Vancouver's Next Streetcar Network
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- Опубликовано: 3 мар 2024
- Taking a look at the plan for a 12km Streetcar network in downtown Vancouver - False Creek Area.
Filmed early 2024
2005 Study:
council.vancouver.ca/20061005...
2018 Study - Has all maps at end:
vancouver.ca/files/cov/2019-4...
Streetcar & the Arbutus Greenway study:
vancouver.ca/files/cov/arbutu...
Vancouver Transport 2040:
vancouver.ca/files/cov/transp...
Do you work on a cool project? Can I film it? Drop me a line!
It's so refreshing to watch videos that don't use stock footage. I really respect the extra effort that needs to be put in for you to film your own footage.
Then pay him some FUCKING money then!
Nope. It's all AI generated though unfortunately...
I kid, I kid.
Also, crazy that transit needs to prove "cost recovery" to be viable, but nobody demands the same thing of roads
Can you point to a road infrastructure project of concern?
The argument is that roads pay for themselves by encouraging development and business along them. Public transit mainly needs to prove that there is enough demand to both pay for the ongoing maintenance as well as the original construction, and is usually built in areas that are already densely populated. If public transit projects were baked into designs of communities, we'd see a lot less of the costing analyses that are otherwise ubiquitous. Cost is only a concern when transit is an afterthought 😁
@@JamesBrown059*motions broadly at all roads*
One day every single road expansion will see a cost/benefits analysis before construction to determine if the additional cost provides any real net benefit.
No one want to shoulder the burden for an unprofitable transit line. Roads meanwhile are straight up necessary.
Furthermore, roads being unprofitable is more of a NA thing. Roads in Japan, Korea, China, etc. generates huge amount of revenue. They are even on the stock exchange.
I really think this project would revolutionize mobility in Vancouver, I can't describe how badly I want this to be built.
for the rich, maybe
Phenomenal video! The foresight of Vancouver planners to keep the ROW for streetcars will save billions, both on purchasing land and potential tunneling or raised tracks (as done for skytrain), while also minimizing disruptions to the traffic network. Many other North American cities could take lessons from this!
Take look ad other model cities
I was a motorman on the Downtown Historic Railway and drove the Olympic Line Streetcar. Wonderful memories from both. I was disappointed that both ended.
That must have been a fun job! I have many fond memories as a teenager riding the historic streetcar down to Granville Island.
@@StainerTheFirst We were all Volunteers on the Downtown Historic Railway and yes it was a fun job.
Great detailed look - didn't realise that Vancouver had such an involved history with streetcars (at least planning them)! Love the footage too :)
As always, a very well made video. Informative and the drone footage adds to it considerably.
Phenomenal video! The local footage you gathered really brings this all to life. Thank you so much.
I support desperately needed skytrain projects over streetcars (such as in Surrey), but ideally we could get both.
The problem is Ottawa - all the federal money goes to Toronto, which is in the process of blowing ~$20 billion on a single subway. The Ontario Line alone could pay for the entire Transport 2050 Plan.
Absolutely - I don't want unnecessary transfer on commuter routes or needing the public transit to compete with cars. I'm all for street cars if we're pedestrianizing those streets but if it'll be running among traffic it'll be only slightly better than a bus.
I agree but skytrains are so cost prohibitive its crazy.
@@pumpkin1escobarWorth every penny though, whereas North American streetcars sit empty and/or need another billion-dollar upgrade after the first six months.
ONE Subway? Jeez. I'm more of a Quiznos guy... This better be a phenomenal Subway.
The biggest advantage of streetcars over busses, imo, is the increased number of doors and multi door boarding and exiting. No more getting stuck at the back of the bus because there's a door at the back of the bus.
I wouldn't say that's the biggest advantage but it certainly is a HUGE advantage. The biggest advantage of streetcars over buses is that you know they exist and where they are going. Rails provide a huge advantage of the idea of moving people. Buses are much more flexible but since they engage with traffic, are not as reliable as streetcars which even if inline with traffic can have priority built in mitigating that concern.
those airborne shots are so good at pulling parts of the city together and showing how close everything really is
I’ve driven under that Laurel street land bridge a million times but never knew what it was, wow!
