Everyone is WRONG about Scott Pilgrim Takes Off
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- I promised I'd make a follow up video about Scott Pilgrim Takes Off, but my future self has other ideas.
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Featuring the voices of:
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0:00 Intro
4:59 The Cast
9:40 The Characters
27:23 The Story
34:26 Who is Scott Pilgrim Now?
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With Music by
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I can't speak for others, but the fact that this is such a bold departure from the original source material, and that just getting to see the characters I like being (generally speaking) the characters I like, any flaws it may possess are far more forgivable than if it were a mediocre or even just ok straightforward adaptation.
Not to mention you should take into account context, we're in a world right now that is drowning in weak corporate remakes with no soul. Scott Pilgrim Takes Off may have flaws, but you'll never convince me it didn't shoot for the moon, and if you ask me, it landed among the stars
weak corperate remakes, like what? P3R? RE4? Dead space?
@@hgmd3284 I was mainly referring to Disney, but go off
@@hgmd3284 Movies and shows bud, no one even brought up videogames in the video itself.
@@Kinochai ah ok. nice to see the gaming space is good on remakes, but movies and tv are nor.
@@hgmd3284I mean, as someone who absolutely adores Persona, I wouldn't say P3 Reload is the most ambitious remake ever. It's a great game for sure, but it definitely plays it straight as a mostly direct adaptation of the original P3, which is kinda what the main commenter was applauding Scott Takes Off for avoiding.
I feel like this entire video...ALMOST makes points? But at the same time, it just feels like instead of engaging with what the show IS, it gets stuck in what it isn't. I dunno if it's self-aware or just ironic that you framed yourself as future Scott here, but you built up this level of expectation and the second the show started departing from that, you got so stuck in it that you let it ruin your own experience.
I don't think it's INVALID to dislike it, I just think that none of the things you listed were that important from my perspective. A lot of them are some of the reasons I LIKE the show. Scott Pilgrim was always a bit of a medium-bender, with the movie setting a standard for how to present a movie that feels like a comic book. The anime is the same. Yeah sometimes the voice lines come out feeling weird and don't quite mesh perfectly with the visuals...because it's an anime. It LOOKS like a dubbed-over anime. Usually smooth, but occasionally at moments of the most animated emotions de-syncing a little. I LOVE that about it. It feels purposeful. I'm pretty sure it WAS purposeful.
With Ramona, I thought it was obvious why she got so obsessed with finding Scott. All of her other relationships ended on her terms. They let her determine her own closure by effectively ignoring that closure. Since she wasn't able to do that with Scott, she was thrown off her pattern. She had one good date and then the relationship was taken from her, and once SHE was the one experiencing loss in a relationship rather than her ex, it forced her into a new perspective, specifically THEIR perspective. That gets mirrored in Gideon being smacked low and needing to change his priorities and get a personality makeover, even if he comes out the other end still evil.
Honestly, I think the only thing needed to fix the majority of the issues you (and most people, for that matter) had would be a second season. Letting Gideon be some kind of threat, expanding on the rest of the cast, getting Steven his goddamn boyfriend, actually...DEALING with Scott's exes. Envy. LISA.
Anyway, this comment is way too long. The tl;dr is: I get it, but I don't agree with the conclusion or even, to a certain extent, the method of criticism at play here. It just doesn't feel compelling. In a show that's still shafting Envy and Lisa after a movie which does the same, Steven not being "extremely serious" doesn't move me much.
This! I wish I was as good with words!
Had the same thoughts skimming through the video. Very passionate opinion on the show supported on very flimsy bases. I was also left wondering if the framing himself as future self was self-aware or not lol
@AbyssalRook i'd say the "being forced into the abandonment you push onto others" thing is also true of todd and it's why i liked his portrayal and more importantly felt like wallace's portrayal fleshed himself out
wallace finding REAL gay love is shattering an entire facade he put up so hard he literally played himself as a character in a movie
I think he just put his expectations far too high and got on the hype train just to get let down when it wasn't perfect. He's taking Scott Pilgrim too seriously, its a silly comic with vegan super powers and video game logic. IM A SCOTT PILGRIM FAN and the comic was what motivated me to move to Toronto. But I don't take it seriously.
@@maggiehatton6881I didn't get that vibe from the video, exactly. I know a lot of people who didn't like it might feel that way, but in this case it feels more like he found something that didn't jive with what he remembered and it jammed itself in his entertainment center and wiggled around til it stopped working.
I think people look at Scott Pilgrim in a really sensible way: That the movie is an adaptation of the comics, and that the anime would be ANOTHER adaptation of the comics.
But not only is the anime not that, the MOVIE wasn't, either. The movie was finished well before the sixth book came out. It was first shown literally a WEEK after the 6th book hit shelves, and hit wide release theaters in the US a little over 2 weeks after that. This is because the movie was written somewhere between the release of the second and third book and conceived after only the first was published. Looking at different Scott Pilgrim properties as adaptations of each other lessens their individual value, in part because it's just...not accurate.
I’ve never seen a comment section with so many long essay responses, from both people agreeing and disagreeing
Think that’s just a really good sign that this whole series is so layered and complex, and that your analysis equally so.
Can’t wait to see what you do next James! You’re one of my favorite RUclipsr essay-ists
Now I understand why the only ex confrontation I liked was Roxie's, it gave actual closure to her and made her anger justifiable.
I think I heard somewhere that Ramona changing her hair colour every day was a way to try to find a "her" she liked, and that's why she always had a disappointed face at the end of every dye until the final now; in the context that she doesn't like herself and her habit of running away in the anime, it makes sense.
You cry over the massacre of Stephen, I cry over the (continuous) shafting of the Twins! They even didn't have an episode about Ramona using them to get at the idea of "upperclassmen dating a junior", because she could as well tell the second twin who came at her: sorry I'm dating your twin already but no! And that's why in the comic they swore to stick together from then on.
And Lisa is again forgotten...
Same here; as much as I liked the anime, I'm so disappointed they didn't give the twins and the other minor characters more scenes and the Lisa erasure 😭
#JusticeForStephenStills
#StephenStills
Actually, the odd delivery made me feel I was watching a dubbed anime, it's not the stylistic choice I would have made but it helped the immersion
Yes, it felt off ina good way
I found it better to think of this as less an adaptation/reimagining of the comics and instead thought of it as a meta sequel like the EVA rebuilds.
