Jaw movement you probably weren't aware of !
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- This video explains, and shows chuck jaw movement during clamping. I offer suggestions and reasons for the best setup for grinding your jaws to achieve the best results. If you plan to grind your jaws, you might want to watch this video.
I wish I had you as a teacher in my younger machining days. At 60, I basically had to learn things the hard way....lol. I love your style. Keep up the craft......From Dallas
Thank you
Joe - you're like the machinist-detective. Love these videos, as they show us the issues. we often overlook or don't even realize.
Hey Brad. Its good to have a full arsenal of details. I think it helps solve problems they cause if your aware of them. Hows the heat in your new shop holding up?
Another topic that was explained in a clear and concise manner which is easy for anyone to comprehend. Nice work Joe! Thank you for your willingness to share your knowledge as well as the time and energy that you invest in doing so. You are very much appreciated.
Hey Jeffrey, thanks for the comment. How are the boys doing?
The youth are doing well. We have both boys and girls age 5 on up and you would be amazed by the interest the young ones and especially the girls show in machining and simply making things in general, whereas it seems the older ones take a little while to get into that aspect of the project.
Thats awesome. Inspiring a young mind is something that can only end well. Way to go. Tell the girls, they rock!
Merry Christmas to you and yours. If this channel had started sooner it would already be in the big 10 of machine shop channels (as indicated by subscribers). The other guys can give you a high school diploma in machining but Joe Pi can give you a PHD. I forgot to mention that I have seen the ring around the chuck thing before several times and it always left me with that uncomfortable feeling that something was being done backwards but who am I to question the experts.
Now, you not only know you were right, but now you know why. Trust your gut. Thank for your comment.
Thanks Joe. Another great tip. I thank you for your efforts to share your vast knowledge. It helps immensely. Your presentation methods are spot on. Your dialogue is precise and to the point. It’s also fantastic that you take the time to not just talk about the subject, but you demonstrate in in a real setting, on pertinent equipment. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to share.
Thank you.
Fully agree! I really enjoy that the tips apply to basic machining operations, yet would only be discovered through much experience. Great stuff!
Alot of prep obviousely went into this video. Thank you for taking the time!
Well done again Joe thanks for your time really enjoy your shows.
Brilliantly explained Joe - nice demo.
Thanks Joe, I ground my jaws last year, with a ring at the back as you described... and of course was horrified to find, it did not fix the problem. This video explains why! And I thank you for that. I will try your groove idea, this will save me buying a new 3 jaw chuck, Thanks!
Happy holidays! Learning alot from your videos. I wanted to thank you for taking the time to share your wealth of knowledge!!!
Thanks Joe Have a good Christmas and prosperous new year
And Four Jaw Chucks do all of the same things. One reason where possible I much prefer collets if possible. Although I realize that is not an option for most shops over a certain size.
Your whiteboard and cardboard jaws demo-brilliant!
I just happen to have giant wooden jaws laying around so I decided to use them. Glad you liked it.
Merry Christmas and a happy and prosperous new year , Thanks you for the informative videos this year please keep them coming .
Yours from the other side of the pond
Nick
Just like a spinning, 3-jaw vise: don't clamp just on one side.
On a hobby lathe/mill/drill several years ago, I was making a spacer to mount a QCTP. I had some 1 1/2" stock to use up. Drilled the through hole, very happy...until I pulled it out of the chuck and the exit hole on this 4" long piece was over 0.250 off center.
Took me quite awhile to trace that the scroll had literally bent in that spot (thanks Hercules) for the one jaw. I may still have that work piece. If I can find it, I'll email you a photo.
Thank you for the theory. It is always better for me to understand the theory and not just go through the motions because someone said so.
Very Informative. Thank you for the continued uploads Joe!
In the future can you kindly do a video on how to offset a 4 jaw chuck to create holes on center., as well as how to find the center of an already created hole with a dial test indicator.
ruclips.net/video/WCei5GlEZ5g/видео.html Check this one out.
Hi Joe,
Pretty busy around here for the Holidays.....
I wish to you and your family a Happy Holiday time, Pierre
Merry Christmas to you and yours from Norway
Once again, fantastic vid, very clear and concise, thanks so much for your time you put into these tutorial vids. #1 on my YT list of machining tips vids, thanks Joe.