Walk over it some time from 7th and Laurel and come down into Charleson Park. One of the most pleasant little surprises you'll find in this city. I'm lucky enough to live in the area and south false creek is really an oasis in the heart of the city.
you're not alone LMAO
What an amazing video! I hope this happens one day. Amazing research and quality video as usual Stainer
Dude this is AMAZING! I can't imagine the effort you go through to make these informative videos and I love seeing local content like yours
Fantastic video! Something I've always found interesting about the proposed alignment is that right where the boulevard along W 1st ends, a conveniently wide greenway opens between 1st and Science World, skipping the congestion of the intersection at Quebec St. It seems designed for the streetcar but in those maps it isn't included, strange. I'm still holding out hope that this project, alongside the Arbutus LRT, ends up being built someday!
I know what you mean, I was standing there looking at it thinking the same thing. Ended up checking the technical drawings to just make sure I wasn't losing my mind.
Don't get _too_ excited though, that ROW disappears at Quebec... and the last time I talked to City reps at an open house, they wanted the trains to run down the middle of Quebec in mixed traffic.
@@HowlingWolf518 I swear I’ve seen renders of the streetcar with it running in what is now just a parking lot near science world
@@TheGreaterDiscussions Think I've seen that one too. Still, there's a more than even chance that it ends up being park or pedestrian space, especially with the seawall deck being planned for demolition.
If you're thinking of the place I think you are, that alignment is set aside for the development of East Park. Considering timelines (current active development vs long term plan) I doubt that it will end up with a streetcar
Streetcars are amazing. I think they fill a really important gap between busses and trains.
They are death traps to people and Taxpayers paid for the roads, we want to use them with out trams screwing up the traffic even more.
Beautiful video, and on a topic I didn't know was relevant to the region. Thanks for sharing, makes me excited for the future.
Extremely underrated youtube channel
Yooooo just found your channel. These videos are sick. Keep up the great work
If it gets build, it will be cool. Glad you did this video, main news channels fail at this type of reporting.
Hell yeah! Kudos to the Vancouver planners who've apparently been working towards this for decades! 😲
Very glad to have you cover our region!
Superb content. Thank you!
You really need a 5-module streetcar (like in Toronto) to really gain any significant advantage over an articulated trolley bus. A 3-module vehicle (like most streetcars in North America) barely has more capacity. That’s not to say there aren’t other advantages to a streetcar, but the main one is the ability to have longer vehicles while safely navigating the sharp corners of city streets. And you can’t easily upgrade to longer vehicles later. The station platforms and maintenance facility need to be built to accommodate longer trains.
Exactly! The report does suggest platforms would be 35m long with trains to match. However I didn't get into the specifics since it's too far out to call. But after the lived experience of building the Canada line platforms too short, I suspect the streetcar will be built properly the first time.
@@StainerTheFirstI can imagine expanding above-ground platforms with minimal disruption, but I couldn't understand how they intended to do that to the Canada Line stations. It was kind of insane.
Capacity isn't really a problem for the route. In fact, given the present commuting patterns, the problem'd be _attracting_ riders with express bus speeds and 5-minute frequencies... but neither one is on the table at the present time.
Yep came in here to say let’s not make the canada line mistake again!
Living in Toronto now which is huge on the streetcar system in the downtown core.
I move here from Vancouver back in 2008 and know that this makes total sense for all Vancouverites!
I did a geography project back in 1983 on transit and in this I utilized the Arbutus Corridor for light rail. I got an A!
Thank you for creating such a detailed analysis of streetcar options in Vancouver. I live in South Surrey and would love to see a decent streetcar network here. I agree that a Skytrain down King George would be ideal. Currently, you have to own a car to live in Surrey and that isn’t sustainable. Thanks for creating such informative videos.
