There's a video on RUclips of a specialized shop who's making a part for the Apache helicopter that they're tapping like 10-32 threads in Inconel 718. Can you imagine that? The CNC they have is purpose built for that. It goes into an does what he calls "peck taps" where he's tapping a quarter of one thread and immediately reverses and then goes back in to cut the next quarter thread. It is moving at 6000 mm/s and is so fast you cannot see it with naked eye. It just sits there tapping these parts all day long. If I can find the link I will post it back here.
I know it's 10 months later, so I apologize in advance but if you can find it I would be very interested in seeing that. I've tried to find it myself but had no luck. Cheers
@@scottwatrous the chips look like they're cooling off as they're flying, notice how you can't see any red sparks rebound, so it's probably just leaving a powder on the machine.
Titan, Mate, I love your style. I'm a micro manufacturer numpty no nothing CNC bloke. I make a living and am happy with that. I just love to learn what you have to teach.
Congratulations. You show that it is possible to push the limit in every machine. It doesn't matter how big or small it is. The important point is that the same philosophy must be applied to everything to be successful! Thank you.
Love your videos, titan you gave me inspiration to continue with cnc machining. I'm a junior in highschool and placed second in skills usa for CNC technician. (Both programing a lathe and mill)
The first problem is the depth of cut. Chips were unable to evacuate near the top. The second problem was vibration, it chipped on the cutting edge and game over, a rigid machine is required for ceramic tools. Just my opinion. I have machined a lot of Inconel 625, 718, Hastelloy, Waspaloy, and some Numonic 90, 80a, all were very hard, not annealed, but with old carbide tech. You guys are amazing what you are doing today ! Put us old school guys to shame. We could never cut that much off that quickly.
I have to use a 3 inch ceramic shell mill every once in a while where I work. I get a lot of visitors that stop by my mill when they’re walking by because everyone likes looking at the sparks haha
It seems the issue on the first test was that the spindle motor couldn't handle the cutting load, so as the cut continued the spindle got slower and slower, which in turn causes the cutting load to get higher and higher. A vicious circle until the load gets so high either the tool breaks, or the work holding let's go (or until Titan presses feed hold because he doesn't want his spindle motor to burn out lol). So when Titan said, the machine wasn't powerful enough, he was refering to the max power of the spindle motor. In this test, the smaller tool means lower cutting force and therefore no drop in RPM. I did wonder if the intermittent cut was helping with that at the start of the video (giving the spindle a little time with zero load so it could spin back up to speed), but even once it was into cut around the full circumference the machine was able to just keep going. Nice! Titan, I just found your channel a few days ago and I'm really enjoying it. I'm an ex machine programmer/setter/operator but work in IT now (I still miss actually making stuff). I'm impressed with your work ethics and massive passion for manufacturing. Keep the videos coming - great work!
Thanks for the nice comment Mani :-) I was originally a CNC guy, but started working as a quality guy for a group of manufacturing companies about 16 years ago. They asked me to work on a 2 year software project about 6 years ago, and have been extending / expanding that project ever since so I just kind of ended up here as a result of that. I'm really enjoying the IT stuff too though, so all good.
It's like any machine, the people who have problems yell louder than the people who don't, and all machines can have problems. You just have to be realistic with your expectations on them.
My first machine was a tormach series 3 770. Ive done stuff with it that it shouldnt be capable of, and been extremely frustrated when it couldnt do simple things.
Before falling in Love with a Tormach machine. Understand what you are buying before you buy. If you can live with the limitations of ANY machine you want to buy then this might be enough of a machine for you. This is goes for any machine. They all have limitations. You just need to understand these limitations.
On HSS tools you have to use coolant because toolsteel is not that heat resistant. With Carbide tools it depens on Material and Milling strategy. In aluminium, copper and stainless you should use coolant, these chips tend to stuck at the tool. You can use air cooling in high feed milling with low stepovers, like shown in the video. The Material cools the tool and the heat will go away with the chips. If you do slotting or milling with high stepover and slow feedrate you wanna have as much coolant as possible to clear chips and hold temprature down. Air cooling is always better than no cooling.
The reason is that coolant will shock the cutting tool as it cannot actually keep it cool. This temperature change of extreme heating and cooling causes the cutting edges to chip and break off thus dulling the tool.
