Recoil of Glock vs Staccato
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
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Ben's videos inspired me to stop competing with expensive guns and go back to a Glock. Can't complain!
Staccato bros on life support
Naw
They’re manufacturing the noose as we speak.
Not at all, whatsoever 😂
Toaster pistol vs. Masterpiece 🤣
How so? Ben has proven that not only are they extremely reliable, but they allow him to be even more aggressive on the gun.
I don't have an expensive 2011, I have one of the recent Prodigy examples, and honestly...there's a reason why 2011's are so prevalent in the shooting space right now.
I've shot the expensive 2011's too by the way. They earned their reputation...if you can afford one, I don't begrudge anyone from getting one. Luckily Tisas makes a really nice budget option.
Physics remains undefeated
Nyet, glonk is fine
"Glonk" is fine if you're an experienced shooter and the worst ergonomics in the industry actually work for you.
"Worst ergonomics in the industry"
Found another boomer who doesn't know what hes talking about. @daveandrews5998
dave andrews- so it points a little high. The controls are still very usable.
Just because it ain't pretty enough for you doesn't mean it has bad ergonomics.
Don't be so dramatic. lol
@@daveandrews5998 The Glock grip angle actually promotes a good support hand wrist position/lock/cant. And it's not the only pistol with that sports such a grip angle, there's others out there too. Like the Steyr and the Laugo Alien. But the BEST thing about the Glock, is that you wont find a lighter pistol. It makes it great for carrying all day whether for CC or Duty, and what I find to be the BEST thing about it, you can detail strip it, not field strip, but DETAIL strip it, and completely clean every nook and cranny in a few minutes. Such a simple design.
@@UrbanDefenseSystems If you or anyone else likes the grip angle, great. For many people it is horrible and only promotes a lousy purchase on the pistol and cuts and scrapes on both hands. To each his own...and for me and many others, Glock is an outdated, horrible design that only became popular because Gaston sold them to the police for $300 a pop.
That trigger control! 💵
So what I'm seeing here is: don't bother with a more expensive gun, just suck less?
Good advice for life in general brochacho.
Always has been
Totally unrelated!! Just picked up your Dryfire reloaded book and targets from your Cedar Park location. Literally 11/2 minutes from my house. Now I understand the giant unicorn on the building! Hahah!
Anyone else here looking at Ben’s grip? 👀
Always🎉🎉🎉
At the end of the day, I imagine what bro chooses to shoot in competitions is probably gonna be the best.
Although the open division space guns are always a treat to see
Gun recoil is a complicated system specifically for the semi-auto pistols. The measurements of recoil are momentum and impulse. They measure 2 different units, but the number values are exactly the same. With revolver, you don't have to worry too much about the difference between them but with semi auto you do because of the recoil spring. And the impulse is what determines the felt recoil. (The revolvers impulse is mostly determined by the barrel length)
Now remember I am assuming the ideal condition in which the bullets weight and speed and caliber are exactly the same. And the weights of the guns are exactly the same. Also the weight and the length of slide are exactly the same. And recoil spring weights are exactly the same.
Now that the premise is all set, the scientific breakdown of recoil system will be explained in the reply section.
I should also point out that only thing that can change actual recoil momentum is the bullet weight and speed. The felt recoil is mostly influenced by impulse which is change of momentum with time. Don't get confused because even though impulse determines felt recoil, they are not the same things.
Now that being said:
1) If there are 2 exactly same pistols except each have different rake (grip) angle then the one with stiffer angle like Glock will have less muzzle rise even though recoil momentum and impulse are exactly the same for each gun. This is due to the resultant vector. (Stiffer angle makes the fulcrum of wrist closer to the recoil vector axis thus making the moment shorter. Also stiffer angle locks the wrist more)
2) If 2 pistols are exactly same except one is a striker fired and the other one is a hammer fired, then the hammer fired pistol will always have less felt recoil because of a part of recoil kinetic energy is transformed into hammer springs potential energy.
I should also point out that even in this case the numerical values of recoil momentum and impulse are exactly the same for the 2 pistols. It is true that the impulse is the one that determines the felt recoil of semi-auto pistols more than the momentum, the numerical values of the units will not change even when you feel different recoil and muzzle rise. As I mentioned before the only thing can change the numerical value of the recoil systems is the ammo.