It's not a zero sum game. We can build both. I think the region needs to get out of a single entity approach and allow the regional transit authority (Translink) to fund large and/or regional priorities - SkyTrain, and allow individual municipalities to raise additional funds (if they so chose, such as temp sales tax) to build final mile solutions without having to get 29 other municipalities/entities to approve. Not only could Vancouver benefit from the 3 lines that we went over, but the Hastings corridor could benefit, as could the King Edward E-W corridor. And totally could see streetcar lines benefitting SOF areas branching off from SkyTrain, not to mention a Streetcar line running UBC (still building underground SkyTrain), and areas of the North Shore. We need to think of transit in terms of modes, implementation of simpler solotions like Streetcar could just be relegated to the cities/entities themselves while not interfering with the larger, regional solutions (SkyTrain) that must depend on provincial and federal (in addition to regional) funding sources.
I imagine a SkyTrain to south Surrey... All the way to white rock, would bring so much growth to the area. Even to Brookswood which is set for development soon. That whole area and white rock has so much potential. Close to the ocean n all.
Excellent summary - thanks!
Love your videos man! This was great!
Really informative and well thought out video. Thanks :)
Yes! Finally, catching up in the people transportation area. It is already proven to be efficient, effective, and, when properly scheduled, profitable and well used.
Great content! I’ve been wondering what’s happened on the idea of a streetcar, and now I know it’s budget issues. Thank you.
Cool vid, lived downtown vancouver for the last decade and was hardly aware of any of this. Nice to see a ton of non-stock footage too.
Great work!
as someone from brussels, seeing the trams I take everyday in a video about Vancouver was a trip haha, such a good video !
Great video, love the footage! I've lived in Vancouver for 13 years and never understood what that station by Granville Island was for. Would love to hear about future updates on this project.
Fantastic video!
What an incredible video! Amazing work! Instant sub here
This is fascinating and so exciting.
Somewhat forgotten, although it received press coverage at the time, was the 1971 proposal for a streetcar on Nelson St. If you can get your hands on "Immediate Improvements to Public Transportation in Greater Vancouver", prepared for the GVRD, there are details in there. The idea was to convert Nelson into a grassy linear park with the streetcar serving the centre of the West End. The idea was based on New Orleans which never totally eliminated streetcars; their tracks are largely embedded in grass (as are several other cities' worldwide.) Between Burrard and Granville it would run in the street, then run along the not-yet-built Granville Mall to the waterfront. The city nixed the idea on several grounds - their vision of Granville Mall was one of less transit, more pedestrians, they weren't keen on closing Nelson Street although at the time the pavement was so badly degraded you could hardly drive down it, and it was just too novel to consider (as the urban streetcar revival in North America was still a couple of decades away). I was part of the fairly small project team that prepared the GVRD report and was sorry to see it not implemented. However, many of the other ideas that were totally novel at the time did get implemented, including what became SeaBus, the great expansion of the bus network into many areas not previously served, the development of transit exchanges as an activity centre and not just a bus loop (think: Metrotown, Bridgeport, Lonsdale Quay) and the retention and expansion of the trolleybus network, still Canada's largest electric bus system.
Thank goodness the trolley bus system has been kept - still environmentally the best bus technology available. And they add local flavour.
I always appreciate your insight into theses projects! I'll see what I can do about getting my hands on a copy of that study. It's hard finding the older stuff online, mostly because first I need to know that it actually exists haha. A route going up Nelson would have been fantastic! I did find a map from the 2002 "Review of Vancouver street project" showing a full line up Davie, but nothing about Nelson anymore.
Thank you for your work. I'm very grateful for all of it, but especially the SeaBus and development of transit exchanges as an activity centre. I remember discussing the latter idea with a fellow advocate in the 90s, and he seemed to shoot it down.
I love how casually the pp was put in 5:20 (it would’ve been funnier if it was exactly 1 minute earlier)
I live in this area and I had no idea that this was one of the plans. This is so cool, I really hope they end up doing this. I'd seen some tentative ideas of maps going through downtown and the idea for the skytrain that goes around to the North Shore.
Idk, the more transit and (PROPER) bike lanes we have, the better tbh.
Great work on this
Great video, I would love to see this come to fruition ASAP. Hopefully Richmond can do likewise on their former inter-urban right-of-way all the way to Steveston.
The background audio in your videos are fantastic.
Thanks! It's a lot of fun getting it to sound right :)
This is amazing content. Can I buy you a coffee? Thanks so much for putting these detailed videos together
awesome video! i hope the city is funding this channel for the quality of public info this is providing 😅
Thanks! They're not yet, but maybe someday!
