ft-lbs. What locomotive was the heaviest? - C&O Allegheny (2-6-6-6) @ 778,000 lbs. What locomotive had the highest horsepower? - C&O Allegheny (2-6-6-6) with 7500 HP @ 40 mph.
You know, for such an enormous, heavy locomotive, this thing has a REALLY high-pitched whistle. I was actually surprised that it sounds like that, I was expecting a really deep chime whistle, like on Lima's other engines. Why did they give such an impressively large and powerful locomotive such a high whistle?
What a incredible class of steam locomotives they are, the Allegheny steam locomotives got a sets of 0-6-0 driving wheels. They can hit 60 mph(96 km/h) and has a great traction force of 110211 lbf!
One of my favorites is a foreign engine, it had an interesting wheel set up! It was a AD60 4-8-4+4-8-4! I think they were used in Africa and Australia, not sure if they were used any where else! But American wise, I enjoy the AC cab forward and the AC-10 which wasn't cab forward! They were a nice size engine and solved a growing problem with long tunnels!!!
Starguard, didn't know much about American music. The mines were in Kentucky and West Virginia, and that banjo music has been traditional there for over 100 years, maybe 150. Also, the sharp, quick notes of the banjo can be distinguished over the narration and steam-engine sounds.
Screw conveyer that moved coal from the tender to the firebox? Call things by their name. They are called simply: Stokers. By the way, it is conveyor, and not conveyer.
Found something rather odd about the Allegheny's cousin, the Blue Ridge. Apparently, there is not only a difference in dome size or tender deck height, but also a huge difference in weight. The Allegheny's weight w/o tender (388 Tons) is greater than the Big Boy w/o tender (386 Tons) but the Blue Ridge's weight (377 Tons) w/o tender is less than the Big Boy w/o tender. I'm guessing this change of mass had to do with either weight limitations on the Virginian Railroad or change of metals used. Shrinking the sand domes should not remove an entire 11 tons of weight.
The H-8s required 141lb/yard rail so they were more or less too heavy for many places. And the UP 4000s have been East of the Mississippi River. One sits in Scranton, PA at Steamtown. UP at the time of the 4000s use did not have 141lb/yard rail so an H-8 would have torn up their track. The axle loading on the 4000s was 34 tons max while the H-8s had an 40 ton axle loading.
@shnimmuc Again, I'm not saying that "Big Boy" was the best steam locomotive in the world, nor am I saying that "Big Boy" was the most successful steam locomotive or that there weren't other large successful steam locomotives. All I am saying is that from what I have heard, seen, and gathered from many sources, "Big Boy" was the largest steam locomotive that was deemed successful. Yes, there were locomotives that were bigger/longer than "Big Boy", but they weren't really successful.
@shnimmuc It is widely said that "Big Boy" was the largest successful steam locomotive ever built. I don't make stuff up like that. Look at the St. Louis Museum of Transportation website, and you'll see that when they show a picture of "Big Boy", it says "Unrivalled World-Class Collection! Including the world's largest successful steam locomotive!" I'm not saying "Big Boy" was the most successful steam locomotive. I'm saying he was the largest steam locomotive that was successful.
I used to believe that UP's coal firing Big Boys are the biggest and heaviest steamer ever built. 'Till i've googled and found out that Chessie held the title of biggest ,heaviest, and MOST POWERFUL giant steam locomotive. the Allegheny! By the time it was released, very few RR laid heavy rails to support its sheer weight, by now every A-Class RRs in the US all have GIANT diesels and upgraded its rails, bridges and tunnels for it and its tasks. Remember how GM advertised its F-Unit diesels??
@trainmandan05 Although it has a better chance - almost all odds are against it still...Money,time, weight, railroads. Even though these engines are more heavy then the Big Boys..tracks remain the same..
@bubblejomay In regards to the tractive effort, I used what is listed for both locomotives on Wes Barris' website. If you want, I'll send you the link to it. In regards to the speed, I used both this video and many sources about 'Big Boy' for the info. In regards to the length of time they were in service, I (again) used this video and many sources about 'Big Boy' for the info. In regards to my opinion, well, it's my opinion. No one can say someone's opinion is wrong.
