It's absolutely criminal that none of these things were preserved; they're amongst my favourite American steamers (alongside the PRR S1 and UP Challenger).
Well the central's check engineer by the 50s didn't want ANY steamers preserved, yet 4 are preserved: the two mohawks, a 0-6-0 I forgot the number of, and 999. Also just because a class wasn't preserved doesn't mean we're ruthless steam scrappers.
Awesome video. The New York Central Niagara is another wonderful steam locomotive. It’s no wonder that they were all scrapped, they could’ve been preserved along with the famous NYC Hudson’s. They look similar to the Union Pacific FEF-class 4-8-4’s like 844.
Unlike the UP, the New York Central was heavily in the red, mostly from lost passenger train revenue. Scrap money was still money, so off they all went to the scrap yard. There were online cities interested in a donated locomotive. Not to be.
Great video! So happy we have "one Niagara preserved"! So sad that the actual ones never came to the 21st century... no matter! Can't wait for the S-Motor video! - Sid
Legend has it, the scrappers that were due to scrap 6015, the last one to go, it is claimed thet heard one night, chaisaw noises and mad laughter, one even claimed he heard: I WANT THAT STEAM ENGINE, seconds befor the noises began, from where they stored her. The next day, they found her obliterated, crushed, in peices, CHAINSAWED!
@@brendenoneill3068 hmmmm, let's see, aha maybe that mowhawk there set for pre, wait what is Alfred E perlman do.. I WANT THAT STEAM ENGINE BRRRRRRZZZZZTTTTT
Amazing video! The Niagaras are easily one of my favorite steam locomotives, as they were exactly what the railroad needed. Too bad they were made kinda late into the steam era, if created earlier one may be in preservation.
These are my favorite NYC steamers. The S motors sound really cool too, can't wait to see that when it's finished. There's a few pictures I have in a book showing a few of those still in existence during the early years of Conrail.
Love the thumbnail pic of the Niagara with the Michigan Central Station in the background! I grew up walking distance from there, at one time it was a center of activity in the neighborhood.
The NYC "Niagara" was a very handsome example of a 4-8-4 type steam locomotive, it is a true shame that none of these class s1b engines were saved from the scrap yards as I do wish that was the case. I would really enjoy to see a NYC rr "Hudson" and a "Niagara" type on display at a railroad museum today & these two locomotive classes are arguably the most famous of all the NYC rr system steam power.
Shame that none of the original New York Central Niagaras were preserved, not even one. They were such dependable steam locomotives. But it's very cool that a miniature live steam railway in England has a "Mini Niagara" in their collection. Nice video you put together of their history. By the way, passenger steam operations on the New York Central's Water Level Route went from Chicago to CROTON-ON-HUDSON, NY, not New York City. Croton-on-Hudson, NY to New York's Grand Central Terminal on the Water Level Route was handled by electrics at the time the Niagaras existed.
No doubt about it but the Niagara's are my favorite steam locomotives. These locomotives were gorgeous and so economical. I've been waiting for this video for years and I'M SO HAPPY its out. OUTSTANDING JOB JARED! Keep up the amazing work buddy!
I've been looking forward to this video for a while, and it sure didn't disappoint! It should be noted that the biggest reason for the Niagara's extreme efficiency was the fact that they were cross-compound steam locomotives, meaning they got fresh steam to one cylinder, which then exhausted the steam to the other cylinder. I believe the steam was re-superheated on its way to the second cylinder. The Niagara is definitely one of my favorite locomotive designs of all time, right there with the Lima Berkshires.
Can you do something about New York Central passenger train series? For the 20th century limited Empire State Express Knickerbocker New England states and others?
The epitome of steam locomotives. What a shame that none were preserved. But, as you stated, dieselization started in the East and moved west. I am very grateful to Union Pacific for preserving what they have preserved.
There’s a Niagara at the New Hope and Ivyland yard (scenic railroad). It’s from a Mexican railway. I included it in my video of the New Hope on my channel. Awesome video!
Those are "Niagras" in name only. The only thing an NdeM QR-1 Niagra has in common with an NYC S-1 or S-2 Niagara is the wheel arrangement. The Mexican "Niagras"were named in honor of the NYC "Niagaras."
Nice video, I had no idea about the duplex concept of the Niagara until this video came out. On a side note, I have RWS Fan Series in the works that involves not just a Niagara being preserved, but the construction of the first C-1a duplex.
In 1955 my mother did take me to Louisiana on the L&N Hummingbird, behind a diesel, to visit her family! Don't recall much at 4 years old, but loved being on the train!
One tid bit i heard i believe in the sunday river vids, the narrator mentioned the niagras wheels were so well balanced with the siderods (eg* the footage of people pulling it) that it was balanced for 120mph!
Question. What were the, as my grandfather called them, "elephant ears", on the front of the engine for? I'm guessing streamlining of some kind or just style points?
