Looked like Saurabh on one side and Sunil and Outlook editor on one side. But he handled pressure with amazing cool. Several time Saurabh has tried to explain the moat of certain Indian businesses like AP and Pidilite in very simple language.
What Sunil is saying has been tried by 90% of investors and 89% of them failed and what Sourabh says,only 10% has tried and almost all 10% made money.What Sunil says needs expertise like him ,but what Sourabh says ,all small investors can make money more than FDs but with safety.
Can see the trend these days...each n every pandits trying to derail Saurabh philosophy. But its the Saurabh consistency & clarity of thought that separates him from the boys. Anyways, great listening both of them. Thanks Outlook business. Happy Investing !!!
Leave these junk fund managers man. Just see how frustrated Sunil is when he raises the point on ETF. ETFs are slowly killing these outdated find managers who fooled retail investors for decades. Kind of clear, where the frustration comes from.
There are plethora of facts and analysis where Saurabh could be wrong. But the way he handled the taunts and on top of that tried to put his perspective was commendable.
Many fund managers are attempting to prove that Sourabh's investing philosophy is wrong & not sustainable. .I could sense envy.... proves he is doing it right...Sourabh & Team are doing great job by simplifying the process/thesis/reasoning and also naming companies on Public platforms. Many retail investor's have benefited from his wisdom. Its also a effective marketing strategy.. innovative... People at the top in any field always hate democratization..
@@shivammittal191 Most fund managers come on CNBC for advertisement and when their strategy stops working or underperforms, they disappear. Watching CNBC and know how fund managers use it for many years. Only time will tell whether SM is another bull market product or survives the test of time and markets.
@@anonymousanonymous6424 well unless until you are not living under caves then you must have known about the recent stock market crash. And i highly suggest you to see the performance or come back of these strong franchises as compared to other then you'll know the difference.
It takes extreme courage and conviction to share all your stocks publicly especially when you are a big fund manager like Saurabh as people will be waiting for your stocks to underperform and through stones at you. All others never share their stocks for the fear of criticism when they underperform but they will be ready to criticize others..hypocrites
Funny thing is I have find many people who are jealous of Marcellus's AUM. When you know what stocks the other person is holding, it becomes easy to target him.
If sharing strategy and IP will steal Saurabh’s work, then there will be 100s of Saurabh in the market. Sunil is unable to see and bickering. For his age, he should have done lot better
Absolutely... It takes extreme courage and conviction to share all your stocks publicly especially when you are a big fund manager like Saurabh as people will be waiting for your stocks to underperform and through stones at you. All others never share their stocks for the fear of criticism when they underperform but they will be ready to criticize others..hypocrites
Bro Sunil have grown his portfolio 667% His great picks are Jindal hisar,mastek(100 rs bought),Jindal hisar,sarda energy ,route mobile ,Hil …. I invested in both portfolio…but Marcellus gives me 80% return after hun 2020…..but Abbakus gives me 667% return And under Sunil tenture reliance mf grown 100X times
No fund manager has told to buy steel in futures rather than steel stocks in upcycle. The only person who told this simplified way was saurabh. Whatever the people who are jealous of his rise say - I shall always be indebted to saurabh for making me think rationally.
I agree to everything you said about Saurabh. As for some being jealous, I suppose it's the difference of opinion. It was a healthy debate and It's nice to hear someone playing the Devil's advocate .
Many ppl are jealous of Saurabh's AUM growth over the last 2 yrs!! Clearly visible in this discussion!! And also check the venomous tweets from ppl like Shankar Sharma and safir!!
Saurabh was absolutely brilliant.....by praising SS he actually made an ass of him. Sunil proved himself to be an egoistic and insecure person. Mahalaxmi did a great job.
Saurabh's investment philosophy shows in his writings. His books are simple to understand and display his depth of research. This discussion was just a glimpse into the minds of the people running Marcellus. Their clarity of thought is unbelievable.
@@samratghosh54 maine donò portfolio me same allocation diya tha ek daam exact copy…. Marcellus fund ka return below Sensex return hai Aur Abbakus fund 6 multiple kr diya paisa ko sirf 3 saal…..
Saurabh’s philosophy, knowledge and analysis can beat anyone and same happened this time too. He is teaching all of us how to earn money in stock market by investing in high quality company and not by betting on low quality and PE stocks. Thanks Saurabh sir !!!!!
When Saurabh speaks everyone understands because he brings examples to strengthen his views and which eventually help common investors to study these companies before investing and mostly whatever he has suggested so far 90% of them did phenomenal return.The latest was Fine organics🙏
My only point is why can't any PMS Managers can describe their investing process as clearly and as simply as Marcellus does. They make investing complex. While its very easy to get 15-20 % CAGR from only investing in champion franchise.
Watching after 6 months and realized how sunil was absolutely correct on valuations perspective. You should not give any PE to good management company irrespective of how its growing its free cash flow. If you invest Asian paints and pidillite at this level, they might give you normal nifty returns for next many years. I would suggest to pick Saurabh's midcap and smallcap stocks rather.
Bro Sunil gives 667% return but saurabh below Sensex return 😅😅😅…. i don’t know why new generation are so much fond of this manager who doesn’t even follow Benjamin graham strategy
From regular profit perspective, Saurab's technique works well, but for a portfolio which wants to take every possible opportunity of mis pricing in the market, Sunil's examples holds good. There are investors who target only 1 specific sector. There are more sophisticated machines like quants run by data scientists and behavioral scientists, which make average 50% growth every year. The fact is there are numerous ways to make and lose capital in the market. It is for us to decide.🙏
Saurabh mukherjee,Sir You are absolute genius on earth.No one can compete with you.People just dont know the kind of indepth knowledge you possess and have useless debates.Its my advice to you if u got to read my msg..Either stop having debates with people or plz find someone on earth who can have the competence to sit infront of you.