Fighting the urge to not talk about my feelings on the EVA rebuilds
And I must resist
Yeah, it definitely feels like "Scott Pilgrim DLC for people who already like the comic". I think it would be way worse as someone's first exposure
I really don't see how the voice acting is a point of complaint, it's super charming and was one of my favourite parts.
Yeah for me the only off thing is that it's a dub but that's intentional to make it look like an anime.
Now this I can kinda get behind.
But yeah, I don't get the reference, so much like one of the Game Grumps when reading ClickHole's Quizzes, I wasn't getting it, and just got frustrated.
Yeah it was really charming and relaxing to me!
I thought it was subpar and watched the series with the japanese dub instead.
Could be that the show was more meant to poke fun at everyone's memory of the source material than the source material itself
Thank fucking god someone feels the way I did about the anime. I felt like a crazy person seeing the way that my friends and tumblr mutuals were reacting to it. I can see that a lot of people disagree with you - us - in the comments here, but you were spot on in the point about the adaptation having no stakes and nothing to say, in my opinion. It really is a lot like Marvel's What If - a reimagining for the sake of reimagining - except the reimagining makes no sense because it's like all of the characters already remember who they were or at least what the cultural zeitgeist remembers them as
It’s called having an unpopular opinion. Everyone has one. Let’s not act like having one means everyone else is wrong. It’s just a different opinion.
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 It's also called shut up.
But for real, I get it, I have no horse in this race, I genuinely couldn't give less of a shit about Scoot, so fire away, but like sheesh. Fella out there just wants validation for their opinion. No need to rub that yeah, consensus says you suck.
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964bro I said 'in my opinion'. who's acting like everyone else is wrong?
I don't think anyone is going to remember the anime in like 2 years, I was watching the video and didn't remember anything, even if I liked it or not, I went to check on my note and I trashed it, pretty much all the points the video make I felt the same way, but what surprises me is not that everybody liked it, is that I didn't even notice (though in my notes says something like, "everybody around me is loving it, people I even respect". but I can't remember who they were, everything about the series is so forgettable and that's most of tv, people love it because people love tv but I love good tv and I like to revisit something I loved, and this is not something I will ever revisit.
FINALLY I THOUGHT I WASTHE ONLY ONE
we are the chosen few
Before watching Takes Off, I had experience with the movie and the first volume of the comics. Neither of them clicked for me, because it felt like for them to be meaningful, it was a prerequisite to relate to Scott at least a little bit, which I don't. Takes Off struck me as interesting early on because the spotlight was on Ramona, a character who I felt better able to relate to, and who had received surprisingly little attention in my (limited) experience with the franchise for being one half of the relationship it's all supposed to be about.
As the show went on, what I found interesting was the question it seemed to be building towards -- is a romantic relationship worthwhile if you know that it will end? Even when the characters weren't explored too deeply, I think the show was at its best when Ramona and her exes remembered what went wrong, acknowledged it, and moved on -- and, similarly, when Scott found out about what *could* go wrong, acknowledged that, and moved forward anyway. In the face of that sort of question, I thought the ending was a cop-out. Ramona "choosing herself" and having some magical transformation certainly parallels Scott's ending in the movie, but I don't know that it had much to do with what the show seemed to be building towards.
Takes Off definitely has its flaws. It's refreshing to see some of them talked about; it makes me feel less alone in having criticisms. Hopefully these comments do the same for you, even if they're not all in agreement.
I cant believe this video only has 10K views, its one of my favorite videos in the last months.
What fascinates me is that to me the Film and the Series are both just goofing arround while it seems like the comics actually goes deep on human emotions. The band coming back together in the end of the series, having gone barely anywhere while in the comic the band is no more and we actually have change seems like we missed out on something
I'm pretty positive Wallace wanted to hook up with Todd because he was dressed as Scott. The creator has made it obvious he likes that pairing, and at least supports the idea of Wallace having a crush on Scott.
I remember having the same reaction towards the final band practice scene of ‘’but wait, nothing’s changed?’’ because I have always felt that the magic of the comics was in how it depicted the awkward transition from teenagehood to adulthood in a way that resonated authentically; with ALL of the characters changing and maturing in ways that feel real (all while Scott is slowly left behind due to his subconscious refusal to mature (the actual main conflict of the entire story!!!))
All that to say, I am answering your call to let you know in the comments that I noticed too. I don’t HATE the anime, just as I don’t HATE the movie even though, for me, a lot of the magic of the comics is lost in translation there too. But I get what you’re saying and I was similarly disappointed
Yeah! this.
Excited for part three! I love how considerate of, and how _complimentary_ you are to the original intentions of this comic. It's really refreshing, and It's obvious how much it means to you
You definitely read Stephen Stills as more confident than anyone else.
I personally think that the ultimate point of the anime was for O'Malley to point out how his own work that criticized the childish behaviors of its main character, was in itself a childish portrayal of a messy relationship.
Yes, the original comic did spend a lot more time fleshing out characters and themes and having characters talk about things, but in the end every Ex was defeated by Scott in a fight, and even if the series doesn't portray it as Scott saving Ramona from her exes by doing so, it does perpetuate the trope of violence being the solution to a problem, which is especially strange when you think about it in the context of the Exes being metaphors for emotional baggage.
In the new series, the only Ex Ramona fights herself is Roxie, who she still ends up talking it out with instead, and every other interaction with the Exes is non-confrontational, with Ramona either making some kind of amends with them (like with Lucas) or just realizing they aren't worth her time (like with Todd and Gordon), which feels like a far more mature way of addressing her baggage.
I think that Gideon is played up as a terrible villain in the original because he represents the emotional baggage of a very recent break-up, but in this story he is played off as a petty loser because he is now "that Ex I let get in the way of my next relationship" which feels more embarrassing than traumatic when looked back on later.
Instead of Gideon, the actual boss at the end is a version of Scott who still remembers the "original" timeline and is explicitly more willing to rush to extreme actions to deal with his issues than he is to actually talking about his problems, which makes perfect sense as the "bad ending" for the protagonist of a story where the solution to every problem was a ridiculous anime-style fight.
