I love the idea of a dragon baby sitting a convoy. "Ummm, mystical powerful beast as old as time and powerful as a country, we appreciate your kindness but how will we every repay you for protecting us?" "Repay? I'm the majority shareholder in this venture, now get back on the road before I cut your salaries for delaying us too long"
I have to disagree with dragon-controlled markets bubbling like our markets do. Dragons live for thousands of years and so they would likely go for long term income over short term spikes. And the first CEO to sugest gutting the company to boost their stock price would probably get eaten .
I was in this case referring to a commodities bubble, which is different from our modern stock bubbles because there's no single company inflating its stock price. Instead, we see a group (here, Dragons) severely overvaluing a specific commodity, artificially inflating prices above what the market can sustain, and watching as the value of the commodity drops out from beneath them as one or two start to sell everything. It's happened many times, for things from tulips (although that was more complex) to NFT's. You don't need price gouging, just a public perception that a thing has significant value.
@@Grungeon_Master with their long lives and superior mental accuity they are far less likely to fall for a comoddities bubble, at least more than once, and older dragons would probably mediate the markets to not lose out the way they maybe did as a wyrmling The less moral ones would probably have a grand old time instigating bubbles and raking in the GP for humanoids, though. A great wyrm sitting on a pile of flint nodules convinced they will make a comeback some day is an amazing image, though
Markets are inherently unstable and they cannot last forever without serious wealth redistribution. There is a finite amount of wealth and if you need it to survive, and someone is collecting all of it, that can't last. Dtagons live on a timescale to see that effect. Thier goal may be to actually accure everything and transition to pure dictatorship. Or they may prefer to demonitize a society in order to aquire the riches of a society when they no longer value things like gold
The ultra wealthy actually profit massively form these market cycles and crashes. They have the capital to weather the storm long enough to buy up everything for cheap. Dragons would try to make these crashes as bad as possible to ride these cycles just like our dragons irl do.
I could see a turn of phrase developing around Silver Dragons, "Don't rely on the kindness of Silver," which would be to say, that a Silver Dragon's protection and prosperity may be welcomed, but it should not be the bedrock of your kingdom.
@@Alche_mist Totally, and not always at the fault of the Silver. I can imagine a Silver Dragon safeguarding a great city only for them to turn militaristic and haughty. Silver Dragon disappears (not because of any real behavioral grievances, Silver Dragons just do that some times) and the city tries to cash a conflict check they have no money in the bank for.
I would expect the dragon to not just create the market but instead act as sort of a superweapon. We give the dragon money (gold, silver, gems, whatever that particular dragon likes in the hoard), and in return the dragon helps in our military efforts.
A BBEG taking the form of an ancient dragon wreaking havoc manipulating markets and instigating wars could be potentially terrifying, as slaying a dragon that is so entrenched in the world markets might result in a worldwide economic collapse… whether by absence, or via contingencies to screw over competitors in case of an assassination.
I can already imagine that dragon being a chromatic dragon in a steampunk or dieselpunk type of setting were they are essentially a weapons manufacturer that's highly involved in several military contracts for multiple countries thus making the leaders of these countries declaring that slaying it is illegal as the free kobold labor it uses helps pump out tons of guns, tanks planes and what ever else they need is just to useful, even during peace times, so killing it can also result in your players being ruthlessy hunted down by many, many pissed off world governments and other adventurers. (Free kobold labor can also explain how it got involved with other rich people/corpos)
I’ve always liked the idea that Silver Dragons are the Gandalfs of the world. Ancient, wise, and immensely powerful beings mingling with mortals in an unassuming form, to advice and guide heroes to succeed against evil, rather than being the one leading the charge
In 3.5/Pathfinder silver dragons have a distinctly Paladin-esq characterization. They even have the ability to treat divine spells as sorcerer spells they can learn with their effective sorcerer levels and an at-will detect evil ability (a 3.5/Pathfinder paladin class feature).
also as a shapechanging intelligent dragon, you can easily have your starting capital, you just have to sell your old scales or teeth that comme loose of your body, these stuffs have a high price
If being in humanoid form gives you a humanoid metabolism, it wouldn't surprise me if some dragons spend a lot of time in that smaller form just to save money on food, or just to be able to be full after one standard person's meal
It'd be interesting if they still kept a full carnivore diet or even in the gold dragon's situation, money diet. "Hey Frank, why do you always order nothing but steak at the tavern and refuse bread at the campfires during adventures?" Or with a gold dragon "You ever seen that nobleman over there eat anything at all?" "No, but I do see him nibbling on gold coins often. They SAY it's to test their authenticity but I swear I once glimpsed him swallowing one whole!"
I’d imagine it as they can sustain their lives in that form on a human diet, perhaps even feel satiated though perhaps capable of eating to their draconic full capacity, but they may have issues sustaining things like their magic, or when they revert to their dragon forms they end up lethargic and ravenous if they didn’t stuff themselves silly in human form.
It's mentioned in earlier editions that this isn't the case, unfortunately for them. Specifically steel dragons, which live entire human lifetimes in disguise, have to transform every month or so and go hunting to satisfy their appetite. They don't use up as much energy in humanoid form as draconic form though, so regular meals can still do a good job of supplementing these occasional large hunts.
A few thoughts that came up in this description. The difference in east and west views on good dragons could make for an interesting story if due to travel difficulties no metallic dragons have been to the local continent or part of the continent and as such the locals only know dragons that want to kill them, the very first metallic dragon doing market research may be difficult to play due to the power level but it certainly wouldn't be boring. In a more established setting with dragon merchant princes, I could imagine it be common for ships and caravans to fly the heraldry of an associated dragon to warn others to back off much like merchants have flown national colours, as in real life it is possible this could bring more danger depending on the patron especially in this care if there is more violent competition between dragons that find destroyed their competitors ships a less dangerous means of confrontation than a straight up fight. For the local Silver dragon dying and leaving the region undefended, I could only imagine the local authority issuing the vital quest for a matchmaker to set up this dragon and produce an heir, although I guess working out how to manage any territoriality disputes between the parent and offspring until the parent dies whilst keeping the offspring nearby might be a challenge.
In my world, a copper dragon is associated with a particular country's trade caravans. He travels as a human merchant, but if his caravan is facing an undo threat, he will shift into dragon form and intimidate the threat off. Usually he allows the guards to handle it. He last did this when Griffins came and threatened to take his horses off and the copper dragon had had enough of that.
Could you make a video on Chromatic Dragons that is as comprehensive as this one? the "Your Dragons are Bland" vid is more about how dragons influence your worldbuilding, not the dragons themselves. The idea of good vampires is also alluring.
It's a very good idea... I think the reason I didn't include a section detailing the specific types of chromatic is because I felt less inspired by their specific personalities/quirks. Certainly worth a revisit, as what fails to inspire one day may inspire the next. Maybe there'll be a vampire video in the far future, we'll have to see! I've certainly used them enough in my games
@Grungeon_Master chromatic dragons have excellent personality quirks. For starters they are the highest born. The most ancient and pure bloodline. While Bahamut disgrace Dragonkind and befouls himself by spending most his time humanoid. Chromatic relish their Draco form They are the epitome of militant, elitist and racist. While the Metallics maybe cultivated civilization the Chromatics love to eat them and genocide them. They have no use for lesser beings and this brings them into conflict with their more benevolent kin
@@armorclasshero2103 In reference to historical times, OP is correct. Conquerors honored the vanquished's debts more often than you'd expect because it helped preserve the stability of the lending market to ensure that those creditors would be available and willing to loan to them in the future if needed. This wasn't universal; creditors could also just get shafted for betting on the wrong side, and sometimes kings would just seize the wealth of banking families outright.
@@carsonm7292 it also helped legitimizing the conqueror. Sure the kingdom is under new management, but nothing else changed. The new ruler honors the deal like the old one, so you should have no trouble accepting their authority. A very important part in succession is acting like a successor, because that way the outside will accept you.
Metal armor would actually be more effective against lightning breath than non-metal armor. As the metal surrounding your body is more conductive than your body and will therefore direct the current around you, rather than through you: ruclips.net/video/eNxDgd3D_bU/видео.htmlsi=3O9gW9-BwBCGpX3i Today, faraday suits (a modern analog to chain mail) are worn by those working on power lines.
This discussion makes me think of a dragon NPC who serves as a financial advisor to other Dragons and runs a company that just manages wealth. But that dragon is "work averse" as well, so they employ a bunch of Humanoids (and a few young Dragons) that do the busy work and book keeping. Lots of adventure-adjacent plot hooks there!
