Check out the Merch Store: teespring.com/stores/growling-sidewinder-store Mig-23 Download: drive.google.com/file/d/1iwdFGZmhSRtnPMowvW-7-YTMfV21QdBD/view?usp=sharing Hope you guys download and Enjoy the CubanAce Mig-23 and a Big thank you to Danny for helping out in this video. See you guys in the next one.
I am fascinated by the Soviet design philosophy of the Mig-23. Soviet doctrine in the 1980's was one firing pass of two R-23 at BVR @ about Mach 1.2. With the F-16 at its corner speed of about 440 knots, this was supposed to give the R-23 the range advantage over the AIM-7F and force the F-16 defensive. The Mig-23 would then unload the nose and blow through the merge. The Floggers weren't supposed to turn until they had 15 nm separation. Supposedly, the F-16 couldn't turn around fast enough for the Sparrow to catch the Flogger with a 300+ knot speed advantage. If the F-16 or F-16 accelerated to Mach 1.2 and played chicken BVR, the Soviets considered trading one for one with a F-15 or F-16 a good trade since the Flogger was cheaper and more plentiful. When the Iraqi's and Syrian's took heavy losses in the 1980's the Soviet mumbled something in Russian that sounded like, "If you don't use it correctly, I can't guarantee good results."
@@ryanmuir6929 wow that’s interesting info I enjoyed reading that. The MiG 23 was not a dog fighter was not a turn radius type design. It was fast and was a hit and run type jet similar to the mig21. But the doctrine is so Soviet to outnumber your opponent with equipment and a 1/1 trade off is a interesting strategy cause they can replace a 23 easier and faster than a F16. Just like t34’s in WW2 to German panthers.... a numbers game. We didn’t get to see Soviet pilots dogfighting the MiG 23 tho with the more advance floggers too the ML... where as the iraqis and other Arab buyers got a more stripped down export version of the flogger with less skilled pilots.
In a military context it's an important distinction, firing only on valid hostile identified military targets, and avoiding as far as possible any civilian casualties. I say well done G.S.
@@boyteebah3794 And? It's a simulation game, so he's flying a bit "sim-like". He's perfectly fine to fly a bit more like a RL pilot would, it lends to the simulation aspect. No harm in it so all the more to him.
@@Forscythe80 RL pilot my ass... what difference does it make when the enemy plane just crashed in a populated area...at the end of the day, it is just a fcking game
I read a bunch about the Flogger. The only thing it was really good at was high-speed acceleration. So they would try to come into the fight at above Mach 1 and extend away at an even higher speed. It could get close to top speed with the wings at 45 degrees, so they would generally keep them there in a fight. The East Germans liked to use extremely large radius, high altitude loops that a lot of aircraft could not follow, perhaps not even an F-16. It was considered dead meat in any kind of turning fight.
It’s a better rate fighter than nose position - though it can pull ludicrous AOA snap shots when it wants to - and has an obscene power to weight ratio, in a guns only fight, play the vertical with it, very few things will keep up.
3:40 Not only training, they've received the "monkey" versions of the plane. The -23MS they've got was really downgraded and even had avionics and radar from the MiG-21, for example no BVR capability, etc. I am pretty sure the -23 MLD/MLA can out turn the F-5. 16,7/14 (ML Data, MLA and MLD would be even better) vs 16/9° instant/sustained turn rate. Also, circle fighting the -23 was not what it was supposed to do...read the Red Eagles book, even the F-15 drivers were in for a surprise when going against the 4477th pilots and the -23!
The MLD was a very substantial upgrade over the M. Much better radar, with better shootdown capability, terrain scanning radar for night navigation, much better avionics, a more powerful engine with a longer service life, a lighter and stronger chassis, strengthened variawing joint, extended wing angles, helmet mounted HUD, the IRST got added back in, and it was compatible with basically all top of the line minitions the USSR had at the time. It probably elevated the very lackluster original to parity with the tomcat.
Yea, that was the biggest problem with sovet planes. They can build hella lot of it, but good engines and radars that was completely different story, and because of that only modifications build for USSR airforce have full pack.
Every time I see a Tiger II, I remember my childhood in Tabriz, NW Iran, during the bloody war vs. Iraq (1980-1988) . Tabriz - 2nd Tactical Air Base (TAB-2) was the largest nest of iranian Tigers. 24/7 at least 2 Tigers were flying over Tabriz and I was very impressed by them. Of course, Tabriz was an important target for the iraqi MiGs. Air raid sirens and AA-Guns' sounds are very horrific, and at the end several explosions in the city, most of them from civil areas.
I completely forgot that the F5 was a two gun fighter in the modern age of single gun fighters. And I never new that part of the hull moved when they fire. Great video as usual.
Unintentionally historical matchup. After Vietnam the North Vietnamese supplied the Soviets with a captured F-5 (It MIGHT have been an F-5A or F-5C, but I read it was the -5E Tiger II) for use to evaluate. What Soviet test pilots found was that the little Northrop fighter was quite comparable to the MiG-21 in many aspects (The two have strengths and weaknesses which I feel cancel one another out), and found that the early MiG-23's were not able to fight on even foot with the smaller American jet. You could argue the MiG-23 was more intended to clash against fighters like the F-4, but fighting against the F-5 helped the Soviets refine the dogfighting ability of the Flogger later down the line. Overall the Soviets also really liked what Northrop brought to the table; light, agile, simple, rugged, very much an ironically Soviet-esque design philosophy.
