This wasn't the easiest video to make as the subject is fairly hard to convey on a whiteboard! Perhaps I'll grab a relay and show it installed with lights on a board! 🛠 *AMAZON TOOL STORE:* www.amazon.co.uk/shop/plumberparts 🤗 *BECOME A PATREON:* www.patreon.com/plumberparts 📺 *VLOG CHANNEL:* ruclips.net/user/timeswithjames
I am going to be starting my ACS in February 2023 and am doing a lot of studying to get a head start. James videos are awesome with such clarity on the information and knowledge he is sharing. I am 54 years old and am retraining. I worked with my dad many years back so know the basics as he was a plumber, but James is awesome in filling in the gaps with all the new stuff. Thanks a million James it really has helped.
The only slight downside to this arrangement is that the pumps will come on before the valve has fully opened (or if the valve fails). An alternative which will avoid that problem, would be to drive the pumps directly from the switched output of their respective valve. The switched output from each valve would also be connected to the coil of a relay (one relay for each pump). The switched outputs from the 2 relays could then be used to switch the boiler on by wiring them in parallel.
Thanks mate. This is very similar to a job I did, where I had to build a boiler room in a large bungalow (we nicked an area off a large bedroom) that housed the boiler (Ecotec 632) a 300lt Megaflow and 4 zone valves. The issue was there there was not enough of a leg to run a bypass effectively, so the boiler pump overrun would keep going after demand stopped, until the boiler dropped to 50°c. I just could not get enough heat to dissipate to stop the pump quicker. The solution... 5 relays. When there was no demand, relay #5 held open a rad zone circuit to dump heat into. When any of the 4 zones asked for heat, that #5 relay closed, closing the rad zone, and at the same time it opened which ever zone was being asked for. It works like a charm, been running for at least 3 yrs now, and I’ve used this in other big installs. I can’t lay claim for the electrical design, only what I wanted it to do. One of my customers is a retired electronics engineer, he drew up the schematics for me to wire it. It’s brilliant how it works. Keep up the good work mate 👍
Also, one of the best features about relays is that you can use a small current for the switch to operate a heavy current making switching safer 👍 good vid mate
Very well explained, I'm the other way round an electrician that has to sort out plumbing wiring nightmares. My advice to anyone would be to spend a short time drawing out the circuit first before starting. The other is take a photo of each way the virous items are wired before you start. Always use good quality relays that are rated for 240 volts, don't be tempted to use Chinese, you will never stop returning.
Great video thanks, not a plumber and understood most of it. I I were adding a boiler stove to the system that required adding a pipe thermostat and 8m circulating pump how do I add a relay from this to the motorised valves? What type of wire (Core) is needed and where is it wired into? The wiring centre? If dos how can you tell where in the wiring centre you add the new pump? Thanks
Great video mate, love the effort, experience and humour you put into these videos. I’m not in the trade at all but watch to see how it’s done and because of your mucking around - *HOLD TIGHT*
I'm not going to pretend I fully understand it all. Wiring is not really a strong point for me. But thanks for taking the time to put this together and your explanations. Have a good weekend.
Enjoying your videos. I am not a plumber and watching how these things work is quite interesting. I would be interested in seeing how zoning works in hydronic heating and what the minimum number of radiators would be needed in a zone.
Really good video pretty good at fault finding s and y plans but never knew what a relay did! Ever days a school day. Also agree the vlog type vids are great and the live q&A on the weekends are quality
Cheers dude. I have a hack planned . Two heat sources: I’m using a pair of old fridge compressors to pressurise reprocessed veg oil for burning through a .40 Kero jet. (It gets pumped and pressurised in to a calor bottle up to 120PSI variable though) Then out to the Jet via a final filter and fire valve to a boiler from an old gas fire. (Here exhaust heat is used to warm the oil (thinner is better for keeping pressures down. Bugger in cold weather and this is an outdoor system for safety reasons and hopefully for reprocessing dirty oil when required) Original plan was to heat the greenhouses and sheds, I got thinking. Existing household system is a combi. But if I install a thermal store I can run the HW of the oil burner. (The oil is free but processing and filtration is not, but still way cheaper to run if excluding my time) The here problem is keeping the combi plumbed in as back up should the oil system be off, fail and or be down for servicing. So it’s down to stats and a bi directional flow valve. If it goes to plan then I may look at patching in to the CH in the future if it has the output that is. Thanks loads. Keep it up!
