Hackers Testifying at the United States Senate, May 19, 1998 (L0pht Heavy Industries)
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- Опубликовано: 13 мар 2011
- L0pht Heavy Industries testifying before the United States Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs, Live feed from CSPAN, May 19, 1998. Starring Brian Oblivion, Kingpin (Joe Grand), Tan, Space Rogue, Weld Pond, Mudge, and Stefan von Neumann.
This is the infamous testimony where Mudge stated we could take down the Internet in 30 minutes. Although that's all the media took from it, much more was discussed. See for yourself.
This senate was more knowledgeable about tech 23 years ago, that the one who asked questions to Mark Zuckerberg last year lol.
true
It's all by design.
It was just a show against Zuck.
@Not Convinced you're a normie as well.
@@nateup6375 He's Not Convinced.
This was great to see a really enjoyable and civilised conversation between the government and it's citizens.Not something you see very often lol.
Hi
Yep i loved this video
These are not "its citizens". These 2 are agents of a foreign country that we cannot name here.
boy this has aged well
@@BobbySchwartz how ?
If I was asked if it was possible to make an unhackable system, my immediate response would be to ask "is it possible to make a building that can't collapse, a fence that can't be broken, or a boat that can't be sunk?".
Engineering is a game of risks. The winner of the game is the one who can make those risks immeasurably small, or at least smaller than his competitor.
Its possible to make a building that cant collapse, a fence that cant be broken and a boat that can never sink. its called using technology to its fullest and leaving monetary gain out of it.
Hamguy Bacon Yea, you literally can't do any of those things.
You can make a building that would be very hard to collapse, a boat that would be extremely difficult to sink, and a strong fence... but nothing is invincible. That's not how engineering works, man.
Take some classes in physics, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, and computer science. The same theme is repeated everywhere.
Hamguy Bacon "you can build indestructible objects"
That's the beautiful thing about the scientific process. If you really believe that it's possible, you have a method by which to convince everyone else. You can either build such an object yourself, or provide some concrete evidence that it can be built. Well... I use the term "can" figuratively here.
Meanwhile I can just say: "literally nothing in the universe is indestructible." Even what we now presume are the fundamental building blocks of matter are transmutable. Even the universe itself is in a state of flux. Nothing is static and perfect.
"your thinking is too primitive, you lack any imagination"
Well, either that, or I actually have the ability to think for myself and come up with methods of destroying that which you think is indestructible. For example:
"A boat's underside can be coated with nano material, this can cause the boat to be hydrophobic it will never sink."
Hydrophobia may add a small amount of buoyancy due to the layer of air that gets trapped at the surface, but it certainly won't prevent something from sinking. For most boats, the difference a hydrophobic hull would make would be negligible.
Interestingly, this is very similar to a misunderstanding that Aristotle had. He suggested that flat objects floated because they were flat... thus confusing buoyancy and surface tension.
"A building can be built using 3d printed materials which is much stronger than traditional building material and coated with mesh so that it will never fall."
Actually, 3D printed materials aren't what you want for a project the size of a large building. Our current 3D printing technology doesn't produce materials sufficiently resistant to deformations and stresses to support a structure of more than a few stories high much less produce a structure that is incapable of falling.
If you were interested in a building that was very difficult to demolish, you should probably look at technologies like graphene and carbon nanotubes... although those are still far away from being ready to apply in industry. Unfortunately even though they're among the strongest materials known to man, they're quite susceptible to destruction by a variety of means.
Also, if you're trying to build a building that "will never fall", you're going to have to consider the fact that the base of the building is resting upon the earth, which actively shifts around, causing buildings to collapse.
Of course, despite your idiotic accusations, most of my knowledge isn't from university I study much of this on my own. RUclips is a great resource to get you started, and you can recreate some of the projects you see on channels like Applied Science to see that they do, in fact, work as advertised.
So anyway, I'm happy that you agree to such an extent that you've decided to stop posting under my comment. It's greatly appreciated. 😀
Through *gain tools smart *on Instagram iCloud he was perfect I’m recommend him.thans to him
@@HamguyBacon - and unicorns can fly - they're willing to do so without monetary rewards - in case you miss the point - wishful thinking can't overcome engineering reality - neither can the combined wealth of the Forbes Top 100
The senators and the hackers are so charismatic and likable that this could easily be a movie scene. Great piece of history here.