The reason this series doesn't live up to the original is because it isn't trying to do that, it's just trying to make you look back at the original work from a new perspective and recognize that despite all of the great things it managed to do, there were plenty of things it did poorly.
I think that the series is also a comment on how the fans didn't learned anything from the comic and missed the whole point of the metaphores and meanings of things, and then been the initial, worst version, of Scott (the comic) or even been like the Older Scott from the show which represents the older fans that at this point think that are "nice guys" that deserves the girl just bc and doing zero real work like movie Scott or the Scott before the journey he did in the comics. The show is a comment on the disapointment with the fandom more than anything else and I think that second season will be more deep about things, characters and relations taht were left out in this first season
I really enjoyed the show, and thinking back on it, i think i enjoyed it as a deconstruction of ramona, and the story of scott Pilgrim itself. As a fan of the comics im DEEPLY sad the fun gay Steven Stills stuff got cut, but i also recognize that, while Scott's arc in the show is very similar to his arc in the comics "fighting against who youre afraid of becoming" at the end and such, putting the agency on ramona to stop running from her problems, and to actually try and solve something is really healthy for her. I also actually ENJOY the fact that the resolution at the end of the comics is the total opposite than the end of the show. To quote CJ the X's sibling: "in a story, you either end where you began, or somewhere else."
The original comics ended somewhere else, the characters have been through so much they're irreparably changed by their journey, theyve grown.
In the animation, the characters are fighting less for change, and more for a clean slate, a new beginning. Ramona and Scott finally get to be together and move forward as a team, after Ramona made the conscious decision to stop flaking out all the time. I really appreciate that personally.
Admittedly i do think sparks are very silly as a motivation though, as someone who's poly, youre not like, destined to be with people, you surround yourself with those you love, whether romantically or otherwise
god do i absolutely agree with pretty much every single point of your video! in the time after the anime came out, i felt crazy unable to find people properly criticizing it, especially in a way that’s deeply in conversation with the comic (as it’s obviously meant to be) so watching this was cathartic AS HELL. my heart is racing in a good way.
i was a young teenager when the scott pilgrim series was completed and the movie was already out. when i experienced both, they vexed me in different ways, but especially the comic, which i reread countless times. your original video about scott pilgrim was equally cathartic, as someone who has spent decades deeply thinking about the comic, honing in what i think it succeeds at and where it resolutely fails.
i love the anime as a fan of animation. i’ve watched it half a dozen times (perhaps more times for episode 3), and there are so many scenes that stun me or make me laugh or is so well composed, lit, etc, there’s a lot to appreciate. but the writing decisions absolutely vexed my partner and i, who spent hours feverishly discussing all the minute ways in which the anime sorely fails the comic and seems to be trying to give the illusion that it’s more than it really is. at least it feels that way when that is general response. in many ways, to me the anime feels like it WANTS to be silly fanfiction, not taken to seriously. (or at least, until the last two episodes. then it feels like it’s trying to have a deeper theme that wasn’t well set up imo…) in that way, i can also attempt to enjoy the anime, but that shine wears off the apple the more time you rewatch it.
it’s all so complicated. thank you for such a fantastic video!! you are most certainly not alone!!
Best beard on essay-tube :3
i definitely understand where you’re coming from here. i’ve only ever seen the movie (but based on your videos i’m definitely going to change that) so i didn’t expect the anime to leave me with any emotional reaction. i enjoyed the anime because i thought it was cute and funny and it was cool that the cast of the movie came back, but if i had been expecting something emotionally impactful, i’m sure i would have felt the same way you do. thanks for deciding to make a video about this! i know most people online get mad when someone dislikes something everybody likes, but i think it’s valuable to share as many opinions and perspectives as possible. so thanks :)
I was also really surprised that people loved it so much. To me it was really meh - the artstyle was beautiful, but the story was kind of dull and the voice acting was sometimes really painful. I love Aubrey Plaza, but wow did some of her line deliveries make me cringe.
I loved getting more of Kieran Culkin as Wallace though, but where I'm usually all for making things more queer, the story line with Todd felt a bit unsatisfying to me too. Kind of all goofs and no substance. Might have been more interesting if, as you suggested, Wallace had a genuine schoolgirl crush on the skaterbro guy and the story revolved around Lucas rejecting hypermasculinity and struggling with being gay while famous for being a dudebro, while Wallace could be dealing with having real emotions for somebody he's sleeping with. That way you get to expand on both characters.
I've never read the comics. Now I'm kind of tempted, but I'm not sure I like Scott or Ramona enough to commit to reading the whole thing.
THANK YOU for making this video, I watched your video about the original Scott pilgrim film adaptation and really really liked it, made me wanna reread the comics. When I watched the anime, I really liked it! I was excited about the plot twist, realizing it would be NEW and explore new angles. I enjoyed it, I got to the end and was very excited! Seeing people talk about Scott pilgrim online when I had sort of missed that buzz reading the comics as a kid made me really happy! But… yeah, the anime never actually delivered on what it was trying to do, I remember getting to the end and feeling like… oh. I guess that’s it. And I was really concerned that a lot of my friends watching hadn’t even seen the movie at least. It almost feels like it took a whole show just to tell us what Ramona’s original arc in the comics was. It’s like, it was fun! It was really beautifully animated, it was really funny, but at the end of the day I still prefer the comics, it was like… more empty calories.
I think what I’m getting at is that it really feels like the anime is more of a continuation of the movie than of the comics, and as someone who loves the comics it’s just like. Yeah. This is good but isn’t quite right.
Thank you for sharing your story! It's really interesting how different qualities of the same story can relate to different people
My own story with the Pilgrim series is *drastically* different from yours: I started with the comics, but I didn't even finish the first Book - I was never interested in romance (especially back when I was a teenager), and I couldn't find anyone in the cast appealing enough for me personally to continue reading; I struggled through it as much as I could, but I still just dropped it
So, I gave the Book to my friend - and I was *really* surprised, when he mentioned how amazing the fight was in the end - as it turned out, I was just like 5 pages short from the Matthew appearance (yes, I was that bored with the Book, that I dropped it near the end, not being bothered to read the last 20 pages or so)
I was intrigued enough by my friend's enthusiasm, so I decided to watch the movie - and I actually liked it a lot! I liked how fast-paced it was, I liked the jokes and CGI; it was just a pretty good comedy for me!
