Early X Elite benchmarks CONFIRMED
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- Early Snapdragon X Elite benchmarks by a third party seem to confirm the chip's performance and battery life potential claims.
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#Windows #SnapdragonXElite #ARMProcessors
It's pretty good for first gen model. Single threaded performance is bit underwhelming and thermals are high, but overall pretty solid!
single core performance and efficiency is pretty much everything that counts.
@@JohnSmith-pn2vl wouldnt it be otherwise?
2 2 Ghz cores perform better than 1 4 Ghz
Or i may have gotten things wrong
Single core performance is held back by Windows. On Linux it's on par if not faster. Alex will probably test both Windows and Linux so we'll have a look. As for efficiency it beat the M3.
@@Bibbatron ah ok
I guess that clears the confusion
Given that i used linux for a while
You have to have a trade-off, everyone does, also, MAC M3 gets REALLY hot when pushed. The weakness of ARM is clock speed, X86 does better, and can go way higher.
Signal 65 GM Ryan Shrout is former Intel guy. Temperature testing is somewhat at low room temp 20C. Will have wait for actual production results at higher room temperature. They should have added Ryzen 7840u/8840u.
Edit: Fixed strout with Shrout. Thanks big eighties new user
omg is it really Ryan Shrout?? that guy is such a shill
Shrout.
Huge red flags seeing Ryan Shrout. He was very intellectually dishonest when he was at Intel trying to make out that Intel was still better than Apple Silicon.
haha i was about to write the same thing, he did the same shit back at intel with fake benchmarks
😮
I want to install Linux on this
can't wait, love asahi linux progress, but soldered storage still bugging me.
Linux is bad at battery life though
That will be a nuke bro.
Blazing fast
@@legendaryx2k19huh? Are you sure?
@@legendaryx2k19 Try auto-cpufreq
Unless you are a really really demanding video editor or AI model trainer, these ARM chips are all faster than 99% of people would ever need.
Or crunch huge data models (guilty)
The new chips aren't about "power" but the battery life improvements.
The extra battery hours are very valuable and if most of users wont use all the power is because after years of Windows underperforming all software is adapted to the old slow x86. Once ARM becomes the norm I expect a blow of very power-hungry (and hopefully useful) apps
True, what we needed was just a good arm laptop that has no fans, is slim, durable, has long battery life and does well on day to day tasks. Im waiting for a cheaper midrange ARM laptop to install Debian on. So far even what was out there in terms of ARM is still rather expensive and underwhelming.
@@APIAlchemistif you’re just referring to ARM chips in general the M3 max isn’t underwhelming in any sense.
I wonder what the M4 max will bring to the table.
I'll be honest, this report looks more like a publicity flyer than an independent 3rd party report.
It probably is. Nobody has their hands on these except this one firm. They're afraid to show actual numbers so you don't know if their BSing you or not. I can believe performance is better than an M3 in multi, but battery life? This thing is getting hyped to the moon and reality is going to suck.
I hope not. I truly hope the SnapDragon Elite line is every bit as good as the claims. Ever since the PC crowd came over to the Mac space it's been nothing but chaos. Complaining about this. Complaining about that. Why Apple does NOT do it like this or like that. Why doesn't Apple do it the PC way. Or why Apple charges so much for RAM? Or why Apple makes non-upgradable computers. And so on & so on. With an ARM based silicon of their own offering similar efficiency & performance as the Apple M series SoCs, perhaps they will depart back to PC land allowing peace & tranquilly to return to the Mac space. Just a different 2¢ perspective.
@@TheWallReportsnot likely after the coming “recall” update in Windows 11, just saying
@@MrAllthatgoodstuff It's ARM just like M3 (and Apple silicon) so I see no reason for poor battery life. While it might not last as long, it's gonna be better than any x86 windows laptop. Also, don't forget that laptops shipping with X Elite will have larger battery capacities than the macbook airs.
@@TheWallReportsI've been Apple for decades and even I am complaining about Apple RAM pricing!!!
Wow ! Intel 155H is so good...
Interesting how they ignored AMD completely 😀
Lunar Lake and Arrow Lake will get the courtyard heated!
they ignored AMD because they would make both the M3 and new snapdragon look bad lol.
@@27klickslegendThe M3 already beats AMD laptop U chips in Single thread and thermals. They had use a fanless MacBook M3 to even compare with Intel and Snapdragon that have fans. They should have used the MacBook Pro M3 that has a fan. The sustained performance of the M3 in applications is going to be effected due to lack of a fan.
I would still wait for proper third party tests.
@@27klickslegend let's not act like fan boys here even tho better than intel in efficiency.... they barely can sustain 6 hour oh light work on laptops....
