Explanation For The "Creation" Of The Universe
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Can atheists explain the creation of the universe, or the better question, should we have to?
This clip is from The Atheist Experience, Episode 28.25 for June, 23 2024 withSecular Rarity (SR) and Armin Navabi!
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I think the problem they get into is they want to ask us, "Well, what's your explanation then?" Then they think that if we don't have one, they win by default, which they don't. They seem to think that our lack of an explanation bolsters theirs when theirs must stand on its own.
A lack of any coherent theory of knowledge leads to this.
That's definitely one of them .
If you're going to argue that God doesn't exist you should have an explanation to why you come to that conclusion.
If you make a claim to the supernatural like the idea of the origins of Life came into existence without creation, without God don't you think that person should have an explanation to why they make that assertion.
@@HumanistsAreEvil? . He's not arguing about existence?
@@HumanistsAreEvilDo you not understand the difference between the rejection of your claim about God, and making a positive claim that God does not exist?
Rick's in the "I'm not stupid like those OTHER Christians" phase.
😂😂 So cute
Dam it, Jim, I’m an atheist, not a cosmologist.
That should be a T-shirt!!
It always amazes me that these folks aren't embarassed displaying their vast ignorance, but they think they have 'gotchas'.
Right?! I don't understand why callers haven't figured out that their argument has already been presented and destroyed YEARS before their "ahh haaa" moment.
I used to be like them. It's all about the information that these theists receive. They've never heard of better explanations and arguments. As a former Catholic, i wasn't taught about logical fallacies and biases, so I had no clue that these religious claims were stupid. We're victims of religion, and proper education on psychology and philosophy will set you free
Of course they're not embarrassed these atheist humanists take their children to drag queen story hour events if that doesn't embarrass them nothing will.
Look what they do like in places like California they just pull down their pants and take a crap in the middle of the sidewalk. Even a dog tries to go behind a tree.
A dog doesn't want anybody watching him take a s*** but an atheist doesn't care.
@@HumanistsAreEvil
Why you so obsessed with drag queens aPot?
If I had to describe the position of atheism with one word it would be ignorance.
If you took the brain of an agnostic and replaced it with the rock and did the same thing with somebody who believes in God and did the same thing with an atheist you would end up with three atheists.
Because atheism is a disbelief which means it's an unwillingness or inability to accept God
Atheism is the only position that somebody could have that I know of where you're not required to even think to hold that position.
Still can't believe there are adults who believe in God. Can't get my head round it. It's so weird.
It’s embarrassing that we share the same oxygen with them.
@@tonyclements1147
It's a wonder we share oxygen and their brains are still underperforming. Where is their share of oxygen going?
I guarantee Rick will not look into the beginnings of the universe. Theists like Rick never do their homework, they just call back with another argument.
It’s usually the same argument just remixed.
You cannot conclude Rick will not look deeper into things and draw a different conclusion. Compared to the majority of theists that call in to these shows, I thought he was fairly open minded. Could be that Armin and the other athiest gave him something to think about. It happens you know.
Exactly-he is mentally lazy, and is afraid of information. He will only present things that did not ever convince him in the first place.
You probably listen to Richard Dawkins and believe everything came from nothingness.
Do you believe the origins of Life came into existence without creation, without God if so please provide evidence to why you believe that.
If you don't believe that just respond to me and tell me that we found commonality and that would be the fact that neither one of us believes the origin of Life came into existence without God.
Is that your position you should have no problem saying that unless you have a bias.
@@HumanistsAreEvil You have to provide evidence that everything was created. Science proves that nothing was created, refer to the laws of thermodynamics. And there is no evidence that anything was created-it’s just a stupid book called the Bible-not evidence. Also, there is no evidence that there ever was a such thing as nothing. Dawkins does not believe what you said. So there’s your evidence. You are just another theist that pretends to be smart. And, you don’t understand science or what the burden of proof is-not surprising.
We are at 169 days and still nobody has been able to provide any convincing reason to believe in the existence of any god, gods, souls, sin, any form of afterlife or other divine or supernatural beings.
And the beat goes on.
169 days? I think we’re at a few thousand years at this point.
