Pixii - A Monochrome Rangefinder with built in colors
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- With the Pixii Rangefinder you can capture Monochrome 16-bit raw DNGs as well as color images in the same camera. In other words, you don’t need to buy an expensive monochrome camera or resort to JPEG for the B&W experience. Read more about it here: pixii.fr/monoc...
Find a used cameras at MPB. And if you do, you also help support this channel by using the links below:
MPB US, prf.hn/l/aWYE4wX
MPB EU, prf.hn/l/EJAjb9e
MPB UK, prf.hn/l/2M3nn4j
Want to buy me a coffee?
www.buymeacoff...
As mentioned in the video, during 2022 I was partly an ambassador for Pixii cameras. I wasn't employed by them, I was allowed to say anything I wanted and received no financial payment. But I should definitely be considered biased to the brand :)
I did however make two videos before that which you can find here:
Pixii Review Part 1,
• The Pixii Rangefinder ...
Pixii Review Part 2,
• The Pixii Rangefinder ...
Find a used cameras at MPB. And if you do, you also help support this channel by using the links below:
MPB US, prf.hn/l/aWYE4wX
MPB EU, prf.hn/l/EJAjb9e
MPB UK, prf.hn/l/2M3nn4j
As mentioned in the video I was at the time of recording a Pixii ambassador. If you follow this channel you know that the Pixii and I was pretty much a match made in heaven. Pick out all the best parts from all the cameras I have reviewed over the years and you can clearly see that the Pixii is by far the one that ticks the most boxes. So when they asked, how could I say no? Im super happy about the time I got to work with them. I received no financial compensation during the time. It was all about the fun of being BTS.
They never said anything about what I can or can’t say about the Pixii or any other camera. But given that I actually am a real journalist, with a degree, I can no longer make ”reviews” about the Pixii. I will still say it as it is, just like before. Both positives and negatives. But I will be sure to point out that its not a ”review”.
On the upside, I will be able to fill you in on the latest developments and get a glimpse into the company’s future. And best of all, add my own suggestions to the team at Pixii.
I respect your ability to give objective views so I don't think you being an ambassador for this company will change this. I've watched your other videos on this camera as well, and am tempted to get one myself at a later date (when I have the money). But I have to say the lack of a mechanical shutter is surprising to me. I know you said that you didn't really notice it (and showed photos where it had no effect) but now that it's been a bit longer on has there been any shots that have been disturbed by the omission?
I ask because one of my more favorite shots recently is of a bee buzzing by some flowers and getting the wings till in midair and I didn't know if it would be possible for this camera to capture as cleanly.
(I have some other concerns as well mainly around longevity coming from the removal of an SD card to internal storage and what happens when this storage wares, but modern flash storage is impressively resilient)
Love to see some journalism on what's really going on with the farmers but I know that's a touchy subject
I dont think a bee would be an issue. Haven't tried though. The only time its been an issue is one old fluorescent tube in a very old house I no longer live in. Other than that, LEDs, fluorescent, bulbs, its all been fine.
Regarding the memory they will be able to change it for you, the same way any other company would if he SD-port failed, which is probably more likely :)
I have plenty of SD cards that I have had for +10 years and they still work. The only memories that have ever failed on me have been newer SD cards physically breaking from being constantly removed and inserted.
Hello Mattias, Great video and congrats for the pixii ambasador.
The Epson R-D1 have a Monochrome mode, have you tried it when you have one ?
@@pierrebeutier6033 Thanks!
No, the epson can only shoot B&W jpegs, so I never tried it.
That camera is definitely something to desire. The person behind the camera though...always the most important factor. I'll admit I mostly come here for your images Matthias. I learn from them.
Like any real rangefinder, it’s beautiful, it’s desirable, it’s expensive, and it’s worth it. It’s also not for everyone, and that’s fine.
Exactly this 🥇
Not even all that expensive compared to the latest top-of-the-line cameras from Nikon and Sony. Yes, those cameras have “more features”… but as I like to say, simplicity IS a feature!
@@jlwilliams so much this! My S1R is feature rich almost to a fault. I shook with a lot of the features disabled because they get in my way.
pixii obviously made a lot of good decisions. One of them was choosing you as an ambassador. Sometimes magic just happens. love your work! 👌❤️
🙏
To be honest, I'm struggling to see the difference with this, and converting a colour RAW to monochrome in a RAW editor.
A true monochrome camera, I can understand. The removal of the Bayer (or other) colour filter results in higher sharpness. That advantage offsets the disadvantage of having baked in black and white only RAW.
But, if you still have a physical bayer filter present, and are using an algorithm in camera to define a black and white RAW, that’s no different to the RAW editor doing this in post.
I’m not entirely the workflow simplification is enough of a simplification, to justify the loss of flexibility.
For me anyway. Other’s may find the workflow fun, and inspiring, and that’s what leads to great photography.