I wonder if this is the only video of an original allegheny in motion. If there is a full verison or complete video about this and other C&O steam enignes please let me know.
@MrAquarium - Actually, by observing the methods used by the various RR's as they tested their locos you can get an accurate look at what loco was the most powerful. That would be the N&W Y6b's 170,000 TE in simple. Pretty impressive for a loco that weighs less than the Allegheny. Unlike the VGN 2-8-8-8-4's or 2-10-10-2's teh Y6b TE was sustainable.
Except the Y6s could not produce the HP that the H-8s could. As mentioned, they weren't put to there best use except on the Northern Sub. There they could roll the trains at 45 MPH and develop up to 7500 HP. If you got the train started with an H-8, then it could roll it at speed. Even with their great weight, they could still slip their drivers. When the 1604 was at Roanoke next to the 1218, it made the 1218 look like the runt of the litter. Too bad the N&W got rid of all the Virginian AG class locos. But they couldn't have a Virginian loco showing up their home-built power.
@@gravelydon7072 Its not as important as Tractive effort. The Y5's - Y6b's could outpull the H8's and Bigboys. 166,800 for the Y's Also the intercepter was manual on them. The were able to get out to over 50 MPH.
@@gravelydon7072 So, technically, N&W owned Allegheny class locomotives, of the Virginian, for a short period of time!! Interesting!! Very interesting! Think of the possibilities if N&W would have kept just one Virginian 2-6-6-6 for posterity!! 🤔
@razgrizaceblaze259 I often wonder why the person that wrote Big Boy on the firebox of the 4000 never came forword and said he did it, or why someone that knows doesn't say it if the person isn't with us anymore. But will all do respect, Any Giant steam is an awesome site and machine, and the respect goes to those who designed and those who built them.
@JeffHendrie length is all that gives the big boy a name. The Alleghenny's firebox and boiler were both larger in size than that of the big boys. Big al also produced more tractive effort and horse power. big No diesel has yet to reach the horspower of the Alleghennys. Big Boy has allready been beat!
They never tested them at more than 45MPH on freight but they did run them at up to 60MPH on war time troop trains. In coal drag service, they really wasted a good loco. In fact, going East they wasted two of them as they used one on front and one on the rear and the second one shoved the first thru a tunnel and then the first pulled the train and second one thru the tunnel.
@Dartgame 340 It was designed for higher speed freight but ended up in slow speed drag service. If they had used it in high speed coal movement, it wouldn't have been a waste. They finally put them to proper use when the Diesels bumped them off the Division and they were put to work on the Northern Division. Where they rolled the freights in the speeds that they were designed for. These were not drag engines, they were engines built for speed. These engines could run at 60MPH if needed which is far different than 15MPH service.
Wider, but not as long. The length adds more size than the width on the BB, so even without tender, Big Boy really is the largest. The BBs also had more wheels, thus more weight allowed on it, and this makes it able to pull VERY long trains. However, Als were able to bring up more horsepower easily, and weighed more. For an odd reason, no one knows how long the train can be for an Al. Probably as much as a BB but faster. Really, though, I really hate debates like this. Just say they're equal.
The BBs were shorter in height also and not as powerful. But the BBs could start a heavier train than the H-8s but the BBs could not really roll them at the speed that the H-8s could because of the poorer quality coal the UP had. The H-8s had far better coal so could steam better. How long a train can an H-8 pull? How many broken drawbars do you want? Want to make a good comparison, compare an H-8 to a Challenger. Same number of driving axles, same number of non-powered axles on the loco. ;-)
- Continued Does Allegheny still too heavy to run on any A-class trackage? supposed that all A-classes reverted to (coal-firing) steam (due to a bleeding diesel prices, and an unexpected high upkeeps of diesel locomotives (?? an academic research thesis did indeed found out that way. honest! ;))
@razgrizaceblaze259 Never said you were wrong, just that I have heard and have seen so many statistics and statements that the allegheney had more tractive power than the big boy. Would like to see you info, thanks.
