This KNOT Is 28.3% BETTER Than A PALOMAR
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- I have always used a Palomar knot..until today..this knot is way better than a Palomar knot!
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There are a ton of different knots out there on the market..however..I decided to use my push pull force gauge to try and find the best braided fishing knot and I finally found it!
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It might be better for some of these knot tests to use a strong bait hook. Using a thick metal ring won’t allow a knot like clinch knot to hold the tag end as the knot pulls away from the ring. This is why a uni knot is better for tying to split rings because the knot is around the line. Thanks for doing these.
His tests has no validity. Make a difference tieing around a huge ring makes no sense at all.
😅😅😅⁷
Exactly. I agree 100%. I do a lot of testing on my automated Chatillon TCD 200 machine. It pulls the knot at a fixed speed automatically. My tests show that knots tied on rings behave completely different than knots tied on hooks. One major difference you can see is that if you tie on a big ring, it tends to form a teardrop shape as you pull. It loads the knot up in a different direction. When the knot is tied to a hook, the teardrop shape will not happen, so the knot cinches down on itself.
Knots like the Trilene knot that is clearly a 100% knot if tied properly, would not be as strong then tied to a ring because it depends on the tag end being cinched right up to the eyehook. With the teardrop, the tag end does not take up some of the load and the line tightens up on the coils around the main end. Most of the failure is caused by the coils wrapping around the main line tightening up and breaking the line. With the tag end, the coils does not form a death grip around the main line and helps take up the load. I tested 50-100 of the Trilene knots and most break but leaves the knot perfectly in place. I only do the Trilene knots for most of my fishing after running a lot of tests.
You're absolutely right, this way its more realistic as most of us here will be tying these to hooks or lures on smaller gauge metal loops.
I came here to say that too. Needs to be tested with the knot tied to a ring the size on a bait hook, lure, or swivel...not a giant metal ring. The angle at which the braid is forced to by that huge ring is why it pulls out (because braid is so strong and slick at that tension...a regular mono or flouro would snap.) Otherwise why would fisherman use it? So do it with a small size ring where it actually clinches...and don't use Vaseline just to save face lol...this is not a good test for fishing...maybe for rope tied to a hitch or something.
Its also one of the reason why the knot tests you see in the Fred Hall (or called Bart Hall) shows are also very flawed. They use a very large ring in that tests. The winners are usually the ones that break well above the line strength and the failure is not at the knot.
It tells you the results are actually based on which part of the line you get from the spool because microscopic flaws would mean the difference between the #1 or the #3 person on the top list. Basically it is not longer your knot skill but the luck of the draw when the take line from the spool.
IMHO where people mess up with the Palomar on fluoro is that it is strong on a steady pull. It is weak on a slack shock. Knot testing does not account for that. I would rather see the knots tied to a swivel or split ring instead of that fat ring. Different stress on the knot.
Yeah it's kinda hard to beat a knot that is basically 100 percent strength I think he should of used an anchor with a smaller diameter to more fairly test them
You must try bassgangsta knot it’s insane 🍻
I hear that about shock or slack shock on leaders often and it makes me wonder. These lines and leaders are secured to reels through guides generally on 5’ to 7’ long flexible rods. One of the main purposes of rods is flexing to reduce shock. Beyond that nearly all have drags set on the reels. I am highly skeptical of all this reliance on shock leaders.
Needs to be tied to a strong hook. This whole video is wring bc of that huge ring he's using, it won't let the knot clinch up correctly.
You are correct there are actually a lot of factors when fishing that knot tests do not and can not account for.
I love these knot wars. I have always been very interested in this. Thank you and keep up the great work.
Absolutely loved this vid bro! Amazing knowledge being shared here! Thank you for the time it took to make this one!!
I liked your testing & the way you presented this video.
I learnt a new knot too - the modified uni / fishn' fool knot ☺
thank you !!
Ted
? Do the results concern you at all that you're tying it to a larger diameter ring than a hook or lure would have?? I wonder if the knots would be pinched and stressed differently on a smaller diameter ring?
Great video, I have always referred to it as a modified uni knot, and I found it to be the best knot. It's great to see your data backing up my experience.