Here's the difference. In a normal Bayer flow, the BW conversion happens AFTER the mosaic color algorithm...From what I've read what the Pixii is doing is to look at the raw demosaiced file and since the influence of the Bayer filter is well defined, they can infer the quantity of light that hit a defined pixel. Thus giving the ability to interpret the response of the underlying monochrome sensor. It kind of feels like what Foveon does with their Mono conversions in some respects.
@@patrickjclarke Thanks for that clarification. Makes a bit more sense to me now. Quite a clever implementation.
The number one reason to use a monochrome camera imo is the workflow. Everything else is just a bonus effect. That’s why converting can never replace it, unless I shoot jpeg, which won’t happen.
The pixii advantage is only in the workflow. Even that is arguable If you've your raw workflow dialed in.
As you say, technically what they're doing in camera is no different from monochrome conversion from raw. It may well be the case that some camera makes so in camera conversion from jpg, but that's really because lack of demand. After all, if the conversion pack has a setting for "bubble gum", would you expect more care given to the b&w profiles?
Be it in camera conversion as in the Pixii or your in post from raw, the source data is the same. In both cases, the per pixel luminance value is already behind one if r, g, or b filters. The light loss and spectral shaping is the same and already baked in.
Now that I think about it a bit, the same in camera conversion is probably a viable DIY project. This starting point is a Magic Lantern supported Canon DSLR.
@@patrickjclarke No. It's no different from monochrome conversion in post from raw. It's a artificial differentiation driven by marketing. The physical reality is that each photo sensor is sited behind one of r, g, or b color filter. The corresponding luminance value presented to in camera conversion or post raw is the same.
I'm really happy that Pixii put up a page explaining at least a little how they do what they are doing, and congrats on being an Ambassador! This has me really considering one, and not to take the place of my M240, but to jump in have fun with a very unique camera and seemingly open-minded company that is thinking more like Sigma than Leica. :P
Any chance we can get them to put up a couple sample Mono DNG's on the website to play with?
Very good ideea with dng monochrome samples!
It’s coming, if not there already 😀
@@gearreallydoesntmatter awesome! what a great ambassador! :P :D
They are doing a great job in innovation here ! Other manufacturer should really take a look at this !
Glad to see a French company innovate successfully. Also, happy to see you as their ambassador ! 👏
Ah, if I had the money, I will probably buy one, especially at that price (which is fair compared to the rather crazy expensive concurrency) but life isn't on my side these days.
This is a pretty tempting feature; thanks for the breakdown, Mattias! Also: don't Foveon sensors count as true monochrome cameras as well? Would be a good addition to the list of choices ;c)
So does the Nikon 9. I’m sure there are others, film for example. Wanted to speak “in general” :)
Ach, Mattias, I have to be using the Pixii again. I had been off with other cameras and just got the X2D - very nice! - and see the Pixii and the X2D as a workable pair to carry without being burdened. Both companies have tuned their Sony sensors very well and I will be going mono on the PIxii for a while with the CV Nokton II. I'll try the Jupiter 8 and Amotal, too, of course. And, yes, I have an A2572 in the pipeline. I see that as a much-needed upgrade and a leveller. Pixii is going to be really kicking some butt now. ;o) Mono beckons.
Congratulations on being an ambassador for them. I hope to get my very own in the not too distant future.
Thanks 🙏
If you are into B&W photography I suggest joining the #MonochromeAugust challenge: www.dearsusan.net/2022/08/05/1120-monochromeaugust-pixii-challenge/
Pixii must be a *very* special company to get Mattias as an ambassador. It's like when Richard Donner got Marlon Brando to be in Superman (1978), or Tim Burton got Jack Nicholson to be in Batman (1989).
Very kind of you :)
Today cost me some bucks and saved me some bucks, I was about to buy a Canon R5C, because of the overheating problem of shooting 8k on my R5, a new firmware update has solved that problem. I also use my R with the Voigtlander 40 2.8 with the helicoid M to Rf adapter, shooting monochrome jpegs, It make a very low profile 46mp Ibis cam but is still big, Voila this review- answer to my prayers- small monochrome rangefinder- money on way to France.
Hard to understand the shade being thrown at either Mattias and/or Pixii in the comments... He leads the video with a disclosure of his ambassador status, says not to take this as a review, and then proceeds to not give a review, but instead breakdown a feature that many people are interested in. Nowhere does he say that it's better than a Leica or that it's "worth" the money (that's pretty subjective and depends on what someone wants/values), just that he likes the monochrome mode better than converting RAW/shooting JPEG.
Anyway, it's a straight-shooting video that gave me the info/perspective I was after.
Howdy watched your old videos on sigma again. Miss gunpowder 😕 happy summer
I see a notification from Mattias, I click and like first. Never worry about if it is going to be good or not.
I hope it lives up to the expectations 👍
But one day he will say something Cray Cray and then you have to change it 😂
True that
@@gearreallydoesntmatter it left me with blue balls 😂😂 happy summer.
