Gotta say, you machinist folks got skills. Can barely start my lawn mower, me! Talk about sweat! And you tear down an apparatus then put it back together - never mind having videos. Amazing. Admiration, machinist folks!
As always you awe the viewer with the ability to figure out what to do ti take ot apart and the tough p[art, how to reassemble the parts. You have enormous patients that makes things work out fine in the end.
It makes me wonder though, whether those very high prices are justified. I know, from having bought and made them, that bronze gears that size can be expensive, and worm gears are even more expensive. But this is really expensive. Since it’s a custom size, it’s going to cost. But from people I know who have worked on Monarch, and other lathes from back then, the prices are well in advance of what would be expected by inflation. Yes, they sell small numbers. But, as a former manufacturer, I can say that raising prices above what’s required, drives customers away. How many people, and companies, who would have otherwise rebuilt machines, decided to scrap them out instead, because of overwhelming parts costs? Quite a few, I would imagine. That doesn’t help those who want to rebuild a machine, and in the long run, it doesn’t help Monarch either.
I take my hat off to the machine designers who put all that functionality into a relatively small space. And with the hat I slap the person who messed up the automatic oiling system. Thanks again for showing and explaining.
Keith, I may be old school here. But I have built many engines in my day, no lathes, but automobile engines. As I watched you reassemble this very complex gearbox (dry for the most part), I said to myself, "Why doesn't he use STP?" I always coated all my engine parts with STP when I built the engine because without it, until the oil (Owell as you call it :) ) pump pushed the oil up into the engine, it was essentially running dry. Okay, I get that this assembly is rotating nowhere near as fast as an automobile engine. We are talking back in the 60's here, but STP coating a bearing surface would prevent any kind of wear. In fact, I bet that it would take you a year of use on that lathe before the real oil ever got to the bearings. Also, seeing as how the bearings are sump lubricated, I would have soaked them in STP first. They would probably last a hundred years if you did. Anyway, just a ramble about a product I used and trusted, not to mention the great TV commercials featuring Andy Granitelli of of NASCAR and INDY fame. Can't wait to see you make some chips with this baby. Who knows, maybe you can put a small bag into the safe when you finish it with the forge you made to melt the bronze to pour the dial for the safe! Lol, sorry Keith, I couldn't resist. I just can't believe how long I've been watching you and how much quality content you've given us, your fans. It blows my mind; watching the shop go from an idea (right after the safe) to reality. I hope I can live long enough to see you complete the wood-working side of the shop. You have made Friday mornings a look forward to part of my life. Thanks, Rich
I love your patience level! Take your time, it went together before, and it can go together again! Keeping these older machines alive it such a great thing nowadays!
I knew that assembly was going to be a challenge. If I had attempted this it would have gone thru a window early on , closely followed by a string of profanity. What patience you have.
Assembling was quite the puzzle but I had no doubt you could do it. As for the bronze bearing you need, I was hoping a viewer had an NOS one they did not need but that would truly be a miracle.
Keith, I do not wish to brag, but I believe that I am more gifted than you when it comes to mechanisms. My talent was evident early on when I could construct a swing set or bicycle for the kids and have parts left over. I have carried this ability throughout my adult life. In addition, I note that my vocabulary is far superior to yours. . . that is unless one is religiously inclined. As I have an old NebeI lathe to restore, I have been enthusiastically digesting your restoration presentations. For certain my attempt to restore the Nebel will be a vocabulary enhancement exercise.
Yeah...500 bucks for something from Monarch. That's a good deal. Monarch doesn't mind shocking people with sticker price. I was recently quoted $2700 for a set of half nuts for my 16" CY. I'm pursuing alternate methods of repair. Thanks for the detailed rebuilds as always, Mr. Keith!
It's amazing that as poorly maintained as that apron was, all the components with the exception of the bronze worm gear are still in really good condition. Its good to see that the apron will function well after you get it completely assembled.
In addition to the pictures, you mentioned keeping parts together. I drink a lot of coffee and have saved a number of the 8" plastic lids. I then place local components into a lid so I can keep them together, like the pins, screws, gear(s), shaft, ... etc.