Elephant ears is just a nickname for smoke deflectors. As the name implies, they prevent smoke from obscuring the engineer & fireman's vision as well as preventing cinders from flying into their faces.
I absolutely love the Niagara's so much that I got Lionel's VisionLine Legacy model of one the 6019 which was a LCCA exclusive and I have all of Herron Rail's NYC dvd's which a few of em feature Niagara's in northern Ohio between Cleveland and Toledo and there's a feature in one of em where it has the Niagara racing the Pennsy.
I'm pretty sure there's atleast some Niagara number plates still in existence, I saw one for sale on Ebay once, and I think there's one or more at the National New York Central museum.
Mark my words, if I EVER come into an absolutely disgusting amount of wealth in the future, I will create a Niagara Engine Trust and I WILL build a new Niagara locomotive.
Here's hoping for a new build. I'd pay gladly to be on the first run, such a beautiful design. Maybe one day in the future we can get a T1, 844, and a Niagara together for an event.
@@NW-gi1cp Series of 32 4-8-4 locomotives that were built by ALCO and Baldwin in 1946 for the NdeM. Officials for the NdeM were invited by ALCO to tour the Schenectady shops and see the ALCO-built Class QR-1s as they were being built. While there, the NdeM officials saw one of the NYC’s Niagaras being constructed, and were highly impressed. So the NdeM decided to name their 4-8-4s after the Central’s own 4-8-4s. And thankfully, Perlman couldn’t scrap these Niagaras as the NdeM was very generous with steam preservation. A total 12 of the class were preserved. One of them, No. 3028, was acquired by the New Hope & Ivyland, and is in storage awaiting potential restoration to operating condition.
Way more New York Central Steam Locomotives would have been preserved if either Alfred E Pearlman would just chill and let them get preserved, or if the NYC hired somebody for president who liked preserving steam locomotives.
There's a video with a recording of the Niagara's horn. They were a bit more high pitched than the GG1's horn, and the whistle had deep minor triad chords with musical notes A-C-E
We’re getting the S Motors?! The T Motors must be on this series at some point then too!!! Let’s hope it get everyone aware of 278 and we can possibly eventually drag that poor thing out of those woods!!!
I love the Niagaras. I wish the New Build Niagara would happen, I know most of train fans want the New Build NYC Hudson to happen first, and I don't blame them either, I blame Al Pearlman for not preserving one or few of NYC Niagaras and Hudsons! I would like a New Build Niagara to happen, We have Daylight 4449 and J class 611 preserved since they're both streamlined 4-8-4's, while a NYC Niagara and Union Pacific's never retired FEF-3 844 were very similar! I wish NYC have a chairman like the one Southern Pacific (that preserved 4449), Norfolk and Western (that saved 611), or the Union Pacific (that not only saved four FEF's, but kept running 844) have.
I do get why the Hudson’s and Niagaras went extinct. NYC was in bad financial shape because of that stupid overregulation and non rail competition. On top of that Alfred E Perlman couldn’t be lenient on preservation because his railroad needed to get as much scrap value from their steam locomotives as possible. Either you buy that locomotive at scrap value(such as 3001), or you watch it get scrapped. It was a sacrifice that was needed to help keep the railroad afloat in the long run, eventually getting the railroad back in shape before 1962. That was what ultimately led to Perlman allowing his railroad to give 2933 to the NMOT.
These became my favorite locomotive They were the ultimate locomotive at the time, Until Norfolk and Western acquired the J Class Honestly the Niagara and J Class are almost on equal, I say this because the Niagara's had 60,000+ Tractive Effort and Some J's had 73,000 tractive effort and 611 herself has a tractive effort of 80,000 The advantage the Niagara's had was the water scoop on the tender and didn’t need to stop The J's had roller bearing side rods, self lubrication systems and bigger boilers So the Niagara and the J Class could be considered the strongest of the 4-8-4 wheel arrangement
The Niagaras also had roller bearing side rods, but the Js also had roller bearings on their valve gear. The Js, like the Niagaras, also ride very smoothly even at speed despite having comparatively small 70" drivers. Both are still easily the best of the 4-8-4 wheel arrangement.
@@09JDCTrainMan They’re both the best in terms of their different terrains. The J’s were vastly better climbers, and could easily sprint trains over 110 mph. At the same time, I don’t think they would be able to hold those speeds on the flat continuously. 610 only managed a maximum of 111 mph during its time on the Pennsy, but even with under half the mileage of the NYC, still managed to break its valve gear. The Niagara’s meanwhile were far more optimized for continuous, fast running. I don’t even know how they’d handle trains over long grades, being lightweight and having a serious drop in horsepower from the cylinders to the drawbar. At least we can say the Niagara would most likely be able to run anywhere thanks to being so short. I think they stood about a foot shorter than the J’s, and most other 4-8-4’s for that matter
@@russellgxy2905 Terrains, yes. Also, from what I read, 610's valve gear only broke because she lost lubrication after traveling about 2,100 miles without refilling the lubricaters, not the 111 mph running. The fact that the J can even reach triple digit speeds at all with just 70" drivers is impressive to me. But yes, the Niagara should be faster by default due to having larger driving wheels. Still, it's true, the J is best 4-8-4 in the mountains while the Niagara is the best 4-8-4 on the flats.