Mahalaxmi you are just fantastic. U asked excellent questions & made superb counter arguments. one of the best interviews in last 5 years. Thanks a lot.
As much as I respect both of them , Sunil is no match for logic, clarity and vision ( which are displayed by Saurabh). Sunil seems more of the setting sun - knowing the time has come to hand over the baton to others , reluctantly so !
Handing down the bation by an old Patriarch of even a small family held business is tougher than lifting the Load of Atlas. And you expect the old guns to do it with dignity. A fool's paradise.
Around 56.40 Fund Manager Sunil is saying he doesn't read book and write either, so question is if he doesn't read book why many books are behind him? As a only show wall? Sourabh Mukherjea is highly intelligent in a simple manner...
I was waiting for the point Saurabh used to tell when tax waiver was announced...how these companies like asian paints would get that additional cash for reinvesting which would turn into a snowballing effect propelling more and more growth. Would have been a befitting reply. Somehow got missed.
Veteran fund managers are not able to digest Saurabh's success...At the end of the day investor should get the returns and Saurabh is producing the same..PE is important but when when you have niche product...Monopoly market then the valuation of the company will always be high...High PE with High growth is anytime better than low PE with low growth...Rest they all are genius and we retails will always get trapped🙏🙏
low pe may give more returns or some times may died also.. Example adag group stocks, dhfl, yesbank, PSU banks, but saurabh stocks never die that is first priority
@@winnersportfolio7994 The reason why Saurabh s portfolio is giving return as he focuses more on growth.. forensic accounting . quality management etc. He is not shy away from buying the company @higher valuations if the company full his parameters
saurabh has way better research on industry and full of conviction show in his success but sunil are like basic of building block without that every investor is fail. thanks you to outlook business for such good debate.
Wow that Sunil guy doesn't know shit. I went to the NSE website and checked pidilite, reliance industries and Asian paints (the market leaders then) stock prices over 20 years. Each one of them from 2000 to 2020 has given around 24%-27% avg return. They are still market leaders and I believe they still will be in the upcoming years. My money is on them!
Don't know who said pidilite gave zero percent returns after that income tax waiver date. It was trading close to 1500 at the end of that day. Now it is trading close to 2000. More than thirty percent returns :-D
This started so well with the challenges of comparison of PE between two companies in similar peer group: Quality of Earnings, Corporate Governance and Capital Requirement. But Saurabh is skewing away again and again from the point that the PE is obviously justifiable if their is growth backing it up. Super interesting points by Saurabh no doubt, it's just that a lack of structuring the argument is felt across the debate.
While not completely agreed on SM's investment style, I find it completely ridiculous the kind of hated( envy, jeolous ?) towards him from most of other fund managers and it seems they ganged up to continuously attack him, mock him. Well may be because this is a guy who came to India not many years ago, wrote successful books, manages one of the biggest PMS fund, has a cult following and all these with a simple strategy that is easy to understand. And most of others have been really involved for 20-30 years, twits hundreds times a day and lags far behind. You may not make multibagger returns in a short time but with his style definitely make more than good returns over longer horizon aith piece of mind.
Yes that's the point as Warren says no one wants to get rich slowly that makes saurabh different as he takes a long term view his returns in short term are in line with Nifty but long term returns are really good i just hate that street starts to judge managers with only few years
After reading comments, one ll realise that saurabh investment process is easily understood by many and praised by many but harsh reality is that investing is not easy and cant be explained it easily. No doubt sourabh is the story teller and writer while Sunil is one of the best fund manager. Debate - Story teller vs Fund manager.
Mr Saurabh . At 40.00 you hit the nail on head when you tried to explain on the “exceptional franchises “ .Hope the viewers will get the importance of this.
Now a days Fund managers are so much jealous of Saurabh Mukherjea. Saurabh Mukherjea always advocate for good and trustworthy management and he invested in that companies. But Sunil never disclose any company and most of them with shitty and Doubtful management.
Thank you, Maha Lakshmi, for bringing in such a good debate and moderating so well. You are equally knowledgeable as the panel. It is a great learning video on different styles of investment and what to watch out for. In the end, investment goals, risk appetite, and time horizon drive the approach.
Excellent debate! Worth the time, both the panelists have strong views on their investing styles! Only time till tell who will be the eventual winner!! Thanks Outlook for organizing this.
@@fordhamrusselchristiania6482That's why you need the help of a professional who trade and understand the market more to earn good income. These professionals understand the market like it's there own farm and makes maximum profits for investors.
It's surprising that people are so scared and discouraged by sudden drop in value, most crypto traders and investors are less knowledgeable about the dynamic of cryptocurrency. It's a time to buy the dip and connect with good traders that knows the Ins and outs of Wall Street wizardry. I'm covered and secured about the market thanks to TRADE EXPERT Mrs Kathy Lien .✅
I have seen this happen before. When markets are at peaks, debates rage on relevance of P/E. When markets decline to nadir, nobody does a debate on irrelevance of P/E.
Looking at Ttm p/e when more than 50% of the market has earnings degrowth vs FY19 is optically flawed..if u exclude the June qtr the PE may actually be 15-25% lower than what is being reported
most of the comments are in favor of Saurabh, but what sunil mentioned is correct and these high PE stocks will most likely disappoint in coming decade.
