No, he's not Top 10. He's in the 11-20 crowd but played exceptionally well. People throw the "Top 10" banner around like it doesn't mean anything. Stop doing that.
He beat mango, and plup, and got hella close to beating m2k. He's one of the only players that is putting up numbers vs the top level. Like we count axe as top 10, when's the last time he performed as good as zain has recently? Same for wizzy and sfat. The other top 10 haven't been doing amazing, might as well give it to zain.
Patooo 10/10 What? Spoilers dude. Spiderman, Black Panther, Dr. Strange,Loki, Scarlet Witch, Falcon, and the entire Guardians of the Galaxy(except Rocket) die in Avengers Infinity War.
Well he's already beaten Plup (albeit a while ago), Leffen, and now Mang0. He also brought it to a Game 5 last stock against M2K, losing to his Marth barely while destroying his Sheik. It might be preemptive, but I think he easily has the potential to enter into the Pantheon within a few years, if not less. I have not been so impressed by a Marth since the Ken and M2K eras back in the day. EDIT: He beat Plup again. He's solidified himself as a top 10 player, I don't even think that's debatable at this point.
I think he is easily top 10 after this summit. He placed 3rd, beating Mang0 and Plup. Rarely does a non-top 6 player ever beat these two. I'd say he's Wizzy and Axe level right now, where he can definitely beat a few of the top 6 but not all yet.
This is (toward) the future of the Marth/Falco meta. Mango's Falco was fucking crazy on point. Zain's Marth was fucking crazy on point. This match was amazing.
I stopped watching and playing Melee about a year ago. Today I decided to be nostalgic and watch some summit highlights. It seems everything has remained nearly the same, yet the one major distinction I now see is Zain. This guy looks like he seemingly came out of nowhere to secure a spot in the top 20 at least.
Zain has a really good punish game and is great at evasion. If you run away from marth enough, you run into an unfavorable position because his range is so big and Zain has such good reactions that I didn't really see Mang0 winning unless he found a really good way to make Zain approach unsafely because Falco is so slow and Zain can deal with lazers fairly well in the most important moments. Zain just didn't really get caught out and Mang0 did. They're both really good I don't see the surprise
I SWEAR, if you are watching in order dont look at the comments, they sre full of spoilers!! Hats off to both players, possibly at the top of games they have played.
i think he also got mad balls playing only marth (ex: not switching to fox or something for puff and other floaties that marth can sometimes really struggle to kill)
really surprised on how many times mang0 left the ledge open for zain it just cost him the set which sucks but it is what it is still happy he fucked up hbox and armada lmao
I actually think m2k could do it against axe with Marth (his sheik just feels to standard/lazy n gets rekt by Axe in neutral) but yeah I agree with Toph about him going sheik against aMSa. Marth vs Yoshi feels ridiculously tough.
I've seen m2k Marth vs Axe the few times Jason has played the MU and he does amazing stuff in neutral and is pretty good at edgegjarding Pikachu's recoveries
Why not? It's entertaining. Other people on the couch were hype for Zain. It's called building the narrative, and it's probably Scar's biggest strength as a commentator.
Holden Ruch even if it is his strength, he needs to be unbiased if Melee wants to reach bigger heights. Friends or not, you really shouldn’t be biased at any point when calling a match. I get that it’s summit and it’s one of the more laid back tournaments, but they can’t be doing stuff like this at Evo or any of the bigger tournaments
I REALLY don't get people complaining about commentary. There's Leffen / HBox commentary which is a lot of matchup talk. Good stuff. There's D1 type of commentary which is the hype man. Good stuff. It's just different kinds of commentary. This is summit, it's not a casting desk, it's a couch, it's a little more laid back and has a very "watching smash with friends on a couch" vibe. GOOD STUFF. Just enjoy the fucking games and stop getting so prissy over commentary. Like honestly, do people actually think commentators just shouting exactly what's going on in the game (things which you can use your EYES to see, jfc) is good commentary ? Do you really need someone to tell you that Falco just did a shine bair or that Mango is making a comeback ? Or if you actually think that's good commentary (lord help you), why don't you get off your computer chair, and be someone in the scene to commentate it yourself. lmao in the end it's just a bunch of whiners.
Man this set made me pretty mad about Marth, seemingly more gimps than real stocks Zain with like 80% ledge guarding and Mango with 20% but it seemed like it was mostly just the matchup. If either character is off stage, falco could die.
falco doesn't get the benefit of "1 hit you're dead" on anyone. just find it unfair and not spoken about enough how marth and also puff are just 1 hit and you're dead. worse than wobbling.