This committee earing is A LOT responsible for the first steps that made White Hat Hackers respected and that made society realize their importance for the society itself. The entire mankind owes these men a big THANK YOU, even if they don't realize it!
Thank you L0pht for being so vocal and for all the security improvements you guys either created or forced to be fixed/created!
For those interested, Mudge (Peiter Zatko) went on to work for DARPA in 2010, for Google in 2013 but currently is the head of security for Twitter since 2020
I hope he destroys Twitter and leaves at the same time.
Thanks I been curious
@@randomrfkov why??? lol
@@thureintun1687 Twitter is cancer lol
@@thureintun1687 You were curious and couldn't take 2 seconds to type "mudge lopht" into google?
Wow, the senators are unbelievably receptive. Kudos to them too.
Right, they didn't follow the computer talk all the way, but I think they got more than enough to get worried.
L0pht...i credit you guys for advancement in this industry.... Kudos! Truly inspirational
Whoa!! I´m so impressed by You guys! Love that You try to help people and it show that hackers are so important to show us what risks we expose ourselves to.
Without You we mostly would be clueless...
Thank You for helping the whole world!!!
You talk about risk while owning an NFT where the jpg is hosted on a server, ahhhh 2022 irony
@@someup7786 a profile picture isn’t an nft lmao
@@P-7 the only people who use NFTS as pfp are people who own nfts.
@@someup7786 sure bud
20 years later and things seem to have only gotten worse: While the security tools and techniques may have drastically improved the largest sites on the internet are designed around undermining their users security themselves so that they can sell users data as their primary income source.
Was thinking the same thing.
Open Source has taken over too.
@@Stopinvadingmyhardware open source has been a gift what do you even mean?
@@vansh8173 I think they mean Open Source has BEEN taken over?
@@qtgiebel I don't think so, and it's a very odd thing to say, "open source has been taken over"
19 years on and the government still hasn't figured it out
@Not Convinced bro can u explain everything in simple words because I don't know anything about it i am from India my English maybe bad sorry. Can u please explain the whole point of the video
couple thousand more committees and they'll get it
lol wrong. These guys all work for the government mostly. Mudge helps run DOD netsec honestly lol
Government: "So you're telling me that all of our citizens are not secured? Say no more"
these are the gentlemen that raised me to be what i am today. THANK YOU FOR YOUR EXISTANCE!
Fred Thompson was an excellent representative, I'm glad he and the others gave the attention and respect that was deserved in this hearing. Not sure such a civil, respectful hearing without endless posturing and partisan primping would happen today.
It wouldn't and didn't. Few weeks ago the state had 5 top Executive in the crypto field. The hearing lasted 5+ hours of which I watched the whole thing. Most of the current Senate being power hungry mainly concerned with how to control this new tech. Only 3 Reps emphasized the US should not detour this tech by crippling regulations.
Never forget the clipper chip.
Imagine bringing down the whole internet in this day and age, society and social structure depends on it. The world would go crazy.
I would be more concerned with the financial implications than the world simply "going crazy". There is an insane amount of money traveling over the internet. If you crashed the internet the global economy would probably collapse.
yeah, its crazy to think about. Its like you are walking on one really weak bridge. It could collapse at any time and you know it.
J Feustel if you knew the first thing about what you were saying you'd know that's a lie. It would take bringing down under 50 backbone global bandwidth providers who supply the bandwidth to every business, isp, and provider on earth. Without the backbones there is nothing accessing anything.
J Feustel Drop a nuke on all the facebook servers and see if it still works.
Louthsk8er The internet (short for internetworking) is nothing more than the connection of multiple networks. The same way traveling across continents is intercontinental, traveling across networks is internetworking. In order to destroy the internet you would have to cut all of the hard lines running across the globe. That would take quite some time.
Senator Fred Thompson is the member of the committee leading the questions....he appears in Hunt For Red October as Admiral Painter and also acted in Die Hard. Quite a guy.
he was on Law and Order also, i believe
I knew he looked familiar!