Thanks for flying with our country's camouflage, I'm about to join Iran's air force in the next year or two. I can't afford DCS but I managed to buy an old version of BMS 4.0 I think fighter jet simulations can give me a head start in my future job. If you don't mind, I'll ask my future questions from you if I have one. Keep up the good work💪
@Weißer Wolf my dream is getting to fly an F-14 F-14 is everyone's favorite fighter jet in iran because of its incredible performance back in iran _ Iraq war.
Challenge: Soviet doctrine in 1980's was one firing pass with a salvo of two R-23 @ 750 knots. Supposedly, even the F-16 couldn't do a Bat-Turn fast enough to catch the Mig-23 with a Sparrow in the tail, since the Flogger had a 200 knot advantage. The Flogger should not turn until he has 15 NM separation. Probably different with a AIM-120C?
to be fair he landed in the front yard lol I think we can all walk away happy with that result. Only some Grass was damaged in the making of this video. Plus that family is going to have an awesome story to tell about a mig23 crashing in their front yard next time they have company.
@@nemanja162 True, just use the R-74 and before the merge use the R-73 (if its the modern one) or R-60's (if its the one that can carry 4 of em) right before the merge on a frontal aspect shot. then bugger off, no way a F-5 catching it after a merge
@@benoregan9016 I heard of a story during WWII. In the later years of the war, when Nazi Germany was on the defensive, every time there was a dogfight, the civilians, no matter how far out they are from it or how high the dogfight was, they always take shelter somewhere underground because who knows where the bullets that missed will impact at. Could impact at a farmer’s field, a church bell, an abandoned vehicle, or even worse, a person. You just never know where the bullets will go.
A Grumman F-11 test pilot actually shot himself down with cannon rounds. During some sort of test he fired a couple of 20 mm bursts and then descended at full afterburner. Eventually overtaking and running into his own rounds, which totaled the plane.
@Max Povetkin It is relatively well documented, the Pilot was Tom Attridge. Also, a fighter jet will outrun its own bullets, eventually. Bullets slow down to terminal velocity, eventually, while a jet can keep its speed up. The only 'difficulty' is to time a descent profile, so that the trajectories intersect.
Hey, having just joined the swiss air force, I would absolutely love to see you flying one of our f/a-18 or mirages! Anyways keep up the good work, absolutely love your videos.
Is it possible that we know more about jet airplane dogfighting now compared to the 1970's and 1980's? Also, in today's world is there a country that excels in tactics and dogfighting above all others? I know that Americans had a problem in Vietnam with dogfighting Migs until the USA started focusing more on tactics. Love the channel, All the best, Dana Mac.
the technical specs on the F-14, F-5,F-4, and MIG-23 might explain the war record. The MIG is definitely a hit and run machine. Good max speed, decent engine power, but wing loading and thrust to weight favor the American-made machines. It doesn't help the MIG's case that I'm sure the F-14s could see them way before they saw the F-14s.
I appreciate that you are trying to highlight the differences between the aircraft and that is important for a layman to understand what is being done. I think your videos showing mission oriented missions is more important. When a plane has a weakness or a strength the pilots are going to exploit that when they have a chance when operating in a mission scenario. But sometimes, as you highlighted in fighting random aircraft, you’re stuck with the mission and you get a pooch that you just have to screw to achieve the goal. For instance, two F-4 Wild Weasels getting jumped by MiG-29’s or when the EF-111 got jumped and wound up with a maneuver kill. Something like that is important, too, where extraordinary pilots bleed their aircraft white for all the advantage they can squeeze from the airframe to stay alive.
A little request: If possible please consider including in the description wich aircraft you are piloting. For amateurs like me who dont even own the game and just come here to watch the fights it would be helpful as we dont always recognise the cockpit. Of course it makes sense after some seconds but still it would be nice. Great video as always!
Pre 1979 Iran, Iranian pilots were trained in the USA. For F5, F4, and F14 and I'm not 100% sure but I think Cobra pilots also were trained in the USA. The combination of superior American-made beasts over Soviet-made and excellent training program of Americans and hard work of Iranian pilots changed the course of the war. Iraq had a large number of tanks and armored vehicles and more aircraft, But Cobras and Phantoms destroyed ground targets while Tomcat and Tiger gave absolute air superiority to Iran. F14 ace is even an Iranian pilot. Jalil Zandi who have shot down four MiG-23s, two Su-22s, two MiG-21s, and three Mirage F1s with a total of 11 kills.
I have been practicing every day and playing a lot in the F-18C Hornet. Now I know how to cold start, take off and of course land. I have been dogfighting too but only with AI’s. They are not a danger to me so I’m looking forward to play online! Loving the game!
Speaking of not using the guns over a populated area: I live in Denmark and a few hundred meters from my childhood home there lie a street where several of the houses dating back from the early 1900's have bullet holes from a duel between German and British planes during WW2. At the time of that aerial duel the area wasn't as build up as it is today but still there is danger to the civilian population during low altitude fights. The street in question: It is called 'Langgade' and is oriented N to S and I believe that the houses hit lie in the upper northern half: 57 20' 29"N; 9 55' 31"E I can't remember if any civilian were hit or not.
i mean listen, if you're going to let your kids play in the front yard when there is an F5 and a Mig23 dogfighting over your city...you have to accept bad things might happen.