Thank you.
Computer engineer here, and very amateur machinist. Lathe only, at the local makerspace...
This is actually the jaw movement I'd expect. There's always some flex in the movable (and fixed!) jaws of a bench vise, I wouldn't expect lathe chuck jaws to be any different. Everything can bend, just like every circuit has parasitic resistances, inductances, and capacitances! Everything also changes size with temperature, so if you're trying for extremely high precision (submicron lapped surfaces) you'll need to keep the temperature constant. I'm sure there are other parasitic effects out there, but I don't know how relevant they'll be for most machining.
Another great explanation and demonstration!
Joe i have 16 die grinders cr,ir ,aircat ,blue point,eagle and 1 snap-on, the snap-on has been sent in twice both time's for bearings the first time it didn't run for a hour second time it was bad out of the box so i disassembled, the bearings were from china and of very poor quality , snap-on was going to send it back for repairs i opted to replace the bearings myself and so far it is still working FYI . HAPPY HOLIDAYS and thank you for the informative teaching video's
Hi Joe. Thanks for the review, fear not...snap-on now owns Sioux air tools. Sioux tools make the grinder. happy Holidays to you too.
Hi Joe, another good video. Have watched it a couple of times to try and understand the purpose of the spider and how to use it. Any further info/ a short video explanation would be greatly received.
Andy
Its used for soft jaw boring. I have had other requests for clarification and may post a video to show it. Thanks for the comment.
Very interesting demonstration. Definitely something I'm going to test on my chuck jaws.
Hope you and your family have a very merry xams!
Thanks for sharing neighbor
Merry Christmas Neil.
Merry Christmas right back at you Joe.
Thanks for the vid, I never considered that the jaws would kick out.
Always the straight info. Thanks again for a well thought out presentation.
Hi Joe
A very nice eye-opener for small details - nice !
A Merry Xmas and a Happe New Year to you and yours too !
From
Keld in Denmark
Another excellent video! Merry Christmas!!! Chris
Great Video Joe. I am getting closer to having a look at my lathe three jaw chuck, (need to finish the internal grinding attachment) this is the direction I am planning to go.
However I have one more twist to the tale and if I am correct I think a can negate almost 100% of the pitfalls in this process. I will keep you posted if you are interested.
Cheers from John, Australia.
Thank you for this video, Joe. A Merry Christmas to you & yours. :-)
Yes, I agree completely. Please, what are your techniques on 4 jaw chuck truing?
Thanks for sharing your expertise, I always find it clean, precise, and never boring.
ruclips.net/video/WCei5GlEZ5g/видео.html This may help
I'm sorry, I was asking in the context of this video and grinding the jaws true.
Happy Holidays Joe , all the best for the new year
another great video. merry christmas.
Fred from the U.K.
Enjoy Stay upright good biking
Will
thanks Joe, merry Christmas!
And a Merry Christmas to you too.
Merry Christmas Joe to you and all you hold dear and a Happy New Year
Thanks Joe! Deck the Halls with Holly! Cheers!
Hi joe I would gladly work in your shop for nothing other than to gain some of your knowledge Keep up the great videos cheers from New Zealand
Good info. Merry Christmas
Your Good !!! Nice video Sir
I'd like to see a video on leveling the table/frame
And a video on setting up the tailstock. LIKE I'VE SAID MANY TIMES BEFORE TO PEOPLE YOU CAN'T ADJUST WHAT'S WORN OUT !! but that's just me. ALL THE BEST TO YOU AND YOURS SIR.
Great vid Joe. Thanks for posting it.
very good info, thanks for the lesson.
very usefull info. Enjoy watching you.
I spring my jaws from the front with a Delrin rod and hot glue the jaws in place. after the glue sets i remove the rod and then grind. All the best in the New Year! CHEERS
How do you remove the glue?
Joe Pieczynski It comes off very easy with an X-ACTO knife.
Thanks Joe Merry Christmas
Thanks Joe Keep the videos coming!!