Also, this was quite a rarity for me, because generally I prefer drawn media over live-action
I would say that Pilgrim's movie is still one of my favorite movies, and over the years I rewatched it around 10 times already, I think
So, after that I returned to the comic - and, well... I still didn't liked it. I still didn't really care about anyone, it felt too artificially stretched, and most of the time I was still bored
I liked basically every change that the movie did, as for me it trimmed the fat and reduced the story to the only enjoyable (funny) bits
So, when the anime was announced, I was quite cautious - I hoped that this adaptation would be closer to the movie than to the original comic (so I was *really* happy to see Edgar Wright in the crew again)
And, well, after seeing the final result - now this anime is my favorite part of the Pilgrim's franchise! It's everything I liked about the movie, multiplied by 100! And the episodes about making a movie about the Scott's life are my favorites😅
Obviously I also have my own share of criticism, but I can just not to think about them while watching, because of the amount of pure fun and enjoyment this anime gives me; I just really enjoy this type of humor and fast-paced action, that combination of Bryan Lee O'Malley and Edgar Wright provides
Also, I *really* like Seconds! I *much* prefer the overall setting, the vibes, the main character, the supernatural elements and how they are used for character/plot development in this story... Basically, where Scott failed for me emotionally, Seconds absolutely succeeded
My problem with the Scott's comic is mostly the cast, I just can't connect with them as characters - so I genuinely do prefer them being just hollow husks for the comedy sake
I hope you'll find more stories like the original comic - but for me, I'm glad that the adaptations are the way that they are😅
wait.... you actually make a great point. damn, they all are kind of flanderized. Justice For Stephen!!
Watching this gave me a bit of pause because I think it helped clicked in my head why the anime felt empty to me. I didn't dislike it, but when the credits rolled on the last episode I at most felt entertained and at worst frustrated that where it ends up doesn't feel earned. The anime then prompted me to completely read the comics for the first time after several failed attempts over the years (I'm awful at finishing things) and I was struck by how rich it was. Aside from a couple of the exes, everyone is rounded out with history and personality and realistically grow. While the anime gives us *more* time with some of those characters who didn't get much before, it was more interested in inventing wacky meta-adventures. Which as you described, is what I remember Scott Pilgrim for (particularly since my primary experience it with is the film) and now I feel as though my memory did me a disservice.
Maybe that's what the anime's strength is: a pop-corn entertainment companion piece that makes you want to revisit the source material. From all of the interviews with O'Malley and co, I doubt that was really the intention but it re-ignited my interest and appreciation for this series in a roundabout way. And your two videos have been superb examinations in their own right.
I'm so delighted whenever I see any new uploads from you! You do such great work.
As a huge Scott Pilgrim fan, I am so glad this video exists. You really nailed most of my complaints, especially from a voice acting perspective.
I felt the exact same way when Takes Off came out, while I enjoyed it I was kind of sad that I didn't end up loving it like I hoped I would. And it felt like everyone I talked to about it rather loved it or didn't have the same issues that I did/the issues I had didn't bother them as much. I grown up watching the movie a million times and the year prior to Takes Off ended up reading and loving the books, and the reception towards Takes Off reminded me of when I first played Persona 5 and felt bad that everybody else loved this one product except me.
Loved the Roxy episode, after that I was totally onboard. Then like two episodes later we stopped watching. Exploring facing bad breakups and trying to heal/tend to old infected scars through a comic book anime lens seemed like a perfect episodic setup. Didn't have the energy to dig into why it all it was so off, but I'm glad to hear your take. I feel you!!! I have read Seconds and the teenage angst book (both are great!!!), and was a lil unsure about the scott pilgrim comics, but after your video I want to give them a shot as well. My partner really liked them when they read them as a teenager and to be honest they have really really great taste and I want to explore their recommendations more.
Thank you! Also your framing device works really well to communicate your emotional journey with coming to terms with how to make this video in spite of having such a discrepance to your peers in emotional reading of the text (hope that makes sense-ish, I'm really tired and have to go to sleep)
Hugs!
Thank you for making this.
Great video as usual! Nothing will eclipse the comics for me either. However, despite all the flaws you went over, I still really liked the anime as its own thing! However, it can't stand on its own without the original, which I think says a lot about how much we DO value the comics! I have friends who watched the anime first and were totally confused and disappointed.
this video is so good brooo
When it comes to the cast, I watched the Japanese dub which had NONE of the voice acting issues
i made the decision to watch it in Japanese precisely BECAUSE of the issues you brought up, but i identified those issues in the trailer, and made the decision from day one. So my entire experience of the story was through the dub. No switching mid-way or anything.
What problems?
@@erdood3235 watch the video lol, the whole "cast" chapter goes over it
@@CherryDad 'flat, missing oomph, not all that bad, some standouts, vibes are off' Is all he really says about the dub, so you saying 'oh yes I picked up on those problems from the trailer alone and watched it in my non native language and I could tell, despite not being a native speaker that the Japanese cast were much better than the English performance that I've never even watched' is one of the stupidest takes I've ever seen.
And then you go and add to that by being condescending to someone who is simply asking for examples of what you're talking about.
Haven't watched the video so he probably say this. But It's because the Japanese version has actual voice actors. Pretty famous VA casting.
The English version has a lot of actors reprising their roles. Being a good on-screen actor doesn't translate to voice acting.
The people saying the characters are deeper and better rounded are comparing the series to the movie (in which the characters are REALLY flattend)
Which makes a lot of sense since more people know the movie and they let the actors voice their characters again so it feels like an alternative version of it
Ramona might not be a mpdg but that did NOT stop men from using her as a direct insult to women who even slightly look like her, theres a whole song called "ramona flowers ruined a whole generation of women" that gained a LOT of popularity about that, she desperately needed some space to breath
I havent read the graphic novel cause the fandom seemed very unwelcoming to alt people and women like ramona but seeing people say "hey if you have some issues with the movie and liked what the show did, you should go read the graphic novel" has made me think about it and its been on my to-read list since then
The people who are very unwelcoming to alt people and women like ramona aren't part of the fandom, normally. MOst of the time they're just tourists somewhat familiar with it that just use her as the archetype
Excellent work as always, I will absolutely be checking out seconds!