I've been working on a South Bend 14-1/2" lathe apron today. Watching your video this morning encouraged me to do what needed to be done to get it fixed. Hopefully parts get ordered either today or Monday morning and I can start putting it back together. So far the major issues were a worn cam-lock stud, a sheared 1/8" pin inside the apron clutch assembly, 4L460 drive belts are completely trashed and the cross slide nut was pretty badly worn.
On any manual lathe that worm and gear are usually "out of sight, out of mind." Considering the cost of those two items, it is well worth your time to make sure they are kept clean an lubricated per the manufactures specification. The $500 Monarch special gear may seem high, but at least it is available. If you have one of the Asian mystery lathes for which there is no support (i.e. nearly all of them) you will go on a snipe hunt trying to find parts that fit or can be made to fit your lathe. Chinese and Asian lathe maintenance instructions often leave this critical cleaning and lubrication requirement out. These bench lathes require greasing the worm gear monthly. They need to be kept clean because of chips getting into the mechanism and sticking to the grease causing damage to the worm and gear.
Thanks Keith for a beautiful reassembly for the Monarch apron. This will be a great help to those who need it. I especially liked the parts layout and assembly tips. Keep up the good instruction.
A trick I invented many years ago to drive the bearing races of tapered roller bearings (cups and cones) is as follows. However you get the old races out, drift, punch, whatever take the OLD races and cut them through with an abrasive wheel along the axis. Now the OLD race becomes a bearing race driver. Even if the new race is a tight fit the driver is "springy" and comes right out with finger pressure.Used to go through a set of cheap front wheel bearings every year on my Chevys years ago before I got smart and went to Timken...
I used to work on Acme Gridley screw machines. The work was similar to what you just did except the gears and bearings were larger and the holes to work through were a bit, but not much, larger.
Keith, well played! You are aware of the 1901 L&S that I am working on. I just finished up with the apron and cross slide on mine. Very similar setup, but all bronze bushings vs. bearings. Yes, pictures (video) of the disassembly is always helpful when putting the puzzle back together! Great Video!
great show again. with large hands, sometimes a telescoping magnet is the way I have to use in tight places. then when I drop it several time I can get it out. thanks for great show. nice clean up job.
I am surprised you did not lap the cone clutches while it was out. Volvo outdrives used the same setup for fwd and rev they are bulletproof. We always lapped them while they were out to keep it shifting smooth. Very easy to do with oil and fine abrasive.
The loose bearing races struck me as wear, considering the tight interference fit as you drove them, only to get sloppy loose as the got close to home. I like Loctite 620 Green Retaining Compound when I encounter signs a bearing has been spun; holds the race firmly, but still removable.
Keith, this is a very interesting video just watching you put it all together, I was kind of surprised that you did not lubricate more than you did but you obviously know what you are doing, really enjoyed it, looking forward to the next video and seeing it all come together, Thanks, Dave
Better man than me!! I have a temper and lack of patience and would be speaking in tongues. Phew, was having nightmares just watching. However, I really enjoy your channel and find it fascinating.
Thank you for showing us the internals of these quality older machines. If I can ever afford to look at these machines I will have a better idea of what to look at. Thanks
Gotta love "Specialty" equipment...OUCH! Sorry to hear that about the worm gear. When you said you'd have to order it I went right to the $500 mark...OUCH!
Definitely could do with some bearing fit on those handwheel shaft bearings. Still easy enough to do at this late stage. Very interesting video again as always.
They must have made many of these when they were new. You have to wonder what the factory assembly instructions were for that thing. They probably had a few special assembly tools, but even so, that thing probably took someone the better part of a day to assemble. I wonder if they considered assembly time or difficulty when they designed it.
Great video. My only comment is that driving ball bearings in like that shortens their life dramatically because of the shock load of the balls on the races. In a low speed low load application like this it probably does not matter much. Good practice is to make sure the installation forces are not transmitted from one race to the other with the rolling elements. In critical applications it really does matter. Thanks for sharing your work.