I have two funny images in mind: • a brass dragon similar to the granny from Majora's Mask who is inadvertently putting to sleep anyone to whom it speaks • a gold dragon similar to the Hungry Tiger from Oz which is too Good to eat the treasure it needs
Dragons already spend most of their time organizing their hoard. So with the culture of dragons also focusing on building and maintaining the hoard above all else. Combine that with hundreds of years of experience and the fact that the hoard itself is magical and can turn items magical. I think they can handle it
I loved this. All I could think as I watched this was: all this assumes that dragons must be intensely averse to working together. Of course, many dragons are, but it only takes one example or two or more dragons developing true trust for one another and agreeing to a full partnership, and the game changes completely. Imagine a dragon that is great at organising and managing sitting at the centre of a vast trading empire, with another dragon protecting the most lucrative ventures in person. Their lairs are adjacent, even perhaps built as a single vast building with a wing each (no pun intended). Anyone opposing them has to face not one, but two of the most powerful creatures in existence. Not only does this make it less likely for humanoids adversaries to come against, it also acts as a fabulous defence against chromatic dragons. And then imagine what happens if those two dragons mate, and hatch a few eggs together. And educate those dragons in the family business. Suddenly you have a guild run by the a whole lineage of powerful beings who will each individually outlive almost every humanoid working for them. and when the family head dies? The next dragon in line simply steps up to take over. With centuries (or millennia if you use older lore) to prepare for this, and with the oldest dragons being so much stronger than the younger ones, succession wars should be a rare thing - although when they did occur, that would be a global event. And if one group of dragons can do it, others might seek to emulate them, to varying degrees of success. The differing strategies of each group could lead to many different kinds of stories, from dragon mafias and corporate wars, to courtly intrigue as the only successful draconic family business carefully vets potential mates for their children. And the different ways that humanoid societies can or can't interact with the different dragon families could lead to whole different set of worldbuilding questions.
Since they already own all the guilds and corps you can also have em expand theyr power even further by having them raise theyr other children into politicians or marry into the royal bloodlines thus allowing them to slowly corrupt the systems of the countries they operate in over time to conveniently always be in theyr favor.
In my homebrew setting, Draconic is the language of academia, in part due to its association with magic and ancient knowledge, much like how Latin was used (and to an extent, still is, particularly in legal and scientific terminology) in our world. The idea of it being common among bards and poets too just makes this seem more likely.
I love this idea. You could set up a dichotomy where the Metallic Dragons are the Captains of Industry compared to the Chromatic Dragons' Robber Barons, and the two have conflicts both subtle and massive. Like if Joseph Whitworth and John Jacob Astor decided to beat the shit out of each other.
Well thought-out. A friend and I ran a campaign with a similar theme: dragons began taking an active interest in human / demihuman society. One of the first things they did was pool their resources and create a bank / investment company.
I once had the thought of a story about a Steel Dragon, which are known for living among humanoids, preferring plains, and their curiosity. They try their hand at different occupations to learn new skills, not just adventurer classes but civilian ones like tanners, bakers, etc. And libraries. They'd own massive libraries as part of their hoard, maybe running a printing business and keeping a handful of copies of each new book they make. My favorite idea however, was them being open about being a Dragon, and running a dungeon as a sort of gauntlet training challenge for adventurers, a safe distance from their actual lair. Perhaps allowing wargear and trinkets to mature into magical items in their hoard, then selling them for profit. Or maybe training manuals that turned into skill books while in the hoard.
If a dragon immerses itself THAT much in the lives of humans, some questions arise. What about elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc.? And if they spend so much time shapeshifted, are there half dragons running around somewhere?
In a world I'm currently building, there is this narrow strait (think along the lines of Bosporus) and its surroundings, dividing two power-hungry empires (think along the lines of Romans and Persians). As such, it would obviously be a strategically important point. Now, here is the catch - neither of the empires goes all in to seize the strait and they actually trade through it rather peacefully and don't wage wars through that one. The reason being - a (mating) pair of dragons (a Gold and a Bronze - both amphibious) reside there and enforce the peace and the trade by their draconic might, mostly just taking a toll from the passing traders, but protecting "the other empire" viciously. Both of the empires tried to mount an attack on their neighbor through the strait. Both lost their fleet to the dragon pair and remember those times as some of the tougher ones. By now, the pair controls a small area around the strait as well, having the toll-taking being done by the local Dragonborns, far offsrpings of them. Also, when they have a "small partner argument", the trade tends to stop, because such an argument, while still generally good-natured, still means there are two dragons p!ssed at each other.
Why do people always underestimate the experience factor when fighting things that were old before you were born. Any immortal would have the insane prowess at basically anything that is best demonstrated by time loop guys (if you've read pale then Ted is a terrifying example). A great example of this is in the mummy WoD game where you start out with 3x as much dots as characters from other game lines because the mummy is so old and experienced.
I always assume Metallic Dragons manifest their shapeshifting from viewing mortals and getting that yearning to mingle with them. Like a bird pushed off the nest to fly for the first time it just comes to them. Minus the bird possibly just falling and dying part.
Spoilers for Curse of Strahd. The concept behind that module's silver dragon Lord Argynvost as the head of a knightly order akin to the Templars or Hospitallers is intensely interesting to me. In real life, such knightly orders were obscenely wealthy because not only did the noblemen who joined their ranks donate everything they owned to the order as a prerequisite to join, but also the orders received massive amounts of what we call today "large quantity small donor" donations from common folk who supported their cause (protecting pilgrims to the Holy Land). The Templars literally became some of the most powerful bankers of their time, while the Hospitallers spent some of their excess capital running hospitals (origin of the name). And this is all before the plunder that these organizations, ahem, liberated while on campaign. Lord Argynvost probably would have had a mind-boggling hoard as the leader of such an organization.
Only thing I don't like about this is the idea of metallic dragons doing anything remotely shady, untoward, or cruel, to gain their wealth. As said, they are good. They are not greedy individuals nor malicious. They would not be loan sharks that will eat you for not paying back your debts, because that would be more akin to evil and Bahamut, their creator and king, would not be pleased. Additionally this is also ignoring that metallics tend to be more isolated, save for Silvers.
I once built a homebrew where the dwarven nobility were all hald-dragons, and the dwarven cities were all ruled by a dynasty of dragons in dwarven polymorph form. Sort of a secret version of the landed gentry concept describedbin the video.
One thing I think about a lot is how cloud giants in particular would meddle with dragons and their mutual interest in humanoid markets and wealth. Dragons arent without competition, and building wealth is exactly what cloud giants specialize in within The Ordning. Giants typically don't like dragons very much, and I can imagine cloud giants being very petty about it, especially if a dragon influences a market away from their favor. Cloud giants might not live as long as dragons, but 400 years is still quite a bit of time to build experience; especially when it's a family business they dedicate their entire craft into. A dragon could help fund a countries war effort, but a cloud giant could do the same for the other side. Reports of a dragon guarding trade caravans or merchant ships, giants may take a very vested interest in that. Cloud giants might even compete in contests with other cloud giants on wether or not they could undermine a dragons finances. Cloud giants would likely be just as protective of their business investments as dragons might be, which puts them in direct competition with something makes dragons a good idea to work with. I can imagine there being a lot of businessmen who might consider working with a dragon to be too great a risk if it was ever found out, which creates an interesting dynamic with competing factions.
I love the idea of a 'dynasty' of wealthy merchants, nobles or even kings developing. Traveling merchant makes a fortune does some nice things then wonders of comes back decades later claiming to be his son. Or Imagine it could explain the existence of extraordinarily long lived kings or emperors. Maybe people think their wise entrepreneurial ruler who founded an empire rules for centuries and has an odd habit of hoarding wealth is blessed by gods. Then when he 'dies' he is put in a mountain tomb. The adventurers decide to 'explore' his tomb to find that the emperor isn't dead but a massive metallic dragon
One other aspect of bronze dragons is that they're more than willing to accompany armies into battle if the cause is just and the pay is good. Such a disposition would be amenable to a mercenary captain who may have enough coin, clout, natural charisma and military experience to finance and lead very... lucrative campaigns to that end.
The Dragon as a wealth hoarding powerful business owner plays out in Shadowrun. At least one of the global conglomerates has a Dragon at the head of it.
Now I just wanna make a port city with a goofy fisherman wearing dungarees and sandals that dives into the ocean and disappears under the surface and transforms into a bronze dragon when he's done fishing for the day
I always characterise dragons as almost eldritch beings, immortals just wouldn't have the same priorities as mortals, they have all the time in the world to do things so why wait?
So firstly: Bronzes are an objectively excellent choice, but Silver dragons best dragons. Yes, I am biased. Second, and I hate that this feels like undercutting, but at least in previous edition lore *all* dragons can eat *anything* . They *prefer* , typically, to dine like obligate carnivores and apex predators, but none of them *have* to. They can survive off of dirt, canonically. This is part of the reason Silvers' favorite food is "whatever humanoids make". And what makes Chromatics such bastards. Now with this said, an addendum to the whole excellent video: while they are universally proud, imperious creatures, being "good" by any definition that matters requires some level of altruism. Which is to say that those banks the dragons might run? They're going to innately be much less...horrifically exploitative than many examples in the real world, if the dragons in question maintain any input on their operation. If you use plot elements like this, you're literally handing yourself a reason things in your setting can be *better* than they otherwise might be. All the selfishness of mortalkind, and hordes of monsters and fiends exerting influence besides? Well, incredibly powerful creatures who live longer than humans can really parse time have their talons on the levers of power and a *genetic* -level interest in making things better. Why yes, I *am* making this a key aspect of the scifi game I'm running now. I always love videos like this. There's a little kid in me who picked up a NES game with a Bronze, Silver and Gold playable in it, then a high schooler who bought a Monster Manual and found the Silvers were better even than they'd always thought. And videos like this make them sing.
Good does not presuppose altruism, unless you think colonialism is altruistic, but i digress. Unless the dragon is the sole proprietor, they require humanoid employees, therefore no difference between them and real banks.