Just image if the they brought one of the Alleghenys out of retirement, restored it and ran it, and even threw in some doubleheaders with the 4014. Just picture it
@@miracleeskimobattleship2874 And does the UP have rail heavy enough for an H-8 to run on? They already spread rails with the 4014. Just think what the 40ton axle loads would do.
Why the hell do we always have to listen to bluegrass music when we see steam locomotives? The Ballad of Casey Jones is a vaudeville number. The Alleghenies were around in the 40's and 50's. Railroads aren't associated with rubes and hicks.
@floydrandol2731 Its tractive effort is lower because it has a smaller cylinder bore and lower boiler pressure. Yeah, the Big Boy can start a heavier train than the Allegheny, but the Allegheny can pull the same load faster.
@bubblejomay First, I wasn't trying to imply you said my opinion was wrong. I was just explaining where I got everything for each statement I made, and I guess I got carried away with the opinion part. Sorry. Anyway, I'll send you a message containing a link to the website where I got the info about tractive effort.
WTF is up with the goofy soundtrack on this otherwise short, basic, but moderately interesting video?? It's some rendition of "We Shall Overcome" scratchy playing in the background. Very distracting, and just weird. I would fix this!
That's what happens when your museum is near Detroit! Too many different types of people to please! And we all know you can't please all of the people all of the time! Yes the background music(?) was distracting and annoying!
Paul Langford Oh right, that makes sense. *remembers how much a single DM&IR Yellowstone can carry on the flats* The power of locomotives in general is amazing!
That's the reason railroads are so efficient: steel wheels on steel rails have vey low rolling resistance, so once moving it doesn't take much to keep them going.
60 were build by Lima between 1941 and '48. 58 were scrapped. Only 2 were saved. 1601 was in Dearborn, Michigan and 1604 was at the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore, Maryland.
The 2-6-6-6 Allegheny is one of my favorite locomotives (Big Boy is my all time favorite) , its a shame that their not that much footage of the Alleghenies in action.
Excellent short detail documentary & footage about the C&O H8 class "Allegheny" type locomotive, one of my favorite eastern USA articulated type steam locomotives, it is excellent that both 1601 and 1604 have been preserved in museums.
This beast needs to be restored to full steam operation since it’s so well preserved. The museum can have a big boy in its place
@Max's Rails Retro & More by truck
No
@@DMIRyellowstoneFan Yes
I love that locomotive.
For those of you who have never been to the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI, please let me explain the problem with the soundtrack. The museum is very large with thousands of displays in what is essentially a huge single room. Most of the display areas have sound systems that project the audio quite loudly so that everyone can hear the selected program within a certain radius. That day, the civil rights era of the 1960s was playing in relatively close proximity while the person attempting to record the story of the Allegheny locomotive was using a microphone on his recording device that was probably not very directional, so it picked up everything! Unfortunately for rail enthusiasts, not much could be done at the time with the available equipment. Go visit the museum and you'll hear what I mean! No, the audio guy wasn't me!
Michael Bowman i just went there today
That museum is incredible. Built around one of Mr Fords electricity generators. Absolutely incredible things in there. Took our son to get him settled into MSU and was able to stop by on the way home.
Allegheny is Nice but I prefer a Y6.
When designing the locomotive Lima had to make sure it kept the length within the bounds of the C&O's turntables otherwise, of course, there would have been a logistical headache in trying to turn the beasts. To get around this Lima angled the rear tender to be larger at the rear to increase its capacity while reducing the locomotives' overall length, which was still an impressive 113 feet. This resulted in the tender having an uneven truck setup, four axles on the rear and three in front with a capacity of 25,000 gallons (water) and 25 tons (coal). With sixty-seven inch drivers and over 110,000 pounds of tractive effort an Allegheny could move 5,000 tons at an incredible 45 mph although they were commonly asked to haul twice this tonnage (around 10,000 lugging freights at about 15 mph).
