I'd like to apologise for my wording in this video. I didn't intend to suggest that, because Janice ends up in a heterosexual relationship, that means she cannot be queer. Bisexual, pansexual and asexual people ARE queer no matter their relationship status, and to suggest otherwise erases queer identities. I deeply regret participating in that. I believe Janis's queer coding is specifically lesbian coding, which is why I believe the ending erases her queer identity. Even though this does not prove she is straight, I believe that is what the narrative intends to say, since the film's representations of sexual identity are not particularly nuanced. However, I should have clarified this point in the video. Bi erasure is something I am keenly aware of, so I have no excuse for why I did not consider mentioning other queer interpretations of Janis. As queer representation in media is something I discuss often and something I care strongly about, it is important to me that all members of the queer community feel represented in the discussion.
janis' look and persona doesnt necessarily have to be lesbian coded either. she might just be a tomboy or non binary. or she just dresses that way to express some kind of rebellion. i felt like what they were trying to say by her ending up in a hetero relationship is the fact that you cant judge someone based on how they choose to dress or their personality even. tht's how i interpreted it and i didnt think there was anything sinister behind it because the movie obv has nothing against gay characters. i could be wrong tho... maybe being lesbian was more taboo than being gay in those days? idk
I came to the comments just to lightheartedly say that she could easily be Bi or Pan, and saw your comment. Hugely fair play to you for saying this! I agree with your analysis in the video, that having her Not be lesbian at the end, does add some vindication to how much Damage a queen bee can do. Thanks for adding this after, it's really appreciated
i don't think karen is a "pleaser/wannabe/messenger", i think she's there to boost the image of the plastics. she's considered to be one of, if not the prettiest girl in the school, but because of her naiveté, lower intellect and promiscuous reputation, she's not a real threat. regina can trust her to not manipulate her or try to get revenge on her, because karen is in her own world. and her looks just make the plastics seem more desirable. i actually think that gretchen resembles the pleaser/wannabe role more. by the end of the movie, she's the only girl of the main cast who hasn't let go of the clique mentality. she desperately wants regina's approval and never does anything the group doesn't want.
I was thinking the same thing. Karen is just a follower and those peoples role is never really in danger because they'll go along with whoever is in charge. It's the strivers, or wannabes I guess, who are playing a risky game by potentially trying to get the top spot. If they get outcast, they fall hard.
"Too much of a nerd to be dangerous" Oh no. No no no. As a girl who has worked at a games store, please do NOT ever make the mistake of assuming someone is "too nerdy to be dangerous".
If anything, I was always way more suspicious of them. I was always harassed more often by nerdy men than by the typical „chads“. This may be a stereotype, but I think it’s partially because they usually live more sheltered from social life and interacting with women, making them an easier candidate for the Incel pipeline.
@@marcotisch2605 men who constantly play violent video games all day. No sunlight. No interaction. Yeah, total recepie for normal healthy behavior. Not
This is actually a common trope called the 'adorkable misogynist'. Its prevalent in 'The Big Bang Theory' and also many 80s films such as 'Revenge of the Nerds'.
@@EmonEconomist it can be both and it definitely reflects reality. What's even worse with the 'adorkable misogynist' is that characters such as Sheldon Cooper reinforce this behaviour in real-life nerdy sexists. It's a really harmful trope.
What I love about Mean Girls is that nobody in the equation is innocent and that feels alarmingly accurate. The ending of “let’s all just apologize, move on, and grow up” is more or less what happened to me in high school.
Some people in high-school thought I was a lesbian because I rebuff guys. Noone ever stop to ask what those boys did to be rebuffed. I had a low hair cut , sometimes in high school. I put my attention into my close friendships which were mostly female. Then, I heard that people believed me to lesbian for various reasons. It is really didn't faze me, because okay. I was never really bullied in high school. I think I was a floater type. I floated between groups. This is why I can Janis hey oh okay, I was just like she will not date that boy it came out of nowhere. But do understand when I watch the movie the first all those years I did not see her as queer codes because I came from a different culture. Her dressing to me was is she differently, in desexually manner. I would not have read as gay. To me read someone as gay at that time was they will have to tell me they are. It is with this movies and others that I started to learn queer coding especially, in a western cultural context.
Rewatching it recently I am shocked at how sympathetic I found Regina. As shallow and cruel and unthinking as she is, she spends the whole film being gaslit and you really realise how she has nothing. Just an ineffective mother and friends who don't actually like her. And the point of the film is not "we need to take Regina George down".
To me, it acknowledged that those high school popularity contests actually mean nothing once you grow past it. In college and the adult world, none of that stuff matters anymore and truly mature people don't care about it
One point made about Janice was that she kinda emulates toxic "not like other girls" culture. Where it's cool and hip to rag on traditionally feminine things like the color pink, shopping, partying, and makeup. But her ending was a way of saying that there's nothing wrong with showing your girly side
I think you've made the only argument i'll ever accept for Janis NOT being gay in the movie. makes a lot of sense, and the bit about Homophobia being SUPER GENUINE when its not JUST against actual gay people, but even cis straights who are "sexuality nonconforming" to them? so fuckin true. amazing.
I think the modern lesson about queer culture, as a SEA queer myself, that I have learned without any queer people in my life who didn't teach me about this stuff and had to learn this organically. To separate Sexuality, Gender, and Gender Expression and how that could be intersected either with or to each other and/or possibly not at the same time. I think, from my 23 years of life is the ultimate lesson that I have come to understand. Another one is; I think I have seen this thread from a queer person I follow online is, "People can come out multiple times" It doesn't invalidate our previous lived experiences, but it acknowledges that and we can move forward on our own terms. Also, to add to your point, how homophobia affects cis straight is poignant, especially in the case for Janis that this video exhibits.
@@ItsAllNunya South East Asia. Basically, I'm a queer man who lives in that region of the world. We have a different queer culture than what most Western queers experience and live in.
@@ItsAllNunya I don't know a lot of people online who use it as the same way as I've said it. I just like to shorten it because I have this weird fixation of using three letter nicknames or abbreviations to get my point across. I often call my friends by three letter nicknames by just using the first three lettes of their names lol. But, I'm glad you found it to be quite mathematical.
So hi everyone--this is Rosalind Wiseman, the author of Queen Bees. I am speechless watching this--which is hard to do. But I can write thank you James Woodhall! This is hands down the best analysis of Queen Bees and Mean Girls. Thank you!!!!! And I swear it's me. :)
Do you have anything to say about your quote about girls "agreeing to do what the other person tells them to do, including having sex against their will"? You are aware you're describing rape and that teen girls (or any woman) do not agree to be raped? It's a rather disgusting implication, along with a lot of internalized misogyny shown in the excerpts used for this video, blaming girls for upholding the patriarchy instead of the men who create and brutally enforce the system. It's all quite gross.
I think making Janis straight offered appropriate and accurate commentary on homophobia. I’m gay but when I was growing up, the homophobia I saw get weaponized was usually against people who were/ended up actually being straight. I think it’s worth pointing out that homophobia affects everyone. Other gays can call it erasure but if anything I think making her straight helps delegitimize the bullying she faced, which serves the movies thesis (although actual homophobic bullying against gay kids is of course illegitimate and wrong).
When the movie came out, I was the sort of teenage boy (aka, very bookish + gay) who curiously searched for Wiseman's book in the library afterward, and then read it myself. It was so revealing just how much of it informed the movie. So I've been consistently surprised how lots of people who call themselves mega-fans of the movie never seem to notice the "based on a book" line, or bother to look up the book itself. I really enjoyed this video - it was as sharp and thoughtful and observant as your videos always are!
@@cinderellaskeleton6720 I wouldn't be surprised if Heathers had subtle influences on Mean Girls, because there does seem to be some similarities, nods, etc
Eh they are different pieces of work entirely. You don’t have to know about the book to get the message of the movie or be a fan. Most are a fan of the script Tina Fey wrote not the actual concept itself.
So for me, because Janis was originally a plastic and came up with the very feminine Jingle Bell performance, I think it’s pretty safe to say that she wasn’t initially queer-presenting. Even in Regina’s story, it was inferred jealousy of Regina’s boyfriends that made Regina think she was gay. - then Janis’ appearance changed. I don’t know why other commenters are talking about Janis’ presentation as if it was the root of the allegation, when it was actually a result of the bullying. Moreover, Janis didn’t like Damian bringing up the allegation because it still hurt, and then sarcastically announced that it was because of her lesbian crush that she had Cady do all those awful things. The only way I can see Janis being gay, is if she felt called out and then decided to embrace her truth through her appearance but then why tell Damian to hush at every chance she gets for repeating the rumor that Regina told? Either she isn’t gay or she’s ashamed - I’m leaning toward her being genuinely heterosexual🤷🏽♀️
Yeah I never once got the impression in the many times I've watched it that Janis might actually be a lesbian. To me her style was inspired from being outcast; in the sense that if she was going to be the outcast, she might as well dress like it. As a gay man who has had a fair amount of lesbian friends throughout the years, I can't think of any who looked or dressed like Janis. While I can think of heterosexual women I've known who did. I honestly think the idea that she is queer-presenting comes from people looking at a film from 2004 through the lens of someone living two decades later.
I love when cady tells Janis “you’re the one that made me like this “. It’s kinda weird though….cady was so unaware of her change but she snaps back into reality there and sees it.
Can I just note that this isn’t an entirely female problem? I’m a girl, but I hung around a group of boys when I was only 11-12 and I can distinctly see a few of these roles. I was a Banker, a pleaser, and eventually a target after the “King Bee” and I had a falling out. They weren’t necessarily bullying me after this, but all the other boys in the clique dropped me like hot trash after I fought with the leader guy. I was completely excluded. Luckily, it was only a few weeks away from graduation of primary school, (after which in the Irish education system, 12/13 year olds move up into a different school that they’ll go to until they’re 18) so after a rough few weeks, I made new friends. Mostly female. Which meant I was REALLY in girl world then, rumours and backstabbings and all.
Yeah people who say boys have less drama have never been in a teenage boy friend group. It may be a slightly different kind of drama at times but they can be just as toxic and hierarical in the same way girl groups are.
@@Skorphie YES boys become classic targets(and all the rest)! The most famous example is Millhouse, but I've seen just as many girls as boys in this slave/lackey role. Sometimes it's even cross gendered.
