The Resurrection of Jesus Christ: Historical Fact vs Faith
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2024
- Today I'm joined again by the wonderful Dr Bart Ehrman to discuss Christianity's inciting incident: the resurrection of Jesus Christ, in preparation for his upcoming debate on the topic against Mike Licona.
Dr's Ehrman and Licona are about to engage in a 7 HOUR throwdown on the historicity of Jesus' resurrection. This isn't your average debate! Register now and get lifetime access to the debate recording, Q&A recordings, access to the online learning course (available in May) with PDF lesson guides, audio downloads & additional reading lists.
Register for the debate here and get early bird pricing until April 3rd! emmathorne--eh...
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It's such a good thing to have Bible scholars who are not Christians, it frees them up from so much bias.
I would have thought studying holy books and real religious history in unbiased critical way, would tend to lead you away from all "organised" religions.
How can modern Christians come to terms burning people at the stake for "heresy"?
Clearly it is not the same religion as people hold today, at least one would hope.
They get to claim whatever they like ..
Atheists.. What "Unbiased" Bible scholars they make!!
"Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled Atheist"
Richard Dawkins
@@psychologicalprojectionist "How can modern Christians come to terms burning people at the stake for "heresy"?
I don't know what "Modern Christians" are as the only people who are Christians are Born Again Children of God's Eternal Kingdom in Spirit and in Truth as Jesus commanded his followers to be from the BEGINNING of his ministry..
@@josephthinn3900 Did you compose that comment by pulling words out of a hat at random?
@@josephthinn3900Ahh, do I detect the "No true Scotsman fallacy".
Modern Christians are living people who, if you ask them, identify themselves as Christian.
But if you are a follower of "new improved" Christianity, and you believe there are people who think they are Christian, but aren't. Surely you have to hold the possibility that you are also not a true Christian.
Similarly, in sporting terms, I sometimes entertain the idea that the sportsball team that I support is not "by far the greatest team, the world has ever seen".
It's a process I like to call thinking.
Bart is very influential in my de-conversion. I’ve read several of his books. My favorite was How Jesus Became God. I learned so much from him. It was nice to see him on here with you. Thank you Emma, keep bringing the great videos.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens.
The Bibilical account of Jesus has never been an historical fact although lately Christian "historians" have been claiming Jesus of the Bible is historically true.
On the other hand many genuine historians have established Jesus was in fact was an invention of the Romans , to stifle any revolt and unrest of the Jews who were in fact expecting a "saviour" who would liberate them from the Romans.
You never De-converted Bart.
You were waiting with baited breath for someone like Bart to come along and spew all of the lies that you desperately wanted to hear.
We can't fool God, He knows our heart, He won't force you to seek him and love him in spirit and in truth...
Evolutionism is a poisonous lie . .
De-conversion has always fascinated me as someone who was raised without any religion. The different extreams of the process that people go through, with some being shunned by loved ones and yet at the same time feeling a freedom from their old beliefs
@@Czeslaw9426 It's a interesting phenomenon. I hope there's some sharp sociologists out there studying us.
To quote John from Monty Python “you must be the messiah. I should know, I’ve followed a few”
I need to watch that again! Funny as hell...
Ah yes, Monty Python, the well-know life guides
@@razony too right mate. It never gets old.
@@daneflynn4979
I did. The life of Brian. Never gets old.
@@razony time catches up with all of us mate. The trick seems to be never stop laughing. Life is hard enough without adding misery to the mix.
Dr Bart Ehrman is wicked smart on these subjects! I've watch so many hours of his lectures and it was very enlightening. I need to find this debate.
If the disciples doubted, how on earth are we, 2000 years later and with no evidence at all, expected not to?
This.
Because "muh faith"
I've never understood why in the Bible people can witness God and then doubt/worship idols. I'm supposed to believe Solomon, who's supposed to be the wisest man ever saw and conversed with God then started worshipping idols. It's like the characters have a sexual desire to worship gold cows.
@@circumcisionersjar the writters of the old testament were clearly polytheistic qnd believe that God was just one of the gods
@@circumcisionersjarBecause that real time in history predated Jewsih Monotheism
Wait, so they say Jesus died and came back from the dead while looking completely different? Jesus is a Time Lord confirmed
Yes, he was in a morontia body, like the ones we'll get when we graduate.
Jesus and the Doctor . . . that would be an epic crossover
I could see a Doctor Who story where the "demons" known as Legion was really an alien psychic entity (although Red Dwarf got there first...)
@@ericjohnson6665 Well that was a rabbit hole I didn't expect to come across. This is at least on par with El Cantare stuff, wow...
It could have been as simple as Superman's disguise - it seems to work quite well.
I'm not religious. I will say the words of Jesus are still relevant today. Love your neighbor. Be generous to the poor, the hungry, and the immigrant.
It's really too bad that those who claim to believe in Jesus also tend to be those least likely to follow his words.
When faith and facts collide, those with need will follow the faith.
I see the debate as one not intending to persuade but one that sets out and distinguishes between fact and fiction.
Congratulations on establishing an online relationship with Dr. Ehrman - his perspectives are very interesting. Good interview.
The problem is that it's not a exact science. E.g. using technology, we can see that the orbital period of the sun around the galaxy center is about 200 million years. Don't try "6x24 hours of creation" on me. That's just denialism. Let's believe what we see above what is written. The literal approach is hereby proven to be not intented by whoever wrote it. The creation days may represent era's since the beginning of time...
@@manuell3505 eh?
@@jayeee2756 Your problem is? You are spilling arrogance. ^^
@@manuell3505 You seem to be oozing nonsense.
@@jayeee2756 You seem to be just not so bright. This "eh?" without anything else quite doesn't make you appear as a smart guy. Neither a friendly guy. A potatoe saying nothing adds the same...
Tell me, do you also make yourself big like a puffer fish while doing this with your keyboard? ^^
Just found this channel and I immediately subscribed. I am impressed by the way the interviewer conducts the program, with great aplomb and calmness, and yet in a very relatable way. She lets Dr. Ehrman develop his arguments. Solid
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
28. How can you deny Allah, when you were dead and He gave you life, then He will put you to death, then He will bring you to life, then to Him you will be returned?
29. It is He who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the heaven, and made them seven heavens. And He is aware of all things.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “He is Allah, the One.
2. Allah, the Absolute.
3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. And there is none comparable to Him.”
@@abdulali8738 How? Very easily. The same way you deny Zeus, Odin, or Huitzilopochtli. Burden of proof is on you, not me. Quoting scriptures is not an argument.
@@georget13 80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
81. They profess obedience, but when they leave your presence, some of them conspire something contrary to what you said. But Allah writes down what they conspire. So avoid them, and put your trust in Allah. Allah is Guardian enough.
82. Do they not ponder the Quran? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would have found in it much discrepancy.
83. When some news of security or alarm comes their way, they broadcast it. But had they referred it to the Messenger, and to those in authority among them, those who can draw conclusions from it would have comprehended it. Were it not for Allah’s blessing and mercy upon you, you would have followed the Devil, except for a few.
84. So fight in the cause of Allah; you are responsible only for yourself. And rouse the believers. Perhaps Allah will restrain the might of those who disbelieve. Allah is Stronger in Might, and More Punishing.
85. Whoever intercedes for a good cause has a share in it, and whoever intercedes for an evil cause shares in its burdens. Allah keeps watch over everything.
86. When you are greeted with a greeting, respond with a better greeting, or return it. Allah keeps count of everything.
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
81. They profess obedience, but when they leave your presence, some of them conspire something contrary to what you said. But Allah writes down what they conspire. So avoid them, and put your trust in Allah. Allah is Guardian enough.
82. Do they not ponder the Quran? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would have found in it much discrepancy.
83. When some news of security or alarm comes their way, they broadcast it. But had they referred it to the Messenger, and to those in authority among them, those who can draw conclusions from it would have comprehended it. Were it not for Allah’s blessing and mercy upon you, you would have followed the Devil, except for a few.
84. So fight in the cause of Allah; you are responsible only for yourself. And rouse the believers. Perhaps Allah will restrain the might of those who disbelieve. Allah is Stronger in Might, and More Punishing.
85. Whoever intercedes for a good cause has a share in it, and whoever intercedes for an evil cause shares in its burdens. Allah keeps watch over everything.
86. When you are greeted with a greeting, respond with a better greeting, or return it. Allah keeps count of everything.
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
@@abdulali8738 Thank you. Goodbye
Hello, Ms Emma. I just discovered your channel a couple days ago, and here you are with Dr Ehrman! I have enjoyed his books and I'm enjoying your videos. Keep up the good work! 👍
80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
81. They profess obedience, but when they leave your presence, some of them conspire something contrary to what you said. But Allah writes down what they conspire. So avoid them, and put your trust in Allah. Allah is Guardian enough.
82. Do they not ponder the Quran? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would have found in it much discrepancy.
83. When some news of security or alarm comes their way, they broadcast it. But had they referred it to the Messenger, and to those in authority among them, those who can draw conclusions from it would have comprehended it. Were it not for Allah’s blessing and mercy upon you, you would have followed the Devil, except for a few.
84. So fight in the cause of Allah; you are responsible only for yourself. And rouse the believers. Perhaps Allah will restrain the might of those who disbelieve. Allah is Stronger in Might, and More Punishing.
85. Whoever intercedes for a good cause has a share in it, and whoever intercedes for an evil cause shares in its burdens. Allah keeps watch over everything.
86. When you are greeted with a greeting, respond with a better greeting, or return it. Allah keeps count of everything.
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
I too am a former Christian. In fact I was a minister and have a ThM from Dallas Theological Seminary. I am excited to watch this debate. Thanks for the heads up.
What made you deconvert?
@@TyrellWellickEcorp No one thing. It was a gradual erosion of faith over time. Too much to detail here but the concept of hell was one of the primary movers.
@@wingersfan Okay let’s set that all aside for now. How did you think the universe and everything in it was created (including yourself)? How does life come from non-life? How did the male and female genders suddenly pop out of existence out of nowhere? All of our organs are in the right places so they can work together to do their jobs? How can a blind, unguided natural process that couldnt see where it’s going result in a living being that can create itself inside its mothers womb and grow up to feel, think, reason, laugh, love, etc.?
@@TyrellWellickEcorp OMG...I NEVER thought about that!!!! You have converted me. I mean...this stuff never crossed my mind in 4 years of college, 4 years at seminary, and 5 years as a minister. You have enlightened me.
@@wingersfan I’m not sure whether or not you’re being sarcastic.
Wonderful video! I've been a big fan of Dr. Ehrman since Emma was in kindergarten! He's an amazing scholar with a great wit, sense of humor and ability to communicate ideas clearly.
Ex Mormon viewer. It’s great that you’re helping your audience get to know people who may be unknown to us.
Can we prove Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah promised in the Old Testament Hebrew Scriptures?
Prophecy Fulfillment
1. Born of Seed of the Woman Genesis 3:15 Galatians 4:4
2. Born of a Virgin Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:18, 24-25
3. Son of God Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:17
4. Seed of Abraham Genesis 22:18 Matthew 1:1
5. Son of Isaac Genesis 21:12 Luke 3:23, 34
6. Son of Jacob Numbers 24:17 Luke 3:23, 34
7. Tribe of Judah Genesis 49:10 Luke 3:23, 34
8. Family line of Jesse Isaiah 11:1 Luke 3:23, 32
9. House of David Jeremiah 23:5 Luke 3:23, 31
10. Born at Bethlehem Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1
11. Presented with Gifts Psalm 72:10 Matthew 2:1, 11
12. Herod Kills Children Jeremiah 31:15 Matthew 2:16
13. His Pre-Existence Micah 5:2 Colossians 1:17
14. Shall Be Immanuel (God with Us) Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:23
15. Preceded by Messenger Isaiah 40:3 Matthew 3:1-2
16. Entered Jerusalem on Donkey Zechariah 9:9 Luke 19:35-37
17. Sold for Thirty Pieces of Silver Zechariah 11:12 Matthew 26:15
18. Price Thrown for Potter’s field Zechariah 11:13 Matthew 27:5, 7
19. Silent Before Accusers Isaiah 53:7 Matthew 27:12
20. Wounded and Bruised Isaiah 53:5 Matthew 27:26
21. Crucified with Thieves Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 27:38
22. Garments Parted and Lots Cast Psalm 22:14 John 19:23-24
23. His Forsaken Cry Psalm 22:1 Matthew 27:46
24. Bones Not Broken Psalm 34:20 John 19:33
25. His Side Pierced Zechariah 12:10 John 19:34-37
26. Fulfilled the New Covenant Jeremiah 31:31-34 Hebrews 8:6-13, 10:16-18, 12:18-24
27. Messiah killed Daniel 9:24-27 John 19:18-30
The probability of any man fulfilling just 8 of these is 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. (17 zeros)
(Adapted from the book… “The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict” by Josh McDowell.
Josh McDowell set out to prove that Christianity was false.
Because of what he found in his research, he became a Christian.)
There is a mountain in the land of Midian (Northwest Saudi Arabia) which proves the Exodus from Egypt actually happened.
Do a little research on "The Real Mount Sinai".
@J Y: you have a very odd perception of proof.
@@wernerstapela4616 I'm sure the author's knew this would be the proof the reader would need to come to this conclusion. That's why they put it in there.
@@elibella5660 I'm sure you're right. That does not alter the meaning of the word "proof" :t"he cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact (meriam-webster)", as opposed to "what the reader may like/wish/need to conclude".
@@wernerstapela4616 I see what you mean. I definitely would agree the later is a more accurate description
When you lose someone close to you, often you’ll have extremely vivid, disturbing dreams of them as if they’re still alive shortly after their death. The dreams will wake you up in a cold sweat and for a time immediately after waking, the confusion will cause you to believe they’re still alive.
(Today would have been my sister’s birthday)
That is true but they're not common. In the vast majority of cases whenever someone experiences something like that, it's with a family member. None of the disciples were. Furthermore, grief hallucinations occur mostly with women, which none of the disciples were. And the elderly, which the disciples weren't as Jesus was only in his thirties when he died and rabbis were typically older than their disciples. But even if by some random chance this did happen, whenever it does most people don't think the person actually came back to life, or they're at least able to realize later that it wasn't real. But even then, if somehow some male, young, non-related disciples of Jesus had an experience where they saw Jesus after his death; that wouldn't explain how everybody else saw him. Hallucinations and events like these occur in the brain. They are by definition not shared experiences. I think that clinical literature is pretty clear in the subject. Dr Gary Sibcy is a psychologist who studied 20 years worth of books, articles, and journals regarding medical research on hallucinations and found zero cases of what we would call a group hallucination.
💜
@@austinapologetics2023 For one, I’m vehemently opposed to anyone that claims grief hallucinations are limited to a certain subset of the population. Also, I’m not referring to hallucinations (that occur when awake) but to grief dreams (which are common during/after trauma). But the other thing is, that’s just it, other people didn’t physically see Jesus, per Dr. Ehrman’s original collaboration video with Emma, “History, Myth and Legend in Genesis”.
@@Rosyna I never said grief hallucinations occur to a limited subset of the population. I said people who do experience these are usually
1. Relatives
2. Female
3. Elderly
The disciples for none of those categories. I never said it's impossible. I said it's unlikely.
I don't know why you hairsplit over the fact that their grief dreams instead of hallucinations. Same difference. There both rare events that are by definition not collective experiences.
What do you mean people didn't physically see Jesus? I suppose in the sense that you understand these phenomena as not actually occuring in reality, but the disciples thought they where physical and that's the point.
@Rosyna Keller
How accurate the dream part was (and still is) for me, especially how close I was with my mother. It is like as if my own mind is taunting me with dreams of my mom still being alive as well as me finding ways to save her (within my dreams). It is such an ugly feeling; physical feeling of stress being pushed on me. It is all the more worse considering that I will never see her again. My mom's service was held on the same month as my birthday; my birthday will be awkward because my mom will not be there to hug me or simply wake me up for my birthday (her death just happened a month ago; she was my best friend). My mind is fucking tearing itself apart from the fear, grief, anger, and anxiety.
Thank you for posting this! I’m thrilled for the debate as well
153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us Allah plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of Allah’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, Allah has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. Allah is Mighty and Wise.
159. There is none from the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.
If Jesus had to prove to the 12 disciples that he had been resurrected from the dead, it sets in motion a whole new strain of thought. They clearly didn't recognise him, which suggests that he had a new body. This basically means the man put on the cross was not resurrected, but some other dude claimed to be the resurrected Jesus and had to prove it.
"Misquoting Jesus" is one of my favorite eye opening books. I gave a copy to one of my Christian friends. After a few months, I asked her what she thought of it. She said she wasn't through reading it. However, I could tell by her attitude that she didn't want to talk about it. Probably because her eyes were opening.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
28. How can you deny Allah, when you were dead and He gave you life, then He will put you to death, then He will bring you to life, then to Him you will be returned?
