27 22 Q&A Judo Compared to Jiujitsu
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Jocko Podcast 27 - 01:50:17 - 02:01:41
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You guys didn’t mantion that in Judo there ARE chokes and arm bars and locks. Its not only pins
The amount of BJJ players that don’t know this is surprising. I remember when Ronda Rousey first came on the scene there was an interview with a BJJ Instructor kept asking what her BJJ background was, and where she learned submissions. He did not understand she kept answering, “I’ve only trained Judo my entire life”
And their chokes is extremely fast ..like in a split of a second…and very painful . I started doing judo a week ago , was doing jiujitsu before that , and I really am enjoying it and amazed by it .
@@m.a.j593What would you say is more effective?
i mean, drug testing in Judo, bjj….. does not have
@@m.a.j593 That speed is kind of a negative too. Yes, it can be useful to do subs really fast but the real reason behind this is the rules of judo, because the match will be stopped pretty quickly if there is no clear "advance" in the technique. However it can be a good thing that you take your time with your submission attemp - position before submission is the mantra in BJJ. Why take the risk, if you have a good postion and control? If it can be done safer by taking your time with it, then is might be the better way to do it.
Judoka here - a fair commentary save that it wasn’t mentioned that choke, strangle and armbar submissions are still a significant part of the Judo curriculum.
Although BJJ obviously specialises in submissions, a senior Judoka would have no issue submitting someone who had no or limited training in this area.
One more thing - Judo “pins” (“holds”) are much more effective than than many realise. A hold by a Judoka with a solid ground game will immobilise the arms and can crush the chest / neck / head. The guy being held is going nowhere and may even tap out if crushed hard enough. It can also create a dominant position in which to apply a submission.
I appreciate the Judo ground game is child’s play compared to BJJ, but against any opponent other than a BJJ player or good wrestler it’s more than good enough.
Also in a street situation, strikes can be used against the pinned opponent.
I agree for the most part, but I have to say that those pins are used in BJJ too - not so much by scoring or winnig a match, but they are there and it is pretty regular that people tap because of pins (mostly knee on belly, or really nasty side control (where shoulder pushes the face another direction than the rest of the body). At least this happens while sparring, maybe not so much in competitions.
I studied Judo in the military. My Sensei was one of the guys that the Strategic Air Command sent to Japan to learn what they considerd the most effective way to fight in combat. I slammed a dude who tried to rob me in a Greyhound bus terminal and he just layed there for a bit and gave me plenty of time to escape. I also slammed a guy when he attacked me playing volleyball, it took him awhile to get up before leaving the game embarrassed as hell. Nothing can end a fight faste than slamming someone hard..A saying in Judo is "Let the ground do the hitting"
Great commentary! One thing i have a different opinion though, best to learn Judo before juijitsu. Concentrating too much on ground before stand up throws can slow down your progress in throwing later on. This observation was made by jigoro kano in the book "mind over muscle".
Totallt agree. Judo is also so tough on the body once you get older
100 percent correct
I agree with you 100 percent
Bjj is not a complete art and will get you jacked up
Thats a lie, wrestlers have less take downs
Leg grabs were not banned because of wrestlers. No wrestler ever won a big international ijf tournament. They were partially banned in 2010 because they usually only scored koka or yuko, which is like advantage in bjj, and then he would play defensively to ride out the time to win on points. In 2013 they were banned outright to differentiate themselves from wrestling which the IOC dropped from the Olympics temporarily.
Bro, IJF banned leg grabs because the IOC stated that judo looked like wrestling with a jacket. THe IJF was forced to abandon leg grabs. Jacko doesn't know what he's talking about.
It does suck that the double leg grab was banned, but i do think the defensive moves in Judo against leg grabs make leg grabs not that necessary of a move to know
Facts: A judo player fighting your average bad guy on the street will win the confrontation much quicker, with less effort and danger of getting injured himself compared to a Jiu Jitsu player. Problem is JJ player will probably submit the Judo player on the ground in a training setting where there are mats, pulling guard is ok, Judo player has to engage on the ground, no punches etc... so they think its better overall. Same goes for wrestling compared to JJ. For fighting Judo and wrestling are better no doubt, plus as a judo or wrestler you train Jiu Jitsu for 3-6 months and that familiarity with Jiu Jitsu brings the Jiu Jitsu players you can probably control on the ground all the way up to brown belt. Thats if you are already a high level Judo/Wrestler.
and that's assuming the Judo player doesn't pull an Atemi waza to the temp once he's got you on the floor.... frankly getting a good throw, then a killer strike... I don't know why we'd want to roll around on the floor for ages after that.