@@armorclasshero2103 "The difference between good and evil, between right and wrong, is as simple as the difference between helping and harming." Everything else is details. There is no other metric in all of human history that ever has, or ever will, matter. And because you mentioned colonialism, no, socially-conditioned belief in obvious, blatant harm is not an argument worth anyone's time. Ditto Kant's "No true good action if someone knows they're doing it" argument: it's cute, but meaningless in reality. In the case of banks, dragons being both socially AND genetically predisposed to empathy and helping is an element likely to act as a check on bad behavior of an institution. Assuming, like I said, active involvement on their part.
@@Pyre Gygax literally publicly described the genocide of native americans as lawful good. Alignment has been a bankrupt concept from the beginning. Also, the bioessentialism you seem to ascribe to is based in eugenics, another thing Gygax liked.
@@armorclasshero2103 Golly it's almost like creators can have bad takes on things, that are obviously bad takes both at the time and later. EDIT: Also, literal seconds spent on Google says you are hilariously misinterpreting the quote in question. Though it still does invoke the "evil species" argument that, goodness, the game has been wrestling with since its inception. And the 'bioessentialism I ascribe to' is literally the lore. Metallic dragons are *inherently* predisposed to act benevolently toward/ help others. This is a perfectly reasonable thing for a *fantasy* game to have, though the thorny politics of it in places has resulted in some alternatingly haphazard or clever editing as time has gone on: the answer to the "Are baby orcs evil?" question ended up being no. Gnolls in current RAW are not really 'people', but a side effect of demonic incursion and can only think and behave accordingly. Drow are in fact just badly influenced by an evil deity and their society. That people can have bad takes on alignment is also an incredibly ancient problem, aaand has never once invalidated the system itself? And thinking it does is a really bizarre solution to land on. I'd apologize for being a bit harsh, but you come across like you need to catch up. None of this is hard.
@@Pyre bioessentialism in the lore or otherwise is morally and ethically wrong. And leaning on it to support any argument is axiomatically eugenics by definition.
I think you meant to say: dragon royalty breeders! Ruling is hard and dangerous, but if you've been breeding a couple strains of humans for the last 15 generations to do it for you (and be pretty good at it), it's like all the benefits and none of the work/risk. Dragons would make epic breeders of anything besides elves really.
@@oldmankatan7383 Now there's a dragon hoard: a royal family and its accoutrements and its wealth. Why loot gold when the mortals can accumulate it for you?
Sensational adaptive conception of the oriental archetype in urban environments! It complements her mythologically inspired bases quite well! I loved your review of the details of the repercussions of its subtle influence on the socio-cultural, the different habits of each specimen and that in a certain way they resemble the chromatics, only with very peculiar differences in charisma! Great visualization as bank merchants, charlatans poets and empowered warriors!! I don't even want to imagine in the case of Giants, fairy entities and other entities with magical links!
Hey Tom, a head's-up: the Chromatic Dragons link doesn't show up on the video-in fact I've searched RUclips and your channel separately and it seems to have vanished! PS about video requests: While I'm not a D&D player I love your videos, well, I love dragons and imagining a world from a dragon's perspective-in a sensible and realistic way. Some of your points made me think and crave more information to ponder. I've searched thoroughly but if any videos of more than a year old exist, they don't show up/ seem to be non-existant. Only two videos with "Dragon" in the title are visible: this one and the "PLEASE Don't make Dragons Boring!" one, can't find the Chromatic Dragons video you mentioned at all. I'd really like your take on a dragon's perspective centered world as well as more Dragon types lore and wish we could view the one about Chromatics and hope you'd be willing to make the Crystal Dragons video you mentioned here; I'm especially interested in those and the lore you and D&D could bring to the table. Would you please make more content about Dragons? Cheers and thank you for the videos you've made (that I can see) so far, Cearon.
I know that DnD has rules that say metal armor is bad against lightning, so that’s how it works in the game. However, you do know that a suit of full plate armor is basically a faraday cage, right? The majority of the electricity will take the most conductive path, which would be the steel that goes AROUND the person. I know, magic blah blah. But if magical control over the lightning stops at the other persons skin, then full plate would be very protective.
Why so msny fantasy world fall into the trap of assigning personslities and alligments to whole species? Even Tolkien did. How will all brass dragons be talkative? If their brains sre advanced enough to talk they are advanced enough to have individual personalities. Maybe they crave "human" connection but that doesn't make all of the talkative.
Why so msny fantasy world fall into the trap of assigning personslities and alligments to whole species? Even Tolkien did. How will all brass dragons be talkative? If their brains sre advanced enough to talk they are advanced enough to have individual personalities. Maybe they crave "human" connection but that doesn't make all of the talkative.
In my mind if Silver dragons are the most likely to like humanoid creatures than the most numerous type of draconic sorcerr should be silver. A singluar male silver dragon with enough time and willingness could easilly be responsible for the existence of an entire phenotype.
This inpired me to make a magic item Channeling rod Rod, very rare. (Requires Attunement) This electrum Rod counts as a +1 quarter staff The rod has 4 charges. You can use your action to expend a charge to channel all incoming electricity within 15 feet into the rod. Ranged attacks or spell that deal lightning damage that target a creature or object within the effected area target the rod instead. Area effects do not deal lightning damage within the effected area and line spells or breath weapons the deal lightning damage are cut short by the effected area (example, a lightning bolt spell would not pass þrough the effected area) When you expend the rods last charge, roll a d20. On a 1, the rod crumbles in nonmagical dust and is destroyed. The rod regains 1d4 charges at dawn
Its true that draconic politics could shape the world. But also, its should be noted until couple centuries ago, all dragons were subjected to dracorage mithal. Draconic civilization was anahilated, and dragons were forced to solitary life style, until very recently. And slowly, they begin their rise back. Hense, Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat adventures.
I nominate a few names for said companies; Adventure Capital Investments Relic Investments Baggs Holdings Inc. Goldson & Squire's Derrick's Dungeoneering Consolidated Kobold Dynamics Holy Wood Light and Magic Djinnetic Engineering PTY LTD DemonDyne
19:30 I disagree that Metallic Dragons are more likely to die. Chromatic Dragons are more likely to be hunted by adventurers, it's a wonder there are any of them left at all.
I just dont think humanoid civilization would get much past Conan the Barbarian stage of development. While dragons themselves are analogies for empires. Unless a specific dragon wanted to cultivate humanoids for some greater purpose, humanoids would be constantly trying to hunt dragons for survival. That puts them in the middle of wars against dragons and giants. Furthermore i really think the chromatic dragons would not tolerate it.
I think dragons should be too alien to describe so commonly. For one, all civilization would exist at the pleasure of Dragon politics. The very shape of civilizations would be molded to Dragon patron personalities
I interpreted the chromatic personalities as: xenophobic (black), manipulative/controlling (green), vain (blue), tyrannical/destructive (red) and feral/instinctual (white). While these things still all bleed into each other a bit there are some opposites. Black dragons are least likely to play well with others, while green dragons are most likely. A blue dragon is prideful of its looks even more so than it's power, as opposed to a red dragon. White dragons are bullies because they are used to being low on the food chain (considering other dragons and giants), while red dragons are tyrannical because they know they have the power to back it up.
Years ago, I had a silver dragon PC that reached max level and "retired" into NPC status. I had him start an adventurer's guild. lol So I agree 100% with your assessment of silver dragons and their activities! I would love to see a gem dragon version of this still, as well.
Metallic dragons are my favorite category of true dragon in D&D. Everything about them lends to rich characterization. I do think the video is perhaps a bit too judgmental of Golds, though. They are certainly beings of power, but I think it is a bit much to say they'd destroy "any" political system. Democracy for example, especially representative democracies, would work out really well with a Gold at the helm. You'd be hard-pressed to find someone more wise for a politician, which would translate to very well-thought-out national policies. If the dragon was say elected president, you can't tell me with a straight face that Gold wouldn't want some checks and balances against its own influence, to prevent tyranny! Their sense of incorruptibility may sting market interests here and there, but their sense of justice would provide a very stable foundation for enterprises to rely on as well. TL;DR Interesting discussion on how Metallic dragons could fit into a setting, but I don't think Golds would be universally "bad" for human society.
I'd like to see Gem dragons and, although not officially in 5e, ferrus and specifically Obsidian dragons. I find it difficult to wrap my head around just how intelligent Obsidian dragons are and how I could implement them
I love a lot of these ideas, but I think a lot of them require breaking away from the assigned "alignment" of dragons. You say that altruism and goodness are not the same thing, but I would seriously challenge that - I think altruism is the closest thing we have to a philosophy of "good", just as objectivisim is the closest thing to a philosophy of "evil". While a metallic dragon may be psychologically compelled to amass a hoard, if it were to do so through predatory and harmful means (such as lending for personal profit), it would no longer be a "good" creature. For-profit rentiers are Neutral at best!
Imagine a fuddly old dragon that doesn't quite trust or understand new technology. And by new, I mean anything that was invented in the last 500 years. Or a dragon that's just a bit thick. Perhaps the best they can offer is transport. Hauling a cargo of spices back and forth between distant lands.