The Big Boys & Alleghenys were both great locomotives. In terms of power Big Boys had more tractive force (135,375Ibs), Alleghenys had more horsepower (7498 horsepower), Big Boys are longer (132ft 10in), Alleghenys are heavier (without coal & water in the tender), Big Boys had a heavier loaded weight (1.2 million pounds), Alleghenys were taller (16ft 7in), Big Boys has bigger drivers (68in) & a higher pressure (300 psi) Big Boy had a higher top speed.
Why not do this when no background noise?
Oh, this was shown at the museum! OK.
Thanks for sharing it.
"Iron American Dream" a song on RUclips. America was built on iron and it was powered by steam. Iron is what allowed America to happen. The railroads, the shipping industry, the automobile industry, America's military were all dependent on iron.
Take a ride across the Promised Land on the "Iron American Dream."
If you want to see (and hear) the original version of the operating Alleghenies in this footage, get B&O/C&O Steam with Live Sound on DVD from Herron Rail Video.
Luckier than the rest? 1601 has a surviving sister engine in the B&O rr museum #1604. The Alleghenies are one of my favorite steamers, and their HP is outstanding, being 7498 (or 7500).
Edit: Allegheny had a wider boiler that could fit over that of the Big Boys, and a larger firebox with more heating surface. They also could take passenger services, which was rarely done by Big Boys.
But the H8 boiler could only FIT OVER it, not entirely close upon it at both ends, because the 4000 was, in fact, the LONGEST reciprocating steam engine. (Minus tenders, as the PRR S1 was longer when it carried the tender)
Still, both had similar jobs with grades and long trains and war loads.
Thank you for sharing this. Makes me want to go to the Henry Ford museum to see her.
this one is also the most powerful at speed, but hp in a loco can be a tricky thing to know for sure, but with tender on it the h-8 was longer, and had more power, second only to the yellowstone and the big blow which was a gas turbine loco.
The alleghenys had some sweet whistles.
*That final... It's just epic.*
@Kleman09 "second largest" as in the total size of the locomotive, not just the boiler. The allegheny is shorter than the Big Boy, in length.
@MrAquarium
I really like the Alleghenies, but "Big Boy" will always be my #1 favorite steam locomotive. The Alleghenies might have been taller and heavier than "Big Boy", but "Big Boy" had over 20,000 lbs more tractive effort than an Allegheny, was built to be able to reach 80 m.p.h., and the last "Big Boy" was retired from service in 1959, outliving the Alleghenies by about 3 years. As I said, I have a deep respect for the Alleghenies, but, in my opinion, "Big Boy" is "the king of steam".
N&W Y5/Y6 had 170,000lbs of tractive effort.
@@TomKirkman1 That amount of tractive effort is still contested. The actual calculated tractive efforts for the N&W's Y5-Y6 was 126,838 lbs. (running in compound) and 152,206 lbs. (running in simple).
I wish there were more videos of these giants
@MrBurlingtonNorthern
I completely agree. I don't like saying that one locomotive was 'better' than another, but I will say things like one locomotive was faster, heavier, stronger, operated longer, etc. than another. I love many of the giant steam locomotives, like the UP 4-8-8-4s, DM&IR 2-8-8-4s, Southern 2-8-8-2s, UP 4-6-6-4s, C&O 2-6-6-6s, etc. However, I will always have one steam locomotive I love more than any other, and that's Big Boy, "the king of steam" (at least, to me, he is).
What's up with all the Civil Rights Music playing in the background? Were these locomotives discriminated against or something? :)
+Starguard ! For being steam engines, yes. And for being SOUTHERN steam engines at that!
ROFL :D
Maybe the museum has a few EMD "demonstrators".
Actually they ALL STEAM LOCOMOTIVES WERE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST by the diesel-ists who committed steam -a -cide.
@shnimmuc
I know that "Big Boy" wasn't the strongest steam locomotive ever built. However, I will say that he was the largest successful steam locomotive ever built, and I will also say that he is, and always will be, my favorite steam locomotive.