The momentum is mass multiply by the speed. And the impulse is the change of momentum with time, or how long the force acts upon the system ( force multiply by the time). And 1 unit of momentum is same as 1 unit of impulse.
I forgot to mention about the recoil kinetic energy. And it is a big factor for the felt recoil.
For example in a simpler recoil system like a revolver, heavier one will have less felt recoil because the heavier revolver will have smaller recoil energy even though lighter and heavier revolvers will have same momentums and impulses. In other words gun and the bullet will always have exactly same momentum and impulse but the bullet will always have much greater kinetic energy than recoiling gun.
And finally, most shooters don't realize that bore axis hight doesn't influence muzzle rise as much they think in the semi-auto pistols. Yes, with a revolver the bore axis is same as the recoil vector axis. However with semi-auto the main recoil vector axis is not the bore axis. The recoil vector axis of semi-auto is where the recoil spring is located. Think about it!
So, the designers of the Hudson 9 and the Chekoslovakian Bruno? (The one that looks like CZ in steroid) got it right.
Good lard man
Much like Shakira’s hips, that bore axis don’t lie.
Love her hips
Me too buddy. Me too.
Damn do I wish my hands looked like that under recoil.
What do they look like?
Practice more
@@HWG-wm8ld They're not rock steady! haha The only things moving are his trigger finger and the gun, that's exceptional control.
Just normal to me
Pictures don't lie until they lie..... I frame grabbed each pistol at max muzzle rise and then drew a line along the slide versus level for each. The angle is somewhat less with the XC. Also there is more upward movement of the whole pistol with the Glock. Both these effects can change time getting back on target.
It would be nice to have a background with lines to be able to tell exactly how much they flip. But to me it seems the G34 has only a little more flip than the XC, and the P definitely flips a little more than the G34. All very smooth shooting guns though and it kinda seems like splitting hairs at this point.
Mr science is back.
A lot more money 💰 for a little less recoil. It’s like, do you want to drive a Honda Accord or a Ferrari. I run a G17 with 507 Comp & Streamlight Trl1 at Idpa. It shoots way softer with the light & I carried one as a cop for a long time. Good & fairly cheap setup.
They all work. My GX470 rides nicer than my 4Runner. Not selling either.
Great video! The Glock and P are pretty similar, but the comp makes a good difference. My polymer Rival has more muzzle rise than my G17, but I still shoot the Rival better overall in USPSA. But not by much.
Any idea why your Rival feels that way?
@@user-qt9cg9pz2gwell it’s a PDP clone, and the PDP is extremely snappy for a full-sized 9mm. In part because it has a high bore axis.
Level of effort? Do you feel like you are working harder with any if these? Also, have you tried a radian ramjet or shadow systems P compensated glock clone? Curious to know if grip angle height over bore and comp is the trifecta or if the 2011 will win on eliminating excessive trigger input
This is a Rorschach test of recoil
And how much more does the stac weigh?
Why are you coming off the trigger so far on the Stac P? Is it because you don't know the trigger as well? I noticed I do the same thing when trying out guns I'm unfamiliar with. I do a much more pronounced “slap.” Unintentionally, I should add.
About the same except the price.
Visually is close, what’s different is the staccato or any aluminum or steel frame pistol absorbs the smack.
Not if you actually know what you are looking at. The comped gun has significantly less muzzle flip compared to the other two. It’s the difference between the sights never leaving the target or having to wait for it to settle back on the target.
@@kevinallies1014 I know all that but like I said it's not much difference between the two ,to buy a 4000$ pistol to a 500$ pistol .
@@kevinallies1014 The irony lol. If you know what you're looking at, then you know it doesn't really matter if the dot flies out the window, what matters is that your grip is constant so the dot returns to center. Also of course the comped gun has significantly less recoil, it's comped. You can also comp a Glock.
Does it feel different? Staccato looks way more smooth. Which might make it appear to have less recoil.