Lol i won't say high P/E are always bad in india it's really difficult to find good companies with low P/E unless there is a pessimism or bear market quality companies deserve that and in growing economy like india high P/E are prevalent i am a value investor i would say Quality is paramount if you for valuation only you will end up being trapped in a value trap don't confuse good businesses with bull market bull market conceals everything company you may think is a quality company may have issues so if you want to survive buy a good quality companies at a reasonable valuation as warren said it's better to buy a wonderful at a fair price rather than fair business at a wonderful price
I really admire saurabh for his incredible knowledge in stock markets and he was so clear in his philosaphy. He honestly shares what he buys and the conviction. One such example before my eyes is Alkyle amines ans what a stock and what an analysis from you
Great conversation. So much to learn. My admiration for Saurabh has increased post this video. The clarity in sharing the concept in a structured manner is so admiring.
In my opinion Saurabh's investing style should ideally lead to low volatility moderate 12-15% returns over long term, it is meant for people who want to protect their capital from drawdowns. He is benefitting from short term outperformance.
Mutual fund managers are really getting scared considering amount of wisdom shared by saurabh free of cost which is helping retail investors to do self investing and make better returns
Singhania saab ka abakkus ka pms mostly investing in doubtful companies n lalaji mgmt...thts y i cud see him defending things like company mgmt n all of small n midcaps is not bad n gettin frustrated many times...all abbakus pms companies r visible online on trendlyne easily n u people can easily see wat type of companies he investing in..most r very high risk high return.... Saurabh sir u keep doin ur good work n educatin people...u rock!
We cant see Marcellus PMS data on trendlyne as none of their investments are beyond 1%. All holdings are published only if it exceeds 1 %. Hence, most big investors prefer to own below 1% of the company to be under the radar.
@@ssaurabh2.0 - You can see every holding of Marcellus in their Webinars on RUclips. He openly publishes them and discusses each stock at length. If you want I can share the holdings with you
This was one and only session where Mr.Saurabh was questioned or disagreed to such a level . Treat to watch both greatest fund manager at a same platform.
This was a good discussion ...agree or disagree . People keep learning about investing and no one is a master . Until you are a thug life Rakesh Junjunwala.
Its really great to hear both.Lot of learnings.... specially regarding high pe companies...Basically the earnings growth is the main point to remember but at right valuations.
Nice debate. 2 different strategies, time will tell which one proves to be correct. But india definitely has a shortage of good quality companies and hence too much money tries to chase too few stocks bidding up their multiples.
I'll just say one thing Saurabh wasn't able to explain it properly, he was intimidated by Sunil by the respect he has for him. But no shit, there were a lot of jabs thrown at him which he wasn't able to ans to the best of his abilities. CCP is a style of investing for 10 years. In which you are keeping in mind that 2-3 firms might tank but the exponential returns of the few shall more than compensate. Only point, I have in mind is data validity by saurabh. Cause such a big deviation in sunil and his data doesn't make sense.
OK. I am going to exit nestle, hdfc bank, Asian paints , pidilite , titan etc., today itself and invest in all psu stocks as they only have very low pe. Thank God I am saved
The fact that most of the retail investors love Saurabh Mukherjee's habit of sharing his ideas and explaining the reason for buying those. Is pertinent enough to conclude that there is alot of sheep walk happening cz all the retail investors want is to get free idea's without doing any hard work of their own. BEST STRATEGY FOR FAILURE !!
I can sense wisdom in Saurabh Mukherjea's way of explaining things...I have great regard for him... everytime I tend to be doubtful on my portfolio, tend to lose some conviction at times start doubting him, he comes up with even more wisdom to prove me wrong.
Thoughtful. Its a high standard debate and discussion. Both of them have put their best. I feel both are right with the examples they have put. As a audience they shouldn't be compared against each other saying who won at the end but should be proud that we are able to hear their knowledge and experience in just less than hour.
I have a great admiration for Saurabh. However, as a smart investor we need to take Sunil's viewpoint into consideration as well. As much as I love to invest in great franchisees but I also consider at what valuation I am buying any stocks. Yes, this is true that in India you can't find great companies which is moderately priced but that doesn't mean I should go to an extent of buying a great company with a PE larger than 100. Otherwise we risk margin of safety.
A session on number crunching is much needed.. I love Saurabh's view and the companies that he comes up with but Mr. Singhania is a veteran who is a bcom graduate, a CA and a CFA and I don't think Saurabh can beat him at number crunching.. infact the moderator is challenging that the only company that grew by 20% XIRR is HDFC bank.
Beautiful insights..My portfolio is full of these champion franchises Saurabh discussed in this video and I fully agree with his viewpoint that till the underlying business of these great companies is firing all cylinders, then their PE values have no meaning.
This is the beauty of market😊😊. Different person have different opinions. But always remember Markets are always right whereas opinions are often not😉😉.
Both have different strategies of investing. Sunil's strategy is hard to implement. On the other hand Saurabh's approach is simple. Warren Buffett says a great business is like a castle and the CEO is like the king and people will try to take you down but the longevity helps you get rich.
@@prashanthjana5895 - Especially in an inflationary scenario these companies would do better as the competition would get absolutely destroyed by the inflation and these companies would stand to gain. Just watch Terry Smith of Fundsmith and you'll know why Saurabh will win this battle hands down in the long run
@@KC-ge2ui There is one difference between both. Terry gives quite a bit of importance to entry multiples. In an inflationary environment, I agree that smaller players will be affected more. But profit pool of the industry itself will be compressed and hence everyone's margins go down in favour of RM suppliers like oil and chemical companies + some benefit to consumers as the impact of volume loss will be huge if the increase in RM costs are completely passed on to consumers
PIDILITE Stock At Record High, Crosses 2000/Sh Milestone & Also Crosses 1 Lakh Crore Market Cap... "Fevicol Ka Moat Hai! Tootega Nahi" So Saurabh's Strategy of Investing in Monopolistic, Champion Franchises with Great Management (Very Few) looks better strategy for retail investors....
