Warhammer Community had a post that explained why the other Chaos gods didn’t like the Skaven and what the Skaven thought of the other chaos types. As a demon of the horned rat named Clitterclaw said: ‘They scorned us, made us skitter in the shadows. Fear-filled they were, because they knew we were their antithesis. Our swarms kill with frenzy, but no rage. We scheme not for change but for changeless mastery. We defile without bringing new life. We consume without joy. Yes-yes, always have we been the rats gnawing in their bellies. They will learn this no less than the shining man-things, in this new age. We will use the Chaos-sworn, grind our foes to ruin with them. Then we shall gnash-feast on their bones too.’
Man, seeing the Great Horned Rat go from a minor god to a major threat makes me perfectly okay if he won the Great Game. I gotta respect his tenacity, especially since he keeps some Skaven around (Thanquol) because they're more or less funny to him.
Order? Sure, if greed, fire, shadows, torment, and tyranny equal order, but it's a stretch to say Chaos dwarves or other Hashut worshipers (??) represent order in anything other than the bleakest way. Which is fitting enough for Warhammer. Would be interested in a narrative involving some cultists trying to 'sell' Hashut in this way.
@@fumarc4501Fantasy had the Gods of Law, most prominently Solkan, who are just as bad as the Gods of Chaos but coming at it from the other angle (something else stolen from Moorcock) but had tiny followings and so were nowhere near as powerful.
Them sweeping in makes a ton of sense, dwarves and skaven as eternal enemies, chaos collapsing from infighting, their general vibe fitting aos perfectly. Heard some rumors about them coming in at the end of 4th edition, increased hints in books and side games. The Dawi-Zharr are returning and I for one can't wait to slap some Fyreslayers helmets onto some non-naked bodies!
The Great Horned Rat would be insanely powerful in 40k. I think the Skaven would be a great addition to the setting as they need a mad science faction other than the Mechanicus.
I always said they'd be a perfect malformed rat/ non rat faction so far gone from rats & or skaven that they become this amalgamation of beings but still recognisable as rats, like moulder Clan turned up by 1000% or even as you said a Skrye inprised scientist faction fueled by a warp stone system of planets? In the 40k setting.
@@novaharts6608 Could you imagine some sort of rat-man cybernetic monstrosity of all gears and mechanical limbs and strange warp-fueled, with a warpstone heart as a power source?
@crispy2802 through physical differences yes, but by lore and differences to add a faction I'd say otherwise. I'd think they'd be a brilliant addition.
The horned rat is god of ruin, he takes a bit from every other god but while they seek to build something from thier aspects (plans, life, cults and champions) the rat produces only ruins.
If the GHR becomes the 5th Chaos god I applaud GW for taking the leap to shaking up the lore. AoS has always felt a bit more fluid than 40k to me which is an advantage.
Yooooo this gotta mean we’re getting Great Horned Rat Demons too right? I know there’s the verminlords, but could we be seeing other minor demons equivalent to bloodletters or daemonettes?
I really love the concept of desperation being his domain very unique and apt. Very five minutes to midnight doomsayers but also scavengers and post apocalypic survivors
Just getting into AOS and I am waiting for the Skaventide box to arrive. This was a great introduction to Skaven and I am looking forward to listening to more of your content
The 8 pointed chaos Star was always linked to the 8 types of magic. So the amount of Gods isn't relevant for that. And those were linked in the fantasy lore because magic comes from chaos.
Well the Eight-Pointed Star was cribbed from Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion stories, where ad Chaos' symbol it represents trying everything at once and going nowhere while Order's symbol is a single arrow, representing progress but without any freedom, just one direction for all.
I dont get to play much if any age of sigmar. But Skaven sense i found out about them as a teen has always been my favorit. With the great hirnwd rat getting the treatment he deserves i deeply hope they come to 40k/kill team. Hell i already kitbash models into skaven just so i can have some.
I liked to think about the Great Horned Rat as a god of Ruin. He is focused on the destruction and clans, and the aspects that they venerate are different means of destruction.