Biggest thing you get from the staccato is the trigger…. Outside of that the gun needs to be cleaned more than the Glock. The gun is negligible in terms of performance
It is a compensated gun bro. If you knew what you were looking at you can see that it has SIGNIFICANTLY less muzzle flip which is the difference between your sights never leaving the target or having to wait for them to settle back on the target.
@@kevinallies1014 I’m referring to the P in my comment. I have an xc and I’ve had compensated Glocks before. My comment on maintenance and the trigger still applies. Go shoot some competitions and you’ll find that the gun is not a huge factor. Yes the xc has less muzzle flip and it’s softer but I could likely run drills similarly to the xcs time with a P or uncomped striker fire gun
@@kevinallies1014 You keep repeating the same thing to everyone and you're flat out wrong. A pistol cycles WAY faster than a person can pull the trigger. It doesn't matter if the dot goes vertically all the way up to the moon, by the time it comes back to center it would have been done in such a fraction of a second that to the human eye/brain it would have been nearly imperceptible compared to a dot that doesn't move as much. Even if you had .10 splits you'd STILL be unable to keep up with the cycling of a slide. The dot on a Glock returns faster than any human in the world would be able to keep up with. This even includes Jerry Miculek.
Your ignorance is quite entertaining. So confident but so wrong at the same time. 😂
@@jagpilotohio lol how? I’ve had an xc since late last year and put 5k rds through it. You can get away with predictable shooting more at distance but I’d argue if you had a Glock that was comped you could do the same. Comped guns are easier to shoot, but a non comped gun can perform similarly albeit a fraction slower maybe. That being said I’m waiting for the new C from staccato. I like both guns but I’d be confident with either.
I've run hk vp9l..with 150 grain way less muzzle flip than either
Not a Glock hater, but the ergonomics are not for me. The grip angle causes my trigger finger to point down and gets pinched between the tip of the trigger and the trigger guard. Heard that from others also. I compete in practical shooting with a P, but enjoy longer range target practice sometimes and it's nice to have a good trigger.
It has been called the fastest shooting gun by many. ;)
I suspect that comparing 2 pistols that have long slides that the difference between a comp and one without will be negligible. Perhaps the recoil impulse will feel different. If we learned anything from watching this channel, muzzle rise is not a factor on how well or fast you can run your pistol. The key is if the sights (red dot) return back to normal where you can activate trigger again. That is where training trumps equipment !
They all look comparable
I doubt they feel comparable though
It’s almost like it you shoot enough, you can manage recoil well with any gun that’s designed by a reputable company….90% of 2011 sales are bc ppl think they can buy a fast track ticket to shooting well and disregard putting the time in.
@@Puddin127Not the PDP. That thing kicks like a mule. Otherwise I agree full sized guns can be controlled similarly when designed well or tuned.
I thought they looked comparable at first too. After watching a few times I could see that although muzzle rise looks the same, his arms are being pushed rearward shooting the 34.
It's Ben's grip- there are ways to tell what someone is doing wrong by looking at how the gun behaves in recoil. There really isn't anything to point out, he is a world champion so it's not unexpected.
Take an average shooter and you will see more of a difference between the Glock and 2011.
Didn't you change the springs out?
On the xc, recoil spring.
So is the recoil control 4000$ better here? Or am I missing something? I always thought recoil controls comes from a better more expensive gun and not skill
The comments are hilarious. You can tell the difference between “gun owners” and shooters. Gun owners can’t see any difference in those three clips. Shooters see a significant difference.
I carry a Glock. Therefore, I compete with a Glock in gun games Reps > Gun
Lol at the comments of yhe salty Stacatto bros who saw the title and and were expecting something so different . I get it. Ben is a pro and it is worth the money
You use lol, same as an 8th grade female.
Most of us use Staccato for work and something else for carry. Not a cop.
Not a Stacotto bro, don’t own one and probably never will, but if you can’t see the difference between that gun and the other two then you are blind. The muzzle flip is significantly less in the Stacatto. It is the difference between the sights never leaving the target and waiting for them to settle back on the target. Remember he is an elite shooter so he doesn’t have a screwed up grip so that visual difference is HUGE.
He actually changed the spring out in the Staccato XC so the tuning is not the same as you get it.