29. It is He who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the heaven, and made them seven heavens. And He is aware of all things.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “He is Allah, the One.
2. Allah, the Absolute.
3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. And there is none comparable to Him.”
153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us Allah plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of Allah’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, Allah has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. Allah is Mighty and Wise.
159. There is none from the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
61. He is a portent of the Hour, so have no doubt about it, and follow Me. This is a straight way.
62. And let not Satan divert you. He is an open enemy to you.
63. When Jesus came with the clarifications, he said, “I have come to you with wisdom, and to clarify for you some of what you differ about. So fear Allah, and obey me.
64. Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him-this is a straight path.”
65. But the factions differed among themselves. So woe to the wrongdoers from the suffering of a painful Day.
66. Are they only waiting for the Hour to come upon them suddenly, while they are unaware?
67. On that Day, friends will be enemies of one another, except for the righteous.
68. O My servants, you have nothing to fear on that Day, nor will you grieve.
69. Those who believed in Our revelations, and were submissive.
70. Enter the Garden, you and your spouses, Joyfully.
71. They will be served around with trays of gold, and cups. Therein is whatever the souls desire and delights the eyes. Therein you will stay forever.
72. Such is the Garden you are made to inherit, because of what you used to do.
73. Therein you will have abundant fruit, from which you eat.
74. As for the sinners, they will be in the torment of Hell forever.
75. It will never be eased for them. In it, they will be devastated.
76. We did them no injustice, but it was they who were the unjust.
77. And they will cry, “O Malek, let your Lord finish us off.” He will say, “You are staying.”
78. We have given you the truth, but most of you hate the truth.
79. Have they contrived some scheme? We too are contriving.
80. Or do they think that We cannot hear their secrets and their conspiracies? Yes indeed, Our messengers are by them, writing down.
81. Say, “If the Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship.”
82. Glorified be the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne, beyond what they describe.
83. So leave them to blunder and play, until they encounter their Day which they are promised.
84. It is He who is Allah in heaven, and Allah on earth. He is the Wise, the Knower.
85. And blessed is He Who has sovereignty over the heavens and the earth and what is between them. He alone has knowledge of the Hour, and to Him you will be returned.
86. Those they invoke besides Him are incapable of intercession; only those who testify to the truth and have knowledge.
87. And if you asked them, “Who created them?”, they would say, “Allah.” Why then do they deviate?
88. As for his statement: “My Lord, these are a people who do not believe.”
89. Pardon them, and say, “Peace.” They will come to know.
@@abdulali8738 Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful? ...Gets so angry at people for asking to see him rather than some stone tablets Moses showed them, that he kills them? That sounds merciful and gracious. Deceives people, blinds them to his existence, yet also demands to be feared and obeyed and wants only submissive, unquestioning followers, condeming all others to eternal torture in hell. Why would you worship such a god?
I feel sorry she has a fedora hat tipper as a friend
Yay! Saturday mornings with Emma! ❤
5:20
Never even considered this angle and I think it's a brilliant foundation for an argument. It's not just about winning the debate, it's about reducing the harm that religions cause. At least that's my takeaway.
”It's not just about winning the debate, it's about reducing the harm that religions cause.” That's a beautiful thought.
Religion has tremendous potential for personal emotional healing, and does in fact cause profound emotional healing on a personal level.
People could achieve this kind of healing for themselves if they were more honest with themselves, but they are not, mostly because they avoid the pain of unpleasant memories. Similarly, they could lead more moral lives if they thought things through, but they don't make the effort-even though the results are worth it.
Religion provides a kind of short cut to these benefits through storytelling and social support systems. But religion achieves its positive aspects at the cost of an eventual societal train wreck. War is one example. That’s the price of destroying the truth. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
With these things in mind, winning a debate is a trivial exercise in egoism.
And the misuse of religion, something roundly criticised in the actual Bible, invalidates everything? Does your takeaway not allow for truth within a belief system that you probably don't know or understand? Religion is terrible, but we all have faith in something - even atheists - so why think that you have the right to rubbish the sincere and harmless faith of others?
@@hj925 Faith is so often not harmless. Assuming someone who is critical of religion doesn't understand it is a mistake, if anything people are critical because they do.
@@xtinkerbellax3 Of course you are right, but the context makes a huge difference. Since I am not in the fan group I appreciate that my words will maybe be misunderstood. Religious people can be very dangerous, but would probably be dangerous wherever they are, For example, paedophiles in the church are paedophiles first and foremost (and allowing for grooming because that would and does also happen in the wherever). Not acknowledging the wonderful work of many people of faith, in community, in health care, in charities and soup kitchens makes them unfair casualties of the kind of thinking some people are expressing here, It's not balanced. It generalises unfairly and unreasonably, It demonises the innocent. I get the victim push back, I'm a victim myself and more than once a victim of crazy so called christians. Thankfully not sexually, although there was the time someone creeped me out, Using a different example, a Muslim doctor sacrifices herself for others without worrying about her own safety and comforts. She does that 24/7 for years. Something like 9/11 comes and she's a target. Only the proven "guilty of something" deserve to be identified as harmful, A rapist doctor doesn't make hospitals evil places - he was evil, not the hospital, other doctors or the health board. I see the hurt, but a lot of it is clearly random and misdirected. Just saying
@@xtinkerbellax3 I did a reply to this, did you see it? It seems to have gone, If it's lost then so be it. I haven't time to do the main points, What I will repeat is that faith is neutral in one sense and it's the people who act that matter alongside what they do. A paedophile in a church or hospital does not blight the place unless they aided him and, before you say it, churches are actually not alone on the list of contexts where bad things are done, but often highlighted more because most of us hold them to a higher standard. Quite rightly, Many of us are harmed by people claiming to be people of faith, but we need to look at each individual case. There are many doctors and nurses proven to be killers, a surprising number actually, but we should not condemn the medical world for that they are responsible for., People of faith have done great things, powered by the right kind of faith, and our world would be a much harsher and darker place without what they did, Let's all be more balanced and less generally condemnatory shall we?
Always a pleasure to see the ever-sympathetic Dr. Ehrman.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
28. How can you deny Allah, when you were dead and He gave you life, then He will put you to death, then He will bring you to life, then to Him you will be returned?
29. It is He who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the heaven, and made them seven heavens. And He is aware of all things.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “He is Allah, the One.
2. Allah, the Absolute.
3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. And there is none comparable to Him.”
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
61. He is a portent of the Hour, so have no doubt about it, and follow Me. This is a straight way.
62. And let not Satan divert you. He is an open enemy to you.
63. When Jesus came with the clarifications, he said, “I have come to you with wisdom, and to clarify for you some of what you differ about. So fear Allah, and obey me.
64. Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him-this is a straight path.”
65. But the factions differed among themselves. So woe to the wrongdoers from the suffering of a painful Day.
66. Are they only waiting for the Hour to come upon them suddenly, while they are unaware?
67. On that Day, friends will be enemies of one another, except for the righteous.
68. O My servants, you have nothing to fear on that Day, nor will you grieve.
69. Those who believed in Our revelations, and were submissive.
70. Enter the Garden, you and your spouses, Joyfully.
71. They will be served around with trays of gold, and cups. Therein is whatever the souls desire and delights the eyes. Therein you will stay forever.
72. Such is the Garden you are made to inherit, because of what you used to do.
73. Therein you will have abundant fruit, from which you eat.
74. As for the sinners, they will be in the torment of Hell forever.
75. It will never be eased for them. In it, they will be devastated.
76. We did them no injustice, but it was they who were the unjust.
77. And they will cry, “O Malek, let your Lord finish us off.” He will say, “You are staying.”
78. We have given you the truth, but most of you hate the truth.
79. Have they contrived some scheme? We too are contriving.
80. Or do they think that We cannot hear their secrets and their conspiracies? Yes indeed, Our messengers are by them, writing down.
81. Say, “If the Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship.”
82. Glorified be the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne, beyond what they describe.
83. So leave them to blunder and play, until they encounter their Day which they are promised.
84. It is He who is Allah in heaven, and Allah on earth. He is the Wise, the Knower.
85. And blessed is He Who has sovereignty over the heavens and the earth and what is between them. He alone has knowledge of the Hour, and to Him you will be returned.
86. Those they invoke besides Him are incapable of intercession; only those who testify to the truth and have knowledge.
87. And if you asked them, “Who created them?”, they would say, “Allah.” Why then do they deviate?
88. As for his statement: “My Lord, these are a people who do not believe.”
89. Pardon them, and say, “Peace.” They will come to know.
Dr Licona is of is the more interesting scholars in this debate, but also one of the kinder ones as well. I enjoy his debates with Dr Ehrman :D
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
61. He is a portent of the Hour, so have no doubt about it, and follow Me. This is a straight way.
62. And let not Satan divert you. He is an open enemy to you.
63. When Jesus came with the clarifications, he said, “I have come to you with wisdom, and to clarify for you some of what you differ about. So fear Allah, and obey me.
64. Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him-this is a straight path.”
65. But the factions differed among themselves. So woe to the wrongdoers from the suffering of a painful Day.
66. Are they only waiting for the Hour to come upon them suddenly, while they are unaware?
67. On that Day, friends will be enemies of one another, except for the righteous.
68. O My servants, you have nothing to fear on that Day, nor will you grieve.
69. Those who believed in Our revelations, and were submissive.
70. Enter the Garden, you and your spouses, Joyfully.
71. They will be served around with trays of gold, and cups. Therein is whatever the souls desire and delights the eyes. Therein you will stay forever.
72. Such is the Garden you are made to inherit, because of what you used to do.
73. Therein you will have abundant fruit, from which you eat.
74. As for the sinners, they will be in the torment of Hell forever.
75. It will never be eased for them. In it, they will be devastated.
76. We did them no injustice, but it was they who were the unjust.
77. And they will cry, “O Malek, let your Lord finish us off.” He will say, “You are staying.”
78. We have given you the truth, but most of you hate the truth.
79. Have they contrived some scheme? We too are contriving.
80. Or do they think that We cannot hear their secrets and their conspiracies? Yes indeed, Our messengers are by them, writing down.
81. Say, “If the Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship.”
82. Glorified be the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne, beyond what they describe.
83. So leave them to blunder and play, until they encounter their Day which they are promised.
84. It is He who is Allah in heaven, and Allah on earth. He is the Wise, the Knower.
85. And blessed is He Who has sovereignty over the heavens and the earth and what is between them. He alone has knowledge of the Hour, and to Him you will be returned.
86. Those they invoke besides Him are incapable of intercession; only those who testify to the truth and have knowledge.
87. And if you asked them, “Who created them?”, they would say, “Allah.” Why then do they deviate?
88. As for his statement: “My Lord, these are a people who do not believe.”
89. Pardon them, and say, “Peace.” They will come to know.
You, that chapter, Mrballen, Kurtis Conner and Chad Chad are my favs right now. So happy for another upload. Thanks Emma!!
80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
81. They profess obedience, but when they leave your presence, some of them conspire something contrary to what you said. But Allah writes down what they conspire. So avoid them, and put your trust in Allah. Allah is Guardian enough.
82. Do they not ponder the Quran? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would have found in it much discrepancy.
83. When some news of security or alarm comes their way, they broadcast it. But had they referred it to the Messenger, and to those in authority among them, those who can draw conclusions from it would have comprehended it. Were it not for Allah’s blessing and mercy upon you, you would have followed the Devil, except for a few.
84. So fight in the cause of Allah; you are responsible only for yourself. And rouse the believers. Perhaps Allah will restrain the might of those who disbelieve. Allah is Stronger in Might, and More Punishing.
85. Whoever intercedes for a good cause has a share in it, and whoever intercedes for an evil cause shares in its burdens. Allah keeps watch over everything.
86. When you are greeted with a greeting, respond with a better greeting, or return it. Allah keeps count of everything.
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us Allah plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of Allah’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, Allah has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. Allah is Mighty and Wise.
159. There is none from the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.
@@abdulali8738 yeah, man. Great.
n the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Alif, Lam, Meem.
2. Allah, there is no god but He, the Living, the Eternal.
3. He sent down to you the Book with the Truth, confirming what came before it; and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel.
4. Aforetime, as guidance for mankind; and He sent down the Criterion. Those who have rejected Allah’s signs will have a severe punishment. Allah is Mighty, Able to take revenge.
5. Nothing is hidden from Allah, on earth or in the heaven.
6. It is He who forms you in the wombs as He wills. There is no god except He, the Almighty, the Wise.
29. Say, “Whether you conceal what is in your hearts, or disclose it, Allah knows it.” He knows everything in the heavens and the earth. Allah is Powerful over everything.
30. On the Day when every soul finds all the good it has done presented. And as for the evil it has done, it will wish there were a great distance between them. Allah cautions you of Himself. Allah is Kind towards the servants.
31. Say, “If you love Allah, then follow me, and Allah will love you, and will forgive you your sins.” Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
32. Say, “Obey Allah and the Messenger.” But if they turn away-Allah does not love the faithless.
33. Allah chose Adam, and Noah, and the family of Abraham, and the family of Imran, over all mankind.
34. Offspring one of the other. Allah is Hearer and Knower.
35. The wife of Imran said, “My Lord, I have vowed to You what is in my womb, dedicated, so accept from me; You are the Hearer and Knower.”
36. And when she delivered her, she said, “My Lord, I have delivered a female,” and Allah was well aware of what she has delivered, “and the male is not like the female, and I have named her Mary, and have commended her and her descendants to Your protection, from Satan the outcast.”
37. Her Lord accepted her with a gracious reception, and brought her a beautiful upbringing, and entrusted her to the care of Zechariah. Whenever Zechariah entered upon her in the sanctuary, he found her with provision. He said, “O Mary, where did you get this from?” She said, “It is from Allah; Allah provides to whom He wills without reckoning.”
38. Thereupon Zechariah prayed to his Lord; he said, “My Lord, bestow on me good offspring from Your presence; You are the Hearer of Prayers.”
39. Then the angels called out to him, as he stood praying in the sanctuary: “Allah gives you good news of John; confirming a Word from Allah, and honorable, and moral, and a prophet; one of the upright.”
40. He said, “My Lord, how will I have a son, when old age has overtaken me, and my wife is barren?” He said, “Even so, Allah does whatever He wills.”
41. He said, “My Lord, give me a sign.” He said, “Your sign is that you shall not speak to the people for three days, except by gestures. And remember your Lord much, and praise in the evening and the morning.”
42. The angels said, “O Mary, Allah has chosen you, and has purified you. He has chosen you over all the women of the world.
43. “O Mary, be devoted to your Lord, and bow down, and kneel with those who kneel.”
44. These are accounts from the Unseen, which We reveal to you. You were not with them when they cast their lots as to which of them would take charge of Mary; nor were you with them as they quarreled.
45. The Angels said, “O Mary, Allah gives you good news of a Word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, well-esteemed in this world and the next, and one of the nearest.
46. He will speak to the people from the crib, and in adulthood, and will be one of the righteous.”
47. She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child, when no man has touched me?” He said, “It will be so. Allah creates whatever He wills. To have anything done, He only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is.”
48. And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel.
49. A messenger to the Children of Israel: “I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you out of clay the figure of a bird; then I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah’s leave. And I heal the blind and the leprous, and I revive the dead, by Allah’s leave. And I inform you concerning what you eat, and what you store in your homes. In that is a sign for you, if you are believers.”
50. “And verifying what lies before me of the Torah, and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; so fear Allah, and obey me.”
51. “Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.”
52. When Jesus sensed disbelief on their part, he said, “Who are my allies towards Allah?” The disciples said, “We are Allah’s allies; we have believed in Allah, and bear witness that we submit.”
53. “Our Lord, we have believed in what You have revealed, and we have followed the Messenger, so count us among the witnesses.”
54. They planned, and Allah planned; but Allah is the Best of planners.
55. Allah said, “O Jesus, I am terminating your life, and raising you to Me, and clearing you of those who disbelieve. And I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return; then I will judge between you regarding what you were disputing.
56. As for those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe punishment, in this world and the next, and they will have no helpers.
57. And as for those who believe and do good works, He will give them their rewards in full. Allah does not love the unjust.”
58. This is what We recite to you of the Verses and the Wise Reminder.
59. The likeness of Jesus in Allah’s sight is that of Adam: He created him from dust, then said to him, “Be,” and he was.
60. The truth is from your Lord, so do not be of those who doubt.
@@abdulali8738 who are you preaching to, brotha?
They do not hesitate to step on our toes. They think and proclaim that atheists are evil. I am excited for you Emma. This is twice I’ve seen Mr. Erhman on your channel. You’re in the big time girl!
Well said.
Christian here who believes in a literal resurrection.
I just want to say I genuinely like Ehrman. He is kind and I think is walking in good faith.
He doesn’t (as far as I’ve witnessed) change the data.
And I love how humble he was when Dr. Brown won a debate against him. His humility there spoke volumes to me about his character.