Love the video, exactly the same problem I’m having and I came to the same conclusion I would need a relay. Any ideas what relays I could use? Any links or suggestions more than welcome 👍
Thanks for a really excellent video. Not only did you explain it really well but stopped me from making an almighty screw up as i install an underfloor heating system in my new extension.
Just want to say a big thanks as it’s just explained everything so easy, I’ve just fixed an on going problem after watching this , found the issue after a whole day of trying to get the heating to work without the water being turned on, keep them coming 👍
Great video, I currently have plumbers in right now in my house and they've just added ufh to the system, but I still have some of the previous radiators upstairs. They asked me to order a relay but I like to know what stuff does, your vid has helped me (a non-plumber) a lot :) I do now wonder given your comments, if the fact they are having to use one indicates they are trying to fix a bad install in the first place, or is the realy THE only way to ix a scenario when HW, rads and ufh are shared supplies from a single boiler? Also, they only asked me to buy one relay rather than two, which they are adding to the manifold area ... should I be more worried?? (sigh!!)
James I am wondering what will happen if the motorised valve is kept on radiators in winter to keep home warm So my question is what will happen to the hot water On s plan ? Thanks
Would putting an auto bypass after the pump before the motorised valves have done the same thing? I know the pump would of still came on but would a by pass still of worked?
Yeah it would work but depending on the run length it will be sapping and wasting energy! also the backfeed on the wiring will turn on ufh pump when its not needed also (if the heating was calling) so you would need another pressure bypass on the ufh side too! Its far easier to just add a couple of relays in an adaptable box to stop the backfeed. from what i can remember the grant vortex are really basic and dont have a pump overrun, so the live to the boiler is just sent to the boiler pump/system pump and only sent to the burner if the boiler stat is set high enough and if the thermal cutout on the boiler is ok. you could add a timer relay to run the system pump for 5 mins after the boiler is shutoff. but the manufacturer clearly is not bothered as the boiler does not have this facility. hope this helps dude.
Hi James, I have an old boiler in the utility room of a bungalow. It high up and fee comes in at roof level then down to each rad. I watch your balancing video where you close the valves then re-open a quarter turn and it hasn't seemed to work. Also when the heating is off I have one or two rads that stay warm all day. Any ideas? Got a video by any chance? Thanks!
@@plumberparts yeah fair enough mate. Since I balanced the system it seems to be behaving itself better. I saw your video on that. Thanks and keep up the good work on here.
Brilliant video :-) Quick question, Would you use a relay with a UHF manifold where there is no relay in the manifold itself? e.g. You dont have a second a two-port value and you are using the actuators to close and open the second zone?
Hi James I'm thinking of adding a comet fusion electric boiler on to my heat-pump as a parallel bivaliant could go through how you would do it? And would you add another vessel on to it to be safe.
Delayed Relays? This is what I think I might need. So, just installed Worcester danesmoor system utility. It has live for power and/or pump. I have nest controller. I ask for heating and it turns everything on, works a treat. My problem is once nest says it's up to temp it turns off the boiler and pump. What I want to happen is the boiler stop but pump continue to remove heat from the boiler itself and give it a bit more longevity. I can't for the life of me work out how to do this with nest and boiler, my only thinking is to drop in a delay relay, so when power is cut the relay does not cut power for x minutes to the pump Any suggestions? And great videos btw :). Cheers. Rich.
As well as making the pump over-run depending on your system you may also have to have a zone valve hold open. All in all could end up being more hassle than it’s worth. Keep the system clean and inhibited, get it serviced annually. Oil boilers usually go forever if you take care of them
If you really want to do it, you have two options, a time delay relay that will trigger on the signal to stop, but not all boilers have that. Or put a thermostat on the output pipe from the boiler and use an OR gate that will drive the pump when either the thermostat or the existing demand calls for it. If you want to use a standard thermostat (that provides closed circuit on demand) you might also need an inverter. most of these things run as low voltage, and then you'll need relays again...