Great video. Just found your channel. Subscribed! 👆
Thanks very much for this video. I live in South False Creek and I'm very interested to see how the area is developed. I believe the first site to be developed in South False Creek will be the parking lot at Olympic Village Station, which is obviously low hanging fruit. There are great opportunities for improving walking connections into Moberly Rd and Leg and Boot Square. The road network is designed to prevent rat-running and to calm traffic, which I love, but the old rail line and the Cambie bridge create barriers to accessibility. I'd like to see a non-vehicular, accessible path across the rail line from the bottom of Ash street to connect to Commodore Rd.
Great video man!! Would love more videos on potential future transit projects stuck in the planning phase in and around the lower mainland 🫡 would also be super curious what your thoughts on the upcoming TransLink BRT system are...
Glad you like it! I've got another video planned for the summer that will look at some other future routes that are likely to happen in the nearish future. Also can't wait to hear more about the BRT! If done right it should be a very reasonable middle ground between regular bus service and LRT/Skytrain.
Somehow this is the first time I’m ever hearing of this Olympic line
The Olympic Line was a lot of fun to ride. It was definitely too short to make sense as a permanent line but it did show us how good streetcars were in the area
It was a great time back in 2010
A streetcar in Vancouver would be gorgeous!
We had street cars all over when I
was a young child. They were great and well run.
Having a dedicated lane is right.
Need it for metro areas too. The rails are there and I would use it.🎉🎉🎉🎉
Do the Marpole to New West plan next!
Unfortunately there's not a ton of documentation available for it at this time. I'll keep an eye on it and do something when more information becomes available!
You made a very good video.
Thanks!
Great and informative video, do you know if the streetcar line at the Senakw apartments will run immediately after the apartments are built, or is it just being built for the hopes of a streetcar line in the future?
Fantastic
Great video! I live very close to the Olympic Village skytrain station and I've always been curious why they shut the streetcar down that was in use during the 2010 Olympics.
I'm not sure if you're only focusing on transportation infrastructure, but your investigative eye may provide some insight into why certain COV projects are stalled: for example, the expansion and upgrading of track & field facilities at Strathcona Park. Or, the Parkour park under the north-end of the Cambie Bridge (Cooper Park).
Vancouver actually played it smart by reserving and slowly extending the retiveway for an unbuild street car
I hope the lower main land transit keeps improving and grows
Appreciate your videos! I have notifications turned on but I am not getting any when you upload
Glad you liked it! I think I may have set the notification trigger wrong for this upload, my bad :)
Please make a video on the proposed Gold and Purple Alignment replacing the R5 rapid bus.
I will once more info comes out, but it will be a few years. I do have a video in mind for later this year that will include a good amount about it.
I would also say - it’s good for orientation ! Have you ever tried to follow a bus line ? Follow a tram - follow the rails…
when i first moved to vancouver (2000), i mapped out every trolley wire. it was cool to see all the vestigial lines, intersections, how each one splits off, old/new style/hardware. it was interesting from a technical, mechanical, and logistic perspective :) that was around when the "new" trollies were in conception i think, so i was very excited about them. sorry was nerding out there for a minute 😂
@@tegirvaru
In every city in Europe I visit I observe the space between the first and the second floor of the facades to see if I can spot some wall-anchors of an ancient overhead wire…
Isn’t it nerdy too ?
Thanks for this video! We should do all of this. Also, its totally okay to take even more space away from cars.
One other advantage of street cars is changing people's perception of road use. For example, in Portland, cars on the street car lines know they are on the street car lines, and seem uncomfortable with this... or at least respect it. They tend to prefer other routes, and drive more conscientiously while on these streets, which opens the doors to bikes using these roads safely. Streetcars are much more predictable than busses too. As a pedestrian or cyclist, you know from outside exactly where they will be and and much more effectively gauge their acceleration and velocity than you can with busses so just in general, they are safer to be around.
There is nothing but space downtown IMO. There is a crazy amount of car throughput, especially with the route through Stanley park. There are also opportunities for streetcars running from downtown eastward ( I believe Francis previously had a streetcar even although it is probably not the best choice anymore).