Ehrman has acknowledged the NT was written late into the first century. For him this poses a problem (memorys fade). For me I think since this was considered an ancient world newsflash, that’s remarkable.
He acknowledges that at least 95% of our data in current NTs matches what first century NTs would’ve said. He finds the other 5% a reason to doubt. I find the 95% consistency itself a miracle without parallel in ancient literature. And I take by faith (because yes faith is required) that the other 5% is consistent and we’re making a mistake on our end in evaluating that 5%. His Christian mentor actually thinks it’s more like 99%. But I digress.
Ehrman also acknowledges a significant numbers of disciples of Jesus were so convinced that they died for their faith in it. He finds it possible they could’ve been under a deception because they didn’t recognize Him. I find it more likely that He just had a glorified body but looked the same but perfect. Like He was a normal not attractive guy before and now maybe He looked like the same Guy but an attractive version. Keep in mind He showed the disciples the nail prints. So I do think the data supports the resurrection. And the recent shroud evidence that went viral this month all the more points to it. But Ehrman is right the data evidence only gets us so far. It can never totally prove it ( though I think it gets us close) or we wouldn’t need faith. And we are saved by faith. So props to Ehrman for sharing the data accurately as he knows how. We may draw different conclusions from this data but we both seek to represent the data fairly.
Respect
PS: isn’t it amazing how the same data that made a Christian Bart Ehrman an agnostic made an atheist Lee Strobel a Christian?
Great interview! I only recently discovered your channel, definitely need to get all caught up. Thank you!
153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us Allah plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of Allah’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, Allah has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. Allah is Mighty and Wise.
159. There is none from the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.
The whole "He died for our sins." thing actually makes more sense without a resurrection.
It doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice when it's undone, does it?
@@EmmaThorneVideos No, it's like he took a long weekend. Said before, I know .
The Christian faith expands further on this; Jesus not only died for the sins of mankind - he also conquered death. The wages of sin is death. Because Jesus defeated death, it enabled the promise of eternal life for those who believe. So the resurrection was crucial.
@@EmmaThorneVideosare you a flaming lesbian or?
I’m a 70-something Christian, old enough to have had a life. I’ve worked my way through many crises of faith, as one must if he is to grow up.
Emma, I enjoy your channel and recognize many of your doubts as ones I and countless others have wrestled with in our lives, the difference being that I have landed on the side of faith, although my understanding of God and the Bible has evolved greatly since I was 20.
Just a quick note today. Dr. Ehrman quotes Acts 1:3 - “After his suffering, he presented himself alive to them by many convincing proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.” Ehrman raises the reasonable question, which I paraphrase, “Wouldn’t Jesus’ simply being alive be adequate proof?” and follows that with a quip about card tricks.
I haven’t thought about this passage (now I will), but I’ve found that a reasonable first question will always be, why is it in there at all? In the centuries before these writings were canonized - not days, weeks, or months, but hundreds of years - many bright minds, believing and unbelieving, had their hands on these pages, and there was ample opportunity to edit it or delete it.
One may not believe that God exists, but everyone can agree that the words do exist. And I love exactly this kind of thing - why is the implausible, puzzling, and, especially, counterintuitive material in there? If you as an activist were fabricating a narrative, especially a foundational one, and especially if your motive were power, control, domination, you would recast or edit out the dissonant or embarrassing bits, no? - the wicked kings, the national humiliations, the personal failures, the losses, the aimless wanderings, the clueless disciples, on and on. If anything, you’d be inclined to polish the apple, so to speak, and make things bigger, brighter, shinier than they actually were.
But that, as you know, is not what we find in the Bible.
My thoughts for now. I’d love a conversation with you. Thanks, and all the best.
I’m 22. I’m married, I have a three month old son, and I’m a theological student. I grew up in a very fundamentalist home and I used to be a young-earth creationist (I now accept evolution as a valid scientific theory). I want to believe in the resurrection and the virgin birth. I have a strong emotional connection to these beliefs, but sometimes I feel genuinely torn over what I really think is true. I don’t want to believe something just because my in-group says that I have to, and I don’t want to seek out selective evidence just because I need to find it so that I can hold on to my faith. I only want to believe what is factually knowable, because I think that intellectual integrity should be valued and not used to support a cause or an ideology. What would be your advice to me, if I may ask it?
@@ethanhocking8229 Hi Ethan,
Just now saw your note, thanks. Love your honesty. I’d be happy to Zoom with you at length if you’re up for it. Seriously.
I can make a couple of general comments.
The living God is different from our beliefs about God, similar to the way a tree is different from a photo of the tree. The difference is not small. In the Old Testament, God is the barely defined "I am"-nature, the cosmos, the ground of being. He-and it’s fair to put He in quotes, as in “He”-appears throughout scripture as, or in, a cloud-the pillar of cloud that led out of Egypt, the cloud that filled the temple, the cloud into which Jesus ascended, etc. Nothing is as indefinite as a cloud. A cloud has no center, no edges, no real form, and most important, nothing to hold onto. Even God as Jesus (“If you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the Father”), who is as much like us as one can be, is confounding. He speaks in parable and mystery and metaphor. He says again and again, “God is like . . . “ without nailing it down. No one gets Him, not the Romans, the scribes, the Pharisees, or even his disciples. (Many, however-sinners, tax collectors, etc.-"received" Him, which is different.) This shouldn’t be surprising. We have almost no understanding even of ourselves. Sure, we have our opinions and tastes and some general rules of conduct, but those aren’t us any more than our picture of God is God.
Believers and unbelievers alike read the Bible through some pretty heavy filters (we “see in a glass darkly,” etc.), and it seems like much of life involves clearing away our distortions, which are truly “strongholds.” What I’ve found interesting is that the “high things that exalt themselves against the knowledge of God” are usually our own beliefs about God! Letting go and allowing them to be replaced by deeper knowing can be destabilizing and painful, and it helps to remember that the name Israel means “he who wrestles with God.” The struggle is built into the journey.
You mention “factually knowable.” The issue of God, for or against, is unlikely to be resolved with “facts.” Case in point: I was in eighth grade in 1963 when the president of the United States (John F. Kennedy) was murdered in broad daylight in front of hundreds, perhaps thousands of people, some with cameras and microphones. It was shocking, unbelievable, ghastly; it changed the world and is burned forever into our brains. The justice department investigated and published a conclusion that was widely disbelieved. Sixty years later, the case of exactly who was responsible has not been solved, although many dogged investigators have devoted their entire lives to the hunt. We will never know.
Point is, this occurred in my lifetime. Tens of millions who, like me, were alive then are still alive today, and we were witnesses. We saw it with our own eyes, yet we don’t know. Now imagine trying to solve with “facts” the virgin birth and resurrection of Christ two thousand years ago. It will not happen, or at least it’s unlikely.
But it doesn’t need to.
Let me know if you’d like to Zoom and we can arrange a time.
@@ethanhocking8229 Nature is the art of God. Look up "THE CRUCIFIX FISH - WHAT THE CRUCIFIX FISH REVEALS"
R McWade, clearly the writers of the gospels are compilers of various texts, oral histories legends, not participants in the events themselves. They are writing literature, not perpetrating frauds. So of course their accounts are full of odd, counterintuitive material. I think they are trying to create accounts that they thought captured the best material they had, not produce a polished edited story.
Boswell’s life of Johnson is full of dad bits. He observes Johnson peeling an orange, but Johnson refuses to say why he pockets the peel. “That you shall never know!”
A good fictional character is not consistent.
I heard an interview of a Roman Catholic monk who had been a historian at the Vatican. He commented how in ancient Rome there developed the concept that when a man became Caesar than automatically his birth retroactively became a virgin birth and when he died that he ascended to heaven so, the comment that Jesus was a virgin birth and ascended to heaven was simply comparing him to Caesar.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
28. How can you deny Allah, when you were dead and He gave you life, then He will put you to death, then He will bring you to life, then to Him you will be returned?
29. It is He who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the heaven, and made them seven heavens. And He is aware of all things.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “He is Allah, the One.
2. Allah, the Absolute.
3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. And there is none comparable to Him.”
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
61. He is a portent of the Hour, so have no doubt about it, and follow Me. This is a straight way.
62. And let not Satan divert you. He is an open enemy to you.
63. When Jesus came with the clarifications, he said, “I have come to you with wisdom, and to clarify for you some of what you differ about. So fear Allah, and obey me.
64. Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him-this is a straight path.”
65. But the factions differed among themselves. So woe to the wrongdoers from the suffering of a painful Day.
66. Are they only waiting for the Hour to come upon them suddenly, while they are unaware?
67. On that Day, friends will be enemies of one another, except for the righteous.
68. O My servants, you have nothing to fear on that Day, nor will you grieve.
69. Those who believed in Our revelations, and were submissive.
70. Enter the Garden, you and your spouses, Joyfully.
71. They will be served around with trays of gold, and cups. Therein is whatever the souls desire and delights the eyes. Therein you will stay forever.
72. Such is the Garden you are made to inherit, because of what you used to do.
73. Therein you will have abundant fruit, from which you eat.
74. As for the sinners, they will be in the torment of Hell forever.
75. It will never be eased for them. In it, they will be devastated.
76. We did them no injustice, but it was they who were the unjust.
77. And they will cry, “O Malek, let your Lord finish us off.” He will say, “You are staying.”
78. We have given you the truth, but most of you hate the truth.
79. Have they contrived some scheme? We too are contriving.
80. Or do they think that We cannot hear their secrets and their conspiracies? Yes indeed, Our messengers are by them, writing down.
81. Say, “If the Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship.”
82. Glorified be the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne, beyond what they describe.
83. So leave them to blunder and play, until they encounter their Day which they are promised.
84. It is He who is Allah in heaven, and Allah on earth. He is the Wise, the Knower.
85. And blessed is He Who has sovereignty over the heavens and the earth and what is between them. He alone has knowledge of the Hour, and to Him you will be returned.
86. Those they invoke besides Him are incapable of intercession; only those who testify to the truth and have knowledge.
87. And if you asked them, “Who created them?”, they would say, “Allah.” Why then do they deviate?
88. As for his statement: “My Lord, these are a people who do not believe.”
89. Pardon them, and say, “Peace.” They will come to know.
65. Say, “I am only a warner, and there is no god except Allah-the One, the Conqueror.
66. The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and everything between them; the Mighty, the Forgiver.”
67. Say, “It is a message of great importance.
68. From which you are turning away.
69. I have no knowledge of the Highest Assembly as they dispute.
70. It is only revealed to me that I am a clear warner.”
71. Your Lord said to the angels, “I am creating a human being from clay.
72. When I have formed him, and breathed into him of My spirit, fall prostrate before him.
73. So the angels fell prostrate, all of them.
74. Except for Satan. He was too proud, and one of the faithless.
75. He said, “O Satan, what prevented you from prostrating before what I created with My Own hands? Are you too proud, or were you one of the exalted?”
76. He said, “I am better than he; You created me from fire, and You created him from clay.”
77. He said, “Then get out of here! You are an outcast!
78. And My curse will be upon you until the Day of Judgment.”
79. He said, “Lord, defer me until the Day they are resurrected.”
80. He said, “You are one of those deferred.
81. Until the Day of the Time Appointed.”
82. He said, “By Your majesty, I will seduce them all.
83. Except for your loyal servants among them.”
84. He said, “The truth is, and I say the truth.
85. I will fill Hell with you, and with every one of them who follows you.”
86. Say, “I ask of you no wage for this, and I am not a pretender.
87. It is but a reminder to mankind.
88. And you will know its message after a while.”
54. And Lot, when he said to his people, “Do you commit lewdness with open eyes?
55. Do you lust after men instead of women? You are truly ignorant people.”
56. But the only response of his people was to say, “Expel the family of Lot from your town. They are purist people.”
57. So We saved him and his family, except for his wife, whom We destined to be among the laggards.
58. And We rained upon them a rain. Miserable was the rain of those forewarned.
59. Say, “Praise Allah, and peace be upon His servants whom He has selected. Is Allah better, or what they associate?”
60. Or, who created the heavens and the earth, and rains down water from the sky for you? With it We produce gardens full of beauty, whose trees you could not have produced. Is there another god with Allah? But they are a people who equate.
61. Or, who made the earth habitable, and made rivers flow through it, and set mountains on it, and placed a partition between the two seas? Is there another god with Allah? But most of them do not know.
62. Or, who answers the one in need when he prays to Him, and relieves adversity, and makes you successors on earth? Is there another god with Allah? How hardly you pay attention.
63. Or, who guides you through the darkness of land and sea, and who sends the winds as heralds of His mercy? Is there another god with Allah? Most exalted is Allah, above what they associate.
64. Or, who originates the creation and then repeats it, and who gives you livelihood from the sky and the earth? Is there another god with Allah? Say, “Produce your evidence, if you are truthful.”
65. Say, “No one in the heavens or on earth knows the future except Allah; and they do not perceive when they will be resurrected.”
66. In fact, their knowledge of the Hereafter is confused. In fact, they are in doubt about it. In fact, they are blind to it.
67. Those who disbelieve say, “When we have become dust, and our ancestors, shall we be brought out?
68. We were promised that before, we and our ancestors-these are nothing but legends of the ancients.”
69. Say, travel through the earth, and observe the fate of the guilty.”
70. But do not grieve over them, and do not be troubled by what they plot.
71. And they say, “When is this promise, if you are truthful?”
72. Say, “Perhaps some of what you are impatient for has drawn near.”
73. Your Lord is gracious towards humanity, but most of them are not thankful.
74. And your Lord knows what their hearts conceal, and what they reveal.
75. There is no mystery in the heaven and the earth, but it is in a Clear Book.
76. This Quran relates to the Children of Israel most of what they differ about.
77. And it is guidance and mercy for the believers.
78. Your Lord will judge between them by His wisdom. He is the Almighty, the All-Knowing.
79. So rely on Allah. You are upon the clear truth.
80. You cannot make the dead hear, nor can you make the deaf hear the call if they turn their backs and flee.
81. Nor can you guide the blind out of their straying. You can make no one listen, except those who believe in Our verses; for they are Muslims.
82. And when the Word has fallen on them, We will bring out for them from the earth a creature which will say to them that the people are uncertain of Our revelations.
83. On the Day when We gather from every community a group of those who rejected Our revelations; and they will be restrained.
84. Until, when they arrive, He will say, “Did you reject My revelations without comprehending them? Or what is it you were doing?”
85. The Word will come down upon them for their wrongdoing, and they will not speak.
86. Do they not see that We made the night for them to rest therein, and the day for visibility? Surely in that are signs for people who believe.
87. On the Day when the Trumpet is blown, everyone in the heavens and the earth will be horrified, except whomever Allah wills; and everyone will come before Him in humility.
88. And you see the mountains, and imagine them fixed, yet they pass, as the passing of the clouds-the making of Allah, who has perfected everything. He is fully Informed of what you do.
89. Whoever brings a virtue will receive better than it-and they will be safe from the horrors of that Day.
90. But whoever brings evil-their faces will be tumbled into the Fire. Will you be rewarded except for what you used to do?
91. “I was commanded to worship the Lord of this town, who has sanctified it, and to Whom everything belongs; and I was commanded to be of those who submit.
92. And to recite the Quran.” Whoever is guided-is guided to his own advantage. And whoever goes astray, then say, “I am one of the warners.”
93. And say, “Praise belongs to Allah; He will show you His signs, and you will recognize them. Your Lord is not heedless of what you do.”
This debate will be very interesting. Religious studies is a fascinating historical field, especially when it comes to subjects like the origins of beliefs like the resurrection which directly shaped the development of the world we see today.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens.
It’s interesting to be honestly (and positively) engaged in a channel where Ehrman and Licona are debating and it’s BE that’s cast in the protagonist role. As a Christian from way back it was always Licona that was more or less in the good guys role, if you will. It’s nice to finally be at a point in life where the heat of that discussion is sort of off and, honestly, let the best evidence and presentation win. It’s probably surviving through Covid as an ICU nurse that reset how I perceive ideas and the competition for facts in the wider world. I value “good faith” in engagement over any dogmatic position.
The Bibilical account of Jesus has never been an historical fact although lately Christian "historians" have been claiming Jesus of the Bible is historically true.
On the other hand many genuine historians have established Jesus was in fact was an invention of the Romans , to stifle any revolt and unrest of the Jews who were in fact expecting a "saviour" who would liberate them from the Romans.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
28. How can you deny Allah, when you were dead and He gave you life, then He will put you to death, then He will bring you to life, then to Him you will be returned?
29. It is He who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the heaven, and made them seven heavens. And He is aware of all things.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “He is Allah, the One.
2. Allah, the Absolute.
3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. And there is none comparable to Him.”
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
28. How can you deny Allah, when you were dead and He gave you life, then He will put you to death, then He will bring you to life, then to Him you will be returned?
29. It is He who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the heaven, and made them seven heavens. And He is aware of all things.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “He is Allah, the One.