@@thomasshirrefs5331 you know most bjj guys go for armdrag>backtake>rncs right? We know it's not smart to go to the ground. And we won't need to because your average person is slow as shit
I'll put my money on the judo guy winning the ground fighting if the judo guy gets to trowh the bjj guy on the concrete first. Which is the likely outcome.
@@guusgeluk3693 nah bjj guys got more hands than judo guys. and every other judo guy got a hip replacement surgery.
@@asto5767 thats cap. bjj player can't put their socks on without warming up, and enjoy those neck fusions. judokas are way tougher than bjj players.
Judo is the only martial art that uses the concrete as a weapon. The best part about that weapon is that it is everywhere you go, and you don't have to carry it.
That's amazing when you put it like that..its arguably the most lethal
That's why I really want to get into Judo. The ground always wins no matter what.
Worst part you're going to jail for at least 20 years lmao
@@PDVarts a bit more situational I’d definitely say lmao. Rather be carried out by 12 then carried by 6
I mean you're not wrong, but the same can be said for a Muay Thai guy. He's body is the weapon. Same for a BJJ guy, Karate guy...etc. Martial arts are made for you to always "carry" a weapon with you. Sure, a judo throw on concrete can kill you or hurt you really bad. Same for an elbow to the head, a choke, etc
Should have this conversation with Travis Stevens.
Travis is an absolute animal. Love that guy. He's why I started learning Judo.
@@Kwisatz-Chaderach he'd easily submit jotcko as well
Several wrong things in the podcast by Jocko:
1. Leg grabs were NOT banned from Olympic competition because of wrestlers coming in. It was simply because IJF wanted judo to look different from wrestling. In fact, Japanese themselves wanted to keep legs and when they train they usually use them. Note that the styles of Judo are vastly different; Japanese Judo vs. Georgian Judo for instance. So its not even clear which particular style is being discussed.
2. It is NOT true that BJJ is harder to learn than Judo -- it is known that the stand up part of Judo is the hardest to learn in all of grappling, that is why, Judo training for kids starts top down, not bottom up. So generally the progression is: learn Judo first, rest are much easier. I've done BJJ after Judo and in parallel to Judo and its much easier to learn. BJJ guys going to Judo in their 20's, this is hard to get good at
That is one reason why judo kind of sucks. To be effective with it, you would have to put a HUGE amount of time in it - and even still, if the other guy is much bigger and/or stronger, most of your throws just don't work anymore (like with a woman against a man). That isn't so in BJJ - sure, you absolutely suck the first year in it too, but gradually you are going to get better and while strenght or size will still be an issue, it isn't as bad as it is while standing.
It is good, when something is easy to learn (or easier, there are still hundreds of things to learn).
And if you want just to learn how to fight then wrestling is always the best option.
@@JoriMikke78 well, depends. Many good judo dojos where older people train actually teach more groundwork than standing in order to minimize injury risk and to see faster progress. And IMO, that type of groundwork is actually excellent for self-defense. You emphasize top position, pins, control, passing, speed and pressure. So that is much faster to learn. For these reasons, for self-defense, Judo is great. Wrestling is great too for the same reasons.
@@marchosancho I don't doubt that there are many dojos who do just that, but at the same time it is quite obvious that most are don't - in my country it is the smaller dojos in smaller towns and even that is kind of forced, since their best (and youngest) people tend to move to the bigger schools, who train mainly for competitions.
I would also say that working from the bottom is even more important, since if you land on the top many of the techniques and moves are kind of obvious or at least easier to learn. Fighting from the bottom is the worst position (in self defence) if you don't know nothing. Half guard from under is very useful and pretty realistic (and I just heard that 60% of all of the sweeps etc. happens from that position in MMA/UFC).