Pressing the bearing using the race would probably be the easiest. Inner race use a bolt in the end of the shaft and a tube over the shaft. Outer race use a c-clamp to squeeze it in. You can use heat or cold to install but it's easier with bigger bearings and less complicated assemblies. Just make sure to push on the race being fitted and not from one race to the other using the balls.
Surprised at how loose those races fit on the shaft and in the housing- with a tapered roller bearing you want the races to stay in place and the rollers to rotate. I would have used a little loctite on those races. Also on the thrust bearings you usually have 2 different ID's on the races, one to locate the race on the shaft and one to allow the shaft to rotate freely against the fixed piece. Back in the first video it almost looked like that broken drill bit in the hole may have been done at the factory and it just slipped through QC- If the hole had been drilled at the factory, there would have been no need for someone to drill through there later on. Amazing to think that all that entire apron mechanism is replaced by 2 servo motors on a modern cnc lathe.
Yeah, but would those two servo motors last for 50+ years of service and be able to be rebuilt for another 50 years of use? Imagine how long this thing would last if somebody actually changed the oil in it once in a while!
Keith, wanted to drop you a line. Listed on Craig's List in Atlanta, Ga. Under (milledgeville) there is a group of metal shop equipment with overhead belt drive that says save from the "scrapper". Some stuff might be good for you, museum, or steampowered machine shop. Such a waste when this stuff is scraped. Best regards, Philip
I have heard people make their own hobs and then machine the worm gear with their custom hob. Don't know much about that though. Might be worth looking up.
*winces* That $535 price for the bronze worm wheel feels like a quarterback sack to the wallet. What about doing as others suggested, hand-grinding a form tool from HSS to fit the good worm that can then be used for making a cutting hob with? Incredible patience getting the apron mostly back together, at least the most difficult portion of it. Still had snafus but you took breaks from it as needed and thought about ways to make all those tricky portions easier. Lathe's going to be a joy to run and all the effort will have been worth it! ^^
I have dealt with Monarch for parts needed for my 10ee... a 1944 model year.. and yes, the parts *are* expensive but they fit every time. The people who answer the phones or fulfill the parts orders are extremely knowledgable and helpful. They even (once) went so far as to sell me a used casting to fix the machine to OSHA specs. Good people, good company.
I'm sure you he could make the worm gear, but if it's a non-standard pitch then that means making another gear to get the lathe to do it and at some point time is worth more than just buying the part. I don't know what the lathe cost originally, but if I haven't missed something it's got less than $1500 in new parts. That's for a lathe that will be worth around 10X that once it's back to fully operational condition (especially given the attention to the cosmetic side of things he's given it). More so, it will be a tool that will be able to make parts for many decades to come. I venture to say it will outlast a lot of lathes bought new now.
Another great video by the master of the restoration. I thought you had an issue with the pumper system and how it assembled with that hand wheel shaft, when you took it apart. Keep up the wonderful work. Randy
Think I was one who commented I didn't envy you putting that back together... if not I should have. Well done sir! A question: Is reason for worm gear drive off another shaft because of torque requirement that would just be too much for half nut alone, or does it make feed speed changes easier? Wondering why you couldn't just drive off half nut... at least horizontal.
I would have added some Locktite to the Bearing Cup that was slightly undersize. I worked at Timken Roller Bearing Go. in the 60's. I always put some correct grease in the palm of my hand and force it up between the rolls on the Cone when assembling. You did mention oil pump but I don't see how oil can get to some of those Tapered Roller Bearings. The grease was in there for a reason! Splash oiling?
I love these videos! This is probably a stupid question but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Could you replace both worm gears with something standard and currently available? Or maybe replace the one worm gear and fabricate the other in standard sizes? Maybe that could keep it under the $500 mark ??
A bit of lock tight on those races might have been in order. I'd think you wouldn't want them spinning in the hole. Thanks for the video. Is the pump going to go back in with no trouble?