@@tanveerhasan2382 Yes, I thought that too...
Thanks for putting this up!
I cant believe how receptive and well invested the jury was back in the days , i haven't been in the position and i wouldn't want to , but from my research i would say that we need more people in the senate that can get as intellectual towards the systems now a days , great interview well done , hat off , no many would do this now a days , now a days culture is all about profit , and we falling down slowly we don't know where the threat will come from but is there, and some APT will exploit that to the best that they can sooner or later .
As an older anti-Red/Black/Blue Tempest design engineer, I am very glad that some of this is coming out into the public. The public arena is full of "open-holes" that it is astonishing that more commercial operations and crypto/password data, are not openly hacked. Not surprising that many of these people are Hams, since Ham-radio is able to monitor and Hack these kinds of commercial sendings, via extremely simply means. This has been known for decades.
King pin you absolute legend . Lots of love from South Africa , it was moving to see where you’ve come from and nowadays helping people with hacking 🤝❤️
This is a good watch. Thanks for the upload.
Mudge's hair is so metal. \m/
🤘🏾 4 years ago there wasnt that emoji?
@@theboypresident2633 \m/
This feels like a pivotal moment in the tech industry. As someone whom has recently started his foray into cyber security, it's easy to see how important this was.
This is awesome, and still 100% relevant today.
This is a golden moment in the history for today's widespread commercialism and socialism aspects of the interweb; thanks for uploading sir!
Thanks for uploading this.
Excellent video, thanks for sharing this. Hard to believe this is 1998, almost feels like the 70's or 80's. Really awesome, amazing how much tech has changed since those days of AOL/CompuServe and horrible dialup internet... These kids today, have no idea how slow it was to use the internet back in those days lol...
Yeah I fist got online around 1995 and it was the norm to sit and wait while an image loaded line by line.... then the animate gif arrived and you'd watch it load individual frames for about 20 seconds before you saw a 3 second animation!
@@higgins007 You probably have no clue what you are talking about and just copied the top comment saying it took 20 seconds to load a 3 second gif
@@ThePeacePlant lol, ehm.. ok?
Just hearing you guys say L0phtcrack reminds of some exciting times. Things have changed quite a bit since then so its super cool to see a reminder of where alot of these things started
That was so awesome!!! Thx for sharing the clip!
You know you're watching an internet OG when the youtube upload was over 10 years ago.
Watching now in Nov 2020 Mudge being Twitter's head of security ( Great White Hats 🙌🔥) ... Very inspiring seeing, educative and cheers to the senate committee.
" If you looking for anonymity internet isn't where to be. "
Also here from Mudge's Pinned Twitter thread, recommending this video
No shit.Does he still have the hair?;)
@Not Convinced lol what
@@taggerung_ do you now know what twitter is? what are you confused about lol
@@NeonShadowsx im just amused by what he thinks about twitter
love the older footage =D thx for the upload Joe!
I had no idea! I watched intently for all of L0pht's releases in the 90s as a young teen myself. Great stuff!
23 years later and still relevant
No they failed miserably
I never indicated their success. Only the continued relevance in today's world.
@@buzifalus Ethnical Hacking is a degree now so I doubt it
15:30 you came for
Thanks Man
I enjoyed this immensely!
1998....damn! Where does the time go?
I was booting Slackware from a floppy disc, broadband wasn't even available in my area yet, and I was just another IRC warrior making the internet an inhospitable and unforgiving place for an ever growing number of fools looking to trade in their social lives for online forms of communication.
Not much has changed, except now I play nice. ;) Oh, and I don't boot Slackware from a floppy anymore.
Memories...thanks for the upload.
10 years later and this comment means more than ever
Wonder how you would react to this comment of yours 10 years ago
18:43 Anyone catch the massive foreshadowing?
Wow very interesting. Really well spoken and well behaving people.
Your an inspiration man wish I had the years of knowledge stored in your brain ha! Thank you for all you do sir.
15:28
That old fox is brilliant in the questions he is asking. I like his thinking very much ... "Would it be possible" ..