@@HWG-wm8lddo you mind if I ask what you CCW?
Funny, I look at my videos and there doesn't seem to be as much muzzle rise. Yet you shoot faster with tighter groups. Makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong, and you are doing right.
Someone had a great video on this I think it may have been Milspec Mojo maybe? They were basically talking about how people hyper fixate on controlling muzzle rise/flip which is important, but returning to target is far more important. In the video you could see shooters with more muzzle rise shooting tighter groups faster.
@@user-te3qq1rb7u Thank you. I follow Mojo.
When I go to the range, I shoot doubles until the wheels fall off. I've gone from a .35 to about .25. Any faster and the group just opens up. Ben makes it look so easy. Judging from his groups, you would think the muzzle didn't move. I was surprised by the video. I'm glad he posted it.
Ben has stated multiple times that he is specifically against actively combating muzzle rise. He believes in a firm but relaxed grip that leads to a repeatable recoil pattern that can be returned to the same aiming point quickly.
He has quite a few vids on this specific topic
Mojo is a complete dork cop.
Mojo said he rarely dry fire which tells everything.
He train his mechanic by doing 1 shot draw and 1R1
Nothing against glock but this guy has a $600+ dot on his Glock and a $250 dot on his $3000 gun
Got my Instagram deleted for commenting on this 😂 wasn’t even that bad of a comment.
But, how was the felt recoil?
What are you, a therapist?
@@heymotivator2231Yes, hence the question 😂
@@bram461 but how did it make you feeeeeel
@@heymotivator2231 I’d have to start caring to have feelings.
@@bram461 sigma
All this shows is that in the hands of a literal professional the guns don't matter much. I never shot a staccato but Glocks are too slippery and recoil way more than the only 2011 I shot (infinity)
You got it except for being slippery. You could gorilla glue a Glock to your skin, if you don’t apply the pressure, stippling doesn’t matter. Stippling “feels” good, does nothing for performance.
@@HWG-wm8ld I don't have the slipperiness problem with the PDP though.
I don’t have it with any gun.
P needs a heavier recoil spring
Nah it looks perfect. No dip at all.
@@colin8601 look how violent it is going back, needs to slow down, plus a heavy spring will reduce the frame getting beat on by the slide
It’s fine erkle
@@HWG-wm8ld erkle?
What it looks like is one thing, but what it feesl like is what I'm more interested in.
Hahahaha Glock gets you 97.8%
Not sure what I'm seeing but gonna say that this shows the Stacato is the premier tactical gun for true tacbros. It's all they need to get their 12 second El Pres down to 11.
Roland special beats the XC for 1/4 the price.
Where are you finding Roland specials for $1100?
@@PhillipDRobinson build it yourself, can be done easily for $1100-$1200.
A Ransom rest with a force sensor should be used to test recoil. Facts not feel.
Is that sensor similar to what you use to test midi-chlorians?
Ben, you should port a 34 and then compare hahah I bet it will be better than the XC given it’s already nearly identical to me at least
With a good grip you can control any recoil. But there’s no doubt Staccato shoots softer almost any other production gun.
Don’t know about any, I’d say any steel gun over plastic.
You're letting your finger come too far off the trigger, sonny! Just ride it out to the reset and *bang* !!!
Glocks suck bro. Just give it up 😂
S.U.C.K. : Accurate, Reliable, Durable… okay bro
@@goobasippay938 Toaster pistol.
He uses emojis and writes bro, dudes a douche
Glock somehow adds more recoil, than any other gun. I hate them... Horrible
@DaveandDebe They come with a free tub of butt butter for some reason too. LOL.
The staccato is way flatter……😂😂😂(gaaaaaaay)
what video were you watching? i cant stand shooting glocks, but the comped stacatto and the glock were pretty darned close. the P not in the same race.
Think it’s sarcasm.
Bruh, I could buy six G45’s for the price of one Staccato XC. No 🧢
@leftyo9589 No they are not close. It is the difference between the dot leaving the A zone and not leaving the A zone at 15 yards. Your comment just goes to show that you don’t shoot at distances where things actually matter. A dog can hit the A zone at 5 yards.
Well, that was a clear thing. Staccato wins