Rebel Ridge: Yes, police really can take your cash.
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- The film Rebel Ridge came September 6 and shot to #1 on Netflix. It depicts a former Marine’s attempts to get his money back after it was taken by police through civil forfeiture. That story sounded pretty familiar to us at IJ.
We have been working to dismantle civil forfeiture for decades, but unlike the film’s main character, our clients aren’t vigilantes who take the law into their own hands; instead, they fight back in court. So how accurate is Rebel Ridge’s portrayal of civil forfeiture?
To find out, we talk with IJ attorney Kirby Thomas West.
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Stephen Lara’s Video (Nevada Highway Patrol): • Watch Cops Seize Comba...
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Federal Forfeiture Process: endforfeiture....
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End civil asset forfeiture now. End qualified immunity now.
Defund Family Court!
The liberal supreme court justices for years were the majority, and said they oppose police corruption, but never did anything. Now The Supreme Court is even more filled with police apologists, so there's no chance of the federal government changing these soon.
gov will not turn on itself, a house divided against itself cannot stand. they will only mitgate it for the sake of keeping things from getting out of hand.or expose their crimes.
Abso-fricken-lutely!
You’re going to upset the boot lickers..
No matter how well you understand civil asset forfeiture, it is worse than you think.
IT. IS. A. GROSS. CORRUPTION. OF. THE. LAW ENFORCEMENT. AGENCY. INVOLVED. AND. MAKES. EVERYONE. SUSPICIOUS. OF. LAW. INFORCEMENT. IN. GENERAL. ! ! ! AND. HYPOTHETICALLY. , LET. US. SAY. THAT. AN OWNER. OF. A. THRIVING. BUISNESS. IS. PULLED. OVER. FOR. A. TRAFFIC. VIOLATION. AND. THE. OFFICER. CAN. SEE. A. BANK. BAG. ON. THE. SEAT. , AND. EXECUTES. THIS. KIND. OF. LEGALIZED. FORM. OF THEFT , AND THEN. WHAT. , IF. THERE. IS. NO. LEGAL. RECOURSE ! ! ! THEN. WHY. COULDENT HE. OR SHE
USE. IT. AS. A. TAX. RIGHT OFF. ? ? ? AND. IT. COULD. JUST. AS. EASILY. BE AN. ARMORED. CAR. FULL. OF. CASH , AND. NO. LEGAL. RECORSE. TO. RECOVER. THE. STOLEN. MONEY. ARE. VEHICLE. AS. WELL. ? ? ? IS. EVERYONE. SLEEPING. THROUGH. THESE. PROBABILITY S. ? ? ?
It’s legalized theft.
People are not paying attention if they can't recognize who's the real criminals.
True! But what did you expect? 99% of "Americans" are consumed by the mass media's manufacturing of consent owned by just a few Zionist Corporations watching things like "StupidBall" (aka: Football) and Dancing with the Stars!
“A properly functioning democracy depends on an informed electorate.” Thomas Jefferson
Great information and work(s) from the folks at IJ!!!!!
No way man. They're brave heroes. They're sacrificing for our safety to keep us safe. They're just doing their jobs extorting us to keep us safe from the cartels. They violate our civil rights for officer safety, but officer safety is for our safety. They're not badged criminals, they're heroes, protectors and it's our duty to protect and serve them...for our safety. #blue line Safety 1st. 😂
That's the part that bothers me the most. We can win all the cases we want, but if we're still left with public institutions filled with the same people who carried out CAF in the first place, we may as well have done nothing.
In the meantime, absent a real legal solution, I will cheer on any vigilantes who deal with these corrupt thieves in any way they see fit.
Funny thing is, in every single instance I have ever seen, the agent ASKS questions and the person VOLUNTARILY answers them. What the IJ people won't tell you is that an agent must, BY LAW, attempt attachment via an offer to contract. Just tell the agent you are not obligated nor interested in contracting with them at this time but the offer is appreciated. They absolutely will threaten, intimidate, harass, and coerce you using any number of tactics. To every demand or inquiry of theirs you must respond with the same phrase: "I appreciate the offer but I am not obligated nor interested in contracting with you at this time." SIGN NOTHING. They may arrest you. So be it. Don't sign anything during booking or at any time whilst you're in jail. Don't give them any of your personal information and continue to repeat the phrase to the intake officer or any other jailhouse staff.
It’s the police! The police are criminals!
Even worse than the threat of arrest if you don't agree to sign away the rights to your property, is when they threatened to turn your children over to Child Protective Services if you don't sign. There have been several of these cases where police have literally threatened to kidnap the children if they don't willingly give out their cash and maybe even a car. It's sad that some of our law enforcement are more Despicable than a common Criminal.