Unfortunately, the Allegheny's potential for steam at speed was largely wasted on the C&O, being used for push-pull coal drag service at low speed. Only on the Northern Sub and time freights did they ever show their abilities. Largest and most powerful for sure, but totally misused, and the film proves it: 407K miles in 15 years. Big Boys built a couple of years later racked up well over a million in about 17 years of service due to faster runs and quicker turning times.
I didn't know that was a train whistle blowing. It sounded like my wife calling me for dinner.
What a tragedy that almost no video of the 2666's can be found. Plenty of BigBoys but no Alleghenies.
Almost NO FOOTAGE that I can find. 2 clips oh You Tube and no videos I am aware of. Lots of Big Boys and N&W but no Alleghenies. Possibly the most powerful steam loco ever built and certainly the Big Boys equal.
U got to love that whistle
What locomotive is the largest? - UP Big Boy (4-8-8-4) @ 132 Ft long.
What locomotive had the highest tractive effort? - DM&IR M-4 Yellowstone (2-8-8-4) @ 140,000 ft-lbs.
What locomotive was the heaviest? - C&O Allegheny (2-6-6-6) @ 778,000 lbs.
What locomotive had the highest horsepower? - C&O Allegheny (2-6-6-6) with 7500 HP @ 40 mph.
The Y5-Y6Bs from the N&W could produce over 156,000 lbs of T.E.
And what steam locomotive was the fastest - Mallard.
Matthew Ellsworth ? None of the above. Baldwin was making triple articulated behemoths. They got shipped overseas though.
You know, for such an enormous, heavy locomotive, this thing has a REALLY high-pitched whistle. I was actually surprised that it sounds like that, I was expecting a really deep chime whistle, like on Lima's other engines. Why did they give such an impressively large and powerful locomotive such a high whistle?
Maybe the high pitched whistle was more audible over the sound of the locomotive?
The High pitched Whistle is believed to be from an N&W hooter whistle and not the original whistle but I could be wrong.
What a incredible class of steam locomotives they are, the Allegheny steam locomotives got a sets of 0-6-0 driving wheels. They can hit 60 mph(96 km/h) and has a great traction force of 110211 lbf!
No is a 2-6-6-6
One of my favorites is a foreign engine, it had an interesting wheel set up! It was a AD60 4-8-4+4-8-4! I think they were used in Africa and Australia, not sure if they were used any where else! But American wise, I enjoy the AC cab forward and the AC-10 which wasn't cab forward! They were a nice size engine and solved a growing problem with long tunnels!!!
Starguard, didn't know much about American music. The mines were in Kentucky and West Virginia, and that banjo music has been traditional there for over 100 years, maybe 150. Also, the sharp, quick notes of the banjo can be distinguished over the narration and steam-engine sounds.
Screw conveyer that moved coal from the tender to the firebox? Call things by their name. They are called simply: Stokers. By the way, it is conveyor, and not conveyer.
They need to restore this behemoth of a beast.
Found something rather odd about the Allegheny's cousin, the Blue Ridge. Apparently, there is not only a difference in dome size or tender deck height, but also a huge difference in weight.
The Allegheny's weight w/o tender (388 Tons) is greater than the Big Boy w/o tender (386 Tons) but the Blue Ridge's weight (377 Tons) w/o tender is less than the Big Boy w/o tender.
I'm guessing this change of mass had to do with either weight limitations on the Virginian Railroad or change of metals used. Shrinking the sand domes should not remove an entire 11 tons of weight.
@JeffHendrie The alleghenny's boiler was larger than the big boys.
Geat. Either this steam engine was to heavy to go west accross the Mississippi, or the Big Boy was to heavy to go east.
The H-8s required 141lb/yard rail so they were more or less too heavy for many places. And the UP 4000s have been East of the Mississippi River. One sits in Scranton, PA at Steamtown. UP at the time of the 4000s use did not have 141lb/yard rail so an H-8 would have torn up their track. The axle loading on the 4000s was 34 tons max while the H-8s had an 40 ton axle loading.