It looked like those clutch gears might have had some extra holes in them so that you could screw the whole clutch and spring assembly together, feed it into the machine, then unscrew it once the shaft was in place?
It's very low speed, only moves as fast as you can crank it. It won't hurt anything if it did spin, anyway the friction with the spacer will probably keep it from spinning anyway.
Before you reinstall the halfnuts be sure to clear the oil passage to the top halfnut - it only lines up when the halfnuts close (at least on the Monarchs I've worked on) and often is clogged. What are the specs for the worm wheel? $500 doesn't seem too out of line for a one off but someone might have one laying on the shelf
I think keith should have staked the surface of the first race insertion. Not on the back holding wall but the outer circumferance of the body of the apron with a center punch.
Keith: Can you cut the brass gear in two steps without using a hob? Cut the teeth first and then use a rotary table and an end mill to cut the radius on the face of the teeth? Maybe get with John Saunders and see if he can cut one on his CNC?
Cutting the teeth would give a flat bottom, and the bottom of the teeth need to have a radius to match the worm. The teeth are also angled to match the worm pitch, so not quite that simple!
I am restoring a 1912/1915 ATW High Duty 14" gear head lathe, do you have or know where I can get an exploded view parts manual for it? I watch all your restoration videos, I find them very informative.
What bearings did you use for the shaft that rides on the rack? Mine had the original 3 piece rollers, but you seemed to have a nice steel sheilded one there
If both the worm and the gear are nonstandard, couldn't you find a functionally equivalent standard set to replace them with? All you need is an equivalent ratio and shaft size.
Gotta say, you machinist folks got skills. Can barely start my lawn mower, me! Talk about sweat! And you tear down an apparatus then put it back together - never mind having videos. Amazing. Admiration, machinist folks!
Thank you Keith for resuscitating and breathing a second life into this old Monarch. Highly valued in the future.
As always you awe the viewer with the ability to figure out what to do ti take ot apart and the tough p[art, how to reassemble the parts. You have enormous patients that makes things work out fine in the end.
I don't which I admire more: your patience during this re-assembly, or your courage in daring to undertake this job in the first place.
Great that Monarch still has the parts available! Yes they are pricey but I think it is worth the donation to keep that source around.
It makes me wonder though, whether those very high prices are justified. I know, from having bought and made them, that bronze gears that size can be expensive, and worm gears are even more expensive. But this is really expensive. Since it’s a custom size, it’s going to cost. But from people I know who have worked on Monarch, and other lathes from back then, the prices are well in advance of what would be expected by inflation. Yes, they sell small numbers. But, as a former manufacturer, I can say that raising prices above what’s required, drives customers away.
How many people, and companies, who would have otherwise rebuilt machines, decided to scrap them out instead, because of overwhelming parts costs? Quite a few, I would imagine. That doesn’t help those who want to rebuild a machine, and in the long run, it doesn’t help Monarch either.
Thanks for being honest and posting some re-do assembly bits. Until now, I thought I was the only guy who screwed up.
Great job Keith! Would be fun to see how Monarch workers assembled these back in the day.
Great video - whoever designed that apron was a mechanical genius!
I take my hat off to the machine designers who put all that functionality into a relatively small space. And with the hat I slap the person who messed up the automatic oiling system. Thanks again for showing and explaining.
Keith,
I may be old school here. But I have built many engines in my day, no lathes, but automobile engines. As I watched you reassemble this very complex gearbox (dry for the most part), I said to myself, "Why doesn't he use STP?" I always coated all my engine parts with STP when I built the engine because without it, until the oil (Owell as you call it :) ) pump pushed the oil up into the engine, it was essentially running dry. Okay, I get that this assembly is rotating nowhere near as fast as an automobile engine. We are talking back in the 60's here, but STP coating a bearing surface would prevent any kind of wear. In fact, I bet that it would take you a year of use on that lathe before the real oil ever got to the bearings. Also, seeing as how the bearings are sump lubricated, I would have soaked them in STP first. They would probably last a hundred years if you did. Anyway, just a ramble about a product I used and trusted, not to mention the great TV commercials featuring Andy Granitelli of of NASCAR and INDY fame. Can't wait to see you make some chips with this baby. Who knows, maybe you can put a small bag into the safe when you finish it with the forge you made to melt the bronze to pour the dial for the safe! Lol, sorry Keith, I couldn't resist. I just can't believe how long I've been watching you and how much quality content you've given us, your fans. It blows my mind; watching the shop go from an idea (right after the safe) to reality. I hope I can live long enough to see you complete the wood-working side of the shop. You have made Friday mornings a look forward to part of my life.
