You, wounded satellite, and Tyler from play to win inspired me to play kinnan! Such an amazing deck!!! Also congrats on winning mox masters and getting yourself a time twister!!!
I recently just got started in collecting cards for cEDH. Thank you for such inspiration and giving your knowledge into the format. I'll most definitely keep watching your videos.
I will not proxy a cEDH deck as you cannot play sanctioned tournaments with proxies. I'm not new by any means to mtg or to commander but cEDH is different from casual. I get what you're saying but I'll own the real versions.
@@obiwanjay5706 I do it with decks have most of the staples of and auto includes. Then you’re left with about 30 proxies. Right now I’m buying a card or 2 every payday or add 20 on store credit. I also trade for the cards I need that are proxied. It just takes time and I can’t afford it all at once. Some decks are in the thousands or 4 thousands lol so I’ve someone could just buy multiple decks at once that would be very impressive. However local cedh pods do not care about proxies and you can find weaknesses in your deck for example I had timetwister proxied and after running it I actually found windfalls to be better.
Long time Kinnan pilot here, a few questions about the list that weren't brought up in the video: Cephalid Coliseum would let you win at instant speed through a new line Wounded Sattelite found if you're still on crop rot. The value of crop rotation is definitely much lower in versions that don't run the utility land suite but it's still so good to get a Gaea's Cradle, why are you off it? Running Turntimber Symbiosis without Force of Vigor is a bit surprising, if the goal was to reduce dead fetches, a Yavimaya Cradle of Growth would probably be better suited. Are you scared to fix other player's mana with how much Kinnan is already running around? I feel like still playing Moonsnare Prototype but not Copy Artifact despite how ubiquitous The One Ring is now is a bit surprising. Why not run it if you're already on Simic Signet since it acts as a 2 drop mana neutral rock most of the time? The list you're running also has a Resculpt but no Pongify, so Endurance can't loop to make infinite 3/3's. I guess it does still have Swan Song, do you find the exile and being able to target artifacts that good? Why not play Force of Vigor or another Naturalize effect in that case? Most as you said, most Kinnan pilots are off of running cantrips but I feel like if there was one cantrip to run it would be Brainstorm since it's instant speed and can put targets for Kinnan activations on top, plus there's a decent amount of fetches to shuffle anyway. Other than for turn 1 setting up draws why are you on Ponder over the other options? Your list is still a very good and tuned one, and I'm interested to hear what you think of this feedback!
Hi sir.... great job on your Kinan Video and also in winning the 1st. place! i recently have a Kinan cEDH deck, around 2 days in time of this comment. I am excited in playing it in the table... i will try to follow your tips and decklist too if ever i need to tweek this. Thanks thanks!
Been playing kinnan since ikoria. Shout out to pongo for popularizing mirage mirror. Your take on manglehorn as being new made me laugh. Much respect Ian. I’ll get to a real tournament someday.
If I start playing cedh consistently and in tournaments kinnan is probably the deck I want. It is basically the classic Timmy big creature deck that has access to blue. I have an ashaya cedh deck and I love it, but my god does it feel that it is lacking protection so much.
I use filigree sages 2b: untap target artifact to go infinate with cromantic orrey. Since i cant afford gilded drake i figured id run that as another combo piece.
What are your thoughts on Agatha's Soul Cauldron in Kinnan? With Basalt Monolith in play, one can activate Kinnan's ability until all your creatures are on the field or do I get this wrong?
Recently started getting more awious, would you say kinan is stronger than najeela? I started with najeela and it's been performing well everytime and I switched to kinan to change it up and it's also performed well
What are your thoughts on running eternal witness as a regrowth effect you get from a Kinnan activation? I currently have a casually Koma list I'm thinking of converting into Kinnan and I still want to run neoform/Eldritch evolution but could I get away with natural order turning a mana dork into nyxbloom?
@@ComedIanMTG what about natural order and Eldritch Evolution? I can't remember if you're on crop rotation or not but would I run that for treasure vault and cradle?
