Clickbait aside, this is a vid about why people love different things. I enjoyed making it; I want to add new things to it every day. Patreon keeps me alive! Please: www.patreon.com/PlagueOfGripes
It's a good day when you upload, i don't agree with a lot of your opinions on many things but i appreciate the way you articulate and present your views, not to mention some of your views are quite deep and thought provoking
its alive! feed the POG! personal preference and projection aside, not being able to perceive a certain atmosphere or aesthetic detail wont allow you to share the same common ground for communication. its a thing of different sensitivity, senses being stimulated in other ways. influence on someones vision falls often under the censorship of ones own perception.
On the note of "open-closed", it does have an actual name being simply "open-ended"; so good news, that's an actual standard of quality that is part of the definition of many genres as well as a type of old school open world - as you noted some of them.
I love these videos, because half the time Plague is saying things that convince me that he's a brilliant, insightful genius visionary who can grasp the heart of the world, and half the time he's saying things that convince me that he's a complete raving madman who can't possibly manage to dress himself in the morning.
Whats funny about the shield debate in regards to Elden Ring is how they went out of their way to make shields great again after all these years of the fandom moving more and more to dismiss them out of hand Just by adding the ridiculously good guard counter mechanic
Thats why I really dislike Malenia, they added an entire new mechanic to encourage proactive shield play and a bunch of talismans then Malenia just completely invalidates the item type. Its not that they're ineffective when fighting her, they are unusable due to her healing and lack of stagger on block and an active detriment for increasing your equip load. I also wish they'd make straight swords cool, they're so lame in all From's games outside of the weapon art on the unique ones, and even then its usually just some kind of spell or prayer.
@@DemonBlanka they aren’t unusable. In fact, learning her with shields is probably the most stable path to victory for someone who’s struggling. Also, you just need good damage to beat out her healing, even when blocking attacks to get guard counters. Throw parries into the mix and she’ll spend the entire encounter on her knees.
@@DemonBlankaeither you adapt your build for the fight or you hunker down and learn the fight with your chosen build, regardless of flexibility or stubbornness you need patience regardless
I fought malenia with a shield build on my first run through Elden Ring. It was tough, it was slow, each try took 5+ minutes. But I did do damage faster than she could heal, and I learned which attacks I could guard counter, which attacks I could interrupt, and which ones it was better to dodge than block. All that added up to me coming out with a slow but consistent victory against her. She has a learning curve, but almost every build needs to swap up how they fight her because she functions so differently from other bosses.
I played Elden Ring like a completionist, as you put it "mowing the lawn". In one play-through I found everything, explored every area. It gave me very little desire to replay. I WISH I could have the mentality to play less than 100%, to skip things for next time, It's such a hard thing to do in the moment, to let something go undiscovered.
The biggest issue with repeat playthroughs in Elden Ring is the number of things you need to pick up for every build just to keep up with the late game content. I'm talking flask upgrades. In the other games, there either weren't as many upgrades, or there weren't any upgrades at all; demon's souls and bloodborne had no upgrades (well in BB you can upgrade your max count but 20 is good enough for an entire playthrough), and the dark souls games only had around ~15 total items required for a max lvl flask. Elden ring requires 30 golden seeds and 12 sacred tears for a fully upgraded flask, severely hampering any repeat playthroughs by effectively requiring you to go on a scavenger hunt to collect them all. Not to mention all the other things you may want to pick up, with it all being so spread out
@@alessandrobaggi6129 yeah you can use the lock shield pretty well against martyr logarius, ebrietas, and rom. Micolash was pretty easy too with loch shield.
There's a lot of hate towards the final encounter of Demon's Souls, with people saying that the enemy is pathetic and poses no threat to the player. I am inclined to believe that those criticisms come from people that have no interest in other things about these games besides the action aspects. Besides that, the fight achieved what it tried to accomplish.
I never fell in love with the Souls games because of the combat. Yes I do enjoy it but the main aspects that draw me in are the world building and atmosphere. Like Bloodborne is just dripping in atmosphere that feels like a fever dream. It’s incredibly well designed in that aspect
This whole myth about Dark Souls 1 being a hard game because of bosses is imo very dumbfounding. Dark Souls 1 was, above all else, about exploring the world with caution and resource management. The difficulty didn´t lie in the boss fights, it lied to reach the bonfire leading up to the boss fights. If you behaved recklessly and thought you´re Dante or Kratos with your two handed sword in a narrow corridor, like in Undead Parish with the channeler and his 7 or 8 hollows who get buffed by him, you´re in for a big bad time! Not only do you get assblasted by their amped damage output, but you sure as hell have to make sure not to hit your sword against the wall, making it bounce back and staggering you for a little moment, making you very vulnerable for a brief second. The Bell Gargoyles feel like a vacation in comparison to the hollows chaotic movements. The boss fights more often than not, were basically the victory lap of your conquest of each area AND NOT THE MAIN SPECTACTLE, imo.
It's sad how it got twisted. Now the bosses and environments are spectacle without good gameplay. And ER I think was designed intentionally for you to scratch your way to victory, you're not meant to beat it with skill but with rpg elements, cheese, and anything you can do or use or think of to get buy. And the only way to achieve this was to make things ridiculously unfair. That's literally what Miyazaki's interviews at DLC release were saying how he had to, and likes to, play the game. He made a game around trading hits because he likes it.
@@vradrax I'm starting to feel like the critique channels that do From Software stuff, but not Armored Core, almost always have pretty terrible takes on what they feel is souls losing it's identity or whatever. They clearly evolve their artform, and constantly iterate their ideas, between games even; It just feels so odd to leave it out, when it's incredibly relevant to where From Software is going.
This is just DS1 fanboy syndrome, that game is great but people gotta stop acting like it's the Bible of souls games when it wasn't even the first of its kind and is largely the exception to the rest of the series in nearly every aspect (limited fast travel, connected world, etc). If From wanted to keep making the same game over and over again they'd be making Dark Souls 2024, 25, 26, not Shadow of the Erdtree over two years after the original game.
He was but he was under strict restrictions with a partner overseeing him and making the big choices because it was From's cash cow at the time. Like a director apprenticeship which can arguably be considered training rather then directing. Miyazaki went for Demon's souls because the company would allow him to direct solo and have the freedom to express his creative style. Technically not his first directorship but it effectively was, hense why most people don't count it.
@@kittenpuke8918 I don't think that's what the sentiment is getting at. In order to make something that is both good and true to yourself, you probably are gonna run into challenges over the course of creation. This requires being able to recognize what qualities you value for the thing you're making, recognize your mistakes, and be able to problem solve what needs to be done to fix the problem. I don't know how one would be able to separate problem solving (and by extension, learning) from the creative process.
@@kittenpuke8918 It can be a decisive number of things and evidences - the genre your craft is under, as there's definitly sometimes a blueprint to follow to set an actual quality to your craft; in that it can be your very own establishement and your past success and failures, the polish, the execution and so on; all of this gradually changes your craft or the way you go around it, sometimes it also makes you go off the path and catch lightning in a bottle, or simply figuring out something new... ect. The reception of the audiance, being the actual subjective part of art, will probably influence you as well, but not as much as your *practice* has ( since the reception of the audiance can very much as well take you to the wrong path and give you the wrong ideas; hence why appeal to popularity and outhority results in a fundamental and even at times existencial fallacy). Your practice will be the learning curve, your study, your experimentation, what shapes you and your craft. If you're following your curve, you're learning as you craft. 'Works beyond drawing and writing; it's just how art actually is.
In this hardcore bods centric direction. They can still roll back to when braving the game world was the real focus and bosses were simple roadblocks you had to find your way around.
@@kodymcbride6901 I certainly damn well hope so in the case of the final boss of the DLC. I don't think they can push the difficulty any more than that (the "aggressive, roll-dodge constant AOE and attacking" Souls boss difficulty I mean, that they've been pushing and pushing further with every new release since Artorias of the Abyss) without the games turning into a complete farce. That boss is actually pretty much farce. It's like a parody of a difficult Souls boss, Glaive Master Hodir given life and taken seriously. Different forms of challenge now please, or just stop trying to appease the moron git gud crowd. Maybe working with a publisher besides Bandaid-Numbnuts would be good for them.
@@kindlingking Nah... Be like real life. Make every NPC and Boss just as difficult. Let's not repeat DS2 where the run back to both Smelter Demons was horrible. On top of Blue Smelter with his botched hit boxes.
@@jahrfuhlnehmThe irony of the final boss is that his difficulty is mostly a question of playstyle. "Oh, you like to play by dodging around and jump attacking because that's optimal 99% of the time? DENIED", "Oh, you like to parry? Here, have this freebie" Because his attacks are relatively slow for an Elden Ring boss and can be parried making that playstyle a cake walk against him but the usual playstyle a nightmare. Really made me consider Plagues' point about upgrading weapon classes instead of the weapons themselves
@@jahrfuhlnehm they don't need to push the difficulty, they just need to evolve the combat and design bosses accordingly, like removing i-frames and making things more position/animation/hitbox dependent or putting more emphasis on spell casting.
i wish they embraced their dungeon crawler roots and had more of a focus on horror and resource management. my fav moments of demons and dark 1 was the unpredictability of exploring levels and seeing these horrifying monsters
Definitely something I don't think about often but is definitely present in a lot of the games. There's something to be said about how it gets undercut as a tone, and I'm not sure what it is.
@@PlagueOfGripes i think the gradual overemphasis of action and boss fights hurt it a lot, plus the abundance of checkpoints killing the tension of exploring. When i play I'm always thinking too much about the challeng, mechanics, and the next boss fight, and it's hard to get immersed when you're thinking about it in that meta way. It's a real shame with elden ring because it does have amazing monster design.
@@Boots43096I kinda have it the opposite. Even though the game alot of checkpoints. I mostly use them for "savepoints" when exploring rather than teleports.
As much as I like plague rants, the shield one is odd. Bloodborne's shield description is obviously self referential to the game it's in, and not a commentary on shields as a whole throughout the series. It's a wry, in universe joke that 'yeah you need to be fast and _lethal_ to deal with the threats in this dream'. If From throught that shields were big pussy mode they just... wouldn't add them in subsequent games? Or make them horribly bad, which they absolutely are not. Ninja flips are a product of poor balancing more then anything else, as darksouls 1 is riddled with the stuff. Shoutout to the current best way to deal with the Elden Ring dlc's bosses (especially the final one) being to turtle up behind a greatshield and poke away with a rot/bleed rapier or other weapon from behind the safety of your big wall. Of course, fromsoft fans being fromsoft fans are now happily roaming the streets telling people that if you beat the boss like this, you didn't do it 'the right way' or other terms to essentially mean 'I did it but better'. Unrelated but it's also entirely possible to suit up in heavy armor with a greatshield and beat down ds3's bosses in messy, hit trading slugouts where you don't dodge a single time. I'd know, it's my favorite build in that game.
@@Icebrick2 Carian Thrusting shield, two-handing it, buffed with scholar's armament ( was an int char, but trying to cast anything vs Consort Radahn was too much of a pain) , the appropriate talismans & the key ingredient - the new hard deflect tear - was how I faced & beat Radahn throughout my 36 attempts a few days ago. It was even incredibly satisfying getting those perfect guards to both DENY his obnoxious combo chains while ALSO turning his aggression against him via those boosted guard counters. Like seeing someone want to punch you, get their punch deflected right back in their face, ending up punching themselves almost 2x as hard. Like, there's a lot of shield & defensive strats love in Elden Ring, even more so in the expansion. Even w/o shields, some of the most dominant ways I've seen ppl deal with him, were by stacking up defenses to incredibly high degree, that they were just facetanking him & making lifesteal builds more viable than ever - ofc, this works under certain conditions only, but anyone who wants to do something like that should be aware of them. Stuff like using Holy ground, Ironjar aromatics and/or Endure, Malenia's great rune, prayful strike, or a few other variants. I still don't like the overtunned boss design, yet I do like what it resulted in: an embrace of more defensive/counter-dmg strats due to the offensiveness of the boss being dialed up so hard that trying to just avoid via dodge-rolls has become borderline unbearable for most ppl. Even top players like LetMeSoloHer got clapped a shit ton of times by Radahn until he learned him, andw as using a shield & the heaviest armor he had to help learning him, even mimic tear for a few times, and even now as he's learned him, every once in a while when he helps ppl on stream with him, he still fumbles & gets insta-deleted. For a more casual player like Asmongold, who played the whole base game interacting only the bare mimimum with it's mechanics (don't think he used a single craftable consumable in the whole game) , and jump-power stanced attack + rolled to victory, he was forced to embrace guard counters & fine tune his stats & talismans a bit. This isn't to say I enjoy a player being tunneled to a few particular strats, but I do enjoy when we're pushed to interact with more mechanics so that's a key diff to keep in mind.
I'm not sure where you heard that Miyazaki doesn't play his own games, but here's what he said in a Guardian interview when Shadow of the Erdtree released: "In preparation for Shadow of the Erdtree, I played through the main story of Elden Ring. I want to preface this by saying I absolutely suck at video games, so my approach or play style was to use everything I have at my disposal, all the assistance, every scrap of aid that the game offers, and also all the knowledge that I have as the architect of the game"
I'm pretty sure he said this less because Moyazaki himself said he rarely plays his own games, and more about how players will constantly go around saying "if you use literally anything besides your one weapon, you're not playing Dark Souls right," because... there are people that actually still unironically do that in 2024.
I am content with Elden Ring. It is not where I wanted the series to go, but I will take a creative vision I don’t agree with over sandblasted mass appeal any day of the week.
You know you don't have to settle for either, right? There's a whole indie and double A scene to explore where better creative visions are being explored.
@@plaidchuck I hoped it would go lots of places. I wanted to see how far they could push the ludo narrative synergy, for example. You giving up on a character being represented by hollowing in game was interesting. The asynchronous multiplayer representing the interaction with the Souls community at large. Entering into covenant that visually expressed your intention to other players, without being able to speak with them. Other things: fleshing out under baked mechanics, creating more diverse methods of combat, clear visual communication (enemy animations having clear physicality and inertia) and basically leaning more on a casual Monster Hunter design for bosses. Basically, take the same principles of restraint that were probably system limitations and apply that to diversified approaches to solving problems.
@@nono9543I get where he's coming from, but yeah that kind of sounded like the ramblings of a guy who has to much time to spend inside his mind so to speak.
My big gripe is he says "Miyazaki admitted he isn't good enough to beat his own games" when in the interview Miyazaki ACTUALLY says "I played through Elden Ring, I suck at games so I use every assistance and aid in the game and even my knowledge as a developer." Plague ends up flanderizing Miyazaki right before claiming that Fromsoft flanderized itself.
I tried to "mow the lawn" with ER during my first time through, and by the middle I was just burned out entirely. Ignored all late game optional content, just rushed to the default ending because I had become so sick of it.
55:05 fromsoft quest design barely even qualifies as quest design. Its practically just finding a person shaped item that says cryptic shit and then you gotta guess where the next location of that item is until it stops moving and gives you something. There is absolutely no reason for Elden Ring at least to not have a quest journal, outside of me keeping one in real life. 🤣
It's nice when they describe what they're up to, what they want and you can guess where it's going to be. Has a bit of that Morrowind issue of needing to find the correctly shaped rock on a road somewhere to know where to go, in a sense. I understand not wanting markers, but I also firmly believe you shouldn't be able to mess up NPC quest lines without making a decision to do so, in some way. Just walking too close to another area and the game force-loading a new sequence feels unacceptable to me.
DeS quest lines almost feel like an after thought or like you're meant to slowly figure them out over multiple playthroughs thanks to some being tied to world tendency, just a mess. Then they kinda had some ok ones in DS1, like laurentius or luatrec doing their own thing regardless of you and just happen to overlap but then also had BHL and reah questlines locking you out of getting spells if done wrong and the nightmare of trying to do Seigmeyers right. I'm really glad they didn't further develop any ideas for NPC interactions or quest lines and even tied some to just emptying out their inventory.
Lol from doesnt know how to develop characters either, having us come across an npc that say’s two lines of dialogue then we find him dead later isn’t character development 😂😂
@@_CrimsonBladealso "Hey this guy can help me beat a boss" *find him dead 30 minutes later" *reads vague unclear lore after picking up his armor or weapon*
I listened to this while playing Elden Ring and had a great time doing both. I enjoy hearing the reasons why people don't like the game. Especially when they are well thought out critiques and not just "Bad game, L Game, Zzz". But, let's get all this gameplay garbage out of the way and talk about what really matters Furries. Plague, did you like the cute snake girl in Volcano Manor? Do you have any input on the bats?? Would you date a Rune Bear if they were a 7 foot muscle mommy??? PLAGUE.
@@StainlessPotquite the opposite, the guy is very lucid and has a lot of well and longly thought opinions and arguments, I feel that a lot of of people just want to fight his opinions because they criticize things they like
@@JoaoSchoen He says you need to comb through ER in a grid, when the game has roads, landmarks, signposts... If you go "by grid" you would just be picking up a lot of plants. Out of all the open worlds out there, ER does the most to fix this genre problem, because all the locations are bespoke and layed out with purpose. He claims just going where you feel like would have a new player discover only 10% of the content, when that's just completely impossible because the difficulty frequently roadblocks you, encouraging you to look for more resources and places to go. This opinion could only make sense if you have OCD or something
@@StainlessPot I explored what I thought was all of Limgrave and after giving up on the storm castle I decided to just roam around and find more sites of grace, and after exploring half the scarlet rot area and the city that's half destroyed on the water around the magic academy or something I looked up the interactive map and I hadn't gotten half the items in limgrave And Elden Ring is a lot of grind, in Dark Souls getting some new armor and upgrading it made me feel way better defended, with Elden Ring I felt I was made of toilet paper until I got some 20 levels in vigor, and then I went to the scarlet rot area and then I felt like wrt toilet paper again I disagree that Elden Ring fixed much from open world games, while it feels way better then Zelda BOTW just by the mobility options it gives you that makes going from place to place in a big world more palatable there is still a lot of padding that can only be solved by grinding because enemies give way too little runes for you to be able to get stronger by going through all areas just once
In some sort of weird confirmation of your core point, I don't know how you got "use the right tool for the job" when I got "commit to your build." like a lot of my enjoyment of dark souls is playing the game over and over again with different kits, finding out which enemies and bosses I have stronger or weaker answers for especially since you can struggle through with literally anything too, and seeing how my route through the game changes as I need different tools to get my build online.
I completely agree. What you mentioned is the main reason I like to replay these games so much. My favorite thing about Elden Ring's open world is how the game encourages and enables me to go to different places, in different orders, for different reasons depending on what my build wants.
@@carlschrappen9712 yeah its not like you can just switch weapons especially in ds1 without using the parry glitch to consume infinite souls and even then, where you gonna get all those slabs so you have to focus on a build.
I think he's off his meds. He says DS1 is the most flexible one (it's not, ER is, obviously), then complains about how restrictive it is. Bipolar ah farmboy
The "use a different tool" argument for Dark Souls 1 does apply if you use a more normal weapon route (first playthtough, for example... otherwise it's moreso just an option to abuse the weaknesses of certain areas). If you use some of the more OP weapons, like any of the Black Knight Weapons, then obviously you don't need to change tools because it can just muscle through everything. Using a singular kit obviously starts to apply more and more as you do challenge runs, as that's the whole point of a challenge run.
Essay ahead: I think the tricky thing with these games is that people come into it at different points, and that can drastically affect what they view as the “heart” of the series. People who started with DS1 often rave about the interconnected world design, people who started with BB tend to fall in love with the world design and faster pace, aggression reinforced with the rally system, people who started with Elden Ring often are coming in with experience of previous open world games rather than souls likes, and so the merging of the two, with the vast scope paired with actually engaging combat and solid enemy variety can be a pretty incredible thing to experience for the first time. The issue with this, is that if you fall in love with the first one you played, the other games will likely not do much to surpass the aspects of it that hooked you. If you played sekiro first, and loved it, you fell in love with what was primarily an action game, and may find the build variety of a traditional souls game overwhelming, and the combat somewhat bland in comparison. The combat issues are the biggest divide, as if a player came in at any point from Bloodborne onward, they will potentially find the combat of the older titles to be way too slow, and the inverse is true as well. If you started with demon’s or dark souls, the Bloodborne/DS3/Sekiro/Elden Ring combat might just not click for you. For sekiro and Bloodborne in particular, It’s faster, it rewards pattern memorization and reaction time far more than preparation done outside of encounters, which is a bit easier to rely on in the mainline souls series. I feel very lucky that I started with dark souls 3, as I feel it sits directly in the middle of the two extremes in a lot of ways, which allowed me to enjoy going back to older titles, and moving forward to the newer ones. I went DS3, Bloodborne, started Sekiro, started DS1, started Elden Ring, didn’t play any for a while, then went back after a friend had me try lies of P, completed Sekiro, completed Elden Ring twice l, played through demons souls, and then did Bloodborne’s DLC, and now have started Elden Rings DLC and am finishing up DS1. Everyone who recommended these games to me was a dodge roll light attack spammer, and so that’s how I learned to approach these titles. DS3 has really solid bosses that are clearly designed around this approach, and so it hooked me pretty much immediately. This “dodge and hit” approach made the transition to Bloodborne pretty much lateral, as I wasn’t used to using shields/magic, so they didn’t feel like things that were lost. However, for a player who started in DS1, or demons souls, and used those play styles, I understand that it could be frustrating. Sekiro was a pretty steep learning curve, but once the rhythm becomes something you get a hold of, it’s very satisfying. Elden Ring kicked my ass because I never really learned how to COMMIT to a build in previous games, but once I went back to it, played once as a dex/arcane build going for bleed procs, and once as a pure strength going for stance breaks; I found it to be mostly great. Waterfowl is the only move in the base game that I couldn’t reliably entirely dodge with just medium roll, as I used bloodhound for my first fight, but going for stance break on my most recent play through I beat her in around 10 tries at level 150. I liked demons souls; and am enjoying DS1, but I have to recognize that despite me respective the world layout and level design and atmosphere and all that stuff, I never feel nearly as engaged by the combat. I’m sure I would love them more if I played them first, and I do like them and consider them well made games, but blah blah blah point is, you’re almost always gonna like the ones you play first more. That doesn’t make the other ones bad. The team at from soft knows what they’re doing, and I feel like they’re still doing it very well. Elden ring late game is kinda rough though
I've grown to appreciate something about the games in their library, clearly with some that stand out in my eye over others. Bloodborne and Sekiro are beloved to me for the experience, and Dark Souls 1 is always a blast to go back through. I've always wondered about the narrative that Fromsoft is losing what made their games standout or what hooked players, if only because each game seems to have a completely different design philosophy and seems to be a practice in Fromsoft trying something different every time. (And yeah the last stretch of elden ring I do think is a bit of a bog, but I'm fine with it given the experience that preceded it was so fun)
@@StevenPlesz truth be told DS2 is the one that I’ve played the least. It was technically the first one I tried, and I got frustrated playing it at a friends house and never picked it up, trying DS3 years later. I don’t have super strong opinions about it, so I kinda left it out of discussion. I do wanna play it when Inter the chance though!I
this has got to be one of the greatest takes i’ve heard about the soulsborne series. i’d like to share my experience with the games as well. even though i started with bloodborne, i enjoyed the interconnected world design of DS1 more, and strangely enough i was drawn to the sluggishness of the player’s movement and combat. everything in this game revolved heavily around the idea of commitment. warping to bonfires isn’t an automatic right given to the player at the start of the game, but instead it’s something that needs to be earned unlike the other soulsborne titles: this placed so much more weight on journeys since you had to fully commit to going to certain destinations, such as blighttown. once you rest at a bonfire in blighttown, you had to make the journey back up again; teleportation isn’t an option. judging the combat and movement from the surface, it’s easy to dismiss it as stiff and awkward, but i actually think that works in favor of the game and fits the theme of commitment quite well. instead of placing an emphasis on timing attacks, the stiff movement incentivized you to be smart about your positioning whenever you’re fighting against enemies. the combat was more about being methodical then it was memorizing an enemy’s 100-combo attack string
I started with Elden ring, and think honestly that Dark Souls is far superior. It's perhaps a bit slow, yes-- but the movement is slower. And the enviroments feel far more specifically tailored to the gameplay, and thus much better to explore. It's like an entire game of the best parts of Elden Ring. The only thing I miss are stakes of Marika to return straight to the boss-fight. Some of the boss-runups were hell in DS1.