Thanks,
Rich
I love your patience level! Take your time, it went together before, and it can go together again! Keeping these older machines alive it such a great thing nowadays!
I knew that assembly was going to be a challenge. If I had attempted this it would have gone thru a window early on , closely followed by a string of profanity. What patience you have.
Assembling was quite the puzzle but I had no doubt you could do it. As for the bronze bearing you need, I was hoping a viewer had an NOS one they did not need but that would truly be a miracle.
Well, it happend with the gear for the mill.
Like some kind of crazy 3D jigsaw puzzle!!! Can't wait to see it making chips.
Keith, I do not wish to brag, but I believe that I am more gifted than you when it comes to mechanisms. My talent was evident early on when I could construct a swing set or bicycle for the kids and have parts left over. I have carried this ability throughout my adult life. In addition, I note that my vocabulary is far superior to yours. . . that is unless one is religiously inclined. As I have an old NebeI lathe to restore, I have been enthusiastically digesting your restoration presentations. For certain my attempt to restore the Nebel will be a vocabulary enhancement exercise.
Yeah...500 bucks for something from Monarch. That's a good deal. Monarch doesn't mind shocking people with sticker price. I was recently quoted $2700 for a set of half nuts for my 16" CY. I'm pursuing alternate methods of repair. Thanks for the detailed rebuilds as always, Mr. Keith!
It's amazing that as poorly maintained as that apron was, all the components with the exception of the bronze worm gear are still in really good condition. Its good to see that the apron will function well after you get it completely assembled.
In addition to the pictures, you mentioned keeping parts together. I drink a lot of coffee and have saved a number of the 8" plastic lids. I then place local components into a lid so I can keep them together, like the pins, screws, gear(s), shaft, ... etc.
Boy O Boy, that's a LOT of parts..hahaha
And Brian is right, it's really heartening to know Monarch still has the parts you need.
Good job Keith.
I've been working on a South Bend 14-1/2" lathe apron today. Watching your video this morning encouraged me to do what needed to be done to get it fixed. Hopefully parts get ordered either today or Monday morning and I can start putting it back together. So far the major issues were a worn cam-lock stud, a sheared 1/8" pin inside the apron clutch assembly, 4L460 drive belts are completely trashed and the cross slide nut was pretty badly worn.
On any manual lathe that worm and gear are usually "out of sight, out of mind." Considering the cost of those two items, it is well worth your time to make sure they are kept clean an lubricated per the manufactures specification. The $500 Monarch special gear may seem high, but at least it is available. If you have one of the Asian mystery lathes for which there is no support (i.e. nearly all of them) you will go on a snipe hunt trying to find parts that fit or can be made to fit your lathe.
Chinese and Asian lathe maintenance instructions often leave this critical cleaning and lubrication requirement out. These bench lathes require greasing the worm gear monthly. They need to be kept clean because of chips getting into the mechanism and sticking to the grease causing damage to the worm and gear.
Thanks Keith for a beautiful reassembly for the Monarch apron. This will be a great help to those who need it. I especially liked the parts layout and assembly tips. Keep up the good instruction.
A trick I invented many years ago to drive the bearing races of tapered roller bearings (cups and cones) is as follows. However you get the old races out, drift, punch, whatever take the OLD races and cut them through with an abrasive wheel along the axis. Now the OLD race becomes a bearing race driver. Even if the new race is a tight fit the driver is "springy" and comes right out with finger pressure.Used to go through a set of cheap front wheel bearings every year on my Chevys years ago before I got smart and went to Timken...