With a surprising improvement of the double Palomar I would love to see an update for your fluorocarbon video with that knot
Nice knot testing demonstration... Definitely going for the fishn fool knot with braid
I appreciate the time spent. I learned a knee knot I never knew of. Why I watch these.
The best knot is one you can tie consistently correct and can see that it is tied correctly before it lets you know it wasn’t by breaking. The added advantage of a Palomar knot ( at least for me) is that it can be tied just by feel which is a huge benefit when night fishing.
This is why I tell new anglers to learn the uni knot. Add and extra loop through the hook eye and it super strong. Also use the “double uni” for an easy line to line leader knot .
Yeah, uni is my go to knot for the reason that it is very versatile. The extra loop was pointed out to me years ago to prevent slippage but I didn't realize it was the strongest.
Thank you for taking my advice and adding the Fish n Fool knot to your knot test videos.
If you get a gap can you please test it on 20lb fluorocarbon as well and drop the stats here?
Interested to see how it performs on the fluorocarbon.
Hey Ty glad to hear you like and use my knot.
Double Palomar with braid, don't care how it comes out in the test. I set the hook on a frog as hard as the rest, never had an issue. 8" punker, same.
I have used the Chinese knot for years and caught a lot of fish! 😮
Great video, but I would like to see a repeat of this test with either a snap ring or hook eyelet to better simulate the knots we use. Tight lines!
Thank you, I learned something today. Looking forward to the Braid to Flouro Video
Man you're like Buddy the elf crankin a jack in the box! You wince every time the line snaps haha!
Very good test! Thank you! 👍 I also would've liked to have seen the trilene and the double (or improved) trilene knot added to the test after the clinch. I was very glad you included what line you were using because over the years I've found that some knots that work well with certain braids, end up failing on others. Back in the 80's we quickly find that grandpa's old knots had to be "improved" or "doubled" to help hold. Then later in the late 80's - early 90's we found locking the tag end with a knot or lashing kept some from slipping out. For a little while I even remember everyone carrying around superglue to "lock" their knots... I was never a fan of the glue method for many reasons. The funny thing is, I've seen and tried so many different versions of all different knots and with the braid technology of today, I've found that most of us have reverted back to the older knots we started with! 😂 My favorite knots today are palomar, trilene, and sometimes the improved clinch pulled tight with the tag end double back lashed. When I'm joining lines no matter what type or brand I exclusively use the double uni.
I fish saltwater mainly and some old timers told me I should double up on the loop when I do my uni to prevent slippage. They didn't have a name for it either. But I've been using it ever since.
Great video. Learning the fishing fool knot!
I use the Trilene Knot for terminal tackle , I snell all of my hooks . Some others I use are the Surgeons knot and loop , I fish salt water and have no problem with them , been doing it for over 40 years.
Please do a short follow up with a quick test of the double palomar , but please take the double line through the eye twice before tying
I liked your video as i am just getting into using braid, but to me it was more of a test for the braid because on most of them it didn't at the knot. but I have learned so new knots so thank you.
I've been attaching flies (18 to 22) and ultralight spinners to mono using a two-wrap nail-knot tied (with the help of a wood toothpick). I've never seen someone use it for terminal tackle or to attach tippet or leaders... A leader section terminating with a double-overhand, then feed the thinner line thru the loop of the unset double-overhand, a two-wrap nail-knot fixes the thinner leader / tippet to the fatter mono. I can't speak much about it, as I lack the scientific testing gear. This is much better than the clinch and blood knots that I tied for years.
I think there may be a benefit to trying these knots with also a smaller test lb.
The smaller diameters should cinch differently and, therefore, break differently.
I fish saltwater mainly and knot strength matters especially when you're reeling in a giant bluefish. I learn the modified uni when I first started fishing, an old timer suggested to double loop the braid before tying on the uni to prevent slippage. He didn't have a name for it either but I just started referring to it as the double loop uni, it has been my go to knot because for me the uni is the most versatile knot. I didn't even know it was the strongest.
It would be nice if you showed us how to tie the top knot the fishing for night. I’m pretty sure I learned how to tie this knot from a guy fishing in Texas. What a jig. I’m wondering if it’s the same not. It never broke for me.