@@unbroken1010 It is what it is. Life is a risk! 🤷🏽♂️🤣
Wow! I knew about Pixiis (Pixies? Pixiies?) but I never heard about this monochrome mode. Suddenly the camera is ten times more tempting! Thanks for this video!
Its a feature alright 😀
Congrats on the ambassadorship! The pixii is definitely an interesting camera.
🙏
Mattias, as you do have a voice in the camera world, how about you write to Contax and see if you could persuade them to make a digital Contax II to give full frame range finder users an alternative to Leica. What do you think…? in effect we could then have a in family camera to use our Voigtlander and Zeiss M glass on.
Fascinating review. Could you comment on this vs the Sigma DPm monochrome techniques like Blue Channel?
So you don't have the option to play with the color sliders (channels) in LR for more monochrome depth?
No it’s a real monochrome image, you need to use physical filters.
Love to see my lens represented. I’ve shot at least 200 rolls of film on that thing, and I’m still in love. Not a lot of talk about 40mm, let alone the nokton classic 40mm, but I think it’s the perfect focal length, and that lens is so characterful.
I like the title. Almost makes me think like those color filters give you a bracketed exposure, being forced to use whatever combination or RGB they use internally.
An EVF turned to monochrome is an awesome experience to shoot color photos too, as you can focus just light more easily.
For me turning an image to b&w is often just a fix for messed up colors. I rarely do it up front or like the results.
Wow the Olympus BW jpeg looks stunning
Good update. I have a question: the Leica M10 monochrome is very usable up to 50000 ISO. What is the max usable ISO ( take that to mean “good image quality“) on the Pixii in monochrome mode? Is it higher than the color mode?
I haven’t tried yet. I have never needed to go higher than 12600, which looks good.
Thinking of attaching my 1964 Takumar via Adapter "M42 to Leica M" to such a Pixii. Do you think this should/could work?
Cool video btw, very tempting 😀
You won’t be able to focus using rangefinder, but other than that it should work.
I might be convinced to sell my M typ 246 for the pixii. Maybe.
You mentioned its different than just a bw profile (like acros in fuji x100v) but I’m not sure I understand hows that different.
There is no profile applied. The DNG is monochrome already before any profile. Thats why the color is not there and can't be added in post.
With a fuji you have a regular color raw file and the profile just turns off the saturation.
okay, I haven't seen such feature to be advertised as a main sale point. I could make bw jpgs with my old canon 6d, in camera - what changed? are there some other kind of photosensitive pixels? what is the difference between converting color photo to bw on post?
The difference is that these are raw files, they have no in camera "picture profile" or adjustments applied like a B&W jpeg will.
The difference between this and converting is that it would require more than just a simple conversion. To achieve the same exact results takes a bit of work. But first and foremost its about the committed workflow and the experience of shooting B&W without the possibility to convert or having to resort to a precooked jpeg.
4th method, shoot raw on a dslr/hybrid in IR, then convert to B&W.
Thank you for the video - very intriguing camera. Question: The viewfinder only goes down to 0.7m distance? What about M mount lenses with shorter close focus distances?
It’s the same like all Leica-M mount cameras. After 70cm you have to use the scale.
Uhh? So it is math only? What‘s new? Sounds like a marketing swindle to me?! I would suggest Sigma cameras. They make pysics: google for Foveon sensor.
Lol, Google Sigmas foveon cameras and you find my channel. But thanks anyway.
I have a lot of GAS for one of these Pixiis! But for now I settled for an M9 at a good price (with repaired sensor) to get my first rangefinder experience. I love the Pixii's software updates and the ability for the user to adjust the rangefinder mechanism easy. I think this camera will be a classic. Maybe I can get one used one day.
The M9 is a fine camera, so you should be fine for now :)
And how do they compare with the monochrome pics of the Nikon Df????
In the original edit of the video I actually make that comparison. They kinda remind me of each other.
Thank you, great and informative as ever. Is the music Deodato ?🙏🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
Mini Vandals
The ONLY thing holding me back from one of these is the electronic shutter. I use flash quite a bit. Been exclusively shooting analog M’s for quite some time and as much as I love Leica, these new digitalis are just soooooooooo expensive. I too find that shooting raw files and then converting them just messes up my whole workflow, I hate it. Maybe I can learn to not want to use flash… who knows.
You could try an LED with your current camera and see if that is enough. They are becoming very popular even among DSLR shooters. Not the same punch but they are convenient.
Hi i watching all your video and vlogs i love it
But i struggling!!
i decided to bought one of them used camera Fujifilm x70 or LX 100( firs one)
Photo mostly family vacation almost jpg format and witch one easily use menu
Thank you for the answer
Best regards
Donnie Noire
I just don't find it very sexy to look at. But I know some people do.
I think most don’t care what their camera looks like.
The review is provocative, and that soundtrack is FUNKY!
Not sure about provocative but 100% agree on the funk :)
@@gearreallydoesntmatter Provocative in that it made me give the Pixii a second (and third) look
It works better than other brands.