I used to work on Acme Gridley screw machines. The work was similar to what you just did except the gears and bearings were larger and the holes to work through were a bit, but not much, larger.
Keith, well played! You are aware of the 1901 L&S that I am working on. I just finished up with the apron and cross slide on mine. Very similar setup, but all bronze bushings vs. bearings. Yes, pictures (video) of the disassembly is always helpful when putting the puzzle back together! Great Video!
great show again. with large hands, sometimes a telescoping magnet is the way I have to use in tight places. then when I drop it several time I can get it out. thanks for great show. nice clean up job.
I am surprised you did not lap the cone clutches while it was out. Volvo outdrives used the same setup for fwd and rev they are bulletproof. We always lapped them while they were out to keep it shifting smooth. Very easy to do with oil and fine abrasive.
The loose bearing races struck me as wear, considering the tight interference fit as you drove them, only to get sloppy loose as the got close to home. I like Loctite 620 Green Retaining Compound when I encounter signs a bearing has been spun; holds the race firmly, but still removable.
Great job i bet you could of had it back together in half the time if you weren't filming. thanks for another great chapter in the restoration
Keith, this is a very interesting video just watching you put it all together, I was kind of surprised that you did not lubricate more than you did but you obviously know what you are doing, really enjoyed it, looking forward to the next video and seeing it all come together,
Thanks,
Dave
i hope we get to see the oil pump working inside the apron, id love to see some oil moving around all that
All those gears, reminds me of a car's manual transmission. Great job Keith.
GREAT WORK KIETH. THAT MONARCH IS GOING TO WORK GREAT REBUILT ! VERY EXPENSIVE LATHE BACK IN THE DAY. VERY EDUCATIONAL I LEARNED A LOT!
Better man than me!! I have a temper and lack of patience and would be speaking in tongues. Phew, was having nightmares just watching. However, I really enjoy your channel and find it fascinating.
I am still amazed at the complexity of this casting. I would need SolidWorks and a giant 3D printer to get all these parts working.
And figure that this isn't a complicated machine...and it was all done on the drafting paper, with a lamp, and nooo internet. :)
all done in a mud hut by a blind patternmaker :)
F1DesignUS
'
A wery nice challenging matrioska, nice work.
Thank you for showing us the internals of these quality older machines.
If I can ever afford to look at these machines I will have a better idea of what to look at.
Thanks
Gotta love "Specialty" equipment...OUCH! Sorry to hear that about the worm gear. When you said you'd have to order it I went right to the $500 mark...OUCH!
Definitely could do with some bearing fit on those handwheel shaft bearings. Still easy enough to do at this late stage. Very interesting video again as always.
They must have made many of these when they were new. You have to wonder what the factory assembly instructions were for that thing. They probably had a few special assembly tools, but even so, that thing probably took someone the better part of a day to assemble. I wonder if they considered assembly time or difficulty when they designed it.
Great video. My only comment is that driving ball bearings in like that shortens their life dramatically because of the shock load of the balls on the races. In a low speed low load application like this it probably does not matter much. Good practice is to make sure the installation forces are not transmitted from one race to the other with the rolling elements. In critical applications it really does matter. Thanks for sharing your work.
I've asked Keith about the way he treats bearings before but so far he hasn't responded. Nice to see someone else mentioning 'good practice'.
Those were Roller Bearings. A proper tool should be used for seating the Cups.
Just curios......how would you guys install them? Heat up the casting?
Pressing the bearing using the race would probably be the easiest. Inner race use a bolt in the end of the shaft and a tube over the shaft. Outer race use a c-clamp to squeeze it in. You can use heat or cold to install but it's easier with bigger bearings and less complicated assemblies. Just make sure to push on the race being fitted and not from one race to the other using the balls.
Great work kind on the edge of my seat watching this go back together good video .
Nice work Keith - will look great when its all done!
Cheers, John
Great reassembly! Waiting for the next steps! Keep up your great work...
you are amazing. if i had taken that apart, it would never have gone back together!
It will be making chips before long. Thanks for the video.