@@forrestgumpv9049 I agree Forrest + Shiznak. High Speed Steel (HSS) tools loose their hardness when they get hot (i.e. the hotter the tool gets, the softer it becomes), and so always need a good flow of coolant to stop the cutting edge from deforming / failing. Solid Carbide tools have much better hot hardness properties, and Solid Ceramic tools have truly spectacular hot hardness properties. There is a drawback of ceramic however; they really don't like extreme changes in temperature at all. They are so hard and brittle that such a thermal shock will cause them to crack / shatter (in exactly the same way a wine glass might shatter of you take it from the freezer and plunge half of it into hot water). The cold part of the material contracts but the hot part tries to expand, causing massive internal stresses which exceed the materials strength limits. Because the solid ceramic tools will keep their cutting edge really well at very high temperatures, it's best to just let them glow red, and run them without cooling at all (and therefore avoid the risk of thermal shock). Also, if your filming for RUclips, the coolant obscures the view. That's why in at least some videos, the coolant will be turned of even when the cutting operation would actually benefit greatly from having it turned. on.
I've always heard not to use coolant with ceramics. Then I tried some hard turning on the lathe with a ceramic insert and coolant. It worked just fine and lasted about the same either way.
Coolent should be used on most jobs using high speed tools. But carbide is what is mostly used these days. Some carbide tools can be used without coolant. Softer materials such as Aluminum/ Copper/ Brass should use coolant as chips will melt and stick To your tools and ruin them. Carbide inserts are mostly good without it when cutting steels. Ceramic tools are made for high heat and use no coolent.
I just noticed that you can see the tool holding pulling out of the spindle when it's running the ceramic cutter. Guessing the vibration + the helix angle is causing that. That's probably what was causing the extra load.
As Doug F (and perhaps others) noted, looks to the initial ceramic tool pulled out from the tool holder during it's last circuit. Compare position of the tool @ 2:11 vs. 2:17. Maybe 0.100 of pullout. This would have increased the load on the spindle as the bottom portion of the tool began to cut into material that had not been machined on the previous passes. As that gradually happened, the spindle began to lose speed, which lead to even more head buildup but the tool didn't break. The tool-holding failure just caused overload on the spindle drive on this low-HP machine. Wonder if it would have succeeded if it had been held in place? Given the price of ceramic tools, I'll let Titan and the gang figure that one out...
Ceramics are great because they don't feel the heat, but the part will. If you have a tight tolerance, say .0005 total on a counter bore or thru hole, something that you might use a boring bar on, I'm assuming you need to cool the part off before switching to that finished feature? Maybe a dwell with compressed air or coolant? Maybe an M00.
I'ld setup my percolating coffee pot I use for camping on it. Make 3 cups of coffee, drink all 3 cups of coffee, then grab some welding gloves to remove the part. But that's just what I'ld do. 😉
This is a great video . It would be interesting to show how advanced tools like ceramics can also be applied to more widespread/common materials like hardened steels and cast materials .
How is the heat in the work piece? Does the material get hot? As parts get near finishing, heat can bow/distort the part. If all the heat is in the chip, then this is pretty cool
Titan if you look at the second pass of the video at time 2:17sec you can see the depth of cut is too deep. Looks to be shanking out Did it suck out the tool?
I would not be surprised if that happened. Tormach mills do not have a great tool holding set up. Many complain about this when owning a Tormach. ( well the honest ones anyway ) The die-hard Tormach owners say it,s not true ?? Then they buy a HAAS, lol.
I've never run ceramics before, is the heat generation on the tool an issue? What I mean is, could the actual spindle heat up enough to cause damage to the spindle bearings? I've done some high feed milling where the cycle was several hours long and after the machine was done the toolholder was so hot you could hardly touch it even with air through the spindle on.
What kind of tolerances is that machine capable of holding in say stainless ? I have been heard some negitive things lately and wondering if im better to just down payment something more expensive ?
Thanks for responding . you know im not totally even sure what i want to make was kinda wanting to talk to my local shops and the one I work for now since they do machine rebuilding . I think id want to gear toward some type of job shop specialty ..... Im in grinding so everything is always tenths and jogh micro lol .
My issue is I cant decide on a goal to reach I just know i love maching and want to do more than just work at my shop , I almost and debating if i should tey some bench top manual ones to play around . I am nore familiar with cylindrical parts , but do milling to make tooling for our grinding jobs or the cutter grinder kicks some ass too i like that thing . any suggestion would be apreaciated. And I do have close to 15 yrs exp. So no stranger to machining any ideas or help appreciated I am a beginner at doing my own stuff / hobby. Kinda think if I spend big I want something. That will hold around .001 for the future . is it necessary ? Again beginner at these style machines but not clueless
@@xenonram sorry lol . im adhd. I was wondering what potential the machine has like can it hold say .001 tolerances ? And can I really use it to do real work that pays ? I don't expect to get rich but i want to start a small business some day I love to tinker and make things i need to do more i know i can do more in life and machining is what i like . what can the Tormach actually do ? Or since im not an expert mill guy would i be better to just get a used cnc or just a manuel machine . and Im looking for suggestions machines as well as what type of jobs are easiest to start out with ? ....And on another note I want to meet more cool people like on here with same interests I have It seems like no one I know wants to do anything more than they have too . Im dedicated to this field and to learning sorry for being all over thanks for your time everyone
you don't have to experiment, you can use a formula to figure out the power needed. Usualy you need to know Rm, Ap, Ae,Spindlespeed and torque. Play with the numbers.
