Audio Summing Explained
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- NYC producer/engineer Love Science Music explains what summing is and how it's different between an analogue console and within software.
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Thank you so much! I've been recording for a living 5 years now and literally just now am hearing about Summing. This is very interesting and thank you for introducing this to me
You’re welcome! Yea you should try summing a mix and see what you think
Thank you for clearing this up for me. 🙏🏼
No prob
Best video on youtube explaining this for an analog gear laymen such as myself. Thank you!
Great video Thank you!
Thank you
I love the smirk when you say "high quality audio gear "and make a gesture toward the Api console. AS YOU SHOULD SIR! I wouldn't be able to help myself either- just shows that you love it! great video - Thanks!
Well Done
Concise and clear , with space to digest your points
Like a good mix .
All the videos I watched. This was the best explanation in my opinion. I have a far better understanding.
Thank you for getting to the point. These other videos need to follow your lead.
Cheers!
you explain things very nicely
Thanks man, great info! 🙂
You’re welcome!
Dude! You Rock! This was so helpful, thank you, thank you!
you're very welcome
Your the first that explains its roll I though it was like a plug-in and just colors sound thanks for creating this video! Now I just need to figure out if I want API or NEVE summing I work in the box with Luna 🎼🎼🎼
Great job explaining this subject.Thanks.
Beautiful words ❤
Cheers!
I feel educated..😁
great demonstration
This is a great video, great explanation! I am moving over to Daw and setting up a hybrid workstation with a bunch of rack equipment, and while trying to sort this all out I am finding videos where very good engineers are speaking highly of mixing in the box, without even the help of analog summing boxes. Makes it difficult to make a decision on final architecture and flow.
I hear amazing sounding records done both ways. Ears matter more than summing
Great explanation....Thanks
Great video explaining summing
Thanks!! You told the truth!! Fatman Sound system from the UK has some videos of dances on here. That separation that you just spoke about, you'll hear it when they play the pre-digital reggae music. Plus, I think he still might still be using his old valve amps. When they place the speakers in all four corners of the room you just fall into middle of the music. One love!!
Merci! Very clear explanation.
🤙🏽
Having said that, whats a good summing mixer ? For the last example you said
🍻
You explained this far better than any other videos I’ve watched. 👍🏽
But its wrong
Thank you!
No prob
Great vid
thank you for this.. I didn't know..
Yeah. best explaintion
Great stuff..
Cheers
Nicely said
Cheers
thank you.
My pleasure
thanks for the easy explanation. i hear tutorials speak about summing and i always think "what is summing" I just call it a mixdown but thats because i have always been digital. cheers
Yea usually the term ‘summing’ is used when there’s analogue gear involved in the process. If it’s all digital it’s a bounce. Both are a mix down
Thank You 🙌🙌Very Helpful Video🔥🔥.
Thanks!
Thanks
He got summing to say for real
Great video! Cheers
Thank you guy
Thanks !! Great video !
Great explanation, thank you! How much of that console sound, percentage wise, would you say one could get at home by running all stems through a pair of rackmount API channel strips, but with no summing mixer? Do you think the actual summing stage imparts most of the sonic benefit, or are the individual channel components contributing the bulk of it before the summing takes place?
Hey Josh, I just started putting my home studio back together and was thinking of adding this old Teac 3 mixer that I have as a summing mixer. It then goes through my Tascam model 12 into studio one and out to a cassette deck. Once I have the master on cassette, I put it back into the computer and turn it into an MP3. I’ve only worked on one song so far with all of this in place, but the results are night and day. I tried working exclusively in the box and it always sounds like garbage. Most of the guys who get exposure pushing working only in a Daw are usually surrounded by thousands of dollars of outboard gear. Just saying.
That’s a cool and unique setup, props to you for working that way. There’s a number of guys who do pretty stunning mixes through in the box setups, so I think it’s genuine for those who say that’s their workflow. For me when i started doing analogue summing my mixes instantly got better so I was sold on it.
Some ppl are just good at explaining certain things. U knocked it out of the park for me.
Interesting presentation, thank you.
I remember the bad old days, endlessly battling thermal noise, resistor noise, power supply hum, tube 'singing', the list goes on.
Digital solved all of those problems, now you miss the 'warm' sound of analogue circuit elements doing their dance.
The really interesting part is that most of you who miss it weren't there !
I was.