This is awesome I was just thinking this very thing because I found a metal ring that would be perfect that I made a long time ago and then I thought there's going to be wiggle in the opposite direction and then I sit down and this is the first video I see you after that
I've always cut a taper in soft jaws on a cnc. When preparing a second op I always give my jaws a fresh skim, clamp the part at the pressure I'm going to use and check with a .001-.0005 feeler shim. One of the older guys dykems his part to verify solid contact. I only ever ran one engine lathe where we used soft jaws and they were less there to clamp the part and more there to center it for keeping it concentric while we finished it, and the pie jaws only had a .1 depth and we drove the part to the chuck with the tail stock.
So whats your opinion on a longer part where you are clamping completely through the jaws? It will still deflect the jaw and can cause damage on the surface of softer materials like aluminum? I'm sure its tougher to get a small taper to cut than on a cnc.
Thanks for the grinding tip, worked great for me.
I like your videos better than any of the others I have found here because I always learn something of value. That being said, would you be able to give an actual demonstration of how to grind the jaws?
Nice bit of teaching. I've got a lot to learn!
There is endless material. I'm still learning.
GREAT VIDEO !!!
One thing worth mentioning is, clamping force. All for not if you're not using the same clamping force for the truing as you are for actual part turning. Likewise, the top jaw mounting screw torque should be checked, corrected and replicated when removing/replacing jaws.
Also a good idea to true at or near the critical speed (jaw & chuck assembly) due to centrifugal forces, which cause the jaws to lose some of their clamping force at high speeds.
Very true with CNC lathes and big parts.
@@joepie221 Full true. Hard to replicate as in CNC, due you never get it in the same clamping force again. +- few % do its thous. Big parts always live their own life =)
could you make a tutorial on how to make the spyder. id like to make one myself sorry if i butchered the name.
Best wishes to you for Christmas and new Year
Preloading with a ring in the rear is terrible. It is a pain to get centered true and causes serious bell-mouthing unless the pressure is extremely light. It is also a pain to grind without hitting it unless a carriage stop is used. With solid jaws I used a piece of thin walled pipe/tube for both me 3 and 4 jaw chucks as close to the internal diameter of the chuck as possible. I milled the corresponding number of slots in a semi- uniform spacing round the pipe, hence 3 slots for the 3 jaw and 4 for the 4 jaw. Then I cut the pipe so the slots crowned leaving one end open and the slots about 3/4". I could then slide this unit past all my jaw teeth to rest behind them on the blank in the bottom of the jaws. This allowed me to apply enough load by a spring type set-up without any of the jaws interfering with the other like a solid mount or ring method. Worked damn good, but the down fall is the grinding has to be kept light. This was not a problem since I used an air powered pencil grinder. Take time, get it correct, beats a rush job of close enough, then do it again cause it's not good enough. I may have missed it if you mentioned it, but I try to grind my jaws at the widest opening possible. Great video, as always.
I've seen this done. Its a great way to do it.
@@joepie221 Joe could you do a video on doing it that way please?
I see what you wrote but can't visualise it in my head. Do you have video showing it?
Merry Christmas!
hey Joe, a question that comes up with these videos and that will probably pop up on yours is a concern about the concentricity of the rings some people use, of the spider you use I suppose.
some think that an imperfect ring will lead to an imperfect grind on the jaws, I would think that as long as enough force is applied to each jaw to remove the mechanical slop but not enough force is applied to cause the material of the chuck to deform its all good.
whats your take on that?
The ring is only for equal jaw resistance. Concentricity of the ring has nothing to do with the grind. Definitely do not over torque the chuck to the point of body deformation.
Joe Pieczynski. thank you Joe, thats what my common sense told me.
Hi, I have a new lathe and my 3 jaw runs out 15 hundredths of a millimeter. I have checked the baking plat and itis true. Please can you tell me what to do to fix this problem
Thats a good idea with the ring cut into the jaws Joe but if you dont want to cut the jaws a bloke called Matthew Tinker has a good alternative thats worth looking at
joe how about setting up all your lathe /mill setup and tips videos and putting them in a download or a disc. i am a beginning gunsmith looking to improve my machining skills but there is no way i can afford classes, so these videos are how i learn.
Just read the gunsmiths reply. Like to just see the gun person get a job in a shop. Then learn how to machine. Instead of hack and burn someone's hard earned money
And how is TheOldGunsmith58 hacking and burning someone's hard earned money? All he did was ask if there was a download or CD of the videos. Youre a dumbass.
most likely the guy is smart enough not to wreck somebody's firearrm...