@@GrowlingSidewinder to be fair its kinda irrelevant regardless, you let them out MiG lands on them, you shut them in, MiG lands on them ... its up to luck either way
GS, another great vid. But more so it feels like you are stepping up your game, with regards to WHAT you are focusing on when tutoring us. Just the way you explained what to do if you feel you've lost the circle, to bump your climb 5 degrees. Just the subtle stuff like that. Your vids have certainly taken an evolutionary leap these past months. Keep up the great work, brother!
ya well, either way it did a great job intercepting some aim54s and sidewinders lol. I believe the mig-23 is actually the first aim54 kill for the tomcat.
@@GrowlingSidewinder I am from Russia near where I lived there was an airfield where there were MIG 23s until 1990 and they were used as interceptors there. I saw this plane live.
The idea of a MIG-23 taking on an F-14 was just a pipe dream, they didn't know the capability of the F-14 which is why they thought that. This is where intel really comes into play here as if they did have intel then they wouldn't have tried it.
Whoa, check it, at 6:03 as you are firing on the 23, your aircraft strikes something. Puff of black smoke right when all the alarms started going off in your cockpit.
What is this movy-thing that opens and closes when firering the F-5's canons? I've looked it up before on the internet but could find anything specific.
The MiG-23 was not good at maneuvering battles, but it is a good fast interceptor that carried pretty good missile armament. It is foolish to expect him to have a good turn in a cannon duel.
the thing is, the iraqis recived the MiG-23MS, a variant with a nerfed version of the MiG-21SMT'S radar, R-3S missiles (those aim-9B copies) and only 12 flare charges. this version was weaker than the old MiG-23M. while the iranians recived the F-14D, which is the best F-14 variant ever.
@@moo9557 are you a newbie to the channel? I mean many fights aren't even fair fights like a-4 vs F-22 or F-5 vs F-15 and many many more... They are fun to watch so sometimes its just fun to watch an unfair fight.
Mig 23 was not using its strength in this video. Assuming that it had a trained pilot, Mig 23 would only engage the F5 by high speed attacks with Fox 1 and 2 missiles followed by high speed exit.
Nice to see F5 with IRIAF colors. I remember watching these along with Phantoms and F14s on Iranian news when I was a kid. Of course, it was a horrible feeling and stressful times but now it feels more like nostalgia. I don't think Iranian F14s ever had to merge with Mig 23s. They had far better radars and weaponry hence why the Iranian airforce dominated the first years of war. I think the Iraqi airforce only changed the dynamic a bit later when they received their Mirages. Anyway, another cool video, and I hope we only see these dog fights and enjoy them in the virtual world.
In 1996 during military excises MiG-23 MF "shot down" F-16A using R-23 missile. Advantages of MiG-23 over F-5 , radar, IR sensor, speed , altitude, BVR missile. This fight is like MiG-17 vs F-4 at low speed and altitude engagement.
It seems so crazy that the inherent combat parameters of your engagement, evasion and fight hold you directly over a populated area even in the midst of all that surrounding barren desert; its a freakin simulation but STILL, I'm anxiously fretting that your arial fight would migrate out of civilian harm's way.
I'd say even on your worst day and blind in both eye's, a MG-23 is never going to get the better of your F-5... ^~^ MIG-23, the Edsel of dog fighting... >_
An interesting thing about those statistics is that even the Iraqi government confirmed that the F-14 racked up more kills than the MiG-23, though they obviously said that the number of F-14 losses were higher than Iranian estimates.
When i grew up in Cape Town South Africa during the mid 1980's there was talk of how the Mirage F1-AZ fighter bomber from the SADF held it's own against the MIG-23 flown by Cuban pilots as well as Soviet pilots. Up to today no one really knows what happened over the airspace in Angola during those years and who actually gained air superiority. The South Africans have their own version and the Cubans have their own version. It would really be interresting to see on DCS which aircraft was superior to the other. Oh and ask Ata to please fly the Mirage.
Would like to see some 2v1 pvp dogfights and such with the out numbered aircraft being technically superior. Just to see a change in the dynamic. As well as 2v2 dogfights and team tactics in those situations.
I'd be interested to hear how many of those MiG-23 kills were in dogfights and how many were to the F-14's Sparrows and Phoenix. A MiG-23 vs. F-14 Fox 1 fight might be a fun video too :)
In Iraq-Iran war, an Iranian Air Force F-5 shot down an Iraqi MiG-25 with a Sidewinder missile This was because the MiG-25 had previously been damaged by a Phoenix missile
(angry missile approaches) Normal people: oh fuck oh shit oh fuck oh shit! Growling sidewinder: so that's how it's going to be... Hehehehe (lubes up flight stick with religious Intent)
"I don't wanna be Greedy", so I will tease his azz until he schitnists in his flight suit... Then BBBrrrrrrbbbbb. Don't squeeze the Charmin! LOL. No "Floggin" goin on here accept in reverse.
I imagine this is not unlike the Mirage F1 versus MiG-23. The F-5 and Mirage F-1 own the horizontal and the Flogger can climb, dive, and BVR better. In Angola, the Floggers stayed inside their SAM coverage at higher altitudes. They would rely on BVR and boom and zoom tactics if they ever met SAAF F-1s.
CO be like: "Oh, you don't wanna shoot 20mm into somebody's front yards, but it's okay to splash bandits on their front yards? What part of 'hearts and minds" do you want me to explain to you?" That being said: very interesting numbers about Iraqi MiG-23s against Iranian-flown US aircraft.Would have loved to know who trained the aircrews/air forces both Iran and Iraq.