In 40K it's just not possible Those Minor-Gods exceptions where probably born when the Chaos Gods where Sleeping and found a Hole where to hide or gave their alliance to one of the Chaos Gods
Yes Despair is perfect for the Horned Rat. Against order, chaos it's own siblings that play their desperate Great Game. Despair can even feed off of undead. Despair is how many come to the Flesh Eater Courts, the Soulblight are plagued by their own despair at their curses, at their hunger, at their place under Nagash's thumb, and while the Bonereapers can never feel fear. They have some freewill and I imagine many would feel the pains of despair when their Soulgems are about to be crushed. When the enemy breaks through their shield wall. Not despair at death but despair at failing Nagash whome they are programmed service forever
Desperation is different from despair. Nurgle is most certainly a god of despair, those who have lost hope. Desperation, on the other hand, is when there are little to no scraps left and the need to survive is so great that those desperate would scrape and claw over even each other to survive. Skaven embody this perfectly.
Now we just need Vashtorr in 40k to ascend and join the Four Chaos Gods of that setting as the true Fifth Chaos God, he's kinda already there with how much they rely on Vashtorr and his Daemon Engines. And how he's already able to commit all kinds of chaos shenanigans like fixing up Abaddon's Planet Killer like it was nothing.
Now we need a video telling about how epic they are. What plans do you want now that the great horned rat is actually a god. Idk I thought it was an epic idea
With the elevation of the great horned rat and the god now feeding off a human emotion, will there be chaos cultists that worship him? These individuals would be desperate What would that look like and what boons would the great horned rat grant?
my hope is with this skaven get pushed into 40k as they feed on the warp and only now found a way to escape the warp as they have been forced down by the other chaos gods
Not despair. Desperation is the Horned rat. Despair is falling into the idea that you have no hope. No future, im essence, you allow atrophy and stagnation to take you. Desperation is when you will do **ANYTHING** no matter what it is, to get food, to get security, sate your thirst., it is the idea that you no longer care for your fellow man and are so solely focused on yourself that you absconded from all reason to pursue what you want. You may not even care for yourself as long as you strive for what you want.
Wait what's the dift between the Great Horned Rat Desperation and Nurlge's so are they competing for the same emotion now ? Can you maybe make a video about that😂
GHR is desperation, devouring even those closest to you just for survival. Nurgle is despair, giving in to hopelessness. Both play off of the fear of death but one response is rabid hunger and the other is dour depression.
They are all the worse qualities of humans. I hope they keep that angle going into it. They deserve to be hated so much they are loved for being hated. At least, to me, thats what makes the Skaven stand out as a faction. The vile nature of them is a concept by far GWs bests works to me.
In old lore, there was a minor xenos race called the Hrud that were vaguely Skaven-like. GW describes the Hrud very differently in more recent years. So if you're interested in recent, official lore, then there's no Skaven analogue. But you can easily homebrew by referencing old lore.
Beastmen are closer to Destruction than Skaven are. The Destruction factions are pretty much all nomadic, tribal and marauding, which describes Beastmen exactly. If it wasn't for their worship of the Dark Gods they'd fit perfectly. Skaven are still very chaotic. They infight constantly, struggle to organize, and exist outside the Mortal Realms proper in their own pocket dimension. It's true that Destruction and Chaos have more in common than Death and Order do with each other, though.
What's your take on the legend of Skavor? The dwarf ancestor god exiled from the pantheon for having no skill in metal or stonework? The story goes he turned to fleshcrafting to turn himself into a monstrous rat-beast and swore revenge on his former family. And I keep thinking, how desperate(!) for a purpose he must've been to do such a thing.
I love to see the GHR join the pantheon - for an edition. Definitely don't want it to stay 5 gods of chaos. Hope to see Slaanesh break free and kick him off his seat for next edition!
Isnt desperation more of a nurgle thing? If anything i would say the great horned rats emotion would be spite or something involving greed and selfishness. nurgle is desperation because when you have the grandfathers gift youre so desperate for it to end that you willingly accept him and become a worshiper of him. Desperation really isnt the right choice here for the great horned rat imo. Just doesnt really make sense.
Desperation in this sense is more along the lines of stooping down so low that it’s not even clever, rage fueled, pleasurable, and doesn’t even bring about anything new it just leads to ruin, which Nurgle isn’t about
GHR is desperation, devouring even those closest to you just for survival. Nurgle is despair, giving in to hopelessness. Both play off of the fear of death but one response is rabid hunger and the other is dour depression.