Hi James. Happy New Year all !Just thought it might be worth sharing that sometimes neutrals ARE switched (eg in a double-pole switch)? or when an installer does it wrong and we are fault-finding. My old back boiler was wired with a switched neutral and caused problems when my old fuse box was updated to one with circuit breakers and an RCD. Just my tuppence worth
I guess the question is how do you know when to use a relay though? iv wired up s plan systems with UFH as well and there’s been no relays, other systems iv done the manufacture shows you need a relay in the wiring diagram. I once had to add a UFH zone to a system that already had HW, X2 CH and another UFH zone, technical help said i didn’t need a relay but this makes me think i probably did…
I'm needing to replace my pump soon amd thinking of getting the wilo pico pump that you seem to be a fan of. Will the variable speed work with the standard bypass valve on my s plan system? Seen stuff online saying it won't give enough flow over the boiler when the valves close? Cheers
Might be a stupid question🙈 Defo not picking, appreciate u sharing the knowledge👍 what about pump over run for the boiler ? Did u fit another auto bypass after the new wilo pump
Thanks for the video response to my comment. I almost blushed 😁 Got a lot better understanding now. The visual on a light board would be great. Can you do a video on brexits 😉
James. Great videos. Should the pump signal not be instigated before the feed to the boiler, that way you can get flow moving through the heat exchanger before the burner ignites ? or am i over complicating things ? My problem is old oil boiler 4 connections DHW / CH two pumps/ one Potterton controller . room stat and cylinder stat. Potterton can only fire on CH when DHW enabled.... want to change to Hive. separate relays for CH and DHW. Hive switches relays direct feed to pumps to get flow going. Power onto 2 port on CH, micro-switch makes and fires boiler. Equally DH Hive switches through cylinder stat and pulls in relay which fires pump and boiler, question is should i put a 2 port on the HW like i did on the CH ? reason i put 2 port on CH was i was getting heat in rad circuits when HW fired, think it was conduction in the water. Do you think the problem will now be demand, if i have CH and HW demand on the same heat exchanger could i risk starving the DH cylinder recharge flow when CH is on ? or should i kill the 2 port CH valve when i have DH demand ? OR ? should i change boiler to 2 connections and put a 3 port valve in ?????
All gone to pot. Boiler baffle support frame burnt away, baffles fell down infront of burner, litterally melted away. Shot to Sh*t . time for a new boiler get rid of pumps and rely on combi only !!!!
Would it not be better to switch the live to the boiler with the relay, rather than the live to the pump? If the boiler is on but the pump not - wouldn’t you get a build up of pressure behind the pump? (Assuming the boiler has a pump in).
Shouldn’t the boiler have a low loss header or closed couple tees on it as the circuits designed flow is more than the designed flow for the boiler? (Especially the ufh mass flow)
19 thumbs down, can't appreciate a good sense of humour...:) If this channel is still active, is this set-up fairly the same for mobile homes, as well??? my hubby is a journeyman electrician, and feels our heater problem could be a relay switch issue, because it keeps shutting itsself off and on. Could that POSSIBLY withouut y'all looking at it, be the case???? it's a fairly old unit, but was working prior to this issue. And the a/c works??? but, I am dumb-founded, when it comes to electricity and plumbing, thanks so much!!!
Hi James could you point me in the right direction to some good quality fibre washer 15 and 22mmand also waste washer kits look on you selling page but could not find any thanks
plumberparts hes an artist who used to be on tv in the 90’s. Great hangover viewing . Lots of his videos on RUclips . Bob Ross the joy of painting . Have a look and you will get it right away
Anyone know how to get this to work with a “pump overrun” signal from a boiler? I assume one pump would need to be selected (one on a circuit that definitely has a bypass) but I believe the pump overrun is on BOTH when the boiler is running and for say 3m after It’s a head scratcher 🤷🏻♂️
Why no EBay store? I bought a few bits from your Amazon store, as I like to support folks who make an effort. But Amazon are a PITA, I had my credit card cancelled as I'd paid a "flagged" vendor (another purchase from China). Happy days, I now use Amazon Gift Card to pay, but it's so much more effort than eBay.
Would be good to see a video using modulation control and digital controllers rather than relays? Love the non polarity of opentherm and modbus. Shame it’s not used more in the uk.