@@michaelstodovski2219 Actually, some French Rafale pilots “killed“ a F-22 during a mock air combat in 2008. Edit: So It’s a possibility the French will win, but that’s very slim.
Check out the Merch Store: teespring.com/stores/growling-sidewinder-store
Mig-23 Download: drive.google.com/file/d/1iwdFGZmhSRtnPMowvW-7-YTMfV21QdBD/view?usp=sharing
Hope you guys download and Enjoy the CubanAce Mig-23 and a Big thank you to Danny for helping out in this video. See you guys in the next one.
AMX brasilian. Please.
Once again, thanks for the download link!
I am fascinated by the Soviet design philosophy of the Mig-23. Soviet doctrine in the 1980's was one firing pass of two R-23 at BVR @ about Mach 1.2. With the F-16 at its corner speed of about 440 knots, this was supposed to give the R-23 the range advantage over the AIM-7F and force the F-16 defensive. The Mig-23 would then unload the nose and blow through the merge. The Floggers weren't supposed to turn until they had 15 nm separation. Supposedly, the F-16 couldn't turn around fast enough for the Sparrow to catch the Flogger with a 300+ knot speed advantage. If the F-16 or F-16 accelerated to Mach 1.2 and played chicken BVR, the Soviets considered trading one for one with a F-15 or F-16 a good trade since the Flogger was cheaper and more plentiful. When the Iraqi's and Syrian's took heavy losses in the 1980's the Soviet mumbled something in Russian that sounded like, "If you don't use it correctly, I can't guarantee good results."
@@ryanmuir6929 wow that’s interesting info I enjoyed reading that. The MiG 23 was not a dog fighter was not a turn radius type design. It was fast and was a hit and run type jet similar to the mig21. But the doctrine is so Soviet to outnumber your opponent with equipment and a 1/1 trade off is a interesting strategy cause they can replace a 23 easier and faster than a F16. Just like t34’s in WW2 to German panthers.... a numbers game.
We didn’t get to see Soviet pilots dogfighting the MiG 23 tho with the more advance floggers too the ML... where as the iraqis and other Arab buyers got a more stripped down export version of the flogger with less skilled pilots.
Also has DS created a more proper mig23 ? This is the two seater UB trainer model... the fighter was a single seater
"don´t wanna hit any houses with shots" - Take down a plane instead
I was thinking the same thing.
In a military context it's an important distinction, firing only on valid hostile identified military targets, and avoiding as far as possible any civilian casualties.
I say well done G.S.
@@simonoconnor7759 its just a fcking game
@@boyteebah3794 And? It's a simulation game, so he's flying a bit "sim-like". He's perfectly fine to fly a bit more like a RL pilot would, it lends to the simulation aspect. No harm in it so all the more to him.
@@Forscythe80 RL pilot my ass... what difference does it make when the enemy plane just crashed in a populated area...at the end of the day, it is just a fcking game
I read a bunch about the Flogger. The only thing it was really good at was high-speed acceleration. So they would try to come into the fight at above Mach 1 and extend away at an even higher speed. It could get close to top speed with the wings at 45 degrees, so they would generally keep them there in a fight. The East Germans liked to use extremely large radius, high altitude loops that a lot of aircraft could not follow, perhaps not even an F-16. It was considered dead meat in any kind of turning fight.
Mig-23 was supposed to be a long range interceptor.
Not a dogfighter.
But they had problems making the armaments intended for it.
Correction: MiG 28 vs MiG 23
@@akiara8491 I've got a great polaroid of it.
FYI: he is referring to movie TOP GUN. don't comment and get whooshed.
Meanwhile, Goose is looking at that picture going, "Why does the cockpit look exactly like the F-5?"
@Otten Star r/whooosh
I was looking at the F5 thinking 🤔 why does this look so familiar 😅 if only it was black that would be cool AF
not finished watching obviously as was only uploaded now but got to say i love the dogfighting videos keep them coming :)
wilco brother thank you for the support I'll keep cranking them out if you guys keep on watchin' them.
@@GrowlingSidewinder what are those things that pop out in front of your guns before and when you're firing ??
@@lumberjackcharlie6154 they are the gun covers, the GUN COVERS prevent the fumes from the gun from getting into the f-5 engines and causing a stall.
@@GrowlingSidewinder I love the F5 dogfights, they remind me of the old Anime/Manga series Area 88. Thanks for them!
I will forever beg you to do a dogfight series using the f15 so I can see how to properly dogfight with its advantages
It’s a better rate fighter than nose position - though it can pull ludicrous AOA snap shots when it wants to - and has an obscene power to weight ratio, in a guns only fight, play the vertical with it, very few things will keep up.
Cool, gonna use this for when the new WT update comes out
3:40 Not only training, they've received the "monkey" versions of the plane. The -23MS they've got was really downgraded and even had avionics and radar from the MiG-21, for example no BVR capability, etc.
I am pretty sure the -23 MLD/MLA can out turn the F-5. 16,7/14 (ML Data, MLA and MLD would be even better) vs 16/9° instant/sustained turn rate.
Also, circle fighting the -23 was not what it was supposed to do...read the Red Eagles book, even the F-15 drivers were in for a surprise when going against the 4477th pilots and the -23!
The MLD was a very substantial upgrade over the M. Much better radar, with better shootdown capability, terrain scanning radar for night navigation, much better avionics, a more powerful engine with a longer service life, a lighter and stronger chassis, strengthened variawing joint, extended wing angles, helmet mounted HUD, the IRST got added back in, and it was compatible with basically all top of the line minitions the USSR had at the time.