Yeah I caught that too. I think Nurgle despair is like a desire to perpetuate one's existence, a regret. HR would be like primal panic, fight or flight in the face of fright.
Desperation is a active emotion, you kill out of desperation, you scrable through muck desperate for food, desperate for love you slaughter friends and family..
@@cthulhluftagn3812 In my native language (french), despair and desperation are the same word. you can either let despair eat you out and die (nurgle) or fight for your life and be ready to do anything and everything else to survive, no matter the cost yto yourself or the others. both are the result of the loss of hope, it's the same thing, just two different ways to deal with it. It's like saying khorne rage is just screaming, mindless rage but another new god is the god of wrath, explaining it as silent, focused rage, like it's different...
I'm not saying i'm against it in a vaccum but the horned rat has always been the god of all of the other gods traits pushed to the point of no return (that's why he was the god of ruin): - he's scheming like tzeentch but he's also completely paranoid because he sees everybody as competitors trying to outscheme him makes him a more extreme version of tzeentch. - he wants war and violence just like khorne but his war are more against his own kind (once again, his paranoia) than anybody else, skavens kill more skavens than any other races and even when they fight together they still kill more skavens than they kill enemys (friendly fire galore). - he is perfectionism and excess, but to a ridiculous degree, skaven reproduce more than anybody else (have you seen female skavens man?) they eat each other, they all portray themselves and see themselves as the greatest-best skavens (even skaven slaves thinks they're the best). - and finally, as said in previous comments, he is despair and pestilence (ask the clan pestilent about pests) but his form of despair is more vile and his form of pestilence is so potent that, unlike nurgle who creates life out of death, once his plagues hits, everything gets sterile, there is no cycle, just the end.
so having him be "the god of desperation" diminishs him so much in my eyes. it's not wrong, he's just way WAY more than that. he's all the other 4 but worse.
The giant rat gets to make all of the rules.
On god fr
What kind of animal would I be? SERIOUS ANSWERS ONLY.
Rats. We're rats. We're the rats!
We're the rats we prey at night we stalk at night we're the rats@@iExploder
The Rules are: NO RULES! GO NUTS!
Warhammer Community had a post that explained why the other Chaos gods didn’t like the Skaven and what the Skaven thought of the other chaos types. As a demon of the horned rat named Clitterclaw said:
‘They scorned us, made us skitter in the shadows. Fear-filled they were, because they knew we were their antithesis. Our swarms kill with frenzy, but no rage. We scheme not for change but for changeless mastery. We defile without bringing new life. We consume without joy. Yes-yes, always have we been the rats gnawing in their bellies. They will learn this no less than the shining man-things, in this new age. We will use the Chaos-sworn, grind our foes to ruin with them. Then we shall gnash-feast on their bones too.’
I bet Malal/Malice loves the little guys
@@aleanddragonITA The GHR is basically GW's answer to Malal since they can't get him due to legal reasons.
@@aleanddragonITAthe quote specifically mentions not having ill intent at all so no, that would make no sense
@@alfredandersson875
But Malal/Malice isn't about Ill Intent...
It's about Chaos being Self-Destructive!
Man this little creature live out of pure spite and malicious. They want to kill everything physical and spiritual, simply because they exist they can
Man, seeing the Great Horned Rat go from a minor god to a major threat makes me perfectly okay if he won the Great Game.
I gotta respect his tenacity, especially since he keeps some Skaven around (Thanquol) because they're more or less funny to him.
Can't wait for the Chaos God of Order, Hashut, to come in and balance the equation once more.
Order? Sure, if greed, fire, shadows, torment, and tyranny equal order, but it's a stretch to say Chaos dwarves or other Hashut worshipers (??) represent order in anything other than the bleakest way. Which is fitting enough for Warhammer. Would be interested in a narrative involving some cultists trying to 'sell' Hashut in this way.
@@billybongos957 What is tyranny if not the ultimate imposement of order? Nagash knows this as well.
Was thinking the same thing. After all pure Order isn’t the same as Unity among peoples. Kind of like Jyggalag from TES.