I have a huge amount of respect for this team and their technical expertise and knowledge. I've been in this industry (programmer, sysadmin, analyst) since the early 90s and l0pht are the SEAL team of geeks.
I know this is old footage but I wish they had had someone with them who could clearly and succinctly translate their knowledge into short, compelling stories that speaks clearly to the audience they were speaking to.
Stef is pretty damn close though. Well done.
Joe Grande (kingpin) hacks crypto ledgers on his youtube channel :)
Never realized John Lennon became a hacker. I thought Yoko Ono killed him.
i was about to say the exact same thing. we both are geniuses. Way ahead of our time.
_All You Need Is a Vulnerability_ 😂
What a great interview.
Mudge now works for DARPA and wears a suit :)
Six years later, has just moved to Twitter. Interesting times.
I bet he’s removing conservative accounts for questioning the forced clot shot and Democratic propaganda
@@rendezvouswithdestiny1717 yep
You guys need a documentary! This is very interesting.
"...and steffan." hahaha
I love how eager they are to tell the senate how much damage they could (easily) cause if a foreign government paid them off. As if they didn't have enough heat on them to begin with back then, lol.
24:20
@@TheCartWizard U're amazing
blast from the past.. I remember working at a datacenter company in Ma in 99 and on my first day sitting with another new guy who was grilling the HR lady for info about the swipe card manufacturer, security etc etc.. it was hilarious to watch this interaction as she couldn't really answer and was stammering.. then i found out who he was; Hobbit.
If Hobbit reads this just remember i wasn't the one who stole your server that day :)
I remember
@@ivanteter2024 are you really hobbit?
No I was just wondering if anybody would reply to that.. sorry 😔
@@ivanteter2024 :( :( :(
I remember
I love the fluent speech and word choice used by these men. Then listen to sports people dribbling there crap!
Hackers help keep the government honest!
O-oh, tak potrzebuję maszyny czasu! Lasencja za sen. Liebermanem jest absolutnie cudowna 😍
I’ve been watching this video since I was 20 and I’ll be 24 this year, crazy to see how ahead of the curve these guys were
This is amazing. This is literally chapter 1 of the story about how the NSA modified their mass surveillance program (called "Prism" at the time) to be able to collect data from systems secured from everyone else.
TEMPEST!!! Keeping the NSA on their toes since the early 60s.
This video pure gold.
I was a few years older than most at L0pht and learned a lot from them as a kid... I even had a shell account at L0pht at one point in my life.
Yep, the elephant is still in the room but the group did lay a fundamental foundation of perspective. Thanks
smart guys and well spoken as well.
That’s what struck me as well
Better than the stereotypical "hide behind closed doors and do whatever they want, antisocial" behaviours of a particular community
Great video!
Well thank you mate.
Yep, Senator Fred D. Thompson.
Also ironic is that he was the guy in the tower in Die Hard 2 as well.
They basically 'hacked' into the airport in that movie, so you'd think he'd know all about this stuff. ;)
it's so tragic that they had to explain it all with such analogies and make it all *spooky* to get proper attention. and yet again. >20 years later, windows 10 exists and it's mostly used desktop OS. let alone that we gave away all our privacy for free and we are kinda forced do it in order to work for an average company. obviously we need some kind of apocalypse
L0phtCrack! Wow! That brings back memories. I loved that util back in the early 90's
Watching this after 9 years it is uploaded
EPIC!!
This is sooooo today .... 21 years later
Most excellent!
ah its here! Thank you!
the dude in the back who just throws Y2K in there lmao
11:06 "Companies do indeed want to ignore problems as long as possible; it's cheaper for them." I can think of a few. 😉
I think this is the first youtube video I've ever seen without a single dislike.
How could this have any thumbs down. This is all good.
Assuming that all the guys are hopefully still alive, you guys should have a sort of "reunion" and get together and talk about what you are doing now, what you've been doing, etc. Current state of the internet and technology, etc.
the youngest, King Pin, is saving millions of dollars of crypto in crypto hardware wallets with forgotten passwords
Mudge worked for Darpa and Raytheon.
@@abg44 currently head of security at Twitter now.
I'd love to see the Russian equivalent of this.