I enjoyed the anime and while I see your points and can understand them I don’t fully agree with them. But what did resonate with me was you feeling alone disliking something that other people you like and respect love and not understanding why you don’t see what they do. For me it’s a video game, Stray Gods, a musical role playing game. It had voice actors I loved, it’s a musical where your choices change the songs, and it seemed like a cool concept with a modern version of Greek mythology. It seemed like exactly the kind of game I would love. But I played it and even though I wanted to love it, but it was just okay. The songs especially were just… meh. I was disappointed. Then I saw other people praising it, including RUclipsrs who I usually love their analysis of media, and while I agreed with some of their points, they praised the story and the songs and I just… didn’t see it. I even tried replaying it with different choices but my problems with it just stood out even more. It feels bad to be one of the few people disliking something, especially when it’s something that you thought you would enjoy and really wanted to love. So even if I don’t feel the same as you in this case, I can see where you’re coming from.
I’ve only skimmed this video a bit and while I still love the anime I appreciate an old head expressing the complex feeling of something not clicking with you and feeling lost in the praise something gets. I find your perspective very interesting and informative in the sea of praise that I largely agree with.
It’s like hearing someone give their reasons why they don’t like the Eva Rebuilds when I’ve personally grown to mostly love them (and maybe even more than the original)
I'm not a big fan of the original or the movie, but I did decide to watch this partially because of your awesome first video (love ur essays!) and partially because the animation is so, so gorgeous and I love me some animation.
"Everyone is just goofing around" is exactly the vibe I got. I kept waiting to get hooked into a plot or emotional arc or character development... nothing. Just goofing around. I figured: well, it makes sense the FANDOM like this. I too adore watching my blorbos just goofing around. But if you don't have a prior point of entry... there is nothing being developed here to hook you.
maybe some people can accept change, and it's not like the OG comic aint't still there
Your videos are always a delight to watch. So much creativity, passion and effort on display. I think you really hit the nail on the head here as well. You put it really beautifully. I share the all same criticisms with the animated show too. I'm sure their intentions were the best, but it really seemed like in execution, the show relied on shock value and gags and was unable to replicate or reinvent the heart of Scott Pilgrim. Felt quite empty and hollow to me.
Thank you for this video. I literally wrote a fanfiction about Stephen Stills and Joseph when I was a teenager. Everything you brought up about the comics is something I remember fondly and missed in the movie adaptation. I haven't seen the new series yet, but I am disappointed to hear that it deviates so far from the original as to lose connection with what made the original comics genuinely great in my eyes. (Anyway, I relate to your anxiety about being the Stop Having Fun Guy--I am often perplexed by why I dislike things that everyone else seems to love without criticism. Solidarity.)
Thank you man. I enjoyed parts of it but something was rubbing me the wrong way and I couldn’t tell way. Thank you for putting it into words XD
Thank you for this very good take
The comment about Order vid is funny to me cuz it's what I first watched from you and I like to rewatch it every so often
I agree. I’m not saying I didn’t enjoy the show-I did- but it just wasn’t what I thought it was gonna be. Me and my brother were excited for Scott Pilgrim the anime and then… Scott Pilgrim was barely there lol. I enjoyed the “What If-- Scott ‘died’” but I wish we would’ve been promised something more than Ramona trying to find Scott. Maybe how things were going for Scott in the 4-5 episodes we had without him😭
This didn’t make me like the anime less per se, but I do think that it’s good for me to keep in mind while watching. Very well-made video!
This did resonate with me very much, thank you. Especially the part about the characters. Stephen really is the best case-in-point example.
Once i saw the trailer and noticed the lips were matched to the JP version, i never considered watching the OG cast. I was always skeptical since no real va work was done by most cast, but that was the nail in the coffin.
Great video, i heavily agree with the part about Stills, and it was also disappointing to see Lisa not appear again, I love her segment of the story and what it impacts both Ramona and Scott. Oh well, glad others are happy though
Fair points. However the whole crituque assumes that the series was for old fans of the comics, which is mentioned but not really accounted for. While in reality it was people who maybe saw the movie a couple of years ago and new audience that might be interested in the expresive aestetics. It makes for a nice video, but in reality it would be more helpful to try to analyze the serier from the point of someone coming new into Scott Pilgrim story, that might later down the line branch out into comics as a more complex form a medium.
I've been finding it interesting myself, the idea of this show being watched by someone who's coming into it without prior knowledge. I guess they wouldn't miss a whole lot of context, they pretty much get around to what's "meant to" happen in the original story and the twist at the end of ep1 half-works anyway since the character who's name is in the title get's killed
My biggest question then becomes, what do make of this then.
The idea of "We're gonna make Scott Pilgrim for people who don't know Scott Pilgrim" feels like as if it what they really wanted to make was a show that isn't Scott Pilgrim, but something else entirely.
And while it wants you to think of the show as its own thing, it expects you to know Scott Pilgrim in the premise. Something that new audiences then won't.
I heard people bring up the EVA Rebuilds as a comparison, but I feel were those covered most of its original story for a longer time, only changing when most of it what you expected was finished (giving old audiences what they wanted to see and new audiences a chance to catch up to them; not in a perfect way ofc if you didn't watch EVA you will feel lost at some point)
This show canges so from the plot so quickly, it has to expect you to know what is going on and question the changes from the source.
This doesn't mean I think it is bad. I just don't know if I can subscribe to the idea of this show being for people who don't know Scott Pilgrim already
And yes we can be with the "People know Scott Pilgrim through pop culture osmosis", but I don't think those are the main people who would want to watch a show based on a comic or movie they don't know.
@@tobigrantlbart "We're gonna make Scott Pilgrim for people who don't know Scott Pilgrim" is just part of it. It is let's make Scott Pilgrim for people who are vaguely familiar with it t hrough movie they saw a few years ago or just heard about it due to manic pixie dreamgirl.