It probably elevated the very lackluster original to parity with the tomcat.
It always helps to have people in the comments section who know more than the content creator about the subject they're supposed to be covering.
Yea, that was the biggest problem with sovet planes. They can build hella lot of it, but good engines and radars that was completely different story, and because of that only modifications build for USSR airforce have full pack.
Every time I see a Tiger II, I remember my childhood in Tabriz, NW Iran, during the bloody war vs. Iraq (1980-1988) . Tabriz - 2nd Tactical Air Base (TAB-2) was the largest nest of iranian Tigers. 24/7 at least 2 Tigers were flying over Tabriz and I was very impressed by them. Of course, Tabriz was an important target for the iraqi MiGs. Air raid sirens and AA-Guns' sounds are very horrific, and at the end several explosions in the city, most of them from civil areas.
خلبانامون حسابی گل کاشتن:)🇮🇷❤
@@mohammadrezaghorbani3137 همه مون مدیون دلیرمردی و پایداری این دلاوران هستیم.
@@mehdijaghubi1098 همینطوره❤🇮🇷💔
Suggestion: F-4 Phantom vs Mig-23
F-4 win! F-4 vs Su-57... F-4 will win. Or do you doubt?
@@MrVDSky P-26A vs Su-57 the ultimate match up!
@@Viviana088 po 2 vs su 57
@@Viviana088 😂
Iraqi pilot: I want an F-14
Saddam: we have F-14s at home
*F-14s at home*: MiG-23
Looooool Great comment.
I completely forgot that the F5 was a two gun fighter in the modern age of single gun fighters. And I never new that part of the hull moved when they fire. Great video as usual.
What does that Hull part do?
@@ibum4908prevents gas and other particles from the gun exhaust from entering the engines air intake I believe
Unintentionally historical matchup.
After Vietnam the North Vietnamese supplied the Soviets with a captured F-5 (It MIGHT have been an F-5A or F-5C, but I read it was the -5E Tiger II) for use to evaluate. What Soviet test pilots found was that the little Northrop fighter was quite comparable to the MiG-21 in many aspects (The two have strengths and weaknesses which I feel cancel one another out), and found that the early MiG-23's were not able to fight on even foot with the smaller American jet. You could argue the MiG-23 was more intended to clash against fighters like the F-4, but fighting against the F-5 helped the Soviets refine the dogfighting ability of the Flogger later down the line. Overall the Soviets also really liked what Northrop brought to the table; light, agile, simple, rugged, very much an ironically Soviet-esque design philosophy.
Would be neat to see a F-20 Tigershark in a dogflight.
I really want a F-20 in DCS, along with IAI Lavi, Yak-141.
@@emanuelfigueroa5657 Forgotten aircraft in DCS just like how H3VR includes Forgotten Weapons
JF17 would seem to be the real life iteration of a F-20
Thanks for flying with our country's camouflage, I'm about to join Iran's air force in the next year or two. I can't afford DCS but I managed to buy an old version of BMS 4.0
I think fighter jet simulations can give me a head start in my future job.
If you don't mind, I'll ask my future questions from you if I have one.
Keep up the good work💪
امید وارم خیلی زود تر بتوتید فعالیتتون رو در حوضه خلبانی شروع کنید
ارزوی موفقیت برای شما و خلبان های با تجربمون🇮🇷🇮🇷❤❤⚘⚘
@Weißer Wolf my dream is getting to fly an F-14
F-14 is everyone's favorite fighter jet in iran because of its incredible performance back in iran _ Iraq war.
@@amirkarimian4245 yeah its performance is so good that it got shot down by MIG21s
@@husseinoskovjino9398 nothing is invincible but check K/D ratios
@@hphp31416 I saw it a while ago on Wikipedia it said that Iraq had less destroyed planes in dogfights than Iran
Foreshadowing war thunder top tier
Uhhhh
more f-5 content please, really like that plane
Can you fly the mig-23 in the next video? Don’t think I’ve seen a video with you flying the flogger
It's just an su25 flight model
Challenge: Soviet doctrine in 1980's was one firing pass with a salvo of two R-23 @ 750 knots. Supposedly, even the F-16 couldn't do a Bat-Turn fast enough to catch the Mig-23 with a Sparrow in the tail, since the Flogger had a 200 knot advantage. The Flogger should not turn until he has 15 NM separation. Probably different with a AIM-120C?
Pretty sure the MiG-23 in game is the UB trainer, no Radar.
Against f16 could fight mig23mld
I love that you payed attention to what was below your target before firing.
Another great video! I always learn something from watching your videos and the F-5 vs MiG-23 is an interesting matchup of contemporary fighters.
Contemporary circa 1980
Nice seeing you here
@@burningpotato9447 likewise!
@@MustangsCanTurnToo indeed - contemporary with each other. Same generation/era
Imagine having a normal day and you look up and see a MiG-23 and F-5 dogfighting.
THIS POST WAS MADE BY IRAQ-IRAN WAR VETERANS.
GS: I don't want my bullets to hit a family's house
Also GS: *decides to let enemy aircraft crash into city*
....and launches spray of victory flares too!
to be fair he landed in the front yard lol I think we can all walk away happy with that result. Only some Grass was damaged in the making of this video. Plus that family is going to have an awesome story to tell about a mig23 crashing in their front yard next time they have company.