You sometimes have to lose to win.
some?
you are way to generous....
I thank God every day that I don't have kids!!! Just one more thing the government can use against you
@@janvanruth3485 Yes, sometimes you have to rope-a-dope, suck'em in a little, let'em slip up ,sacrifice a pawn to get a bishop. Yeah. You gotta pick your battles. It's only the last one that counts. When the enemy has overrun your position, you gotta sometimes backpedal. Like checking a good hand to sucker them into betting. And I am not being generous. I'm being greedy. I'm playing to win ALL their chips. It may look like generosity to a young fool, but it isn't. It's so easy. Like taking candy from a baby. You can make a living doing that.
@@jimmygrant424 I know it's hard when loved ones are involved. Evil like to hurt and punish, take things away. The more you love, the more you have to lose. Whenever I was assigned a new security team, I would get the usual question of what do I do if this or that happens. I would tell them, always do the right thing. It's better to be punished for doing something right than to be punished for doing something wrong. And that's about it. You're going to get hurt either way. There are no good outcomes, only good and bad alternatives. It just depnds on what kind of person you are.
The worst kind of criminals are the ones you can't protect yourself from
You can protect yourself, unfortunately they'll send an army to murder you.
"the ones you can't protect yourself from"? Victim much?
@@jabba0975 Why are you the only one out of currently 46 likes not to get it?
I think this is going to change shortly as people are getting tired of tyrants and road pirates with badges.
Yourself? Sounds about right
I was so happy that this film was made and streamed on Netflix. I pray that more people will investigate civil rights and government overreach and power as a result of this film.
We need to fire the Supreme Court and hire a new one with intelligent people instead of political.
Now go watch Jones Plantation
@@jessjmanns I'm already dealing with low-grade depression every waking hour of my life. I'll pass on your suggestion.
@@jessjmanns Looks interesting. Added to my watchlist. Thanks.
@@richarddavis2961 AS LONG. AS. WE. HAVE A. STRONG. ,AND WELL. INFORCED. CONSTITUTION. WE. HAVE. NO. NEED OF A. SUPREAME. COURT ! ! !
This is not what I signed up for to defend my country... This needs to end immediately.
YES. THIS. ISENT. THE. AMERICA. THAT. I. WAS. TOLD. WAS. A. FREE. NATION. , EVERY. ONE. NOW. HAS. VERY. GOOD. REASON. TO. DESTRUST. LAW. INFORCEMENT. WHEN. YOUR
MONEY. VEHICLE. ARE. OTHER. PROPERTY. CAN. BE. TAKEN. FROM. YOU. , WITHOUT. ANY. LEGAL. RECOURSE. , HOW. MUCH. MORE. CORRUPT. CAN. GOVERNMENT. BECOME
BEFORE. THE. PEOPLE. RISE. UP. ! ! !
The former Marine that had like $90K, taken from him in AZ., maybe....not only had to fight the cops from that state, he also had to fight the DEA, because the DEA will get involved, and make it much harder to get the money back...
It was Nevada, and the IJ handled his case and got his money back.
The scam is, that local or state authorities will take assets through forfeiture, then hand them to the DEA, or other Feds because "reasons" then when sued they throw their hands up and pretend they have no responsibility anymore.
Yeah, cops are bad faith actors. With no shame. They claimed that since they gave it to feds, they didn't have it to give back. But money is fungible... any $1 bill replaces any other $1. If you steal $1 from me and give it to your cousin, you are still responsible for giving me $1 in repayment.
To correct Kirby: the cop doesn’t need to actually HAVE suspicion of your property’s illegal nature, but to EXPRESS that suspicion, with no compulsion to provide evidence of that suspicion.
I think Kirby is giving law enforcement way too much credit for honesty.
It's interesting that the assets are being treated as deodands which is a fiction of law going back to the legal common law days except back then the thing being forfeited had to be involved in an accident resulting in the death or grievous injury of a person.
I saw that in a couple spots! 16:50 CAF funds are extremely rarely used for public works. And she should have pointed out that in the rare event they are used for things like "payroll" And "paying interest on debts", stealing from motorists is not the way to go about satisfying these lines on the balance sheet
@@morganmoves1318 Good point. I think the lion's share of the money the town was taking in was from the bail abuse rather than CAF. They could have made that clearer in the movie. And I'd like to get IJ's opinion on the bail abuse aspect.
The crux of it is the legal fiction, where they're allowed to file a civil suit and name the money as a litigant/defendant. Do you know what would happen if I went into court attempting to sue my neighbor's lawn mower? They'd probably civilly commit me.