I’m very excited for the leader knot video
Buy some Jerry Brown Spliceable Hollow Braided Spectra 60 lb and Daho Threading/Looping/Splicing needles. Then make loop knot and do a beaking pull test. It will blow all knots away on breaking point.
Then make wind knot, hollow core braid to leader. It will out preform the fg and pr bobbin knot.
Just found the Fish n Fool knot and it’s my go to now
Snell knot has many more advantages than strength. I use it whenever possible and it has improved my landing percentage…
That doesn't look like a true snell
My braid fails for me the most when my lure hook has pierced the line and I do not cut and retie. ( I always say, I’ll retie after next cast, then it fails😂) I have tied the Uni knot 7 wraps on braid and never had it fail. Your mileage may vary!
Love these videos very infor.ative glad someone's doing them thanksn
Thanks for watching them!
You ahould do a loop knot war vid. I use the Rapala knot for basically everything I throw in all fishing applications. It has only failed on me when i forgot check my loop after catching 15+ bass. Thats the inly downfall of loop knots. The loop takes most of the strain and becomes weak after awhile. Just gotta keep an eye on it or just clip your old loop knot and tie another fresh one on.
I've always wondered why most of the people on You Tube who talk about their knot of choice (not including the people who actually do comparison tests on their knots, quite obviously) say the Palomar is the strongest. I ran my own tests several months back, using Power Pro, and the Palomar broke at only about 70 percent at best, while the improved version of the uni-knot (with two passes through the eye) was stronger than 100 percent of the rated strength every single time.
I did another test with mono, where I simply tied an improved clinch knot to one end of a length of a length of line, and a Palomar knot to the other end, and pulled from both ends to see which knot would fail. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so the weaker of the two knots will be the one that fails. In about 25 trials, the Palomar knot was the one that broke every time. Then I did a few trials of actually measuring the strength on mono, and the improved clinch knot was always well into the 90-percent range, and the Palomar was far weaker (I don't recall exactly, but I seem to remember that it was never quite as good as 3/4 of the line's rated strength). I don't use an improved uni knot with mono since an improved clinch knot is easier for me and this knot already has far better strength than most others, so I didn't include that in my comparison. Maybe if I ever compared those two knots with mono I'd start using the improved uni-knot for mono too.
I did those tests to see if it was worth it to start using the Palomar knot like half the people on RUclips say we should all be doing, and the answer for me, is "no".
By the way, every spool of Power Pro fishing line used to come with a booklet full of recommended knots, and their name for your "fishin' fool" knot was just the "uni knot". That's why for years, I always thought that putting that extra loop through the eye when starting a uni knot was standard procedure. I never even considered trying that knot with just a single pass through the eye. It wasn't until I saw your video that I knew anyone ever tied it with a single loop through the eye, or that there might be a reason for me to start calling my old uni knot the "improved uni knot".
My conclusion here is that for the strength and quick/ease of tying, that double palomar is the winner for me. FishNFool knot was a new knot for me, and while easy to tie, its not nearly as easy as the double palomar.
Good work!
the fish n fool knot is the only knot I know how to tie. didn't know it was called that, or even a uni knot. found. it on RUclips at some point after losing a fish and lure due to my inexperience with knot tying. since I learned that knot I haven't lost lure since.
I've been using a no name knot my grandfather used my whole life and it turns out to be a simpler version of the fish n fool knot. My grandfather's knot breaks half the time and slips half the time so I guess I'll try the fish n fool to see what happens next time I hang up on a log.
Thats awesome test ! 🍻
Now you have to test the fish n fool know and the double palomar with fluorocarbon
My new knot for lures is improved uni, and for braid to flouro: FG KNOT. Thanks!!
I am wondering if that FishNFool/ modified uni is any good for fluorocarbon knots? It wasn't on the knot test for fluoro.
I used double pitzen a few times. Guess I didn’t cinch it down well enough but lost my frog on a cast. Never tying it again lol
Do you think that tying it to such a large ring Makes a difference as oppose to tying it to a hook eyelet?