Мы это сделали. Помните Дмитрия Склярова. Лично я был в центре группы на пересс конференции. Очки я не одевал, волосы слега подрезал. Выглядели мы так же и среди нас была девушка. Примерно около 2001 года.
These guys are real super heros! 💚
What a great time in history. Technology has come a long way, but still has many new protocols to come.
RIP Sen. Fred Thompson
+theprez98 How did you say "RIP Fred Thompson" 1 month ago when he only died 9 days ago.......?
+Oh Raez He died on November 1, 2015.
theprez98 Oh, my bad. I read somewhere he passed in December.
We've all gotten older but the thing that hasn't changed is that Mudge hasn't gotten any less well-spoken.
Wow I am glad I found this.
As an old computer engineer myself early Dos 1.5 / 2 0 Dos. Linux.
Early windows nt.
I found this very interesting.
A Big Thanks from England. 2022.
I did my bit in a big company at year 1999. 😃😃😃😃😃😃😃
I remember this group from my time hanging around phrack on irc. It brings back memories and nostalgia.
because network security was amazing in 1998
These guys are all balls deep in cash now Im sure. These antiheroes were my heros as a child and still are today. Its unfortunate that their genius has been co-opted for nefarious purposes but thats the price we pay for such quantum leaps in one lifetime.
@Bryan Medina im pretty sure i saw the dude named kingpin hack a guys trezor crypto wallet that had 2 million on it recently. I forget his real name but he glitch attacked it like a video game console.
@Missino Even Kingpin has aged this much. I cannot imagine where the others are
@@h3avym3tals69 this is his channel
i could listen to mudge talk all day
They all look proud of each other for being up there :)
VPN's and "2 Step Authentication" is a very strong defence against hackers......
I'm not sure how old the mentioned protocols are, 2SA is used a lot more recently though.
2sa is only strong if they get your password, it they use vulnerabilities it often doesn't matter
I have watched this numerous times, but never from Kingpins Channel!!
So what baffles me is, how this hearing established pretty lofty (pun intended) eye opening facts, and equally presented a slough of complicated issues, but how now is that, some 24 years later, certain corporate players are able to remain so far adrift from an accountability tether as to remain at large after having been clearly called out with exacted definitions of privacy and security crimes against humanity.... say Facebook, Google and Mircrocrap to name a few through ssung in as well now that they have released their latest update??? For me this is a rhetorical question and one I dont personal need am answer to, but society in general certainly seem quite asleep in some bliss as giants still walk with the strides.
Respect!!!
I like you kingpin. love you from India🇮🇳. I'm started to watch you RUclips video. Please continue to encourage us about the internet with the hardware
That's Fred Thompson.
He's very intelligent, and a good actor.
I like how the FBI provided them with water / truth-serum for this meeting
Intresting was the order they spoke in like much of a binary search on an array....
Hi, 2016 stopping by. Just had to point at your Palm Pilot and say
"Ha Ha!"
Secure wireless network that sounds like these guys were trying to create the concept of a wifi network but with phone lines and radio that's genius for back then.
This video is going hot on the web!
it's quite sad to see that politicians 25 years ago were more aware of how little they know about technology and seem eager to learn this new industry. Watching some of the recent big tech testimonials in front of congress (FB. TikTok, etc) clearly shows a regression to how these politicians understand technology. Very ironic as learning about thechnology, networking, security is more accessible now more than ever yet the people who represent us think they are capable in regulating an industry they do not understand.
The ad brought me here.
Me too! I still don't get what the ad was for tho
"Like buying a car and not able to open the hood" when talking about how windows is bad and unix is good
from that, instead of having windows open-sourced, we got our cars closed-sourced by tesla ev's
I knew that first man who talked and introduced the guys looked and sounded familiar! He's an actor too and was on the Roseanne show! Fred Dalton Thompson.
Level 3 hacker ^ (JK man ;P)
At least lookalike anyways
Kit Truong No it's him
I only knew him from Sinister at first. He was the sheriff dude.
You rock Joe Grand .... much love from India
"We don't know who is coming." Phrasing.
On a more serious note, was there any legislative follow-up to this hearing?