@@YeetusaurusRex lol. You’re correct. But it’s a bit difficult to put a date on the very first god claim so I’m just going by my own count in these threads.
It's not a good question because by calling it a creation you need to demonstrate that it was created.
Edit: this pissed me off so I commented immediately, thanks Armin for pushing back
Exactly.
Yeah, but in Book 3 of the Great Santa, it says 'Santa says there's a Santa.'
If I don't accept your Santa claim, do you think I will accept your Santa's Santa claim?
Xtians: Explain is EXACTLY the SAME LEVEL OF DETAIL you are asking Atheists the origin of the universe.
"Our sky daddy did MAGIC" is a DUMB answer.
LOLZ
I love how the Genesis story now supposedly describes the big bang, now that we know there was one, but 100, 150, 200 years ago it described something completely different. Those goalposts sure move a lot.
@@ziploc2000 Every time Science finds/discovers something, the Xtians just use some dumb vague passage from the book and say the bible already said that.
.
LOLZ
Imagine there's no heaven. It's easy if you try. No hell below us. Above us only sky.
I've never imagined there is a heaven and hell.
Imagine there's no NEPy, Easier than you think. No Damonkey on our back, no JimEdith in Florida's Pink.
You may say I'M a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...
The count is at 168 straight days of folks failing to provide even a single convincing reason to believe in the existence of any god, gods, souls, sin, any form of afterlife or other divine or supernatural beings.
13.8 billion years, more like
@@Starke667 Funny enough, religious practices have existed for around 60,000 years but the idea of religion wasn’t created until around the 17th century.
The count is thousands of days straight and nobody supplying any convincing evidence to the supernatural the idea of the origins of Life can pop into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence.
@@HumanistsAreEvil
Get new material already, it’s like you graduated with a degree in bullshite from NEP University.
@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPED
What “biblical truth”? It’s an oxymoron.
Was the Universe "created"? How did you rule out the multitude of other possible universes? Learn some science dood, this is cutting edge stuff way beyond an Atheists show.
We can be pretty darned sure that the universe existed long before the ancient superstitions that make the claim. LOL
Theist: what is your explanation for this thing we don’t have a demonstrable explanation for?
Atheist: I just admit that I don’t know and I’m comfortable with that
Theist: well, I have a magical explanation that I imagine, based on thousands of years old mythology
Atheist: well, since it’s nothing you can actually demonstrate I reject it
Theist: BUT I HAVE AN ANSWER!!!
It’s one of my biggest pet peeves when people deflect to what they’re allowed to do (“it’s my right to…”) instead of what they actually should do.
Ir's also amusing how Neverending Fraud seems to think that getting in touch with people would be a tremendous bother for an omnipotent deity.
Neverending Fraud doesn't believe in following the evidence where it keads. To do that, you have to be prepared ro put personal biases aside and use a rigorously impartial process for ascertaining the truth of the matter. Neffy, however, disdains the rules of inference and evidence, and in fact takes a perverse delight in being unreasonable.
This conflation of scientific models with dogma gets annoying. We build models based on the evidence we have that can be tested. That's why there's no problem with a current model that says `all we know of that exists, had a beginning, and that beginning was a big bang.` However, that doesn't mean all of physical existence necessarily began at the big bang.
Using that model as some kind of a philosophical axiom is irrational. In fact, there have already been discoveries made by JWST that are challenging the current model. It may amount to nothing, it might alter it, it could potentially replace it, and that's wonderful. Because unlike religious dogma, science embraces new data. Science wants to be challenged, because the goal is to learn everything we can about the existence we are part of. It's not to decide how everything is, and then close our eyes and put our hands over our ears.
Scientists tentatively believe.
Richard Feynman said that the best a Scientist can do is not being proven wrong in his lifetime.
@somersetcace1
He worded it to be provocative.
Einstein proved Newton wrong. But Einstein could be proven wrong.
I think it was the same lecture he started by saying to show a new scientific law, the first thing they do is guess it.
The Universe was not created, easy. Next. A beginning of change, is not a beginning of existence. Change is the result of the initial state of matter which was static and unstable.