Yeah probably, but the shockwave would still do quite some damage... Oh and a MiG is laying in their front yard 😁
I love how GS is doing a knight style match here. Nothing to do with that Mercenary material.
Bu-bu-but-- How are we honest warmongers supposed to make a living with Minimum Mercenary Wage? Those "secondary" targets are but a few spare pennies!
@@bluecaptainIT you're definitely Galm/Hitman material.
@@tonyrun5802 jokes on you, I'll start my PS2 and liberate Erect-- I mean, Directus!
Also, why am I hearing dead memes over the radio?
@@bluecaptainIT m8 u're awesome
GS is gangster until *INFERNO* starts playing!
THE FORESHADOWING FOR WAR THUNDER
i would never dogfight a F-5 with a MiG-23.... id just use the speed and bugger off
This is the right life choice.
Id use the r24 missiles from afar and leave after
@@nemanja162 True, just use the R-74 and before the merge use the R-73 (if its the modern one) or R-60's (if its the one that can carry 4 of em) right before the merge on a frontal aspect shot. then bugger off, no way a F-5 catching it after a merge
Yup try to hit it with a BVR missile and then run away. Maybe try to jump it with a rear aspect r60
It’s kinda like he knew what the new War Thunder wears gonna be. Lol
I've always wondered what happens to the rounds that miss the target. How many people, animals, and other objects were hit, when there was a dogfight.
I think they explode after a certain distance thought that may just be aa guns
@@benoregan9016 I heard of a story during WWII. In the later years of the war, when Nazi Germany was on the defensive, every time there was a dogfight, the civilians, no matter how far out they are from it or how high the dogfight was, they always take shelter somewhere underground because who knows where the bullets that missed will impact at. Could impact at a farmer’s field, a church bell, an abandoned vehicle, or even worse, a person. You just never know where the bullets will go.
@@benoregan9016 The F-5 20mm cannons are impact initiated, as are the 23mm for the MiG-23.
A Grumman F-11 test pilot actually shot himself down with cannon rounds.
During some sort of test he fired a couple of 20 mm bursts and then descended at full afterburner.
Eventually overtaking and running into his own rounds, which totaled the plane.
@Max Povetkin It is relatively well documented, the Pilot was Tom Attridge.
Also, a fighter jet will outrun its own bullets, eventually. Bullets slow down to terminal velocity, eventually, while a jet can keep its speed up. The only 'difficulty' is to time a descent profile, so that the trajectories intersect.
Hey, having just joined the swiss air force, I would absolutely love to see you flying one of our f/a-18 or mirages! Anyways keep up the good work, absolutely love your videos.
@@nevergonna....7066 Swiss Air Force is 9-5 job on weekdays :D
@@hphp31416 Say that now.
He: **doesnt want to shoot at the ground to hit civillian houses**
Also Him: **makes a whole mig23 crash into those buildings**
I love the Flogger, nice video GS, keep it up.
P.S. I love your consideration of people's houses below you, it adds to the immersion.
Could you try fighting in the mig 23 sometime?
Mig 23 wasnt a dogfighter at all
Pretty soon we can see this matchup in warthunder
The F-5 is one underrated jet, cheap, reliable and a great track record of 60 years of service all across the globe.
It’s maybe the worst mass produced jet lol
Is it possible that we know more about jet airplane dogfighting now compared to the 1970's and 1980's? Also, in today's world is there a country that excels in tactics and dogfighting above all others? I know that Americans had a problem in Vietnam with dogfighting Migs until the USA started focusing more on tactics.
Love the channel,
All the best, Dana Mac.
Just look at those beautiful clouds. It's hard to believe sometimes just how far graphics processing has come in the last 10 or 20 years.
the technical specs on the F-14, F-5,F-4, and MIG-23 might explain the war record. The MIG is definitely a hit and run machine. Good max speed, decent engine power, but wing loading and thrust to weight favor the American-made machines. It doesn't help the MIG's case that I'm sure the F-14s could see them way before they saw the F-14s.
I appreciate that you are trying to highlight the differences between the aircraft and that is important for a layman to understand what is being done. I think your videos showing mission oriented missions is more important. When a plane has a weakness or a strength the pilots are going to exploit that when they have a chance when operating in a mission scenario. But sometimes, as you highlighted in fighting random aircraft, you’re stuck with the mission and you get a pooch that you just have to screw to achieve the goal. For instance, two F-4 Wild Weasels getting jumped by MiG-29’s or when the EF-111 got jumped and wound up with a maneuver kill. Something like that is important, too, where extraordinary pilots bleed their aircraft white for all the advantage they can squeeze from the airframe to stay alive.
A little request: If possible please consider including in the description wich aircraft you are piloting. For amateurs like me who dont even own the game and just come here to watch the fights it would be helpful as we dont always recognise the cockpit. Of course it makes sense after some seconds but still it would be nice. Great video as always!
Best RUclips channel out there especially with GS narrating the Voice.
Always good to recap these critical dogfight tactics, thanks a lot for this new bfm lesson GS
Pre 1979 Iran, Iranian pilots were trained in the USA. For F5, F4, and F14 and I'm not 100% sure but I think Cobra pilots also were trained in the USA.
The combination of superior American-made beasts over Soviet-made and excellent training program of Americans and hard work of Iranian pilots changed the course of the war. Iraq had a large number of tanks and armored vehicles and more aircraft, But Cobras and Phantoms destroyed ground targets while Tomcat and Tiger gave absolute air superiority to Iran.