Oh, I love you dude. you are just like me. you're the only one in the shop. your thinking, you say to yourself. okay everybody let's go get another tool. Halo, you're the only one in the shop. I do that all the time. i Got a smart crew don't I.
Bonjour Progrès incroyables .J'ai fraiser ( en 1972 ) des rainures de 5 mm avec des barreaux en acier rapide (.barreaux affuté sur une petite affuteuse Deckel) .outil à une coupe, vitesse de coupe 10 m/mn . avance 1/10mm/tour .Prof 1/10mm. affutage toutes les 10mn .1 mois pour faire 10 metres !!!
Conventional cutting is not recommended because the tool spends a lot of time rubbing on the material before it actually makes a chip. That rubbing causes extra heat in the part, which with high nickel alloys will work harden the material making it harder to cut. Rubbing or dwelling in nickel alloys is a major no no. I was having to mill small parts out of Monel which it high in nickel. I has to use round stock and use a chucker to part the pieces off the end of the bar. I had to be very aggressive during the part off because if I didn't maintain a high enough feed rate I could feel the material harden which led to the part off tool failing.
@@brandons9138 thank you for the info I haven't done alot of high nickel machining. I was curious about it because in some other materials conventional milling works better then climbing. But it's good to learn new things .
The Tormach Boys are High Fiving themselves after watching this. Everyone said Tormach Machines are Crap Blah Blah etc etc. The true fact is even the Tormach Boys out grow these machines in time wanting more. But i Totally agree with Titan about upskilling people. The thing that annoys me the most about people buying machines like Tormach is ? The same people complain about jobs going overseas but these same people buy these types of machines that are Made in China ?? It always makes me laugh when people complain about China. But they are the same people helping China build a stronger economy ????
For me i think tormach is still way too expensive. I think with that price it should have atleast twice the HP and small tool changer. maybe little bigger work area. I would not pay more than 3000 for tormach.
I feel like thermal expansion could make the final workpiece have a dent ...like on the outside it's still cool but the further in it goes the more it expands But when it cools down there is just a dent A recent video from this old Tony showed this problem on grinders it's really interesting
Alloy 718 is an age hardened nickel alloy, and gets its high strength and hardness from that age hardening heat treatment process. It's typically a solution annealing soak at 1021-1052°c for about 2hours, followed by the age hardening at 774-802°c for 6-8hours. Because this work piece is relatively large compared to the cutting tool, it will act as a heat sink and soak up most of the energy without actually getting anywhere neer hot enough to effect it's mechanical properties. I bet even after all that time in cut, it prob didn't get much over 100°c. The glowing red ceramic tool looks impressive, but not much of that heat energy is transferred into the part itself.
And for milling and turning experience more heat equals more distortion . I had plates of regular P class steel that After take a facing cut of 1 mm by 600/800mm of length It bows up 0.3/0.4 mm . After the routhing occurs to release the clamping on the vise and skim pass for finish . Or on the magnetic Chuck release the magnetism and shim below the raised area
@@SH-pc4xt Yes yes I know what you saw. But it's the tool holder. The spindle didn't move down. I think that this is what you saw moving down. tormach.com/tts-toolholder-er20-31829.html
TORMACH spindles are garbage imho. I got a 12.5hp full atc iso30 installed on my pm25 Glad to say i can run proper tools and decent speeds and have the power to cut at specific feeds/speeds lool.... I really need to switch to servo drives though.
Funny how that works. "We need ventilators," but I haven't heard of a single company that has retooled to manufacture them, or to manufacture parts for them. Something is fishy with the whole ventilator thing. I hear that we currently have no shortages of ventilators, and I hear there are warehouses all over the country with hundreds of thousands of working ventilators, but who knows.
@@xenonram The thing that the US government needed was disclosure not ventilators. Keeping there people in the dark has cost America more than just lives.
you guys really do not know how you give me many idea every time you made video, for example you do know aerogel? material that stand extreme heat but easy to break? cause this ceramic stuff maybe why not extract aerogel using ceramic base and BOOM like you always say, easy to shape, able stand more extreme heat and best of all it's light as air it self... BOOM alloy for re-entry earth atmosphere?
Yep, I cut Inco alloys for 20+ years. You need rigidity, DOC, and High pressure coolant. You don't piss with it, you got to hit it. If you don't.... it will quickly show you who's boss.....