I'm surprised I'm not already subscribed to you. I just watched your video about Christmas in fantasy and picked this one as another one to watch while I finished walking the dog and making breakfast. Then at the end of the video I realized that I had not subscribed even though your stuff is consistently good. Don't worry that's been remedied.
New BBEG idea: An orphan brass dragon that got taken in by a purple dragon family (yes they actually do have families) that now monologues when ever they capture the party.
Sounds like how Dragons are handled in "Prince Division". It's not the focus of this modern fantasy campaign and the DM departed from the chromatic/metallic alignment and personality confinements. it's up on youtube to check out
Shouldn't a humanoid dragon have a different diet and less calories to consume? That means they could avoid burning through livestock and wild animals.
obviously lightning breath in D&D does whatever it does. I will say I'm not convinced by the idea that metal armor is weak to electrical attacks. If anything, it should act like a Faraday cage. Cars and even bicycles offer a degree of protection from electrical hazards because they redirect the current around them and equilibrate the current across their metal exterior, leaving everyone inside or on them typically unharmed. A bicycle wouldn't help against a direct strike, but a suit of metal armor actually might, and a car almost completely neutralizes the threat of direct lightning strikes.
Dragons could be the easiest "quest givers": adventurers could be tasked with salvaging a failing investment or collecting on a debt on behalf of her dragon. Likewise, the party could systematically "pitch" their ideas in a literal _dragon's den_ to get funding and protection on their quests. Heck, it would be an original way to start a game: instead of meeting in a tavern, the players' characters are all hired by a dragon banker as a task force to retrieve some treasure, investigate an insurance claim or impact a market. Logically, States should exist primarily around dragons. The first duty of a country is defence: political power stems from protection first and foremost.
Just imagine an "open" dragon that a community trusts, having half-breed children to enrich the population with sorcerers because mages are valuable. And an adventuring party's bard sees the woman they were flirting with walk up to the local dragon with no fear and call it "Grandpa". His buddies proceed to tackle and tie him up, all the way to the blacksmith to ask for a chastity belt.
Perhaps Dragons have existed for long enough that ancient civilization, say similar to our world's bronze age, had significant involvement from metallics in that era, and the destabilization they wrought was so thorough, and determined by the majority of metallics to be somewhat detrimental to the mortal races, that they have established laws among their own kind as to how much interference is considered acceptable. Perhaps clauses for a duration of an identity, or perhaps a need to divest from certain markets before their power becomes too outsized in a mortal society. These laws would likely be unknown to mortals, but perhaps strictly enforced by certain metallics, and likely, followed within a certain margin of error by others.
This view of Metallics would also very much serve to heighten the superstition and repute of the 'cruel, alien, unstoppable' Giant. Storm Giants and Hill Giants regardless of their own nurtured kindness have a cultural biological disdain and wish to hunt *all* Dragons. Crushing young influencial Silvers, Coppers, and Bronzes. Creating Horde bubbles and adventuresome investments that warrant the existence of lv16+ Dungeons.
Love the idea of the unique friendship between a human(oid) bard who was the only one with the courage to speak up against a copper's bullshit and said dragon, impressed by the audacity.
An idea I thought of was metallic dragons Because. They're usually good aligned. Would help people? And as a result, those individuals could become. nobles or merchants or even monarchs, depending on. how much help they get from said metallic dragon. For example, let's say a warrior Whether they are aware of it or not, the. befriends a silver dragon Because the Warrior saved their life or. some other reason. So the silver dragon gives them some gold from their horde And because of that the. warrior in question. effectively ascends to noble status. and as a result, that noble house Would have a draconic motif. like a dragon on the coat of arms and A lot of draconic imagery within the estate.
I'm playing a drow draconic sorceror with a silver dragon bloodline. Long ago a silver dragon helped a group of Eilistraean drow escape the Underdark and settle on the surface. He spent many decades living among them in drow form and took many lovers, siring many children. These surface drow have a sorceror's guild to train those that are born with the gift.
I really feel like the World of Warcraft dragons were heavily designed upon the metallic dragons, as most of them are good aligned and the ones that werent were black dragons corrupted by the Old Gods. Up until Dragonflight, all the protodragons (chromatics) were enemies and generally regarded as either unintelligent or so far above the mortal races that they regarded us as not worth speaking to.
In my personal opinion, I hate bronze dragons with a burning passion. According to people like mr rhexx, they are extremely self righteous and dont understand moral grey areas. A poor man will try to sneak food for himself and his family but all the bronze dragon will see is a thief who broke the law and will enact punishment.
The more noble and trustworthy of metallic dragons could also serve as long-term guardians and trustees of other people’s funds. For example, in my world of Firma, after the prophet Imredim won a great war against a neighboring empire, he ordered a university built and handed the spoils of battle over to a mated pair of silver dragons as an endowment to keep the university running in perpetuity. The dragons invest the horde in camel caravans and merchant shipping, much as you described, so it generates enough wealth to pay the professors and maintain the lecture halls and library without diminishing the hoard. Imredim ordered that students who passed the entrance exam should not have to pay any tuition. In the centuries since Imredim died, the dragons have held to the letter of this decree, but they started allowing students who failed the exam to study too, if they paid a “contribution” to the hoard first. Now many students accuse the dragons of raising the exam standards too high so as to get more students to fail the exams and get more contributions.
The dragon at SOME poing learns how to shapeshift? This is why i play Pathfinder. Literally, every dragon in 1E had a small list of age categories and the powers they got at it.
14:30 thats a historical misconception, medieval times debt was linked to the family, since countries didnt actually exist as we see today, as a colective of people that organize and structure comunity, countries were a colective of families that created comunities, meaning that the families would pay the deeds instead of the farmers and etc, wich actually makes sense, it is but in the modern era that debt started to be atributed to countries and most important winners, for example when france aquired alsace from the war with germans they actually paid the alsace debt, while the prussians didnt do the same while acquiring new lands by that decade, same for example for WW 1 were the loser was meant to pay the debt of the winner we saw how that wasnt feasible since a country cant and most importantly WONT pay its debts when the populace is unhappy, so for a dragon to make interest a most reasonable take would be to lend money to family heads wich would make its lease really rare and kind of a favor in the human eyes. it could be possible for the dragon to FORCE the country to pay but it wouldnt be efficient since it could force a post WW1 scenario where the country fails to get back togheter and actually starts to opose the dragon, wich is a financial and reputation failure in the long run, so succesful dragons would not do that.
In most fantasy dragons are considered intelligent. Very intelligent. Which means they are intelligent enough to know that causing attention will only attract adventurers to want to slay it. Dragons are also typically very rich. How do they get there? Do they rob people of gold? Combining that would mean a dragon should know of their power and just deal with the nearby village. Not going there to steal cows for a snack, but buy them. And the village gives cows in return for protection. And since the dragon is seen as a protector, no call goes to to "save us from the dragon". Sure, any dragon of respectable size could just force the villagers to give up the cows, but why alienate your neighbors if you can be profitable together. In fact, the village with a nearby dragon should be safe from bandits and orc warbands. The villagers give food and the promise not to call for knights to slay the dragon, and the dragon protects the village from dangers. Sounds like a pretty good deal.
I feel like you have the food situation backwards. Gold Dragons are the one who eat a hard to replace resources, and are a literal drain on wealth, which will consume far more money than the cost of other dragons buying enough livestock.
I love the idea of a dragon baby sitting a convoy.
"Ummm, mystical powerful beast as old as time and powerful as a country, we appreciate your kindness but how will we every repay you for protecting us?"
"Repay? I'm the majority shareholder in this venture, now get back on the road before I cut your salaries for delaying us too long"
I now Picture Edgeworth from. Phoenix Wright as a disguised dragon, and that's why he gets to cut Gumshoo's salary
@@JJSquirtle I wasnt expecting a Phoenix Write reference in a D&D channel
@@Tata-ps4gy fair
I have to disagree with dragon-controlled markets bubbling like our markets do. Dragons live for thousands of years and so they would likely go for long term income over short term spikes. And the first CEO to sugest gutting the company to boost their stock price would probably get eaten .
I was in this case referring to a commodities bubble, which is different from our modern stock bubbles because there's no single company inflating its stock price. Instead, we see a group (here, Dragons) severely overvaluing a specific commodity, artificially inflating prices above what the market can sustain, and watching as the value of the commodity drops out from beneath them as one or two start to sell everything.
It's happened many times, for things from tulips (although that was more complex) to NFT's. You don't need price gouging, just a public perception that a thing has significant value.
@@Grungeon_Master with their long lives and superior mental accuity they are far less likely to fall for a comoddities bubble, at least more than once, and older dragons would probably mediate the markets to not lose out the way they maybe did as a wyrmling
The less moral ones would probably have a grand old time instigating bubbles and raking in the GP for humanoids, though.
A great wyrm sitting on a pile of flint nodules convinced they will make a comeback some day is an amazing image, though
Markets are inherently unstable and they cannot last forever without serious wealth redistribution. There is a finite amount of wealth and if you need it to survive, and someone is collecting all of it, that can't last. Dtagons live on a timescale to see that effect. Thier goal may be to actually accure everything and transition to pure dictatorship. Or they may prefer to demonitize a society in order to aquire the riches of a society when they no longer value things like gold
@@Serbobiv123 Could be demented or special dumb dragons that do this.