All other fund managers hate the site of Saurabh Mukherjea. Saurabh is clear and has logic of what he says. Sunil Singhania is not even 1/100th of Saurabh.
Why the hell did both, Sunil and the host kept harping on HUL and Colgate. Saurabh has never advocated them. In fact, there are multiple videos where Suarabh ridiculed HUL and explains how HUL is incomparable with Nestles or Marico.
Sunil represents old styled investing company and unable to see Saurabh’s point. Humbleness is key in every business. Stay hungry-stay foolish and one will win. If we were to succeed, intellectual leadership is all that we need which Saurabh represents
Atleast saurabh share his thoughts process and stock. Sunil is neither doing that and still finding fault in saurabh process
Still Sunil outperforms saurabh
Looked like Saurabh on one side and Sunil and Outlook editor on one side. But he handled pressure with amazing cool. Several time Saurabh has tried to explain the moat of certain Indian businesses like AP and Pidilite in very simple language.
Saurabh could have been a writer if he was not a fund manager. So his story telling ability is best in the market.
Writer hi hai, fund Mgr pretend karta hai to gather aum
What Sunil is saying has been tried by 90% of investors and 89% of them failed and what Sourabh says,only 10% has tried and almost all 10% made money.What Sunil says needs expertise like him ,but what Sourabh says ,all small investors can make money more than FDs but with safety.
Can't agree more..
U nailed it
Sunil sir is awesome investor he have more knowledge of investing in foreign equity too!
0p
Yes.. totally agre
Can see the trend these days...each n every pandits trying to derail Saurabh philosophy. But its the Saurabh consistency & clarity of thought that separates him from the boys. Anyways, great listening both of them. Thanks Outlook business. Happy Investing !!!
Saurabh mukherjea probably knows the numbers of pidilite and asian paints more than promoters themselves. Never question that.
Good One😂😂
😂
Haha.. Exactly !!
Leave these junk fund managers man. Just see how frustrated Sunil is when he raises the point on ETF. ETFs are slowly killing these outdated find managers who fooled retail investors for decades. Kind of clear, where the frustration comes from.
haha
There are plethora of facts and analysis where Saurabh could be wrong. But the way he handled the taunts and on top of that tried to put his perspective was commendable.
The best part of this discussion is the moderator is as good as the guests. It made the discussion to navigate in an interesting way. kudos..!!
True
Many fund managers are attempting to prove that Sourabh's investing philosophy is wrong & not sustainable. .I could sense envy.... proves he is doing it right...Sourabh & Team are doing great job by simplifying the process/thesis/reasoning and also naming companies on Public platforms. Many retail investor's have benefited from his wisdom.
Its also a effective marketing strategy.. innovative...
People at the top in any field always hate democratization..
PMS with most marketing gimmicks and advertisement grow fastest in a bull market. Wait for bears in next few years and see where SM stands.
@@anonymousanonymous6424 can you somewhat brief about yourself like who you are, are you an research analyst or anything else?
@@shivammittal191 Most fund managers come on CNBC for advertisement and when their strategy stops working or underperforms, they disappear. Watching CNBC and know how fund managers use it for many years. Only time will tell whether SM is another bull market product or survives the test of time and markets.
@@anonymousanonymous6424 well unless until you are not living under caves then you must have known about the recent stock market crash. And i highly suggest you to see the performance or come back of these strong franchises as compared to other then you'll know the difference.
@@anonymousanonymous6424 2018 to 2020 haven’t been great but still coffee Can companies overdelivered
This is no less than a Heavy Weight championship..we need more such debates..great stuff🔥
Thanks Outlook Business for organising such a wonderful debate.
Sunil is saying that ETF investing is dumb money, of course he will say that! He is a fund manager, his business model is under threat 😄
So true
Completely agree with u, just watch SS frustration 🤣
Yes then in view of sunil ray dalio is dumb
Sunil is a fund manager and Saurabh is what, an academic?? 😂
What are the returns of abakkus can anyone tell me
It takes extreme courage and conviction to share all your stocks publicly especially when you are a big fund manager like Saurabh as people will be waiting for your stocks to underperform and through stones at you. All others never share their stocks for the fear of criticism when they underperform but they will be ready to criticize others..hypocrites
You can see sunil's portfolio it's present in public just search on Google you will get and then calculate has he underperformed or not
Excellent !!! Great effort by Outlook Business. You should mention Sunil ji and Saurabh Mukherjea name in title
They now did!
Funny thing is I have find many people who are jealous of Marcellus's AUM.
When you know what stocks the other person is holding, it becomes easy to target him.
If sharing strategy and IP will steal Saurabh’s work, then there will be 100s of Saurabh in the market. Sunil is unable to see and bickering. For his age, he should have done lot better
Absolutely... It takes extreme courage and conviction to share all your stocks publicly especially when you are a big fund manager like Saurabh as people will be waiting for your stocks to underperform and through stones at you. All others never share their stocks for the fear of criticism when they underperform but they will be ready to criticize others..hypocrites
Bro Sunil have grown his portfolio 667%
His great picks are Jindal hisar,mastek(100 rs bought),Jindal hisar,sarda energy ,route mobile ,Hil ….
I invested in both portfolio…but Marcellus gives me 80% return after hun 2020…..but Abbakus gives me 667% return
And under Sunil tenture reliance mf grown 100X times
No fund manager has told to buy steel in futures rather than steel stocks in upcycle. The only person who told this simplified way was saurabh. Whatever the people who are jealous of his rise say - I shall always be indebted to saurabh for making me think rationally.
I agree to everything you said about Saurabh. As for some being jealous, I suppose it's the difference of opinion. It was a healthy debate and It's nice to hear someone playing the Devil's advocate .
Completely agree with u, also watching SS seems watching political debate between BJP and Congress.