If your argument is that disbelief in your God is unreasonable unless I can show that the universe came about without your God, you are committing the argument from ignorance fallacy. You are assuming that your belief that your God created the universe is true by default in the absence of contrary evidence.
(from Wikpedia): "Argument from ignorance (from Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance represents "a lack of contrary evidence"), is a fallacy in informal logic. The fallacy is committed when one asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true."
That also becomes a burden of proof fallacy.
That particular argument demonstrates that they know they have no sound evidence for a god,
to me.
Rick, the number of books in the bible veries between the different Christian faiths.
I was raised Catholic, which means the bible I was taught from has a few books that most Protestant variants lack.
Before checking the comments I bet we get a ton of unsubstantiated assertions, burden shifting, and variations of the Kalam with its special pleading.
(Edited for typo)
Hey Neal... I had another idea about rhyming with the word "wisdom" and it has huge potential.
"is dumb" actually rhymes perfectly with "wisdom".
@@holgerlubotzki3469
Excellent 👍
Well, having gone through the comments so far we got plenty of the first two from the usual sources but the KCA has been avoided.
Rick the answer to your question of life, the universe and everything is
42
But seriously i don't need an answer for the creation of the universe, since i don't believe it was created.
As for everything else, it was inevitable given that there is zero evidence the universe could be any other way than how it is.
" i don't need an answer for the creation of the universe, since i don't believe it was created."
It is even worse for the christians, it plays no role for us whether it was created, is eternal, is limited.
Not in the sense that it controls our everyday life.
It is like the "You reject God because you want to sin" and similar nonsense. Christians always want to nail atheists down on "you hate God".
The apologists are usually exhausting their powder in the indisprovability of an indistinct, featureless, nebulous Prime Mover .
No atheist cares about such a non-intervening entity.
For me God is NOT the issue why people are atheists.
It is not the immaterial God, it is the physical, existing PEOPLE that believe in God that rile atheists up.
How the PEOPLE act, act against others, demand to be right in all they think and say, judge over others, refuse to regard anything that is outside of their dogma.
I think atheists should stress that more, instead of arguing endlessly over the existence sentient entities outside of reality, of claimed historic events 2,000+ years ago that are untraceable,
It is about the PEOPLE that we concretely are faced with NOW.
If it wasn't natural agency that brought the universe into being, what are we left with? Exactly.
@@feedingravens
Despite your meanderingly meaningless composition, you will STILL give account to your Creator, as you should. It's only right after all, yeah? Done.
@deniss2623 What are we left with? Who knows? You don't.
@amtlpaul
"When you have eliminated the impossible, what remains, however unpatable, must be the truth."
( With apologies to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.)
the hebrew bible is an ancient tribal book of claims, not a science or cosmology textbook. the caller needs to grow up.
This caller still doesn't get it. This argument, "Prove to me that a God didn't do it (fill in the blank)..." is not an argument. I can't prove Santa Claus doesn't exist. But if someone claims he does, the burden of proof is on the claimant. (Actually I think he does exist, because someone is eating the cookies I left out on Christmas Eve.)
Santa Claus was the Council of Nicea. He may have decked out someone there.
@@stephenolan5539 Gee, I was there. I didn't see him. I must have been at the open bar.
You can't explain _____, therefore God exists.
Yup, well if you don’t know how life began so therefore God.
I hear that every time I tell a religious person I don’t see anything that proves a God exists.
Argument from Ignorance fallacy, AKA God of the Gaps.
You can't show us God therefore life pops into existence because of of a non intelligent occurrence.
Atheism is a disbelief which means even if God was proven by the scientific method an atheist still wouldn't or couldn't accept
@@HDFWBnope , the argument from The atheist ,is if you don't see God therefore the supernatural aka life can just pop into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence.
The belief in God has been proven to be a logical conclusion and or a designed thought.
Atheism has nothing to do with evidential logic it's a rejection it's a disbelief it's an unwillingness or inability to accept God.
Even if God was proven by the scientific method an atheist still wouldn't accept.
@HumanistsAreEvil where us god?