Falco has the benefit of "1 hit and you're dead" on fox and captain falcon, because all he need is one opening to effectively kill them. The main reason is because they are fast-fallers, which effectively means that every character in melee has the chance of comboing them from 0% to death. Falco, although having an overall good recovery, can be easily gimped once he's off stage. You're also forgetting characthers like Sheik, C. Falcon, Peach and also Pikachu who can all end Falcos stock off 1 hit the same way Marth and Puff can. It's not worse than wobbling, because recovery mix ups and good DI can save you after the grab. Falco is an extremely good offensive characther, it's obvious that he needs to be balanced in some aspects.
It's not a free edgeguard. Marth needs a hard read on your jump timing to gimp you. Seeing as Marth's dtilt is only active for a couple frames, it's clearly better than a 50/50 for the space animal. Furthermore, unlike Fox/Falco, Marth can severely struggle to kill if he doesn't get those edeguards. Additionally, Marth needs to grab you by the ledge for such a thing to occur. Would you prefer to be chaingrabbed at center stage by Zain, who has one of the best punish games in Melee Marth history? If you're here to whine about characters with unfair kill potential, Marth and Puff aren't even contenders for the crown. Fox is more deserving of your complaints.
Zain has some really nasty punishes, especially with his pivots, but goddamn is his neutral and overall play lame. Maybe that's just me and my distaste for Marth, but I really doubt that.
Marth's neutral vs space animals exists solely to land grabs and setup for punishes. I don't see what's lame about Zains particular style? His dash dance and baits are really solid imo.
Chindler Bong Ice Climbers' neutral vs space animals exists solely to land grabs and setup for a wobble. I don't see what's lame about their particular style? See what I did there? Marth's punish is obviously harder and more intricate, but equally lame.
The beginning of a great rivalry
Chillin was a welcome presence this Summit for sure
19:15 Lol Tafo comes over super ready to drop Tafo stats.. and Scar just has him grab is bag... xD
Aww, Tafo seemed so excited too lol
beats armada and hbox, loses to zain. thats the mango.
Ntense Nah, Zain is honestly top 10 imo. Not that big of a surprise
No, he's not Top 10. He's in the 11-20 crowd but played exceptionally well. People throw the "Top 10" banner around like it doesn't mean anything. Stop doing that.
I'm trying to remember the last time a "top 10" player outside of the top 6 made it into Summit's top 3, but I'm struggling here.
He beat mango, and plup, and got hella close to beating m2k. He's one of the only players that is putting up numbers vs the top level. Like we count axe as top 10, when's the last time he performed as good as zain has recently? Same for wizzy and sfat. The other top 10 haven't been doing amazing, might as well give it to zain.
Well, give Axe a break, at least. He plays nothing but shit matchups with his precious mid tier. In terms of skill, Axe is god level.
Looking back on 2018 Melee in 2020 is surreal
As a mango fan, as much as it pains me to say it, hats off to zain he played great!
I agree SCB :D
Thank you for not being salty !!
he plays like a puss
How so?
jetman879 pppppooppppppppppppppppp
19:00 "Today is a big day for Marth"
*Zain proceeds to beat Plup*
*M2K beats Leffen and Armada and wins Summit*
Definetely a great day for Marth
Patooo 10/10 What? Spoilers dude. Spiderman, Black Panther, Dr. Strange,Loki, Scarlet Witch, Falcon, and the entire Guardians of the Galaxy(except Rocket) die in Avengers Infinity War.
Klondike Legitski damn nigga
Saturday was the day of the bird. Sunday belongs to the king of kings.
Klondike Legitski you forget Vision
Anna dies in Anna Karenina
Can we just take a moment to acknowledge just how many lasers Zain powershielded
3:56
Aaron Hicks homeeeeeeey ya da best
Zain is everything PPU was supposed to be
Damn, well at least PPU is the best doubles Marth
They don't play anywhere near the same
Bro I was legit just thinking the same thing lmao
Wtf is happening at this summit
Aaron Hicks I
Zain is the 8th god,
Jarl Ulfric No he isn't
This was the best set of the tournament.
Can we consider Zain top 10 at this point? He's taking out big names left and right like it's nothing, wtf.
Well he's already beaten Plup (albeit a while ago), Leffen, and now Mang0. He also brought it to a Game 5 last stock against M2K, losing to his Marth barely while destroying his Sheik. It might be preemptive, but I think he easily has the potential to enter into the Pantheon within a few years, if not less. I have not been so impressed by a Marth since the Ken and M2K eras back in the day.
EDIT: He beat Plup again. He's solidified himself as a top 10 player, I don't even think that's debatable at this point.