Judo seems to train people to turtle up if taken down and while that indeed is smart when fighting for points (in BJJ it negates the pass - if done withing 3 seconds) it might not be so on self defence.
@@JoriMikke78 that is a different discussion we are getting into, on the pros/cons of Judo vs. BJJ groundwork for self-defense. My original comment was to the wrong things said in the video by Jocko. They are incorrect and misleading yet somehow widespread in the U.S.
I have to disagree with jacko. He is absolutely wrong when he stated on 3:06 that judo banned leg grabs because of wrestlers. The IOC (International Olympic committee) approached IJF (International judo federation) to distinguish itself from wrestling in the Olympics. The IJF was forced to change their rules or to be eliminated from the Olympics. It's obvious Jacko was conversing with wrestlers with his urban myth. I'm a BB in judo and BJJ. You have to be a BB in judo to compete in high level IJF sanctioned circuits. I always tell parents to start children in judo for 2 reasons. It's harder to learn takedowns then to learn submissions from the ground and it develops a better base that BJJ guys do not posses. The pins are very useful when you slam someone on the ground and they are attempting to standup. The pin allows a judoka in preventing an opponent from standing. It's easier to learn BJJ then judo. period.
Yup judo is goated
Yup. Not to mention (speaking as a brown belt in Judo and a blue belt in BJJ) that Judo has a wayyyyyyyy deeper talent pool than any form of wrestling does. Again, take the Olympics as an example. Only 55 countries send guys to the Olympic Games to compete in Freestyle and Greco Roman wrestling, meanwhile 158 countries participate in sending Judo athletes to compete at the Olympic Games. Meaning, it is literally almost three times as difficult to win an Olympic gold medal in Judo than it is in Freestyle/Greco Roman wrestling. These are straight up FACTS that Wrestlers and even BJJ guys don’t want to talk about. And I’m a former wrestler myself. And even when leg grabs were legal in old school Judo, they didn’t score all that much and rarely scored Ippon because you ran the risk of getting countered with throws and trips. People highly underestimate the balance of a Judoka and they underestimate even more a Judokas understanding of weight distribution. Now if you want to argue that Judoka are weaker or aren’t as effective as a wrestler without a Gi, then that is valid, but to say you can just double leg them easily is ridiculous at best.
@@AusarisTV absolutely 💯 agreed
100% atp he's just dickrindding jiujitsu as if its a cult
You dont need a triangle choke or pin ur attacker when u can throw them headfirst in the hard concrete Judo is badass
It is..but it may also land you in the pen lol
@@daebak7370 any type of violence can land you in the PEN but the only difference nobody will FUCK with you in the Pen when u have the reputation in the art of skull crushing
You better choose wisely which body part to attack with concrete because you could end up sewed or behind bars.
Good luck in court with that
@Erik Budrow if someone attacks a juduka they are asking to be hospitalized we will just have to explain it to the judge
Can’t throw a rock these days without hitting a jj fan or gym. Super trendy Like the new crossfit.
Yes I agree. I find the BJJ guys do a far better job marketing the sport and the clubs are just more fun and have far more of a positive culture. Judo seems to be very traditional in culture and alot more old style and dominated by old timers at least where I am........kids in modern times just wont show up for that type of thing.... Judo is brilliant but the marketing needs a ''glow up''....... make it cool and more modern. I actully think Judo might have suffered a bit in this way from being an Olympic Sport
@@patboland1650 good perspective. being new to Judo, it seems like you understand the markets and demographics.
Please name these made up wrestlers who were dominating Judo tournaments 🤡
ikr dudes clueless
prob cuz US sucks at judo
I don't understand why they want people to think that the rear naked choke (hadaka-jime) and other submissions don't exist in judo nor that judoka don't practice both standing (tachiwaza) and groundfighting (newaza).
They’re delusional trying to make BJJ look as good as possible because they know deep down inside it’s borderline worthless in a street fight
@@realtruth1448it's not even good in a sport that doesn't have specific rules that favor the BJJ guy.