If I had a nickel for every fellow Irish person in a Mean Girls comment section this week, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird it's happened twice
Teenage boys are just as catty and manipulative and cliquey. this from a former teenage boy, now a budding trans girl, still wrecked with the bullying and manipulating thrust upon me
I think making Janis straight is actually the best thing to do. It shows how stereotypes placed by popular and mean girls can be false and harmful. Regina attacked Janis for being lesbian when she wasn't even one, showing how she'll say anything to tear someone down. It also breaks away from the classic alt artsy lesbian girl trope, which i think is way too prevalent. Not everybody has to fit into their assigned stereotypes. Sure she can be a lesbian or bisexual and it wouldn't be out of left field, but i think it's more powerful to make her straight. That's my opinion though, and there are lots of theories for Janis but i like the way she was written originally.
agree, I think you nailed it... thats my thoughts too. though i did wonder...being Lebanese how acceptable being gay would be to her family and whether regina chucked her in the poo making that alligation...when regina cancelled and unfriended her, it sounds like she may have had gretchens role in the clique... sidekick and while she gives offboss girl vibes for the art group... how much was she maybe adopting gay coding as her bestie is gay... to protect him or even just a little because she liked the sidekick role...
True, but even if she wasn't straight, what Regina did was messed up, simply ruining her friend's life because she had the guts to care about their friendship? That's not cool
You really did something special and transformative with this one I think. Many youtubers approach Mean Girls, but not the source material, and I can see why since Wiseman was screwed over so thorougly. Amazing work!
I will say this as a queer adult woman: this Janis sexuality observation is spot-on. I've always agreed with the film's ending portraying Janis as presumably straight, though I of course agree with much of the criticisms of its handling. I was a Janis. To a T. I was a gender-nonconforming cynical semi-hostile art weirdo, who leaned into people's image to reclaim it. I got called queerphobic shit from the word 'go' a decade before I realised I liked women (I will admit that the labelling is part of Why it took me so long). I didn't identify any way at the time. I was labelled on-sight before anyone even asked. People didn't care if they were accurate. They were just sight hounds who wanted to mark anything they could, because labels are how we target violence at people and establish a comfortable status quo. There is no "oh you're a heterosexual? My apologies, have a nice day" only to redirect that abuse at someone else who is Actually, Technically queer. They don't call you gay because you're gay and that's bad. They call you gay because you're bad and that's gay. And that's a far more nuanced take on systemic queerphobia than just making fun of a literal out queer kid, in my eyes.
"They call you gay because you're bad and that's gay" I think that's one of the more poignant things I have heard. In my sphere, whenever I see people who use the term in a negative connotation, it can often be used or thrown back by actual queer folk to people who used it to start something irl, just to reclaim it and hold a sense of agency in this otherwise bad situation. I may have misinterpreted something, but that quote holds a heavy weight in my experience.
“They don’t call you gay because you’re gay and that’s bad. They call you gay because you’re bad and that’s gay.” That is an absolute banger of a quote and one I will absolutely use to explain queer phobia from here on in.
I like the fan interpretation of Regina being the closeted lesbian attaching her fears onto Janice. Janice, being the impressionable middle schooler like all her peers, falls into Regina's narrative, albeit in her own rebellious way, but it doesn't change her sexuality, just her image.
“they don’t call you gay because you’re gay and that’s bad. they call you gay because you’re bad and that’s gay” is a great homophobic parallel to the fatphobic “i don’t hate you because you’re fat, you’re fat because i hate you”
The movie being inspired by such a complex and complete analysis of adolescence to girls explains why the characters are so well constructed and deep when you analyse them. Incredible video! Gonna be back many times to rewatch it :)
It never occurred to me that Janis could've been be a lesbian or that she was queer coded, apart from her suit at the prom I didn't see her as butch or even remotely tomboyish. She only comes across as masculine when compared to the plastics but Barbie also looks masculine next to the plastics. I always got that she liked to play with the idea of being ambiguous in her sexual orientation as a way to "rebel" against girl world, but not as an authentic lesbian. My only issue with that character is that she didn't face accountability for her actions nor she grew as a person.
I never thought she was a lesbian because nothing showed she was. She wore a suit... big deal. Why are people trying to ascribe certain gender roles to certain sexualities? This is reductive. Janice was amazing representation that a girl's sexuality has nothing to do with her outer appearance/fashion identity. Because it doesn't, and anyone who thinks it does is only feeding into often harmful stereotypes and maintaining the status quo.
I like the idea of her being straight. It tears down the common artsy goth lesbian girl trope, proving how highschool rumors and lies can be harmful. Janis not being a lesbian shows how Regina will ruin someone even when it's not true.
I'm a bigger fan of the musical than the movie and it was really interesting to compare your points to how the musical handles these themes. The point about Janis not needing to be a lesbian but also being able to be an example on how homophobia affects straight girls is one I've always felt but could never quite put into words. Awesome video.
@@1940semochild I don't know if I came to any conclusions, but I really enjoyed comparing specifically earlier versions of the script and how they're closer to the movie, some cut lines and songs. I especially noticed how now in the final version Cady's mom only has two very short scenes and their relationship barely feautures in plot. I found that interesting considering the original book. I also thought about how earlier versions of the script used the D slur. Janis used to have a cut verse in the song Revenge Party about the bullying she went through but now that's been replaced with a flashback scene before the song that is more on the comedic side. I can give more details if you want but that's what I can think of right now :D
the only reason mean girls got so big is because it was so real. we all had those situations. we all knew someone who fit any of those roles. it was the first movie to understand how cunning cliques can be
Hate to be that girl, but one tiny correction: Tina Fey went to high school in Upper Darby, Pennsylvania, not Illinois. Evanston, IL is similar in that it's an upper class suburb outside a major US city (Chicago, instead of Philadelphia). Fey moved to Chicago after her undergraduate degree. Incredible video though, thanks for the brilliant work celebrating an iconic film (especially iconic for the queers).
Dang it, I knew she was born in Upper Darby, but I think I read an article that said she based Mean Girls on her experiences of high school in Evanston. I should have verified. I guess Evanston was her hometown at some point so maybe I'll get away with it 😅 Thanks for your kind words about the video.
@@JamesWoodall I can 100% confirm lol she graduated from Upper Darby High School. I’m also Upper Darby alumni she actually did a casting call for the move at our summer stage program. Needless to say we are pretty proud of her. Great take on this movie! It was a great video
I used to have Mean Girls on DVD (back when actually owning the media you consume was still a thing) and watched it with Fey's commentary track. I remember her talking very excitedly about all the elements that were directly inspired by the book, like Regina sending Gretchen to do her dirty work and apologize to Cady on her behalf for the Halloween party. It's a terrible shame Wiseman got screwed out of her share so badly, because Fey's passion in adapting this book seemed so sincere.
This is really interesting to me, I am autistic and was homeschooled through most of highschool (since i was 12/13) due to anxiety so I never took part in 'girl world' and assumed the whole film was hyperbole, or that American schools are completely different from the rest of the world.
I personally disagree that Janice should’ve been a lesbian. By her being straight it does gag her bullies a bit. By perpetuating the stereotypes that gay people are the only ones trying mimic opposite gender based behavior it erases the chance for straight people male or female to express themselves in a way they see fit. I understand the appeal of representation but her best friend is gay so I’m not sure where to go with that.
i thought this would be about how bad the musical is, but i absolutely loved this video. the musical is so bad in so many ways, im amazing the guys from legally blonde the musical and tina fey both worked on it. the original mean girls is iconic, the musical and the sequel were just sad.
@@mcwyman7928 oh yeah the lyrics are ridiculous. But the cast is so talented, like Barrett Wilbert Weed, Taylor Louderman, absolutely incredible vocalists
there's a comment literally right above yours that says the musical was even better than the film, so clearly it's up to one's personal interpretation. (I am not a musical person so I have no opinion.)
Wow, I had no idea how close the adaptation was (and I was only vaguely aware of the fact that the film was an adaptation at all). Thank you so much for making this video! The situation with Wiseman and Paramount, and simply her role in contributing to the movie, should definitely be more widely known.
Your production values are out of control. This is so fun to watch and low key revelatory. But those maps around (15:12) took me all the way tf back. I was in high school in the mid-late 00s and seeing stuff like "anime kids" and "the gothic/gay/lesbian tree" omg there was so much overlap in those communities I'm getting flashbacks. Being a "black emo" and a weeb and a closeted bisexual back then was definitely rough 😂
Holy heck, this video was awesome! From your analysis of the film itself, its reactions over the years, to shining a light on the person who inspired it all and wants to foster some good for teen girls, I’d say this video is top notch! 100/100
Excellent video! It is so sad that people know literally nothing about the adaptation process of the film. Most of them, I included, think it was weird how the book somehow was inspiration to the movie, and I'm baffled that sentences whole were ripped from the pages and nobody knows about the extent of the author's influence in the movie.
One movie that addresses what you mention with Janis is The Outcasts. Whether it does it effectively? Idk. But it definitely addresses it. Also, if anyone has seen and analyzed The Duff, that is also an interesting analysis.
in high school we didn't have exactly a queen bee, but we did had the popular girls who the boys saw as the desirable ones, i grow up very fast, had sex very early in my pre adolescense i felt like going to high school would be easy on the department "boys", and oh man, i was so wrong, each day a guy that i had feelings for confessed to me they liked my pretty friend, or they saw me like a dude, i just felt more and more undesirable and started presenting myself as a butch, people often got surprised knowing i liked boys and sometimes i even forgot that i could like a boy... i just felt like i couldn't be girly and feminine if any guys liked me, i felt embarrassed to wear cute and girly clothes, i felt embarrassed by my size compared to my petite and skinny friends, my mom often asked me why i stopped wearing dresses and skirts, and cute tank tops, i gladly grow out of this and learned that male validation couldn't be the determinator of how i presented myself. i know Janis background is completely different than mine, but often straight women put themselves in a queer presenting way to "protect" themselves, even tho queernes or feminity does not come with a "dress code" or a etiquette book (they don't have a look), we socially made up those ideas for ages, and we unconsciously follow them, anyways, thats my two cents, very late two cents... (i hope i made clear, but i don't believe you need to look a certain way to be femine or masculine, or if you're gay you need to have a look and mannerisms, stereotypes are stupid, be who you are independent of your sexuality and your personality, and your style, be happy and live comfortably in your own skin!) amazing video btw, i loved your channel, subscribed!!
This was one of the greatest film analysis videos I have ever watched. I always found the film to be an absolute masterpiece. And it should be appreciated for that. For more than just being incredibly quoteable, iconic and funny. And you did the best job one could have done to showcase that with this video. Mean Girls is the film I watched the most videos about. I think everyone that watched Mean Girls should watch this video.