Be careful, your slowly turning into an electrician. Could you do a bottom immersion without a drain down. I kinda wanna see how messy it is. And if you know of a big field somewhere. Would you kindly cap the vent on a vented and boil it some. I don't think it will blow as good as the unvented on myth busters, but it is almost the season to blow stuff up.
Wow when I heard you read out my name, I thought it was a great video but I did not comment on this one, did mind transfer happen ? til I saw it was another Richard Lyons
The hot water pump still sees live from boiler (when it's lived from the UHF - commoned at lower terminal of HW relay - even when the Programmer doesn't close that relay
No it doesn’t. The HW pump will only activate when the HW programmer activates the relay. The relay is a switch that closes the connection from the boiler to drive the HW pump. If the relay is off the live from the boiler isn’t connected to the HW pump. Right?
nice vid butt why relays when you have systems that have all the stuff you need in a few parts. evo home from honeywell could do the trick way easier for ya and there are more systems wich does the same in holland
I only seem to use relays when somebody (spark) has cocked up and created back feeding to controls and circulators.If a job is well speced and thought out they are normally not necessary. Good thing about relays is there reliability.
you talk alot of motorised vavles wiring of them.surely as a plumber you must come across cases where the motorised valve is the problem ie there are highly restrictive as the water passes true them and resulting in the heating system working poorly?as a plumber myself I see this so many times maybe do a video on ways around this problem.hold tight 😁
@@MrRctintin unfortunately that makes next to no different as the vast majority of motorist vavles are pretty much the same inside weather 3/4 or 1" motorists vavles I've being in many a house with 1" motorised vavles same old problem It be nice to see a video done for his viewer to over come this problem
Why are you drawing an "S" plan on the board and then you show viewers a "Y" plan valve, you should be showing viewers a 2 port zone valve with microswitch. Secondly, there was an easier way to fix your naff system, move the pump back to the boiler split the flow between the airing cupboard and the underfloor heating and install an auto bypass for pressure-flow issues, you could have also fitted a balancing valve to the flow to the UFH circuit so upstairs is not robbed of flow when all circuits are operating. You then wouldn't have needed to install a second pump and all your fandangled relays, the job would have been quicker and cheaper for the client. What you have done works but it's a little OTT.
@@plumberparts Calm down chap, just keeping you honest.....lol......... I have a theory you are trying to create chaos in the DIY world so plumbers get a surge in work.....good lad!! Bad winter coming so you won't need it ..lol..chill.
This wasn't the easiest video to make as the subject is fairly hard to convey on a whiteboard! Perhaps I'll grab a relay and show it installed with lights on a board!
🛠 *AMAZON TOOL STORE:* www.amazon.co.uk/shop/plumberparts
🤗 *BECOME A PATREON:* www.patreon.com/plumberparts
📺 *VLOG CHANNEL:* ruclips.net/user/timeswithjames
I know I'm pretty randomly asking but does anyone know of a good site to watch new tv shows online ?
I am going to be starting my ACS in February 2023 and am doing a lot of studying to get a head start.
James videos are awesome with such clarity on the information and knowledge he is sharing. I am 54 years old and am retraining. I worked with my dad many years back so know the basics as he was a plumber, but James is awesome in filling in the gaps with all the new stuff.
Thanks a million James it really has helped.
The only slight downside to this arrangement is that the pumps will come on before the valve has fully opened (or if the valve fails). An alternative which will avoid that problem, would be to drive the pumps directly from the switched output of their respective valve. The switched output from each valve would also be connected to the coil of a relay (one relay for each pump). The switched outputs from the 2 relays could then be used to switch the boiler on by wiring them in parallel.
Thanks mate.
This is very similar to a job I did, where I had to build a boiler room in a large bungalow (we nicked an area off a large bedroom) that housed the boiler (Ecotec 632) a 300lt Megaflow and 4 zone valves. The issue was there there was not enough of a leg to run a bypass effectively, so the boiler pump overrun would keep going after demand stopped, until the boiler dropped to 50°c. I just could not get enough heat to dissipate to stop the pump quicker.
The solution... 5 relays. When there was no demand, relay #5 held open a rad zone circuit to dump heat into. When any of the 4 zones asked for heat, that #5 relay closed, closing the rad zone, and at the same time it opened which ever zone was being asked for.
It works like a charm, been running for at least 3 yrs now, and I’ve used this in other big installs.