9:30 Rick: "If you don't accept my views, what would your view be?". The answer can be "I DON'T KNOW!" and there's NOTHING wrong with that. It's actually a very honest and humble answer. Altho, many theists seem to have a problem with that... But, at least Rick is ok with it.
Our religious nuts ask the most irrelevant question ever asked, as if it's the most important thing in all the universe.
If the caller is going to cite the Bible as his backup, he should be reminded that the very first book of the Bible, the book of Genesis, gets everything wrong about how the Earth, stars , and man on Earth came to be. It contradicts everything we know, which is based on all the scientific evidence. So to use the Bible to explain anything about creation is absurd.
Here's what @JimCastleberry said:
JEdith: " You are also lying to claim I evade your hypothetical question that assumes a condition that is not logically possible." and "Down the chipper with lying trash." [By chipper, he means a wood chipper, and he is saying that I should be thrown into one.]
Also JEdith: "Ya lying psychopath."
I have a fun little poll on my community page where you can vote on who you think is the REAL lying "psychopath".😉 This is a poll that I do NOT want to win!
I voted!
@@amtlpaulWhere's that one guy who always says all atheists are sks? Maybe he would agree with JEdith.
@@queueceeI voted Myself. There is also a theory out there that our universe was the result of a black hole. However said theory does not have enough evidence yet
If you let space dust marinate for a few billion years, it will turn into a turtle. Trust me bro.
Dune is also a series of 6 books
6?
I thought there were more.
@@stephenolan5539 Yes, the original series of 6 books was written by Frank Herbert, but the rest of the books (17) were by his son Brian and other author.
If someone could present evidence that would convince me that a creator exists, that that's the most likely explanation, then yes, I'd be convinced that a creator exists. But that's just a tautology.
I would not, however, believe that Christianity is true. That would need to be justified separately. The mere existence of some creator seems like pretty weak evidence for all the claims Christianity is making. Arguments for some creator gets you nowhere close to any deity worth caring about, and are therefore pointless.
'The mere existence of some creator "
Exactly.... for example several other religions have a creator... and in a couple of cases older stories that Genesis was obviously copied from....
The universe can't be explained. Where are you intellectually standing when you ask for an explanation of the universe? You are part of the universe. You can't explain existence by pointing to something that exists. Remember, the universe is the totality of what exists; that's what the word means: From the Latin, universes, meaning turning into one or whole. So, the question asks one to explain existence employing non-existence. How different would human history have been, and how much better would the world be now if this simple fact had been acknowledged?
I agree with your observation about a frame of reference being difficult to explain from within that frame. Self-reference is often tricky that way. That's where we get the Liar Paradox and the Barber Paradox.
But sometimes there are solutions. The problem with naive set theory that gives rise to the Barber Paradox is solved with ZFC, and it (as far as I'm aware) doesn't raise further problems of that kind.
Another example is how we can describe the curvature of spacetime without necessarily appealing to higher dimensions in which the curvature is expressed. We can use the geometric concept of a manifold instead.
One way to tell that the Earth is not flat is because if it were, then travelling a path on its surface consisting of several very long segments with right angles in between would yield a quadrilateral. If the surface is spherical, it will yield a triangle. If the surface is a hyperboloid, the path will not cross itself (I think that I got that last one right.)
So, in this scenario, it would be possible for us to infer the exact curvature through accurate measurements entirely within two dimensions. Likewise, from within the four dimensions of spacetime we can talk precisely about its curvature without having to assert that there is a fifth or higher dimension in which the curvature takes place. We've just described a frame of reference from within that frame of reference, but it's ambiguous as to whether there might be an outer frame of reference as well.
It’s so annoying also when Christians or Muslims or any other theists try to argue for deism when they belief in a specific god. Even if they could prove a god started the universe, that in no way gets them to their preferred deity
My first time seeing Armin and loving it. When a Christian quotes the bible to me I respond "call me Ishmael". It means as much to me as Mody Dick. At least Moby Dick has an interesting plot line that doesn't ruin lives.
I don't know, Robin.
Moby Dick fucked up Captain Ahab's life! lol
Pity he's such a raving Zionist.
@@pencilpauli9442
Or did Captain Ahab do it to himself?