@@rohithmekala2608 its compared based on price. Not really our faults apple cant afford a fan in a $1200 laptop
When you talked about the vision tests I LOL’D very hard! Recently I was writing some Python code doing vision work and finally thought, hmm, can I do this using VisionKit in a simple SwiftUI app? Why yes I can. Less than 100 lines of code later (mostly UI) my app used native libraries and the NPUs to run the same task over 100x faster, and the OCR performance on top of that was mindbogglingly better than Tesseract even after wasting hours training it to improve performance. This isn’t a slight against Python, it’s meant to simply demonstrate that what may APPEAR to be a reasonable benchmark, you actually have to understand the details in methodology to be able to frame how useful the data is to any given user segment. 👍
Intel Core Ultra 7 seems to be doing surprisingly well. Great competition in performance, but the prices seem to climb steadily.
Lunar Lake and Arrow Lake mobile, will be exciting. Who innovates better!
It was doing great, then the battery run out. LOL
at the expense of fan noise and bad battery life. Classic Intel. That is why ARM based chips are better in power conscious devices.
it is more about efficency and power consumption rather then row power. in my case I don't care about row power performance in a laptop I have my PC for that.
@@williammaverick The battery life was pretty decent of the Intel chip much better then I expected. As I can recall 90% of the new Snapdragon.
Ive never cared much at all for Mac OS or Windows, therefore to finally have a real option to run Linux natively with long lasting battery life at great speeds is a dream come true.
Before you mention Asahi Linux for Apple Silicon, unfortunately it's years away from fully functional.
I want to see how well Prism works, especially with VPN or management software like MDM or Cisco AnyConnect
Great video. The opening had me believing you had suddenly lost your mind! I’m glad you’re still Pragmatic Alex.
I know I prefer Apple but I’m always shocked at how much other major corporations lie and mislead buyers about a product’s capabilities and functionality BEFORE its release. Apple “cherry picks” but these companies flat out lie. It’s like they turn into Kickstarter.
cant wait for the dev benchmarks, how WSL works, real battery life (this one is important), etc.
Based on the 10°C higher temperature, the power consumption is bigger, so it's deplete the battery faster, it's like a 19W vs 23W power consumption (the 45°C vs 56°C), and the 20% higher power consumption also drain the battery 20% faster.
Why not release the actual score instead of a comparison? Isn't the whole idea that the company focuses on quality benchmarks?
conditions of test are important.
So comparing tests that are done by the same team at the same place is not that bad.
Bench are already not that interesting for the Snap as Windows ARM is not mature enough to have fiable tests.
@@anantmalik bro who cares how fast the NPU is anyways. You don't notice any performance improvement in any app whatsoever.
@@anantmalik did you even read my comment? I said it doesn't matter how fast the NPU is because literally no app out there depends on it other than some few OS functions which nobody cares about.
@@anantmalik I am not an apple fanboy by any means. I just hate Windows. I would rather install Linux and play games on Linux but because of app support I can't. But my point still remains. There's almost no use for these NPUs. CPUs and GPUs still matter. I don't think LLMs can run on NPUs even right now (other than Microsoft's custom made one Phi Silica) so there's literally no point to these things.
The thermals on these X Elite systems (all of which have fans running at full speed) should be compared to an M3 Pro system, not the fanless M3 MBA.
Yup exactly. I would say half of the issues is with Windows being so horribly optimized that it takes up that much power and processing. I have owned old laptops before and the laptops running weaker processors and worse battery capacity ran much longer than laptops on Windows 11 (which run like 4-5 hrs). So what changed? Windows
I think the same thing; the right system, in my opinion, is the macbook pro with m3 (not m3 pro).
@GarrusVakarian-to2uh yes, you are right but, in my opinion if we want have a good comparison between the two SoC (and not the laptop) we need to see m3 with a cooling system.
But yeah if we need to compare two laptop to choose which we need to buy (so the price must be similar) the right laptop is m3 air.
Why compare with last years M3 it needs to be compared to the M4, shame Microsoft thought they were doing so well. Maybe next year Microsoft.
@GarrusVakarian-to2uh the Surface with X Elite is $1,400 USD, if there was a M3 Pro MBA it would probably be around the same price. While the Surface Pro X Elite costs $1,500 without a keyboard, so not far from an MBP M3 Pro (arguably a higher quality tier laptop than both Surfaces).
For $999 the Surface comes with the X Plus, which has significantly lower perf.
I find it highly suspicious timing that they announced all of these Copilot+ PCs right before WWDC, but they will not actually be available until after WWDC so no real 3rd party tests. Signal65 isn't a 3rd party at all to me, they are living on Microsoft funding and MS wants this to go big.
baffles me how people cannot be excited about new tech anymore. Lets not pretend any corpo is trustworthy, but what Qualcomm (and partly MS) is trying to do here is only for the benefit of the market. There are more positives here to talk about than negatives.