Thank you for this amazing video, and journey into teen social politics.. I just realised at the end of this video.. that I was a one-part in a three-part clique at school.. I was the “Karen” in mean girls. I wasn’t stupid at all before I joined the clique, I would have described myself as average or slightly above average intelligence. And like how the poster and author describe so eloquently, to move up in the social hierarchy, you have to sacrifice a part of yourself to gain “power”. Without realising it, I was sacrificing my intelligence to fit into the clique. A good example of this in the movie, is when Kady pretends she is stupid and needs help in her maths class, but then towards the deeper progression into the clique, she actually BECOMES stupid. And this happened to me, and it was awful. It’s like losing a part of your soul.. I can’t even describe it in words to someone who doesn’t understand this level of pain and torture, and ultimately the kind of physical and mental endangerment this can cause, the further you go into a highly toxic and demeaning friendship group. For further insight into this dynamic, I am a gay man, I was in a group with two girls whom I considered to be their “gay best friend”. Yes, I bought into the very harmful gay best friend trope and god, did I pay for it in the end. The two girls were a mix-match of Regina and Gretchen together, and just like in the film, they had power struggles against each other. And like how famously in the four/way telephone call, I would be the go-to in between person to bounce off of for some comic relief and cooling down of a very inflamed situation. I actually can’t believe how much this film epitomises not only school culture to people who try and be popular, but also the dangerous tropes within this culture and the problems they can cause later down the line as you sink deeper and deeper into a dark cave that becomes more difficult to scrape and climb your way out of. Thank you for another introspective reflection of my life I didn’t know I needed! 😁😁🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
I think to make Janis gay just for the sake of having someone represent that would be stupid; it misses the point that the label is often pushed on people who don't fit it. You address this at 44:20, but somehow seem not to take it all the way to the conclusion.
I appreciate that Janis was not made a lesbian, because her story seems to line up pretty similarly to my own. I was quite heavily bullied by feminine girls, and I often dressed in a "boyish" manner as a rebellious instinct to not be anything like the girls who hurt me. As a result, I was called a lesbian by everybody for basically the entire later part of my school life. However, I despite that, I never felt the need to "prove" my heterosexuality. And I still refused to dress or behave feminine for many years. The biggest downside of this behavior being that the guys I crushed on never reciprocated my feelings. But perhaps that was a blessing in disguise, who knows? Anyway, now all these years later, I've made peace with my feminine side and femininity as a whole. I now actually really like dressing and behaving in a feminine way. It's like I'm uncovering bits and pieces about my true self that I'd kept deeply buried for so long. So yeah, I feel very connected to Janis as a character. And making her a lesbian would've just felt like the movie was saying, "You should judge people on appearances."
And NOT making her gay makes it look like "It's bad to bully people for being gay because what if you're wrong they're actually straight!" when it should be "You shouldn't bully gay people period" lmao
@@РутаАсадаускайте Considering that there's another gay character in the movie and the film suggests that it's wrong to bully him, one of its messages is that bullying people for being gay is not right, either. But there's also nothing wrong with a separate message not to make assumptions about people based on their appearances.
@@Lady_de_Lis but why there's no inclusion of a lesbian character when the movie is literally about girls? A throwaway inclusion of a comic relief gay man character won't cut it because gay men and gay women are not the same and often experience different treatment. Many straight women (and all the female characters in the film are straight) think it's okay to be a gay man but hate gay women and think of them predators.
@@РутаАсадаускайте That's a big assumption to make on your part. Besides Regina George, who is literally meant to be seen as a bad person, no one suggests that Janis is predatory because she's a supposed lesbian. Her lackeys may agree with her, but that doesn't mean all or even most of the other characters do. Not to mention, Cady herself doesn't know Janis's sexuality for the entire film till the end. Or at least, not that we know of. She also hears the rumors that Janis is gay. Yet, she still treats Janis just the same. That, in itself, demonstrates that this film does not advocate for lesbians to be shunned or mistreated. But regardless, the movie isn't about LGBT issues, it's about mean girls and the "girl world" pecking order. It's fine for that to be the focus. Not every movie needs to center on LGBT concerns. This movie knew what it wanted to say, and it said it. Nothing wrong with that.
@@Lady_de_Lis No one in the movie other than Damien defends Janis, so 🤷♀️ And Cady uses homophobic language to insult miss Norbury ("She was so queer"). It's never challenged in the movie. I'm not asking the movie to be about LGBT issues entirely. I'm asking to include gay women in it because, believe it or not, they're a part of the "girl world" and the pecking order too but were treated very irresponsibly in the movie. Most gay women (me included) agree that the Janis storyline and its conclusion in the movie was not handled well, and their opinion should matter more in this regard.
I cheated and read the comments before starting your video and I was like, there’s no way he can argue Janis Ian isn’t gay, or doesn’t necessarily need to be gay for the story to work, but wow *STANDING OVATION*
i've been replaying and pausing to read the excerpts and wow! this is SUCH a FANTASTIC video!!! i found myself laughing and nodding along to wiseman's observations. they're so true!! also, the editing of this video is amazing. it plays out like a professionally produced documentary. the way you weave excerpts from the book with scenes from the movie is amazing
Janis being and not being a lesbian gives more or less the same message. Homophobia is harmful, and its used as a weapon that could destroy your life. It doesnt matter if you're gay or not, if someone decides it's something has and that you're that, it will make it bad and you'll be a victim of it. Her being straight works to give the message that appareance and homophobia can damage you by going against the status quo, not being "a girl". Janis being a lesbian gives the message that your image is based on homophobic stereotypes commonly associated with lesbians, there fore you're going against the status quo: being s traight.
If we wanna play devil’s advocate regarding Janis, just because she ends up in a relationship with a guy that doesn’t mean she’s not a queer woman. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Mean Girls I would say is a good 101 on how to do adaptation that stays faithful to the spirit of the source material its adapting, but still has room to be itself and brings its own ideas to the table that feel like a natural extension or evolution of the source material its adapting.
As an european girl the american highschool experience has always seemed so outlandish to me- like I can't tell if it's really like in those movies or not but if it is, even in the slightest, that would be absolutely crazy to me... it's almost like a different world or like an experiment where you just put different kinds of people in a jar with no rules and see what happens
The thing I notice about Janis is that I think she is rejecting her femininity. Which would probably make her come off as tomboy. But in my interpretation it's another way for her not to conform with girl world. It's like she saying she is not like other girls. I think it is because of how Regina and the others reject her. And to her mind she doesn't want to fit in like them so she proceeds to act the opposite of what they are. That is why I didn't perceive her as a lesbian and more as a girl who develop a toxic dislike of being girly because of Regina.
Those things aren't mutually exclusive. I think she's a lesbian but she's also extremely anti-feminine bc the girls don't accept her. She hasn't fully accepted herself by the end of the film so she gets a boyfriend in order to feel more normal
the roles in the hierarchy remind me so much of my childhood group of friends. i tended to end up going back and forth between messenger and target. it was hellish. i do not miss that period of time
Thanks for making this video, I have wanted to see a comparison like this for a long time and was quite disappointed that the book wasn’t even mentioned in the Cinema Therapy video about the film.
huh- i never realised i was a floater- i always just felt a little bad inside because i didnt have a set friend group- but staying in one for too long was tiring for me
I must say, your videos are so high quality, so well edited, with such great visual and sound production. I honestly have a great time watching what you make.
41:35 I don't think I was any of these types, I was the oblivious manic pixie girl of the class who sort of floated along with whatever was happening and did have a fixed group of friends, but did not really pick up on all the politics going on
Janice isn't coded any sexuality, she's coded as the alt girl. I wore baggy anime shirts and pants and Vans, I'm straight as hell. Saying she's coded as lesbian just plays into stereotypes and is wrong.
Makes sense now. The movie seemed so out of touch with reality, it tracks that it's based on a self-help book written by a parent telling their child what the child's experience is like rather than telling parents to listen to their children and allow for an open line of communication. It's really annoying that so many older women try to project their own personal experiences as if they are universal experiences of all women everywhere. Yuck. Once you've aged out of high school, you should know that your kids won't be having the same high school experience as you. Usually it's not even a similar experience.
Ummm. So being bi is not a concept that even exists in some people's heads, genuinely baffled even the possibility of Janis being bi is just not there. Other than that I enjoyed the video
Your videos never fail to be incredibly insightful with amazing production values. One style of adaptation that might be interesting to look at someday is the way fandom adapts a movie or television show to a written form that transforms it. And I don’t mean in the ha ha shipping way, because there’s fanfiction out there that’s very creative new stories based entirely on a re-interpretation of old characters and world building. (Was thinking about it because another youtuber I watch talked about eddie/venom fanfiction but took it seriously as an exploration of queer identity and self-acceptance, which I found neat.)
Such a brilliant video essay! Such an anti-sexist nuanced take on the adaption of Mean Girls. Your animation is sublime. The level of detail and argument is so cool. Love the fun humour and your pacing. You match clips to visuals gorgeously. Liked and subscribed!
The floater is actually what my "clique" of weirdos was in highschool. If you weren't a jock or cheerleader or one of the popular rich kids, then you were a band kid/goth/LGBTQ+ kid/nerd/gamer/metalhead, etc. and you were part of our weirdo clique that was one big floater clique. Honestly, in terms of my highschool life, my sister and I loved Mean Girls cause it really was realistic to our experience with the girls around us.
As a huge Mean Girls fan, I knew it was based on a book, but for some reason I never read it and always thought it was about a fictional story. Now that I know it's based on a non-fiction story, it all makes sense. That's why the movie is so iconic and resonates with teens today, because it was based on real stories by real teens. Tina did a great job adapting that book (which I'm now dying to read). p.s.: your video editing is so amazing, it made an already great video even better. 💖
production value on this was incredible! i subbed within the opening credits; great music choice. the rest of the vid was great too. your section on the handling of janis's sexuality reminded me of a video-essay by the take on how regina might actually be queer in the movie, i.e. how much of her ruthless approach can support the interpretation of her own "compulsory heterosexuality" struggle (which includes her assignment of queerness to her original target: janis)
To be fair, even if Janice is a lesbian in the film and ended up with a boy, that sounds like something a girl who feels insecure about her sexuality might do to fit in or keep up appearances. Keep in mind that even in the film, Janice never comes out as a lesbian, but instead the other characters tell us, the audience, that she might be. And she might be after all, but if she doesn't feel safe coming out, she might have opted to get a boyfriend instead...