Jonathan Lin Hbox, armada, plup, mango, leffen, m2k, wizzy, axe, sfat, amsa is the top 10. Zain needs more results to catch these players
I think he is easily top 10 after this summit. He placed 3rd, beating Mang0 and Plup. Rarely does a non-top 6 player ever beat these two. I'd say he's Wizzy and Axe level right now, where he can definitely beat a few of the top 6 but not all yet.
Jonathan Lin his performance is definitely top 10 but we need consistency throughout the year
i wouldnt say like its nothing
It completely destroys my heart to see Mango lose like that.
What a great set. Props for both putting on a great show.
This is (toward) the future of the Marth/Falco meta. Mango's Falco was fucking crazy on point. Zain's Marth was fucking crazy on point. This match was amazing.
I stopped watching and playing Melee about a year ago. Today I decided to be nostalgic and watch some summit highlights. It seems everything has remained nearly the same, yet the one major distinction I now see is Zain. This guy looks like he seemingly came out of nowhere to secure a spot in the top 20 at least.
He played inZAINley well! Such a surprise every time watching how well he does.
Wow, at the end of that fourth game in the set, Mango went crazy to pull it out of the fire. But then in the last game.. Zain.. man
Game start 3:54
"I'm dumb" - Bobby Scar
here for my history class
Zain has a really good punish game and is great at evasion. If you run away from marth enough, you run into an unfavorable position because his range is so big and Zain has such good reactions that I didn't really see Mang0 winning unless he found a really good way to make Zain approach unsafely because Falco is so slow and Zain can deal with lazers fairly well in the most important moments. Zain just didn't really get caught out and Mang0 did. They're both really good I don't see the surprise
One of the coolest Marth Falco sets ever
Mango game 3 on his last stock was absolutely nuts. Zain’s crazy tho.
I SWEAR, if you are watching in order dont look at the comments, they sre full of spoilers!!
Hats off to both players, possibly at the top of games they have played.
6:11 that shield pressure is insane. Those lasers between shines... wow
The way Zain plays makes the game look easy. Visibly less technical than the gods, but takes advantage of Marth's abilities so well.
i think he also got mad balls playing only marth (ex: not switching to fox or something for puff and other floaties that marth can sometimes really struggle to kill)
Which set did the crowd "ay" for M2k rocking in his chair?
Lloyd Irving Genesis 5 Doubles, I think.
really surprised on how many times mang0 left the ledge open for zain
it just cost him the set which sucks but it is what it is
still happy he fucked up hbox and armada lmao
Damn this summit is so great like damn
sick set. also chillin is hilarious lol
Zain is inzain
Game 4 one of my fav mango moments
zain best dashdance in the world?
Everyone really used to say mango had the edge in this
Why did they close the shop so early, I didn't get to catch the tourney live now I can't buy anything.
Great match
I'm calling this tournament ROM 8 (Revival of Marth)
WHY DOESNT MANGO SD DAIR LAST STOCK SERIOUSLY
Why does Mango never Marth Killer near ledge. ;-;
Was gonna say something like that, him keeping ledge open practically cost him the set
I just realized no one has their shoes on lmao
Incredible Marth
Exciting match to watch but needs better commentary.
Welcome the new gods everyone!
Dam GG's you had it mango missed a couple kills off the top and some edgeguards but you'll get em
18:30 Did I hear link’s voice
The pro-mango slant in the casting is utterly insane. Goddamn Melee needs some professional casters badly.
I actually think m2k could do it against axe with Marth (his sheik just feels to standard/lazy n gets rekt by Axe in neutral) but yeah I agree with Toph about him going sheik against aMSa. Marth vs Yoshi feels ridiculously tough.
I've seen m2k Marth vs Axe the few times Jason has played the MU and he does amazing stuff in neutral and is pretty good at edgegjarding Pikachu's recoveries
Scar is so biased towards Mango. It’s not even funny
It's like they're good friends or something 🤔
You’re saying you wouldn’t be rooting for one of your best friends? Lol ok guy get some friends then make a comment like that.
No, I wouldn't be rooting for a friend if I was commentating. There really shouldn't be any bias in commentating.
Why not? It's entertaining. Other people on the couch were hype for Zain. It's called building the narrative, and it's probably Scar's biggest strength as a commentator.
Holden Ruch even if it is his strength, he needs to be unbiased if Melee wants to reach bigger heights. Friends or not, you really shouldn’t be biased at any point when calling a match. I get that it’s summit and it’s one of the more laid back tournaments, but they can’t be doing stuff like this at Evo or any of the bigger tournaments
And now zain #1
I for one liked the commentary. Then again I'm a Mango fan.