@@Burbananayup I totally agree. People be LOOKING for reasons to be negative even when there's no basis. Same thing happening on r/technology, sucks for us who actually excited about new tech
I mean, they can’t even hide in their own test this chip won’t beat any MacBooks, and they still make these ridiculous claims
I think they meant it will be faster for ✨AI✨, but still, they’ve shown us no real comparisons and as making these claims purely on technicalities that may not translate well at all to real world use
I think they want so bad to have an ARM/M1 revolution as well they are squeezing any number that may remotely resembles what Apple had in 2020 to make it seen like they are now in the same position Apple once was. But they just are not
Probably you are right, but they just already missed the promised "six months later" time what they announced 7 months ago, so they need to announce we "only need one more month".
Signal 65: We'll produce favorable benchmarks for whoever pays us the most. Am I wrong? Should I not have said that?
shh
@@AZisk oops,
The Snapdragon X and Apple Silicon lines are both really good, with each of them winning on different benchmarks. The real news here is that somebody has finally caught up with Apple on chip design, and maybe we can have some real competition that helps the consumer.
Not caught up at all, Apple is already now on M4 which will spank the M3 already, expect this entire year to be M4.
However, it's good we have something better than intel/AMD on the MS Windows world. Lower power better battery can only be a good thing. And will force more software to update into ARM technology.
Also notice how it’s compared to the m3 and not the m3 max
Don't forget the passive cooling but with great performance provided by the X Elite chip.. something the competition don't provide except Apple's.
@@JoshuaCartetrbtv It's not a chip meant to be compared against the M3 Max
@@crestofhonor2349 but it's the highest end model? I mean it's fine if it's meant for more budget but then this just shows the gap, seems like AMD is the only one who can compete with Apple
Snapdragon X Elite is also ARM-based machine as Apple Silicon. What do you think if it runs MacOS in a way of Hackintosh-in-ARM? Do you think it is possible? Looking forwared to see your next video with this topic may be 😛
Doubt it's possible. They aren't the same chip. Hackintosh's when Macs were still x86 didn't have all x86 processors compatible, typically only the ones available on MacOS were compatible. There's no was a snapdragon chip will work in MacOS
I mean the ARM chip version MacOS, which the latest Apple Silicon is running on. We can run ARM-based version of Window OS on M-series Macintosh. This is why I think in a reverse way that ARM-based PC may possible to run MacOS.
No it won't. They're built on custom architectures and not the default arm ones.
Moreover, buy MacBook and run windows then, it better that way
Just a curious whether all OS will be interchangeable between all platforms that are ARM-based at the end. 😂
Thanks Alex
thanks for joining!
Maybe in 10 years they'll all be adopting RiskV instead of ARM. And adding other *PU types to cope with other specific uses that are now still managed by NPU, GPU, CPU
Impressive. MS having their M1 moment. Glad to see some real competition in the chip space. This is where the fun begins!
MS? Pretty sure it's Qualcomm m1 moment
would love to see some test for engineering applications (matlab, pspice, fusion 360, radiant, etc.)
It’s a game of leapfrog. They compare against M3 but that is last year‘s model. M4 is so far only available in the iPad pro.
Anyone who thinks ARM does not have trade-offs is mistaken, esp. since Intel is rewriting the book on x86, totally reengineering it, and will move from silicon to glass first.
Could you give some examples of the disadvantages? I'd love to know.
What I would like to see from you is WSL2 with pyTorch and see how that works. Also just general usage of vscode with Python.
I'm curious, why did the 3rd party tester choose MBA M3 instead of MBP M3?
Who knows but it shouldn't make too much of a difference outside of sustained tasks. My guess would be price
Only recently discovered your channel and it’s instantly in my top 10, thanks for the great content!
Welcome aboard!
>Eiffel 65
That was 25 years ago, OMG
And now Bebe Rex’s is singing it with David Guetta
They should compare the X Elite against the M3 Pro or M3 Max in multicore performance.
@@anantmalik lol none of the computers announced for now has 84 sku, how can they even test it? lol
@@anantmalik I don't like apple but I think you're just wrong saying they rigged the results on purpose since they didn't use the most powerful variant of snapdragon, they can't just use it there isn't much else to say
Multi core 15-16000 for X Elite
yes, sure, they should've compared 3000+$ laptops to 1200+$ laptops.