I can’t lay claim for the electrical design, only what I wanted it to do. One of my customers is a retired electronics engineer, he drew up the schematics for me to wire it. It’s brilliant how it works.
Keep up the good work mate 👍
Brilliant job explaining a difficult topic. Very helpfull and thank you for making this video James
Also, one of the best features about relays is that you can use a small current for the switch to operate a heavy current making switching safer 👍 good vid mate
Are you talking about micro switch wires? In his schematic diagram were the wires were yellow/orange?
I love that you have managed to explain wiring! It took me years to understand it and you just reeled it off like it was so simple! FANKS BAE
you are a breath of fresh air in our game, superb videos. brilliant.
Hi there James
Top video again thank you....
Any chance you could tell me what relays you are using??? Cheers Steve
Very well explained, I'm the other way round an electrician that has to sort out plumbing wiring nightmares. My advice to anyone would be to spend a short time drawing out the circuit first before starting. The other is take a photo of each way the virous items are wired before you start. Always use good quality relays that are rated for 240 volts, don't be tempted to use Chinese, you will never stop returning.
Great video thanks, not a plumber and understood most of it. I I were adding a boiler stove to the system that required adding a pipe thermostat and 8m circulating pump how do I add a relay from this to the motorised valves? What type of wire (Core) is needed and where is it wired into? The wiring centre? If dos how can you tell where in the wiring centre you add the new pump? Thanks
I’m an electrician and hvac engineer. This is a brilliant video. Cheers 🙂
Good video - it's one of those subjects that takes a bit of thinking time to get your head around but we'll worth it when it finally clicks.
Great video mate, love the effort, experience and humour you put into these videos. I’m not in the trade at all but watch to see how it’s done and because of your mucking around - *HOLD TIGHT*
I'm not going to pretend I fully understand it all. Wiring is not really a strong point for me. But thanks for taking the time to put this together and your explanations. Have a good weekend.
Hi James what relays did u use? Thanks awesome video
Enjoying your videos.
I am not a plumber and watching how these things work is quite interesting.
I would be interested in seeing how zoning works in hydronic heating and what the minimum number of radiators would be needed in a zone.
I'd be interested in seeing what relays you would recommend for this application. (Make & Model Number)
Really good video pretty good at fault finding s and y plans but never knew what a relay did! Ever days a school day. Also agree the vlog type vids are great and the live q&A on the weekends are quality
Cheers dude. I have a hack planned . Two heat sources: I’m using a pair of old fridge compressors to pressurise reprocessed veg oil for burning through a .40 Kero jet. (It gets pumped and pressurised in to a calor bottle up to 120PSI variable though) Then out to the Jet via a final filter and fire valve to a boiler from an old gas fire. (Here exhaust heat is used to warm the oil (thinner is better for keeping pressures down. Bugger in cold weather and this is an outdoor system for safety reasons and hopefully for reprocessing dirty oil when required) Original plan was to heat the greenhouses and sheds, I got thinking. Existing household system is a combi. But if I install a thermal store I can run the HW of the oil burner. (The oil is free but processing and filtration is not, but still way cheaper to run if excluding my time) The here problem is keeping the combi plumbed in as back up should the oil system be off, fail and or be down for servicing. So it’s down to stats and a bi directional flow valve.
If it goes to plan then I may look at patching in to the CH in the future if it has the output that is.
Thanks loads. Keep it up!
Love the video, exactly the same problem I’m having and I came to the same conclusion I would need a relay. Any ideas what relays I could use? Any links or suggestions more than welcome 👍
Thanks James. The only relays I knew of , are the ones in cars, but never thought of or heard before about using them on a heating system.
Thanks for a really excellent video. Not only did you explain it really well but stopped me from making an almighty screw up as i install an underfloor heating system in my new extension.
Excellent content
Much appreciated
Just want to say a big thanks as it’s just explained everything so easy, I’ve just fixed an on going problem after watching this , found the issue after a whole day of trying to get the heating to work without the water being turned on, keep them coming 👍
Great video, I currently have plumbers in right now in my house and they've just added ufh to the system, but I still have some of the previous radiators upstairs. They asked me to order a relay but I like to know what stuff does, your vid has helped me (a non-plumber) a lot :) I do now wonder given your comments, if the fact they are having to use one indicates they are trying to fix a bad install in the first place, or is the realy THE only way to ix a scenario when HW, rads and ufh are shared supplies from a single boiler? Also, they only asked me to buy one relay rather than two, which they are adding to the manifold area ... should I be more worried?? (sigh!!)