Maybe try a hybrid knot between the fishin fool and the Palomar. Meaning, pass your doubled over line through the eye twice just like you do with the fishin fool. Then proceed with the double palomar as you had previously. It’s tricky to cinch but I haven’t been able to break it.
Another great video!
So, for Florcarbon line, is the san diago jam knot better than the fish and fool knot? Or would the double uni knot be better? What's your thoughts?
Always used the improved clinched knot without any issues for braid.
Make sure to tighten it while it is wet.
Also, don't tie around a large diameter ring, please tie around something realistic like a hook or bait eye. Thanks!
I have been using the Fishing Full Knot for 2 lb. test leaders when trout fishing.
I've broken off so many times with the regular palomar I finally gave it up..
Now I'll try the double Palomar...
It was crazy to me how much better the knot was with one more loop
Dude ive launched 3/4 oz baits on the single palomar, after doing it a few times i gave up too honestly
Just tie the Fish-N-Fool knot it is stronger with all 3 line types and easy to tie.
@@FishNFoolLures ok..
You won't have problems w/a double Palomar.
Love this test(s). Had enough knot tying yet?lol Howa bout trying it with the line WET. Wonder if/bet your #'s change?! Thanks!
Thank you I will have to learn it
Nice job
Would you try something to satisfy my curiosity? You're using that large ring to tie the braids to. Would you test just the top 2 or three knots when tied to a regular hook or swivel? I believe it will change your end data and may even rearrange the order of knot strength.
Lost a $7 chatterbait yesterday when a fish hit it at the bank because the palomar pulled through. Now that was on flouro so I am heading over to watch THAT video. I have to agree that the thickness of the ring probably caused a lot of issues with the clinch knots. I know it is easier to tie on the big ring but this would have been better with a ring diameter that we normally use. Still, I lost total confidence in the Palomar. Twice I have had it slip. So I will try the fishing fool knot. Looks easy enough. Thanks and love your content!!
Not saying you don’t know how to tie the knot correctly but one key factor to the Palomar is that the mainline going to the knot and the tag end coming out of the knot must both go back through the same loop, otherwise all you have done is created a slip knot.
@@richardbossman9875 And it very well probably is my fault. I'm knot knocking the knot itself, just my issues doing it right.😆
@@danielwallace8434 Tie a double Palomer correctly on braid, flouro and mono...and you won't have any problems and quick to tie.
please do a mono and braided line LOOP knot test :D love ur videos so much :D
My favorite is watching you jump when it snaps. HAHAHA!! I'm the same though man... whenever my kids were playing with a balloon I'd just be cringing waiting for the pop. Similar when opening a tube of that dough for like, crescent rolls or something. HAHAHAHA!!!!
Will there be a mono test in the future as well
I like watching these types of videos. My question is do we know or have tested what is the actual pressure put on line/knots by a fish when fighting?
Would have liked to see the Trilene knot tested
While its good for braid - would u rec modified uni knot on fluoro? Been using improved and palomar, but looking to up new knots after some slippage - might to try this out
How many 'spins' do you use on the improved clinch knot? I use seven on braid, five on mono.
I'd like to see your results from the double line uni knot. I believe that would be the new champ.
Tyler, why not (knot?) add the SanDiego Jam? A lot of big bait fishers use this one…
Improved Clinch on braid requires double the turns you would need for normal lines. I've personally never had a Clinch, improved or not, slip like that as long as I'm doing the right number of turns. It's my go-to knot for tying a braided main to a barrel swivel ahead of a leader. Leader always breaks before the main for me.
For some reason the double SDJ is better in fluro, but the single SDJ seems better in braid. At least in my tests.
Seems like the cinch of the DSDJ gives me fits in braid.
I’d like to see it done with P-Line CXX copoly. I always use the Triline Knot or Polomar knot. Easy fast knots.
u must try Bassgangsta knot for p-line fluorocarbon line it’s insane 🍻
@@BassGangsta you can have the flouro. I’ll stick with their CXX copoly. I’ve caught 4 double digits on it and also many 20 to 40 pound flatheads and bluecat without any failures.
I hate fluorocarbon line. Copolymer is the way to go.