20.31 😂😂😂 I had to pause the video to laugh
Omg you do it again 😂
Thank you for sharing and sorry for what sounds like a disappointing viewing experience. I had a different, more positive reaction, but that genuinely sucks for you given your clear love for the material.
I enjoyed the anime a lot overall, but that's not to say your take is strictly wrong or something. Maybe an area of difference is that I saw the anime as explicitly a response to the movie and most of the critical reactions seemed to be comparing it primarily to the movie whereas you are comparing it primarily to the comics?
I saw the movie opening day because the comics meant a lot to me. (They still mean a lot to me, but less acutely) There was a lot of good in the movie but part of what I liked about the comics was that they involved a longer time scale which let the relationships breathe and be more natural - Ramona & Scott most of all. The movie couldn't do that (or at least it didn't) and I was kinda unsatisfied as a result, even though its various merits were clear. The movie felt fun, but comparatively hollow and less mature.
For me, the anime allowed the characters to breathe sooooo much more than the movie (and in new ways). Knives and Kim jamming was one of the most beautiful little scenes I saw last year. Roxie's conversations with Ramona were affecting to me. Envy crashing Scott's funeral was a GREAT organic way to establish character.
There were elements of the movie characters that were brought in, which I sometimes didn't love, but universal Flanderization seems a little harsh.
Agreed that there were weaknesses to the anime, but one other thing to consider is that they presumably want to make multiple seasons. That's potentially a cop-out, of course, but I think it's a legitimate reason to focus more on some Exes than others. Why else have so little focus on Graves or the Katayanagi Twins in the central plot?
I cant really put my whole thought about the video in a board sense but what i can think about is your line talking about how everyone forgot why this history was great on the first place.
Sometimes we forget that we don't feel attract to media the same way. You felt attracted to emotional stakes and relationships between these characters meanwhile other people felt attracted to the characters design, the music, the actors, the cgi or the story. Ones watch the movie because of this things and never read the comics, others read the comics and never watch the movie.
We experience media on a different way so what im trying to say is was it what you considered the important part of the story what everyone else got from this media?
I can't answer that question but thats what i came to think watching your video. Is really good video and i like it. Keep it up :)
I think ultimately you're right in that it's a much shallower exploration of these characters than the comics, and there's certainly a lot of flanderization at play, I think it's still a much better showing than the movie, and is playing more with the expectations set by that than that of the comics. I still enjoyed it as its own thing. More of a fun romp than a deep character exploration, but I honestly never expected this to ever happen so I'm just happy with what we got.
(Also I think part of my defense for this anime is all the brain worm infested conservatives complaining that it's woke)
Yeah, i basically agree and and see your point, but as i went in the anime thinking it was more of an extra to the original so it didn't affect me that much negatively, because i haven't forgotten the old one. So yeah man i feel you, i just don't feel as negatively about it as you, and yeah people have gotten an bad memory about Scott and the only way to change it is to not be afraid to disagree with the majority.(3 months late but keep up the great work)
I loved the anime but I also loved your criticism of the show! this was very satisfying to watch. it's a lot of fun to watch a well put together piece of critique like this! Your videos are so artful and smart
As someone who only watched the film, many of the criticisms don't have anywhere near as much weight for me. I didn't know Steven the way you did, so the simplification of his character to half of the film version which was a quarter or eighth of the original is much less impactful. Young Neil didn't feel like he had much identity, so being comic relief definitely made him more memorable. Ramona did feel like a thing to be won and a MPDG in the film. I think that's where this all comes from. I do agree with you that it could have been better using more of the source material, but it was still a good time. Really I didn't view it as an adaptation but more of a person playing with their toys, imagining new directions for them to go, but not trying to stay true to the original. It's a fanfiction I guess.
Thank you so much for making this video. People have torched me alive because I didn't like the Anime, beacuse I like the cómics.
I feel so happy there is someone else who feels this way, and can explain it better than me
I quite literally made a essay on this topic for school and the fact I found this video set after the fact is Incredibly vindictive
To answer your question , you are not alone in your interpretation
One thing I can compare the voices to are English dubs for anime, they’re always flat. This is especially apparent when compared to their original version.
I did watch the Order video!!! Its really good!!!
Finally someone gets it. I'm glad someone else sees the comic the way I do. Perhaps this is because I read it recently without childhood ties. but I'm glad you expressed it.
I admit to not having watched the anime version on Netflix, but I have read the comics and own the film on DVD. But what you described about how the series seems to react to our collective memory of the story rather then to the actual story really does hit a nerve. I've seen it happen plenty of times over and over.
The only thing I can say is give it another couple of years, typically that's when people go back to the original and find out that "hey, would ya look at that. Looks like this DIDN'T play into the tropes we all wound up hating and actually these characters have lots of nuances and agency of their own". What is frustrating to see, however, is that even the original creator got so weighed down by the collective memory that even O'Malley seems to have forgotten what he wrote. Or just grew massively insecure over it. Just shows you how destructive and shallow internet discourse can be at times.
This did resonate, thanks for the stellar video!
I've never read the comics, but I did watch and enjoy the movie. I didn't hate the anime but I don't really know why it exists outside of 'more content, more references'.
Without spending too much time on a rant no one will read, it felt like the film used Ramona as a vehicle to explore Scott, largely to her (and other characters') detriment.
Now, with years to revisit and unpack that story, with Ramona as the lead... she's used as a vehicle to explore Scott (or, at least, to reference our nostalgia for him), largely at the expense of other characters (Roxie's moments excluded).
It made it hard to buy into Ramona's self-actualisation at the end, and it felt more than a bit cynical for the true ending to be "Nah, you're /meant/ for each other'.
I think it could've been a bolder and more interesting show if they committed to Scott's disappearance and let the other characters breathe.
Instinctively, I feel like we're being collectively conditioned to confuse references & nostalgia with depth and meaning (e.g. Marvel). Not to say that these weren't problems before, but with less companies owning more properties each it's easier to build and monetise our loyalty to IPs.
As much as I enjoyed the anime, this definitely was interesting to hear and I loved seeing a new perspective on this.
Last year i watched the movie and was really, really enchanted by it. After it, i decided to watch the anime (didn't like it as much as the movie, btw), then i just went to the comics and honestly, they are so cool! And i finished my reading very recently, and watching this video only reinforces why i was able to resonate so much with it. Thanks for the video, i also really liked the one about the movie!