Question about Tivit…noticed you hadnt made any updates to your list after you discussed with Callahan on the Tivit podcast…so I guess I’m asking, why was that? What’s your thoughts opinion of n ranger captain in the deck? I ask that question, because it seems like just a 3 mana bad silence? Because it’s secondary tutor ability literally only gets you 1 option at best. I mean, I know why the “silence” ability is good, but it also feels over costed at that point when f you’re not using the entire card for its worth…or am I overthinking it? Also, what types of hands are you looking to keep? Sorry, I guess that was more than 1 question. New to Tivit still learning play patterns
I believe you may be overthinking it. Ranger captain is one of the top 5 cards of the format arguably. Creatures are very hard to counter so often it's an uncounterable silence that also can be used defensively. Also I've definitely updated it since that cast
11:00 I was told that I could stack the effects differently so I would get 6 mana from things like a birds but after reading the rulings for Kinnan and Nyxbloom I see that the SLIGHTLY different wording between the two cards is that Kinnan himself makes the extra mana while Nyxbloom says that the permanent that gets tapped makes triple and Nyxbloom only triples mana that is from something tapped so it wouldn't triple the mana that Kinnan generates. Sad that it isn't completely broken but I guess that makes sense. I feel bad for the two times I completely stole a game with virtually infinite mana because I was told it worked differently but I'm glad to learn how it really works now!
am I understanding this right? when trying to to filter infinite colorless into infinite colored mana via mirage mirror you want to put infinite amount of mirror activations on the stack alternating the target b/w your g/u source and basalt monolith and in between activations holding prio?
Sorry I don’t understand how can you hold priority and keep swapping around between basalt and dual lands? When mirage can only revert when it your turn ends
Mana abilities do not use the stack, excluding a few unique situations like Lions Eye Diamond, which generates mana at instant speed instead of being agnostic to priority.
You, wounded satellite, and Tyler from play to win inspired me to play kinnan! Such an amazing deck!!! Also congrats on winning mox masters and getting yourself a time twister!!!
Great explanation for the mirage mirror combo. Nice and simple way to explain it. ❤❤❤
I recently just got started in collecting cards for cEDH. Thank you for such inspiration and giving your knowledge into the format. I'll most definitely keep watching your videos.
Proxy then no one cares in cedh. Staples an entire deck is 9$
I will not proxy a cEDH deck as you cannot play sanctioned tournaments with proxies. I'm not new by any means to mtg or to commander but cEDH is different from casual. I get what you're saying but I'll own the real versions.
@@obiwanjay5706wrong, cedh tournaments (including lotuscon) allow proxies. it's about your skill, not your money
@@obiwanjay5706 I do it with decks have most of the staples of and auto includes. Then you’re left with about 30 proxies. Right now I’m buying a card or 2 every payday or add 20 on store credit. I also trade for the cards I need that are proxied. It just takes time and I can’t afford it all at once. Some decks are in the thousands or 4 thousands lol so I’ve someone could just buy multiple decks at once that would be very impressive. However local cedh pods do not care about proxies and you can find weaknesses in your deck for example I had timetwister proxied and after running it I actually found windfalls to be better.
Long time Kinnan pilot here, a few questions about the list that weren't brought up in the video:
Cephalid Coliseum would let you win at instant speed through a new line Wounded Sattelite found if you're still on crop rot. The value of crop rotation is definitely much lower in versions that don't run the utility land suite but it's still so good to get a Gaea's Cradle, why are you off it?
Running Turntimber Symbiosis without Force of Vigor is a bit surprising, if the goal was to reduce dead fetches, a Yavimaya Cradle of Growth would probably be better suited. Are you scared to fix other player's mana with how much Kinnan is already running around?
I feel like still playing Moonsnare Prototype but not Copy Artifact despite how ubiquitous The One Ring is now is a bit surprising. Why not run it if you're already on Simic Signet since it acts as a 2 drop mana neutral rock most of the time?