@@anantmaliklol you have absolutely no clue wtf you’re taking about hahaha
TOPS (Trillions of Operations per Second) is a NPU (Neural Processing Unit) measure only, and does only apply to Machine Learning related stuff, and not the entire SoC
also, the TOPS measure is a terrible way of comparing what are essentially different technologies (as is any frequency based measure). We need benchmarks for this, and we still don’t have them
I’m sorry to break it to you, but the X Elite is not an M series competitor. Maybe a second gen can deliver better numbers, but based on what even seen only a blind fanboy won’t see it. If you still doubt me , just watch the video again and look for the MacBook’s numbers
Qualcomm have a team of 8 engineers working on Linux support for the SoC - including Vulcan drivers for the GPU. Most of their drivers have already been merged into the mainline Linux kernel, but things like the GPU have not yet been merged.
The Qualcomm Linux team can't guarantee that OEMs will support Linux, but the SoC itself will.
The Laptops boot off standard UEFI, so no need for any fancy image flashing like the Pi - should just be a case of throwing in a Fedora usb and installing Linux like you would on any normal x86_64 machine.
Hopefully the OLED screen on the Surface laptop has a high refresh rate - the MBP has a high refresh rate but very high latency (noticeable while gaming, for what little games are supported on macOS+Crossover). Cannot wait to see how games perform with FEX and Proton!
Gnome has fancy trackpad gestures like MacOS, really want to see if the ergonomics of the Surface laptop trackpad with its haptic trackpad rivals the MBP.
I'll replace my MBP with a Surface for "work and play" if Linux support is great and the laptop is within 90% the feel of the MBP.
Legit, I'm watching this channel and all the information about these laptops specifically so I can get one and replace windows with Linux.
Cosmic DE being made by POP OS has even more advanced gestures than gnome. Plus it's made in rust so it's already faster than a majority of current DEs. Snapdragon chips plus pop os cosmic is gonna be a wild ride.
@@Saurabhkumar-bn3dl :excite: Linux is so damn cool, can't believe it's has such a small market share
the surface has a 120hz display
i'd look at the Lenovo Yoga 7x and Thinkpad 14s gen 6 before the surface tbh. The Yoga has an amazing 3k 90 Hz 1000 nits OLED display and a large 70 Wh battery (surface has 56 Wh) but the downside is only 3 USB-C 40 gbps ports
The Thinkpad on the other hand has better ports but a smaller battery (58 Wh) but also has the option to go down to a 1200p IPS display that'd suck down a lot less power (albeit with awful colors, only 45% NTSC) with also some other thinkpad goodies such as 64 GB of RAM at most and a replaceable battery
and lenovo has an amazing track record with supporting linux, especially on the thinkpads
@@deneguil-1618 for me the track pad of the surface has me interested.
I love my MBP track pad - it's so good I will use it over an external mouse when I'm using the device portably.
By comparison, when I had my Dell XPS, I'd avoid the track pad at all costs.
The other thing is the speakers and the speakers on the Dell were total garbage.
I often put on RUclips videos while cooking or making coffee in the morning, the two laptops were not even comparable.
The surface has announced a track pad using the same technology as the MBP, can't talk for the speakers yet but I'm excited to get one in my hands to see if it's any good. Only if it supports Linux though, ofc
This channel should be 1 million . Too valuable
Usually under mill channels are way better than over mil - no cockiness, no bs, no reviews disguised as ads, no coke powered energy
Xcode will probably have a blast running on Prisma... 😃
Because of their Benchmarks, Knowledge and top (former Apple) people who have designed the X Elite Oryon series, Apple released their M4 earlier! My Jetstream v2.2 inside Chrome says 437467. I would be happy, getting a passive cooled mini PC with X Elite Oryon x1E 84-100
Great! Waiting for WSL2 test!
I dont really care about performance. I just want a good battery life and good thermals without hearing fan noise from the moment I boot it.
Then do not buy laptops, but real computers.
@@LeicaM11 what is this real computer with a good battery life you speak of?
What makes me wanna buy a mini Snapdragon Elite X instead of Mac Studio M4 Max/Ultra (if it launches) is the said ability to connect a discrete GPU to boost performance even more.
Interesting to see about these Multithreaded tests, something tells me the M3 is thermal limited since it's the only passive cool computer in this bunch.
This has probably been requested as well, but please confirm that Recall can be completely 100% shut off. :)
ikr
Even if you think you shut it off, I won't be surprised if a new malware turns it back on to steal information.
Can you test Davinci Resolve / Editing Programs on these Laptops? This would be sooo helpful. Thank you in advance. :)
It'll be very interesting to see if Qualcomm makes a "Pro" model with more CPU/GPU cores and larger memory cache to directly compete against the Pro and Max versions of Apple's desktop SoC's.
Thanks so much Alex for the work done. Keep it up.
If only MS during its keynote had some technology to artificially remove reverb intelligently….
There’s so many big claims right now, great for us consumers. I hope these are great as a Mac user, I’d love to see Apple forced to respond. I’d love to get my hands on one and toss Phoronix test suite on it.