Considering that the rod and the action of the rod does have affect on the line and its breaking point, unless you’re fishing with a steel pole, you might get a lot more poundage considering the rod will be taking some stress off the line
Ok, so the "28.3%" got me and made me laugh. So I thought it was worth a watch and a comment. Cheers!
The Orvis knot is the strongest and one of the easiest to tie. I have used it for years with mono and it hasn't failed yet.
I done a lot knot testing on my TCD200 automated knot testing machine. The Orvis is a good knot, but around 89% line strength which is okay. It's about the same as the Springer, Davy, and even Palomar (which isn't the best knot because it can easily be tied wrong if it overlaps).
There is another easy knot called the "Spangler" knot which is around 95% line strength. The "Springer" knot is similar, but still weaker at around 88%. The double Davy knot is around 92% while the single Davy knot is 87%. The Trilene is the best on hooks at around 96% on average. However, if you tied it properly, it easily gets up to 100% and breaks at the line instead of the knot. No other knot I have tested so far consistently breaks at the line instead of the loop if tied properly. I tied so many knots, I used up 2000 yards of line and had to buy another roll.
In my opinion, the best knot is the one you tie the best and consistently. It takes a lot of force to even break a 20lb line. The main thing is to TEST your knots every time you tie it. I put it on a loop and pull hard. If it doesn't break with the amount of force I pull on it, it will stay on. You will be surprised how many times it breaks when you test it each time. I lost enough big fish to rely on the "trust but verify" method when it comes to knots. I rather have the knot break during testing and have to retie than to lose when I have fish on. You really don't stress a knot that much catching smaller fish. When you're catching 40+ lb bluefin tuna with 20lb line, you better have good knots! It took me almost 45 minutes to get it in, but they wouldn't bite any line that was stronger.
@ahndeux I think the type of line also makes a big difference in knot thrength. Different braided lines react differently to different knots. The same with mono. A very stretchy mono behaves differently than a harder, stiffer mono. I see a big difference between Trilene XL and XT for instance. It seems the XL is better using a knot with more twists. XT seems just fine with simpler knots.
@@herbb8547 Absolutely. A knot that would be great for 20lb mono may not be as good with 130lb mono. I haven't used Trilene XL or XT, so I don't know about them specifically. However, I mainly test the lines I use for my actual fishing need. The vast majority is with 20lb mono and fluoro.
There is no such thing as a perfect knot for every situation. I find the most useful knots are the ones that are easy to tie even in pitch dark and is reliable. The biggest problem I see with the Polmar knot that everyone learns to tie and is considered "strong" is that its notoriously unreliable. One wrong wrap and the line strength goes from 90 down to 60-70 at best. There are many other easier knots that can be tied and consistently get 90-95% knot strength.
What I end up is with several knots that I tie well and achieves at least 90 percent rating. Trilene is a good knot, but requires a bit of line to tie it each time. The Spangler requires very little line to tie and is good for hi-low setups where the tag ends are short.
That ring that you tied the knot is too thick
Perform these tests once again with the knots tied to a hook eye and that will be a winner 👍👍
I saw a show where JP DeRose was showing what you call the Fishin' Fool knot and he was saying he likes it specifically for braid. I've been tying it ever since but I call it a Double Round Turn Uni Knot because it's a double round turn through the eye and finished off with a Uni Knot. I tie that knot for braid and/or the Trilene knot for mono or fluoro and have never broken off at the knot with either one. Lost MANY on the Palomar. Hate the Palomar.
Improved clinch knot works good with braid, just wrap it a dozen times.
Also are you retying at the break or are you cutting off everything between the vise and the scale?
the only time I use braid is on a frog and I always use a no slip loop knot for more action ?
Fishin fool knot looks to have advantage over palomar for large baits because you don't have to put the lure through a loop. Will have to try with Fireline.
When setting a hook in a fish, your not using a steadily increasing weight to set it. The fish isn't going to just sit there either since it's in fluid. The knot will also be lubricated in the water, giving it more strength. But this a good measure of when trying to free a lure from structure.
Is the Fish and fool knot not good for Fluorocarbon?