Amazing way of handling pressure Saurabh by using intelligence and depth of knowledge...hats off to you
Many ppl are jealous of Saurabh's AUM growth over the last 2 yrs!! Clearly visible in this discussion!! And also check the venomous tweets from ppl like Shankar Sharma and safir!!
Yeah also add samir arora..he was making fun of Suurabh..
@@sanjaykale6235 can you share the link, I want to see it.
True 😂
Ahaters make him famous..they don't realise that people are not fools
Safir is a joker who is a cry baby with very large ego.. he can't even respond to people with opposing views decently.
Saurabh was absolutely brilliant.....by praising SS he actually made an ass of him. Sunil proved himself to be an egoistic and insecure person. Mahalaxmi did a great job.
Agree... Sunil shankar RJ r highly egoistic... Listening them doesn't help anyone...
Very well said Arnab....
@@umamgvg his immense knowledge comes from a lot of reading
@@pavansbv correct
Saurabh's investment philosophy shows in his writings. His books are simple to understand and display his depth of research. This discussion was just a glimpse into the minds of the people running Marcellus. Their clarity of thought is unbelievable.
Can you please tell his books name
@@arunsharma667 I would suggest, The Victory Project. It's helps with overall development rather than Investments. Google the rest.
@@arunsharma667 GURUS OF CHAOS, THE UNUSUAL BILLIONAIRES, COFFEE CAN INVESTING.
this debate made me build up 3x more faith and confidence on saurabh mukherjea's intellectual property. great conversation.
How's your portfolio doing now?
@@vaibhavjain-ht3zz down 7% but I m losing no sleep. Fundamentals are going to catch up eventually. Using the correction to average out.
@@samratghosh54 great! valuations will also catch up eventually 😉
@@samratghosh54 maine donò portfolio me same allocation diya tha ek daam exact copy….
Marcellus fund ka return below Sensex return hai
Aur Abbakus fund 6 multiple kr diya paisa ko sirf 3 saal…..
Wonder how someone watch youtube and build faith. He is biggest sales man
The fact is 80% of screen time was with Saurabh. Its highlight how much everyone likes to listen him. 🙏🙏
Sunil is a very intelligent investor and kinda guru for Sourabh. He is the man behind the reliance mutual fund success.
True
SM is humble n grateful. Other guy is arrogant. No insights , no examples.
Saurabh’s philosophy, knowledge and analysis can beat anyone and same happened this time too. He is teaching all of us how to earn money in stock market by investing in high quality company and not by betting on low quality and PE stocks.
Thanks Saurabh sir !!!!!
When Saurabh speaks everyone understands because he brings examples to strengthen his views and which eventually help common investors to study these companies before investing and mostly whatever he has suggested so far 90% of them did phenomenal return.The latest was Fine organics🙏
My only point is why can't any PMS Managers can describe their investing process as clearly and as simply as Marcellus does. They make investing complex. While its very easy to get 15-20 % CAGR from only investing in champion franchise.
My bought pidilte at 1600 last year.Chk todays market price.Saurabh sir is true genius
If you watch this debate today, Sunil's experience and subtle points makes sense
True. But both make money
Watching after 6 months and realized how sunil was absolutely correct on valuations perspective. You should not give any PE to good management company irrespective of how its growing its free cash flow. If you invest Asian paints and pidillite at this level, they might give you normal nifty returns for next many years. I would suggest to pick Saurabh's midcap and smallcap stocks rather.
Yeah mid cap has done quite well..
Bro Sunil gives 667% return but saurabh below Sensex return 😅😅😅…. i don’t know why new generation are so much fond of this manager who doesn’t even follow Benjamin graham strategy
Bro midcap smll cap down 20pct ..
From regular profit perspective, Saurab's technique works well, but for a portfolio which wants to take every possible opportunity of mis pricing in the market, Sunil's examples holds good. There are investors who target only 1 specific sector. There are more sophisticated machines like quants run by data scientists and behavioral scientists, which make average 50% growth every year. The fact is there are numerous ways to make and lose capital in the market. It is for us to decide.🙏
We want this type of discussions more...It was fantastic to watch both of them. Lot to learn 👍
Saurabh mukherjee,Sir You are absolute genius on earth.No one can compete with you.People just dont know the kind of indepth knowledge you possess and have useless debates.Its my advice to you if u got to read my msg..Either stop having debates with people or plz find someone on earth who can have the competence to sit infront of you.
Hats off Saurabh, keep rocking
Sunil ka kehna hai ki kaisi management achi hai ya nhi ye judge nhi kr sakte then warren stated that wrong that mgnt integrity is imp
Mahalaxmi you are just fantastic. U asked excellent questions & made superb counter arguments.
one of the best interviews in last 5 years. Thanks a lot.
As much as I respect both of them , Sunil is no match for logic, clarity and vision ( which are displayed by Saurabh). Sunil seems more of the setting sun - knowing the time has come to hand over the baton to others , reluctantly so !
Handing down the bation by an old Patriarch of even a small family held business is tougher than lifting the Load of Atlas. And you expect the old guns to do it with dignity. A fool's paradise.
Around 56.40 Fund Manager Sunil is saying he doesn't read book and write either, so question is if he doesn't read book why many books are behind him? As a only show wall? Sourabh Mukherjea is highly intelligent in a simple manner...
Good discussion. I would respect the great views of both. Sunil's experience and Saurabh's philosophy brings us to the reality of this game
Sunil should disclose stocks he is invested in and fundamental reasoning behind these stocks.
Nahi karega. There is no philosophy.
@@KC-ge2ui correct...the guy is too insecure and narcissistic
Bhai PSP project,Hg infra.......uske bd mastek,saregama,route mobile
Bht bht return Kamya isne
I think the moderator should have maintained a neutral stance. Two investors can have different styles of investing and both can be right!