I’m here to comment for the algorithm. It really is such a shame that this video doesn’t have a ton of views because it’s really good. I love that, unlike other video essays on Mean Girls, you decided to look into its source material.
I liked the idea of Janis not being gay, shows that just because a girl doesn’t dress girly or has any interest in dating it doesn’t mean she’s a lesbian. Just comes to show how Regina and girl world stereotypes everyone into a box that doesn’t end up matching who these people are at the end. Unfortunately I think especially nowadays everyone wants to push every character as a gay character if it is given any stereotypical sign of homosexuality in the way they dress or speak. I don’t think Janis looked unconfortable, confused or “felt pressure” into ending up with that guy in the end, they look happy. What does feel forced is the people that keep calling her a lesbian when she seems completely fine at the end in a relationship with a man. Maybe she’s bi, who knows, but she looks happy and her story is still a valid one, so just let Janis be. That mentality you have is just going according to Regina's perception in the movie and seems to totally miss the point of the ending of the film, which is “nobody is what they’re claimed to be, stereotypes don’t have to remain, people are so much more complex than that and there is room for change and fresh starts”
I know there are some people who don't like the musical (I've never seen it, but I REALLY like the music) but I do appreciate that the musical overcomes the movie's race issue by having Gretchen be played by an Asian woman, and even having Regina eventually played by an Afro-Latina.
I haven't seen it either but I am very familiar with the movie. I have heard and read some valid criticisms of Tina Fey's work in regards to race (30 Rock and Kimmy Schmidt) and even Mean Girls. But not that main characters were non white (maybe that was a critique but I do not recall it). Were those roles cast by women of color to make up for it from the movie or were they cast because they were the best actors regardless of race?
I don't understand when being alternative or counter culture became the same as queer coding. Not every person who rebels against popular culture is queer. I never viewed Janice as queer coded, she's just rebelling against the popular ideal in this iteration of "girl world".
Such a good conclusion. I read the book a couple of years back and was extremely surprise at the amazing work by these two incredible writers. Fey for adapting something that I’ve would’ve thought unadaptable. Wiseman for her excellent psychosocial analysis of “the girl word” .
I really have enjoyed watching this video so far, you have done some great work. But I find a unique irony when you made the statement you did at 43:06 since this movie really is about the perception everyone has on you during a very impressionable time. The fact is, you don’t need to defend or challenge this because it is the way it is. As a gay man myself, I personally have gotten over representation in general because often in Hollywood, it’s very specific and very stereotyped. And while like you said, many people cling to what they are labeled or find comfort in communities that fall outside the “desired norms” I really think if a lesbian young woman or a gay young man connected to a queer coded character only to discover they may be more complex, they should not let that get them down. If you only find comfort in communities you associate as and if you only feel accepted by seeing representation that includes groups you are in, then you are limiting yourself due to public perception rather than living your own life. It is not easy to live like that and we all fail to be entirely independent too. But I personally have come to not expect others to think of me and communities I subscribe to and I don’t limit myself finding comfort in representation of characters like me. It just doesn’t make sense, especially since I grew up with characters of fiction that were definitely not like me and I was still deeply moved and motivated by them. That is why I think this mindset limits you, while it can be incredible and refreshing to feel noticed and to have proper representation, you are missing out on connecting to other characters solely because they lack the depth you want. I get the argument that representation of all kinds is good and I am not against it, and this industry in that regards has a lot of room for growth and change. But whether it’s because the creator was afraid to commit or wether it was just how they envisioned it, you kind of have to accept it as it is.
this video was surprisingly hard to stomach. in hs i went from happy floater, to pleaser, to target... and I hate mean girls bc it taught people my age that being gay was a reason to be excluded. I didn't even know what a lesbian was before mean girls. I learned to hate myself before understanding myself. I truly believe if the movie ended with janis being proudly gay, that would have made hs a better experience for me. But anyway, hearing about the book...Im in awe and respect. i wish my mom had this book.
I was the Target in elementary and Middle School. Then in Highschool I turned myself invisible. I stayed under the radar and my best friend in highschool was a blind girl who I felt most comfortable with. People had made fun of my lips and my body so much when I was in school that being with someone who couldn't actually see me made me feel safe. Sometimes I'll run into the girls who targeted me and they'll try to laugh and act like we were friends, but there's a reason why I mostly avoid social media and don't go to any places where I've run into them again. That was not a fun time. And it really effected how I feel about my face. I got my first real job during the pandemic because I was able to wear a mask and cover my face. I kept wearing it even after all my coworkers got rid of theres. I just stopped wearing it to work a few weeks ago.
It's interesting how Heathers the Musical has the 'Karen' character McNamara sing a song named 'Lifeboat'! I wonder if the writers took inspiration from Queen Bees & Wannabes
The thing with Janis is that to me it feels like it's just an endorsement of the idea that being a lesbian was the problem, and now we know that Janis is male attracted that's her fix. Everyone else gets their character flaws fixed, except Janis who's made explicitly straight. It implies that the lesbianism is janises character flaw. I'd probably feel different about it if she'd shown any indication of being into men prior to the ending. But instead she's a walking lesbian stereotype, until the end when everyone gets "better".
i would love to see your analysis of “he’s just not that into you” ! i watched it on a whim and found it so strange until i looked it up and realized it was based on a self help book. even then though, the movie itself was a weird experience 😅
Very nicely put together video, I don’t usually enjoy RUclips analysis videos because they usually try to define what the viewer should think, but this was way more expansive than that… I do disagree with the issue on the handling of race of the movie, I feel the Asian girls were not sexualized anymore than all the girls, they were however preyed by a white adult, which is a very real thing… The handling of black people was very limiting but I feel like it was intentional, tina as a white woman however liberal and open can not speak with their voice or for them, so she portrays them on some varying degrees of how white teens perceive them, with admiration, prejudice and intimidation, which also works on a school setting and is very real. I think it’s not enjoyable to use race on movies as a way to preach or teach, it’s way better to have a point of view as long as it’s not offensive, im not saying mean girls is the right way to handle it, but is definitely not wrong
The flashback scene is not Afrikaans,, Afrikaans kinda sounds like German or Dutch,, and is mostly spoken by white or mixed race people in southern Africa
I really appreciate all of your insight and the attention to the books and author! I assumed the situation with Janice was because Regina was so self centered that she thought she really did like her. Narcissists usually think everyone wants them. Janice was probably experimenting afterwards (due to an identity crisis due to her being perceived as gay), which most of us did in one way or another when we were teens. She kissed Kevin because he paid her a compliment. It's funny because he's a Mathlete, which she looked down upon, but looked past because he liked her. At least my two cents on a movie I always loved. 🤍 Thanks for the great video!
The point of Janis is interesting. But I think presenting her either way is very important because someone went through being called “gay” even if they are or aren’t. Knowing if I were to do it, I’m luke warm and would make her bi, but as stated in the video, being “gay” in girl world is a fear tactic placed on a woman (not too much nowadays). And I know girls who were “lesbian” just because they probably accidentally glanced at a girl in the locker room.
The trick of "this supermegablockbuster still did not make any profits, so no royalties need to be paid" is hardly unique to this case, and is often referred to as "Hollywood accounting". I expect the studio is primarily to blame, not Tina Fey
Hollywood economics is well known. No movie ever makes a profit. All authors have a story of their own on how they got stiffed by the movie execs. It is a disgusting practice to say the least.
I have ALWAYS wondered how the non-fiction book could be the basis for Mean Girls and I'm very appreciative that someone else did all the research and analysis and saved me reading a book I won't need.
In the boys section you should have mentioned how most of the boys turned out to be gay, Aaron, Kevin G AND Damien. Making Mean Girls in deed one of the gayest movies ever made.
We've made so many movies, shows, books, videos about "girl world". What about "boy world"? Is it what i see described it men oriented movies and pop culture? I wouldn't know. And that's an interesting topic. Maybe i just haven't picked up on it Anyone know about any good resources for such?
I took Gender Studies in college and we read a book called Dude You're a Fag (a quote from one of boys interviewed) that covered this very subject on teen boys. It was very insightful and eye opening from what I remember.
I'd like to apologise for my wording in this video. I didn't intend to suggest that, because Janice ends up in a heterosexual relationship, that means she cannot be queer. Bisexual, pansexual and asexual people ARE queer no matter their relationship status, and to suggest otherwise erases queer identities. I deeply regret participating in that.
I believe Janis's queer coding is specifically lesbian coding, which is why I believe the ending erases her queer identity. Even though this does not prove she is straight, I believe that is what the narrative intends to say, since the film's representations of sexual identity are not particularly nuanced. However, I should have clarified this point in the video. Bi erasure is something I am keenly aware of, so I have no excuse for why I did not consider mentioning other queer interpretations of Janis.
As queer representation in media is something I discuss often and something I care strongly about, it is important to me that all members of the queer community feel represented in the discussion.
janis' look and persona doesnt necessarily have to be lesbian coded either. she might just be a tomboy or non binary. or she just dresses that way to express some kind of rebellion. i felt like what they were trying to say by her ending up in a hetero relationship is the fact that you cant judge someone based on how they choose to dress or their personality even. tht's how i interpreted it and i didnt think there was anything sinister behind it because the movie obv has nothing against gay characters. i could be wrong tho... maybe being lesbian was more taboo than being gay in those days? idk
I came to the comments just to lightheartedly say that she could easily be Bi or Pan, and saw your comment.
Hugely fair play to you for saying this!
I agree with your analysis in the video, that having her Not be lesbian at the end, does add some vindication to how much Damage a queen bee can do.
Thanks for adding this after, it's really appreciated
Janice wanted a boyfriend. Regina lied about her to ruin her life. She's it isn't hard to understand.
Shout out to the new film doing her right!! The lesbian erasure feels so there tbh. It’s just so common in movies of that time ::
i don't think karen is a "pleaser/wannabe/messenger", i think she's there to boost the image of the plastics. she's considered to be one of, if not the prettiest girl in the school, but because of her naiveté, lower intellect and promiscuous reputation, she's not a real threat. regina can trust her to not manipulate her or try to get revenge on her, because karen is in her own world. and her looks just make the plastics seem more desirable.
i actually think that gretchen resembles the pleaser/wannabe role more. by the end of the movie, she's the only girl of the main cast who hasn't let go of the clique mentality. she desperately wants regina's approval and never does anything the group doesn't want.
I was thinking the same thing. Karen is just a follower and those peoples role is never really in danger because they'll go along with whoever is in charge. It's the strivers, or wannabes I guess, who are playing a risky game by potentially trying to get the top spot. If they get outcast, they fall hard.