Great video, enjoy viewing and learning, looking for a Monarch at the moment. Keep them coming!
Monarch still have parts? Awesome company! Thank You for the series!
Enjoyed Keith!
ATB, Robin
Surprised at how loose those races fit on the shaft and in the housing- with a tapered roller bearing you want the races to stay in place and the rollers to rotate. I would have used a little loctite on those races. Also on the thrust bearings you usually have 2 different ID's on the races, one to locate the race on the shaft and one to allow the shaft to rotate freely against the fixed piece. Back in the first video it almost looked like that broken drill bit in the hole may have been done at the factory and it just slipped through QC- If the hole had been drilled at the factory, there would have been no need for someone to drill through there later on. Amazing to think that all that entire apron mechanism is replaced by 2 servo motors on a modern cnc lathe.
Yeah, but would those two servo motors last for 50+ years of service and be able to be rebuilt for another 50 years of use? Imagine how long this thing would last if somebody actually changed the oil in it once in a while!
I agree. I've installed a lot of bearings and races (although never in a lathe) and I have never had a race spin. That is what the bearing is for.
Keith, wanted to drop you a line. Listed on Craig's List in Atlanta, Ga. Under (milledgeville) there is a group of metal shop equipment with overhead belt drive that says save from the "scrapper". Some stuff might be good for you, museum, or steampowered machine shop. Such a waste when this stuff is scraped. Best regards, Philip
Brilliant job Keith! Good show, I really enjoyed it.
I have heard people make their own hobs and then machine the worm gear with their custom hob. Don't know much about that though. Might be worth looking up.
Goodness Keith you are keen!!
It amazing how something so small can be such a big headache.
Good video keep them coming I agree about Loctite on some screws later
*winces* That $535 price for the bronze worm wheel feels like a quarterback sack to the wallet. What about doing as others suggested, hand-grinding a form tool from HSS to fit the good worm that can then be used for making a cutting hob with? Incredible patience getting the apron mostly back together, at least the most difficult portion of it. Still had snafus but you took breaks from it as needed and thought about ways to make all those tricky portions easier. Lathe's going to be a joy to run and all the effort will have been worth it! ^^
Or, is the worm of a pitch that none of the lathes you have access to has the gearing to cut, even with a form tool ground to the profile needed?
time is money
Patriot1776 i
I have dealt with Monarch for parts needed for my 10ee... a 1944 model year.. and yes, the parts *are* expensive but they fit every time. The people who answer the phones or fulfill the parts orders are extremely knowledgable and helpful. They even (once) went so far as to sell me a used casting to fix the machine to OSHA specs.
Good people, good company.
If you do not mind me saying, silicon is an element, silicone is a class of compounds including kinds of synthetic rubber.
I'm sure you he could make the worm gear, but if it's a non-standard pitch then that means making another gear to get the lathe to do it and at some point time is worth more than just buying the part. I don't know what the lathe cost originally, but if I haven't missed something it's got less than $1500 in new parts. That's for a lathe that will be worth around 10X that once it's back to fully operational condition (especially given the attention to the cosmetic side of things he's given it). More so, it will be a tool that will be able to make parts for many decades to come. I venture to say it will outlast a lot of lathes bought new now.
Coming along great. I like the color.
Another great video by the master of the restoration. I thought you had an issue with the pumper system and how it assembled with that hand wheel shaft, when you took it apart. Keep up the wonderful work.
Randy
Looking good Keith, the brass gear....ouch
Hi Keith I new I was in for some reassembly when you started from where you dissembled instead of reverse order.
Keith - But if you made the bronze gear, what a wonderful video that would make. Maybe that would balance the funding delta, make versus buy!
looking great Keith . Going to be a great lathe man !
Think I was one who commented I didn't envy you putting that back together... if not I should have. Well done sir!
A question: Is reason for worm gear drive off another shaft because of torque requirement that would just be too much for half nut alone, or does it make feed speed changes easier? Wondering why you couldn't just drive off half nut... at least horizontal.