I was waiting for the point Saurabh used to tell when tax waiver was announced...how these companies like asian paints would get that additional cash for reinvesting which would turn into a snowballing effect propelling more and more growth. Would have been a befitting reply. Somehow got missed.
Marketing karo toh Saurabh bhaiya jaisi
Veteran fund managers are not able to digest Saurabh's success...At the end of the day investor should get the returns and Saurabh is producing the same..PE is important but when when you have niche product...Monopoly market then the valuation of the company will always be high...High PE with High growth is anytime better than low PE with low growth...Rest they all are genius and we retails will always get trapped🙏🙏
low pe may give more returns or some times may died also.. Example adag group stocks, dhfl, yesbank, PSU banks, but saurabh stocks never die that is first priority
@@winnersportfolio7994 The reason why Saurabh s portfolio is giving return as he focuses more on growth.. forensic accounting . quality management etc. He is not shy away from buying the company @higher valuations if the company full his parameters
Where can I see Saurabh portfolio stocks
@@muvvalabhaskar3948 Hi U can go Marcellus website and go to the blog section there u can find the entire folio🙏🙏
Low pe with high growth is best combo just put that criteria in screener
Saurabh you are a champion. you are so modest, so calm even in pressure situation. Best of luck !
saurabh has way better research on industry and full of conviction show in his success but sunil are like basic of building block without that every investor is fail. thanks you to outlook business for such good debate.
Wow that Sunil guy doesn't know shit. I went to the NSE website and checked pidilite, reliance industries and Asian paints (the market leaders then) stock prices over 20 years. Each one of them from 2000 to 2020 has given around 24%-27% avg return. They are still market leaders and I believe they still will be in the upcoming years. My money is on them!
Have you switched years? 1998 to 2020? 1999 to 2020? 1996 to 2020 - can you try and tell me
Yes pidilite is any day buy kind of stock.. reliance is next future
SS is showing his ego.. SM is awesome.. SM advice is relevant for small investors.. SM openly discuss his stocks... Great boss
Don't know who said pidilite gave zero percent returns after that income tax waiver date. It was trading close to 1500 at the end of that day. Now it is trading close to 2000. More than thirty percent returns :-D
This started so well with the challenges of comparison of PE between two companies in similar peer group: Quality of Earnings, Corporate Governance and Capital Requirement. But Saurabh is skewing away again and again from the point that the PE is obviously justifiable if their is growth backing it up.
Super interesting points by Saurabh no doubt, it's just that a lack of structuring the argument is felt across the debate.
While not completely agreed on SM's investment style, I find it completely ridiculous the kind of hated( envy, jeolous ?) towards him from most of other fund managers and it seems they ganged up to continuously attack him, mock him. Well may be because this is a guy who came to India not many years ago, wrote successful books, manages one of the biggest PMS fund, has a cult following and all these with a simple strategy that is easy to understand. And most of others have been really involved for 20-30 years, twits hundreds times a day and lags far behind. You may not make multibagger returns in a short time but with his style definitely make more than good returns over longer horizon aith piece of mind.
Yes that's the point as Warren says no one wants to get rich slowly that makes saurabh different as he takes a long term view his returns in short term are in line with Nifty but long term returns are really good i just hate that street starts to judge managers with only few years
After reading comments, one ll realise that saurabh investment process is easily understood by many and praised by many but harsh reality is that investing is not easy and cant be explained it easily. No doubt sourabh is the story teller and writer while Sunil is one of the best fund manager.
Debate -
Story teller vs Fund manager.
Mr Saurabh . At 40.00 you hit the nail on head when you tried to explain on the “exceptional franchises “ .Hope the viewers will get the importance of this.
Now a days Fund managers are so much jealous of Saurabh Mukherjea.
Saurabh Mukherjea always advocate for good and trustworthy management and he invested in that companies.
But Sunil never disclose any company and most of them with shitty and Doubtful management.
Thank you, Maha Lakshmi, for bringing in such a good debate and moderating so well. You are equally knowledgeable as the panel. It is a great learning video on different styles of investment and what to watch out for. In the end, investment goals, risk appetite, and time horizon drive the approach.
Excellent debate! Worth the time, both the panelists have strong views on their investing styles! Only time till tell who will be the eventual winner!! Thanks Outlook for organizing this.
The economy hardship, recession, unemployment and loss of job caused by covid pandemic is enough to push people into financial ventures.
@JANE KYLER I wanted to invest more on digital Digital currency (crypto) but the fluctuations in crypto value discouraged me into dumping.
@@fordhamrusselchristiania6482That's why you need the help of a professional who trade and understand the market more to earn good income. These professionals understand the market like it's there own farm and makes maximum profits for investors.
It's surprising that people are so scared and discouraged by sudden drop in value, most crypto traders and investors are less knowledgeable about the dynamic of cryptocurrency. It's a time to buy the dip and connect with good traders that knows the Ins and outs of Wall Street wizardry. I'm covered and secured about the market thanks to TRADE EXPERT Mrs Kathy Lien .✅
Mrs Kathy Lien is obviously the best broker. I invested $4,500 with her and she made me profit $48,100 in 2 weeks and 3 days. It was mind blowing.
I've heard of her trading prowess.
I have seen this happen before. When markets are at peaks, debates rage on relevance of P/E. When markets decline to nadir, nobody does a debate on irrelevance of P/E.
Looking at Ttm p/e when more than 50% of the market has earnings degrowth vs FY19 is optically flawed..if u exclude the June qtr the PE may actually be 15-25% lower than what is being reported
most of the comments are in favor of Saurabh,
but what sunil mentioned is correct and these high PE stocks will most likely disappoint in coming decade.
these have not disappointed for last 10 years.. So may i know why they disappoint in coming decade..