I keep having the Snapdragon dev kit in my mind. I really want it. Seems good for the price and it will be using the best possible version of X Elite. Arm is the future.
Now I hope Valve will make a native Arm app of Steam for Windows 11 Arm, like they did for Apple Silicon.
"You should always be sceptical about the stuff you see on the Internet, including this video" -- but... does it mean I should be sceptical about being sceptical, so maybe not being sceptical? My brain hurts.
Scepception
trust everything and everyone, basically
Thank you for pointing out how blatantly biased the snapdragon paid advertising is, and how the bench tests are intentionally skewed
Really curious how it running CAD software like Solidworks, etc.
It is interesting when engineers can have lightweight laptops with long battery life.
Thanks
So, I went through their pdf file, they only show difference in the %, not actual numbers. Feels more like marketing piece than actual, proper lab , objective report.
From what I could kind a research, an AMD Ryzen 9 8945HS would be better in many scenarios. Compared to what I could find vs Intel Ultra core i7 155h.
So, please, when you get your Snapdragon laptop, if you can have AMD laptop too.
Using the manufactureres benchmarks should only be done if no other sources have done testing, especially Apple often has very vague and downright misleading graphs in their presentations. I think the most interesting benefit to the X elite is the battery life, if it has better performance per Watt then the actual peak power matters less, especially in a laptop.
Loving your channel, Alex.
Glad you enjoy it!
This CPU is doing really well... in marketing. Impressive for something that isn't even out yet!
X Elite base Model is 16 GB RAM and upgradable storage. Apple does not.
16GB is absolut minimum if you want to run windows
My 8GB intel core i7 11th gen can handle most tasks well. I keep 100+ tabs open in Chrome, keep xls word and visual studio open all the time. And I don't see any issue.
@@furTron 8gb works fine in windows just like it does in MacOS.
I’m willing to bet all the native ARM software which comes to these chips will not have feature parity with their x86 versions. It will be a fragmented mess.
Hopefully some competition in the ARM PC space will push Apple to actually sell a broader selection of CPU/RAM combinations and maybe temper their prices a bit. I have a Macbook M1 Pro and it's great. but I'm also buying a Lenovo X Elite-based laptop because I don't need it to mop the floor with an M3 CPU, just be faster than my other Windows laptop (which it is) and cost less than half of what a similarly spec'd Macbook does (which it does). Comparing the two without taking into account the price difference is only half the story
Finally a more reasonable comment! Price difference matters too
@@delosei7332 my M1 MacBook Pro cost over £1700 and it only has 16gb ram and 512gb SSD. The Lenovo is £1350 for 32gb ram and 1tb SSD. A similarly spec'd MacBook at the time was £2400 - I shudder to think what an M3 of that spec is. Now, while £1350 is not less than half of £2400, I'll admit, it *is* a _huge_ chunk of change. Enough that you could get a good 4k screen, desk, chair, keyboard and mouse and still have a few pounds left over for the same as just the MacBook. Hopefully, this will start making apple look at their pricing a bit
And Mediatek is coming too next year with even more competitive pricing
@@viktorbaresic4180 that's great, I didn't know that. Competition is good
@@CaptainToadUK It's because Qualcomm-WoA exclusivity deal is expiring.
Thanks for giving the full full rundown, Alex. It will be interesting to see how the M4 machines compare to these as well. I am also curious how the Mac machines will do Running Windows with the latest version of Windows for ARM and the Prism translation layer. The team that Qualcom recently bought originally came from Apple so I wouldn't be surprised if improvements to Windows for ARM for the Qualcom chip might translate to Apple Silicon as well. Would be funny if the best laptop for (ARM) Windows was a Mac. Broadcom said something about working with MS for VMWare Fusion Pro 13 (which, if you believe Broadcom, is now free for personal use).
Maybe if Boot Camp comes back, this will be a reality again. Apple said it depends on Microsoft, and my guess is that they won’t sign Windows on MacBook at least until they have an equally as good processor the compete with the M series, otherwise people will buy MacBooks for Windows lol. This was actually a common thing back when Intel Macs didn’t suck, and the MacBook was famous for being Microsoft employee’s favorite computer.
Judging by the numbers, the X Elite is not it. Maybe a 2nd gen with a bit of luck.
@@brunocastro7858 I am not expecting Boot Camp to make a return. Apple doesn't need it (it was first created when MS computers had an overpowering share of the PC market). However Parallels runs Windows on ARM fine and now quoted from VMWare website - "VMware Fusion Pro is more powerful than ever with Windows 11 support on the latest Macs with Apple silicon, including a built-in “Get Windows” feature and full 3D graphics support." To support "Get Windows", Microsoft has to sign off and have drivers. I am curious, however, how well Prism support will work in this configuration given the Qualcom teams providence.