Like the video (and the book says) said you can be multiple roles at once and change roles. Gretchen can be the banker and the pleaser
"Too much of a nerd to be dangerous" Oh no. No no no. As a girl who has worked at a games store, please do NOT ever make the mistake of assuming someone is "too nerdy to be dangerous".
If anything, I was always way more suspicious of them. I was always harassed more often by nerdy men than by the typical „chads“. This may be a stereotype, but I think it’s partially because they usually live more sheltered from social life and interacting with women, making them an easier candidate for the Incel pipeline.
@@marcotisch2605 men who constantly play violent video games all day. No sunlight. No interaction. Yeah, total recepie for normal healthy behavior. Not
This is actually a common trope called the 'adorkable misogynist'. Its prevalent in 'The Big Bang Theory' and also many 80s films such as 'Revenge of the Nerds'.
@@ava85898 Except it's not a trope when it happens in real life.
@@EmonEconomist it can be both and it definitely reflects reality. What's even worse with the 'adorkable misogynist' is that characters such as Sheldon Cooper reinforce this behaviour in real-life nerdy sexists. It's a really harmful trope.
What I love about Mean Girls is that nobody in the equation is innocent and that feels alarmingly accurate. The ending of “let’s all just apologize, move on, and grow up” is more or less what happened to me in high school.
Some people in high-school thought I was a lesbian because I rebuff guys. Noone ever stop to ask what those boys did to be rebuffed. I had a low hair cut , sometimes in high school. I put my attention into my close friendships which were mostly female. Then, I heard that people believed me to lesbian for various reasons. It is really didn't faze me, because okay. I was never really bullied in high school. I think I was a floater type. I floated between groups. This is why I can Janis hey oh okay, I was just like she will not date that boy it came out of nowhere. But do understand when I watch the movie the first all those years I did not see her as queer codes because I came from a different culture. Her dressing to me was is she differently, in desexually manner. I would not have read as gay. To me read someone as gay at that time was they will have to tell me they are. It is with this movies and others that I started to learn queer coding especially, in a western cultural context.
Rewatching it recently I am shocked at how sympathetic I found Regina. As shallow and cruel and unthinking as she is, she spends the whole film being gaslit and you really realise how she has nothing. Just an ineffective mother and friends who don't actually like her.
And the point of the film is not "we need to take Regina George down".
it reminds me a lot of heathers with that
To me, it acknowledged that those high school popularity contests actually mean nothing once you grow past it. In college and the adult world, none of that stuff matters anymore and truly mature people don't care about it
Not really. Janis never apologizes and acts like a victim all along
I genuinely thought the only reason Regina called Janis gay was because she misunderstood Janis saying she was Lebanese
thats what i thought as well lol
@Clau-chauNicollmao, it totally sounds like that's exactly what she thought though
One point made about Janice was that she kinda emulates toxic "not like other girls" culture. Where it's cool and hip to rag on traditionally feminine things like the color pink, shopping, partying, and makeup. But her ending was a way of saying that there's nothing wrong with showing your girly side
I think you've made the only argument i'll ever accept for Janis NOT being gay in the movie. makes a lot of sense, and the bit about Homophobia being SUPER GENUINE when its not JUST against actual gay people, but even cis straights who are "sexuality nonconforming" to them? so fuckin true. amazing.
I think the modern lesson about queer culture, as a SEA queer myself, that I have learned without any queer people in my life who didn't teach me about this stuff and had to learn this organically.
To separate Sexuality, Gender, and Gender Expression and how that could be intersected either with or to each other and/or possibly not at the same time. I think, from my 23 years of life is the ultimate lesson that I have come to understand. Another one is; I think I have seen this thread from a queer person I follow online is, "People can come out multiple times" It doesn't invalidate our previous lived experiences, but it acknowledges that and we can move forward on our own terms.
Also, to add to your point, how homophobia affects cis straight is poignant, especially in the case for Janis that this video exhibits.
@@jdellabeat6245 what does SEA queer mean?
@@ItsAllNunya
South East Asia. Basically, I'm a queer man who lives in that region of the world. We have a different queer culture than what most Western queers experience and live in.
@@jdellabeat6245 thank you! I'll keep this in mind when I see the acronym again. 💜
@@ItsAllNunya
I don't know a lot of people online who use it as the same way as I've said it. I just like to shorten it because I have this weird fixation of using three letter nicknames or abbreviations to get my point across. I often call my friends by three letter nicknames by just using the first three lettes of their names lol. But, I'm glad you found it to be quite mathematical.
So hi everyone--this is Rosalind Wiseman, the author of Queen Bees. I am speechless watching this--which is hard to do. But I can write thank you James Woodhall! This is hands down the best analysis of Queen Bees and Mean Girls. Thank you!!!!! And I swear it's me. :)
Commenting to hopefully get attention to this, just in case 😊
How doesn't this have more likes?
Omgg
Do you have anything to say about your quote about girls "agreeing to do what the other person tells them to do, including having sex against their will"? You are aware you're describing rape and that teen girls (or any woman) do not agree to be raped? It's a rather disgusting implication, along with a lot of internalized misogyny shown in the excerpts used for this video, blaming girls for upholding the patriarchy instead of the men who create and brutally enforce the system. It's all quite gross.
“That’s so fetch”
I think making Janis straight offered appropriate and accurate commentary on homophobia. I’m gay but when I was growing up, the homophobia I saw get weaponized was usually against people who were/ended up actually being straight. I think it’s worth pointing out that homophobia affects everyone. Other gays can call it erasure but if anything I think making her straight helps delegitimize the bullying she faced, which serves the movies thesis (although actual homophobic bullying against gay kids is of course illegitimate and wrong).
When the movie came out, I was the sort of teenage boy (aka, very bookish + gay) who curiously searched for Wiseman's book in the library afterward, and then read it myself. It was so revealing just how much of it informed the movie. So I've been consistently surprised how lots of people who call themselves mega-fans of the movie never seem to notice the "based on a book" line, or bother to look up the book itself. I really enjoyed this video - it was as sharp and thoughtful and observant as your videos always are!
I know they just say its based on heathers when it literally isnt
It always surprises me because I keep thinking it’s one of those fun factoids that’s entered public consciousness, but apparently that’s not the case.
@@cinderellaskeleton6720 I wouldn't be surprised if Heathers had subtle influences on Mean Girls, because there does seem to be some similarities, nods, etc
Eh they are different pieces of work entirely. You don’t have to know about the book to get the message of the movie or be a fan. Most are a fan of the script Tina Fey wrote not the actual concept itself.
Also gatekeeping a fan base of a movie or entertainment isn’t a good look lol 😅
So for me, because Janis was originally a plastic and came up with the very feminine Jingle Bell performance, I think it’s pretty safe to say that she wasn’t initially queer-presenting. Even in Regina’s story, it was inferred jealousy of Regina’s boyfriends that made Regina think she was gay. - then Janis’ appearance changed. I don’t know why other commenters are talking about Janis’ presentation as if it was the root of the allegation, when it was actually a result of the bullying.
Moreover, Janis didn’t like Damian bringing up the allegation because it still hurt, and then sarcastically announced that it was because of her lesbian crush that she had Cady do all those awful things.
The only way I can see Janis being gay, is if she felt called out and then decided to embrace her truth through her appearance but then why tell Damian to hush at every chance she gets for repeating the rumor that Regina told? Either she isn’t gay or she’s ashamed - I’m leaning toward her being genuinely heterosexual🤷🏽♀️
Yeah I never once got the impression in the many times I've watched it that Janis might actually be a lesbian. To me her style was inspired from being outcast; in the sense that if she was going to be the outcast, she might as well dress like it.
As a gay man who has had a fair amount of lesbian friends throughout the years, I can't think of any who looked or dressed like Janis. While I can think of heterosexual women I've known who did.
I honestly think the idea that she is queer-presenting comes from people looking at a film from 2004 through the lens of someone living two decades later.
She isn't queer presenting because gay people don't have a specific style for the most part.
You're editing at 21:22 was HILARIOUS, and also just highlights how amazing Amanda Seyfried understood the character
I know I LOVE that part
I love when cady tells Janis “you’re the one that made me like this “. It’s kinda weird though….cady was so unaware of her change but she snaps back into reality there and sees it.
Can I just note that this isn’t an entirely female problem? I’m a girl, but I hung around a group of boys when I was only 11-12 and I can distinctly see a few of these roles. I was a Banker, a pleaser, and eventually a target after the “King Bee” and I had a falling out.
They weren’t necessarily bullying me after this, but all the other boys in the clique dropped me like hot trash after I fought with the leader guy. I was completely excluded. Luckily, it was only a few weeks away from graduation of primary school, (after which in the Irish education system, 12/13 year olds move up into a different school that they’ll go to until they’re 18) so after a rough few weeks, I made new friends. Mostly female. Which meant I was REALLY in girl world then, rumours and backstabbings and all.
Yeah people who say boys have less drama have never been in a teenage boy friend group. It may be a slightly different kind of drama at times but they can be just as toxic and hierarical in the same way girl groups are.
Oh absoluetly. My brother definitely fits the target role - his friends were awful to him.
@@Skorphie YES boys become classic targets(and all the rest)! The most famous example is Millhouse, but I've seen just as many girls as boys in this slave/lackey role. Sometimes it's even cross gendered.
If I had a nickel for every fellow Irish person in a Mean Girls comment section this week, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird it's happened twice
Teenage boys are just as catty and manipulative and cliquey. this from a former teenage boy, now a budding trans girl, still wrecked with the bullying and manipulating thrust upon me
I think making Janis straight is actually the best thing to do. It shows how stereotypes placed by popular and mean girls can be false and harmful. Regina attacked Janis for being lesbian when she wasn't even one, showing how she'll say anything to tear someone down. It also breaks away from the classic alt artsy lesbian girl trope, which i think is way too prevalent. Not everybody has to fit into their assigned stereotypes. Sure she can be a lesbian or bisexual and it wouldn't be out of left field, but i think it's more powerful to make her straight. That's my opinion though, and there are lots of theories for Janis but i like the way she was written originally.
agree, I think you nailed it... thats my thoughts too. though i did wonder...being Lebanese how acceptable being gay would be to her family and whether regina chucked her in the poo making that alligation...when regina cancelled and unfriended her, it sounds like she may have had gretchens role in the clique... sidekick and while she gives offboss girl vibes for the art group... how much was she maybe adopting gay coding as her bestie is gay... to protect him or even just a little because she liked the sidekick role...