Scott pilgrim takes off was some of the best watching blind shows
This guy really is just against every IP that's popular. Wonder why
Like I understand where he's coming frl., I was excited about the end credit foreshadowing for a second season. For the fact they would adapt the Stephen stills ark, have Lisa, and knives dad. When I heard Bryan Lee O' Malley wasn't interested in making a season 2 I was like you, but I've just accepted what takes off was for
I don't see why they couldn't do an animated series that perfectly adapts the comics, and then afterwards do a completely different take with a new story focused on Ramona with a completely new spin.
I think the anime, movie, and comic take place in different universes.
This makes me feel so vindicated in my assessment of this anime adaption. I thought basically all of this while watching and had to see thousands of people sing its praises. I don't hate Takes Off but I don't love it either.
I watched only three episodes of the anime, watched the film and never read the comics.
I do agree: the anime seemed less a responce to the film itself and more of a responce to twitter opinions about the film
1:41 I hope this bin switch doesn’t get transferred through other future comic animated adaptations true to the source material and as much as possible
I didn't grow up with Scott Pilgrim sort to speak. As an "elder Gen Zer" I was only 8 when the film came out. I didn't read comics at the time. Instead I was all into nature documentaries and How To Train Your Dragon (dreading the live action remake of that). I only ever really heard of Scott Pilgrim because the window scene floated around the Internet. But when the anime came out, my friends suggested we watch it. So we watched the movie first and then the anime. The movie was enjoyable but I was originally just feeling "yeah decent movie, with some 2010s flaws and all" but then the anime wormed into my brain, especially Ep. 3. I couldn't stop thinking about it. It got me to appreciate the film more and actually read the comics (something I rarely ever do cuz I just like film as a medium more, it's more affective to me). So even if it's just frosting, for me it let me discover the cake and I am very grateful for the anime for doing that.
I started to notice the flaws in the structure as I thought on it more and read the comics. The memory with Simon Lee was especially hard to square. This video confronted me to acknowledge those flaws in a way I have been trying to rationalize away and I still feel defensive about it. But again, I could tell they were there. It's why despite being hyperfixated on Scott Pilgrim since I watched it first in December I still only have the anime as an 8 and not a 9 or 10 on IMDb.
But I still have it as an 8 because sometimes, I JUST WANT TO EAT THE FROSTING STRAIGHT FROM THE GODDAMN CONTAINER!!!!
But it's also why I kind of do want a season 2 and was surprised that there wasn't one really planned. There's so much that could be done now with Stephen Stills and even Lisa Miller.
16:28 Wallace wants to make out with tod cause he’s whering the Scott pilgrim outfit and the author thought it would be funny to support the Scott and Wallace fan fict
I went in to this show completely blind. I thought the girl with the pink hair was Scott Pilgrim, and that she was some sort of tom boy hero character. Without the context of the comics and movie, I thoroughly enjoyed the crazy vibes and zero explanations. You're just thrown into this world, so every "quirk" with voice acting, pacing, and character development I just sorta accepted and enjoyed the ride.
I also recently read the comics (last month) before watching the new show, I can say I feel similar about the writing of the characters. It starts off strong, but starts to fall flat the deeper we get into the season. I think it’s nostalgia that’s painting folks opinion.
Now i kinda wanna try rereading the comics again
I got into Scott pilgrim by watching the Netflix show. I’m just now reading the Manga. It’s nice to hear other opinions on Scott pilgrim takes off.
i have to disagree but you do have some good points.
i absolutely love it though
also your setup and format of this video was really cool and funny and original but also like referential so that was amazing
It felt like more of a sequel to the movie than the book from someone who read the book after the movie. It disappointed me as a sequel to the comics but I loved it as a sequel to the movies. My wife who only watched the movie definitely liked it more then I did
your opinions are as valid as anybody else's ofc, but that whole massive section ranting about how it's bad that the exes got more humanized in little ways as their own persons as opposed to just being further narrative accessories to ramona or scott really gets the point across that you just didn't get it because you just wanted to read the light novel again but animated, you're not seeing this show for what it is, but only for what it isn't and never intended to be.
You know I'm going to dedicate this entire week to watching and reading all of Scott Pilgrim and I'll get back to you how I really feel about this
How was it? What are your thoughts? This video just made me want to reread the comics myself, lol
people do tend to simplify most things to popular surface level zeitgest-y takes, especially as they start to fade from memory. tbf that is not only for cultural memory, we kinda do that to personal memories we dont examine too closely as individuals. gotta compress that information somehow.
Different doesn’t always mean good or better either.
It feels so validating to find someone who agrees with me on this adaptation! I personally enjoyed it a lot in the beginning and end, but it's like you said - mostly frosting without cake. I'm an animator, so I mostly enjoyed it for the visuals. The animation is insane and so is the cinematography. I never liked the movie much because my favorite part of the comics is the fact that it's a story about Scott realizing his flaws, Ramona realizing hers, and the two of them agreeing to become better people together... the anime really lost me on a lot of stuff, it felt like surface level characterization and a lot of things didn't make sense to me, I was missing key parts of the characters, etc. etc. In the end, I decided to focus on what I enjoyed because the idea of an animated Scott Pilgrim was something I wanted for so long. I think it has a lot of good points, and I'm really glad it was made, but I still agree it missed out on a lot of levels.
I would had like if this video was a critique of the anime WITHOUT the comparisons to past source material, because they are pointless. it is not an adaptation, it was never meant to be, when you realize that, you realize why it was made the way it was.
everyone involve knew this, when you are working on a budget, you cannot have those sort of liberties
I have liked SPTO, but a lot of my criticism is very similar to yours and the gripes that I have are different. On the note of Stephen Stills portrayal, I have headcanon that I'm almost assured that answers the disconnect of his personality between all of his different adaptations. Stephen (and young Neil) are stoners and whenever Stephen is calm cool and collected, he's high as a kite and that he is actually a bundle of neurosis most of the time when he isn't high.
Best bait and switch ever.