If you guys have never watched this in person and been on the actual train youre missing out
These locos were larger and more powerful than the UP "Big Boys"?
Horsepower wise, yes
@krirre, they weighed around 544 tons
Didn’t mention 1604....
The Big Boy never truly had a documented top speed
@shnimmuc
Again, I'm not saying that "Big Boy" was the best steam locomotive in the world, nor am I saying that "Big Boy" was the most successful steam locomotive or that there weren't other large successful steam locomotives. All I am saying is that from what I have heard, seen, and gathered from many sources, "Big Boy" was the largest steam locomotive that was deemed successful. Yes, there were locomotives that were bigger/longer than "Big Boy", but they weren't really successful.
Lima Loco. used the Super Power term in the 1920"s.
@shnimmuc
It is widely said that "Big Boy" was the largest successful steam locomotive ever built. I don't make stuff up like that. Look at the St. Louis Museum of Transportation website, and you'll see that when they show a picture of "Big Boy", it says "Unrivalled World-Class Collection! Including the world's largest successful steam locomotive!" I'm not saying "Big Boy" was the most successful steam locomotive. I'm saying he was the largest steam locomotive that was successful.
Great hulking brutes but at the same time beautiful.
I wonder if that thing could be restored to running condition at all.
Actually the AC9 was the one that was not cab forward. I look up your other favorites.
I used to believe that UP's coal firing Big Boys are the biggest and heaviest steamer ever built. 'Till i've googled and found out that Chessie held the title of biggest ,heaviest, and MOST POWERFUL giant steam locomotive. the Allegheny!
By the time it was released, very few RR laid heavy rails to support its sheer weight, by now every A-Class RRs in the US all have GIANT diesels and upgraded its rails, bridges and tunnels for it and its tasks. Remember how GM advertised its F-Unit diesels??
Allegheny vs Big Boy? Who had more power?
Depends. In horsepower (power at speed), the Allegheny is more powerful. In tractive effort, which gets trains started, Big Boy is more powerful.
@trainmandan05 Although it has a better chance - almost all odds are against it still...Money,time, weight, railroads. Even though these engines are more heavy then the Big Boys..tracks remain the same..
Thank your lucky stars they didn't all go for scrap like so many others.
@bubblejomay
In regards to the tractive effort, I used what is listed for both locomotives on Wes Barris' website. If you want, I'll send you the link to it. In regards to the speed, I used both this video and many sources about 'Big Boy' for the info. In regards to the length of time they were in service, I (again) used this video and many sources about 'Big Boy' for the info. In regards to my opinion, well, it's my opinion. No one can say someone's opinion is wrong.
Nice vid.
I wonder if this is the only video of an original allegheny in motion. If there is a full verison or complete video about this and other C&O steam enignes please let me know.
Outside? It was moved inside like two years ago!
You ought to see the one in the B&O Museum in Baltimore. It just sits there outside and decays away in the elements. Very sad indeed.
@razgrizaceblaze259 Thank you.
So if you're rich, you can't buy one?
I really enjoyed the video, but like other people who commented,I WISH YOU HAD DONE SOMETHING TO GET RID OF THE BACKGROUND NOISE.
With big boy coming back oil fired ed dickens said they will get deep into the 7000 + hbp range so the battle continues
@MrAquarium -
Actually, by observing the methods used by the various RR's as they tested their locos you can get an accurate look at what loco was the most powerful. That would be the N&W Y6b's 170,000 TE in simple. Pretty impressive for a loco that weighs less than the Allegheny. Unlike the VGN 2-8-8-8-4's or 2-10-10-2's teh Y6b TE was sustainable.
Except the Y6s could not produce the HP that the H-8s could. As mentioned, they weren't put to there best use except on the Northern Sub. There they could roll the trains at 45 MPH and develop up to 7500 HP. If you got the train started with an H-8, then it could roll it at speed. Even with their great weight, they could still slip their drivers. When the 1604 was at Roanoke next to the 1218, it made the 1218 look like the runt of the litter. Too bad the N&W got rid of all the Virginian AG class locos. But they couldn't have a Virginian loco showing up their home-built power.