True, but even if she wasn't straight, what Regina did was messed up, simply ruining her friend's life because she had the guts to care about their friendship? That's not cool
@@queenbee3561 I agree with that too
You really did something special and transformative with this one I think. Many youtubers approach Mean Girls, but not the source material, and I can see why since Wiseman was screwed over so thorougly. Amazing work!
I will say this as a queer adult woman: this Janis sexuality observation is spot-on. I've always agreed with the film's ending portraying Janis as presumably straight, though I of course agree with much of the criticisms of its handling.
I was a Janis. To a T. I was a gender-nonconforming cynical semi-hostile art weirdo, who leaned into people's image to reclaim it. I got called queerphobic shit from the word 'go' a decade before I realised I liked women (I will admit that the labelling is part of Why it took me so long).
I didn't identify any way at the time. I was labelled on-sight before anyone even asked. People didn't care if they were accurate. They were just sight hounds who wanted to mark anything they could, because labels are how we target violence at people and establish a comfortable status quo. There is no "oh you're a heterosexual? My apologies, have a nice day" only to redirect that abuse at someone else who is Actually, Technically queer.
They don't call you gay because you're gay and that's bad. They call you gay because you're bad and that's gay. And that's a far more nuanced take on systemic queerphobia than just making fun of a literal out queer kid, in my eyes.
"They call you gay because you're bad and that's gay"
I think that's one of the more poignant things I have heard.
In my sphere, whenever I see people who use the term in a negative connotation, it can often be used or thrown back by actual queer folk to people who used it to start something irl, just to reclaim it and hold a sense of agency in this otherwise bad situation. I may have misinterpreted something, but that quote holds a heavy weight in my experience.
“They don’t call you gay because you’re gay and that’s bad. They call you gay because you’re bad and that’s gay.”
That is an absolute banger of a quote and one I will absolutely use to explain queer phobia from here on in.
I like the fan interpretation of Regina being the closeted lesbian attaching her fears onto Janice. Janice, being the impressionable middle schooler like all her peers, falls into Regina's narrative, albeit in her own rebellious way, but it doesn't change her sexuality, just her image.
Also, Janice could always be bi
“they don’t call you gay because you’re gay and that’s bad. they call you gay because you’re bad and that’s gay” is a great homophobic parallel to the fatphobic “i don’t hate you because you’re fat, you’re fat because i hate you”
The movie being inspired by such a complex and complete analysis of adolescence to girls explains why the characters are so well constructed and deep when you analyse them. Incredible video! Gonna be back many times to rewatch it :)
It never occurred to me that Janis could've been be a lesbian or that she was queer coded, apart from her suit at the prom I didn't see her as butch or even remotely tomboyish. She only comes across as masculine when compared to the plastics but Barbie also looks masculine next to the plastics. I always got that she liked to play with the idea of being ambiguous in her sexual orientation as a way to "rebel" against girl world, but not as an authentic lesbian. My only issue with that character is that she didn't face accountability for her actions nor she grew as a person.
As a lesbian, I understand this thinking. I just wish there was lesbian representation in teen films, since our experience is hardly ever told.
I never thought she was a lesbian because nothing showed she was. She wore a suit... big deal.
Why are people trying to ascribe certain gender roles to certain sexualities? This is reductive. Janice was amazing representation that a girl's sexuality has nothing to do with her outer appearance/fashion identity. Because it doesn't, and anyone who thinks it does is only feeding into often harmful stereotypes and maintaining the status quo.
@@jadecoolness101 Nail. Head. THIS.
I like the idea of her being straight. It tears down the common artsy goth lesbian girl trope, proving how highschool rumors and lies can be harmful. Janis not being a lesbian shows how Regina will ruin someone even when it's not true.
I'm a bigger fan of the musical than the movie and it was really interesting to compare your points to how the musical handles these themes. The point about Janis not needing to be a lesbian but also being able to be an example on how homophobia affects straight girls is one I've always felt but could never quite put into words. Awesome video.
What did you prefer about the stage musical compared to the film? I'm a fan of the film never saw the stage production.
@@1940semochild I don't know if I came to any conclusions, but I really enjoyed comparing specifically earlier versions of the script and how they're closer to the movie, some cut lines and songs. I especially noticed how now in the final version Cady's mom only has two very short scenes and their relationship barely feautures in plot. I found that interesting considering the original book. I also thought about how earlier versions of the script used the D slur. Janis used to have a cut verse in the song Revenge Party about the bullying she went through but now that's been replaced with a flashback scene before the song that is more on the comedic side.
I can give more details if you want but that's what I can think of right now :D
@@lautaroroldanpizzorno7494 Thanks! Very interesting
the only reason mean girls got so big is because it was so real. we all had those situations. we all knew someone who fit any of those roles. it was the first movie to understand how cunning cliques can be
Hate to be that girl, but one tiny correction: Tina Fey went to high school in Upper Darby, Pennsylvania, not Illinois. Evanston, IL is similar in that it's an upper class suburb outside a major US city (Chicago, instead of Philadelphia). Fey moved to Chicago after her undergraduate degree. Incredible video though, thanks for the brilliant work celebrating an iconic film (especially iconic for the queers).
Dang it, I knew she was born in Upper Darby, but I think I read an article that said she based Mean Girls on her experiences of high school in Evanston. I should have verified. I guess Evanston was her hometown at some point so maybe I'll get away with it 😅 Thanks for your kind words about the video.
@@JamesWoodall I can 100% confirm lol she graduated from Upper Darby High School. I’m also Upper Darby alumni she actually did a casting call for the move at our summer stage program. Needless to say we are pretty proud of her.
Great take on this movie! It was a great video
I used to have Mean Girls on DVD (back when actually owning the media you consume was still a thing) and watched it with Fey's commentary track. I remember her talking very excitedly about all the elements that were directly inspired by the book, like Regina sending Gretchen to do her dirty work and apologize to Cady on her behalf for the Halloween party. It's a terrible shame Wiseman got screwed out of her share so badly, because Fey's passion in adapting this book seemed so sincere.
Owning DVDs is still 10000% worth it cause commentary can be like actual gold...people like me still do it idk. Be more nerdy. B)
It's not Fey's fault; it's Paramount's.
This is really interesting to me, I am autistic and was homeschooled through most of highschool (since i was 12/13) due to anxiety so I never took part in 'girl world' and assumed the whole film was hyperbole, or that American schools are completely different from the rest of the world.
It’s definitely hyperbole but there are truths underneath it all. Like the situations they get into in the film are ridiculous and over the top.
This “how to adapt” format would make a great series, if you plan to do more!
I personally disagree that Janice should’ve been a lesbian. By her being straight it does gag her bullies a bit. By perpetuating the stereotypes that gay people are the only ones trying mimic opposite gender based behavior it erases the chance for straight people male or female to express themselves in a way they see fit. I understand the appeal of representation but her best friend is gay so I’m not sure where to go with that.
Fun fact- the Queen Bees book was researched heavily at my old school. They HATED it.
omg, fr? in what school tho? will you please tell me.
@@jeppyderudar National Cathedral in DC ;)
i thought this would be about how bad the musical is, but i absolutely loved this video. the musical is so bad in so many ways, im amazing the guys from legally blonde the musical and tina fey both worked on it. the original mean girls is iconic, the musical and the sequel were just sad.
Why didn’t you like the musical? In fairness, I’ve never actually seen it, just listened to the soundtrack. I thought the music was great, though.
@@amycox5733 sarah z has a really good video on it
@@amycox5733 The music is the worst part of it imo, especially the lyrics. They are often so nonsensical and stupid.
@@mcwyman7928 oh yeah the lyrics are ridiculous. But the cast is so talented, like Barrett Wilbert Weed, Taylor Louderman, absolutely incredible vocalists
there's a comment literally right above yours that says the musical was even better than the film, so clearly it's up to one's personal interpretation. (I am not a musical person so I have no opinion.)
Wow, I had no idea how close the adaptation was (and I was only vaguely aware of the fact that the film was an adaptation at all). Thank you so much for making this video! The situation with Wiseman and Paramount, and simply her role in contributing to the movie, should definitely be more widely known.
Your production values are out of control. This is so fun to watch and low key revelatory.
But those maps around (15:12) took me all the way tf back. I was in high school in the mid-late 00s and seeing stuff like "anime kids" and "the gothic/gay/lesbian tree" omg there was so much overlap in those communities I'm getting flashbacks.
Being a "black emo" and a weeb and a closeted bisexual back then was definitely rough 😂
Holy heck, this video was awesome! From your analysis of the film itself, its reactions over the years, to shining a light on the person who inspired it all and wants to foster some good for teen girls, I’d say this video is top notch! 100/100
Excellent video! It is so sad that people know literally nothing about the adaptation process of the film. Most of them, I included, think it was weird how the book somehow was inspiration to the movie, and I'm baffled that sentences whole were ripped from the pages and nobody knows about the extent of the author's influence in the movie.
One movie that addresses what you mention with Janis is The Outcasts. Whether it does it effectively? Idk. But it definitely addresses it.
Also, if anyone has seen and analyzed The Duff, that is also an interesting analysis.
The only thing I remember about the outcasts is that someone in any given scene was wearing a hat
in high school we didn't have exactly a queen bee, but we did had the popular girls who the boys saw as the desirable ones, i grow up very fast, had sex very early in my pre adolescense i felt like going to high school would be easy on the department "boys", and oh man, i was so wrong, each day a guy that i had feelings for confessed to me they liked my pretty friend, or they saw me like a dude, i just felt more and more undesirable and started presenting myself as a butch, people often got surprised knowing i liked boys and sometimes i even forgot that i could like a boy... i just felt like i couldn't be girly and feminine if any guys liked me, i felt embarrassed to wear cute and girly clothes, i felt embarrassed by my size compared to my petite and skinny friends, my mom often asked me why i stopped wearing dresses and skirts, and cute tank tops, i gladly grow out of this and learned that male validation couldn't be the determinator of how i presented myself.
i know Janis background is completely different than mine, but often straight women put themselves in a queer presenting way to "protect" themselves, even tho queernes or feminity does not come with a "dress code" or a etiquette book (they don't have a look), we socially made up those ideas for ages, and we unconsciously follow them, anyways, thats my two cents, very late two cents...
(i hope i made clear, but i don't believe you need to look a certain way to be femine or masculine, or if you're gay you need to have a look and mannerisms, stereotypes are stupid, be who you are independent of your sexuality and your personality, and your style, be happy and live comfortably in your own skin!)
amazing video btw, i loved your channel, subscribed!!