2. Allah, the Absolute.
3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. And there is none comparable to Him.”
153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us Allah plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of Allah’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, Allah has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. Allah is Mighty and Wise.
159. There is none from the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
61. He is a portent of the Hour, so have no doubt about it, and follow Me. This is a straight way.
62. And let not Satan divert you. He is an open enemy to you.
63. When Jesus came with the clarifications, he said, “I have come to you with wisdom, and to clarify for you some of what you differ about. So fear Allah, and obey me.
64. Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him-this is a straight path.”
65. But the factions differed among themselves. So woe to the wrongdoers from the suffering of a painful Day.
66. Are they only waiting for the Hour to come upon them suddenly, while they are unaware?
67. On that Day, friends will be enemies of one another, except for the righteous.
68. O My servants, you have nothing to fear on that Day, nor will you grieve.
69. Those who believed in Our revelations, and were submissive.
70. Enter the Garden, you and your spouses, Joyfully.
71. They will be served around with trays of gold, and cups. Therein is whatever the souls desire and delights the eyes. Therein you will stay forever.
72. Such is the Garden you are made to inherit, because of what you used to do.
73. Therein you will have abundant fruit, from which you eat.
74. As for the sinners, they will be in the torment of Hell forever.
75. It will never be eased for them. In it, they will be devastated.
76. We did them no injustice, but it was they who were the unjust.
77. And they will cry, “O Malek, let your Lord finish us off.” He will say, “You are staying.”
78. We have given you the truth, but most of you hate the truth.
79. Have they contrived some scheme? We too are contriving.
80. Or do they think that We cannot hear their secrets and their conspiracies? Yes indeed, Our messengers are by them, writing down.
81. Say, “If the Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship.”
82. Glorified be the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne, beyond what they describe.
83. So leave them to blunder and play, until they encounter their Day which they are promised.
84. It is He who is Allah in heaven, and Allah on earth. He is the Wise, the Knower.
85. And blessed is He Who has sovereignty over the heavens and the earth and what is between them. He alone has knowledge of the Hour, and to Him you will be returned.
86. Those they invoke besides Him are incapable of intercession; only those who testify to the truth and have knowledge.
87. And if you asked them, “Who created them?”, they would say, “Allah.” Why then do they deviate?
88. As for his statement: “My Lord, these are a people who do not believe.”
89. Pardon them, and say, “Peace.” They will come to know.
Something I have never understood about Christ's resurrection is if he died for our sins ... then what does that imply when he comes back from death?
It seems ... inconsistent, but perhaps that because I was raised in a skeptical home.
"I need a God that _stays_ dead, not plays dead."
Ya, Jesus only stayed dead for three days, that's a long weekend. Jesus gave up his weekend for your sins.
Inconsistent is an understatement... Imagine you are an omnipotent God, and your creations are sinning, because by design they are able to do such things, and you want to forgive those sins, but you can't, unless you impregnate a young woman to conceive a child that no only is your son but he is also you, and then make this son die, but not quite, and they you finally can forgive their sins (by punishing yourself), but doesn't matter, your creations are still sinning, but somehow the whole affair that changed nothing changed everything, but a second coming is needed, and...
Used to be a fanatic christian here
Basically, the dying for our sins thing is not really about the death itself. For one, it is more about the torture he went through and spilling his blood that saved us from our sins. And then he died to conquer evil and death itself, and afterwards he resurrected.
Still a lot of problems and inconsistencies, but not a fair argument since the "dying for our sins" slogan doesn't really cover/represent it properly
Thats always got me too.
Or the old Jesus who was gods son and also god came to earth to die for himself to himself for the sins he created
Great work Emma!
I'm still having a difficult time understanding that grown adults in the 21st Century still believe and perpetuate mythology. Frankly, I don't care what anyone believes providing they keep it to themselves and NOT attempt to invade schools & government.
E.g. Just thinking that there are people out there that teach creationism to children troubles me deeply.
Giving up Critical Thinking for Lent is not an excuse.
The trouble is, I didn't get a course in critical thinking until college. It should be taught in middle school.
And creationists shoot themselves in the foot by insisting on the "young earth" mythology. What bloody difference does it make how old the Earth is? That's not the point of the Bible. The Bible is supposed to be leading us toward God, toward learning how to treat each other with love. Focusing on when it all started is a diversion. That being said, evolutionists don't have a good narrative for how life started. DNA coming into existence by accident is a statistical impossibility.
It could be that a Life Carrier assembled the elements of the first cell and with the help of the "breath of life", started life on this planet some 550,000,000 years ago. And that DNA was "designed" to evolve. So, a mashup of the two theories, would result in "creation" starting it all, and "evolution" taking it from there, as though evolution was a tool of creation.
@@ericjohnson6665
_"The Bible is supposed to be leading us toward God, toward learning how to treat each other with love."_
Have you told your mother that you hate her and have you abandoned all of your possessions as your savior has commanded you to do?
Jesus will only grant you everlasting life if you hate your mother, abandon your family, and give up all of your possessions-
Luke 14:26-27
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he cannot be my disciple."
Matthew 19:29
"And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."
Jesus also says disobedient children must be killed as required by Old Testament law:
Mark 7:9-10
"And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’, and ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’"
(See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21)
Luke 14:33
“…therefore, none of you can become my disciple if you do not give up all your possessions."
Matthew 5:40
Do not defend yourself in court-
"And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well."
Cannibalism is an integral part of Christianity.
John 6:53
"Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever gnaws my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a difficult and harsh and offensive statement. Who can accept it?" From this time, many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him."
Jesus approves of slavery too-
Matthew 8:5
"When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. “Lord,” he said, my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.” Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?” The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed."
Jesus' parables approving of slavery and beating slaves.
Luke 12:46-47
"The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes."
Luke 17:7-9
"But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not."
@@ericjohnson6665 Great comment[s]!
Except for the non-existing word of, “evolutionists.” That’s where you gave yourself away.
The Bible is a book of total nonsense. Look at where it was written and by those who wrote it.
Was it in Greece? No.
In China? God forbid! Those people were educated.
How about any region where the literacy rate/average was above the 99% of illiteracy? Nah- god choose to use today’s version of Newark, New Jersey to record his alleged inspired word.
DNA coming into existence- “Statistically Impossible?” (Citation please) The only thing “statistically impossible” is me renewing my wedding vows with my ex wife.
Biological Evolution is a fact. Deal with it.
I too don’t care about the age of the Earth, but then again I don’t work for Exxon or Chevron.
@@twitherspoon8954 👏👏👏👏👏👏
@@twitherspoon8954 Baby you are my new hero! Keep pointing this out and I hope you don't mind if I take some of these excerpts as tools to keep the evangelist at bay. Anyways love you baby.
Dr. Ehrman is one of the top Bible scholars in the world today. I am amazed (but somehow not surprised) that Emma Thorne was able persuade him to appear on her show. Who's next? I'm half expecting the Pope at a future date.
The Pope offered to appear but Emma turned him down. She only speaks to actual experts.
Love your content. Dr. Erhman again! I'd be thrilled too. Emma, you are a rose, and I hope you continue to be a "thorn" in people like Kent Hovind. I'm a recent subscriber, having just found you last year. I do have to ask..."Do you have a magic carpet?"
Keep up your great content. It is really important, personal belief in a Christian or Islamic or Jewish or whatever interpretation of god is fine, but belief it is absolute and therefore gives such groups the right to dictate laws is dangerous. And this danger is growing, as is the threat to democracy. Morality is secular
"Personal belief in a whatever interpretation of God is fine"..
I'm glad we have your permission...
"Morality is secular"..
Your "secular morality" has led to the wanton slaughter of over 60 Million innocent defenseless young humans sent to early graves for convenience in the USA alone since 1973.....
@@josephthinn3900 There seems to be some misunderstanding. A fetus isn't a child. Hope that cleared things up!
@Al Gore Rhythm I don't know of any Born Again Members of God's Eternal Kingdom in Spirit and in Truth (Christians) who think Abortion should remain legal .
If you find one let me know...
@@j.c.5528 "A fetus isn't a child"..
Maybe we should let the "fetus" live and not murder it and let them decide for themselves whether they want to commit suicide or not?
Or have you appointed yourself judge jury and executioner?
@@josephthinn3900 Hey, do you know about the trial of bitter waters?
A thing encouraged by god? Which its intended purpose is to cause a miscarrage of a woman who cheated?
I also appreciated Emma's subconscious 'prayer hands' when saying thankyou. 😆 Old Christian habits die hard!
Pardon me for a technical correction, but shouldn't that be "Old religious rituals and conditioning die hard". Just for overall accuracy really. Maybe you were doing the same thing by inserting "Christian" into what is a universal experience? Only a thought, please forgive my interruption
This is one of the best videos I've ever seen, and I haven't even watched it.
Word
@John Darwin when I was a whipper snapper you said a dramatic "word" usually with a few subtle nods when something profound was said. I'm jumping on the facetious bandwagon I guess.
n the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Alif, Lam, Meem.
2. Allah, there is no god but He, the Living, the Eternal.
3. He sent down to you the Book with the Truth, confirming what came before it; and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel.
4. Aforetime, as guidance for mankind; and He sent down the Criterion. Those who have rejected Allah’s signs will have a severe punishment. Allah is Mighty, Able to take revenge.
5. Nothing is hidden from Allah, on earth or in the heaven.
6. It is He who forms you in the wombs as He wills. There is no god except He, the Almighty, the Wise.
29. Say, “Whether you conceal what is in your hearts, or disclose it, Allah knows it.” He knows everything in the heavens and the earth. Allah is Powerful over everything.
30. On the Day when every soul finds all the good it has done presented. And as for the evil it has done, it will wish there were a great distance between them. Allah cautions you of Himself. Allah is Kind towards the servants.
31. Say, “If you love Allah, then follow me, and Allah will love you, and will forgive you your sins.” Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
32. Say, “Obey Allah and the Messenger.” But if they turn away-Allah does not love the faithless.
33. Allah chose Adam, and Noah, and the family of Abraham, and the family of Imran, over all mankind.
34. Offspring one of the other. Allah is Hearer and Knower.
35. The wife of Imran said, “My Lord, I have vowed to You what is in my womb, dedicated, so accept from me; You are the Hearer and Knower.”
36. And when she delivered her, she said, “My Lord, I have delivered a female,” and Allah was well aware of what she has delivered, “and the male is not like the female, and I have named her Mary, and have commended her and her descendants to Your protection, from Satan the outcast.”
37. Her Lord accepted her with a gracious reception, and brought her a beautiful upbringing, and entrusted her to the care of Zechariah. Whenever Zechariah entered upon her in the sanctuary, he found her with provision. He said, “O Mary, where did you get this from?” She said, “It is from Allah; Allah provides to whom He wills without reckoning.”
38. Thereupon Zechariah prayed to his Lord; he said, “My Lord, bestow on me good offspring from Your presence; You are the Hearer of Prayers.”
39. Then the angels called out to him, as he stood praying in the sanctuary: “Allah gives you good news of John; confirming a Word from Allah, and honorable, and moral, and a prophet; one of the upright.”
40. He said, “My Lord, how will I have a son, when old age has overtaken me, and my wife is barren?” He said, “Even so, Allah does whatever He wills.”
41. He said, “My Lord, give me a sign.” He said, “Your sign is that you shall not speak to the people for three days, except by gestures. And remember your Lord much, and praise in the evening and the morning.”
42. The angels said, “O Mary, Allah has chosen you, and has purified you. He has chosen you over all the women of the world.
43. “O Mary, be devoted to your Lord, and bow down, and kneel with those who kneel.”
44. These are accounts from the Unseen, which We reveal to you. You were not with them when they cast their lots as to which of them would take charge of Mary; nor were you with them as they quarreled.
45. The Angels said, “O Mary, Allah gives you good news of a Word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, well-esteemed in this world and the next, and one of the nearest.
46. He will speak to the people from the crib, and in adulthood, and will be one of the righteous.”
47. She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child, when no man has touched me?” He said, “It will be so. Allah creates whatever He wills. To have anything done, He only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is.”
48. And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel.
49. A messenger to the Children of Israel: “I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you out of clay the figure of a bird; then I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah’s leave. And I heal the blind and the leprous, and I revive the dead, by Allah’s leave. And I inform you concerning what you eat, and what you store in your homes. In that is a sign for you, if you are believers.”
50. “And verifying what lies before me of the Torah, and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; so fear Allah, and obey me.”
51. “Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.”
52. When Jesus sensed disbelief on their part, he said, “Who are my allies towards Allah?” The disciples said, “We are Allah’s allies; we have believed in Allah, and bear witness that we submit.”
53. “Our Lord, we have believed in what You have revealed, and we have followed the Messenger, so count us among the witnesses.”
54. They planned, and Allah planned; but Allah is the Best of planners.
55. Allah said, “O Jesus, I am terminating your life, and raising you to Me, and clearing you of those who disbelieve. And I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return; then I will judge between you regarding what you were disputing.
56. As for those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe punishment, in this world and the next, and they will have no helpers.
57. And as for those who believe and do good works, He will give them their rewards in full. Allah does not love the unjust.”
58. This is what We recite to you of the Verses and the Wise Reminder.
59. The likeness of Jesus in Allah’s sight is that of Adam: He created him from dust, then said to him, “Be,” and he was.
60. The truth is from your Lord, so do not be of those who doubt.
It's so good to hear Academics talk about the Bible rather than Apologetics. Apologetic training and degrees seem a lot like training to be a Used Cars Salesman.
In casual conversation with a friend I recently said, out loud. "Citation needed" in response to some BS claim. That's right Emma, you're in my head deflecting misinformation like a little atheist angel.
Fun fact: If you had said instead "citation fucking needed," it would have been Godless Engineer that was in your head.
80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
81. They profess obedience, but when they leave your presence, some of them conspire something contrary to what you said. But Allah writes down what they conspire. So avoid them, and put your trust in Allah. Allah is Guardian enough.
82. Do they not ponder the Quran? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would have found in it much discrepancy.
83. When some news of security or alarm comes their way, they broadcast it. But had they referred it to the Messenger, and to those in authority among them, those who can draw conclusions from it would have comprehended it. Were it not for Allah’s blessing and mercy upon you, you would have followed the Devil, except for a few.
84. So fight in the cause of Allah; you are responsible only for yourself. And rouse the believers. Perhaps Allah will restrain the might of those who disbelieve. Allah is Stronger in Might, and More Punishing.
85. Whoever intercedes for a good cause has a share in it, and whoever intercedes for an evil cause shares in its burdens. Allah keeps watch over everything.
86. When you are greeted with a greeting, respond with a better greeting, or return it. Allah keeps count of everything.
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us Allah plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of Allah’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, Allah has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. Allah is Mighty and Wise.
159. There is none from the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
61. He is a portent of the Hour, so have no doubt about it, and follow Me. This is a straight way.
62. And let not Satan divert you. He is an open enemy to you.
63. When Jesus came with the clarifications, he said, “I have come to you with wisdom, and to clarify for you some of what you differ about. So fear Allah, and obey me.
64. Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him-this is a straight path.”
65. But the factions differed among themselves. So woe to the wrongdoers from the suffering of a painful Day.
66. Are they only waiting for the Hour to come upon them suddenly, while they are unaware?
67. On that Day, friends will be enemies of one another, except for the righteous.
68. O My servants, you have nothing to fear on that Day, nor will you grieve.
69. Those who believed in Our revelations, and were submissive.
70. Enter the Garden, you and your spouses, Joyfully.
71. They will be served around with trays of gold, and cups. Therein is whatever the souls desire and delights the eyes. Therein you will stay forever.
72. Such is the Garden you are made to inherit, because of what you used to do.
73. Therein you will have abundant fruit, from which you eat.
74. As for the sinners, they will be in the torment of Hell forever.
75. It will never be eased for them. In it, they will be devastated.
76. We did them no injustice, but it was they who were the unjust.
77. And they will cry, “O Malek, let your Lord finish us off.” He will say, “You are staying.”
78. We have given you the truth, but most of you hate the truth.
79. Have they contrived some scheme? We too are contriving.
80. Or do they think that We cannot hear their secrets and their conspiracies? Yes indeed, Our messengers are by them, writing down.
81. Say, “If the Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship.”
82. Glorified be the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne, beyond what they describe.
83. So leave them to blunder and play, until they encounter their Day which they are promised.
84. It is He who is Allah in heaven, and Allah on earth. He is the Wise, the Knower.
85. And blessed is He Who has sovereignty over the heavens and the earth and what is between them. He alone has knowledge of the Hour, and to Him you will be returned.