James
I am wondering what will happen if the motorised valve is kept on radiators in winter to keep home warm
So my question is what will happen to the hot water
On s plan ?
Thanks
Would putting an auto bypass after the pump before the motorised valves have done the same thing? I know the pump would of still came on but would a by pass still of worked?
Yeah it would work but depending on the run length it will be sapping and wasting energy!
also the backfeed on the wiring will turn on ufh pump when its not needed also (if the heating was calling) so you would need another pressure bypass on the ufh side too!
Its far easier to just add a couple of relays in an adaptable box to stop the backfeed.
from what i can remember the grant vortex are really basic and dont have a pump overrun, so the live to the boiler is just sent to the boiler pump/system pump
and only sent to the burner if the boiler stat is set high enough and if the thermal cutout on the boiler is ok.
you could add a timer relay to run the system pump for 5 mins after the boiler is shutoff.
but the manufacturer clearly is not bothered as the boiler does not have this facility.
hope this helps dude.
Hi James, I have an old boiler in the utility room of a bungalow. It high up and fee comes in at roof level then down to each rad. I watch your balancing video where you close the valves then re-open a quarter turn and it hasn't seemed to work. Also when the heating is off I have one or two rads that stay warm all day. Any ideas? Got a video by any chance? Thanks!
Could be a motorised valve letting by...hard to say mate!
@@plumberparts yeah fair enough mate. Since I balanced the system it seems to be behaving itself better. I saw your video on that. Thanks and keep up the good work on here.
The best videos on here are Thi ones
Brilliant video :-) Quick question, Would you use a relay with a UHF manifold where there is no relay in the manifold itself? e.g. You dont have a second a two-port value and you are using the actuators to close and open the second zone?
Hi James I'm thinking of adding a comet fusion electric boiler on to my heat-pump as a parallel bivaliant could go through how you would do it? And would you add another vessel on to it to be safe.
Delayed Relays?
This is what I think I might need.
So, just installed Worcester danesmoor system utility. It has live for power and/or pump. I have nest controller. I ask for heating and it turns everything on, works a treat. My problem is once nest says it's up to temp it turns off the boiler and pump. What I want to happen is the boiler stop but pump continue to remove heat from the boiler itself and give it a bit more longevity.
I can't for the life of me work out how to do this with nest and boiler, my only thinking is to drop in a delay relay, so when power is cut the relay does not cut power for x minutes to the pump
Any suggestions? And great videos btw :). Cheers. Rich.
As well as making the pump over-run depending on your system you may also have to have a zone valve hold open. All in all could end up being more hassle than it’s worth.
Keep the system clean and inhibited, get it serviced annually. Oil boilers usually go forever if you take care of them
@@_______DR_______ thanks Dan, I'm possibly over worrying!
Haha! If it's oil they're built like TANKS!
If you really want to do it, you have two options, a time delay relay that will trigger on the signal to stop, but not all boilers have that. Or put a thermostat on the output pipe from the boiler and use an OR gate that will drive the pump when either the thermostat or the existing demand calls for it. If you want to use a standard thermostat (that provides closed circuit on demand) you might also need an inverter. most of these things run as low voltage, and then you'll need relays again...
Hi James.
Happy New Year all !Just thought it might be worth sharing that sometimes neutrals ARE switched (eg in a double-pole switch)? or when an installer does it wrong and we are fault-finding.
My old back boiler was wired with a switched neutral and caused problems when my old fuse box was updated to one with circuit breakers and an RCD.
Just my tuppence worth
I guess the question is how do you know when to use a relay though? iv wired up s plan systems with UFH as well and there’s been no relays, other systems iv done the manufacture shows you need a relay in the wiring diagram. I once had to add a UFH zone to a system that already had HW, X2 CH and another UFH zone, technical help said i didn’t need a relay but this makes me think i probably did…
I'm needing to replace my pump soon amd thinking of getting the wilo pico pump that you seem to be a fan of. Will the variable speed work with the standard bypass valve on my s plan system? Seen stuff online saying it won't give enough flow over the boiler when the valves close? Cheers
Might be a stupid question🙈
Defo not picking, appreciate u sharing the knowledge👍
what about pump over run for the boiler ? Did u fit another auto bypass after the new wilo pump
Did you ever figure our how to incorporate a pump overrun feature in to this design?