This was one of the greatest film analysis videos I have ever watched. I always found the film to be an absolute masterpiece. And it should be appreciated for that. For more than just being incredibly quoteable, iconic and funny. And you did the best job one could have done to showcase that with this video. Mean Girls is the film I watched the most videos about. I think everyone that watched Mean Girls should watch this video.
Thank you for this amazing video, and journey into teen social politics.. I just realised at the end of this video.. that I was a one-part in a three-part clique at school.. I was the “Karen” in mean girls. I wasn’t stupid at all before I joined the clique, I would have described myself as average or slightly above average intelligence. And like how the poster and author describe so eloquently, to move up in the social hierarchy, you have to sacrifice a part of yourself to gain “power”. Without realising it, I was sacrificing my intelligence to fit into the clique. A good example of this in the movie, is when Kady pretends she is stupid and needs help in her maths class, but then towards the deeper progression into the clique, she actually BECOMES stupid. And this happened to me, and it was awful. It’s like losing a part of your soul.. I can’t even describe it in words to someone who doesn’t understand this level of pain and torture, and ultimately the kind of physical and mental endangerment this can cause, the further you go into a highly toxic and demeaning friendship group.
For further insight into this dynamic, I am a gay man, I was in a group with two girls whom I considered to be their “gay best friend”. Yes, I bought into the very harmful gay best friend trope and god, did I pay for it in the end. The two girls were a mix-match of Regina and Gretchen together, and just like in the film, they had power struggles against each other. And like how famously in the four/way telephone call, I would be the go-to in between person to bounce off of for some comic relief and cooling down of a very inflamed situation. I actually can’t believe how much this film epitomises not only school culture to people who try and be popular, but also the dangerous tropes within this culture and the problems they can cause later down the line as you sink deeper and deeper into a dark cave that becomes more difficult to scrape and climb your way out of. Thank you for another introspective reflection of my life I didn’t know I needed! 😁😁🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
I think to make Janis gay just for the sake of having someone represent that would be stupid; it misses the point that the label is often pushed on people who don't fit it. You address this at 44:20, but somehow seem not to take it all the way to the conclusion.
I appreciate that Janis was not made a lesbian, because her story seems to line up pretty similarly to my own.
I was quite heavily bullied by feminine girls, and I often dressed in a "boyish" manner as a rebellious instinct to not be anything like the girls who hurt me. As a result, I was called a lesbian by everybody for basically the entire later part of my school life.
However, I despite that, I never felt the need to "prove" my heterosexuality. And I still refused to dress or behave feminine for many years. The biggest downside of this behavior being that the guys I crushed on never reciprocated my feelings. But perhaps that was a blessing in disguise, who knows?
Anyway, now all these years later, I've made peace with my feminine side and femininity as a whole. I now actually really like dressing and behaving in a feminine way. It's like I'm uncovering bits and pieces about my true self that I'd kept deeply buried for so long.
So yeah, I feel very connected to Janis as a character. And making her a lesbian would've just felt like the movie was saying, "You should judge people on appearances."
And NOT making her gay makes it look like "It's bad to bully people for being gay because what if you're wrong they're actually straight!" when it should be "You shouldn't bully gay people period" lmao
@@РутаАсадаускайте
Considering that there's another gay character in the movie and the film suggests that it's wrong to bully him, one of its messages is that bullying people for being gay is not right, either.
But there's also nothing wrong with a separate message not to make assumptions about people based on their appearances.
@@Lady_de_Lis but why there's no inclusion of a lesbian character when the movie is literally about girls? A throwaway inclusion of a comic relief gay man character won't cut it because gay men and gay women are not the same and often experience different treatment. Many straight women (and all the female characters in the film are straight) think it's okay to be a gay man but hate gay women and think of them predators.
@@РутаАсадаускайте
That's a big assumption to make on your part. Besides Regina George, who is literally meant to be seen as a bad person, no one suggests that Janis is predatory because she's a supposed lesbian. Her lackeys may agree with her, but that doesn't mean all or even most of the other characters do.
Not to mention, Cady herself doesn't know Janis's sexuality for the entire film till the end. Or at least, not that we know of. She also hears the rumors that Janis is gay. Yet, she still treats Janis just the same. That, in itself, demonstrates that this film does not advocate for lesbians to be shunned or mistreated.
But regardless, the movie isn't about LGBT issues, it's about mean girls and the "girl world" pecking order. It's fine for that to be the focus. Not every movie needs to center on LGBT concerns. This movie knew what it wanted to say, and it said it. Nothing wrong with that.
@@Lady_de_Lis No one in the movie other than Damien defends Janis, so 🤷♀️ And Cady uses homophobic language to insult miss Norbury ("She was so queer"). It's never challenged in the movie.
I'm not asking the movie to be about LGBT issues entirely. I'm asking to include gay women in it because, believe it or not, they're a part of the "girl world" and the pecking order too but were treated very irresponsibly in the movie. Most gay women (me included) agree that the Janis storyline and its conclusion in the movie was not handled well, and their opinion should matter more in this regard.
I cheated and read the comments before starting your video and I was like, there’s no way he can argue Janis Ian isn’t gay, or doesn’t necessarily need to be gay for the story to work, but wow *STANDING OVATION*
i've been replaying and pausing to read the excerpts and wow! this is SUCH a FANTASTIC video!!! i found myself laughing and nodding along to wiseman's observations. they're so true!! also, the editing of this video is amazing. it plays out like a professionally produced documentary. the way you weave excerpts from the book with scenes from the movie is amazing
This should have way more views than it does. I was hanging on to everything that was being said and I feel like I learned so much!
Janis being and not being a lesbian gives more or less the same message. Homophobia is harmful, and its used as a weapon that could destroy your life. It doesnt matter if you're gay or not, if someone decides it's something has and that you're that, it will make it bad and you'll be a victim of it. Her being straight works to give the message that appareance and homophobia can damage you by going against the status quo, not being "a girl". Janis being a lesbian gives the message that your image is based on homophobic stereotypes commonly associated with lesbians, there fore you're going against the status quo: being s traight.
If we wanna play devil’s advocate regarding Janis, just because she ends up in a relationship with a guy that doesn’t mean she’s not a queer woman. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Did you do something to piss of the algorithm? I don't get why this has so few views, it's really interesting!
Mean Girls I would say is a good 101 on how to do adaptation that stays faithful to the spirit of the source material its adapting, but still has room to be itself and brings its own ideas to the table that feel like a natural extension or evolution of the source material its adapting.
As an european girl the american highschool experience has always seemed so outlandish to me- like I can't tell if it's really like in those movies or not but if it is, even in the slightest, that would be absolutely crazy to me... it's almost like a different world or like an experiment where you just put different kinds of people in a jar with no rules and see what happens
The thing I notice about Janis is that I think she is rejecting her femininity. Which would probably make her come off as tomboy. But in my interpretation it's another way for her not to conform with girl world. It's like she saying she is not like other girls.
I think it is because of how Regina and the others reject her. And to her mind she doesn't want to fit in like them so she proceeds to act the opposite of what they are. That is why I didn't perceive her as a lesbian and more as a girl who develop a toxic dislike of being girly because of Regina.
Those things aren't mutually exclusive. I think she's a lesbian but she's also extremely anti-feminine bc the girls don't accept her. She hasn't fully accepted herself by the end of the film so she gets a boyfriend in order to feel more normal
the roles in the hierarchy remind me so much of my childhood group of friends. i tended to end up going back and forth between messenger and target. it was hellish. i do not miss that period of time
Thanks for making this video, I have wanted to see a comparison like this for a long time and was quite disappointed that the book wasn’t even mentioned in the Cinema Therapy video about the film.
huh- i never realised i was a floater- i always just felt a little bad inside because i didnt have a set friend group- but staying in one for too long was tiring for me
I must say, your videos are so high quality, so well edited, with such great visual and sound production. I honestly have a great time watching what you make.
41:35 I don't think I was any of these types, I was the oblivious manic pixie girl of the class who sort of floated along with whatever was happening and did have a fixed group of friends, but did not really pick up on all the politics going on
tina fey created a literal masterpiece that will never not be relevant. iconic if you ask me!
I had no idea of the book, it's amazing to see everything so well researched and explained, thank you so much!
Janice isn't coded any sexuality, she's coded as the alt girl. I wore baggy anime shirts and pants and Vans, I'm straight as hell. Saying she's coded as lesbian just plays into stereotypes and is wrong.
Makes sense now. The movie seemed so out of touch with reality, it tracks that it's based on a self-help book written by a parent telling their child what the child's experience is like rather than telling parents to listen to their children and allow for an open line of communication. It's really annoying that so many older women try to project their own personal experiences as if they are universal experiences of all women everywhere. Yuck. Once you've aged out of high school, you should know that your kids won't be having the same high school experience as you. Usually it's not even a similar experience.
Ummm. So being bi is not a concept that even exists in some people's heads, genuinely baffled even the possibility of Janis being bi is just not there.
Other than that I enjoyed the video
Your videos never fail to be incredibly insightful with amazing production values.
One style of adaptation that might be interesting to look at someday is the way fandom adapts a movie or television show to a written form that transforms it. And I don’t mean in the ha ha shipping way, because there’s fanfiction out there that’s very creative new stories based entirely on a re-interpretation of old characters and world building. (Was thinking about it because another youtuber I watch talked about eddie/venom fanfiction but took it seriously as an exploration of queer identity and self-acceptance, which I found neat.)
Such a brilliant video essay! Such an anti-sexist nuanced take on the adaption of Mean Girls. Your animation is sublime. The level of detail and argument is so cool. Love the fun humour and your pacing. You match clips to visuals gorgeously. Liked and subscribed!
The floater is actually what my "clique" of weirdos was in highschool. If you weren't a jock or cheerleader or one of the popular rich kids, then you were a band kid/goth/LGBTQ+ kid/nerd/gamer/metalhead, etc. and you were part of our weirdo clique that was one big floater clique. Honestly, in terms of my highschool life, my sister and I loved Mean Girls cause it really was realistic to our experience with the girls around us.