Sure, there's a certain charm to it all, but the headaches sure outweigh the fond memories.
Recently I modeled a 6SN7GT in software as a plugin, put 16 of 'em in Cakewalk as mic. preamps, got a nice -90 dB noise floor complete with thermal hiss, high T.H.D. etc., on the output bus, then I looked at myself and said ......WHY ?
Yea, todays work flow is for sure faster and more efficient. Sometimes people come in wanting to record to our Studer tape machine. But when most people understand how differently the session flow will be they end up saying… nah Nevermind 😂
Well explained.
Nice content !!!
Thank you.
Thanks for the video. In the box we might have 5 different FX bus, delays/reverbs and etc. Would you send all fx buses to 1 FX bus on the console/summing box? Thanks
I keep my FX Aux channels in the box, but i assign the outputs to the board. For example, my vocal reverb exists as an Aux buss in protools, but I’ll assign the output of that fx channel to the same channels on the board that the vocals are going to. So the FX gets summed through the console along with the instrument it’s being used on 👍🏽
@@lovesciencemusic Thank you!! That make sense. I purchased a 16 channel summing box but I haven’t got around to hooking things up. That was one thing I been wondering about.
but how much better does it sound? is it as significant as 480p to 4k difference in image quality if we were to compare sound to picture or is it more like 1080hd to full 1080hd? because if its only a slight boost in quality and its gonna be formatted to mp3 at the very very end then will it really matter? i seen summing gear for thousands so the question is do those thousands make sense for the average user or should it be for people who are working on major projects like commericals, film, and the such.
It might not make sense for the average user to be honest. But for pros who mix a lot it might could be an option. For me, my mixes sounded better quicker once i started summing through a board. I had worked in the box for years so had no reason to switch. I also happen to work in studios that have summing options, so it was available for me to use.
Good explanation. I already knew about the whole saturation process, but I wasn't aware of the stereo imaging and depth of fields being processed differently in an analog mixer.
How does it work let's say on a 16 channel mixer going through and audio interface as a 2 track recording?
Well you’ll need an interface with the number of channels you want to sum. So for a 16 channel mixer you’d need a 16 channel interface. Outputs of the DAW would be 1-16 to the mixer, it sums a two track mix, then you print that back to DAW and monitor it
Mixer only has stereo out@@lovesciencemusic
Good info thanks
.....and there you have it ladies and gentleman. GREAT EXPLANATION!
cheers homie
thx
Is there a rack mount summing unit you'd recommend if you don't have a console? I see a lot of interest in the Neve summing mixer. Thx for any guidance, take care
If i was going to buy one I’d go with Neve for a more colored sound, and maybe Dangerous for a cleaner sound
So this is why my PLUGINS isn't doing JUSTICE! LOL. The TRUTH hurts, but it is exactly what the YOUNGSTER needed to hear!!
Most people these days don’t use analogue summing though, so it’s def not necessary for great sounding mixes. I just like the sound of it and have been lucky to work in spaces where I could use it, and it has improved the sound of my mixes so I’m a fan
Thanks that was good. So where does the analog summing tracks get recorded to? Digital? So what’s the actual analog chain? Analog, digital, analog? For the analog summing I mean. 😊
If you’re mixing: from the DAW outputs > summing mixer (DA) > mixer stereo outs > DAW (AD). It prints a stereo track into the DAW, then export the stereo track
What’s the top three best summing rack mount units you’ve used / you love the sound of?
Honestly, I haven't used a ton of summing mixers, maybe 2 or 3. The best sounding one I've used is the Dangerous 2 Bus. If I was in the market to buy one, I'd prob take a look at the Dangerous, a Neve (Portico or 8816), or the Shadow Hills
Thanks great explanation! So... I better start saving up for at least a rack mount summing mixer! :) I use the Tascam Model 24 as my interface, which is also a 24 channel analogue mixer...maybe I should start using for the final summing of my mixes...rather than mixing in the box with Logic! Thanks again
Ooh def try mixing to the Tascam 👍🏽
Great video. How can the digital summing be improved?
..thanks a lot,,
@5:03 "Until you hear these back to back you wont really know that that's a thing". Then proceeds NOT to let us hear the difference. (facepalm) Cool guy though, and good explanation.
you wouldnt even be able to tell a difference thanks to youtube compression.
How does the console actually sum?