I think Micolash is fun as a concept/atmospheric fight, I've never hated him truly. Witch same deal, it's a fun concept for a boss fight, and I'll always enjoy the very interesting, outside of the box boss battles that show up in these games. The whole nightmare of Mensis and lead in to Micolash is such a cool build up and helps to really sell the nightmare aspect of Bloodborne. That being said, I love all of Bloodborne, so that's me lol
Bloodborne is not insulting the player with how it describes shields, it's describing the playstyle that they wanted the game to move away from and it does a pretty good job rewarding the player's aggression in turn. The rally system works. It's pretty forward thinking.
Its wild that the content creator that helped me fall so in love with the Souls like genre back when i was a brat now has feelings so far apart from my own with the current state of the series. Guess thats part of growing up
He helped me get into Dark Souls all those years ago too, but his feelings are exactly like mine now. Elden Ring is not Dark Souls, and there will never be another Dark Souls.
50:09 you're taking the BB shield's description too seriously. More than anything it's meant to be a hint to new players that BB's combat is designed around aggression.
@@vandagylon2885 Many reasons. Fromsoft likes to add goofy Easter eggs in their games, shield included. It's a fun callback to their previous games. They also like to avoid intrusive tutorial popups, so giving players a shield right at the start of the game (you can find it just after the central ward lantern) that's obviously rickety and no good is a fun in-universe way to teach players that shields aren't a fundamental part of bloodborne's combat system, especially when paired with it's description. As for the magic shield, it's situational but it can be legitimately useful.
@@Fentiman no, I don't think I do.... well. Anyway. I get where plague is coming from, but also, where the designers are coming from. But ultimately, I still agree with plague on the matter.
I've long since accepted that the Soulsborne Franchise has moved past me My stance on what I like about DS1 is similar to Matthewmatosis; I enjoy the atmosphere, the interconnected world, the Design of the enviornments, the slow intensity of encounters, the harsh but fair moments that ask for you to keep calm, the music and just the... quiet bleakness of it all My favourite moment in Elden Ring wasnt one of the bosses, or any of the combat encounters. It was when I walked up to a castle on a coast, its walls filled with the hanging corpses of its former defenders and felt myself teleported to a world straight out of Berserk. My second favourite was undoubtedly the moment I took a seemingly innocous elevator down... only to be greeted by what looked like a field of stars But, despite everything, Elden Ring made it clear that these qualities, while present, weren't the main focus. It was the Bosses, the scripted encounters, the need for perfection through repetition. Elden Ring wasnt for me, so I moved on and thats okay. I doubt I'll ever see it a this "perfect" gem, as this supposedly 11/10 game. I'll hold unto the few good moments I had with it and leave it to the people it was evidently made for
Not trying to convince you to buy it but the elden ring DLC had more of those moments for me than the whole basegame. There are actually some areas that are allowed to breathe. Coincidentally those are the areas most complained about online for being "too empty for a fighting game." The map is smaller, more vertical, and less filled with mini dungeons. All in all a much better experience than the basegame for me, someone that loves exploration most.
I found myself exhausting the game to get to find items that helped the build I liked, but every time I started to credit the game, it would do some ridiculous rugpull that made me regret giving it more of a chance. I'm the first of my friends who beat elden ring, and I have the lowest opinion of it by a long shot. towards the end of the game, I felt myself playing in order to make the game shut up, that's how I was thinking of it in my head. just ramming my fist up every mechanic in order to make the game stop doing nonsense. the environmental and art design is just so incredible that the jank and obtuseness does not seem justified. it was a gameplay experience of accumulating cynicism punctuated by moments of absolute wonder and awe. I became mistrustful of the game itself, of its weird hitboxes and timings and misleading stat #s and health bars and its dumb gotcha moments dozens of hours into the game. but the game did allow me to clench onto every stupid power combination available to swirly and humiliate the dumb a.i. I dont remember this cynicism in DS1. I never felt like I was slicing my way through everything to get DS1 over with, the process and adventure was sort of its own reward. DS1 had these lock and key chains of causation, but elden ring is this decentralized sprawl of "content" that doesn't tend to interconnect meaningfully. I was so disappointed by elden ring, by how I beat it, by how it made me question the whole concept of games in general.
If I want a fun RPG game, I'd play an actual RPG. If I want to play an action game, I'd play DMC. Elden Ring focus on/being praised for its combat is moronic at best.
I feel it's instructive to point out that when Miyazaki himself played a game like Elden Ring, he used every scrap of foreknowledge and aspect of aid inside the game (spirits, ashes, etc.) to cheese the game as hard as possible. There's always been significant cheese in basically every game they've made (with Sekiro being something of an exception, since your items/moveset are relatively stripped down/focused compared to the breadth of weapons and options in Souls games). The git gud mentality didn't really make sense in 2011 and doesn't make sense in 2024 with Elden Ring. The games have literally always been relatively easy if you have an eye towards exploration, both in terms of build style and actual level exploration. It's really not that hard to extrapolate some of the design philosophy from what's in the game. Dunno where anyone in their right mind got the idea that a game series full of underhanded strategies, invisible walls, esoteric sidequests, extravagant level design, an absolutely nonsensical amount of swamps and freaking Sen's Fortress was in any way "just about the boss fights and combat".
"Git gud" has morphed over the years, it was originally not a message about a "proper way to play" it was about people who complained instead of adapting to the game (most of the time reviewers/journalists). The way people view the phrase and bastardise it these days is really frustrating and the worst part is that some people seriously believe in that bastardised mentality. Do you think a community would praise Solaire and the Sunbros so much if they all thought that summoning wasn't the TRUE way to play and made you a little baby bitch? The souls community is so much shittier these days.
@@DemonBlanka I'm aware -- my frustration with the phrase and the mindset is that I know people who've taken it seriously since Dark Souls 1's whole "Prepare To Die" marketing schtick. Like, you and I see to be coming from the precise same place. I'm just pointing out that literally no part of reality agrees with the people who take the mindset seriously, so I'm not sure where these people keep coming from.
I don't summon generally. Not out of some weird arbitrary bullshit the community sometimes perpetuates. I just like the solitude. The freedom to say, Ooo, what's that? And not get wrangled away from my curiosity by people just wanting to go kill the boss
That's part of why my brother never finished Elden ring and part of why I burned out. A good chunk of Elden ring is technically copy/paste, which is exhausting for completionists like me, who feel like we have to collect all the goodies and kill all the bosses each playthrough even if 80% of the game can be skipped. For him he wants to be able to co-op because it's more fun to explore with a buddy since the world is so big. However the zones are deceptively small and require lots of resummoning and the the constant flownof invaders make it go from "Let's take it slow and explore" to "Hurry up and make it to the boss, explore separately, and you can deal with that field boss on your own". Wish we had that seemless co-op mod for console
I just don't summon in Elden Ring because I feel it makes the later Bosses Harder compared to just using a Spirit. The Bosses getting a lot more health because you summoned a player or NPC means a lot more compared to the older games with the sort of damage they put out now.
The influences of GRRM’s thousand worlds series on Elden Ring are not to be ignored. I love berserk too but miquella is actually a reference to Bakkalon, one of the dark multiversal gods of the thousand worlds setting. Not only hat but the Glass Flower is literally just a scifi version of the founding of Raya Lucaria
Got a little too mad there about the Bloodborne shield description somehow being indicative of Fromsoft's disdain for shields, when shields are the easiest way to deal with the hardest boss in any Souls game (Promised Consort Radahn). Not that I used them myself, but dodging is obviously harder in that fight vs. blocking with fingerprint shield and poking with antspur rapier - so do they really hate shields?
Bloodborne's shield is not representative of a deep seated hatred miyazacki had for a play style that uses a shield in previous or future games games, if it was then they wouldn't keep shields around. It's supposed to a direct way of saying, "this game is all about aggression, it is different from dark souls"
I wonder how much of that is really on the translation of the item, too. for instance, in the original Japanese item text, it seems to be far more neutral in its description, claiming "the shield is good, but don't be overconfident". besides, Bloodborne in general also has gun parries as a stronger focus, it's not JUST roll-spam
@@KumoKumiko Yeah, I've been playing BB after having played DeS, DS1, 2 , 3, Sekiro, AC6, ER and the thing that really sticks out is the gun parries in contrast to its fast dodge-heavy reputation. Most fights in the world you just outspace regular enemy combos and gun parry elite mobs, it's pretty fun.
okay even as someone who vastly prefers games like Elden Ring over Dark Sous 1, claiming the Dark Souls 1 failed at being the kind of game that it is based on what later entries in the series did is a special kind of stupid lol
True... It's illogical to say DS1 wasn't DS3 because... Well... DS1 was made first. Elden Ring isn't perfect. There's the highest potential I see in its systems but none has yet to truly reach it.
He spent a lot of time talking about people's mindsets about these games and his main point surrounded the fact that what makes a game better is subjective, while also acknowledging that, if not a majority, a loud section of the Souls-Community points to 3 as refining the formula set by the first game, so when they return to, or play for the first time, the first game they assume the game's motives, assume it isn't as developed - all based upon what they think the successes of 3 are. If he keeps talking with this language from that point he made to expand on the greater argument; that doesn't mean he buys into that mindset. He was building to a point; not subscribing to a belief. He literally admitted to not liking 3 and loving the first game. He clearly doesn't believe what you think he said.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 It hurts that ER has a lot of potential with it's movement and crafting and finally having an ok magic system etc. But based off history, the next thing will be different enough but still not address the nightmare that is split damage negation, use a decent quick inventory system like MH:World or have element types that don't just fill up a bar or deal split damage and use a scaling system that doesn't lie to you.
Das3 and ER made me realise that I never liked dark souls because of the combat, I liked it because of the atmosphere and world design. DaS3 and ER feel like they were games made by someone that just knew about dark souls from memes
This is a painful realization I've had to go through...more often than not. The creator(s) of things I love, did not like those things for the same reasons I did. It's happened with plenty of video game series, books, movies, youtube channels, etc... It always sucks. Especially since, when they change the parts I like to emphasize the parts they like, they often don't end up with what they like either.
Miyazaki: I play my own games in my own way, taking any small advantage I can get because that's how I want to play. Plague: Yeah I am just gonna completely ignore what you just said and talk with confidence about how you don't play your own games.
Also, he did not choose to work on DS3, he was assigned to the project before becoming company president. Immediately after becoming president, he chose to end the series with DS3.
I do have to wonder a bit here after seeing so many essays on Souls... Why do the video essayists harp so much on people who do have the time, put in the time, or just have some talent at beating stuff like Sekiro or other From games? Like I get the idea of liking a nice and slow methodical playstyle but whinging about "tryhards" to make your point about how the current from games suck feels like a lame duck. I felt this way watching Noah Cadwell's Sekiro video and heck, its the same sort of energy here. As much as I hate the gitgud argument ad nauseam, I don't know if it's really fair to rag on the people who well, actually got good and adapted with the times and write them off as turbo coffee jockey tryhards or whatever while making the point about the good ol slow days. That's my impression with this vid anyways. As for Miyazaki, the guy directed AC4, one of the faster playing Armored Cores so the seed for faster nutty gameplay was always there somewhere and I guess it sprouted post bloodborne.
People get their egos hurt playing souls games and think they just need to find the right words to explain why it's the some fundamental issue with the games design and fanbase. Other people either have fun or stop playing but there's a correlation between folks who feel the need to explain themselves and people who make video essays
@@TizerakYT This has gotta be it tbh, especially with him randomly making the passive aggressive comment to challenge runners at 28:23 , "if you want to throw on a grain ring, strip naked and fight artorias with a broken straight sword to show off how big your video game pp is to your absent father you can" Well...I imagine most people who do runs like that just enjoy challenging themselves, I personally only took the time to learn how to beat Gael without getting hit just because I thought the fight was really fun (plus that theme's a banger) frankly it comes across like he's salty that he doesn't have the skills or knowledge to do it aseell.
Until AC6 it was the first time they made a proper action game without all of the counterproductive carry-over design elements of Souls muddling things. I used to compare it unfavorably to Souls because I just thought of it as another Bloodborne-like, but Sekiro does its own thing and mechanically it does it with so much more polish and intent than anything they did between DeS and Elden Ring. I think From's output would've been more interesting if they had built more of their systems from scratch around a game-specific concept like that. The basic format they keep repurposing from Demon's Souls handicaps them every time they want to make the games more action-focused.
@@thegodofsoapkekcario1970I thought this for a while but with a couple of playthroughs under my belt I think it's the perfect length. If anything I think it's a little long - all the filler boss fights and dead end areas clog up what essentially could have been a perfect "boss rush" game, kind of like how people go through the DMC games in less than 6 hours.
@@sekiro_the_one-armed_wolf I'm using Bloodborne-like derogatorily to refer to From's shift towards fast-paced action games in Souls. DS3-like would work too. At the time I just expected Sekiro to be another variation of those games.
think when from software realized that people saw the series as the "Prepare to Die" game, is when they started to focus on the wrong aspects of what made the games great and it slowly lost its appeal (at least to me).
Right, that’s a pretty wise observation to note. I think that they really lost a sense for the Level Design being the focus, as well as perhaps even the lore & Narrative Harmony, or the Gameplay & Narrative complimenting one another as much. I really wanted them to either build on the world or explore entirely separate parts of it, or even be like FF and leave Lordran alone perhaps, just make a new World with similar yet different Themes and Subjects.
@@Nyadnar feel like most people who say elden ring isnt difficult, simply watched a guide on what kind of broken build they should use to beat the game. which kinda feels like saying "this puzzle game isnt hard, you can just look up the anwsers online". at some point elden ring achievments showed that more people got the secret (almost impossible to figure out without a guide) ranni ending, then the normal default ending. which tells me that most of the people who actually beat elden rinh used a guide/walktrough, and anyone who didnt simply stopped playing before reaching the end.
@@NyadnarYes and no. Generally the player power ceiling is much higher, and a lot of Elden Ring's challenge is loaded onto bosses and not world navigation. None of the dungeons are hard to explore and Torrent can bail you out of bad situations. Most enemies are a joke compared to the ones in Dark Souls being more threatening. On the other hand, the bosses are by far and away the most challenging fights in the franchise. Their individual movesets contain a lot of extremely powerful and difficult to dodge moves. They have huge health pools, aggressive tracking, lots of roll catching, and feints. Looking at the chapter titles, I think this is what Eli is going to be getting at. Elden Ring loads all of its difficulty onto the bosses where Dark Souls divided it into the levels and bosses equally. FromSoft got aware of their reputation as "the 100000 tries boss guys" and it has influenced their level design and boss decisions.
The analogy of not knowing the lyrics to a song and it taking a whole new meaning that is lost when you go and find the actual lyrics hits such a spot in my heart.
Super glad you brought up the idea of waiting for "Your Turn." It's my biggest issue with a lot of "hard" games is that you're so rarely given the ability to be proactive in fights. You're forced to react to everything the enemy does or eat shit and die. The only alternative is to seemingly achieve such game mastery that you're using speedrun strats to fast kill the boss and I'm just not going to bother with that when I want a more casual experience.
Your skill decides when it's your turn. The best players literally punish in between long chain combos on all of ER's hardest bosses. It's one of the best ways ER does skill expression... a bad player will struggle to get in good punishes, but get familiar with the moveset and you can be very proactive.
If you haven't already you should play Nioh. Every enemy including bosses have their own visible stamina bar so you know exactly when to get aggressive and when to focus on wearing them down. It's a big improvement over dodging three times only to get hit by a fourth swing because Fromsoft arbitrarily decided that's how long the combo string should be.
Well it's the fundamental quandry that many hard games end up in, unfortunately. I remember a couple of years before Demon's Souls seemingly the loudest out there were bemoaning the (at the time) recent Zelda titles for more or less enforcing one way to approach fights/bosses (even when that wasn't really true) just because it was "too easy" so "why do anything else but the optimal strategy". And really I think the same critique can be leveled at "hard" games as you mention. In fact, I think it's actually more true for harder games typically than for easier ones, because the defining feature you run into with high difficulty is restrictions. In order to make things harder, at some point you end up introducing harsh restrictions to the player or absolutely ridiculous buffs to enemies (in more ways than just raw stats, too... talking tracking, hitbox size, combo length, etc.). And all of that necessarily leads to more restricted design, where player options (even when they on paper, visually look different) mechanically are almost identical. Because you really don't have any other way to evade/avoid certain attacks than the one pre-defined way. You don't have any other option but to do 6 evades on this or that combo before you can do anything else. And even then, you have that cool looking 5 hit combo on your sword that you can't even use, because the boss literally doesn't allow an opening to use it. What makes it so bad, as I'm alluding to here, is just that you have no leeway, unlike an "easy" game. So in a way... you actually just have more good/valuable choices in games traditionally viewed as "easier" (by the vocal minority) than harder ones, because the game isn't inherently blocking you out of doing them mechanically. None of this is to say you can't still break things with enemies that have too little health (for example). The player can't effectively pull off a 6 hit combo if everything dies in 2 hits, after all. But, it's to say that mechanically (not necessarily always statistically) if everything is designed to catch the player out, and basically lock them in unless they "perform the one way to do things"... you're inherently going to have more restricted design than if it were "easier" by not inherently requiring most of that. But that's the kind of discussion that's, unfortunately, gotten cast out because it'd require more thought and insight and god forbid might be more interesting than calling other people whiners for daring to get tired of having only a handful of REAL mechanical options available for play.
@@hurrdurrmurrgurr I have played Nioh and Nioh 2. It's funny because I wasn't enjoying myself when I tried playing them like a Souls game and then did a complete 180 when I switched to a different weaponset and embraced magic because those things enabled me to play way more actively as opposed to just reacting to whatever the enemy was doing. Those are good games! @desmondbrown5508 gets it and I think they nailed it on the point where the design for player abilities (and restrictions/limitations) need to mesh with enemy and encounter design or you end up with a pretty bad gaming experience. Ultimately, I think it gets boils down to managing player expectations. It is completely reasonable to pick up a cool sword with a cool ability and expect to be able to use it. But if the game effectively punishes you for investing into what's actually a trap option then that doesn't feel good.
I think Bloodborne ruined the way the devs looked at their games, in a way. Before it, the games were slow paced and you had to be very careful, but Bloodborne allowed you to play a lot more aggressively, as you said, and it rewarded that style of play. Then, after Bloodborne, you have DS3 and Elden Ring trying to replicate the playstyle of Bloodborne while giving you none of the tools. They go for speed and ask you to go for tiny punish windows against enemies with infinite combos and delayed attacks, but also give you Dark Souls rolling and slow animations. You don't get the really good parrying, you don't get quick steps with every weapon, you don't get rallying to keep you going. You're slow again, and you're fighting enemies that only a Bloodborne character could properly keep up with, and that's why DS3 and Elden Ring feel that much harder than previous games. The design changed, and you can draw a line between early Souls and modern Souls, and I think there are a lot of people who like both, but there's also a lot of people like myself who only like one or the other, with my own preference being the earlier games up to Bloodborne (except DS2, which has more in common with later games, rather than earlier).
I don't agree that open world is "giant meaningless content" compared to corridors, BotW and Elden Ring maps are very much crafted with thought with things to explore around every corner, not just scrambled together randomly.
He probably feels like he has to “lawnmower” the map like he said…. Missing 80% of the “content” which is intended….. just play the game and put it down
@@kindlingking No it isn't. Secrets and hidden details are good game design. It adds replay value and lets a person who already beat the game play it again and experience new content they didn't the first time. A game that railroads you down a set path that never deviates is terrible game design.
@@AynniV but caves and small dungeons aren't secrets they're everywhere. And all of them are repetitive garbage. How does it add any reply value? If I go through lets say 10 of these and find all if them bad, then see another one on the map or just nearby. I can can either go and explore it anyway hoping for good experience or give up and progress with the boss of the area. Which approach Elden Ring was designed around? Should I keep my hopes up and search for good cave, in the end checking out most if not all of them (and get burned out)? Should I give up on the spot and not even bother with exploring everything than isn't a legacy dungeon, because I know it's not worth it? Either way it's bad game design. Also where did railroading come from? You know there's a world of difference between even Elden Ring and playable cutscenes? Some content could've been locked behind NG+ or if you chose to go with certain ending/questline. At the very least caves could've been actually good. But filling a giant open world with repetitive reused content and excusing it with "players aren't supposed to see big chunk of it anyway" is not the way.
As someone who used shield for entire Dark Souls 3... Shields are more than functional. If anything they are much easier to use and work perfectly on pretty much every boss, including shields being easiest way to defeat bonus boss.
the constant insecurity and personal attacks on miyazaki when your takes are so weak and you're bad at every game in the series kills the point you're trying to make. the answer to 90% of your issues is either use one of the mechanics you're ignoring or grow up
Regarding the invasion system, a couple days ago I sat down and fully played through Ds1 for the first time. Multiple times throughout my playthrough (notably in undead burg, and anor londo) I came across invaders who were fully twinked out in the most absurd gear possible. The types of setups where someone who is not acutely aware of the intricacies of Ds1's online pvp system stands no chance against. My first thought upon seeing these people was just "damn I'm sure you are loved by your parents" before I was quickly killed without even managing to so much as scratch the invader. I love invasions, but the entitled players who decide to shit on those who are just simply trying to enjoy a game for the first time are not exactly people I want to be interacting with.