@@gravelydon7072 Its not as important as Tractive effort. The Y5's - Y6b's could outpull the H8's and Bigboys. 166,800 for the Y's Also the intercepter was manual on them. The were able to get out to over 50 MPH.
@@gravelydon7072 So, technically, N&W owned Allegheny class locomotives, of the Virginian, for a short period of time!! Interesting!!
Very interesting!
Think of the possibilities if N&W would have kept just one Virginian 2-6-6-6 for posterity!! 🤔
@claimless It could be possible, but the cost of restoring and operating this mammoth would be rediculously high.
How fast were the allenghenys? I no they were fast but iont no there exact top speed I no big boys top speed was 80mph
Maybe someone will fire it up again one of these days. Steam locomotive restoration seems to be pretty wide spread now.
Cut the blood?? background racket
I think I'm hearing "We Shall Overcome (some day) " in the background ! ! ! Wha ????.........
I remember when these old Lima's were new, they were a power house.
Saves a trip to Dearborn!;)
Visited the 1601 today and found a very small piece of coal in the ash pan. If only it could talk.
why was the Alleghenys more powerfull then the bigboys ?
Steeper mountain range maybe, and coal trains can be very heavy.
In terms of horsepower.
@razgrizaceblaze259 I often wonder why the person that wrote Big Boy on the firebox of the 4000 never came forword and said he did it, or why someone that knows doesn't say it if the person isn't with us anymore.
But will all do respect, Any Giant steam is an awesome site and machine, and the respect goes to those who designed and those who built them.
whow!! Allegheny vs big boy : who wins?
all the programs i have about the big boys have stated there top speed was 80mph
They should restore her to running condition.
@JeffHendrie length is all that gives the big boy a name. The Alleghenny's firebox and boiler were both larger in size than that of the big boys. Big al also produced more tractive effort and horse power. big No diesel has yet to reach the horspower of the Alleghennys. Big Boy has allready been beat!
I’ll eat my hat! Allegheny 110,000 vs BB 135,375 TE.
Too disturbing background music/noise
Poor sound! It sounds as if two or more sound tracks are playing at the same time which makes understanding it difficult!
Well if an allegheny is the HEAVIEST locomotive in the world does that mean that a UP Big Boy has a better chance of being put back on the high iron?
That fact is debatable! Much Skullduggery surrounding Allegheny weight. I’ve heard it was really around 755,000lbs not 788,000. Not a bad loco though.
The Alleghennys were never tested at speed because the C&O used them for coal drags instead of what they were capable of.
They never tested them at more than 45MPH on freight but they did run them at up to 60MPH on war time troop trains. In coal drag service, they really wasted a good loco. In fact, going East they wasted two of them as they used one on front and one on the rear and the second one shoved the first thru a tunnel and then the first pulled the train and second one thru the tunnel.
@Dartgame 340 It was designed for higher speed freight but ended up in slow speed drag service. If they had used it in high speed coal movement, it wouldn't have been a waste. They finally put them to proper use when the Diesels bumped them off the Division and they were put to work on the Northern Division. Where they rolled the freights in the speeds that they were designed for. These were not drag engines, they were engines built for speed. These engines could run at 60MPH if needed which is far different than 15MPH service.
'
where is the - CAR - on the train at 113 to 118
Wider, but not as long. The length adds more size than the width on the BB, so even without tender, Big Boy really is the largest.
The BBs also had more wheels, thus more weight allowed on it, and this makes it able to pull VERY long trains. However, Als were able to bring up more horsepower easily, and weighed more.
For an odd reason, no one knows how long the train can be for an Al. Probably as much as a BB but faster.
Really, though, I really hate debates like this. Just say they're equal.