@@yeekasoose hmm, very interesting, I'd be curious to learn about the bail abuse as well. How could the town possibly get abused on bail 🤔? In any event, speaking strictly "Fact or Fiction", the idea that LEOs target money to confiscate harder than they do guns, even drugs, in the name of community projects or “public works”, I'm gonna have to rate that one at a hard fiction.
see if you can find what that one sheriff said at the congressional hearing, "Well, now, well, actually, now that I think about it there aren't really much checks and balances on that, for the future stuff.. we can pretty much do what we want with it. We use it kinda like a slush fund, any time we want something nice👹👹" 🤣
Not to say some beneficial things have never been done. it's just that in real life, very little forfeiture proceeds go to the public good/ quality of life improvement (in most jurisdictions).
That's just another platitude they toss in to placate those who don't know anything about it.
In the old days, it was the local gangster, or the Mafia that took your money for "protection".
Today the Police do the same job, they need your money to pay the department for your "protection".
I think the main that has changed since the old days is body cam evidence of what is happening.
The mafia has more integrity that todays cops.
The police are just the strongest mafia. They're strong because most of the public have been brainwashed into accepting their "authority" on the pretense that the governed "consent". They don't; most will never be directly asked for consent, and even if only one person was "governed" (taxed) without his consent, it would still be extortion.
What we have, and have had for hundreds of years, is not a government of the legitimate sort, where each individual person gives his consent to be governed explicitly and without duress. Instead, we have a mafia with a good PR department.
A Protection Racket is also called EXTORTION.
@@ryuuguu01 I agree for the most part. The System has always been corrupt, but there weren't cameras everywhere until recent years. Oh, and Big Brother for sure is Watching You, and me too.
True the target of CAF is not the Cartels, they are in partnership with them.
"I will arrest you for a felony unless you give me this money."
Isnt that pandering for bribery?
Threats under color of law.
Just simple out and out coercion, our government is the master at it
No, it's extortion.
@@TheMelnTeam Congratulations. your cookie's in the mail
While watching this movie last week, I pointed out to my wife that the margarita machine thing really happened. I don't think she believed me at first.
Highway Robbery is described as a Highway Robber (usually Armed) stopping you on a roadway or highway, and demanding cash or property from you or he will cause you harm.
Usually when they take you cash and/or property you are free to go on your way.
CAF Sounds like Highway Robbery to me from a Highway Robber
There's a REASON why lots of people refer to the police as "Road Pirates".
Policing for profit
@@jamesnoneyabizness5611 That's a misnomer. Pirates operate at sea and tend to take larger sums at once. While there are some among law enforcement that fit the description, the vast majority are properly classified as "bandits".
It's a shame that Law enforcement is not one of those jobs where "moral turpitude" can get you blocked from the profession.
I'm interested to watch and see how Attorney Shield plays a part in these cases as it gains a wider base.
Certain tactics of the police:
1. A homeowner that is a legal card holding medical cannabis users home is falsely labeled as a drug house?
2. Or, they falsely accuse you of selling drugs through the mail?
3. Set cameras observing your home nearly around the clock to see if there's any other people besides yourself living there? Or, hanging out.
4. Or hire people to throw suspicion on your every move...
This can only happen when criminals are in charge...
I smell, blah blah.
NO. SYMPATHY. FOR. WEED. PUSHERS. LEGAL. OR. NOT. ! ! !
The absurdity of claiming that property is committing a crime should not stand in a rational system. This sounds like the claim of a cartel. We need to end this now, and implement education reform to normalize rationality again.
THIS!
You’ve hit the nail on the head!
The fact that they try to argue that money commits the crime, is asinine, crazy and ridiculous at best!
Whoever takes part in this scam, should be jailed!
Those statutes amount to the taking of property without just compensation, ie, inverse condemnation, and are 5th Amendment violations. Moving under the statute is the last thing that should happen. Just like with taking on the IRS, the mistake is filing an action against them, instead of compelling them to prove their position.
This should be illegal. FULL STOP.
It is, 4th amendment. We have to organize and use the 2nd to stop it.
@@Dan-yk6systop promoting violence.
@@awesomedayz3465 When the judicial branch allows the executive to rob the citizenry, there is little else to expect. It is sadly predictable.
@@awesomedayz3465 go sit in the corner slave
@@awesomedayz3465stop protecting criminals
They will never fix it themselves until there’s a civil lawsuit against them. This is too easy way for them to make money. But enough people come together. We can stop other people from taking advantage of other people
Law enforcement can make up a reason for their suspicion to seize the money. There doesn't have to be any facts on the ground.
A semi-critical distinction lol
Get Attorney Shield having attorney at your fingertips at the side of the road is never a bad thing.