Now my DS3 and ER it’s the same thing but in the opposite direction, in DS1 if you wanted twinked gear you had to basically beat the game at as low of a level as possible, and for as much a sense people hate Soul Memory in Dark Souls 2 it was extremely effective at almost completely killing twinking at least before the Agape Ring was added). Then DS3 and ER come in with the fucking password system, want the Freyed Blade or Rivers of Blood at level 1? You got it. Want the Dragonslayer Greataxe or Blasphemous Blade for some meaty one-shots? All yours, just one community post or message to your buddy away, and it’s fucking bullshit if you’re a solo invader with any amount of integrity, especially since DS3 and ER’s Invasion *only* allows world’s with summons to be invaded. You’ll pretty much always be fighting against people with twinked weapons, assuming you don’t interrupt two players trading equipment at Hall Wall or First Step, which is so fucking frequent that it made me give up on DS3 and ER’s PvP entirely.
Das1 Remastered is especially full of those types of invaders. Rarely you'll get just some dude trying to engage with the system in an intended, healthy way ("What is intended?"), but the vast majority are just losers trying to feel good about themselves by having "technical opponents." It's the same thing as being a kid and your friend hands you a controller in a 2 player game he refuses to explain, then wipes the floor with you and brags as though he did something. It's just insecurity and internal anger being realized through a 'safe' form of bullying. They're children.
@@PlagueOfGripes In a sense thats why ER's opt-in system for invasions is better. The more I think about it, the more I like the fact I cant invade hosts by themselves.
Miyazaki has already stated he is not a sadist, he is a masochist. You are completely mischaracterizing him by saying he doesn't care to die to his own creations. He designs the game because he wants to suffer. He designs the games as he imagines what it would be like to play them. He is designing as a player, not a developer. That's the key to the entire ethos of from software. The only reason he doesn't play them after release is because, like you said, he doesn't have the ability to change the game after it's finished. He knows all the tricks, what tactics work, where all the secrets are, there's less joy in that for him. But the idea that he's an outsider is just... It's incredibly disingenuous. He's not a pro gamer, but he is a player at heart, and that's what matters.
As someone who loves Dark Souls 1, has mixed feelings about FromSoft in general, and has said several times that "the boss fights are my least favorite part of the game" to the bewilderment of my friends, it's nice to hear similar sentiments for once.
Boss fights use to be a cool reward for a punishing journey through a level. Now you just steamroll everything until the fog wall, and spend 15 tries on every encounter.
I already heard Gripes thoughts on writing in his artgripe so let me precomment: Grape says Elden ring traded the character driven stories and simple human tragedies for the sake of elaborate expodumped plot. I coudn't disagree more, events like black knives night are a hotpodge of desperate characters making tragic decisions and sacrafices, commiting evil in the name of what they believe is right. Game encourages you to look at the events from character's perspective all the time, namely every NPC wondering "why would marika shatter" and cause apocalypse. Take Gurranq/Maliketh for example, he's Marika's adopted brother that grew up with her from birth, completely loyal to her, he killed Gloam eyed queen and locked inside his sword her ultimate weapon. He is viewed as a monster who carries death and anihilation of the very soul to anybody who would rise against Marika, her fatefull guardian. Despite this, he was created by fingers that seek to control Marika, therefore he has inside him a death switch to kill Marika if she ever steps out of line. During the fatefull night his sword gets shattered, and pieces of rune of death get stolen from him, making him fail in his duty and bring devastation. Overcome with guilt, he swears to never have death stolen from him again. In heinous act he grafts the sword to his very flesh. Currently he seeks to write his wrongs, leads a coven of hunters dedicated to eradicading zombies created by black knives night. He gathers the corrupted pieces of zombification mcguffin and devours them as it's the only way to dispose of them. But grafting death to his flesh corrupted him, he is compelled to seek and devour it all in neverending hunger, because of this he also voluntairly banished himself from society in fear of this hunger eventually reducing him to senseless beast. He is left in solitude, every night thinking about his sister Marika, what compelled her to destroy the very world order, why did she betray him without telling him anything(he doesnt know about finger death switch). He likens her burden of godhood to his hunger(which takes like, 5 paragraphs and 3 theories to explain properly). Knowing all that his lines hit far diffrent.But it takes a freaking while to get to that point don't it? In Grapes comparisson he summed up quelaag's story in 3-5 sentences. Well, every character written by GRRM in elden ring has this much lore to them. Elden ring's problem in my opinion is that it uses the same tools to tell it's story, while having 10 times more elaborate events and some actual complex characters. Because of this it gets much harder to figure out the whole picture, and game often gets too concerned about telling you the bare neccesities to comprehend the plot, instead of focusing on the character's place in it. It fails to provide that initial hook of the viewer to make them look deeper, while expecting much more complicated digging than ever. Vaati basically gave up on understanding this lore and mostly sums up other people's theories while throwing some superficial stuff of his own. I myself only got hooked thanks to Melina's voice actor going hard on her speech near frenzy flame, nothing intrested me before that.
Don't discount your game design ideas so easily just because they're contemptuous towards the current general gamer. Bennett Foddy clearly had contempt for his audience and he proceeded to create a new genre that attracted the kind of people that he probably hated and it reverberates to this day in the latest streamer rage bait "climb disparate props and fall for 20 minutes if you make a mistake" kind of game.
I don't even think the hypothetical game he described is lacking in general appeal, it just wouldn't cater exclusively to fans of the current Souls games. I'd play Plague Souls: Prepare to Look at Bricks edition so long as it was well made.
generally interesting video, but I tapped out in that last section about projecting onto miyazaki. you pull quotes from the interview where he SAYS he has gone back and played Elden Ring, and just generally misread everything he says to paint this picture of an out of touch sadist that you seem to really want him to be. kind of a disappointing end.
Your thoughts and preferences in regards to the Souls games heavily remind me of Matthewmatosis's video "The Lost Soul Art of Demon's Souls", which was a great encapsulation of my personal disappointment with the evolution of the series. Needless to say a lot of your points about feeling alienated by the relentless focus on (lackluster) action mechanics and dodge-simulator boss fights instead of the immersive experience and tightly designed interwoven world really resonates with me
@@Ghorda9what it's called doesn't matter to me, it's the same application of boss fights and very basic combat mechanics being the main focus of gameplay as if FromSoft thinks this is DMC but now with the added problem that the concept of balance doesn't exist bc you can be severely under or overpowered relative to the main quest depending on how much you explore the open world. If it bothers you for me to bundle Elden Ring as part of "the evolution of the series" just replace it for the evolution of FromSofts game design or something, but really despite not being called Dark Souls 4 or Bloodborne 2 it's clear these games are all of the same type (Sekiro is the only one that stands out, not sure if I'd say it is as well, I couldn't stomach more than a couple hours of it)
@@Ghorda9 Yea, no, its literally just Dark Souls with a different name. Not saying thats a bad thing, but changing the names from Bonfire and Souls to Graces and Runes doesnt change anything. Its DS with an open world. Same combat, same style of storytelling, same style of environments, same NPC quests, same levelling system, etc etc. Its a Souls game.
This dude got so pressed over Bloodborne stating "shields engender passivity" in the game that is deliberately designed around being as aggressive as possible. It's not insulting shield players, it's the game telling you: "Hey, this isn't Dark Souls. This is Bloodborne where the best defense is a good offense."
Can’t wait for this! While I enjoy Elden Ring for what it is, I feel the departure from what Dark Souls was is much larger than people admit or realize and I’m very surprised that it isn’t brought up more in current discussions.
I think most people don’t mind Elden Ring being different from Dark Souls because it’s not called Dark Souls. Making Elden Ring a separate world and story allows them to change things how they want without being locked to what people think Dark Souls “should be” (which I’m also expecting this video to have a lot of)
Not disagreeing, but I think personally I'd consider the jump between Dark Souls 2 to Dark Souls 3 to be more significant than the jump between Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring. For better or worse (in my opinion for the worse, as I personally prefer the slower combat of 1 and 2), Bloodborne really affected _everything_ going forwards.
It's not brought up because a lot of newer From fans are rabidly loyal to their difficulty simulator. They have become drunk on the difficulty "git gud" marketing that any criticism of it is met with a flurry of "skill issues" from trogs who are missing the point. Or they're so drunk on the ideas they sell rather than the actual execution. It's kinda like how of you criticize Elden Ring's lore for not making sense, they'll take the idea of how it's broken up to say that you missed the point of the story and then expect lore videos to explain it.
@@joshwenn989Oh it absolutely did. I love Bloodborne but I sort of detest how much it has infected From's design philosophy. Sekiro stood out as being a proper and unique evolution of the series while 3 and ER felt like they were odd hybrids.
Fr, especially since shields aren't even bad in the later games, fingerprint shield and antspur rapier is the easy way people kill Promised Consort Radahn. Not a comment on the strategy itself, but the hardest boss in the hardest souls game is countered by a shield strategy so the devs definitely don't hate shields or they'd be as shit as that BB shield in the later games.
@@YakuzaGoon Fingerprint shield, or any medium shield with Barricade Ash of War, is one of the safest, most effective ways to beat just about everything in Elden Ring. Even Malenia can't heal back enough to offset the damage from Serpent-Hunter + Fingerprint shield turtle strat.
While I do not like certain things about ER, there are things I adore about and I think is some of the best writing From ever had (which may be due to Martin) and that is Morgott who is probably my favorite character now From ever had and my favorite boss. Warning. Manifesto incoming: Morgott is an EXTREMELY tragic character. The saddest part about Morgott is that he was legitimately blessed. Omen curse is no curse. It's a blessing of the Crucible which was later seen as a curse due to Golden Order. He may as well have been the most holy of all Demigods, but he was punished for it by being left for a time in the sewers and he hated HIMSELF for it. That is until he was released, most likely by the time Giants were still a threat since Godfrey knew him and he was banished after he beat the Giants and other enemies of Erd Tree. He also uses a Giant Crusher. A weapon that fell out of use after War with the Giants. A GREAT way to hide little story details, in Boss's moveset itself. In his remembrance (japanese version) it's said that he didn't need anyone else's love to love in return. He just loved. He loved others matter what. And there most likely were people that did love him. One of them was Godfrey, but the other may have been his brother Godwyn... who was killed at the Night of the Black Knives. He tried to be a protector, he created Black Cavalry who we see in the trailer and may have been sent by him to hunt down the assassins (who also can be seen protecting the carriage with Malenia's Master's sword that goes to Haligtree), he created Sentry's Torches to protect his other siblings from Godwyn's fate, and yet... they all betrayed him and destroyed everything he loved and even then when he shows up in the throne room and calls his siblings traitors he still seems to have some actual care for them after all of that (calling Godrick by his title, being nostalgic with Malenia and Miquella, respectful for Radahn and mournful for Ranni) and he still felt great shame after staining their thrones meaning that he truly cared for them (outside of Rykard who may have taken more public role in killing Godwyn as part of his deal with Ranni which could have been start of his Blasphemy). Morgott was a good person that was betrayed by almost everyone around him. By his family that started destroying their life and breaking their world, by the Erdtree which wouldn't accept him due to his "curse" and by Golden Order which indoctrinated him into hating what he was blessed with. Morgott is probably one of the saddest characters in the game, if not THE saddest. A bitter person who has nothing, but hatred for himself and his family and the only thing he cares about is the thing that made his life miserable in the first place. And the only people that loved him are either dead (Godwyn who given that he befriended Dragons most likely cared little about curse on Morgott) or he never got to meet again after longing to see them again (Godfrey). And the part with Godfrey is even more sad when you realize that Godfrey we fight before him is most likely created BY Morgott. It's possible that Morgott created that apparition because he wanted the help of his father, he wanted his father to be there and become Elden Lord, evident by him placing his crown on the throne in the trailer. At the end when we fight him he is legitimately left with nothing, but the crumbling city and his duty which is built on lies of the Greater Will. Pray for Morgott The Omen King, The Grace-Given. The True King of Leyndell and only worthy successor of Godfrey. A true heir. The only Demigod left that is worthy of being called Golden. Morgott the Golden Omen. He is definitely the most Martin like character from Elden Ring as a whole. A perfect mix of Stannis and Tyrion.
Месяц назад+3
A fellow Morgott enthusiast. Honestly, morgott’s story resonated with me on such a personal level that I don’t think any character in pretty much any piece of media has made me feel the same way. I know it’s an absolute meme but I genuinely went “oh he’s literally me”. A being born into a world that could do nothing but hate him but couldn’t bring himself to hate them back so he did the only logical thing left; join them by hating himself in a vein attempt at gaining even a crumb of their affection. A being who by all accounts didn’t do anything wrong but that doesn’t matter because he was born “wrong” and therefore nothing he did ever mattered. The only time he got to make any difference and got any respect required him to completely hide his identity because as soon as it would be found out no one would care about his deeds and his love, only that he was born wrong and therefore his actions mean nothing. His story genuinely hurt to experience (in a good way though that’s some gourmet writing). I don’t usually relate to video game characters but he is basically the sole exception. God bless the true lord of lyndell, last king of kings.
In the DLC they reveal that Omenhood is a curse the Hornsent put upon Marika's people as revenge for Messmer's crusade. Not that it really changes what you said, I just thought it was worth clarifying.
@@carlschrappen9712 Actually it doesn't. By the time Messmer launches his Crusade Mogh and Morgott would have been already Born as Messmer knows of Tarnished people (who were a thing after Godfrey was banished) and I have my reasons to think Messmer was born sometime after war with the giants. In short I think Marika was cursed by Fire Giants. Her children then were Born with Red hair and dreams of Fire (Fire Giants may have wanted her children to Burn her Tree) and seeing that she removed part of herself which was Radagon who had curse within him (And I think he was Order part of Marika, leaving in her only Gold). And I feel like Morgott and Mogh are just Hornsent. Given that Marika most likely used same ritual as Miquella did it is very possible she used Hornsent vessel for Godfrey (Hornsent made Enir-Ilim so most likely only one of them can be a vessel which explains why Miquella focused on getting Mogh). And that may be why they have so many Omen children. Genetics. And Hornsent and them thought they were some curse because medieval times not know how genetics work and Godwyn may have been with recessive genes.
There's a lot of more subtle stuff in ER's storytelling that people don't think much about. The Frenzied Flame is the biggest media literacy litmus test. So many idiots think it's a great cleansing or power fantasy for their tarnished. Nah it explicitly shows the god needs a host to take over. You're just letting another outer god do their thing and repeating the cycle. But this time you're a literal puppet now. These dudes don't even realize the the FF even melts away souls. The clearest indicator of someone not getting it is if they think it will lead to rebirth and not a scorched earth tactic to kill life on the planet forever.
Oh sweet, I was really in the mood to revisit Plague's old critiques after beating Shadow of the Erdtree. A lot of the bosses, especially the final boss, made me think, "If im not liking this, Plague is *hating* this (if he's even still playing)."
I usually don't agree with perhaps 50 % of your opinions but I still enjoy listening to them because you are obviously a good talker but also you tell them in a way that generates curiosity and makes me sometimes reconsider and reflect my own views, without jumping to conclusions straight away. So thanks, I appreciate you.
@@kode-man23 I would love to see Plague on Ratatoskr's podcast; imagine the contrast of someone like plague who doesn't enjoy most of the FS games and the parts of DS1 he does enjoy is within the super minority of appeal that everyone else likes the game for. It's like if someone's first game in the sonic series was SA1 and they only like the robot walker stages and sees all the other aspects of the series like the old 2d games, and the speed+ plus level design as the terrible parts of the game.
I know you dont talk a lot aboit Sekiro in this video, but i really do feel like it solved the issue that the reliance on dodging created. I think what Miyazaki meant by the shield jab in Bloodborne was not that he just hated shields, but rather, the "passivity" didn't create an exciting gameplay loop. Dont get me wrong, I am a shield enjoyer in DS1 as well, and abhor how horrendous shields are in DS3 and onward. However, in Sekiro, while you don't have a shield, the building up of postire bar, while alao offering full damage immunity while blocking (at the cost of a quicker loss of posture) allowed you to play more passively, but also encouraged you to engage in a a more active defense: you are not dodging around and trying to fish for backstabs, but rather reacting to the enemies and finding openings, or making your own. It's a shame From didn't lean into that combat system more. I think a game that replicates that tempo and style but focusing it around shields could be really cool.
Totally. I felt the same way playing Lies of Pi, I felt like this was exactly what I wanted from this type of game, so many defensive options and ways to play. It felt so rewarding to learn parry timings for my blocks,
The reason why they didn’t go further with the combat system in Elden Ring is probably because they were developed at the same time, and I would assume Sekiro’s combat was tuned much later than Elden Ring’s so the game would be delayed much further if they even tried implementing it in. Sekiro also feels much more polished than Elden Ring for some reason.
Your description of Sekiro is basically is a more accurate description of Elden Ring. The primary difference between the two is that Sekiro has fewer responses and they’re more clearly telegraphed. In Elden Ring the goal is to create your own openings but the avenues of response are more various. Sekiro is like rock, paper, scissors, but in Elden Ring you have to experiment more, figure out whether you can get light attacks in certain windows or heavy attacks or charged heavy attacks, directional dodging is more important, many attacks can be jumped for heavy attack punishes which low profile subsequent attacks, some attacks are better strafed than rolled etc. They even added guard counters as an additional aggressive response for shield users. The goal is to experiment to create your own openings according to the possibilities of your build. The bosses are designed around this sort of aggressive experimentation. I can understand why one would prefer the simpler system of Sekiro, because it’s more intuitive, but Elden Ring is not “badly designed” because people refuse to engage with its systems.
@@evilfungasI'll accept ER as a well designed game when it doesn't use cheap tricks like fly swatter attacks, incredibly aggressive weapon tracking, input reading, and wildly inconsistent telegraph animations that come across as unnatural. Not to mention the stuff that inadvertently weighs down on the enjoyment of the game, like refusing to fix the camera on huge enemies despite it being a joke at this point for a decade now, or an overabundance of particle effects that fill the screen and limit vision. I understand ER's mechanics, but it doesn't change the fact a lot of its tricks have cause a backlash within the community and called them out for what they are: a cheap way to hike up the difficulty. Rather than find ingenuitive ways to makes challenges interesting, they opted to just hard counter reactive players by designing moves to pull fast ones over the players until you hammer away at it.
@@thegodofsoapkekcario1970 Sekiro is way more polished because they didn't make the game twice as long just for the sake of cheap novelty and "wow, game big!!!"
It's actually sad that Plague never seemed to learn how to parry with guns in bloodborne despite it having the most forgiving window in the whole series. "waaah waaaah plank shield item description is making fun of ME"
I'm a filthy Elden Ring/DS2 enjoyer who loves survival meters and weapon degradation, and I think I'd love your hypothetical game. I hate dodge rolls, I think they look stupid and if they have to be in a game then they should look obviously magical to reflect that real people can't phase through matter. Bloodhound Step should've been the default animation for dodging, dammit.
What also makes Plague opinions really grating to agree with is that I watched him play videogames. Why is he constantly cheating and modding the games? Makes everything he says so much harder to understand especially if he does in fact have the power to change it via mods. That's why I can't take players who use mods seriously because they often have the most warped view on game design out of all people. They're crafting the idea of what the game should be and not the reality of what it is which causes many issues. So focused on this "Idealized Version" that it makes everything extremely hard to understand. Perfection certainly is a thing to strive for but you need to understand the expression "Double Edged Sword". The very weakness you claim it has could be the very backbone of why it's so strong. Too many Estus? How? Genuinely how? If you can get invaded at anytime plus the dungeons can get a lot bigger than I don't see that as an issue. Especially when you consider how expensive it is to kindle a bonfire. Then it's especially weird to understand when you consider Faiths biggest appeal has been the Healing spells. So in actuality you don't have 20 heals you really have like 30+ heals and if you start counting Humanity as a heal itself then we're easily reaching 50-100 Heals ready in the players inventory. But since Healing has a locked animation it creates risk when Healing. So like is it really that weird to give the player 15-20 heals when those heal attempts can be interrupted and even lead to your death? Plus the idea of healing is that you made a mistake. If you're healing you're already messing up not improving. You also neglected hiw Estus are not a full heal. Majority of players experience will be chugging at least 2 Estus to get a Full Heal. The cost is a lot more than just a singular Estus. Healing doesn't just mean you win especially when there's a huge action game aspect to the combat. If I tell you I need all 20 Estus to beat the game in my playthroughs you cannot say it's a skill issue when you actively use cheat programs on basically everything you streamed and recorded. Plus that goes to show how fruitless it is to openly critique videogames because their will always be a fan who loves it. But as time goes on I realized you're just the whiny piss baby you've been mocking all these years. Not realizing you're the very gamer you're trying to discourage from making dumb opinions. Any negative review about art is already dumb and completely misses the point. I 100% mean this especially when it comws to videogames. Deadly Premonition is a "bad game" and we all know it's not a game for everyone but that doesn't mean it's wrong to love it or to even emulate it. One mans trash is another mans treasure. Why would you actively make people's lives worse by saying the game is not good? What did you even add to this discussion? This is why people tend to heavily disagree with you. It really just adds nothing to the entire discussion.
the bit about how people's expectations of "difficulty" have tainted the company's output honestly rings very true. i felt this especially when playing through Armored Core VI. that game is fantastic, but it inherits certain souls-isms and sekiro-isms that bog down the experience tremendously. you can see this in its boss fights, which *suffer greatly* from the "souls boss" archetype. they're trying SO HARD to be like modern souls or sekiro bosses to the point of being almost distractingly bad. the worst part is that i am an armored core fan as well as a souls fan. so im seeing something i like become ... tainted by something else i like. in a way that doesn't mix well. like putting ice cream on your pasta ... it just ruins both foods in tandem.
Ok, but where does the argument of shields being useless in later Souls games come from? I'm a lifelong member of the "Plump Sort" covenant, and I always fat-roll my way through the souls games with a tank build on my first playthrough. DS2 is a big "maybe" on that front, but in both DS3 and Elden Ring, greatshield builds very heavily neuter some of the tougher enemies and bosses in those games. My only issue with them really being, you usually don't get that many options, you either use the best shield in the game, or at the very most, the second or the third best, the rest are usually too weak to function if your plan is to mostly block your way through the game.