86. Those they invoke besides Him are incapable of intercession; only those who testify to the truth and have knowledge.
87. And if you asked them, “Who created them?”, they would say, “Allah.” Why then do they deviate?
88. As for his statement: “My Lord, these are a people who do not believe.”
89. Pardon them, and say, “Peace.” They will come to know.
Many years ago, I worked with a devout Christian who was otherwise technically competent (we worked in IT) and intelligent. One day, the resurrection came up in conversation and I guffawed over the fact that Jesus was not recognised. He sharply retorted that I should not denigrate his beliefs. And this is how people cope with the contradictions and risible stories of the Bible, they actively avoid how laughable religion can be. Or, they argue these things should not be taken literally, in which case I argue, you might as well use the Peter Pan corpus as your moral prop.
One of the things that always gets me is that so much of what Christians claim happened is not backed up by secular documents. Surely someone who wasn't from Judea saw the Sermon on the Mount . . .why wouldn't that have been recorded somewhere? I seem to remember that in one of the Gospels (John, I think -- PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong), the author recorded that as Jesus' death drew nigh, the skies over Jerusalem darkened as if night had fallen. Don't you think THAT would have made the news? Wouldn't some visitor from another kingdom or province have recorded it? Was this event SO miraculous that it couldn't be seen from out of town?
It just don't make sense to nobody. Someone please 'splain it to me.
@@johndemeritt3460 I agree. The Romans wrote their histories. Roman scholars, educated people were all over the empire. No one wrote ANY of this down? Hard to believe. Something like this would have shown up in Roman writings, Greek writings.............
@@johndemeritt3460 I had to look it up - it's actually recorded in the three other Gospels besides John, haha.
More notable in my mind is Matthew 27:53 and the many dead folks who came back to life at the time of Jesus's death.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens.
Well, if you "guffawed", maybe you deserved a rebuff. Is that an intelligent way to show disagreement?
Atheist greetings from Oregon 🌲
I'm excited too. But, as an ex-Christian, I have heard all the arguments that have been made regarding the defense of, for example, of the "inerrancy" of the Bible, or the ressurection. So, what exactly is Mike going to talk about that's different. It is very interesting that Ehrman is going to bring in more of his views for this. That's the real interesting part of this. No one is going to "win" this debate. As we all know, once humans decide on something "they believe," it's very difficult for them (me, all of us) to change our basic beliefs. I always hope that people, like me, are willing to entertain the possibility that some of their basic beliefs might be wrong - and so they need to change their ways of thinking, but those hopes have been dashed many more times than they have come to fruition for me.
There's more dead religions than living ones.
As a former Evangelical, may I add my voice to yours? I've struggled with push back like Emma's because of unwillingness to swing from "all in" to "nothing at all". The classic atheist position includes certainty that God or gods do not exist.. even though IMPOSSIBLE to prove. In the exciting moment of claiming victory of science over Fundamentalism, it's often forgotten that human nature is a valid proof of something. The entire history of our species includes the ability to believe there may be more to life, than what can be measured or explained with cold hard facts. Adopting a position that all spiritual beliefs are both impossible and foolish are as dangerously dogmatic as a Christian Supremacy is. If part of my brain chooses to enjoy belief that Oden, Thor, Freya and Valhalla exist, my DNA permits it. We evolved to have this capacity, a scientific fact. It's even adopted in the English language as days if the week! Insisting you own the only valid belief system that is compatible with science is wrong if human nature is ignored.
@@tomclayton9881 You're point?
@@gregedmand9939 I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to, but I do not like some of the atheist culture that goes after believers and enjoys "taking them down," and "making fun of them." Most believers are not like Kent Hovind. Kindness goes a long way in relationships. Making fun of people and "calling them out," seems to be fun for some atheists. But disarming someone's treasured belief system for fun and amusement, is not the right way to help people move forward to consider that their ideas about reality might be incorrect. Friendship and kindness will go a lot further.The vociferous nature of some atheists on line hurts all atheists in them attempting to relate to society.
@@kencreten7308 my point was obvious and it's 'your'*
Not related to this but was awesome to hear you on GAM!
Truly a wonderful movie for you to have joined them on. 🤣
Wonderful stuff. I'm a great fan of Dr Ehrman and own 3 of his books. Just registered for the debate. Can't wait! Flaxen Saxon
153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us Allah plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of Allah’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, Allah has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. Allah is Mighty and Wise.
159. There is none from the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.
Wait…does this mean that after Jesus died, some random person claimed to be Jesus raised from the dead and just spent time with Jesus’ followers convincing them…?
Ooh, I never thought about it like that before. That's an interesting angle lol 🤔 now that I think about it, that's what it sounds like to me
@@elibella5660 So... you don't believe.
Bart has definitely made a difference in my life for the better.. Love the show!
153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us Allah plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of Allah’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, Allah has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. Allah is Mighty and Wise.
159. There is none from the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.
The ridiculous thing is people actually discuss if the resurrection is plausable or not. The answer is of course it isn't. The problem is people have cherished beliefs and they can't let go.
Some other things that were implausible - flight, supersonic travel, landing on the moon, a computer/ communication device in your pocket, a cure for x disease - - -
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
28. How can you deny Allah, when you were dead and He gave you life, then He will put you to death, then He will bring you to life, then to Him you will be returned?
29. It is He who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the heaven, and made them seven heavens. And He is aware of all things.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “He is Allah, the One.
2. Allah, the Absolute.
3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. And there is none comparable to Him.”
@@abdulali8738
What the Qu'ran actually says is Allah is gracious and merciful but only if you do what he says. If you don't do what he says then he will punish you after you are dead, very severely and will show no mercy.
111. And say, “Praise be to Allah, who has not begotten a son, nor has He a partner in sovereignty, nor has He an ally out of weakness, and glorify Him constantly.”
@@stephenlawrence4821 111. And say, “Praise be to Allah, who has not begotten a son, nor has He a partner in sovereignty, nor has He an ally out of weakness, and glorify Him constantly.”
I can’t wait to see the Bart vs Mike debate!
Recently found your videos and have enjoyed watching a lot of your content, which is amusing and insightful. Some reaction channels I've seen in opposition of various positions or world views tend to be somewhat negative exclusively (despite doing good in attempting to challenge misleading/exploitation of others) and that can get a little draining to watch but most of your responses are pitched at a very even level between serious and otherwise. Plus, you've got videos like this which are actually very unique, positive and educational at the same time. Subbed.
80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
81. They profess obedience, but when they leave your presence, some of them conspire something contrary to what you said. But Allah writes down what they conspire. So avoid them, and put your trust in Allah. Allah is Guardian enough.
82. Do they not ponder the Quran? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would have found in it much discrepancy.
83. When some news of security or alarm comes their way, they broadcast it. But had they referred it to the Messenger, and to those in authority among them, those who can draw conclusions from it would have comprehended it. Were it not for Allah’s blessing and mercy upon you, you would have followed the Devil, except for a few.
84. So fight in the cause of Allah; you are responsible only for yourself. And rouse the believers. Perhaps Allah will restrain the might of those who disbelieve. Allah is Stronger in Might, and More Punishing.
85. Whoever intercedes for a good cause has a share in it, and whoever intercedes for an evil cause shares in its burdens. Allah keeps watch over everything.
86. When you are greeted with a greeting, respond with a better greeting, or return it. Allah keeps count of everything.
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us Allah plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of Allah’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, Allah has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. Allah is Mighty and Wise.
159. There is none from the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.
That's a bit of a stretch, saying if the resurrection could be proven, that would validate everything else in the Bible. Particularly given Bart's knowledge of how the Bible was written. Genesis alone, had multiple authors. But I certainly wouldn't put it passed people to try. They already make up stuff, like the rapture, that has spurious foundations.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens.
...
lol, yeah - how would it validate the parts that directly contradict each other?
@@Gamefan86 - Yes, the Christians did appropriate the sun worshiper's birth date for their Sun god to serve as the birthdate for their Son god. And Christianity was bastardized even further here, there and everywhere to promote conversions to their religion.
But any attention to trivia such as this, just serves to distract everyone from Jesus' core message of how we should all treat each other, with love and respect.
Bart's efforts to refute the Jesus narrative (full of holes as it may be) also serves to dissuade some from paying any mind to Jesus' messages. Probably unintentional, but there, nonetheless.
Was he deity? Impossible to prove either way, as we puny apelike humans are at the bottom of the totem pole. We lack the necessary high-level perspective needed to make that determination.
But we do have his teachings, the bread of life. Even without the spiritual implications, following his lessons lead us to a more psychologically mature lifestyle. And that's a good thing.
153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us Allah plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of Allah’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, Allah has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. Allah is Mighty and Wise.
159. There is none from the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
61. He is a portent of the Hour, so have no doubt about it, and follow Me. This is a straight way.
62. And let not Satan divert you. He is an open enemy to you.
63. When Jesus came with the clarifications, he said, “I have come to you with wisdom, and to clarify for you some of what you differ about. So fear Allah, and obey me.
64. Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him-this is a straight path.”
65. But the factions differed among themselves. So woe to the wrongdoers from the suffering of a painful Day.
66. Are they only waiting for the Hour to come upon them suddenly, while they are unaware?
67. On that Day, friends will be enemies of one another, except for the righteous.
68. O My servants, you have nothing to fear on that Day, nor will you grieve.
69. Those who believed in Our revelations, and were submissive.
70. Enter the Garden, you and your spouses, Joyfully.
71. They will be served around with trays of gold, and cups. Therein is whatever the souls desire and delights the eyes. Therein you will stay forever.
72. Such is the Garden you are made to inherit, because of what you used to do.
73. Therein you will have abundant fruit, from which you eat.
74. As for the sinners, they will be in the torment of Hell forever.
75. It will never be eased for them. In it, they will be devastated.
76. We did them no injustice, but it was they who were the unjust.
77. And they will cry, “O Malek, let your Lord finish us off.” He will say, “You are staying.”
78. We have given you the truth, but most of you hate the truth.
79. Have they contrived some scheme? We too are contriving.
80. Or do they think that We cannot hear their secrets and their conspiracies? Yes indeed, Our messengers are by them, writing down.
81. Say, “If the Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship.”
82. Glorified be the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne, beyond what they describe.
83. So leave them to blunder and play, until they encounter their Day which they are promised.
84. It is He who is Allah in heaven, and Allah on earth. He is the Wise, the Knower.
85. And blessed is He Who has sovereignty over the heavens and the earth and what is between them. He alone has knowledge of the Hour, and to Him you will be returned.
86. Those they invoke besides Him are incapable of intercession; only those who testify to the truth and have knowledge.
87. And if you asked them, “Who created them?”, they would say, “Allah.” Why then do they deviate?
88. As for his statement: “My Lord, these are a people who do not believe.”
89. Pardon them, and say, “Peace.” They will come to know.
@@abdulali8738 bro what are your trying to accomplish?
@@bigcheese7492
42. The angels said, “O Mary, God has chosen you, and has purified you. He has chosen you over all the women of the world.
43. “O Mary, be devoted to your Lord, and bow down, and kneel with those who kneel.”
44. These are accounts from the Unseen, which We reveal to you. You were not with them when they cast their lots as to which of them would take charge of Mary; nor were you with them as they quarreled.
45. The Angels said, “O Mary, God gives you good news of a Word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, well-esteemed in this world and the next, and one of the nearest.
46. He will speak to the people from the crib, and in adulthood, and will be one of the righteous.”
47. She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child, when no man has touched me?” He said, “It will be so. God creates whatever He wills. To have anything done, He only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is.”
48. And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel.
49. A messenger to the Children of Israel: “I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you out of clay the figure of a bird; then I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God’s leave. And I heal the blind and the leprous, and I revive the dead, by God’s leave. And I inform you concerning what you eat, and what you store in your homes. In that is a sign for you, if you are believers.”
50. “And verifying what lies before me of the Torah, and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; so fear God, and obey me.”
51. “God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.”
52. When Jesus sensed disbelief on their part, he said, “Who are my allies towards God?” The disciples said, “We are God’s allies; we have believed in God, and bear witness that we submit.”
53. “Our Lord, we have believed in what You have revealed, and we have followed the Messenger, so count us among the witnesses.”
54. They planned, and God planned; but God is the Best of planners.
55. God said, “O Jesus, I am terminating your life, and raising you to Me, and clearing you of those who disbelieve. And I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return; then I will judge between you regarding what you were disputing.
56. As for those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe punishment, in this world and the next, and they will have no helpers.
57. And as for those who believe and do good works, He will give them their rewards in full. God does not love the unjust.”
58. This is what We recite to you of the Verses and the Wise Reminder.
59. The likeness of Jesus in God’s sight is that of Adam: He created him from dust, then said to him, “Be,” and he was.
60. The truth is from your Lord, so do not be of those who doubt.
61. And if anyone disputes with you about him, after the knowledge that has come to you, say, “Come, let us call our children and your children, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves, and let us invoke God’s curse on the liars.”
62. This is the narrative of truth: there is no god but God. God is the Mighty, the Wise.
63. But if they turn away-God knows the corrupt.
64. Say, “O People of the Book, come to terms common between us and you: that we worship none but God, and that we associate nothing with Him, and that none of us takes others as lords besides God.” And if they turn away, say, “Bear witness that we have submitted.”
65. O People of the Book! Why do you argue about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed until after him? Will you not reason?
66. Here you are-you argue about things you know, but why do you argue about things you do not know? God knows, and you do not know.
67. Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a Monotheist, a Muslim. And he was not of the Polytheists.
68. The people most deserving of Abraham are those who followed him, and this prophet, and those who believe. God is the Guardian of the believers.
69. A party of the People of the Book would love to lead you astray, but they only lead themselves astray, and they do not realize it.
70. O People of the Book! Why do you reject the revelations of God, even as you witness?
71. O People of the Book! Why do you confound the truth with falsehood, and knowingly conceal the truth?
72. Some of the People of the Book say, “Believe in what was revealed to the believers at the beginning of the day, and reject it at its end, so that they may return.”
73. And trust none except those who follow your religion.” Say, “Guidance is God’s guidance. If someone is given the like of what you were given, or they argue with you before your Lord, say, “All grace is in God’s hand; He gives it to whomever He wills.” God is Bounteous and Knowing.
74. He specifies His mercy for whomever He wills. God is Possessor of Sublime Grace.
75. Among the People of the Book is he, who, if you entrust him with a heap of gold, he will give it back to you. And among them is he, who, if you entrust him with a single coin, he will not give it back to you, unless you keep after him. That is because they say, “We are under no obligation towards the gentiles.” They tell lies about God, and they know it.
76. Indeed, whoever fulfills his commitments and maintains piety-God loves the pious.
77. Those who exchange the covenant of God, and their vows, for a small price, will have no share in the Hereafter, and God will not speak to them, nor will He look at them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. They will have a painful punishment.
78. And among them are those who twist the Scripture with their tongues, that you may think it from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture. And they say, “It is from God,” when it is not from God. They tell lies and attribute them to God, knowingly.
79. No person to whom God has given the Scripture, and wisdom, and prophethood would ever say to the people, “Be my worshipers rather than God’s.” Rather, “Be people of the Lord, according to the Scripture you teach, and the teachings you learn.”
80. Nor would he command you to take the angels and the prophets as lords. Would he command you to infidelity after you have submitted?
81. God received the covenant of the prophets, “Inasmuch as I have given you of scripture and wisdom; should a messenger come to you verifying what you have, you shall believe in him, and support him.” He said, “Do you affirm My covenant and take it upon yourselves?” They said, “We affirm it.” He said, “Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses.”
82. Whoever turns away after that-these are the deceitful.
83. Do they desire other than the religion of God, when to Him has submitted everything in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him they will be returned?
84. Say, “We believe in God, and in what was revealed to us; and in what was revealed to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses, and Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we submit.”
85. Whoever seeks other than Islam as a religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers.
86. How will God guide a people who disbelieved after having believed, and had witnessed that the Messenger is true, and the clear proofs had come to them? God does not guide the unjust people.
87. Those-their penalty is that upon them falls the curse of God, and of the angels, and of all mankind.
88. Remaining in it eternally, without their punishment being eased from them, and without being reprieved.
89. Except those who repent afterwards, and reform; for God is Forgiving and Merciful.
90. As for those who disbelieve after having believed, then plunge deeper into disbelief, their repentance will not be accepted; these are the lost.
91. As for those who disbelieve and die disbelievers, even the earth full of gold would not be accepted from any of them, were he to offer it for ransom. These will have a painful torment, and will have no saviors.
Read The Quran
@@bigcheese7492
47. O you who were given the Book! Believe in what We sent down, confirming what you have, before We obliterate faces and turn them inside out, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers. The command of God is always done.
48. God does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives anything less than that to whomever He wills. Whoever associates anything with God has devised a monstrous sin.
49. Have you not considered those who claim purity for themselves? Rather, God purifies whom He wills, and they will not be wronged a whit.
50. See how they devise lies against God. That alone is an outright sin.
51. Have you not considered those who were given a share of the Book? They believe in superstition and evil powers, and say of those who disbelieve, “These are better guided on the way than the believers.”