Maybe you can explain why atheist humanist choose to live under what Christians created which is modern Western Civilization rather than living under their Godless atheistic humanist Utopias like North Korea.
Why do you open the borders to Christian civilization, we don't want your open borders and multiculturalism. We don't want your equity we don't want your drag queen story hour.
Have the courage of your convictions and leave.
And for God's sakes stop forcing people in speech to acknowledge your gender faith. We don't care if you think you're born in the wrong body we don't want to be bothered with it
Blah blah F blah aPot.
Get new material already.
"It's winding down (so our universe had to have a beginning)"? So is our current star, the sun. As far as we can tell, every bit of mass and energy contained in the sun has existed since prior to its formation, so no, simply because something is 'winding down' does not imply an absolute beginning. It may only imply an age - relative only to its current form or substantiation.
Similarly, there is NO agreed upon scientific consensus of our universe having an absolute beginning or not, so please do not propose the LIE that there is such a current consensus in any argument - or this lie should be called out (talking to you, WLC).
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA......"Arman's just suppressing the truth in unrighteousness" 😆😂😆 love it! That was too funny 🤣😀🤣
I love the channel but I'm not crazy about Armin the raving Zionist.
Sure if ther were so absolute proof that there is actually a God I would believe that it does exist.
But like they said following it would be diffident.
I would have lots of questions for this God such as why do you allow people to suffer and die from terrible diseases?
No one knows, but thus far we're betting on INSTABILITY. But in general, no one knows.
Ooh! Aah! I like Armin; he listened very well (or wrote it down) and addresses Rick DIIRECTLY on the points and exact wording Rick came with.
Asking someone to choose between God and Science is like asking someone to choose between Henry Ford and the Ford Motor Car. Agency does not compete with mechanism. We can study the cake that comes out of the oven, but we don't know why it exists unless we ask Aunt Matilda.
The failed and jailed chiro-quacktor is so stupid he actually thinks that Henry Ford just spoke all those Model T Fords into existence with a a magic spell and there was never a factory or a production line with humans working to manufacture the cars. LOL
We know cakes are baked. We don't have anything to know if or not the universe is baked
Are cars real?
Science takes care of the gaps in our knowledge, and the ever-shrinking pocket of scientific ignorance we once called a god.
When studying the cake shows that it isn't cake and no sign of an Aunt Matilda your unsubstantiated claims that it's Aunt Matilda's cake fall flat.
Do try to learn.
Remember, when we didn't knew what lightning was and how it worked, it OBVIOUSLY was Zeus doing it?
Lightning didn't strike at random! How can you explain that it strikes trees instead of the ground?
It has to be targeted!!!
You can't explain that!!!
Well, it wasn't Zeus, and there is an explaination why lightning targets specific things, we just didn't know for a long, long time.
We all want true answers. If I'm wrong, in my belief that there is no god or gods, I'd like to know that. Right now, I do not believe. Great conversation!
Not all.
A lot if people want definite answers. Accuracy optional.
I've really come to love Armin's approach to these conversations. I want to hear a lot more from him.
Bible literally means book.
ARMINNNNNN 13:12 yes
😊
Good morning!
While I get Armin's point of "You probably would worship that god due to the threat of damnation" sure, I guess? But that god would probably also know I'm bullshitting it, so is there a point?
Good call Rick, it was a pleasure hearing your point of view. The only question I would have asked you, is why does the answer have to be a god?
Even if we get definitive proof that some kind of creator 'being' caused this universe, we are still a LONG way off from determining IF that cause 1) still exists at all, 2) interacts in any way currently with this universe 2b) let alone with any primate (so, effectively does not exist), 3) has needs or thoughts anything like a primate can imagine, 4) requires anything from any primate, 5) if so, has that requirement been satisfied already or not?, 6) if not, what is the requirement? 7) and, to which primate does this requirement specifically apply? 8) is the requirement entirely optional, or 9) are there any consequences/benefits to any primate at any point?
(Yet some primates, genuflect, others go door-to-door, others avoid certain non-harmful foods/consensual sex acts, others bow to the East, wear/not wear certain clothing, demand other primates do and think like they do and insist the other primates do/think incorrectly, feel guilty, etc. all to gain some supposed reward/avoid some consequence - or obtain a variety of other primate goals).