I mean in DS3 most shields either have horribly nerfed DR or are made much heavier than the same shields in the prior installments, and in ER shield tanking seemingly sucks your massive stamina bar dry immediately on tougher enemies, but those are what I can think of. I'm not a fan of either admittedly but I've kind of fallen off Soulslikes in general. I can't even really enjoy booting back up DS1 or 2 these days.
@@JakBed96there are talismans and ashes of war like Barricadr Shield that pretty much nullify the stamina drain from shields not to mention guard countering is one of the best offensive options in the game
he did say he wasn't a souls content creator and it showed immediately! It's like playing Kojima's games and saying you didn't get any of the core story points it's trying to tell its viewer/player, like in Metal Gear
@@zachjaybseazer94 not really, it's not hard to work around you get plenty of time to find them again before you need to dodge. you also don't lose lock on when he teleports, only for the big ranged attack.
It makes sense if you have a low gimmick tolerance when about half the fights in DS3 are gimmick fights. This is without counting "Hidden" gimmick fights like Darkeater Midir: Midir takes an additional 20% max hp from a poise break crit making it poise break him 5 times an win and no other damage really matters. Aka a glorified gimmick fight which makes the final DLC half gimmick and half normal bosses like the base game.
You know it’s a good gripe video when people who usually agree with you found some things to disagree with. Like gee wiz it’s really hard for you to understand why people want rule in a game when a game is literally just a ruleset.
Recently, I beat DS1 for the first time. For me, what I loved about the game was the melancholic atmosphere and subtle elements of horror mixed with hazardous exploration. I un-ironically suck at the games combat, and I love how scary and frantic the game can feel in the heat of the moment when you are caught off guard. It makes the exploration aspect of the game all the more rewarding and thrilling. Those aspects of the game lend credence to the idea that you are a foreigner to these lands. That the adventure has stakes and consequences. My favorite moment in my play through was accidentally coming across the secret passageway to ash lake. Delving deeper and deeper into the roots of the world before I came to that primordial lake with ageless trees, and the Hydra. It felt like a genuine, awe inspiring, spiritual experience. None of the boss fights hit as hard as that moment for me. If I were to design the game I’d want to play, it would set a lazer focus on those elements. A game where you are exploring an alien world with subtle hints at a grander narrative, with a focus on more horror and survival elements. Although the game is obscenely unfair at times, Fear and Hunger comes pretty damn close to my perfect game. Seriously though: Dark Fantasy Horror is a genre that isn’t explored enough in my humble opinion. The medieval era was all sorts of cursed, and I’d love to see that expanded upon in future games.
I like how halfway into the video I had to pause to have a long introspective conversation with myself about what I like and get out of games only for that to be the moral of this hour long video.
I normally like Gripes his videos alot and while this one started enjoyable it ended up feeling like putting other people in boxes to justify his own opinions. He seems vaguely aware of this but i think he missed the mark alot
Dark Souls 3's bosses have a strange case where, once you see some of the original intended boss orders, some things begin to click for why its boss quality flip-flops a lot. For me, Pontiff Sulyvahn was SO peak as a boss that, after his defeat, the bosses after him seemed abnormally not as grandoise, interesting, fun, or even challenging in many cases. Later on, i learned that he was originally supposed to be the game's final boss according to his file names, which also explains why even after his defeat so many things referencing him are still showing up: those are all things that were supposed to continue hyping him up for a big, grand finale of the ages, but him becoming reshuffled into a midgame boss results in all of those items after him being "Oh hey, that dude i killed is still being referenced a ton. Wonder why?". It also explains why most players had a middling impression of the game's finalized final boss, the Soul of Cinder, because...it's a fun fight albeit 90% of that fight is literally just references to other material and characters. In other words, it's not a final boss against a character who has been slowly built up and learned about like every other Fromsoft title (Allant, Gwyn, Vendrick/Nashandra, Gehrman, Genichiro/Ishin, and Radagon), but a literal walking pile of fanservice that isn't even a character. It isn't a grand culmination of a figure whose in the game's narrative is a larger-than-life legend who you're catching up to, it's a big meta reference flimsily pretending not to be. And the result is that it kind of messes with the narrative since you kill the game's main antagonist at the halfway point, yet still hear about him despite his relevance being done. That would be like fighting Gwyn at Anor Londo instead of Ornstein & Smough as the big midgame boss: who or what within the Dark Souls 1 cast could possibly replace him as a character regarding narrative presence and relevance as the final boss? Well, no one can. And Dark Souls 3 for some reason wrote and designed the narrative for that to not happen, but then did it anyways despite the entire game obviously being designed for that not to happen. Sulyvahn was so integral in his role that Fromsoft straight up couldn't write a replacement character as the replacement final boss that made narrative sense, so they just dropped in a giant easter egg whose just a bunch of nostalgia characters crammed into a suit of marketable armor. It doesn't even make sense for it to exist either because every other Lord of Cinder burnt themselves without having to deal with this thing according to their own stories so why is it randomly popping up against only the player? The narrative was written explicitly so that Sulyvahn as an opposing character who has his clutches in every inch of the world would come in and attempt to stop you for his Age of the Deep, so haphazardly trying to replace that after all the groundwork for this setup has already been placed makes the final part of the narrative unsalvageable so a nostalgia boner was dropped in and somehow pulled off not getting canned by the playerbase.
That's a very interesting revelation that puts a lot of things into perspective. Years after beating Pontiff I still remember him as one of the hardest bosses for me in DS3. Soul of Cinder, on the other hand, I barely remember exists. To me he's a very forgettable boss because there's no build up to him, his fight isn't particularly hard or interesting, and hell he's not even a character. He's just an amalgam of a melee dude and a mage and some Gwyn sprinkled on top. This begs the question why did they pivot away from Pontiff being the final boss
I would have at least appreciated if 3's narrative had something different, but I was always of the opinion it should have been a prequel, as it undermines the point of the first game by stating what happens afterwards, just for the sake of a sequel. But the pressure to succeed after 2 "failed" (but didn't) is how you get 'memberberries and the desire to not do anything too out of line.
Pontiff was never going to be the final boss, you're misunderstanding the situation... the character model for an entirely different character was reused for him, while his own model was renamed to "Aldrich, Devourer of Gods". The final boss before Soul of Cinder was implemented was "Old King of the Eclipse" or something similarly named, and its story would be closer to the Lothric and Firelink plotlines rather than Irithyll's.
Bitching about the wooden shield description is such a sensitive gamer moment. It's obviously a self-deprecating joke from the devs. There's nothing more embarrassing than thin skinned gamers whining their usual "How dare the devs joke at our expense, their illustrious clientele. Yikes, bad business move, you wont get any money from me" (then buying the game a week later on G2A as usual).
My biggest ‘gripe’ is with how the series has gone fully mainstream so now newer fans and older fans are all just arguing with each other about the direction the series should or shouldn’t take and why one game is better than another. I think its time FromSoft go in a completely different direction with their games for a while, their Action RPG games have been played out coming to a head with Elden Ring.. and I say that as a person that Dark Souls 1 is my favorite game of all time and DS3, BB, Sekiro, and ER I also love too I will play anything Miyazaki makes any genre and I play all genre’s too myself I did long before I was a FromSoft fan. Theyve played this whole experiment out its time for something new. Once these games that were niche have become mainstream you know the innovation stage is over. Let the copycats make Elden Ring clones for the next decade so ‘omg open world wow!’ normies can keep playing games like Elden Ring that will likely completely miss the point outside of combat mechanics while FromSoft innovates with new artistic beautiful experiences that should likely not have mass appeal initially because innovation in art typically isn’t met with mass appeal praise. For example, say what you want about Kojima, but at least he’s an artist that tried something different with Death Stranding. Miyazaki is an artist, he needs to challenge himself with a completely new project.
@@sirrockemsockem5465I haven’t played AC6 yet , Im working on my backlog of RE4 remake and a couple FF games atm, but I watched a friend stream it for a couple hours it looks incredible. Sorry I can’t really have an opinion on it
I also dislike the community infighting, but - unfortunately for us - this is a problem which seems to reliably pop up around games when they become a series (specifically, when they change, seek to become different, build upon the first game using different systems, direction, tools, etc.). I've seen this schism happen to Dragon Age, Fallout, and even something seemingly smaller like COD Zombies. All for different reasons which can be as simple as "we want to keep the IP fresh" to complex reasons like "the project was bought after the creators went bankrupt."
@@blackhabits6408 Yes, I do remember vividly the backlash when Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker was shown to the public on release and the noses upturned in disgust that one, then later with Breath of the Wild. These generational series go in wildly new or different directions along their lifespan do always incite tribalism. Final Fantasy was only good in the pixel era, no it was good in the PS1-PS2 era, no its better after FFX, no its best as the MMO FFXIV that turn-based crap is outdated.. said so many people along the way when its me over here being a Final Fantasy fan the whole way through since the 90s and enjoying all of them for what they are because they're all different experiences each with something special and a unique story to tell and gameplay to enjoy. Its just painful for me to see the rift and opinion slinging and the way too now common thanks to Elden Ring 'you're just a boomer Dark Souls player you got nostalgia glasses on you don't matter we're the new generation now Elden Ring is our game now' because it wasn't nearly this bad even on the release of DS3, FromSoft or at least the souls series has been a household name to the more hardcore gamers for a while but I think Elden Ring brought it to 10x the audience that even that somehow and when everyone is rushing in it kind of makes me now want to rush toward the exit... Anyway I just have to come to terms with the fact the souls community as I remember it from a decade ago is gone since ER brought in so many more people and their voices drown out the voices of the community I originally connected with, but at least we have these pockets of the community still left tied to OG members from way back when. I can also just put the twitter, the youtube, and all that down and just enjoy all the games on their own without having to connect to the community that's probably for the best except in the few exceptions like this thread and pocket of pre-mania souls fans here.
@@MetalSlimeDrummer Agree with everything, but the final fantasy analogy is terrible. It's pretty widely believed that the golden era is FF6 through FF10. (Almost) Nobody says it's best as an MMO, best after FFX, nor best in pixel era. A more common point of contention is whether the series is terrible after FFX or not.
I said it in the chat, and while I respect your opinion on the series, I think it does ultimately come down to, "I have a difference of opinion on what the series should be than the devs do, and the devs have shown it's not a fluke or mistake that they're making the decisions they do because they double down on the things I don't like with each game showing it is in fact the intended design".
@@kahir8642 My point is, I don't think FROM's decisions are bad, they have a vision and they're sticking to it. For every boss that attacks by spazzing out and having 15 hit chains, the game also gives a player who's willing to crunch the numbers the ability to delete that boss before they get to fight back. Plague may not like the arms race of numbers but that is who the games are being made for now.
And just on a personal note, I like big numbers games so I have 0 issue with the arms race FROM has introduced. I've never understood the "git gud" crowd who insists you didn't really beat the game if you don't win naked with a club, I don't understand tryharding based around handicapping yourself because I come from the MMO world so for me, tryharding is to optimize as much as humanly possible for that last 0.5% dps increase and unlike in souls, NOT doing that is what makes you a casual because your "fun" builds is holding us back and wasting our time so you dont get invited to groups. So the idea that the casual is the one who optimizes and tryhards more is baffling to me.
I almost uninstalled Dark Souls 1 too, when I ran up against the Kapra demon. What that brought me back was my brother, who was also just discovering the game, telling me about the master key. Yeah, I had to restart, but at least I could skip the boss. If we weren't playing it together I may have never finished it.
Why is it that people who don't enjoy difficulty for the sake of overcoming a challenge must always strawman the perspective of people who do enjoy the challenge as doing so out of some self-indulgent egoism? I think the answer is likely rooted, at least in part, in insecurity. I mean, someone who is so upset by being hit even once in game, as was stated in the video, must lose his mind at the prospect of getting hit and killed over and over for hours on end. To me, that's just practice, though. We learn through repetition, and if I can clear a boss with few or no repetitions, I've not had to learn anything, and there's no joy in that. The process of getting better is fun, and dying is part of that fun. Most people who do challenge runs just genuinely enjoy the process, and the moment to moment gameplay. Honestly, though, the more I listen to this video, the more I realize this guy is just not a good player at all, and is mad the games are catering more to the people who have improved through practice, and need something that isn't braindead. Saying DS3 enemies are so quick that it's not reactable is actually laughable. There's a million videos you can find of people who are middle of the road players doing just fine; he's just bad, and doesn't want to spend the time it takes to get better. Trying to say the devs are insecure and need players to die a lot is funny, cause you're only going to die as much as he's suggested they're insisting upon, if you're actually just terrible at the game. My wife, who never played video games until pretty recently, dies way less in Elden Ring than is asserted as expected, in this video, even when she doesn't use spirit ashes or magic.
Ye, I'm not sure this guy has even played the modern games like ER, it's the easiest one for casuals with no ability to play considering the copious amounts of cheese in it from step 1. The community practically coddles these types of players now. This is why I prefer critique videos from verifiably good players, even if I disagree with the critique, if it's a player who's no-hit the game I know for a fact it's not a 'mad because bad' critique like basically this entire video (The jester of juice critique video of SOTE is one that's more interesting because it's coming from an actually good player.) I'm a middle-of-the-pack player myself, and I've beaten ER and Shadow of the Erdtree solo without cheese, along with multiple other fromsoft titles, so it just baffles me when people think their reflexes are too shit for these games, they need more self-belief. Also, an entire section seething about Fromsoft's bias against shield players because of the Bloodborne shield description, when shields are so fucking strong in ER that you can trivialise Consort Radahn with them, it's just hilarious.
@@YakuzaGoon Yeah, the bitterness present in this video is insane, and I doubt it would be there if he wasn't this bad, and mad about the game expecting more from him.
Insecurity drives too much discourse in this series. The best example perhaps being all the ER players who feel it important to constantly paint Spirit Summons as just another tool. It's almost taboo to even say that Summons destroy AI and boss design because it's too hurtful for insecure players.
@@aryman6589 I'm kinda sad the summons even got included. They're a cool idea, but it just trivializes all the bosses. Some of the summons can even just solo, like the video of the guy spamming Heal From Afar on the Golem Smith Ash to kill Consort Radahn. Didn't even have to engage with him. Most bosses can be trivialized with strong builds that don't include summons, so what's the point of the summons, when the AI just doesn't work well with multiple targets, and there's plenty of cheese without using them?
@@aryman6589 My theory is It's their most mass market game which results in a ton of new players using mega busted summons or builds, probably while knowing Fromsoft games have the reputation of being hard so they want that feeling of beating a 'hard' game while barely engaging mechanically with the bosses. This muddies the waters in discussions alot which is my main gripe. At least in Sekiro you know if someone beat Isshin they had a baseline level of competency in the game and you can assign some level of weight to their opinion on the boss fight, in SOTE someone can beat Radahn and it'd be hard to know if they were actually any good at the game. (e.g. was it a regular solo/no summon kill, was it a 1 shot cheese, was it summons and greatshield poking etc.)
"Thats a thing the games never fixed." Gets said a lot for a guy who clearly has zero experience with Elden Ring, which fixed several of your complaints.
Just to add to Dark Souls 2. The thing that drew me in is the idea of BIGNESS. DS1 is a small kingdom and something happened OK go ring that bell. Dark Souls 2 is about this whole weird liminal space where kingdoms and empires and peoples have risen and fallen over and over, together with your very personal story of being an undead trapped in this liminal space, between life and death, losing your memories and your humanity, and you need to embark in this whole journey to find a solution for your curse, if there is even any. It makes you feel small in such a large and old world. I like that vibe a lot, plus Majula is peak. By the way, I think they tried to recapture a lot of this vibe in Elden RIng, with varying degrees of sucess.
Clickbait aside, this is a vid about why people love different things. I enjoyed making it; I want to add new things to it every day. Patreon keeps me alive! Please: www.patreon.com/PlagueOfGripes
nuhh uhhh- good talk, was nice to listen to
It's a good day when you upload, i don't agree with a lot of your opinions on many things but i appreciate the way you articulate and present your views, not to mention some of your views are quite deep and thought provoking
its alive! feed the POG!
personal preference and projection aside, not being able to perceive a certain atmosphere or aesthetic detail wont allow you to share the same common ground for communication.
its a thing of different sensitivity, senses being stimulated in other ways.
influence on someones vision falls often under the censorship of ones own perception.
On the note of "open-closed", it does have an actual name being simply "open-ended"; so good news, that's an actual standard of quality that is part of the definition of many genres as well as a type of old school open world - as you noted some of them.
You come off as someone who hates trump, when will the trump vid come out?
- Channel is called Plague of Gripes
- Look inside
- It is full of gripes
That's true 🥲
@@Benzodrewd the new cereal from captain crunch. "Oops all gripes"
I'm offended.
I've watched this guy for years and thought it was plague of grapes ain't no way
Firmly grasp it!
I love these videos, because half the time Plague is saying things that convince me that he's a brilliant, insightful genius visionary who can grasp the heart of the world, and half the time he's saying things that convince me that he's a complete raving madman who can't possibly manage to dress himself in the morning.
Diogenes
*plague walking around with a lantern*
"Plague what are you doing"
"Looking for a good dark souls sequel"
I'd vote for him as the next prez in a heartbeat compared to our options. I'm sure he would not appreciate it in the slightest
@@jamesdixon9015 It's hardly any different here - I'd do the same for a lemon, a goose, a pineapple, my dog, three turkeys in a suit . . .
both statements are correct.
Whats funny about the shield debate in regards to Elden Ring is how they went out of their way to make shields great again after all these years of the fandom moving more and more to dismiss them out of hand
Just by adding the ridiculously good guard counter mechanic
Thats why I really dislike Malenia, they added an entire new mechanic to encourage proactive shield play and a bunch of talismans then Malenia just completely invalidates the item type. Its not that they're ineffective when fighting her, they are unusable due to her healing and lack of stagger on block and an active detriment for increasing your equip load.
I also wish they'd make straight swords cool, they're so lame in all From's games outside of the weapon art on the unique ones, and even then its usually just some kind of spell or prayer.
@@DemonBlanka they aren’t unusable. In fact, learning her with shields is probably the most stable path to victory for someone who’s struggling.
Also, you just need good damage to beat out her healing, even when blocking attacks to get guard counters. Throw parries into the mix and she’ll spend the entire encounter on her knees.
@@DemonBlankaeither you adapt your build for the fight or you hunker down and learn the fight with your chosen build, regardless of flexibility or stubbornness you need patience regardless
I fought malenia with a shield build on my first run through Elden Ring. It was tough, it was slow, each try took 5+ minutes.
But I did do damage faster than she could heal, and I learned which attacks I could guard counter, which attacks I could interrupt, and which ones it was better to dodge than block. All that added up to me coming out with a slow but consistent victory against her.
She has a learning curve, but almost every build needs to swap up how they fight her because she functions so differently from other bosses.
@@DemonBlanka She is the ONE boss that blocking is not optimal.
"Remember when i was one of the main Dark Souls content creators?"
Indeed... Perhaps if my vision wasn't obfuscated by myriad of deaths...
I hear Solaire is still looking for that Van Halen Mixtape
I thought he was the "Dragon Ball hate club" of content creators
remember EpicNameBro 😢
@@hindae085 GET OUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT
@@ghoulbuster1 I think that was a ways after the dark souls vids
I played Elden Ring like a completionist, as you put it "mowing the lawn". In one play-through I found everything, explored every area. It gave me very little desire to replay. I WISH I could have the mentality to play less than 100%, to skip things for next time, It's such a hard thing to do in the moment, to let something go undiscovered.
See, meanwhile to me, DS1 is a fun checklist of things to do, and Elden Ring is an EVEN BIGGER fun checklist of things to do.
I miss too many things on the 'checklist' to do that kind of playthrough, but I like going through the boss checklist before finishing up.
I’m ensuring I get as close to 100 percent in my first playthrough so when I do replay it I can do it purely for fun
I call this thinking with your lizard brain
The biggest issue with repeat playthroughs in Elden Ring is the number of things you need to pick up for every build just to keep up with the late game content. I'm talking flask upgrades. In the other games, there either weren't as many upgrades, or there weren't any upgrades at all; demon's souls and bloodborne had no upgrades (well in BB you can upgrade your max count but 20 is good enough for an entire playthrough), and the dark souls games only had around ~15 total items required for a max lvl flask. Elden ring requires 30 golden seeds and 12 sacred tears for a fully upgraded flask, severely hampering any repeat playthroughs by effectively requiring you to go on a scavenger hunt to collect them all. Not to mention all the other things you may want to pick up, with it all being so spread out
I can't believe the root of Plague 's salt towards Bloodborne began with an innocent item description making fun of his preferred gameplay style
*I* can't believe he never checked the wiki to see they added an actually really good shield in the dlc...
I can't believe it's not butter
@Somander 🤣🤣🤣
No.
Loch's Shield is only good against Arcane dmg. 😉
@alessandrobaggi6129 that's all you'd even need it for, if at all. I use it to pretend I'm a ninja turtle.
@@alessandrobaggi6129 yeah you can use the lock shield pretty well against martyr logarius, ebrietas, and rom. Micolash was pretty easy too with loch shield.
There's a lot of hate towards the final encounter of Demon's Souls, with people saying that the enemy is pathetic and poses no threat to the player. I am inclined to believe that those criticisms come from people that have no interest in other things about these games besides the action aspects. Besides that, the fight achieved what it tried to accomplish.
to this day, those complaints remain as one of the best examples of "missing the entire goddamn point" hahaha.
@@maria_remedios even if we were to worry about having an epic final boss fight, they already got it with the false king.
"FUCK why isn't this game Devil May Cry!!!??"
Same for people who say that Dark Souls sucks because the bosses are too simple (i.e not having 22 hit combos)
I never fell in love with the Souls games because of the combat. Yes I do enjoy it but the main aspects that draw me in are the world building and atmosphere. Like Bloodborne is just dripping in atmosphere that feels like a fever dream. It’s incredibly well designed in that aspect
This whole myth about Dark Souls 1 being a hard game because of bosses is imo very dumbfounding. Dark Souls 1 was, above all else, about exploring the world with caution and resource management. The difficulty didn´t lie in the boss fights, it lied to reach the bonfire leading up to the boss fights.
If you behaved recklessly and thought you´re Dante or Kratos with your two handed sword in a narrow corridor, like in Undead Parish with the channeler and his 7 or 8 hollows who get buffed by him, you´re in for a big bad time! Not only do you get assblasted by their amped damage output, but you sure as hell have to make sure not to hit your sword against the wall, making it bounce back and staggering you for a little moment, making you very vulnerable for a brief second. The Bell Gargoyles feel like a vacation in comparison to the hollows chaotic movements.