I'd like to see that double Palomar on mono or fluorocarbon. I always tie the Palomar because it's so easy to tie and from your tests it's relatively strong. The double Palomar is interesting to me
It appears that you avoid using the double uni but frequently tie other knots in a double version. Is there something about that know that makes it not worth using or testing?
I'd like someone test the Eugene slip knot. Easy to tie and strongest knot I've used. I don't see many people reference to it.
One thing... when tying a line to a hook it is well-known that hook wire size to line diameter has a significant effect on knot strength. That big eye ring in your test set-up puts some of those knots at a disadvantage that may perform very well with a more realistically sized hook eye. The clinch knot is a perfect example. Had it been tied to a smaller eye as in say, an average-sized hook it would have undoubtedly performed better. Also with that knot, the number of wraps is critical, especially with braid which requires more. It wouldn't surprise me that some of the other knots were affected in the same way. It's probably true for your ex-favorite the Palomar too. Try the test on a hook that you would use for fishing bass for example. Though it was a good idea, this major flaw in your test makes me skeptical of the results
Hey Tyler really like the vids, I’ve always wondered if your tag end length affects knot strength
It would only affect knot strength if it was cut so short that when the knot was pulled tight from casting, snagging something or hooking/ fighting a fish that the tag end slipped through the knot and it unraveled.
Nice man thanks. I always used the palomar for braid but may be making a switch.
I am right there with ya...but I was blown away by the results
@@BassFishingHQ much simpler to use when tying on to a 8" plug with three treble hooks than a palomar and its considerably stronger.
great on mono that's why its the standard
Can you please re-test fish-fool knot with Fluor?
I'd like to see you test the Toit Knot. I've seen it tested on one other channel and it beat out every other knot in all 3 line types.
could you make a video on testing the double palomar and the fishnfool on fluoro
Forget all this fishing stuff...I need a masterclass on Excel! 😂
How many turns on that improved clinch?
You can see how quite a few people are recommending that you don't tie these knots onto such a thick ring. When the knot is tied to something so thick, you can see how the two legs of the loop are pulling outward at a steep angle, putting an "expansion" stress on the knot which can tend to cut it open from the inside out. That likely weakens some knots. But you also saw how even a very strong hook came close to failing when you were testing a snell with 50# line. Next time, for your main knots, get a sturdy snap-swivel. You can tied the line to the swivel so your knot tests match conditions in the real world, and you can attach the snap to the hook on your scale. A sturdy snap-swivel will be more than strong enough for this kind of testing.
When testing snell knots, turn turn your whole orientation around, end for end. Tie your snell knot to your hook and anchor the hook in your vice (so the hook can't straighten out and fail). Rig up any kind of "friction knot" at the other end, and if that can't be hooked directly to your scale (I can think of ways to make this attachment quite easy but I don't want to write an extra paragraph), use a length of stronger cord (light rope) to pass between the device with the friction knot and the hook on your scale. The orientation of the fishing line makes no difference, nor does its length.
By the way, in case you aren't already doing it, each test should be done using a length of line which hasn't already been part of a previous test, just in case the tension at its previous failure point did any damage, or in case that section that you grip in the vice becomes damaged (you probably already thought of this).
have you done a video on braid to fluro knot strengths?
That's next on the plate
@@BassFishingHQ AWESOME.
The percentage lost will be greater than shown, as the line's breaking strength is more than 50lbs.
Recalculate after knowing the actual breaking load to know the accurate % loss of the knots.
I use the trilene knot for braid even though it's not recommended I can't remember ever breaking at the knot ever
i never knew there was a name for the fish and fool knot, i just made it up when i saw people use the palomar, but hated wasting all that line
To sell line sell concept of a “100%” line strength knot. You WANT the knot to break well before line damage. Choose your knots, leader and line to cascade down to where you choose to break off if snagged.
I’m wondering if having such a thick cross-section on the ring is creating unusual “opening stress” on the base of each knot?
Well stated. The stress on the two legs of the loop is "pulling open" the knot, rather than leaving the knot without that kind of non-linear stress.
Uni knot all day! I’ll definitely give the last knot a try. But realistically, if you put 30+ pounds to a fish and having rod bend , line stretching and break off at the hook on a hook set, your a bad dude! Or you’re using crappy line lol.