He probably knows the limit of his capability. Quality machine tools are imperative for close tolerance work.
When the jaws are cut to accept a ring, what type of ring should be used and where may it be obtained?
Thank You
I bet msc has them. My shop has a set about every 0.06 increase from 3 inch to maybe 1 inch
also when you measure the jaw movement (my speculation again) wouldn't you need to make sure the indicator tip was as close to the inside edge of the jaw or at least the same exact spot laterally on the jaw face? also measuring the deflection of all 3 jaws as each are worn a little differently.
closest to the inside edge to measure the actual deflection on the inside of the jaw as the center of the jaw will deflect much more than the outer diameter.
hard to find the right wording for what I'm trying to say but I think u catch my drift without me using the technical terms
or could you actually indicate the part mating surface of the jaw reliably instead of the front face?
The point of measuring was to demonstrate the point about how the jaws deflect differently depending on where you locate the ring, not to ascertain an actual displacement. If you are checking a scroll, you check the jaws in various positions (bigger diameter parts being held) to see if the movement is different. If it is the same, then the wear is uniform on the chuck body and jaws and a regrind can be done anywhere. If the measurements vary at different diameters, then you chuck body is worn unevenly and regrinding can only be done effectively at one diameter, or you have to scrap the chuck (unless you are Stefan Gotteswinter and are prepared to remachine your entire chuck and make all new jaws).
Good points Barry. That's why I suggested repeating this demonstration with different size rings to pinpoint the areas of wear and which components are causing it. Excellent comment.
Barry Gerbracht I got that, but also was thinking the whole point of understanding deflection is to successfully grind the jaws to maximise the surface mating to the part. so ascertaining an actual displacement is would add useful information to this tutorial.
also I was just stating I'm sure the two indicator measurements were ballpark or representative of what's happening with the jaw, but to be certain the measurement was taken on the same spot of the jaw face the indicator should have been moved away from the jaw perpendicularly instead of in the y axis.
So your saying if the meter moves at all it's worn or is there a specific number we are looking for???
I think the awareness is most important. Excessive movement should be evaluated.
I would like to know are see the spiter in operation bit confused thanks
If you can be more specific, I may be able to assist you.
"Lift and separate" Who else immediately recalled that Playtex bra advert? Fnaar, fnaar, wibble, giggle, titter.
Jane Russel?
@@joepie221 A few decades later.
Ohhhh !! Dead !! SET !! NOW !! THAT !
Am I the only one who says "Joe Pieczynski!" with Boo's voice from Monsters Inc?
Mind poison, you all will never watch one of his videos the same again :)
Great video BTW
Hey, Monsters inc. is one of my favorite movies.
Well you do know What they say if your not Happy about it ! ! Don't you ! Joe ! Pie ! Man !!
The soft jaw setter was a duh moment instead of looking through the scrap and small stock parts looking for the right soze
Used one quite a bit at my old job. Also, when you start getting down to smaller diameters, just cut like a half inch long piece of round stock and drill and tap a hole in one side. The stock will hit two jaws and the third side is adjustable with a screw.
What about spinnig it fast +/-1600 rpm without a load or ring in order to to grind it. Tge centripetal force on the jaws should 'Kick' it out also. Results are probably better than reverse loading (ring on the od) the Chuck to grind it.
I would not suggest that. You need a load on the jaws or the results will be disappointing. That kind of RPM without a load on the jaws is a recipe for disaster.
That is what I recently did a couple of weeks ago - at 2000rpm. I did find I had the newly installed vfd set to accelerate too fast, as every time I re-started the lathe, the scroll turned a little and changed my grinding diameter! Texta (sharpie) marks on the chuck key sockets proved that. After increasing the starting ramp time, that problem went away.
(I got the "spinning it fast" idea from XYNUDU - who has a great series of videos on RUclips).
I wouldn't allow that practice in my shop.
Merry Christmas
:)
Yeah but if NASA did it my way it would work out well.
I've actually contributed parts to many shuttle missions.
Well, who better to ask.
thats why 4 jaw is better than 3 jaw
I bet it happens there too. Just a hunch.