Sad that the NYC had the best 4-8-4 (at least for flat terrain) then things got complicated and they had to destroy almost everything to save the company that ended up bankrupt anyway
I agree! I loved the steam engines but was born in 1951- I saw and rode behind a few like the 611 and 765 because my mother in law wanted to ride them in the 1980s! But most were gone by the late50s/early 60s when I was old enough to remember!
I really enjoy your videos on different railroads/railways, and your videos on the difference Amtrak locomotives like the F-40, and mainly the P-30CH POOCH, considering I myself am a huge fan of the P-30CH POOCH. I was wondering if sometime sooner than later, if you could do a video on the old Southern Railway, and the old Norfolk & Western Railway's ?
Great vid! Really wished a Niagara was preserved. Maybe a trust group (like the PRR T1 Trust) could rebuild one or a Hudson. Edit: DAMN AL PEARLMAN chain in the comments pls.
I agree, I would expect the Niagara. I know most train enthusiast wants the Hudson first, but I'm dying to hear if the new build Niagara would happen, but hudson would go first. DAMN, AL PEARLMAN FOR HAVING ALL NIAGARAS, AND HUDSONS SCRAPPED!!! I'm not blaming those who wants the new build hudson first, I'm blaming Al Pearlman!
The 'damn al pearlman' comments make you people look stupid and ignorant of what the facts actually are. "Books are the everbearing lamp of accumulated wisdom" not internet chat room BS
NYC literally had some of the best steam locomotives ever built and threw them all away just to end up becoming a shadow of its former self, and eventually merginf into onw of the biggest failures in the history of any merger.
Oh my giddy aunt. The NYC's extreme high pressure 4-8-4 featured at 0:44-1:00. They have should have learnt from the LMS's own 'Fury' fiasco in 1930 when a pipe burst... and killed someone.
Really beauties. And it is a shame that none of them were preserved. She reminds me of the A1 from andre chapelion. Unfortunately also not preserved. 😢
The Niagaras handled 1000-ton trains at speeds up to 100mph, at least on tests, and before 1948. It was about that time that the Interstate Commerce Commision limited trains without cab signals to around 80 mph
I have a Broadway Limited Imports HO model of number 6004. These engines are simply beautiful and a shame none were saved. also couldnt help but notice the Team Fortress 2 background music XD
Not really. Despite also being built by ALCo, having even larger drivers for slightly higher speed and looking similar, the Niagara was still the more efficient design, with a bigger boiler for better steaming capacity and roller bearing rods.
Can someone explain to me what is the advantage difference between wheels arrangements? I.E. same driving wheel but different leading or trailing wheel : 4-8-4 vs 4-8-2 Or same leading and trailing wheel but different driving wheel : 4-6-4 vs 4-8-4.
There are three main advantages of 4-8-2/4s over 4-6-2/4s: Greater acceleration Bigger boilers Larger Ashpans. Eight driving wheels are going to move more faster than six, it can support a longer and taller boiler and so has more steaming capacity and a four wheel rear truck is going to allow for a much bigger ash pan and firebox. So it can burn more fuel and a lower grade of it. The downside is that the engine is very long, very ridged and you need to be sure it’ll have work to do for it to be economical.
The Niagaras did not have a 3 chime Hancock long bell whistle. They came from ALCO with a 6 chamber chime whistle (probably manufactured by Nathan). The WABCO (Westinghouse Air Brake Company) Pneuphonic air horn was added to the Niagaras between 1946 and 1947 in response to engineers stating that they could not hear the 6 chime whistle when running at track speed in bad weather with the cab windows closed. It was mounted on the boiler in front of the engineer's side of the cab. The New York Central Standards book specified the use of a 3 chamber "long bell" whistle for all locomotives operating on the Putnam and Harlem divisions and all K-11 Pacifics running on the River division. This information was taken from the book Know Thy Niagaras by author Thomas Gerbracht.
@@danikoo582 No it is not. The production Niagaras had a boiler pressure of 275 psi and the Nathan 6 chime whistle was more than capable of handling that pressure. If you can obtain a copy of Know Thy Niagaras by Thomas Gerbracht you can read all about it. If you want to hear how that 6 chime sounds check out the You Tube video "Western Maryland 1309: Articulated in an Allegheny Autumn.