Thanks for the video response to my comment. I almost blushed 😁 Got a lot better understanding now. The visual on a light board would be great. Can you do a video on brexits 😉
Big time excellent video! Well communicated and executed.
Cheers mate!
Love videos like this as an apprentice - Keep it coming! :)
James. Great videos.
Should the pump signal not be instigated before the feed to the boiler, that way you can get flow moving through the heat exchanger before the burner ignites ? or am i over complicating things ?
My problem is old oil boiler 4 connections DHW / CH two pumps/ one Potterton controller . room stat and cylinder stat. Potterton can only fire on CH when DHW enabled.... want to change to Hive. separate relays for CH and DHW. Hive switches relays direct feed to pumps to get flow going. Power onto 2 port on CH, micro-switch makes and fires boiler.
Equally DH Hive switches through cylinder stat and pulls in relay which fires pump and boiler, question is should i put a 2 port on the HW like i did on the CH ?
reason i put 2 port on CH was i was getting heat in rad circuits when HW fired, think it was conduction in the water.
Do you think the problem will now be demand, if i have CH and HW demand on the same heat exchanger could i risk starving the DH cylinder recharge flow when CH is on ? or should i kill the 2 port CH valve when i have DH demand ?
OR ? should i change boiler to 2 connections and put a 3 port valve in ?????
All gone to pot. Boiler baffle support frame burnt away, baffles fell down infront of burner, litterally melted away. Shot to Sh*t . time for a new boiler get rid of pumps and rely on combi only !!!!
What relays did you use?
I learned something. Mission accomplished 👍🏻
Awesome video mate 👌
Great job of explaining relays.
I stand by what I said about your dad being a legend 😂
Great vid again James...really well explained ..thanks dude .👌👌👌👌
No worries bro...glad you enjoy!
Would it not be better to switch the live to the boiler with the relay, rather than the live to the pump? If the boiler is on but the pump not - wouldn’t you get a build up of pressure behind the pump? (Assuming the boiler has a pump in).
Shouldn’t the boiler have a low loss header or closed couple tees on it as the circuits designed flow is more than the designed flow for the boiler? (Especially the ufh mass flow)
The biggest point about relays is that they can switch a high voltage load with a low voltage signal, or vice versa.
19 thumbs down, can't appreciate a good sense of humour...:) If this channel is still active, is this set-up fairly the same for mobile homes, as well??? my hubby is a journeyman electrician, and feels our heater problem could be a relay switch issue, because it keeps shutting itsself off and on. Could that POSSIBLY withouut y'all looking at it, be the case???? it's a fairly old unit, but was working prior to this issue. And the a/c works??? but, I am dumb-founded, when it comes to electricity and plumbing, thanks so much!!!
Hi James could you point me in the right direction to some good quality fibre washer 15 and 22mmand also waste washer kits look on you selling page but could not find any thanks
smart tech screwfix/plum fix do good ‘plumbers first aid kits’ and washer kits with lots of handy stuff
Cheers mate, great vid.
Also James, often we call relays CONTACTORS. Just to save confusion ... LOL
This is the worst episode of Bob Ross ever . He didn’t even beat the devil out of it
Think I've got to get to grips with who Bob Ross is!
plumberparts hes an artist who used to be on tv in the 90’s. Great hangover viewing . Lots of his videos on RUclips . Bob Ross the joy of painting . Have a look and you will get it right away
@@plumberparts American Rolf Harris... #MakeYourOwnAssumptions
@@morganwarren-ross2114 He's up there with my faves....Gary Glitter and Jimmy Saville!
"little happy flowchart lives there"
Good video that 👌
Anyone know how to get this to work with a “pump overrun” signal from a boiler?
I assume one pump would need to be selected (one on a circuit that definitely has a bypass) but I believe the pump overrun is on BOTH when the boiler is running and for say 3m after
It’s a head scratcher 🤷🏻♂️
Why no EBay store? I bought a few bits from your Amazon store, as I like to support folks who make an effort. But Amazon are a PITA, I had my credit card cancelled as I'd paid a "flagged" vendor (another purchase from China). Happy days, I now use Amazon Gift Card to pay, but it's so much more effort than eBay.