We don't know how the universe came to exist, why it's in the sorry state that it's in, or whom (if anybody) is to blame for it. The mere fact that we do not have this information is no reason to lay responsiblity at God's feet.
Assuming he actually exists, it's only going to cause ill feelings.
A: cosmology, physics, chemistry, biology and evolution.
If God wants to get me attention, he will speak to me.
>>> You seem to be saying that it's "God's turn" in this process. But you're wrong. According to his Word, he's ALREADY created you out of himself (in his image & likeness) and gave you the gift of life. THEN when Adam doomed you, he sent his son to die for the curse of sin on you AND the sin you've committed in your own life. He's ALSO told you that he's "prepared a place for you in heaven" and you can go there and enjoy it for eternity if you'll only let him love you. So it's YOUR TURN to show him some acceptance. He's RIGHTFULLY waiting on you.
You already know that all Godless ideas are IMPOSSIBLE/NEVER OBSERVED & have been thoroughly debunked, but you continue to choose to DESPERATELY cling to that destroyed religion regardless.
You've chosen your path: You're a self-righteous skeptical enemy of God w/ a sinful life that's not worthy of his presence. You've not sought him in the MODE of being one w/ an humble heart. Jesus never responded to skeptics. God requires faith and you have none. Your faith is in the flesh, which is full of nothing but failure. This fact may have escaped you: He's God and you're not. That means YOU need to get w/ his program and not vice versa. Remain the stubborn rebel that you are and you'll wish that you had never been born. BUT the gospel is out there. You must be "born again," but you refuse.
“You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.” - John 3:7
_"According to his Word, he's ALREADY created you out of himself (in his image & likeness)"_
So g0d is an androgynous hermaphrodite? Really?
Mr “I don’t need to quote the Bible” can’t stop quoting it.
God wants to know me, so he should introduce himself. I don't know him yet and show no interest in him because I don't know enough about him. But he's been stalking me for 15 years, and he's supposedly omniscient, so he can definitely talk his way into my heart.
If God wants to talk to me, he will send an idiot.
*The simple believeth every word* : but the prudent man looketh well to his going. Proverbs 14:15
Maybe this dude should talk to Neil Degrasse Tyson.
Armin hits the freaking nail on the freaking head with bringing up the Bible/Quoran to atheists. Man my heart jumped for joy. YES!
This clip is an example of why I can't watch the show if Secular Rarity and/or Armin Navab host. They are both so long-winded and take FOREVER to explain anything. And Armin will re-word his answer in the middle of giving an answer. He also rephrases questions right after asking it in the same breath. They just like to hear themselves talk. Get Jim Barrows to host. He hits the direct points and isn't wordy.
Yet you watched.
Yet you must have watched or listened to the clip to know what went on.
Think of all the privilege we'd have access to if we believed!!
...
I understand why one of the questions theists have for atheist is “well if my god didn’t create everything, then who did” is a good question, but like why do theists/apologists expect every single atheist to know every little thing about how the universe works? When they at best have a grade school understanding of it?
First yes, and second : your god didn't created itself, so what did ? (asking christians)
Spoiler alert: onthological argument isn't valid. Just because i can think of a pink ball with the property that if i think about that ball, it appears in front of me, doesn't mean that a pink ball appeared in front of me just becuase i just thought of it
It's a question but it's not a good one, since an atheist doesn't believe there's a who that created everything.
To Armin's point about forced worship: I'm not saying I wouldn't be so afraid as to try to convince a god I'm sure exists that I worship it even if I know that it's all knowing and would therefor know that I'm not being genuine but my point is that I wouldn't be able to genuinely believe that a god who has the power to prevent the immense suffering we can see in the world and doesn't prevent it is worthy of worship.
Looking at the argument from Armin's point, I just wonder where he would draw the line.
They somehow made the smugness come across very well just using a thumbnail.
Great job!
I've tired of theist saying "The Universe had a beginning" and the host agreeing with it. Where are you getting it from?