On CNBC there was a story about Ortho Clinical Diagnostics. A machine to aid in Covid-19. I help make parts on CNC for this machine!...BOOM!..GOOGLE IT! CEO EXPLAINS antibody test.
Of course you can. You could probably get into one for a couple hundred bucks a month to start a business making some trinket. Look at the Keybar guy and Grimsmo. That's what he did. And there are hundreds of other people who have started small businesses with a Tormach in their garage.
People at Home Depot and other places pay hard earned money to go to college... I am just saying that you can now get a machine for less than $3k and teach yourself the industry using our Free Academy... it’s already Happening. And when your done you own a machine instead of wasting it on a college
@@TITANSofCNC People need the will, before the money. To easy to say. I can,t afford it. In most cases this is just an excuse. You need passion to push yourself first. Titan. Not everyone likes the your way of approaching machining or making video,s. But i can only say i LOVE your Passion. Happy guys like you are here to help the people who want to learn.
When Nicole comes back she’s going to be like “ What the #@!%& happened to my machine ! “. ;)
MAJOR credit to you Titan for coming back to do a part 2 on this! Many youtube channels would not have. Thanks again!
There's a video on RUclips of a specialized shop who's making a part for the Apache helicopter that they're tapping like 10-32 threads in Inconel 718. Can you imagine that? The CNC they have is purpose built for that. It goes into an does what he calls "peck taps" where he's tapping a quarter of one thread and immediately reverses and then goes back in to cut the next quarter thread. It is moving at 6000 mm/s and is so fast you cannot see it with naked eye. It just sits there tapping these parts all day long. If I can find the link I will post it back here.
I know it's 10 months later, so I apologize in advance but if you can find it I would be very interested in seeing that. I've tried to find it myself but had no luck. Cheers
I would have hit emergency stop the moment it got red hot and sparks went flying :-)
I was wondering that as well. Could it be he is making us think?
Ceramic inserts always run like that - look up some other videos its super fun :)
Ceramics love in fire... and don’t feel heat.
They are chemically inert. It’s normal
My concern would be the rest of the machine whether it likes all the fire spray. Like those way covers...
@@scottwatrous the chips look like they're cooling off as they're flying, notice how you can't see any red sparks rebound, so it's probably just leaving a powder on the machine.
Titan, Mate, I love your style. I'm a micro manufacturer numpty no nothing CNC bloke. I make a living and am happy with that. I just love to learn what you have to teach.
Congratulations. You show that it is possible to push the limit in every machine. It doesn't matter how big or small it is. The important point is that the same philosophy must be applied to everything to be successful! Thank you.
Love your videos, titan you gave me inspiration to continue with cnc machining. I'm a junior in highschool and placed second in skills usa for CNC technician. (Both programing a lathe and mill)
The first problem is the depth of cut. Chips were unable to evacuate near the top. The second problem was vibration, it chipped on the cutting edge and game over, a rigid machine is required for ceramic tools. Just my opinion. I have machined a lot of Inconel 625, 718, Hastelloy, Waspaloy, and some Numonic 90, 80a, all were very hard, not annealed, but with old carbide tech. You guys are amazing what you are doing today ! Put us old school guys to shame. We could never cut that much off that quickly.
It chipped on the cutting edge? That's a bold assumption.
Can you do a video just about feeds, depth of cuts etc and all the other calculations and considerations that you do.
I have to use a 3 inch ceramic shell mill every once in a while where I work. I get a lot of visitors that stop by my mill when they’re walking by because everyone likes looking at the sparks haha
It seems the issue on the first test was that the spindle motor couldn't handle the cutting load, so as the cut continued the spindle got slower and slower, which in turn causes the cutting load to get higher and higher. A vicious circle until the load gets so high either the tool breaks, or the work holding let's go (or until Titan presses feed hold because he doesn't want his spindle motor to burn out lol). So when Titan said, the machine wasn't powerful enough, he was refering to the max power of the spindle motor. In this test, the smaller tool means lower cutting force and therefore no drop in RPM. I did wonder if the intermittent cut was helping with that at the start of the video (giving the spindle a little time with zero load so it could spin back up to speed), but even once it was into cut around the full circumference the machine was able to just keep going. Nice!
Titan, I just found your channel a few days ago and I'm really enjoying it. I'm an ex machine programmer/setter/operator but work in IT now (I still miss actually making stuff). I'm impressed with your work ethics and massive passion for manufacturing. Keep the videos coming - great work!
Why did u changed ur field sir???u hav great knowledge...
Thanks for the nice comment Mani :-) I was originally a CNC guy, but started working as a quality guy for a group of manufacturing companies about 16 years ago. They asked me to work on a 2 year software project about 6 years ago, and have been extending / expanding that project ever since so I just kind of ended up here as a result of that. I'm really enjoying the IT stuff too though, so all good.