I wonder if and how the SCOTUS malicious prosecution decision will impact civil asset forfeiture and holding police accountable.
SCOTUS openly accepts bribes, you really think they will stop civil forfeiture?
SCOTUS are a bunch of freaking cowards that refused to seriously address this criminal behavior. They will look at a case here in a case there around the periphery, and make a ruling like excessive finds, but absolutely refused to look at the general principle of being able to rob people on the streets.
Lysander Spooner got it right in his book The Constitution of No Authority.
Absolutely. It's appalling how his self-evident perspectives have been deliberately ignored in favor of the Whig "national" conception which enabled Lincoln's tyrannical reign and the escalations since. Notably, even the state constitutions fall prey to Spooner's same criticisms.
On Lincoln, I highly recommend Thomas DiLorenzo's "The Real Lincoln". It will make your blood boil with how many historical facts have been suppressed, omitted, and misrepresented; but evil can only thrive on lies. The truth will kill it.
ADDED TO MY BOOK LIST! THANKS @makylemur7019
One note, the original justification for modern civil asset forfeiture presented to the public was to deprive drug suspects of quality legal representation. It wasn't credibly aimed at disrupting their operations, it was specifically aimed at stripping constitutionally guaranteed rights (with the copout that there is always public representation shielding the move). Customs authorities already had the legal means to confiscate currency crossing borders over a meaningful amount, so it wasn't really about being able to take money they found going to the major wholesalers overseas.
If your money is sued then it needs a lawyer and is innocent till proven guilty. Burden on government to prove it’s guilt
We need to enact laws against police filing frivolous and retaliatory claims. The ceases cash is kept by LE and pays off All the people who sue them and win mega lawsuits.
So is this how local law enforcement makes up for budgeting deficiencies in their respective units with Federal blessing?
Very few departments have legitimate budgeting deficits. The average public expenditure per officer has been steadily rising for decades even accounting for inflation. The problem is that they spend the money wastefully, just like the rest of the bureaucracy.
Yes. In some agencies such as Philly, forfeiture revenue amounted to 20% of their budgets.
if you travel with cash. put it in an envelope put a stamp on it and seal it. send it to your self. if they take they are committing a felony
Just have to worry about USPS .
Good luck arguing that case, too. From a postal employee.
Even the postal service tells people not to send cash through the mail.
That is how I packaged mine, and vacuum sealed.
@@lightofathousand
You don’t send it to be mailed, you self address with stamp in sealed envelope, and carry or store it that way.
It’s yours and you are taking precautions to legally identify it as such…
Question, although I don't really expect an answer. What if one signes "signed under duress, under color of law"? Does that suggest that you were coerced to sign, and it doesn't mean you agree to whatever you are being forced to sign? Does that matter in court later? Or are the nut, with a bolt into which you are about to get screwed? I hope you can do an episode on this, because LEOs do this $#!t all the time. How does she get the 4 years of depreciation of value of the car, which she didn't get to drive. Presumably had to replace to IDK get to work.
That it is LEGAL doesn’t make it constitutional.
When I was in Kyrgyzstan, our taxi was stopped several times, and each time the driver gave the police some cash, and we were allowed to continue. It’s not considered illegal there; it’s just how the police fund their operations
Civil forfeiture needs to be abolished!
Civil forfeiture is an abomination of the law.
It is a per se' violation of law.
@@TheMelnTeam Nonsense. How is carrying cash a violation of the law? What is the line? $1000? $5000? $100?. Please post the law that states carrying cash is illegal.
@@willscottrell6919 You seem to misunderstand me.
I assert that civil forfeiture itself is necessarily a violation of law, not carrying cash. Specifically, forfeiture in its present form violates the 4th, 5th, and 7th amendments at minimum. It is not an "abomination of law", it's objectively breaking the highest law of the land, law our constitution guarantees as self-evident.
It is such a gross violation of the bill of rights that I would acquit any fact pattern where a person violently resisted a civil forfeiture attempt as self-defense. The act of forfeiture is itself armed robbery, not a legitimate act of law enforcement.
@@TheMelnTeam That is utter nonsense.
@@willscottrell6919 No. Being secure against your property stolen is a constitutionally defined, self-evident right. The state committing armed robbery is against the highest law of the land.
Civil forfeiture is state-sanctioned crime. You can't say more than calling it "nonsense" because you don't have an argument that can refute that fact.
11:58 This absolutely happens. It happened to me, the cops said they would arrest me unless I signed
Legalized shakedown. 😡
2006 Saturn Ion.. WTF? Those scumbags really like screwing with people.
In 2020, so a fourteen year old car. Many people driving an older vehicle like that can’t afford to instantly replace that when they need transportation. And taking four years to get it resolved - with a newer vehicle the value lost during those four years can be a significant sum of money.