Sunil thinking is right...don't believe in old economy stocks
@@venkatkrishna7943 read intelligent investor... Period between 1990-2003
@@venkatkrishna7943 read intelligent investor and One up on wall St
Lol i won't say high P/E are always bad in india it's really difficult to find good companies with low P/E unless there is a pessimism or bear market quality companies deserve that and in growing economy like india high P/E are prevalent i am a value investor i would say Quality is paramount if you for valuation only you will end up being trapped in a value trap don't confuse good businesses with bull market bull market conceals everything company you may think is a quality company may have issues so if you want to survive buy a good quality companies at a reasonable valuation as warren said it's better to buy a wonderful at a fair price rather than fair business at a wonderful price
I really admire saurabh for his incredible knowledge in stock markets and he was so clear in his philosaphy. He honestly shares what he buys and the conviction. One such example before my eyes is Alkyle amines ans what a stock and what an analysis from you
Great conversation. So much to learn. My admiration for Saurabh has increased post this video. The clarity in sharing the concept in a structured manner is so admiring.
Nicely done... both have made their points..every investor has different view and different characteristics. Circle of competence is important.
Aggressive investors can go with Sunil and conservative to minimal aggressive can invest in Saurabh's fund.
With due respect to Sunil, According to me Saurabh Mukherjee won the debate... He also won audiences hearts with his humble attitude
I disagree. There's much more dynamics to the market to categorise into one set of view.
Tumko lagta hai yeh... beacuse time Intelligent investor,One up on wall St(Peter Lynch) esab book nhi padhke coffe can investing padhe ho
Why does Sunil cuts Saurabh so unprofessionally?
Might have had a fight with wife?
@@khanjan_ab9647 😂😂
ego problem bhai. Saurabh is successful at a young age
That’s the difference between a sadak chat broker & a professional.
This is what reflects about your upbringing and character.
In my opinion Saurabh's investing style should ideally lead to low volatility moderate 12-15% returns over long term, it is meant for people who want to protect their capital from drawdowns. He is benefitting from short term outperformance.
It's 26.95%(CAGR) in last 2 years, March '19 to April '21.
@@rishimajumder4724 - That's actually the figure for 6-7 years now, if you add Ambit Coffee Can PMS performance. Same fund.
Would love to see anyone else even generate 15% CAGR besides them in the future with low volatility at 4% repo
Empirical data says that this style has given 20 - 25% in a decade, its in his book Coffee Can investing.
@@adityasalunke3444 - It'll take time for the current to reach these haters. Up until then their top holding will be Reliance and Sail. Lol
Mutual fund managers are really getting scared considering amount of wisdom shared by saurabh free of cost which is helping retail investors to do self investing and make better returns
The Moderator is awesome. Brilliant questions throughout the session.
Singhania saab ka abakkus ka pms mostly investing in doubtful companies n lalaji mgmt...thts y i cud see him defending things like company mgmt n all of small n midcaps is not bad n gettin frustrated many times...all abbakus pms companies r visible online on trendlyne easily n u people can easily see wat type of companies he investing in..most r very high risk high return.... Saurabh sir u keep doin ur good work n educatin people...u rock!
Can we also see the holdings of Marcellus PMS in trendlyne as well? while I couldn’t find data of it in trendlyne
We cant see Marcellus PMS data on trendlyne as none of their investments are beyond 1%. All holdings are published only if it exceeds 1 %. Hence, most big investors prefer to own below 1% of the company to be under the radar.
@@ssaurabh2.0 - You can see every holding of Marcellus in their Webinars on RUclips. He openly publishes them and discusses each stock at length. If you want I can share the holdings with you
@@KC-ge2ui please share
@@abhaypai313 - Abbott, Asian, Bajaj Finance, Berger, Hdfc Bank, Hdfc Life, Kotak, Pidilite, Relaxo, Nestle, Divis, Dr Lal Path, Page and Titan.
This was one and only session where Mr.Saurabh was questioned or disagreed to such a level . Treat to watch both greatest fund manager at a same platform.
Yeah
Most of the people are excited about who won
I have the same thinking as yours
Looking forward to more such interviews with contrary views.
This was a good discussion ...agree or disagree . People keep learning about investing and no one is a master . Until you are a thug life Rakesh Junjunwala.
Its really great to hear both.Lot of learnings.... specially regarding high pe companies...Basically the earnings growth is the main point to remember but at right valuations.
Nice debate. 2 different strategies, time will tell which one proves to be correct. But india definitely has a shortage of good quality companies and hence too much money tries to chase too few stocks bidding up their multiples.
I'll just say one thing Saurabh wasn't able to explain it properly, he was intimidated by Sunil by the respect he has for him. But no shit, there were a lot of jabs thrown at him which he wasn't able to ans to the best of his abilities.
CCP is a style of investing for 10 years. In which you are keeping in mind that 2-3 firms might tank but the exponential returns of the few shall more than compensate.
Only point, I have in mind is data validity by saurabh. Cause such a big deviation in sunil and his data doesn't make sense.
Saurabh sir . please gift your all books to sunilji 😁
OK. I am going to exit nestle, hdfc bank, Asian paints , pidilite , titan etc., today itself and invest in all psu stocks as they only have very low pe. Thank God I am saved
Saurav is a modern day investment thinker machine, is for sure.
Thanks for Great debate, Sunil ji.
The fact that most of the retail investors love Saurabh Mukherjee's habit of sharing his ideas and explaining the reason for buying those. Is pertinent enough to conclude that there is alot of sheep walk happening cz all the retail investors want is to get free idea's without doing any hard work of their own.
BEST STRATEGY FOR FAILURE !!