I did not read your whole comment but understand most of it ?
The answer to any problem involving a Tormach ??
Is that.
It is a Tormach.
718 is amazing steel. I do it all the time but with carbide.
I've heard some not so good things about Tormach, but this video alone has made me reconsider it.
Either way that's pretty impressive.
It's like any machine, the people who have problems yell louder than the people who don't, and all machines can have problems. You just have to be realistic with your expectations on them.
My first machine was a tormach series 3 770. Ive done stuff with it that it shouldnt be capable of, and been extremely frustrated when it couldnt do simple things.
Before falling in Love with a Tormach machine.
Understand what you are buying before you buy.
If you can live with the limitations of ANY machine you want to buy then this might be enough of a machine for you.
This is goes for any machine.
They all have limitations.
You just need to understand these limitations.
@@MachinistJohn
Thanks for your reply.
John Saunders. LOL.
Retired master plumber. All trades are in need of workers. I commend you on your efforts.
As a non-machinist engineer, I'm always wondering.. when to use coolant, air or nothing? It's something you never talk about in the videos.
On HSS tools you have to use coolant because toolsteel is not that heat resistant. With Carbide tools it depens on Material and Milling strategy. In aluminium, copper and stainless you should use coolant, these chips tend to stuck at the tool. You can use air cooling in high feed milling with low stepovers, like shown in the video. The Material cools the tool and the heat will go away with the chips. If you do slotting or milling with high stepover and slow feedrate you wanna have as much coolant as possible to clear chips and hold temprature down. Air cooling is always better than no cooling.
The reason is that coolant will shock the cutting tool as it cannot actually keep it cool. This temperature change of extreme heating and cooling causes the cutting edges to chip and break off thus dulling the tool.
@@forrestgumpv9049 I agree Forrest + Shiznak. High Speed Steel (HSS) tools loose their hardness when they get hot (i.e. the hotter the tool gets, the softer it becomes), and so always need a good flow of coolant to stop the cutting edge from deforming / failing.
Solid Carbide tools have much better hot hardness properties, and Solid Ceramic tools have truly spectacular hot hardness properties.
There is a drawback of ceramic however; they really don't like extreme changes in temperature at all. They are so hard and brittle that such a thermal shock will cause them to crack / shatter (in exactly the same way a wine glass might shatter of you take it from the freezer and plunge half of it into hot water). The cold part of the material contracts but the hot part tries to expand, causing massive internal stresses which exceed the materials strength limits.
Because the solid ceramic tools will keep their cutting edge really well at very high temperatures, it's best to just let them glow red, and run them without cooling at all (and therefore avoid the risk of thermal shock).
Also, if your filming for RUclips, the coolant obscures the view. That's why in at least some videos, the coolant will be turned of even when the cutting operation would actually benefit greatly from having it turned. on.
I've always heard not to use coolant with ceramics. Then I tried some hard turning on the lathe with a ceramic insert and coolant. It worked just fine and lasted about the same either way.
Coolent should be used on most jobs using high speed tools. But carbide is what is mostly used these days. Some carbide tools can be used without coolant. Softer materials such as Aluminum/ Copper/ Brass should use coolant as chips will melt and stick To your tools and ruin them. Carbide inserts are mostly good without it when cutting steels. Ceramic tools are made for high heat and use no coolent.
Coming from openbuilds cnc w/ a makita router, the fact that a torimach is a puny cnc to him is mind blowing 😂. I hope to be at this level one day
I woulda hit stop too that thing red as hell lmfao your a beast
What was the temperature of the incone when a the tool path finished?
I just noticed that you can see the tool holding pulling out of the spindle when it's running the ceramic cutter. Guessing the vibration + the helix angle is causing that. That's probably what was causing the extra load.
How much of the heat is transferred to the tool holder and spindle?
titan, how much wear did the end mill incur from this test? what percent of the tool life is left?
As Doug F (and perhaps others) noted, looks to the initial ceramic tool pulled out from the tool holder during it's last circuit. Compare position of the tool @ 2:11 vs. 2:17. Maybe 0.100 of pullout. This would have increased the load on the spindle as the bottom portion of the tool began to cut into material that had not been machined on the previous passes. As that gradually happened, the spindle began to lose speed, which lead to even more head buildup but the tool didn't break. The tool-holding failure just caused overload on the spindle drive on this low-HP machine. Wonder if it would have succeeded if it had been held in place? Given the price of ceramic tools, I'll let Titan and the gang figure that one out...
Is there a reason why theres no liquid being used to cool the workpiece and tool down during operation? Or does this machine not have that capability?