Can you claim seized assets on your tax return see as it is tax paid?
uncle Sam's a hard no on that one. He said he barely gets paid from the sheriff's slush fund either!
But of course you have to sign a traffic ticket BUT you should refuse to sign this. I am sure that the highway robbers clearly inform the person what that form states and that they are not required to sign it.
We keep putting more and more cops on the street and they need funding so expect for this to get worse and worse. This is going to effect more and more people. My girlfriend wanted to grow weed at my house since it was "legal". What she didn't know was that there are a whole lot of rules in the "legal" part. Not to mention that Federally it is a crime. Any rouge department could seize my house and there would be very little I could do. Obviously, we ain't growing weed at my house. And we are going to have a long talk about weed crossing state lines. I paid $30k for my van and anyone of these highway criminals, I am sure, would love to have it.
This is why I donate $50, monthly, to IJ!
What if you don’t let them rob you at gun point?
This is really shocking!
civil asset forfeiture equals jizya.
Its beyond comprehension that cops can do this for anything they want, I get drug dealers, but not everyone who has money
Law enforcement is nothing but a government sponsored mafia
No, not for drug dealers either. We all deserve due process. That kind of thinking is how we got here in the first place
You should see how they treat people at the airport who have money. It's legal to travel ( within the US) with money but sheesh....
Is there a legislative basis for the concept of civil forfeiture or is it something invented by the courts?
For Innocent Until Proven guilty they sure do a lot of stuff that falls under usc 18 ss 241 & 242.
Actually, good movie
These ladies are good.
What if ur property is in a trust...do they have right to take if its technically not urs but the trust?
Yes, then you have to take them to court to prove that the money belongs to the trust, and where it came from, that it is not involved in any illegality.
This is why we have the 2nd
Thanks for posting.
Everyone should have Attorney Shield or something similar. At any law enforcement interaction, one should have an attny at their "fingertips."
Just learn your rights and relevant laws.Attorney Shield doesn’t do anything except give you advice that anybody can easily learn themselves.
Consider 2nd amendment remedy when criminals steal property under color of law.
Thanks for all your hard work😊
So much for the 4th amendment…
Right. I have a hard time understanding how she says it is legal. If it violates rules explicitly laid out in the highest law of the land then it isn't legal. They might be doing it and getting away with it by passing codes, and state and local laws but it still is not legal. Of course what law means anything without enforcement? And the only way it seems to enforce this will be through we the people.
@@RoyArrowood they are trying to make it illegal but the judicial branch essentially created a terrible precident that property can be accused of a crime alone. Only the legislature can make civil asset forfeiture illegal and they are slow to act and want to appease the police gangs.
What cash? Where is it now and what source did that cash come from while allegedly us women are in denial about what is happening sometimes after we said I do.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, a cop friend arrested a man with a long history of drug dealing arrests. The guy had 300 packages of a opioid drug and $3k in small bills. The judge threw out the case and dropped the charge to simple misdemeanor possession and returned his cash.
So what? If he wants to sell drugs, that's his business. The only reason it's a crime is because he is competition with the pharmaceutical industry.
@@Kitkat-986awful take. You are dumbing down the room. Please keep your comments to yourself.
@@Kitkat-986 The libertarian in me wants to agree with you but my church has a recovery program and I know too many people who are struggling with drugs.
Many of the problems associated with drugs are actually caused by that war against them, and the legal system makes the problems worse. I don't have an answer, but I do know what we are doing now is wrong.
@@RisenGlorfindelit’s not an awful take, big pharma doesn’t like competition, and the government wants their cut too!
Grow up and stop being so naive!
How do you account for the military guarding opium fields in Afghanistan? Google it.
Just because you think it’s an awful take, doesn’t mean it’s not true!
@@RJGa I've seen what drugs do to people, but we're arresting tons of non-violent offenders. When we arrest some junkie, or a kid sharing some pot with his friend then releasing them after a few years in prison, we are turning these people into repeat offenders. The government sucks, and has no incentive to fix the problem. Private communities are better at solving their issues than the federal government is.
The fact that they would negotiate settlement just illustrates the whole fallacy being perpetuated. If there is cause to believe the property is guilty of a crime, it shoud be non negotiable, either it is or it isn’t.
How often the laws are like that... if you just robbed a bank you can keep a portion of the take if you split it with the police... but if you're moving cross country with your hard earned life savings you've got to fight and may not get it back...
@@wrp3621 very good point.
Fact or Fiction? This is eye opening for those who don’t understand what government is actually capable of and practices in reality.