@@fumarc4501Fantasy had the Gods of Law, most prominently Solkan, who are just as bad as the Gods of Chaos but coming at it from the other angle (something else stolen from Moorcock) but had tiny followings and so were nowhere near as powerful.
Them sweeping in makes a ton of sense, dwarves and skaven as eternal enemies, chaos collapsing from infighting, their general vibe fitting aos perfectly. Heard some rumors about them coming in at the end of 4th edition, increased hints in books and side games. The Dawi-Zharr are returning and I for one can't wait to slap some Fyreslayers helmets onto some non-naked bodies!
So this should mean that the Great Horned Rat should have mortal followers now, and Slaves to Darkness should be getting marks of the horned rat now?
That would be cool!
The Great Horned Rat would be insanely powerful in 40k. I think the Skaven would be a great addition to the setting as they need a mad science faction other than the Mechanicus.
Please, by the Emperor, No. Leave them in the Old world. There is enough insanity in the Galaxy.
I always said they'd be a perfect malformed rat/ non rat faction so far gone from rats & or skaven that they become this amalgamation of beings but still recognisable as rats, like moulder Clan turned up by 1000% or even as you said a Skrye inprised scientist faction fueled by a warp stone system of planets? In the 40k setting.
@@novaharts6608 Could you imagine some sort of rat-man cybernetic monstrosity of all gears and mechanical limbs and strange warp-fueled, with a warpstone heart as a power source?
Let the reader understand… there’s very little difference between the Imperium and the Skaven…
@crispy2802 through physical differences yes, but by lore and differences to add a faction I'd say otherwise. I'd think they'd be a brilliant addition.
The idea that the realm of chaos is in effect being invaded by and corrupted by the Skaven and The Great Horned Rat... means they are chaos squared
SKAVEN GREATEST, BEST FACTION-RACE AROUND YES-YES
YES-YES!
Much better than tailless furless man-things.
The horned rat is god of ruin, he takes a bit from every other god but while they seek to build something from thier aspects (plans, life, cults and champions) the rat produces only ruins.
The Troll God. Just wants to mess everything up. Thats it. It's all.
I love every part of this. Glad we're finally getting some real info on the Great Horned Rat.
Glad you enjoy it!
If the GHR becomes the 5th Chaos god I applaud GW for taking the leap to shaking up the lore. AoS has always felt a bit more fluid than 40k to me which is an advantage.
Welp, Gotrek has a lot of work ahead of him.
right? haha
Yooooo this gotta mean we’re getting Great Horned Rat Demons too right? I know there’s the verminlords, but could we be seeing other minor demons equivalent to bloodletters or daemonettes?
There’s theories the skaven themselves are daemons of the GHR.
Wouldn't those just be skaven
The great horned rat was always a chaos god.
Finally! Im so excited to see just how weird the Mortal Realms are about to get.
I really love the concept of desperation being his domain very unique and apt. Very five minutes to midnight doomsayers but also scavengers and post apocalypic survivors
Just getting into AOS and I am waiting for the Skaventide box to arrive. This was a great introduction to Skaven and I am looking forward to listening to more of your content
The 8 pointed chaos Star was always linked to the 8 types of magic. So the amount of Gods isn't relevant for that.
And those were linked in the fantasy lore because magic comes from chaos.
Well the Eight-Pointed Star was cribbed from Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion stories, where ad Chaos' symbol it represents trying everything at once and going nowhere while Order's symbol is a single arrow, representing progress but without any freedom, just one direction for all.
I dont get to play much if any age of sigmar. But Skaven sense i found out about them as a teen has always been my favorit.
With the great hirnwd rat getting the treatment he deserves i deeply hope they come to 40k/kill team.
Hell i already kitbash models into skaven just so i can have some.
Love your vids. You're the only AOS YT I fallow. Great job as always
I liked to think about the Great Horned Rat as a god of Ruin. He is focused on the destruction and clans, and the aspects that they venerate are different means of destruction.
This is new. Usually the Four are WAAAAY more territorial. AoS is really expanding even the Chaos Gods and the Realms of Chaos.
Fantastic!
In 40K it's just not possible
Those Minor-Gods exceptions where probably born when the Chaos Gods where Sleeping and found a Hole where to hide or gave their alliance to one of the Chaos Gods
I mean, Slaanesh is still at least partially MIA. So the Horned Rat has kinda moved in on the unoccupied territory.