Ceramics are great because they don't feel the heat, but the part will. If you have a tight tolerance, say .0005 total on a counter bore or thru hole, something that you might use a boring bar on, I'm assuming you need to cool the part off before switching to that finished feature? Maybe a dwell with compressed air or coolant? Maybe an M00.
Thanks Titan. Happy Easter to your shop and your family.
Any bets as to how long it was before that chunk of inconel was cool enough to touch? 😁
Another cool video. Thanks, Titan.
I'ld setup my percolating coffee pot I use for camping on it. Make 3 cups of coffee, drink all 3 cups of coffee, then grab some welding gloves to remove the part.
But that's just what I'ld do. 😉
This could be a dumb question, but wouldn't thermal expansion become an issue when your bit becomes that hot.
Fun stuff titan glad you came back to it
This is a great video . It would be interesting to show how advanced tools like ceramics can also be applied to more widespread/common materials like hardened steels and cast materials .
How is the heat in the work piece? Does the material get hot? As parts get near finishing, heat can bow/distort the part. If all the heat is in the chip, then this is pretty cool
Titan if you look at the second pass of the video at time 2:17sec you can see the depth of cut is too deep. Looks to be shanking out Did it suck out the tool?
Was the part cut with just one cutter or did you use sister tooling for the part?
wish you had more videos like this
With the first bigger ceramic tool it seems to creep out from the toolholder.
I was thinking the whole tool was pulling out @ 2:15
I would not be surprised if that happened.
Tormach mills do not have a great tool holding set up.
Many complain about this when owning a Tormach.
( well the honest ones anyway )
The die-hard Tormach owners say it,s not true ??
Then they buy a HAAS, lol.
Question? What Tool was Most Efficient? Time?
I get it but I don't think a Home Depot sarary will allow most people to buy one of these machines.
cool masters....
Get yourself a cnc under €500 and try maching the stuff on that
Gr8 vid Titan! Pleasure to watch how technology can go extreme !
Exelent video!!!! Thank you.
I actually work primarily with inconel i didnt realize people struggled with it so much! Lots of airfoiling over here
Do you have any old Haas machines?
Can I machine aluminum compressor scrolls with the 770
the MX Model with the BT30 would probably be better as the TTS collets might not have the best retention forces in comparison to BT30 12K spindle
Work hardened as it got hot?
what usually needed to easyly to be hired bieng a cnc machine .....; titans master. iwish to apply someday ...
Do ceramic cutters need coolant, is it better or without it? Always love the teaching man gives me hope in manufacturing for the art and craft
Never use flood coolant with ceramic, the mixture of heat and cold will crack it :)
@@Donkusdelux aahhh thank you appreciate the input 👍🏼
This is unbelievable 😳😳
I've never run ceramics before, is the heat generation on the tool an issue? What I mean is, could the actual spindle heat up enough to cause damage to the spindle bearings? I've done some high feed milling where the cycle was several hours long and after the machine was done the toolholder was so hot you could hardly touch it even with air through the spindle on.
There is no heat on tool as ceramic is chemically inert.
That looks so cool gotta get me one of those machines need a garage or shop first
You should do some of these progressively more difficult test cuts on your new XSTech Router (i.e. wood, alum, steel, etc, etc).
Yeah! Let's try inconel and ceramic endmill on that XSTech!
What kind of tolerances is that machine capable of holding in say stainless ? I have been heard some negitive things lately and wondering if im better to just down payment something more expensive ?
Hehe nothing crazy. That's the price difference. But if you have wide open tolerances tormach can qork
Thanks for responding . you know im not totally even sure what i want to make was kinda wanting to talk to my local shops and the one I work for now since they do machine rebuilding . I think id want to gear toward some type of job shop specialty ..... Im in grinding so everything is always tenths and jogh micro lol .
My issue is I cant decide on a goal to reach I just know i love maching and want to do more than just work at my shop , I almost and debating if i should tey some bench top manual ones to play around . I am nore familiar with cylindrical parts , but do milling to make tooling for our grinding jobs or the cutter grinder kicks some ass too i like that thing . any suggestion would be apreaciated. And I do have close to 15 yrs exp. So no stranger to machining any ideas or help appreciated I am a beginner at doing my own stuff / hobby. Kinda think if I spend big I want something. That will hold around .001 for the future . is it necessary ? Again beginner at these style machines but not clueless
@@Jg-ni2qz what is your question? That was kind of long and convoluted, and I'm having trouble figuring out what you want to know.