Funny thing about the S-2a. Its tender was actually slightly different than the rest of the Niagara’s too, a PT-6. Same wheel layout, same 9ft+ overhang, but it held a ton more coal and I think 2,000 gallons less water. Why they thought water capacity needed to be lower when the Niagara boilers already had high steam rates and added a ton more coal when the 5500 actually burned _less_ coal than its older siblings, I have no clue. It also had pitfall as the PRR T1 in being a bit too powerful for its motion. Franklin-Caprotti probably would’ve been fine, and NYC 5500 could’ve been the most powerful dual-service steam locomotive outside of articulateds and duplexes. Problem was the poppet valves, Type A, couldn’t accommodate the engine’s steaming rate. Had it been given Type B valves with rotary cams (as on PRR’s 5500), then it would probably be a much better performer. Definitely would’ve been a bit easier to maintain since Type A’s valves sit between the cylinders. It’s also why 5500 has its air pumps on the side instead of in front of the smokebox
En mi ciudad en el centro de México aún tenemos una locomotora Niágara de nacionales de México, no está operativa pero se encuentra en un estado aceptable
@@SuperFoxyRailwayProduction6702 I know. The NYC Niagara’s are amazing. They are similar to the Union Pacific FEF-class locomotives, like Union Pacific 844.
@@amtrakp4242 It’s quite true, the New York Central Niagara’s are similar to the Union Pacific FEF-class locomotives and Union Pacific 844 is one of them. To be honest. We all know that.
I’ve studied the Niagara quite a bit. A couple things to note. My research tells me the Niagaras used WABCO E2 air horns, and the whistles were unique to NYC. Rizzoli locomotive works cast one in the past that was close.
It's absolutely criminal that none of these things were preserved; they're amongst my favourite American steamers (alongside the PRR S1 and UP Challenger).
Americans in a nutshell
Well the central's check engineer by the 50s didn't want ANY steamers preserved, yet 4 are preserved: the two mohawks, a 0-6-0 I forgot the number of, and 999. Also just because a class wasn't preserved doesn't mean we're ruthless steam scrappers.
@@unionpacific8448 srsly?
Same goes for the Hudsons
not normaly a fan of american trains myself, but the NYC stuff is always cool especially the streamlined stuff
Awesome video. The New York Central Niagara is another wonderful steam locomotive. It’s no wonder that they were all scrapped, they could’ve been preserved along with the famous NYC Hudson’s. They look similar to the Union Pacific FEF-class 4-8-4’s like 844.
well tbh the nyc s class up fef class and milw s class were all built by alco.
Unlike the UP, the New York Central was heavily in the red, mostly from lost passenger train revenue. Scrap money was still money, so off they all went to the scrap yard. There were online cities interested in a donated locomotive. Not to be.
Great video! So happy we have "one Niagara preserved"! So sad that the actual ones never came to the 21st century... no matter! Can't wait for the S-Motor video! - Sid
Legend has it, the scrappers that were due to scrap 6015, the last one to go, it is claimed thet heard one night, chaisaw noises and mad laughter, one even claimed he heard: I WANT THAT STEAM ENGINE, seconds befor the noises began, from where they stored her. The next day, they found her obliterated, crushed, in peices, CHAINSAWED!
Who could do this with a chainsaw. And yell wanting the steam engine?
@@brendenoneill3068 hmmmm, let's see, aha maybe that mowhawk there set for pre, wait what is Alfred E perlman do.. I WANT THAT STEAM ENGINE BRRRRRRZZZZZTTTTT
@brendenoneill3068 it's a history in the dark reference words of advice don't watch him
Why? @@Odinthefloof
cringe
To be honest the New York Central's "Niagara" engines will always hold a special place in my heart as the No. 1 NYC steam engines.
Amazing video! The Niagaras are easily one of my favorite steam locomotives, as they were exactly what the railroad needed. Too bad they were made kinda late into the steam era, if created earlier one may be in preservation.
Probably would've either had to be hidden under crates or sold to another railroad like thr two mohawks
seems like everyone had it out for them back then
Well the Hudsons were around since the 1930's and they were all scrapped too.
I really the ndem niagaras is made from preservation in mexico
Can't wait for the next one! Excellent job as always
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
These are my favorite NYC steamers. The S motors sound really cool too, can't wait to see that when it's finished. There's a few pictures I have in a book showing a few of those still in existence during the early years of Conrail.
Love the thumbnail pic of the Niagara with the Michigan Central Station in the background! I grew up walking distance from there, at one time it was a center of activity in the neighborhood.
You know that station building is now owned by Ford, which is ironic, right?
@@krismangila1594 yep it’s going to be their Innovation and Mobility Campus along with housing leased office space.
I'm loving this serie, can't wait for more episodes!
The NYC "Niagara" was a very handsome example of a 4-8-4 type steam locomotive, it is a true shame that none of these class s1b engines were saved from the scrap yards as I do wish that was the case. I would really enjoy to see a NYC rr "Hudson" and a "Niagara" type on display at a railroad museum today & these two locomotive classes are arguably the most famous of all the NYC rr system steam power.
Such clean lines on these, absolutely beautiful locomotives.