You mentioned in the intro video that larger lenses obstruct the pixii 2nd RF mechanism, do you know (approx.) from what diameter this becomes an issue?
Pourquoi on ne trouve pas une video en français
Huh? You can easily convert raw to monochrome. 1:29
Lol, it won’t become a monochrome raw file. And it would miss the point completely.
My virtual penny jar is filling slowly but in time a Pixii will be mine. Maybe by the time I'm ready there'll be a FF Pixii mk.2....a guy can dream
This is the Pixii mk2 :)
You're my go to guy when I want to see a review of a camera, even though this is not a review, it still covers all the important features of the camera, thanks!!
Great, something I was blissfully unaware of until a minute ago is going to consume me.
I wish it was MUCH more affordable.
It most likely will go up in price and there are no cheaper rangefinder’s being made. The rangefinder focusing mechanism alone cost about €1000 to make. So it is what it is.
I'm a little confused as to how this monochrome mode is supposed to work. The sensor is physically a Bayer pattern sensor. You cannot overcome that hardware colour filter array because the light passes through those filters before capture. You can try to compensate with software but I don't see how this system is any different to converting a normal colour RAW in post with a good black and white profile. The page talks about "the inverse equation" but the process is the same as a any software conversation of a RAW file. Aside from the convenience of having the profile baked into the file preview.
It's still a cool feature and the output is very nice but I can't help but feel the marketing is a little exaggerated. Unless I'm completely missing something... Haha
You are missing that it’s not just a baked in profile.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter But how is it any different in result to converting a raw file in Lightroom or Capture One with a good profile? I can't see any evidence that Pixii are doing anything unique in the processing pipeline.
A RAW file contains all the data captured by the sensor. Converting that to black and white in a RAW processors is basically doing what Pixii claim makes their output unique.
Like I said in the video, you most likely can replicate it if you have the time, it needs more work than a “simple conversion”. But that’s missing the point of a monochrome camera all together imo.
I don’t care about the image quality, I’m after the workflow. But I’m still happy that I get better B&W files with zero effort.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter I guess so. I think my issue is that Pixii's advertising makes it seem like they are doing something that is very different to just shooting RAW, when in fact the whole process is seemingly identical to how Lightroom or Capture handle black and white RAW conversion, just in camera rather than in software and with a good profile (which LR and C1 offer a variety of options for). I guess it does remove clicking a button and waiting for the software to do the conversion but I'm still not sure it's much of a task. Even there own info page compares it to JPGs, which seems an odd and slightly pointless comparison.
I feel that most users would be better off buying a Fuji X-Pro series (or more authentic range finder options) and shooting RAW with Capture One's support for film simulations, which can even be set to apply on import. That's not to say the Pixii doesn't have other merits, seemingly better IQ out of the sensor being one.
I do, as always, enough your content though. Always interesting and entertaining
If I understand correctly, the biggest difference is that Pixii is doing the inference of luminance earlier in the pipeline before mosaicing. I think they are looking at the unmosaic'ed checkerboard image, then applying a luminance boost based on known bayer values and then blending THAT information to remove some of the artifacting that happens at the edges of the micro-lenses. We should get an increase in tonal range and a slight improvement in detail.
I'm most interested in getting more tonal range and finally have something like my Foveon's BW, but with much better ISO performance.
But I do agree with Mattais...I love that it simplifies the workstream as well. It's how I shoot my Sigma Foveons. I love that my sd Quattro "remembers" it was shot in Mono and when I open it in SPP it opens as a Mono image. I use the QS button on my Quattro and make intentioned choices on BW and color (even though on those cameras I COULD go back to color, but rarely do).
Thanks for highlighting this unique camera, and others like it! A question about the framelines - are these based on the native full-frame M mount lenses, or it accounting for the APS-C crop factor? As in, when it shows 40mm framelines, is this for full frame? Making it a 60mm equivalent?
It works the same as all other rangefinder cameras have throughput history. What’s in the frame is what ends up in the picture 😀
As a cheaper alternative to a dedicated monochrome camera I wonder why the other manufacturers haven’t already done this?
Thanks for the explanation on your video
Smaller market always more risky to invested in
Either they didn’t think of it. Or they didn’t understand some people wanted it.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter I expect they will be looking at how to do it now!
I love the pixii Videos i hobe to see more in the Future. The monochrom is amazing. After your videos i purchased one by my selfe thank you for your Reviews.
I understand that this camera does not have a mechanical shutter. Is the sensor stacked? Do you get motion blur or lighting artifacts indoors or at a stadium? (I understand that this is not a camera for sports, but what if I need to take a picture in a location with flickering stadium lights?) ... also, how would you rate the camera's water and dust resistance? There is no mention of anything on their website... but if has few openings so I'm curious how it does in the rain?
No issues at stadiums so far for me. It has a very fast readout. It could happen but it’s rare. Same with jello, it needs to be something very fast and close to you.