The boss fights more often than not, were basically the victory lap of your conquest of each area AND NOT THE MAIN SPECTACTLE, imo.
It's sad how it got twisted. Now the bosses and environments are spectacle without good gameplay. And ER I think was designed intentionally for you to scratch your way to victory, you're not meant to beat it with skill but with rpg elements, cheese, and anything you can do or use or think of to get buy. And the only way to achieve this was to make things ridiculously unfair. That's literally what Miyazaki's interviews at DLC release were saying how he had to, and likes to, play the game. He made a game around trading hits because he likes it.
Fact check: Hidetaka Miyazaki was a director for Armored Core before he stated working on Demon's Souls.
Yeah, this is Armored Core erasure lol
@@vradrax I'm starting to feel like the critique channels that do From Software stuff, but not Armored Core, almost always have pretty terrible takes on what they feel is souls losing it's identity or whatever.
They clearly evolve their artform, and constantly iterate their ideas, between games even;
It just feels so odd to leave it out, when it's incredibly relevant to where From Software is going.
This is just DS1 fanboy syndrome, that game is great but people gotta stop acting like it's the Bible of souls games when it wasn't even the first of its kind and is largely the exception to the rest of the series in nearly every aspect (limited fast travel, connected world, etc). If From wanted to keep making the same game over and over again they'd be making Dark Souls 2024, 25, 26, not Shadow of the Erdtree over two years after the original game.
@@vradrax
Nah... Armored Core games are decades old. AC6 is the first post decade of AC5.
He was but he was under strict restrictions with a partner overseeing him and making the big choices because it was From's cash cow at the time. Like a director apprenticeship which can arguably be considered training rather then directing. Miyazaki went for Demon's souls because the company would allow him to direct solo and have the freedom to express his creative style. Technically not his first directorship but it effectively was, hense why most people don't count it.
Dark Souls 3 being so divisive is funny to me, as I would describe it as "the most AAA of the three, playing everything safe"
That's what makes it divisive. Some love it for the boss fights, others hate it for being linear and for wallowing in member berries.
@@hurrdurrmurrgurrit sucks
@@hurrdurrmurrgurr it rules
@@hurrdurrmurrgurrIt exists
@@hurrdurrmurrgurr it
"If you aren't learning as you write/draw, you aren't writing/drawing correctly" is a phrase to remember.
True, but who gets to dictate what the “right” and “wrong” things to learn are?
@@kittenpuke8918 I don't think that's what the sentiment is getting at. In order to make something that is both good and true to yourself, you probably are gonna run into challenges over the course of creation. This requires being able to recognize what qualities you value for the thing you're making, recognize your mistakes, and be able to problem solve what needs to be done to fix the problem.
I don't know how one would be able to separate problem solving (and by extension, learning) from the creative process.
@@kittenpuke8918 It can be a decisive number of things and evidences - the genre your craft is under, as there's definitly sometimes a blueprint to follow to set an actual quality to your craft; in that it can be your very own establishement and your past success and failures, the polish, the execution and so on; all of this gradually changes your craft or the way you go around it, sometimes it also makes you go off the path and catch lightning in a bottle, or simply figuring out something new... ect.
The reception of the audiance, being the actual subjective part of art, will probably influence you as well, but not as much as your *practice* has ( since the reception of the audiance can very much as well take you to the wrong path and give you the wrong ideas; hence why appeal to popularity and outhority results in a fundamental and even at times existencial fallacy). Your practice will be the learning curve, your study, your experimentation, what shapes you and your craft. If you're following your curve, you're learning as you craft. 'Works beyond drawing and writing; it's just how art actually is.
@@CJojo_13_ Nah, people who draw as a hobby can be as true to themselves as people with more deliberate and structured learning.
@@Uhcip I don't know what the separation between hobby and academic artists has anything to do with what I said.
Imo, Elden Ring is probably the limit of how far they should push things with the Souls formula.
In this hardcore bods centric direction. They can still roll back to when braving the game world was the real focus and bosses were simple roadblocks you had to find your way around.
@@kodymcbride6901 I certainly damn well hope so in the case of the final boss of the DLC. I don't think they can push the difficulty any more than that (the "aggressive, roll-dodge constant AOE and attacking" Souls boss difficulty I mean, that they've been pushing and pushing further with every new release since Artorias of the Abyss) without the games turning into a complete farce. That boss is actually pretty much farce. It's like a parody of a difficult Souls boss, Glaive Master Hodir given life and taken seriously.
Different forms of challenge now please, or just stop trying to appease the moron git gud crowd. Maybe working with a publisher besides Bandaid-Numbnuts would be good for them.
@@kindlingking
Nah... Be like real life. Make every NPC and Boss just as difficult.
Let's not repeat DS2 where the run back to both Smelter Demons was horrible. On top of Blue Smelter with his botched hit boxes.
@@jahrfuhlnehmThe irony of the final boss is that his difficulty is mostly a question of playstyle. "Oh, you like to play by dodging around and jump attacking because that's optimal 99% of the time? DENIED", "Oh, you like to parry? Here, have this freebie" Because his attacks are relatively slow for an Elden Ring boss and can be parried making that playstyle a cake walk against him but the usual playstyle a nightmare. Really made me consider Plagues' point about upgrading weapon classes instead of the weapons themselves
@@jahrfuhlnehm they don't need to push the difficulty, they just need to evolve the combat and design bosses accordingly, like removing i-frames and making things more position/animation/hitbox dependent or putting more emphasis on spell casting.
i wish they embraced their dungeon crawler roots and had more of a focus on horror and resource management. my fav moments of demons and dark 1 was the unpredictability of exploring levels and seeing these horrifying monsters
Definitely something I don't think about often but is definitely present in a lot of the games. There's something to be said about how it gets undercut as a tone, and I'm not sure what it is.
@@PlagueOfGripes i think the gradual overemphasis of action and boss fights hurt it a lot, plus the abundance of checkpoints killing the tension of exploring. When i play I'm always thinking too much about the challeng, mechanics, and the next boss fight, and it's hard to get immersed when you're thinking about it in that meta way. It's a real shame with elden ring because it does have amazing monster design.
Outward. Go play it.
@@Boots43096I kinda have it the opposite. Even though the game alot of checkpoints. I mostly use them for "savepoints" when exploring rather than teleports.
You would love lords of the fallen
As much as I like plague rants, the shield one is odd. Bloodborne's shield description is obviously self referential to the game it's in, and not a commentary on shields as a whole throughout the series. It's a wry, in universe joke that 'yeah you need to be fast and _lethal_ to deal with the threats in this dream'.
If From throught that shields were big pussy mode they just... wouldn't add them in subsequent games? Or make them horribly bad, which they absolutely are not. Ninja flips are a product of poor balancing more then anything else, as darksouls 1 is riddled with the stuff. Shoutout to the current best way to deal with the Elden Ring dlc's bosses (especially the final one) being to turtle up behind a greatshield and poke away with a rot/bleed rapier or other weapon from behind the safety of your big wall. Of course, fromsoft fans being fromsoft fans are now happily roaming the streets telling people that if you beat the boss like this, you didn't do it 'the right way' or other terms to essentially mean 'I did it but better'.
Unrelated but it's also entirely possible to suit up in heavy armor with a greatshield and beat down ds3's bosses in messy, hit trading slugouts where you don't dodge a single time. I'd know, it's my favorite build in that game.
As another point towards From not hating shields, the new dueling shields from the DLC are really good even after getting nerfed.
Shields are great and are a tool just like every weapon.
Some people get very pissed when you tell them to use those tools lmao
@@Icebrick2 Carian Thrusting shield, two-handing it, buffed with scholar's armament ( was an int char, but trying to cast anything vs Consort Radahn was too much of a pain) , the appropriate talismans & the key ingredient - the new hard deflect tear - was how I faced & beat Radahn throughout my 36 attempts a few days ago. It was even incredibly satisfying getting those perfect guards to both DENY his obnoxious combo chains while ALSO turning his aggression against him via those boosted guard counters. Like seeing someone want to punch you, get their punch deflected right back in their face, ending up punching themselves almost 2x as hard.
Like, there's a lot of shield & defensive strats love in Elden Ring, even more so in the expansion. Even w/o shields, some of the most dominant ways I've seen ppl deal with him, were by stacking up defenses to incredibly high degree, that they were just facetanking him & making lifesteal builds more viable than ever - ofc, this works under certain conditions only, but anyone who wants to do something like that should be aware of them. Stuff like using Holy ground, Ironjar aromatics and/or Endure, Malenia's great rune, prayful strike, or a few other variants.
I still don't like the overtunned boss design, yet I do like what it resulted in: an embrace of more defensive/counter-dmg strats due to the offensiveness of the boss being dialed up so hard that trying to just avoid via dodge-rolls has become borderline unbearable for most ppl. Even top players like LetMeSoloHer got clapped a shit ton of times by Radahn until he learned him, andw as using a shield & the heaviest armor he had to help learning him, even mimic tear for a few times, and even now as he's learned him, every once in a while when he helps ppl on stream with him, he still fumbles & gets insta-deleted. For a more casual player like Asmongold, who played the whole base game interacting only the bare mimimum with it's mechanics (don't think he used a single craftable consumable in the whole game) , and jump-power stanced attack + rolled to victory, he was forced to embrace guard counters & fine tune his stats & talismans a bit. This isn't to say I enjoy a player being tunneled to a few particular strats, but I do enjoy when we're pushed to interact with more mechanics so that's a key diff to keep in mind.
He wasn't lying this is a plague of gripes
I'm not sure where you heard that Miyazaki doesn't play his own games, but here's what he said in a Guardian interview when Shadow of the Erdtree released:
"In preparation for Shadow of the Erdtree, I played through the main story of Elden Ring. I want to preface this by saying I absolutely suck at video games, so my approach or play style was to use everything I have at my disposal, all the assistance, every scrap of aid that the game offers, and also all the knowledge that I have as the architect of the game"
He uses ashes what a scrub
He shows this very interview on screen while saying Miyazaki doesn't play his own games lmao
I'm pretty sure he said this less because Moyazaki himself said he rarely plays his own games, and more about how players will constantly go around saying "if you use literally anything besides your one weapon, you're not playing Dark Souls right," because... there are people that actually still unironically do that in 2024.
There has definitely been an interview where Miyazaki says he doesn't play the final product. I guess he must play at least some of the game...
@@senecauk8363 He probably meant it as in he already played the game developing it and play testing it over and over probably.
I am content with Elden Ring. It is not where I wanted the series to go, but I will take a creative vision I don’t agree with over sandblasted mass appeal any day of the week.
You know you don't have to settle for either, right? There's a whole indie and double A scene to explore where better creative visions are being explored.
@@PANCAKEMINEZZ I’m aware. I just jumped into Tales of Maj’eyal and have been having a blast. Highly recommend it.
Where did you want it to go? Seems series veterans just are salty about no BB 2 or they just wanted a Ds3 boss reskin of a game.
Elden ring sold over 20 million copies. It is mass appeal
@@plaidchuck I hoped it would go lots of places. I wanted to see how far they could push the ludo narrative synergy, for example. You giving up on a character being represented by hollowing in game was interesting. The asynchronous multiplayer representing the interaction with the Souls community at large. Entering into covenant that visually expressed your intention to other players, without being able to speak with them.
Other things: fleshing out under baked mechanics, creating more diverse methods of combat, clear visual communication (enemy animations having clear physicality and inertia) and basically leaning more on a casual Monster Hunter design for bosses.
Basically, take the same principles of restraint that were probably system limitations and apply that to diversified approaches to solving problems.
Elden ring is a comfort game for me now, much like minecraft and ds2.
nice me 2
absolutely magnificent. Its rare to see another person who has ds2 as a comfort game. I cant exactly explain why but it just feels nice to play
HOLY I gotta respect the masochism on display.
I think a lot of the video is good, but the level of extrapolation from interviews on Miyzaki's mindset is a bit much.
Yeah a bit armchair psychology vibe
I kept waiting for the moment he revealed that whole rant was a joke.
@@nono9543I get where he's coming from, but yeah that kind of sounded like the ramblings of a guy who has to much time to spend inside his mind so to speak.
Yeah
My big gripe is he says "Miyazaki admitted he isn't good enough to beat his own games" when in the interview Miyazaki ACTUALLY says "I played through Elden Ring, I suck at games so I use every assistance and aid in the game and even my knowledge as a developer." Plague ends up flanderizing Miyazaki right before claiming that Fromsoft flanderized itself.
I tried to "mow the lawn" with ER during my first time through, and by the middle I was just burned out entirely. Ignored all late game optional content, just rushed to the default ending because I had become so sick of it.
Did the same, I wanted to start Mass Effect again
55:05 fromsoft quest design barely even qualifies as quest design. Its practically just finding a person shaped item that says cryptic shit and then you gotta guess where the next location of that item is until it stops moving and gives you something. There is absolutely no reason for Elden Ring at least to not have a quest journal, outside of me keeping one in real life. 🤣
It's nice when they describe what they're up to, what they want and you can guess where it's going to be. Has a bit of that Morrowind issue of needing to find the correctly shaped rock on a road somewhere to know where to go, in a sense. I understand not wanting markers, but I also firmly believe you shouldn't be able to mess up NPC quest lines without making a decision to do so, in some way. Just walking too close to another area and the game force-loading a new sequence feels unacceptable to me.
DeS quest lines almost feel like an after thought or like you're meant to slowly figure them out over multiple playthroughs thanks to some being tied to world tendency, just a mess. Then they kinda had some ok ones in DS1, like laurentius or luatrec doing their own thing regardless of you and just happen to overlap but then also had BHL and reah questlines locking you out of getting spells if done wrong and the nightmare of trying to do Seigmeyers right. I'm really glad they didn't further develop any ideas for NPC interactions or quest lines and even tied some to just emptying out their inventory.
Lol from doesnt know how to develop characters either, having us come across an npc that say’s two lines of dialogue then we find him dead later isn’t character development 😂😂
@@_CrimsonBlade"can you help me?"
"Thanks for bringing X"
*Dies*
@@_CrimsonBladealso "Hey this guy can help me beat a boss"
*find him dead 30 minutes later"
*reads vague unclear lore after picking up his armor or weapon*
I listened to this while playing Elden Ring and had a great time doing both. I enjoy hearing the reasons why people don't like the game. Especially when they are well thought out critiques and not just "Bad game, L Game, Zzz". But, let's get all this gameplay garbage out of the way and talk about what really matters
Furries. Plague, did you like the cute snake girl in Volcano Manor? Do you have any input on the bats?? Would you date a Rune Bear if they were a 7 foot muscle mommy???
PLAGUE.
Plague we HAVE TO KNOW HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THE SNUSSY LADY PLEASE
I also listened to this while playing elden ring lmao
I'm not sure how far you are into the DLC but uhh, Miyazaki doubles down on the furry thing lmao.
Snake lady hot. The bats??? I date them if they were a muscle daddy
@calvinwithak7514 Same lmao I was grinding for Black Knight armour and absolutely hating it.
Fun how video and task align sometimes
Red phantom gwynevere is scary
oppai
Red glowing [Amazing Chest Ahead]
What part is that at?
@@bajscast 22:58
I don't just "watch" plauge of gripes, I sit my ass down and listen
The only man allowed to use the term sweety.
Hopefully you hear how insane he sounds then?
@@StainlessPotquite the opposite, the guy is very lucid and has a lot of well and longly thought opinions and arguments, I feel that a lot of of people just want to fight his opinions because they criticize things they like
@@JoaoSchoen He says you need to comb through ER in a grid, when the game has roads, landmarks, signposts... If you go "by grid" you would just be picking up a lot of plants. Out of all the open worlds out there, ER does the most to fix this genre problem, because all the locations are bespoke and layed out with purpose.
He claims just going where you feel like would have a new player discover only 10% of the content, when that's just completely impossible because the difficulty frequently roadblocks you, encouraging you to look for more resources and places to go. This opinion could only make sense if you have OCD or something
@@StainlessPot I explored what I thought was all of Limgrave and after giving up on the storm castle I decided to just roam around and find more sites of grace, and after exploring half the scarlet rot area and the city that's half destroyed on the water around the magic academy or something I looked up the interactive map and I hadn't gotten half the items in limgrave
And Elden Ring is a lot of grind, in Dark Souls getting some new armor and upgrading it made me feel way better defended, with Elden Ring I felt I was made of toilet paper until I got some 20 levels in vigor, and then I went to the scarlet rot area and then I felt like wrt toilet paper again
I disagree that Elden Ring fixed much from open world games, while it feels way better then Zelda BOTW just by the mobility options it gives you that makes going from place to place in a big world more palatable there is still a lot of padding that can only be solved by grinding because enemies give way too little runes for you to be able to get stronger by going through all areas just once
In some sort of weird confirmation of your core point, I don't know how you got "use the right tool for the job" when I got "commit to your build." like a lot of my enjoyment of dark souls is playing the game over and over again with different kits, finding out which enemies and bosses I have stronger or weaker answers for especially since you can struggle through with literally anything too, and seeing how my route through the game changes as I need different tools to get my build online.
I completely agree. What you mentioned is the main reason I like to replay these games so much. My favorite thing about Elden Ring's open world is how the game encourages and enables me to go to different places, in different orders, for different reasons depending on what my build wants.
@@carlschrappen9712 yeah its not like you can just switch weapons especially in ds1 without using the parry glitch to consume infinite souls and even then, where you gonna get all those slabs so you have to focus on a build.
I think he's off his meds. He says DS1 is the most flexible one (it's not, ER is, obviously), then complains about how restrictive it is. Bipolar ah farmboy
The "use a different tool" argument for Dark Souls 1 does apply if you use a more normal weapon route (first playthtough, for example... otherwise it's moreso just an option to abuse the weaknesses of certain areas). If you use some of the more OP weapons, like any of the Black Knight Weapons, then obviously you don't need to change tools because it can just muscle through everything.
Using a singular kit obviously starts to apply more and more as you do challenge runs, as that's the whole point of a challenge run.
@carlschrappen9712 You know what other game lets you do that? Dark Souls 1 😂
its been a decade and this man is still salty about not being able to hold shield in bloodborne
Essay ahead:
I think the tricky thing with these games is that people come into it at different points, and that can drastically affect what they view as the “heart” of the series.
People who started with DS1 often rave about the interconnected world design, people who started with BB tend to fall in love with the world design and faster pace, aggression reinforced with the rally system, people who started with Elden Ring often are coming in with experience of previous open world games rather than souls likes, and so the merging of the two, with the vast scope paired with actually engaging combat and solid enemy variety can be a pretty incredible thing to experience for the first time.
The issue with this, is that if you fall in love with the first one you played, the other games will likely not do much to surpass the aspects of it that hooked you. If you played sekiro first, and loved it, you fell in love with what was primarily an action game, and may find the build variety of a traditional souls game overwhelming, and the combat somewhat bland in comparison.
The combat issues are the biggest divide, as if a player came in at any point from Bloodborne onward, they will potentially find the combat of the older titles to be way too slow, and the inverse is true as well. If you started with demon’s or dark souls, the Bloodborne/DS3/Sekiro/Elden Ring combat might just not click for you. For sekiro and Bloodborne in particular, It’s faster, it rewards pattern memorization and reaction time far more than preparation done outside of encounters, which is a bit easier to rely on in the mainline souls series.
I feel very lucky that I started with dark souls 3, as I feel it sits directly in the middle of the two extremes in a lot of ways, which allowed me to enjoy going back to older titles, and moving forward to the newer ones. I went DS3, Bloodborne, started Sekiro, started DS1, started Elden Ring, didn’t play any for a while, then went back after a friend had me try lies of P, completed Sekiro, completed Elden Ring twice l, played through demons souls, and then did Bloodborne’s DLC, and now have started Elden Rings DLC and am finishing up DS1. Everyone who recommended these games to me was a dodge roll light attack spammer, and so that’s how I learned to approach these titles. DS3 has really solid bosses that are clearly designed around this approach, and so it hooked me pretty much immediately. This “dodge and hit” approach made the transition to Bloodborne pretty much lateral, as I wasn’t used to using shields/magic, so they didn’t feel like things that were lost.
However, for a player who started in DS1, or demons souls, and used those play styles, I understand that it could be frustrating. Sekiro was a pretty steep learning curve, but once the rhythm becomes something you get a hold of, it’s very satisfying. Elden Ring kicked my ass because I never really learned how to COMMIT to a build in previous games, but once I went back to it, played once as a dex/arcane build going for bleed procs, and once as a pure strength going for stance breaks; I found it to be mostly great. Waterfowl is the only move in the base game that I couldn’t reliably entirely dodge with just medium roll, as I used bloodhound for my first fight, but going for stance break on my most recent play through I beat her in around 10 tries at level 150. I liked demons souls; and am enjoying DS1, but I have to recognize that despite me respective the world layout and level design and atmosphere and all that stuff, I never feel nearly as engaged by the combat. I’m sure I would love them more if I played them first, and I do like them and consider them well made games, but blah blah blah point is, you’re almost always gonna like the ones you play first more. That doesn’t make the other ones bad. The team at from soft knows what they’re doing, and I feel like they’re still doing it very well. Elden ring late game is kinda rough though
I've grown to appreciate something about the games in their library, clearly with some that stand out in my eye over others. Bloodborne and Sekiro are beloved to me for the experience, and Dark Souls 1 is always a blast to go back through. I've always wondered about the narrative that Fromsoft is losing what made their games standout or what hooked players, if only because each game seems to have a completely different design philosophy and seems to be a practice in Fromsoft trying something different every time.
(And yeah the last stretch of elden ring I do think is a bit of a bog, but I'm fine with it given the experience that preceded it was so fun)
What, in your opinion, would you say for people who started with Dark Souls 2 SotFS, like I did?
@@StevenPlesz truth be told DS2 is the one that I’ve played the least. It was technically the first one I tried, and I got frustrated playing it at a friends house and never picked it up, trying DS3 years later. I don’t have super strong opinions about it, so I kinda left it out of discussion. I do wanna play it when Inter the chance though!I
this has got to be one of the greatest takes i’ve heard about the soulsborne series. i’d like to share my experience with the games as well. even though i started with bloodborne, i enjoyed the interconnected world design of DS1 more, and strangely enough i was drawn to the sluggishness of the player’s movement and combat. everything in this game revolved heavily around the idea of commitment. warping to bonfires isn’t an automatic right given to the player at the start of the game, but instead it’s something that needs to be earned unlike the other soulsborne titles: this placed so much more weight on journeys since you had to fully commit to going to certain destinations, such as blighttown. once you rest at a bonfire in blighttown, you had to make the journey back up again; teleportation isn’t an option.
judging the combat and movement from the surface, it’s easy to dismiss it as stiff and awkward, but i actually think that works in favor of the game and fits the theme of commitment quite well. instead of placing an emphasis on timing attacks, the stiff movement incentivized you to be smart about your positioning whenever you’re fighting against enemies. the combat was more about being methodical then it was memorizing an enemy’s 100-combo attack string
I started with Elden ring, and think honestly that Dark Souls is far superior.