Does this mean that the rats are going to make an appearance in 40k?
Can I request you start using playlists? would love if the lore videos were grouped.
Great Horned Rat is the friend who finally got a PC beefy enough to play online with the rest of the group and made a build so stupid it works.
finally more AoS Lore! I have been dying for it
Yes Despair is perfect for the Horned Rat. Against order, chaos it's own siblings that play their desperate Great Game. Despair can even feed off of undead. Despair is how many come to the Flesh Eater Courts, the Soulblight are plagued by their own despair at their curses, at their hunger, at their place under Nagash's thumb, and while the Bonereapers can never feel fear. They have some freewill and I imagine many would feel the pains of despair when their Soulgems are about to be crushed. When the enemy breaks through their shield wall. Not despair at death but despair at failing Nagash whome they are programmed service forever
Desperation is different from despair. Nurgle is most certainly a god of despair, those who have lost hope. Desperation, on the other hand, is when there are little to no scraps left and the need to survive is so great that those desperate would scrape and claw over even each other to survive. Skaven embody this perfectly.
the great horned rat is tzeentching better then tzeentch
and he nurgles better than nurgle
Apparently the rat and tzeench get along quite well, not sure about nurgle..
@@cthulhluftagn3812 IIRC Nurgle will work with the Big Cheese if he has to, but he doesn't like doing so.
Tzeentch has worked with the Great Horned Rats forces in the past. Human cultists on the inside and Skaven under them ready to strike.
I love skavens
Dude idk why I find skayven so kool
Now we just need Vashtorr in 40k to ascend and join the Four Chaos Gods of that setting as the true Fifth Chaos God, he's kinda already there with how much they rely on Vashtorr and his Daemon Engines. And how he's already able to commit all kinds of chaos shenanigans like fixing up Abaddon's Planet Killer like it was nothing.
Now we need a video telling about how epic they are. What plans do you want now that the great horned rat is actually a god. Idk I thought it was an epic idea
Can't believe Skavenblight is no more!
Ohh maybe one day we will see 40k skaven ^^
Rats, Rats, we are the Rats!🐀
Favorite faction bar none
Doug what's the music? It's so good
Nice 👍🏻, will you also make videos about the skaventide book ?
With the elevation of the great horned rat and the god now feeding off a human emotion, will there be chaos cultists that worship him?
These individuals would be desperate
What would that look like and what boons would the great horned rat grant?
I always wanted lesser daemons for skaven, snd somehow, skaven in 40k as a new chaos faction
RAT MARINES!
my hope is with this skaven get pushed into 40k as they feed on the warp and only now found a way to escape the warp as they have been forced down by the other chaos gods
Rats!❤
6:42 So Nurgle is Despair and the great horned rat is as well?
Not despair. Desperation is the Horned rat.
Despair is falling into the idea that you have no hope. No future, im essence, you allow atrophy and stagnation to take you.
Desperation is when you will do **ANYTHING** no matter what it is, to get food, to get security, sate your thirst., it is the idea that you no longer care for your fellow man and are so solely focused on yourself that you absconded from all reason to pursue what you want. You may not even care for yourself as long as you strive for what you want.
Wait what's the dift between the Great Horned Rat Desperation and Nurlge's so are they competing for the same emotion now ? Can you maybe make a video about that😂
GHR is desperation, devouring even those closest to you just for survival. Nurgle is despair, giving in to hopelessness. Both play off of the fear of death but one response is rabid hunger and the other is dour depression.
They are all the worse qualities of humans. I hope they keep that angle going into it. They deserve to be hated so much they are loved for being hated. At least, to me, thats what makes the Skaven stand out as a faction. The vile nature of them is a concept by far GWs bests works to me.
Rats rats rats
So skaven are chaos spawn now ?
rats rats we are the rats
Are the Skaven present in 40k? Or were they wiped out by the Emperor in the crusades???
In old lore, there was a minor xenos race called the Hrud that were vaguely Skaven-like. GW describes the Hrud very differently in more recent years. So if you're interested in recent, official lore, then there's no Skaven analogue. But you can easily homebrew by referencing old lore.