It has regular dust/moist resistance. But since no lenses for the mount is weather sealed, it would be wasted on the camera.
Coool
So even at high iso , the pictures are Gainless or the same grain as if it was shot in color?
I doubt anyone could tell the difference between a monochrome vs color converted to monochrome
In the edit I definitely can, regular viewers not so much. But that isn’t the point of a monochrome camera imo.
Shoot the Leica M10 Monochrome at 50000 ISO next to the color camera of your choice… at the same ISO. Your eyes will be opened.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter Maybe a comparison of the monochrome mode with the regular color mode that's then converted would be a good video. I know I would be interested in seeing it from this camera.
@@ledheavy26 I did that in the first part.
interesting. will let the early adopters work out the problems.
Fujifilm should do this for the Xpro4
I was thinking about buying the Pixii camera but would like to have a camera that can satisfy my street photography needs, and also be able to do film scanning. Do you think this camera could handle film scanning with say a 50mm lens and a macro attachment?
It sure can. But personally I would hate scanning with a rangefinder and no screen. For scanning you can just buy an old Canon t3i for $50 buck. It can tether to.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter I have a Cannon T5, what lens would you recommend?
Thanks for the video Mattias. The pixii is very tempting. I would love to try it out before buying but that seems impossible even if I live in Paris? (asking the ambassador) I don't see any information about this possibility. I want to feel it in my hands and look through the viewfinder to see if I like the magnification. Also concerned about using it with my Zeiss ZM 35mm 1.4 which is a bit fat. And another question if I may... Any plans of releasing a 40 megapixel Pixii 3?
It’s possible there will be opportunity's to test it in more locations in the future. Meanwhile you could try finding a user in Paris. Maybe look via the Facebook group?
Can i use other old lens on this camera which those not m-mount lens like nikon ai lens or minolta md lens. Can it focusing correctly?
You need a rangefinder coupled lens. The only adaptable mount is m39.
So this behaves as a true monochrome without actually being a monochrome ?
Well?
Dang. GAS levels have gone up significantly! That said, this raises an interesting proposition for firmware implementation of such a feature in older cameras? Maybe? Who knows. Interesting possibility though.
Oh, it'd be a project for the motivated dev. Probably quite doable with Magic Lantern firmware for Canon DSLRs
👍👍👍
Not a profectional photographer but do you think this camera can also work for those who (like me) cannot use post processing softwares? Can this camera do a good auto whitebalance set and export JPEGs directly and giving mostly good results for color and mono pictures, thank you :)
I would hold off before buying it for 100% jpeg. In it’s current form it’s more catered towards a raw workflow.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter Thank you, that is good to know. I will go get a Fuji X-Pro2 or X100F then :) Or, how much work is really needed if the raw workflow is involved? (You will have to edit or tweak each photo separately I suppose?) I never shot/edit raw before and not sure if I should learn about shooting raw :)
It’s not very much imo. I don’t do more with Pixii files than I would Fuji. But buying a Pixii is first and foremost about the rangefinder. If you don’t want a rangefinder then the Pixii isn’t for you.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter I see. Thank you. I am asking here simply because I want to use a rangefinder 😅
Since you've used the Sigma Sd Quattro....how does the monochrome files of the Pixii compare to those of Sigma's? I don't know why....but nothing does it for me like the Sigma does.
Yeah, I'd love for the devs at Pixii compare what they are doing to what happens on the Quattro Foveon for Mono.
Been to long since I used the Quattro to make a comparison.
I think a lot of people miss the enhanced flexibility of converting a color RAW file to B&W and using the various color sliders to achieve what amounts to filter effects. I find this extremely useful and it far exceeds the flexibility of a file without color data. Consider a color RAW file that is then converted to B&W. The color data is retained. If I want to fine tune a blue sky background I can use luminance and saturation values in the color editor to do that and this is far superior to simply futzing with gray scale and much easier than using masks. I do not know if you can do this in Lightroom but you sure can in Capture One. So I much prefer to have a file that retains color data.
Fair point, but if you can gain better tonal range by using the full luminance across the sensor instead of the interpreted mosaic and CFA, you have more flexibility in general tones. This is why the Pixii (and Foveon's) are so intriguing...if you can have a great color file AND a BW that has more tonality and detail, then you have the best of both worlds. I know my Foveon's are far and above my favorite mono files so I'm kind of excited to play with some Pixii mono RAWs
@@patrickjclarke "but if you can gain better tonal range by using the full luminance across the sensor instead of the interpreted mosaic and CFA, you have more flexibility in general tones"
I would like to know how true this is in a real world objective comparison. If tonal range is the same as dynamic range there should be a number. I would like to see such a number compared to the DR of my oldish Nikon D750. But even then numbers do not always equate to a real world difference.
But again, if I want to manipulate a portion of blue sky I can do so without a mask or making a selection by adjusting the blue sliders without affecting other areas in the image unless they are the same color blue. In a gray scale, if you adjust even a tiny range of gray in that 'blue' sky it is going to affect all the other grays in the image in the same range unless you use a mask or a selection.