52. Those are they whom God has cursed. Whomever God curses, you will find no savior for him.
53. Or do they own a share of the kingdom? Then they would not give people a speck.
54. Or do they envy the people for what God has given them of His grace? We have given the family of Abraham the Book and wisdom, and We have given them a great kingdom.
55. Among them are those who believed in it, and among them are those who held back from it. Hell is a sufficient Inferno.
56. Those who reject Our revelations-We will scorch them in a Fire. Every time their skins are cooked, We will replace them with other skins, so they will experience the suffering. God is Most Powerful, Most Wise.
57. As for those who believe and do good deeds, We will admit them into Gardens beneath which rivers flow, abiding therein forever. They will have purified spouses therein, and We will admit them into a shady shade.
58. God instructs you to give back things entrusted to you to their owners. And when you judge between people, judge with justice. God’s instructions to you are excellent. God is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
Man, if my church had come at me with this reasonable of an argument about belief vs. fact I might not have deconverted.
Same. During the scary phase of unsettled during my deconversion I discovered Bart Ehrman on RUclips. I watched his debates and was fascinated and waited for an apologist to make a blow ... Never happened. I watched many debates and not a single Christian scholar or pastor was able to make a reasonable argument. Not one. They dance around, agree but it's not a big deal because of x, or they attack his character or why saying that is benefiting Muslims etc. My deconversion went forward full steam as it was apparent it was illogical to believe
Funny, because that's what turned me off Christianity (as a kid). Basically the argument in my childhood's religious education was "this book gives all the rules and all the truths necessary for life, but, uuuh, all this completely, obviously ridiculous stuff we decided we kinda ignore now. Or see as metaphorical. Or it's just vaguely there and possibly has some meaning but certainly not to be taken literally". Which to me effectively translated to "okay, so it's rubbish but we cherry pick what we like and dismiss the rest, and on top of that, not even all Christians agree on what the cherries actually are, and they are changing all the time, and their interpretations too. This clearly does not fit with an all-knowing all-powerful being in charge of this. What's even the point of this book and religion then?"
I actually do think that a stubborn insistence on complete literal truth would have been more convincing to me. Luckily, nobody around me was into that, so all good. Grew up sane.
153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us Allah plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of Allah’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, Allah has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. Allah is Mighty and Wise.
159. There is none from the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.
@@Sp4mMe Well the question then is do youJesus meant only cheese makers or is it metaphorical and can be extended to the makers of any dairy products?
@@matthewkopp2391 I don't know; let's brutally murder each other for a few centuries over whether it's cheese-only or all-dairy products or (extremist opinion) applies to any and all food to find out what God intended.
Ok, I adore the stance he holds here. I genuinely didn't realize there were Christians who thought the ressurection story was myth and not literal. I also have never made the connection between proving a literal ressurection story and thereby proving by proxy that everything else in that book that causes significant harm to others is equally accurate and enforceable.
Fantastic video!!
Proving by proxy is such a real thing. I grew up in the South (in the US if you aren't here) and a good majority holds this idea. This is why you see so many deconstruction stories of people working through Religious Trauma. These pastors and church goers use the bible to justify their shitty actions towards others and cling heavily to "the resurrection happened!" because otherwise, they know they will have to be accountable personally for their actions. Also the fact that deconstruction completely destroys your worldview foundations, so people would rather keep believing a lie (and that's not aimed specifically at Christianity, that's just in general) than rework their thought processes.
@@katherinesmith1849 I am in the South as well, Florida in particular. It's been a few years since being in church, but Biblical inerrancy was pushed more than proof by proxy so it just wasn't a thing even on my radar until watching this but it makes so much sense! I deconstructed a while ago but the ressurection always seemed so wildly unbelievable to me that it was one of the first things I deconstructed. I am definitely using this stance though, in future, when getting dragged into conversations about it!
"I didn't realize there were Christians who thought the resurrection story was myth"..
I have never met a Born Again Child of God's Eternal Kingdom in Spirit and in Truth (Christian) who doesn't believe that Jesus raised himself from the Dead Just like he said he would!
Just like i have never met a Theistic Evolutionist (Oval-Earther) who is a Fellow Born Again Child of God's Eternal Kingdom in Spirit and in Truth as Jesus commanded his followers to do...
Don't believe me? Ask them YOURSELF!
"Verily verily I say unto you except one be born again of the spirit they cannot see the kingdom of God" Jesus of Nazareth
@@josephthinn3900 I am not at all sure what you were attempting to say with that heaping portion of word salad, but having deconstructed down to atheism, I am going to go ahead and just offer a hard pass on what you're selling there, bud.
@@bangsandbullets I guess that is what you have decided.. God won't force you to love him and seek him in spirit and in truth... Forced love is meaningless love anyway.. Apparently God didn't want robotic beings going around saying "I love you Lord" anymore than we would like forcing a dog or cat to let us hold them and love them against their will..
Best Wishes! J B
"Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled Atheist"
Richard Dawkins
Great and thoughtful video as always Emma. Noticed that Sly Cooper cane in the back 🙏 absolute legend.
n the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Alif, Lam, Meem.
2. Allah, there is no god but He, the Living, the Eternal.
3. He sent down to you the Book with the Truth, confirming what came before it; and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel.
4. Aforetime, as guidance for mankind; and He sent down the Criterion. Those who have rejected Allah’s signs will have a severe punishment. Allah is Mighty, Able to take revenge.
5. Nothing is hidden from Allah, on earth or in the heaven.
6. It is He who forms you in the wombs as He wills. There is no god except He, the Almighty, the Wise.
29. Say, “Whether you conceal what is in your hearts, or disclose it, Allah knows it.” He knows everything in the heavens and the earth. Allah is Powerful over everything.
30. On the Day when every soul finds all the good it has done presented. And as for the evil it has done, it will wish there were a great distance between them. Allah cautions you of Himself. Allah is Kind towards the servants.
31. Say, “If you love Allah, then follow me, and Allah will love you, and will forgive you your sins.” Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
32. Say, “Obey Allah and the Messenger.” But if they turn away-Allah does not love the faithless.
33. Allah chose Adam, and Noah, and the family of Abraham, and the family of Imran, over all mankind.
34. Offspring one of the other. Allah is Hearer and Knower.
35. The wife of Imran said, “My Lord, I have vowed to You what is in my womb, dedicated, so accept from me; You are the Hearer and Knower.”
36. And when she delivered her, she said, “My Lord, I have delivered a female,” and Allah was well aware of what she has delivered, “and the male is not like the female, and I have named her Mary, and have commended her and her descendants to Your protection, from Satan the outcast.”
37. Her Lord accepted her with a gracious reception, and brought her a beautiful upbringing, and entrusted her to the care of Zechariah. Whenever Zechariah entered upon her in the sanctuary, he found her with provision. He said, “O Mary, where did you get this from?” She said, “It is from Allah; Allah provides to whom He wills without reckoning.”
38. Thereupon Zechariah prayed to his Lord; he said, “My Lord, bestow on me good offspring from Your presence; You are the Hearer of Prayers.”
39. Then the angels called out to him, as he stood praying in the sanctuary: “Allah gives you good news of John; confirming a Word from Allah, and honorable, and moral, and a prophet; one of the upright.”
40. He said, “My Lord, how will I have a son, when old age has overtaken me, and my wife is barren?” He said, “Even so, Allah does whatever He wills.”
41. He said, “My Lord, give me a sign.” He said, “Your sign is that you shall not speak to the people for three days, except by gestures. And remember your Lord much, and praise in the evening and the morning.”
42. The angels said, “O Mary, Allah has chosen you, and has purified you. He has chosen you over all the women of the world.
43. “O Mary, be devoted to your Lord, and bow down, and kneel with those who kneel.”
44. These are accounts from the Unseen, which We reveal to you. You were not with them when they cast their lots as to which of them would take charge of Mary; nor were you with them as they quarreled.
45. The Angels said, “O Mary, Allah gives you good news of a Word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, well-esteemed in this world and the next, and one of the nearest.
46. He will speak to the people from the crib, and in adulthood, and will be one of the righteous.”
47. She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child, when no man has touched me?” He said, “It will be so. Allah creates whatever He wills. To have anything done, He only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is.”
48. And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel.
49. A messenger to the Children of Israel: “I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you out of clay the figure of a bird; then I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah’s leave. And I heal the blind and the leprous, and I revive the dead, by Allah’s leave. And I inform you concerning what you eat, and what you store in your homes. In that is a sign for you, if you are believers.”
50. “And verifying what lies before me of the Torah, and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; so fear Allah, and obey me.”
51. “Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.”
52. When Jesus sensed disbelief on their part, he said, “Who are my allies towards Allah?” The disciples said, “We are Allah’s allies; we have believed in Allah, and bear witness that we submit.”
53. “Our Lord, we have believed in what You have revealed, and we have followed the Messenger, so count us among the witnesses.”
54. They planned, and Allah planned; but Allah is the Best of planners.
55. Allah said, “O Jesus, I am terminating your life, and raising you to Me, and clearing you of those who disbelieve. And I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return; then I will judge between you regarding what you were disputing.
56. As for those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe punishment, in this world and the next, and they will have no helpers.
57. And as for those who believe and do good works, He will give them their rewards in full. Allah does not love the unjust.”
58. This is what We recite to you of the Verses and the Wise Reminder.
59. The likeness of Jesus in Allah’s sight is that of Adam: He created him from dust, then said to him, “Be,” and he was.
60. The truth is from your Lord, so do not be of those who doubt.
I could listen to Emma read the phone book and it would be the most beautiful story I ever heard.
I agree she has a wonderful voice 🤬
I personally don't believe in the Bible but I do think it is interesting from an anthropological perspective.
Oh yes, it's a very fascinating book worth studying. Just not for basing one's life on, haha.
Proof he was raised from the dead sounds like he was proving he had been dead...not that he was back
Emma, love your content! I like the approach you take with Christianity. You're confronting the dangerous people within the religion. These people have to be called out and you're doing an awesome job at doing that. Plus, Dr. Bart is a great guest!
Most christians are dangerous in their beliefs !
I've seen a few of her programmes, where are the credible people - academically or in terms of ability to debate, etc that she has confronted? I must have missed all of them in the tide of negative and one sided comments to camera
@@hj925 Let’s be honest. You’re not going to be happy with anyone she brings on regardless of their credentials. You’ve made your mind up already.
@@al5306 I have genuinely tested out all the multiple lines of attack, thousands over 50 years and I've struggled sometimes and, of course it ultimately does come down to faith, but real though it is, tested though it has been, I would be a fool to say that I would dismiss any genuine evidence - but I just haven't seen anything convincing yet, not unquestionably convincing and on balance the historical and logical cohesion of the message is far more convincing than the skeptics would willingly credit, but then, in my very wide experience, they'd not be speaking with more knowledge than the fake believers. I appreciate the hurt people have had from religious people and the influence of the age on how we all think, I'd day that I've actually been hurt and damaged far more by "christians" than most of the complainers, thankfully not sexually, but I don't focus on them any more than I have to . I would say that wouldn't I, that is what you will think as say this, but it wouldn't be true of me.
But by all means point out any programmes when she has genuinely "confronted" anyone worth confronting - I'm just not seeing any
I was wondering why the algorithm got to recommending you. I like the intersection between queerness and Bart Ehrman. Didn't think I'd get that! Definitely subscribing.
66.6K subscribers now muahaha :) love your content, I'm so glad you came up on my feed!
68.7k now 6 days later...
350 a day...
pity she isn't thinking of an IPO...
I'd like someone to ask for proof in the following sense: Why can't we have the same threshold of proof as Doubting Thomas? He was one of the twelve who was skeptical about the ID of Jesus until he was shown an touched Jesus wounds. Why don't the rest of us get to see and touch if someone who knew Jesus for a couple of years had to have proof. Check out 20th chapter of John.
153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us Allah plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of Allah’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, Allah has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. Allah is Mighty and Wise.
159. There is none from the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.
@@abdulali8738 would be nice if you could post something meaningful, if you’re even a real person and not a bot.
The Romans were famous record keepers and kept a close watch on minority groups, such as Christians. If such an event on the scale of an executed man coming back to life had happened, they would probably have been aware of it. Yet, there are NO independent Roman records. Also, we are told that 500 people watched his Ascension and yet, again, as far as I am aware, there is no report in contemporary text. (And please, please don't quote the Bible at me as proof of the Bible).
I agree. Plus, it cannot be a coincidence that Jesus would share a LOT of similarities with other mythical beings that have been around for centuries past: walking on water, healing the sick, having 12 disciples, and dying on a cross (that last one made me question why a cross out of all things).
Totally in agreement with you.
Jesus was invented by Greek scholars in Rome. Jesus did and said nothing. A hoax.
87. Allah-there is no god except He. He will gather you to the Day of Resurrection, in which there is no doubt. And who speaks more truly than Allah?
80. Whoever obeys the Messenger is obeying Allah. And whoever turns away-We did not send you as a watcher over them.
61. He is a portent of the Hour, so have no doubt about it, and follow Me. This is a straight way.
62. And let not Satan divert you. He is an open enemy to you.
63. When Jesus came with the clarifications, he said, “I have come to you with wisdom, and to clarify for you some of what you differ about. So fear Allah, and obey me.
64. Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him-this is a straight path.”
65. But the factions differed among themselves. So woe to the wrongdoers from the suffering of a painful Day.
66. Are they only waiting for the Hour to come upon them suddenly, while they are unaware?
67. On that Day, friends will be enemies of one another, except for the righteous.
68. O My servants, you have nothing to fear on that Day, nor will you grieve.
69. Those who believed in Our revelations, and were submissive.
70. Enter the Garden, you and your spouses, Joyfully.
71. They will be served around with trays of gold, and cups. Therein is whatever the souls desire and delights the eyes. Therein you will stay forever.
72. Such is the Garden you are made to inherit, because of what you used to do.
73. Therein you will have abundant fruit, from which you eat.
74. As for the sinners, they will be in the torment of Hell forever.
75. It will never be eased for them. In it, they will be devastated.
76. We did them no injustice, but it was they who were the unjust.
77. And they will cry, “O Malek, let your Lord finish us off.” He will say, “You are staying.”
78. We have given you the truth, but most of you hate the truth.
79. Have they contrived some scheme? We too are contriving.
80. Or do they think that We cannot hear their secrets and their conspiracies? Yes indeed, Our messengers are by them, writing down.
81. Say, “If the Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship.”
82. Glorified be the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne, beyond what they describe.
83. So leave them to blunder and play, until they encounter their Day which they are promised.
84. It is He who is Allah in heaven, and Allah on earth. He is the Wise, the Knower.
85. And blessed is He Who has sovereignty over the heavens and the earth and what is between them. He alone has knowledge of the Hour, and to Him you will be returned.
86. Those they invoke besides Him are incapable of intercession; only those who testify to the truth and have knowledge.
87. And if you asked them, “Who created them?”, they would say, “Allah.” Why then do they deviate?
88. As for his statement: “My Lord, these are a people who do not believe.”
89. Pardon them, and say, “Peace.” They will come to know.
@@abdulali8738 I asked the people out there not to quote the Bible at me to prove the Bible. It's a circular route that has no ending and gets us nowhere. Therefore it is NOT truth, just mere conjecture and opinion. And yet, here you are quoting the Koran at me to prove the Koran!! What on earth is wrong with you, man? Get a life and work things out for yourself.
Remember Mohamed was an ignorant merchant who could not read or write. He is supposed to have remembered all that stuff and later managed to have it written down. He had a six year old wife, for god's sake. Even if what he says makes sense at least I have to give Him the praise for being able to think for himself. Remember, because you believe it, does not make it true. Take religion out of your equation and ask yourself what contributions you personally are making towards the benefits of mankind and even your own life. What are YOU doing with your life?
Looking forward to such an in-depth debate. I would love to hear them discuss possible medical reasons for a person's "resurrection." Maybe bring in real-world documented cases of people seeming to be dead but turns out, nope!
Swoon theory (the idea that Jesus didn't "actually" die on the cross) is pretty contentious... For one, Romans historically made a good effort to ensure their victims were truly dead after their crucifixion.
However, to me the most dubious aspect of swoon theory is that it unnecessarily concedes that the disciples did in fact see Jesus alive after he apparently died.
There are only two firsthand accounts of seeing a risen Jesus, both of which align well with a grief/trauma hallucination. All others can pretty easily be explained as legendary development. Taking those claims of a post-crucifixion Jesus at their word is a HUGE concession that isn't historically warranted.
@@isaacstevens1912
_"There are only two firsthand accounts of seeing a risen Jesus..."_
Name a single person who witnessed Jesus.
As far as I'm aware, the only person to have claimed to have witnessed Jesus is Paul.
Paul claimed that Jesus appeared to him in a vision as a bright light.
None of the Gospel authors witnessed Jesus.
@@twitherspoon8954 Well, firsthand claim from Paul, secondhand claim from Peter in Acts. I said "accounts," not "verified history."