The list you're running also has a Resculpt but no Pongify, so Endurance can't loop to make infinite 3/3's. I guess it does still have Swan Song, do you find the exile and being able to target artifacts that good? Why not play Force of Vigor or another Naturalize effect in that case?
Most as you said, most Kinnan pilots are off of running cantrips but I feel like if there was one cantrip to run it would be Brainstorm since it's instant speed and can put targets for Kinnan activations on top, plus there's a decent amount of fetches to shuffle anyway. Other than for turn 1 setting up draws why are you on Ponder over the other options?
Your list is still a very good and tuned one, and I'm interested to hear what you think of this feedback!
damn, he clearly didn't care LMAO XD
Do you have the current Kinnan list you are on?
Started building the deck this week and this came out. Great timing lol.
Fingers crossed for tivit soon.
Hi sir.... great job on your Kinan Video and also in winning the 1st. place! i recently have a Kinan cEDH deck, around 2 days in time of this comment. I am excited in playing it in the table... i will try to follow your tips and decklist too if ever i need to tweek this.
Thanks thanks!
hey man, I just found your channel. Love the in depth content and explanation. Subscribed for sure.
Would love to see tivit. I know you did an upgrade discussion on the mind sculptors and a dedicated video would be nice
Seen ya on mox masters!! Hope you did well homie!! Lovin the new spice in the dawnwaker list!! Killer work for the community!!
Been playing kinnan since ikoria. Shout out to pongo for popularizing mirage mirror. Your take on manglehorn as being new made me laugh. Much respect Ian. I’ll get to a real tournament someday.
If I start playing cedh consistently and in tournaments kinnan is probably the deck I want. It is basically the classic Timmy big creature deck that has access to blue. I have an ashaya cedh deck and I love it, but my god does it feel that it is lacking protection so much.
it is genuinely a blast
@@ComedIanMTG good to hear. I will print my proxy one for the next fnm that is not prerelease and we will see from there
Excellent break down, how do you play kinnan when the rest of the table knows how powerful it is and targets kinnan pretty aggressively?
I use filigree sages 2b: untap target artifact to go infinate with cromantic orrey. Since i cant afford gilded drake i figured id run that as another combo piece.
What are your thoughts on Agatha's Soul Cauldron in Kinnan? With Basalt Monolith in play, one can activate Kinnan's ability until all your creatures are on the field or do I get this wrong?
I like it a lot but didn't want 2 filter effects so I chose mirror for the shared summons line
@@ComedIanMTG Alright that makes sense. Thanks for the answer!
How do u feel about Agath's soul cauldron as another mirror? also do you think devoited druid plus machine god's effigy is worth running?
I run all 3 of those, and perplexing with homeward path, I’d cut gin Gix, ponder and symbiote the socery flip land for the 3 you mentioned.
What’re you replacing mana crypt with after the bans today?
Hey would you still play this list today? What about Jin Gitaxys, would you cut him? I really love your list
thanks bro, first games played with kiannan. made some stupid misplays.. 🤣
Does the basalt+mirror work with Zirda as well? I think I’m reading it correctly. Assuming I have others outlets, it should function the same, right?
What are your thoughts on Agathas' soul cauldron in the 99?
its so good. it can even stop breach
A good target for moonsilver key is chromatic array it fixes you're infinit colorless mana to colored mana
Recently started getting more awious, would you say kinan is stronger than najeela? I started with najeela and it's been performing well everytime and I switched to kinan to change it up and it's also performed well
it's hard to say in explicit terms but I know I would be much more comfortable with Kinnan as my commander
What are your thoughts on running eternal witness as a regrowth effect you get from a Kinnan activation? I currently have a casually Koma list I'm thinking of converting into Kinnan and I still want to run neoform/Eldritch evolution but could I get away with natural order turning a mana dork into nyxbloom?
It's a human :/ or else I'd 100% play it
@@ComedIanMTG damn, I totally thought it was an elf with the way it looks.