I watched the anime, then read the comics, then watched the movie
I like all of them. When it comes to the anime, all I have to say is: you're thinking about it too much, and you're comparing it to the original too much.
Just take it for what it is: it's just goofy fun. No, it's not the same emotional story the comics are. And I guess in a way, I'm okay with that. The comedy is really funny (tho I will agree it starts to drag around the movie making arc, but I digress)
I like it because I decided to just take it for what it is. I don't think it's completely trash.
It doesn't have a lot to say, but as a comedy it's pretty fucking funny lmao.
It flanderizes characters for the sake of comedy, and imo it sort of works. If you're a fan of the comics and a fan of some of these characters, I can see why that could bother you. Envy in the anime is definitely not the same Envy in the comics.
But personally, I guess I don't mind it as much because I didn't see the comics first. And thats the main problem here: people are so attached to these characters that it makes them unable to take the anime for what it is.
Funny how "Manic Pixie Dream Girl," "Mary Sue" and the Bechtel test have all been bastardized at this point. Not sure how much of that is because of sexism and how much is due to the understanding of definitions erodes over time.
I definitely agree to the flanderization criticism and most of all your points, however none of that stops me from enjoying Scott takes Off. while some characters glow, and others suffer, it’s has an ultimately different thesis, which is that there’s no one correct way to change and grow. Additionally, while some characters aren’t covered properly, but others are, is a problem that all other versions have. Characters like Todd and envy, who get time in the comic, don’t need time to be developed here. There’s a lot more to than just flanderization or preferential treatment.
Additionally, I think part of why you might have a hard time with this attachment is bc you read the comic when you were the same age as the characters and that’s deeply formative bc everyone sees themselves in at least one character and if that character is depicted differently from the memory you have of them then it will irk you. During my reading the comics, i saw Stephen and anxious or exhausted lot despondent due to anxiety whiplash rather than the nonchalant way you saw him. I don’t think either interpretation is wrong bc the character is nuanced.
Still a great video overall tho. I enjoyed your editing and pacing a lot.
16:44 “it’s like the whole thing was just played for laughs” - to which I replied aloud “uhhh, well yeah.” And I guess that’s the disconnect. I didn’t experience the comics, only the movie, and didn’t particularly feel like I connected with it. But I had a BLAST when the show came out. Loved the first ep, was feeling meh come the second ep when I realized I wouldn’t be experiencing Scott’s story, and then back to fun when I started having a blast with Ramona and Co. (Agreed, her time spent with Roxie was by far the highlight.) While I too felt like they could’ve pushed harder on character dissection, particularly among Ramona and her relationships with the exes, I suppose not reading the comics allowed me to enjoy the tone and presentation a lot more. I was in it for the characters vibing with each other, the stylized fights, the surreal scenarios, and a lot of the comes from innocent nonsensicality. Like, you took issue with characters appearing on Young Neil’s set for no clear motive meanwhile that sparked joy in me, to me that’s a natural function of the world. Whimsical coincidence isn’t for every show but it feels right here. But I completely get being attached to a property and knowing its potential to convey complex issues, on top of having expectations of who each and every character is, and therefore being disappointed by a world that plays things a little looser. Especially when the critics call it a more detailed examination. But as someone who had a blast with the show, I do hold firm that there’s a ton to enjoy when there’s not a comparison-point overshadowing everything, as well as people gaslighting you into thinking that comparison-point was lesser-than. Just a different experience.
Apologies on adding to the essay collection, that wasn’t my intention when starting this comment haha. Great video, best wishes!
I still like the anime regardless tbh
I don't agree with you on the topic of the movie, as it seems you're unable to disconnect the comments from the movie material, however in terms of Scott Takes Off, you have a really strong point.
I've read the comics, and watched the movie, but Netflix seems to take portions of both. Scott Pilgrim Takes Off both needs you to understand and forget the source material it's adapting, with things like Kim's memories and Envy Adams both being boiled down and simplified. The story has grand ideas for how it wants to confront the exes and Ramona's past, but with how she acts in Scott Takes Off she's entirely different from how she was depicted in both the comic and the Anime. She's unwaveringly dedicated, and that makes her endearing to an extent, but ending the series with a "I'm done running" line, falls empty as she's been done running since Episode 2.
The show takes complicated things from the original, boils them down, and then tries to rebuild them to add depth that was already there, with Roxanne as a good example.
It adapts the IDEA of Scott Pilgrim, but not the Movie or Comic itself.
The characters get boiled down, the main messages fall flat, and it feels like the only true thing the show has done well is putting our wacky characters we like in wacky situations.
I might be reading into it wrong, but I read Ramona's constant hair changes as a visual metaphor for her inconstancy and distance from the people around her. Ramona or someone talking to her brings up explicitly that she wants to avoid people getting to know the real her out of a fear of rejection, hence the running and self-reinventions, and this is represented by her constantly changing an immediately noticeable aspect of her character design. In the last episode, she has a natural hair colour - blonde - with her previous teal hair remaining only at the tips, to represent her becoming more comfortable in being known.
Even if that is how it was intended, however, I do think it comes across as a little unclear. They should have made some alterations to the animation of her morning haircare routine that gets recycled through the other episodes if she hasn't dyed her hair in a while or is removing the dye. I also think they could have left her with her teal hair rather than undye her, because that would have added visual consistency. The idea of her natural hair colour being more "her", too, seems off to me even if I can understand the idea - her dyed hair was a conscious choice and felt like it showed us more of who she is than the absence of dyed hair does.
1:34 I wish they got actual Funimation voices
16:47 I think the only reason is because in the comics it's stated a few times he finds Scott hot. So having him dressed up as Scott did it for him ig.
i havent seen the video yet but before i do, i just wanna say this title is such a relief. absolutely did not enjoy this show at all, it felt like it missed literally everything that made the comics and even movie enjoyable.
there was an interview where someone involved with the show stated "since everyone hates scott now, here you go, a show without scott" and i think making a series based on stupid internet discourse is such an abhorrent idea that its no surprise it ended up so sour. no clue how its so beloved
This is like a really great video though, why the fuck are the views so low? I mean maybe the title seems a bit like oh this is a reactionary thing at first glance without having seen your previous stuff? I feel like it's likely that youtube censored it though, which is an absolute tragedy