It all came from judo
@@Kwisatz-Chaderach exactly... try doing BJJ against guy fighting dirty, one of the gracies stated if a black belt gets punched in the face he’s now a purple belt, if he gets punched again he’s a brown belt, a third time he’s a white belt, BJJ is overrated extremely from a self defense standpoint, you’re better off with judo or wrestling
@realtruth1448 100% agree completely. Every one would be better with Judo or wrestling (I'm a Judo player..obviously biased 😆)
As a judoka my view is run, if u can't, throw then run. The chances of an untrained person being thrown on concrete and contine fighting is highly unlikely. I know how to fall and be thrown, and we have really good mats, it's sucks. I can't imagine what that would be like on concrete. I've used judo to defend myself and it wasn't a big throw and it was on wet grass, the guy was completely shell shocked.
I was doing judo for more than 15 years, wrestling for 3 years and boxing for 5 years and I was involved with some street fights. The biggest misconception is that in a serious street fight if you are at the ground and the other guy stands then you can't use the standard jiujitsu staff and ground fights. Technically you have lost. In real fights, you have time; you don't need to engage the guy on the ground and fight in their game. Just look for some sticks, rocks, or weapons, call for a friend and let the guy on the ground wait while you harass them on the floor for hours. And that is a fact. If you say otherwise you can just go to a bad neighbourhood, anger the locals and sit on the ground and fight them there. Non of them is going to do bjj with you and fight on the ground. They are going to throw you rocks and bricks and beat you with metal rods from distance, maybe bring a better weapon. They are going to spit on you and laugh at you as long as they want, but they will definitely not let you stand and run away. So you have lost already. For me, fighting on the ground and bjj style is an important but last-resort thing when there are two people fighting and both of you got to the ground somehow.
I literally don’t understand what you are talking about dude 🤔- sure if makes sense to yourself tho .
I like to look at bjj, judo, wrestling, and sambo as just brand names for grappling. The question then becomes which brand name do you want to buy, but you're still just grappling
Facts, and judo takes the cake, BJJ is the crappy offbrand cereal
you could ask them to compare a nuke with jiu jitsu and somehow Jocko and Echo would still end up favoring jiu jitsu
Indeed 🙄
@@serenityinside1 they'd be like as long as ur not in the radius of the detonation point you would be fine and submit w jiujitsu
If the leg ban was because of wrestling guys, greco roman wrestlers would dominate judo. Which is clearly not the case, leg ban was to differenciate judo from wrestling
Personally I like to do more judo takedowns in the Gi and in No gi I use more wrestling style takedowns
Trained both judo and bjj. Mostly Judo. Judo is more intense, mainly because the rules, so you need to act fast. This causes players to be either aggressive in newaza or completely give up and wait for the ref to reset the fight. In a self defense situation, If you learn being aggressive you would hopefully stay minimum time on the ground. And in my mind in self defense situation you don't want to stay on the ground as there can always be that guy that soccer kick you in the head. Which brings up the topic of takedown defense. Here Judo is excellent.
Throwing in judo, most judokas learn how to fall, so they don't stick out any arms when falling making it safe, Someone who doesn't know how to fall usually stick out their arms to protect the head that is when they become injured. If they are drunk, they will not have the reflexes so it is actually safer to fall being drunk.
When training I noticed that bjj players are much better at ground fighting than judokas, there are some judokas that practice exclusively newaza and they can become better than bjj players so it is matter of training and bjj players simply spend more time ground fighting plus they have a larger arsenal of techiques which makes it supreme. Bjj is also much milder on the body, so if you are older you probably will shift over to bjj as judo will wreck you.
Wrestling, I don't think there are any as fit as wrestlers. You can put a wrestler in basically in judo and bjj and he will be hard to beat. They will either out-condition you or out-muscle you most likely both.
So they are all good in their own little way. Pick what ever is most accessible, as that means more hours spent training. And don't get injured.
Not most judokas but every judoka learns how to fall. In fact, how to fall is what we learn first of all
A Judo throw onto concrete could make the ground game irrelevant depending on the landing.
Jocko doesn’t normally talk out of his ass, but he absolutely is in this case.
In Judo if you pick up your opponent whose holding guard/triangle etc for a slam, you reset.