I don’t know the technical process, but the 32 individual channels must be passing through some sort of set of stereo bus
I am still learning about this "analog summing approach." Quick honest question:
After you send the stereo track from the summing mixer back into the DAW to make the final print, does the DAW squeeze the analog sound back to a "digital" sounding flavor, wouldn't that defeat the purpose? Thanks in advance for your response. Thank you so much for this video.
Hey man, analog summing is desirable because each track gets saturated/colored by the circuitry. In the video you see an API desk, it's one of the famous one along the SSL, NEVE, ISA desks and there are probably others. That's the reason (+the workflow) that you see channel strips emulations plugins always being sold and being popular. These "colours" are often better when they're there. Saturation happens naturally in the air in a room with live music, so it needs to be added on records, it's a very useful tool
What's he's also saying that I didn't know, is that depth of feel and the stereo imaging is better. I knew that panning is kind of a volume illusion in a DAW, but I didn't know that it was different on a desk console/summing mixer. I wonder how big the difference is and how the process happens. If anyone knows, hit me up!
@@youngselfofficial893 Hello bro, thank you so much for your reply. The feel and the stereo imaging are the qualities that I am after. I've been mixing in the box for years and I'm ready to go hybrid with real analog summing gear. My rolls folcrum summing just arrived. It's going to be an interesting journey from here. Thank you for your response. I appreciate that very much.
@@leonmaxi7094 No problem, always fun to talk about gear lol,
I looked the fulcrum up, looks cool! although I wished there were gain and pan controls on it... What's your setup to get your tracks out of your DAW and the sum back in? I'm currently looking up how to do it myself !
No, the the DA is not perceivable to me. What is gained by summing far outweighs any quality lost by conversion
I'm a total newbie so this may be a newbie question, but does bouncing get done during the recording process or when does this actually happen and same with summing. When do these processes actually occur? Is summing the same thing as ping ponging but taking something from digital to analog?
Bouncing or printing happens when you need a stereo version of it to listen to or take home. So at the end of a session, end of mix or master. Not sure about ping ponging, that’s what delays do
its still not clear for me what it should be set to when recording
what do you mean?
"analog is better because its analog"
lmao right
"The analog sounds better"
@TacoTacoTacoTaco try harder new friend
Analogue is smoothTastic
My ears are analog 👍👍👂
great video.. I wonder why is analog better or "wider" than digital? hmmm
It's called phase.
Anything done inside the box is pure mathematical calculations. Anything outside the box you are dealing with voltages.
“The more circuits you hit, the better it sounds.” Ok mate.
I meant capacitors
I noticed everything on the console channels you have, are in stereo. Or at least la else that way. Panned hard L-R I’m assuming. Is there a reason for that?
That’s just one way to set your outputs from the DAW to the board. When I do it this way, I may have say 5 different synths assigned to a stereo channel on the board. I’ll do the finer panning in protools before it hits the board.
Another way to do it would be to assign each track in the session to the board and pan on the console. But with that way, there are only 32 channels on the board to work with and most mix sessions have way more tracks than that
@@lovesciencemusic Ok cool 😎. Got cha 👌
elle est patate ta chaîne très pro
3:45 😂
"the more circuit you hit the better it sounds" There are so much wrong or incomplete in this sentence...end then, a lot of mumbo jumbo.....depth stereo width.......Im so tired........
NO. Nothing to do with bouncing. It come from a audio having a floating point representation of sound levels from -1 to 1. When you multiply all the channel values together the cant go over 1 or -1.
Watching to the middle of the vídeo and summing and mixing are still the same thing for me...
I don’t buy it. Bringing your digital mix into a console or summing mixers requires DAC for each signal. The more channels, the bigger impact analog summing will have? Well now you’re also mixing 60 channels of sub-par converters which could be more degenerative to the signal than whatever magic the summing does anyways… you’re essentially mixing together a bunch of converters!
Mmm not really. If you don’t have sub par converters then you don’t audibly degrade audio quality. The summing adds more sonic character than the conversion takes away
Ok, so it’s just a mix down.
Yep, through analogue gear
More like 6 guitars
7?
I am taking your word for it on the worst piece of audio and video I have ever seen? And you don't play an example? I think you really don't understand summing.
I understand what sounds better to me, and i shared my opinion. Sorry there’s no audio examples for you sir
soooooooooo it's a bus...
Yes
no shit Sherlock! ;)
Thank you