@@ComedIanMTG what about natural order and Eldritch Evolution? I can't remember if you're on crop rotation or not but would I run that for treasure vault and cradle?
one of the best deck tech videos ever
I love perplexing chimera. But I definitely see how it's a more casual card.
Question about Tivit…noticed you hadnt made any updates to your list after you discussed with Callahan on the Tivit podcast…so I guess I’m asking, why was that? What’s your thoughts opinion of n ranger captain in the deck? I ask that question, because it seems like just a 3 mana bad silence? Because it’s secondary tutor ability literally only gets you 1 option at best. I mean, I know why the “silence” ability is good, but it also feels over costed at that point when f you’re not using the entire card for its worth…or am I overthinking it? Also, what types of hands are you looking to keep? Sorry, I guess that was more than 1 question. New to Tivit still learning play patterns
I believe you may be overthinking it. Ranger captain is one of the top 5 cards of the format arguably. Creatures are very hard to counter so often it's an uncounterable silence that also can be used defensively. Also I've definitely updated it since that cast
I think the updates were after the recording but before the release of the episode which may have been what lead to the confusion.
My guy got sprinkled in stardust.... 😂
I always said from the start when I picked Kinnan to play, that-he’s better than Winota but she’s no push over, love ikoria for giving us both.
Why do you need the extra 4 or 5 colorless mana for trophy mage and mirror if you have the basalt monolith out?
11:00 I was told that I could stack the effects differently so I would get 6 mana from things like a birds but after reading the rulings for Kinnan and Nyxbloom I see that the SLIGHTLY different wording between the two cards is that Kinnan himself makes the extra mana while Nyxbloom says that the permanent that gets tapped makes triple and Nyxbloom only triples mana that is from something tapped so it wouldn't triple the mana that Kinnan generates. Sad that it isn't completely broken but I guess that makes sense. I feel bad for the two times I completely stole a game with virtually infinite mana because I was told it worked differently but I'm glad to learn how it really works now!
Any chance do you have a video covering curiosity control?
Great video.
I am 3 cards short of building kinnan and cant afford them what replacements would you recommend for, cradle, trop, grim monolith.
a proxy? multiple cedh tournaments allow them
The low floor high ceiling is the only reason this deck doesn’t win more. Great piloting by you
am I understanding this right?
when trying to to filter infinite colorless into infinite colored mana via mirage mirror you want to put infinite amount of mirror activations on the stack alternating the target b/w your g/u source and basalt monolith and in between activations holding prio?
Yup!
What about Penmins aura or freed from the real??
I’m putting thassa’s oracle cause duh and with it being colorless heavy deck leveler oracle combo is right there
we need an update explaining your card choices after your win!
Why didn't u play the timewisters tournaments with this deck? Nice video btw
I did haha
@@ComedIanMTG but on the decklists site your name was linked to partners decks
Sorry I don’t understand how can you hold priority and keep swapping around between basalt and dual lands? When mirage can only revert when it your turn ends
Because you only let the ability resolve when you have thousands of triggers on the stack
why doesn't any Kinnan list run thoricle?
How is Kinnan not on Agatha's??
i think its weird that no one plays freed from the reel
Kinnan & Winota your overall top decks?! Is IKORIA THE SET THAT BREAKS cEDH??! :D
Kinnan 🎉🎉 LFG 💪🏻 💪🏻
Rules question? Kinnan's first ability is a trigger, right? So I can react when a mana ability is activated which triggers him?
Nop. If kinnan is in play and you tap smthing for mana it automatically makes 2. You cam't react to the "extra pip production". Static ability
Mana abilities do not use the stack, excluding a few unique situations like Lions Eye Diamond, which generates mana at instant speed instead of being agnostic to priority.
I love cEDH but buying things like Mox Opal is just too much
The reserved list is holding back a lot of people
A significant amount of tournaments have proxy friendly policies
More Sisay!