Shame that none of the original New York Central Niagaras were preserved, not even one. They were such dependable steam locomotives. But it's very cool that a miniature live steam railway in England has a "Mini Niagara" in their collection. Nice video you put together of their history. By the way, passenger steam operations on the New York Central's Water Level Route went from Chicago to CROTON-ON-HUDSON, NY, not New York City. Croton-on-Hudson, NY to New York's Grand Central Terminal on the Water Level Route was handled by electrics at the time the Niagaras existed.
No doubt about it but the Niagara's are my favorite steam locomotives.
These locomotives were gorgeous and so economical. I've been waiting for this video for years and I'M SO HAPPY its out. OUTSTANDING JOB JARED! Keep up the amazing work buddy!
I've been looking forward to this video for a while, and it sure didn't disappoint! It should be noted that the biggest reason for the Niagara's extreme efficiency was the fact that they were cross-compound steam locomotives, meaning they got fresh steam to one cylinder, which then exhausted the steam to the other cylinder. I believe the steam was re-superheated on its way to the second cylinder. The Niagara is definitely one of my favorite locomotive designs of all time, right there with the Lima Berkshires.
The Niagaras were not compounds. The cylinders were of the same size.
Omg your back :D
Nice history video! 👍🏿
FINALLY! My favourite series on youtube! Continue, please, continue!
Thanks Jared!!!!
Can you do something about New York Central passenger train series? For the 20th century limited Empire State Express Knickerbocker New England states and others?
The epitome of steam locomotives. What a shame that none were preserved. But, as you stated, dieselization started in the East and moved west. I am very grateful to Union Pacific for preserving what they have preserved.
There’s a Niagara at the New Hope and Ivyland yard (scenic railroad). It’s from a Mexican railway. I included it in my video of the New Hope on my channel. Awesome video!
Those are "Niagras" in name only. The only thing an NdeM QR-1 Niagra has in common with an NYC S-1 or S-2 Niagara is the wheel arrangement. The Mexican "Niagras"were named in honor of the NYC "Niagaras."
@@Alcofoamer ahh okay that’s very interesting. I thought it was crazy how they still built them at Alco and shipped them all to the boarder.
The number plate of Niagara locomotive #6012 is on display at the New York Central Railroad Museum in Elkhart, Indiana.
I absolutely love the Niagaras
Me too. They are similar to the Union Pacific FEF-class 4-8-4’s, even UP 844.
@@nathancorcoran5347 I saw that
@@BESTISD what do you mean?
@@BESTISD did you mean that you realized that they are similar to each other?
@@nathancorcoran5347 yeah, I saw that they where similar in design.
I love the subtle use of TF2 music so much. You’re easily my favorite RUclipsr
Nice video, I had no idea about the duplex concept of the Niagara until this video came out.
On a side note, I have RWS Fan Series in the works that involves not just a Niagara being preserved, but the construction of the first C-1a duplex.
In 1955 my mother did take me to Louisiana on the L&N Hummingbird, behind a diesel, to visit her family! Don't recall much at 4 years old, but loved being on the train!
good show
One tid bit i heard i believe in the sunday river vids, the narrator mentioned the niagras wheels were so well balanced with the siderods (eg* the footage of people pulling it) that it was balanced for 120mph!
Question. What were the, as my grandfather called them, "elephant ears", on the front of the engine for? I'm guessing streamlining of some kind or just style points?
Elephant ears is just a nickname for smoke deflectors. As the name implies, they prevent smoke from obscuring the engineer & fireman's vision as well as preventing cinders from flying into their faces.
The whistle at 1:46 is from UP 836 and 833 on possibly one of the UPs last doubleheaders
New ENGINES OF NEW YORK CENTRAL nice like Niagara Falls ( or just me)
I absolutely love the Niagara's so much that I got Lionel's VisionLine Legacy model of one the 6019 which was a LCCA exclusive and I have all of Herron Rail's NYC dvd's which a few of em feature Niagara's in northern Ohio between Cleveland and Toledo and there's a feature in one of em where it has the Niagara racing the Pennsy.
I'm pretty sure there's atleast some Niagara number plates still in existence, I saw one for sale on Ebay once, and I think there's one or more at the National New York Central museum.
Nice video, but the Niagara’s, as did most other late eta NYC steam power, used a Nathan 6 chime whistle.
Mark my words, if I EVER come into an absolutely disgusting amount of wealth in the future, I will create a Niagara Engine Trust and I WILL build a new Niagara locomotive.
Also the j3a Dreyfuss Hudson
@@dangerboyproductions1223 look guy it takes a while to do a lot of things, let’s try and be realistic here.
Ok
Also i'm a 14 year old ok
@@dangerboyproductions1223 noted
LETS FREAKING GOOOOOOOOO NEW EONYC
dam man i don't know how you do it
Here's hoping for a new build. I'd pay gladly to be on the first run, such a beautiful design. Maybe one day in the future we can get a T1, 844, and a Niagara together for an event.
A Niagara newbuild would be nice, but a Dreyfus Hudson would be better.