Wide median is perfect for an elevated skytrain line
Amazing video! Incredible footage, what you're doing is truly unique.
Do you know if there were/are any plans to expand the Canada line through the rest of Richmond? Capacity expansions? Surely it's something that was discussed amongst Translink at some point
Hey! I haven't really looked too much into it yet. I know there's talk about expanding the stations at some point, but I haven't seen anything yet about extending the lines. Other than the suggestion of it maybe running to North Vancouver, but that wasn't very concrete.
The crazy thing is, there used to be streetcars that ran all the way out to Aldergrove and the then provincial crown corporation transit service by BC HYDRO closed it all down. Southwest Corner of Hastings and Carall is the downtown centre for the streetcars. Columbia and 8th in New Westminster ( the Salvation Army Store ) is the centre for the routing to the suburban areas.
So plans to bring a streetcar service to the lower mainland will have to fight the previous rejection of such a service.
Very cool! But with UCW now at Vancouver House, I wonder if it'd make more sense to just continue along Pacific maybe down into the English Bay area (similar-ish to the 23)? The boulevard/median strip does get narrower past Drake and there's no median past Hornby, so perhaps that's the problem, but I'm also having a hard time visualizing how turning up Drake and terminating at Granville would work given the buildings that are there right now. Would something need to come down?
new stainer video, I used to pray for times like this
A semi regular upload schedule?? I know, it surprises me as well
Looking back im glad i wasnt the only one to think that streetcars could fill in the missing middle in capactity, number of stps, speed, etc. Great minds think alike eh
While they are at it, bring back the Vancouver to Chilliwack interurban railway.
or use the route to add a new WCE line. Furthermore, could WCE run more than just rush hour in its current configuration. ..
Wow I was just saying how Vancouver would benefit from a street car. Having a diversity of transportation would really enrich the urban area
The missing middle of transportation + the missing middle of housing could lead to great things
Would be interesting to see you do a video about expansion in south Langley, Brookswood area. There are developments there and Fernridge that have started, like on 32nd and will be developing more soon. In 20 years that whole area will be unrecognizable.
I can't say I'm familiar with the area. I'll have to look into it and see what's up.
I feel like a street car is a half measure, especially along the Arbutus Greenway portion. Have there been considerations for how this would pencil in as a skytrain instead?
At the current time there's no plan for skytrain, it's just too much capacity for the area, also costs would be significantly higher. A streetcar bridges the gap with higher service levels compared to a bus, but much cheaper to install and run compared to a train. It's all about building the right project in the right place, and that appears to be a streetcar. (I'm very pro skytrain, but this makes sense)
@@StainerTheFirst When you talk about streetcars, are you talking about LRT?
Ding-Ding!
They should propose a 1 cent sales tax increase. Los Angeles increased the sales tax to fund the construction of the light rail and subway lines. It's been continually expanded since 1990. There are 9 Metro rail projects proposed to be completed within the next 12 years. When that happens the system will grow from 109 miles to around 180 miles making it the 2nd largest in the USA behind NYC.
A streetcar loop has been proposed for DTLA, but it hasn't gotten anywhere in the last 10 years. It's not an LA Metro transit project so it doesn't get any of the sales tax funding. Hopefully, it still happens. It would be a great way to increase the interconnections between tge subway and light rail, and also serve to help solve the first and last mile issues for tourist and residents of DTLA.
I made this very point. Vancouver should be able to invest in itself without having to ONLY rely on regional forces to approve. Vancouver could tax itself to then transfer operations to Translink once the streetcar rails/stations are built.
BUILD IT BUILD IT!
How is there not already a street car between West End and Waterfront? It's crazy.
I ❤ Vancouver
I know it woulda been a buncha work, but a little (animated) map overlay/PIP to go along with your verbal description woulda been really helpful. Nice work on these videos, though!
Glad you like the videos! I'm in the process of learning how to make animated maps for future videos :)
@@StainerTheFirst Looking forward to it! :D
Could you please talk more about surrey's future transit infrastructure? Thank you.
I'll be following the skytrain project as soon as it gets going! Will probably follow the brt once it gets funded as well!