Main difference is the “commitment” vs “I’ll set it in mono for now and can recover the color in post anyway”. Many of us love restricting ourselves, by teasing out options, you sometimes make photos to speak more (aka “better” photos). It’s the same as using prime lens, shooting film with a fixed iso, focusing manually, using point and shoot, using tiny on-camera flash, the list goes on and on
@@bencompson I'll be honest, I don't know how much difference at the APS-C to FF sensor size tonal range is noticeable by most, but as sensor size grows, tonal range grows as well...one of the reasons I still shoot medium format BW film.
But I say all that and then look at the Monochrome images coming out of the Merrill and Quattro Foveon sensors and their tonal range seems to be close to what XP2 is giving me on 645. That's why I want to see more Pixii mono's to see if the difference is THAT noticeable compared to a FF converted colored image converted.
I'm just super happy that Pixii is trying new things and being innovative and very open-minded. We need more Pixii's and Sigma's in the world. :P
You can do it in Lightroom as well. For me it doesn’t even come close to outweigh the positives of using a monochrome DNG.
Highly rec
I don't think this vid really helps understand how it works. and even reading the site, I'm not certain.
From the website, it sounds like they are maybe calculating what the light "should" be, hitting any particular pixel. So, say it has a red filter over it, they are calculating the predicted loss in light from other frequencies, and adding that back in. So its like a simulated true monochrome?
I'd be curious for you to show us the difference more directly, between just a converted colour RAW and this simulated true monochrome thing.
It sounds interesting, and the pictures out the camera look incredible, either way.
I show a side by side in my first video.
How about Pen F? It has a monochrome mode as well.
Jpeg only, like basically all cameras, not just the Pen-F. Which btw, is what I used for the jpeg examples in this video.
Wouldn't a foveon x3/quattro sensor be a better solution to having a BW and color camera in one package? Since you don't Loose any color information, can shoot in raw, and get FULL resolution BW like from a Leica Monochrom. Plus when you remove the hot mirror you can do full spectrum/infrared. Granted the foveon cameras are not range finders and are much slower to use typically.
If it’s not a rangefinder and pretty limited in ISO. It’s always subjective anyway, no camera in the history of the world has ever been better than another. It depends on the users needs and preference.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter absolutely! Just saying strictly in terms of how the monochrome image is produces since there is no demosaic process. The way PIXII have done it is pretty genius though!
it looks a leica for Hobbits.
Because they like modern design?
(Don’t know aquat about LOTR, couldn’t stay awake.)
Interesting approach. Seems like other cameras and raw processing software should be able to do the same.
Hi
What storage option do you have ,and how many images can you store.
Thanks
I have a 32GB which can store up to 800 images. I could probably have settled for 8GB.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter hi
Thanks for that its really helpful
@@gearreallydoesntmatter interesting. Here I was wondering if 64GB would be enough. 😂
only issue with this camera is the Leica lenses, they just too expensive lol. I love it!
No need to use Leica lenses, plenty of affordable alternatives these days. I’ve switched from Leica and Zeiss to Voigtlander. Works great.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter and the Artisan's (7 and TT) offer a lot of interesting lenses in M mount.
Wait, the camera is 3000€ xD
No thanks !
You get what you pay for 🤷
Still way cheaper than the competition.
There is another option with Fuji (and maybe some other) cameras. Shoot RAW only and still use some monochrome simulation. You will end up with RAW file but C1 will automatically apply same film simulation upon import. Magic.
Same on all cameras, it’s the option number 1 in the video. Personally I’m not after any “film look” or “film simulation”.
How is the low light?
Really good. Check my first video about it.
advert :)
Sounds like you didn’t watch the video :)
The problem is that there isn’t just one black and white, many film options are possible, or using tinted filters. The Olympus OM-D will simulate these in-camera, albeit with JPEGs (you can still save as RAW+JPG). How could you achieve these different looks with the Pixii? It feels as though that decision has already been taken for you. Even a genuine colour filter attached to the camera may not result in the shading you wanted because of the pre-grading Pixii have baked in.
By using actual filters and not fake once in camera. The Pixii can do everything you mention that the Olympus can + real monochrome.
Sorry if this is wrong, but I think another option to shoot b&w would be to use Fujifilm with b&w film simulations and just shoot in RAW. At least that is what I do. When I export the RAW files, I see the film simulation applied to them. It is not as "special" as pixii or leica, but I think it is a step above the first option described in the video.
Edit: Grammar
In other words, exactly like the first option. All cameras have that, "film simulations" = what other brands call "picture profiles".