The ultra wealthy actually profit massively form these market cycles and crashes. They have the capital to weather the storm long enough to buy up everything for cheap. Dragons would try to make these crashes as bad as possible to ride these cycles just like our dragons irl do.
I could see a turn of phrase developing around Silver Dragons, "Don't rely on the kindness of Silver," which would be to say, that a Silver Dragon's protection and prosperity may be welcomed, but it should not be the bedrock of your kingdom.
It probably has developed after some particularly nasty incidents of relying on the Silver backfiring on the population horribly.
@@Alche_mist Totally, and not always at the fault of the Silver. I can imagine a Silver Dragon safeguarding a great city only for them to turn militaristic and haughty. Silver Dragon disappears (not because of any real behavioral grievances, Silver Dragons just do that some times) and the city tries to cash a conflict check they have no money in the bank for.
I would expect the dragon to not just create the market but instead act as sort of a superweapon. We give the dragon money (gold, silver, gems, whatever that particular dragon likes in the hoard), and in return the dragon helps in our military efforts.
The peasants fear chromatic dragons and the rich folk fear the metallic dragons
A BBEG taking the form of an ancient dragon wreaking havoc manipulating markets and instigating wars could be potentially terrifying, as slaying a dragon that is so entrenched in the world markets might result in a worldwide economic collapse… whether by absence, or via contingencies to screw over competitors in case of an assassination.
I can already imagine that dragon being a chromatic dragon in a steampunk or dieselpunk type of setting were they are essentially a weapons manufacturer that's highly involved in several military contracts for multiple countries thus making the leaders of these countries declaring that slaying it is illegal as the free kobold labor it uses helps pump out tons of guns, tanks planes and what ever else they need is just to useful, even during peace times, so killing it can also result in your players being ruthlessy hunted down by many, many pissed off world governments and other adventurers. (Free kobold labor can also explain how it got involved with other rich people/corpos)
I’ve always liked the idea that Silver Dragons are the Gandalfs of the world. Ancient, wise, and immensely powerful beings mingling with mortals in an unassuming form, to advice and guide heroes to succeed against evil, rather than being the one leading the charge
In 3.5/Pathfinder silver dragons have a distinctly Paladin-esq characterization. They even have the ability to treat divine spells as sorcerer spells they can learn with their effective sorcerer levels and an at-will detect evil ability (a 3.5/Pathfinder paladin class feature).
also as a shapechanging intelligent dragon, you can easily have your starting capital, you just have to sell your old scales or teeth that comme loose of your body, these stuffs have a high price
If being in humanoid form gives you a humanoid metabolism, it wouldn't surprise me if some dragons spend a lot of time in that smaller form just to save money on food, or just to be able to be full after one standard person's meal
It'd be interesting if they still kept a full carnivore diet or even in the gold dragon's situation, money diet. "Hey Frank, why do you always order nothing but steak at the tavern and refuse bread at the campfires during adventures?"
Or with a gold dragon "You ever seen that nobleman over there eat anything at all?" "No, but I do see him nibbling on gold coins often. They SAY it's to test their authenticity but I swear I once glimpsed him swallowing one whole!"
I’d imagine it as they can sustain their lives in that form on a human diet, perhaps even feel satiated though perhaps capable of eating to their draconic full capacity, but they may have issues sustaining things like their magic, or when they revert to their dragon forms they end up lethargic and ravenous if they didn’t stuff themselves silly in human form.
It's mentioned in earlier editions that this isn't the case, unfortunately for them. Specifically steel dragons, which live entire human lifetimes in disguise, have to transform every month or so and go hunting to satisfy their appetite. They don't use up as much energy in humanoid form as draconic form though, so regular meals can still do a good job of supplementing these occasional large hunts.
A few thoughts that came up in this description.
The difference in east and west views on good dragons could make for an interesting story if due to travel difficulties no metallic dragons have been to the local continent or part of the continent and as such the locals only know dragons that want to kill them, the very first metallic dragon doing market research may be difficult to play due to the power level but it certainly wouldn't be boring.
In a more established setting with dragon merchant princes, I could imagine it be common for ships and caravans to fly the heraldry of an associated dragon to warn others to back off much like merchants have flown national colours, as in real life it is possible this could bring more danger depending on the patron especially in this care if there is more violent competition between dragons that find destroyed their competitors ships a less dangerous means of confrontation than a straight up fight.
For the local Silver dragon dying and leaving the region undefended, I could only imagine the local authority issuing the vital quest for a matchmaker to set up this dragon and produce an heir, although I guess working out how to manage any territoriality disputes between the parent and offspring until the parent dies whilst keeping the offspring nearby might be a challenge.
In my world, a copper dragon is associated with a particular country's trade caravans. He travels as a human merchant, but if his caravan is facing an undo threat, he will shift into dragon form and intimidate the threat off. Usually he allows the guards to handle it. He last did this when Griffins came and threatened to take his horses off and the copper dragon had had enough of that.
If the dragons are smart enough, the heir would wait until it's their turn. Or just try to make the current dragon ruler die in an accident.
id love to hear gem dragons/other random spells like druidic that can tell the weather
This! Gem dragons deserve a place in every setting and channel!
What’s that you say? Bias? Pffft never that 😉
Could you make a video on Chromatic Dragons that is as comprehensive as this one? the "Your Dragons are Bland" vid is more about how dragons influence your worldbuilding, not the dragons themselves.
The idea of good vampires is also alluring.
It's a very good idea... I think the reason I didn't include a section detailing the specific types of chromatic is because I felt less inspired by their specific personalities/quirks.
Certainly worth a revisit, as what fails to inspire one day may inspire the next.
Maybe there'll be a vampire video in the far future, we'll have to see! I've certainly used them enough in my games
@Grungeon_Master chromatic dragons have excellent personality quirks. For starters they are the highest born. The most ancient and pure bloodline.
While Bahamut disgrace Dragonkind and befouls himself by spending most his time humanoid. Chromatic relish their Draco form
They are the epitome of militant, elitist and racist.
While the Metallics maybe cultivated civilization the Chromatics love to eat them and genocide them. They have no use for lesser beings and this brings them into conflict with their more benevolent kin
Even if a country is completely taken over the new owner often pays off the old country's debt to stay on the creditors' good side
Lol, no. They make a payment plan. Zero countries have no debt. Modern economics requires countries to carry some debt forever.
@@armorclasshero2103 In reference to historical times, OP is correct. Conquerors honored the vanquished's debts more often than you'd expect because it helped preserve the stability of the lending market to ensure that those creditors would be available and willing to loan to them in the future if needed. This wasn't universal; creditors could also just get shafted for betting on the wrong side, and sometimes kings would just seize the wealth of banking families outright.
@@carsonm7292 as far as I'm aware, that was only ever really done consistently by the spanish, but i could be wrong
@@carsonm7292 it also helped legitimizing the conqueror. Sure the kingdom is under new management, but nothing else changed. The new ruler honors the deal like the old one, so you should have no trouble accepting their authority. A very important part in succession is acting like a successor, because that way the outside will accept you.
Metal armor would actually be more effective against lightning breath than non-metal armor. As the metal surrounding your body is more conductive than your body and will therefore direct the current around you, rather than through you: ruclips.net/video/eNxDgd3D_bU/видео.htmlsi=3O9gW9-BwBCGpX3i
Today, faraday suits (a modern analog to chain mail) are worn by those working on power lines.
Crazy how you pump out a long and thoughtful video every week. Keep it going, I’ve been loving these
Thanks! I appreciate it! Plenty more ideas in the ol' head (although I can't keep making them as large as this video lol).
-Tom
This discussion makes me think of a dragon NPC who serves as a financial advisor to other Dragons and runs a company that just manages wealth. But that dragon is "work averse" as well, so they employ a bunch of Humanoids (and a few young Dragons) that do the busy work and book keeping.
Lots of adventure-adjacent plot hooks there!
I have two funny images in mind:
• a brass dragon similar to the granny from Majora's Mask who is inadvertently putting to sleep anyone to whom it speaks
• a gold dragon similar to the Hungry Tiger from Oz which is too Good to eat the treasure it needs
Dragons already spend most of their time organizing their hoard. So with the culture of dragons also focusing on building and maintaining the hoard above all else. Combine that with hundreds of years of experience and the fact that the hoard itself is magical and can turn items magical. I think they can handle it
I loved this. All I could think as I watched this was: all this assumes that dragons must be intensely averse to working together. Of course, many dragons are, but it only takes one example or two or more dragons developing true trust for one another and agreeing to a full partnership, and the game changes completely. Imagine a dragon that is great at organising and managing sitting at the centre of a vast trading empire, with another dragon protecting the most lucrative ventures in person. Their lairs are adjacent, even perhaps built as a single vast building with a wing each (no pun intended). Anyone opposing them has to face not one, but two of the most powerful creatures in existence. Not only does this make it less likely for humanoids adversaries to come against, it also acts as a fabulous defence against chromatic dragons.
And then imagine what happens if those two dragons mate, and hatch a few eggs together. And educate those dragons in the family business. Suddenly you have a guild run by the a whole lineage of powerful beings who will each individually outlive almost every humanoid working for them. and when the family head dies? The next dragon in line simply steps up to take over. With centuries (or millennia if you use older lore) to prepare for this, and with the oldest dragons being so much stronger than the younger ones, succession wars should be a rare thing - although when they did occur, that would be a global event.