As a huge Mean Girls fan, I knew it was based on a book, but for some reason I never read it and always thought it was about a fictional story. Now that I know it's based on a non-fiction story, it all makes sense. That's why the movie is so iconic and resonates with teens today, because it was based on real stories by real teens. Tina did a great job adapting that book (which I'm now dying to read).
p.s.: your video editing is so amazing, it made an already great video even better. 💖
I never knew Mean Girls was based on a book. I always assumed it was based on Heathers. Jk jk, but maybe not totally.
production value on this was incredible! i subbed within the opening credits; great music choice. the rest of the vid was great too. your section on the handling of janis's sexuality reminded me of a video-essay by the take on how regina might actually be queer in the movie, i.e. how much of her ruthless approach can support the interpretation of her own "compulsory heterosexuality" struggle (which includes her assignment of queerness to her original target: janis)
Damn the life raft quote HAS to be the inspiration for “Lifeboat” in Heathers the Musical
It is actually, I remember reading somewhere that that was the inspiration for the song
To be fair, even if Janice is a lesbian in the film and ended up with a boy, that sounds like something a girl who feels insecure about her sexuality might do to fit in or keep up appearances. Keep in mind that even in the film, Janice never comes out as a lesbian, but instead the other characters tell us, the audience, that she might be. And she might be after all, but if she doesn't feel safe coming out, she might have opted to get a boyfriend instead...
I’m here to comment for the algorithm. It really is such a shame that this video doesn’t have a ton of views because it’s really good. I love that, unlike other video essays on Mean Girls, you decided to look into its source material.
I liked the idea of Janis not being gay, shows that just because a girl doesn’t dress girly or has any interest in dating it doesn’t mean she’s a lesbian. Just comes to show how Regina and girl world stereotypes everyone into a box that doesn’t end up matching who these people are at the end.
Unfortunately I think especially nowadays everyone wants to push every character as a gay character if it is given any stereotypical sign of homosexuality in the way they dress or speak. I don’t think Janis looked unconfortable, confused or “felt pressure” into ending up with that guy in the end, they look happy. What does feel forced is the people that keep calling her a lesbian when she seems completely fine at the end in a relationship with a man. Maybe she’s bi, who knows, but she looks happy and her story is still a valid one, so just let Janis be.
That mentality you have is just going according to Regina's perception in the movie and seems to totally miss the point of the ending of the film, which is “nobody is what they’re claimed to be, stereotypes don’t have to remain, people are so much more complex than that and there is room for change and fresh starts”
this video is actually amazing. it was so interesting to hear the movie and book analysis made by you!! this video needs more views
I know there are some people who don't like the musical (I've never seen it, but I REALLY like the music) but I do appreciate that the musical overcomes the movie's race issue by having Gretchen be played by an Asian woman, and even having Regina eventually played by an Afro-Latina.
I haven't seen it either but I am very familiar with the movie. I have heard and read some valid criticisms of Tina Fey's work in regards to race (30 Rock and Kimmy Schmidt) and even Mean Girls. But not that main characters were non white (maybe that was a critique but I do not recall it). Were those roles cast by women of color to make up for it from the movie or were they cast because they were the best actors regardless of race?
REGINA'S PLAYED BY AN AFRO-LATINA
I don't understand when being alternative or counter culture became the same as queer coding. Not every person who rebels against popular culture is queer. I never viewed Janice as queer coded, she's just rebelling against the popular ideal in this iteration of "girl world".
Such a good conclusion. I read the book a couple of years back and was extremely surprise at the amazing work by these two incredible writers. Fey for adapting something that I’ve would’ve thought unadaptable. Wiseman for her excellent psychosocial analysis of “the girl word”
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I like to think that Janice “likes the wine, not the label” a la David Rose #schittscreek.
At 25:36 this photo always fascinates me in the movie. Especially Regina. That's not her, that's Rachel and she's so cute
Fascinating how a self-help book was the base for this story
because of this brilliant video essay, i have started reading wiseman's book about boy world. will definitely her queen bees book as well.
I really have enjoyed watching this video so far, you have done some great work. But I find a unique irony when you made the statement you did at 43:06 since this movie really is about the perception everyone has on you during a very impressionable time. The fact is, you don’t need to defend or challenge this because it is the way it is.
As a gay man myself, I personally have gotten over representation in general because often in Hollywood, it’s very specific and very stereotyped. And while like you said, many people cling to what they are labeled or find comfort in communities that fall outside the “desired norms” I really think if a lesbian young woman or a gay young man connected to a queer coded character only to discover they may be more complex, they should not let that get them down. If you only find comfort in communities you associate as and if you only feel accepted by seeing representation that includes groups you are in, then you are limiting yourself due to public perception rather than living your own life.
It is not easy to live like that and we all fail to be entirely independent too. But I personally have come to not expect others to think of me and communities I subscribe to and I don’t limit myself finding comfort in representation of characters like me. It just doesn’t make sense, especially since I grew up with characters of fiction that were definitely not like me and I was still deeply moved and motivated by them. That is why I think this mindset limits you, while it can be incredible and refreshing to feel noticed and to have proper representation, you are missing out on connecting to other characters solely because they lack the depth you want.
I get the argument that representation of all kinds is good and I am not against it, and this industry in that regards has a lot of room for growth and change. But whether it’s because the creator was afraid to commit or wether it was just how they envisioned it, you kind of have to accept it as it is.
this video was surprisingly hard to stomach. in hs i went from happy floater, to pleaser, to target... and I hate mean girls bc it taught people my age that being gay was a reason to be excluded. I didn't even know what a lesbian was before mean girls. I learned to hate myself before understanding myself. I truly believe if the movie ended with janis being proudly gay, that would have made hs a better experience for me. But anyway, hearing about the book...Im in awe and respect. i wish my mom had this book.
I was the Target in elementary and Middle School. Then in Highschool I turned myself invisible. I stayed under the radar and my best friend in highschool was a blind girl who I felt most comfortable with. People had made fun of my lips and my body so much when I was in school that being with someone who couldn't actually see me made me feel safe.
Sometimes I'll run into the girls who targeted me and they'll try to laugh and act like we were friends, but there's a reason why I mostly avoid social media and don't go to any places where I've run into them again. That was not a fun time.
And it really effected how I feel about my face. I got my first real job during the pandemic because I was able to wear a mask and cover my face. I kept wearing it even after all my coworkers got rid of theres. I just stopped wearing it to work a few weeks ago.
It's interesting how Heathers the Musical has the 'Karen' character McNamara sing a song named 'Lifeboat'! I wonder if the writers took inspiration from Queen Bees & Wannabes
I’ve wondered the same thing!
I have to admit, I thought of Heathers the musical when James was reading the part about the lifeboat.
The thing with Janis is that to me it feels like it's just an endorsement of the idea that being a lesbian was the problem, and now we know that Janis is male attracted that's her fix. Everyone else gets their character flaws fixed, except Janis who's made explicitly straight. It implies that the lesbianism is janises character flaw.
I'd probably feel different about it if she'd shown any indication of being into men prior to the ending. But instead she's a walking lesbian stereotype, until the end when everyone gets "better".
i would love to see your analysis of “he’s just not that into you” ! i watched it on a whim and found it so strange until i looked it up and realized it was based on a self help book. even then though, the movie itself was a weird experience 😅
Very well done!
The musical also portrays really well their personalities in the song "Meet the Plastics" (which is really cool by the way)
8:58 "She shines a light"
* The Heathers fans have appeared *
23:13 "The life raft" *Life boat intensifies*
This is such a well put together video! Honestly so surprised this video hasn't take off yet, please keep creating you've earned a sub!
I can't believe that all these years later, we're still analyzing this movie. I didn't think I would watch the entire video either 😅
Very nicely put together video, I don’t usually enjoy RUclips analysis videos because they usually try to define what the viewer should think, but this was way more expansive than that…
I do disagree with the issue on the handling of race of the movie, I feel the Asian girls were not sexualized anymore than all the girls, they were however preyed by a white adult, which is a very real thing…
The handling of black people was very limiting but I feel like it was intentional, tina as a white woman however liberal and open can not speak with their voice or for them, so she portrays them on some varying degrees of how white teens perceive them, with admiration, prejudice and intimidation, which also works on a school setting and is very real.
I think it’s not enjoyable to use race on movies as a way to preach or teach, it’s way better to have a point of view as long as it’s not offensive, im not saying mean girls is the right way to handle it, but is definitely not wrong
The flashback scene is not Afrikaans,, Afrikaans kinda sounds like German or Dutch,, and is mostly spoken by white or mixed race people in southern Africa
Loved the video, and thank you for shining a light on the book's excerpts!!!
i'd just like to say, the editing on this video is phenomenal! the intro actually got me kinda hyped
This is an amazing “Essay” video I love it!
I really appreciate all of your insight and the attention to the books and author! I assumed the situation with Janice was because Regina was so self centered that she thought she really did like her. Narcissists usually think everyone wants them. Janice was probably experimenting afterwards (due to an identity crisis due to her being perceived as gay), which most of us did in one way or another when we were teens. She kissed Kevin because he paid her a compliment. It's funny because he's a Mathlete, which she looked down upon, but looked past because he liked her. At least my two cents on a movie I always loved. 🤍 Thanks for the great video!
The point of Janis is interesting. But I think presenting her either way is very important because someone went through being called “gay” even if they are or aren’t. Knowing if I were to do it, I’m luke warm and would make her bi, but as stated in the video, being “gay” in girl world is a fear tactic placed on a woman (not too much nowadays). And I know girls who were “lesbian” just because they probably accidentally glanced at a girl in the locker room.
The trick of "this supermegablockbuster still did not make any profits, so no royalties need to be paid" is hardly unique to this case, and is often referred to as "Hollywood accounting". I expect the studio is primarily to blame, not Tina Fey
Hollywood economics is well known. No movie ever makes a profit. All authors have a story of their own on how they got stiffed by the movie execs. It is a disgusting practice to say the least.
I have ALWAYS wondered how the non-fiction book could be the basis for Mean Girls and I'm very appreciative that someone else did all the research and analysis and saved me reading a book I won't need.
In the boys section you should have mentioned how most of the boys turned out to be gay, Aaron, Kevin G AND Damien. Making Mean Girls in deed one of the gayest movies ever made.
More like Janis parents' bribed or threatened or lied and gossiped to destroy Regina and Cassie.
pfff this video is waaay to good.. hope it blows up cause this is damn high quality content
This is an awesome video. And thank you for bleeping the r slur
We've made so many movies, shows, books, videos about "girl world". What about "boy world"? Is it what i see described it men oriented movies and pop culture? I wouldn't know. And that's an interesting topic. Maybe i just haven't picked up on it
Anyone know about any good resources for such?
I took Gender Studies in college and we read a book called Dude You're a Fag (a quote from one of boys interviewed) that covered this very subject on teen boys. It was very insightful and eye opening from what I remember.
I guess fight club is the male version of mean girls.