I would LOVE a cardero stop on a streetcar, there’s sooo many busses going along there that end up half empty before going over the bridge because people are going from city centre downtown to Stanley park on the busses that go over the bridge after
Although, I think trolly busses are going to be easier to implement. The 5 bus downtown is all electric, I wish they would run the 240/250 busses on electric until Stanley park/until the bridge
Do it!!!!
If a line is proposed over cordova, how do they plan to bridge the gap between the rubber expanders in the road?
more specifically, the waterfront and canada place area.
There's a type of joint for rails that works perfectly. Super easy solution
@@StainerTheFirst ez
I keep forgetting Bombardier makes trains too lol
great video! really hope it gets built one day. Unfortunately we’ll have to wait until the end of the current Vancouver administration who has shown very little interest in non-car transportation and proactive investment.
Nice video! Did you film those drone shots? Are we allowed to fly over those areas?
Glad you like it! If you get licensed and follow the rules, you can fly a drone in most places with the correct permissions and paperwork!
DOOOOOOOOOO IIIIIIIT!!!
Once Gastown is properly pedestrianized, this streetcar could certainly help replace the transportation needs to the businesses.
Instead of skytrain to UBS they could build tram route on 16th or 25th Ave. But less kickbacks from it.
I'm sure these will be an improvement but I'm not sure it would provide better value for money than more regional projects. These areas of Vancouver are already well served by existing Skytrain and bus routes. So it seems like it will improve travel times but not really get anyone using a car to switch to public transit.
This isn't a question of "is it worth the money", it's "is it better to spend money here than (e.g.) a new skytrain route".
Why is there never any trains that go to the west end
Traffic in central Surrey is getting so freaking bad. The early Rush hour basically blends into the late Rush hour, it's like a whole Rush afternoon. And I can't imagine what it's going to be like in a few years with all the immigration set to take place. I think the street car idea would be great for King George maybe 152nd as well. I don't see the SkyTrain alleviating the problem entirely. The traffic even spills into some residential streets. Waiting for advanced greens in Guildford, you almost always have to wait 2 or 3 light cycles, and the left turn lanes almost always overfills blocking the middle lane.
My aunt and uncles on 144th, during rush hour sometimes it takes 20 minutes to get it out of their driveway.
Like I don't know what we're going to do, it's already getting absolutely crazy. Yet without immigration, we face population decline and economic disaster.
Welp... It will all work itself out I'm sure hehe. Great video btw.
The three bureaucratic levels of government will study this for 100 yrs and study after study after study will all say build it ............but I will take 150 yrs to do so........ Megacity Shanghai metro: At just over 30 years old, Shanghai's Mass Rapid Transit network is one of the world's fastest growing. It now has 408 stations and by 2025 will have 620 miles of track, serving more than 10 million passengers per day. Vancouver has got the land, we have the technology but it takes City Council forever to build it.............. JUST DO IT!!!
Vancouver is already running electric busses. A street car system is just conspicious consumption. Just like those really expensive bicycles with carbon prints larger than an entire village in South America.
Yeah but riding a carbon bike is *chef's kiss*
It would be way cheaper to implement a network of small self-driving cars on dedicated roads. You could even equip them with rail wheels so that they can ride on light tracks that charge them when traveling long distances. This is like traveling back to a time that makes no sense.
No it wouldn't Roads are wider than rails and cars are way way heavier per person transported meaning more weight to move requiring more energy. We also do not have self driving technology good enough for that.
Great video but you could clean up the audio a bit
Who did these captions? Not somebody from Vancouver, presumably -- so many errors in the names.
Funny how 100 years ago there was an electric railcar heading all the way to Sumas
Imagine if we still had all of the old BCER right of ways. And had never torn up the tracks.
I'm too young, but my dad would tell me of going from downtown all the way to Chilliwack on streetcars. Ever wonder why Cambie is so wide? How about King Ed blvd? Never mind the original owners of the Arbutus corridor.
Great.. keep all transit running 24/7.... would solve the housing shortage.
I quite seriously believe if Vancouver was serious about an Arbutus streetcar, they would never have ripped up the tract that was there.
While that would make sense, the track that was there was in very poor condition. The whole corridor would need to be replaced and brought up to modern standards.