There are chokes and arm locks etc in Judo. The throw also has to be clean. An ippon is a full score which basically means the throw would have incapacitated the person being thrown. A wazari is a half score, meaning the person being thrown would have been hurt but still be able to fight on. Morote gari wasn't banned because of wrestlers, it actually isnt banned at all. It can't be used as a primary attack. Jocko isn't the font of all knowledge just because he was a SEAL. He also frequently fails to mention that the traditional martial art he beat was Aikido!😂
"One guarantee a rear naked choke is a fight ender" ...wonder how you actually get there in the street? Pull guard? Or throw?
How is someone so immersed in martial arts as Jocko not no that there are submissions in judo? Most, if not all, Bjj submissions are from judo.
Judo is not very popular in the United States at all and is poorly understood.
It’s also often trained for competition which leads to a neglect of ne-waza. I’ve heard stories of BJJ guys allegedly tapping US judoka with knee in belly, which would never work at a judo club that spends any amount of time on ne-waza.
I had a guy at my club who was a competitor from another country somewhere in the Middle East. He outweighed me by 60 lbs and would slam me like it was a competition in randori and act like I was going easy on him because he was a green belt and I was a first brown (like weight classes don’t matter).
But my instructor always did at least 50% ne-waza so I thrashed him on the ground for a few months because the competitors don’t train it as much because they don’t need to.
Judo's ground work isn't anywhere near as developed as BJJ's, but honestly for self defence Judo ground work is perfectly sufficient. As long as you have some familiarity with the ground, a rear naked choke and some other submissions, that should be enough.
Randori includes ground... and it's thrown flat on back. Not anything touches mat. Completely wrong.. a pin showing complete dominate. Newaza ground tachiwaza is standing. Bjj you can stall and wait judo you attack non stop.
comparing judo and jiu jitsu, comparing grappling or even martial arts in general is pointless and ignorant, judo has better throws, wrestling has better takedowns, jiu-jitsu has better submissions and sambo has better leglocks and stuff like that ... comparing them and trying to satisfy your own delusional bias and ego by fishing for excuses or flawed ideas or false fallacies that my favorite grappling art (in Jocko's case clearly BJJ) is better because blablabla, that's like comparing rock climbing to wall climbing to building climbing to tree climbing yatayatayatayata ... it serves no real purpose beyond selling biased nonsense to con gullible and ignorant people into joining whatever YOU favor the most ... an example in this video is that Jocko tries to low key put bjj as "superior" to judo by cherrypicking things like "in judo, when you throw someone and/or you pin someone for 20 seconds, you won, it's over, so it takes away an element of fighting" ... but this is a typical bjj biased false fallacy because equally true would be the POV of a judo biased grappler who would claim "in a rel fight, you don't willingly go to the ground anyway and even if they force you on the ground, you need to get up pronto, and that's what judo does, while jiu jitsu people stay on the ground willingly and perform excessive and useless set-ups, steps and techniques that only work in pure bjj tournaments, not even necessarily in grappling tournaments, much less mma or real fights and what good is being a ground game artist if you can't even take your attacker or opponent down anyway, even if you did wanna willingly end up on the ground" ... so Jocko, like many other bjj fanatics such as Joe Rogan, any Gracie ever, Mikey Musumeci and Eddie Bravo and the like have this subtle personality flaw of low key trying to subconsciously manipulate people towards THEIR BIAS ... by lowballing, ignoring or even flat out denying things that don't favor THEIR AGENDA, and equally by highballing or exaggerating or even making up stuff to hype up their own ... this is something you see in BJJ more than any other combat sport or "martial art" and it's really annoying, it's why I don't take jiu jitsu people seriously nor respect them at all
Jocko!! You couldn't have explained it better. As a Judoka, i agree that part of the fighting has been left out in completions due to rules.
The real difference between the average Judoka and your average wrestler is in the conditioning. I never met a wrestler that wasn't in some type of intense conditioning program. Which is great when your in your early 20's. But you don't see to many 40 year olds still wrestling. In Judo you'll see 60-80 year olds still practicing at the dojos in Japan.
But as far as techniques go: The original Judo scoring system was based upon actual combat results from being thrown. The Judo Ippon is based upon having enough speed, power and control to kill or maim your opponent. The reason you can get an Ippon with a hold down is because it gave your friend time to kill your opponent for you. This has been slowly watered down over time due to politics of international sports.