@@isaacstevens1912
The Jesus story began in 48 AD with the first of the Pauline Epistles (which comprise nearly half of the New Testament books) when Paul realized the Daniel 9:25 prophesy of a messiah failed to fulfill on time, so he made one up decades after the date for the prophesied fulfillment but he set the story decades in the past to make the prophesy seem true.
The fulfillment of the Daniel 9:25 prophecy written in 538 BC was the test of the true messiah. By 48 AD it was known that the prophecy of a messiah coming in "seven weeks and threescore and two weeks" had not occurred on the prophesied date. "Seven weeks and threescore and two weeks" is, 7 plus 60 plus 2 equals 69 total weeks. One prophetic week equals seven years, so 7 times 69 equals 483 total years beginning with the decree given to Ezra by Artaxerxes I in 458 BC.
Paul made up the entire Jesus story and added historical figures, locations, and events to add authenticity.
Paul's goal was to garner support for the war against the Romans.
He created the fiction of having witnessed the risen messiah (literal son of God).
He wanted to show that the messiah had come as prophesied but was murdered by the Romans. This was to entice the Gentiles to aid in the Jews' war against the Romans.
Instead, he created one of the world's most popular religions that is based on the literal worship of ritual human sacrifice, rape, and cannibalism.
The Gospel authors copied, and embellished, Paul's fiction.
None of the Gospel authors, or any other writers, were witnesses to the Bible figure known as Jesus.
@@twitherspoon8954
You just wrote one hell of a fiction story yourself, with regard to, so many assumptions of Paul.
Well, considering that no one less than Paul of Tarsus said that Christianity would be a waste of time without the resurrection, I think it's pretty crucial that in order for Christianity to be Christianity, it has to include in a physical resurrection, especially since Bart Ehrman just said that that's what the original Christians understood, and the Christianity itself would almost certainly not have spread like it did without that belief.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
28. How can you deny Allah, when you were dead and He gave you life, then He will put you to death, then He will bring you to life, then to Him you will be returned?
29. It is He who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the heaven, and made them seven heavens. And He is aware of all things.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “He is Allah, the One.
2. Allah, the Absolute.
3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. And there is none comparable to Him.”
@@abdulali8738 Who is Allah?
1. In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
2. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds.
3. The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
5. It is You we worship, and upon You we call for help.
6. Guide us to the straight path.
7. The path of those You have blessed, not of those against whom there is anger, nor of those who are misguided.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Alif, Lam, Meem.
2. Allah, there is no god but He, the Living, the Eternal.
3. He sent down to you the Book with the Truth, confirming what came before it; and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel.
4. Aforetime, as guidance for mankind; and He sent down the Criterion. Those who have rejected Allah’s signs will have a severe punishment. Allah is Mighty, Able to take revenge.
5. Nothing is hidden from Allah, on earth or in the heaven.
6. It is He who forms you in the wombs as He wills. There is no god except He, the Almighty, the Wise.
You should link the debate in the community tab when it happens.
I will for sure forget to check in.
Thanks - I love watching your videos, and really love Bart Ehrman - and I'm a full time Christian Minister! Obviously I have some disagreements - I believe the resurrection actually happened - but as Bart implies, I certainly cannot prove it empirically.
Why do you believe it happened, given that it's impossible?
@@vooveks guess it must be based on faith. The only evidence would be testimony, and that’s obviously not empirical, so I can’t say I have proof.
@@ndenyer Surely that must bother you, no? I’m not trying to wind you up, honestly, but I just don’t get how that can sit right with anyone; believing something with no evidence whatsoever. Do you believe in lots of other supernatural phenomena too? Is there anything of that type that sounds ridiculous and unbelievable to you? Would you believe a story now of someone coming back from the dead?
@@vooveks as I hope I implied, I see a bit of evidence, just nothing I could put to you as proof. And no, I don’t really believe in other phenomena - never seen a ghost, for example. Nor do I believe in young Earth, global floods, or many other OT stories. But I believe they are indicative of the Nature of God (in whom I clearly do believe). I’m more certain that much in the NT is historical; I certainly believe Jesus existed, as did his followers, and that his core message of “Love God, Love everyone else” is a good basis for life. And if you don’t believe in God, just love everyone else! Which I guess means if I’m wrong, I’m not hurting anyone by loving God, and hopefully doing good by loving everyone else.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens.
If the resurrection was true,Pontius Philate,the Roman soldiers,The High Priests and all those at Golgotha during the crucification will be rushing to Jesus to seek for forgiveness for Jesus's crucification!!!😁😁😁😁🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Or they'd probably just try again and make sure it was done properly this time.
@@simongiles9749 ,😁😁😁😁🤣🤣🤣🤣🤪🤪👍👍👍👍👍
Always thought it was pretty odd: 500 people saw Jesus afterward when all it would have taken was Pilate or Ciaphus as witnesses. Hell, he should have gone to Rome and peed in Tiberius’ fountain.
Christianity is a cult of human sacrifice whose only significant advance is that instead of making periodic sacrifices, it fetishizes one single human sacrifice and reenacts it over and over again, imbuing it with a unique connection to a vengeful but somehow loving creator. Each reenactment establishes a close and deep connection between the reenactors and the deity. Human sacrifice was never very common, but there’s no reason to believe that the practitioners of such religions were just primitive, bloodthirsty mobs. They were undoubtably as profoundly moved by their ceremonies of sacrifice as Christians are. I have no way of knowing if they fetishized actual suffering the way Christians do; I doubt it; Christianity is a deeply sadomasochistic belief system.
Its very toxic I have a missionary in my family and a distant aunt that's a nun. It can actually pull you away from God the more they keep pushing their beliefs on you. Some of them also hide behind their faith to commit crimes.
I think it's less about being in favour of human suffering and more about being afraid of death. For example, the Christian obsession with restricting people's sexuality is probably because it reminds people that we're animals and therefore mortal.
_"Christianity is a cult of human sacrifice..."_
Correct.
I condemn ritual human sacrifice, rape, and cannibalism; Christians literally worship them.
Ritual Human Sacrifice-
God sent one of his sons to be tortured and killed as a human sacrifice (a practice adopted from Paganism)-
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son."
1 John 4:10
"This is love; not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins."
Romans 8:32
"He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all."
1 Corinthians 5:7
"Christ our passover is sacrificed for us."
Romans 3:25
"God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement."
Philippians 2:8
"Christ was humble. He obeyed God and even died on a cross."
Galatians 1:4
"Christ obeyed God our Father and gave himself as a sacrifice for our sins to rescue us from this evil world."
Romans 5:8
"But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners."
Hebrews 10:10
"We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
~~~~~~~~~~~
Rape-
God raped ("overshadowed") Mary while she was engaged to Joseph and while God was married to Asherah, Aholah and Aholibah (who were sisters). God's sons also "ravished" human females and impregnated them.
God sent one of his representatives to tell Mary, that even though she was engaged to Joseph and frightened by the encounter, that God would impregnate her.
The Bible uses the word "overshadow", which is the Greek word, "επισκιάζω" (episkiazó). Some Christians interpret "overshadow" to mean that some sort of mystical cloud or divine wind hovered over Mary and then she became pregnant. But the literal translation of the word is, "to overshadow, to use influence upon by a looming presence (skiá)" and figuratively means "to invest with preternatural (extraordinary, exceeding what is normal) influence". So, the "overshadowing" was God using what the Bible describes as the "extraordinary" coercion of his greater power and status to dominate and overpower Mary's desires and will by forcing his own desire to force unwanted sexual contact from frightened Mary with the intent of impregnating her.
The word Mary uses to accept the command to be impregnated is "ginomai", which means "let it not be, far be it from, God forbid".
In Mary's praise and thanksgiving to God in Luke 1:48 she says, “God has lifted up his humble maidservant.” The Greek word for “humble” is the same one that the Septuagint (the old Greek version of the Hebrew Bible) uses to describe the rape of Dinah in Genesis and other incidents of sexual violation.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Cannibalism is an integral part of Christianity-
John 6:53
"Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever gnaws my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a difficult and harsh and offensive statement. Who can accept it?" From this time, many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him."
This is applying a modern secular view as if it's somehow impartial and as if Christians(and "similar" practitioners?) stand out from other people throughout the centuries.
Heck, Gnosticism rose up in early Christianity partly because some people of the time picked up on the contrast between God from teachings of Jesus and God of the Torah.
Best not draw conclusions on a superficial analysis of a broad religion when its history is so multifaceted.
Well, Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism, and Judaism is a religion of a people sandwiched between two civilization powerhouses, Ashur-Babylon in the North and Egypt in the South. Powerless and bullied by their neighbours, their belief system was created to cope with that, so this life is not the 'real' life, but a kind of trial for the good one, and suffering in this life meant joy in the next one- Christians just expanded and codified the concept further.
Just was listening to G-d awful movies and you were on it as a guest!!!! Totally made my day
Commenting for the algorithm. I'll be missing the debate, so just wanna make sure I feed the algorithm for algorithms sake.
I think how compelling you find the story depends on if you accept the existence of the supernatural or not. If somebody tells me they saw a tiger in the woods I think how much I believe him depends on how much I believe tigers exist in the area he says he was in. If he was in Siberia I'd give it more Credence than if he was in New York City.
Well even if you could prove that Jesus rose from the dead that would improve anything he said was correct. I'm always confused by Christians who say because Jesus rose from the dead therefore homosexuality is wrong. I'm a little bit lost as to what the connecting link is
I guess if the resurrection is true then what the bible says about homosexuality is right, though in my opinion I think this is a bit of a leap
@@mr.bootleg646 even the most conservative Christians don't usually accept everything the Bible says. But yeah, it's a leap. It's just them excusing their own bigotry
@@thenomad9230 agreed, personally as far as I can tell the only reason Christian’s are against same sex marriage is because the bible says so and that’s about it.
You are my new favorite content creator. Keep up the good work!
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
28. How can you deny Allah, when you were dead and He gave you life, then He will put you to death, then He will bring you to life, then to Him you will be returned?
29. It is He who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the heaven, and made them seven heavens. And He is aware of all things.
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “He is Allah, the One.
2. Allah, the Absolute.
3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. And there is none comparable to Him.”
@@abdulali8738 you people are insufferable. Why would you choose my comment, literally just praising a content creator, when others have raised questions and concerns? Pray to allah to do something to me good or bad. Because I'm sure nothing will happen even though I'll say "allah can fuck off even if you are real you can touch grass". Shouldn't I get punished? I won't because A. Allah isn't real. Or B. You have no fucking clue what allah wants and says. Or C. BOTH A AND B. I'm going with C
n the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Alif, Lam, Meem.
2. Allah, there is no god but He, the Living, the Eternal.
3. He sent down to you the Book with the Truth, confirming what came before it; and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel.
4. Aforetime, as guidance for mankind; and He sent down the Criterion. Those who have rejected Allah’s signs will have a severe punishment. Allah is Mighty, Able to take revenge.
5. Nothing is hidden from Allah, on earth or in the heaven.
6. It is He who forms you in the wombs as He wills. There is no god except He, the Almighty, the Wise.
29. Say, “Whether you conceal what is in your hearts, or disclose it, Allah knows it.” He knows everything in the heavens and the earth. Allah is Powerful over everything.
30. On the Day when every soul finds all the good it has done presented. And as for the evil it has done, it will wish there were a great distance between them. Allah cautions you of Himself. Allah is Kind towards the servants.
31. Say, “If you love Allah, then follow me, and Allah will love you, and will forgive you your sins.” Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
32. Say, “Obey Allah and the Messenger.” But if they turn away-Allah does not love the faithless.
33. Allah chose Adam, and Noah, and the family of Abraham, and the family of Imran, over all mankind.
34. Offspring one of the other. Allah is Hearer and Knower.
35. The wife of Imran said, “My Lord, I have vowed to You what is in my womb, dedicated, so accept from me; You are the Hearer and Knower.”
36. And when she delivered her, she said, “My Lord, I have delivered a female,” and Allah was well aware of what she has delivered, “and the male is not like the female, and I have named her Mary, and have commended her and her descendants to Your protection, from Satan the outcast.”
37. Her Lord accepted her with a gracious reception, and brought her a beautiful upbringing, and entrusted her to the care of Zechariah. Whenever Zechariah entered upon her in the sanctuary, he found her with provision. He said, “O Mary, where did you get this from?” She said, “It is from Allah; Allah provides to whom He wills without reckoning.”
38. Thereupon Zechariah prayed to his Lord; he said, “My Lord, bestow on me good offspring from Your presence; You are the Hearer of Prayers.”
39. Then the angels called out to him, as he stood praying in the sanctuary: “Allah gives you good news of John; confirming a Word from Allah, and honorable, and moral, and a prophet; one of the upright.”
40. He said, “My Lord, how will I have a son, when old age has overtaken me, and my wife is barren?” He said, “Even so, Allah does whatever He wills.”
41. He said, “My Lord, give me a sign.” He said, “Your sign is that you shall not speak to the people for three days, except by gestures. And remember your Lord much, and praise in the evening and the morning.”
42. The angels said, “O Mary, Allah has chosen you, and has purified you. He has chosen you over all the women of the world.
43. “O Mary, be devoted to your Lord, and bow down, and kneel with those who kneel.”
44. These are accounts from the Unseen, which We reveal to you. You were not with them when they cast their lots as to which of them would take charge of Mary; nor were you with them as they quarreled.
45. The Angels said, “O Mary, Allah gives you good news of a Word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, well-esteemed in this world and the next, and one of the nearest.
46. He will speak to the people from the crib, and in adulthood, and will be one of the righteous.”
47. She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child, when no man has touched me?” He said, “It will be so. Allah creates whatever He wills. To have anything done, He only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is.”
48. And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel.
49. A messenger to the Children of Israel: “I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you out of clay the figure of a bird; then I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah’s leave. And I heal the blind and the leprous, and I revive the dead, by Allah’s leave. And I inform you concerning what you eat, and what you store in your homes. In that is a sign for you, if you are believers.”
50. “And verifying what lies before me of the Torah, and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; so fear Allah, and obey me.”
51. “Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.”
52. When Jesus sensed disbelief on their part, he said, “Who are my allies towards Allah?” The disciples said, “We are Allah’s allies; we have believed in Allah, and bear witness that we submit.”
53. “Our Lord, we have believed in what You have revealed, and we have followed the Messenger, so count us among the witnesses.”
54. They planned, and Allah planned; but Allah is the Best of planners.
55. Allah said, “O Jesus, I am terminating your life, and raising you to Me, and clearing you of those who disbelieve. And I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return; then I will judge between you regarding what you were disputing.
56. As for those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe punishment, in this world and the next, and they will have no helpers.
57. And as for those who believe and do good works, He will give them their rewards in full. Allah does not love the unjust.”
58. This is what We recite to you of the Verses and the Wise Reminder.
59. The likeness of Jesus in Allah’s sight is that of Adam: He created him from dust, then said to him, “Be,” and he was.
60. The truth is from your Lord, so do not be of those who doubt.
I hope they address the fundamental question:
Do we follow the shoe or the gourd?
Splitters!
Some scholars say the resurrection never happened. In fact, Bishop John Shelby Spong says believers should not look to Jesus as a "rescuer," but the best example how to live fully, love wastefully, and be all one can be, atter the example of Jesus." (From Spong's book, Why Christianity Must Change Or Die)
Wed., 3/30/2022. 5:13pm DST
I’m a Christian by culture. I’m an atheist with facts. I love my Christian friends, but they are wrong with facts.
I think Christian by culture is crap and a cop out, your either in or out
We can't even prove Jesus' existence, much less that he became a zombie. 🧟
@@reins981 Do you realize how ironic that statement is?
@@reins981 Proving the bible with the bible is absurd. The bible is a book of fairy tales with no historic accuracy at all. Get educated.
@@reins981 You don't seem to understand what proof means. None of the stories in the bible are supported by extra biblical sources, many are even contradicted by actual history and of cause by science and logic. There was no Adam & Eve, Noah or Moses.
Jesus is a fictional character.
I used to be in the camp of he was a real person that a legend grew around. Over the years I have started leaning into thinking he was a fictional character.
@@DaveCM
There is literally no contemporaneous evidence Jesus existed.
None of the Gospel writers witnessed Jesus.
It really is astonishing people believe such nonsense.
According to the Bible, a star appeared in the sky leading to the birthplace of the prophesied messiah;
Jesus was recognized at birth as the prophesied messiah;
A "multitude" of angels came down from heaven and told "everyone" that god was born and "everyone heard it";
Distinguished foreigners (maji) traveled to bear the infant god gifts, guided by a star;
King Herod killed all the male infants in the region in order to eliminate the baby god;
Jesus traveled the region for thirty years; his fame “went throughout all Syria” and he and his entourage were followed by “great multitudes”;
Jesus performed 36 miracles, including calming a storm, walking on water and through walls, and raising three people from the dead;
Whichever city Jesus went to, everyone who touched his clothes were healed, including the blind and the paralyzed;
He was tried by the Sanhedrin High Court, the High Priest, Roman governor Pontius Pilate, and King Herod Antipas;
Jesus had a very public execution from which he later became undead and his corpse disappeared from a secured tomb;
After Jesus became undead, he made 12 appearances to more than 500 persons;
After his resurrection, all of the graves opened and the corpses rose out and walked into town and "appeared to many".