And if one group of dragons can do it, others might seek to emulate them, to varying degrees of success. The differing strategies of each group could lead to many different kinds of stories, from dragon mafias and corporate wars, to courtly intrigue as the only successful draconic family business carefully vets potential mates for their children. And the different ways that humanoid societies can or can't interact with the different dragon families could lead to whole different set of worldbuilding questions.
Since they already own all the guilds and corps you can also have em expand theyr power even further by having them raise theyr other children into politicians or marry into the royal bloodlines thus allowing them to slowly corrupt the systems of the countries they operate in over time to conveniently always be in theyr favor.
Thank you once more. Confirms more of my own worldbuilding.
Always love how your explanations give me more than a few ideas!
I appreciate your work!
In my homebrew setting, Draconic is the language of academia, in part due to its association with magic and ancient knowledge, much like how Latin was used (and to an extent, still is, particularly in legal and scientific terminology) in our world. The idea of it being common among bards and poets too just makes this seem more likely.
I love this idea. You could set up a dichotomy where the Metallic Dragons are the Captains of Industry compared to the Chromatic Dragons' Robber Barons, and the two have conflicts both subtle and massive. Like if Joseph Whitworth and John Jacob Astor decided to beat the shit out of each other.
Well thought-out. A friend and I ran a campaign with a similar theme: dragons began taking an active interest in human / demihuman society. One of the first things they did was pool their resources and create a bank / investment company.
I once had the thought of a story about a Steel Dragon, which are known for living among humanoids, preferring plains, and their curiosity. They try their hand at different occupations to learn new skills, not just adventurer classes but civilian ones like tanners, bakers, etc. And libraries. They'd own massive libraries as part of their hoard, maybe running a printing business and keeping a handful of copies of each new book they make. My favorite idea however, was them being open about being a Dragon, and running a dungeon as a sort of gauntlet training challenge for adventurers, a safe distance from their actual lair. Perhaps allowing wargear and trinkets to mature into magical items in their hoard, then selling them for profit. Or maybe training manuals that turned into skill books while in the hoard.
you should do this with the oddity dragons, ie Song Dragons (my favorite D&D race btw)
Nations starting a dragon crusade to avoid paying back loans sounds like a fun idea.
And the dragon hiring whole nations as mercenaries creating a world war
This is brilliant. I have never included metallic dragons in any campaign but this seems like a cool way to incorporate a few of them in the future 🤩
Not the dragon depression and rise of dragon communism and a dragon cold war
If a dragon immerses itself THAT much in the lives of humans, some questions arise. What about elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc.? And if they spend so much time shapeshifted, are there half dragons running around somewhere?
In a world I'm currently building, there is this narrow strait (think along the lines of Bosporus) and its surroundings, dividing two power-hungry empires (think along the lines of Romans and Persians). As such, it would obviously be a strategically important point.
Now, here is the catch - neither of the empires goes all in to seize the strait and they actually trade through it rather peacefully and don't wage wars through that one. The reason being - a (mating) pair of dragons (a Gold and a Bronze - both amphibious) reside there and enforce the peace and the trade by their draconic might, mostly just taking a toll from the passing traders, but protecting "the other empire" viciously. Both of the empires tried to mount an attack on their neighbor through the strait. Both lost their fleet to the dragon pair and remember those times as some of the tougher ones.
By now, the pair controls a small area around the strait as well, having the toll-taking being done by the local Dragonborns, far offsrpings of them.
Also, when they have a "small partner argument", the trade tends to stop, because such an argument, while still generally good-natured, still means there are two dragons p!ssed at each other.
In today's episode of Accountants & Actuaries...
Markets & Mercantilists...
Undead & Underwriters...
Why do people always underestimate the experience factor when fighting things that were old before you were born.
Any immortal would have the insane prowess at basically anything that is best demonstrated by time loop guys (if you've read pale then Ted is a terrifying example). A great example of this is in the mummy WoD game where you start out with 3x as much dots as characters from other game lines because the mummy is so old and experienced.
23:30 "a copper dragon wiuld never be able to resist.." ..because copper is a good conductor?)
I always assume Metallic Dragons manifest their shapeshifting from viewing mortals and getting that yearning to mingle with them. Like a bird pushed off the nest to fly for the first time it just comes to them. Minus the bird possibly just falling and dying part.
Spoilers for Curse of Strahd. The concept behind that module's silver dragon Lord Argynvost as the head of a knightly order akin to the Templars or Hospitallers is intensely interesting to me. In real life, such knightly orders were obscenely wealthy because not only did the noblemen who joined their ranks donate everything they owned to the order as a prerequisite to join, but also the orders received massive amounts of what we call today "large quantity small donor" donations from common folk who supported their cause (protecting pilgrims to the Holy Land). The Templars literally became some of the most powerful bankers of their time, while the Hospitallers spent some of their excess capital running hospitals (origin of the name). And this is all before the plunder that these organizations, ahem, liberated while on campaign. Lord Argynvost probably would have had a mind-boggling hoard as the leader of such an organization.
Only thing I don't like about this is the idea of metallic dragons doing anything remotely shady, untoward, or cruel, to gain their wealth. As said, they are good. They are not greedy individuals nor malicious. They would not be loan sharks that will eat you for not paying back your debts, because that would be more akin to evil and Bahamut, their creator and king, would not be pleased. Additionally this is also ignoring that metallics tend to be more isolated, save for Silvers.
I would like to point out lazy is a good chromatic dragon personality, especially if you do good imitations of house cats. The party is the mice.
I once built a homebrew where the dwarven nobility were all hald-dragons, and the dwarven cities were all ruled by a dynasty of dragons in dwarven polymorph form. Sort of a secret version of the landed gentry concept describedbin the video.
One thing I think about a lot is how cloud giants in particular would meddle with dragons and their mutual interest in humanoid markets and wealth. Dragons arent without competition, and building wealth is exactly what cloud giants specialize in within The Ordning. Giants typically don't like dragons very much, and I can imagine cloud giants being very petty about it, especially if a dragon influences a market away from their favor. Cloud giants might not live as long as dragons, but 400 years is still quite a bit of time to build experience; especially when it's a family business they dedicate their entire craft into.
A dragon could help fund a countries war effort, but a cloud giant could do the same for the other side. Reports of a dragon guarding trade caravans or merchant ships, giants may take a very vested interest in that. Cloud giants might even compete in contests with other cloud giants on wether or not they could undermine a dragons finances. Cloud giants would likely be just as protective of their business investments as dragons might be, which puts them in direct competition with something makes dragons a good idea to work with.
I can imagine there being a lot of businessmen who might consider working with a dragon to be too great a risk if it was ever found out, which creates an interesting dynamic with competing factions.
I love the idea of a 'dynasty' of wealthy merchants, nobles or even kings developing. Traveling merchant makes a fortune does some nice things then wonders of comes back decades later claiming to be his son. Or Imagine it could explain the existence of extraordinarily long lived kings or emperors. Maybe people think their wise entrepreneurial ruler who founded an empire rules for centuries and has an odd habit of hoarding wealth is blessed by gods. Then when he 'dies' he is put in a mountain tomb. The adventurers decide to 'explore' his tomb to find that the emperor isn't dead but a massive metallic dragon
One other aspect of bronze dragons is that they're more than willing to accompany armies into battle if the cause is just and the pay is good. Such a disposition would be amenable to a mercenary captain who may have enough coin, clout, natural charisma and military experience to finance and lead very... lucrative campaigns to that end.
“Dragons would make one heck of a collections agent.”
I don’t care who the IRS sends, I’m not paying any taxes
The Dragon as a wealth hoarding powerful business owner plays out in Shadowrun. At least one of the global conglomerates has a Dragon at the head of it.
Most of them do.
Now I just wanna make a port city with a goofy fisherman wearing dungarees and sandals that dives into the ocean and disappears under the surface and transforms into a bronze dragon when he's done fishing for the day
It would be great if you made a similar video on gem dragons, I want to build world of my DnD campain around dragons and your work helps me very much
I always characterise dragons as almost eldritch beings, immortals just wouldn't have the same priorities as mortals, they have all the time in the world to do things so why wait?
So firstly: Bronzes are an objectively excellent choice, but Silver dragons best dragons. Yes, I am biased.
Second, and I hate that this feels like undercutting, but at least in previous edition lore *all* dragons can eat *anything* . They *prefer* , typically, to dine like obligate carnivores and apex predators, but none of them *have* to. They can survive off of dirt, canonically.
This is part of the reason Silvers' favorite food is "whatever humanoids make". And what makes Chromatics such bastards.
Now with this said, an addendum to the whole excellent video: while they are universally proud, imperious creatures, being "good" by any definition that matters requires some level of altruism.
Which is to say that those banks the dragons might run? They're going to innately be much less...horrifically exploitative than many examples in the real world, if the dragons in question maintain any input on their operation. If you use plot elements like this, you're literally handing yourself a reason things in your setting can be *better* than they otherwise might be.
All the selfishness of mortalkind, and hordes of monsters and fiends exerting influence besides? Well, incredibly powerful creatures who live longer than humans can really parse time have their talons on the levers of power and a *genetic* -level interest in making things better.