YES. YOU. ARE. TOTALY. CORRECT. , PRAY. AND. KEEP. YOUR. EYE. ON. THE. EASTERN. SKY. , GOD. BLESS. ALL. WHO. BELIEVER. IN. JESUS. CHRIST. ! ! !
Can these stupid movements (THEFT) by the police be stopped (permanently)?!
Only once people accept the fact that police are evil and immoral. In other words, no, that will never happen.
Sure, get the SC to rule they are unconstitutional.
Congress could pass a law to stop it right now but they won't act if citizens aren't pressuring them to do so.
@@Strideo1additionally when a significant portion of those legislators are full on “back the blue”, no change will occur. In fact, it likely will get worse.
Why did you feel the need to put theft in parentheses!?
Are you scared to call it theft?
“Movements” 🤣🤦🏻♂️
Oh brother
The law enforcement entity’s who do this to citizens, are road pirates, criminals and thieves, all under the color of law!
This country is corrupt as fuck!
Legalized corruption...something I would expect south of the border, not in the greatest nation in the world. My $90/mth. hard at work and proud of it. Wish I could afford more.
What they are talking about, civil forfeiture, is a result of that FAILED War on Drugs "The Moral Majority/Religious Right" begged for. Zero Tolerance and Just Say No, is what started it all, while that Reagan Administration was actually behind much of the Cocaine being brought into the US. I am 65, and remember that prior to the 1980s Cocaine was called "The Rich Man's High" for a reason. An American Majority asked for it, and got it!
"the greatest nation in the world"
American exceptionalism is a hell of a drug.
@@RoonMian very well put indeed. I'm going to remember that
At least in some corrupt countries you can budget for police corruption checkpoints.
@@MonkeyJedi99 My thoughts exactly, and live with it.
Forfeiture sounds like being an independent contractor or forced arbitration. People just love stripping your rights away.
I hate when experts on Civil Forfeiture don't talk about its history, because it is that history that drives the legal aspects of Civil Forfeiture, and how it is used to circumvent Constitutional Protections.
Civil Forfeiture dates back centuries and is part of Common Law, and has been used for the entirety of US History, as it predates the establishment of the United States.
Civil Forfeiture is based on the idea that there was obvious criminal activity, where the proceeds of that criminal activity came into possession of the Government, but there was no person to charge with a crime. Civil Forfeiture was the legal process by which the Government took legal possession of the illegal goods. This was supposed to be a protection against the Government just seizing goods it wanted.
Normally, you would see Civil Forfeiture cases in smuggling. If trapped near shore by a ship, the smugglers could abandon the ship, so there are no people to charge with smuggling, but it's obvious that the ship and its cargo were part of smuggling, so Civil Forfeiture would be used to seize the ship and its cargo so they latter could be destroyed or sold, and the former taken into Government control.
This makes legal sense. You can't charge anyone because there is no person to charge.
What police departments are doing now makes no sense, because there are people to charge, but they don't. This is why they have the forms saying you are abandoning the property, though the forms really state that it is not your property, that you don't own it and have no legal claim to it. The police are trying to create the legal fiction that it is the same as an abandoned ship used for smuggling.
A simple fix is that civil forfeiture cannot be used when it is taken from the possession of person, whether that possession is legal or not. If you have a person, you must file charges and only upon conviction can you seize property.
Remember, the median amount seized is $600. Even this video overestimates the amounts seized. Cops are taking $20 from people.
They used to go after the "the bad guys" and bragged about taking cars and money. The problem is CAF is what leads to massive corruption in departments
Ya I had cops trying to take 800$ from me because my friend had 1 gram of marijuana on him.I had the ATM receipt and it took their commander showing up to finally tell them it wasn’t gonna fly and give the money back.
Thanks for the explanation, had no idea. Given the circumstances of the current bad practice implemented, would be an easy loophole to close.
They mostly take people's paychecks they just cashed, gig job workers, poor people who can't fight back when robbed. Sometimes big scores like the veterans life savings, but they like targeting those who can't defend themselves.
IJ has talked about the history behind civil asset forfeiture before so it's not like they don't talk about it but it's actually a lot to get into every time they discuss the matter. They mostly focus on the problem as it is now and how they're pursuing legal remedies.
It all goes back to elected representatives!
The law makers are responsible for fixing the problem!
That "waiver" is terrifying. If you don't sign a ticket, you get arrested. I could imagine a cop conflating the two, in an effort to get you to sign the waiver.
They say it's not an admission of guilt?
Pretty sure you do not have to sign a ticket. Gotta double check that.
@mf-- Depends on the state. In Florida cops can do whatever they want, including arresting you for not signing.