It's perhaps a bit slow, yes-- but the movement is slower. And the enviroments feel far more specifically tailored to the gameplay, and thus much better to explore.
It's like an entire game of the best parts of Elden Ring.
The only thing I miss are stakes of Marika to return straight to the boss-fight. Some of the boss-runups were hell in DS1.
"The only boss fights I liked in Bloodborne were the Witch of Hemwick and Micolash" Holy FUCK that is certainly an opinion I've heard now!
This has to be a rage bait video
That makes like two people I know of who like Micolash, him and Matthewmatosis xD
I think Micolash is fun as a concept/atmospheric fight, I've never hated him truly. Witch same deal, it's a fun concept for a boss fight, and I'll always enjoy the very interesting, outside of the box boss battles that show up in these games. The whole nightmare of Mensis and lead in to Micolash is such a cool build up and helps to really sell the nightmare aspect of Bloodborne. That being said, I love all of Bloodborne, so that's me lol
He basically falls apart at the halfway mark. He claims you have to heal after every hit in Bloodborne, bro never heard about the rally system.
Micolash the boss fight: 💩
Micolash the character: 👍
Bloodborne is not insulting the player with how it describes shields, it's describing the playstyle that they wanted the game to move away from and it does a pretty good job rewarding the player's aggression in turn. The rally system works. It's pretty forward thinking.
Its wild that the content creator that helped me fall so in love with the Souls like genre back when i was a brat now has feelings so far apart from my own with the current state of the series.
Guess thats part of growing up
He helped me get into Dark Souls all those years ago too, but his feelings are exactly like mine now.
Elden Ring is not Dark Souls, and there will never be another Dark Souls.
@@Tracker947yeah, nor should you expect it. Time to grow up
@@AydarBMSTUNo! I’ll never grow up. I’ll sit in my cesspit and complain about everything new and different.
Thanks for the video, Eli. I'm invading while watching this.
@@MrRenanHappy how dare
oh boy here we go
50:09 you're taking the BB shield's description too seriously. More than anything it's meant to be a hint to new players that BB's combat is designed around aggression.
Then why make the shield? And then the magic guarding shield?
@@vandagylon2885 Many reasons. Fromsoft likes to add goofy Easter eggs in their games, shield included. It's a fun callback to their previous games. They also like to avoid intrusive tutorial popups, so giving players a shield right at the start of the game (you can find it just after the central ward lantern) that's obviously rickety and no good is a fun in-universe way to teach players that shields aren't a fundamental part of bloodborne's combat system, especially when paired with it's description. As for the magic shield, it's situational but it can be legitimately useful.
@@Fentiman Easter egg? It's within the first hour of the game! You don't need to go out of your way to find it.
@@vandagylon2885 you know what I meant
@@Fentiman no, I don't think I do.... well. Anyway. I get where plague is coming from, but also, where the designers are coming from. But ultimately, I still agree with plague on the matter.
I've long since accepted that the Soulsborne Franchise has moved past me
My stance on what I like about DS1 is similar to Matthewmatosis; I enjoy the atmosphere, the interconnected world, the Design of the enviornments, the slow intensity of encounters, the harsh but fair moments that ask for you to keep calm, the music and just the... quiet bleakness of it all
My favourite moment in Elden Ring wasnt one of the bosses, or any of the combat encounters.
It was when I walked up to a castle on a coast, its walls filled with the hanging corpses of its former defenders and felt myself teleported to a world straight out of Berserk.
My second favourite was undoubtedly the moment I took a seemingly innocous elevator down... only to be greeted by what looked like a field of stars
But, despite everything, Elden Ring made it clear that these qualities, while present, weren't the main focus. It was the Bosses, the scripted encounters, the need for perfection through repetition.
Elden Ring wasnt for me, so I moved on and thats okay. I doubt I'll ever see it a this "perfect" gem, as this supposedly 11/10 game. I'll hold unto the few good moments I had with it and leave it to the people it was evidently made for
Not trying to convince you to buy it but the elden ring DLC had more of those moments for me than the whole basegame. There are actually some areas that are allowed to breathe. Coincidentally those are the areas most complained about online for being "too empty for a fighting game."
The map is smaller, more vertical, and less filled with mini dungeons. All in all a much better experience than the basegame for me, someone that loves exploration most.
I found myself exhausting the game to get to find items that helped the build I liked, but every time I started to credit the game, it would do some ridiculous rugpull that made me regret giving it more of a chance. I'm the first of my friends who beat elden ring, and I have the lowest opinion of it by a long shot. towards the end of the game, I felt myself playing in order to make the game shut up, that's how I was thinking of it in my head. just ramming my fist up every mechanic in order to make the game stop doing nonsense. the environmental and art design is just so incredible that the jank and obtuseness does not seem justified. it was a gameplay experience of accumulating cynicism punctuated by moments of absolute wonder and awe. I became mistrustful of the game itself, of its weird hitboxes and timings and misleading stat #s and health bars and its dumb gotcha moments dozens of hours into the game. but the game did allow me to clench onto every stupid power combination available to swirly and humiliate the dumb a.i. I dont remember this cynicism in DS1. I never felt like I was slicing my way through everything to get DS1 over with, the process and adventure was sort of its own reward. DS1 had these lock and key chains of causation, but elden ring is this decentralized sprawl of "content" that doesn't tend to interconnect meaningfully. I was so disappointed by elden ring, by how I beat it, by how it made me question the whole concept of games in general.
If I want a fun RPG game, I'd play an actual RPG. If I want to play an action game, I'd play DMC. Elden Ring focus on/being praised for its combat is moronic at best.
@@duytran9086 punchline: if I want to play dark souls, I'll play dark souls XD. bunch of the assets in Elden ring are the same as DS anyway lol
I feel it's instructive to point out that when Miyazaki himself played a game like Elden Ring, he used every scrap of foreknowledge and aspect of aid inside the game (spirits, ashes, etc.) to cheese the game as hard as possible. There's always been significant cheese in basically every game they've made (with Sekiro being something of an exception, since your items/moveset are relatively stripped down/focused compared to the breadth of weapons and options in Souls games). The git gud mentality didn't really make sense in 2011 and doesn't make sense in 2024 with Elden Ring.
The games have literally always been relatively easy if you have an eye towards exploration, both in terms of build style and actual level exploration. It's really not that hard to extrapolate some of the design philosophy from what's in the game. Dunno where anyone in their right mind got the idea that a game series full of underhanded strategies, invisible walls, esoteric sidequests, extravagant level design, an absolutely nonsensical amount of swamps and freaking Sen's Fortress was in any way "just about the boss fights and combat".
In Sekiro, they spelt out what the souls games have been trying to tell players with the Ashina Style.
"Git gud" has morphed over the years, it was originally not a message about a "proper way to play" it was about people who complained instead of adapting to the game (most of the time reviewers/journalists). The way people view the phrase and bastardise it these days is really frustrating and the worst part is that some people seriously believe in that bastardised mentality.
Do you think a community would praise Solaire and the Sunbros so much if they all thought that summoning wasn't the TRUE way to play and made you a little baby bitch? The souls community is so much shittier these days.
@@DemonBlanka You know "git gud" was all just trolling, right?
I can't believe he fell for it.
@@ghoulbuster1 it was trolling directed at people who blame the game for their skill issues. Now it's used to police the way people play the games.
@@DemonBlanka I'm aware -- my frustration with the phrase and the mindset is that I know people who've taken it seriously since Dark Souls 1's whole "Prepare To Die" marketing schtick. Like, you and I see to be coming from the precise same place. I'm just pointing out that literally no part of reality agrees with the people who take the mindset seriously, so I'm not sure where these people keep coming from.
19:26 as a console player this is my biggest gripe with elden ring, i want to play with my friends without having to resummon every 10 minutes
I don't summon generally. Not out of some weird arbitrary bullshit the community sometimes perpetuates. I just like the solitude. The freedom to say, Ooo, what's that? And not get wrangled away from my curiosity by people just wanting to go kill the boss
@@hindae085 there's nothing I'd like to do more than explore with my friends
@@lazyfish7675 Hell yeah!
That's part of why my brother never finished Elden ring and part of why I burned out. A good chunk of Elden ring is technically copy/paste, which is exhausting for completionists like me, who feel like we have to collect all the goodies and kill all the bosses each playthrough even if 80% of the game can be skipped. For him he wants to be able to co-op because it's more fun to explore with a buddy since the world is so big. However the zones are deceptively small and require lots of resummoning and the the constant flownof invaders make it go from "Let's take it slow and explore" to "Hurry up and make it to the boss, explore separately, and you can deal with that field boss on your own".
Wish we had that seemless co-op mod for console
I just don't summon in Elden Ring because I feel it makes the later Bosses Harder compared to just using a Spirit.
The Bosses getting a lot more health because you summoned a player or NPC means a lot more compared to the older games with the sort of damage they put out now.
The influences of GRRM’s thousand worlds series on Elden Ring are not to be ignored. I love berserk too but miquella is actually a reference to Bakkalon, one of the dark multiversal gods of the thousand worlds setting. Not only hat but the Glass Flower is literally just a scifi version of the founding of Raya Lucaria
Got a little too mad there about the Bloodborne shield description somehow being indicative of Fromsoft's disdain for shields, when shields are the easiest way to deal with the hardest boss in any Souls game (Promised Consort Radahn). Not that I used them myself, but dodging is obviously harder in that fight vs. blocking with fingerprint shield and poking with antspur rapier - so do they really hate shields?
Promised Consort fight is actually easier than Pinwheel with fingerprint shield its super funny
Bloodborne's shield is not representative of a deep seated hatred miyazacki had for a play style that uses a shield in previous or future games games, if it was then they wouldn't keep shields around.
It's supposed to a direct way of saying, "this game is all about aggression, it is different from dark souls"
It's not. Bloodborne is a way more mobile and aggressive game than Dark Souls. That was a tongue in cheek way of telling the player
I wonder how much of that is really on the translation of the item, too. for instance, in the original Japanese item text, it seems to be far more neutral in its description, claiming "the shield is good, but don't be overconfident".
besides, Bloodborne in general also has gun parries as a stronger focus, it's not JUST roll-spam
@@KumoKumiko Yeah, I've been playing BB after having played DeS, DS1, 2 , 3, Sekiro, AC6, ER and the thing that really sticks out is the gun parries in contrast to its fast dodge-heavy reputation. Most fights in the world you just outspace regular enemy combos and gun parry elite mobs, it's pretty fun.
okay even as someone who vastly prefers games like Elden Ring over Dark Sous 1, claiming the Dark Souls 1 failed at being the kind of game that it is based on what later entries in the series did is a special kind of stupid lol
True... It's illogical to say DS1 wasn't DS3 because... Well... DS1 was made first.
Elden Ring isn't perfect. There's the highest potential I see in its systems but none has yet to truly reach it.
I think he was addressing there people who got into the Soulsborne series with later titles, and then played 1 but didn't like it.
He spent a lot of time talking about people's mindsets about these games and his main point surrounded the fact that what makes a game better is subjective, while also acknowledging that, if not a majority, a loud section of the Souls-Community points to 3 as refining the formula set by the first game, so when they return to, or play for the first time, the first game they assume the game's motives, assume it isn't as developed - all based upon what they think the successes of 3 are. If he keeps talking with this language from that point he made to expand on the greater argument; that doesn't mean he buys into that mindset. He was building to a point; not subscribing to a belief.
He literally admitted to not liking 3 and loving the first game. He clearly doesn't believe what you think he said.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 It hurts that ER has a lot of potential with it's movement and crafting and finally having an ok magic system etc. But based off history, the next thing will be different enough but still not address the nightmare that is split damage negation, use a decent quick inventory system like MH:World or have element types that don't just fill up a bar or deal split damage and use a scaling system that doesn't lie to you.
Elden ring is worse game in the series
Das3 and ER made me realise that I never liked dark souls because of the combat, I liked it because of the atmosphere and world design. DaS3 and ER feel like they were games made by someone that just knew about dark souls from memes
This is a painful realization I've had to go through...more often than not. The creator(s) of things I love, did not like those things for the same reasons I did. It's happened with plenty of video game series, books, movies, youtube channels, etc...
It always sucks. Especially since, when they change the parts I like to emphasize the parts they like, they often don't end up with what they like either.
@@TheJesterInYellow not in the case of elden ring though. Michael zaki said its the closest hes been to his ideal game.
Fromsoft clearly liked DS3 though if they make Elden ring play off it so dang much.
@@jellydamgoodThat kind of proves @TheJesterInYellow's point though, no?
@@wilburforce8046 Not really since ER has functioning poise.
@@ghoulbuster1 not really for most of the weapons lol and radahn will stagger any armor type in the game.
Ds3 also had poise on some weapon arts.
came for the dark souls commentary, stayed for the david lynch impression
And once I finished the video it gave me an excuse to forget I saw the damn thing.
Crawl, on the floor, like a hollow.
@@ghoulbuster1 That would be so beautiful!
Miyazaki: I play my own games in my own way, taking any small advantage I can get because that's how I want to play.
Plague: Yeah I am just gonna completely ignore what you just said and talk with confidence about how you don't play your own games.
Demons souls was not miyazakis first game as director, it was his third
Also, he did not choose to work on DS3, he was assigned to the project before becoming company president. Immediately after becoming president, he chose to end the series with DS3.
Why do so many content creators in this genre speak with that sneering, smarmy cadence?
Because they are sneering, smarmy assholes
To piss you off. It worked!!!
Because they really think their opinion matters more than yours
I do have to wonder a bit here after seeing so many essays on Souls...
Why do the video essayists harp so much on people who do have the time, put in the time, or just have some talent at beating stuff like Sekiro or other From games? Like I get the idea of liking a nice and slow methodical playstyle but whinging about "tryhards" to make your point about how the current from games suck feels like a lame duck. I felt this way watching Noah Cadwell's Sekiro video and heck, its the same sort of energy here. As much as I hate the gitgud argument ad nauseam, I don't know if it's really fair to rag on the people who well, actually got good and adapted with the times and write them off as turbo coffee jockey tryhards or whatever while making the point about the good ol slow days.
That's my impression with this vid anyways. As for Miyazaki, the guy directed AC4, one of the faster playing Armored Cores so the seed for faster nutty gameplay was always there somewhere and I guess it sprouted post bloodborne.
People get their egos hurt playing souls games and think they just need to find the right words to explain why it's the some fundamental issue with the games design and fanbase. Other people either have fun or stop playing but there's a correlation between folks who feel the need to explain themselves and people who make video essays
you are so mad about the bloodborne shield lol
It's because it calls him out on how much he sucks and it rustled his jimmies
@@TizerakYT This has gotta be it tbh, especially with him randomly making the passive aggressive comment to challenge runners at 28:23 , "if you want to throw on a grain ring, strip naked and fight artorias with a broken straight sword to show off how big your video game pp is to your absent father you can"
Well...I imagine most people who do runs like that just enjoy challenging themselves, I personally only took the time to learn how to beat Gael without getting hit just because I thought the fight was really fun (plus that theme's a banger) frankly it comes across like he's salty that he doesn't have the skills or knowledge to do it aseell.
I love both games and look forward to being mad.
i like bein a little guy that fights
Just a lil guy
Every single souls game + sekiro is secretly about a 5'11 guy in a 6' world. Screw all that first flame/blood/ring etc bs, this is the real story
I realize it's the oddball of the lot, but Sekiro is the only FS game I've really loved.
The combat is just about the best I've experienced.
To me, Sekiro could’ve been an actual 10/10 game if it was slightly longer.
Until AC6 it was the first time they made a proper action game without all of the counterproductive carry-over design elements of Souls muddling things. I used to compare it unfavorably to Souls because I just thought of it as another Bloodborne-like, but Sekiro does its own thing and mechanically it does it with so much more polish and intent than anything they did between DeS and Elden Ring.
I think From's output would've been more interesting if they had built more of their systems from scratch around a game-specific concept like that. The basic format they keep repurposing from Demon's Souls handicaps them every time they want to make the games more action-focused.
@@kahir8642why the hell would you call anything a bloodborne like in the first place lmao
@@thegodofsoapkekcario1970I thought this for a while but with a couple of playthroughs under my belt I think it's the perfect length. If anything I think it's a little long - all the filler boss fights and dead end areas clog up what essentially could have been a perfect "boss rush" game, kind of like how people go through the DMC games in less than 6 hours.
@@sekiro_the_one-armed_wolf I'm using Bloodborne-like derogatorily to refer to From's shift towards fast-paced action games in Souls. DS3-like would work too. At the time I just expected Sekiro to be another variation of those games.
think when from software realized that people saw the series as the "Prepare to Die" game, is when they started to focus on the wrong aspects of what made the games great and it slowly lost its appeal (at least to me).
Right, that’s a pretty wise observation to note. I think that they really lost a sense for the Level Design being the focus, as well as perhaps even the lore & Narrative Harmony, or the Gameplay & Narrative complimenting one another as much. I really wanted them to either build on the world or explore entirely separate parts of it, or even be like FF and leave Lordran alone perhaps, just make a new World with similar yet different Themes and Subjects.
Am I stupid? Isn’t Elden Ring vastly less difficult and more accessible than Dark Souls?
Completely agree, from lost the thread of what made the original game great
@@Nyadnar feel like most people who say elden ring isnt difficult, simply watched a guide on what kind of broken build they should use to beat the game. which kinda feels like saying "this puzzle game isnt hard, you can just look up the anwsers online". at some point elden ring achievments showed that more people got the secret (almost impossible to figure out without a guide) ranni ending, then the normal default ending. which tells me that most of the people who actually beat elden rinh used a guide/walktrough, and anyone who didnt simply stopped playing before reaching the end.
@@NyadnarYes and no.
Generally the player power ceiling is much higher, and a lot of Elden Ring's challenge is loaded onto bosses and not world navigation. None of the dungeons are hard to explore and Torrent can bail you out of bad situations. Most enemies are a joke compared to the ones in Dark Souls being more threatening.
On the other hand, the bosses are by far and away the most challenging fights in the franchise. Their individual movesets contain a lot of extremely powerful and difficult to dodge moves. They have huge health pools, aggressive tracking, lots of roll catching, and feints.
Looking at the chapter titles, I think this is what Eli is going to be getting at. Elden Ring loads all of its difficulty onto the bosses where Dark Souls divided it into the levels and bosses equally. FromSoft got aware of their reputation as "the 100000 tries boss guys" and it has influenced their level design and boss decisions.
The analogy of not knowing the lyrics to a song and it taking a whole new meaning that is lost when you go and find the actual lyrics hits such a spot in my heart.
Super glad you brought up the idea of waiting for "Your Turn." It's my biggest issue with a lot of "hard" games is that you're so rarely given the ability to be proactive in fights. You're forced to react to everything the enemy does or eat shit and die. The only alternative is to seemingly achieve such game mastery that you're using speedrun strats to fast kill the boss and I'm just not going to bother with that when I want a more casual experience.
Your skill decides when it's your turn. The best players literally punish in between long chain combos on all of ER's hardest bosses. It's one of the best ways ER does skill expression... a bad player will struggle to get in good punishes, but get familiar with the moveset and you can be very proactive.
It's funny to see people complain about a basic fundamental mechanic in all video games, waiting for turns existed forever bro.
If you haven't already you should play Nioh. Every enemy including bosses have their own visible stamina bar so you know exactly when to get aggressive and when to focus on wearing them down. It's a big improvement over dodging three times only to get hit by a fourth swing because Fromsoft arbitrarily decided that's how long the combo string should be.
Well it's the fundamental quandry that many hard games end up in, unfortunately. I remember a couple of years before Demon's Souls seemingly the loudest out there were bemoaning the (at the time) recent Zelda titles for more or less enforcing one way to approach fights/bosses (even when that wasn't really true) just because it was "too easy" so "why do anything else but the optimal strategy". And really I think the same critique can be leveled at "hard" games as you mention. In fact, I think it's actually more true for harder games typically than for easier ones, because the defining feature you run into with high difficulty is restrictions.
In order to make things harder, at some point you end up introducing harsh restrictions to the player or absolutely ridiculous buffs to enemies (in more ways than just raw stats, too... talking tracking, hitbox size, combo length, etc.). And all of that necessarily leads to more restricted design, where player options (even when they on paper, visually look different) mechanically are almost identical. Because you really don't have any other way to evade/avoid certain attacks than the one pre-defined way. You don't have any other option but to do 6 evades on this or that combo before you can do anything else. And even then, you have that cool looking 5 hit combo on your sword that you can't even use, because the boss literally doesn't allow an opening to use it. What makes it so bad, as I'm alluding to here, is just that you have no leeway, unlike an "easy" game. So in a way... you actually just have more good/valuable choices in games traditionally viewed as "easier" (by the vocal minority) than harder ones, because the game isn't inherently blocking you out of doing them mechanically.
None of this is to say you can't still break things with enemies that have too little health (for example). The player can't effectively pull off a 6 hit combo if everything dies in 2 hits, after all. But, it's to say that mechanically (not necessarily always statistically) if everything is designed to catch the player out, and basically lock them in unless they "perform the one way to do things"... you're inherently going to have more restricted design than if it were "easier" by not inherently requiring most of that. But that's the kind of discussion that's, unfortunately, gotten cast out because it'd require more thought and insight and god forbid might be more interesting than calling other people whiners for daring to get tired of having only a handful of REAL mechanical options available for play.
@@hurrdurrmurrgurr I have played Nioh and Nioh 2. It's funny because I wasn't enjoying myself when I tried playing them like a Souls game and then did a complete 180 when I switched to a different weaponset and embraced magic because those things enabled me to play way more actively as opposed to just reacting to whatever the enemy was doing. Those are good games!
@desmondbrown5508 gets it and I think they nailed it on the point where the design for player abilities (and restrictions/limitations) need to mesh with enemy and encounter design or you end up with a pretty bad gaming experience. Ultimately, I think it gets boils down to managing player expectations. It is completely reasonable to pick up a cool sword with a cool ability and expect to be able to use it. But if the game effectively punishes you for investing into what's actually a trap option then that doesn't feel good.