The BBs were shorter in height also and not as powerful. But the BBs could start a heavier train than the H-8s but the BBs could not really roll them at the speed that the H-8s could because of the poorer quality coal the UP had. The H-8s had far better coal so could steam better. How long a train can an H-8 pull? How many broken drawbars do you want? Want to make a good comparison, compare an H-8 to a Challenger. Same number of driving axles, same number of non-powered axles on the loco. ;-)
- Continued
Does Allegheny still too heavy to run on any A-class trackage? supposed that all A-classes reverted to (coal-firing) steam (due to a bleeding diesel prices, and an unexpected high upkeeps of diesel locomotives (?? an academic research thesis did indeed found out that way. honest! ;))
Interesting video: but the background "music" is an unfortunate distraction. Further, the Allegheny did not overcome!
@razgrizaceblaze259 Never said you were wrong, just that I have heard and have seen so many statistics and statements that the allegheney had more tractive power than the big boy. Would like to see you info, thanks.
Just image if the they brought one of the Alleghenys out of retirement, restored it and ran it, and even threw in some doubleheaders with the 4014. Just picture it
Great visual, expect the Earth to temporarily rotate backwards during said doubleheader.
@@miracleeskimobattleship2874 And does the UP have rail heavy enough for an H-8 to run on? They already spread rails with the 4014. Just think what the 40ton axle loads would do.
Why the hell do we always have to listen to bluegrass music when we see steam locomotives? The Ballad of Casey Jones is a vaudeville number. The Alleghenies were around in the 40's and 50's. Railroads aren't associated with rubes and hicks.
Hard to tell.
There's another advantage the Alleghenies have over the Big Boys: Factor of Adhesion.
If it had such great adhesion why was its TE lower???? If you can’t start the train you can’t pull it!
@floydrandol2731 Its tractive effort is lower because it has a smaller cylinder bore and lower boiler pressure. Yeah, the Big Boy can start a heavier train than the Allegheny, but the Allegheny can pull the same load faster.
You really need to get rid of that crappy music noise whatever it is drowning out the narrators dialogue
Horsepower
Big Boy: 6,290
Allegheny: 7,498
Tractive Effort
Big Boy: 135,375 lbs
Allegheny: 110,200 lbs
Oh dear...
09trainman Highest Horsepower PRR Q2 (4-4-6-4) 7987@57.4 (IHP).
Patrick Taylor I know.
+09trainman Good lord!! I Don't think its right to scrap an Engine Monster
H F McBain It's not right to scrap ANY locomotive. The Big Boy can get a heavier train started, but the Allegheny can pull more at speed.
Yeah, and only 8 of the Big Boys were preserved
true
@razgrizaceblaze259 Are you sure about this, can you prove what you have written?
The audio track is unpleasant, the announcer is clear, banjo music pleasant... but...
@bubblejomay
First, I wasn't trying to imply you said my opinion was wrong. I was just explaining where I got everything for each statement I made, and I guess I got carried away with the opinion part. Sorry. Anyway, I'll send you a message containing a link to the website where I got the info about tractive effort.
WTF is up with the goofy soundtrack on this otherwise short, basic, but moderately interesting video?? It's some rendition of "We Shall Overcome" scratchy playing in the background. Very distracting, and just weird. I would fix this!
That's what happens when your museum is near Detroit! Too many different types of people to please! And we all know you can't please all of the people all of the time! Yes the background music(?) was distracting and annoying!
I really wanted to watch this clip but the VERY distracting yelling or whatever it was in the background prevented me from continuing.
OMG that is big
Oops.....I knew that!!! Not sure why I said AC-10
How is a single Allegheny capable of pulling 27,000,000 lbs worth of coal cars with it's 110,200 lbs of tractive effort?
+09trainman Because the coal cars are steel wheels rolling on steel rails, with minimal rolling resistance.
Paul Langford Oh right, that makes sense. *remembers how much a single DM&IR Yellowstone can carry on the flats* The power of locomotives in general is amazing!
Well you have to remember you're not talking about lifting the train up in the air.
That's the reason railroads are so efficient: steel wheels on steel rails have vey low rolling resistance, so once moving it doesn't take much to keep them going.