Because, by most reckonings, the big bang WAS a beginning. Was it the ONLY beginning? Now that's the harder question.
@@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2
And it's especially hard because beginnings require causality and we know causality doesn't work at the quantum scale the same way as at the macro scale where time and space are consistent.
@@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2 My boomerang won't kalaam back!
The current iteration had a beginning. There was something before that.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 That's funny....
What is a unit
Yes, we can
SR, I'm just a tad bit disappointed, Dude. When Rick said he needed 100% proof, you should have called him out on that statement. That's dishonest. We can't know anything with 100% certainty. But more importantly, he was saying no one could convince him out of his beliefs, while being disingenuous in responding to your points.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
True or False.
Christianity is a dynasty
...a dynasty born from a blood sacrifice from a being born of sin? Is Jesus Mohg now? Yesterday I got compared to a blasphemes serpent (TOGETHAH!) and now your making it sound like Christianity is Mohgs little band of creeps. Have you been playing Elden Ring?
False
It might be a dynasty if Jesus was the ruler of all Christians when he was alive and he or some incarnation of him came back to take over after he died. None of this happened.
@@joshsheridan9511 Do you know what a dynasty is.
Off-topic
Excellent points from Armin & S.R.!!
You can say “I don’t know” or you can follow the evidence where it leads. We know that a BEGINNER is required, being that this world had a beginning. And if FINITE NATURE (time/space/matter/energy) had a beginner/cause, we then know that the prime mover/uncaused first cause/INFINITE, ETERNAL, SUPERNATURAL GOD is personal, because he made a choice to go from a state of NOTHING into a state of CREATION. Timeless, because he created/designed time. God is personal, uncaused, beginningless, changeless, immaterial, timeless, spaceless and enormously powerful.
Physical proof? Is this world not “physical?” And since this “physical” world had a beginning, a beginner is required. And if this beginner is going to create/design/produce FINITE NATURE (time/space/matter/energy), then he can’t be part of time/space/matter/energy, which makes him personal, uncaused, beginningless, changeless, immaterial, timeless, spaceless and enormously powerful.
FIN
How do you know that.
Look up the Big Bounce Theory.
NEPPY tried asking his psych ward nurse
About the origins of the universe
Who told him that there was just no way
The doctors could repair his brain DECAY
And his IQ heat death was only gonna get worse!
Finite nature doesn't require an infinite source. There's no logical impossibility to not have this
NEP and his tired copy paste. 🥱
World, yes. We know how this world began. But the universe? Not necessarily.
Why is there such a difference in God's actions and ways in the OT vs Jesus' in the NT? Is this a contradiction? Is God of the Bible a good God, worthy of our worship or a wicked God to run as far from as possible? If Jesus is God and God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, can we reconcile these seeming 'differences' and is it even possible to honestly and humbly follow His first commandment - to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength?
Easy: Because is an evolving story, starting from polytheistic tribal war gods, to a naval gazing hippy who drank his own Kool aid, and finishing with a fever dream.
No divinity found, just people.
Finally a good question from you albeit you're still trying to sneak John 3 16 in there.
Given that the characters of YHWH and Jesus are different and displayed differently it would be very difficult to argue they are the same character.
Not without cherry picking verses or mental gymnastics over interpretations.
Given that both display morality different to what we claim today are they worth loving?
The OT YHWH absolutely not given sll the genocide and slavery.
Jesus would be easier but they failed at addressing things important like equality.
A non-existent god that nobody needs to care about?
_"Why is there such a difference in God's actions and ways in the OT vs Jesus' in the NT?"_
It was a necessary revision required to open up the fictional tribal religion to those outside of the tribe.
_"Is this a contradiction?"_
Unquestionably. Anybody with a functioning brain can see it and anybody with a good moral grounding will reject the whole thing for what it is.
@@holgerlubotzki3469
This contradiction is why the Gnostics, and Cathars, and similar Christian movements arose.
Do you feel like you're being given a fair chance to know if there really is a god?
Nobodies ever provided a convincing reason for me to believe in a god.
There's no fair or unfair about it, it's simply a fact.
They explicitly state that they don’t care about any religious teaching.