@@xenonram sorry lol . im adhd. I was wondering what potential the machine has like can it hold say .001 tolerances ? And can I really use it to do real work that pays ? I don't expect to get rich but i want to start a small business some day I love to tinker and make things i need to do more i know i can do more in life and machining is what i like . what can the Tormach actually do ? Or since im not an expert mill guy would i be better to just get a used cnc or just a manuel machine . and Im looking for suggestions machines as well as what type of jobs are easiest to start out with ? ....And on another note I want to meet more cool people like on here with same interests I have It seems like no one I know wants to do anything more than they have too . Im dedicated to this field and to learning sorry for being all over thanks for your time everyone
Wow that was amazing. Does that heat transfer to spindle?? And if so, wouldn't that cause some future problems??
Ceramic is a terrible conductor of heat, so not much makes it to the toolholder.
@@highvoltagefeathers nice to know, something to work on. Thanks
Can you test out multi axis on this machine ?
you don't have to experiment, you can use a formula to figure out the power needed. Usualy you need to know Rm, Ap, Ae,Spindlespeed and torque. Play with the numbers.
Weldon shank holder? You aren't concerned about runout?
Oh, I love you dude. you are just like me. you're the only one in the shop. your thinking, you say to yourself. okay everybody let's go get another tool. Halo, you're the only one in the shop. I do that all the time. i Got a smart crew don't I.
This may seem super basic, but could you do a demo running 440c? I cant seem to find much info out there on machining it
440c the knifesteel?
Bonjour
Progrès incroyables .J'ai fraiser ( en 1972 ) des rainures de 5 mm avec des barreaux en acier rapide (.barreaux affuté sur une petite affuteuse Deckel) .outil à une coupe, vitesse de coupe 10 m/mn . avance 1/10mm/tour .Prof 1/10mm. affutage toutes les 10mn .1 mois pour faire 10 metres !!!
Thank you titan!
would there be any difference in conventional milling vs climb milling with both set up the ceramic and the carbide on a lower powered machine ???
Conventional cutting is not recommended because the tool spends a lot of time rubbing on the material before it actually makes a chip. That rubbing causes extra heat in the part, which with high nickel alloys will work harden the material making it harder to cut. Rubbing or dwelling in nickel alloys is a major no no. I was having to mill small parts out of Monel which it high in nickel. I has to use round stock and use a chucker to part the pieces off the end of the bar. I had to be very aggressive during the part off because if I didn't maintain a high enough feed rate I could feel the material harden which led to the part off tool failing.
@@brandons9138 thank you for the info I haven't done alot of high nickel machining. I was curious about it because in some other materials conventional milling works better then climbing. But it's good to learn new things .
I wish I could mentor at this shop!
why doesent he cool it like the harvi so it wouldnt get so hot ?
LOL! Your tool holder is pulling out of your spindle. You should have purchased the BT30 spindle.
That's right. I didn't notice it until you mentioned it, and I have a Tormach (1100). My eyes were glued to the tip of the endmill at first. lol
The Tormach Boys are High Fiving themselves after watching this.
Everyone said Tormach Machines are Crap Blah Blah etc etc.
The true fact is even the Tormach Boys out grow these machines in time wanting more.
But i Totally agree with Titan about upskilling people.
The thing that annoys me the most about people buying machines like Tormach is ?
The same people complain about jobs going overseas but these same people buy these types of machines that are Made in China ??
It always makes me laugh when people complain about China.
But they are the same people helping China build a stronger economy ????
Are these endmills solid ceramic or ceramic coated?
Solid. MSc industrial has them on their website listed at 368$ a piece
For me i think tormach is still way too expensive. I think with that price it should have atleast twice the HP and small tool changer. maybe little bigger work area. I would not pay more than 3000 for tormach.
Awesome!👍🏻
How much does one of those cost? Kennametal don't show pricing for them but I imagine I would cry if I broke one. Thanks for showing what they can do!
Msc lists it for 368$
Would love to see this machine spit some Titanium chips :)
Titanium is butter compared to Inconel 718. It’s some of the nastiest stuff you’ll ever have to cut.
But the heat in the part induce change on the mechanical strengh of the work piece ? Ceramics Is only for routhing ?
I feel like thermal expansion could make the final workpiece have a dent ...like on the outside it's still cool but the further in it goes the more it expands
But when it cools down there is just a dent
A recent video from this old Tony showed this problem on grinders it's really interesting
Alloy 718 is an age hardened nickel alloy, and gets its high strength and hardness from that age hardening heat treatment process. It's typically a solution annealing soak at 1021-1052°c for about 2hours, followed by the age hardening at 774-802°c for 6-8hours. Because this work piece is relatively large compared to the cutting tool, it will act as a heat sink and soak up most of the energy without actually getting anywhere neer hot enough to effect it's mechanical properties. I bet even after all that time in cut, it prob didn't get much over 100°c. The glowing red ceramic tool looks impressive, but not much of that heat energy is transferred into the part itself.
@@Hobes128 Thanks for that explanation, I do concur with your reply.