Synthetic benchmarks show that even the base M4 is faster than the X Elite. These snapdragons will not be able to compete with the M4 Pro and M4 Max.
Considering that the people behind the silicon where the key in making the A and M series for Apple I expect great things here.
More cores does not always mean faster across different platforms unless they are the same cpu
It looks good enough! Especially for a 1st gen product.
A bit disappointed about the fan noise being at edge of noticeable on the Surface laptop, even if the figures presented seem reasonable when maxing out a 12 cores CPU.
It will heavily vary based on model and cooling system. Some laptops will be quieter and better cooled than others
These are benchmark programs and they run at their peak performance to show numbers.
You wouldn't need that full performance for your day-to-day tasks
@@delosei7332 fan noise at full load matters for me because I run LLMs locally, it's also quite relevant for video games. But for productivity, aside from video editing renders it needs to be put in perspective I agree.
Okay the surface has a 12 core cpu, made in a 4nm process and a 66 Wh battery.
The Macbook Air 15" has a 8 core cpu, made in a 3nm process and a 66.5 Wh battery.
They don't mention, how the tests were done, but they claim, the Surface shall have longer battery life? How so? It seems counter-intuitive.
Videos like this are why I love your channel. No nonsense comparisons with facts. Can’t wait to see real tests! Thank you!
Graphics performance for the X Elite is a tad disappointing for me. Qualcomm supposedly showed how Baldur’s Gate 3 was playable on the X Elite but now upon release it’s just 15fps at 1080p? What gives?
This real world testing thing is so true. Just got a new M1 16gb and it beat my 5600x 32gb 980 evo desktop pc in almost every nodeJS installation and build times.
The Snapdragon X elite allows the user all the benefits of Apple silicon without the requirement of signing away your soul to Apple. That alone is game changing.
So nice. Cant wait to get an arm surface and sell my m2. I really missed Windows on my Laptops for the lasst 4 years.
The biggest news is that Microsoft is selling these products with 16 gigs minimum. Apple is mad by selling laptops with 8 gigs of ram.
Why would they do that? Why would they do the same thing many major companies have been caught doing? Seems impossible. I mean the review embargo that is there until the day the product is already on sale os just for fun. Paying a new benchmark team to exclusively release info on your product is just how business should be done. It's not like a company would ever accept money and partnership, and tilt their tests towards the direction of their bank account... never been done in the history of capitalism. These guys said they were good guys who just want to be unbiased after all. No one needs to wait for the real reviews and benchmarks from established suites. Also don't look at any of the leaked benchmarks.. :-)
I am working on m1 13 inch MacBook Pro for about a year and I can say that arm cpu is ok for overall DevOps tasks and the battery is great for long meetings. I can wait to see how windows on arm revolutionise the industry like apple did in 2020.
revolutionise the industry ? Apple already did
nah, it won’t
@@seanelias6478 At least revolutionize the windows laptop marker
In the current state it's so much more about optimizing than it is about raw power
Handbrake just released an update for Apple Silicon and it’s MUCH faster and more efficient when using p cores. So I would hold off on this result.
When you receive the new pcs with Snapdragon, please also do a Stable Diffusion test to see the power of the NPU. For now I'm undecided whether to go with Snapdragon or stay with the new Intel/AMD CPUs with NPUs. The advantage of Intel/AMD is that you can add an Nvidia GPU, which gives good power in Stable Diffusion.
Thanks
I think MS and Qualcomm are disingenuous with stats that flatter the X Elite. Obviously, that is what OEMs do, but in this case, they have gone to extremes to blast Apple. It does appear that their anger at how Apple has outdone them over the last 3.5 years has risen to the surface (!).
Qualcomm/MS stated they never compared the new M4 as it was in an iPad (obviously they didn't say it so nicely) and instead, they use a fanless MB Air competing with X Elite laptops with fans. Maybe the MB Pro 14 M3 would have been a fairer comparison...but maybe the metrics would have looked a lot worse?
Ignoring price, we could also say that the M3 Pro is the rival to the Surface Laptop as both are middle skews, and the base M3 Macs are rivals for the lowest X Elite, and the M3 Max a rival to the highest skew (only seen in the Galaxy Book4 Edge ATM). Then again the M4 will be the actual competitor to the X Elite, arriving 3-4 months after the eventual release of X Elite laptops.
anger risen to the SURFACE:)
How are fans a fairer comparison point than price? Having 3 SKUs means nothing, that like saying you can compare the middle lines between BMW and Toyota. A consumer will look at what they can get for their money. In Canada, the 16GB/512GB SL7 13" is $450 cheaper than the equivalent M3 Air, so if anything it's skewed the other way. Also if you look at the single thread graph, the SL7 and M3 Air make the same amount of noise. The SL7 does make 7dB more when under multi threaded load but how often will that be the happening and if that is a big workload for you, isn't it better to have the 30% extra performance in exchange for the noise?