The Niagara's being scrapped is the most prime example of a steam engine class being done dirty for some quick cash.....rip the Niagara's 😔
But hey at least we got the niagaras of mexico
@@SuperFoxyRailwayProduction6702 what are those 🤨
@@NW-gi1cp Series of 32 4-8-4 locomotives that were built by ALCO and Baldwin in 1946 for the NdeM. Officials for the NdeM were invited by ALCO to tour the Schenectady shops and see the ALCO-built Class QR-1s as they were being built. While there, the NdeM officials saw one of the NYC’s Niagaras being constructed, and were highly impressed. So the NdeM decided to name their 4-8-4s after the Central’s own 4-8-4s.
And thankfully, Perlman couldn’t scrap these Niagaras as the NdeM was very generous with steam preservation. A total 12 of the class were preserved. One of them, No. 3028, was acquired by the New Hope & Ivyland, and is in storage awaiting potential restoration to operating condition.
Way more New York Central Steam Locomotives would have been preserved if either Alfred E Pearlman would just chill and let them get preserved, or if the NYC hired somebody for president who liked preserving steam locomotives.
More ignorance by people pre-disposed to a certain opinion having zero basis in fact
There's a video with a recording of the Niagara's horn. They were a bit more high pitched than the GG1's horn, and the whistle had deep minor triad chords with musical notes A-C-E
I thought there were some Niagara’s remaining. Hmm.
Never knew the New York Central had a miniature model built for England
This is the Sonoma Traintown Railroad’s Miniature Model that is similar to the New York Central Hudson’s. Which is 5212.
A Chad of steam locomotives.
We’re getting the S Motors?! The T Motors must be on this series at some point then too!!! Let’s hope it get everyone aware of 278 and we can possibly eventually drag that poor thing out of those woods!!!
NIAGARA FALLS! Slowly I turned, step by step, inch by inch
I love the Niagaras. I wish the New Build Niagara would happen, I know most of train fans want the New Build NYC Hudson to happen first, and I don't blame them either, I blame Al Pearlman for not preserving one or few of NYC Niagaras and Hudsons! I would like a New Build Niagara to happen, We have Daylight 4449 and J class 611 preserved since they're both streamlined 4-8-4's, while a NYC Niagara and Union Pacific's never retired FEF-3 844 were very similar! I wish NYC have a chairman like the one Southern Pacific (that preserved 4449), Norfolk and Western (that saved 611), or the Union Pacific (that not only saved four FEF's, but kept running 844) have.
I do get why the Hudson’s and Niagaras went extinct. NYC was in bad financial shape because of that stupid overregulation and non rail competition. On top of that Alfred E Perlman couldn’t be lenient on preservation because his railroad needed to get as much scrap value from their steam locomotives as possible. Either you buy that locomotive at scrap value(such as 3001), or you watch it get scrapped. It was a sacrifice that was needed to help keep the railroad afloat in the long run, eventually getting the railroad back in shape before 1962. That was what ultimately led to Perlman allowing his railroad to give 2933 to the NMOT.
These became my favorite locomotive
They were the ultimate locomotive at the time, Until Norfolk and Western acquired the J Class
Honestly the Niagara and J Class are almost on equal, I say this because the Niagara's had 60,000+ Tractive Effort and Some J's had 73,000 tractive effort and 611 herself has a tractive effort of 80,000
The advantage the Niagara's had was the water scoop on the tender and didn’t need to stop
The J's had roller bearing side rods, self lubrication systems and bigger boilers
So the Niagara and the J Class could be considered the strongest of the 4-8-4 wheel arrangement
The Niagaras also had roller bearing side rods, but the Js also had roller bearings on their valve gear. The Js, like the Niagaras, also ride very smoothly even at speed despite having comparatively small 70" drivers. Both are still easily the best of the 4-8-4 wheel arrangement.
Thanks, think I'll be combining the 2 designs into 1
@@09JDCTrainMan They’re both the best in terms of their different terrains. The J’s were vastly better climbers, and could easily sprint trains over 110 mph. At the same time, I don’t think they would be able to hold those speeds on the flat continuously. 610 only managed a maximum of 111 mph during its time on the Pennsy, but even with under half the mileage of the NYC, still managed to break its valve gear. The Niagara’s meanwhile were far more optimized for continuous, fast running. I don’t even know how they’d handle trains over long grades, being lightweight and having a serious drop in horsepower from the cylinders to the drawbar.
At least we can say the Niagara would most likely be able to run anywhere thanks to being so short. I think they stood about a foot shorter than the J’s, and most other 4-8-4’s for that matter
@@russellgxy2905 Terrains, yes. Also, from what I read, 610's valve gear only broke because she lost lubrication after traveling about 2,100 miles without refilling the lubricaters, not the 111 mph running. The fact that the J can even reach triple digit speeds at all with just 70" drivers is impressive to me. But yes, the Niagara should be faster by default due to having larger driving wheels. Still, it's true, the J is best 4-8-4 in the mountains while the Niagara is the best 4-8-4 on the flats.