Why yes, I *am* making this a key aspect of the scifi game I'm running now.
I always love videos like this. There's a little kid in me who picked up a NES game with a Bronze, Silver and Gold playable in it, then a high schooler who bought a Monster Manual and found the Silvers were better even than they'd always thought. And videos like this make them sing.
Good does not presuppose altruism, unless you think colonialism is altruistic, but i digress. Unless the dragon is the sole proprietor, they require humanoid employees, therefore no difference between them and real banks.
@@armorclasshero2103 "The difference between good and evil, between right and wrong, is as simple as the difference between helping and harming." Everything else is details. There is no other metric in all of human history that ever has, or ever will, matter.
And because you mentioned colonialism, no, socially-conditioned belief in obvious, blatant harm is not an argument worth anyone's time. Ditto Kant's "No true good action if someone knows they're doing it" argument: it's cute, but meaningless in reality.
In the case of banks, dragons being both socially AND genetically predisposed to empathy and helping is an element likely to act as a check on bad behavior of an institution. Assuming, like I said, active involvement on their part.
@@Pyre Gygax literally publicly described the genocide of native americans as lawful good. Alignment has been a bankrupt concept from the beginning. Also, the bioessentialism you seem to ascribe to is based in eugenics, another thing Gygax liked.
@@armorclasshero2103 Golly it's almost like creators can have bad takes on things, that are obviously bad takes both at the time and later.
EDIT: Also, literal seconds spent on Google says you are hilariously misinterpreting the quote in question. Though it still does invoke the "evil species" argument that, goodness, the game has been wrestling with since its inception.
And the 'bioessentialism I ascribe to' is literally the lore. Metallic dragons are *inherently* predisposed to act benevolently toward/ help others. This is a perfectly reasonable thing for a *fantasy* game to have, though the thorny politics of it in places has resulted in some alternatingly haphazard or clever editing as time has gone on: the answer to the "Are baby orcs evil?" question ended up being no. Gnolls in current RAW are not really 'people', but a side effect of demonic incursion and can only think and behave accordingly. Drow are in fact just badly influenced by an evil deity and their society.
That people can have bad takes on alignment is also an incredibly ancient problem, aaand has never once invalidated the system itself? And thinking it does is a really bizarre solution to land on.
I'd apologize for being a bit harsh, but you come across like you need to catch up. None of this is hard.
@@Pyre bioessentialism in the lore or otherwise is morally and ethically wrong. And leaning on it to support any argument is axiomatically eugenics by definition.
Most metallic dragons actually can eat things other than meat.
(Any/all)
I have had an idea for a silver dragon pc for a while now but I don’t think it’ll be particularly balanced.
What about the rarely mentioned platinum dragon?
Dragon kings, then, are almost inevitable.
I think you meant to say: dragon royalty breeders! Ruling is hard and dangerous, but if you've been breeding a couple strains of humans for the last 15 generations to do it for you (and be pretty good at it), it's like all the benefits and none of the work/risk.
Dragons would make epic breeders of anything besides elves really.
@@oldmankatan7383 Now there's a dragon hoard: a royal family and its accoutrements and its wealth. Why loot gold when the mortals can accumulate it for you?
Sensational adaptive conception of the oriental archetype in urban environments! It complements her mythologically inspired bases quite well! I loved your review of the details of the repercussions of its subtle influence on the socio-cultural, the different habits of each specimen and that in a certain way they resemble the chromatics, only with very peculiar differences in charisma! Great visualization as bank merchants, charlatans poets and empowered warriors!! I don't even want to imagine in the case of Giants, fairy entities and other entities with magical links!
Hey Tom, a head's-up: the Chromatic Dragons link doesn't show up on the video-in fact I've searched RUclips and your channel separately and it seems to have vanished!
PS about video requests:
While I'm not a D&D player I love your videos, well, I love dragons and imagining a world from a dragon's perspective-in a sensible and realistic way. Some of your points made me think and crave more information to ponder.
I've searched thoroughly but if any videos of more than a year old exist, they don't show up/ seem to be non-existant. Only two videos with "Dragon" in the title are visible: this one and the "PLEASE Don't make Dragons Boring!" one, can't find the Chromatic Dragons video you mentioned at all.
I'd really like your take on a dragon's perspective centered world as well as more Dragon types lore and wish we could view the one about Chromatics and hope you'd be willing to make the Crystal Dragons video you mentioned here; I'm especially interested in those and the lore you and D&D could bring to the table. Would you please make more content about Dragons?
Cheers and thank you for the videos you've made (that I can see) so far,
Cearon.
I know that DnD has rules that say metal armor is bad against lightning, so that’s how it works in the game. However, you do know that a suit of full plate armor is basically a faraday cage, right? The majority of the electricity will take the most conductive path, which would be the steel that goes AROUND the person. I know, magic blah blah. But if magical control over the lightning stops at the other persons skin, then full plate would be very protective.
Why so msny fantasy world fall into the trap of assigning personslities and alligments to whole species? Even Tolkien did. How will all brass dragons be talkative? If their brains sre advanced enough to talk they are advanced enough to have individual personalities. Maybe they crave "human" connection but that doesn't make all of the talkative.
Why so msny fantasy world fall into the trap of assigning personslities and alligments to whole species? Even Tolkien did. How will all brass dragons be talkative? If their brains sre advanced enough to talk they are advanced enough to have individual personalities. Maybe they crave "human" connection but that doesn't make all of the talkative.
In my mind if Silver dragons are the most likely to like humanoid creatures than the most numerous type of draconic sorcerr should be silver. A singluar male silver dragon with enough time and willingness could easilly be responsible for the existence of an entire phenotype.
This inpired me to make a magic item
Channeling rod
Rod, very rare. (Requires Attunement)
This electrum Rod counts as a +1 quarter staff
The rod has 4 charges. You can use your action to expend a charge to channel all incoming electricity within 15 feet into the rod. Ranged attacks or spell that deal lightning damage that target a creature or object within the effected area target the rod instead. Area effects do not deal lightning damage within the effected area and line spells or breath weapons the deal lightning damage are cut short by the effected area (example, a lightning bolt spell would not pass þrough the effected area)
When you expend the rods last charge, roll a d20. On a 1, the rod crumbles in nonmagical dust and is destroyed.
The rod regains 1d4 charges at dawn
Its true that draconic politics could shape the world.
But also, its should be noted until couple centuries ago, all dragons were subjected to dracorage mithal.
Draconic civilization was anahilated, and dragons were forced to solitary life style, until very recently.
And slowly, they begin their rise back. Hense, Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat adventures.
Gilded investments, silver savings banks, and copper prawn pawning and information brokers
I nominate a few names for said companies;
Adventure Capital Investments
Relic Investments
Baggs Holdings Inc.
Goldson & Squire's
Derrick's Dungeoneering Consolidated
Kobold Dynamics
Holy Wood Light and Magic
Djinnetic Engineering PTY LTD
DemonDyne
19:30 I disagree that Metallic Dragons are more likely to die. Chromatic Dragons are more likely to be hunted by adventurers, it's a wonder there are any of them left at all.
Patron a band of adventures with 'pocket change'. Metallic Dragon mafioso
I just dont think humanoid civilization would get much past Conan the Barbarian stage of development.
While dragons themselves are analogies for empires. Unless a specific dragon wanted to cultivate humanoids for some greater purpose, humanoids would be constantly trying to hunt dragons for survival.
That puts them in the middle of wars against dragons and giants.
Furthermore i really think the chromatic dragons would not tolerate it.
I think dragons should be too alien to describe so commonly.
For one, all civilization would exist at the pleasure of Dragon politics.
The very shape of civilizations would be molded to Dragon patron personalities
I'm just trying to get an apartment but Palarandusk says my DRACO credit score is insufficient as I only have 30years credit history smh
Dragons in several versions of d&d note that they can eat anything
I interpreted the chromatic personalities as: xenophobic (black), manipulative/controlling (green), vain (blue), tyrannical/destructive (red) and feral/instinctual (white). While these things still all bleed into each other a bit there are some opposites. Black dragons are least likely to play well with others, while green dragons are most likely. A blue dragon is prideful of its looks even more so than it's power, as opposed to a red dragon. White dragons are bullies because they are used to being low on the food chain (considering other dragons and giants), while red dragons are tyrannical because they know they have the power to back it up.
Years ago, I had a silver dragon PC that reached max level and "retired" into NPC status. I had him start an adventurer's guild. lol So I agree 100% with your assessment of silver dragons and their activities! I would love to see a gem dragon version of this still, as well.
Metallic dragons are my favorite category of true dragon in D&D. Everything about them lends to rich characterization. I do think the video is perhaps a bit too judgmental of Golds, though. They are certainly beings of power, but I think it is a bit much to say they'd destroy "any" political system. Democracy for example, especially representative democracies, would work out really well with a Gold at the helm. You'd be hard-pressed to find someone more wise for a politician, which would translate to very well-thought-out national policies. If the dragon was say elected president, you can't tell me with a straight face that Gold wouldn't want some checks and balances against its own influence, to prevent tyranny! Their sense of incorruptibility may sting market interests here and there, but their sense of justice would provide a very stable foundation for enterprises to rely on as well.
TL;DR Interesting discussion on how Metallic dragons could fit into a setting, but I don't think Golds would be universally "bad" for human society.