@AZisk
Qualcomm made it seem that X-Elite should be compared to the regular M3.
Clock for clock and core for core, Andy is right (all sources are below) The below benchmark is the bottom SKU X-Elite (X1E78100) which is clocked at 3.42 GHz. Single thread is 2427 and multithreaded is 14254.
A 10 core M1 Pro has a single core 2378 and multicore 12216 @ 3.2GHz.
Remember that the X Elite is 4nm vs the 5nm of the M1. Hence the X Elite can run at a slightly higher clock than the M1 and have significantly better battery life than the M3 compared in this video.
I also forgot to mention that Apple use big.LITTLE architecture and Qualcomm don't in order to make their benchmarks look better. In spite of that, Qualcomm say that they have their own methods to keep power consumption under control, despite performance cores (which is done very well).
The M2 Pro 12 core at 3.49 GHz (hair higher clock) does 2645 14253. This is also 5nm.
The main difference between M1 & M2 base is a 0.3 GHz higher clock. As you can see, a 4 nm X Elite is equal to a 5nm M1 single core and M2 Pro multithreaded.
This is however unfair on Qualcomm because they're competing with 'cheated' Apple benchmarks as well.
browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/5553440
browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-pro-16-inch-2021-apple-m1-max
The reason that the X Elite looks underwhelming vs M2 and M3 core for core is that Apple have significantly increased clock speeds at the expense of thermals and battery life each generation.
We went from a 3.2 GHz base M1 Air to a 4.05 GHz base M3 Air. They went from 5nm to 3nm, however they're seeing diminishing returns from a smaller transistor size.
Each generation, Apple silicon runs hotter and has inferior battery life.
To a certain extent, the chipset devs have gone to a willy waving performance to boast the highest geekbench score.
In a thin and light laptop, I would actually go with the lowest X Elite Sku and I'm curious so see if it yields any fanless laptops.
I actually think that the best generation to get X Elite is the next. The second generation of a chipset design is typically when it seriously matures and secondly, they simply increase the clock at expense of battery life/thermals to eke £££ and prestige from that same architecture.
The big benefit barring battery and thermals (if you buy the low TDP version) is that the silicon is half the cost of Intel's at wholesale.
We need Nvidia, AMD, Mediatek etc to release ARM chips next year to increase competition and pass the cost savings to consumers.
Even with the higher than expected launch costs, the X Elite are basically giving you 2-4 extra cores for the same price (hundreds if you include RAM and SSD). Given it costs 2-3 times less than its Intel equivalent for the manufacturers, it can be better.
Why all these prerelease benchmarks? Just deliver the things. They have been talking about x Elite forever it seems. Right?
Love this video, you made it clear, everyone needs wait till we see creators actually test this live, great job, thanks.
As I pointed out, xelite is compared to Apple's worst CPU, and ignore CPU's that beat it and nearly match it's efficiency.
Great job here
What else did you expect?
I knew this will happen ever since I heard Qualcomm acquired Nuvia.
Nuvia was founded by people who designed an Apple M1. The best chip design minds out there.
They knew they're just too valuable and Apple couldn't pay them enough. So they set their own company and sold it for billions of dollars to Qualcomm.
Best move ever!
It's just that people, even the tech insiders were still largely oblivious to just how much superior arm became to x86.
Very bad sign that we didn't see any "emulated" x86 games benchmarks on those snapdragon x a month before releasing. Big disappointment to expect
Limited speeds: Some ARM processors have limited speeds
Scheduling instructions: Scheduling instructions can be difficult with ARM processors
Software disadvantage: Windows on ARM has a software disadvantage compared to traditional Windows because most applications and games are not Arm-native
Strict load/store architecture: ARM is a strict load/store architecture where every instruction is fixed-width and either accesses memory or performs a computation on registers
Performance: ARM-based chips from Qualcomm fall short in terms of performance
M3 has only 4 performance cores, it would be really strange if a 10-core couldn't do better. On the other hand if they are comparing notebooks with similar price range that's kind of fair...
A little odd to zoom quickly past the real-world results for various popular software at around the 6m mark. I dont really care about synthetics, I want to see comparisons in software people use. The browser randomly opening tabs and other things like hitting a lot of webpage, or office app comparison - that's more important to me. And games, too - 1080p30 at medium will likely be common reports.