Sad that the NYC had the best 4-8-4 (at least for flat terrain) then things got complicated and they had to destroy almost everything to save the company that ended up bankrupt anyway
I agree! I loved the steam engines but was born in 1951- I saw and rode behind a few like the 611 and 765 because my mother in law wanted to ride them in the 1980s! But most were gone by the late50s/early 60s when I was old enough to remember!
4-8-4 is my favorite steam locomotive wheel arrangement
Same
4-6-4 for me
I really enjoy your videos on different railroads/railways, and your videos on the difference Amtrak locomotives like the F-40, and mainly the P-30CH POOCH, considering I myself am a huge fan of the P-30CH POOCH. I was wondering if sometime sooner than later, if you could do a video on the old Southern Railway, and the old Norfolk & Western Railway's ?
Great vid! Really wished a Niagara was preserved. Maybe a trust group (like the PRR T1 Trust) could rebuild one or a Hudson.
Edit: DAMN AL PEARLMAN chain in the comments pls.
Darn it Pearlman
@@AndrewTheRocketCityRailfan4014 lol
I agree, I would expect the Niagara. I know most train enthusiast wants the Hudson first, but I'm dying to hear if the new build Niagara would happen, but hudson would go first. DAMN, AL PEARLMAN FOR HAVING ALL NIAGARAS, AND HUDSONS SCRAPPED!!! I'm not blaming those who wants the new build hudson first, I'm blaming Al Pearlman!
@@davidstrawn9272 DAMN AL PEARLMAN
The 'damn al pearlman' comments make you people look stupid and ignorant of what the facts actually are. "Books are the everbearing lamp of accumulated wisdom" not internet chat room BS
NYC literally had some of the best steam locomotives ever built and threw them all away just to end up becoming a shadow of its former self, and eventually merginf into onw of the biggest failures in the history of any merger.
It is sad how the New York Central scraped most of their steam locomotives but at lest we have models
Its ended :/ i think
@@Arturobrito0502 not quite, he has to do the GE P32-8BWH.
@@nathancorcoran5347 oh right
@@nathancorcoran5347 he also need to redo the genies locomotives
@@DRGW492 That’s Right.
4-8-4s are my favorite type of steam locomotives
It's time again guys! Sit down on the circle carpet!
Can you do a NYC 2-8-4
A yes the niagara one my of my favorite streamline locomotives ever
hey jared i have a cool idea !
you should complete engines of new york central part 5!!!
Would these have ever been used on the Buffalo to Detroit Canada Southern Route that the NY Central ran?
#NYCS1bTrust
We need this to happen.
An absolutely beautiful engine that was never saved for preservation unfortunately.
This video is approved by Rodney Kantowski.
I hope one day, someone will make a replica/new example of a NYC Niagara. They were truly awesome locomotives.
you and High Iron are my go to for american rail history
Oh my giddy aunt. The NYC's extreme high pressure 4-8-4 featured at 0:44-1:00. They have should have learnt from the LMS's own 'Fury' fiasco in 1930 when a pipe burst... and killed someone.
Really beauties. And it is a shame that none of them were preserved. She reminds me of the A1 from andre chapelion. Unfortunately also not preserved. 😢
Perhaps the best owner of the best wheel arrangement of all time…
a 4-4-4-4 niagara would've been one hell of a thing to see
The Niagaras handled 1000-ton trains at speeds up to 100mph, at least on tests, and before 1948. It was about that time that the Interstate Commerce Commision limited trains without cab signals to around 80 mph
Very cool I like New York Central railroad
as a big PRR fan, they are my favorite NYC engine, fast, powerful and useful.
I have a Broadway Limited Imports HO model of number 6004. These engines are simply beautiful and a shame none were saved. also couldnt help but notice the Team Fortress 2 background music XD
I thought the Niagara had a small steam dome that was canted off to the side of the boiler?
Good vid!
Do the FEF3s also count as the "ultimate steam locomotive" too?
Not really. Despite also being built by ALCo, having even larger drivers for slightly higher speed and looking similar, the Niagara was still the more efficient design, with a bigger boiler for better steaming capacity and roller bearing rods.
Can someone explain to me what is the advantage difference between wheels arrangements?
I.E. same driving wheel but different leading or trailing wheel : 4-8-4 vs 4-8-2
Or same leading and trailing wheel but different driving wheel : 4-6-4 vs 4-8-4.
There are three main advantages of 4-8-2/4s over 4-6-2/4s:
Greater acceleration
Bigger boilers
Larger Ashpans.
Eight driving wheels are going to move more faster than six, it can support a longer and taller boiler and so has more steaming capacity and a four wheel rear truck is going to allow for a much bigger ash pan and firebox. So it can burn more fuel and a lower grade of it.
