Problems With Molinism & Middle Knowledge
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 25 окт 2024
- There are problems with Molinism & middle knowledge. What's introduced are still the issues of simple divine foreknowledge but also a false sense of real freedom. And probably one of the biggest is not having the ability to ground the foreknowledge. It seems God must play the hand that was dealt. But who's the dealer?
Today's short clip comes from episode 148 which can be found here - • Free Will & God's Fore...
The episode link is www.cavetothec...
#WhatAboutEvil #ScottChristensen #FreeWill
All episodes, short clips, & blog - www.cavetothec...
Subscribe on the following:
Patreon - / cavetothecross
RUclips - tinyurl.com/y6...
iTunes - tinyurl.com/y5...
Stitcher - tinyurl.com/yy...
Google Play - tinyurl.com/y3...
TuneIn & Amazon Echo Alexa - tinyurl.com/C2...
IHeartRadio - tinyurl.com/c2...
Spotify - tinyurl.com/C2...
Odysee (RUclips Alternative) - odysee.com/@ca...
![Diggy Graves - Red Vineyard [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8Ro085T0mnQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I had a doubt. Once the decree happens, doesn't that close the future? Doesn't that kill free will any way, regardless of middle knowledge?
Why assume that the decree is the thing compelling the events to occur and not the events compelling themselves? God can decree something based off of middle knowledge.
Man makes the situation,not the other way round. Freewill is a frustrator even for God it seems because ones outputs, particulary moral, can always exceed any old, as well any new, inputs. As Hericlutus said, you can't step into the same river twice .
Foreknowledge is not causation.
It implies causation though. Since indeterministic systems are by their very nature unpredictable.
@@fanghur Not if you live outside of the realm of space and time. The Bible tells us that God is Spirit and that He inhabits Eternity. God is not subject to the limits of space and time, He is not bound by them. He is looking at us from a different dimension, a higher one. He sees the end from the beginning as if you were watching a road from the sky. The person on the road doesn't know what's going on behind them or in front of them beyond the extent of their sight. God can see the entire road from above, but He can also interact with us in our time-space dimension. That's how God can have complete knowledge and sovereignty over everything but can also allow his creation to have free will in order to have a genuine relationship with us. God bless!
@@Franci0242 that’s fine if you accept the B-theory of time. But most molinists, like William Lane Craig, explicitly affirm presentism, not eternalism. And in presentism, God is every bit as confined to the present as anyone else, since the present is all that exists.
@@fanghur In short, as I mentioned, I think that God created the universe bound by the constraints of space and time, so it is indeed our reality/dimension, but not God’s. I believe that He is “timeless” (eternal) but that He can intersect both dimensions (a sort of C.S. Lewis’ Eternal Now) and that His timeless/eternal dimension is the ultimate dimension and destination. So, I’m definitely not a Molinist and, yes, I do believe Molinism is just a convoluted form of determinism. :)
@@fanghur So, when we talk of God's "foreknowledge" is in fact just knowledge because He sees it and experiences it all at once even though events are definitely distinct (but not in the temporal sense as we perceive it in this dimension). And, obviously, it's very hard to explain and conceive because we don't have experiential knowledge of it right now.
Its mind boggling how people confuse foreknowledge with causation. The whole video’s argument against molinusm is false as it goes against God’s omniscience. Acoordung to their logic, as long is God is omniscient there exist no possibility of free will. In Adam’s case, he could have fallen in every single possible created world so the argument that God caused Adam to sin by creating this world is moot.
This confuses God's decree & will with His omniscience.
@@CaveToTheCrossApologeticsthats precisely what molinism tries to explain. It upholds God’s decree and will while at the same time allowing for creatures to freely choose. The world God goes ahead and creates is ultimately to his pleasing without infringing on lib. free will
Your Calvinism is showing?!?!
Oh no....anyways,
why limit God??? Does an ant understand the mind of a Human?? God created time, Clearly lives outside of it, He does not say exactly all the inner workings of it, so why should we know it, We do know parts do we not?
We do Know there is a call for people to believe, I mean it is all throughout the word right , choose this day who you will serve, You cannot even get a chapter in the gospels without tripping over this call,
And God has said throughout the word he stands with his arms open Choose life, why will you die? We know he cannot lie, IF we believe him we believe what he said do we not? We do know there is choice and dif possibilities too David asked God If the people would turn him over the saul if he stayed God said yes Did God lie?? Don't think this is recorded by accident either
What makes you think we have the right to go further then the word?
Now I don't know molinism I barely understand the idea of Middle knowledge but what does the Word say, Certainly not that God just decreed everything from the beginning of time and there is no value in choice there is no real responsibility to choose ( or some would argue there is responsibility in the same way you would hold a person in a dead person to get a job and pay the bills, not really the same def on responsibility most people understand) And to say that it is true no real ability to choose, what does that say about God even Jesus who said I would to gather you as hens but you would not come
God didn't "create time" because time does not exist. Entropy and decay exists and the measurement of that decay is what we call time. How can there even be such a thing as time if all that truly exists is God and God has no beginning or end.
@@juhadexcelsior wait what? ""all that truly exists is God"" where did this come from? ,,,,God has no beginning or end Yes but clearly the bible teaching many things have an end soo there is that
@@victorcritelli5790 I agree that some things end, but that is just entropy at play. If time can only exist with entropy and God is not an entropic entity and at root, God is the root of all things, then that means time does not really exist as entropy will not always exist. Decay and entropy will be eradicated one day, will time "exist" then? No, not really.
@@juhadexcelsior That makes no sense your saying God cannot create something that will at one time not exist because God is eternal so therefore what will one day not exist really didnt exist in the 1st place??
@@victorcritelli5790 that isn't what I said at all.