Even if there is proof to be found in any religious text, they wouldn’t care about it.
They care so little about it, that they’d rather do their best to try to call God evil, imperfect and weak, twisting scripture as much as possible to fit all their bias.
They are so proud of their “I don’t know”, and they want you to say it too to validate them.
@@EchoChamberDwellerexpect you and your ilk have failed to demonstrate any truth to your scriptures.
@@EchoChamberDwellerWhat "Proof" (mathematical term) does a CLAIM make?
@EchoChamberDweller Are you smarter than Albert Einstein who fully debunked all religions back in 1892 CE?
And what exactly are the chemicals that you lack that causes your 'lack of belief'?
Ask a neuroscientist if you really think that's a serious question, Daft.
@@amtlpaulIt's you people that seriously believe that your beliefs are chemically induced. So just tell us which ones .
@dawkins5824 What I believe is that the people who study brains for a living know a lot more about this than you or I do. I don't believe there is a 'God belief' chemical', that's just you being Daft.
It's not chemicals
You tell us, mate - what drugs are you on that addle your brain to the point where you believe in a magic sky fairy?
While I tag myself on Discord and Clubhouse as an Atheist I will be the first one to admit Atheism is an incoherent position since if you cannot explain the origin point of everything anything you say is shrouded in ultimate mystery so you cannot really say anything about anything. I am always looking for a good argument in support of Atheism that clearly rules out God as the origin of everything. So far, I have not heard any good arguments and it looks like I landed on some more "Clickbait" not actually giving a coherent response to the question of how there could be no God so I will keep looking. Thanks anyways and I hope you all have a nice day.
That was pointless, congratulations.
You can't explain the ultimate origin of everything, therefore you can't say anything about anything? Poppycock!
So many words for "I don't like the reply "I don't know", I prefer dishonest answers."
@@amtlpaul He makes it seem like just saying, "goddunit" is a sufficient explanation for the origin point of everything.🤦♂
It seems he's lying when he tags himself as an atheist, considering he doesn't seem to understand what atheism is.
@@amtlpaul Wow, that's all you got? Poppycock? Got anything else besides incredulity?
Which chemicals causes the belief in God, that I would need to lose, to convert to atheism?
Have you asked a neuroscientist, Daft?
We don't "convert" to atheism
Atheism isn’t a religion bro
Speaking of chemicals, have you forgotten to take your psychosis meds again?
What prevents you from going from being wrong to being right?
Its the atheists with the sky daddy! It's the atheist who asserts that mindless chemicals falling from the sky produced intelligent life. It's pure FAITH BASED BELIEFS!
Hey! It looks like Mad Gates from the MAGAT corkus is here but he has turned grey and let his hair grow long the try and make his forehead look even longer!!
(all the spilling errors above are deliberate because the YT censor BOT is a bit touchy about the man with sloping forehead that is longer than the rest of his face)
It's bizarre that you think that chemicals have a mind.
It doesn't. Try to learn.
@@queuecee Then by your own admission your sack of brain chemicals has no mind. Can't you atheists keep anything coherent, just once?
@@dawkins5824I guarantee you that no atheist thought chemicals had a mind. That would come from theists. You guys think a zygote has a soul and that man came from a mud puddle.
If you are going to accuse anyone of being consistent, why can't you guys keep your strawman arguments better organized so that you don't look so idiotic.
Just because you don't understand science doesn't mean it doesn't make sense
"Outside" of Matter and Space and Time = Massless and Spaceless and Timeless = Nothing + Nowhere + Never.
.
LOLZ
So 'nothing' can give rise to 'something'? That's quite a leap of faith for an atheist.
@@DesignsByTrey Your god = NOTHING.
lolz
@@sanjeevgig8918 Your argument = NOTHING. lolz.
@@DesignsByTrey You LAZY IGNORANT DUMB Xtian
LOLZ
@@sanjeevgig8918 I looked at your post, and I don't see you saying anything close to "nothing can give rise to something". Did I miss something that only StrawmanByTrey can read???
Why has he/him got long hair like a she/her?
The lady doth protest too much?
Just me asking (ze/zim/zer)