I think Bloodborne ruined the way the devs looked at their games, in a way. Before it, the games were slow paced and you had to be very careful, but Bloodborne allowed you to play a lot more aggressively, as you said, and it rewarded that style of play. Then, after Bloodborne, you have DS3 and Elden Ring trying to replicate the playstyle of Bloodborne while giving you none of the tools. They go for speed and ask you to go for tiny punish windows against enemies with infinite combos and delayed attacks, but also give you Dark Souls rolling and slow animations. You don't get the really good parrying, you don't get quick steps with every weapon, you don't get rallying to keep you going. You're slow again, and you're fighting enemies that only a Bloodborne character could properly keep up with, and that's why DS3 and Elden Ring feel that much harder than previous games. The design changed, and you can draw a line between early Souls and modern Souls, and I think there are a lot of people who like both, but there's also a lot of people like myself who only like one or the other, with my own preference being the earlier games up to Bloodborne (except DS2, which has more in common with later games, rather than earlier).
I don't agree that open world is "giant meaningless content" compared to corridors, BotW and Elden Ring maps are very much crafted with thought with things to explore around every corner, not just scrambled together randomly.
He probably feels like he has to “lawnmower” the map like he said…. Missing 80% of the “content” which is intended….. just play the game and put it down
@@Grimmlockedmaking so players are intended to miss past of the content by simply ignoring it is terrible game design
@@kindlingking No it isn't. Secrets and hidden details are good game design. It adds replay value and lets a person who already beat the game play it again and experience new content they didn't the first time. A game that railroads you down a set path that never deviates is terrible game design.
Skyrim and its consequences have been a disaster for map and dungeon design in fantasy adventure games
@@AynniV but caves and small dungeons aren't secrets they're everywhere. And all of them are repetitive garbage. How does it add any reply value?
If I go through lets say 10 of these and find all if them bad, then see another one on the map or just nearby. I can can either go and explore it anyway hoping for good experience or give up and progress with the boss of the area. Which approach Elden Ring was designed around? Should I keep my hopes up and search for good cave, in the end checking out most if not all of them (and get burned out)? Should I give up on the spot and not even bother with exploring everything than isn't a legacy dungeon, because I know it's not worth it? Either way it's bad game design.
Also where did railroading come from? You know there's a world of difference between even Elden Ring and playable cutscenes? Some content could've been locked behind NG+ or if you chose to go with certain ending/questline. At the very least caves could've been actually good. But filling a giant open world with repetitive reused content and excusing it with "players aren't supposed to see big chunk of it anyway" is not the way.
As someone who used shield for entire Dark Souls 3... Shields are more than functional. If anything they are much easier to use and work perfectly on pretty much every boss, including shields being easiest way to defeat bonus boss.
Ah a fellow sword and shield user 👍
the constant insecurity and personal attacks on miyazaki when your takes are so weak and you're bad at every game in the series kills the point you're trying to make. the answer to 90% of your issues is either use one of the mechanics you're ignoring or grow up
Regarding the invasion system, a couple days ago I sat down and fully played through Ds1 for the first time. Multiple times throughout my playthrough (notably in undead burg, and anor londo) I came across invaders who were fully twinked out in the most absurd gear possible. The types of setups where someone who is not acutely aware of the intricacies of Ds1's online pvp system stands no chance against. My first thought upon seeing these people was just "damn I'm sure you are loved by your parents" before I was quickly killed without even managing to so much as scratch the invader. I love invasions, but the entitled players who decide to shit on those who are just simply trying to enjoy a game for the first time are not exactly people I want to be interacting with.
Now my DS3 and ER it’s the same thing but in the opposite direction, in DS1 if you wanted twinked gear you had to basically beat the game at as low of a level as possible, and for as much a sense people hate Soul Memory in Dark Souls 2 it was extremely effective at almost completely killing twinking at least before the Agape Ring was added). Then DS3 and ER come in with the fucking password system, want the Freyed Blade or Rivers of Blood at level 1? You got it. Want the Dragonslayer Greataxe or Blasphemous Blade for some meaty one-shots? All yours, just one community post or message to your buddy away, and it’s fucking bullshit if you’re a solo invader with any amount of integrity, especially since DS3 and ER’s Invasion *only* allows world’s with summons to be invaded. You’ll pretty much always be fighting against people with twinked weapons, assuming you don’t interrupt two players trading equipment at Hall Wall or First Step, which is so fucking frequent that it made me give up on DS3 and ER’s PvP entirely.
Das1 Remastered is especially full of those types of invaders. Rarely you'll get just some dude trying to engage with the system in an intended, healthy way ("What is intended?"), but the vast majority are just losers trying to feel good about themselves by having "technical opponents." It's the same thing as being a kid and your friend hands you a controller in a 2 player game he refuses to explain, then wipes the floor with you and brags as though he did something. It's just insecurity and internal anger being realized through a 'safe' form of bullying. They're children.
@@PlagueOfGripes In a sense thats why ER's opt-in system for invasions is better. The more I think about it, the more I like the fact I cant invade hosts by themselves.
@@MrRenanHappyit would be good if password summons weren’t a thing.
Miyazaki has already stated he is not a sadist, he is a masochist. You are completely mischaracterizing him by saying he doesn't care to die to his own creations. He designs the game because he wants to suffer. He designs the games as he imagines what it would be like to play them. He is designing as a player, not a developer. That's the key to the entire ethos of from software. The only reason he doesn't play them after release is because, like you said, he doesn't have the ability to change the game after it's finished. He knows all the tricks, what tactics work, where all the secrets are, there's less joy in that for him. But the idea that he's an outsider is just... It's incredibly disingenuous. He's not a pro gamer, but he is a player at heart, and that's what matters.
Yea he either completely twisted or misinterpreted that man‘s words because there’s no way that’s what he got from that interview
Wtf are waffling about lol
24:38 he literally says he's a gaming masochist that likes getting killed
Stop making shit up to complain about lol
@@inigo137and then later on he calls him a sadist that doesn't play his own games, along with the entirety of fromsoft? You ok bro?
@@inigo13701:15:00 to 01:16:00 yeah so just watch the video lol
This point and the odd shield comments. I was sat scratching my head over
As someone who loves Dark Souls 1, has mixed feelings about FromSoft in general, and has said several times that "the boss fights are my least favorite part of the game" to the bewilderment of my friends, it's nice to hear similar sentiments for once.
As someone who has said the exact same thing it feels nice to see a kindred spirit
yes, me too
Boss fights use to be a cool reward for a punishing journey through a level. Now you just steamroll everything until the fog wall, and spend 15 tries on every encounter.
I genuinely miss you being a big dark souls creator. I think I just miss you being a known personality. Your a legend Plague
I already heard Gripes thoughts on writing in his artgripe so let me precomment:
Grape says Elden ring traded the character driven stories and simple human tragedies for the sake of elaborate expodumped plot.
I coudn't disagree more, events like black knives night are a hotpodge of desperate characters making tragic decisions and sacrafices, commiting evil in the name of what they believe is right. Game encourages you to look at the events from character's perspective all the time, namely every NPC wondering "why would marika shatter" and cause apocalypse.
Take Gurranq/Maliketh for example, he's Marika's adopted brother that grew up with her from birth, completely loyal to her, he killed Gloam eyed queen and locked inside his sword her ultimate weapon. He is viewed as a monster who carries death and anihilation of the very soul to anybody who would rise against Marika, her fatefull guardian. Despite this, he was created by fingers that seek to control Marika, therefore he has inside him a death switch to kill Marika if she ever steps out of line.
During the fatefull night his sword gets shattered, and pieces of rune of death get stolen from him, making him fail in his duty and bring devastation. Overcome with guilt, he swears to never have death stolen from him again. In heinous act he grafts the sword to his very flesh. Currently he seeks to write his wrongs, leads a coven of hunters dedicated to eradicading zombies created by black knives night. He gathers the corrupted pieces of zombification mcguffin and devours them as it's the only way to dispose of them. But grafting death to his flesh corrupted him, he is compelled to seek and devour it all in neverending hunger, because of this he also voluntairly banished himself from society in fear of this hunger eventually reducing him to senseless beast. He is left in solitude, every night thinking about his sister Marika, what compelled her to destroy the very world order, why did she betray him without telling him anything(he doesnt know about finger death switch). He likens her burden of godhood to his hunger(which takes like, 5 paragraphs and 3 theories to explain properly).
Knowing all that his lines hit far diffrent.But it takes a freaking while to get to that point don't it? In Grapes comparisson he summed up quelaag's story in 3-5 sentences. Well, every character written by GRRM in elden ring has this much lore to them.
Elden ring's problem in my opinion is that it uses the same tools to tell it's story, while having 10 times more elaborate events and some actual complex characters. Because of this it gets much harder to figure out the whole picture, and game often gets too concerned about telling you the bare neccesities to comprehend the plot, instead of focusing on the character's place in it. It fails to provide that initial hook of the viewer to make them look deeper, while expecting much more complicated digging than ever. Vaati basically gave up on understanding this lore and mostly sums up other people's theories while throwing some superficial stuff of his own. I myself only got hooked thanks to Melina's voice actor going hard on her speech near frenzy flame, nothing intrested me before that.
4:56
"This was his first job as director"
He literally directed Armored Core 4 and For Answer before Demon Souls, do your research
Don't discount your game design ideas so easily just because they're contemptuous towards the current general gamer. Bennett Foddy clearly had contempt for his audience and he proceeded to create a new genre that attracted the kind of people that he probably hated and it reverberates to this day in the latest streamer rage bait "climb disparate props and fall for 20 minutes if you make a mistake" kind of game.
I don't even think the hypothetical game he described is lacking in general appeal, it just wouldn't cater exclusively to fans of the current Souls games. I'd play Plague Souls: Prepare to Look at Bricks edition so long as it was well made.
None likes those games, streamers play it because it's funny when they scream.
@@ghoulbuster1 If nobody liked them they wouldn't be magnets for speedrunning.
generally interesting video, but I tapped out in that last section about projecting onto miyazaki. you pull quotes from the interview where he SAYS he has gone back and played Elden Ring, and just generally misread everything he says to paint this picture of an out of touch sadist that you seem to really want him to be. kind of a disappointing end.
I'm the one loved dark souls 1-2-3 and Elden Ring . I genuinely loved every single one . Happy to see plague post more.
Your thoughts and preferences in regards to the Souls games heavily remind me of Matthewmatosis's video "The Lost Soul Art of Demon's Souls", which was a great encapsulation of my personal disappointment with the evolution of the series.
Needless to say a lot of your points about feeling alienated by the relentless focus on (lackluster) action mechanics and dodge-simulator boss fights instead of the immersive experience and tightly designed interwoven world really resonates with me
I'd say the difference is that Matthew actually likes bloodborne and thinks dark souls 2 is good, and thinks dark souls is better than demon's souls.
you need to remember that Elden Ring is not a "Souls" game, it's Elden Ring.
@@Ghorda9what it's called doesn't matter to me, it's the same application of boss fights and very basic combat mechanics being the main focus of gameplay as if FromSoft thinks this is DMC but now with the added problem that the concept of balance doesn't exist bc you can be severely under or overpowered relative to the main quest depending on how much you explore the open world.
If it bothers you for me to bundle Elden Ring as part of "the evolution of the series" just replace it for the evolution of FromSofts game design or something, but really despite not being called Dark Souls 4 or Bloodborne 2 it's clear these games are all of the same type (Sekiro is the only one that stands out, not sure if I'd say it is as well, I couldn't stomach more than a couple hours of it)
@@Ghorda9 you need to remember that Dark Souls is not a "Rings" game, it's Dark Souls.
@@Ghorda9 Yea, no, its literally just Dark Souls with a different name. Not saying thats a bad thing, but changing the names from Bonfire and Souls to Graces and Runes doesnt change anything. Its DS with an open world. Same combat, same style of storytelling, same style of environments, same NPC quests, same levelling system, etc etc. Its a Souls game.
This dude got so pressed over Bloodborne stating "shields engender passivity" in the game that is deliberately designed around being as aggressive as possible. It's not insulting shield players, it's the game telling you: "Hey, this isn't Dark Souls. This is Bloodborne where the best defense is a good offense."
He does come off as kind of butthurt huh?
He absolutely hated Bloodborne when it released. Using terms like "obnoxious" and "slap-happy enemies". constantly. Here he restrained himself.
Bro was hurt over that fr
Too bad that’s not how the game actually works due to the flailing spamming infinite stamina bullshit.
too bad the "fan base" has been making fun of shield players in elden ring using Bloodborne as a fucking dogma so he's right
The point of Bloodborne’s combat IS that you fight like a racing animal.
Can’t wait for this! While I enjoy Elden Ring for what it is, I feel the departure from what Dark Souls was is much larger than people admit or realize and I’m very surprised that it isn’t brought up more in current discussions.
I think most people don’t mind Elden Ring being different from Dark Souls because it’s not called Dark Souls. Making Elden Ring a separate world and story allows them to change things how they want without being locked to what people think Dark Souls “should be” (which I’m also expecting this video to have a lot of)
Not disagreeing, but I think personally I'd consider the jump between Dark Souls 2 to Dark Souls 3 to be more significant than the jump between Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring. For better or worse (in my opinion for the worse, as I personally prefer the slower combat of 1 and 2), Bloodborne really affected _everything_ going forwards.
I'd argue dark souls 2 was the biggest departure.
That's when fromsoft started to care more about boss fights and kill counters.
It's not brought up because a lot of newer From fans are rabidly loyal to their difficulty simulator. They have become drunk on the difficulty "git gud" marketing that any criticism of it is met with a flurry of "skill issues" from trogs who are missing the point. Or they're so drunk on the ideas they sell rather than the actual execution.
It's kinda like how of you criticize Elden Ring's lore for not making sense, they'll take the idea of how it's broken up to say that you missed the point of the story and then expect lore videos to explain it.
@@joshwenn989Oh it absolutely did. I love Bloodborne but I sort of detest how much it has infected From's design philosophy. Sekiro stood out as being a proper and unique evolution of the series while 3 and ER felt like they were odd hybrids.
Devs slipped a meta joke about shields in BB and this guy broke down into tears lmao
Fr, especially since shields aren't even bad in the later games, fingerprint shield and antspur rapier is the easy way people kill Promised Consort Radahn. Not a comment on the strategy itself, but the hardest boss in the hardest souls game is countered by a shield strategy so the devs definitely don't hate shields or they'd be as shit as that BB shield in the later games.
The irony of wanting to use shields on a game with guns.
Why are you such a bad person ?
@@danieltodorov7753 Natural talent.
@@YakuzaGoon Fingerprint shield, or any medium shield with Barricade Ash of War, is one of the safest, most effective ways to beat just about everything in Elden Ring. Even Malenia can't heal back enough to offset the damage from Serpent-Hunter + Fingerprint shield turtle strat.
While I do not like certain things about ER, there are things I adore about and I think is some of the best writing From ever had (which may be due to Martin) and that is Morgott who is probably my favorite character now From ever had and my favorite boss. Warning. Manifesto incoming:
Morgott is an EXTREMELY tragic character. The saddest part about Morgott is that he was legitimately blessed. Omen curse is no curse. It's a blessing of the Crucible which was later seen as a curse due to Golden Order. He may as well have been the most holy of all Demigods, but he was punished for it by being left for a time in the sewers and he hated HIMSELF for it. That is until he was released, most likely by the time Giants were still a threat since Godfrey knew him and he was banished after he beat the Giants and other enemies of Erd Tree. He also uses a Giant Crusher. A weapon that fell out of use after War with the Giants. A GREAT way to hide little story details, in Boss's moveset itself.
In his remembrance (japanese version) it's said that he didn't need anyone else's love to love in return. He just loved. He loved others matter what. And there most likely were people that did love him. One of them was Godfrey, but the other may have been his brother Godwyn... who was killed at the Night of the Black Knives. He tried to be a protector, he created Black Cavalry who we see in the trailer and may have been sent by him to hunt down the assassins (who also can be seen protecting the carriage with Malenia's Master's sword that goes to Haligtree), he created Sentry's Torches to protect his other siblings from Godwyn's fate, and yet... they all betrayed him and destroyed everything he loved and even then when he shows up in the throne room and calls his siblings traitors he still seems to have some actual care for them after all of that (calling Godrick by his title, being nostalgic with Malenia and Miquella, respectful for Radahn and mournful for Ranni) and he still felt great shame after staining their thrones meaning that he truly cared for them (outside of Rykard who may have taken more public role in killing Godwyn as part of his deal with Ranni which could have been start of his Blasphemy).
Morgott was a good person that was betrayed by almost everyone around him. By his family that started destroying their life and breaking their world, by the Erdtree which wouldn't accept him due to his "curse" and by Golden Order which indoctrinated him into hating what he was blessed with.
Morgott is probably one of the saddest characters in the game, if not THE saddest. A bitter person who has nothing, but hatred for himself and his family and the only thing he cares about is the thing that made his life miserable in the first place. And the only people that loved him are either dead (Godwyn who given that he befriended Dragons most likely cared little about curse on Morgott) or he never got to meet again after longing to see them again (Godfrey).
And the part with Godfrey is even more sad when you realize that Godfrey we fight before him is most likely created BY Morgott. It's possible that Morgott created that apparition because he wanted the help of his father, he wanted his father to be there and become Elden Lord, evident by him placing his crown on the throne in the trailer.
At the end when we fight him he is legitimately left with nothing, but the crumbling city and his duty which is built on lies of the Greater Will.
Pray for Morgott The Omen King, The Grace-Given. The True King of Leyndell and only worthy successor of Godfrey. A true heir. The only Demigod left that is worthy of being called Golden. Morgott the Golden Omen.
He is definitely the most Martin like character from Elden Ring as a whole. A perfect mix of Stannis and Tyrion.
A fellow Morgott enthusiast. Honestly, morgott’s story resonated with me on such a personal level that I don’t think any character in pretty much any piece of media has made me feel the same way. I know it’s an absolute meme but I genuinely went “oh he’s literally me”. A being born into a world that could do nothing but hate him but couldn’t bring himself to hate them back so he did the only logical thing left; join them by hating himself in a vein attempt at gaining even a crumb of their affection. A being who by all accounts didn’t do anything wrong but that doesn’t matter because he was born “wrong” and therefore nothing he did ever mattered. The only time he got to make any difference and got any respect required him to completely hide his identity because as soon as it would be found out no one would care about his deeds and his love, only that he was born wrong and therefore his actions mean nothing.
His story genuinely hurt to experience (in a good way though that’s some gourmet writing). I don’t usually relate to video game characters but he is basically the sole exception. God bless the true lord of lyndell, last king of kings.
In the DLC they reveal that Omenhood is a curse the Hornsent put upon Marika's people as revenge for Messmer's crusade. Not that it really changes what you said, I just thought it was worth clarifying.
@@carlschrappen9712 Actually it doesn't. By the time Messmer launches his Crusade Mogh and Morgott would have been already Born as Messmer knows of Tarnished people (who were a thing after Godfrey was banished) and I have my reasons to think Messmer was born sometime after war with the giants. In short I think Marika was cursed by Fire Giants. Her children then were Born with Red hair and dreams of Fire (Fire Giants may have wanted her children to Burn her Tree) and seeing that she removed part of herself which was Radagon who had curse within him (And I think he was Order part of Marika, leaving in her only Gold).
And I feel like Morgott and Mogh are just Hornsent. Given that Marika most likely used same ritual as Miquella did it is very possible she used Hornsent vessel for Godfrey (Hornsent made Enir-Ilim so most likely only one of them can be a vessel which explains why Miquella focused on getting Mogh). And that may be why they have so many Omen children. Genetics. And Hornsent and them thought they were some curse because medieval times not know how genetics work and Godwyn may have been with recessive genes.
There's a lot of more subtle stuff in ER's storytelling that people don't think much about. The Frenzied Flame is the biggest media literacy litmus test. So many idiots think it's a great cleansing or power fantasy for their tarnished. Nah it explicitly shows the god needs a host to take over. You're just letting another outer god do their thing and repeating the cycle. But this time you're a literal puppet now. These dudes don't even realize the the FF even melts away souls.
The clearest indicator of someone not getting it is if they think it will lead to rebirth and not a scorched earth tactic to kill life on the planet forever.
>having horns is a blessing
Hornsent propaganda will not be tolerated, we stan shamen
Oh sweet, I was really in the mood to revisit Plague's old critiques after beating Shadow of the Erdtree. A lot of the bosses, especially the final boss, made me think, "If im not liking this, Plague is *hating* this (if he's even still playing)."
I usually don't agree with perhaps 50 % of your opinions but I still enjoy listening to them because you are obviously a good talker but also you tell them in a way that generates curiosity and makes me sometimes reconsider and reflect my own views, without jumping to conclusions straight away. So thanks, I appreciate you.
Correction: 80 %
Awe, so he’s the anti-Ratatoskr? Where I agree with 80% of what he says but I can’t stand the guy 😂
@@kode-man23 I would love to see Plague on Ratatoskr's podcast; imagine the contrast of someone like plague who doesn't enjoy most of the FS games and the parts of DS1 he does enjoy is within the super minority of appeal that everyone else likes the game for. It's like if someone's first game in the sonic series was SA1 and they only like the robot walker stages and sees all the other aspects of the series like the old 2d games, and the speed+ plus level design as the terrible parts of the game.
I know you dont talk a lot aboit Sekiro in this video, but i really do feel like it solved the issue that the reliance on dodging created.
I think what Miyazaki meant by the shield jab in Bloodborne was not that he just hated shields, but rather, the "passivity" didn't create an exciting gameplay loop. Dont get me wrong, I am a shield enjoyer in DS1 as well, and abhor how horrendous shields are in DS3 and onward.
However, in Sekiro, while you don't have a shield, the building up of postire bar, while alao offering full damage immunity while blocking (at the cost of a quicker loss of posture) allowed you to play more passively, but also encouraged you to engage in a a more active defense: you are not dodging around and trying to fish for backstabs, but rather reacting to the enemies and finding openings, or making your own.
It's a shame From didn't lean into that combat system more. I think a game that replicates that tempo and style but focusing it around shields could be really cool.
Totally. I felt the same way playing Lies of Pi, I felt like this was exactly what I wanted from this type of game, so many defensive options and ways to play. It felt so rewarding to learn parry timings for my blocks,
The reason why they didn’t go further with the combat system in Elden Ring is probably because they were developed at the same time, and I would assume Sekiro’s combat was tuned much later than Elden Ring’s so the game would be delayed much further if they even tried implementing it in. Sekiro also feels much more polished than Elden Ring for some reason.