Skaven always felt more destruction than chaos to me.
Am I alone here?
Doesn't Chaos always end up in Destruction?
Malal/Malice is the same as it represent the Auto-Destructive Nature of Chaos
Ruin is the aftermath of destruction, so in a sense yes. Probably why the chaos gods find them a nuisance
@@aleanddragonITA yeah I suppose so
@@donut2931 yeah chaos and destruction should be more closely aligned, you’d think.
Beastmen are closer to Destruction than Skaven are. The Destruction factions are pretty much all nomadic, tribal and marauding, which describes Beastmen exactly. If it wasn't for their worship of the Dark Gods they'd fit perfectly.
Skaven are still very chaotic. They infight constantly, struggle to organize, and exist outside the Mortal Realms proper in their own pocket dimension. It's true that Destruction and Chaos have more in common than Death and Order do with each other, though.
Using stable to describe anything Skaven is so odd to me.
What's your take on the legend of Skavor? The dwarf ancestor god exiled from the pantheon for having no skill in metal or stonework? The story goes he turned to fleshcrafting to turn himself into a monstrous rat-beast and swore revenge on his former family. And I keep thinking, how desperate(!) for a purpose he must've been to do such a thing.
Ratz!!!
I love to see the GHR join the pantheon - for an edition. Definitely don't want it to stay 5 gods of chaos. Hope to see Slaanesh break free and kick him off his seat for next edition!
Isnt desperation more of a nurgle thing? If anything i would say the great horned rats emotion would be spite or something involving greed and selfishness. nurgle is desperation because when you have the grandfathers gift youre so desperate for it to end that you willingly accept him and become a worshiper of him. Desperation really isnt the right choice here for the great horned rat imo. Just doesnt really make sense.
Desperation in this sense is more along the lines of stooping down so low that it’s not even clever, rage fueled, pleasurable, and doesn’t even bring about anything new it just leads to ruin, which Nurgle isn’t about
GHR is desperation, devouring even those closest to you just for survival. Nurgle is despair, giving in to hopelessness. Both play off of the fear of death but one response is rabid hunger and the other is dour depression.
Isn't despair already an emotion going to nurgle (as an opposite to the hope of tzeentch)? What's the difference between despair and desperation?
Yeah I caught that too. I think Nurgle despair is like a desire to perpetuate one's existence, a regret. HR would be like primal panic, fight or flight in the face of fright.
Desperation is a active emotion, you kill out of desperation, you scrable through muck desperate for food, desperate for love you slaughter friends and family..
@@cthulhluftagn3812 In my native language (french), despair and desperation are the same word. you can either let despair eat you out and die (nurgle) or fight for your life and be ready to do anything and everything else to survive, no matter the cost yto yourself or the others. both are the result of the loss of hope, it's the same thing, just two different ways to deal with it. It's like saying khorne rage is just screaming, mindless rage but another new god is the god of wrath, explaining it as silent, focused rage, like it's different...
I'm not saying i'm against it in a vaccum but the horned rat has always been the god of all of the other gods traits pushed to the point of no return (that's why he was the god of ruin):
- he's scheming like tzeentch but he's also completely paranoid because he sees everybody as competitors trying to outscheme him makes him a more extreme version of tzeentch.
- he wants war and violence just like khorne but his war are more against his own kind (once again, his paranoia) than anybody else, skavens kill more skavens than any other races and even when they fight together they still kill more skavens than they kill enemys (friendly fire galore).
- he is perfectionism and excess, but to a ridiculous degree, skaven reproduce more than anybody else (have you seen female skavens man?) they eat each other, they all portray themselves and see themselves as the greatest-best skavens (even skaven slaves thinks they're the best).
- and finally, as said in previous comments, he is despair and pestilence (ask the clan pestilent about pests) but his form of despair is more vile and his form of pestilence is so potent that, unlike nurgle who creates life out of death, once his plagues hits, everything gets sterile, there is no cycle, just the end.
so having him be "the god of desperation" diminishs him so much in my eyes. it's not wrong, he's just way WAY more than that. he's all the other 4 but worse.
👍👍
🤣10:17 Blackkk ✊🏿 corruption
Ghr in 40k
AOS is just awful 😂😂😂