Same issue, same results. Doesn't matter how many jaws.
4-jaw will hold square parts. also, more accurate than 3-jaw. Most machinists have more than one set of jaws.
try to hold hex stock in your 4 jaw
When I did one of mine I chucked a ball bearing near the front and bored a shallow pocket into the face of the jaws after truing them up. This holds a ring for grinding and gives me a nice fixture for facing thin washer and spacers. Thanks for demonstrating physics and cause & effect - something I see lacking in many videos and methods.
Merry Christmas!
Hey Joe, I'm sure you've heard this a thousand times, but I really appreciate you sharing this kind of information with me anyway, as I've always been the "why" guy! Why does it do this, Why does it do that? Your explanation on the results of what will happen based on setup makes total sense to me! Now when I get ready to grind my jaws, they should turn out a lot closer than what other's have posted!! Merry Christmas to you and your family! Razor!
Great info...Merry Christmas Joe!
Merry Christmas to you and yours!
Merry Christmas, many excellent points in this video. I would like to touch on a few more points sometime on this based on my experiences. Keep the vids coming, I enjoy!
good lesson thanks joe ,
Merry Christmas, Joe!
Thanks Joe - another Awesome video!
Hey Joe, Excellent educational video as always! It is great to learn the WHY along with the HOW. Your channel has busted several myths for me. I've seen others use a hex nut with bolts every other flat section as a spider. Where can I find the steel ring that you use?
I made it out of a piece of thick wall pipe. 3/8-16 tapped holes every 120 degrees.
Joe,
Merry Christmas to you and yours, good to see you bring up the " spider" which I always used 40 or so years ago, l'm glad you are passing good info. to the machinists.
john
Hi John. I lost my Father back in 2001. he was a brilliant electronic engineer. When he passed, I thought what a shame it was that he took so much valuable knowledge with him that will never be spoken. This RUclips contribution is small, but I hope it helps the guys that need it. Old School Rocks ! Thanks for the comment.
Thanks for yet another educating video. I have a brand new chuck but checking it up will be interesting.
I wonder what the target should be for worn jaws. You can't grind the jaws to good alignment for both the cases, grabbing a long object well, the entire depth of jaw being in contact with the stock, and a short grip, only some 1/2 inch or of jaw depth being in contact with a short object. The amount of distance that the jaws "rises" will be different as well as the grinding angle in the attach of the bended jaw. What do You say?
Good video Joe I hope you had a Merry Christmas & all the best in the New Year.
I did. Thank you. Always good to see my kids smile.
Great Demo Joe. Thank you and Merry Christmas.
This explains why I was having problem grinding the jaws. I am a REAL newcomer to machining and enjoy the reasons why things are done the way they are done. I am learning a lot from your channel. Merry Christmas
I ground my three chuck jaws while spinning the lathe at high speed. Centrifugal force acted on the jaws in a way similar to the force of a part against the jaws as they are tightened. This gave excellent results. Thanks for the informative videos.
Merry Christmas, Joe.
Great tips. Thanks.
John
First up Joe.... Merry Christmas to you and your s. Excellent video. As a newbie to machining, I had this same problem with the 3 jaw chuck. whereby I could not get consistent results. After a tool and die maker told me the same thing as you just explained, by supporting the back of the chuck, made all the difference in the world. The smaller parts were always the worst. Thanks again for the video
Thanks! joe. Hope your Christmas is marry. I made a chuck concentricity collet (from your other video) worked very well. Thanks for the plans also have been gathering aluminum to make two of them, one for my dad and one for myself. Thanks for the myth busting.
Another thing I hadn't thought about. Like so many things, obvious when you think about it ( or someone else tells you ). I have to admit to the ring at the back of the jaws in the past but now I'm converted. Fortunately it is very hard to forget information like this, so thank you for another useful video.
Merry Christmas and a happy new year ( with more videos! )
Good information, Joe. Would like to wish you and your family Merry Christmas, and great New Year.
great timing on this video, I was going to tackle my Chuck over the holidays, thanks, and Merry Christmas to you and yours
Another great video, it's full of common sense solutions that many of us overlook! Merry Christmas to you and yours.
You think of everything
I've hunted down many gremlins over the years.