@@gearreallydoesntmatter right, but most of them do not produce raw files with the profile pictures, they would output a black and white jpeg right? Maybe I am mistaken, sorry if I am just too inexperienced
They all do. Its still not a real black and white raw file since its just a preselected “simulation”/profile in the editor.
but the price???!!! LOL
I know, much lower than one would have thought :)
Fascinating stuff. Any filter array is going to leave each pixel with incomplete luminance information, and math is required to interpolate between them. Interpolation across the pixels to reconstruct color information is going to have a cost, typically half the pixels inform brightness, half inform color, and everything gets rounded out, with dangers where there are sharp edges between colors.
Using a different algorithm that doesn’t prioritize color reconstruction can skip steps, perform fewer steps. Less round off error, so to speak. I’d guess that a lot of raw processing software goes through all the steps of rebuilding colors, even if you eventually discard it. You’re paying the cost (the monochrome DNGs seem nicer). There is a benefit-you get color information. You can use that for color images, or you can digitally apply virtual color filters, to adjust what is lint and dark. Red filters make the sky dark and dramatic, but reds and whites become hard to distinguish (I’ve noticed it shooting flowers). Being able to use color information to adjust the balance of a B&W image in post can be handy.
And yet, there is probably something to be gained by skipping those steps. If you want that information, it costs you something in another part of the image. To that end, I bet it’d be possible to design a raw processor that did only monochrome images, that used the raw sensor data in a different way, with an algorithm with its own priorities.
And for filters, you can apply internally or you need external? External filters interrupt the flow. In post with a colour conversion they give you so many options. If you place the two types of monochrome images side by side in a gallery would you notice the difference? I guess not... But sometimes that's not the point. I'll stick with my XP3; I can see the world in Acros before I press the shutter, but thank you.
Xpro3 is quite nice. If it was better built and had a rangefinder I would never have sold it.
There is a 4th, and IMHO, the best choice for B&W, the Sigma Merill or Quattro series. The digital file contains all 3 primary colors, so that any b&w filter effect can be done. Since the 3 layers red blue green are in register, the microcontrast is superb, which is what you need to separate close shades of grey. The Leica Monochrom requires a traditional red, orange, yellow etc. filter to get the effect, since there is no color information. If you are using a red filter and focusing via the rangefinder, the focus will be considerably off as red focuses at a different distance from green and blue. No mention is made of how filter effects can be done with the Pixma. Is it via external filter or software? Since the b&w mode is a monochrome image with no color info, we are dealing with a sensor like the Leica monochrom in effect. If you shoot with the Pixma with no filter effect added, the images will not be dramatic. Any long time b&w photog knows that color filters are essential to manipulate tones in b&w. Finally, the sharpness of images from the Sigma series cameras are stunning, because of the unique design of the sensor. Sorry, this Pixma camera is a no go for me. Plus, it doesn’t have frame lines for short telephoto portrait lenses in the 85mm range. That is a glaring omission for the many portrait photographers.
Being forced to use physical filters is a plus in my book. Makes it much closer to the B&W film experience. I love sigma classic and Quattro (I don’t like the Merrill). But they are not a replacement of any camera imo. Too limited.
Isnt shooting colour raw files and then converting to monochrome closer to the experience of shooting b&w film? You see the photo in colour first but then get b&w photos
Not sure how you could see the colors in a rangefinder or before developing a film roll?
Remove the Bayer filter?
That camera looked tempting but only the option of build in memory - at least for me a nope.
You can off load on the go so in practice the only difference for me has been that the card doesn’t break from being removed and inserted all the time.
3k :/
I know, thought it would have been much more :)
Still cheaper than a M10 or Q monochrome.
And definitely cheaper than an M10 + M10 monochrome for both color and B&W raw files :)
Curious what it means to be a brand ambassador (i.e., what perks do you get?)...and does this mean you will no longer review other brands/cameras? I hope not. Love your reviews, especially of the older cameras that everyone has moved on from...
Read the pinned comment at the top :)
@@gearreallydoesntmatter That’s the RUclips version of “It’s in the syllabus”. Congrats on becoming an ambassador for the brand! Certainly piqued my curiosity further….
I wonder how this mode reacts to color filters on the lens. Does it get fooled and produce a checkerboard, or does it realize there's a filter (possibly from the average R/G/B ratios). An interesting experiment to try.
Ive used it to make a trichrome with RGB color filters. You can find it a couple of posts down on my community page.
I see the trichrome. But the b&w components are resized too small to see individual pixels. So I can't tell how it handled reversing the effect of the internal bayer and the filter on the lens together. The pattern, if present, would be at the pixel level.
It works like any monochrome camera with colored filters. It doesn’t need to do any calculations.
@@gearreallydoesntmatter Hmmm, it can't work quite like a camera without a bayer filter. It's got to be doing some calculation to convert the sensor readout to monochrome pixels. I take your comment to mean that there is no weirdness in the monochrome image at the pixel level when a colored filter is used. Therefore the software has to be noticing the colored filter's effect and adjusting for it.
@@NicDade You can use color filters for B&W on any camera. You can do trichrome with filters on any camera. It sounds like you misunderstand a little how color filters effect B&W images. The software doesn't need to do anything because it first and foremost has no idea a filter is there. Thats pretty much how filters work, they trick a camera to not make adjustments.