The downside is that the engine is very long, very ridged and you need to be sure it’ll have work to do for it to be economical.
didnt the niagras wear nathan 6 chimes at some point?
The Niagaras did not have a 3 chime Hancock long bell whistle. They came from ALCO with a 6 chamber chime whistle (probably manufactured by Nathan). The WABCO (Westinghouse Air Brake Company) Pneuphonic air horn was added to the Niagaras between 1946 and 1947 in response to engineers stating that they could not hear the 6 chime whistle when running at track speed in bad weather with the cab windows closed. It was mounted on the boiler in front of the engineer's side of the cab. The New York Central Standards book specified the use of a 3 chamber "long bell" whistle for all locomotives operating on the Putnam and Harlem divisions and all K-11 Pacifics running on the River division. This information was taken from the book Know Thy Niagaras by author Thomas Gerbracht.
Isn't the Hancock 3 chimes the only whistle that could take over 250 PSI? Because the Niagara had high boiler pressure
@@danikoo582 No it is not. The production Niagaras had a boiler pressure of 275 psi and the Nathan 6 chime whistle was more than capable of handling that pressure. If you can obtain a copy of Know Thy Niagaras by Thomas Gerbracht you can read all about it. If you want to hear how that 6 chime sounds check out the You Tube video "Western Maryland 1309: Articulated in an Allegheny Autumn.
from were you got the 3d models ? great video
The Niagara model is payware at K&L Trainz
@@Ohiotrucker1 thanks
@@Ohiotrucker1 Gotta love K&L Trainz. :)
@@jimmyhook4852they're top quality, I am waiting for the EM-1 to be made
@@Ohiotrucker1 For sure =3
Heh for me.... guess what I'm waiting to be made? :3
(You have to say what so that I can provide the answer. ;3)
Can you talk about the Rio Grande 4-8-4’s
Why is it that beautiful machinery cannot be preserved
In the intro I see a very familiar station in my homestate of Michigan and btw I live in st.clair shores mi
R.I.P. NYC Niagaras.😢🚂
Is it me if does the Niagara looked similar to up 844
If you guys run those on trainz from K&L
They can run very hard
I thought Niagaras had NYC 6 Chimes.
From what I’ve read some had Hancock 3 chimes and some had Nathan 6 Chimes
Funny thing about the S-2a. Its tender was actually slightly different than the rest of the Niagara’s too, a PT-6. Same wheel layout, same 9ft+ overhang, but it held a ton more coal and I think 2,000 gallons less water. Why they thought water capacity needed to be lower when the Niagara boilers already had high steam rates and added a ton more coal when the 5500 actually burned _less_ coal than its older siblings, I have no clue.
It also had pitfall as the PRR T1 in being a bit too powerful for its motion. Franklin-Caprotti probably would’ve been fine, and NYC 5500 could’ve been the most powerful dual-service steam locomotive outside of articulateds and duplexes. Problem was the poppet valves, Type A, couldn’t accommodate the engine’s steaming rate. Had it been given Type B valves with rotary cams (as on PRR’s 5500), then it would probably be a much better performer. Definitely would’ve been a bit easier to maintain since Type A’s valves sit between the cylinders. It’s also why 5500 has its air pumps on the side instead of in front of the smokebox
Yeah, thank the T1 Trust that they're fitting PRR 5550 with Type B2 Rotary-Cam Poppet Valves.
@@regularguy7266 Definitely. While Niagara's made too much steam for the Type A valves, the T1's simply ran too fast for them.
The vid in 3:33: They are equipped with roller bearings, so they are easy to move.
Tomy, Ltd: *took note for a future line of toys*
Are you going to do the NYC Pacifics?
The ones that where replaced by Hudson’s?
@@amtrakp4242 Yes.
En mi ciudad en el centro de México aún tenemos una locomotora Niágara de nacionales de México, no está operativa pero se encuentra en un estado aceptable
“I want that steam engine!” Alfred E Perlman, president of the New York Central and Western Pacific Railroads
I wish the Niagara’s where preserved
Yeah, but atleats we got the Niagaras of mexico
@@SuperFoxyRailwayProduction6702 I know. The NYC Niagara’s are amazing. They are similar to the Union Pacific FEF-class locomotives, like Union Pacific 844.
@@nathancorcoran5347 your kinda Right
@@amtrakp4242 It’s quite true, the New York Central Niagara’s are similar to the Union Pacific FEF-class locomotives and Union Pacific 844 is one of them. To be honest. We all know that.
After watching the History in the Dark video in which Alfred Perlman was depicted as a chainsaw-wielding tyrant, this was nice video.
@0:10 Onwards to Bristol! 🐎🐎🐎➰
I’ve studied the Niagara quite a bit.
A couple things to note.
My research tells me the Niagaras used WABCO E2 air horns, and the whistles were unique to NYC. Rizzoli locomotive works cast one in the past that was close.
If penn central happened any earlier then these would probably still be in service as a cost saving measure. :P