Would be good to see a video using modulation control and digital controllers rather than relays? Love the non polarity of opentherm and modbus. Shame it’s not used more in the uk.
You really want 563 thousand subs
Omg! New video and I need to go to work. Catch up later Jimmy
Be careful, your slowly turning into an electrician. Could you do a bottom immersion without a drain down. I kinda wanna see how messy it is. And if you know of a big field somewhere. Would you kindly cap the vent on a vented and boil it some. I don't think it will blow as good as the unvented on myth busters, but it is almost the season to blow stuff up.
Why is your plumbing so different from us in South Africa
Wow when I heard you read out my name, I thought it was a great video but I did not comment on this one, did mind transfer happen ? til I saw it was another Richard Lyons
Thanks man
The hot water pump still sees live from boiler (when it's lived from the UHF - commoned at lower terminal of HW relay - even when the Programmer doesn't close that relay
No it doesn’t.
The HW pump will only activate when the HW programmer activates the relay.
The relay is a switch that closes the connection from the boiler to drive the HW pump. If the relay is off the live from the boiler isn’t connected to the HW pump.
Right?
Awsome video
nice vid butt why relays when you have systems that have all the stuff you need in a few parts. evo home from honeywell could do the trick way easier for ya and there are more systems wich does the same in holland
Heating Engineer/Sparks remit not plumbers tbf
I only seem to use relays when somebody (spark) has cocked up and created back feeding to controls and circulators.If a job is well speced and thought out they are normally not necessary.
Good thing about relays is there reliability.
Get a stabilizer on ya mum.... Brilliant! Reminds me of being at school
Good video for getting yourself out of the shit for not a lot of money. Well done 👍
Maybe if you draw relays using the normal symbol it would help the students.
Wish I’d not made the video now...😭😭😭😭
Wish I’d not made the video now...😭😭😭😭
plumberparts Don’t be upset! Everyone. Benefits from continuous improvement.Im learning stuff from your other videos.
You spitting at the whits board & me having a mouthful of porridge does not go well & not necessary.
you talk alot of motorised vavles wiring of them.surely as a plumber you must come across cases where the motorised valve is the problem ie there are highly restrictive as the water passes true them and resulting in the heating system working poorly?as a plumber myself I see this so many times maybe do a video on ways around this problem.hold tight 😁
Tom Thumb fit a 28mm zone valve into your 22 pipe, restriction gone mate.
@@MrRctintin unfortunately that makes next to no different as the vast majority of motorist vavles are pretty much the same inside weather 3/4 or 1" motorists vavles
I've being in many a house with 1" motorised vavles same old problem
It be nice to see a video done for his viewer to over come this problem
That's why I prefer S-Plan as the valve bodies are generally less restrictive...
@@plumberparts I've removes many an s plan system as the system just isn't working as it should this be more so on larger houses 15 20 rads plus
@@K-carbon So what do you install instead? Low loss headers and control pumps? Just interested! 😎
Why are you drawing an "S" plan on the board and then you show viewers a "Y" plan valve, you should be showing viewers a 2 port zone valve with microswitch.
Secondly, there was an easier way to fix your naff system, move the pump back to the boiler split the flow between the airing cupboard and the underfloor heating and install an auto bypass for pressure-flow issues, you could have also fitted a balancing valve to the flow to the UFH circuit so upstairs is not robbed of flow when all circuits are operating. You then wouldn't have needed to install a second pump and all your fandangled relays, the job would have been quicker and cheaper for the client.
What you have done works but it's a little OTT.
Sorry for being alive! Ffs!
@@plumberparts Calm down chap, just keeping you honest.....lol......... I have a theory you are trying to create chaos in the DIY world so plumbers get a surge in work.....good lad!! Bad winter coming so you won't need it ..lol..chill.
Is that T shirt tight or have you been working out!
Your shrinking dude.
That's too complicated , call the sparks
Great vid really appreciate it .... though some picky fuckers in the comments!!! 😂
Gobby git!
I am guessing his age his 38
You really want 563 thousand subs