Scars mannerism reminds me of Michael Scott for some reason
mango fan. but zain played great
We should have a 2nd Smash Bros documentary with a second set of Melee gods such as Zain, Armada, HungryBox, etc. Also a Documentary for Smash 4.
BODIED
I REALLY don't get people complaining about commentary. There's Leffen / HBox commentary which is a lot of matchup talk. Good stuff. There's D1 type of commentary which is the hype man. Good stuff. It's just different kinds of commentary. This is summit, it's not a casting desk, it's a couch, it's a little more laid back and has a very "watching smash with friends on a couch" vibe. GOOD STUFF. Just enjoy the fucking games and stop getting so prissy over commentary.
Like honestly, do people actually think commentators just shouting exactly what's going on in the game (things which you can use your EYES to see, jfc) is good commentary ? Do you really need someone to tell you that Falco just did a shine bair or that Mango is making a comeback ?
Or if you actually think that's good commentary (lord help you), why don't you get off your computer chair, and be someone in the scene to commentate it yourself. lmao in the end it's just a bunch of whiners.
Btw, Zain is nuuuuutz
INZAIN IN THE MEMBRANE !!!!!
People's Champ cosplaying as Rivers Cuomo I see.
get washed boy
Lol mango got destroyed but the fanboys on the mic won't admit it
ZAINS WORLD PARTY TIME EXCELLENT
The hell is this commentary? People lose stocks and they don't even react to it? Stop talking about your playstyle and focus on the match, jeez.
Man this set made me pretty mad about Marth, seemingly more gimps than real stocks
Zain with like 80% ledge guarding and Mango with 20% but it seemed like it was mostly just the matchup. If either character is off stage, falco could die.
Who was the cute girl in the background during the pre match analysis
Damn, falco's recovery is ok... But his upair and f smash SHOULD kill earlier.
love how marth gets free kills by doing one back throw off the ledge at 0 percent.
Better not come in with unsafe D-airs on shield at the ledge then
falco doesn't get the benefit of "1 hit you're dead" on anyone. just find it unfair and not spoken about enough how marth and also puff are just 1 hit and you're dead. worse than wobbling.
Falco has the benefit of "1 hit and you're dead" on fox and captain falcon, because all he need is one opening to effectively kill them. The main reason is because they are fast-fallers, which effectively means that every character in melee has the chance of comboing them from 0% to death.
Falco, although having an overall good recovery, can be easily gimped once he's off stage. You're also forgetting characthers like Sheik, C. Falcon, Peach and also Pikachu who can all end Falcos stock off 1 hit the same way Marth and Puff can.
It's not worse than wobbling, because recovery mix ups and good DI can save you after the grab. Falco is an extremely good offensive characther, it's obvious that he needs to be balanced in some aspects.
It's not a free edgeguard. Marth needs a hard read on your jump timing to gimp you. Seeing as Marth's dtilt is only active for a couple frames, it's clearly better than a 50/50 for the space animal. Furthermore, unlike Fox/Falco, Marth can severely struggle to kill if he doesn't get those edeguards. Additionally, Marth needs to grab you by the ledge for such a thing to occur. Would you prefer to be chaingrabbed at center stage by Zain, who has one of the best punish games in Melee Marth history?
If you're here to whine about characters with unfair kill potential, Marth and Puff aren't even contenders for the crown. Fox is more deserving of your complaints.
As a mang0 fan I gotta break it to you, Zain was playing too perfect for mang0 to catch up
I said gawt dayum
Although he’s good, Zain plays so stale.
someone should do a compilation of every dashdance back grab in this set
Disgusting biased commentary.
Fire scar, he's terrible
Mannnn falco sucksssssss
Zain has some really nasty punishes, especially with his pivots, but goddamn is his neutral and overall play lame. Maybe that's just me and my distaste for Marth, but I really doubt that.
Marth's neutral vs space animals exists solely to land grabs and setup for punishes. I don't see what's lame about Zains particular style? His dash dance and baits are really solid imo.
Kyle McGuiggan you got a Marth problem my dude. PPMD was one of the best at what Zain does today, and people loved him.
Chindler Bong Ice Climbers' neutral vs space animals exists solely to land grabs and setup for a wobble. I don't see what's lame about their particular style?
See what I did there? Marth's punish is obviously harder and more intricate, but equally lame.
Kyle McGuiggan That’s not really a good example because a lot of people hate ice climbers for that reason and people do see them as “lame”
ZAINS MOVEMENT IS BEAUTIFUL