@@Hobes128 because in the video Is a Little bit discolored on the surface ... And in other material the discoloration starts at 240°C
And for milling and turning experience more heat equals more distortion . I had plates of regular P class steel that After take a facing cut of 1 mm by 600/800mm of length It bows up 0.3/0.4 mm . After the routhing occurs to release the clamping on the vise and skim pass for finish . Or on the magnetic Chuck release the magnetism and shim below the raised area
Is it normal for ceramic endmills to look like that?
If so, would it be fine running them with coolant?
the tormach stopped because the spindle was being pulled down during the cut
The spindle?
Evidence? Yes, I think you're correct. Compare 2:11 to 2:17. Looks like 0.100" pull-out?
@@SH-pc4xt Yes yes I know what you saw. But it's the tool holder. The spindle didn't move down. I think that this is what you saw moving down. tormach.com/tts-toolholder-er20-31829.html
@@SH-pc4xt
Tool Pull Out ??
Welcome to the world of Tormach.
Pow?
You are fantastic person
Super 👍👌👌
TORMACH spindles are garbage imho.
I got a 12.5hp full atc iso30 installed on my pm25
Glad to say i can run proper tools and decent speeds and have the power to cut at specific feeds/speeds
lool.... I really need to switch to servo drives though.
meanwhile i am out here thinking if i smell a lil bit of smoke i should pull away
Have Titan not been contracted to make ventilator parts?
Funny how that works. "We need ventilators," but I haven't heard of a single company that has retooled to manufacture them, or to manufacture parts for them. Something is fishy with the whole ventilator thing. I hear that we currently have no shortages of ventilators, and I hear there are warehouses all over the country with hundreds of thousands of working ventilators, but who knows.
@@xenonram hundreds of thousands... Not millions? ;)
@@xenonram
The thing that the US government needed was disclosure not ventilators.
Keeping there people in the dark has cost America more than just lives.
That's crazy it works while appearing to be melting
That's kind of a beautiful cut.
I think even 15k for non commercial use is way to much it’s probably even 5k that is for a lot of people to much.
you guys really do not know how you give me many idea every time you made video, for example you do know aerogel? material that stand extreme heat but easy to break? cause this ceramic stuff maybe why not extract aerogel using ceramic base and BOOM like you always say, easy to shape, able stand more extreme heat and best of all it's light as air it self... BOOM alloy for re-entry earth atmosphere?
I'm an engineering working in manufacturing. And I want to learn what you are doing!
a year later. I bought my first HAAS VF2
Remember Titan, God is watching...... Remember, speeds and feeds is the common denominator to the material....
Awesome
USE COOLANT!!! Then it won’t look like it’s welding metal. It’s running hot.
Holy hell look at that burr!
The more you rub the material the harder it’s going to get 718 Is known to work harden
Yep, I cut Inco alloys for 20+ years. You need rigidity, DOC, and High pressure coolant. You don't piss with it, you got to hit it. If you don't.... it will quickly show you who's boss.....
Sweet :)
And now someone has clean up this mess!
That's what she said!
@@danl.4743 😂
boom boom boom
you're crazy dude)
Lol love it!
On CNBC there was a story about Ortho Clinical Diagnostics. A machine to aid in Covid-19. I help make parts on CNC for this machine!...BOOM!..GOOGLE IT! CEO EXPLAINS antibody test.
Google my shmoogle. Post a link lazy boy.
www.cnbc.com/video/2020/04/08/ortho-clinical-diagnostics-coronavirus-antibody-test.html?__source=sharebar%7Cfacebook&par=sharebar
So you think a guy working at Home Depot can afford a $15,000 CNC machine for weekend projects? You grossly over estimate how much people get paid.
Of course you can. You could probably get into one for a couple hundred bucks a month to start a business making some trinket. Look at the Keybar guy and Grimsmo. That's what he did. And there are hundreds of other people who have started small businesses with a Tormach in their garage.
People at Home Depot and other places pay hard earned money to go to college...
I am just saying that you can now get a machine for less than $3k and teach yourself the industry using our Free Academy... it’s already Happening.
And when your done you own a machine instead of wasting it on a college
@@TITANSofCNC
People need the will, before the money.
To easy to say. I can,t afford it.
In most cases this is just an excuse.
You need passion to push yourself first.
Titan.
Not everyone likes the your way of approaching machining or making video,s.
But i can only say i LOVE your Passion.
Happy guys like you are here to help the people who want to learn.
Who is going to machine INCONEL at a home set up ??
Me, a career journeyman machinist who wants to start doing jobs on the side at home.
你这是在磨吧
Take your pills
Hahaha
It failed because you where NOT running coolant
I just realized im talking shit and i dont know dick about machining lol