Your description of Sekiro is basically is a more accurate description of Elden Ring. The primary difference between the two is that Sekiro has fewer responses and they’re more clearly telegraphed. In Elden Ring the goal is to create your own openings but the avenues of response are more various. Sekiro is like rock, paper, scissors, but in Elden Ring you have to experiment more, figure out whether you can get light attacks in certain windows or heavy attacks or charged heavy attacks, directional dodging is more important, many attacks can be jumped for heavy attack punishes which low profile subsequent attacks, some attacks are better strafed than rolled etc. They even added guard counters as an additional aggressive response for shield users. The goal is to experiment to create your own openings according to the possibilities of your build. The bosses are designed around this sort of aggressive experimentation. I can understand why one would prefer the simpler system of Sekiro, because it’s more intuitive, but Elden Ring is not “badly designed” because people refuse to engage with its systems.
@@evilfungasI'll accept ER as a well designed game when it doesn't use cheap tricks like fly swatter attacks, incredibly aggressive weapon tracking, input reading, and wildly inconsistent telegraph animations that come across as unnatural. Not to mention the stuff that inadvertently weighs down on the enjoyment of the game, like refusing to fix the camera on huge enemies despite it being a joke at this point for a decade now, or an overabundance of particle effects that fill the screen and limit vision.
I understand ER's mechanics, but it doesn't change the fact a lot of its tricks have cause a backlash within the community and called them out for what they are: a cheap way to hike up the difficulty. Rather than find ingenuitive ways to makes challenges interesting, they opted to just hard counter reactive players by designing moves to pull fast ones over the players until you hammer away at it.
@@thegodofsoapkekcario1970 Sekiro is way more polished because they didn't make the game twice as long just for the sake of cheap novelty and "wow, game big!!!"
Who up plaguin' they gripe
It's actually sad that Plague never seemed to learn how to parry with guns in bloodborne despite it having the most forgiving window in the whole series. "waaah waaaah plank shield item description is making fun of ME"
Malding.
@@devinscott8680 rent free🤣
@@TrueMortalGaming Bald + malding. Don't be madge.
@@devinscott8680 is your brain broken?
@@TrueMortalGaming Yours seems to be. Mald.
I'm a filthy Elden Ring/DS2 enjoyer who loves survival meters and weapon degradation, and I think I'd love your hypothetical game. I hate dodge rolls, I think they look stupid and if they have to be in a game then they should look obviously magical to reflect that real people can't phase through matter. Bloodhound Step should've been the default animation for dodging, dammit.
What also makes Plague opinions really grating to agree with is that I watched him play videogames. Why is he constantly cheating and modding the games? Makes everything he says so much harder to understand especially if he does in fact have the power to change it via mods. That's why I can't take players who use mods seriously because they often have the most warped view on game design out of all people. They're crafting the idea of what the game should be and not the reality of what it is which causes many issues. So focused on this "Idealized Version" that it makes everything extremely hard to understand. Perfection certainly is a thing to strive for but you need to understand the expression "Double Edged Sword". The very weakness you claim it has could be the very backbone of why it's so strong. Too many Estus? How? Genuinely how? If you can get invaded at anytime plus the dungeons can get a lot bigger than I don't see that as an issue. Especially when you consider how expensive it is to kindle a bonfire. Then it's especially weird to understand when you consider Faiths biggest appeal has been the Healing spells. So in actuality you don't have 20 heals you really have like 30+ heals and if you start counting Humanity as a heal itself then we're easily reaching 50-100 Heals ready in the players inventory. But since Healing has a locked animation it creates risk when Healing. So like is it really that weird to give the player 15-20 heals when those heal attempts can be interrupted and even lead to your death? Plus the idea of healing is that you made a mistake. If you're healing you're already messing up not improving. You also neglected hiw Estus are not a full heal. Majority of players experience will be chugging at least 2 Estus to get a Full Heal. The cost is a lot more than just a singular Estus. Healing doesn't just mean you win especially when there's a huge action game aspect to the combat. If I tell you I need all 20 Estus to beat the game in my playthroughs you cannot say it's a skill issue when you actively use cheat programs on basically everything you streamed and recorded. Plus that goes to show how fruitless it is to openly critique videogames because their will always be a fan who loves it. But as time goes on I realized you're just the whiny piss baby you've been mocking all these years. Not realizing you're the very gamer you're trying to discourage from making dumb opinions.
Any negative review about art is already dumb and completely misses the point. I 100% mean this especially when it comws to videogames. Deadly Premonition is a "bad game" and we all know it's not a game for everyone but that doesn't mean it's wrong to love it or to even emulate it. One mans trash is another mans treasure. Why would you actively make people's lives worse by saying the game is not good? What did you even add to this discussion? This is why people tend to heavily disagree with you. It really just adds nothing to the entire discussion.
the bit about how people's expectations of "difficulty" have tainted the company's output honestly rings very true. i felt this especially when playing through Armored Core VI. that game is fantastic, but it inherits certain souls-isms and sekiro-isms that bog down the experience tremendously. you can see this in its boss fights, which *suffer greatly* from the "souls boss" archetype. they're trying SO HARD to be like modern souls or sekiro bosses to the point of being almost distractingly bad.
the worst part is that i am an armored core fan as well as a souls fan. so im seeing something i like become ... tainted by something else i like. in a way that doesn't mix well. like putting ice cream on your pasta ... it just ruins both foods in tandem.
Ok, but where does the argument of shields being useless in later Souls games come from? I'm a lifelong member of the "Plump Sort" covenant, and I always fat-roll my way through the souls games with a tank build on my first playthrough.
DS2 is a big "maybe" on that front, but in both DS3 and Elden Ring, greatshield builds very heavily neuter some of the tougher enemies and bosses in those games. My only issue with them really being, you usually don't get that many options, you either use the best shield in the game, or at the very most, the second or the third best, the rest are usually too weak to function if your plan is to mostly block your way through the game.
I mean in DS3 most shields either have horribly nerfed DR or are made much heavier than the same shields in the prior installments, and in ER shield tanking seemingly sucks your massive stamina bar dry immediately on tougher enemies, but those are what I can think of. I'm not a fan of either admittedly but I've kind of fallen off Soulslikes in general. I can't even really enjoy booting back up DS1 or 2 these days.
@@JakBed96there are talismans and ashes of war like Barricadr Shield that pretty much nullify the stamina drain from shields not to mention guard countering is one of the best offensive options in the game
This is the first I’ve seen people saying ds3 had terrible boss fights. In my opinion it’s the best one in the trilogy
he did say he wasn't a souls content creator and it showed immediately!
It's like playing Kojima's games and saying you didn't get any of the core story points it's trying to tell its viewer/player, like in Metal Gear
this is more of a conjecture but i think he meant he dislike the combat that makes the boss fights themselves bad rather than the bosses themselves
Bro the bosses disappearing while you fight them so you lose lock on sucked (as in prince lothric and freida)
@@zachjaybseazer94 not really, it's not hard to work around you get plenty of time to find them again before you need to dodge. you also don't lose lock on when he teleports, only for the big ranged attack.
It makes sense if you have a low gimmick tolerance when about half the fights in DS3 are gimmick fights. This is without counting "Hidden" gimmick fights like Darkeater Midir:
Midir takes an additional 20% max hp from a poise break crit making it poise break him 5 times an win and no other damage really matters.
Aka a glorified gimmick fight which makes the final DLC half gimmick and half normal bosses like the base game.
You know it’s a good gripe video when people who usually agree with you found some things to disagree with.
Like gee wiz it’s really hard for you to understand why people want rule in a game when a game is literally just a ruleset.
Recently, I beat DS1 for the first time.
For me, what I loved about the game was the melancholic atmosphere and subtle elements of horror mixed with hazardous exploration.
I un-ironically suck at the games combat, and I love how scary and frantic the game can feel in the heat of the moment when you are caught off guard. It makes the exploration aspect of the game all the more rewarding and thrilling.
Those aspects of the game lend credence to the idea that you are a foreigner to these lands. That the adventure has stakes and consequences.
My favorite moment in my play through was accidentally coming across the secret passageway to ash lake. Delving deeper and deeper into the roots of the world before I came to that primordial lake with ageless trees, and the Hydra. It felt like a genuine, awe inspiring, spiritual experience. None of the boss fights hit as hard as that moment for me.
If I were to design the game I’d want to play, it would set a lazer focus on those elements. A game where you are exploring an alien world with subtle hints at a grander narrative, with a focus on more horror and survival elements.
Although the game is obscenely unfair at times, Fear and Hunger comes pretty damn close to my perfect game. Seriously though: Dark Fantasy Horror is a genre that isn’t explored enough in my humble opinion. The medieval era was all sorts of cursed, and I’d love to see that expanded upon in future games.
It amuses me how much overlap our "perfect soulslike game" has considering how different our tastes are.
I like how halfway into the video I had to pause to have a long introspective conversation with myself about what I like and get out of games only for that to be the moral of this hour long video.
I normally like Gripes his videos alot and while this one started enjoyable it ended up feeling like putting other people in boxes to justify his own opinions. He seems vaguely aware of this but i think he missed the mark alot
Dark Souls 3's bosses have a strange case where, once you see some of the original intended boss orders, some things begin to click for why its boss quality flip-flops a lot. For me, Pontiff Sulyvahn was SO peak as a boss that, after his defeat, the bosses after him seemed abnormally not as grandoise, interesting, fun, or even challenging in many cases. Later on, i learned that he was originally supposed to be the game's final boss according to his file names, which also explains why even after his defeat so many things referencing him are still showing up: those are all things that were supposed to continue hyping him up for a big, grand finale of the ages, but him becoming reshuffled into a midgame boss results in all of those items after him being "Oh hey, that dude i killed is still being referenced a ton. Wonder why?". It also explains why most players had a middling impression of the game's finalized final boss, the Soul of Cinder, because...it's a fun fight albeit 90% of that fight is literally just references to other material and characters. In other words, it's not a final boss against a character who has been slowly built up and learned about like every other Fromsoft title (Allant, Gwyn, Vendrick/Nashandra, Gehrman, Genichiro/Ishin, and Radagon), but a literal walking pile of fanservice that isn't even a character. It isn't a grand culmination of a figure whose in the game's narrative is a larger-than-life legend who you're catching up to, it's a big meta reference flimsily pretending not to be.
And the result is that it kind of messes with the narrative since you kill the game's main antagonist at the halfway point, yet still hear about him despite his relevance being done. That would be like fighting Gwyn at Anor Londo instead of Ornstein & Smough as the big midgame boss: who or what within the Dark Souls 1 cast could possibly replace him as a character regarding narrative presence and relevance as the final boss? Well, no one can. And Dark Souls 3 for some reason wrote and designed the narrative for that to not happen, but then did it anyways despite the entire game obviously being designed for that not to happen. Sulyvahn was so integral in his role that Fromsoft straight up couldn't write a replacement character as the replacement final boss that made narrative sense, so they just dropped in a giant easter egg whose just a bunch of nostalgia characters crammed into a suit of marketable armor. It doesn't even make sense for it to exist either because every other Lord of Cinder burnt themselves without having to deal with this thing according to their own stories so why is it randomly popping up against only the player? The narrative was written explicitly so that Sulyvahn as an opposing character who has his clutches in every inch of the world would come in and attempt to stop you for his Age of the Deep, so haphazardly trying to replace that after all the groundwork for this setup has already been placed makes the final part of the narrative unsalvageable so a nostalgia boner was dropped in and somehow pulled off not getting canned by the playerbase.
That's a very interesting revelation that puts a lot of things into perspective. Years after beating Pontiff I still remember him as one of the hardest bosses for me in DS3. Soul of Cinder, on the other hand, I barely remember exists. To me he's a very forgettable boss because there's no build up to him, his fight isn't particularly hard or interesting, and hell he's not even a character. He's just an amalgam of a melee dude and a mage and some Gwyn sprinkled on top.
This begs the question why did they pivot away from Pontiff being the final boss
I would have at least appreciated if 3's narrative had something different, but I was always of the opinion it should have been a prequel, as it undermines the point of the first game by stating what happens afterwards, just for the sake of a sequel. But the pressure to succeed after 2 "failed" (but didn't) is how you get 'memberberries and the desire to not do anything too out of line.
I never see enough people acknowledge Sulyvahn’s misuse in game vs in narrative, so I greatly appreciate this comment
Pontiff was never going to be the final boss, you're misunderstanding the situation... the character model for an entirely different character was reused for him, while his own model was renamed to "Aldrich, Devourer of Gods". The final boss before Soul of Cinder was implemented was "Old King of the Eclipse" or something similarly named, and its story would be closer to the Lothric and Firelink plotlines rather than Irithyll's.
Bitching about the wooden shield description is such a sensitive gamer moment. It's obviously a self-deprecating joke from the devs. There's nothing more embarrassing than thin skinned gamers whining their usual "How dare the devs joke at our expense, their illustrious clientele. Yikes, bad business move, you wont get any money from me" (then buying the game a week later on G2A as usual).
My biggest ‘gripe’ is with how the series has gone fully mainstream so now newer fans and older fans are all just arguing with each other about the direction the series should or shouldn’t take and why one game is better than another. I think its time FromSoft go in a completely different direction with their games for a while, their Action RPG games have been played out coming to a head with Elden Ring.. and I say that as a person that Dark Souls 1 is my favorite game of all time and DS3, BB, Sekiro, and ER I also love too I will play anything Miyazaki makes any genre and I play all genre’s too myself I did long before I was a FromSoft fan. Theyve played this whole experiment out its time for something new. Once these games that were niche have become mainstream you know the innovation stage is over. Let the copycats make Elden Ring clones for the next decade so ‘omg open world wow!’ normies can keep playing games like Elden Ring that will likely completely miss the point outside of combat mechanics while FromSoft innovates with new artistic beautiful experiences that should likely not have mass appeal initially because innovation in art typically isn’t met with mass appeal praise. For example, say what you want about Kojima, but at least he’s an artist that tried something different with Death Stranding. Miyazaki is an artist, he needs to challenge himself with a completely new project.
Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Armored Core 6?
@@sirrockemsockem5465I haven’t played AC6 yet , Im working on my backlog of RE4 remake and a couple FF games atm, but I watched a friend stream it for a couple hours it looks incredible. Sorry I can’t really have an opinion on it
I also dislike the community infighting, but - unfortunately for us - this is a problem which seems to reliably pop up around games when they become a series (specifically, when they change, seek to become different, build upon the first game using different systems, direction, tools, etc.).
I've seen this schism happen to Dragon Age, Fallout, and even something seemingly smaller like COD Zombies. All for different reasons which can be as simple as "we want to keep the IP fresh" to complex reasons like "the project was bought after the creators went bankrupt."
@@blackhabits6408 Yes, I do remember vividly the backlash when Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker was shown to the public on release and the noses upturned in disgust that one, then later with Breath of the Wild. These generational series go in wildly new or different directions along their lifespan do always incite tribalism. Final Fantasy was only good in the pixel era, no it was good in the PS1-PS2 era, no its better after FFX, no its best as the MMO FFXIV that turn-based crap is outdated.. said so many people along the way when its me over here being a Final Fantasy fan the whole way through since the 90s and enjoying all of them for what they are because they're all different experiences each with something special and a unique story to tell and gameplay to enjoy. Its just painful for me to see the rift and opinion slinging and the way too now common thanks to Elden Ring 'you're just a boomer Dark Souls player you got nostalgia glasses on you don't matter we're the new generation now Elden Ring is our game now' because it wasn't nearly this bad even on the release of DS3, FromSoft or at least the souls series has been a household name to the more hardcore gamers for a while but I think Elden Ring brought it to 10x the audience that even that somehow and when everyone is rushing in it kind of makes me now want to rush toward the exit... Anyway I just have to come to terms with the fact the souls community as I remember it from a decade ago is gone since ER brought in so many more people and their voices drown out the voices of the community I originally connected with, but at least we have these pockets of the community still left tied to OG members from way back when. I can also just put the twitter, the youtube, and all that down and just enjoy all the games on their own without having to connect to the community that's probably for the best except in the few exceptions like this thread and pocket of pre-mania souls fans here.
@@MetalSlimeDrummer Agree with everything, but the final fantasy analogy is terrible. It's pretty widely believed that the golden era is FF6 through FF10. (Almost) Nobody says it's best as an MMO, best after FFX, nor best in pixel era. A more common point of contention is whether the series is terrible after FFX or not.
Gough in DS1 actually had his helmet painted with tree resin by the villagers so he couldn't see anything.
I said it in the chat, and while I respect your opinion on the series, I think it does ultimately come down to, "I have a difference of opinion on what the series should be than the devs do, and the devs have shown it's not a fluke or mistake that they're making the decisions they do because they double down on the things I don't like with each game showing it is in fact the intended design".
That is the deliberate thesis statement of the video.
That was indeed the point I was making, yeah. This is what they want, even if it's not what I or others want.
@@kahir8642 My point is, I don't think FROM's decisions are bad, they have a vision and they're sticking to it. For every boss that attacks by spazzing out and having 15 hit chains, the game also gives a player who's willing to crunch the numbers the ability to delete that boss before they get to fight back. Plague may not like the arms race of numbers but that is who the games are being made for now.
And just on a personal note, I like big numbers games so I have 0 issue with the arms race FROM has introduced. I've never understood the "git gud" crowd who insists you didn't really beat the game if you don't win naked with a club, I don't understand tryharding based around handicapping yourself because I come from the MMO world so for me, tryharding is to optimize as much as humanly possible for that last 0.5% dps increase and unlike in souls, NOT doing that is what makes you a casual because your "fun" builds is holding us back and wasting our time so you dont get invited to groups. So the idea that the casual is the one who optimizes and tryhards more is baffling to me.
I've had this issue with more and more series over the years, sucks everytime
Bro took an hour and 20 minutes gassing up mid because an item description made fun of him 10 years ago.
Snoyborne is still the worst souls game meant for genderblobs or spazzes who got filtered by sekiro
@@Ayahuasca98 those arent real words, they dont exist
@@Ayahuasca98>Snoyborne is still the worst souls g-ACK
@@yuggoth777 wait I mean glory to Yharnam. I fear the old blood.
@@Ayahuasca98why are Bloodborne haters like genuinely fucking brain dead? None of these words make any sense
I almost uninstalled Dark Souls 1 too, when I ran up against the Kapra demon.
What that brought me back was my brother, who was also just discovering the game, telling me about the master key. Yeah, I had to restart, but at least I could skip the boss.
If we weren't playing it together I may have never finished it.
Why is it that people who don't enjoy difficulty for the sake of overcoming a challenge must always strawman the perspective of people who do enjoy the challenge as doing so out of some self-indulgent egoism? I think the answer is likely rooted, at least in part, in insecurity. I mean, someone who is so upset by being hit even once in game, as was stated in the video, must lose his mind at the prospect of getting hit and killed over and over for hours on end. To me, that's just practice, though. We learn through repetition, and if I can clear a boss with few or no repetitions, I've not had to learn anything, and there's no joy in that. The process of getting better is fun, and dying is part of that fun. Most people who do challenge runs just genuinely enjoy the process, and the moment to moment gameplay.
Honestly, though, the more I listen to this video, the more I realize this guy is just not a good player at all, and is mad the games are catering more to the people who have improved through practice, and need something that isn't braindead. Saying DS3 enemies are so quick that it's not reactable is actually laughable. There's a million videos you can find of people who are middle of the road players doing just fine; he's just bad, and doesn't want to spend the time it takes to get better. Trying to say the devs are insecure and need players to die a lot is funny, cause you're only going to die as much as he's suggested they're insisting upon, if you're actually just terrible at the game. My wife, who never played video games until pretty recently, dies way less in Elden Ring than is asserted as expected, in this video, even when she doesn't use spirit ashes or magic.
Ye, I'm not sure this guy has even played the modern games like ER, it's the easiest one for casuals with no ability to play considering the copious amounts of cheese in it from step 1. The community practically coddles these types of players now. This is why I prefer critique videos from verifiably good players, even if I disagree with the critique, if it's a player who's no-hit the game I know for a fact it's not a 'mad because bad' critique like basically this entire video (The jester of juice critique video of SOTE is one that's more interesting because it's coming from an actually good player.) I'm a middle-of-the-pack player myself, and I've beaten ER and Shadow of the Erdtree solo without cheese, along with multiple other fromsoft titles, so it just baffles me when people think their reflexes are too shit for these games, they need more self-belief.
Also, an entire section seething about Fromsoft's bias against shield players because of the Bloodborne shield description, when shields are so fucking strong in ER that you can trivialise Consort Radahn with them, it's just hilarious.
@@YakuzaGoon Yeah, the bitterness present in this video is insane, and I doubt it would be there if he wasn't this bad, and mad about the game expecting more from him.
Insecurity drives too much discourse in this series. The best example perhaps being all the ER players who feel it important to constantly paint Spirit Summons as just another tool. It's almost taboo to even say that Summons destroy AI and boss design because it's too hurtful for insecure players.
@@aryman6589 I'm kinda sad the summons even got included. They're a cool idea, but it just trivializes all the bosses. Some of the summons can even just solo, like the video of the guy spamming Heal From Afar on the Golem Smith Ash to kill Consort Radahn. Didn't even have to engage with him. Most bosses can be trivialized with strong builds that don't include summons, so what's the point of the summons, when the AI just doesn't work well with multiple targets, and there's plenty of cheese without using them?
@@aryman6589 My theory is It's their most mass market game which results in a ton of new players using mega busted summons or builds, probably while knowing Fromsoft games have the reputation of being hard so they want that feeling of beating a 'hard' game while barely engaging mechanically with the bosses. This muddies the waters in discussions alot which is my main gripe. At least in Sekiro you know if someone beat Isshin they had a baseline level of competency in the game and you can assign some level of weight to their opinion on the boss fight, in SOTE someone can beat Radahn and it'd be hard to know if they were actually any good at the game. (e.g. was it a regular solo/no summon kill, was it a 1 shot cheese, was it summons and greatshield poking etc.)
Gonna be honest i rarely comment but this video was so horrendous and pompous i had to
"Thats a thing the games never fixed." Gets said a lot for a guy who clearly has zero experience with Elden Ring, which fixed several of your complaints.
Just to add to Dark Souls 2. The thing that drew me in is the idea of BIGNESS. DS1 is a small kingdom and something happened OK go ring that bell. Dark Souls 2 is about this whole weird liminal space where kingdoms and empires and peoples have risen and fallen over and over, together with your very personal story of being an undead trapped in this liminal space, between life and death, losing your memories and your humanity, and you need to embark in this whole journey to find a solution for your curse, if there is even any. It makes you feel small in such a large and old world. I like that vibe a lot, plus Majula is peak.
By the way, I think they tried to recapture a lot of this vibe in Elden RIng, with varying degrees of sucess.
Miyazaki that old man is yelling at the building again, "release the pre 1.04 patch dogs"