@mf-- some states require it. They shouldn't, because that makes it signing under duress (and you're required to appear regardless) but it's a way to compel compliance and appear more legitimate.
I hate the forfeiture laws. You don't see rich people having to deal with them or even drug cartels because cops usually work with both of these. I work with different law enforcement agencies and the civil forfeiture monies can even be given as bonuses to those cops that bring in the most money. It's at the discretion of the local law enforcement how this money is distributed. So it's pretty disgusting how it's used. Like stated here they can buy alcohol and use it however they want. At the same time and to be fair you also need to be aware that the movie just like IJ is funded through the Koch Network which is Charles and David Koch, also known by the Koch brothers also known as the people who find talk radio, newsmax, oftentimes work with Sinclair and Murdoch to manipulate Americans. They found the Cato Institute in the heritage institute, the fund Trump and the ultra Riot Wing like Ben Shapiro and Dave Rubin and Rush Limbaugh was one of their guys, etc. The purpose of IJ is to counter the ACLU through the money of the Koch brothers and Murdoch and Sinclair and some other Ultra wealthy people. Here's the interesting thing, Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and the Koch brothers have never had to deal with civil forfeiture so I'm not sure why they funded the movie or why they are finding the fight against civil forfeiture because the civil forfeiture laws are mainly used to go after poor people with a lot of cash. I'm glad they are helping. I just want you to know both sides. I think the civil forfeiture laws are BS and they are meant to keep poor people down. The are never used to go after organized crime. Or at least they have into the last 48 years. They are strictly going after working poor who put together enough cash to finally have a down payment for a house or are just getting out of poverty and it seems to be a way to keep them down. I'm just not sure why wealthy people are suddenly involved in this. And don't get me wrong, I'm glad that they're helping against the civil forfeiture laws. I just don't see why.
Rich people can challenge the forfeiture in court with a good lawyer and win. This practice would be exposed more. Best to leave it alone and choose easy victims
Why?
Seems you don't know the history of public law enforcement in the United States, friend.
Public police departments in the United States were created for and exist for ONE reason only: to protect rich citizens property - and, by extention, rich people themselves:
"The first official public police department in the United States was in Boston, MA in 1838, when local merchants convinced the local government to pay for the guards the merchants themselves had been paying to guard their property, under the rubric of the “collective good” of the public."
[Time Magazine:
"How the U.S. Got Its Police Force"
By Olivia B. Waxman
(Originally Published:
MAY 18, 2017 9:00 AM EDT;
Updated: MAY 18, 2017 9:45 AM [ET])]
Also, where on EARTH did you get the idea of ANY rich people being involved in the process of this movie? It was produced by an independent production house, by a non-manstream producer and director, and licensed to Netflix... so where do psychopaths like Koch, Musk and Bezoz (as in Amazon, Bezoz?) et. al. come in? You seem very confused, friend...
@@jamesnoneyabizness5611 you're right regarding the funding of the movie. I also didn't realize that the Koch brothers, Jeff bezos, Elon musk, seem to be involved in the trafficking of some unusual products that are undisclosed and not sighted in their business accounts. I don't know if these are drugs or whatever it is it's just not accounted for in their business. So I wonder if that's why they're fighting the civil forfeiture laws. Somehow they're tied to Outlaw Biker clubs.
This can be fixed by changing one word,... Criminal asset forfeiture,..... No criminal conviction, No forfeiture,....
then theyll just arrest you for interfering with a police investigation, we the peasantry have handed them WAY too much power in exchange for "security"
Timbs kinda gave criminals more rights than noncriminals here. You can plead an excessive fine in criminal asset forfeiture, but not in civil (because if CAF was ever ruled a fine, it would by its nature always be excessive)
I wonder if there's any way that an American can deal with armed robbers, without needing to hire a lawyer???
Wish I could like this comment about a million times.
I can't see the difference between this procedure and armed robbery.
What exactly is stopping cops from just going door to door and saying "Hi! Good afternoon! Could you please hand us all your money? Like now?"
At this point?
Only the existence of the Second Ammendment of Constitution...
Signing under duress
Yep, but courts seem fine with it when it's their system benefiting.
If they asked me to sign that I'd write across it: "Give me back MY money, thieves."
I used to play poker professionally. I would often drive several hours to go to out of state casinos. This was my biggest fear when I was driving home after winning a big tournament. I wasn't afraid of getting robbed by a man in a mask (I mean I was somewhat but I was very cautious and didn't put myself in a position or situation where that could happen), I was really afraid of getting pulled over with out of state plates and getting robbed by a man with a badge. It's happened to more than one person I know personally.