Sunil don’t get agressive like goonda/Don of capital markets. Your ego will bring you down Infront of Saurabh’s humility.
More power to you Saurabh
He didn't act like anything close to gunda if you see full. It was a very healthy discussion. Saurabh and Sunil said quite valid points at times.
I can sense wisdom in Saurabh Mukherjea's way of explaining things...I have great regard for him... everytime I tend to be doubtful on my portfolio, tend to lose some conviction at times start doubting him, he comes up with even more wisdom to prove me wrong.
Thoughtful. Its a high standard debate and discussion. Both of them have put their best. I feel both are right with the examples they have put. As a audience they shouldn't be compared against each other saying who won at the end but should be proud that we are able to hear their knowledge and experience in just less than hour.
I have a great admiration for Saurabh. However, as a smart investor we need to take Sunil's viewpoint into consideration as well. As much as I love to invest in great franchisees but I also consider at what valuation I am buying any stocks. Yes, this is true that in India you can't find great companies which is moderately priced but that doesn't mean I should go to an extent of buying a great company with a PE larger than 100. Otherwise we risk margin of safety.
A session on number crunching is much needed.. I love Saurabh's view and the companies that he comes up with but Mr. Singhania is a veteran who is a bcom graduate, a CA and a CFA and I don't think Saurabh can beat him at number crunching.. infact the moderator is challenging that the only company that grew by 20% XIRR is HDFC bank.
Excellent discussion. Experience vs New age outlook
A debate between a long term investor and a short term trader!
Who is trader n investor here
Sunil is trader
This was a great debate/discussion. Thank you
God let him (Saurabh) speak.
Beautiful insights..My portfolio is full of these champion franchises Saurabh discussed in this video and I fully agree with his viewpoint that till the underlying business of these great companies is firing all cylinders, then their PE values have no meaning.
How is your portfolio doing now if I may ask?
Asian paints share price has consistently grown by upwards of 25 percent in the last 5 years (not counting current year ofc).
Business model is more important than any parameters like pe 🔥
Still,You have to Buy at some price ,right?
Value trap .
If people putting whenever money they get in very good stocks no matter what PE ,it will more of mutual fund .
@@_NHN price doesn't matter if you stay invested in same stock for more than 10 years
@@igloballens PE is a trap instead look at other parameters
Heavyweight Championship: Sunil 'Strawman' Singhania v/s Sourabh 'Logic' Mukherjea
near 58:25 , a little of what saurabhji have said is trimmed. not sure what is the reason for that?
Nice debate guys .. irrespective of returns of these two portfolio managers , I enjoyed arguments for two different ideologies in investing
This is the beauty of market😊😊. Different person have different opinions. But always remember Markets are always right whereas opinions are often not😉😉.
A person's own conviction is ultimately decides success😊😊.
Both have different strategies of investing. Sunil's strategy is hard to implement. On the other hand Saurabh's approach is simple. Warren Buffett says a great business is like a castle and the CEO is like the king and people will try to take you down but the longevity helps you get rich.
Sunil misses the massive margin expansion which has happened at Pidilite and Asian Paints.
Exactly. He's stuck in the socialism driven Indian economy. Saurabh is
Miles ahead
I think we will now over the next few years see the sustainability of those margins in an inflationary environment
@@prashanthjana5895 - Especially in an inflationary scenario these companies would do better as the competition would get absolutely destroyed by the inflation and these companies would stand to gain.
Just watch Terry Smith of Fundsmith and you'll know why Saurabh will win this battle hands down in the long run
@@KC-ge2ui There is one difference between both. Terry gives quite a bit of importance to entry multiples.
In an inflationary environment, I agree that smaller players will be affected more. But profit pool of the industry itself will be compressed and hence everyone's margins go down in favour of RM suppliers like oil and chemical companies + some benefit to consumers as the impact of volume loss will be huge if the increase in RM costs are completely passed on to consumers
@@prashanthjana5895 agree. Terry Smith never says buy at any price. His philosophy is Buy good companies, DON'T OVERPAY, do nothing :).
PIDILITE Stock At Record High, Crosses 2000/Sh Milestone & Also Crosses 1 Lakh Crore Market Cap...
"Fevicol Ka Moat Hai! Tootega Nahi"
So Saurabh's Strategy of Investing in Monopolistic, Champion Franchises with Great Management (Very Few) looks better strategy for retail investors....
40:15 most important point
Thoroughly enjoyed....
Personally speaking, I have gained confidence, insight & money watching SM's interviews.
*Saurabh Mukherjea VS Industry* _industry yet to come up with an original idea, executable with code, rather than talking vague ideas in thin air._
32:35
Dumb: ETF ✅
Dumber: Mutual fund ❌
-----------------------
Nifty Index Fund
-----------------------
CAGR returns
20yr
11.39%
-----------------------
CAGR returns
10yr
10.97%
-----------------------
CAGR returns
5yr
15.23%
-----------------------
CAGR returns
3yr
13.73%
-----------------------
CAGR returns
1yr
67.75%
-----------------------
Absolutely!
All other fund managers hate the site of Saurabh Mukherjea. Saurabh is clear and has logic of what he says. Sunil Singhania is not even 1/100th of Saurabh.
@@স্টকবাংলা lol great
Why the hell did both, Sunil and the host kept harping on HUL and Colgate. Saurabh has never advocated them. In fact, there are multiple videos where Suarabh ridiculed HUL and explains how HUL is incomparable with Nestles or Marico.
Yes true but here sunil is saying he is loves towards the growth and invest in mid and small Saurabh need safety with large and good companies
Sunil represents old styled investing company and unable to see Saurabh’s point. Humbleness is key in every business. Stay hungry-stay foolish and one will win. If we were to succeed, intellectual leadership is all that we need which Saurabh represents