I'd like to see Gem dragons and, although not officially in 5e, ferrus and specifically Obsidian dragons. I find it difficult to wrap my head around just how intelligent Obsidian dragons are and how I could implement them
"I've talked for far longer than I should have..."
NO DO NOT STOP, KEEP FKING TALKING
I love a lot of these ideas, but I think a lot of them require breaking away from the assigned "alignment" of dragons.
You say that altruism and goodness are not the same thing, but I would seriously challenge that - I think altruism is the closest thing we have to a philosophy of "good", just as objectivisim is the closest thing to a philosophy of "evil".
While a metallic dragon may be psychologically compelled to amass a hoard, if it were to do so through predatory and harmful means (such as lending for personal profit), it would no longer be a "good" creature. For-profit rentiers are Neutral at best!
Imagine a fuddly old dragon that doesn't quite trust or understand new technology. And by new, I mean anything that was invented in the last 500 years.
Or a dragon that's just a bit thick.
Perhaps the best they can offer is transport.
Hauling a cargo of spices back and forth between distant lands.
I'm surprised I'm not already subscribed to you. I just watched your video about Christmas in fantasy and picked this one as another one to watch while I finished walking the dog and making breakfast. Then at the end of the video I realized that I had not subscribed even though your stuff is consistently good. Don't worry that's been remedied.
Copper dragons are my favorite of the metallic dragons. I like using Ferris dragons and gem dragons the most.
New BBEG idea: An orphan brass dragon that got taken in by a purple dragon family (yes they actually do have families) that now monologues when ever they capture the party.
Sounds like how Dragons are handled in "Prince Division". It's not the focus of this modern fantasy campaign and the DM departed from the chromatic/metallic alignment and personality confinements. it's up on youtube to check out
Shouldn't a humanoid dragon have a different diet and less calories to consume? That means they could avoid burning through livestock and wild animals.
Shapeshifters still need to eat according to their true form.
@@RipOffProductionsLLC why? Do they have their real Body stored somewhere in a Pocket universe? Doesn't make any sense to me
obviously lightning breath in D&D does whatever it does. I will say I'm not convinced by the idea that metal armor is weak to electrical attacks. If anything, it should act like a Faraday cage. Cars and even bicycles offer a degree of protection from electrical hazards because they redirect the current around them and equilibrate the current across their metal exterior, leaving everyone inside or on them typically unharmed. A bicycle wouldn't help against a direct strike, but a suit of metal armor actually might, and a car almost completely neutralizes the threat of direct lightning strikes.
Dragons could be the easiest "quest givers": adventurers could be tasked with salvaging a failing investment or collecting on a debt on behalf of her dragon. Likewise, the party could systematically "pitch" their ideas in a literal _dragon's den_ to get funding and protection on their quests. Heck, it would be an original way to start a game: instead of meeting in a tavern, the players' characters are all hired by a dragon banker as a task force to retrieve some treasure, investigate an insurance claim or impact a market.
Logically, States should exist primarily around dragons. The first duty of a country is defence: political power stems from protection first and foremost.
Just imagine an "open" dragon that a community trusts, having half-breed children to enrich the population with sorcerers because mages are valuable. And an adventuring party's bard sees the woman they were flirting with walk up to the local dragon with no fear and call it "Grandpa". His buddies proceed to tackle and tie him up, all the way to the blacksmith to ask for a chastity belt.
Perhaps Dragons have existed for long enough that ancient civilization, say similar to our world's bronze age, had significant involvement from metallics in that era, and the destabilization they wrought was so thorough, and determined by the majority of metallics to be somewhat detrimental to the mortal races, that they have established laws among their own kind as to how much interference is considered acceptable. Perhaps clauses for a duration of an identity, or perhaps a need to divest from certain markets before their power becomes too outsized in a mortal society. These laws would likely be unknown to mortals, but perhaps strictly enforced by certain metallics, and likely, followed within a certain margin of error by others.
This view of Metallics would also very much serve to heighten the superstition and repute of the 'cruel, alien, unstoppable' Giant. Storm Giants and Hill Giants regardless of their own nurtured kindness have a cultural biological disdain and wish to hunt *all* Dragons. Crushing young influencial Silvers, Coppers, and Bronzes. Creating Horde bubbles and adventuresome investments that warrant the existence of lv16+ Dungeons.
Love the idea of the unique friendship between a human(oid) bard who was the only one with the courage to speak up against a copper's bullshit and said dragon, impressed by the audacity.
Thanks, now any player is going to automatically suspect that every inexplicably wealthy merchant is a dragon in disguise.
An idea I thought of was metallic dragons Because. They're usually good aligned. Would help people? And as a result, those individuals could become. nobles or merchants or even monarchs, depending on. how much help they get from said metallic dragon. For example, let's say a warrior Whether they are aware of it or not, the. befriends a silver dragon Because the Warrior saved their life or. some other reason. So the silver dragon gives them some gold from their horde And because of that the. warrior in question. effectively ascends to noble status. and as a result, that noble house Would have a draconic motif. like a dragon on the coat of arms and A lot of draconic imagery within the estate.
I'm playing a drow draconic sorceror with a silver dragon bloodline. Long ago a silver dragon helped a group of Eilistraean drow escape the Underdark and settle on the surface. He spent many decades living among them in drow form and took many lovers, siring many children. These surface drow have a sorceror's guild to train those that are born with the gift.
I really feel like the World of Warcraft dragons were heavily designed upon the metallic dragons, as most of them are good aligned and the ones that werent were black dragons corrupted by the Old Gods. Up until Dragonflight, all the protodragons (chromatics) were enemies and generally regarded as either unintelligent or so far above the mortal races that they regarded us as not worth speaking to.
In my personal opinion, I hate bronze dragons with a burning passion. According to people like mr rhexx, they are extremely self righteous and dont understand moral grey areas. A poor man will try to sneak food for himself and his family but all the bronze dragon will see is a thief who broke the law and will enact punishment.
The more noble and trustworthy of metallic dragons could also serve as long-term guardians and trustees of other people’s funds. For example, in my world of Firma, after the prophet Imredim won a great war against a neighboring empire, he ordered a university built and handed the spoils of battle over to a mated pair of silver dragons as an endowment to keep the university running in perpetuity. The dragons invest the horde in camel caravans and merchant shipping, much as you described, so it generates enough wealth to pay the professors and maintain the lecture halls and library without diminishing the hoard. Imredim ordered that students who passed the entrance exam should not have to pay any tuition. In the centuries since Imredim died, the dragons have held to the letter of this decree, but they started allowing students who failed the exam to study too, if they paid a “contribution” to the hoard first. Now many students accuse the dragons of raising the exam standards too high so as to get more students to fail the exams and get more contributions.
The dragon at SOME poing learns how to shapeshift?
This is why i play Pathfinder. Literally, every dragon in 1E had a small list of age categories and the powers they got at it.
This is a great video. I have a setting I've been developing that is described as "Mad Max, but ruled by dragons" so this will be quite usefull.
14:30 thats a historical misconception, medieval times debt was linked to the family, since countries didnt actually exist as we see today, as a colective of people that organize and structure comunity, countries were a colective of families that created comunities, meaning that the families would pay the deeds instead of the farmers and etc, wich actually makes sense, it is but in the modern era that debt started to be atributed to countries and most important winners, for example when france aquired alsace from the war with germans they actually paid the alsace debt, while the prussians didnt do the same while acquiring new lands by that decade, same for example for WW 1 were the loser was meant to pay the debt of the winner we saw how that wasnt feasible since a country cant and most importantly WONT pay its debts when the populace is unhappy, so for a dragon to make interest a most reasonable take would be to lend money to family heads wich would make its lease really rare and kind of a favor in the human eyes. it could be possible for the dragon to FORCE the country to pay but it wouldnt be efficient since it could force a post WW1 scenario where the country fails to get back togheter and actually starts to opose the dragon, wich is a financial and reputation failure in the long run, so succesful dragons would not do that.
In most fantasy dragons are considered intelligent. Very intelligent.
Which means they are intelligent enough to know that causing attention will only attract adventurers to want to slay it.
Dragons are also typically very rich. How do they get there? Do they rob people of gold?
Combining that would mean a dragon should know of their power and just deal with the nearby village. Not going there to steal cows for a snack, but buy them. And the village gives cows in return for protection. And since the dragon is seen as a protector, no call goes to to "save us from the dragon".
Sure, any dragon of respectable size could just force the villagers to give up the cows, but why alienate your neighbors if you can be profitable together.
In fact, the village with a nearby dragon should be safe from bandits and orc warbands.
The villagers give food and the promise not to call for knights to slay the dragon, and the dragon protects the village from dangers. Sounds like a pretty good deal.
You never escape the IRS. Especially when the IRS is a dragon
I'm a super talkative dude so might just roll copper dragonborn so I can play on my obnoxiousness xP
Metallic dragons have "more chances to die" than chromatic dragons but metallic dragons can call in non-draconic allies better than chromatic dragons
I feel like you have the food situation backwards. Gold Dragons are the one who eat a hard to replace resources, and are a literal drain on wealth, which will consume far more money than the cost of other dragons buying enough livestock.
I wonder why humans exist at all in this world? What's their competitive advantage?