Yet, there was no contemporaneous memorialization and/or corroboration of any of that, in any way.
In the entire first century Jesus is not mentioned by a single historian, religion scholar, politician, philosopher, or poet. His name never occurs in a single inscription, carving, sculpture or monument, and it is never found in a single piece of private correspondence or official record.
The only Bible author who claimed to have met Jesus described him only as a bright light. None of the Gospel writers were witnesses to Jesus. Jesus himself left no archaeological evidence of any kind, such as artifacts, tombs, dwellings, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts.
Wouldn't you think if a baby was recognized as God at birth, and met dignitaries, and this God was walking around town for thirty years, performing 36 miracles and raising the dead, and was publicly executed and then his body disappeared from a secure tomb, and then the graves opened and the corpses rose out and walked into town, and the sun went dark for three hours, that someone at the time would have noticed and memorialized it in some way?
@@twitherspoon8954 From a biblical account Jesus can be said to be entirely fictional however it can still be inferred through how multifaceted early Christianity was (no single canon) and the historicity of Paul that someone named "Jesus" is at least likely to have at least existed as opposed to a total fictional forgery from mostly independent authors.
@@NewNecro
_"...and the historicity of Paul that someone named "Jesus" is at least likely to have at least existed..."_
The Jesus story began in 48 AD with the first of the Pauline Epistles (which comprise nearly half of the New Testament books) when Paul realized the Daniel 9:25 prophesy of a messiah failed to fulfill on time, so he made one up decades after the date for the prophesied fulfillment but he set the story decades in the past to make the prophesy seem true.
The fulfillment of the Daniel 9:25 prophecy written in 538 BC was the test of the true messiah. By 48 AD it was known that the prophecy of a messiah coming in "seven weeks and threescore and two weeks" had not occurred on the prophesied date. "Seven weeks and threescore and two weeks" is, 7 plus 60 plus 2 equals 69 total weeks. One prophetic week equals seven years, so 7 times 69 equals 483 total years beginning with the decree given to Ezra by Artaxerxes I in 458 BC.
Paul made up the entire Jesus story and added historical figures, locations, and events to add authenticity.
Paul's goal was to garner support for the war against the Romans.
He created the fiction of having witnessed the risen messiah (literal son of God).
He wanted to show that the messiah had come as prophesied but was murdered by the Romans. This was to entice the Gentiles to aid in the Jews' war against the Romans.
Instead, he created one of the world's most popular religions that is based on the literal worship of ritual human sacrifice, rape, and cannibalism.
The Gospel authors copied, and embellished, Paul's fiction.
None of the Gospel authors, or any other writers, were witnesses to the Bible figure known as Jesus.
There was never any Jesus to begin with.
Wrong. He did exist. Whether or not he was divine is the debate. Religion vs history.
There is absolutely zero historical evidence that Jesus ever existed. There is not even one contempory writing about Jesus in the local languages (Aramaic & Hebrew) by any of the thousands that supposedly saw or heard about Jesus - even Biblical scholars do not claim any. The earliest independent historical writings about Jesus, by Josephus & Tacitus (in Greek & Latin) are from 90+ & 100+ AD respectively = more than 60-70 years after Jesus supposedly died and were based solely on hearsay (stories going around) and not any good evidence like eyewitness testimonies etc.
Agreed, Christianity is founded on the belief of Jesus' resurrection. The trouble is, as Bart has elsewhere concluded, that started the religion about Jesus, it only peripherally included some of Jesus' religion of the Fatherhood of God, and the siblinghood of all people.
somehow i always miss new uploads,,,
just activated the bell
fixed, haha
nice video btw ^^ love it
Kudos on a great interview - fantastic content.
Sadly Dr. Ehrman's debate is in the middle of the night for me.
The central problem is that a written narrative of a physically impossible event is simply not history. Such a narrative admits several interpretations:
a) The author was misinformed.
b) The author was delusional.
c) The author was lying.
d) The author was (for whatever reason) trying to make the narrative incredible.
e) The narrative was at some point mistranscribed or mistranslated
f) Some combination of all or some of the above.
g) The event occurred as described.
If we look at the balance of probabilities, option g is infinitely less likely than options a-f - and will always remain so until the events described are shown to be physically possible.
If G then the biggest problem is no one else in the whole world noticed or recorded the event
For me it's very simple. It's entirely plausible to believe that, during his lifetime (if he existed), Jesus was "off the radar" of contemporary historians and that his existence was therefore not recorded by non-Christian and contemporary sources. If he actually existed it is not surprising his existence was not noted in contemporary Roman histories.
However, the events surrounding his crucifixion are so astonishing and so public that they could not possibly have gone unnoted at the time, even if not associated with his death by the general population of Jerusalem and Roman historians of the time.
1. An earthquake that opened graves
2. The bodies of hundreds of the dead arising from the Earth and walking through Jerusalem
3. A solar eclipse
That there is ZERO contemporary historical record of these 3 major, even literally earth shattering events, casts doubt on the veracity of the most important, even defining, story in the Bible, the Resurrection. Without the Resurrection there *is* no Christianity. Without the Resurrection there is no need for Christ the Savior.
On a different subject - Personally, I find the evidence for the existence of Jesus to be very thin. Richard Carrier covers this subject very well and I recommend his books and videos to anyone who wants to hear another view from a scholar who is also, like Ehrman, not a Christian. Unlike Ehrman, who earned his doctorate at a theological seminary, Carrier earned his doctorate in ancient history at Columbia University. So he comes to the issue from the attitude of a historian of the period, rather than from a theological perspective. Since the issue is whether Jesus was a real, historical person, this avenue of approach is a more suitable one than the theological approach.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens.
@@Gamefan86 I attended a local Lutheran church and I was able to have a conversation with the senior pastor of the church during our Christmas fundraising event. I asked him if Jesus was really born on Christmas day, December 25th, and he replied No. He went on to explain that the church just dedicated December 25th to Jesus because he was the first son of God; first sun became first son. Thinking back to this conversation, I believe that my pastor was quite honest about how Christmas came to be.
The man named Yeshua, the man named John who's performing baptism, the event of Jesus' baptism, his crucifixion, martyr of his brother James by public lynching for blasphemy of Jesus' resurrection are all historic facts amd are recorded in non biblical non christian historical sources....
@@kalords5967 "first sun became first son"
Of course, the "son" and "sun" are only homonyms in English. They aren't in Greek, Latin, Hebrew or Aramaic. So that convenient bit is only coincidental.
@@laique8797 "...are all historic facts amd are recorded in non biblical non christian historical sources"
Please provide sources. This will be earth shattering news to people like Dr. Bart Ehrman and many other non-Christian biblical scholars who have spent their entire careers investigating this stuff.
Dr. Ehrman has an odd understanding of “belief”. I’d like to see him define it more precisely. It seems to be something along the lines of “a belief is something that you think is true but not with demonstrable certainty”. This seems wrong. “Belief” is what philosophers call “a propositional attitude”. Propositions are distinct from questions, commands, requests, etc in that they can be true or false, and they can be so as their function is to represent the way things are. To believe a proposition is simply to have the psychological attitude that it it is true (so it is redundant to say “I believe that P is true” since “is true” is already implied by belief). There is nothing about this that says you can’t believe something like “the square root of 9 is 3”. It’s uninteresting, since anyone who already understands what “square root” means will take it to be obvious. More interestingly, they’re going to say something like “of course, we all know that”. That raises the question: what is knowledge? The most common understanding is that it is true belief that has sufficient warrant (leaving aside for the moment what counts as warrant, let alone what counts as sufficient). On Dr. Ehrman’s definition of belief and this definition of knowledge, you can’t know that the square root of 9 is 3, since you can’t believe that the square root of 9 is 3. Something is seriously wrong here, and I think it’s this understanding of belief.
Dr. Ehrman is a very good biblical scholar but certainly is not an epistemologist. My point here may seem pedantic, but a good analytic epistemologist would rake him over the coals for his lack of precision.
Your word play still doesn't answer the question of how a human being can come back to life after physical death
@@tonycaine5930 I'm not trying to answer that question. In fact, I don't think it can. I'm not disagreeing with Dr Ehrman on that point. I just don't think making the argument he's trying to make about the nature of belief is philosophically sound
I kind of wondered why the Disciples didn't recognize Jesus after resurrecting. You'd think he'd look familiar!
If we take a sip of sobriety to wash away the religious mindset, I think it's perfectly clear that it is impossible to say that the resurrections of Jesus can be proved.
In order to show someone has been resurrected you will _first_ have to establish that this person has existed in the first place, and Jesus doesn't even meet _that_ criterion.
Exactly. In my view, Ehrman has still not freed himself from his Stockholm syndrome on this issue, but he is on the right track.
@@YuitoScarlet
None of them have provided evidence though.
@@YuitoScarlet
We have lots of evidence for the existence of certain people existing at that time and even longer ago. We have _none_ for Jesus. Zero. Zilch.
That's just how it is.
@@YuitoScarlet
What "recorded event" are you talking about? We only have the Gospels, religious pamphlets written down by unknown authors decades after the events supposedly happened.
@@YuitoScarlet
None of them written by contemporaries of Christ.
Sheesh, are you planning planning to prattle all of the apologetics about Christ that have been debunked a zillion times over?
I'm just truly baffled by the fact that people follow religion. I thought my family was the norm. Neither my maternal nor paternal relatives practised religion. So, I wasn't exposed to it until much later.
It just seems so daft!
Well I can't speak for everyone but I find the evidence for Christianity rather convincing.
@@austinapologetics2023 wow. I have a ocean front property in Kansas I'd love to sell you. You can see both the Atlantic and Pacific. I'll even throw in the U.S.S. Constitution for free, if you're into sailing.
@@tod1way hardy har har. Tell me, have you ever looked into the evidence for Christianity? And before you say something like "lol, what evidence". There is evidence, everything has evidence. The idea that the Earth is flat has evidence. It's just the quality of evidence which comes into question. The evidence that the Earth is flat is pretty bad so we reject that notion. I'm asking what is your opinion on the quality of evidence we have?
@@austinapologetics2023 why would I waste my life on that? It would be as pointless as trying to look for evidence of witches.
Reality is much more interesting.
@@austinapologetics2023
_"...but I find the evidence for Christianity rather convincing."_
LOL
Provide evidence Jesus existed.
You can see the evolution of lies when you read the Gospels closely. For example, having Jesus eat and Thomas putting his finger in the hole was intended to combat those who claimed he rose as a Spirit. Clearly made up stories 📖
Unfortunately there's no evidence of this. The first writings that said Jesus was a ghost come from the second century. And all of the gospels were written in the first century, even according to scholars like Dr. Ehrman here. They're also doesn't seem to be a progression of lies, every gospel and writer believes in a physical resurrection. If you read 1st Corinthians 15:3-5 then you'll see Paul pass on an early Creed that dates back within a few years after jesus' death that contains a physical Resurrection.
@@austinapologetics2023 Paul also said it is sown a natural body and raised a spiritual body. The lies are there also because of the Gnostics and others who say he was a ghost. Even the Gospels say he walked through the door. Nice try though
@@chainedmindsasylum The word used for "natural" in 1 Corinthians 15:44 is only used one other time, in 1 Corinthians 2:14, and it isn't used to describe a physical body but to contrast those who live with sinful desires to those who don't. The Greek word Psuchikos refers to humans living in their natural state as opposed to what God wants
Dr. Mike Licona has recorded 846 uses of the word Psuchikos from the 8th century B.C. to the third century A.D. and has yet to find a single use of it referring to the physical or material.
The Greek word for spiritual, pneumatikos, can mean something that is immaterial. But pneumatikos has many different meanings. Paul uses the word 12 times outside of 1 Corinthians, and it only means immaterial once (Eph 6:12). Elsewhere Paul uses it to mean spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12:1), maturity (Gal 6:1), wisdom (1 Cor 2:13), blessings (1 Cor 9:11), food (1 Cor 10:3-4), songs (Rom 5:19), law (Rom 7:17), understanding (Col 1:9). Because pneumatikos has such a wide variety of meanings and because it is being contrasted with Psuchikos, which means spiritual unenlightenment, then we should conclude that pneumatikos is being used to refer to spiritual enlightenment.
@@austinapologetics2023 Flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God. You misunderstand the entire passage in 1 Corinthians 15. Read it all the way through and think about what he is saying.
He's clearly saying that the new body is different, "The last Adam became a life giving spirit". He even explains the "mystery" of how the living will be changed in "the twinkling of an eye" aka a transformation of the physical body.
You have to sit down and block out every preconceived notion you have and read Paul's thought processes all the way through chapter 15 as he tries to explain his view on this topic. You must follow the perfect thoughts he is expressing in imperfect language to understand it.
The old saying about the forest and the trees applies here.
You have a choice here, you can either seek the truth or seek to protect a book 📖 that you feel has to be infallible. God is real but that book 📖 is written by men and it contains confusion and errors. Sorry if you can't handle that simple truth but that's the way it is.
It's not a magical book 📖 🧙💫
@@austinapologetics2023 I see you removed your apologetic response about flesh and blood being a "term". You're not ready to hear the truth about the Matrix religion you are caught up in. You have to be committed to honesty first or you will never see it 📖
The argument doesn’t hold any water. Just like Jesus’s hands. 🥲
Much respect to Dr Ehrman but this feels like debating whether or not unicorns can truly fly.
OMG U HAVE A BENDY PLUSH!!!!!
Also I'm really excited for the debate :) It'll be epic
I don't have anything to say, I'm just making a comment for comment's sake. Thank you Emma
Id' love to hear his story on his conversion from Christian to atheist.
The simplest argument about the reports of the disciples "seeing" Jesus after he died is to go back what the ancients believed happened when a human died. According to the bible, the soul went into limbo and the earthly body went back to "dust to dust, ashes to ashes." So how was Jesus recognized if he no longer had his earthly body, only a soul?
Oh boy how proud we r of ourselves!
Not an audio expert but isn't the pop shield meant to go in front of the mic?
It is a pleasure to listen to Bart. Finally someone logical who doesn't believe in the resurrection. There is no arguing on the fact that this man died, and on the circumstances of his death. And the fact that he lived and died as a fellow Jew. If I am right he was buried in a cave, and then Miriam not his mother the 2nd one found the cave empty and concluded he was resurrected. Well people are not resurrected not yet anyway. According to the Jewish belief in "the end of days" everyone that ever died will be resurrected, but not one person and then the rest. Everyone together. There is a very simple and logical explanation to the empty cave- Not that stealing is positive in anyway of course it's not. But there was a type of thieves who were quite nasty, grave thieves. They were always worked in large groups. So wouldn't it be possible for a gang like this, to remove the rock stealing his body and get the hell out of there? Of course it's possible.
I would like to argue your facts. Fictional people can't die
@@DB-he6ng What do you mean? You think he wasn't real? Well if he wasn't real at all, than it means that over 2 billion people are wasting their time. But if he was real by Roman sources (I highly doubt the apostles) means he also lived all of his life as a Jew, died by Crucifixion in the age of 30/31, buried in a cave and that's it. If I said anything wrong or you want to clarify what do you mean please do.
@@eranshachar9954 You are saying if jesus wasn.t real people are wasting their time? I dont believe that. In actual fact; the story of jesus is way older than 2000 years. His birthday and deathday is on the solstice on purpose. Jesus is a personification of the sun. Fiction, but fiction can lead to good things. I personally learnt a lot from spider-man/star wars/ dukes of hazzard etc.
@@DB-he6ng Ohhh. Now it's more clear okay. I remember now there is a channel called Metatron. And if my memory has not forsaken me, he said that the Romans recognized Jesus as real. That he is actually was real, I hope I am not wrong. Anyway I go in an easier way, the way of Judaism. I am not religious but am a Jew. And I am listening to videos from an atheist channel because I love to learn, to expand my knowledge.
@@DB-he6ngyoure really quoting zeitgiest? What an idiot
How did I not find your channel sooner!? Automatic Sub!!!!!
Christian: " Jesus rose from the tomb."
Me: " Prove it then."
Christian: " The tomb was empty."
Boggles the mind what Christians consider evidence when it comes to "proving" their religion.
But one of the best ones I have been told.
Christian: " God is real."
Me: " Prove it."
Christian: " You being here proves God exist."
Me: " No, that proves my parents had sex."
Christian: " Well your grandparents prove God." Me: " no. That proves my grandparents had sex that resulted in my mother and father."
Christian: " Adam and Eve prove God exist."
Me: " Now prove Adam and Eve existed."
Christian: " You worship the devil and just want to sin."