I imagine the same goes for wrestling.
As far as BJJ: I would say more than 90% of the techniques being taught came directly from the original Judo training. And Helio was not the only Brazilian involved in creating BJJ. There were a lot of other Judo trained Brazilians involved what is now BJJ. Helio didn't morf anything. If anything he helped to preserve some very good techniques that would have been lost.
In fact, I am sixty years old and I still practice judo, bat not in Japan but in Spain
where the fuk do you go to learn wrestling if you're out of college/highschool
You win in judo with a throw because we didn’t used to wear matts, guys used to get knocked out regularly.
That's not why they banned leg takedowns
The fight is over when thrown on concrete
Best way to contrast Judo and Wrestling from a takedowns perspective, imagine you have a brick wall in front of you. A wrestler will aim to smash the wall down with a sledgehammer. A Judoka will look to pull the right brick out so the wall collapses in on itself.
Both are effective and both require skill and technique.
I should add I didn't come up with this analogy, I saw it somewhere on the net.
I work as a crisis negotiator and have been in “fights” where I’ve had to grapple with people often in altered states with nothing to lose. I trained Jiu Jitsu for a short time but realized I didn’t need to be an expert on the ground. what I needed was standing grappling and strong proficiency to get people down and pin them so I could detain them. I switched to Judo.
Judo fights from a normal upright posture, gives you comfortability being grabbed and pulled from that posture, the ability to throw or sweep while staying standing, having the skill to control that throw while limiting injury and an ability to disconnect instead of being committed to the ground, if it does go to the ground a basic understanding of pins and submissions.
This methodology is ideal in a live scenario and is how it was used in combat. End the fight with a throw with ground fighting as back up.
Judos ground game is basic often compared to a bjj blue belt, but the truth is in real scenarios the basics are exactly what you use and is absolutely enough for the average person.
You watch any street fight video that includes a slam, or throw, judo or not , that fight is over 99% of the time. Judo is legit and truly a top tier art.
Thats not why they got rid of leg attacks, they got rid of them to differentiate it feom wrestling after wrestling was temporarily taken out of the Olympics.
He should have a conversation with Rhadi Fergusson, Flavio Canto (dont know if he can speak English), Neil Adams, or Jimmy Pedro.
In my opinion Judo is an amazing base grabbling art. It really helps with expending some knowledge if they want to learn wrestling and bjj. Judo is great in self-defense.
Do a podcast with Robert Drysdale
No your not...... Which throw are you talking about?
Will tell you one secret. Most of Judo players can fight on a ground but 99% of BJJ Players including black belt can’t fight in a standing position. That’s the truth 🤙🏻🥋and it’s wasn’t banned because of the wrestlers 🤣. Most of the European and Asian Judoka has a national wrestling background (Georgia. Mongolia) and more. It’s funny how you trying to push down a Judo 🥋.when you talk about JUDO 🥋 please at least don’t bring that nonsense examples 😊.
Old school judo is way better than this flashy sport judo and a lot of judokas don't even really train newaza
Fortunately my gym does because it's a little more focused on self defense than tournaments. I'm definitely grateful for that.
Please name these made up wrestlers who were dominating Judo tournaments 🤡
"The fight goes on after the throw" Sure, in a controlled setting when youre practicing on padded mats. If a Judoka throws you in a self defense situation on concrete, the fight is pretty much over at that point.
Hard to just shrug off a Judo throw when youre not on a padded mat and continue fighting.
Says that 7.35 ?
i wonder how a prime kimura (at the same age he defeated helio) would do against all of helios sons in their sons primes. would kimura submit all of helios sons?
I think Rickson and Rolls and Relson would win
kind of an unfair comparison lol dont u think
Kimura would have demolished them.
Tbh you dont use BJJ in the street you cant lay down in the pavement you will be done in a Minute.
You do realize that BJJ isn't just about playing on bottom right? Maybe old school 1990s BJJ. But nowadays the vast majority of schools are emphasizing top pressure and being on top.
Whilst attackers mates play soccer with your head….
@@vedu8519 these guys never set foot in a bjj gym. they have no idea what they're talking about; all their takes are an amalgamation of youtube comments
He’s clueless.