1:57 it seems misleading of them to colour the black m3 air all the way to the "sound floor" because it implies the air is actually making the same noise, except for the peak at 26.4, which goes above the sound floor- so did the Air grow a fan guys? Not a great data presentation
The Macbook air doesnt even have a fan, blows my mind to see its thermal capabilities
It gets really warm. I could probably see the Snapdragon X Pro be passively cooled
How is this a confirmation video when you a reading a report from a pair source, a source that is only a few months old?
Tragic!
Great battery life is all i need in window laptops with no fan noise, you can keep the performance
Lunar Lake are going to be some big changes coming, esp. in IPC and battery life. I'm a desktop guy, so I will wait for the counterpart to Lunar Lake, called Arrow Lake. 1.8 nanometer, Power Via backside power, Power Islands, Ribbon FET, and MORE. Intel has own fabs, will produce wafers for others too, and owns industry’s first High Numerical Aperture (High NA) Extreme Ultraviolet (EUV) lithography system. The new tool provides the ability to dramatically improve resolution and feature scaling for the next generation of processors, enabling Intel Foundry to continue process leadership beyond Intel 18A.💪
I don't understand why they didn't tested with an AMD CPU laptop as well.
As long as the price matches the performance it's good.
For all I care about it can be as strong as an 8th gen core i5 and it would be enough, the efficiency gains are what I'm looking forward to
All the X Elite laptops have fans, and the only comparison benchmarks are to fanless MBA... Price-wise the Lenovo / Asus laptops look very tempting (32GB / 1TB SSD / OLED for the price of MBA 15 with 8 GB of RAM), but "whiny" minifans would kill it for me.
Warning, ASUS warranty and rma process is quite painful and borderline scammy. Watch the gamers nexus video for more details about Asus.
I don’t think fans would be “whiny”. Probably would be barely audible if balanced well.
If macbooks costing 2-3 times as much don't come with fans, then that's not a valid argument.
Fans aren't an issue. Fan curves can be. If the fans spin low enough you won't hear them at all. All MBP's have fans
Well done calling out the naysayers. It's not going to be perfect but obviously Qualcomm is not going to be completely embarrassed when it releases. Curious why Speedometer goes to the M3 by 40% when other single thread performance seems closer to a 15% gap. Overall, definitely a big step up for Windows and a solid first gen effort. Looking forward to my SL7 preorder. Also worth calling this out on the battery slide (12): "Anecdotally, the connected standby time on the new new Surface Laptop is fantastic, showing a drop of just 1% of its battery in a standard 8-9 hour overnight closed-lid scenario."
SQL Server apparently isn't coming to ARM. Someone said at Build that "they'll talk about that sometime in the future but it's not on their roadmap today". SSMS presumably will work through the Prism layer, but it doesn't have ARM on the roadmap either. My guess is both will be dependent on sales and developer outcry. Since Intel is releasing "lunar lake" in Q3 in a lot of machines, these WoA machines "may" not mean much long term (hope I'm wrong).
Why not M4?
My thing is these are all laptops. When will we have APIs for all the new Copilot stuff to use our RTX 4000 series GPUs? Or do we need to wait for the next gen of Intel and AMD processors to have a NPU chiplet?
It'll be interesting to see a review of an Intel core ultra vs M3 vs SD X Elite.
Core ultra 5 or 7?
@@crestofhonor2349 7
@@crestofhonor2349 7
Qualcomm makes the same mistake again by forcing cellular modem into x
apple has shown that most buyers doesn't care about builtin cellular modem
the transistors are better used for caches to improve core performance
Snapdragon X Elite ❤Windows on arm
Why did they test the Elite against M3? That's not a direct comparison. The X Plus is the chip that aligns with M3. The Elite should be tested against M3 Max. Clearly, they're trying to manufacture results.
Performance
ARM processors may not be as powerful as other processors and may have lower performance at the same clock speed. This limits their ability to handle more demanding applications, such as high-end gaming and intensive computational tasks.
Multitasking
ARM processors may not be as efficient at multitasking as other processors.
Wonder why they didn't plot the battery life for the macbook air? Suspicious 😁
Nice HW numbers, however, lets wait for how the x86 emulation works...
My understanding is that Intel Core Ultra 7 is manufactured with Intel 4 node. M3 is TSMC N3B. It is claimed that both are comparable in terms of die size, power, and performance.
X Elite is manufactured with TSMC 4 nm, which should be cheaper to make. Hopefully we customers can see the saving soon.
I've been seeing your videos for weeks and i'm subscribed. Would love to see real world tests with the new machines and the Snapdragon CPU's inside. Can't wait!!
Looks promising. Really hope the translation layer works well.
Given these scores, it'll be interesting to see what market the reviewers think the OEMs are targeting with these new devices. Are the OEMs going to address the good, not great, single core performance? Or are they just going to pretend Apple doesn't exist? (The same way Apple likes to pretend that other companies don't exist.)
Put this inside a Framework.