I shoot RAW on my GM5, I just set the viewfinder to black and white
Are there any cameras as small as the GM5, but with a flip screen?
Yup, before the Pixii I did the same. It’s not the same thing but it is useful (it was one of my tips in my video about B&W photography).
@@gearreallydoesntmatter I just looked into the settings and apparently I can just shoot black and white in RAW on my GM-5 (by changing the photo style to monochrome instead of setting a filter), my Nikon D3400 can do the same. Did I misunderstand? I basically understood that almost all camera's only have .jpeg output in black and white.
@@da009999 Not as small but probably a few that come close.
Just to name a few of the smaller ones (mostly older camera's) and mostly without viewfinders:
Canon M100, Lumix GX880, GX800, Samsung NX mini, Sony NEX-5, NEX-3, A5000, A5100 and the complete Lumix GF line up are a few that come to mind, if you look i to camera's slichly bigger, you will have way more options.
Maybe look into a sony RX100, from the 3rd generation I think, they also have a viewfinder
Im pretty sure your raw file in the GM5 and Nikon can be switched back to color. Its just telling your editor you wanted it in b&w so I pre applies that profile.
They gotta work on the look of that thing. It looks like Kodak & Casio had a baby in the 80's
Yeah, looks great 👍
A dissenting theory on digi monochromes, if I may. Obviously, there's no right or wrong on this and everyone should do exactly what makes them happy. And of course beautiful imagery can come out of a monochrome camera, BUT... IF the desire is for an experience akin to shooting with BW film, then I find there to be something odd about desiring the flexibility of RAW. The film experience, as I see it, is that once your image is processed, it's essentially done, with the majority of decisions about how the image will look having been determined by film choice and any color filters used on the lens itself. The closest we have to this kind of experience is actually the JPGs created from in-camera looks. Once you decide you want the flexibility of RAW and then bring into LR, you're entering a very modern workflow that desires more options, not less (as the video illustrates, the photographer can decide whether they want a "high DR image" or a very contrasty one in post - these were decisions that used to be made before shooting). And besides offsetting the ease of BW shooting with more work, you are actually at a distinct disadvantage, from an options perspective, from those who convert from color. Color sliders in BW conversion allow us to do advanced versions of what our color filters used to do on our lenses - we can combine them, use them locally and apply gradations with them now. I've shot with the Leica Monochrom a number of times and I find the extra grays to actually be an issue. Most global post-processing adjustments on a monochrom image make the image either look too structured/plasticky or so overly contrasted as to question why one needed those grays to begin with. And in the end, I spend far more time on a digital Monochrom image to get it to look like my favorite film stocks than I do with a color conversion. Which seems like a special irony. Anyway, not trying to dis any cameras (I'm a Leica Akadmie Instructor), I just really love BW imagery and have a much different experience than many who swear by Monochromes. Hopefully, all this taken just as discussion. Very interested in others' experiences here!
I don't agree. With film there is tons of work to do in post for the advanced user. Thats why "Lightroom" is just a play on words on the analog "Darkroom". And why the tools and sliders have the same names and graphic representation as their analog equivalents.
Using the tools in Lightroom is no different than what the old masters did in the darkroom. Just faster and with no chemicals. And it of course depends on the shooter. A regular Joe would just turn the film into the lab and be done while Ansel Adams spent hours upon hours manipulating, enhancing, using the brush tool etc.
I like being able to choose how much work to put in on any given picture. Thats why I stick with raw, to have the option.
Converting from color to be able to simulate filters is not enough for me personally to outweigh the positives with a true monochrome. I rather use physical filters or other tools to create the same effect (which I almost never want to anyway).
The Leica grays is just a flat curve and something one needs to learn. And learning and understanding curves will benefit your editing on other files as well. Including colors.
Like you said, there is no right or wrong, just personal preferences and opinions, which makes it more fun :)
@@gearreallydoesntmatter Fred Herzog sent his film into the lab. ;)
Good for him :)
There is no magic or innovation in this. Well over a decade ago, I used to extract the data from the Red Channel of an astro converted Canon 1100d ( all filters removed but the Bayer Matrix Array or Microlensing ) to make true BW narrow band ( Hydrogen Alpha ) images of deep sky nebulae. Much like the so called ' high resolution ' mode of newer digital cameras with IBIS. This was invented by Nasa when they found out that the sensor of wide field camera of the Hubble Space Telescope was undersampling. The technique is called ' Drizzle '. That they can now implement these inside the camera is only the result of the increase in power of the onboard camera microcomputers. Those micro computers are the real image makers of the digital photography. Its a good feature to have, but hardly an innovation.
The way you explain makes it sound like a different process. Did you read the info on the site? Because its nothing like the high resolution modes done with IBIS. Those are just a stich after physically moving the sensor.
😀 p͓̽r͓̽o͓̽m͓̽o͓̽s͓̽m͓̽