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I would have added some Locktite to the Bearing Cup that was slightly undersize. I worked at Timken Roller Bearing Go. in the 60's. I always put some correct grease in the palm of my hand and force it up between the rolls on the Cone when assembling. You did mention oil pump but I don't see how oil can get to some of those Tapered Roller Bearings. The grease was in there for a reason! Splash oiling?
If a man made it, another man can fix it. The millwright's motto. Slave shafts are a great help. You are doing good Keith.
The brass gear looks fine, put it back together and check how it works.
Sooo very interesting. Thanks so much for sharing.
Outstanding video!
I rebuilt a lathe once. I even had enough parts left over to build a small drill press
Excellent video
I love these videos!
This is probably a stupid question but I'm gonna ask it anyway.
Could you replace both worm gears with something standard and currently available?
Or maybe replace the one worm gear and fabricate the other in standard sizes?
Maybe that could keep it under the $500 mark ??
I did wonder what would keep the large gear on the first shaft in place without a spacer to stop it floating!
A bit of lock tight on those races might have been in order. I'd think you wouldn't want them spinning in the hole. Thanks for the video. Is the pump going to go back in with no trouble?
Duncan, at 1 or 2 RPMs there is not going to be a
LOT of wear.
steve
agreed. or a couple of dot punch marks
Brilliant job
It looked like those clutch gears might have had some extra holes in them so that you could screw the whole clutch and spring assembly together, feed it into the machine, then unscrew it once the shaft was in place?
I was rocking on my stool: "Did he forget, he pulled out 3 big gears at last?"
THANK YOU...for sharing.
Hey could you have put a little lock tight on the outside of that bearing race it should keep it from spinning
It's very low speed, only moves as fast as you can crank it. It won't hurt anything if it did spin, anyway the friction with the spacer will probably keep it from spinning anyway.
Great job Keith, that would drive a man to drinking.haha
I like this video... perry good there
Mr.Rucker....
Almost as enjoyable as doing it myself, and considerably cheaper!
Before you reinstall the halfnuts be sure to clear the oil passage to the top halfnut - it only lines up when the halfnuts close (at least on the Monarchs I've worked on) and often is clogged.
What are the specs for the worm wheel? $500 doesn't seem too out of line for a one off but someone might have one laying on the shelf
yeah, monarch has one laying on the shelf, the 500 dollar shelf lol
That's where the same part for my 10EE came from
Hard to believe you don't do a dry run rehearsal for these saddle jobs - wow.
I think keith should have staked the surface of the first race insertion. Not on the back holding wall but the outer circumferance of the body of the apron with a center punch.
Hey Keith, very interesting video. Have you ever consider buying a inductive bearing heater?
Keith:
Can you cut the brass gear in two steps without using a hob? Cut the teeth first and then use a rotary table and an end mill to cut the radius on the face of the teeth?
Maybe get with John Saunders and see if he can cut one on his CNC?
Cutting the teeth would give a flat bottom, and the bottom of the teeth need to have a radius to match the worm. The teeth are also angled to match the worm pitch, so not quite that simple!
possible with cnc though, but he may want more than 500 to make one that way
GREAT VIDEO !!!
I am restoring a 1912/1915 ATW High Duty 14" gear head lathe, do you have or know where I can get an exploded view parts manual for it? I watch all your restoration videos, I find them very informative.
Aren't you worried with the races moving. Kind of defeats the purpose for the bearing?
2 steps forward, one step back, rinse, repeat!
good work...
Are these races suppose to fit in this loose? Just curious if the casting is worn which is the reason why they fit in so loose.
What bearings did you use for the shaft that rides on the rack? Mine had the original 3 piece rollers, but you seemed to have a nice steel sheilded one there
Give your MEMORY a lot of credit....!
If both the worm and the gear are nonstandard, couldn't you find a functionally equivalent standard set to replace them with? All you need is an equivalent ratio and shaft size.
Do you grease the bearings or does the oil from the gears keep them lubricated? Just does not seem they would get enough oil that way.
Do those oil lines work harden when they get moved around like that?