F14 ace is even an Iranian pilot. Jalil Zandi who have shot down four MiG-23s, two Su-22s, two MiG-21s, and three Mirage F1s with a total of 11 kills.
I have been practicing every day and playing a lot in the F-18C Hornet. Now I know how to cold start, take off and of course land. I have been dogfighting too but only with AI’s. They are not a danger to me so I’m looking forward to play online! Loving the game!
I used to get owned in the F-18 by AI in dogfights until I learned to employ the G limiter override.
Funny - You didn't want to fire you cannon into the city, but had no problem sending a flaming MiG 23 their way! LOL!
Biology required reading on molecules, or watching new Growling Sidewinder video. Guess which one I decided to do.
Speaking of not using the guns over a populated area: I live in Denmark and a few hundred meters from my childhood home there lie a street where several of the houses dating back from the early 1900's have bullet holes from a duel between German and British planes during WW2. At the time of that aerial duel the area wasn't as build up as it is today but still there is danger to the civilian population during low altitude fights.
The street in question: It is called 'Langgade' and is oriented N to S and I believe that the houses hit lie in the upper northern half: 57 20' 29"N; 9 55' 31"E
I can't remember if any civilian were hit or not.
lol at not shooting at the houses but sending a Mig into them instead
Man, there could be children playing in the front yard!! What were you thinking. Omg 😀😀😀😀😀
i mean listen, if you're going to let your kids play in the front yard when there is an F5 and a Mig23 dogfighting over your city...you have to accept bad things might happen.
@@GrowlingSidewinder to be fair its kinda irrelevant regardless, you let them out MiG lands on them, you shut them in, MiG lands on them ... its up to luck either way
Growling Sidewinder, I'd love to see what you can achieve flying the Flogger...
I love how the guns on the f5 pop up
WHAT ABOUT THE AIR COMBAT BETWEEN MI-24 HIND, AND THE AH-1COBRA GUNSHIPS? THAT WAS IN FAVOUR OF THE MI-24 HIND, SO DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS TO SOON!
Both helicopters are not available in this sim yet but we will get a Mi-24P soon.
To me, there are almost no better looking fighters than the F-5 or F-20. The profile is gorgeous.
GS, another great vid. But more so it feels like you are stepping up your game, with regards to WHAT you are focusing on when tutoring us. Just the way you explained what to do if you feel you've lost the circle, to bump your climb 5 degrees. Just the subtle stuff like that. Your vids have certainly taken an evolutionary leap these past months. Keep up the great work, brother!
I love how you're worried about shooting someone's house. 😆
Love how you are so considerate to the town
Well, the MIG-23, in principle, was not intended for close combat, but was used as an interceptor.
ya well, either way it did a great job intercepting some aim54s and sidewinders lol. I believe the mig-23 is actually the first aim54 kill for the tomcat.
@@GrowlingSidewinder I am from Russia near where I lived there was an airfield where there were MIG 23s until 1990 and they were used as interceptors there. I saw this plane live.
The idea of a MIG-23 taking on an F-14 was just a pipe dream, they didn't know the capability of the F-14 which is why they thought that. This is where intel really comes into play here as if they did have intel then they wouldn't have tried it.
Oh, but they did try and ultimately managed to splash two Tomcats. The 23 ML had a good radar and was a capable dogfighter.
AFAIK there is the official Mig-23 module in development
Whoa, check it, at 6:03 as you are firing on the 23, your aircraft strikes something. Puff of black smoke right when all the alarms started going off in your cockpit.
I love how in the first round you were shooting like a potato but still wiped the fucking floor with him
What is this movy-thing that opens and closes when firering the F-5's canons? I've looked it up before on the internet but could find anything specific.
Gas deflector. It redirects the gas from the guns upwards so it is not inhaled by the engines which could cause a flameout.
Also to note, the first stage of the trigger opens them, the second one fires
The F5 doesnt have a gunsight that helps you lead the target? They came out with that tech during the Korean war.
MiG-23 was named "one of the worst Russian aircrafts ever built".
The MiG-23 was not good at maneuvering battles, but it is a good fast interceptor that carried pretty good missile armament.
It is foolish to expect him to have a good turn in a cannon duel.
the thing is, the iraqis recived the MiG-23MS, a variant with a nerfed version of the MiG-21SMT'S radar, R-3S missiles (those aim-9B copies) and only 12 flare charges. this version was weaker than the old MiG-23M.
while the iranians recived the F-14D, which is the best F-14 variant ever.
Dude just predicted the June war thunder update
F4 phantom vs f-35 lightning
That's not even a fight, the F-35 would win every time unless the F-4 had a significant advantage over the F-35, like the Rafale video.
@@moo9557 are you a newbie to the channel? I mean many fights aren't even fair fights like a-4 vs F-22 or F-5 vs F-15 and many many more... They are fun to watch so sometimes its just fun to watch an unfair fight.
I would love to see an engagement between several prop fighters and a low alt low speed modern jet. Anyone else?
Mig 23 was not using its strength in this video. Assuming that it had a trained pilot, Mig 23 would only engage the F5 by high speed attacks with Fox 1 and 2 missiles followed by high speed exit.
Nice to see F5 with IRIAF colors. I remember watching these along with Phantoms and F14s on Iranian news when I was a kid. Of course, it was a horrible feeling and stressful times but now it feels more like nostalgia. I don't think Iranian F14s ever had to merge with Mig 23s. They had far better radars and weaponry hence why the Iranian airforce dominated the first years of war. I think the Iraqi airforce only changed the dynamic a bit later when they received their Mirages. Anyway, another cool video, and I hope we only see these dog fights and enjoy them in the virtual world.