Not an irrational fear at all.
Someone needs to start a mobile attorney app just like U Turn attorney on demand I have U turn for traffic stops I haven’t needed to use it yet.
I think there is one. I see it promoted First Amendment audits @LongIslandAudit called Attorney Shield
You mean like Attorney Shield? Promoted by lack luster, it's like $15 month or less, live on call attorneys anytime you interact with criminal cops. Probably won't stop criminal cops from robbing you, but at least it's recorded and a live lawyer watching.
Ruby Ridge they take your life if you want to be left alone and now thy can do both, can anyone say North Korea
The founding fathers would be spinning in their graves. End Civil Asset Forfeiture, End qualified immunity.
My Ex had a warrent and was arrested while I was with him and the Police took 1,000$ in cash from me that I just got from my Dad for Christmas when I was 19 they pretended it was drug proceeds and I actually tried to get it back but they absolutely wouldn’t give it back to me.
After watching this, I wish both Trump and Harris would answer the question: What is a tyrannical government?
This is a government created constitutional violation. Civil forfaiture isn't supposed to take without adequate compensation of your property. The government should be held completely liable for all fees and interest it takes to recover your money. Then the threat of imprisonment for trying to recover your money should get the officials imprisoned for life. Civil asset forfaiture should be held as a criminal act against American citizens
Making a movie like this is, sadly, more likely to bring about an end to civil asset forfeiture than all of the IJ and ACLU filed cases combined. Telling stories in this manner changes people's behavior as much as it brings awareness to any sort of cause, and anyone watching it is likely to be far more aggressive while interacting with cops committing this act. Which will include financial aggression (courtroom restitution) as well as violence, depending entirely on the individual's impulse control. Those small number of violent acts, met by public indifference, is what will actually motivate the higher courts to end civil asset forfeiture (as it exists today, the maritime original will hold).
True, but the movie would probably not have been made without all the lawsuits being filed and fought in court. I saw the movie on NetFlix on the day it came out and went to YT channels I knew cared about CAF and mentioned the movie. People who watch these channels already know about CAF but the movie is something they can talk about to people they know who are not interested in CAF.
@@ryuuguu01 yeah I didn't mean to sound critical of the advocacy. These people are fighting the good fight, the right way. I definitely mean to sound critical of our overall political system, which ignores the obvious in direct proportion to the financial gain at stake.
@@OnkyoGradyNo problem, I agree with your points.
If you put on the signature "Signed under duress," then your signature....is that a way of showing you were threatened into signing?
Has anyone successfully challenged a signed waiver. A contract signed under duress doesn't have the necessary meeting of the minds to be valid. Nobody in their right mind would sign that if they knew what it meant.
Innocent citizens have no meaningful recourse for a wrongful seizure if challenging a seizure costs more than the value of what was seized.
Our Government is disgusting.
There is more intelligence in this room than all of "The Swamp" put together.
I think they call that the Mafia.
They should drop the civil asset part and call it what it is, cop theft of private property!
In the Land of the Free! Good job to the brave who fought for our Freedoms! WTF
Thank you for sharing this important message.
Its easy for police to take your things; its not easy to get them back
They always have a reason to suspect the money came from crime. They get to keep it!
Civil asset forfeiture AKA theft by cops
and yet they allow dirty cops to hire on with other departments
Maybe IJ should work with Netflix to create movies like this more, so people will learn about this kind of thing.
Most definitely should! I was ecstatic to see the theme break into the mainstream. This was a good follow up video, nice idea IJ! Encore!
Excellent video, thanks!
How about telling us how best to avoid it? Stash your cash in the engine compartment? Keep the withdraw receipt from the bank? Video the withdraw at the bank? Video the Craigslist sale of your dirtbike? etc
Broad ways for everyone to avoid all this:
All forfeited money is immediately taken away from the government agency that took your money.
All forfeited money goes only to pay the citizens who are defending themselves from that same government agency.
Watch the problem go away.
Hey! If it saves one person from an unlawful conviction...
Suggestion, don’t tell anyone you have a lot of cash on you, don’t allow them to search you, and if they should get their hands on it physically grab it back it’s yours not theirs and tell them so.
Thanks, you've convinced many listeners to leave America.... 😉
shhh don't tell them about just compensation....""forfeiture"" seems to forget that for civil processes.. clink cog junk?
People can rationalize anything. Especially, if they benefit. Talk about an abuse of power. Certainly beats going after drug cartels.
The other thing I wonder is why the search of his bag was legal given OHIO, APPELLEE, v. BURROUGHS, established the "single-use container doctrine." In the movie, he explicitly denied permission to search. Anything they found should have been inadmissible?