The when they received the F1’s ?? The export version MiG 23’s had garbage radars .. but the Soviet airforce versions where much more advanced.
@@wozja Yes Mirage F1 had far better electronics and wepons and actually could cause trouble for Tomcats.
In 1996 during military excises MiG-23 MF "shot down" F-16A using R-23 missile. Advantages of MiG-23 over F-5 , radar, IR sensor, speed , altitude, BVR missile. This fight is like MiG-17 vs F-4 at low speed and altitude engagement.
This is a mod of the MiG 23 that uses the Su25 flight model and can only carry IR missiles and ground attack weapons.
*doesn't want to shoot stray bullets into the city...proceeds to shoot down aircraft over a populated city..*
It seems so crazy that the inherent combat parameters of your engagement, evasion and fight hold you directly over a populated area even in the midst of all that surrounding barren desert; its a freakin simulation but STILL, I'm anxiously fretting that your arial fight would migrate out of civilian harm's way.
Short and sweet :) Thanks GS
I'd say even on your worst day and blind in both eye's, a MG-23 is never going to get the better of your F-5... ^~^ MIG-23, the Edsel of dog fighting... >_
An interesting thing about those statistics is that even the Iraqi government confirmed that the F-14 racked up more kills than the MiG-23, though they obviously said that the number of F-14 losses were higher than Iranian estimates.
When i grew up in Cape Town South Africa during the mid 1980's there was talk of how the Mirage F1-AZ fighter bomber from the SADF held it's own against the MIG-23 flown by Cuban pilots as well as Soviet pilots. Up to today no one really knows what happened over the airspace in Angola during those years and who actually gained air superiority. The South Africans have their own version and the Cubans have their own version. It would really be interresting to see on DCS which aircraft was superior to the other. Oh and ask Ata to please fly the Mirage.
Would like to see some 2v1 pvp dogfights and such with the out numbered aircraft being technically superior. Just to see a change in the dynamic. As well as 2v2 dogfights and team tactics in those situations.
I'd be interested to hear how many of those MiG-23 kills were in dogfights and how many were to the F-14's Sparrows and Phoenix. A MiG-23 vs. F-14 Fox 1 fight might be a fun video too :)
A phoenix really shouldnt be able to down a fighter of any sort. It is too sluggish to track anything that can manouver to evade.
@@egoalter1276tell that to the iranians
@@mintman825 I'm avare Iran used it to good effect. I'm less certain they shot them at targets that were manouvering.
In Iraq-Iran war, an Iranian Air Force F-5 shot down an Iraqi MiG-25 with a Sidewinder missile
This was because the MiG-25 had previously been damaged by a Phoenix missile
I think it's time for some Rise of Flight / WW1 dogfights. Come on baby!
Growly, the new kill music was an unexpected bonus. Nice touch.
(angry missile approaches)
Normal people: oh fuck oh shit oh fuck oh shit!
Growling sidewinder: so that's how it's going to be... Hehehehe (lubes up flight stick with religious Intent)
The F-5 freedom fighter.. Such a beautiful aircraft
I wonder how many wt players came across this video after the dev stream lol
Never heard a single good thing about the MiG-23. Has to be one of the worst aircraft they ever built.
they had a good top speed (somewhat faster than a phantom)
Ahah no way this get recommended just as wt added the mig 23 and the f5
Could you do a video where you are in the MiG-23 yourself?
@Директор Кренник а вы долго на этом канале?
@Директор Кренник сразу скажу это самый лучший канал по dcs
Хороший канал, давно смотрю
This is getting recommended after the new WT update added both these aircraft.
"I don't wanna be Greedy", so I will tease his azz until he schitnists in his flight suit... Then BBBrrrrrrbbbbb. Don't squeeze the Charmin! LOL. No "Floggin" goin on here accept in reverse.
I imagine this is not unlike the Mirage F1 versus MiG-23. The F-5 and Mirage F-1 own the horizontal and the Flogger can climb, dive, and BVR better. In Angola, the Floggers stayed inside their SAM coverage at higher altitudes. They would rely on BVR and boom and zoom tactics if they ever met SAAF F-1s.
I don’t play DCS or have any idea about tactics, but I really enjoy watching your videos.
CO be like: "Oh, you don't wanna shoot 20mm into somebody's front yards, but it's okay to splash bandits on their front yards? What part of 'hearts and minds" do you want me to explain to you?"
That being said: very interesting numbers about Iraqi MiG-23s against Iranian-flown US aircraft.Would have loved to know who trained the aircrews/air forces both Iran and Iraq.
Gotta consider the possibility of a stray round hitting an innocent animal
58 of those dislikes were MiG-23 pilots who got shot down.
Everytime I see any of these videos with the F-5 in them I click on it instantly.
Till the end, I finally realized this is a fox2 fight, but you only launched one missile.
I don't even play this game but I still enjoy these videos! Great presentation and commentary.
Exceptionally done!👍👍
Could we get an f-22 vs ATE please
YES do it for us Frenchies, pleaseeee.
Frenchies will still lose lol
@@michaelstodovski2219 Actually, some French Rafale pilots “killed“ a F-22 during a mock air combat in 2008.
Edit: So It’s a possibility the French will win, but that’s very slim.